April 20, 2024 • 37 mins
Meet Brooke Roberts, the dynamic co-founder and co-CEO of Sharesies, who joins us to share her journey from a curious child to a fintech innovator. Her story is a vibrant illustration of breaking the norms with her cofounders and crafting a platform that's reshaping how we approach investing and wealth protection.
Brooke discusses the emotional landscape of helming a startup, from the thrill of innovation to the stark realities of corporate restructuring. She opens up about the delicate balance founders must maintain between fostering personal well-being and pursuing professional growth.
One takeaway here is that sometimes, the most impactful business moves are made when we give ourselves permission to step back and recharge.
You can connect with Brooke via LinkedIn and check out Sharesies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
If there's a will, there's a way, and I always
think that way and I think we'rejust lucky to be alive.
So making the most of that, Ithink, is quite important.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Brooke is the co-founder, co-CEO and director
of Sharesies.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We're a place where you can develop wealth through
investing.
Creating wealth is also havingaccess and opportunities to
develop wealth, but also makingsure you can protect that wealth
too, and so we're starting togo into that space.
Health is such wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, great.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Most important in a lot of ways and I think if
you're well, your business willbe well.
I used to think business waslike an ultra marathon, but now
I look at it more as like aseries of sprints.
There's got to be space forbreast recovery to then go boom,
you know, and sprint fit again.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hey everybody, it's Greg Sheehan.
Welcome to my podcast, whereyou will hear from a range of
guests, including those from thestartup world and those that
have had incredibly interestinglives and some stories to tell.
I would really appreciate it ifyou could hit the follow button
and share this amongst yourfriends, but, as you know, time
is limited, so let's get on withit and hear from our next guest
(01:10):
.
My guest today is BrookeRoberts.
Brooke is the co-founder,co-ceo and director of Sharesies
.
I've known Brooke for a fewyears now and, in fact, I
remember when her and herco-founding team were in the
very earliest stages.
She won't remember this, but wehad a bit of a meeting up in
the back of, I think, te Arawaor somewhere like that, just as
(01:31):
these guys were getting startedand I think they were looking
for directors, and I don't thinkI made the cut, which was good
for Sharesies, because they havedone so so well.
Hey, brooke, welcome to theshow.
It is so cool to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh hey, thank you so much for having us.
Yeah, sorry about thatInteresting start, but I think I
knew you, maybe from zero daystoo, like you're in the
ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, exactly, and look, I think that's probably a
good place to start.
I'd love to understand a littlebit about your origin story Not
so much Shazzy's at this stage,but you Did you grow up always
wanting to be an entrepreneurand getting involved in tech and
being a founder.
What was that early originstory for you?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I always arched to my own drumbeat, that's for sure.
It's so funny the amount ofpeople who have this stereotype
of the type of person I was andI tell them who I really was as
a child and they're're like what?
Like I was on Daily Report as akid, you know I'd had to go
home with my little 3B1 notebookand have a ranking out of one
to five on how well I was thatday, with a comment and you know
(02:34):
from the teacher, and then myparents had to sign it.
Like I was just and it wasn'tthat I was naughty, I just was
super hyperactive that I foundit really hard to kind of sit
still and I found repetitivelearning really boring.
I was like we learned ityesterday next.
So I think I was kind of hardto tame but I always, like,
marched my own drumbeat.
I guess I always kind of liketo try things out and experiment
(02:56):
and I was always intrigued onhow value was created and so,
yeah, started businesses when Iwas young and loved it, learned
heaps and continue to today whatwas fashion avenue?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I saw that on your LinkedIn profile from about 20
years ago aside from a terriblename.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, that in a la mode.
No great great work there,brooke.
I was at school and I saw thisreally interesting opportunity,
actually after a discussion withmy mum but I got a scholarship
to go to this boarding schooland it was in quite a wealthy
area and I was on an academicscholarship there.
Life changed a bit in terms ofbeing naughty, I guess, and I
noticed there was like heaps ofwealth, heaps of women that
(03:39):
really prided themselves ontheir appearance, and there's
all these retailers that youknow had designer clothing and I
was like I wonder if there's away to pull this together.
I started to get insights alittle bit into the community
and how these like retailerswere competitive and stuff.
And so I went to my teacher andI was like, hey, I want to
start a business.
I think running fashion eventsI wanted to be in fashion at
(04:01):
this time could be really cool.
And she's like oh yeah, well,there's this thing called Young
Enterprise.
So I signed up to that, gotsome mates in, we ran these
fashion shows, made sweet profitand learned a bunch too, and
then did it again the next year.
So that was really cool interms of collaborating and
bringing these people that werenaturally competitors together
for a bigger cause and then,yeah, having people on their
(04:24):
fashion journey.
But yeah, that was one randomthing I did.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Young Enterprise.
Big shout out to you guys,because Brooke is not the first
person who I have had on theshow who has basically touted
the Young Enterprise scheme asbeing a key part of their early
founder journey.
So really interesting that evenwhen we're talking to high
school kids around enterpriseand founding companies that they
go on and start companies likeSharesies, which is a really
(04:50):
nice way of kind of segwayingacross to that founding story.
So I know you've told the storya few times so we won't sort of
dwell on those earliest daystoo much.
But what is the starting storyfor Sharesies?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, so there's six of us that co-founded Sharesies.
So there's so many differentstories, in a way of like how
that kind of came to be fromdifferent people's perspectives,
but from mine, I knew I wantedto start a business.
I knew I wanted to be in thefinancial services fintech space
.
I knew there was heaps ofopportunity here and I was
(05:21):
toying with an idea withLeighton, richard and Martin,
who are also co-founders ofSharesies.
And then we got connected withSonia and Ben, who had an idea
too, and we decided, hey, let'scome together.
And their idea was about makinginvesting more accessible and
we could invest $50 over, youknow, at a time.
And Leighton, who was in ourteam, he started an investment
(05:42):
club when he was 17, putting 50bucks away each week with a
bunch of his mates 13 of themand it was like, well, you can,
but it's like, how do we makethat on scale?
How do we make investing moreaccessible with, you know,
millennials spending all theirmoney on smash avocado and
that's why they couldn't getinto houses?
