January 5, 2024 • 30 mins
As we meander through the intricate pathways of artistry, poetry, and land stewardship, Arlene Kim Suda, Belinda Liu, and Omar Brownson uncover the profound synergy these realms share in steering life's grandest inquiries. Our conversation, rich with personal experiences like a recent trip to a sanctuary in Tijuana, spotlights the vitality of communal ties and the bravery entailed in embracing change.
Reminisce with us as we delve into heartfelt discourses about the indispensable roles of co-creation, the transformative power of saying "yes," and the journey toward aligning with our internal compasses.
This episode illuminates the often overlooked yet essential aspects of gratitude and the collective joy found in creative pursuits, all while challenging traditional paradigms that no longer serve our evolving society. As we navigate the delicate equilibrium of reminders, routines, and rewards, we celebrate the artists, poets, and land stewards—who are the custodians of memory and communion.
Here's to the recognition of our shared humanity, to seeing beauty in our joint imperfections, and to cherishing each moment of simply being human. Join us for this heartwarming toast to life, community, and the art of human connection!
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Create an intentional practice with your own Gratitude Blooming card deck, notecards, candle and much much more at our shop at www.gratitudeblooming.com.
Learn more about our co-hosts and special guest for Season 4:
Co-host Belinda Liu | Hestia Retreat Centers
Co-host Omar Brownson | Trickster's Guide to Immortality on Substack
Special Guest Dr. Paul Wang | The Dao Center
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star rating and review. Your feedback is valuable to us and helps us grow.
Share your thoughts and comments by emailing us at hello@gratitudeblooming.com. We love hearing from our listeners!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello Belinda.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey Omar, so excited for us to be together again with
Arlene in studio Hi Belinda andOmar.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Today's topic is what do an artist, a poet and a land
steward have to do with eachother?
And I love this question.
You know, arlene, our artist,belinda, our land steward, with
Hestia and now Big Island andvisions around the world, and me
(00:48):
with my poetic imagination,we've really been having a
behind the scenes conversationabout, like what calls us
together.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And this is a beautiful time of year to have
this conversation and hold thisquestion.
So many of us entering a newyear are in a more reflective
place, like what am I doing,what have I been doing and why
and where do I want to go?
And I love that a lot of thework around Grad 2 Blooming is
taking that intentional pause tobe with these questions that
(01:27):
don't have easy answers.
I think for me, the biggestquestion is just like how do I
evolve and how do I evolvetogether with others, and what
does nature have to say about it, and what can nature show us
about change and buildingcoherence and navigating
(01:51):
uncertainty, and so for me it'sbeen really like I don't think
these big questions of our timecan be answered in silos within
us.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I love the idea of co-creation, though it sounds
beautiful, but like it's alsojust in reality, it's a messy
process, and so, in that way,the question is why is Grad 2
Blooming, holding space for anartist, a poet and a land
steward coming?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
together when Arlene and I first were thinking about
Grad 2, blooming, like six,seven years ago, like what would
this space be?
We knew we didn't know theanswer, but it was a lot of
holding space for what values,virtues, are most important in
(02:43):
navigating the inner journey.
And even though we've donedifferent things externally, I
feel like it always kind of goesback to that question of like
how do we find our way togetherand having a really tangible
compass.
It's not about the roadmap,it's really more about how do
(03:07):
you know when you're on theright path that feels right and
aligned for you and then with us, I feel like it's been a
collective path of wayfindingand with a lot of checkpoints,
like are we feeling still likewe're all together hitting our
North Star?
So yeah, I think that that is areally important process to go
(03:31):
through and no one can tell youhow to do it except when you're
in the messiness of it, in thedark of it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I think a lot of the reason why I'm an artist is
because I spend a lot of time onmy own.
So to collaborate is actuallyvery energy consuming for me,
and you know.
So when I think about why it isthat I keep showing up for the
(04:02):
podcast, right like month aftermonth, it's because of the words
that I hear you to speak.
There was something Belindajust said you know earlier in
this conversation about.
You know why we need to be incommunity, creating together.
(04:22):
It's important, like things,unexpected things that wouldn't
happen when you're all justworking by yourself will happen
in community, even if being incommunity is can be hard.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Is there anything more specific beyond community
or co-creation, like those feellike very high ideals.
And you know, I think one ofthe things that I've been really
sitting with is like whatactually makes something very
real, though.
Right, you know, yesterday Iwas in Tijuana and delivering,
(05:01):
you know, bags of donatedclothes and blankets for a
sanctuary that is holdingliterally shelter and food and
love for 1600 migrants fromaround the world.
