December 23, 2024 • 38 mins
Discover the profound insights of seasonal living with the esteemed Dr. Paul Wang, whose extensive experience in martial, medical, and mystical practices illuminates the path to a life in harmony with nature's cycles. Join us as Dr. Wang reveals the art of dancing through life's changes, emphasizing the importance of aligning with the natural rhythms of birth, growth, maturation, and dormancy also known as spring, summer, fall and winter. Explore the necessity of stillness and the magic of connecting with one's center, as we reflect on the releasing time of fall. Together, we challenge the influences of technology and artificial light, urging a return to rest and the inner world.
We also delve into the dynamic balance of yin and yang during seasonal transitions, examining its impact on our communities and personal relationships. Through the symbolism of nasturtium in the Gratitude Blooming Card deck, we invite you to embrace the darkness and the hidden treasures it can unveil in your life. As we navigate the powerful emotion of fear, Dr. Wang shares strategies to not only face it but thrive amidst uncertainty, drawing on astrological insights and the guiding intelligences of mind, intuition, and instinct. Finally, we celebrate the concept of fearless gratitude, underscoring the role of self-trust and inner confidence in personal transformation and resilience.
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Create an intentional practice with your own Gratitude Blooming card deck, notecards, candle and much much more at our shop at www.gratitudeblooming.com.
Learn more about our co-hosts and special guest for Season 4:
Co-host Belinda Liu | Hestia Retreat Centers
Co-host Omar Brownson | Trickster's Guide to Immortality on Substack
Special Guest Dr. Paul Wang | The Dao Center
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star rating and review. Your feedback is valuable to us and helps us grow.
Share your thoughts and comments by emailing us at hello@gratitudeblooming.com. We love hearing from our listeners!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello Belinda.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey Omar, I am so excited about this special
episode today.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We have the wonderful teacher of so many different
practices the martial, themedical, the mystical, Dr Sifu
Paul Si Wong, joining us againand really we're introducing
kind of a new kind of flow tothe conversation which is really
(00:37):
paying more attention to theseason that we're in, and so
maybe, Belinda, share a littlebit of why you felt like this
was important for us to kind ofintegrate into the Gratitude
Blooming podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, I feel like, with Gratitude Blooming, we're
constantly tuning in to what'shappening in nature and it's so
beautiful to have someone whocomes from a lineage where it's
all about studying what'shappening with the natural world
and embodying the cycles, andwith Dr Paul, we've been
collaborating around ourcommunity gatherings around the
(01:14):
equinoxes and the solstices andjust really trying to understand
.
How does that help us masterchange in our own lives and to
have a system of Chinesemedicine and Taoism and just all
the lineages that you'vestudied, dr Paul, I'd love to
hear from you just what doesseasonal living really mean from
(01:36):
your perspective as a healerand a teacher.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Thank you, belinda, for the invitation to come back.
It's been a little while, butoffline we connect a lot, but to
be here with the GratitudeBlooming audience, it's really
an honor to share sometransmissions around these
themes, this collaboration,words, gratitude and blooming.
(02:01):
And sometimes we think ofblooming, as maybe, like just
you know, the summer flourishing.
But I think in every seasonspring, summer, fall and winter
there are new insights orlessons that bloom, if you will,
that we can be thankful forright, no matter what happens in
what season.
And so the seasonal part, Iwould say, is just an
acknowledgement that there arethese four main phases, at least
(02:26):
if we look at nature, for themapping of birth, and then a
growth and development, and then, at some point, maturation, and
then a harvesting, and then apoint where we want to contract
and even descend into more of aseed or dormancy stage, and that
(02:47):
as sort of a human animals thatactually come from nature.
Anytime we sort of bias towardsone or the other, let's say, you
know, like perpetual growthright or forever in dormancy,
right is not optimal.
And so the living part ofseasonal living is to be able to
(03:09):
I use the verb a lot dance.
I'm not the greatest dancer,but at least an idealization of
making every moment apossibility to flow, no matter
what is happening, based on andthis is a little bit into the
alchemical aspect, alchemicalanatomy, based on connection to
your center, so sort of implicitto seasonal, which is about
(03:32):
phases, living, which is a sortof the kind of the application
of that into your day-to-day.
Is this implied center of youcan call it stillness or silence
, or space of you can call itstillness or silence or space
that is really necessary inorder to live well with the
seasons?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And before we pick a gratitude blooming card, are
there any things that you wantto share about this sort of
slowing down dormancy and maybespeak to a little bit of what
are we coming out of in thistransition?
Because I think sometimes wecan look forward and like, okay,
this is what I'm going to go do, but I've been learning more
(04:12):
and more that there is a lettinggo process that needs to happen
in some ways before we can evenenter into this next transition
.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I'll use a very practical frame that all of us,
I'll very safely assume, canrelate to, and it's drawn from
my personal but alsointerpersonal relationships,
working with a lot of thousandsof patients and students over
almost three decades, and thatis sleep, and so a lot of, let's
say, my clients find itdifficult, as you said, to let
(04:45):
go and let go of what theseexternal projections, right, and
expectations, stories and fears, right, that sort of prevent
them from bringing their energyand awareness in and out, right,
so stuck in the sort ofexternal consciousness.
Whereas for sleep, right, wetalk about sleep and dreams, for
instance, instance, right,that's kind of more moving into
(05:06):
the subconsciousness.
So if we map that onto theseasons, we can say, okay, fall,
right, we should.
We should start to let go rightof the busyness, the craziness,
uh, the concerns of the day andprioritize the inner world, if
you will, or prioritize rest tosimply stated, and because
there's just so many, and Iwould say one of the big factors
(05:27):
is the highly sort ofaccelerating and amplifying
aspect of what technology islike 24-7, in the middle of the
night, right, you can pull yourenergy back out, right, and so
our relationship to technologyhas to be sort of rather than it
using us, right, rather us kindof leveraging it in a healthy
way.
So that of, rather than itusing us, right, rather us kind
of leveraging it in a healthyway.
(05:47):
So that's one of the mainthings right, for instance, to
become, you know, turn down thelights, right, to turn off the
artificial lights.
Because, again, back to seasonalliving, back in the day, the
fall part of the day, right, notthe fall part of the year is,
let's say, after sunset, right,Maybe late afternoon, sometimes
I make it very explicit, likeyou know, the six hours, right,
(06:08):
the one-fourth of the day, whichis 3 to 9 pm, right Is the time
, oh, maybe set an alarm, okay,3 o'clock time to wind down,
right, and definitely aftersunset, right, turn off the
lights, right.
So one of the frames related tothis, this philosophical idea
of yin and yang.
Everyone knows that.
So there is a yin deficiencydue to, in this context, using
(06:30):
sleep as the practice, if youwill, of too much artificial
light, which is kind of a falseyang, if you will, rather than
the true yin of this beautifuldarkness that you can say, even
in a more mythic frame, adescent into darkness, and so,
if you look at it, even expandlike frame, a descent into
darkness, right.
And so, if you look at it, evenexpand like that, like a lot of
us really suck at that, right,we're not good at like slowing
down, quieting down, let alonegoing to stillness, right, the
(06:54):
really depths of that.
And so in this kind of currenttimeframe, right, we're here in
sort of November, decemberseason, it's the winter season,
and so the upcoming, what I justtalked about is the fall season
, right, and so the winterseason is about, like we said,
dormancy, or cocooning.
(07:14):
Or sometimes I use anothersimple metaphor like, okay, we
all want to be successful, risehigh.
But if you think of a simpleaction like jumping, what do you
have to do before you jump?
