March 24, 2025 • 33 mins
The world around us can feel chaotic and overwhelming, especially in the face of social and environmental challenges. In this episode, we delve into the value of finding sanctuary within ourselves—the importance of the "cave life"—and how it can lead to restorative growth. Our conversation invites you to explore the connections between solitude and community, embracing gratitude while acknowledging grief.
We reflect on the transition from winter to spring and how these seasonal changes may impact our mental wellness. Our hosts share personal stories of their own transformative experiences in nature and the significance of finding our inner sanctuary in a fast-paced world.
Listen in as we announce exciting upcoming retreats designed to foster connection with nature and one another. Each of these in-person gatherings are designed to grow our inner capacity to navigate the chaos of outer change.
Join us on the land this May in Mount Shasta, CA or this October in Hawaii by registering at: gratitudeblooming.com/retreats
We are reminded of the resilience we can learn from nature—specifically, the lessons embedded in trees that thrive despite harsh conditions. Join us as we navigate our innate wildness and uncover the pathways toward restoration and community.
Don’t miss this profound journey toward self-discovery and connection—subscribe, share, and leave us a review!
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Create an intentional practice with your own Gratitude Blooming card deck, notecards, candle and much much more at our shop at www.gratitudeblooming.com.
Learn more about our co-hosts and special guest for Season 4:
Co-host Belinda Liu | Hestia Retreat Centers
Co-host Omar Brownson | Trickster's Guide to Immortality on Substack
Special Guest Dr. Paul Wang | The Dao Center
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star rating and review. Your feedback is valuable to us and helps us grow.
Share your thoughts and comments by emailing us at hello@gratitudeblooming.com. We love hearing from our listeners!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello Belinda, hey Omar, I can't believe that it's
nearly spring.
Winter felt like a blip in theradar.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, this seasonal time, this year in particular,
has been so challenging.
I have literally wanted to stayin my cave and not come out.
That's the only way I've beenkeeping sane with all the
intensity of the world.
What about you?
How are you managing?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hashtag cave life.
I like it.
We went to Greece overThanksgiving break last year and
we actually slept in some cavesin Santorini and I hadn't slept
so well, and then, even comingback to the States, I slept for
like two straight weeks, and soI'm feeling you on the
(00:59):
importance of finding that cave.
And this year has just startedwith a bang on so many different
levels and obviously thepolitical environment, the fires
here in Los Angeles, the stormsacross the world, and we're
(01:19):
seeing it really even in thegratitude blooming community.
I think we've held probablyfour gratitude circles in
January and February alone, andreally from all different
communities.
You know, yesterday I was atthe Stoneview Nature Center as
part of its Black History Month,and so it was a combination of
(01:41):
community and nature, and thenlast week we recently just
hosted with folks inphilanthropy, and so really just
I think people are feeling theneed to come together.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And I love that you added this theme of grief with
the gratitude, omar, because Ifeel like sometimes we have this
misconception that gratitude isjust all the good stuff that
we're happy about and aregrateful for.
But really, especially withgratitude blooming, I mean it is
about leaning into thehardships of life and, like how
(02:17):
do we find gratitude in thestruggle?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Or to quote Charlie Brown, good grief, right, like,
really like.
You know, how do we look atgrief as this space of like
coming together, right andacknowledging all the turmoil
and the challenges.
You know, because I you know, Ifeel like in the circle that we
(02:41):
recently held, like half thepeople were in tears.
People lost their homes, peoplelost friends or family.
How do we create thesecontainers to process, to
alchemize all that is happening?
We offer the Gratitude BloomingCircles on a sliding range fee.
(03:02):
We offer the Gratitude BloomingCircles on a sliding range fee,
and so if your community isinterested in having us host a
Gratitude Circle, please reachout to us and we have a couple
more offerings.
I'm super excited about someupcoming collabs with Hestia.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, so one of the things I've been reflecting on
in my solo sabbatical is what isthe world need right now that
we can uniquely offer?
And I think one of those thingsis this connection, this
connection that we can only getwhen we're in person and in
nature.
And so Omar and I are excitedto offer two in-person retreats
(03:41):
this year for our community, tooffer two in-person retreats
this year for our community Onein May for Memorial Weekend in
Mount Shasta and another one inOctober on the Big Island of
Hawaii for us to really kind oftap into the seasonal shifts.
So those are kind of themidpoints of bigger seasonal
shifts, seasonal shifts and howcan we just receive and restore
(04:06):
together.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
This is so exciting A gratitude blooming retreat, our
first ones, and, just you know,I feel like this is the
culmination of all the onlinepractices that brought us
together during the pandemic andthen hosting the podcast and
then doing these in-personworkshops.
We've now done hundreds ofthese workshops with thousands
(04:29):
of people and now our ownretreat, and so look forward to
updates on our website.
You can probably go toGratitude Blooming Retreats
retreats and find moreinformation.
But, in the spirit of alchemy,we have Dr Paul Wong, who has
(04:50):
become a regular guest and he'sreally bringing his practices
the medical from acupuncture,the martial from Wing Chun, and
the mystical he just spent sometime in Indonesia, and the
mystical he just spent some timein Indonesia, so he is fresh
from his own trainings.
(05:10):
And so, you know, I think, aswe look at this new transition
of spring equinox which isreally when day and night are
even right, when there is thissort of balance before we move
into another cycle, you know,I'm excited to hear what Dr Paul
has to offer us today.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, thank you as always for having me join your
gratitude-blooming circle, andwhat I'd like to offer to the
community this time is from theChinese medicine or Chinese
cosmological, even Chineseastrological frame.
A lot of us know about year ofthe snake that's almost
mainstream knowledge and theelement associated with that is
(05:51):
yang fire.
So there's a 12-year cycle andthis is the year where it's yang
fire, and so just tocontextualize that, that's
acknowledged in sort of thelonger cycles, of course that
come from the more chinese ordaoist culture.
So it is what is yang fire?