And you know, there's somethingvery real about like crossing a
(05:23):
border, like making a wrongturn in a place that then, all
of a sudden, like getting back,there's not an easy left turn
and then you end up drivinganother three miles in a
direction and then, likecoordinating with the local sort
of group to be like, hey, we'renow three miles from where we
said we were going to be acrossthe border.
(05:43):
How do we get back?
You know, how do we drive upthis like super.
This canyon was like the.
This migrant space has emergedout of a canyon that literally
had, 13 years ago, 500 pigsrunning around, and the pastor
was like being told like youneed to create a space here for
(06:05):
migrants.
He's like it smells.
I don't want to do this, youknow.
And so it's like what are wewilling to tolerate?
Because and he didn't even wantto create the space it was like
three people asked him to dothis before he finally said yes,
you know.
And so like what is your yes inthis space?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The three of us have had conversations offline, right
, about why we're doing the workthat we do, and I do think
where we intersect is that theworld is getting pretty dark out
there, right, the things it'slike we're having.
People are having a hard timejust talking to each other
civilly right Out in the world,and so, you know, when we talk
(06:47):
about creating a space to put alight, shine a light on human
values as opposed to, you know,more, just disagreements and
just the inability to have aconversation with each other,
then I'm like, yeah, this workis, it's foundational, this is
(07:07):
the most important work we canbe doing.
When I'm reminded that that'spart of what we're doing, then
I'm like, yes, I'm gonna show up.
I'll show up as long as, youknow, we're able to reach people
.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
What reminders do you need, Belinda?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think it goes back to what you said about how does
it, what does it take for thingsto feel real?
We've talked a lot about thepodcast, about behavior change,
rewards, reminders, things likethis, and I'm so I'm such an
Aquarius, I don't follow stepsvery well and if it's too
structured I kind of resist it.
(07:45):
That's kind of my resistance.
So for me it's like does whatI'm doing feel real in the world
, in my life, in a deep way?
And I think that's kind of thebeauty I see in the spaces that
we hold, especially in thepodcast, is how do you like be
(08:08):
with the discomfort of thestruggle, because so much of our
society, especially Westernsociety, is all about just
solving the problem and thenshowing what you did afterwards,
but like there were so manymoments where we could have just
been like define something,create something, make it
(08:31):
tangible, make it visible, so wefeel like we've created
something and then we feel like,oh, we're done.
And I think what I've reallyappreciated about our alchemy is
that's not enough for any of usto just like check off the box
and say we finished the job, andI think that's where I feel
(08:53):
like gratitude, blooming as alarger energy, is kind of
pushing us right, like therehave been times where I'm like
why is this so hard, like doingtraditional business things with
a product or with a podcast,like why is it not revealing
itself that it wants to be donein this way?
And I think gratitude bloomingconstantly is challenging each
(09:17):
of us to look for another way,because the current way is not
working and maybe it never had,but like the illusion of it
working, like has never been,you know, present for us, which
is why I think I appreciate uskind of leaning more into our
(09:37):
collective as an art experiment,because I think you know,
arlene, you speak to this a lotis artists don't have any
illusions around knowing theanswer, they're just fascinated
with the inquiry of it andmaking sure that this question
is actually relevant for thetimes.
(09:58):
You know, I feel like artistshistorically have been the
cultural pioneers.
I'm curious for you, omar,what's alive in all of these
questions and reflections?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's very easy to get weighted down by what is
happening or maybe not happeningin the world and centering on
joy and play.
And we know that, like there'sa spontaneity, there's a
curiosity, there's anon-attachment in some ways that
(10:33):
can come out of play.
It does not feel so life ordeath and I'm appreciating right
now.
You know, we say like the threehabits are reminders, routines,
rewards, right, and, and Ithink part of what's happening
(10:55):
right now is that we're used toreminders through notifications
and streaks, right, like I'm bigon Duolingo right now so I can
learn Spanish, and the amount ofenergy that they have created
in the game design to remind meto play, to practice every day
is they put a lot of it's aprobably it's a billion dollar
(11:17):
company to try to just remind meto practice Spanish every day.
But I also feel like that'salso very not, it's not
sustainable, not always healthyright To use notifications and
streaks to remember things.
And so I feel like we're tryingto create a new kind of
remembrance, right, it's likeeven in our car deck remembrance
(11:38):
, and when I look at the wordremembrance re again member, to
be a part of like, how do we bea part of something again, and
that, maybe, is what feels soelusive and fraying, is our
social cohesion, and maybe thisis why this is so hard.