You have to get low, connect tothe ground, feel that gravity,
and then, boing, rise higher,versus starting with your legs
(07:34):
extended, trying to jump up.
And so winter is that kind oftalking about the next season
afterwards, that season inpreparation to literally spring,
right.
So fall, right, what beautifulliteral word.
Fall is to fall down, right,again, all connotations of the
word.
We're in this kind of culturewhere I think this is sort of
(07:57):
not a skill or something that'sreally deficient.
So that's how I would frame it.
Yeah, fall into winter, andfall is sort of trying to
release all those externalitiesthat allow us to then come down
and inwards.
And then, elementally, winteris about the element of water,
which always seeks the lowestplace right To allow yourself to
seep into and pull into, evenphysically, instead of your head
(08:22):
right and deeper into yourchest, maybe even using your
breath to flow into the belly,which in alchemical practice
relates to the subconscious, andduring that winter phase,
actually you can even use theword intelligence, right.
So by being afraid to go intothe depths, actually it's a pity
because we also divorce ordisconnect or atrophy the aspect
(08:44):
of intelligence which is thesubconscious intelligence, and
even in Western medicine theytalk about it as the enteric
brain or vernacular is the gutinstinct.
So a lot of people are justtrying to use their head to
decide and calculate and they'reso disconnected again from the
depths, from their instinct,from their sort of deep, deep
resources of vitality and wisdom.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I so love learning about the cycles of the seasons
with you on the land and it'sbeen so beautiful having Omar
You've come for a couple of ourequinoxes and you know, this
weekend we got to practicetogether in LA Just this, even
the practice of going from thehead down to the heart, and then
you know you're kind of takingfrom the head down to the heart
and then you know you're kind oftaking it to another level, of
going down into the gut, whichfeels very primal.
And one of the beauties of justworking with the land,
(09:38):
especially in Mount Shasta wherethere are such distinct seasons
, is learning how that is sonatural to embrace darkness
earlier and earlier andstillness and quiet.
Like you know, on the land itgets literally more quiet as the
birds are migrating.
And I know, omar, you and Ihave been really thinking about
(09:59):
how these cycles map ontocreativity and business and all
these things that are very, youknow, modern world has us
thinking like we've got to begoing 24 hours a day, seven days
a week, all year round, tocultivate a successful business
and that is so much.
(10:20):
I feel like that's an artificialway of just like always living
into summer, almost like whereit's that peak energy time, but
in reality in the natural worldthat is only one fourth of the
whole year, and so in many waysI feel like it's been helping me
, at least you know lean intothe slowness and the patience
that's required for depth and toreally get clear, like what are
(10:43):
we doing here and why?
For depth and to really getclear, like what are we doing
here and why.
So, omar, I'm curious how hasit been for you embodying this
way of living and creating andbeing in relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, just as you were talking, I was imagining
the earth, and I think, paul,you shared this last time that
the earth is in some ways likethe yin-yang symbol, and when
you think about it in that sortof three dimensional standpoint,
there's somewhere on earth,there's always somewhere,
(11:13):
there's summer and there'salways sort of winter, you know,
always happening at the sametime, and I think part of the
challenge is that we try to doeverything by ourselves now, and
so then we flatten it, and Ithink that we can sort of hold
these seasons in a healthier waywhen we do it in community.
So maybe someone is sort ofmoving a little bit faster,
(11:35):
while someone else is slowingdown, and I think that too is
just sort of like the in young.
It's not just this one sort ofentity by itself, it's multiple
entities, and so I think for meit's learning when to step back
and be like okay, let someoneelse take the lead on this, and
then, okay, now I've gotten achance to rest, now is it my
turn to kind of step up and like, push in.
(11:58):
And I think that's also what'sjust been so great about our
collaborations.
You know from you know, melinda, you have not just the graduate
blooming but the Hestia RetreatCenter celebrating your 10-year
anniversary this year,hopefully closing any moment now
on a second retreat center onthe Big Island With Paul, you
(12:20):
have the daology, and we've juststarted convening a group of
people through that practice,and so I love this idea that we
can just wear many hats.
But we can only wear many hatswhen we learn to like take some
off and then put some on, and sojust kind of becoming aware of
not trying to do it all all atonce.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
So I'd be curious, dr Paul, as someone that is
constantly cultivating thispractice, thinking about fall to
winter, and we're going to getto ask the grads who blooming
(13:09):
cards for some insight aroundthat inquiry or intention.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, for, let's say, this season of winter and we
already touched on some of them,I think what we need to sort of
highlight in terms of Chinesemedicine, in terms of health, or
, let's say, a lot of thepatients I'm working with now,
the days are getting, I mean,the days are getting shorter,
yes, and the nights are gettinglonger and longer, and
eventually we're going to reachthis maximum yin time called the
(13:38):
winter solstice, and so I'mreally emphasizing something I
think is really important andnot really focused on.
It's getting a little bit morepopular.
But this is part of my studiesfrom undergrad in integrative
biology, which is circadianrhythms.
Most of us are completely outof sync, both internally, like
our liver and our heart and ourbrain.
(14:01):
They're not working in, let'ssay, optimal symphony.
There's a lot of cacophony, andI would say right if, as an
alchemist, the inner isreflected or projected into the
outer and then reflected back tous, and so this sort of inner
out of sync state is also, youknow, shows up as like
(14:22):
fragmentation in ourrelationships, lack of
communication and coordination.
And so one of the first thingsthat I always start with now
with my clients in terms of andwe already talked about it too
is again yin, how to bring inmore yin into their life.
We already talked about it toois again yin, how to bring in
more yin into their life.
How can we add more time indarkness and just a little bit
(14:43):
of physiology?
Is that everyone?
I think it's popular now theidea, or the idea of the hormone
melatonin right, some peoplepop the melatonin and this is
not just a sleep sort of hormone.
This is actually one of theprimary, if not the most
powerful, antioxidant.
So if you aren't gettingsufficient darkness, if you're
(15:05):
absorbing artificial light aftersunset to the extent it's not
like one glance at your phone isgoing to destroy you, but a lot
of my clients long-term developthings like Alzheimer's,
parkinson's, fibromyalgia, thesekind of especially
neurodegenerative diseases dueto yin deficiency, and so one of
the shortest, easiestlow-hanging fruit to continue
(15:25):
the botanical metaphor is inyour sleep environment, and I
even touched on things likedarkness and coldness and
silence and stillness.
Are there ways?
I guess this is the inquiry.
Are there ways that you canincrease those qualities?
And one of the cheapest butmost powerful ways is to get a
(15:45):
blackout curtain right, and sothat's just one example.
I would inquire around that.
What ways can you add more, youknow, rich yin into your life?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And yeah, and what I hear from that question is you
know, what does that darknesshave to tell us?
You know like what does MotherEarth want us to know about that
kind of darkness?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So we have the Gratitude Blooming Card deck up
Seven rows, six columns and,paul, just let me know when you
want me to stop.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Okay, let's stop right there.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Upper row or bottom row here.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
The top row, the top row, top row, all right, and
then one through six.
Um, let's do five, okay.
How to invite yin, and what ismother nature asking us?
In the dark card, number 32,the nasturtium representing the
theme of friendship.
Think of a friendship youcherish.
(17:02):
What makes that friendship sospecial to you?
So, as you see this plant, thisart by Arlene Kim Suda, and
that question of how do weinvite Yin in and what does she
have to say, what comes up foryou?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Is the verb befriend, and most people are afraid of
the darkness, right, afraid, andwe sometimes throw things into
the dark or hide things in thedark in the closet, under the
rug.