That was what we were told atthe time, you know, seeing if
(06:04):
people wanted to be an investor,if they thought they were, and
how Kiwis ever played into thatand really those conversations
have founded the vision that wehave for Sharesies.
That you know, literally itfeels like we're still on day
one on seven years in we'restill creating that.
You know there's still so muchahead of us to be able to
fulfill the vision that we have.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And we'll get into some of the stories, no doubt
along the way.
But what is Sharesies now Like?
What would you describeSharesies to be for people out
there, because I know it's somuch more than what it was when
you first started.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah Well, when we first started, it was six
investment options, and then weyou know that ballooned out when
we provided access to the NewZealand Stock Exchange and the
Australian Stock Exchange andthe US Exchanges, to over 8,000
options, and really what we arenow is we're a wealth app.
We're a place where you candevelop wealth through investing
.
We've got savings accounts tooUncle Save and then also
(06:57):
KiwiSaver, and we'll be soonoffering protecting your
investment.
So creating wealth is alsohaving, you know, having access
and opportunities to developwealth, but also making sure you
can protect that wealth too,and so we're starting to go into
that space.
So we're really building out afull wealth app.
You can get us in the appstores now.
You know we started just with aweb app that we're really
building out that full wealthapp experience for people.
(07:18):
So people can you know whenthey come to Sharesies, we want
them to be growing wealth andprotecting it too.
And then we also have this otherpart of Sharesies is as we grew
, we started to notice heaps ofareas where, you know, everyday
investors were locked out of ordidn't have the same opportunity
as big institutional investors.
You know that don't get to goand sit in boardrooms and hear
the CEO and the directors speakabout their company and things
(07:40):
like that we're like.
We want to change that.
We want to make sure, you know,that everyday investors or
retail investors get access tothose same opportunities.
So we've started partneringcloser with companies, helping
companies, whether they'relisted or not, helping them
manage their shareholdercommunications and communicating
better with their shareholdersand understanding their
shareholders more, and alsohelping those companies share
(08:03):
the value that they create bygiving their staff shares in the
company and having that as partof, you know, an employee's
remuneration.
So we partner with companies tosupport them and make that a
really great experience too.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And you've just recently made an announcement
that you've partnered withFonterra and to give listeners
who are outside of New Zealand'sbubble a little bit of context,
fonterra is is our large dairycooperative.
Dairy in New Zealand is a bigpart of our export industry
earnings, and is Fonterra a partof what you just sort of
described in that sense, or isthat something a little
different?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's a bit of both actually.
So, yeah, it's fantastic to bepartnered with New Zealand's
largest company.
The interesting thing aboutFonterra is that their
shareholders are the farmers,the dairy farmers, and so now or
soon, in a couple of months,all the dairy farmers in New
Zealand that are part of theFonterra cooperative.
They will be using Sharesies tomanage and view the shares that
(08:57):
they have in Fonterra.
So that's really exciting interms of making sure that they
have, yeah, that bettercommunication and better access
to and more, you know, digitalaccess to being able to manage
their holdings in that company.
But we also do do staff shareschemes and things like that
with Fonterra too.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So it's a super big company and to give people a
sense of size and scale and tothe extent that you feel
comfortable sharing, just takeus through some of the sort of
metrics, like in terms of staffnumbers and things like that, or
things that you're prepared toshare around, how big Sharesies
is.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, so with Sharesies, we currently support
around 20% of the New Zealandstock exchange with Sharesies
Open and Staff Share schemes andwe also support over 500
companies that aren't listed onthe stock exchange across New
Zealand and Australia and interms of number of employees,
it's around probably around20,000 employees across
Australia and New Zealand we'resupporting with managing their
(09:52):
staff shares and the shares thatthey own and the companies that
they work in and create valuein and, yeah, around 650 to
700,000 investors and kind ofstakeholders in that too.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So that's a huge number and that's a really
impressive result.
In seven years you jumpedacross and set up operations in
Australia I think sort of 2020,something like that so you're
operating both sides of theTasman.
Now what have you discoveredabout doing business in
Australia versus doing businessin New Zealand?
In and around financial markets?
What are the key things thatyou find are different or more
(10:28):
challenging or easier that maybeyou didn't necessarily expect?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I think, on the similarities at a really high
level the barriers that we sawhere that were preventing people
from being able to developwealth or grow wealth, and the
barriers that companies had interms of communicating with
their shareholders and sharingthe value with staff.
They are there and they'requite similar.
Even though the economy has afew different levers or
(10:55):
situations, it's in there'sstill quite a lot of similarity,
which is really interesting andwe we find that.
But there are a lot of nuancetoo, which we've learned, and I
think for us, we know it's quiteimportant to be on the ground
so that we have a team there,and when we first set up,
leighton and I moved our familythere and we were locked down in
Australia while we were gettingoff the ground, and next month
Sonia will be moving over therefor a couple of months and then
(11:17):
Leighton and I will.
Being on the ground is reallyimportant, and we've just had a
key change there too, wherewe've just migrated onto our own
Australian financial serviceslicense and this enables us to
do a lot more than what we weredoing when we were operating
under somebody else's, from amarketing perspective and a
bunch of things.
So that's quite exciting to nowgo over there, now that we've
(11:39):
got this license, and make themost of it.
So, yeah, keep learning really.
I mean, as we learn about themarket here in Aotearoa
continuously, we do in Australiatoo.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
It's super interesting, isn't it?
There was an investment bankerwas telling me in Sydney three
or four months back now, andthis really blew me away that
Australia is the third largestand not on a per capita base,
just third largest financialmarket in the world, now behind
number one being the US.
And then he made me guess whonumber two was and I won't put
you on the spot.
But number two blew me out ofthe water.
(12:10):
Apparently it's Lichtenstein,but who knew?
And then Australia is numberthree.
So it's a big market and withwhat you've done in New Zealand,
I'm excited to see what Cheezyscan offer in Australia Now
these days.
You've got an ownership, you'vegot TradeMe on the cap table
and you form that partnershipand I don't want to get you into
trouble with the TradeMe bosses.
But how does that work and whatcould people expect from doing
(12:34):
similar sorts of partnershipswith larger organisations?
Let's say they're running astartup and they get involved
with a larger corporate business.
