July 9, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, Melissa Brown sits down with Dr. Carol McKinley, President and CEO of Simpson Senior Services, for a powerful conversation about how senior living providers can use AI to revolutionize care delivery.
Dr. McKinley shares her deeply personal journey into senior care, the inspiration behind her passion for innovation, and how Simpson is using AMBA’s passive AI monitoring to spot critical health changes before they become emergencies.
You’ll hear how this technology is:
- Reducing falls and hospital visits
- Supporting frontline staff through real-time alerts
- Improving family communication and resident confidence
- Making data meaningful—even for non-clinical leaders
Plus, learn how Simpson’s unique Tech Bar is empowering residents to take ownership of their health and wellbeing through hands-on access to smart health tools.
If you’ve been burned by AI that promised everything and delivered little, this episode will restore your faith in what’s possible when technology is built for senior care instead of added onto it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:00):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
You're listening to Gravity Healthcare Hacks with
your host, Melissa Brown, ChiefOperating Officer from Gravity
Healthcare Consulting andself-professed healthcare nerd.
Monthly, we will provideindustry expertise and tips to
help keep your feet firmly onthe ground in the world of
healthcare.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to our podcast today.
I am thrilled to have Dr.
Carol McKinley on our podcasttoday.
She's the president and CEO ofSimpson, a senior living
community in Pennsylvania.
Welcome, Dr.
McKinley.
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So, you know, Carol, I recentlyheard you talk for the first
time and I could not get thethings that you said out of my
(00:51):
mind.
I actually had to go back andlisten to that talk again.
I'm blown away by what you'redoing and how you're using AI to
really turn the care continuumupside down.
But I want to talk about allthat in just a minute, but I
think it's helpful for thelisteners.
Level set for us.
Let us know, how did you gethere at Simpson?
What's your journey been like?
So,
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
gosh, you know, I feel old in this space.
I've been in my field for over35 years.
And every time I say that, it's,you know...
It's a long time, and I havealways, from a young age,
desired to work for olderadults, with older adults, and
that was stemmed from my father.
(01:33):
My dad was a minister, and hespent time serving the elderly.
I went out with him on severaloccasions to visit with him in
nursing homes.
I play guitar, so I would helpmy dad with music, and I watched
him and what he did, and Imodeled myself after him in
(01:54):
terms of the care that heprovided to these people.
their dignity, humanity, thevalue that they had.
And I really enjoyed hearingwhat they would share with my
dad.
And then I would just start myown questioning.
So I think you know in yourheart when you are pulled some
(02:15):
direction.
And I really felt that thatbecame a calling for me to be
with older adults.
I only had one grandmother.
And she lived in she lived aboutfive hours or so from us.
And we didn't see her thatoften.
But I went to college in thesame town where she lived.
I didn't live with her, but Iwould go over and help.
(02:38):
her do things.
I went to church with her everySunday.
She always made dinner for me,but I got to know her
surrounding friends.
And again, same kinds ofconversations that I learned
from my dad in terms of whothese people were and what they,
what their lives were like andwhat, you know, they all had
(02:58):
different needs, you know, justI would get, I would go, Get
groceries, not like, you know,like get groceries.
I might help paint.
I help my grandmother paint herporch.
Just things that, you know, as acollege student, you wouldn't
necessarily feel like you wouldbe doing.
But I love that.
I loved feeling needed.
But I also love the fact thatthey shared so many great
(03:22):
stories with me of what theirlife was like as a younger
person.
And I think that that just helpsevolve you.
in terms of what was life likebefore you were around and what
did you miss and what we takefor granted they didn't have.
(03:43):
So it was a very, very importanttime for me in terms of who I
was.
And that's why I decided to gointo seeking an education that
had to do with working witholder
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
adults.
Absolutely.
I love how you talk about itbeing almost like a ministry to
you.
I feel the same way about it,being able to touch so many
humans' lives that unfortunatelycan tend to be left behind by
other people.
And it's interesting, once youcatch the elder bug and you just
love engaging with elders, likeit sticks, you know, you want to
(04:15):
continue to have that in yourlife.
So, you know, I think those ofus that really have a personal
passion for senior care are theones really trying to innovate
and do things in a differentway.
What are you doing that's reallyunique at Simpson?
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
So I think we all work to try to provide quality
care.
And how do we go about doingthat?
In my world, for me, it's tryingto help make something better
before it actually becomes aproblem.
You know, my parents...
My mother's still living.
She's 99 years old and she hascognitive impairment.
(04:57):
My dad passed away in his early90s with COVID.
But as I watched my parents ageand they were living at home for
a really long time.
I found it, first of all, thetown that they lived in, it was
very challenging to findresources to help support the
care that they required.
My dad had advanced Parkinson's,and he was affected by movement,
(05:19):
not typical Parkinson's.
You might see someone withtremors.
My dad really could not move.
I was five hours away, andsometimes he would call me and
say, Carol, I can't get off thecouch.
So I'm thinking, I'm five hoursaway, and my mom's sitting at
the other end of the And shewould be the kind of in her
(05:40):
thought process, well, just getup, you know.
So in thinking about what Iwanted for what we do here at
Simpson is how do I have animpact so that we don't get to
this point where someone is in astressful situation?
that eventually may need them togo to a hospital emergency room.
(06:01):
And my dad hated going to anemergency room.
I probably like the rest of us.
He knew that they were going tosay, we got to run a bunch of
tests.
And that was really not what hewanted.
So I've always been looking atways to how do we help our staff
be more thoughtful as to howthey, um, view our residents and
(06:23):
assess our residents, and how dowe help our families engage in
that process, and how do we helpour residents have some control
over that?
Because that's the otherproblem, because when you're in
your 80s and 90s, weautomatically tend to want to
take care of them and forgetthat they need a boost in this
process, that they get anxiousand they worry, and they want to
(06:48):
tell their story about what'sgoing on.
So So part of that is helpingto, here at Simpson, teach our
teams how you talk about that,how you pick up on that, you
know, from a subjective manner.
You know, you teach people howto see pain.
You teach people how to pick upon discomfort by how someone may
(07:11):
be moving in their chair.
But the other part of that iswhat kind of technology is out
there that helps support that,that can really build help the
staff go from a subjectivethought process to a stronger
critical thinking process.
(07:32):
You know, in our world, and as Ican remember when I was much
younger, our education reallypushed you to critically think,
to analyze, to look at rootcause analysis, to figure out
what was going on.
And I think as our industry haschanged and people are much more
(07:52):
task oriented, and so they arelooking at the black and white
and what task is coming next.
When does the bath happen?
When does the medication happen?
When does the meal come?
And so when we see someone indistress, or when we know
something is off, but we aren'tsure why, we don't always relate
(08:15):
back to that analyticalframework because we haven't
been trained that way.
We've kind of lost the art.
That's my perception.
We have lost the art of criticalthinking.
Also, teachers would agree withyou.
So having a tool through AI thatallows us to see patterns in how
(08:40):
people are responding to theirdaily frame of life, where we
can see what those patterns arewhen those patterns change, have
those critical questions of,well, what's happened?
So for example, and I often havethis conversation about my
(09:02):
mother because she's gotcognitive impairment and she has
a very high pain tolerance or Ifshe has a headache, she won't
tell you and she'll sufferthrough it.
It could be migraine level andyou would never know that.
But when she's not well...
She doesn't have the ability totell you she's not well, but I
(09:27):
may get a call from hercaregiver that says, your mother
is really upset.
She's crying a lot today.
She's crying a lot.
Or your mother didn't sleepwell.
And my first question is, alwaystipping to the biological, is
she brewing something?
Does she have a urinary tractinfection?
Or is there something else goingon?
(09:48):
And Subjectively, again, we canall have guesses around that.
But if you're using AI, and thisis what Simpson is doing today,
we have chosen an AI partnercalled AMBA, and we're able to
look at people's patterns ofdaily life.
And when there's a shift inthose, then we can question what
(10:11):
was that shift that then helpsour staffs respond to that
resident faster.
with hopefully preventing afall, preventing a potential
urinary tract infection or otherinfection, a visit to the urgent
care, a visit to the emergencycare, maybe a change in
(10:35):
medication that was not the bestchange, so modifying someone's
medication regimen.
And that's all done through AI,and that's...
I'm so happy in terms of thetrajectory of my career.
I mean, I've always had kind oflike these visions in my head as
I've gotten older as how do wedo this.
(10:58):
And then I met AMBA and it waslike, you're doing what I've
wanted to do and you've createdthis and this is cool.
And we need to bring you in andpilot and figure out how this
works.
And that's kind of how ourpartnership with AMBA started.
was born.