Psycho-emotionally, right, andsince earth was mentioned, this
(17:45):
soil idea, right, there's suchrichness in the darkness, right,
and for some people, maybethey've done a lot of whatever
therapy or cultivation, sothey've already excavated a lot
of the hidden wealth, if youwill, wisdom in the darkness.
So they only have maybe, youknow, sort of 10% of darkness
(18:06):
left to excavate.
But I think a lot of us, theaverage person, there's maybe at
least 50%, if not.
This idea of an iceberg, right,the yin part of the iceberg is
unseen under the water andthat's, like you know, depending
on the mass of the iceberg, 80,maybe 80%, and so most of us
have this enemy, if not frenemy,relationship with those scary,
(18:31):
hidden, dark parts of ourselves,and so can we develop a budding
friendship and start to atleast be able to sit in the same
room or at least reach out tothese hidden parts of us that
are maybe wanting to talk to us,but we're the ones pushing them
away.
Guide, I've seen so much, justlike someone you randomly meet,
let's say at the farmer's marketor whatever, and then you get
(19:02):
to talking and boom.
Five years later you've sharedso much, you've learned so much
from each other and there areaspects of ourselves within that
can be like these kind of newfriendships.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I love that, and what is really present looking at
the artwork from Arlene, is therelationship to me between the
flower and the leaf.
It's almost like you need to befriends with this aspect of
yourself to be thriving, whichis such a hard thing to embrace,
right, I can be a more wholeperson, I could be a more wise
(19:40):
person if I am friends with allof these sides of myself and
what comes up for me around,like what are the emotions that
I need to be better friends with?
And I'm going to ask you guysthe same question, so I'm going
to give you some think time asI'm sharing.
I remember, you know, back inyou know Omar, you said 10 year
(20:01):
anniversary of our land.
I remember the first five yearsof my relationship with the
land.
It just somehow would alwayswork out that I would get to
spend a month from Oakland tostay in Mount Shasta for the
month, and I remember beingreally scared of this fall
season in November when it wouldjust get so dark and so cold
(20:26):
and having all this time andspace to be with myself was kind
of scary because it's like allthe things that you don't want
to think about or all the waysthat you can distract yourself.
Living in a city, you cannot dothat in nature when it's so
quiet and still, and I rememberthese feelings of like
insecurity every fall would comeup and I think it would happen.
(20:49):
You know, looking at like, well, what have I accomplished this
year with my business?
Or looking at social media andseeing, like how amazing
somebody else is doing comparedto me, and you know all these
stories that would come out,which might be true, maybe not.
So I would say, like learningto understand what is that
insecurity?
(21:09):
Or like lack of worth, orneeding to feel like I have done
more with my time all year,like's underlying that and
trying to also cultivate someself-compassion.
I would say befriending myselfin the way of like, yeah, you
don't need to show the worldthat you've done all these
things, to be clear withyourself about your gifts and
(21:32):
your talents.
And so it was a lot of lettinggo of this external need to show
that I've done all these thingsor I'm so successful doing all
these things.
It was more of learning tocultivate this internal sense of
self-worth, which definitelywas not easy.
So I'm curious for each of youwhat would you say is the
(21:53):
emotion or the side of you thatyou're learning to befriend in
this season, or the side of youthat you're learning to?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
befriend in this season.
Well, I love that this came upa little bit in the cacao
ceremony that we did together,where for me, the invitation was
to release control from themind and invite friendship into
the heart and that is the bestdefinition I've ever heard of
self-compassion is to be afriend to yourself.
(22:20):
Right, and because when you'rea friend to yourself, you're
just accepting who you are, youknow, as you are, without
judgment.
Season right, and reallythinking about winter, and this
(22:42):
in some ways was inspired by thepodcast, the Emerald, and the
last episode was about fire.
And so I'm going to start aweekly fire in my backyard and
this is a way to really kind ofswitch from those digital lights
, kind of switch from thosedigital lights and really kind
(23:04):
of really invite the sort of thelight that was probably around
the longest at night, which wasjust fire.
And so for me, it's just likeI'm just going to be curious as
to like what happens to my eyesas I watch fire dance in the
evening and I create this sortof ritual.
I'm imagining this is going tobe probably like on a Friday or
a Saturday night, so really kindof a close of a week and just
(23:25):
really like, how do I justsettle in and just sort of not
watch the television, turn onthe fire and just sort of let
that be the way that I kind ofjust close, you know whatever
happened Monday through Fridayand just be like, okay, this is
(23:46):
a different moment, let me be inthe dark, let me be with the
smoke, let me be with the fireand just sort of, yeah, I'm
excited to sort of see whathappens.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
For me and I'll dance with Omar a little bit, since
he mentioned fire, I'm going toinvoke water again to stay with
the current season, and I wouldsay, you know, people have
different relationships to water.
Let's imagine sort of a riveror a pond or a lake or a stream
or even the ocean, and for somepeople there's a lot of fear.
(24:19):
They stay away from the water,they can't experience, let's say
, the qualities of water,because they have this fear,
this boundary, and maybe it's ahealthy fear.
I want to throw that in.
Some people are very black andwhite, like fear, bad love, love
, good, right, but as a yin-yangalchemist, it quote-unquote
(24:43):
depends on the context and,let's say, the quality of that
kind of, let's say, energeticpattern we call emotions.
And so, you know, we recentlywent through an election cycle
here in the US, so there was alot of fear that was explosive,
almost right, like, to keep thewater metaphor, it's almost like
avalanche, you know, or theiceberg sort of breaking and
(25:07):
splash, and a lot of people werereally freaking out.
And not as a criticism, I mean,that's just an observation, and
maybe they have every sort ofyou.
You know, everyone has everyright to feel what they feel, of
course, and the inquiry, though, then, is how much of these
fears are sort of projected oror due to the dissolution of an
(25:29):
expectation right, and it's very, very difficult.
So maybe there's a reminderthere, like in terms of
cultivation, is that can youhold multiple realities at the
same time and the whole?
You know, don't put all youreggs in one basket.
Maybe you can have five basketsright.
So if one gets crushed right,you can still make your omelets
right.
(25:51):
And so the back to the waterrelationship.
Is water an enemy?
And maybe, because you know,you had a childhood friend that
drowned right.
And so ever since then and whenyou went down to save them
actually this is a personalstory I had a trip to Mexico
with my sisters and the three ofus almost drowned, and so this
is a bit of autobiographical,and I could say forget water, I
(26:15):
don't need water, I'm going tojust hang out with wood element
or fire element, much safer.
But as you can see, this fearcan also relate to fire as well.
So my point is or, for me, whenI relate to fear, and I have as
strong fear, energy as the bestof them, and I try to use that
(26:36):
tremendous power, because fearis sort of very primal energy of
survival.
We wouldn't be here if ourancestors didn't feel fear.
But did that fear freeze them?
Or were they able to sort ofmelt, if you will, that fear
energy and channel it as apowerful current towards a
certain purpose?
And so that depends oncultivation, and you can say in
(26:58):
this context, your skill, orlack thereof, of swimming.
So if you're a surfer or a goodswimmer, then when you see
water you're like runningtowards it, right.
Or if you're a free diver thateven overcomes more, you can be
butt naked without any snorkelor scuba gear and you're fine.
You could dive into the depthsjust based on what you were born
(27:20):
with your birthday suit, if youwill.
So yeah, I would say fear.