Is that, like it feels easierto be apart?
(12:00):
Right, it feels morecomplicated and messy to do
things with other people,particularly when you're not all
in agreement as to whatsomething should be, and or
maybe there aren't the powerdynamics that sort of says like,
oh, this person will lead theway and I will concede my
authority to that person or thatentity.
And so what is this deeperremembrance that we're part of
(12:25):
and I think of, then?
An artist, a poet, and a lanceto it?
Like an artist, like what isthat visual reminder?
Right, the poet, what is thatimagination, and what is the
sort of sketch of words toremind us?
What is, as a land store, theground that we're sort of
standing on to keep us connectedand literally grounded in some
(12:48):
ways?
And so I guess I, you know, Iasked that a question again like
what is an artist, a poet and aland store being called to do
together?
Right, because we can do thosethings separately, right,
there's no, there's nothing thatsort of requires us to do that
(13:08):
together.
What are we being reminded todo, or what is the remembrance
that we're trying to connectback to?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
For me, it's the space that we hold, because I
think art and poetry are theyignite things in our imagination
, in our sense of the worldright, these things like take
you out of your mundane,autopilot life and bring you
(13:40):
into another perspective orreality.
With my work as a land steward,I mean that's a very broad term
and not maybe not everyoneunderstands what that actually
means.
You know, for me, my sense ofmy role tending to land and
community on land is actuallyspace holding as well.
(14:01):
You know it's holding spacewith the land, it's receiving
the space that the land holds.
For me, nature, you know, beingthe land, the land, the water,
the elements, all the elementsof nature, are kind of the ways
that I use to invite people intoa new perspective on their life
(14:24):
.
When they come, you know,wanting something to change in
their life and so in that way, Isee that being the intersection
and what gratitude blooming is.
It's like, in many ways, thepodcast is like.
You know, every single time werecord and share our reflections
(14:46):
, it is a space that's beingheld for us to step out of the
mundane into the likepossibility or like seeing
something in different ways, andI think that's also the
importance of why it's like thethree of us.
It's like we can't see.
We each have our own blindspots or ways that we can't see,
(15:08):
and so you kind of need otherpeople to share what they see.
So then you can we can all seedifferent, differently in a
bigger, more expansive lens.
I don't think that you can.
That can happen even with thebest VR technology, right Like
it is constructed organically inthe moment.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I love your words, belinda, and again, the things
that really stand out for me inyour words are that like what
can we do together?
Right, that we can't do on ourown?
That just seems like a messageI hear from you over and over
again and it's the reminder tome.
(15:53):
But you know, when I sit andthink about the question, omar,
I'm very clear about my.
What I do in my art is it is toheal, it's to heal and I think
it's healing the soul or theheart or whatever.
You know.
It's like I can't the spirit, Idon't know what the right word
(16:16):
is, but I feel like the.
It's very clear to me that thatis my intent in the world.
When you spark someone's poeticimagination, when you spark the
person's individual poeticimagination, it can just shift
so much in the course of thatperson's life, and I feel like
(16:37):
that's what art and poetry havealways done through the ages.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
The words that I'm hearing are healing, place or
space making and play right,enjoy right, like.
How do we remind ourselves like, like, so that way it doesn't
feel like Groundhog's Day, thatit doesn't feel like why?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
am.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I doing this again, Like, why am I like hustling to
either find sponsors or findpeople to show up to something
or to like, you know?
Because if it's not like, theclassic model is like, hey,
we're, you know an e-commercecompany and you want to like
build a product and you want toimprove your SEO.
And if that's not actually themotivation, right, then the
(17:23):
motivation is something you knowdifferent and and then maybe
it's less material and maybeit's more intrinsic.
So how do we put those in theforefront for ourselves?
And I think the reality is thatbecause no one else is going to
do it for us, right, like, ifwe're going to be unconventional
(17:47):
, then then it needs to bereally clear why we're swimming
upstream, right, like, why we'renot going with the flow, why
are we sort of taking thisdifferent route?
And so then, if healing andspace and joy are really what
(18:09):
we're sort of and I and I usethat word medicines, this is the
medicine that we want to bringinto the world Like, what are
the ways in which we are beinginvited to do that?
And then we have no otherobligation other than to that.
We have no other obligationother than to create moments for
(18:30):
healing, create spaces forhealing, create moments for joy.
That's it.
And and so then it's like thisis what we're doing, this is
what our medicine bag is, andlike let's just run and play and
(18:52):
see what is possible withinthat right.
