September 16, 2025 • 24 mins
Discover mindful ways to transition into fall with Belinda, Omar, and Dr. Paul. This episode explores harvest wisdom, Daoist teachings, and gentle practices for balance, gratitude, and stress relief this autumn season.
From coffee trees ripening on the Big Island to the Daoist teachings of the metal element, this episode invites us to notice the signals of what is ready to be gathered and what needs to be released. Together, we reflect on gentleness as a practice: how to exhale, soften, and discern with care rather than force. Join us in welcoming fall with balance, gratitude, and the question—what does a gentle harvest look like in your life?
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Learn more about our co-hosts and special guest for Season 4:
Co-host Belinda Liu | Hestia Retreat Centers
Co-host Omar Brownson | Trickster's Guide to Immortality on Substack
Special Guest Dr. Paul Wang | The Dao Center
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Omar (00:02):
Hello, Belinda.
Hey, Omar.
My kids are back in school,which can only mean one thing
that summer is over and fall hasjust begun, which is this
month's theme.
But before we jump into thetheme of harvest and fall, I
(00:27):
think we have like a shout outto give to Elizabeth, a
professor at SyracuseUniversity.
Belinda (00:32):
Yeah, literally, I opened up my computer one
morning and somebody had boughta written us an email.
And Elizabeth is a professor ofentrepreneurship.
And she literally found usthrough chat GBT asking about a
specific activity to use withher students around
(00:54):
neuroplasticity, gratitude andentrepreneurial mindset.
Omar (00:58):
How awesome is that?
I think artificial intelligenceis clearly very smart if it's
recommending gratitude.
Speaker 01 (01:05):
And so mindful.
Speaker 02 (01:06):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, it's justbeautiful all the different ways
that people are findinggratitude blooming.
I was just thinking about justin the four years that we've
been doing this podcast and fromthe pandemic and moving online
to blockchain technology andNFTs and now artificial
(01:27):
intelligence.
It's just in a fairly shorttime period, some pretty big
changes.
And so these seasons and justbeing mindful of what our bodies
are going through is just soimportant.
And, you know, we're gearing upfor the fall, which again,
gratitude is going to be top ofmind for folks around the
holidays and Thanksgiving.
(01:48):
And we're going to do somethingspecial this year, which is
create a raffle.
And Arlene, the artist behindall the art, is going to be
donating one of her original artpieces.
And it's this new watercolorseries.
I'm so excited.
I'm going to buy a ton ofraffles.
And we're this labor of lovereally represent the community
(02:14):
that really has actuallysupported us all along the way.
Speaker 01 (02:17):
Yes, I love how every year, Omar, we get to
showcase gratitude in a new way.
And it is interesting, thistheme of harvest, because right
now, everyone, I'm on the bigisland of Hawaii, where I get to
steward five acres of coffee onour retreat center land.
(02:37):
And that's literally 3000plants.
So So for those of you thatlove coffee like I do, just
imagine that one tree producesone pound of coffee that you get
to buy at the store.
So it's incredible to be goingthrough this process and
learning for the first time,like, how does it work in an
(02:57):
actual agricultural sense?
You know, not a metaphor, butin a real tree kind of sense.
And what's really interestingis literally in one coffee tree,
there are several branches andAnd even on that same branch,
there's ones that are ripening,that are red, ready for picking.
There's ones that are stillgreen, not even close to
(03:21):
maturing for harvest.
And literally the art ofharvest of the coffee tree is
you are picking the signal ofthe ones that are the most ripe
with that red color.
So it reminds me of our lastepisode around, what is the
signal?
How do we cut through all thisnoise?
And what's really interestingis the coffee tree makes itself
(03:42):
very clear of when it's ready.
When is that mature fruit readyfor the picking?
Which I really appreciatebecause some of the other trees
we have on the land, likeavocado or mango, it's not super
clear.
And you need to look morecarefully at those fruits to see
(04:02):
if they're really ready forpicking.
And sometimes you have to pickthem before they're ripe.
And sometimes you pick themwhen they're ripe.
And there's literally thesedesignations of plants that have
guidelines around that.
So it can be reallycomplicated.
So
Speaker 02 (04:16):
I appreciate you continuing this theme of
wayfinding and what are thosesignals to help us sort of pay
attention.
But I'm also curious, likesomatically, what is the feeling
of being now a coffee farmer?
It
Speaker 01 (04:32):
is beautiful and also overwhelming because
literally I feel like we have3,000 babies.
And they all have differentneeds.
And to be honest, this time ofyear is stressful for the tree.
Literally, I just heard fromone of our mentors on coffee
that the coffee tree itselfcould actually die from being
(04:54):
overproducing constantly.