Yang yang fire?
Just kind of radiant,illuminating, and even if you
(06:12):
associate it with a snake, right, that kind of awakening
ascending energy as well.
So that seems to be emphasizedand highlighted this year so far
, and it's it can be a painfulprocess, right, some of the
things that we're realizing, andalso the fire aspect of burning
away maybe old, old ideas, oldstructures, kind of um, it's
part of a creative destruction.
(06:32):
So that's the energy of theyear that's gonna be highlighted
through the next 12 months,right, starting chinese new
year's, like end of january,beginning of february, right
until next january, febru,february, and this particular
month or two months is woodenergy, right, so that kind of
adds fuel to the fire, if youwill like, spring is that energy
of initiation and activation?
(06:53):
And just to as a reminder,because we're talking about
balance too, we just mentionedequinox is the image of a tree,
and that's an ancient universalimage as well, right, and a
reminder of the rootedness thata tree cultivates.
So trees are tremendousteachers, especially here in
california the tallest trees,the biggest trees, the oldest
(07:15):
individual trees.
So connecting to the depths andconnecting to, to gravity,
connecting to mother earth,right, and that stability, that
that confers even the darkness,as we also simultaneously reach
up towards the solar energy andthe light, just finding ways to
balance the yin and yang, youcould say culturally there's a
(07:35):
lot of yang energy, so we haveto be even more strict of
infusing our days, evenscheduling it in time to go into
the yin where we can be quiet,or maybe make a formalize the
cave time every day, even ifit's just, you know, 10-15
minutes, just to for whetherit's solitude or going into
stillness, or in things likegoing into water or swimming, or
(08:00):
or even like a hot bath.
Those are kind of simple ways toadd energy into your life.
So just a reminder, yeah, ofthis time, astrologically, a lot
of energy, fire, expansive, andeven the spring energy adding
more momentum to that, and thenculturally, right, whatever
(08:21):
cycle that is, you know 250-yearcycles where empires rise and
fall, so there's that kind of alot of destructive energy, let's
say dismantling.
So we can't maybe control thatat that skill, but just a
reminder that we can infuse itinto our personal, interpersonal
, at least within our communitycircles, practices that are
(08:43):
attuning more to the yin energyour community circles, practices
that are attuning more to theyin energy.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I love that, paul.
I mean, I think what you'resaying kind of gives us
permission to claim thatpersonal power through going
inwards.
And, omar, you reminded mebecause I kept using this word
like retract, retract, retractnot retreat but retract and you
reminded me that that wordactually means to take back, and
I didn't realize that was whatI was actually.
It was very unconscious to dothat, but it felt like the only
(09:12):
thing I could do because there'sjust seems like so much out of
my personal power and controlright now and there's so much
suffering and my normal kind ofachiever mentality would be to
go in, get started, start doingthe work and alleviate some of
the suffering.
But it felt like this winter inparticular, it was like, no,
(09:34):
just honor the dormancy, honorthe need to go more deeply
inward and take back that space.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I love that.
You know the last two circlesthat we had.
So the one on Friday, we endedwith the grace card, right, and
just giving ourselves grace.
And my favorite definition ofgrace is that which is unadorned
, and it's just this sort ofreminder that our original state
is good enough, right, andsometimes we add all these
(10:05):
accoutrements that we thinkenhances things, but in reality
grace is just sort ofacknowledging that original
state.
And then yesterday at the NatureCenter, in a community center,
we pulled the community card asour closing card and that one is
represented by the bleedingheart and I always remember when
(10:29):
we pulled that card with thedoctor and he took the bleeding
heart medicine and he was aheart surgeon specifically, so
he actually works on hearts andthat's what the bleeding heart
medicine targets.
And so just there's somethingabout grace and community
medicine targets.
And so just there's somethingabout grace and community.
And so I'd be curious, Paul, aswe pull a gratitude blooming
(10:50):
card, what might be an intentionor question we would ask.
And lately I've been invitingfolks to think about a favorite
plant that they have or a plantthat they're familiar with.
So if you want to share aquestion or intention and speak
it to a plant that you arefamiliar with, and I'm going to
share my screen here so we canpull a graduate blooming card
(11:11):
together.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, the one that immediately came to mind.
I was actually hiking in SanFrancisco at Land's End and they
have these amazing windsweptcypresses and so I was feeling
into their ability to alchemizethe elements.
Right, it's kind of, in a way,harsh, right, windy and kind of
(11:34):
cold, and finding a way tothrive and creatively adapt.
If you've seen these cypresses,it's like these sculptures,
very serpentine actually, sokind of like woody snake energy,
and so it's not just like treeenergy in the sense of like
rimrod straight, but also beingable to adapt to the needs of
(11:55):
oneself or the community.
Right, after all, it's beenshown that any sort of grove or
trees that grow together, theirroots are in community.
Any sort of grove or trees thatgrow together, their roots are
in community and community andin the way they don't resist the
elements but very gracefullyjust uh, attune to them and kind
(12:19):
of alchemize them.
Each tree is unique in the waythat some are more kind of
angular, with like almost likeelbows to it, some are more
spiraling you a vertical way.
So it was a beautiful model, ina way archetype that exists in
nature, of the energy, I think,of this year that may be
required staying connected,staying rooted, connecting to
resilience, but also rootingtogether and then dancing with
(12:41):
the elements, rather than tryingto resist.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And so it might be an intention or question that you
would ask these windsweptcypress trees.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Like how the hell are you doing that?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
All right, that's perfect, that's the perfect
question.
How the hell are you doing that?
And so I'm going to scroll.
You know we have seven rows,six columns, and just let me
know what the sacrifice treeswant to tell us.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, I climbed a couple of them, so it was
amazing to feel into theirenergy of rooting and rising.
So let's pause right there atthat row.
And then we have six cards.
Let's do that one.
(13:28):
The fifth card.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
The cypress trees.
How the hell do you do that?