I just kind of ran into them atan innovation conference, which
(11:21):
I went purposely to aninnovation conference to see
what was going on and what wecould do.
It's kind of like speed dating.
You're at these differentbooths, so you have 15 minutes
of time.
I can tell you, I sat down andwithin five minutes, the founder
of AMBA shared a story with methat was so impactful um i knew
(11:47):
story with us what did she tellyou well it
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
was
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
a gentleman so um uh stew he's the uh founder of amba
and he he was similar to mystory he had a father that he
was trying to help support um interms of his care needs his
father needed more and more careat home and stewart was working
(12:11):
to find different ways to meethis needs.
And so he was exploring varioustypes of technology.
And as he was doing thisexploration, realized, well,
wait a minute, I could work tobring these different types of
care need technology to one wayof doing this, one software.
(12:37):
And I can make this all happenfor my dad.
If I can do this for my dad, Ican work to build this for
others.
And when we were talking, heunderstood the difficulties with
caring for older adults andcaring for your parents.
He and I aligned so well withthat.
And then when he was talkingabout the variety of resources,
(13:01):
as you probably know, there areso many pieces of technology out
there.
I mean, we get inundated withemails of people that have
things that they want us to try.
And the challenge is to findwhat's going to work.
And in this case, I mean, thetechnology they were bringing
(13:23):
was easy.
It was inexpensive.
It was available.
It had a really great dashboardto which the data went to on
real time.
Okay.
Which is also important becausein a community, in a retirement
community or a nursing homeassisted living, your
(13:44):
information is coming from lotsof different people all
throughout the day.
So it's not necessarilyreal-time information.
And AMBA...
comes to us with real-time data24-7.
You have these passive sensorsthat are very small.
One is literally this size,almost a little bigger than a
(14:07):
quarter.
It's a movement sensor that goesabove the doors or in your room.
They have another sensor that'sthe size of an emery board,
fingernail emery board.
It lays on top of the door.
So when the door opens andcloses, it's collecting data.
And then the other sensor we'reusing right now is a sleep pad
(14:28):
that goes under the mattress andmonitors a person's sleep.
Every one of those, first ofall, you wouldn't notice them.
A resident normally wouldn'tnotice them.
They all have strong lives.
So the batteries in the movementsensors are 10-year battery
lives.
Wow.
That's huge.
So I don't have to worry aboutchanging batteries out.
(14:48):
And they're collecting data allday long.
So they...
when AMBA started piloting withus, they put these sensors in
and we could see that for liketwo weeks, just a timeframe of
data that gave us a sense ofwhat this resident's normal
abilities were, sleep patternsand movement to the bathroom,
(15:10):
all that.
And then after that, you nowhave this pattern of data.
So if it shifts, The it willalert my teams to say it might
alert them to a red alert thatsays this person has an imminent
(15:30):
problem.
Like, we know that they sleepall the time and all of a sudden
they're shifting around andgetting up.
So you might think they're goingto fall.
So it would alert a staff personto go immediately go to the room
to check on them.
An amber alert gives a kind oflike a slower response.
And then green seems they're allfine.
So my teams are directed andfocused on the people that have
(15:52):
the red alerts and the greenalert people are doing well.
They don't have to disturb them,you know, but the information
that's gathered by these teammembers is It's stunning.
Let's just talk about sleeppatterns in itself.
When I don't sleep well, myhusband will tell you I'm
(16:14):
grouchy.
Or I have less patience.
My team will probably tell youthat I have less patience.
When an older adult is perceivedas being grouchy, cantankerous,
wobbly...
I doubt that sleep is the firstthing that people think about.
(16:36):
They think about other aspectsof what might have happened
during the day.
But if you just look at theperson's sleep pattern, their
pattern may be normal that theysleep from 8 p.m.
to 7 a.m.
and they may have oneinterruption during the night to
go to the bathroom andeverything's fine.
But if we're tracking sleep andwe have someone who is coming
(17:00):
across more cantankerous orconfused, I mean, if you don't
sleep well, how well do wordscome to you?
So our team can look at that andgo, my goodness, she didn't
sleep well last night.
What was going on last night?
So then our team can startcritically huddling.
(17:21):
They huddle and they can startcritically thinking and looking
at words the electronic medicalrecord.
Did something change in hermedications?
They may look at other patternsthat happened through the
evening.
Did she eat well?
What has changed?
What has changed?
What was going on in thecommunity itself?
Was there loud noises in thearea?
(17:43):
Was it hot?
You're really trying to figureout what has changed.
And it could be as simple as,well, the doctor put her on a
new medication.
And And so let's look at some ofthe aspects of the medication.
And it may be like one of thecommon ones that I think about
(18:05):
is metropolox.
My husband was on that for afibrillation.
Metropolox causes you to dream alot.
And they're very strong, realdreams.
So if you're a new person withmetropolox, that resident may
have been tossing and turningand thus dying.
We might call the doctor backand say, this particular
(18:27):
medication isn't working.
Or the doctor might say, let'stry it over the next few days.
Let me see how her sleeppatterns are.
And so we can monitor that.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
Yeah, because it is a big deal.
And, you know, I've beenfrustrated.
I've been searching for a greatAI platform like this because I
think some of the ones that areout there, they just don't seem
to take the information to thenext level.
Like all the data is there, butunless you're a data analyst,
you'd never be able to figureout what's important.
And I love what you said aboutthe dashboard and like the red
(18:57):
light, like, hey, pay attentionto this person, pay attention to
this data point.
It's going to tell you somethingimportant.
Does AMBA include like motionsensors in their package?
too.
Yeah.
That's one of those things as atherapist I've been thinking
about for years, which is surelypeople's gate pattern and gate
speed and things like thatchange leading up to a fall, you
(19:18):
know, or other illnesses.
And I know that the technologyis very expensive right now for
that kind of motion sensing, butI think in the next five to 10
years, it's going to become alot more affordable.
It'll be exciting to see whatadditional data we can gain and
allow AI to do a lot of thecritical thinking for us and
kind of point the fingers thathere's who you should pay
(19:39):
attention to.
So, you know, knowing some ofthe other things out there, how
do you feel like AMBA isdifferent from some of the other
ones.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
To me, AMBA is different because it's
practical.
It's providing information thatwe need.
And to your point, it's notcomplicated.
I'm not a nurse, but I can lookand see how a pattern has
changed.
If I'm sitting in a huddle as alay person, I can say, well, Her
(20:11):
line's blipped up here.
What happened on that day?
Because we can see historicallyand forward.
So you have the historical data,but you have the real-time data.
But it's not rocket scienceinformation.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
And
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
I think you have to have AI that people have an ease
at using.
Because at any time, peoplethink technology is scary, so
they pull back from it.
But if they find it's useful...
And it's even, even for ourfamily members, they can
understand that.
So, you know, if just sittingdown with a family member at a
care plan meeting to describe tothem that we want to make
(20:50):
another medication change, andthis is why, and be able to show
that, for example, the onemotion sensor is, can be on the,
you can put the motion sensorsanywhere, but we put one motion
sensor on the top of thebathroom door.
So you can see how many timesthe door opens and closes.
And we can see your mother'sbathroom usage has gone way up.
(21:17):
And we're concerned about that.
So we're kind of looking atwhat's going on medically with
her.
We brought this to the attentionof the doctor.
That's strong information thatyou're sharing with the family
and with a resident.
Because if the resident is alertand oriented and capable, you're
sharing with the resident thatyou're showing that you care.
You are critically thinking whatthe concerns are and you're
(21:39):
taking action for it rather thansitting in a care plan meeting.
And I'm a daughter, so I knowwhat that feels like to be
sitting in a meeting and someonesaying, well, we think, you
know, yeah, I mean, yeah, theyhave gone to the bathroom.
You know, it's a human hall andit doesn't give you a lot of
(22:00):
confidence.
Whereas data is power.
in that regard for our teammembers, for our family members,
for our residents.
When I think about our elders,who sometimes become secondary
to the conversation, that peopletalk at them and around them,
but not with them.
And I can remember my dad veryclearly saying, I'm right here.
(22:21):
I'm right here in the room.
I learned that very strong atone appointment.
But they're also very anxious asto what's happening with them.
And that anxiety obviouslycreates other issues.
So having them to feel like theyhave control and that this is
(22:42):
what's going on and we're goingto work and do this, this and
this for you so that you feelbetter.
And then we're going to watchthis.
We can show them the dashboard.
We're going to watch thispattern and we're going to show
you tomorrow and the next dayhow this has been going by the
changes we've made in yourmedication regimen, or by the
(23:03):
timing of your activityschedule, or whatever the issue
is.