So it's just a really goodteacher on how do you produce
and offer something of value butnot burn yourself out, which I
feel like, Omar, that's been thestory of gratitude blooming.
Speaking of entrepreneurialism,I feel like that's our
continual evolution and questionthat we hold
Speaker 02 (05:23):
collectively.
build community, right?
Like how do we navigate thereal world and the digital world
(05:46):
and the lines that arecontinuing to blur between that
to help us find that signal tobe present, to know when to
pick, when to rest.
I know for myself, I'm in atransition right now and just my
body is like getting all tenseand excited and then it's like
super exhausting.
And, you know, I was just atthis amazing consciousness and
(06:06):
AI retreat up in Commonweal acouple of weeks ago, and it was
just Super exciting to kind ofsee the potential of the
technology, but grounded inspiritual traditions.
And then when I came back toLA, I was like, oh my God, the
physical world is so slow andheavy.
And like, I was like, okay, youknow, and I was at this
(06:27):
meditation last night, you know,I was having this like little
pain in my shoulder.
And it was really interestingbecause the meditation teacher
was like, what we focus on kindof grows.
And so pain has a great way ofbeing like, focus on me, focus
on me.
But as soon as I move myattention away from the pain in
(06:49):
my shoulder and just be like,everything is actually okay,
Omar.
This is your body's reacting tosomething, but you're actually
okay.
The pain disappearedimmediately.
And so it was just this likereal time sort of window into
like, what are we payingattention to?
What signal do we want to focuson?
Is it the one that's screaminglike, hey, hey, I'm bright red,
(07:11):
pick me.
Or it's like you said, theavocados and mangoes, that maybe
you have to be even more sortof attuned to maybe context or
other things to reallyunderstand whether it's ripe or
not.
Speaker 01 (07:25):
Well, I'm so excited to have Dr.
Paul with us as our co-host forthis season to continue to find
our way through change, throughthe seasons.
And I think it is a dailypractice.
When things are falling apart,when things feel overwhelming,
which fall can be, right?
It's like- It's like, how arewe going to stay grounded in
(07:50):
that?
And so I would love to hold aquestion that we'd like to ask
nature through GratitudeBlooming.
And then, Paul, have you kindof share a little bit about
those themes that we should bepaying attention to as well for
our bodies and our emotionalhealth, all the ways that we can
(08:10):
stay well through the seasons.
So does anyone have an inquiry?
Paul, I would love to inviteyou to frame a question for this
season that you think is reallypresent for you or for the
patients that you see regularly.
Dr. Paul (08:27):
One of the main themes is actually the play on words,
but actually it's just anothermeaning, literally, of fall,
fall back, fall down, versusspring up and out.
And the tendency of thisculture is to put us in that
latter state, which is a yangstate of dissipation.
So a lot of the almost everytreatment that I've been working
(08:50):
with my clients is to help thembring their energy
gravitationally in and downtowards that kind of meaning of
fall.
And so maybe a good question isjust to contemplate for a what
kind of activities or practicesallow you to wind down and move
(09:16):
inwards.
Unknown (09:18):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Speaker 02 (09:24):
What helps you wind down?
And so as we look at thedigital card deck, which is
seven rows, six columns, isthere a number that is speaking
to you all?
I think that third row, if youdon't mind.
All right.
I feel like something overhere.
(09:44):
Sure.
All right.
All right.
Card number 31, representingthe theme of the gardenia.
So when Arlene, the artist,illustrated this gardenia, it
spoke the word gentleness toher.
(10:05):
And the prompt is, being kindto yourself and others can be a
way to show gratitude.
What would it look like to livewith more gentleness?
And the art on this alwaysfeels very architectural.
Each petal is very distinctlyoutlined To me, it almost looks
like a Frank Gehry typebuilding, very modern in a way.
(10:28):
But what it can't necessarilycapture is just the beautiful
smell of a gardenia.
And so, you know, with yourquestion, Dr.
Paul, I love that you asked,like, how can we kind of invite
a practice to release?
And we got the theme ofgentleness.
Unknown (10:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 01 (10:51):
I love that literally when you look into a
gardenia, almost from a bird'seye view, you see a spiral.
And I do feel like the roundedand the curve of a spiral, even
just walking the labyrinth atour Shasta Retreat Center, you
automatically feel a softnessversus going from point A to
(11:12):
point B in a straight line.
Somatically, I just feel likethe body can flow a little bit
more versus being on a have amission.
It makes me feel like there'san invitation here from nature
to So just like exhale more,like literally Paul, you're like
(11:33):
winding down, going in.