So then, all of a sudden, likean artist, a poet and a lansdour
, like this is our magic.
Let's play, let's figure outhow to bring these things into,
let's listen to how these thingswant to bring into the world,
and we have no obligation to doanything other than that.
(19:15):
We've intentionally chosen thislabor of love.
We've not obligated ourselvesand in fact, we've made choices
to enable us to have thiscreative freedom Right, and
that's our only responsibility.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, I think that's the other important thing is
what are we going to opt out of?
And it's not easy to find otherpeople that are living their
lives differently and opting outof things that a lot of people
are opting into, and I thinkthat is the other piece is like
(19:56):
that, you know, holding space tobe reminded, like, in some ways
, this space of the podcast isremembering every you know,
every time, like why we're doingwhat we're doing in spite of
what's happening outside of us,because I think there's always
(20:17):
these examples of how it's notenough or what else it needs to
be, and what we're creating inmany ways is something
immeasurable.
To me has become really clearthat in some ways, the gratitude
blooming plants and the virtuesof the themes kind of keep us
in integrity and alignment.
(20:38):
You know, being honest abouthow we feel, what we notice
being a shared set of values, Ithink is really important as
well, like I don't think wewould be continuing to do what
we're doing for this longwithout something to anchor that
(20:59):
I would love to pick a card,too and see what gratitude
blooming has to say.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
This whole conversation has been a reminder
of how easy it is to forgetwhat your like purpose or focus.
You know if our focus is, youknow, healing and joy and space
holding.
It's like the world reallyisn't set up for those things,
and so you know.
(21:26):
You've made me think about theimportance of reminders so much
more.
So I don't know if there's aquestion that we can frame
around that.
You know, as we pick a card.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I think the question that's coming to me is just what
should we be listening for?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I'm just going to move the cursor down and you all
just let me know when to stop.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I'm feeling like fourth column.
So, omar, maybe you can pick arow Five.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
There we go.
Number 18, the Daisyrepresenting simplicity.
If you were to simplify yourlife, what would you choose to
keep?
And if I recall, this is thenew t-shirt and tote bag as well
(22:24):
.
Right, like we're rooting foryou.
From SJ, who was a guest andlooked at these two daisies and
saw two eyes looking up at himand just felt the invitation, or
just even felt them cheeringthem on, like he felt like they
were rooting for him.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And in the theme of play.
When I drew these, I rememberafterwards feeling like it felt
like these two daisies wereabout to dance and one was
curtsy.
Like I had this sense of playwhen the drawing emerged.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, it's interesting that there's
multiple flowers, so it's notjust one, it's a pair, and it's
like how can you strip away allthe things that are extraneous
to be able to remember?
Because I think when there'stoo many things it's hard to see
(23:29):
clearly, and this illustrationalways has.
I always see two eyes lookingback at me like very sternly.
So I do feel like there is amessage or a medicine of the
daisy around that Like how canyou keep things really simple to
retain the purest essence ofwhat it is?
(23:51):
And in many ways I think theseplants and the words and the
virtues are kind of that.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, I'm just also centering on the words choose to
keep, and I think part ofsimplicity and part of
remembrance is also like to stayin the moment, and it's our
attachments to obligations andthings that sometimes take us
out of the moment Like we'relike oh, I want this.
(24:23):
We talk about this all the time.
Gratitude reminds us thatchange is constant.
What is not constant is ourmind's ability to adapt, to
change, and the thing is is thatsometimes, if we hold on to too
many things, we're attached andwe are knocked out of staying
present to change, and so it'slike what do we keep that
(24:47):
actually just allows us to achange and adapt?
Really?
That, in some ways, if we wereto flip the question around, I
think is really, what can wekeep that allows us to stay
present?
What can we keep that allows usto adapt?
What can we keep that enablesus to stay present?
Right, that's, in some ways,it's like a much more clarifying
(25:09):
question.
It's like what can I keep tostay here, as opposed to lost in
the past or fearful of thefuture?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Like.
That is what the podcast is.
It's a living expression andmirror of our space that we hold
for this.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Beautiful.
Well, we will now listen to thesong Rememberance by Ariel Lowe
, who's now created thru-bumsaligned with the cards and
hopefully in the new year we'llhave the fourth album and
there'll be a song foreverything in the card deck to
(25:58):
remind us, whether it's visuallyor through sound, of these
things that are important to us.
I love about the song is it hasthat feeling of rewind in it.