How does that?
shape up for you guys.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
So, as Jesus has scaled, we've needed capital,
you know, money invested in usso that we could grow, and
that's really important.
And when we early on we knewthat trust is going to be
crucial for us success, you know, for people to we're the place
where the majority of people'swealth will be how do we make
sure that they know that theycan trust us and that we've got
(13:04):
the right systems in place?
And obviously there's a lot interms of being a highly
regulated business and financialservices.
There's great regulation thereand oversight and auditing and
all of that.
But Trade Me, when theyinvested in us, was, and likely
still is, the most loved andtrusted brand in Aotearoa, high
up there.
So having them invest was areal validator in terms of well,
(13:26):
if they've looked into us youknow this is early on they came
in right.
Then that's got to be, there'sgot to be something there in
terms of that credibility sideand also that trust factor kind
of being shared.
So that was really valuable.
I think when you're looking atgoing into, you know, a
strategic partnership orstrategic investor, really being
clear on what you're wantingout of that relationship and
(13:48):
what you're not Like, it wasreally clear for us that they
would be as supportive as needed, but leave us to do our own
thing too.
You know, and that's honestlyhow the relationship has been
they're really supportive.
You know, early on I'd get somuch email templates and all
this stuff that's just sohelpful for us from recruiting
and as we're scaling.
You know, they just had all ofthis stuff that we could lift
(14:10):
and shift and it was fantasticto have that insight.
And then now, you know, just tohave conversations around
business and how things aregoing and get, you know,
leverage their experience isawesome, but really they leave
us to run this ship, which isawesome too.
You know that we're and we haveJohn McDonald, who is an
independent director, on theSharesies board, who was the CEO
(14:31):
at Trade Me for years.
So, yeah, we get to leverage alot of their insights.
As you know, an incredible techstory here in Aotearoa.
So, yeah, it's been a fantasticrelationship to have.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And just for a bit of context for those listening
outside of New Zealand.
So Trade Me is essentially theeBay equivalent here in New
Zealand and, as Brooke perfectlyput it, we call in New Zealand.
We call New Zealand Aotearoa,which is the Maori word for the
country that we live in, whichis pretty cool.
So startups are hard, brooke.
They're really, really tough.
What's the toughest thing thatyou think you've had to endure
(15:05):
in this sharesies journey so farthat you're willing to share?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, I think this one's obvious but also super
difficult, because I'm not themost vulnerable person in the
situation, or the one thatactually is the most impacted,
you know, which is when you getinto that position where you
need to make redundancies andthat was over a year ago there's
a change in the economy.
There was longer lag in termsof things that we thought we'd
(15:29):
be able to deliver or getlicenses for than it took and
that really put an impact on ourbusiness at that time, and so
we needed to restructureSharesies and that was, yeah,
definitely the most difficulttime.
And that's, yeah, a year and ahalf-ish ago now just over a
year.
And, yeah, we've had a massiveturnaround and really want to
make sure that everybody thatwas here that isn't now gets a
(15:51):
lot of that benefit throughbeing a shareholder in time.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it's an interesting one, I think, for
people that have been through arestructuring but they've never
necessarily been the peoplemaking the decisions.
To have to take your headcountout or people that are not
necessarily the ones actuallydoing the work, to, you know,
tell people that they're notgoing to have a role after a
certain time.
I think there's a bit of amisunderstanding as to what it's
(16:15):
like.
It's incredibly tough for thosemaking the decisions and,
obviously, the people that areimpacted directly as well.
And I remember, actually I wasat Nike years ago and we had to
make a ton of people redundantand it was really really tough
and the people making thedecisions and those that were
affecting the change were cryingand, you know, had to do it
privately because they didn'twant the rest of the team to see
(16:37):
it.
So it was really really tough.
So, yeah, thank you for sharingthat, because I think it is
it's hard on everybody andactually testament to you and
the team and the way you handledit, because feedback from those
that did happen to to losetheir role through the
restructuring just speaks sohighly of Sharesies.
So, and that's a testament toyou guys as leaders and the
(16:58):
culture that you've built.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, it was a different.
You know, at that time therewere a lot of everybody got
placed into roles pretty quickly.
I had CEOs calling me up sayinghow can I, you know, take those
people, you know, and we woulddo what we could to make sure
that they, you know, werestreamlined and got straight to
interviews with other companies.
We, you know, did it as much aswe could at that time and some
people are really flourishingnow too, which is cool.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Absolutely and equally.
On the flip side, there's beensome things that you've
experienced in the last sevenyears.
We've made a decision and it'sworked out really really well.
Can you sort of identifysomething that you've done in
the last few years where youthink that was such a good
decision and it's just servedSharesies really really well?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, I think actually when we were doing that
restructure stuff, we weren'tgoing we need to get this
headcount out of whatever, likehow does Sharesies need to be
structured for us to to growfrom here too?
And something that I think adecision we made in terms of how
Sharesies is organized has beenreally, really beneficial, and
that is we now have fourbusinesses within Sharesies.
(18:00):
So you've got Invest and Save,subvention and Funds, australia
and Company Partnerships, andthen they've got the teams and
the resources, I guess, too,that they need in order to make
their businesses hum.
And just the reason why I thinkthat's working so well is
because people now are waycloser to the context.
You know, you've got design,tech, marketing, the team's like
(18:22):
really clear on the contextthat drives that business and
closer to the P&Ls of it too, soreally being able to make
purpose and profit decisions alot closer to the context and
also closer to the customer, andI think that has been really
powerful.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So implementing that type of matrix structure, and
you're somebody who really isand I hate this phrase, but I
can't think of a better oneYou're the poster child for so
many founders.
Yeah, you might not like it,it's that you are held up and
you are esteemed as somebody whois on is on the founder journey
.
You're building an iconiccompany and we all know how
(18:58):
tough that is, and possibly alsofor females as well, and for
women to look at and go hey,look at what brooke's doing.
I want to be like brooke.
Do you feel the pressure ofthat?
Is that something that sitseasily with you?
Or you know how does that feelfor you?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
uh, yeah, it's weird.
I don't think that's like.
I'm like, nah, you nah, youknow, like I mean I look at my
co-founders and I hold them inesteem.