And I just, it makes meliterally think like, maybe I
need to focus more on how I'mbreathing out, exhaling, you
know, releasing with my breaththis season, because there is so
much, I feel like internaltension or holding a little bit,
(11:53):
which also to me, Omar, reallyresonated with your body telling
you, give I'm giving yousignals because it's like when I
feel very tight and tense, likemy shoulders go up, my stomach
gets really tight.
And it's like, oh, what am Iholding onto?
What am I trying to control?
You know, and this gardenialiterally is saying, okay, like,
(12:15):
it's okay.
Let's be gentle here.
You know, let's relax.
Speaker 00 (12:20):
Yeah, you said shoulders go up, right?
So bring them down.
And you brought up the wordrelax, right?
Lax, laxity means loose.
Even the word release,actually, lease means loosen.
So to loosen again, to relaxand to release.
And about gentleness, I noticedthat because I have the
opportunity for people to openup and no names, but I feel
(12:44):
like, and I observe that 80, 90%of people are really rough and
mean to themselves.
And there's a lot of this kindof inner friction and conflict,
which makes it hard to relax.
And since we're, you know, inthe fall and moving towards
Equinox, Maybe a way to layeronto that as an image is this
(13:08):
idea of balance.
Equinox means equal night.
So it's actually acknowledgingthe yin even, right?
And about 12 hours yang, 12hours yin, 12 hours day, and 12
hours night.
And if you think about aseesaw, and if you're on either
extreme, the further you arefrom that fulcrum, it's hard to
(13:28):
balance and relax, right?
You can't, in a way, relax ifyou're not balanced, right?
If you're sitting and you'releaning even ever so slightly,
let's say two inches to oneside, let's say to the left
side, then your right side ofyour body is going to be tense,
right?
So until you find your center,that balance point between the
two extremes, nothing wrong withthe extremes, but sometimes in
(13:50):
a way they help define thecenter, but we still have to go
there and we still have to findways to find that homing to our
gravitational center.
I
Speaker 02 (14:00):
love these different somatic practices that you both
have invited in so quickly.
And I think for me, it is, Ilove smell.
on my walk, the flowers in theneighborhood.
I know where my favorite rosebushes are, the plumeria tree.
And they just like, there'ssomething about that pausing,
(14:21):
that smelling, that breathingin.
It just, it helps meautomatically.
It doesn't feel like, oh, I'mmeditating or something that
feels very formal.
It's just, it's very informal,right?
Like just pausing to appreciatethe smell of a flower.
And so it's just like, even ourpractices can be gentle, right?
Like sometimes we're like, oh,we want best practices.
(14:43):
You want good habits.
And, you know, and then webecome kind of rigid even about
our practice.
in trying to relax andde-stress or whatever the goal
is.
And so how do we even allow forthe practice itself to be
gentle in our approach to itand, you know, recognizing that,
you know, small steps arebetter than kind of big leaps,
(15:08):
but, you know, not to be toosort of strict about it either.
And so I don't know if, Dr.
Paul, there's, yeah, as you areguiding people, you know, and
encouraging them to to rememberto relax and to remember to
release, what have you foundthat really helps people kind of
create a little consistency?
As
Speaker 00 (15:28):
simple as possible, and that was a theme that came
up in, I think, the previousseason, and as portable as
possible.
And since you mentioned thebreath, maybe we can touch on
that.
So we have these elementalsymbols.
For instance, summer was fireand we had the transition from
summer to the metal season,which is fall.
(15:50):
And we go through this soilelement of transition and
recentering, composting even.
So metal in Chinese medicine,I'll touch on the organs.
I'll touch on three organs.
One is the external senseorgan, which is the nose.
And the inner organs, theviscera, there's metal organs,
(16:15):
let's say metal inner organs,and there's a yang and a yin.
And the yin metal is the lungs.
And the young metal is thelarge intestine.
And so some of my patientsliterally have issues with their
lungs and their largeintestine, let's say respiratory
issues, asthma, this kind ofthings, bronchitis, and also
(16:36):
let's say constipation orirritable bowel.
And so let's say their wholemetal constellation, including
the emotions of metal they'restruggling with, like grief and
gratitude, or also things likeregret and forgiveness.
These are all the emotionalalchemy of the metal element and
so one way just to tie ittogether very simply is those
(16:59):
organs that i mentioned rightbreathe from your nose into your
lungs all the way to the largeintestine, right?
And lung and large intestine,why they're called metal organs
or categorized as such isbecause metal is also this
boundary.
And as we are embodied, right?
(17:19):
The lungs are basicallyexposed.
They're like a bag, right?
That goes inside.
The inside of the lungs isactually outside.
And the other end too, in termsof the digestive system, right?
