August 2, 2023 • 33 mins
In this episode of "The Adaptive Executive," host Greg Ballard interviews Danielle Hughes, the Chief Personality Officer of More Than Words Marketing. Danielle shares her background and journey into marketing and copywriting. She emphasizes the importance of incorporating one's personality into their brand messaging and copywriting. By doing so, individuals can create deeper connections with their audience, attract the right clients, and stand out in the crowded market.
Greg and Danielle discuss the significance of words and narratives in communication and personal branding. They explore how understanding and expressing one's personality can lead to stronger connections within the workplace and improve interactions with clients. Danielle provides valuable advice on using the "About Me Mad Libs" approach to crafting a bio that represents your true self. The episode concludes with the realization that embracing one's personality can lead to increased trust, emotional connections, and better business outcomes. To learn more about this topic, connect with Danielle on LinkedIn or visit her website at More Than Words Copy.
PODCAST INFO
Leave us a 5-Star Review on Podchaser (If we are not 5 stars yet, email us and let us know where we need to improve.)
Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply HERE.
Want to learn more about Greg's work in FiveC Consulting? Check out his website at fivec.consulting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg Ballard (09:13:54):
Hello, and welcome to the adaptive executive. I'm your host, Greg Ballard. And I am joined by the lovely Danielle Hughes. She is the chief personality Officer of more than words marketing. Danielle, a real treat to have you here today.
Unknown (09:14:31):
Hi, so great to be here. Greg, thank you so much for having me.
Greg Ballard (09:14:36):
Absolute pleasure. So Danielle, we got to chat a little bit before we jumped on this episode. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you into the marketing and the copywriting space
Unknown (09:14:50):
who are so I'll try to do the the TLDR version, because I can be very, very verbose. But um, I actually went to college to go way back for advertising design and graphic communications, I thought I was gonna be an art director, and go into agencies and you know, essentially be Don Draper. And at some point, I realized I was a better writer than a designer, came out of school and somehow fell into ad sales marketing for television. So I ended up doing all of the marketing materials that sales would need to go out and sell programming. And this was the very beginning of like sponsored placements and interstitials, and product placement and all of that. And then I was over at a
(09:15:43):
really small agency. For several years, I went from the business to business side to the business to consumer side. And what I realized was that I always had this more sort ofwarm, relatable tone to my writing, even when I was working in b2b. And this was a long time ago, when sales was very salesy. I always kind of recognized that somebody on the other end was making a more emotional decision. And that talking to them as a human being and not just as a brand or a product was going to garner bigger results. So I ended up leaving the workforce if we can get into but I basically got fired. Because I didn't know how to express who I was, and I didn't have to advocate for myself. And we've
(09:16:30):
because freelance or as a copywriter for several years. And then at some point, my pipeline for freelance started to dry up like so many people that kind of go in on theirown, I didn't really set myself up for success, I had no point of view, I was not doing any marketing, I was not doing any networking, I took everything that came my way. And it was not sustainable. And at some point, I realized that I needed to figure out who did I want to serve, and what did I want to be known for. And I had no idea how to do that. So I hired a creative coach. And in the process of working with her to create my company, she was the first person to tell me to put more of my own personality into my
(09:17:16):
website messaging. And coming out of companies for decades, I was super resistant and super reluctant. And what I realized was that the more I did it, the more only the rightclients started to come my way. And from there, everything changed.
Greg Ballard (09:17:37):
Amazing. So I want to come back to something you just said, because I think it's worth unpacking. And so for our listeners, you know, if you're in the management, if you're an executive, if you are inside a small, medium, or even a large organization, you've probably thought about personality, personal branding, at some point, or you've heard about it. And so we're gonna be diving into that today. And the trigger moment that I think I heard you say, Daniel, and maybe you have another trigger moment, but I did not know how to express myself. Can you take us and our listeners back to that moment? unpack that a little bit? What was that? Like? What was really going
(09:18:19):
on internally, and help connect us to that that moment in time?
Unknown (09:18:26):
Yes, so. I'm not sure like at the moment, I would have had the words to articulate that or that I even knew that that's what that was. But I know that I got hired for a role that I probably had no business being hired for. And you know, I like to say didn't understand the assignment, but I don't think they understood the assignment II They're, and
Greg Ballard (09:18:52):
like, that's never happened anywhere, right? Like, nobody's ever been hired for a job that the people hiring them hadn't hadn't really figured out,
Unknown (09:19:01):
correct? Well, you know, and it's the understanding of the words, right? They were basically like, We want someone to come in and shake things up. I heard we want somebody to come and shake things up. What they really meant is we didn't want someone to come in and think,
Greg Ballard (09:19:17):
oh,
Unknown (09:19:18):
you know, and I think I was blinded by the title and the money. And, you know, like, so many people, I went in with the wrong perspective, I didn't ask the right questions, what is the culture like, I was getting hired for a role that didn't have a boss, and I was gonna get a boss after the fact. So already, there's the potential for friction, that I didn't even realize, because I didn't know who'd be managing me. And that person then came in and resented the fact that they didn't get to choose me. So I think I just didn't advocate for myself, because I didn't know what I really wanted. And I didn't know how to articulate the value that I was going to bring to the table. And
(09:20:02):
that is something that I now teach to my clients, is how do you figure out what you bring to the table? How do you foster that connection by amplifying the parts of yourpersonality, that are going to create those connections with a potential employer, or even potential or even clients? Right? Because we want to work with people we like? And we forget that all the time that we have that control?
Greg Ballard (09:20:32):
Yes, we do. We want to work with people we like. Sometimes, though, when we can work with people that we don't always get along with, we can do some very special things.
Unknown (09:20:42):
Okay, fair, fair enough. Do you have an example? I'm gonna put you on the hot seat?