So it's inclusive.
So it's real-time data.
It's easy to use.
And it was not hard to deploy.
And it's a subscription service.
(23:25):
So it's not like this ton ofmoney had to go out at one time,
which is the other thing that...
We as providers have to worryabout is cost is everything.
And sometimes this technologycomes in so high that we can't
touch it.
And AMBA is very reasonable.
And so it has all the qualities.
It checkmarks all those boxes tohelp support what we're trying
(23:48):
to bring to the table.
Most importantly, though, it'sabout the information we get to
help serve the residents.
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
Yeah, and I think in our industry, there's a lot of
AI fatigue because so many ofthe players that have been in
the industry for a long timehave added AI to their systems.
And it doesn't really work thesame when you have a system not
designed for AI and you add anAI feature onto it versus
something like AMBA that'sdeveloped from the ground up
with a focus on AI.
(24:15):
And so I just really encouragethe listeners to be open-minded
to this and look for platformslike AMBA or anybody else who
was designed without AI from theground up because you might have
found yourself being unimpressedwith some of the other platforms
that just added AI on, but it'sa totally different experience.
I agree with you.
It's a totally differentexperience working with a
platform like this that'sdesigned for AI from the ground
(24:38):
up.
I also think too, you weretalking about the patient
experience and I think paranoiaand the paranoid behaviors that
go with it is a perfect example.
I think as caregivers, asfrontline staff, if we really
put ourselves in the shoes ofthat patient and think about how
miserable They must be feelingparanoid.
If anyone's ever been through anexperience like that, I have all
(24:59):
sorts of medication reactions.
I've been through that before.
It's terrifying.
It's horrible.
You know, you're livingliterally your worst nightmare.
And I think when we can take astep back and remember what the
patient experiences and putourselves as best we can in
their shoes, I think we approachit a lot differently.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
Definitely would agree with that.
And kind of again, looking at mypersonal situation with my dad,
he was always very anxious abouthis health.
And I remember saying to Stuartand Deborah, the principals with
AMBA, I wish this had beenaround when my dad was living
because it would have made mylife a ton easier.
It's not only great in theenvironments of our communities,
(25:40):
but it can be used in home care.
So we have a home care divisionas well.
We're looking at how do weintroduce this out?
Because if you think aboutfamily who's taking care of mom
or dad or any loved one, and youset the sensors up, the families
can see the dashboards, but myteam can see the dashboards too.
And we can intervene versus anemergency arising because nobody
(26:03):
knows what to do.
And that's particularlyimportant during this workforce
situation.
Workforce is going to becomplicated for quite a long
time.
And trying to bring efficiencyto my teams so that they're not
just doing your typical runningup and down the hallway of an
assisted living or personal careor nursing home.
(26:25):
They're actually strategicallyworking with the individuals
that really need them.
And they're not disturbing thosethat don't.
Those that are enjoying playingcards or having lunch or out
walking.
Don't need to have a nurse runup to them and say, I need to
check your blood pressure or Ineed to, you know, they only
(26:47):
need to do that to those thatthe alerts are going to, which I
find really wonderful becausewhen you're not making someone
overly anxious by a nurse or anaide or other health care
provider coming up to them andmaking them feel like, is there
a problem?
Which.
you know, my mother, even in hercognitive impairment, if there's
(27:12):
too many people around her,she'll say, what's wrong with
me?
Is there something wrong withme?
And I think we forget that.
When we come in and ask forblood pressure, pulse ox, you
know, temperature, we alarm.
We alarm.
So We've noticed through AMBAwhen we do pick up infections
(27:34):
because we can see that thepatterns have changed, something
is happening, and it does say weshould probably check on urine
or we need to follow throughwith her respirations.
All the symptoms that could bevery subtle but would tell us
something is happening andallows us to then be proactive.
(27:59):
to ensure that we can catchsomething before it becomes too
much of a problem.
And so again, you're focusing onthe people that really need you
to do that versus the residentsthat are doing fine and don't
need to be alarmed at their ageto think that something is wrong
with them when they're perfectlyhealthy.
SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
Yeah, I love your example about being able to
focus your attention on theelders that need your attention
most.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople, particularly in the
older population, are veryconcerned about AI infringing on
their privacy.
But the right use of AI allowsus to give elders more privacy,
more independence, moreautonomy, more control rather
(28:39):
than taking it away.
And that's one of the thingsthat gets me really excited
about it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's no cameras with AMBA.
There's no cameras in the room.
So I think that's alwaysthroughout my work in older care
and with people introducingtechnology, because we've
piloted other opportunities.
But people are fearful ofcameras.
People are fearful of whereinformation is going.
(29:04):
So the only place thisinformation goes is to this
dashboard.
We've heard a lot about peoplebeing fearful of Alexas or the
Amazon products.
Where else does that go?
And it's interesting, to yourpoint earlier about the paranoia
that comes with that.
There's no cameras.
The information goes directly tothe dashboard and it's very
(29:26):
controlled.
And we can take that informationand provide it to their
physicians so their physicianscan make adjustments.
Their physicians can look atpatterns themselves when they,
you know, from a typicaldoctor's appointment.
It's very, it's proactive, it'spredictive, and it's preventive.
So, you know, Working hard tokeep people out of hospitals,
(29:50):
out of emergency rooms, out ofurgent care if they don't belong
there.
And our hospitals are goingthrough enough of their own
concerns with their beds beingfull of people that now they
don't know where they're goingto go, how they're going to, you
know, where their next step is.
We want to help those hospitalsby ensuring that we're not
sending someone there whodoesn't really need to be there
(30:12):
if we can help with what'shappening on our end.
SPEAKER_02 (30:16):
Yeah.
And you know, I was reallyintrigued when I heard that at
Simpson, you introduced a techbar, which I think is primarily
for your independent livingresidents.
Tell me more about that, whatyou did, how did you fund it?
Why did you do it?
What do you offer?
So, um,
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
so that was, you know, I've, I had dreamed of
having a technology barsomewhere in one of my
communities that I've servedover the last few years.
And, um, The vision for thatactually came from when I was
traveling out to the Midwest toa major supply group called
Direct Supply.
I went out there to look forsome, we were touring through
(30:53):
their warehouse and what theyoffered.
And they just had an alliancewith an engineering school.
And so they had this cool spacewhere they had all these various
technologies on shelves behindkind of a bar, that they could
show us.
You know, we would just sit downthere and they would just pull
(31:15):
the technology off to show thatthey had different aspects of
things that we might be able touse in our communities.
And I was like, that would be socool if we had something like
that in our communities becausewe have residents who like
technology.
We have residents who arefearful of technology.
And we have people that wouldbenefit from it if they could
(31:38):
just handhold it a little bit.
UNKNOWN (31:40):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
And so when I finally got to Simpson, I was
doing a transition of what wasan entrance area to one of my
communities.
We were totally transitioning itinto a more engaging space.
And I had an opportunity to putin a small bistro, and we
(32:02):
decided that would be also acool place to put this
technology bar.
And the aspect of the technologybar would be kind of– We have
several different focuses.
One, we would hire a person whohad technology background that
could be like a tech conciergeto help support education around
technology, provide classes,small group classes or
(32:26):
individual classes to both theindependent living community, as
well as we could offer it to thegreater surrounding group for a
cost.
So the technology bar is a spacethat, Has a tech table in the
middle of it with with chairs ontwo of the walls.
One wall has is a total writingboard with a major two major TV
(32:53):
screen.
So the step residents can sitthere and classes can happen
with residents looking at that.
But the third wall is made up ofshelves that hold different
levels of technology.
Some of those relate to residentengagement and smart technology.
So like smart locks, Amazon EchoShows that help people be able
(33:19):
to turn lights on and that,again, they can go down and
play.
But the other part of that,which was more important to me,
was how do we help keep Keeppeople healthy at the particular
building where we initiated thetech bar.
I had a group of pretty savvyresidents that love technology
(33:40):
and I met with them and we weretalking about the smart
technology because I thoughtthat's what they were interested
in and I was.
really schooled on the factthat, yeah, the smart technology
is cool, but we already havethat.
I mean, a lot of our IELs haveAlexas.
They have, you know, all that.
(34:00):
The worry was, how do we, wewant to stay healthy.
I want to know that if my spouseis not well and I go out, how am
I going to make sure that myspouse is okay?
So we started focusing on whattechnologies we could put in
this bar that people could tryagain and utilize.
So for example, we do have someof the AMBA sensors there so
(34:23):
they can do that.
Because AMBA has a whole groupof sensors.
I've just talked about themotion sensors and the sleep
pad.
But there's multiple types ofsensors that they have vetted
out that work and work withtheir software.