So they're also boundary andrelease actually, right?
Again, the fall season metal.
So all this kind of mythopoeticconnections that you can play
with, but simple, right?
Portable.
Just let's say out of the50,000 times you breathe each
(17:43):
day, how many of those are justin the nose, right?
Very shallow.
How many of those reach theupper lungs, the middle lungs,
the lower lungs?
How many of those reach all theway to your large intestine?
And what are you sort ofbreathing in, influencing,
right?
Flowing inwards.
And what is your sort ofexfluence to what are you
actually releasing?
Speaker 02 (18:03):
Hmm.
Yeah.
And I'm also taking thesesinging lessons right now.
And it's also really aboutbreath and where are you
(18:26):
breathing into.
If you're just trying tocapture the breath in your
throat, you're not going to beable to have the right pitch.
It's going to be constrained alittle bit.
But if you can breathe all theway down into your belly and
through your lungs, the side ofthe ribs of your lungs, then the
voice, the sound actuallycarries further with a lot less
(18:47):
effort.
And so, yeah, I just beautifulthat these parts of it and it
just I was also thinking ofBelinda when you said your
stomach tightens and that's theyou know the large intestines is
connected to all of that soit's just amazing how this
Taoist sort of traditions reallyspeak to you know how our
bodies are really reacting evenin sort of modern day life
Speaker 01 (19:09):
and I love that the gardenia it's from nature is
literally also inviting us tolook at this metal season
differently because when I thinkof the energy and the alchemy
of metal.
It's very sharp.
It's very intellectual.
It's very cut through and thechaos kind of discerning.
And I think the extra layer ofcombining Gardenia's energy of
(19:34):
gentleness with something like asword, the power of a sword is
like, wow, is there a way to dothe elimination or the cutting
through in a softer way?
And And literally, as part ofthe harvesting, some of the
things that we'll do is we'llcut the vine that's trying to
(19:59):
climb on the coffee tree.
And it's obviously not good forthe coffee to have this thing
climbing on its trunk.
But literally, if we don't cutcarefully, you could cut off the
branch of the tree that'sproducing the coffee berry.
So it's just reallyinteresting, I think, even
combining that idea of can themetal intellectual discernment
(20:22):
kind of energy cannot even beheld in a softer way.
I think in my life, it has beenvery hard.
It's been very masculine.
It's been very harsh.
So I'm curious for the two ofyou, what does that look like,
this metal element withgentleness?
Speaker 00 (20:43):
If I may, because I use metal every day as an
acupuncturist, it's seeminglyparadox, right?
Like if you, let's say, or likea surgeon uses a scalpel,
right?
Or even you have a, maybe likea saw, right?
Trying to cut a branch from thecoffee tree.
If it's not sharp, right?
If it's blunt, it's actuallymore painful.
(21:03):
And so that sharpness wherethey're, you know, you say it's
literally like an acupunctureneedle, a very sharp one, boom,
it goes right in, or maybe notboom, it very quickly slides in.
and a lot of people don't feelit imagine a very blunt needle
right that would be very painfulso The wisdom of the mental
element is sharpness in terms ofdiscernment.
It can allow us to maybe bemore efficient to make those
(21:27):
breakthroughs, whether it'scutting a branch or it's trying
to break through to anotherrealization.
So that's the first thing Ithought of is that mental
sharpness can serve us as wisdomto help us see clearly and
quickly rather than waste a lotof time perhaps in that kind of
overthinking state.
(21:48):
I love that question, Belinda,
Speaker 02 (21:51):
of just what does gentle harvest look like?
And all of a sudden, gentleharvest, there's like a little
bit more discernment as opposedto a feast or famine kind of
mindset, which is like, oh,look, there's fruit on the tree.
And like, let me just grab itall.
But just to be more discerningand just being like, okay, what
(22:11):
do I really need right now?
And how do I just really pickwhat I need?
And just sort of also recognizethat there is enough.
And breaking that sort of cycleof fear and scarcity when
there's literally abundance infront of us, right?
And so I just, yeah, I'm reallygoing into this next month with
(22:37):
the feeling of what does gentleharvest look like and how can I
practice it in small ways everyday?
Well, it's been amazing to jumpinto this conversation.
You can continue it inSubstack,
gratitudeblooming.substack.comAlso on
Speaker 01 (23:01):
ChatGPT, apparently.
and help create more balanceand solidity.
(23:27):
And, you know, we're going tohave two touch points coming up
in the fall for people.
If you'd like to practice withus, we're going to be on the Big
Island, October 10th weekend.
You can literally practice withme and Omar and the coffee
trees as they're harvesting.
We also have the fall equinoxgathering with Dr.
