February 17, 2024 • 22 mins
Embark on a transformative exploration with us as we reflect on a profound year investigating the intersection of empathy and democracy. Our heartfelt discussions have led us to recognize the unsung heroes who create nurturing environments in every corner of society.
Today, we delve into lessons from our poignant collaboration with the Japanese American National Museum, underscoring democracy's vulnerability through the harrowing history of Japanese internment camps. As we gear up for our event 'Holding Space for the Spaceholders,' we're thrilled to welcome the deeply insightful Angela Oh and the adept facilitator Alex Dorsey. They'll share their wisdom on empathetic space creation, the personal cost of conflict, and the nuances of self-expression.
Feel the pulse of authenticity and its profound influence on forging human bonds as we navigate the art of vulnerability. Through symbolism from nature's playbook, we assess the courageous act of revealing our soft underbellies and the complexities of authenticity in maintaining relationships.
As we anticipate the dynamic exchange in our live podcast series, we invite you to connect with us and our special Democracy Center guests, Jim Herr and Sofia Alvarez, who will share their expertise on the tangible dynamics of holding space. Join us for a heartfelt synthesis of growth, challenge, and understanding, where every voice in the chorus of life is valued, and every moment of silence is powerful.
---
Create an intentional practice with your own Gratitude Blooming card deck, notecards, candle and much much more at our shop at www.gratitudeblooming.com.
Learn more about our co-hosts and special guest for Season 4:
Co-host Belinda Liu | Hestia Retreat Centers
Co-host Omar Brownson | Trickster's Guide to Immortality on Substack
Special Guest Dr. Paul Wang | The Dao Center
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star rating and review. Your feedback is valuable to us and helps us grow.
Share your thoughts and comments by emailing us at hello@gratitudeblooming.com. We love hearing from our listeners!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Omar Brownson (00:12):
Hello Belinda.
Belinda Liu (00:15):
Hi Omar.
Omar Brownson (00:17):
I can't believe we're already a month into the
new year.
I'm feeling your encouragementfrom last time where you said
how do we tend to our intentions?
And we set an intention a yearago around this idea of empathy
and democracy.
I can't believe it's beenalmost a year that we've been
(00:39):
having these conversations.
Belinda Liu (00:41):
Yeah, and it's been lovely to spend the day with
you, omar, on Zoom, with ourcollaboration partners and
really tending to our intentionstogether, which is definitely
an art within itself.
It's been a journey with you,me and Arlene together as part
of Grad 2, blooming and nowjoining forces with different
(01:04):
partners and different types ofspaceholders, and I'm actually
really excited for us to unpackthis idea of holding space and
that feels like kind of a newword, I mean.
I remember when facilitationand coaching were kind of the
buzzwords, for you know how doyou support people and support
(01:26):
groups and communities?
Omar Brownson (01:28):
The Japanese American National Museum is
hosting the Democracy Center,because democracy failed, you
know, during the Japaneseinternment camps and for a whole
generation of people who weregoing about their lives as
Americans and then, because ofwhere they're from, they were
(01:50):
literally put into theseinternment camps, which is a
nice sort of phrasing of reallybeing imprisoned, and so it's a
very real thing about, like,what happens when democracy
fails.
And so, you know, we've beenhaving those conversations, but
for this next one, we're titlingit Holding Space for the
(02:12):
Spaceholders, and to me it was alittle bit of a callback from
two years ago, when we wereholding space for healing, for
the healers, right, like, really, who are the people that are
really, either like thehealthcare workers that were
doing so much work for helpingother people, but no one was
taking care of them?
This time it felt like how dowe help hold space for those
(02:37):
that are holding space forothers, like facilitators
holding, you know, intentionalspaces, or parents, you know
holding spaces for parents orfor children, or even, you know,
I think, at a very personallevel, like how do we hold space
for ourselves?
Right, like it's an intentionalsort of practice that we need
to have and we have twophenomenal people co-hosting
(03:02):
this event with us Angela O andAlex Dorsey.
Angela is a prominent civilrights lawyer and then left all
of that to become a Zen priestand then in some ways, she left
all of that to become a Daoistmediation person.