But kind of going back to mydad, there are smart tooth weigh
(34:44):
scales out there.
So if you have someone whosuffers from congestive heart
failure, typically the doctor'sgonna say, we wanna keep your
weight between this weight andthis weight.
And if you go over five pounds,you need to call me right away.
Well, people aren't used totracking their weight or you
have to track your weight, youhave to look at it, you have to
(35:05):
go write it down.
My dad suffered from inabilityto do any of that.
He didn't have congestive heartfailure, but he had failure to
thrive.
So he had to check his weight ona regular basis.
Standing on a scale was onething, but having to bend down
when you have, you know, youhave movement issues already to
see the scale.
Then to take that and then totry to write what you said, what
(35:27):
you saw, and is it accurate?
And then take that journal toyour doctor.
When you can get a Bluetoothscale that can be set up and
send that right to yourcomputer, you can print that off
from your computer.
Or if we're really savvy, we cansend that on to the doctor's
office so when you come to thevisit, it's all there.
So helping residents get a senseof there's a lot of Bluetooth
(35:49):
types of methods out there tohelp support your health.
And that's what this bar isabout.
So it's about residentengagement.
It's about smart products.
But it's also helping theresidents look at these other
aspects of what we could do tokeep them healthy, independent
longer, and healthy.
(36:09):
that is useful for them then totake to their doctor's offices
to continue to benefit theirhealth.
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Yeah, you know, you have so much experience with AI
and with tech in the seniorliving space.
What piece of advice would yougive to another senior living
executive for how to integrateAI and tech?
Like what's the lesson you'velearned along the way?
SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
Well, one is if someone comes to you with a
pilot, try it.
Just try it.
I mean, they are trying to getexperience from us on what
works.
And the only way to get thatexperience is by us opening our
doors and allowing that to betrialed and being prepared.
I mean, there's ways to go abouta pilot, but that would be one.
(36:53):
Secondly, to not be afraid oftaking risks.
And I just talked about it in ateam meeting this morning.
If you are so concerned about Imean, we obviously, we always
have to be concerned about risk,but stepping into AI, you can't
be fearful.
You just have to jump in and doit and learn and know that if
(37:15):
this doesn't work, that there'ssomething, the next one out
there.
And that's why piloting is sohelpful because we did pilot.
I've piloted things over theyears in this company and
others.
Some worked and some completelywere losers.
AMBA is one that, That was not,it was successful all the way
around.
(37:36):
And you have to be open to beingokay with the failures.
And, you know, so you take therisk.
It doesn't work.
Okay.
Let's let, what did we learnfrom it?
And what, what do we take fromthat?
And what's going to be our nextstep?
Don't fall back and not do it atall.
Right.
Knowledge is not going away.
Yeah.
No, if you wait, you are goingto be behind the curve.
(37:59):
If you jump into it and learn,you'll get ahead of the curve
and open yourself up to learnfrom your colleagues, because
I've had really greatconversations with people in my
field who are trying differenttechnologies in their own
communities and fascinating whatthey're learning.
Just like, I mean, I chat, chatGBT is that what, you know,
(38:20):
that, that whole process isfascinating to me and what
people are learning from that.
And I think being open tolearning.
So yeah.
And embracing it, just embracingit.
SPEAKER_02 (38:34):
I also think too, when it comes to AI, I've yet to
find a use case where it didn'tsomehow make sense the work
experience better or moreefficient.
It might not have been asefficient or it might not
improved as much as I wanted itto, but it's never made it
worse.
I've never, I've never comeacross a circumstance yet.
And everyone on my team uses AI.
I encourage that on my teambecause I agree with you.
It's a powerful tool.
(38:55):
And I think the smartest peopleare the ones who are actively
adopting it today and learninghow to use it and be successful
with it.
But I can say from myexperience, I've yet to see an
example where it was even equalwith not using AI.
So I really encourage people to,embrace it and learn how to use
it and get educated like you'redoing with your tech bar.
(39:15):
Because just by trial and error,you're really going to learn so
much.
But I've got a great team memberin particular that is just a
super user with ChatGPT and someof the other AI platforms.
And he asks it questions in waysI would never even think asking
questions.
And then he'll tell me how hedid it.
And I'll be like, Well, thatmakes so much sense.
But if you had never told me, Iwould have never even thought
(39:37):
how to do that.
So I really think collaborationand learning from each other is
really important too.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
That efficiency with your team members too.
But I also would be mindful ofnot chunking a lot at them at
one time so that introducingmultiple AI is complicated
sometimes.
Just having to focus on one andhelping that one get successful
(40:04):
so that it's embraced so thatwhen you introduce the next one,
it's like, oh yeah, this iscool.
This is a great place to workbecause they're doing innovative
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
stuff.
So that's a great word ofcaution.
I totally agree.
I heard you mention earlier, youall are doing home and
community-based services,reaching beyond the walls of
senior living.
Tell me more about what you'redoing.
And again, what are you doingthat's kind of unique in that
space?
So, I mean, I
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
think that's similar to everyone else.
We are not a licensed Medicarecertified program.
It's really what I wouldconsider the glue.
to help people stay at home.
So your companionship, you'rehelping with bathing, dressing,
laundry, housekeeping,transportation, helping people
with preparing meals orpreparing meals, just the whole
(40:51):
gamut of once you get beyondmaybe a Medicare certified
experience, you need that otherpiece that helps you stay at
home longer.
And so we do that.
But I feel like ourdifferentiator, which we are
trialing now, is the AMBAcomponent.
Because we want to have peoplehave the opportunity to
(41:12):
understand that we can keep themin their homes longer if we just
understand what's going on withtheir typical daily patterns and
how those are disrupted.
And when they are disrupted...
what can we do so that theydon't have to move out of their
home prematurely?
How do we help caregivers,whether it's family or
otherwise, have a comfort level?
(41:32):
And also in terms of helpingsupport our workers, because our
caregivers, and again, as we,you know, workforce is
challenging and in the home andcommunity-based space, it's
hard.
So if you have a way, adashboard that you have a
central person able to see Weneed to call so-and-so's home or
we need to get out there thisafternoon because we see some
(41:56):
changes happening.
We can do that and have animpact on keeping someone safe
as well as helping them stay athome.
In my future vision, we knowthat people with cognitive
impairment, it's predicted thatthat that population is going to
grow.
(42:16):
And we do know that we may befacing a world where we have
people with cognitive impairmentwho need to live by themselves.
That institutionalization orsuch is not going to be
available to them.
SPEAKER_03 (42:28):
They
SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
don't have family because we're such a mobile
society.
So they're living alone.
So it's like, how do we take aproduct like AMBA into a home of
a person with cognitiveimpairment and help them stay by
themselves with obviouslysupports coming in and out from
the outside, but they are stillable to live in their homes 24-7
(42:53):
by us just monitoring what'shappening through these various
passive sensors.
And I think I've seen some onthe federal side, there are some
grants out there where they arelooking for people to study this
because we know at some pointwe're going to be facing this.
SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
Yeah, we just don't have the caregivers either.
Even if we wanted to do it allhuman community-based or all in
senior living, there just aren'tenough caregivers.
So we have to look for howtechnology can make up the
difference because we don't wantthe care to suffer, and we don't
want the patient experience tosuffer either.
So I'm in the middle of doing aresearch study with another
platform that's using AI.
(43:31):
It sounds pretty similar toAMBA.
And It's been amazing the impactthat it had on the home and
community dwellers, looking atboth that and at assisted
living.
But there's been a huge impacton the home and community
dwellers, especially when itcomes to identifying critical
issues early and either beingable to address them in place or
reduce the amount ofhospitalization, things like
(43:54):
that.
So that study is coming outsoon, but just excited to hear
about how it's working for youas well.
Well, I know, Carol, that youhave inspired me today.
Leave our list with a last bitof inspiration.
SPEAKER_01 (44:09):
Gosh, well, again, you know, know that the door is
wide open in this space.
And if you have the opportunity,I know that it has helped me
significantly in working with myolder adults and their families.
And it has had an impact whenyou can put data out there that
says that you have decreasedfalls by 67 percent, that you've
(44:30):
decreased the use ofantipsychotics by 81 percent.
Wow.
It's real time data.
that tells me we're making adifference.
So whether it's Anvil or other,it's embracing AI that helps
support data that gives yougreat information.
(44:51):
Do it.
I would just, I'm so passionateabout it.
I just feel it's a game changerfor anyone who's working to care
for older
SPEAKER_02 (45:00):
adults.
Absolutely.
I could not agree more.
Thank you so much for joining uson the podcast today and sharing
all the innovative ideas thatyou're doing over there at
Simpson.