Paul for the week of September18th to the 24th in Mount
(23:52):
Shasta.
And these are all invitationsWell, thank you all for
listening.
Thank
Speaker 02 (24:11):
you, Dr.
Paul, for joining us again.
And we look forward to justcontinuing this sort of
reimagining of the calendarthrough this Taoist wisdom.
Cheers.
Speaker 01 (24:23):
Cheers.
Speaker 02 (24:24):
Bye.
Hello, Belinda.
Hey, Omar.
My kids are back in school,which can only mean one thing
that summer is over and fall hasjust begun, which is this
month's theme.
But before we jump into thetheme of harvest and fall, I
(00:27):
think we have like a shout outto give to Elizabeth, a
professor at SyracuseUniversity.
Belinda (00:32):
Yeah, literally, I opened up my computer one
morning and somebody had boughta written us an email.
And Elizabeth is a professor ofentrepreneurship.
And she literally found usthrough chat GBT asking about a
specific activity to use withher students around
(00:54):
neuroplasticity, gratitude andentrepreneurial mindset.
Omar (00:58):
How awesome is that?
I think artificial intelligenceis clearly very smart if it's
recommending gratitude.
Speaker 01 (01:05):
And so mindful.
Speaker 02 (01:06):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, it's justbeautiful all the different ways
that people are findinggratitude blooming.
I was just thinking about justin the four years that we've
been doing this podcast and fromthe pandemic and moving online
to blockchain technology andNFTs and now artificial
(01:27):
intelligence.
It's just in a fairly shorttime period, some pretty big
changes.
And so these seasons and justbeing mindful of what our bodies
are going through is just soimportant.
And, you know, we're gearing upfor the fall, which again,
gratitude is going to be top ofmind for folks around the
holidays and Thanksgiving.
(01:48):
And we're going to do somethingspecial this year, which is
create a raffle.
And Arlene, the artist behindall the art, is going to be
donating one of her original artpieces.
And it's this new watercolorseries.
I'm so excited.
I'm going to buy a ton ofraffles.
And we're this labor of lovereally represent the community
(02:14):
that really has actuallysupported us all along the way.
Speaker 01 (02:17):
Yes, I love how every year, Omar, we get to
showcase gratitude in a new way.
And it is interesting, thistheme of harvest, because right
now, everyone, I'm on the bigisland of Hawaii, where I get to
steward five acres of coffee onour retreat center land.
(02:37):
And that's literally 3000plants.
So So for those of you thatlove coffee like I do, just
imagine that one tree producesone pound of coffee that you get
to buy at the store.
So it's incredible to be goingthrough this process and
learning for the first time,like, how does it work in an
(02:57):
actual agricultural sense?
You know, not a metaphor, butin a real tree kind of sense.
And what's really interestingis literally in one coffee tree,
there are several branches andAnd even on that same branch,
there's ones that are ripening,that are red, ready for picking.
There's ones that are stillgreen, not even close to
(03:21):
maturing for harvest.
And literally the art ofharvest of the coffee tree is
you are picking the signal ofthe ones that are the most ripe
with that red color.
So it reminds me of our lastepisode around, what is the
signal?
How do we cut through all thisnoise?
And what's really interestingis the coffee tree makes itself
(03:42):
very clear of when it's ready.
When is that mature fruit readyfor the picking?
Which I really appreciatebecause some of the other trees
we have on the land, likeavocado or mango, it's not super
clear.
And you need to look morecarefully at those fruits to see
(04:02):
if they're really ready forpicking.
And sometimes you have to pickthem before they're ripe.
And sometimes you pick themwhen they're ripe.
And there's literally thesedesignations of plants that have
guidelines around that.
So it can be reallycomplicated.
So
Speaker 02 (04:16):
I appreciate you continuing this theme of
wayfinding and what are thosesignals to help us sort of pay
attention.
But I'm also curious, likesomatically, what is the feeling
of being now a coffee farmer?
It
Speaker 01 (04:32):
is beautiful and also overwhelming because
literally I feel like we have3,000 babies.
And they all have differentneeds.
And to be honest, this time ofyear is stressful for the tree.
Literally, I just heard fromone of our mentors on coffee
that the coffee tree itselfcould actually die from being
(04:54):
overproducing constantly.
So it's just a really goodteacher on how do you produce
and offer something of value butnot burn yourself out, which I
feel like, Omar, that's been thestory of gratitude blooming.
Speaking of entrepreneurialism,I feel like that's our
continual evolution and questionthat we hold
Speaker 02 (05:23):
collectively.
build community, right?
Like how do we navigate thereal world and the digital world
(05:46):
and the lines that arecontinuing to blur between that
to help us find that signal tobe present, to know when to
pick, when to rest.