And so her, just her ownevolution of like taking these
(03:25):
things of like race and politicsto you know, spirituality and
Zen practice, to then reallyjust like what is that everyday
kind of practice of beingpresent and then using that to
sort of help mediate sort ofconflict.
And then Alex Dorsey isprobably one of the most gifted
facilitators I've ever workedwith and also has a fellowship
(03:51):
program focused on leadershipand, interestingly, all three of
us are connected to CommonWheel.
Angela and I are on the board ofCommon Wheel.
Angela also runs Go Compassion,which is the group that I went
to Mexico recently to deliversupplies to a sanctuary, and
then Alex runs her leadershipprogram through Common Wheel.
(04:13):
And so I feel like there'sthese fun mycelial networks that
are starting to connect and asmaster sort of spaceholders, I
really loved in our prep todayhow they talked about it.
They're different things.
So I how are we holding empathyfor democracy, you know, and I
(04:35):
thought that was just such aprovocative question of like
democracy itself right now is inneed of some empathy.
And you know, and maybe it'shard to have empathy for an idea
like democracy Right now whenit can feel so divisive right,
both locally as well as globallyI know Friends on various sides
(05:00):
of conflict right now and it'sjust painful right and there's a
self-censorship that can happen, and when we do that we kind of
we silence Ourselves.
And so, you know, empathy isabout giving voice to our hearts
in lots of ways.
Belinda Liu (05:19):
Well, I'm excited to Preview some of the
conversations that we had thismorning with Jim and Sophia and
play that back for our listenersand our viewers, just to hear
real-time.
You know people that areHolding physical space.
You know day in and day outlike.
(05:40):
What is that experience like,and and how do they define
space-holding?
And you know as you listen.
Just Think about for you how isthat shown up for you in your
life?
Or, if you are someone whoholds a lot of space for others,
what does it mean to you?
Omar Brownson (05:57):
And what does it mean to you to do that with
empathy?
Sofia Alvarez (06:00):
I think, to even just the word holding feels.
It feels gentle, it doesn'tfeel so abrasive, it doesn't
feel as clinical, and so I Think, consciously making the space
for ourselves.
It's also empowering because itvalidates that our time is
(06:21):
valuable and our time forourselves is more self.
Jim Herr (06:25):
Well, when Sophia was speaking, I had what came to me
was that it's very maternal, sovery nurturing.
When you allow that for someoneelse, you provide that for
someone.
Yes, that's that you'renurturing them and and and
giving them what they need.
I've been very conscious ofenergy lately.
(06:50):
I don't know I Was having thisconversation with a friend the
other day and just how I'm Idon't know if I'm it's a
function of getting older or or,or just opening myself to other
two more things, especiallylike these kinds of
conversations.
But I've noticed how my energyis with with certain people like
(07:12):
we seem to be like on on thesame channel or the same I don't
want to say frequency, but thesame channel and it can be very
good and it can also be very badsometimes if their energy is
not what I needed to be.
I noticed this really reallyprofoundly or sharply at the
beginning of the year.
I had worked pretty much January2nd through Whatever, the 13th,
(07:38):
whatever that Saturday was ofMLK weekend.
Every day we had people comingthrough for our implicit bias
exhibition in the Smithsonian.
I'm called the bias and sinus.
I was doing these tours,specific tours with groups of
people doing these deep briefson a very kind of like heavy
subject and I had two of themthat Saturday and I could not do
(08:05):
anything.
The rest of the weekend, likeSaturday, like Sunday and Monday
, were just shot like I couldnot and I did not want to do
anything and I and it was thefirst time I kind of realized
how, how my energy, where itcomes from, where it goes, how
it gets depleted, how I need tobuild it back up.
Belinda Liu (08:28):
Yeah, it's so interesting how the maternal is
so powerful and yet there can bethe shadow side of over giving.
And I feel like that's been oneof the things I've had to learn
so many times in my life, likeas a teacher, as a facilitator
for urban teachers, and then now, lance Jeward, it's like how do
(08:51):
you press the stop button whenyou're with other people and you
see the suffering or the needsin front of you and how do you
just hold a little space foryourself before you just use all
of the rest of your gas on aneed in front of you?
And I could so relate to thatin Jim's voice.
Yeah, it is such an importantquestion because everyone that
(09:16):
is lifting up their families ortheir communities or their teams
or organizations right now itis.
