May 13, 2025 • 28 mins
What if awe begins with remembering?
In this episode, co-hosts Belinda Liu and Omar Brownson are joined by Dr. Paul Wang to explore the seasonal shift from budding to blooming—and how the heart holds the wisdom to navigate both. Rooted in Daoist philosophy, plant medicine, and the Gratitude Blooming card of Simplicity, this conversation offers a gentle invitation to slow down, feel more, and choose what truly matters.
Don't miss the guided somatic practice at the end of this episode to support your emotional resilience and heart-centered mindfulness this spring.
🌼 Support our podcast by subscribing to our new home on substack. We offer bonus seasonal practices, new art, and reflections at:
gratitudeblooming.substack.com
Join us on Big Island, Hawaii for our special Summer Solstice sabbatical week with Dr. Paul from June 16-22: https://www.hestiamagic.com/summer-solstice
Use this special promo code for 10% off your ticket: gratitudeblooming
---
Create an intentional practice with your own Gratitude Blooming card deck, notecards, candle and much much more at our shop at www.gratitudeblooming.com.
Learn more about our co-hosts and special guest for Season 4:
Co-host Belinda Liu | Hestia Retreat Centers
Co-host Omar Brownson | Trickster's Guide to Immortality on Substack
Special Guest Dr. Paul Wang | The Dao Center
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star rating and review. Your feedback is valuable to us and helps us grow.
Share your thoughts and comments by emailing us at hello@gratitudeblooming.com. We love hearing from our listeners!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello Belinda, hey Omar, welcome folks to the
Gratitude Blooming podcast.
We are exploring the art ofwayfinding through this season
and the most recent episode wasaround budding with spring and I
can't tell you how much I'vepaid attention to the little
(00:30):
buds on trees and plants like Ihave never before.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
And I'm excited to continue the journey of the grad
two blooming card practice todraw one card inspired by the
original plant drawings from ourco-host of the podcast, arlene
Kim Suda, and just seeing whatwants to emerge from just taking
a pause with nature, what ishappening in this moment, in
(00:59):
this season, in this cycle inthis cycle.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's been beautiful to have the cards guide us and
now really paying attention tohow nature is guiding us, and to
be joined by our special guest,dr Paul Wong, so that way we
really are drawing from sort ofancient traditions as well.
And so now we have cards, wehave nature, we have lineage,
all these tools no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And it's so cool now, omar, we've been doing this
podcast for a couple of years,and so we've had many seasons
throughout the years, and thisspring is different from the
spring last year, and I remembergoing back to our origin days
when I invited you to come forthe first time to our land in
Mount Shasta, california, toexplore a new possibility of
(02:15):
bringing our passion forgratitude into a collaborative
effort.
I mean, that was a couple yearsago, 2021.
Can you believe it?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, I think we're at over 120 podcast episodes at
this point, so I can absolutelybelieve that we have been
through some seasons together.
But I think what's exciting isthat things keep growing right,
like new ideas kind of keepcoming and then new soil sort of
appears for us to plant thoseseeds and then new partners to
(02:46):
help us sort of water andnurture this ecosystem.
And I think that, for me, iswhat subsac has been, this place
to kind of really expand ourecosystem.
I know that I've been having ablast with my tricksters guide
to immortality.
I've got new comic characterswith monkey, king and the heart,
and then I've just created awhole meme series without soot
(03:09):
called the forgotten footnotesof the dao, and so I can't wait
to welcome gratitude bloomingonto substack so that we can
grow this ecosystem even more.
And that's going to include drpaul's daology work, and so I I
think in the Tao and Paul youcan correct me this is that in
the beginning there was one, andone created two, two created
(03:33):
three and three created 10,000things, and so I think that's
really at the level of growththat we're starting to play out.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I love that you quoted the Tao.
So you know the one is kind ofinert.
The two creates a possibilityof relationship, which is
actually the three right.
The two is kind of maybethey're just sitting there the
yin and the yang, but like inthat diagram we've all seen
(04:03):
before, like the circle with thes-curve.
The s-curve is that dynamicrelationship between the two.
So it's cool that us as atrinity are able to kind of
co-fertilize and co-create.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So look forward to that continued process and I
have definitely been, uh,enjoying springtime in mount
shasta, california, after apretty long, wet, cold winter,
and it's been really beautifulto see our forsythia, which is
kind of the begin of springtime,bloom for like two weeks and
(04:35):
then now all the yellow flowershave gone and now it's our lilac
bush.
This year we have two that areblooming so beautifully in the
purple flowers and it reminds meof Arlene's lilac branch
illustration that representslike winter and the shedding.
And now we've got this reallybeautiful lilac bush that is
(04:55):
fully in that blooming, fragrant, expanding kind of cycle, kind
of cycle.
So I'm curious to hear from you, omar, what is this feeling for
you to go from the budding thatwe talked about last time to
now this opening up, and we'renot even at the maximum height
of that season of summer openingand blooming.
(05:18):
But I'm just curious, what hasthat opening energy been like
for you?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I so appreciate that question, belinda, because just
this morning I harvested myfirst two mushrooms from my
garden.
You know, I have this dream ofbecoming a farmer, you know, and
in some ways this is a verylong dream, like I used to when
I was, you know, right out ofcollege.