Card number 35.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Represented by the lilac, and when the artist
arlene kim suda illustrated thislilac it was in winter, and so
it it's a very sparse tree forthose are listening, and you
know.
So it's very woody in itsorientation because there's not
(13:57):
a lot of flowers on it.
So this is kind of coming outof winter or in winter, and the
prompt is we left this wild cardfor you to imagine your own
words of wisdom and gratitude.
So what do you think thecypress trees in responding to
your question, how the hell doyou do that?
What comes up for you when yousee this card?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
comes up for you when you see this card.
I take it literally right withthe idea of wild, right, and
there's this idea of rewilding.
You know, as homo sapienssapiens like used to be a
species that was wild, and nowwe live in these kind of overly
domesticated, basically, zoos.
Right, and very comfortable,but I think we've lost touch
with our, our nature, and sosome some measure of ferality,
right, I mean, these trees growlike near urban area, right, but
they've maintained theirwildness.
(14:48):
And sometimes I talk about thatin terms of, like, alchemical
cultivation, as not just, youknow, we talk about head
intelligence, intellect, or evenemotional intelligence,
intuition, but but there's anatural intelligence that I
think we, a lot of us, haveforgotten, that we've forgotten,
and so I think it's as simpleas just returning to doesn't
(15:09):
mean, you know, you run naked inthe, in the woods, but even
very simple things like we'vealready talked about, like
grounding barefoot, or, you know, touching, or going into the
waves if you can, or feeling,you know tapping into the, the
wildness of the breeze fromwhere it comes, I don't know,
where it flows, I don't know,but just tapping into that kind
(15:30):
of non-linear, right and uh,connective communal states where
we're kind of not just in thislinear analytical.
I think that's what would be agood way to summarize with the
Cypress, where we kind ofcommunicate.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well, when you were talking, Paul, I just had this
very primal feeling.
You know, it's like how do weaccess that primal instinct that
animals have so much Like theywill never lose that?
It's like humans, we overthinkand we forget very quickly that
primal instinct.
And I almost feel like thosecypress trees are saying you
(16:08):
pick your own adventure.
We're not trying to root andrise in cool ways that you see
us, we're just doing our thing.
And it feels like we're in atime of more questions than
answers than ever before.
And, omar, I remember I pickedthis card in our philanthropy
circle and it really to me feelslike too.
(16:31):
It's like validating the wintershedding and the dormancy and
the not trying to fill our timeand our energy with more things.
It feels like it's like let itbe barren right now.
It's it's not bad to not keepdoing, you know, let it emerge.
And so I'm really taking thisfor myself as a message of trust
(16:56):
, like if I don't feel likethere's something, you know,
that's inspiring me to moveforward, like not to move
forward right away.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
You know what I love about this too, with this
illustration in particular,which is just the branches and
the twigs coming off thebranches, is that this is grace,
right?
This is the tree unadorned,right?
The tree doesn't have thebeautiful leaves and the flowers
(17:25):
, it's just back to basics.
And so maybe that's also partof this.
Back to basics, like how do wejust remember, right in that
full sense of becoming a memberagain of the wild?
And just, you know, I alwayswhen I think about the wild, I
go back to the first time I wentto the Arctic Circle, which was
(17:48):
in Norway, and I was at thisWorld Wilderness Congress and it
was right when theenvironmental movement was
trying to engage young people.
So this was in the early 90s,and this woman was a 18 year old
and she gave the keynote speechbecause they wanted to
highlight younger people and shesaid the connection between
(18:09):
youth and the wilderness is thatboth are uncultivated, right.
And so you know, I guess maybe,paul, that's like kind of a
great question for you, becauseyou are in the business, in some
ways, of cultivating, right, ofcultivating these practices.
But what is this card trying toremind us of the power of being
uncultivated?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean the model for cultivation, right,
sometimes I use the word cultureand I use like probiotic
culture versus antibioticculture, meaning enhancing life,
at least from Taoist frame, isnature.
So sometimes I say, nurturenature culture.
That's what we're cultivating.
Like you said, a remembrance ofour nature.
A lot of our problems are due to, like you said, overthinking or
(18:52):
over-contriving.
A lot of our issues areman-made problems, if you will,
and a lot of the cultivation isa return to simplicity, right
from the 10 000 things to the,you know, the three, to the two,
to the one and uh, going intothe being state, which is how
trees are.
They're not, they're likestressing or worrying about, you
know, the rain, or they're justcompletely being nature as
(19:16):
nature, and so that's probablythe hardest thing actually for
us, you know, with ai and allthese kind of you know, like you
know, and even even like we'redoing now, right, sometimes the
linguistic you know or theverbosity of things kind of gets
in the way.
So so that's calling in maybesilence and stillness and
undoing, and the problems maynaturally resolve itself.
(19:37):
Right, sometimes, you know,trying to solve problems is
another doing.
Maybe the solution, the remedyis actually being.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So that's I mean, that's in some ways what,
belinda, you know you startedtalking about, right with your
cave life is like, hey, let meretract, let me go back in, let
me sort of dwell in this spacethat allows me to regroup, right
(20:04):
.
And so there's this likeobviously, frame, like rest, is
resistance now, but I reallyliked your take on this, belinda
, which is resistance feels likeyou're just trying to like hold
ground right, right, whereasretraction is like there's a
taking back, there's areclaiming that's involved.
(20:25):
And so what is that?
Maybe in this, like natureversus nurture this culture
versus nature framing, what isit that we're having to take
back in ways that areoveranalyzed minds?
(20:46):
You know you spoke a little bitabout silence, but I feel like
there's something morefundamental that you're inviting
us to really revisit, right,like maybe there's some basic
assumptions that we thought werefoundational, that we thought
were foundational, and maybethere's something even before
silence, like to actuallyappreciate silence.
Maybe there's something elsethat we need to actually process
(21:09):
and digest to even appreciatesilence.
Wow, that's very deep.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I think everything arises from even the words that
we're sharing here.