There is a heaviness to thatenergy right Like I mean, that
was part of the conversation toois like it's an energy exchange
when you are holding space.
Omar Brownson (09:34):
From the workshop that I was leading last week
around adaptive leadership.
It's like how do we get off thedance floor and onto the
balcony, right?
Like how do we get out of thatday to day movement and really
give ourselves permission topause, right, to take a step
back, to go on the balcony andto take a look and to scan
(09:55):
what's actually happening.
It's this idea of go slow, togo fast, right, like we know
these things, they're in oursort of pop culture language,
but we continue to forget, youknow, and so it's important that
we find those reminders, thatsort of help us like okay, it's
okay to like let go.
(10:17):
And you know, and I think maybethat's also where the art when
we pause to look at the art,like there's a joy and an ease
to it, right, and so I thinkmaybe that's also part of the
practice is where can we findjoy and ease and just appreciate
(10:37):
that there's lots of differentways to pause, like pausing
doesn't have to be this, likeserene, you know, on top of a
mountain.
You know, like a pause can beas simple as a somatic practice
of just taking a moment, andlike feeling your feet on the
ground or touching two fingerstogether and just seeing if you
can feel the ridges against yourthumb and your forefinger.
(11:01):
And it's just these littlesomatic practices.
Those are important balconymoments too.
Belinda Liu (11:09):
I love that and it brings me to that point in our
conversation with Alex andAngela today just around
unpacking our intent.
You know how do we want peopleto feel, what do we want people
to receive from this experience?
And I feel like that isprobably 80% of the work when
you're holding space, becauseonce you capture that essence of
(11:33):
the intent, then everythingkind of matches our lines to
that.
You know just how to, how todecorate the space, how to
arrange the chairs, and then youkind of like surrender then to
that moment when it's happening,and I loved that we kind of
came up with some words like welove for people to take a pause
(11:58):
and open up to receiving andthen to reimagine.
You know like, oh, maybeholding space for other people
can be, you know, like breathing.
You know like that level ofease and naturalness in our
bodies.
Omar Brownson (12:16):
Well, I'm kind of curious if we were to pull a
gratitude blooming card and wewere to ask the question what do
we need to receive right now?
What the gratitude bloomingcard deck would tell us Like and
I always love thinking aboutthe gratitude blooming card deck
as like a translator for MotherEarth.
You know, and I was, someonesent me an article this morning
(12:40):
about this particular NativeAmerican tribe and they're like
we need a new language for howwe talk about the environment
and they're talking about intheir particular tribe.
The word nature actuallytranslates to a way of life and
you know, and I feel like it'sjust this reminder of like, what
(13:02):
way of life do we want toactually live Right?
Like, are we giving ourselvesspaces where pausing is actually
built into the environment?
Because maybe you're, you'returning off the lights at night
because you know the sun is down, or you know, like what are
those even small ways that wecan sort of ease into nature in
(13:26):
a different way?
Belinda Liu (13:28):
I love that, so love for you to state our
inquiry or intent as we scrollthrough the digital deck On this
day.
What do we need?
Omar Brownson (13:39):
to receive.
What do we need to receive?
Card number nine, representedby the rose and the theme of
vulnerability.
It takes courage to bevulnerable.
How can you show vulnerabilityto others?
(14:00):
What can bloom from thoseconnections?
Belinda Liu (14:06):
I love that this card is about relationships
inherently.
You know, with the wordconnection and you know
vulnerability, I feel like itcan be a real gift, and
sometimes it can be really hardto be comfortable or safe enough
(14:27):
to be that open, and so italmost makes me wonder if that's
a clue around.
How do we need to hold thespace for others to create that
sense of vulnerability or thatsafety to be vulnerable?
Omar Brownson (14:43):
You know, what's funny is that we've obviously
seen this card a number of times, but this is the first time I
really zeroed in on the wordconnections and in sort of
similar like it's, thevulnerability to others creates
a connection, and that's reallypart of the practice of empathy
is like, how do we create theseconnections?
(15:06):
Not by just sort of, oh, I'mempathetic to their concern of
someone else, but like, oh, Ifeel something, I am showing
something of myself in this andand and then the art.
You see this one pedal kind offalling off the flower of the
rose flowers.