I remember I was like I eitherwant to be a monk on a mountain
(05:45):
or a farmer in the valley, andsomehow I got stuck being a real
estate developer in the city.
So, now, you know, as I'mreaching my peak Gen X, you know
, life span here I'm kind ofgetting to do all of them all at
once Right, like I am reallykind of creating the space for
kind of a little bit morecontemplation.
(06:06):
I am creating this like ediblefood forest in my garden and,
you know, probably two or threemonths ago I had a hay bale
delivered to my house and youknow I have a couple of areas
that are more shaded, so they'renot like great for growing
plants, and so I was like ohthis would be perfect for
(06:27):
mushrooms.
And so I laid out the hay,watered it.
I got these I think they'recalled wine mushrooms, something
like that and so I put thespores into the hay.
More water, more hay,inoculated it I don't even know
what that word inoculated means.
And now, like yesterday, mydaughter, simone was like Dad,
(06:53):
you have two mushrooms growing.
And so this morning I harvestedone of them and, like, sauteed
it with a little garlic andbutter and made my daughter's
omelets with fresh mushrooms andbasil from the garden.
And so, you know, I just andthat's, you know, the mushrooms.
What you see is the fruitingpart, right, you're not seeing
the mycelial network sort ofbelow ground.
(07:15):
And I feel like that's a littlebit of what this wayfinding
practice is is like, oh okay,the mushroom is just like little
fruit.
It's actually not the tree,right, it's not this mycelial
network below.
And so how do we start payingattention to these things?
And this season, you know,we're getting to do it with an
expert, with Paul.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So, Paul, before we go into our Gratitude Blooming
card practice, I'd love to hearfrom you a little bit of just
what is going on in the Chinesewheel of time this season as we
transition from spring to summer.
What does that mean in yourlineage?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, so I think last time we talked about the
budding process, right, which issort of the transition from
spring to summer.
Spring is about the germinationand sprouting and so now the bud
is growing bigger and actuallystarting to reach that
transition where the potentialenergy in the bud starts to open
(08:19):
and to flourish.
And also, a lot of people I wantto bring in also have heard of
the year of the snake.
There's not just an animalrelated to the year but also the
month, so there's actually 12months, also the 12 animals, so
we're actually in the month ofthe snake, so a lot of kind of
double snake, year of the snake,month of the snake, so that
(08:41):
energy is very strong, so, justlike the snake perhaps relates
to this kind of twists and turns, which this year has certainly
brought a lot of twists andturns and also a lot of sudden
stops and starts, right, kind ofthis unpredictability, right
like a snake that suddenly stopsand then certainly maybe lunges
.
So, and also that relates toanother symbol, right,
(09:05):
mythological or shamanic orchemical, which is fire, which
also has a kind of nature oflike dancing and expanding and
contracting and moving indifferent directions.
So in this month I would saywhat I'd like to tie to to make
it more embodied right.
All these are kind of symbolsthat we can think of expanded as
(09:27):
cosmological or a little bitmore contracted as natural in
nature or even socialapplications and also like for
our own physical, individualhealth and cultivating our own
personal energy.
So that relates to the center,the fire center in our bodies,
which is the heart center.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And how do we take care of ourselves as we are
going from the budding to theblooming?
I mean, how is that on a veryphysical, primal level, paul
Like, do you have as a Chinesemedicine doctor?
You know, how do we take careof the heart in this season?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, exactly.
So a lot of my patientsactually are coming in with like
to their heart, physically butalso psychoemotionally.
So, especially in Chinesemedicine we say that the yin and
yang valences of the quality wecall emotions related to the
(10:26):
heart you can say the yang fireemotion and the yin fire emotion
are this interplay betweenanxiety and one of my favorite
awe.
And so that kind of feeling ofbudding and expansion and
flourishing can, if you frame ita certain way or or maybe it's
in its raw form, can feel likeanxiety, like oh, there's too
(10:48):
much energy kind of radiatingoutwards.
But with certain practices orwith certain alchemical
reframing or playing with thisenergy, you can transform it
into rather whoa, whoa, whoa offinstead of overwhelm, and even
very sort of tangibly bloodpressure right and heart rate,
(11:13):
which then affects all theorgans and tissues because
that's the circulation system.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So my understanding is that in Chinese the word xian
means heart or heart, mind, andI always thought it was sort of
interesting, that sort of maybeWestern culture said oh, let me
focus on the mindfulness partand maybe less so on the
heartfulness part, and so isthere something in the concept
(11:41):
of Xian that is appropriate forthis season as well?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
That's beautiful and that's true, and that's true.
Yaxin is translated as headcenter, or mental mentation,
cogitation, as well as oursentiments, our affectations,
and so what's great for this, touse that as a meme is that a
reminder to bridge the two?
(12:06):
It's not either or.
So the way I put it, it's notjust to be in your head as this
kind of philosopher, sage, butdisconnected from what I call
the healing or the artistic orthe poetic aspect in our hearts.
For some people that's a hugeravine or gulf between the head
and heart.
It feels like light yearsdistance, even though for most
(12:26):
people it's just maybe a foot orso or 30, 40 centimeters.
For our, for our non-usa metricsystem, people, um and so xing,
and actually a lot of chinesecharacters have the xing as a
root.
So, for instance, emotion isqing, right.