The thoughts that we're sharingarises from a ground right,
whether you call it silence orwhether you call it being, we
can call it whatever right.
In a way it's like it'swordless right, it's beyond the
names of it.
But experientially, and againBelinda shared in her own way,
right Taking a kind of maybejust taking time off right To go
(21:41):
somewhere where you can just bewith yourself, be with your own
, just ask yourself what'spresent, where am I right or
even who am I.
So you can call it what youwant silence, stillness or space
, but it's just intentionalright, seeking a kind of remedy,
antidote, in a way tocounterbalance, like any moment
right, 24 hours a day, like youcan tap into whatever you want
to call the opposite of silence,noise and and be immediately
(22:05):
saturated right.
A lot of people talk aboutnervous system regulation right
or or fight or flight,sympathetic, and so one of my
primary ways is is to to tapinto into breath.
Right, you could say that a lotof people are breathing
unnaturally, in the sense or ina state that is inducing and
(22:25):
aggravating the issue.
Let's say short and shallowbreathing by breathing deeper,
right.
I use the mantra even when Iteach kids in low, out slow.
That usually is enough, if youcan.
Of course, the more youpractice it, the more potent it
becomes right.
In the beginning it may takeyou, you know, 20 minutes before
you activate your, yourparasympathetic nervous system,
(22:48):
inhaling as deeply as you can toyour center of being usually
that's more like near your navelarea and then slowly and
intentionally releasing with theexhale the out slow part,
usually clear some of that,let's say adornments or
accoutrements, which are oftenmaybe conceptual or just part of
(23:08):
that overthinking phase, to getunderneath those superficial
waves and connect more to yournature, the grounded nature of
being.
So, whatever you call it.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I love that reminder of like going to the, the
essence of life, which isultimately our breath.
Right, like that is thereminder that we are here and we
are still alive and we arecontinuing to feed our aliveness
.
And, yeah, it would be great toactually practice that
(23:39):
conscious breathing with thesong of gratitude blooming for
wildness.
How does that sound, linda is?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
that I would say it's breath and ground right, it's
levity and gravity right as what?
The containers, the boundariesor the edges.
And yeah, as I pull up thissong, there's something about.
(24:12):
You said this grove of cypresstrees.
Paul was that a place calledland's end.
Paul was at a place calledLand's End.
And so there's something aboutwhat is that edge right that we
have and why maybe it'simportant to find our edges.
And then, at that edge, what Ihear you and this is sort of the
(24:34):
gratitude blooming way I wouldsay is to pause, notice and then
feel right, like to take amoment to really kind of
appreciate where you're at bynoticing what's there, because
you've paused to actually notice.
And then when you do that, thenyou can actually sort of feel
(24:59):
into like oh, am I distracted oram I?
You know how am I sort ofconnecting to my breath or the
ground around me?
So I'm going to pick the tigerlily wild card that feels like a
sister card to the lilac.
I love you.
(26:58):
So.
So, just listening to this wildcard, how was pausing?
What did you notice?
What did you feel?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
really appreciated the simplicity of the stroking
of the guitar like it.
It's not a very complex tunebut almost in the simplicity of
it you can kind of feel it morestrongly, like I felt like it
was like, you know, like alittle gentle caress or like a a
(27:35):
little gentle caress or like aholding feeling.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
I felt those waves too, Speaking of the cypress,
the wind element, as it kind ofplucked the branches Also.
It was near the shore, so alsothe waves.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
so these multiple frequencies, kind of felt that
in the strumming.
It's been amazing.
We got to collaborate withAriel Lowe, who is the artist
behind the music.
They just won a Grammy firstAsian American transgender woman
(28:07):
to do so, and it was in thesocial justice category and so I
just really appreciate theopportunity for us to just pause
, to notice, to feel and to feelthat strumming right, whether
it's the strumming of the wind,the strumming of our fingers,
just the strumming of life, likeif we are the strings, like how
(28:30):
are we being strummed as wemove into spring, where there's
going to be even more movementMaybe?
You know, the invitation for usis to just bring some awareness
of, like, what is moving usright now and what do we want to
move us and what do we not wantto move us.
And so when do we sort ofintentionally take a step back
(28:53):
and when do we intentionallytake a step forward?
Are there any other things thatare moving you right now?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
before we close, I'm just grateful for the
opportunity for us to pausetogether every month and just
return back to our naturalrhythm, which is not so natural
to do.
So I feel like that's what I'mtaking away is reclamation of
(29:21):
the pace that I need to move inin order to sustain everything
sustain my life, sustain myenergy, sustain my relationships
.
I feel like maybe that's themessage from nature is like to
really be a you know honoring ofthat pace, like in Shasta right
(29:45):
now.
We just had a team meeting andwe've had so much snow more than
we've ever had and it's allstarted to melt, and our land
steward there was justdescribing how it felt like this
water was just being receivedby the land like a sponge and
that maybe the land just neededthat much water to nourish it.
(30:08):
And there has been a bigdormancy from all that snow and
and not to question it or judgeit like it's bad that there was
so much snow or there's so muchice, but just to just honor that
that was what this winter cyclewanted to be and it was
different from other winters.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That makes me feel into.
I was tuning in and the wordsort of reserve and resource
came in, and if you think aboutthe snow and ice, it is kind of
a reservoir of potential energythat gets liquefied in the
warmer seasons.
So that's what I'm taking as mymain reminder is cultivating,
(30:51):
continue to cultivate and retainmuch of what I cultivate.
Don't feel bad about keeping itas potential energy rather than
always having to.
You know, spend it, spend it,spend it.
So I go by the 80 20 rule, somaybe retain reserve 80 of what
I I cultivate, but also becareful about that 20% that I
(31:14):
then actualize or activate askinetic energy and be more
careful about what I curate,spending that on things that are
meaningful and beneficial tomyself and my community.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
There's this song called Slow Up by Jacob Banks
that I've been playing on repeatand the opening lines are what
I've learned from the ocean hardto dance and rejoice in the
motion.