And so it's like, what do weneed to release in order to be
(15:29):
vulnerable?
Like what do we need to let goof?
Like what shields we might beholding up, what armor you know
we might be protecting ourselves?
And you know the image that Ihave right now we just got a new
puppy.
She's like 17 months old, soshe's not like puppy, puppy, but
you know she's definitely gotlots of energy.
(15:51):
And you know, when a dog feelsvulnerable, they'll go on their
back and open their belly upright when they feel safe, like
that's their sort of underbelly,and they'll, literally, when
they feel safe, they'll go ontheir back or or in.
Sometimes you know, you seedogs and they do that as sort of
(16:11):
an act of submission as well,and so there's like, how do we,
how do we feel comfortable goingon our backs and showing our
underbellies and and not sort offeeling like we're putting our
best foot forward or, you know,fake it till we make it, you
know, or you know, you hearoftentimes people feeling this
like this imposter syndrome andreally, you know, vulnerability
(16:36):
is how we help kind of releasesome of those expectations and
just really be vulnerable andconnect.
Belinda Liu (16:46):
Yeah, and it makes me think about like moments
where I haven't done, beenvulnerable, and like what gets
in the way.
And I think maybe the thingthat I would release is like
thinking too much about how whatI say or how I show up will be
interpreted or, you know, judged, and then you kind of produce
(17:09):
like an artificial way ofshowing up.
Right, that's not really whoyou are, or people don't really
see what's underneath,especially like when there's new
people and you don't know whatthis energy is of the community
and of just like suspending allthe stories, right, Because you
don't know anything about otherpeople and it's just like well,
(17:32):
how do I just not worry aboutthat?
And it's funny that the wordson the artwork say all shall be
well and all capital letters.
You know it's like.
Can you say what you reallymean and believe that it's going
to be okay?
Omar Brownson (17:49):
So there's vulnerability in new
relationships, but there's alsovulnerability in older ones,
right, and would you say youknow we've now been
collaborating for three years.
What is the rose telling youright now about our
collaboration?
Belinda Liu (18:09):
And yeah, Hmm, early on in our collaboration,
not knowing each other, welllike, there's always this like
making sure, not sure if you'rebeing heard in the way that you
intend right, and I feel likethat wasn't the earlier part of
our journeys.
(18:29):
I feel like we know each othernow to also read each other a
little bit more clearly.
When you've been through thefire of like conflict with
someone which we have, it feelslike there's nothing like you're
almost like stripped of.
You know the fear of whatsomeone's gonna think of you,
(18:52):
because you've already, you know, been in a situation where you
don't agree and you can managethat difference with the other
person.
Well, omar, I feel like thequestion that you asked me is a
little bit of a question for youas well.
So you know for you what makesit hard to be vulnerable in your
(19:15):
life.
Omar Brownson (19:16):
There's been so much shedding right, like, so I
have allowed and maybe even notallowed, but nonetheless lots of
petals have fallen away, and soI think part of it has been
putting myself in a intentionalspace of releasing and letting
(19:38):
go and really then kind ofcoming to a place where it's
like it's like what connectionsmight bloom that I'm not even
aware of.
You know, like I would saythere was a part of me for a
very long time that was verystrategic and analytical.
And then to relationships youknow are viewed from that sort
(20:05):
of lens, and I thinkvulnerability is that you're
just in relationship and it'snot even that you know what will
bloom necessarily.
Belinda Liu (20:15):
And you're someone that I feel is very confident
and courageous about your words.
I'm curious, like is there evera time where you find yourself
like not saying something thatyou feel in the moment and like,
and what prevents that?
Omar Brownson (20:34):
I certainly, despite myself, don't always
just say exactly what I'mfeeling in the moment, you know,
and I think part of it is onesometimes not saying something
as an act of compassion, rightTo like let something kind of go
because it is serving no oneelse but myself.
(20:55):
And so, you know, I think I'mtrying to become more aware of
that my family's sense of humorcan be a little harsh, and so,
you know, it's how we sometimesexpress our love is through
teasing, and so sometimes, youknow, maybe that jab isn't
necessary, you know.
So I think I'm continuing tolearn, you know when is it good
(21:18):
to share and when is it good tokind of not share and that's
actually the right thing to do.