Greg Ballard (09:20:46):
Oh, yeah. So I didn't prepare that one. But I think I've been in several situations where there's other people on the side and around the table, that are doing really important things. Okay, I'll go back to one of my previous roles. I was in charge of standing up an entire new congregation, new site, and you knew it was my site, if you will, but there was other things or the whole production team. And good guy, we just weren't best of buddies. And so we would hit butt heads, our communication director and my words person, we butt heads a lot became best friends afterwards. And so when you get some experts with strong personalities, you know, sometimes you're going to rub,
(09:21:31):
get rubbed the wrong way. And if you're immature, you don't know how to handle that you're gonna break down, if you know who you are, can stay true to yourself, stay true tothe position that you're in. And they do the same. Yeah, you'll butt heads, but you're going to make something really cool. I love
Unknown (09:21:48):
that. And I do think, you know, liking someone doesn't mean you have to like the same things. That is a really important distinction. And I think what you said, like you can find mutual respect, and like for another person who maybe you don't traditionally connect with, because there's something else that is fostering that connection.
Greg Ballard (09:22:11):
I love it. So here's a question for you and take some time to shape this if you like, but how important are words?
Unknown (09:22:19):
I mean, words matter a lot. Depending on the person, you know, I think it's very interesting, because I was listening to a podcast yesterday and one of the guests on the podcast said, Oh, David Byrne. So the from the talking heads, and he was saying like, he may be on the spectrum. It's never been 100% diagnosed. He's like I think I am. And he says when people say certain things to him, he takes them extremely literally, he doesn't get a lot of nuance or sarcasm, like certain things. And he's from New York, which is crazy that he doesn't get sarcasm, but to him, he's like the right words can completely change his entire response, connection, anything with another person. But I
(09:23:10):
think words are so powerful and also how we get to own and frame our own story. And I help people rewrite their bios. And you know, some people really is important to them.They want to control their narrative. Other people don't necessarily understand the value until they do it. And then the words on the page, change how they feel about themselves. And it is like a light bulb going off. Like they just they light up, their shoulders come down, they get more comfortable, they get more confident they might smile, because they've never had some thing that truly represents them that they've been able to put out in the world as there is. That isn't just a cobbling together of
(09:23:57):
random job titles and descriptions that they've had over their career, which were never even written for them in the first place.
Greg Ballard (09:24:05):
It's like going into gtgt chat and send write me a bio. And then okay, that's all true. But it doesn't, I don't feel it.
Unknown (09:24:14):
Correct. Exactly. Like it's a bunch of facts and stats, it's not a story. It's not a narrative. It's, it's not personal.
Greg Ballard (09:24:24):
Right? It we are such creatures of narrative. I mean, like, I kind of worked on this little idiom, if you will, like, we will accept any reasonable story doesn't have to be true, like, any plausible story, and we will follow it. And that is just this history of, of people. We are suckers for a narrative and story. And so But when we're talking about individuals, our stories are real. Our stories are true. And I'm thinking of a text from from I think it's from Proverbs says a word fitly. spoken is like a golden apple on a plate of silver. And so when we're talking about the importance of words, right? And what the words that we use to represent ourselves, how we distinguish
(09:25:17):
ourselves inside, in the marketplace, in our own team. I think sometimes maybe you can speak to this a little bit, do you see people feel like they're trapped in the idea of Ihave to look and be like everybody else? Or are you feeling like, No, I'm the unicorn, and I want to show up like the unicorn. What are you seeing?
Unknown (09:25:39):
I don't think it's trapped. I think a lot of people, especially if you are, as I like to say, north of 40, if you will, Gen Xers were we at you were raised. And you know, and if you're a boomer, or you were raised in a certain mindset for fitting in, and being a certain way, and what is quote unquote, professional. And so it's not, I think it's not trapped, it's it is so hard to change somebody's mindset around that. They recognize it in other people. And it's so interesting, because we will see other people be applauded for their differences, and we will applaud them. And yet when somebody says, Well, why don't you do that? Oh, no, no, no, that's not me. So it's
(09:26:26):
fascinating. And the more people I talk to, the more people are like, Oh, I can help someone else with their message and their bio, and I'm so good at recognizing what's goodabout them. I cannot do it for myself. So I think a lot of it is a combination of being stuck, being afraid. The fear is a huge one, right? Fear of rejection, fear of being too different. What if they don't like me? And then also like, how does this help me? Right? How does my personality really add value to my message or to an organization?
Greg Ballard (09:27:01):
Fantastic question. And I'm curious, working with the folks you've worked with, and you said, you talked about senior managers, executives, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, people inside of companies that are growing, when you've worked with somebody coming in coming into your program and saying, hey, I want to sort this out. And then they are coming out saying they got it sorted out, what's changed for them.
Unknown (09:27:26):
I mean, what's changed is how they show up, you know, inside their organization, and externally, a lot of them have been resisting being thought leaders for their companies, especially on LinkedIn, because they will say, I don't want anyone to go to my page, I don't want anyone reading my bio. So therefore, I am not posting articles for my company, I am not engaging. And that changes the minute that they have something they're proud of, and that represents them all of a sudden, now they can start being a thought leader. Now they're an ambassador for their organization. So it changes for them, and it changes for the company. And then internally, I think it allows them to then
(09:28:08):
really start sharing more of their personality with their co workers if they haven't before, and bringing and then if you're a manager, hopefully bringing that out in yourteam as well. Right? If you have a bio that now talks about how you run marathons, or you know, you want to I will say I want to visit every wine region in the world, right? That's a starting point for connection and then they can start saying, you know, what do you like to do or what do you do for fun or tell me about your hobbies? Let's get to know each other a little bit more. And then it's not just about the work, it's about the person.
Greg Ballard (09:28:44):
Yes. And we live in an age where connection is really what people are looking for. Because we can you can you can spend 20 years, most people don't spend 20 years in a job less than two or three, you can spend two or three years at a job with people, and really never get to know them beyond what they do in that job. Yes, especially today. Yeah, and especially today with, you know, hey, look, now we have zoom technology, we do a lot of things virtually, we're working from home, we're even more remote. Some people are asynchronous text only, right? And then what you know that person's in Avatar, and then their text, communications. There's no human connection, a
(09:29:24):
grade and so in, you know, my background, that's a huge part of who we are, I mean, part of our longevity is tied to our ability to connect with other human beings, and notconnect in just like, hi, I see you. But connect in this is something important to me. And it's important to you. And until we're able to kind of let the guard down and say, Hey, these are the things that are important to me, you're never going to know. Right? So. And personality is a few different layers. And so I want to talk a little bit of it, I want to manage your time, but how do you take someone's personality into account? As you're working through this? Are you using any instruments or assessment tools? Or, you
(09:30:07):
know, is that part of what you do?