You know there's, you know,sonia and Aidan and Martin and
Richard and all the people wework with, and there's so many
incredible entrepreneurs outthere I've met on my journey
that I learned from, andincredible peers and support.
So so, you know, I'm reallystoked that there is more
(19:35):
founder representation and thatwe are all supporting each other
and, you know, doing as much aswe can to pull down that tool
poppy kind of old schoolmentality.
But I don't ever think that wayof this.
I'm a human, I'm flawed, youknow.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And do people.
So people automatically assumethat you never feel you know
vulnerable, that you never feellike an imposter.
Do you ever feel you knowvulnerable, that you never feel
like an imposter?
Do you ever feel vulnerable?
Do you ever have that sort of2am 3am wake up, not driven by
children, but that just keepsyou awake and you feel kind of
nervous and vulnerable aboutsomething.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I heard this interesting saying and I so
believe it, like an entrepreneuris someone with innate
confidence, with perpetualbelief that they may be wrong,
and that is fascinating to me,like, yeah, or you're like what
you know, like you've got abelief and you're strong and you
have, like, well, theinformation I've got today, this
is the right way, but theremight be information I don't
(20:28):
know.
You know, and I think that islike a really cool way of
thinking in a way too, and I doreally resonate with that
because I think you're able tosee a vision and create a future
and plow that, but also beingreally receptive to the
environment you're in at themoment, new information coming
in and how that needs to pivot,how you approach something or
(20:49):
the speed of it.
So, yeah, that's interestingand I think every founder I've
ever met has is just authentic,typically, and means you know
they.
There's times where everythingis humming and there's times
when it's not.
And, yeah, like I sometimessleep really well and sometimes
I don't.
And often and sometimes thetimes when I don't sleep well,
(21:09):
it's either two-folded one.
There's something that Ihaven't been able to articulate
yet, but it's like a feeling andI'm trying to figure out how to
articulate or what's kind ofwhy you know and if that is
important or if I've got theright information.
And another is when somethingfeels massive and you're like
okay, have I you know?
Have I really thought thisthrough?
(21:30):
Is this the right decision, youknow?
And yeah, I percolate and I'vegot two children too, so my
life's a complete blur in thatregard also.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Exactly, hence the sleep deprivation.
It's interesting that you sortof sense, something, but you
haven't necessarily been able toarticulate in your own mind.
But you just know there'ssomething not quite right.
There's like a gentle hum inthe background.
That's not quite right and, asa founder, your intuition is
leading you to think what is itthat's troubling me?
(22:02):
And therefore go on and kind ofsniff that out.
We talk often as people incommercial worlds about, you
know, strengths and weaknessesand those sorts of things, and I
was actually having adiscussion with somebody on here
the other day about whether youshould work on your weaknesses
or just absolutely you know,screw, that you should double
down on your weaknesses.
Or just absolutely you know,screw, that you should double
down on your strengths.
(22:22):
You're a Kiwi, so I know you'regoing to be sort of naturally a
little bit coy about this, butwhat would you think would be
your key superpower and strength?
That makes a difference to howyou go about doing what you do
at Sharesies.
For those who can't see Brooke,she's really scratching her
head, wondering what that mightbe, which is, I guess, a
testament to it's interesting.
She's certainly not jumpingwith.
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Here's 10 of my key strengths yeah, I don't know
what that, what that says aboutme, but there's a few founders
that get together every Fridayonline and we've done it ever
since, during COVID actually,when we're in lockdowns, and we
get together every Friday anddiscuss things and Claudia Baden
helps run it.
And the last one, which issuper uncomfortable, when you're
in the hot seat there's about10 or so of us on the call.
(23:03):
We went around and talked abouteverybody's superpower, so love
sharing everybody else'ssuperpower.
And it came to me.
I was like sweaty palm, likeI'm just going to either laugh
or cry through this.
You know like it's so awkward,but so I guess I could like
(23:24):
reason, you know, share thetypes of things they were saying
.
Please, one thing I I have alot of energy, and I don't know
why, and I I never knew it wasso unique until everyone keeps
like spitting that back at me.
But I I have a lot of energy andI always have, but, and when
it's channeled in the rightdirection, it can be quite
powerful, I think.
So that's one.
I love thinking slow and fast,okay, I love deep think and I
(23:45):
love fast action too.
So I think that's somethingthat makes me, you know, like an
okay operator and I've I'velearned a lot around the
importance of communication tooand keeping people in the loop
and making sure.
That kind of EQ side of thingsis something I've learned, I'd
say, and that's something thatpeople think I'm pretty good at
too.
I'm quite analytical, but Idon't come across that way
(24:08):
sometimes.
But I, like you know, I studiedfinance.
I just love getting right intothings and I, yeah, I just have
fun, I have just so much funLike there's into things and I,
yeah, I just have fun, I have somuch fun like this.
It's such a privilege to beable to create shares and work
with the people I get to on adaily basis, like I'm just so
lucky and I just love.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
It feels really purpose aligned it's really
interesting because I think if,if the company's success was
some sort of mathematicalalgorithm or calculus and you're
able to look at founder energyas a factor and you've got
strong energy, it's a big factorand then make effective
decisions by using data and yourability to kind of analyze
things you can see why?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
yeah, that's right, it's just simply maths, it's
just maths.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
no, I think I thank you for sharing that, because I
think I think those are reallycool and I think energy is just
absolutely critical for founders.
If they're not feeling it, theyneed to work on what it is
that's draining it and be ableto bring the energy back into
the mix.
What about things that inspireyou, whether they are resources,
things you read, whether it'smusic or going for a you
(25:12):
mentioned going for a surfbefore we jumped on the podcast
what is it that inspires you andthat kind of refills your tank?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
yeah, I've got a six and a four year old and they are
just so fun and inspiring andthe questions they ask me make
me realize I've got so much tolearn still, you know, like
really detailed, interesting,intrinsic questions about the
world around us and I just sothat's really inspiring and and
it's really fun, um, playingwith them and surfing is
(25:40):
something that's new to me since, yeah, like last year I really
got into it and now I'm addicted.
I was out there this morningand you know I'll probably go
out after this because it's agood day.