And so, yeah, I would say it'sa constant navigation, and I
think part of it is learning tohave more empathy and compassion
you know, because there's some.
But then I also think like it'simportant to own your voice, and
(21:40):
so it's a tension, you know, ofwhen to share and when to not,
when is it generous and when isit not.
Belinda Liu (21:49):
Yeah, it makes me think of the dance floor
metaphor you brought up, like itis a dance right, like and you
have to kind of feel your waythrough it for yourself and also
with the person that you'redancing with, and what is the
right moment.
And, yeah, this is a reallybeautiful message from nature.
I feel like it's really timely,as we look forward to sharing
(22:12):
how those conversations go livein that live podcast series too,
after the event.
So you'll stay tuned for that.
You'll be a part of it, forsure.
Omar Brownson (22:24):
Wishing you well.
Belinda Liu (22:26):
Cheers.
Omar Brownson (22:27):
Cheers.
Hello Belinda.
Belinda Liu (00:15):
Hi Omar.
Omar Brownson (00:17):
I can't believe we're already a month into the
new year.
I'm feeling your encouragementfrom last time where you said
how do we tend to our intentions?
And we set an intention a yearago around this idea of empathy
and democracy.
I can't believe it's beenalmost a year that we've been
(00:39):
having these conversations.
Belinda Liu (00:41):
Yeah, and it's been lovely to spend the day with
you, omar, on Zoom, with ourcollaboration partners and
really tending to our intentionstogether, which is definitely
an art within itself.
It's been a journey with you,me and Arlene together as part
of Grad 2, blooming and nowjoining forces with different
(01:04):
partners and different types ofspaceholders, and I'm actually
really excited for us to unpackthis idea of holding space and
that feels like kind of a newword, I mean.
I remember when facilitationand coaching were kind of the
buzzwords, for you know how doyou support people and support
(01:26):
groups and communities?
Omar Brownson (01:28):
The Japanese American National Museum is
hosting the Democracy Center,because democracy failed, you
know, during the Japaneseinternment camps and for a whole
generation of people who weregoing about their lives as
Americans and then, because ofwhere they're from, they were
(01:50):
literally put into theseinternment camps, which is a
nice sort of phrasing of reallybeing imprisoned, and so it's a
very real thing about, like,what happens when democracy
fails.
And so, you know, we've beenhaving those conversations, but
for this next one, we're titlingit Holding Space for the
(02:12):
Spaceholders, and to me it was alittle bit of a callback from
two years ago, when we wereholding space for healing, for
the healers, right, like, really, who are the people that are
really, either like thehealthcare workers that were
doing so much work for helpingother people, but no one was
taking care of them?
This time it felt like how dowe help hold space for those
(02:37):
that are holding space forothers, like facilitators
holding, you know, intentionalspaces, or parents, you know
holding spaces for parents orfor children, or even, you know,
I think, at a very personallevel, like how do we hold space
for ourselves?
Right, like it's an intentionalsort of practice that we need
to have and we have twophenomenal people co-hosting
(03:02):
this event with us Angela O andAlex Dorsey.
Angela is a prominent civilrights lawyer and then left all
of that to become a Zen priestand then in some ways, she left
all of that to become a Daoistmediation person.
And so her, just her ownevolution of like taking these
(03:25):
things of like race and politicsto you know, spirituality and
Zen practice, to then reallyjust like what is that everyday
kind of practice of beingpresent and then using that to
sort of help mediate sort ofconflict.
And then Alex Dorsey isprobably one of the most gifted
facilitators I've ever workedwith and also has a fellowship
(03:51):
program focused on leadershipand, interestingly, all three of
us are connected to CommonWheel.
Angela and I are on the board ofCommon Wheel.
Angela also runs Go Compassion,which is the group that I went
to Mexico recently to deliversupplies to a sanctuary, and
then Alex runs her leadershipprogram through Common Wheel.
(04:13):
And so I feel like there'sthese fun mycelial networks that
are starting to connect and asmaster sort of spaceholders, I
really loved in our prep todayhow they talked about it.
They're different things.
So I how are we holding empathyfor democracy, you know, and I
(04:35):
thought that was just such aprovocative question of like
democracy itself right now is inneed of some empathy.