So on the left side of thecharacter for qing is xing,
(12:49):
which is this heart, mind, uhsort of synergy, and on the
right side is Qing, which is thecolor green, which is my
favorite color, partly becauseit's the midway of the rainbow
right.
So it's kind of the balancefrom red, orange, violet, these
kind of warmer colors, on theleft side, let's say, and on the
(13:10):
right side is blue, indigo,violet, right going into the
ultraviolet Green.
Qing is actually right at thecenter.
So this character, qing, whichincorporates, like you said,
qing, heart mind, is actuallyplaying with that frequency of
balance.
Can I actually manage, can Iactually acknowledge, can I
actually offer capacity andspace or cultivate it for all my
emotions, but be able to findwhere that kind of seesaw point
(13:34):
is?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
You know I love about that is I think I saw a meme
that humans can distinguish moreshades of green than any other
color, and it's because we'resupposed to be in nature and so
really being able to distinguishwhether something is ripe or
not ripe, or you know, you knowwhat is sort of safe versus what
(13:56):
is poisonous, and so, yeah, Ilove this connection between the
heart, this color green, andlike how do we actually connect
to nature?
I'm deeply curious whatgratitude blooming card is going
to be revealed given this setup, and I love that our green back
of the card is literally thepeak springtime green.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It can feel a little too much for some people, but I
remember when Arlene and I werelooking at what color to choose,
we really wanted it to besomething that was very alive.
And so, as Omar, you're showingus the digital card deck for us
to do our practice, I'm feelinginspired to work with what Paul
(14:47):
had framed.
In this season there's a littlebit of that stop and go,
traffic, energy or this sense ofanxiety and overwhelm, but also
this potentiality for all.
So I feel like maybe theinquiry is something like how do
we, what does nature want totell us in terms of like when
we're in that moment ofoverwhelm?
How do we shift it into and anynumbers.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
We got 39 cards in in our digital deck six columns,
seven rows any number speakingto you or row speaking to you.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
This is my vanna white moment I say, stop here in
this row and, dr paul, we'llhave you pick what is going to
allow us to be more in awe solet's do column number four from
the left all right right here.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yes, here we go how to navigate anxiety and awe.
And we're speaking that to oneof our favorite plants.
For me, it's the lavender card,number 18, represented by the
daisy.
So when the artist arlene kimsuda illustrated these two
(16:07):
daisies that you're kind of havean aerial view looking down on,
they looked back at her andsaid the word simplicity.
And the prompt is if you wereto simplify your life, what
would you choose to keep?
Well, I feel like with yourquestion, belinda, if you're
(16:29):
presented with anxiety or awe,what would you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
choose to keep.
Well, in some ways, what I loveabout this question and the way
that it's framed is it is justfocusing on what's core, what
matters most, and clearing therest out of your field, your
focus.
In some ways, that's kind of aneasier way to look at
(16:53):
simplicity, right Like whatmatters the most, and it's
interesting, this idea ofworking with potentiality, of
summer, right Like what happenswhen you've got 10 things
slightly budding, like how doyou pick which ones have the
most potential?
There is a little bit ofprioritization.
(17:15):
I think that's required.
I feel that sometimes I'm in acycle of my life where I'm not
going to go after all 10 buds.
I'm going to maybe pick threeor two.
I feel like there's this wisdomof discernment here.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
How about you, paul?
Anything?
Come up for you, as these twodaisies stare deeply into our
eyes or maybe I'm projecting.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
This theme right simplicity has come up a lot for
us in the last season, so it'samazing that it's come up again
as a reminder to.
I think last time I talkedabout essentialize and kind of
like Belinda said, like choosingwhich of the 10 buds are most
important to you based on yourcore principles, and say three
of them Right and let the otherseven maybe prune them, and so
(18:02):
you can invest in sort of lessis more qualitatively.
And then also just as a kind ofa share in terms of working with
my clients that, like I said,anxiety has come up a lot and
one way that I've sort ofalchemized that with them is
that say you have anxietybecause you know to catch a
(18:23):
flight or even something moreserious perhaps, like one of my
clients, his mother is diagnosedwith cancer and has a lot of
anxiety.
One of my clients, his mother isdiagnosed with cancer and has a
lot of anxiety about theuncertainty and that can be
overwhelming if it's just framedas that.
So to fully acknowledge thatcultivate capacity, that the
anxiety has arisen.
But can you also kind ofcircumambulate that say flame of
(18:46):
anxiety, shame of anxiety, andinstead of just seeing it in one
angle, see it from another sideand say that what is it that
actually is at the core of thisanxiety?
Is actually that you love yourmom so much, there's so much
concern and care for her.
And that can then maybe expandyou to say like wow, I'm so
lucky to have a mother like thisthat I care about so much,
(19:09):
because not everyone does have amother like this that I care
about so much because noteveryone does.
So it's like okay, maybe notgood riddance.
But, like, the relationshipisn't this beautiful, and so
there's a beauty to the anxietyif you can see that at the core
is a steep love and care andconcern, in this case for the
uncertainty right of someonethat you don't want to lose.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I feel like you gave us a very Taoist answer, paul,
when you said between anxietyand awe, I choose love.
That's what I'm choosing tofocus on and I love that you
reminded us that we did pullthis card Simplicity a couple
months ago, but we were all inthree different spaces and times
(19:51):
times and yet all kind ofpulled this card.