(28:36):
Yesterday, as we were drivingback from Tijuana, we started
talking about our dreams and myyoungest daughter, kenzie.
So whenever she's having adream that she doesn't like or a
bad dream, she'll rewind thedream and start over.
(28:56):
And I think you know, I thinkabout the gratitude blooming
card deck, and the first card inthe deck is forgiveness, and
forgiveness is what allows us torewind right, to start over, to
try again.
And maybe that's also maybe thelarger reminder.
Is it we're not supposed to getthis right or perfect right.
(29:22):
It's about us just being human.
And how do we get to be humanevery day?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
What a nice way to end the conversation.
How do we get to be human everyday?
Is that, was that right?
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I feel like we're time traveling with that song.
So lovely to spend this timewith you all every month, a
couple times a month, to kind ofremember and rewind.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Wishing you all well, cheers.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Cheers.
Hello Belinda.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey Omar, so excited for us to be together again with
Arlene in studio Hi Belinda andOmar.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Today's topic is what do an artist, a poet and a land
steward have to do with eachother?
And I love this question.
You know, arlene, our artist,belinda, our land steward, with
Hestia and now Big Island andvisions around the world, and me
(00:48):
with my poetic imagination,we've really been having a
behind the scenes conversationabout, like what calls us
together.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And this is a beautiful time of year to have
this conversation and hold thisquestion.
So many of us entering a newyear are in a more reflective
place, like what am I doing,what have I been doing and why
and where do I want to go?
And I love that a lot of thework around Grad 2 Blooming is
taking that intentional pause tobe with these questions that
(01:27):
don't have easy answers.
I think for me, the biggestquestion is just like how do I
evolve and how do I evolvetogether with others, and what
does nature have to say about it, and what can nature show us
about change and buildingcoherence and navigating
(01:51):
uncertainty, and so for me it'sbeen really like I don't think
these big questions of our timecan be answered in silos within
us.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I love the idea of co-creation, though it sounds
beautiful, but like it's alsojust in reality, it's a messy
process, and so, in that way,the question is why is Grad 2
Blooming, holding space for anartist, a poet and a land
steward coming?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
together when Arlene and I first were thinking about
Grad 2, blooming, like six,seven years ago, like what would
this space be?
We knew we didn't know theanswer, but it was a lot of
holding space for what values,virtues, are most important in
(02:43):
navigating the inner journey.
And even though we've donedifferent things externally, I
feel like it always kind of goesback to that question of like
how do we find our way togetherand having a really tangible
compass.
It's not about the roadmap,it's really more about how do
(03:07):
you know when you're on theright path that feels right and
aligned for you and then with us, I feel like it's been a
collective path of wayfindingand with a lot of checkpoints,
like are we feeling still likewe're all together hitting our
North Star?
So yeah, I think that that is areally important process to go
(03:31):
through and no one can tell youhow to do it except when you're
in the messiness of it, in thedark of it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I think a lot of the reason why I'm an artist is
because I spend a lot of time onmy own.
So to collaborate is actuallyvery energy consuming for me,
and you know.
So when I think about why it isthat I keep showing up for the
(04:02):
podcast, right like month aftermonth, it's because of the words
that I hear you to speak.
There was something Belindajust said you know earlier in
this conversation about.
You know why we need to be incommunity, creating together.
(04:22):
It's important, like things,unexpected things that wouldn't
happen when you're all justworking by yourself will happen
in community, even if being incommunity is can be hard.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Is there anything more specific beyond community
or co-creation, like those feellike very high ideals.
And you know, I think one ofthe things that I've been really
sitting with is like whatactually makes something very
real, though.
Right, you know, yesterday Iwas in Tijuana and delivering,
(05:01):
you know, bags of donatedclothes and blankets for a
sanctuary that is holdingliterally shelter and food and
love for 1600 migrants fromaround the world.
And you know, there's somethingvery real about like crossing a
(05:23):
border, like making a wrongturn in a place that then, all
of a sudden, like getting back,there's not an easy left turn
and then you end up drivinganother three miles in a
direction and then, likecoordinating with the local sort
of group to be like, hey, we'renow three miles from where we
said we were going to be acrossthe border.
(05:43):
How do we get back?
You know, how do we drive upthis like super.
This canyon was like the.
This migrant space has emergedout of a canyon that literally
had, 13 years ago, 500 pigsrunning around, and the pastor
was like being told like youneed to create a space here for
(06:05):
migrants.
He's like it smells.
I don't want to do this, youknow.
And so it's like what are wewilling to tolerate?