Thank you for having me.
It was an honor.
Wonderful.
As always, if you want tocontinue the conversation, you
can find me and Dr.
McKinley on LinkedIn.
Thank you for joining us.
And if you enjoyed today'scontent, don't forget to
(45:21):
subscribe to our podcast.
Remember, it's not just what youknow, but how you apply it that
makes all the difference.
See you next time.
UNKNOWN (45:30):
Bye.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
You're listening to Gravity Healthcare Hacks with
your host, Melissa Brown, ChiefOperating Officer from Gravity
Healthcare Consulting andself-professed healthcare nerd.
Monthly, we will provideindustry expertise and tips to
help keep your feet firmly onthe ground in the world of
healthcare.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to our podcast today.
I am thrilled to have Dr.
Carol McKinley on our podcasttoday.
She's the president and CEO ofSimpson, a senior living
community in Pennsylvania.
Welcome, Dr.
McKinley.
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So, you know, Carol, I recentlyheard you talk for the first
time and I could not get thethings that you said out of my
(00:51):
mind.
I actually had to go back andlisten to that talk again.
I'm blown away by what you'redoing and how you're using AI to
really turn the care continuumupside down.
But I want to talk about allthat in just a minute, but I
think it's helpful for thelisteners.
Level set for us.
Let us know, how did you gethere at Simpson?
What's your journey been like?
So,
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
gosh, you know, I feel old in this space.
I've been in my field for over35 years.
And every time I say that, it's,you know...
It's a long time, and I havealways, from a young age,
desired to work for olderadults, with older adults, and
that was stemmed from my father.
(01:33):
My dad was a minister, and hespent time serving the elderly.
I went out with him on severaloccasions to visit with him in
nursing homes.
I play guitar, so I would helpmy dad with music, and I watched
him and what he did, and Imodeled myself after him in
(01:54):
terms of the care that heprovided to these people.
their dignity, humanity, thevalue that they had.
And I really enjoyed hearingwhat they would share with my
dad.
And then I would just start myown questioning.
So I think you know in yourheart when you are pulled some
(02:15):
direction.
And I really felt that thatbecame a calling for me to be
with older adults.
I only had one grandmother.
And she lived in she lived aboutfive hours or so from us.
And we didn't see her thatoften.
But I went to college in thesame town where she lived.
I didn't live with her, but Iwould go over and help.
(02:38):
her do things.
I went to church with her everySunday.
She always made dinner for me,but I got to know her
surrounding friends.
And again, same kinds ofconversations that I learned
from my dad in terms of whothese people were and what they,
what their lives were like andwhat, you know, they all had
(02:58):
different needs, you know, justI would get, I would go, Get
groceries, not like, you know,like get groceries.
I might help paint.
I help my grandmother paint herporch.
Just things that, you know, as acollege student, you wouldn't
necessarily feel like you wouldbe doing.
But I love that.
I loved feeling needed.
But I also love the fact thatthey shared so many great
(03:22):
stories with me of what theirlife was like as a younger
person.
And I think that that just helpsevolve you.
in terms of what was life likebefore you were around and what
did you miss and what we takefor granted they didn't have.
(03:43):
So it was a very, very importanttime for me in terms of who I
was.
And that's why I decided to gointo seeking an education that
had to do with working witholder
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
adults.
Absolutely.
I love how you talk about itbeing almost like a ministry to
you.
I feel the same way about it,being able to touch so many
humans' lives that unfortunatelycan tend to be left behind by
other people.
And it's interesting, once youcatch the elder bug and you just
love engaging with elders, likeit sticks, you know, you want to
(04:15):
continue to have that in yourlife.
So, you know, I think those ofus that really have a personal
passion for senior care are theones really trying to innovate
and do things in a differentway.
What are you doing that's reallyunique at Simpson?
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
So I think we all work to try to provide quality
care.
And how do we go about doingthat?
In my world, for me, it's tryingto help make something better
before it actually becomes aproblem.
You know, my parents...
My mother's still living.
She's 99 years old and she hascognitive impairment.
(04:57):
My dad passed away in his early90s with COVID.
But as I watched my parents ageand they were living at home for
a really long time.
I found it, first of all, thetown that they lived in, it was
very challenging to findresources to help support the
care that they required.
My dad had advanced Parkinson's,and he was affected by movement,
(05:19):
not typical Parkinson's.
You might see someone withtremors.
My dad really could not move.
I was five hours away, andsometimes he would call me and
say, Carol, I can't get off thecouch.
So I'm thinking, I'm five hoursaway, and my mom's sitting at
the other end of the And shewould be the kind of in her
(05:40):
thought process, well, just getup, you know.
So in thinking about what Iwanted for what we do here at
Simpson is how do I have animpact so that we don't get to
this point where someone is in astressful situation?
that eventually may need them togo to a hospital emergency room.
(06:01):
And my dad hated going to anemergency room.
I probably like the rest of us.
He knew that they were going tosay, we got to run a bunch of
tests.
And that was really not what hewanted.
So I've always been looking atways to how do we help our staff
be more thoughtful as to howthey, um, view our residents and
(06:23):
assess our residents, and how dowe help our families engage in
that process, and how do we helpour residents have some control
over that?
Because that's the otherproblem, because when you're in
your 80s and 90s, weautomatically tend to want to
take care of them and forgetthat they need a boost in this
process, that they get anxiousand they worry, and they want to
(06:48):
tell their story about what'sgoing on.
So So part of that is helpingto, here at Simpson, teach our
teams how you talk about that,how you pick up on that, you
know, from a subjective manner.
You know, you teach people howto see pain.
You teach people how to pick upon discomfort by how someone may
(07:11):
be moving in their chair.
But the other part of that iswhat kind of technology is out
there that helps support that,that can really build help the
staff go from a subjectivethought process to a stronger
critical thinking process.
(07:32):
You know, in our world, and as Ican remember when I was much
younger, our education reallypushed you to critically think,
to analyze, to look at rootcause analysis, to figure out
what was going on.
And I think as our industry haschanged and people are much more
(07:52):
task oriented, and so they arelooking at the black and white
and what task is coming next.
When does the bath happen?
When does the medication happen?
When does the meal come?
And so when we see someone indistress, or when we know
something is off, but we aren'tsure why, we don't always relate
(08:15):
back to that analyticalframework because we haven't
been trained that way.
We've kind of lost the art.
That's my perception.
We have lost the art of criticalthinking.
Also, teachers would agree withyou.
So having a tool through AI thatallows us to see patterns in how
(08:40):
people are responding to theirdaily frame of life, where we
can see what those patterns arewhen those patterns change, have
those critical questions of,well, what's happened?
So for example, and I often havethis conversation about my
(09:02):
mother because she's gotcognitive impairment and she has
a very high pain tolerance or Ifshe has a headache, she won't
tell you and she'll sufferthrough it.
It could be migraine level andyou would never know that.
But when she's not well...
She doesn't have the ability totell you she's not well, but I
(09:27):
may get a call from hercaregiver that says, your mother
is really upset.
She's crying a lot today.
She's crying a lot.
Or your mother didn't sleepwell.
And my first question is, alwaystipping to the biological, is
she brewing something?
Does she have a urinary tractinfection?
Or is there something else goingon?
(09:48):
And Subjectively, again, we canall have guesses around that.
But if you're using AI, and thisis what Simpson is doing today,
we have chosen an AI partnercalled AMBA, and we're able to
look at people's patterns ofdaily life.
And when there's a shift inthose, then we can question what
(10:11):
was that shift that then helpsour staffs respond to that
resident faster.
with hopefully preventing afall, preventing a potential
urinary tract infection or otherinfection, a visit to the urgent
care, a visit to the emergencycare, maybe a change in
(10:35):
medication that was not the bestchange, so modifying someone's
medication regimen.
And that's all done through AI,and that's...
I'm so happy in terms of thetrajectory of my career.
I mean, I've always had kind oflike these visions in my head as
I've gotten older as how do wedo this.
(10:58):
And then I met AMBA and it waslike, you're doing what I've
wanted to do and you've createdthis and this is cool.
And we need to bring you in andpilot and figure out how this
works.
And that's kind of how ourpartnership with AMBA started.
was born.
I just kind of ran into them atan innovation conference, which
(11:21):
I went purposely to aninnovation conference to see
what was going on and what wecould do.
It's kind of like speed dating.
You're at these differentbooths, so you have 15 minutes
of time.
I can tell you, I sat down andwithin five minutes, the founder
of AMBA shared a story with methat was so impactful um i knew
(11:47):
story with us what did she tellyou well it
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
was
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
a gentleman so um uh stew he's the uh founder of amba
and he he was similar to mystory he had a father that he
was trying to help support um interms of his care needs his
father needed more and more careat home and stewart was working
(12:11):
to find different ways to meethis needs.