I know for myself, I'm in atransition right now and just my
body is like getting all tenseand excited and then it's like
super exhausting.
And, you know, I was just atthis amazing consciousness and
(06:06):
AI retreat up in Commonweal acouple of weeks ago, and it was
just Super exciting to kind ofsee the potential of the
technology, but grounded inspiritual traditions.
And then when I came back toLA, I was like, oh my God, the
physical world is so slow andheavy.
And like, I was like, okay, youknow, and I was at this
(06:27):
meditation last night, you know,I was having this like little
pain in my shoulder.
And it was really interestingbecause the meditation teacher
was like, what we focus on kindof grows.
And so pain has a great way ofbeing like, focus on me, focus
on me.
But as soon as I move myattention away from the pain in
(06:49):
my shoulder and just be like,everything is actually okay,
Omar.
This is your body's reacting tosomething, but you're actually
okay.
The pain disappearedimmediately.
And so it was just this likereal time sort of window into
like, what are we payingattention to?
What signal do we want to focuson?
Is it the one that's screaminglike, hey, hey, I'm bright red,
(07:11):
pick me.
Or it's like you said, theavocados and mangoes, that maybe
you have to be even more sortof attuned to maybe context or
other things to reallyunderstand whether it's ripe or
not.
Speaker 01 (07:25):
Well, I'm so excited to have Dr.
Paul with us as our co-host forthis season to continue to find
our way through change, throughthe seasons.
And I think it is a dailypractice.
When things are falling apart,when things feel overwhelming,
which fall can be, right?
It's like- It's like, how arewe going to stay grounded in
(07:50):
that?
And so I would love to hold aquestion that we'd like to ask
nature through GratitudeBlooming.
And then, Paul, have you kindof share a little bit about
those themes that we should bepaying attention to as well for
our bodies and our emotionalhealth, all the ways that we can
(08:10):
stay well through the seasons.
So does anyone have an inquiry?
Paul, I would love to inviteyou to frame a question for this
season that you think is reallypresent for you or for the
patients that you see regularly.
Dr. Paul (08:27):
One of the main themes is actually the play on words,
but actually it's just anothermeaning, literally, of fall,
fall back, fall down, versusspring up and out.
And the tendency of thisculture is to put us in that
latter state, which is a yangstate of dissipation.
So a lot of the almost everytreatment that I've been working
(08:50):
with my clients is to help thembring their energy
gravitationally in and downtowards that kind of meaning of
fall.
And so maybe a good question isjust to contemplate for a what
kind of activities or practicesallow you to wind down and move
(09:16):
inwards.
Unknown (09:18):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Speaker 02 (09:24):
What helps you wind down?
And so as we look at thedigital card deck, which is
seven rows, six columns, isthere a number that is speaking
to you all?
I think that third row, if youdon't mind.
All right.
I feel like something overhere.
(09:44):
Sure.
All right.
All right.
Card number 31, representingthe theme of the gardenia.
So when Arlene, the artist,illustrated this gardenia, it
spoke the word gentleness toher.
(10:05):
And the prompt is, being kindto yourself and others can be a
way to show gratitude.
What would it look like to livewith more gentleness?
And the art on this alwaysfeels very architectural.
Each petal is very distinctlyoutlined To me, it almost looks
like a Frank Gehry typebuilding, very modern in a way.
(10:28):
But what it can't necessarilycapture is just the beautiful
smell of a gardenia.
And so, you know, with yourquestion, Dr.
Paul, I love that you asked,like, how can we kind of invite
a practice to release?
And we got the theme ofgentleness.
Unknown (10:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 01 (10:51):
I love that literally when you look into a
gardenia, almost from a bird'seye view, you see a spiral.
And I do feel like the roundedand the curve of a spiral, even
just walking the labyrinth atour Shasta Retreat Center, you
automatically feel a softnessversus going from point A to
(11:12):
point B in a straight line.
Somatically, I just feel likethe body can flow a little bit
more versus being on a have amission.
It makes me feel like there'san invitation here from nature
to So just like exhale more,like literally Paul, you're like
(11:33):
winding down, going in.
And I just, it makes meliterally think like, maybe I
need to focus more on how I'mbreathing out, exhaling, you
know, releasing with my breaththis season, because there is so
much, I feel like internaltension or holding a little bit,
(11:53):
which also to me, Omar, reallyresonated with your body telling
you, give I'm giving yousignals because it's like when I
feel very tight and tense, likemy shoulders go up, my stomach
gets really tight.
And it's like, oh, what am Iholding onto?
What am I trying to control?