Fear is actually something verystrong in me, and a lot of
people would look at me and say,oh, you don't seem like a very
fearful person, but I would sayI definitely froze when I was in
a younger time, even in thiskind of situation, to speak no,
(27:41):
I would fall mute very readilyand find it very difficult to
express myself and so I'veworked a lot around this winter
watcher emotion of fear, bydeveloping skills, by learning
to swim in these kind of scaryor unknown situations or, like
(28:01):
Belinda said, uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I love the invitation or the paradox between for me
at least embracing fire so thatI can be with darkness and in
some ways the heat of the firewill help me be more present to
the cool air of the night, notcreating these, like you said,
(28:24):
fear is not bad, it's like no.
How do you work with thatenergy and then find your way to
thaw it so you're not frozen?
Frozen, yeah, and I'm just kindof curious.
You know, this has been a notjust a tumultuous year, it's
been a tumultuous period, I feellike, for a while now, and so
(28:45):
even maybe taking a step backfrom the season of the year that
we're in, would you saymetaphorically, you know, maybe,
what season are we at?
Maybe even a more global level?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, I explored that question because I do astrology
too Chinese astrology or Taoastrology for individual human
beings.
But you can also look at thebirthday of a nation, like 1776,
whenever the constitution wasdrawn, and at this moment I
(29:19):
can't remember, I didn't delvethat deeply into it, but it's an
interesting question.
So you can use the birth chart.
Of course, I don't know whenthe planet was born, so I can't
speak at that level.
And I would just say then, backto this mapping of the seasonal
change, that once you have thisand this is, of course, my bias
, like why I think it's reallyimportant to have these
(29:40):
alchemical maps is and to tieback to what you said earlier,
omar is that it's like thatmovie everything everywhere all
at once, right, and?
But the mapping just gives youoptions, like even, like I said
about the differentintelligences, right, like
you're racking your headintelligence, your intellect,
your your pro and con analysisto try to figure it out, because
(30:01):
you think that's the only sortof element that you can work
with, and that's really it's themetal element to try to chop,
chop and try to cut throughthings, and you realize, oh, wow
, there's also a sort of a fireintelligence related to the
heart, right, which is this kindof intuitional intelligence,
and then, like I said earlier,this water intelligence.
That's your gut instinct.
(30:22):
And so now, if you can practice, first of all, take that as a
hypothesis and then apply it toyour life, like, yeah, that's
true, I felt like in somesituations I didn't figure it
out by thinking or overthinking,I actually just immediately
just chose something and, lo andbehold, most of the times when
I followed that first impression, that instinctual impulse, I
(30:43):
was correct.
And then so can you kind ofrecalibrate how you move through
this, and these are kind ofseasonal intelligences, if you
will.
Hopefully this is making sensethat I'm not just gonna just
like some people, right, like wesaid earlier.
Right, they want to be in thatkind of fire, expansion, growth,
right, which is kind of tiringto always be in that state.
(31:04):
Or even cancerous, right, if wethink about the body, if a cell
wants to always be in thatstate, that's cancer and that
kind of can metastasize.
And so what's going on?
Everything is going on.
I think in our 300,000 yearhistory as Homo sapiens, sapiens
, we've definitely hadsituations where we cut it kind
(31:25):
of close.
There were certain bottlenecksfor our species, where I don't
know how many were left.
So we have it in our ancestry,in our genetic and epigenetic
sort of heredity, to find thatcreativity and no matter what is
happening.
And this is again the advantageof being an alchemist is
because you have all thesedynamic maps and you learn to do
(31:47):
that seasonal living and, likeI said earlier, you also
cultivate a center which nevermoves, sort of like a pendulum.
Right when you're swinging apendulum you can't swing the,
the top part, you got to keepone part still, and then the,
the bottom, where the stone isor the crystal is, like that,
that kind of back and forth yinand yang say.
You're spinning like thatpendulum.
The pull of that kind ofmomentum actually helps you feel
(32:28):
the center a bit stronger.
I don't know if that makes sense.
So we're always going to haveelections and wars, more or less
inner and outer conflicts, andI found no final solution in the
seasons themselves.
The seasons are sort of thediverse changes.
The only real solution that Ifound which is permanent and
(32:48):
reliable and sustainable is inthe unconditional, is at the
center, at the center of being.
That, when you can identifymore with it, allows you not to
feel so insecure.
It's almost like you develop apart of you that says this to
you with confidence, which is Igot you.
(33:09):
Can you develop that part ofyou that improves to you right,
like a good friend in manydifferent, especially difficult
situations?
That they do got you.
But this part I'm talking aboutis you can call it your inner
self, or your higher self, ordeeper self.
That sort of self-trust is, Ithink, the most powerful
(33:30):
medicine to navigate the change.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I love it.
This is the season of comingback into our center always and
getting more and more practicedwith that, with all the
polarities that pull us out ofour center.
And it's so perfect howeverything just synchronizes,
because Omar and I have beentalking a lot about this idea of
fearless gratitude and, omar,you have such beautiful ways to
(33:56):
describe what that is.
We had a previous episode fromour collaboration with the
Democracy Center where we werereally unpacking that idea of
fearless gratitude and it doesmap to this winter season
element and I'm really excitedto invite all of our listeners
into the practice, into theexperience of leaning into
(34:17):
fearless gratitude as a way ofliving, as a way of coming back
into our center.
So we have two offerings comingup for this holiday season.
One is we created a fearlessgratitude medicine bundle which
has a candle to ignite ourinspiration around the good, the
(34:38):
bad, the ugly of life, justtrying to bring in that spirit
of gratitude to all of thesethings.
And a soothing tea to kind ofbring us back into the senses,
into our bodies, into thepresent moment.
And also the fearless gratitudenote cards, which are so
beautiful because there's thestories of the podcast that are
(35:01):
related to each of those themesand those are kind of the, I
would say, the darker shades ofgratitude blooming, you know,
like working with humility andvulnerability.
Those are not easy things.
Courage, it takes a lot ofself-friendship to even want to
sit at the table with yourselfand be with those emotions and
(35:21):
those themes.
Omar, do you want to speak alittle bit to the second
offering that we have, which isour online journey?
We're getting ready to startthat soon.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, we're really trying to curate.
We've created so much content.
I think we're at over 117podcast episodes.
We've had hundreds of gratitudecircles with thousands of
people, and so we feel likewe're at the stage now where
we're like how do we curate someof this content into an online
learning journey?
(35:52):
We invite you to sign up athello at gratitudebloomingcom,
to get on the wait list so thatyou'll be the first to know when
we're ready to release thisseries.
And I love, paul, what you saidabout just the unconditional.
I was just writing about thattoday and it was my wife who
(36:12):
first told me, like what doesunconditional love mean?
And we were in high school, sowe were just at puppy love.
But I remember asking her and Iwas like, well, what does
unconditional love mean?
And she says no stringsattached.
And so, just when no stringsare attached, it's not the logic
of love, it's not if you dothis, then I will do that.
(36:35):
I just love you because, rightas you are and as you said, I
got you, and so when you feelthat level of belonging, then
you can have that centeredness,right, like you can be that
anchor to the pendulum, you canbe that sort of center in the
eye of a storm, and so I just Ilove that, as we think about
(36:56):
seasonality, it is both aboutthis recognition that change is
constant, and there's also thisinvitation to find stillness in
that change.
Right, and how do we sort of be?
And that's what I think thissort of seasons just help us do
is to kind of keep in practice.
And so I know I'm lookingforward to this new series.