And you know, and maybe it'shard to have empathy for an idea
like democracy Right now whenit can feel so divisive right,
both locally as well as globallyI know Friends on various sides
(05:00):
of conflict right now and it'sjust painful right and there's a
self-censorship that can happen, and when we do that we kind of
we silence Ourselves.
And so, you know, empathy isabout giving voice to our hearts
in lots of ways.
Belinda Liu (05:19):
Well, I'm excited to Preview some of the
conversations that we had thismorning with Jim and Sophia and
play that back for our listenersand our viewers, just to hear
real-time.
You know people that areHolding physical space.
You know day in and day outlike.
(05:40):
What is that experience like,and and how do they define
space-holding?
And you know as you listen.
Just Think about for you how isthat shown up for you in your
life?
Or, if you are someone whoholds a lot of space for others,
what does it mean to you?
Omar Brownson (05:57):
And what does it mean to you to do that with
empathy?
Sofia Alvarez (06:00):
I think, to even just the word holding feels.
It feels gentle, it doesn'tfeel so abrasive, it doesn't
feel as clinical, and so I Think, consciously making the space
for ourselves.
It's also empowering because itvalidates that our time is
(06:21):
valuable and our time forourselves is more self.
Jim Herr (06:25):
Well, when Sophia was speaking, I had what came to me
was that it's very maternal, sovery nurturing.
When you allow that for someoneelse, you provide that for
someone.
Yes, that's that you'renurturing them and and and
giving them what they need.
I've been very conscious ofenergy lately.
(06:50):
I don't know I Was having thisconversation with a friend the
other day and just how I'm Idon't know if I'm it's a
function of getting older or or,or just opening myself to other
two more things, especiallylike these kinds of
conversations.
But I've noticed how my energyis with with certain people like
(07:12):
we seem to be like on on thesame channel or the same I don't
want to say frequency, but thesame channel and it can be very
good and it can also be very badsometimes if their energy is
not what I needed to be.
I noticed this really reallyprofoundly or sharply at the
beginning of the year.
I had worked pretty much January2nd through Whatever, the 13th,
(07:38):
whatever that Saturday was ofMLK weekend.
Every day we had people comingthrough for our implicit bias
exhibition in the Smithsonian.
I'm called the bias and sinus.
I was doing these tours,specific tours with groups of
people doing these deep briefson a very kind of like heavy
subject and I had two of themthat Saturday and I could not do
(08:05):
anything.
The rest of the weekend, likeSaturday, like Sunday and Monday
, were just shot like I couldnot and I did not want to do
anything and I and it was thefirst time I kind of realized
how, how my energy, where itcomes from, where it goes, how
it gets depleted, how I need tobuild it back up.
Belinda Liu (08:28):
Yeah, it's so interesting how the maternal is
so powerful and yet there can bethe shadow side of over giving.
And I feel like that's been oneof the things I've had to learn
so many times in my life, likeas a teacher, as a facilitator
for urban teachers, and then now, lance Jeward, it's like how do
(08:51):
you press the stop button whenyou're with other people and you
see the suffering or the needsin front of you and how do you
just hold a little space foryourself before you just use all
of the rest of your gas on aneed in front of you?
And I could so relate to thatin Jim's voice.
Yeah, it is such an importantquestion because everyone that
(09:16):
is lifting up their families ortheir communities or their teams
or organizations right now itis.
There is a heaviness to thatenergy right Like I mean, that
was part of the conversation toois like it's an energy exchange
when you are holding space.
Omar Brownson (09:34):
From the workshop that I was leading last week
around adaptive leadership.
It's like how do we get off thedance floor and onto the
balcony, right?
Like how do we get out of thatday to day movement and really
give ourselves permission topause, right, to take a step
back, to go on the balcony andto take a look and to scan
(09:55):
what's actually happening.
It's this idea of go slow, togo fast, right, like we know
these things, they're in oursort of pop culture language,
but we continue to forget, youknow, and so it's important that
we find those reminders, thatsort of help us like okay, it's
okay to like let go.
(10:17):
And you know, and I think maybethat's also where the art when
we pause to look at the art,like there's a joy and an ease
to it, right, and so I thinkmaybe that's also part of the
practice is where can we findjoy and ease and just appreciate
(10:37):
that there's lots of differentways to pause, like pausing
doesn't have to be this, likeserene, you know, on top of a
mountain.