And I just had this experiencea couple weeks ago on a medicine
walk and we had the gratitudeblooming card decks with us and
as I was shuffling, one fell outand it was the destiny card and
I was like, oh, wow, okay, thisis is beautiful.
And then my friend shuffled thecard and he got destiny.
(20:13):
And then the third person thatwas hiking with us, she shuffled
the card and also got destiny.
And I had never experiencedthat.
And I and I feel like one ofthe lessons that I've been
taking from your focus onwayfinding with us this season
is that the reminders come overand over and over again.
(20:34):
you know, and and yet we, wecontinue to forget over and over
and over again, and so you knowmaybe, paul, it'd be great to
hear a little bit about how doessimplicity help us remember.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Wow, the essence of the plant is invested from root
to stem, and then the leaves aresort of these solar panels that
again eventually concentratelike an elixir to use a comical
term at the bud.
And here we are, and we canthink of it as not every bud
blooms, and also we can think ofit as this we can imagine it is
(21:13):
it an annual or is it what Iprefer, like a perennial
blooming, right?
And so the reminders are thatthere's these cycles, right, and
there's actually somethingcalled perennial philosophy and,
to use another metaphor thatwas actually not a metaphor, you
mentioned the mushrooms, right?
So the idea of perennialphilosophy is that there is a
forgetting and there is areimagining and a remembering
(21:37):
throughout different culturesand time.
Sometimes I say that you know,sort of as a mystic, and
everything that can be said andneeds to be said at essence has
already been said.
You know, since time immemorial,since time immemorial, and the
mystics, even though they tuneinto the ineffable, can't stop
(21:58):
effing Because we have this kindof forgetting and going back
into the mystery and then alsothe awe of remembering, like,
wow, I totally forgot that story, but the way that you told it,
as a trickster or as an artist,is in a very unique and new way.
And so, as we're on thisthreshold of spring, because
(22:20):
summer solstice, right ismidsummer the max.
So here we're at early summer,right, say in May, and late
summer will be July.
So we're on that threshold ofbudding and again this word
blooming, right, gratitudeblooming Every time we have a
choice to remember and thenconnect to those people, places
and things like pilgrimage orlike, say, a sangha, right,
(22:42):
assuming that you don't knowwhat you don't know or you don't
know what you forgot, right.
So, in my kind of connection tomy teachers, like sometimes it
would be eight years in right,and then they say something I'm
like, oh my God, I totallyforgot that.
But there's a moment of likerelief and joy and all like wow.
I don't beat myself up forforgetting, but I actually have
(23:03):
a joy and enjoying theremembrance.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I love that reminder, Paul.
I mean that's part of thereason why you and I, with the
Hestia Magic Retreat Center,we're always going back to the
land for these critical turningpoints where it's the peak
energy of each season, and I'mgetting excited now for our
summer solstice on the BigIsland coming up in middle of
(23:28):
June.
To keep remembering togetherbecause I feel like this is also
something that's very alive forme right now is just this idea
of a global village.
You know, how can we feeldeeply connected to each other
and share similar values and notlive in close proximity to each
(23:48):
other?
You know, we are living in timeswhere there is a lot of
reinvention of the old ancientways, and just the fact that the
three of us can be in threedifferent lands and be
connecting to Earth at the sametime and getting the same
message from the daisies is kindof a miracle for our times.
(24:09):
So I'm just feeling a lot ofgratitude and also noticing a
lot of daisies on the land andhow they Omar.
I remember there was this oneepisode where we were talking
about the dandelions and Irealized, hearing you talk about
how dandelions open and closeto the sun, the daisies are kind
of their cousin and they do thesame thing, do the same thing.
(24:38):
And it's just such aninteresting practice of how do
we open ourselves up topossibility and to the light and
even as simple and literal asgoing out into the sun in the
morning.
I was able to do that thismorning with one of our
sabbatical guests and weliterally just stood there
facing the sun in the morningfor like five minutes and it was
like that was an awe moment.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
What I appreciate is this balance of remembering and
forgetting.
You know, and as you weretelling your reflection, paul,
you know it reminded me that thescience is that you create the
three R's, the reminders, theroutines, the rewards, right,
and you know it's like what arereminders and that's what the
(25:21):
Gratitude Booming Card decks are.
They're these physicalreminders and this routine of
like allowing us to sort ofreflect.
But then how do we celebratethat as well, and one of the
cool things that we have tocelebrate is incredible music.
We have the Grammy-winningartist Ariel Lowe produced
(25:42):
several songs, includingSimplicity, which you can find
on Spotify or wherever youlisten to music.
But we will also share in oursub stack in our sub stack.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
So, yeah, we're excited to have you all go to
our sub stack atgrad2bloomingsubstackcom to find
out more of the stories of theplants.
We're going to be literallyexcavating all the stories of
the plant itself, the artworkand previous podcast episodes,
and also just the story of thenow and what's unfolding in this
moment through Season 4 of thepodcast, and that's also a great
way for you all to support us.
(26:22):
We do have a paid subscriptionon Substack where we will have
bonus practices.
Dr Paul will be sharing aspecial practice for the season.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Arlene's got new art coming.
She's been working on theseamazing watercolors, so there's
just a lot of richness in thissoil.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, so we hope to have you all continue that
conversation on Substack.