(37:17):
That medicine bundle soundsamazing and I know I'm going to
be lighting a weekly fire inthis upcoming winter season.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Thank you so much, dr Paul, for joining us, and how
can people find you if they wantto get their Tao astrology,
which I love?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And I just recently did myself it's incredible, just
to learn about yourself?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
elementally, how can people find out about you and
your work and practice with you?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
My website is daocentercom.
There we go with the center.
I'm on Center Street inBerkeley, california, so
D-A-O-C-E-N-T-E-Rcom and myemail is info at daocentercom,
so you can reach me there foryour questions or requests.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And for those of you that want to meet me and Paul in
person, we're going to be inBig Island, hawaii, for the New
Year's for a winter element,water element, sabbatical, so
we'd love to see some of youthere.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Beautiful.
Well, I'm certainly gratefulfor my friendship with each of
you and all the different waysthat we get to dance with each
other.
Wishing you all well.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Thank you.
Thank you, bye-bye.
Hello Belinda.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey Omar, I am so excited about this special
episode today.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We have the wonderful teacher of so many different
practices the martial, themedical, the mystical, Dr Sifu
Paul Si Wong, joining us againand really we're introducing
kind of a new kind of flow tothe conversation which is really
(00:37):
paying more attention to theseason that we're in, and so
maybe, Belinda, share a littlebit of why you felt like this
was important for us to kind ofintegrate into the Gratitude
Blooming podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, I feel like, with Gratitude Blooming, we're
constantly tuning in to what'shappening in nature and it's so
beautiful to have someone whocomes from a lineage where it's
all about studying what'shappening with the natural world
and embodying the cycles, andwith Dr Paul, we've been
collaborating around ourcommunity gatherings around the
(01:14):
equinoxes and the solstices andjust really trying to understand
.
How does that help us masterchange in our own lives and to
have a system of Chinesemedicine and Taoism and just all
the lineages that you'vestudied, dr Paul, I'd love to
hear from you just what doesseasonal living really mean from
(01:36):
your perspective as a healerand a teacher.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Thank you, belinda, for the invitation to come back.
It's been a little while, butoffline we connect a lot, but to
be here with the GratitudeBlooming audience, it's really
an honor to share sometransmissions around these
themes, this collaboration,words, gratitude and blooming.
(02:01):
And sometimes we think ofblooming, as maybe, like just
you know, the summer flourishing.
But I think in every seasonspring, summer, fall and winter
there are new insights orlessons that bloom, if you will,
that we can be thankful forright, no matter what happens in
what season.
And so the seasonal part, Iwould say, is just an
acknowledgement that there arethese four main phases, at least
(02:26):
if we look at nature, for themapping of birth, and then a
growth and development, and then, at some point, maturation, and
then a harvesting, and then apoint where we want to contract
and even descend into more of aseed or dormancy stage, and that
(02:47):
as sort of a human animals thatactually come from nature.
Anytime we sort of bias towardsone or the other, let's say, you
know, like perpetual growthright or forever in dormancy,
right is not optimal.
And so the living part ofseasonal living is to be able to
(03:09):
I use the verb a lot dance.
I'm not the greatest dancer,but at least an idealization of
making every moment apossibility to flow, no matter
what is happening, based on andthis is a little bit into the
alchemical aspect, alchemicalanatomy, based on connection to
your center, so sort of implicitto seasonal, which is about
(03:32):
phases, living, which is a sortof the kind of the application
of that into your day-to-day.
Is this implied center of youcan call it stillness or silence
, or space of you can call itstillness or silence or space
that is really necessary inorder to live well with the
seasons?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And before we pick a gratitude blooming card, are
there any things that you wantto share about this sort of
slowing down dormancy and maybespeak to a little bit of what
are we coming out of in thistransition?
Because I think sometimes wecan look forward and like, okay,
this is what I'm going to go do, but I've been learning more
(04:12):
and more that there is a lettinggo process that needs to happen
in some ways before we can evenenter into this next transition
.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I'll use a very practical frame that all of us,
I'll very safely assume, canrelate to, and it's drawn from
my personal but alsointerpersonal relationships,
working with a lot of thousandsof patients and students over
almost three decades, and thatis sleep, and so a lot of, let's
say, my clients find itdifficult, as you said, to let
(04:45):
go and let go of what theseexternal projections, right, and
expectations, stories and fears, right, that sort of prevent
them from bringing their energyand awareness in and out, right,
so stuck in the sort ofexternal consciousness.
Whereas for sleep, right, wetalk about sleep and dreams, for
instance, instance, right,that's kind of more moving into
(05:06):
the subconsciousness.
So if we map that onto theseasons, we can say, okay, fall,
right, we should.
We should start to let go rightof the busyness, the craziness,
uh, the concerns of the day andprioritize the inner world, if
you will, or prioritize rest tosimply stated, and because
there's just so many, and Iwould say one of the big factors
(05:27):
is the highly sort ofaccelerating and amplifying
aspect of what technology islike 24-7, in the middle of the
night, right, you can pull yourenergy back out, right, and so
our relationship to technologyhas to be sort of rather than it
using us, right, rather us kindof leveraging it in a healthy
way.
So that of, rather than itusing us, right, rather us kind
of leveraging it in a healthyway.
(05:47):
So that's one of the mainthings right, for instance, to
become, you know, turn down thelights, right, to turn off the
artificial lights.
Because, again, back to seasonalliving, back in the day, the
fall part of the day, right, notthe fall part of the year is,
let's say, after sunset, right,Maybe late afternoon, sometimes
I make it very explicit, likeyou know, the six hours, right,
(06:08):
the one-fourth of the day, whichis 3 to 9 pm, right Is the time
, oh, maybe set an alarm, okay,3 o'clock time to wind down,
right, and definitely aftersunset, right, turn off the
lights, right.
So one of the frames related tothis, this philosophical idea
of yin and yang.
Everyone knows that.
So there is a yin deficiencydue to, in this context, using
(06:30):
sleep as the practice, if youwill, of too much artificial
light, which is kind of a falseyang, if you will, rather than
the true yin of this beautifuldarkness that you can say, even
in a more mythic frame, adescent into darkness, and so,
if you look at it, even expandlike frame, a descent into
darkness, right.
And so, if you look at it, evenexpand like that, like a lot of
us really suck at that, right,we're not good at like slowing
down, quieting down, let alonegoing to stillness, right, the
(06:54):
really depths of that.
And so in this kind of currenttimeframe, right, we're here in
sort of November, decemberseason, it's the winter season,
and so the upcoming, what I justtalked about is the fall season
, right, and so the winterseason is about, like we said,
dormancy, or cocooning.
(07:14):
Or sometimes I use anothersimple metaphor like, okay, we
all want to be successful, risehigh.
But if you think of a simpleaction like jumping, what do you
have to do before you jump?
You have to get low, connect tothe ground, feel that gravity,
and then, boing, rise higher,versus starting with your legs
(07:34):
extended, trying to jump up.
And so winter is that kind oftalking about the next season
afterwards, that season inpreparation to literally spring,
right.
So fall, right, what beautifulliteral word.
Fall is to fall down, right,again, all connotations of the
word.
We're in this kind of culturewhere I think this is sort of
(07:57):
not a skill or something that'sreally deficient.
So that's how I would frame it.
Yeah, fall into winter, andfall is sort of trying to
release all those externalitiesthat allow us to then come down
and inwards.
And then, elementally, winteris about the element of water,
which always seeks the lowestplace right To allow yourself to
seep into and pull into, evenphysically, instead of your head
(08:22):
right and deeper into yourchest, maybe even using your
breath to flow into the belly,which in alchemical practice
relates to the subconscious, andduring that winter phase,
actually you can even use theword intelligence, right.