Because and he didn't even wantto create the space it was like
three people asked him to dothis before he finally said yes,
you know.
And so like what is your yes inthis space?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The three of us have had conversations offline, right
, about why we're doing the workthat we do, and I do think
where we intersect is that theworld is getting pretty dark out
there, right, the things it'slike we're having.
People are having a hard timejust talking to each other
civilly right Out in the world,and so, you know, when we talk
(06:47):
about creating a space to put alight, shine a light on human
values as opposed to, you know,more, just disagreements and
just the inability to have aconversation with each other,
then I'm like, yeah, this workis, it's foundational, this is
(07:07):
the most important work we canbe doing.
When I'm reminded that that'spart of what we're doing, then
I'm like, yes, I'm gonna show up.
I'll show up as long as, youknow, we're able to reach people
.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
What reminders do you need, Belinda?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think it goes back to what you said about how does
it, what does it take for thingsto feel real?
We've talked a lot about thepodcast, about behavior change,
rewards, reminders, things likethis, and I'm so I'm such an
Aquarius, I don't follow stepsvery well and if it's too
structured I kind of resist it.
(07:45):
That's kind of my resistance.
So for me it's like does whatI'm doing feel real in the world
, in my life, in a deep way?
And I think that's kind of thebeauty I see in the spaces that
we hold, especially in thepodcast, is how do you like be
(08:08):
with the discomfort of thestruggle, because so much of our
society, especially Westernsociety, is all about just
solving the problem and thenshowing what you did afterwards,
but like there were so manymoments where we could have just
been like define something,create something, make it
(08:31):
tangible, make it visible, so wefeel like we've created
something and then we feel like,oh, we're done.
And I think what I've reallyappreciated about our alchemy is
that's not enough for any of usto just like check off the box
and say we finished the job, andI think that's where I feel
(08:53):
like gratitude, blooming as alarger energy, is kind of
pushing us right, like therehave been times where I'm like
why is this so hard, like doingtraditional business things with
a product or with a podcast,like why is it not revealing
itself that it wants to be donein this way?
And I think gratitude bloomingconstantly is challenging each
(09:17):
of us to look for another way,because the current way is not
working and maybe it never had,but like the illusion of it
working, like has never been,you know, present for us, which
is why I think I appreciate uskind of leaning more into our
(09:37):
collective as an art experiment,because I think you know,
arlene, you speak to this a lotis artists don't have any
illusions around knowing theanswer, they're just fascinated
with the inquiry of it andmaking sure that this question
is actually relevant for thetimes.
(09:58):
You know, I feel like artistshistorically have been the
cultural pioneers.
I'm curious for you, omar,what's alive in all of these
questions and reflections?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's very easy to get weighted down by what is
happening or maybe not happeningin the world and centering on
joy and play.
And we know that, like there'sa spontaneity, there's a
curiosity, there's anon-attachment in some ways that
(10:33):
can come out of play.
It does not feel so life ordeath and I'm appreciating right
now.
You know, we say like the threehabits are reminders, routines,
rewards, right, and, and Ithink part of what's happening
(10:55):
right now is that we're used toreminders through notifications
and streaks, right, like I'm bigon Duolingo right now so I can
learn Spanish, and the amount ofenergy that they have created
in the game design to remind meto play, to practice every day
is they put a lot of it's aprobably it's a billion dollar
(11:17):
company to try to just remind meto practice Spanish every day.
But I also feel like that'salso very not, it's not
sustainable, not always healthyright To use notifications and
streaks to remember things.
And so I feel like we're tryingto create a new kind of
remembrance, right, it's likeeven in our car deck remembrance
(11:38):
, and when I look at the wordremembrance re again member, to
be a part of like, how do we bea part of something again, and
that, maybe, is what feels soelusive and fraying, is our
social cohesion, and maybe thisis why this is so hard.
Is that, like it feels easierto be apart?
(12:00):
Right, it feels morecomplicated and messy to do
things with other people,particularly when you're not all
in agreement as to whatsomething should be, and or
maybe there aren't the powerdynamics that sort of says like,
oh, this person will lead theway and I will concede my
authority to that person or thatentity.
And so what is this deeperremembrance that we're part of
(12:25):
and I think of, then?
An artist, a poet, and a lanceto it?
Like an artist, like what isthat visual reminder?
Right, the poet, what is thatimagination, and what is the
sort of sketch of words toremind us?
What is, as a land store, theground that we're sort of
standing on to keep us connectedand literally grounded in some
(12:48):
ways?