Follow Omar's journey as thetrickster.
Where can we find you onSubstack, there, omar.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Trickster's Guide to Immortality.
So trickstersguidesubstackcom,and we'll put all of this in the
show notes, and we are alsowelcoming Hestia to Substack as
well.
So the retreat centers there'slots of blooming happening.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, and we're going to have discounts for all of
our friends here for our on-landtime as well for summer
solstice.
So we'll put that in the shownotes for those of you that want
to practice on the land.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, if something resonated with you today, we'd
love to hear it.
Leave us a message, a review,or simply share this episode
with a friend.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
We look forward to seeing you for our next episode.
Until next time, may your heartstay open and your way be
guided by gratitude.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Awesome.
Until next time, cheers, cheers, bye, thank you.
Hello Belinda, hey Omar, welcome folks to the
Gratitude Blooming podcast.
We are exploring the art ofwayfinding through this season
and the most recent episode wasaround budding with spring and I
can't tell you how much I'vepaid attention to the little
(00:30):
buds on trees and plants like Ihave never before.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
And I'm excited to continue the journey of the grad
two blooming card practice todraw one card inspired by the
original plant drawings from ourco-host of the podcast, arlene
Kim Suda, and just seeing whatwants to emerge from just taking
a pause with nature, what ishappening in this moment, in
(00:59):
this season, in this cycle inthis cycle.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's been beautiful to have the cards guide us and
now really paying attention tohow nature is guiding us, and to
be joined by our special guest,dr Paul Wong, so that way we
really are drawing from sort ofancient traditions as well.
And so now we have cards, wehave nature, we have lineage,
all these tools no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And it's so cool now, omar, we've been doing this
podcast for a couple of years,and so we've had many seasons
throughout the years, and thisspring is different from the
spring last year, and I remembergoing back to our origin days
when I invited you to come forthe first time to our land in
Mount Shasta, california, toexplore a new possibility of
(02:15):
bringing our passion forgratitude into a collaborative
effort.
I mean, that was a couple yearsago, 2021.
Can you believe it?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, I think we're at over 120 podcast episodes at
this point, so I can absolutelybelieve that we have been
through some seasons together.
But I think what's exciting isthat things keep growing right,
like new ideas kind of keepcoming and then new soil sort of
appears for us to plant thoseseeds and then new partners to
(02:46):
help us sort of water andnurture this ecosystem.
And I think that, for me, iswhat subsac has been, this place
to kind of really expand ourecosystem.
I know that I've been having ablast with my tricksters guide
to immortality.
I've got new comic characterswith monkey, king and the heart,
and then I've just created awhole meme series without soot
(03:09):
called the forgotten footnotesof the dao, and so I can't wait
to welcome gratitude bloomingonto substack so that we can
grow this ecosystem even more.
And that's going to include drpaul's daology work, and so I I
think in the Tao and Paul youcan correct me this is that in
the beginning there was one, andone created two, two created
(03:33):
three and three created 10,000things, and so I think that's
really at the level of growththat we're starting to play out.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I love that you quoted the Tao.
So you know the one is kind ofinert.
The two creates a possibilityof relationship, which is
actually the three right.
The two is kind of maybethey're just sitting there the
yin and the yang, but like inthat diagram we've all seen
(04:03):
before, like the circle with thes-curve.
The s-curve is that dynamicrelationship between the two.
So it's cool that us as atrinity are able to kind of
co-fertilize and co-create.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So look forward to that continued process and I
have definitely been, uh,enjoying springtime in mount
shasta, california, after apretty long, wet, cold winter,
and it's been really beautifulto see our forsythia, which is
kind of the begin of springtime,bloom for like two weeks and
(04:35):
then now all the yellow flowershave gone and now it's our lilac
bush.
This year we have two that areblooming so beautifully in the
purple flowers and it reminds meof Arlene's lilac branch
illustration that representslike winter and the shedding.
And now we've got this reallybeautiful lilac bush that is
(04:55):
fully in that blooming, fragrant, expanding kind of cycle, kind
of cycle.
So I'm curious to hear from you, omar, what is this feeling for
you to go from the budding thatwe talked about last time to
now this opening up, and we'renot even at the maximum height
of that season of summer openingand blooming.
(05:18):
But I'm just curious, what hasthat opening energy been like
for you?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I so appreciate that question, belinda, because just
this morning I harvested myfirst two mushrooms from my
garden.
You know, I have this dream ofbecoming a farmer, you know, and
in some ways this is a verylong dream, like I used to when
I was, you know, right out ofcollege.
I remember I was like I eitherwant to be a monk on a mountain
(05:45):
or a farmer in the valley, andsomehow I got stuck being a real
estate developer in the city.
So, now, you know, as I'mreaching my peak Gen X, you know
, life span here I'm kind ofgetting to do all of them all at
once Right, like I am reallykind of creating the space for
kind of a little bit morecontemplation.
(06:06):
I am creating this like ediblefood forest in my garden and,
you know, probably two or threemonths ago I had a hay bale
delivered to my house and youknow I have a couple of areas
that are more shaded, so they'renot like great for growing
plants, and so I was like ohthis would be perfect for
(06:27):
mushrooms.
And so I laid out the hay,watered it.
I got these I think they'recalled wine mushrooms, something
like that and so I put thespores into the hay.