Unknown (09:30:10):
I don't know, sometimes they'll come to me. And they'll have, they'll tell me oh, I've taken these profiles. And I have some information. So one of my previous clients recently had done a ton with her former company and she had pages of things that people said about her and all of her like skills and things and not skills, her you know, the things that you're all good at, you're there's like the ones that assess only the good things that you have, oh, my god, the StrengthsFinder Strengths Finder, thank you. You don't have to cut that we just let people know. I'm human. Yeah, so like, heard all her strengths. And so I had a bounty of information to work with. But it's still
(09:30:54):
she was transitioning and starting her own kind of company. So a lot of that was relevant. But a lot of it wasn't because it was under a different lens. So it was helpful forus to have a conversation in a way that she was like, but this is kind of not really who I am or who our how I see myself. So it ended up helping us kind of really give her her own perspective and her own voice because when she could see it on the page, she could recognize the things that she wanted to focus on, and the things that she felt weren't really benefiting her moving forward. So I have a couple of materials that I use with my own clients that I've created. Two in particular, and one is not
(09:31:39):
revolutionary, it's you know, brand positioning. So figuring out, you know, who you are, who you serve what you do differently, and like the benefit that someone's gonna getwhen they work with you. And I have a process where we work through that and we figure it out. And then I created something called about me mad libs, which uses the Mad Libs format, so that you can start to fill in your bio and your story. And the reason that I did this is because the number one thing people say is I don't know where to start. Like, they could stare at the page, and they have no idea what to include. And so this makes it sort of fun, but really hard for them to tell their story. And I give them kind
(09:32:21):
of some straightforward prompts and some more whimsical prompts. And it's really fascinating to see what people end up sharing about themselves, or what they think isinteresting about them. And to me, that's a much better tool, but profiles can be helpful as well. It's just not part of my normal, everyday
Greg Ballard (09:32:43):
process. Understood, we use profiles all the time, we talked before, we are huge fans of the Everything DiSC tools, five behaviors, and I can keep going but personality is a relevant discussion inside the workforce inside the home. It with parents, kids family, because your personality style is how you operate. And I cannot tell you how many times I've come into an organization. And you know, there's just a lack of awareness of what personalities are and what they how they how they show up. And so what can happen is you can get so I'm going to use the disk model but you can get a D and an S. So a D is very driven very dominant. You know, they're often either driven by
(09:33:27):
the question what what do you want, what do you need what will get you out of my way? And and they hire somebody that want they need help, right? And so they hire say an S,you know, the steady, you do the steady person that's going to say, hey, I want peace, like how will this impact everybody? How is this going to impact me? You know, they're very warm, but they're all So very reserved. And those two personalities like they're just opposite ends, you a d and a d. So, and I've had I've had an AST work for me and I'll tell you the story. Picture grandma, okay, 98 pounds, probably soaking wet, you know, four foot three. And she was coming to she was working on a project and I had given
(09:34:14):
her a task and, and I was just like, hey, you know what's going on with x? I forgot what it was. But I said this to her. And as a D, you know, young guy, good volume. Youlook, it looked like I just shoot, she physically threw her head back. Like I punched her in the face. I quickly said, hey, you know you do. We'll talk later. I surprised you. But it got me thinking that my personality. If unaware, unchecked, unmanaged, k will steamroll an S type personality. And it's not like I'm doing anything wrong. But what ends up happening is as DS get labeled jerk, we get labeled blunt, we get really, really labeled too pushy. And, and then that gets it turns into resentment. On the other side,
(09:35:06):
exes could be indecisive, too quiet, will judge them, as you know, you're not quite up to par. Right? Okay, and having insight into your personality style, and the othersaround, you can help you release a lot of that we recently done this where we've got people won't get in the same room with each other, do the DISC profile, we start explaining this, and they're just like, ah, that's why you do that. That's why you talk so directly to me. That's why you are wishy washy with these decisions. It's not because what I thought is your personal and your style has value. Every style has
Unknown (09:35:51):
100%, I think you hit the nail on the head. And to me, the profiles never show you anything about yourself that you probably don't know, what they tell you is how other people perceive you. And that is the missing piece. And I know we talked right offline that I took a DISC profile assessment at one of my previous jobs and basically changed everything for me. Because I went in the same thing. I'm like, I know what I am. I'm this, I'm that. And I had been really butting heads with a co worker. And we just did not like each other and it was getting problematic. And we did the assessment. And the minute that I heard how people perceive my personality type, it was like the heavens
(09:36:39):
open. And it was like, Oh, it was like, Oh, my God, you I am thinking I am just getting stuff done. And I'm just gonna turn it out. And I'm this and she's thinking I'm coldand standoffish, and rude and terse, and all of these things. And similarly, I don't know if she was an ask, but like, we had a very, she was very disturbed Muir and beat around the bush. And I was like, Oh, my God, just spit it out already. And we had it come to Jesus after this assessment, and we are still friends to this day. Oh, that's amazing. And I will say that that has stayed in my brain all the time. And I have, I think I have a very high level of self awareness because of it. And I think that that is
(09:37:22):
part of personality is not just, this is who I am, take it or leave it. And that is not what we are saying it's, this is who I am. How do I use that? To connect with otherpeople who are like me? Or who aren't like me? And how do I show the value in that?
Greg Ballard (09:37:39):
Absolutely. And we will call that abusive personality to just excuse your behavior. It's never, you're never going to use, you know, a personality instrument to say, Oh, well, I'm just a D, you're going to have to deal with me being a jerk. Right? No, that's not the point of the, of this process is to create some awareness because the reality is, is we're all part of we're part of all of the all of the styles, it just takes some times more energy effort to go there. And you need to recognize when when it's time to do that. So we can transition off of this for a second here, but personalities are depart every day life. And and you call it you know, so let's talk about this for a
(09:38:27):
second. You call yourself the chief personality officer. Give us some thinking behind that. Why that title?