That's an also an interesting,you know, kind of love, because
it's surfs there sometimes.
Sometimes it's not, you know,and I think you know being able
to make the most of that and Ilove spontaneous, being
(26:01):
spontaneous, so it kind of playsinto that quite well.
I just came back from KurereoPakehi 2024, which was a te reo
kind of immersion a few days,and I'm really inspired by the
people there and the people Iget to connect with and being on
this thrill journey andlearning more about Te Ao Māori.
It is very inspiring and,especially as you think, through
(26:22):
business and the impact of itand, yeah, the people I get to
work with every day, justchallenge my thinking or, yeah,
just really fun to be creatingshizzies with.
So, yeah, there's heaps ofplaces to get inspiration.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I love that, and it's weird that there's so much of a
correlation, a strongcorrelation, between founders
and surfers.
Now, I don't know whether it'sbecause surfing is a complete
antidote, you know, to startuplife, because when you're on the
waves and you're on the water,you can't really think about
much else than the next wave,and you're either going to get
smashed by it or you're going toride it.
(26:53):
So, yeah, it's superinteresting to kind of see that,
and it's super interesting tokind of see that, and it's
beautiful getting out intonature, right, so it's, it's so
cool.
And what about a mantra or aphilosophy?
Is there something that youeither you were taught as a kid
or something that you reallylive by?
That kind of propels you?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm pretty sure my poppy used to say this, but if
he didn't say it, it's the waythat I felt like he lived, which
is like if there's a will,there's a way, and I always
think that way and I think we'rejust lucky to be alive.
So making the most of that, Ithink, is quite important.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, so if there is something and there's something
that needs to be done, you'llfind out how to do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's prettypowerful.
And what would you say you'velearned as you've gone through
this journey over the last sevenyears, and that you would
consider things that certainlywere learnings for you and, no
doubt, as you share them, otherfounders listening will think oh
, that's so cool, it's actuallya really good idea, it's a good
(27:50):
tip.
As a founder, are there keythings that maybe you've kind of
picked up along the way and youimpart to others?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
maybe you've kind of picked up along the way and you
impart to others.
I don't know if this isdemotivating or not, but I think
ever since I quit sportsworking full-time and went, you
know, full into sharesies a fewmonths later I was pregnant and
so I've been raising a familywhile creating sharesies the
last, you know, six, seven years.
And I think I learned at a point, especially maybe after my
(28:18):
second child too.
Actually, the first was Iactually to lower my
expectations on myself and on,sometimes, others around me,
like in a healthy way, you know,like not too much, like I think
the standard you walk past isstandard you accept still.
So I think that's reallyimportant, but like, does it
really matter?
And then that helped me kind ofprioritize and feel more
(28:39):
spacious in time, in a way whereyou know it doesn't really
matter if I don't reply to anemail in a certain amount of
time, you know, but it doesmatter that I'm like responsive
and slack to our team.
You know I don't want to beholding things up with them.
So I think, and it doesn'treally matter if I spend a
couple of hours on it in themorning just playing with my
children, but it does matterthat I deliver, and if I say I'm
(29:02):
going to do something, I do it.
You know, and I think it's justlike the fluidity in that and
you know, again back to the joy,like really doing this too so
that we can have a joyful lifeand, can you know, have times
for things.
And, yes, there'll be timeswhere you're sprinting and
things are all tricky and you'relike, but you look back and
that's where your biggestlearnings and the coolest
stories some ways come out ofthose really challenging times.
(29:24):
So, yeah, being able to ridethe waves and set healthy
prioritizations, loweringexpectations, can sometimes be
part of that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because I think a
lot of founders sometimes feelguilty if they're not fully
present in their startup andthey're let's say, they are out
for a surf, or they're out for arun, or they're walking, or
they're just taking some timeout to spend time with their
kids or whatever and they feel alittle bit guilty.
They know they need to beputting some fuel back in their
own tanks, but they feel guiltythat they're not working on the
(29:54):
business because it might be aThursday afternoon at 3 o'clock
or something like that.
Yet the reality is, the bestthing a founder can do is to
make really good decisions, andit's those decisions that only
come along once every month orso or every couple of months or
even every year, those reallybig decisions that, when they're
made well, they make a hugedifference on the business.
(30:16):
And to make them well, thefounders need to be free, to be
able to think, to be able topercolate on something, to
ruminate, to dream.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So it's sort of super interesting that we put
pressure on ourselves asfounders to keep working when,
in actual fact, actually makingthe best decisions sometimes
comes down to getting our headout of the game and going for a
surf, or going for a run orwhatever and we're making health
is such well, yeah, yeah, mostimportant a lot of ways and I
think if you're well, you knowyour business will be well, and
(30:47):
I think that I used to thinkbusiness was like an ultra
marathon, but now I look at itmore as like a series of sprints
.
There's got to be space forrest, recovery, get that, you
know, to then go boom and be,you know, sprint, fit again.
So I think incorporating thatinto your habits and honestly I
wasn't that good at it at thestart, especially with young
(31:09):
kids and the opportunity cost oftime not spent with them felt
hectic and hard.
But ever since last year, I putin really good practices around
exercise and, yeah, I makebetter decisions.
I feel more space than time,somehow, you know, and I'm
probably operating a lot better.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Now, I know you have covered this off in other
interviews, other podcasts, etcetera, but there will be people
who haven't heard the story.
So you co-share the CEO roleand that is, I think, my
understanding.
You co-share it with two others, so there's three of you that
share that role, three EOs thethree EOs which I'd never seen
until I was doing research.
So it's actually pretty coolTips for others that are
(31:48):
thinking about this.
Is it, you know?
Is it something that you'deasily do again?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
It's super weird when you start up and if one of you,
you know you've got multiplefounders and one of you is a CEO
and you notice the kind ofopportunities that come to them
or people who expect them to bein a room for the decisions, and
things like that, and that it'sjust this like weird societal
structure kind of put on that,where actually you're all in
there doing the same amount ofwork, working really hard, you
(32:17):
know, and so there's somethingkind of weird, and we've
experienced both at she's Earsand I really love that 3EO model
because it means that Leighton,sonia and I like we're
interchangeable in some ways,which is great.