More water, more hay,inoculated it I don't even know
what that word inoculated means.
And now, like yesterday, mydaughter, simone was like Dad,
(06:53):
you have two mushrooms growing.
And so this morning I harvestedone of them and, like, sauteed
it with a little garlic andbutter and made my daughter's
omelets with fresh mushrooms andbasil from the garden.
And so, you know, I just andthat's, you know, the mushrooms.
What you see is the fruitingpart, right, you're not seeing
the mycelial network sort ofbelow ground.
(07:15):
And I feel like that's a littlebit of what this wayfinding
practice is is like, oh okay,the mushroom is just like little
fruit.
It's actually not the tree,right, it's not this mycelial
network below.
And so how do we start payingattention to these things?
And this season, you know,we're getting to do it with an
expert, with Paul.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So, Paul, before we go into our Gratitude Blooming
card practice, I'd love to hearfrom you a little bit of just
what is going on in the Chinesewheel of time this season as we
transition from spring to summer.
What does that mean in yourlineage?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, so I think last time we talked about the
budding process, right, which issort of the transition from
spring to summer.
Spring is about the germinationand sprouting and so now the bud
is growing bigger and actuallystarting to reach that
transition where the potentialenergy in the bud starts to open
(08:19):
and to flourish.
And also, a lot of people I wantto bring in also have heard of
the year of the snake.
There's not just an animalrelated to the year but also the
month, so there's actually 12months, also the 12 animals, so
we're actually in the month ofthe snake, so a lot of kind of
double snake, year of the snake,month of the snake, so that
(08:41):
energy is very strong, so, justlike the snake perhaps relates
to this kind of twists and turns, which this year has certainly
brought a lot of twists andturns and also a lot of sudden
stops and starts, right, kind ofthis unpredictability, right
like a snake that suddenly stopsand then certainly maybe lunges
.
So, and also that relates toanother symbol, right,
(09:05):
mythological or shamanic orchemical, which is fire, which
also has a kind of nature oflike dancing and expanding and
contracting and moving indifferent directions.
So in this month I would saywhat I'd like to tie to to make
it more embodied right.
All these are kind of symbolsthat we can think of expanded as
(09:27):
cosmological or a little bitmore contracted as natural in
nature or even socialapplications and also like for
our own physical, individualhealth and cultivating our own
personal energy.
So that relates to the center,the fire center in our bodies,
which is the heart center.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And how do we take care of ourselves as we are
going from the budding to theblooming?
I mean, how is that on a veryphysical, primal level, paul
Like, do you have as a Chinesemedicine doctor?
You know, how do we take careof the heart in this season?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, exactly.
So a lot of my patientsactually are coming in with like
to their heart, physically butalso psychoemotionally.
So, especially in Chinesemedicine we say that the yin and
yang valences of the quality wecall emotions related to the
(10:26):
heart you can say the yang fireemotion and the yin fire emotion
are this interplay betweenanxiety and one of my favorite
awe.
And so that kind of feeling ofbudding and expansion and
flourishing can, if you frame ita certain way or or maybe it's
in its raw form, can feel likeanxiety, like oh, there's too
(10:48):
much energy kind of radiatingoutwards.
But with certain practices orwith certain alchemical
reframing or playing with thisenergy, you can transform it
into rather whoa, whoa, whoa offinstead of overwhelm, and even
very sort of tangibly bloodpressure right and heart rate,
(11:13):
which then affects all theorgans and tissues because
that's the circulation system.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So my understanding is that in Chinese the word xian
means heart or heart, mind, andI always thought it was sort of
interesting, that sort of maybeWestern culture said oh, let me
focus on the mindfulness partand maybe less so on the
heartfulness part, and so isthere something in the concept
(11:41):
of Xian that is appropriate forthis season as well?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
That's beautiful and that's true, and that's true.
Yaxin is translated as headcenter, or mental mentation,
cogitation, as well as oursentiments, our affectations,
and so what's great for this, touse that as a meme is that a
reminder to bridge the two?
(12:06):
It's not either or.
So the way I put it, it's notjust to be in your head as this
kind of philosopher, sage, butdisconnected from what I call
the healing or the artistic orthe poetic aspect in our hearts.
For some people that's a hugeravine or gulf between the head
and heart.
It feels like light yearsdistance, even though for most
(12:26):
people it's just maybe a foot orso or 30, 40 centimeters.
For our, for our non-usa metricsystem, people, um and so xing,
and actually a lot of chinesecharacters have the xing as a
root.
So, for instance, emotion isqing, right.
So on the left side of thecharacter for qing is xing,
(12:49):
which is this heart, mind, uhsort of synergy, and on the
right side is Qing, which is thecolor green, which is my
favorite color, partly becauseit's the midway of the rainbow
right.
So it's kind of the balancefrom red, orange, violet, these
kind of warmer colors, on theleft side, let's say, and on the
(13:10):
right side is blue, indigo,violet, right going into the
ultraviolet Green.
Qing is actually right at thecenter.
So this character, qing, whichincorporates, like you said,
qing, heart mind, is actuallyplaying with that frequency of
balance.