Unknown (09:38:35):
Um, I you know, so when I started my company, and I didn't really get into this earlier, I wrote a blog post or a newsletter very early on because my coach was like, You're a writer, you have to have a newsletter. And I resisted because I didn't want to do just another marketing newsletter, because who needs that? Who needs five more ways or three more things or whatever. And I said, you know, if I write it more like a blog, or if I make it more about story, I'm more likely to write it. And I had this thought one day about personal brand versus personality. Personal Brand, the title just never sat right with me. It always personal means private, like literally in the dictionary,
(09:39:18):
right? Words matter. Why are we sharing everything personal about ourselves, with strangers on the internet, co workers, etc. But our personality is who we are, it is alwayson display. Every interaction we have with another human being, they are getting a taste of our personality. And we are usually dialing it up or dialing it down depending on who we're talking to. You know, so our friends and family get a ton of our personality, new people we meet get a little bit and then we're figuring out how much of them we how much of ourselves we want them to see. And what I realized was after I wrote this, people started to really respond to that. And a lot of people wrote me, especially people
(09:40:01):
that are more introverted, saying, Oh, my God, like, as an introvert, like, I just never understood personal brand, I don't really want people to know a lot about me. But Ialso feel like if I don't include something, I'm generic. And so to me, the difference between being generic and sounding like everyone else, and needing to stand out for who you are, and what you bring to the table, is personality. So when I say cheap personality, often, it's because I help people bring more of themselves into their message. And the idea is you want to attract the right people. But you also want to repel the wrong people being go write your bio should do thing getting for you.
Greg Ballard (09:40:42):
I was just gonna go there. So after you've worked with folks, what do they say about the people that are coming around them?
Unknown (09:40:48):
That they're much more aligned? Correct? Yes, almost. And that's the beauty. To me, there's nothing better than somebody who says you're exactly what I expected. That is the holy grail, because that means that who you are here is who you are on the page. You are comfortable in both places and spaces, and that you're not constantly thinking about what you have to not say protect, etc. You never want someone to say, Oh, I'm not sure this is working. I'm not sure we're a fit. To me. It's like we're a fit. And then it's just is the budget right? Is the timing right is the need right, etc.
Greg Ballard (09:41:27):
Yeah. And then I think we're also seeing, I think this is not just anecdotal. But this is kind of established, we're seeing people making buying decisions based on an alignment of values, alignment of, of a lot of different things, you know, where are you aligned with an organization with an individual. And if they don't know you, if they can't see your personality, they don't, you know, you're talking about an output, right? an ROI only, not necessarily the journey, not necessarily, that you share their mindsets and beliefs and attitudes about x thing. And so I think people make these decisions about buying off of that next level of insight into who you are
Unknown (09:42:15):
100 I mean, you want to be comfortable, right with the person that you are working with, whether they're in sales, whether they're not, if you don't create a comfort level with them, they're not going to trust you, and therefore they're not going to give you their money, or anything. You know, the second most visited page on any company's website is the about page. Because we all want to know who is behind the curtain? Who started this company? Why did they do it? What's their story? Are they a real human? Give me the story behind this. That's what's gonna make me emotionally connect to an organization?
Greg Ballard (09:42:51):
Absolutely. This has been a fantastic conversation. And I think we could continue on for hours. But that's what I want to offer is, is there something you can something actionable, that our listeners can maybe take on their own take a sheet of paper and and do something that can help unlock a little bit of this? That's question one. Question two is if somebody wanted to connect with you, you know, they go to your LinkedIn, you have a website, can you? You know, if somebody wants to follow up with you, how do they find you?
Unknown (09:43:21):
Sure. So, first one, I'll give you sort of two easy ways to kind of get started with thinking about this and what you could do this action of all. The first one is, what if you were stuck in an elevator with someone that you didn't know? What is the one thing you could talk about for an hour? With no barriers unencumbered? That would give you so much joy to talk to this person about your hobby, your passion? Is it music? Is it movies? Is it To the sports that you do a team cooking, what is that one thing that you love to do, and go put that in your LinkedIn profile. The second thing is to ask five people in your life for three words that come to mind when they think of you. And it
(09:44:05):
should be different types of people from different walks of life. But I guarantee you that multiple people will come back with either the same word or similar words. And thoseare traits in you that they value, that the right employer or the right customers or clients will value and that you probably take for granted because it just comes naturally to you that you're not even playing it up as a string.
Greg Ballard (09:44:32):
Above that, one thing you can talk about, do I have to keep it the one thing there's probably four or five I can talk about? I can talk though, I can talk for an hour about a few things. And then ask five people to give you three words that describe you
Unknown (09:44:47):
that come to mind when they think of you know, what's a trait or characteristic and you don't have don't get too specific. The key is to be more vague. Today, like what are three words that come to mind when you think of me? God? Love it? And, you know, some people are like, well, you know, everyone says, Oh, you're so thoughtful. What do I do with that? Okay, well, do you work in an organization where you have a lot of meetings? Are you the person that can maybe recognize people who aren't getting called on on a regular basis in a meeting that you can raise the red flag? And let your manager know? Are you the person that remembers client birthdays? thoughtfulness, can be
(09:45:23):
translated in ways that are a value and benefit outside of just yourself thoughtful. So you know, think about that.
Greg Ballard (09:45:31):
Love it. Yeah. And then,
Unknown (09:45:34):
and then how they can connect with me. Yes, I'm on LinkedIn, Daniel Hughes. My website is more than words. copy.com you can definitely find me there. I have a newsletter. Like I said, that goes out every other Friday. And said, like I said, it will never be three ways or five things but I promise you will rethink messaging and personality every time you read it. And you can also find me on Instagram, Daniel Z. Hughes. I'm on threads kind of I don't know, who knows we'll threads by the time this airs will thread slowly a thing. Who knows? We will say.
Greg Ballard (09:46:10):
All right, and then the last question, we're gonna get you. We're gonna wrap up here. What's your favorite book on leadership? Your favorite book on leadership?