Let the sun have its moment,the moon will come.
And that has just given me justsuch trust.
(31:51):
The moon will come, so let thesun have its moment.
And so my friendly sort ofamendment to you, dr Paul Wong,
is let us both cultivate and letus uncultivate, right, let us
sort of reclaim some of thatwild as a practice, because the
(32:11):
wild knows that the sun willhave its moment and the moon
will come.
Well, I appreciate getting topractice with you, to cultivate
with you, to like figure outthese things with you and and
super excited that we're goingto get to expand the different
ways with the circles and nowretreats.
(32:34):
There's just lots of ways thatthe cards that you know are
behind the gratitude bloomingcard deck can come alive.
Appreciate you joining us onthis journey.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, stay wild cheers, bye-bye, thank you.
Hello Belinda, hey Omar, I can't believe that it's
nearly spring.
Winter felt like a blip in theradar.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, this seasonal time, this year in particular,
has been so challenging.
I have literally wanted to stayin my cave and not come out.
That's the only way I've beenkeeping sane with all the
intensity of the world.
What about you?
How are you managing?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hashtag cave life.
I like it.
We went to Greece overThanksgiving break last year and
we actually slept in some cavesin Santorini and I hadn't slept
so well, and then, even comingback to the States, I slept for
like two straight weeks, and soI'm feeling you on the
(00:59):
importance of finding that cave.
And this year has just startedwith a bang on so many different
levels and obviously thepolitical environment, the fires
here in Los Angeles, the stormsacross the world, and we're
(01:19):
seeing it really even in thegratitude blooming community.
I think we've held probablyfour gratitude circles in
January and February alone, andreally from all different
communities.
You know, yesterday I was atthe Stoneview Nature Center as
part of its Black History Month,and so it was a combination of
(01:41):
community and nature, and thenlast week we recently just
hosted with folks inphilanthropy, and so really just
I think people are feeling theneed to come together.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And I love that you added this theme of grief with
the gratitude, omar, because Ifeel like sometimes we have this
misconception that gratitude isjust all the good stuff that
we're happy about and aregrateful for.
But really, especially withgratitude blooming, I mean it is
about leaning into thehardships of life and, like how
(02:17):
do we find gratitude in thestruggle?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Or to quote Charlie Brown, good grief, right, like,
really like.
You know, how do we look atgrief as this space of like
coming together, right andacknowledging all the turmoil
and the challenges.
You know, because I you know, Ifeel like in the circle that we
(02:41):
recently held, like half thepeople were in tears.
People lost their homes, peoplelost friends or family.
How do we create thesecontainers to process, to
alchemize all that is happening?
We offer the Gratitude BloomingCircles on a sliding range fee.
(03:02):
We offer the Gratitude BloomingCircles on a sliding range fee,
and so if your community isinterested in having us host a
Gratitude Circle, please reachout to us and we have a couple
more offerings.
I'm super excited about someupcoming collabs with Hestia.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, so one of the things I've been reflecting on
in my solo sabbatical is what isthe world need right now that
we can uniquely offer?
And I think one of those thingsis this connection, this
connection that we can only getwhen we're in person and in
nature.
And so Omar and I are excitedto offer two in-person retreats
(03:41):
this year for our community, tooffer two in-person retreats
this year for our community Onein May for Memorial Weekend in
Mount Shasta and another one inOctober on the Big Island of
Hawaii for us to really kind oftap into the seasonal shifts.
So those are kind of themidpoints of bigger seasonal
shifts, seasonal shifts and howcan we just receive and restore
(04:06):
together.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
This is so exciting A gratitude blooming retreat, our
first ones, and, just you know,I feel like this is the
culmination of all the onlinepractices that brought us
together during the pandemic andthen hosting the podcast and
then doing these in-personworkshops.
We've now done hundreds ofthese workshops with thousands
(04:29):
of people and now our ownretreat, and so look forward to
updates on our website.
You can probably go toGratitude Blooming Retreats
retreats and find moreinformation.
But, in the spirit of alchemy,we have Dr Paul Wong, who has
(04:50):
become a regular guest and he'sreally bringing his practices
the medical from acupuncture,the martial from Wing Chun, and
the mystical he just spent sometime in Indonesia, and the
mystical he just spent some timein Indonesia, so he is fresh
from his own trainings.
(05:10):
And so, you know, I think, aswe look at this new transition
of spring equinox which isreally when day and night are
even right, when there is thissort of balance before we move
into another cycle, you know,I'm excited to hear what Dr Paul
has to offer us today.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, thank you as always for having me join your
gratitude-blooming circle, andwhat I'd like to offer to the
community this time is from theChinese medicine or Chinese
cosmological, even Chineseastrological frame.
A lot of us know about year ofthe snake that's almost
mainstream knowledge and theelement associated with that is
(05:51):
yang fire.
So there's a 12-year cycle andthis is the year where it's yang
fire, and so just tocontextualize that, that's
acknowledged in sort of thelonger cycles, of course that
come from the more chinese ordaoist culture.
So it is what is yang fire?
Yang yang fire?
Just kind of radiant,illuminating, and even if you
(06:12):
associate it with a snake, right, that kind of awakening
ascending energy as well.
So that seems to be emphasizedand highlighted this year so far
, and it's it can be a painfulprocess, right, some of the
things that we're realizing, andalso the fire aspect of burning
away maybe old, old ideas, oldstructures, kind of um, it's
part of a creative destruction.
(06:32):
So that's the energy of theyear that's gonna be highlighted
through the next 12 months,right, starting chinese new
year's, like end of january,beginning of february, right
until next january, febru,february, and this particular
month or two months is woodenergy, right, so that kind of
adds fuel to the fire, if youwill like, spring is that energy
of initiation and activation?
(06:53):
And just to as a reminder,because we're talking about
balance too, we just mentionedequinox is the image of a tree,
and that's an ancient universalimage as well, right, and a
reminder of the rootedness thata tree cultivates.