You know, if there's a mediaopportunity or if there's
speaking opportunity or ifthere's you know somebody who
needs something at Sharesies,pick one of us and you've got
what you need, and then we canhave lighter shoulders, we can
(32:38):
share the load.
You know, like I've got theseshared consciousness to talk
about Sharesies and our strategyand where we're going and the
problems Like it's not all on myshoulders or all on theirs,
like we've got that amongstourselves, but also the wider
other founders too, and thatreally enables you to be set up
for the series of sprints and bein it for the long haul too.
So I think you'll know if it'llwork for you and your startup
(33:01):
and if anybody wants to chatabout it with me.
You know, happy as heavy yarn,but for us, we implemented it as
a trial for six months.
It worked really well and we'vebeen doing it for three and a
half years now and, yeah, I loveit.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And what about being married to one of your co-CEOs?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
as well.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
You probably at times feel like you're married to
Sonia as well, but I actuallyhad James Fuller on the show
sometime back now and he wassaying obviously his wife is the
COO at Henry and he said Ican't imagine doing it any other
way.
Like, start-ups are so hardthat to be able to go home and
share the burdens with somebodywho's got contextual knowledge
(33:41):
of exactly what you're talkingabout is the superpower.
How do you view that?
Is it easy?
Are you able to switch off,switch on, et cetera?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's the exact same, like it's what he said.
I was like I can't, even Ican't.
I don't know how it would haveworked if we both weren't in it.
You know Like it would havebeen quite it'd be harder.
I would have thought, like thatshared understanding, you know,
helps us even with the careside of things, like, yep, cool,
you need to be there for that,I'll get the kids or I need to
be here.
You know, like being able tokind of share that and
(34:10):
understand what's more importantis really helpful.
Yeah, and that ability to havethat shared consciousness on
things is really great too.
And, you know, challenge eachother's thinking and I guess
you're pretty, you know you canbe pretty frank with each other,
which is also great, you know,like just straight up feedback.
We kind of both love that, soit's quite helpful.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, and, as I said before, you've done a lot of
media and you and you speak atevents constantly, but is there
a question that you haven't beenasked that you would?
You would love it if somebodywould ask you that question or
something that you would want toshare if asked.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I just think, like when you said something that
founders might want to know islike sometimes, when you're
starting a company, you feellike you're starting from square
one, like you're creating itall, like you know like
templates and where to go, andoh, you know, like just reach
out to other founders honestly,like they will help you straight
away or, you know, can helpwith the basic templates or
(35:07):
whatever you know, like youdon't have to go it alone, like
there's definitely awesomesupport out there, and I think
it's really important, if youdon't have co-founders either,
to build a bit of a supportnetwork, because it takes a lot
of grit and resilience.
You'll be doing really hardwork and so having that support
around you is really reallycrucial and, honestly, none of
us, I don't think, could do whatwe're doing without really
(35:31):
strong support.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, I thank you for saying that, because I often
say that doing a startup is thehardest part of the commercial
world.
You know, it's like a differentsport from standard commerce,
like it's really, really, reallychallenging and in fact, it's
really hard.
So if anybody is consideringdoing a startup, really think
about this, because fact it'sreally hard.
So if anybody is consideringdoing a startup, really think
about this, because it's goingto be the toughest thing you'll
(35:52):
probably ever do.
So you obviously do catch up alot with other founders.
You've got this group on aFriday, do dinners and things
like that.
Do you find hanging out withfounders fills your bucket or do
you get drained by it becausepeople have got other, you know
other problems that they wantshared, I mean.
But net-net, it's a win for you.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh, I think, yeah, I think it's fantastic, kind of
normalises situations.
We can support each other.
It's great, I think you know,anyway, even if you're working
in a company, having peersupport is really important.
Like I was speaking to thislarge company recently and it
was like light bulbs for them,like, oh, I don't have to have
all the answers, I could justask other people here.
I was like, of course you can.
Like, you know, nobody expectsyou to have all the answers and
(36:34):
there's this weird pressure Ithink we put on ourselves of
being perfect or something.
It's like actually perfect isgetting it like done is better
than perfect, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So, yeah, just no, it's very it's, it's super,
super.
Brooke, I will put connectionlinks to you and Sharesies in
the show notes so that if peopledo want to reach out to you or
find out a little bit more aboutSharesies, they can do so.
I really, really want to thankyou not only for the time you've
given today, but just also therole that you play in the
(37:02):
ecosystem at Aotearoa justaround, the role you play for
founders in general femalefounders, those people who are
just starting out and alsoproviding a bit of inspiration
and impetus for those that haveactually been doing it for a
while.
So you play a really key rolethere and you're super humble,
you're super nice and kind, butyou're just crazy smart.
(37:23):
So well done to you and thebroader Sharesies team for
everything you do, and I'm soexcited to see where you guys go
in the coming years.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Thanks so much.
Appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, so really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, Brooke.
If there's a will, there's a way, and I always
think that way and I think we'rejust lucky to be alive.
So making the most of that, Ithink, is quite important.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Brooke is the co-founder, co-CEO and director
of Sharesies.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We're a place where you can develop wealth through
investing.
Creating wealth is also havingaccess and opportunities to
develop wealth, but also makingsure you can protect that wealth
too, and so we're starting togo into that space.
Health is such wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, great.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Most important in a lot of ways and I think if
you're well, your business willbe well.
I used to think business waslike an ultra marathon, but now
I look at it more as like aseries of sprints.
There's got to be space forbreast recovery to then go boom,
you know, and sprint fit again.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hey everybody, it's Greg Sheehan.
Welcome to my podcast, whereyou will hear from a range of
guests, including those from thestartup world and those that
have had incredibly interestinglives and some stories to tell.
I would really appreciate it ifyou could hit the follow button
and share this amongst yourfriends, but, as you know, time
is limited, so let's get on withit and hear from our next guest
(01:10):
.
My guest today is BrookeRoberts.
Brooke is the co-founder,co-ceo and director of Sharesies
.
I've known Brooke for a fewyears now and, in fact, I
remember when her and herco-founding team were in the
very earliest stages.