And so I guess I, you know, Iasked that a question again like
what is an artist, a poet and aland store being called to do
together?
Right, because we can do thosethings separately, right,
there's no, there's nothing thatsort of requires us to do that
(13:08):
together.
What are we being reminded todo, or what is the remembrance
that we're trying to connectback to?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
For me, it's the space that we hold, because I
think art and poetry are theyignite things in our imagination
, in our sense of the worldright, these things like take
you out of your mundane,autopilot life and bring you
(13:40):
into another perspective orreality.
With my work as a land steward,I mean that's a very broad term
and not maybe not everyoneunderstands what that actually
means.
You know, for me, my sense ofmy role tending to land and
community on land is actuallyspace holding as well.
(14:01):
You know it's holding spacewith the land, it's receiving
the space that the land holds.
For me, nature, you know, beingthe land, the land, the water,
the elements, all the elementsof nature, are kind of the ways
that I use to invite people intoa new perspective on their life
(14:24):
.
When they come, you know,wanting something to change in
their life and so in that way, Isee that being the intersection
and what gratitude blooming is.
It's like, in many ways, thepodcast is like.
You know, every single time werecord and share our reflections
(14:46):
, it is a space that's beingheld for us to step out of the
mundane into the likepossibility or like seeing
something in different ways, andI think that's also the
importance of why it's like thethree of us.
It's like we can't see.
We each have our own blindspots or ways that we can't see,
(15:08):
and so you kind of need otherpeople to share what they see.
So then you can we can all seedifferent, differently in a
bigger, more expansive lens.
I don't think that you can.
That can happen even with thebest VR technology, right Like
it is constructed organically inthe moment.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I love your words, belinda, and again, the things
that really stand out for me inyour words are that like what
can we do together?
Right, that we can't do on ourown?
That just seems like a messageI hear from you over and over
again and it's the reminder tome.
(15:53):
But you know, when I sit andthink about the question, omar,
I'm very clear about my.
What I do in my art is it is toheal, it's to heal and I think
it's healing the soul or theheart or whatever.
You know.
It's like I can't the spirit, Idon't know what the right word
(16:16):
is, but I feel like the.
It's very clear to me that thatis my intent in the world.
When you spark someone's poeticimagination, when you spark the
person's individual poeticimagination, it can just shift
so much in the course of thatperson's life, and I feel like
(16:37):
that's what art and poetry havealways done through the ages.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
The words that I'm hearing are healing, place or
space making and play right,enjoy right, like.
How do we remind ourselves like, like, so that way it doesn't
feel like Groundhog's Day, thatit doesn't feel like why?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
am.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I doing this again, Like, why am I like hustling to
either find sponsors or findpeople to show up to something
or to like, you know?
Because if it's not like, theclassic model is like, hey,
we're, you know an e-commercecompany and you want to like
build a product and you want toimprove your SEO.
And if that's not actually themotivation, right, then the
(17:23):
motivation is something you knowdifferent and and then maybe
it's less material and maybeit's more intrinsic.
So how do we put those in theforefront for ourselves?
And I think the reality is thatbecause no one else is going to
do it for us, right, like, ifwe're going to be unconventional
(17:47):
, then then it needs to bereally clear why we're swimming
upstream, right, like, why we'renot going with the flow, why
are we sort of taking thisdifferent route?
And so then, if healing andspace and joy are really what
(18:09):
we're sort of and I and I usethat word medicines, this is the
medicine that we want to bringinto the world Like, what are
the ways in which we are beinginvited to do that?
And then we have no otherobligation other than to that.
We have no other obligationother than to create moments for
(18:30):
healing, create spaces forhealing, create moments for joy.
That's it.
And and so then it's like thisis what we're doing, this is
what our medicine bag is, andlike let's just run and play and
(18:52):
see what is possible withinthat right.
So then, all of a sudden, likean artist, a poet and a lansdour
, like this is our magic.
Let's play, let's figure outhow to bring these things into,
let's listen to how these thingswant to bring into the world,
and we have no obligation to doanything other than that.
(19:15):
We've intentionally chosen thislabor of love.
We've not obligated ourselvesand in fact, we've made choices
to enable us to have thiscreative freedom Right, and
that's our only responsibility.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, I think that's the other important thing is
what are we going to opt out of?
And it's not easy to find otherpeople that are living their
lives differently and opting outof things that a lot of people
are opting into, and I thinkthat is the other piece is like
(19:56):
that, you know, holding space tobe reminded, like, in some ways
, this space of the podcast isremembering every you know,
every time, like why we're doingwhat we're doing in spite of
what's happening outside of us,because I think there's always
(20:17):
these examples of how it's notenough or what else it needs to
be, and what we're creating inmany ways is something
immeasurable.