So by being afraid to go intothe depths, actually it's a pity
because we also divorce ordisconnect or atrophy the aspect
(08:44):
of intelligence which is thesubconscious intelligence, and
even in Western medicine theytalk about it as the enteric
brain or vernacular is the gutinstinct.
So a lot of people are justtrying to use their head to
decide and calculate and they'reso disconnected again from the
depths, from their instinct,from their sort of deep, deep
resources of vitality and wisdom.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I so love learning about the cycles of the seasons
with you on the land and it'sbeen so beautiful having Omar
You've come for a couple of ourequinoxes and you know, this
weekend we got to practicetogether in LA Just this, even
the practice of going from thehead down to the heart, and then
you know you're kind of takingfrom the head down to the heart
and then you know you're kind oftaking it to another level, of
going down into the gut, whichfeels very primal.
And one of the beauties of justworking with the land,
(09:38):
especially in Mount Shasta wherethere are such distinct seasons
, is learning how that is sonatural to embrace darkness
earlier and earlier andstillness and quiet.
Like you know, on the land itgets literally more quiet as the
birds are migrating.
And I know, omar, you and Ihave been really thinking about
(09:59):
how these cycles map ontocreativity and business and all
these things that are very, youknow, modern world has us
thinking like we've got to begoing 24 hours a day, seven days
a week, all year round, tocultivate a successful business
and that is so much.
(10:20):
I feel like that's an artificialway of just like always living
into summer, almost like whereit's that peak energy time, but
in reality in the natural worldthat is only one fourth of the
whole year, and so in many waysI feel like it's been helping me
, at least you know lean intothe slowness and the patience
that's required for depth and toreally get clear, like what are
(10:43):
we doing here and why?
For depth and to really getclear, like what are we doing
here and why.
So, omar, I'm curious how hasit been for you embodying this
way of living and creating andbeing in relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, just as you were talking, I was imagining
the earth, and I think, paul,you shared this last time that
the earth is in some ways likethe yin-yang symbol, and when
you think about it in that sortof three dimensional standpoint,
there's somewhere on earth,there's always somewhere,
(11:13):
there's summer and there'salways sort of winter, you know,
always happening at the sametime, and I think part of the
challenge is that we try to doeverything by ourselves now, and
so then we flatten it, and Ithink that we can sort of hold
these seasons in a healthier waywhen we do it in community.
So maybe someone is sort ofmoving a little bit faster,
(11:35):
while someone else is slowingdown, and I think that too is
just sort of like the in young.
It's not just this one sort ofentity by itself, it's multiple
entities, and so I think for meit's learning when to step back
and be like okay, let someoneelse take the lead on this, and
then, okay, now I've gotten achance to rest, now is it my
turn to kind of step up and like, push in.
(11:58):
And I think that's also what'sjust been so great about our
collaborations.
You know from you know, melinda, you have not just the graduate
blooming but the Hestia RetreatCenter celebrating your 10-year
anniversary this year,hopefully closing any moment now
on a second retreat center onthe Big Island With Paul, you
(12:20):
have the daology, and we've juststarted convening a group of
people through that practice,and so I love this idea that we
can just wear many hats.
But we can only wear many hatswhen we learn to like take some
off and then put some on, and sojust kind of becoming aware of
not trying to do it all all atonce.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
So I'd be curious, dr Paul, as someone that is
constantly cultivating thispractice, thinking about fall to
winter, and we're going to getto ask the grads who blooming
(13:09):
cards for some insight aroundthat inquiry or intention.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, for, let's say, this season of winter and we
already touched on some of them,I think what we need to sort of
highlight in terms of Chinesemedicine, in terms of health, or
, let's say, a lot of thepatients I'm working with now,
the days are getting, I mean,the days are getting shorter,
yes, and the nights are gettinglonger and longer, and
eventually we're going to reachthis maximum yin time called the
(13:38):
winter solstice, and so I'mreally emphasizing something I
think is really important andnot really focused on.
It's getting a little bit morepopular.
But this is part of my studiesfrom undergrad in integrative
biology, which is circadianrhythms.
Most of us are completely outof sync, both internally, like
our liver and our heart and ourbrain.
(14:01):
They're not working in, let'ssay, optimal symphony.
There's a lot of cacophony, andI would say right if, as an
alchemist, the inner isreflected or projected into the
outer and then reflected back tous, and so this sort of inner
out of sync state is also, youknow, shows up as like
(14:22):
fragmentation in ourrelationships, lack of
communication and coordination.
And so one of the first thingsthat I always start with now
with my clients in terms of andwe already talked about it too
is again yin, how to bring inmore yin into their life.
We already talked about it toois again yin, how to bring in
more yin into their life.
How can we add more time indarkness and just a little bit
(14:43):
of physiology?
Is that everyone?
I think it's popular now theidea, or the idea of the hormone
melatonin right, some peoplepop the melatonin and this is
not just a sleep sort of hormone.
This is actually one of theprimary, if not the most
powerful, antioxidant.
So if you aren't gettingsufficient darkness, if you're
(15:05):
absorbing artificial light aftersunset to the extent it's not
like one glance at your phone isgoing to destroy you, but a lot
of my clients long-term developthings like Alzheimer's,
parkinson's, fibromyalgia, thesekind of especially
neurodegenerative diseases dueto yin deficiency, and so one of
the shortest, easiestlow-hanging fruit to continue
(15:25):
the botanical metaphor is inyour sleep environment, and I
even touched on things likedarkness and coldness and
silence and stillness.
Are there ways?
I guess this is the inquiry.
Are there ways that you canincrease those qualities?
And one of the cheapest butmost powerful ways is to get a
(15:45):
blackout curtain right, and sothat's just one example.
I would inquire around that.
What ways can you add more, youknow, rich yin into your life?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And yeah, and what I hear from that question is you
know, what does that darknesshave to tell us?
You know like what does MotherEarth want us to know about that
kind of darkness?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So we have the Gratitude Blooming Card deck up
Seven rows, six columns and,paul, just let me know when you
want me to stop.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Okay, let's stop right there.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Upper row or bottom row here.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
The top row, the top row, top row, all right, and
then one through six.
Um, let's do five, okay.
How to invite yin, and what ismother nature asking us?
In the dark card, number 32,the nasturtium representing the
theme of friendship.
Think of a friendship youcherish.
(17:02):
What makes that friendship sospecial to you?
So, as you see this plant, thisart by Arlene Kim Suda, and
that question of how do weinvite Yin in and what does she
have to say, what comes up foryou?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Is the verb befriend, and most people are afraid of
the darkness, right, afraid, andwe sometimes throw things into
the dark or hide things in thedark in the closet, under the
rug.
Psycho-emotionally, right, andsince earth was mentioned, this
(17:45):
soil idea, right, there's suchrichness in the darkness, right,
and for some people, maybethey've done a lot of whatever
therapy or cultivation, sothey've already excavated a lot
of the hidden wealth, if youwill, wisdom in the darkness.
So they only have maybe, youknow, sort of 10% of darkness
(18:06):
left to excavate.
But I think a lot of us, theaverage person, there's maybe at
least 50%, if not.
This idea of an iceberg, right,the yin part of the iceberg is
unseen under the water andthat's, like you know, depending
on the mass of the iceberg, 80,maybe 80%, and so most of us
have this enemy, if not frenemy,relationship with those scary,
(18:31):
hidden, dark parts of ourselves,and so can we develop a budding
friendship and start to atleast be able to sit in the same
room or at least reach out tothese hidden parts of us that
are maybe wanting to talk to us,but we're the ones pushing them
away.