Can I actually manage, can Iactually acknowledge, can I
actually offer capacity andspace or cultivate it for all my
emotions, but be able to findwhere that kind of seesaw point
(13:34):
is?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
You know I love about that is I think I saw a meme
that humans can distinguish moreshades of green than any other
color, and it's because we'resupposed to be in nature and so
really being able to distinguishwhether something is ripe or
not ripe, or you know, you knowwhat is sort of safe versus what
(13:56):
is poisonous, and so, yeah, Ilove this connection between the
heart, this color green, andlike how do we actually connect
to nature?
I'm deeply curious whatgratitude blooming card is going
to be revealed given this setup, and I love that our green back
of the card is literally thepeak springtime green.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It can feel a little too much for some people, but I
remember when Arlene and I werelooking at what color to choose,
we really wanted it to besomething that was very alive.
And so, as Omar, you're showingus the digital card deck for us
to do our practice, I'm feelinginspired to work with what Paul
(14:47):
had framed.
In this season there's a littlebit of that stop and go,
traffic, energy or this sense ofanxiety and overwhelm, but also
this potentiality for all.
So I feel like maybe theinquiry is something like how do
we, what does nature want totell us in terms of like when
we're in that moment ofoverwhelm?
How do we shift it into and anynumbers.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
We got 39 cards in in our digital deck six columns,
seven rows any number speakingto you or row speaking to you.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
This is my vanna white moment I say, stop here in
this row and, dr paul, we'llhave you pick what is going to
allow us to be more in awe solet's do column number four from
the left all right right here.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yes, here we go how to navigate anxiety and awe.
And we're speaking that to oneof our favorite plants.
For me, it's the lavender card,number 18, represented by the
daisy.
So when the artist arlene kimsuda illustrated these two
(16:07):
daisies that you're kind of havean aerial view looking down on,
they looked back at her andsaid the word simplicity.
And the prompt is if you wereto simplify your life, what
would you choose to keep?
Well, I feel like with yourquestion, belinda, if you're
(16:29):
presented with anxiety or awe,what would you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
choose to keep.
Well, in some ways, what I loveabout this question and the way
that it's framed is it is justfocusing on what's core, what
matters most, and clearing therest out of your field, your
focus.
In some ways, that's kind of aneasier way to look at
(16:53):
simplicity, right Like whatmatters the most, and it's
interesting, this idea ofworking with potentiality, of
summer, right Like what happenswhen you've got 10 things
slightly budding, like how doyou pick which ones have the
most potential?
There is a little bit ofprioritization.
(17:15):
I think that's required.
I feel that sometimes I'm in acycle of my life where I'm not
going to go after all 10 buds.
I'm going to maybe pick threeor two.
I feel like there's this wisdomof discernment here.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
How about you, paul?
Anything?
Come up for you, as these twodaisies stare deeply into our
eyes or maybe I'm projecting.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
This theme right simplicity has come up a lot for
us in the last season, so it'samazing that it's come up again
as a reminder to.
I think last time I talkedabout essentialize and kind of
like Belinda said, like choosingwhich of the 10 buds are most
important to you based on yourcore principles, and say three
of them Right and let the otherseven maybe prune them, and so
(18:02):
you can invest in sort of lessis more qualitatively.
And then also just as a kind ofa share in terms of working with
my clients that, like I said,anxiety has come up a lot and
one way that I've sort ofalchemized that with them is
that say you have anxietybecause you know to catch a
(18:23):
flight or even something moreserious perhaps, like one of my
clients, his mother is diagnosedwith cancer and has a lot of
anxiety.
One of my clients, his mother isdiagnosed with cancer and has a
lot of anxiety about theuncertainty and that can be
overwhelming if it's just framedas that.
So to fully acknowledge thatcultivate capacity, that the
anxiety has arisen.
But can you also kind ofcircumambulate that say flame of
(18:46):
anxiety, shame of anxiety, andinstead of just seeing it in one
angle, see it from another sideand say that what is it that
actually is at the core of thisanxiety?
Is actually that you love yourmom so much, there's so much
concern and care for her.
And that can then maybe expandyou to say like wow, I'm so
lucky to have a mother like thisthat I care about so much,
(19:09):
because not everyone does have amother like this that I care
about so much because noteveryone does.
So it's like okay, maybe notgood riddance.
But, like, the relationshipisn't this beautiful, and so
there's a beauty to the anxietyif you can see that at the core
is a steep love and care andconcern, in this case for the
uncertainty right of someonethat you don't want to lose.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I feel like you gave us a very Taoist answer, paul,
when you said between anxietyand awe, I choose love.
That's what I'm choosing tofocus on and I love that you
reminded us that we did pullthis card Simplicity a couple
months ago, but we were all inthree different spaces and times
(19:51):
times and yet all kind ofpulled this card.
And I just had this experiencea couple weeks ago on a medicine
walk and we had the gratitudeblooming card decks with us and
as I was shuffling, one fell outand it was the destiny card and
I was like, oh, wow, okay, thisis is beautiful.
And then my friend shuffled thecard and he got destiny.
(20:13):
And then the third person thatwas hiking with us, she shuffled
the card and also got destiny.
And I had never experiencedthat.
And I and I feel like one ofthe lessons that I've been
taking from your focus onwayfinding with us this season
is that the reminders come overand over and over again.
(20:34):
you know, and and yet we, wecontinue to forget over and over
and over again, and so you knowmaybe, paul, it'd be great to
hear a little bit about how doessimplicity help us remember.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Wow, the essence of the plant is invested from root
to stem, and then the leaves aresort of these solar panels that
again eventually concentratelike an elixir to use a comical
term at the bud.