Unknown (09:46:16):
Oh, um, I don't read a lot of books on leadership. Um, but I really loved brag better by Meredith Feynman. It's awesome. And I think, especially for women, we tend to downplay how amazing we are. And this book tells you not only why you should, but how. So and for everyone, we should all be because you're bragging in service of how you can help someone you're not just bragging for the sake of bragging.
Greg Ballard (09:46:50):
Fantastic Danielle Hughes chief personality officer, more than words marketing. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Unknown (09:46:57):
Thank you, Greg. This was great.
Hello, and welcome to the adaptive executive. I'm your host, Greg Ballard. And I am joined by the lovely Danielle Hughes. She is the chief personality Officer of more than words marketing. Danielle, a real treat to have you here today.
Unknown (09:14:31):
Hi, so great to be here. Greg, thank you so much for having me.
Greg Ballard (09:14:36):
Absolute pleasure. So Danielle, we got to chat a little bit before we jumped on this episode. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you into the marketing and the copywriting space
Unknown (09:14:50):
who are so I'll try to do the the TLDR version, because I can be very, very verbose. But um, I actually went to college to go way back for advertising design and graphic communications, I thought I was gonna be an art director, and go into agencies and you know, essentially be Don Draper. And at some point, I realized I was a better writer than a designer, came out of school and somehow fell into ad sales marketing for television. So I ended up doing all of the marketing materials that sales would need to go out and sell programming. And this was the very beginning of like sponsored placements and interstitials, and product placement and all of that. And then I was over at a
(09:15:43):
really small agency. For several years, I went from the business to business side to the business to consumer side. And what I realized was that I always had this more sort ofwarm, relatable tone to my writing, even when I was working in b2b. And this was a long time ago, when sales was very salesy. I always kind of recognized that somebody on the other end was making a more emotional decision. And that talking to them as a human being and not just as a brand or a product was going to garner bigger results. So I ended up leaving the workforce if we can get into but I basically got fired. Because I didn't know how to express who I was, and I didn't have to advocate for myself. And we've
(09:16:30):
because freelance or as a copywriter for several years. And then at some point, my pipeline for freelance started to dry up like so many people that kind of go in on theirown, I didn't really set myself up for success, I had no point of view, I was not doing any marketing, I was not doing any networking, I took everything that came my way. And it was not sustainable. And at some point, I realized that I needed to figure out who did I want to serve, and what did I want to be known for. And I had no idea how to do that. So I hired a creative coach. And in the process of working with her to create my company, she was the first person to tell me to put more of my own personality into my
(09:17:16):
website messaging. And coming out of companies for decades, I was super resistant and super reluctant. And what I realized was that the more I did it, the more only the rightclients started to come my way. And from there, everything changed.
Greg Ballard (09:17:37):
Amazing. So I want to come back to something you just said, because I think it's worth unpacking. And so for our listeners, you know, if you're in the management, if you're an executive, if you are inside a small, medium, or even a large organization, you've probably thought about personality, personal branding, at some point, or you've heard about it. And so we're gonna be diving into that today. And the trigger moment that I think I heard you say, Daniel, and maybe you have another trigger moment, but I did not know how to express myself. Can you take us and our listeners back to that moment? unpack that a little bit? What was that? Like? What was really going
(09:18:19):
on internally, and help connect us to that that moment in time?
Unknown (09:18:26):
Yes, so. I'm not sure like at the moment, I would have had the words to articulate that or that I even knew that that's what that was. But I know that I got hired for a role that I probably had no business being hired for. And you know, I like to say didn't understand the assignment, but I don't think they understood the assignment II They're, and
Greg Ballard (09:18:52):
like, that's never happened anywhere, right? Like, nobody's ever been hired for a job that the people hiring them hadn't hadn't really figured out,
Unknown (09:19:01):
correct? Well, you know, and it's the understanding of the words, right? They were basically like, We want someone to come in and shake things up. I heard we want somebody to come and shake things up. What they really meant is we didn't want someone to come in and think,
Greg Ballard (09:19:17):
oh,
Unknown (09:19:18):
you know, and I think I was blinded by the title and the money. And, you know, like, so many people, I went in with the wrong perspective, I didn't ask the right questions, what is the culture like, I was getting hired for a role that didn't have a boss, and I was gonna get a boss after the fact. So already, there's the potential for friction, that I didn't even realize, because I didn't know who'd be managing me. And that person then came in and resented the fact that they didn't get to choose me. So I think I just didn't advocate for myself, because I didn't know what I really wanted. And I didn't know how to articulate the value that I was going to bring to the table. And
(09:20:02):
that is something that I now teach to my clients, is how do you figure out what you bring to the table? How do you foster that connection by amplifying the parts of yourpersonality, that are going to create those connections with a potential employer, or even potential or even clients? Right? Because we want to work with people we like? And we forget that all the time that we have that control?
Greg Ballard (09:20:32):
Yes, we do. We want to work with people we like. Sometimes, though, when we can work with people that we don't always get along with, we can do some very special things.
Unknown (09:20:42):
Okay, fair, fair enough. Do you have an example? I'm gonna put you on the hot seat?
Greg Ballard (09:20:46):
Oh, yeah. So I didn't prepare that one. But I think I've been in several situations where there's other people on the side and around the table, that are doing really important things. Okay, I'll go back to one of my previous roles. I was in charge of standing up an entire new congregation, new site, and you knew it was my site, if you will, but there was other things or the whole production team. And good guy, we just weren't best of buddies. And so we would hit butt heads, our communication director and my words person, we butt heads a lot became best friends afterwards. And so when you get some experts with strong personalities, you know, sometimes you're going to rub,
(09:21:31):
get rubbed the wrong way. And if you're immature, you don't know how to handle that you're gonna break down, if you know who you are, can stay true to yourself, stay true tothe position that you're in. And they do the same. Yeah, you'll butt heads, but you're going to make something really cool. I love
Unknown (09:21:48):
that. And I do think, you know, liking someone doesn't mean you have to like the same things. That is a really important distinction. And I think what you said, like you can find mutual respect, and like for another person who maybe you don't traditionally connect with, because there's something else that is fostering that connection.