You know, and this gardenialiterally is saying, okay, like,
(12:15):
it's okay.
Let's be gentle here.
You know, let's relax.
Speaker 00 (12:20):
Yeah, you said shoulders go up, right?
So bring them down.
And you brought up the wordrelax, right?
Lax, laxity means loose.
Even the word release,actually, lease means loosen.
So to loosen again, to relaxand to release.
And about gentleness, I noticedthat because I have the
opportunity for people to openup and no names, but I feel
(12:44):
like, and I observe that 80, 90%of people are really rough and
mean to themselves.
And there's a lot of this kindof inner friction and conflict,
which makes it hard to relax.
And since we're, you know, inthe fall and moving towards
Equinox, Maybe a way to layeronto that as an image is this
(13:08):
idea of balance.
Equinox means equal night.
So it's actually acknowledgingthe yin even, right?
And about 12 hours yang, 12hours yin, 12 hours day, and 12
hours night.
And if you think about aseesaw, and if you're on either
extreme, the further you arefrom that fulcrum, it's hard to
(13:28):
balance and relax, right?
You can't, in a way, relax ifyou're not balanced, right?
If you're sitting and you'releaning even ever so slightly,
let's say two inches to oneside, let's say to the left
side, then your right side ofyour body is going to be tense,
right?
So until you find your center,that balance point between the
two extremes, nothing wrong withthe extremes, but sometimes in
(13:50):
a way they help define thecenter, but we still have to go
there and we still have to findways to find that homing to our
gravitational center.
I
Speaker 02 (14:00):
love these different somatic practices that you both
have invited in so quickly.
And I think for me, it is, Ilove smell.
on my walk, the flowers in theneighborhood.
I know where my favorite rosebushes are, the plumeria tree.
And they just like, there'ssomething about that pausing,
(14:21):
that smelling, that breathingin.
It just, it helps meautomatically.
It doesn't feel like, oh, I'mmeditating or something that
feels very formal.
It's just, it's very informal,right?
Like just pausing to appreciatethe smell of a flower.
And so it's just like, even ourpractices can be gentle, right?
Like sometimes we're like, oh,we want best practices.
(14:43):
You want good habits.
And, you know, and then webecome kind of rigid even about
our practice.
in trying to relax andde-stress or whatever the goal
is.
And so how do we even allow forthe practice itself to be
gentle in our approach to itand, you know, recognizing that,
you know, small steps arebetter than kind of big leaps,
(15:08):
but, you know, not to be toosort of strict about it either.
And so I don't know if, Dr.
Paul, there's, yeah, as you areguiding people, you know, and
encouraging them to to rememberto relax and to remember to
release, what have you foundthat really helps people kind of
create a little consistency?
As
Speaker 00 (15:28):
simple as possible, and that was a theme that came
up in, I think, the previousseason, and as portable as
possible.
And since you mentioned thebreath, maybe we can touch on
that.
So we have these elementalsymbols.
For instance, summer was fireand we had the transition from
summer to the metal season,which is fall.
(15:50):
And we go through this soilelement of transition and
recentering, composting even.
So metal in Chinese medicine,I'll touch on the organs.
I'll touch on three organs.
One is the external senseorgan, which is the nose.
And the inner organs, theviscera, there's metal organs,
(16:15):
let's say metal inner organs,and there's a yang and a yin.
And the yin metal is the lungs.
And the young metal is thelarge intestine.
And so some of my patientsliterally have issues with their
lungs and their largeintestine, let's say respiratory
issues, asthma, this kind ofthings, bronchitis, and also
(16:36):
let's say constipation orirritable bowel.
And so let's say their wholemetal constellation, including
the emotions of metal they'restruggling with, like grief and
gratitude, or also things likeregret and forgiveness.
These are all the emotionalalchemy of the metal element and
so one way just to tie ittogether very simply is those
(16:59):
organs that i mentioned rightbreathe from your nose into your
lungs all the way to the largeintestine, right?
And lung and large intestine,why they're called metal organs
or categorized as such isbecause metal is also this
boundary.
And as we are embodied, right?
(17:19):
The lungs are basicallyexposed.
They're like a bag, right?
That goes inside.
The inside of the lungs isactually outside.
And the other end too, in termsof the digestive system, right?
So they're also boundary andrelease actually, right?
Again, the fall season metal.
So all this kind of mythopoeticconnections that you can play
with, but simple, right?
Portable.
Just let's say out of the50,000 times you breathe each
(17:43):
day, how many of those are justin the nose, right?
Very shallow.
How many of those reach theupper lungs, the middle lungs,
the lower lungs?
How many of those reach all theway to your large intestine?
And what are you sort ofbreathing in, influencing,
right?