You know, like a pause can beas simple as a somatic practice
of just taking a moment, andlike feeling your feet on the
ground or touching two fingerstogether and just seeing if you
can feel the ridges against yourthumb and your forefinger.
(11:01):
And it's just these littlesomatic practices.
Those are important balconymoments too.
Belinda Liu (11:09):
I love that and it brings me to that point in our
conversation with Alex andAngela today just around
unpacking our intent.
You know how do we want peopleto feel, what do we want people
to receive from this experience?
And I feel like that isprobably 80% of the work when
you're holding space, becauseonce you capture that essence of
(11:33):
the intent, then everythingkind of matches our lines to
that.
You know just how to, how todecorate the space, how to
arrange the chairs, and then youkind of like surrender then to
that moment when it's happening,and I loved that we kind of
came up with some words like welove for people to take a pause
(11:58):
and open up to receiving andthen to reimagine.
You know like, oh, maybeholding space for other people
can be, you know, like breathing.
You know like that level ofease and naturalness in our
bodies.
Omar Brownson (12:16):
Well, I'm kind of curious if we were to pull a
gratitude blooming card and wewere to ask the question what do
we need to receive right now?
What the gratitude bloomingcard deck would tell us Like and
I always love thinking aboutthe gratitude blooming card deck
as like a translator for MotherEarth.
You know, and I was, someonesent me an article this morning
(12:40):
about this particular NativeAmerican tribe and they're like
we need a new language for howwe talk about the environment
and they're talking about intheir particular tribe.
The word nature actuallytranslates to a way of life and
you know, and I feel like it'sjust this reminder of like, what
(13:02):
way of life do we want toactually live Right?
Like, are we giving ourselvesspaces where pausing is actually
built into the environment?
Because maybe you're, you'returning off the lights at night
because you know the sun is down, or you know, like what are
those even small ways that wecan sort of ease into nature in
(13:26):
a different way?
Belinda Liu (13:28):
I love that, so love for you to state our
inquiry or intent as we scrollthrough the digital deck On this
day.
What do we need?
Omar Brownson (13:39):
to receive.
What do we need to receive?
Card number nine, representedby the rose and the theme of
vulnerability.
It takes courage to bevulnerable.
How can you show vulnerabilityto others?
(14:00):
What can bloom from thoseconnections?
Belinda Liu (14:06):
I love that this card is about relationships
inherently.
You know, with the wordconnection and you know
vulnerability, I feel like itcan be a real gift, and
sometimes it can be really hardto be comfortable or safe enough
(14:27):
to be that open, and so italmost makes me wonder if that's
a clue around.
How do we need to hold thespace for others to create that
sense of vulnerability or thatsafety to be vulnerable?
Omar Brownson (14:43):
You know, what's funny is that we've obviously
seen this card a number of times, but this is the first time I
really zeroed in on the wordconnections and in sort of
similar like it's, thevulnerability to others creates
a connection, and that's reallypart of the practice of empathy
is like, how do we create theseconnections?
(15:06):
Not by just sort of, oh, I'mempathetic to their concern of
someone else, but like, oh, Ifeel something, I am showing
something of myself in this andand and then the art.
You see this one pedal kind offalling off the flower of the
rose flowers.
And so it's like, what do weneed to release in order to be
(15:29):
vulnerable?
Like what do we need to let goof?
Like what shields we might beholding up, what armor you know
we might be protecting ourselves?
And you know the image that Ihave right now we just got a new
puppy.
She's like 17 months old, soshe's not like puppy, puppy, but
you know she's definitely gotlots of energy.
(15:51):
And you know, when a dog feelsvulnerable, they'll go on their
back and open their belly upright when they feel safe, like
that's their sort of underbelly,and they'll, literally, when
they feel safe, they'll go ontheir back or or in.
Sometimes you know, you seedogs and they do that as sort of
(16:11):
an act of submission as well,and so there's like, how do we,
how do we feel comfortable goingon our backs and showing our
underbellies and and not sort offeeling like we're putting our
best foot forward or, you know,fake it till we make it, you
know, or you know, you hearoftentimes people feeling this
like this imposter syndrome andreally, you know, vulnerability
(16:36):
is how we help kind of releasesome of those expectations and
just really be vulnerable andconnect.