And here we are, and we canthink of it as not every bud
blooms, and also we can think ofit as this we can imagine it is
(21:13):
it an annual or is it what Iprefer, like a perennial
blooming, right?
And so the reminders are thatthere's these cycles, right, and
there's actually somethingcalled perennial philosophy and,
to use another metaphor thatwas actually not a metaphor, you
mentioned the mushrooms, right?
So the idea of perennialphilosophy is that there is a
forgetting and there is areimagining and a remembering
(21:37):
throughout different culturesand time.
Sometimes I say that you know,sort of as a mystic, and
everything that can be said andneeds to be said at essence has
already been said.
You know, since time immemorial,since time immemorial, and the
mystics, even though they tuneinto the ineffable, can't stop
(21:58):
effing Because we have this kindof forgetting and going back
into the mystery and then alsothe awe of remembering, like,
wow, I totally forgot that story, but the way that you told it,
as a trickster or as an artist,is in a very unique and new way.
And so, as we're on thisthreshold of spring, because
(22:20):
summer solstice, right ismidsummer the max.
So here we're at early summer,right, say in May, and late
summer will be July.
So we're on that threshold ofbudding and again this word
blooming, right, gratitudeblooming Every time we have a
choice to remember and thenconnect to those people, places
and things like pilgrimage orlike, say, a sangha, right,
(22:42):
assuming that you don't knowwhat you don't know or you don't
know what you forgot, right.
So, in my kind of connection tomy teachers, like sometimes it
would be eight years in right,and then they say something I'm
like, oh my God, I totallyforgot that.
But there's a moment of likerelief and joy and all like wow.
I don't beat myself up forforgetting, but I actually have
(23:03):
a joy and enjoying theremembrance.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I love that reminder, Paul.
I mean that's part of thereason why you and I, with the
Hestia Magic Retreat Center,we're always going back to the
land for these critical turningpoints where it's the peak
energy of each season, and I'mgetting excited now for our
summer solstice on the BigIsland coming up in middle of
(23:28):
June.
To keep remembering togetherbecause I feel like this is also
something that's very alive forme right now is just this idea
of a global village.
You know, how can we feeldeeply connected to each other
and share similar values and notlive in close proximity to each
(23:48):
other?
You know, we are living in timeswhere there is a lot of
reinvention of the old ancientways, and just the fact that the
three of us can be in threedifferent lands and be
connecting to Earth at the sametime and getting the same
message from the daisies is kindof a miracle for our times.
(24:09):
So I'm just feeling a lot ofgratitude and also noticing a
lot of daisies on the land andhow they Omar.
I remember there was this oneepisode where we were talking
about the dandelions and Irealized, hearing you talk about
how dandelions open and closeto the sun, the daisies are kind
of their cousin and they do thesame thing, do the same thing.
(24:38):
And it's just such aninteresting practice of how do
we open ourselves up topossibility and to the light and
even as simple and literal asgoing out into the sun in the
morning.
I was able to do that thismorning with one of our
sabbatical guests and weliterally just stood there
facing the sun in the morningfor like five minutes and it was
like that was an awe moment.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
What I appreciate is this balance of remembering and
forgetting.
You know, and as you weretelling your reflection, paul,
you know it reminded me that thescience is that you create the
three R's, the reminders, theroutines, the rewards, right,
and you know it's like what arereminders and that's what the
(25:21):
Gratitude Booming Card decks are.
They're these physicalreminders and this routine of
like allowing us to sort ofreflect.
But then how do we celebratethat as well, and one of the
cool things that we have tocelebrate is incredible music.
We have the Grammy-winningartist Ariel Lowe produced
(25:42):
several songs, includingSimplicity, which you can find
on Spotify or wherever youlisten to music.
But we will also share in oursub stack in our sub stack.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
So, yeah, we're excited to have you all go to
our sub stack atgrad2bloomingsubstackcom to find
out more of the stories of theplants.
We're going to be literallyexcavating all the stories of
the plant itself, the artworkand previous podcast episodes,
and also just the story of thenow and what's unfolding in this
moment through Season 4 of thepodcast, and that's also a great
way for you all to support us.
(26:22):
We do have a paid subscriptionon Substack where we will have
bonus practices.
Dr Paul will be sharing aspecial practice for the season.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Arlene's got new art coming.
She's been working on theseamazing watercolors, so there's
just a lot of richness in thissoil.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, so we hope to have you all continue that
conversation on Substack.
Follow Omar's journey as thetrickster.
Where can we find you onSubstack, there, omar.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Trickster's Guide to Immortality.
So trickstersguidesubstackcom,and we'll put all of this in the
show notes, and we are alsowelcoming Hestia to Substack as
well.
So the retreat centers there'slots of blooming happening.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, and we're going to have discounts for all of
our friends here for our on-landtime as well for summer
solstice.
So we'll put that in the shownotes for those of you that want
to practice on the land.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, if something resonated with you today, we'd
love to hear it.
Leave us a message, a review,or simply share this episode
with a friend.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
We look forward to seeing you for our next episode.
Until next time, may your heartstay open and your way be
guided by gratitude.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Awesome.
Until next time, cheers, cheers, bye, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!