So trees are tremendousteachers, especially here in
california the tallest trees,the biggest trees, the oldest
(07:15):
individual trees.
So connecting to the depths andconnecting to, to gravity,
connecting to mother earth,right, and that stability, that
that confers even the darkness,as we also simultaneously reach
up towards the solar energy andthe light, just finding ways to
balance the yin and yang, youcould say culturally there's a
(07:35):
lot of yang energy, so we haveto be even more strict of
infusing our days, evenscheduling it in time to go into
the yin where we can be quiet,or maybe make a formalize the
cave time every day, even ifit's just, you know, 10-15
minutes, just to for whetherit's solitude or going into
stillness, or in things likegoing into water or swimming, or
(08:00):
or even like a hot bath.
Those are kind of simple ways toadd energy into your life.
So just a reminder, yeah, ofthis time, astrologically, a lot
of energy, fire, expansive, andeven the spring energy adding
more momentum to that, and thenculturally, right, whatever
(08:21):
cycle that is, you know 250-yearcycles where empires rise and
fall, so there's that kind of alot of destructive energy, let's
say dismantling.
So we can't maybe control thatat that skill, but just a
reminder that we can infuse itinto our personal, interpersonal
, at least within our communitycircles, practices that are
(08:43):
attuning more to the yin energyour community circles, practices
that are attuning more to theyin energy.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I love that, paul.
I mean, I think what you'resaying kind of gives us
permission to claim thatpersonal power through going
inwards.
And, omar, you reminded mebecause I kept using this word
like retract, retract, retractnot retreat but retract and you
reminded me that that wordactually means to take back, and
I didn't realize that was whatI was actually.
It was very unconscious to dothat, but it felt like the only
(09:12):
thing I could do because there'sjust seems like so much out of
my personal power and controlright now and there's so much
suffering and my normal kind ofachiever mentality would be to
go in, get started, start doingthe work and alleviate some of
the suffering.
But it felt like this winter inparticular, it was like, no,
(09:34):
just honor the dormancy, honorthe need to go more deeply
inward and take back that space.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I love that.
You know the last two circlesthat we had.
So the one on Friday, we endedwith the grace card, right, and
just giving ourselves grace.
And my favorite definition ofgrace is that which is unadorned
, and it's just this sort ofreminder that our original state
is good enough, right, andsometimes we add all these
(10:05):
accoutrements that we thinkenhances things, but in reality
grace is just sort ofacknowledging that original
state.
And then yesterday at the NatureCenter, in a community center,
we pulled the community card asour closing card and that one is
represented by the bleedingheart and I always remember when
(10:29):
we pulled that card with thedoctor and he took the bleeding
heart medicine and he was aheart surgeon specifically, so
he actually works on hearts andthat's what the bleeding heart
medicine targets.
And so just there's somethingabout grace and community
medicine targets.
And so just there's somethingabout grace and community.
And so I'd be curious, Paul, aswe pull a gratitude blooming
(10:50):
card, what might be an intentionor question we would ask.
And lately I've been invitingfolks to think about a favorite
plant that they have or a plantthat they're familiar with.
So if you want to share aquestion or intention and speak
it to a plant that you arefamiliar with, and I'm going to
share my screen here so we canpull a graduate blooming card
(11:11):
together.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, the one that immediately came to mind.
I was actually hiking in SanFrancisco at Land's End and they
have these amazing windsweptcypresses and so I was feeling
into their ability to alchemizethe elements.
Right, it's kind of, in a way,harsh, right, windy and kind of
(11:34):
cold, and finding a way tothrive and creatively adapt.
If you've seen these cypresses,it's like these sculptures,
very serpentine actually, sokind of like woody snake energy,
and so it's not just like treeenergy in the sense of like
rimrod straight, but also beingable to adapt to the needs of
(11:55):
oneself or the community.
Right, after all, it's beenshown that any sort of grove or
trees that grow together, theirroots are in community.
Any sort of grove or trees thatgrow together, their roots are
in community and community andin the way they don't resist the
elements but very gracefullyjust uh, attune to them and kind
(12:19):
of alchemize them.
Each tree is unique in the waythat some are more kind of
angular, with like almost likeelbows to it, some are more
spiraling you a vertical way.
So it was a beautiful model, ina way archetype that exists in
nature, of the energy, I think,of this year that may be
required staying connected,staying rooted, connecting to
resilience, but also rootingtogether and then dancing with
(12:41):
the elements, rather than tryingto resist.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And so it might be an intention or question that you
would ask these windsweptcypress trees.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Like how the hell are you doing that?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
All right, that's perfect, that's the perfect
question.
How the hell are you doing that?
And so I'm going to scroll.
You know we have seven rows,six columns, and just let me
know what the sacrifice treeswant to tell us.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, I climbed a couple of them, so it was
amazing to feel into theirenergy of rooting and rising.
So let's pause right there atthat row.
And then we have six cards.
Let's do that one.
(13:28):
The fifth card.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
The cypress trees.
How the hell do you do that?
Card number 35.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Represented by the lilac, and when the artist
arlene kim suda illustrated thislilac it was in winter, and so
it it's a very sparse tree forthose are listening, and you
know.
So it's very woody in itsorientation because there's not
(13:57):
a lot of flowers on it.
So this is kind of coming outof winter or in winter, and the
prompt is we left this wild cardfor you to imagine your own
words of wisdom and gratitude.
So what do you think thecypress trees in responding to
your question, how the hell doyou do that?
What comes up for you when yousee this card?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
comes up for you when you see this card.
I take it literally right withthe idea of wild, right, and
there's this idea of rewilding.
You know, as homo sapienssapiens like used to be a
species that was wild, and nowwe live in these kind of overly
domesticated, basically, zoos.
Right, and very comfortable,but I think we've lost touch
with our, our nature, and sosome some measure of ferality,
right, I mean, these trees growlike near urban area, right, but
they've maintained theirwildness.