Greg Ballard (09:22:11):
I love it. So here's a question for you and take some time to shape this if you like, but how important are words?
Unknown (09:22:19):
I mean, words matter a lot. Depending on the person, you know, I think it's very interesting, because I was listening to a podcast yesterday and one of the guests on the podcast said, Oh, David Byrne. So the from the talking heads, and he was saying like, he may be on the spectrum. It's never been 100% diagnosed. He's like I think I am. And he says when people say certain things to him, he takes them extremely literally, he doesn't get a lot of nuance or sarcasm, like certain things. And he's from New York, which is crazy that he doesn't get sarcasm, but to him, he's like the right words can completely change his entire response, connection, anything with another person. But I
(09:23:10):
think words are so powerful and also how we get to own and frame our own story. And I help people rewrite their bios. And you know, some people really is important to them.They want to control their narrative. Other people don't necessarily understand the value until they do it. And then the words on the page, change how they feel about themselves. And it is like a light bulb going off. Like they just they light up, their shoulders come down, they get more comfortable, they get more confident they might smile, because they've never had some thing that truly represents them that they've been able to put out in the world as there is. That isn't just a cobbling together of
(09:23:57):
random job titles and descriptions that they've had over their career, which were never even written for them in the first place.
Greg Ballard (09:24:05):
It's like going into gtgt chat and send write me a bio. And then okay, that's all true. But it doesn't, I don't feel it.
Unknown (09:24:14):
Correct. Exactly. Like it's a bunch of facts and stats, it's not a story. It's not a narrative. It's, it's not personal.
Greg Ballard (09:24:24):
Right? It we are such creatures of narrative. I mean, like, I kind of worked on this little idiom, if you will, like, we will accept any reasonable story doesn't have to be true, like, any plausible story, and we will follow it. And that is just this history of, of people. We are suckers for a narrative and story. And so But when we're talking about individuals, our stories are real. Our stories are true. And I'm thinking of a text from from I think it's from Proverbs says a word fitly. spoken is like a golden apple on a plate of silver. And so when we're talking about the importance of words, right? And what the words that we use to represent ourselves, how we distinguish
(09:25:17):
ourselves inside, in the marketplace, in our own team. I think sometimes maybe you can speak to this a little bit, do you see people feel like they're trapped in the idea of Ihave to look and be like everybody else? Or are you feeling like, No, I'm the unicorn, and I want to show up like the unicorn. What are you seeing?
Unknown (09:25:39):
I don't think it's trapped. I think a lot of people, especially if you are, as I like to say, north of 40, if you will, Gen Xers were we at you were raised. And you know, and if you're a boomer, or you were raised in a certain mindset for fitting in, and being a certain way, and what is quote unquote, professional. And so it's not, I think it's not trapped, it's it is so hard to change somebody's mindset around that. They recognize it in other people. And it's so interesting, because we will see other people be applauded for their differences, and we will applaud them. And yet when somebody says, Well, why don't you do that? Oh, no, no, no, that's not me. So it's
(09:26:26):
fascinating. And the more people I talk to, the more people are like, Oh, I can help someone else with their message and their bio, and I'm so good at recognizing what's goodabout them. I cannot do it for myself. So I think a lot of it is a combination of being stuck, being afraid. The fear is a huge one, right? Fear of rejection, fear of being too different. What if they don't like me? And then also like, how does this help me? Right? How does my personality really add value to my message or to an organization?
Greg Ballard (09:27:01):
Fantastic question. And I'm curious, working with the folks you've worked with, and you said, you talked about senior managers, executives, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, people inside of companies that are growing, when you've worked with somebody coming in coming into your program and saying, hey, I want to sort this out. And then they are coming out saying they got it sorted out, what's changed for them.
Unknown (09:27:26):
I mean, what's changed is how they show up, you know, inside their organization, and externally, a lot of them have been resisting being thought leaders for their companies, especially on LinkedIn, because they will say, I don't want anyone to go to my page, I don't want anyone reading my bio. So therefore, I am not posting articles for my company, I am not engaging. And that changes the minute that they have something they're proud of, and that represents them all of a sudden, now they can start being a thought leader. Now they're an ambassador for their organization. So it changes for them, and it changes for the company. And then internally, I think it allows them to then
(09:28:08):
really start sharing more of their personality with their co workers if they haven't before, and bringing and then if you're a manager, hopefully bringing that out in yourteam as well. Right? If you have a bio that now talks about how you run marathons, or you know, you want to I will say I want to visit every wine region in the world, right? That's a starting point for connection and then they can start saying, you know, what do you like to do or what do you do for fun or tell me about your hobbies? Let's get to know each other a little bit more. And then it's not just about the work, it's about the person.
Greg Ballard (09:28:44):
Yes. And we live in an age where connection is really what people are looking for. Because we can you can you can spend 20 years, most people don't spend 20 years in a job less than two or three, you can spend two or three years at a job with people, and really never get to know them beyond what they do in that job. Yes, especially today. Yeah, and especially today with, you know, hey, look, now we have zoom technology, we do a lot of things virtually, we're working from home, we're even more remote. Some people are asynchronous text only, right? And then what you know that person's in Avatar, and then their text, communications. There's no human connection, a
(09:29:24):
grade and so in, you know, my background, that's a huge part of who we are, I mean, part of our longevity is tied to our ability to connect with other human beings, and notconnect in just like, hi, I see you. But connect in this is something important to me. And it's important to you. And until we're able to kind of let the guard down and say, Hey, these are the things that are important to me, you're never going to know. Right? So. And personality is a few different layers. And so I want to talk a little bit of it, I want to manage your time, but how do you take someone's personality into account? As you're working through this? Are you using any instruments or assessment tools? Or, you
(09:30:07):
know, is that part of what you do?