She won't remember this, but wehad a bit of a meeting up in
the back of, I think, te Arawaor somewhere like that, just as
(01:31):
these guys were getting startedand I think they were looking
for directors, and I don't thinkI made the cut, which was good
for Sharesies, because they havedone so so well.
Hey, brooke, welcome to theshow.
It is so cool to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh hey, thank you so much for having us.
Yeah, sorry about thatInteresting start, but I think I
knew you, maybe from zero daystoo, like you're in the
ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, exactly, and look, I think that's probably a
good place to start.
I'd love to understand a littlebit about your origin story Not
so much Shazzy's at this stage,but you Did you grow up always
wanting to be an entrepreneurand getting involved in tech and
being a founder.
What was that early originstory for you?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I always arched to my own drumbeat, that's for sure.
It's so funny the amount ofpeople who have this stereotype
of the type of person I was andI tell them who I really was as
a child and they're're like what?
Like I was on Daily Report as akid, you know I'd had to go
home with my little 3B1 notebookand have a ranking out of one
to five on how well I was thatday, with a comment and you know
(02:34):
from the teacher, and then myparents had to sign it.
Like I was just and it wasn'tthat I was naughty, I just was
super hyperactive that I foundit really hard to kind of sit
still and I found repetitivelearning really boring.
I was like we learned ityesterday next.
So I think I was kind of hardto tame but I always, like,
marched my own drumbeat.
I guess I always kind of liketo try things out and experiment
(02:56):
and I was always intrigued onhow value was created and so,
yeah, started businesses when Iwas young and loved it, learned
heaps and continue to today whatwas fashion avenue?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I saw that on your LinkedIn profile from about 20
years ago aside from a terriblename.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, that in a la mode.
No great great work there,brooke.
I was at school and I saw thisreally interesting opportunity,
actually after a discussion withmy mum but I got a scholarship
to go to this boarding schooland it was in quite a wealthy
area and I was on an academicscholarship there.
Life changed a bit in terms ofbeing naughty, I guess, and I
noticed there was like heaps ofwealth, heaps of women that
(03:39):
really prided themselves ontheir appearance, and there's
all these retailers that youknow had designer clothing and I
was like I wonder if there's away to pull this together.
I started to get insights alittle bit into the community
and how these like retailerswere competitive and stuff.
And so I went to my teacher andI was like, hey, I want to
start a business.
I think running fashion eventsI wanted to be in fashion at
(04:01):
this time could be really cool.
And she's like oh yeah, well,there's this thing called Young
Enterprise.
So I signed up to that, gotsome mates in, we ran these
fashion shows, made sweet profitand learned a bunch too, and
then did it again the next year.
So that was really cool interms of collaborating and
bringing these people that werenaturally competitors together
for a bigger cause and then,yeah, having people on their
(04:24):
fashion journey.
But yeah, that was one randomthing I did.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Young Enterprise.
Big shout out to you guys,because Brooke is not the first
person who I have had on theshow who has basically touted
the Young Enterprise scheme asbeing a key part of their early
founder journey.
So really interesting that evenwhen we're talking to high
school kids around enterpriseand founding companies that they
go on and start companies likeSharesies, which is a really
(04:50):
nice way of kind of segwayingacross to that founding story.
So I know you've told the storya few times so we won't sort of
dwell on those earliest daystoo much.
But what is the starting storyfor Sharesies?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, so there's six of us that co-founded Sharesies.
So there's so many differentstories, in a way of like how
that kind of came to be fromdifferent people's perspectives,
but from mine, I knew I wantedto start a business.
I knew I wanted to be in thefinancial services fintech space
.
I knew there was heaps ofopportunity here and I was
(05:21):
toying with an idea withLeighton, richard and Martin,
who are also co-founders ofSharesies.
And then we got connected withSonia and Ben, who had an idea
too, and we decided, hey, let'scome together.
And their idea was about makinginvesting more accessible and
we could invest $50 over, youknow, at a time.
And Leighton, who was in ourteam, he started an investment
(05:42):
club when he was 17, putting 50bucks away each week with a
bunch of his mates 13 of themand it was like, well, you can,
but it's like, how do we makethat on scale?
How do we make investing moreaccessible with, you know,
millennials spending all theirmoney on smash avocado and
that's why they couldn't getinto houses?
That was what we were told atthe time, you know, seeing if
(06:04):
people wanted to be an investor,if they thought they were, and
how Kiwis ever played into thatand really those conversations
have founded the vision that wehave for Sharesies.
That you know, literally itfeels like we're still on day
one on seven years in we'restill creating that.
You know there's still so muchahead of us to be able to
fulfill the vision that we have.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And we'll get into some of the stories, no doubt
along the way.
But what is Sharesies now Like?
What would you describeSharesies to be for people out
there, because I know it's somuch more than what it was when
you first started.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah Well, when we first started, it was six
investment options, and then weyou know that ballooned out when
we provided access to the NewZealand Stock Exchange and the
Australian Stock Exchange andthe US Exchanges, to over 8,000
options, and really what we arenow is we're a wealth app.
We're a place where you candevelop wealth through investing
.
We've got savings accounts tooUncle Save and then also
(06:57):
KiwiSaver, and we'll be soonoffering protecting your
investment.
So creating wealth is alsohaving, you know, having access
and opportunities to developwealth, but also making sure you
can protect that wealth too,and so we're starting to go into
that space.
So we're really building out afull wealth app.
You can get us in the appstores now.
You know we started just with aweb app that we're really
building out that full wealthapp experience for people.
(07:18):
So people can you know whenthey come to Sharesies, we want
them to be growing wealth andprotecting it too.
And then we also have this otherpart of Sharesies is as we grew
, we started to notice heaps ofareas where, you know, everyday
investors were locked out of ordidn't have the same opportunity
as big institutional investors.
You know that don't get to goand sit in boardrooms and hear
the CEO and the directors speakabout their company and things
(07:40):
like that we're like.
We want to change that.
We want to make sure, you know,that everyday investors or
retail investors get access tothose same opportunities.
So we've started partneringcloser with companies, helping
companies, whether they'relisted or not, helping them
manage their shareholdercommunications and communicating
better with their shareholdersand understanding their
shareholders more, and alsohelping those companies share
(08:03):
the value that they create bygiving their staff shares in the
company and having that as partof, you know, an employee's
remuneration.