(14:48):
And sometimes I talk about thatin terms of, like, alchemical
cultivation, as not just, youknow, we talk about head
intelligence, intellect, or evenemotional intelligence,
intuition, but but there's anatural intelligence that I
think we, a lot of us, haveforgotten, that we've forgotten,
and so I think it's as simpleas just returning to doesn't
(15:09):
mean, you know, you run naked inthe, in the woods, but even
very simple things like we'vealready talked about, like
grounding barefoot, or, you know, touching, or going into the
waves if you can, or feeling,you know tapping into the, the
wildness of the breeze fromwhere it comes, I don't know,
where it flows, I don't know,but just tapping into that kind
(15:30):
of non-linear, right and uh,connective communal states where
we're kind of not just in thislinear analytical.
I think that's what would be agood way to summarize with the
Cypress, where we kind ofcommunicate.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well, when you were talking, Paul, I just had this
very primal feeling.
You know, it's like how do weaccess that primal instinct that
animals have so much Like theywill never lose that?
It's like humans, we overthinkand we forget very quickly that
primal instinct.
And I almost feel like thosecypress trees are saying you
(16:08):
pick your own adventure.
We're not trying to root andrise in cool ways that you see
us, we're just doing our thing.
And it feels like we're in atime of more questions than
answers than ever before.
And, omar, I remember I pickedthis card in our philanthropy
circle and it really to me feelslike too.
(16:31):
It's like validating the wintershedding and the dormancy and
the not trying to fill our timeand our energy with more things.
It feels like it's like let itbe barren right now.
It's it's not bad to not keepdoing, you know, let it emerge.
And so I'm really taking thisfor myself as a message of trust
(16:56):
, like if I don't feel likethere's something, you know,
that's inspiring me to moveforward, like not to move
forward right away.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
You know what I love about this too, with this
illustration in particular,which is just the branches and
the twigs coming off thebranches, is that this is grace,
right?
This is the tree unadorned,right?
The tree doesn't have thebeautiful leaves and the flowers
(17:25):
, it's just back to basics.
And so maybe that's also partof this.
Back to basics, like how do wejust remember, right in that
full sense of becoming a memberagain of the wild?
And just, you know, I alwayswhen I think about the wild, I
go back to the first time I wentto the Arctic Circle, which was
(17:48):
in Norway, and I was at thisWorld Wilderness Congress and it
was right when theenvironmental movement was
trying to engage young people.
So this was in the early 90s,and this woman was a 18 year old
and she gave the keynote speechbecause they wanted to
highlight younger people and shesaid the connection between
(18:09):
youth and the wilderness is thatboth are uncultivated, right.
And so you know, I guess maybe,paul, that's like kind of a
great question for you, becauseyou are in the business, in some
ways, of cultivating, right, ofcultivating these practices.
But what is this card trying toremind us of the power of being
uncultivated?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean the model for cultivation, right,
sometimes I use the word cultureand I use like probiotic
culture versus antibioticculture, meaning enhancing life,
at least from Taoist frame, isnature.
So sometimes I say, nurturenature culture.
That's what we're cultivating.
Like you said, a remembrance ofour nature.
A lot of our problems are due to, like you said, overthinking or
(18:52):
over-contriving.
A lot of our issues areman-made problems, if you will,
and a lot of the cultivation isa return to simplicity, right
from the 10 000 things to the,you know, the three, to the two,
to the one and uh, going intothe being state, which is how
trees are.
They're not, they're likestressing or worrying about, you
know, the rain, or they're justcompletely being nature as
(19:16):
nature, and so that's probablythe hardest thing actually for
us, you know, with ai and allthese kind of you know, like you
know, and even even like we'redoing now, right, sometimes the
linguistic you know or theverbosity of things kind of gets
in the way.
So so that's calling in maybesilence and stillness and
undoing, and the problems maynaturally resolve itself.
(19:37):
Right, sometimes, you know,trying to solve problems is
another doing.
Maybe the solution, the remedyis actually being.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So that's I mean, that's in some ways what,
belinda, you know you startedtalking about, right with your
cave life is like, hey, let meretract, let me go back in, let
me sort of dwell in this spacethat allows me to regroup, right
(20:04):
.
And so there's this likeobviously, frame, like rest, is
resistance now, but I reallyliked your take on this, belinda
, which is resistance feels likeyou're just trying to like hold
ground right, right, whereasretraction is like there's a
taking back, there's areclaiming that's involved.
(20:25):
And so what is that?
Maybe in this, like natureversus nurture this culture
versus nature framing, what isit that we're having to take
back in ways that areoveranalyzed minds?
(20:46):
You know you spoke a little bitabout silence, but I feel like
there's something morefundamental that you're inviting
us to really revisit, right,like maybe there's some basic
assumptions that we thought werefoundational, that we thought
were foundational, and maybethere's something even before
silence, like to actuallyappreciate silence.
Maybe there's something elsethat we need to actually process
(21:09):
and digest to even appreciatesilence.
Wow, that's very deep.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I think everything arises from even the words that
we're sharing here.
The thoughts that we're sharingarises from a ground right,
whether you call it silence orwhether you call it being, we
can call it whatever right.
In a way it's like it'swordless right, it's beyond the
names of it.
But experientially, and againBelinda shared in her own way,
right Taking a kind of maybejust taking time off right To go
(21:41):
somewhere where you can just bewith yourself, be with your own
, just ask yourself what'spresent, where am I right or
even who am I.
So you can call it what youwant silence, stillness or space
, but it's just intentionalright, seeking a kind of remedy,
antidote, in a way tocounterbalance, like any moment
right, 24 hours a day, like youcan tap into whatever you want
to call the opposite of silence,noise and and be immediately
(22:05):
saturated right.
A lot of people talk aboutnervous system regulation right
or or fight or flight,sympathetic, and so one of my
primary ways is is to to tapinto into breath.