Unknown (09:30:10):
I don't know, sometimes they'll come to me. And they'll have, they'll tell me oh, I've taken these profiles. And I have some information. So one of my previous clients recently had done a ton with her former company and she had pages of things that people said about her and all of her like skills and things and not skills, her you know, the things that you're all good at, you're there's like the ones that assess only the good things that you have, oh, my god, the StrengthsFinder Strengths Finder, thank you. You don't have to cut that we just let people know. I'm human. Yeah, so like, heard all her strengths. And so I had a bounty of information to work with. But it's still
(09:30:54):
she was transitioning and starting her own kind of company. So a lot of that was relevant. But a lot of it wasn't because it was under a different lens. So it was helpful forus to have a conversation in a way that she was like, but this is kind of not really who I am or who our how I see myself. So it ended up helping us kind of really give her her own perspective and her own voice because when she could see it on the page, she could recognize the things that she wanted to focus on, and the things that she felt weren't really benefiting her moving forward. So I have a couple of materials that I use with my own clients that I've created. Two in particular, and one is not
(09:31:39):
revolutionary, it's you know, brand positioning. So figuring out, you know, who you are, who you serve what you do differently, and like the benefit that someone's gonna getwhen they work with you. And I have a process where we work through that and we figure it out. And then I created something called about me mad libs, which uses the Mad Libs format, so that you can start to fill in your bio and your story. And the reason that I did this is because the number one thing people say is I don't know where to start. Like, they could stare at the page, and they have no idea what to include. And so this makes it sort of fun, but really hard for them to tell their story. And I give them kind
(09:32:21):
of some straightforward prompts and some more whimsical prompts. And it's really fascinating to see what people end up sharing about themselves, or what they think isinteresting about them. And to me, that's a much better tool, but profiles can be helpful as well. It's just not part of my normal, everyday
Greg Ballard (09:32:43):
process. Understood, we use profiles all the time, we talked before, we are huge fans of the Everything DiSC tools, five behaviors, and I can keep going but personality is a relevant discussion inside the workforce inside the home. It with parents, kids family, because your personality style is how you operate. And I cannot tell you how many times I've come into an organization. And you know, there's just a lack of awareness of what personalities are and what they how they how they show up. And so what can happen is you can get so I'm going to use the disk model but you can get a D and an S. So a D is very driven very dominant. You know, they're often either driven by
(09:33:27):
the question what what do you want, what do you need what will get you out of my way? And and they hire somebody that want they need help, right? And so they hire say an S,you know, the steady, you do the steady person that's going to say, hey, I want peace, like how will this impact everybody? How is this going to impact me? You know, they're very warm, but they're all So very reserved. And those two personalities like they're just opposite ends, you a d and a d. So, and I've had I've had an AST work for me and I'll tell you the story. Picture grandma, okay, 98 pounds, probably soaking wet, you know, four foot three. And she was coming to she was working on a project and I had given
(09:34:14):
her a task and, and I was just like, hey, you know what's going on with x? I forgot what it was. But I said this to her. And as a D, you know, young guy, good volume. Youlook, it looked like I just shoot, she physically threw her head back. Like I punched her in the face. I quickly said, hey, you know you do. We'll talk later. I surprised you. But it got me thinking that my personality. If unaware, unchecked, unmanaged, k will steamroll an S type personality. And it's not like I'm doing anything wrong. But what ends up happening is as DS get labeled jerk, we get labeled blunt, we get really, really labeled too pushy. And, and then that gets it turns into resentment. On the other side,
(09:35:06):
exes could be indecisive, too quiet, will judge them, as you know, you're not quite up to par. Right? Okay, and having insight into your personality style, and the othersaround, you can help you release a lot of that we recently done this where we've got people won't get in the same room with each other, do the DISC profile, we start explaining this, and they're just like, ah, that's why you do that. That's why you talk so directly to me. That's why you are wishy washy with these decisions. It's not because what I thought is your personal and your style has value. Every style has
Unknown (09:35:51):
100%, I think you hit the nail on the head. And to me, the profiles never show you anything about yourself that you probably don't know, what they tell you is how other people perceive you. And that is the missing piece. And I know we talked right offline that I took a DISC profile assessment at one of my previous jobs and basically changed everything for me. Because I went in the same thing. I'm like, I know what I am. I'm this, I'm that. And I had been really butting heads with a co worker. And we just did not like each other and it was getting problematic. And we did the assessment. And the minute that I heard how people perceive my personality type, it was like the heavens
(09:36:39):
open. And it was like, Oh, it was like, Oh, my God, you I am thinking I am just getting stuff done. And I'm just gonna turn it out. And I'm this and she's thinking I'm coldand standoffish, and rude and terse, and all of these things. And similarly, I don't know if she was an ask, but like, we had a very, she was very disturbed Muir and beat around the bush. And I was like, Oh, my God, just spit it out already. And we had it come to Jesus after this assessment, and we are still friends to this day. Oh, that's amazing. And I will say that that has stayed in my brain all the time. And I have, I think I have a very high level of self awareness because of it. And I think that that is
(09:37:22):
part of personality is not just, this is who I am, take it or leave it. And that is not what we are saying it's, this is who I am. How do I use that? To connect with otherpeople who are like me? Or who aren't like me? And how do I show the value in that?
Greg Ballard (09:37:39):
Absolutely. And we will call that abusive personality to just excuse your behavior. It's never, you're never going to use, you know, a personality instrument to say, Oh, well, I'm just a D, you're going to have to deal with me being a jerk. Right? No, that's not the point of the, of this process is to create some awareness because the reality is, is we're all part of we're part of all of the all of the styles, it just takes some times more energy effort to go there. And you need to recognize when when it's time to do that. So we can transition off of this for a second here, but personalities are depart every day life. And and you call it you know, so let's talk about this for a
(09:38:27):
second. You call yourself the chief personality officer. Give us some thinking behind that. Why that title?