Belinda Liu (16:46):
Yeah, and it makes me think about like moments
where I haven't done, beenvulnerable, and like what gets
in the way.
And I think maybe the thingthat I would release is like
thinking too much about how whatI say or how I show up will be
interpreted or, you know, judged, and then you kind of produce
(17:09):
like an artificial way ofshowing up.
Right, that's not really whoyou are, or people don't really
see what's underneath,especially like when there's new
people and you don't know whatthis energy is of the community
and of just like suspending allthe stories, right, Because you
don't know anything about otherpeople and it's just like well,
(17:32):
how do I just not worry aboutthat?
And it's funny that the wordson the artwork say all shall be
well and all capital letters.
You know it's like.
Can you say what you reallymean and believe that it's going
to be okay?
Omar Brownson (17:49):
So there's vulnerability in new
relationships, but there's alsovulnerability in older ones,
right, and would you say youknow we've now been
collaborating for three years.
What is the rose telling youright now about our
collaboration?
Belinda Liu (18:09):
And yeah, Hmm, early on in our collaboration,
not knowing each other, welllike, there's always this like
making sure, not sure if you'rebeing heard in the way that you
intend right, and I feel likethat wasn't the earlier part of
our journeys.
(18:29):
I feel like we know each othernow to also read each other a
little bit more clearly.
When you've been through thefire of like conflict with
someone which we have, it feelslike there's nothing like you're
almost like stripped of.
You know the fear of whatsomeone's gonna think of you,
(18:52):
because you've already, you know, been in a situation where you
don't agree and you can managethat difference with the other
person.
Well, omar, I feel like thequestion that you asked me is a
little bit of a question for youas well.
So you know for you what makesit hard to be vulnerable in your
(19:15):
life.
Omar Brownson (19:16):
There's been so much shedding right, like, so I
have allowed and maybe even notallowed, but nonetheless lots of
petals have fallen away, and soI think part of it has been
putting myself in a intentionalspace of releasing and letting
(19:38):
go and really then kind ofcoming to a place where it's
like it's like what connectionsmight bloom that I'm not even
aware of.
You know, like I would saythere was a part of me for a
very long time that was verystrategic and analytical.
And then to relationships youknow are viewed from that sort
(20:05):
of lens, and I thinkvulnerability is that you're
just in relationship and it'snot even that you know what will
bloom necessarily.
Belinda Liu (20:15):
And you're someone that I feel is very confident
and courageous about your words.
I'm curious, like is there evera time where you find yourself
like not saying something thatyou feel in the moment and like,
and what prevents that?
Omar Brownson (20:34):
I certainly, despite myself, don't always
just say exactly what I'mfeeling in the moment, you know,
and I think part of it is onesometimes not saying something
as an act of compassion, rightTo like let something kind of go
because it is serving no oneelse but myself.
(20:55):
And so, you know, I think I'mtrying to become more aware of
that my family's sense of humorcan be a little harsh, and so,
you know, it's how we sometimesexpress our love is through
teasing, and so sometimes, youknow, maybe that jab isn't
necessary, you know.
So I think I'm continuing tolearn, you know when is it good
(21:18):
to share and when is it good tokind of not share and that's
actually the right thing to do.
And so, yeah, I would say it'sa constant navigation, and I
think part of it is learning tohave more empathy and compassion
you know, because there's some.
But then I also think like it'simportant to own your voice, and
(21:40):
so it's a tension, you know, ofwhen to share and when to not,
when is it generous and when isit not.
Belinda Liu (21:49):
Yeah, it makes me think of the dance floor
metaphor you brought up, like itis a dance right, like and you
have to kind of feel your waythrough it for yourself and also
with the person that you'redancing with, and what is the
right moment.
And, yeah, this is a reallybeautiful message from nature.
I feel like it's really timely,as we look forward to sharing
(22:12):
how those conversations go livein that live podcast series too,
after the event.
So you'll stay tuned for that.
You'll be a part of it, forsure.
Omar Brownson (22:24):
Wishing you well.
Belinda Liu (22:26):
Cheers.
Omar Brownson (22:27):
Cheers.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!