Right, you could say that a lotof people are breathing
unnaturally, in the sense or ina state that is inducing and
(22:25):
aggravating the issue.
Let's say short and shallowbreathing by breathing deeper,
right.
I use the mantra even when Iteach kids in low, out slow.
That usually is enough, if youcan.
Of course, the more youpractice it, the more potent it
becomes right.
In the beginning it may takeyou, you know, 20 minutes before
you activate your, yourparasympathetic nervous system,
(22:48):
inhaling as deeply as you can toyour center of being usually
that's more like near your navelarea and then slowly and
intentionally releasing with theexhale the out slow part,
usually clear some of that,let's say adornments or
accoutrements, which are oftenmaybe conceptual or just part of
(23:08):
that overthinking phase, to getunderneath those superficial
waves and connect more to yournature, the grounded nature of
being.
So, whatever you call it.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I love that reminder of like going to the, the
essence of life, which isultimately our breath.
Right, like that is thereminder that we are here and we
are still alive and we arecontinuing to feed our aliveness
.
And, yeah, it would be great toactually practice that
(23:39):
conscious breathing with thesong of gratitude blooming for
wildness.
How does that sound, linda is?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
that I would say it's breath and ground right, it's
levity and gravity right as what?
The containers, the boundariesor the edges.
And yeah, as I pull up thissong, there's something about.
(24:12):
You said this grove of cypresstrees.
Paul was that a place calledland's end.
Paul was at a place calledLand's End.
And so there's something aboutwhat is that edge right that we
have and why maybe it'simportant to find our edges.
And then, at that edge, what Ihear you and this is sort of the
(24:34):
gratitude blooming way I wouldsay is to pause, notice and then
feel right, like to take amoment to really kind of
appreciate where you're at bynoticing what's there, because
you've paused to actually notice.
And then when you do that, thenyou can actually sort of feel
(24:59):
into like oh, am I distracted oram I?
You know how am I sort ofconnecting to my breath or the
ground around me?
So I'm going to pick the tigerlily wild card that feels like a
sister card to the lilac.
I love you.
(26:58):
So.
So, just listening to this wildcard, how was pausing?
What did you notice?
What did you feel?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
really appreciated the simplicity of the stroking
of the guitar like it.
It's not a very complex tunebut almost in the simplicity of
it you can kind of feel it morestrongly, like I felt like it
was like, you know, like alittle gentle caress or like a a
(27:35):
little gentle caress or like aholding feeling.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
I felt those waves too, Speaking of the cypress,
the wind element, as it kind ofplucked the branches Also.
It was near the shore, so alsothe waves.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
so these multiple frequencies, kind of felt that
in the strumming.
It's been amazing.
We got to collaborate withAriel Lowe, who is the artist
behind the music.
They just won a Grammy firstAsian American transgender woman
(28:07):
to do so, and it was in thesocial justice category and so I
just really appreciate theopportunity for us to just pause
, to notice, to feel and to feelthat strumming right, whether
it's the strumming of the wind,the strumming of our fingers,
just the strumming of life, likeif we are the strings, like how
(28:30):
are we being strummed as wemove into spring, where there's
going to be even more movementMaybe?
You know, the invitation for usis to just bring some awareness
of, like, what is moving usright now and what do we want to
move us and what do we not wantto move us.
And so when do we sort ofintentionally take a step back
(28:53):
and when do we intentionallytake a step forward?
Are there any other things thatare moving you right now?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
before we close, I'm just grateful for the
opportunity for us to pausetogether every month and just
return back to our naturalrhythm, which is not so natural
to do.
So I feel like that's what I'mtaking away is reclamation of
(29:21):
the pace that I need to move inin order to sustain everything
sustain my life, sustain myenergy, sustain my relationships
.
I feel like maybe that's themessage from nature is like to
really be a you know honoring ofthat pace, like in Shasta right
(29:45):
now.
We just had a team meeting andwe've had so much snow more than
we've ever had and it's allstarted to melt, and our land
steward there was justdescribing how it felt like this
water was just being receivedby the land like a sponge and
that maybe the land just neededthat much water to nourish it.
(30:08):
And there has been a bigdormancy from all that snow and
and not to question it or judgeit like it's bad that there was
so much snow or there's so muchice, but just to just honor that
that was what this winter cyclewanted to be and it was
different from other winters.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That makes me feel into.
I was tuning in and the wordsort of reserve and resource
came in, and if you think aboutthe snow and ice, it is kind of
a reservoir of potential energythat gets liquefied in the
warmer seasons.
So that's what I'm taking as mymain reminder is cultivating,
(30:51):
continue to cultivate and retainmuch of what I cultivate.
Don't feel bad about keeping itas potential energy rather than
always having to.
You know, spend it, spend it,spend it.
So I go by the 80 20 rule, somaybe retain reserve 80 of what
I I cultivate, but also becareful about that 20% that I
(31:14):
then actualize or activate askinetic energy and be more
careful about what I curate,spending that on things that are
meaningful and beneficial tomyself and my community.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
There's this song called Slow Up by Jacob Banks
that I've been playing on repeatand the opening lines are what
I've learned from the ocean hardto dance and rejoice in the
motion.
Let the sun have its moment,the moon will come.
And that has just given me justsuch trust.
(31:51):
The moon will come, so let thesun have its moment.
And so my friendly sort ofamendment to you, dr Paul Wong,
is let us both cultivate and letus uncultivate, right, let us
sort of reclaim some of thatwild as a practice, because the
(32:11):
wild knows that the sun willhave its moment and the moon
will come.
Well, I appreciate getting topractice with you, to cultivate
with you, to like figure outthese things with you and and
super excited that we're goingto get to expand the different
ways with the circles and nowretreats.
(32:34):
There's just lots of ways thatthe cards that you know are
behind the gratitude bloomingcard deck can come alive.
Appreciate you joining us onthis journey.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, stay wild cheers, bye-bye, thank you.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!