Guide, I've seen so much, justlike someone you randomly meet,
let's say at the farmer's marketor whatever, and then you get
(19:02):
to talking and boom.
Five years later you've sharedso much, you've learned so much
from each other and there areaspects of ourselves within that
can be like these kind of newfriendships.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I love that, and what is really present looking at
the artwork from Arlene, is therelationship to me between the
flower and the leaf.
It's almost like you need to befriends with this aspect of
yourself to be thriving, whichis such a hard thing to embrace,
right, I can be a more wholeperson, I could be a more wise
(19:40):
person if I am friends with allof these sides of myself and
what comes up for me around,like what are the emotions that
I need to be better friends with?
And I'm going to ask you guysthe same question, so I'm going
to give you some think time asI'm sharing.
I remember, you know, back inyou know Omar, you said 10 year
(20:01):
anniversary of our land.
I remember the first five yearsof my relationship with the
land.
It just somehow would alwayswork out that I would get to
spend a month from Oakland tostay in Mount Shasta for the
month, and I remember beingreally scared of this fall
season in November when it wouldjust get so dark and so cold
(20:26):
and having all this time andspace to be with myself was kind
of scary because it's like allthe things that you don't want
to think about or all the waysthat you can distract yourself.
Living in a city, you cannot dothat in nature when it's so
quiet and still, and I rememberthese feelings of like
insecurity every fall would comeup and I think it would happen.
(20:49):
You know, looking at like, well, what have I accomplished this
year with my business?
Or looking at social media andseeing, like how amazing
somebody else is doing comparedto me, and you know all these
stories that would come out,which might be true, maybe not.
So I would say, like learningto understand what is that
insecurity?
(21:09):
Or like lack of worth, orneeding to feel like I have done
more with my time all year,like's underlying that and
trying to also cultivate someself-compassion.
I would say befriending myselfin the way of like, yeah, you
don't need to show the worldthat you've done all these
things, to be clear withyourself about your gifts and
(21:32):
your talents.
And so it was a lot of lettinggo of this external need to show
that I've done all these thingsor I'm so successful doing all
these things.
It was more of learning tocultivate this internal sense of
self-worth, which definitelywas not easy.
So I'm curious for each of youwhat would you say is the
(21:53):
emotion or the side of you thatyou're learning to befriend in
this season, or the side of youthat you're learning to?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
befriend in this season.
Well, I love that this came upa little bit in the cacao
ceremony that we did together,where for me, the invitation was
to release control from themind and invite friendship into
the heart and that is the bestdefinition I've ever heard of
self-compassion is to be afriend to yourself.
(22:20):
Right, and because when you'rea friend to yourself, you're
just accepting who you are, youknow, as you are, without
judgment.
Season right, and reallythinking about winter, and this
(22:42):
in some ways was inspired by thepodcast, the Emerald, and the
last episode was about fire.
And so I'm going to start aweekly fire in my backyard and
this is a way to really kind ofswitch from those digital lights
, kind of switch from thosedigital lights and really kind
(23:04):
of really invite the sort of thelight that was probably around
the longest at night, which wasjust fire.
And so for me, it's just likeI'm just going to be curious as
to like what happens to my eyesas I watch fire dance in the
evening and I create this sortof ritual.
I'm imagining this is going tobe probably like on a Friday or
a Saturday night, so really kindof a close of a week and just
(23:25):
really like, how do I justsettle in and just sort of not
watch the television, turn onthe fire and just sort of let
that be the way that I kind ofjust close, you know whatever
happened Monday through Fridayand just be like, okay, this is
(23:46):
a different moment, let me be inthe dark, let me be with the
smoke, let me be with the fireand just sort of, yeah, I'm
excited to sort of see whathappens.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
For me and I'll dance with Omar a little bit, since
he mentioned fire, I'm going toinvoke water again to stay with
the current season, and I wouldsay, you know, people have
different relationships to water.
Let's imagine sort of a riveror a pond or a lake or a stream
or even the ocean, and for somepeople there's a lot of fear.
(24:19):
They stay away from the water,they can't experience, let's say
, the qualities of water,because they have this fear,
this boundary, and maybe it's ahealthy fear.
I want to throw that in.
Some people are very black andwhite, like fear, bad love, love
, good, right, but as a yin-yangalchemist, it quote-unquote
(24:43):
depends on the context and,let's say, the quality of that
kind of, let's say, energeticpattern we call emotions.
And so, you know, we recentlywent through an election cycle
here in the US, so there was alot of fear that was explosive,
almost right, like, to keep thewater metaphor, it's almost like
avalanche, you know, or theiceberg sort of breaking and
(25:07):
splash, and a lot of people werereally freaking out.
And not as a criticism, I mean,that's just an observation, and
maybe they have every sort ofyou.
You know, everyone has everyright to feel what they feel, of
course, and the inquiry, though, then, is how much of these
fears are sort of projected oror due to the dissolution of an
(25:29):
expectation right, and it's very, very difficult.
So maybe there's a reminderthere, like in terms of
cultivation, is that can youhold multiple realities at the
same time and the whole?
You know, don't put all youreggs in one basket.
Maybe you can have five basketsright.
So if one gets crushed right,you can still make your omelets
right.
(25:51):
And so the back to the waterrelationship.
Is water an enemy?
And maybe, because you know,you had a childhood friend that
drowned right.
And so ever since then and whenyou went down to save them
actually this is a personalstory I had a trip to Mexico
with my sisters and the three ofus almost drowned, and so this
is a bit of autobiographical,and I could say forget water, I
(26:15):
don't need water, I'm going tojust hang out with wood element
or fire element, much safer.
But as you can see, this fearcan also relate to fire as well.
So my point is or, for me, whenI relate to fear, and I have as
strong fear, energy as the bestof them, and I try to use that
(26:36):
tremendous power, because fearis sort of very primal energy of
survival.
We wouldn't be here if ourancestors didn't feel fear.
But did that fear freeze them?
Or were they able to sort ofmelt, if you will, that fear
energy and channel it as apowerful current towards a
certain purpose?
And so that depends oncultivation, and you can say in
(26:58):
this context, your skill, orlack thereof, of swimming.
So if you're a surfer or a goodswimmer, then when you see
water you're like runningtowards it, right.
Or if you're a free diver thateven overcomes more, you can be
butt naked without any snorkelor scuba gear and you're fine.
You could dive into the depthsjust based on what you were born
(27:20):
with your birthday suit, if youwill.
So yeah, I would say fear.
Fear is actually something verystrong in me, and a lot of
people would look at me and say,oh, you don't seem like a very
fearful person, but I would sayI definitely froze when I was in
a younger time, even in thiskind of situation, to speak no,
(27:41):
I would fall mute very readilyand find it very difficult to
express myself and so I'veworked a lot around this winter
watcher emotion of fear, bydeveloping skills, by learning
to swim in these kind of scaryor unknown situations or, like
(28:01):
Belinda said, uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I love the invitation or the paradox between for me
at least embracing fire so thatI can be with darkness and in
some ways the heat of the firewill help me be more present to
the cool air of the night, notcreating these, like you said,
(28:24):
fear is not bad, it's like no.
How do you work with thatenergy and then find your way to
thaw it so you're not frozen?
Frozen, yeah, and I'm just kindof curious.