And so he was exploring varioustypes of technology.
And as he was doing thisexploration, realized, well,
wait a minute, I could work tobring these different types of
care need technology to one wayof doing this, one software.
(12:37):
And I can make this all happenfor my dad.
If I can do this for my dad, Ican work to build this for
others.
And when we were talking, heunderstood the difficulties with
caring for older adults andcaring for your parents.
He and I aligned so well withthat.
And then when he was talkingabout the variety of resources,
(13:01):
as you probably know, there areso many pieces of technology out
there.
I mean, we get inundated withemails of people that have
things that they want us to try.
And the challenge is to findwhat's going to work.
And in this case, I mean, thetechnology they were bringing
(13:23):
was easy.
It was inexpensive.
It was available.
It had a really great dashboardto which the data went to on
real time.
Okay.
Which is also important becausein a community, in a retirement
community or a nursing homeassisted living, your
(13:44):
information is coming from lotsof different people all
throughout the day.
So it's not necessarilyreal-time information.
And AMBA...
comes to us with real-time data24-7.
You have these passive sensorsthat are very small.
One is literally this size,almost a little bigger than a
(14:07):
quarter.
It's a movement sensor that goesabove the doors or in your room.
They have another sensor that'sthe size of an emery board,
fingernail emery board.
It lays on top of the door.
So when the door opens andcloses, it's collecting data.
And then the other sensor we'reusing right now is a sleep pad
(14:28):
that goes under the mattress andmonitors a person's sleep.
Every one of those, first ofall, you wouldn't notice them.
A resident normally wouldn'tnotice them.
They all have strong lives.
So the batteries in the movementsensors are 10-year battery
lives.
Wow.
That's huge.
So I don't have to worry aboutchanging batteries out.
(14:48):
And they're collecting data allday long.
So they...
when AMBA started piloting withus, they put these sensors in
and we could see that for liketwo weeks, just a timeframe of
data that gave us a sense ofwhat this resident's normal
abilities were, sleep patternsand movement to the bathroom,
(15:10):
all that.
And then after that, you nowhave this pattern of data.
So if it shifts, The it willalert my teams to say it might
alert them to a red alert thatsays this person has an imminent
(15:30):
problem.
Like, we know that they sleepall the time and all of a sudden
they're shifting around andgetting up.
So you might think they're goingto fall.
So it would alert a staff personto go immediately go to the room
to check on them.
An amber alert gives a kind oflike a slower response.
And then green seems they're allfine.
So my teams are directed andfocused on the people that have
(15:52):
the red alerts and the greenalert people are doing well.
They don't have to disturb them,you know, but the information
that's gathered by these teammembers is It's stunning.
Let's just talk about sleeppatterns in itself.
When I don't sleep well, myhusband will tell you I'm
(16:14):
grouchy.
Or I have less patience.
My team will probably tell youthat I have less patience.
When an older adult is perceivedas being grouchy, cantankerous,
wobbly...
I doubt that sleep is the firstthing that people think about.
(16:36):
They think about other aspectsof what might have happened
during the day.
But if you just look at theperson's sleep pattern, their
pattern may be normal that theysleep from 8 p.m.
to 7 a.m.
and they may have oneinterruption during the night to
go to the bathroom andeverything's fine.
But if we're tracking sleep andwe have someone who is coming
(17:00):
across more cantankerous orconfused, I mean, if you don't
sleep well, how well do wordscome to you?
So our team can look at that andgo, my goodness, she didn't
sleep well last night.
What was going on last night?
So then our team can startcritically huddling.
(17:21):
They huddle and they can startcritically thinking and looking
at words the electronic medicalrecord.
Did something change in hermedications?
They may look at other patternsthat happened through the
evening.
Did she eat well?
What has changed?
What has changed?
What was going on in thecommunity itself?
Was there loud noises in thearea?
(17:43):
Was it hot?
You're really trying to figureout what has changed.
And it could be as simple as,well, the doctor put her on a
new medication.
And And so let's look at some ofthe aspects of the medication.
And it may be like one of thecommon ones that I think about
(18:05):
is metropolox.
My husband was on that for afibrillation.
Metropolox causes you to dream alot.
And they're very strong, realdreams.
So if you're a new person withmetropolox, that resident may
have been tossing and turningand thus dying.
We might call the doctor backand say, this particular
(18:27):
medication isn't working.
Or the doctor might say, let'stry it over the next few days.
Let me see how her sleeppatterns are.
And so we can monitor that.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
Yeah, because it is a big deal.
And, you know, I've beenfrustrated.
I've been searching for a greatAI platform like this because I
think some of the ones that areout there, they just don't seem
to take the information to thenext level.
Like all the data is there, butunless you're a data analyst,
you'd never be able to figureout what's important.
And I love what you said aboutthe dashboard and like the red
(18:57):
light, like, hey, pay attentionto this person, pay attention to
this data point.
It's going to tell you somethingimportant.
Does AMBA include like motionsensors in their package?
too.
Yeah.
That's one of those things as atherapist I've been thinking
about for years, which is surelypeople's gate pattern and gate
speed and things like thatchange leading up to a fall, you
(19:18):
know, or other illnesses.
And I know that the technologyis very expensive right now for
that kind of motion sensing, butI think in the next five to 10
years, it's going to become alot more affordable.
It'll be exciting to see whatadditional data we can gain and
allow AI to do a lot of thecritical thinking for us and
kind of point the fingers thathere's who you should pay
(19:39):
attention to.
So, you know, knowing some ofthe other things out there, how
do you feel like AMBA isdifferent from some of the other
ones.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
To me, AMBA is different because it's
practical.
It's providing information thatwe need.
And to your point, it's notcomplicated.
I'm not a nurse, but I can lookand see how a pattern has
changed.
If I'm sitting in a huddle as alay person, I can say, well, Her
(20:11):
line's blipped up here.
What happened on that day?
Because we can see historicallyand forward.
So you have the historical data,but you have the real-time data.
But it's not rocket scienceinformation.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
And
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
I think you have to have AI that people have an ease
at using.
Because at any time, peoplethink technology is scary, so
they pull back from it.
But if they find it's useful...
And it's even, even for ourfamily members, they can
understand that.
So, you know, if just sittingdown with a family member at a
care plan meeting to describe tothem that we want to make
(20:50):
another medication change, andthis is why, and be able to show
that, for example, the onemotion sensor is, can be on the,
you can put the motion sensorsanywhere, but we put one motion
sensor on the top of thebathroom door.
So you can see how many timesthe door opens and closes.
And we can see your mother'sbathroom usage has gone way up.
(21:17):
And we're concerned about that.
So we're kind of looking atwhat's going on medically with
her.
We brought this to the attentionof the doctor.
That's strong information thatyou're sharing with the family
and with a resident.
Because if the resident is alertand oriented and capable, you're
sharing with the resident thatyou're showing that you care.
You are critically thinking whatthe concerns are and you're
(21:39):
taking action for it rather thansitting in a care plan meeting.
And I'm a daughter, so I knowwhat that feels like to be
sitting in a meeting and someonesaying, well, we think, you
know, yeah, I mean, yeah, theyhave gone to the bathroom.
You know, it's a human hall andit doesn't give you a lot of
(22:00):
confidence.
Whereas data is power.
in that regard for our teammembers, for our family members,
for our residents.
When I think about our elders,who sometimes become secondary
to the conversation, that peopletalk at them and around them,
but not with them.
And I can remember my dad veryclearly saying, I'm right here.
(22:21):
I'm right here in the room.
I learned that very strong atone appointment.
But they're also very anxious asto what's happening with them.
And that anxiety obviouslycreates other issues.
So having them to feel like theyhave control and that this is
(22:42):
what's going on and we're goingto work and do this, this and
this for you so that you feelbetter.
And then we're going to watchthis.
We can show them the dashboard.
We're going to watch thispattern and we're going to show
you tomorrow and the next dayhow this has been going by the
changes we've made in yourmedication regimen, or by the
(23:03):
timing of your activityschedule, or whatever the issue
is.
So it's inclusive.
So it's real-time data.
It's easy to use.
And it was not hard to deploy.
And it's a subscription service.
(23:25):
So it's not like this ton ofmoney had to go out at one time,
which is the other thing that...
We as providers have to worryabout is cost is everything.
And sometimes this technologycomes in so high that we can't
touch it.
And AMBA is very reasonable.
And so it has all the qualities.
It checkmarks all those boxes tohelp support what we're trying
(23:48):
to bring to the table.