Unknown (09:38:35):
Um, I you know, so when I started my company, and I didn't really get into this earlier, I wrote a blog post or a newsletter very early on because my coach was like, You're a writer, you have to have a newsletter. And I resisted because I didn't want to do just another marketing newsletter, because who needs that? Who needs five more ways or three more things or whatever. And I said, you know, if I write it more like a blog, or if I make it more about story, I'm more likely to write it. And I had this thought one day about personal brand versus personality. Personal Brand, the title just never sat right with me. It always personal means private, like literally in the dictionary,
(09:39:18):
right? Words matter. Why are we sharing everything personal about ourselves, with strangers on the internet, co workers, etc. But our personality is who we are, it is alwayson display. Every interaction we have with another human being, they are getting a taste of our personality. And we are usually dialing it up or dialing it down depending on who we're talking to. You know, so our friends and family get a ton of our personality, new people we meet get a little bit and then we're figuring out how much of them we how much of ourselves we want them to see. And what I realized was after I wrote this, people started to really respond to that. And a lot of people wrote me, especially people
(09:40:01):
that are more introverted, saying, Oh, my God, like, as an introvert, like, I just never understood personal brand, I don't really want people to know a lot about me. But Ialso feel like if I don't include something, I'm generic. And so to me, the difference between being generic and sounding like everyone else, and needing to stand out for who you are, and what you bring to the table, is personality. So when I say cheap personality, often, it's because I help people bring more of themselves into their message. And the idea is you want to attract the right people. But you also want to repel the wrong people being go write your bio should do thing getting for you.
Greg Ballard (09:40:42):
I was just gonna go there. So after you've worked with folks, what do they say about the people that are coming around them?
Unknown (09:40:48):
That they're much more aligned? Correct? Yes, almost. And that's the beauty. To me, there's nothing better than somebody who says you're exactly what I expected. That is the holy grail, because that means that who you are here is who you are on the page. You are comfortable in both places and spaces, and that you're not constantly thinking about what you have to not say protect, etc. You never want someone to say, Oh, I'm not sure this is working. I'm not sure we're a fit. To me. It's like we're a fit. And then it's just is the budget right? Is the timing right is the need right, etc.
Greg Ballard (09:41:27):
Yeah. And then I think we're also seeing, I think this is not just anecdotal. But this is kind of established, we're seeing people making buying decisions based on an alignment of values, alignment of, of a lot of different things, you know, where are you aligned with an organization with an individual. And if they don't know you, if they can't see your personality, they don't, you know, you're talking about an output, right? an ROI only, not necessarily the journey, not necessarily, that you share their mindsets and beliefs and attitudes about x thing. And so I think people make these decisions about buying off of that next level of insight into who you are
Unknown (09:42:15):
100 I mean, you want to be comfortable, right with the person that you are working with, whether they're in sales, whether they're not, if you don't create a comfort level with them, they're not going to trust you, and therefore they're not going to give you their money, or anything. You know, the second most visited page on any company's website is the about page. Because we all want to know who is behind the curtain? Who started this company? Why did they do it? What's their story? Are they a real human? Give me the story behind this. That's what's gonna make me emotionally connect to an organization?
Greg Ballard (09:42:51):
Absolutely. This has been a fantastic conversation. And I think we could continue on for hours. But that's what I want to offer is, is there something you can something actionable, that our listeners can maybe take on their own take a sheet of paper and and do something that can help unlock a little bit of this? That's question one. Question two is if somebody wanted to connect with you, you know, they go to your LinkedIn, you have a website, can you? You know, if somebody wants to follow up with you, how do they find you?
Unknown (09:43:21):
Sure. So, first one, I'll give you sort of two easy ways to kind of get started with thinking about this and what you could do this action of all. The first one is, what if you were stuck in an elevator with someone that you didn't know? What is the one thing you could talk about for an hour? With no barriers unencumbered? That would give you so much joy to talk to this person about your hobby, your passion? Is it music? Is it movies? Is it To the sports that you do a team cooking, what is that one thing that you love to do, and go put that in your LinkedIn profile. The second thing is to ask five people in your life for three words that come to mind when they think of you. And it
(09:44:05):
should be different types of people from different walks of life. But I guarantee you that multiple people will come back with either the same word or similar words. And thoseare traits in you that they value, that the right employer or the right customers or clients will value and that you probably take for granted because it just comes naturally to you that you're not even playing it up as a string.
Greg Ballard (09:44:32):
Above that, one thing you can talk about, do I have to keep it the one thing there's probably four or five I can talk about? I can talk though, I can talk for an hour about a few things. And then ask five people to give you three words that describe you
Unknown (09:44:47):
that come to mind when they think of you know, what's a trait or characteristic and you don't have don't get too specific. The key is to be more vague. Today, like what are three words that come to mind when you think of me? God? Love it? And, you know, some people are like, well, you know, everyone says, Oh, you're so thoughtful. What do I do with that? Okay, well, do you work in an organization where you have a lot of meetings? Are you the person that can maybe recognize people who aren't getting called on on a regular basis in a meeting that you can raise the red flag? And let your manager know? Are you the person that remembers client birthdays? thoughtfulness, can be
(09:45:23):
translated in ways that are a value and benefit outside of just yourself thoughtful. So you know, think about that.
Greg Ballard (09:45:31):
Love it. Yeah. And then,
Unknown (09:45:34):
and then how they can connect with me. Yes, I'm on LinkedIn, Daniel Hughes. My website is more than words. copy.com you can definitely find me there. I have a newsletter. Like I said, that goes out every other Friday. And said, like I said, it will never be three ways or five things but I promise you will rethink messaging and personality every time you read it. And you can also find me on Instagram, Daniel Z. Hughes. I'm on threads kind of I don't know, who knows we'll threads by the time this airs will thread slowly a thing. Who knows? We will say.
Greg Ballard (09:46:10):
All right, and then the last question, we're gonna get you. We're gonna wrap up here. What's your favorite book on leadership? Your favorite book on leadership?
Unknown (09:46:16):
Oh, um, I don't read a lot of books on leadership. Um, but I really loved brag better by Meredith Feynman. It's awesome. And I think, especially for women, we tend to downplay how amazing we are. And this book tells you not only why you should, but how. So and for everyone, we should all be because you're bragging in service of how you can help someone you're not just bragging for the sake of bragging.
Greg Ballard (09:46:50):
Fantastic Danielle Hughes chief personality officer, more than words marketing. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Unknown (09:46:57):
Thank you, Greg. This was great.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.