To me has become really clearthat in some ways, the gratitude
blooming plants and the virtuesof the themes kind of keep us
in integrity and alignment.
(20:38):
You know, being honest abouthow we feel, what we notice
being a shared set of values, Ithink is really important as
well, like I don't think wewould be continuing to do what
we're doing for this longwithout something to anchor that
(20:59):
I would love to pick a card,too and see what gratitude
blooming has to say.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
This whole conversation has been a reminder
of how easy it is to forgetwhat your like purpose or focus.
You know if our focus is, youknow, healing and joy and space
holding.
It's like the world reallyisn't set up for those things,
and so you know.
(21:26):
You've made me think about theimportance of reminders so much
more.
So I don't know if there's aquestion that we can frame
around that.
You know, as we pick a card.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I think the question that's coming to me is just what
should we be listening for?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I'm just going to move the cursor down and you all
just let me know when to stop.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I'm feeling like fourth column.
So, omar, maybe you can pick arow Five.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
There we go.
Number 18, the Daisyrepresenting simplicity.
If you were to simplify yourlife, what would you choose to
keep?
And if I recall, this is thenew t-shirt and tote bag as well
(22:24):
.
Right, like we're rooting foryou.
From SJ, who was a guest andlooked at these two daisies and
saw two eyes looking up at himand just felt the invitation, or
just even felt them cheeringthem on, like he felt like they
were rooting for him.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And in the theme of play.
When I drew these, I rememberafterwards feeling like it felt
like these two daisies wereabout to dance and one was
curtsy.
Like I had this sense of playwhen the drawing emerged.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, it's interesting that there's
multiple flowers, so it's notjust one, it's a pair, and it's
like how can you strip away allthe things that are extraneous
to be able to remember?
Because I think when there'stoo many things it's hard to see
(23:29):
clearly, and this illustrationalways has.
I always see two eyes lookingback at me like very sternly.
So I do feel like there is amessage or a medicine of the
daisy around that Like how canyou keep things really simple to
retain the purest essence ofwhat it is?
(23:51):
And in many ways I think theseplants and the words and the
virtues are kind of that.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, I'm just also centering on the words choose to
keep, and I think part ofsimplicity and part of
remembrance is also like to stayin the moment, and it's our
attachments to obligations andthings that sometimes take us
out of the moment Like we'relike oh, I want this.
(24:23):
We talk about this all the time.
Gratitude reminds us thatchange is constant.
What is not constant is ourmind's ability to adapt, to
change, and the thing is is thatsometimes, if we hold on to too
many things, we're attached andwe are knocked out of staying
present to change, and so it'slike what do we keep that
(24:47):
actually just allows us to achange and adapt?
Really?
That, in some ways, if we wereto flip the question around, I
think is really, what can wekeep that allows us to stay
present?
What can we keep that allows usto adapt?
What can we keep that enablesus to stay present?
Right, that's, in some ways,it's like a much more clarifying
(25:09):
question.
It's like what can I keep tostay here, as opposed to lost in
the past or fearful of thefuture?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Like.
That is what the podcast is.
It's a living expression andmirror of our space that we hold
for this.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Beautiful.
Well, we will now listen to thesong Rememberance by Ariel Lowe
, who's now created thru-bumsaligned with the cards and
hopefully in the new year we'llhave the fourth album and
there'll be a song foreverything in the card deck to
(25:58):
remind us, whether it's visuallyor through sound, of these
things that are important to us.
I love about the song is it hasthat feeling of rewind in it.
(28:36):
Yesterday, as we were drivingback from Tijuana, we started
talking about our dreams and myyoungest daughter, kenzie.
So whenever she's having adream that she doesn't like or a
bad dream, she'll rewind thedream and start over.
(28:56):
And I think you know, I thinkabout the gratitude blooming
card deck, and the first card inthe deck is forgiveness, and
forgiveness is what allows us torewind right, to start over, to
try again.
And maybe that's also maybe thelarger reminder.
Is it we're not supposed to getthis right or perfect right.
(29:22):
It's about us just being human.
And how do we get to be humanevery day?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
What a nice way to end the conversation.
How do we get to be human everyday?
Is that, was that right?
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I feel like we're time traveling with that song.
So lovely to spend this timewith you all every month, a
couple times a month, to kind ofremember and rewind.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Wishing you all well, cheers.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Cheers.
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