Most importantly, though, it'sabout the information we get to
help serve the residents.
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
Yeah, and I think in our industry, there's a lot of
AI fatigue because so many ofthe players that have been in
the industry for a long timehave added AI to their systems.
And it doesn't really work thesame when you have a system not
designed for AI and you add anAI feature onto it versus
something like AMBA that'sdeveloped from the ground up
with a focus on AI.
(24:15):
And so I just really encouragethe listeners to be open-minded
to this and look for platformslike AMBA or anybody else who
was designed without AI from theground up because you might have
found yourself being unimpressedwith some of the other platforms
that just added AI on, but it'sa totally different experience.
I agree with you.
It's a totally differentexperience working with a
platform like this that'sdesigned for AI from the ground
(24:38):
up.
I also think too, you weretalking about the patient
experience and I think paranoiaand the paranoid behaviors that
go with it is a perfect example.
I think as caregivers, asfrontline staff, if we really
put ourselves in the shoes ofthat patient and think about how
miserable They must be feelingparanoid.
If anyone's ever been through anexperience like that, I have all
(24:59):
sorts of medication reactions.
I've been through that before.
It's terrifying.
It's horrible.
You know, you're livingliterally your worst nightmare.
And I think when we can take astep back and remember what the
patient experiences and putourselves as best we can in
their shoes, I think we approachit a lot differently.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
Definitely would agree with that.
And kind of again, looking at mypersonal situation with my dad,
he was always very anxious abouthis health.
And I remember saying to Stuartand Deborah, the principals with
AMBA, I wish this had beenaround when my dad was living
because it would have made mylife a ton easier.
It's not only great in theenvironments of our communities,
(25:40):
but it can be used in home care.
So we have a home care divisionas well.
We're looking at how do weintroduce this out?
Because if you think aboutfamily who's taking care of mom
or dad or any loved one, and youset the sensors up, the families
can see the dashboards, but myteam can see the dashboards too.
And we can intervene versus anemergency arising because nobody
(26:03):
knows what to do.
And that's particularlyimportant during this workforce
situation.
Workforce is going to becomplicated for quite a long
time.
And trying to bring efficiencyto my teams so that they're not
just doing your typical runningup and down the hallway of an
assisted living or personal careor nursing home.
(26:25):
They're actually strategicallyworking with the individuals
that really need them.
And they're not disturbing thosethat don't.
Those that are enjoying playingcards or having lunch or out
walking.
Don't need to have a nurse runup to them and say, I need to
check your blood pressure or Ineed to, you know, they only
(26:47):
need to do that to those thatthe alerts are going to, which I
find really wonderful becausewhen you're not making someone
overly anxious by a nurse or anaide or other health care
provider coming up to them andmaking them feel like, is there
a problem?
Which.
you know, my mother, even in hercognitive impairment, if there's
(27:12):
too many people around her,she'll say, what's wrong with
me?
Is there something wrong withme?
And I think we forget that.
When we come in and ask forblood pressure, pulse ox, you
know, temperature, we alarm.
We alarm.
So We've noticed through AMBAwhen we do pick up infections
(27:34):
because we can see that thepatterns have changed, something
is happening, and it does say weshould probably check on urine
or we need to follow throughwith her respirations.
All the symptoms that could bevery subtle but would tell us
something is happening andallows us to then be proactive.
(27:59):
to ensure that we can catchsomething before it becomes too
much of a problem.
And so again, you're focusing onthe people that really need you
to do that versus the residentsthat are doing fine and don't
need to be alarmed at their ageto think that something is wrong
with them when they're perfectlyhealthy.
SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
Yeah, I love your example about being able to
focus your attention on theelders that need your attention
most.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople, particularly in the
older population, are veryconcerned about AI infringing on
their privacy.
But the right use of AI allowsus to give elders more privacy,
more independence, moreautonomy, more control rather
(28:39):
than taking it away.
And that's one of the thingsthat gets me really excited
about it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's no cameras with AMBA.
There's no cameras in the room.
So I think that's alwaysthroughout my work in older care
and with people introducingtechnology, because we've
piloted other opportunities.
But people are fearful ofcameras.
People are fearful of whereinformation is going.
(29:04):
So the only place thisinformation goes is to this
dashboard.
We've heard a lot about peoplebeing fearful of Alexas or the
Amazon products.
Where else does that go?
And it's interesting, to yourpoint earlier about the paranoia
that comes with that.
There's no cameras.
The information goes directly tothe dashboard and it's very
(29:26):
controlled.
And we can take that informationand provide it to their
physicians so their physicianscan make adjustments.
Their physicians can look atpatterns themselves when they,
you know, from a typicaldoctor's appointment.
It's very, it's proactive, it'spredictive, and it's preventive.
So, you know, Working hard tokeep people out of hospitals,
(29:50):
out of emergency rooms, out ofurgent care if they don't belong
there.
And our hospitals are goingthrough enough of their own
concerns with their beds beingfull of people that now they
don't know where they're goingto go, how they're going to, you
know, where their next step is.
We want to help those hospitalsby ensuring that we're not
sending someone there whodoesn't really need to be there
(30:12):
if we can help with what'shappening on our end.
SPEAKER_02 (30:16):
Yeah.
And you know, I was reallyintrigued when I heard that at
Simpson, you introduced a techbar, which I think is primarily
for your independent livingresidents.
Tell me more about that, whatyou did, how did you fund it?
Why did you do it?
What do you offer?
So, um,
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
so that was, you know, I've, I had dreamed of
having a technology barsomewhere in one of my
communities that I've servedover the last few years.
And, um, The vision for thatactually came from when I was
traveling out to the Midwest toa major supply group called
Direct Supply.
I went out there to look forsome, we were touring through
(30:53):
their warehouse and what theyoffered.
And they just had an alliancewith an engineering school.
And so they had this cool spacewhere they had all these various
technologies on shelves behindkind of a bar, that they could
show us.
You know, we would just sit downthere and they would just pull
(31:15):
the technology off to show thatthey had different aspects of
things that we might be able touse in our communities.
And I was like, that would be socool if we had something like
that in our communities becausewe have residents who like
technology.
We have residents who arefearful of technology.
And we have people that wouldbenefit from it if they could
(31:38):
just handhold it a little bit.
UNKNOWN (31:40):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
And so when I finally got to Simpson, I was
doing a transition of what wasan entrance area to one of my
communities.
We were totally transitioning itinto a more engaging space.
And I had an opportunity to putin a small bistro, and we
(32:02):
decided that would be also acool place to put this
technology bar.
And the aspect of the technologybar would be kind of– We have
several different focuses.
One, we would hire a person whohad technology background that
could be like a tech conciergeto help support education around
technology, provide classes,small group classes or
(32:26):
individual classes to both theindependent living community, as
well as we could offer it to thegreater surrounding group for a
cost.
So the technology bar is a spacethat, Has a tech table in the
middle of it with with chairs ontwo of the walls.
One wall has is a total writingboard with a major two major TV
(32:53):
screen.
So the step residents can sitthere and classes can happen
with residents looking at that.
But the third wall is made up ofshelves that hold different
levels of technology.
Some of those relate to residentengagement and smart technology.
So like smart locks, Amazon EchoShows that help people be able
(33:19):
to turn lights on and that,again, they can go down and
play.
But the other part of that,which was more important to me,
was how do we help keep Keeppeople healthy at the particular
building where we initiated thetech bar.
I had a group of pretty savvyresidents that love technology
(33:40):
and I met with them and we weretalking about the smart
technology because I thoughtthat's what they were interested
in and I was.
really schooled on the factthat, yeah, the smart technology
is cool, but we already havethat.
I mean, a lot of our IELs haveAlexas.
They have, you know, all that.
(34:00):
The worry was, how do we, wewant to stay healthy.
I want to know that if my spouseis not well and I go out, how am
I going to make sure that myspouse is okay?
So we started focusing on whattechnologies we could put in
this bar that people could tryagain and utilize.
So for example, we do have someof the AMBA sensors there so
(34:23):
they can do that.
Because AMBA has a whole groupof sensors.
I've just talked about themotion sensors and the sleep
pad.
But there's multiple types ofsensors that they have vetted
out that work and work withtheir software.
But kind of going back to mydad, there are smart tooth weigh
(34:44):
scales out there.
So if you have someone whosuffers from congestive heart
failure, typically the doctor'sgonna say, we wanna keep your
weight between this weight andthis weight.
And if you go over five pounds,you need to call me right away.
Well, people aren't used totracking their weight or you
have to track your weight, youhave to look at it, you have to
(35:05):
go write it down.
My dad suffered from inabilityto do any of that.