You know, this has been a notjust a tumultuous year, it's
been a tumultuous period, I feellike, for a while now, and so
(28:45):
even maybe taking a step backfrom the season of the year that
we're in, would you saymetaphorically, you know, maybe,
what season are we at?
Maybe even a more global level?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, I explored that question because I do astrology
too Chinese astrology or Taoastrology for individual human
beings.
But you can also look at thebirthday of a nation, like 1776,
whenever the constitution wasdrawn, and at this moment I
(29:19):
can't remember, I didn't delvethat deeply into it, but it's an
interesting question.
So you can use the birth chart.
Of course, I don't know whenthe planet was born, so I can't
speak at that level.
And I would just say then, backto this mapping of the seasonal
change, that once you have thisand this is, of course, my bias
, like why I think it's reallyimportant to have these
(29:40):
alchemical maps is and to tieback to what you said earlier,
omar is that it's like thatmovie everything everywhere all
at once, right, and?
But the mapping just gives youoptions, like even, like I said
about the differentintelligences, right, like
you're racking your headintelligence, your intellect,
your your pro and con analysisto try to figure it out, because
(30:01):
you think that's the only sortof element that you can work
with, and that's really it's themetal element to try to chop,
chop and try to cut throughthings, and you realize, oh, wow
, there's also a sort of a fireintelligence related to the
heart, right, which is this kindof intuitional intelligence,
and then, like I said earlier,this water intelligence.
That's your gut instinct.
(30:22):
And so now, if you can practice, first of all, take that as a
hypothesis and then apply it toyour life, like, yeah, that's
true, I felt like in somesituations I didn't figure it
out by thinking or overthinking,I actually just immediately
just chose something and, lo andbehold, most of the times when
I followed that first impression, that instinctual impulse, I
(30:43):
was correct.
And then so can you kind ofrecalibrate how you move through
this, and these are kind ofseasonal intelligences, if you
will.
Hopefully this is making sensethat I'm not just gonna just
like some people, right, like wesaid earlier.
Right, they want to be in thatkind of fire, expansion, growth,
right, which is kind of tiringto always be in that state.
(31:04):
Or even cancerous, right, if wethink about the body, if a cell
wants to always be in thatstate, that's cancer and that
kind of can metastasize.
And so what's going on?
Everything is going on.
I think in our 300,000 yearhistory as Homo sapiens, sapiens
, we've definitely hadsituations where we cut it kind
(31:25):
of close.
There were certain bottlenecksfor our species, where I don't
know how many were left.
So we have it in our ancestry,in our genetic and epigenetic
sort of heredity, to find thatcreativity and no matter what is
happening.
And this is again the advantageof being an alchemist is
because you have all thesedynamic maps and you learn to do
(31:47):
that seasonal living and, likeI said earlier, you also
cultivate a center which nevermoves, sort of like a pendulum.
Right when you're swinging apendulum you can't swing the,
the top part, you got to keepone part still, and then the,
the bottom, where the stone isor the crystal is, like that,
that kind of back and forth yinand yang say.
You're spinning like thatpendulum.
The pull of that kind ofmomentum actually helps you feel
(32:28):
the center a bit stronger.
I don't know if that makes sense.
So we're always going to haveelections and wars, more or less
inner and outer conflicts, andI found no final solution in the
seasons themselves.
The seasons are sort of thediverse changes.
The only real solution that Ifound which is permanent and
(32:48):
reliable and sustainable is inthe unconditional, is at the
center, at the center of being.
That, when you can identifymore with it, allows you not to
feel so insecure.
It's almost like you develop apart of you that says this to
you with confidence, which is Igot you.
(33:09):
Can you develop that part ofyou that improves to you right,
like a good friend in manydifferent, especially difficult
situations?
That they do got you.
But this part I'm talking aboutis you can call it your inner
self, or your higher self, ordeeper self.
That sort of self-trust is, Ithink, the most powerful
(33:30):
medicine to navigate the change.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I love it.
This is the season of comingback into our center always and
getting more and more practicedwith that, with all the
polarities that pull us out ofour center.
And it's so perfect howeverything just synchronizes,
because Omar and I have beentalking a lot about this idea of
fearless gratitude and, omar,you have such beautiful ways to
(33:56):
describe what that is.
We had a previous episode fromour collaboration with the
Democracy Center where we werereally unpacking that idea of
fearless gratitude and it doesmap to this winter season
element and I'm really excitedto invite all of our listeners
into the practice, into theexperience of leaning into
(34:17):
fearless gratitude as a way ofliving, as a way of coming back
into our center.
So we have two offerings comingup for this holiday season.
One is we created a fearlessgratitude medicine bundle which
has a candle to ignite ourinspiration around the good, the
(34:38):
bad, the ugly of life, justtrying to bring in that spirit
of gratitude to all of thesethings.
And a soothing tea to kind ofbring us back into the senses,
into our bodies, into thepresent moment.
And also the fearless gratitudenote cards, which are so
beautiful because there's thestories of the podcast that are
(35:01):
related to each of those themesand those are kind of the, I
would say, the darker shades ofgratitude blooming, you know,
like working with humility andvulnerability.
Those are not easy things.
Courage, it takes a lot ofself-friendship to even want to
sit at the table with yourselfand be with those emotions and
(35:21):
those themes.
Omar, do you want to speak alittle bit to the second
offering that we have, which isour online journey?
We're getting ready to startthat soon.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, we're really trying to curate.
We've created so much content.
I think we're at over 117podcast episodes.
We've had hundreds of gratitudecircles with thousands of
people, and so we feel likewe're at the stage now where
we're like how do we curate someof this content into an online
learning journey?
(35:52):
We invite you to sign up athello at gratitudebloomingcom,
to get on the wait list so thatyou'll be the first to know when
we're ready to release thisseries.
And I love, paul, what you saidabout just the unconditional.
I was just writing about thattoday and it was my wife who
(36:12):
first told me, like what doesunconditional love mean?
And we were in high school, sowe were just at puppy love.
But I remember asking her and Iwas like, well, what does
unconditional love mean?
And she says no stringsattached.
And so, just when no stringsare attached, it's not the logic
of love, it's not if you dothis, then I will do that.
(36:35):
I just love you because, rightas you are and as you said, I
got you, and so when you feelthat level of belonging, then
you can have that centeredness,right, like you can be that
anchor to the pendulum, you canbe that sort of center in the
eye of a storm, and so I just Ilove that, as we think about
(36:56):
seasonality, it is both aboutthis recognition that change is
constant, and there's also thisinvitation to find stillness in
that change.
Right, and how do we sort of be?
And that's what I think thissort of seasons just help us do
is to kind of keep in practice.
And so I know I'm lookingforward to this new series.
(37:17):
That medicine bundle soundsamazing and I know I'm going to
be lighting a weekly fire inthis upcoming winter season.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Thank you so much, dr Paul, for joining us, and how
can people find you if they wantto get their Tao astrology,
which I love?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And I just recently did myself it's incredible, just
to learn about yourself?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
elementally, how can people find out about you and
your work and practice with you?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
My website is daocentercom.
There we go with the center.
I'm on Center Street inBerkeley, california, so
D-A-O-C-E-N-T-E-Rcom and myemail is info at daocentercom,
so you can reach me there foryour questions or requests.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And for those of you that want to meet me and Paul in
person, we're going to be inBig Island, hawaii, for the New
Year's for a winter element,water element, sabbatical, so
we'd love to see some of youthere.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Beautiful.
Well, I'm certainly gratefulfor my friendship with each of
you and all the different waysthat we get to dance with each
other.
Wishing you all well.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Thank you.
Thank you, bye-bye.
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