Flowing inwards.
And what is your sort ofexfluence to what are you
actually releasing?
Speaker 02 (18:03):
Hmm.
Yeah.
And I'm also taking thesesinging lessons right now.
And it's also really aboutbreath and where are you
(18:26):
breathing into.
If you're just trying tocapture the breath in your
throat, you're not going to beable to have the right pitch.
It's going to be constrained alittle bit.
But if you can breathe all theway down into your belly and
through your lungs, the side ofthe ribs of your lungs, then the
voice, the sound actuallycarries further with a lot less
(18:47):
effort.
And so, yeah, I just beautifulthat these parts of it and it
just I was also thinking ofBelinda when you said your
stomach tightens and that's theyou know the large intestines is
connected to all of that soit's just amazing how this
Taoist sort of traditions reallyspeak to you know how our
bodies are really reacting evenin sort of modern day life
Speaker 01 (19:09):
and I love that the gardenia it's from nature is
literally also inviting us tolook at this metal season
differently because when I thinkof the energy and the alchemy
of metal.
It's very sharp.
It's very intellectual.
It's very cut through and thechaos kind of discerning.
And I think the extra layer ofcombining Gardenia's energy of
(19:34):
gentleness with something like asword, the power of a sword is
like, wow, is there a way to dothe elimination or the cutting
through in a softer way?
And And literally, as part ofthe harvesting, some of the
things that we'll do is we'llcut the vine that's trying to
(19:59):
climb on the coffee tree.
And it's obviously not good forthe coffee to have this thing
climbing on its trunk.
But literally, if we don't cutcarefully, you could cut off the
branch of the tree that'sproducing the coffee berry.
So it's just reallyinteresting, I think, even
combining that idea of can themetal intellectual discernment
(20:22):
kind of energy cannot even beheld in a softer way.
I think in my life, it has beenvery hard.
It's been very masculine.
It's been very harsh.
So I'm curious for the two ofyou, what does that look like,
this metal element withgentleness?
Speaker 00 (20:43):
If I may, because I use metal every day as an
acupuncturist, it's seeminglyparadox, right?
Like if you, let's say, or likea surgeon uses a scalpel,
right?
Or even you have a, maybe likea saw, right?
Trying to cut a branch from thecoffee tree.
If it's not sharp, right?
If it's blunt, it's actuallymore painful.
(21:03):
And so that sharpness wherethey're, you know, you say it's
literally like an acupunctureneedle, a very sharp one, boom,
it goes right in, or maybe notboom, it very quickly slides in.
and a lot of people don't feelit imagine a very blunt needle
right that would be very painfulso The wisdom of the mental
element is sharpness in terms ofdiscernment.
It can allow us to maybe bemore efficient to make those
(21:27):
breakthroughs, whether it'scutting a branch or it's trying
to break through to anotherrealization.
So that's the first thing Ithought of is that mental
sharpness can serve us as wisdomto help us see clearly and
quickly rather than waste a lotof time perhaps in that kind of
overthinking state.
(21:48):
I love that question, Belinda,
Speaker 02 (21:51):
of just what does gentle harvest look like?
And all of a sudden, gentleharvest, there's like a little
bit more discernment as opposedto a feast or famine kind of
mindset, which is like, oh,look, there's fruit on the tree.
And like, let me just grab itall.
But just to be more discerningand just being like, okay, what
(22:11):
do I really need right now?
And how do I just really pickwhat I need?
And just sort of also recognizethat there is enough.
And breaking that sort of cycleof fear and scarcity when
there's literally abundance infront of us, right?
And so I just, yeah, I'm reallygoing into this next month with
(22:37):
the feeling of what does gentleharvest look like and how can I
practice it in small ways everyday?
Well, it's been amazing to jumpinto this conversation.
You can continue it inSubstack,
gratitudeblooming.substack.comAlso on
Speaker 01 (23:01):
ChatGPT, apparently.
and help create more balanceand solidity.
(23:27):
And, you know, we're going tohave two touch points coming up
in the fall for people.
If you'd like to practice withus, we're going to be on the Big
Island, October 10th weekend.
You can literally practice withme and Omar and the coffee
trees as they're harvesting.
We also have the fall equinoxgathering with Dr.
Paul for the week of September18th to the 24th in Mount
(23:52):
Shasta.
And these are all invitationsWell, thank you all for
listening.
Thank
Speaker 02 (24:11):
you, Dr.
Paul, for joining us again.
And we look forward to justcontinuing this sort of
reimagining of the calendarthrough this Taoist wisdom.
Cheers.
Speaker 01 (24:23):
Cheers.
Speaker 02 (24:24):
Bye.
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