He didn't have congestive heartfailure, but he had failure to
thrive.
So he had to check his weight ona regular basis.
Standing on a scale was onething, but having to bend down
when you have, you know, youhave movement issues already to
see the scale.
Then to take that and then totry to write what you said, what
(35:27):
you saw, and is it accurate?
And then take that journal toyour doctor.
When you can get a Bluetoothscale that can be set up and
send that right to yourcomputer, you can print that off
from your computer.
Or if we're really savvy, we cansend that on to the doctor's
office so when you come to thevisit, it's all there.
So helping residents get a senseof there's a lot of Bluetooth
(35:49):
types of methods out there tohelp support your health.
And that's what this bar isabout.
So it's about residentengagement.
It's about smart products.
But it's also helping theresidents look at these other
aspects of what we could do tokeep them healthy, independent
longer, and healthy.
(36:09):
that is useful for them then totake to their doctor's offices
to continue to benefit theirhealth.
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Yeah, you know, you have so much experience with AI
and with tech in the seniorliving space.
What piece of advice would yougive to another senior living
executive for how to integrateAI and tech?
Like what's the lesson you'velearned along the way?
SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
Well, one is if someone comes to you with a
pilot, try it.
Just try it.
I mean, they are trying to getexperience from us on what
works.
And the only way to get thatexperience is by us opening our
doors and allowing that to betrialed and being prepared.
I mean, there's ways to go abouta pilot, but that would be one.
(36:53):
Secondly, to not be afraid oftaking risks.
And I just talked about it in ateam meeting this morning.
If you are so concerned about Imean, we obviously, we always
have to be concerned about risk,but stepping into AI, you can't
be fearful.
You just have to jump in and doit and learn and know that if
(37:15):
this doesn't work, that there'ssomething, the next one out
there.
And that's why piloting is sohelpful because we did pilot.
I've piloted things over theyears in this company and
others.
Some worked and some completelywere losers.
AMBA is one that, That was not,it was successful all the way
around.
(37:36):
And you have to be open to beingokay with the failures.
And, you know, so you take therisk.
It doesn't work.
Okay.
Let's let, what did we learnfrom it?
And what, what do we take fromthat?
And what's going to be our nextstep?
Don't fall back and not do it atall.
Right.
Knowledge is not going away.
Yeah.
No, if you wait, you are goingto be behind the curve.
(37:59):
If you jump into it and learn,you'll get ahead of the curve
and open yourself up to learnfrom your colleagues, because
I've had really greatconversations with people in my
field who are trying differenttechnologies in their own
communities and fascinating whatthey're learning.
Just like, I mean, I chat, chatGBT is that what, you know,
(38:20):
that, that whole process isfascinating to me and what
people are learning from that.
And I think being open tolearning.
So yeah.
And embracing it, just embracingit.
SPEAKER_02 (38:34):
I also think too, when it comes to AI, I've yet to
find a use case where it didn'tsomehow make sense the work
experience better or moreefficient.
It might not have been asefficient or it might not
improved as much as I wanted itto, but it's never made it
worse.
I've never, I've never comeacross a circumstance yet.
And everyone on my team uses AI.
I encourage that on my teambecause I agree with you.
It's a powerful tool.
(38:55):
And I think the smartest peopleare the ones who are actively
adopting it today and learninghow to use it and be successful
with it.
But I can say from myexperience, I've yet to see an
example where it was even equalwith not using AI.
So I really encourage people to,embrace it and learn how to use
it and get educated like you'redoing with your tech bar.
(39:15):
Because just by trial and error,you're really going to learn so
much.
But I've got a great team memberin particular that is just a
super user with ChatGPT and someof the other AI platforms.
And he asks it questions in waysI would never even think asking
questions.
And then he'll tell me how hedid it.
And I'll be like, Well, thatmakes so much sense.
But if you had never told me, Iwould have never even thought
(39:37):
how to do that.
So I really think collaborationand learning from each other is
really important too.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
That efficiency with your team members too.
But I also would be mindful ofnot chunking a lot at them at
one time so that introducingmultiple AI is complicated
sometimes.
Just having to focus on one andhelping that one get successful
(40:04):
so that it's embraced so thatwhen you introduce the next one,
it's like, oh yeah, this iscool.
This is a great place to workbecause they're doing innovative
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
stuff.
So that's a great word ofcaution.
I totally agree.
I heard you mention earlier, youall are doing home and
community-based services,reaching beyond the walls of
senior living.
Tell me more about what you'redoing.
And again, what are you doingthat's kind of unique in that
space?
So, I mean, I
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
think that's similar to everyone else.
We are not a licensed Medicarecertified program.
It's really what I wouldconsider the glue.
to help people stay at home.
So your companionship, you'rehelping with bathing, dressing,
laundry, housekeeping,transportation, helping people
with preparing meals orpreparing meals, just the whole
(40:51):
gamut of once you get beyondmaybe a Medicare certified
experience, you need that otherpiece that helps you stay at
home longer.
And so we do that.
But I feel like ourdifferentiator, which we are
trialing now, is the AMBAcomponent.
Because we want to have peoplehave the opportunity to
(41:12):
understand that we can keep themin their homes longer if we just
understand what's going on withtheir typical daily patterns and
how those are disrupted.
And when they are disrupted...
what can we do so that theydon't have to move out of their
home prematurely?
How do we help caregivers,whether it's family or
otherwise, have a comfort level?
(41:32):
And also in terms of helpingsupport our workers, because our
caregivers, and again, as we,you know, workforce is
challenging and in the home andcommunity-based space, it's
hard.
So if you have a way, adashboard that you have a
central person able to see Weneed to call so-and-so's home or
we need to get out there thisafternoon because we see some
(41:56):
changes happening.
We can do that and have animpact on keeping someone safe
as well as helping them stay athome.
In my future vision, we knowthat people with cognitive
impairment, it's predicted thatthat that population is going to
grow.
(42:16):
And we do know that we may befacing a world where we have
people with cognitive impairmentwho need to live by themselves.
That institutionalization orsuch is not going to be
available to them.
SPEAKER_03 (42:28):
They
SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
don't have family because we're such a mobile
society.
So they're living alone.
So it's like, how do we take aproduct like AMBA into a home of
a person with cognitiveimpairment and help them stay by
themselves with obviouslysupports coming in and out from
the outside, but they are stillable to live in their homes 24-7
(42:53):
by us just monitoring what'shappening through these various
passive sensors.
And I think I've seen some onthe federal side, there are some
grants out there where they arelooking for people to study this
because we know at some pointwe're going to be facing this.
SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
Yeah, we just don't have the caregivers either.
Even if we wanted to do it allhuman community-based or all in
senior living, there just aren'tenough caregivers.
So we have to look for howtechnology can make up the
difference because we don't wantthe care to suffer, and we don't
want the patient experience tosuffer either.
So I'm in the middle of doing aresearch study with another
platform that's using AI.
(43:31):
It sounds pretty similar toAMBA.
And It's been amazing the impactthat it had on the home and
community dwellers, looking atboth that and at assisted
living.
But there's been a huge impacton the home and community
dwellers, especially when itcomes to identifying critical
issues early and either beingable to address them in place or
reduce the amount ofhospitalization, things like
(43:54):
that.
So that study is coming outsoon, but just excited to hear
about how it's working for youas well.
Well, I know, Carol, that youhave inspired me today.
Leave our list with a last bitof inspiration.
SPEAKER_01 (44:09):
Gosh, well, again, you know, know that the door is
wide open in this space.
And if you have the opportunity,I know that it has helped me
significantly in working with myolder adults and their families.
And it has had an impact whenyou can put data out there that
says that you have decreasedfalls by 67 percent, that you've
(44:30):
decreased the use ofantipsychotics by 81 percent.
Wow.
It's real time data.
that tells me we're making adifference.
So whether it's Anvil or other,it's embracing AI that helps
support data that gives yougreat information.
(44:51):
Do it.
I would just, I'm so passionateabout it.
I just feel it's a game changerfor anyone who's working to care
for older
SPEAKER_02 (45:00):
adults.
Absolutely.
I could not agree more.
Thank you so much for joining uson the podcast today and sharing
all the innovative ideas thatyou're doing over there at
Simpson.
Thank you for having me.
It was an honor.
Wonderful.
As always, if you want tocontinue the conversation, you
can find me and Dr.
McKinley on LinkedIn.
Thank you for joining us.
And if you enjoyed today'scontent, don't forget to
(45:21):
subscribe to our podcast.
Remember, it's not just what youknow, but how you apply it that
makes all the difference.
See you next time.
UNKNOWN (45:30):
Bye.
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