So we partner with companies tosupport them and make that a
really great experience too.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And you've just recently made an announcement
that you've partnered withFonterra and to give listeners
who are outside of New Zealand'sbubble a little bit of context,
fonterra is is our large dairycooperative.
Dairy in New Zealand is a bigpart of our export industry
earnings, and is Fonterra a partof what you just sort of
described in that sense, or isthat something a little
different?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's a bit of both actually.
So, yeah, it's fantastic to bepartnered with New Zealand's
largest company.
The interesting thing aboutFonterra is that their
shareholders are the farmers,the dairy farmers, and so now or
soon, in a couple of months,all the dairy farmers in New
Zealand that are part of theFonterra cooperative.
They will be using Sharesies tomanage and view the shares that
(08:57):
they have in Fonterra.
So that's really exciting interms of making sure that they
have, yeah, that bettercommunication and better access
to and more, you know, digitalaccess to being able to manage
their holdings in that company.
But we also do do staff shareschemes and things like that
with Fonterra too.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So it's a super big company and to give people a
sense of size and scale and tothe extent that you feel
comfortable sharing, just takeus through some of the sort of
metrics, like in terms of staffnumbers and things like that, or
things that you're prepared toshare around, how big Sharesies
is.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, so with Sharesies, we currently support
around 20% of the New Zealandstock exchange with Sharesies
Open and Staff Share schemes andwe also support over 500
companies that aren't listed onthe stock exchange across New
Zealand and Australia and interms of number of employees,
it's around probably around20,000 employees across
Australia and New Zealand we'resupporting with managing their
(09:52):
staff shares and the shares thatthey own and the companies that
they work in and create valuein and, yeah, around 650 to
700,000 investors and kind ofstakeholders in that too.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So that's a huge number and that's a really
impressive result.
In seven years you jumpedacross and set up operations in
Australia I think sort of 2020,something like that so you're
operating both sides of theTasman.
Now what have you discoveredabout doing business in
Australia versus doing businessin New Zealand?
In and around financial markets?
What are the key things thatyou find are different or more
(10:28):
challenging or easier that maybeyou didn't necessarily expect?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I think, on the similarities at a really high
level the barriers that we sawhere that were preventing people
from being able to developwealth or grow wealth, and the
barriers that companies had interms of communicating with
their shareholders and sharingthe value with staff.
They are there and they'requite similar.
Even though the economy has afew different levers or
(10:55):
situations, it's in there'sstill quite a lot of similarity,
which is really interesting andwe we find that.
But there are a lot of nuancetoo, which we've learned, and I
think for us, we know it's quiteimportant to be on the ground
so that we have a team there,and when we first set up,
leighton and I moved our familythere and we were locked down in
Australia while we were gettingoff the ground, and next month
Sonia will be moving over therefor a couple of months and then
(11:17):
Leighton and I will.
Being on the ground is reallyimportant, and we've just had a
key change there too, wherewe've just migrated onto our own
Australian financial serviceslicense and this enables us to
do a lot more than what we weredoing when we were operating
under somebody else's, from amarketing perspective and a
bunch of things.
So that's quite exciting to nowgo over there, now that we've
(11:39):
got this license, and make themost of it.
So, yeah, keep learning really.
I mean, as we learn about themarket here in Aotearoa
continuously, we do in Australiatoo.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
It's super interesting, isn't it?
There was an investment bankerwas telling me in Sydney three
or four months back now, andthis really blew me away that
Australia is the third largestand not on a per capita base,
just third largest financialmarket in the world, now behind
number one being the US.
And then he made me guess whonumber two was and I won't put
you on the spot.
But number two blew me out ofthe water.
(12:10):
Apparently it's Lichtenstein,but who knew?
And then Australia is numberthree.
So it's a big market and withwhat you've done in New Zealand,
I'm excited to see what Cheezyscan offer in Australia Now
these days.
You've got an ownership, you'vegot TradeMe on the cap table
and you form that partnershipand I don't want to get you into
trouble with the TradeMe bosses.
But how does that work and whatcould people expect from doing
(12:34):
similar sorts of partnershipswith larger organisations?
Let's say they're running astartup and they get involved
with a larger corporate business.
How does that?
shape up for you guys.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
So, as Jesus has scaled, we've needed capital,
you know, money invested in usso that we could grow, and
that's really important.
And when we early on we knewthat trust is going to be
crucial for us success, you know, for people to we're the place
where the majority of people'swealth will be how do we make
sure that they know that theycan trust us and that we've got
(13:04):
the right systems in place?
And obviously there's a lot interms of being a highly
regulated business and financialservices.
There's great regulation thereand oversight and auditing and
all of that.
But Trade Me, when theyinvested in us, was, and likely
still is, the most loved andtrusted brand in Aotearoa, high
up there.
So having them invest was areal validator in terms of well,
(13:26):
if they've looked into us youknow this is early on they came
in right.
Then that's got to be, there'sgot to be something there in
terms of that credibility sideand also that trust factor kind
of being shared.
So that was really valuable.
I think when you're looking atgoing into, you know, a
strategic partnership orstrategic investor, really being
clear on what you're wantingout of that relationship and
(13:48):
what you're not Like, it wasreally clear for us that they
would be as supportive as needed, but leave us to do our own
thing too.
You know, and that's honestlyhow the relationship has been
they're really supportive.
You know, early on I'd get somuch email templates and all
this stuff that's just sohelpful for us from recruiting
and as we're scaling.
You know, they just had all ofthis stuff that we could lift
(14:10):
and shift and it was fantasticto have that insight.
And then now, you know, just tohave conversations around
business and how things aregoing and get, you know,
leverage their experience isawesome, but really they leave
us to run this ship, which isawesome too.
You know that we're and we haveJohn McDonald, who is an
independent director, on theSharesies board, who was the CEO
(14:31):
at Trade Me for years.
So, yeah, we get to leverage alot of their insights.
As you know, an incredible techstory here in Aotearoa.
So, yeah, it's been a fantasticrelationship to have.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And just for a bit of context for those listening
outside of New Zealand.
So Trade Me is essentially theeBay equivalent here in New
Zealand and, as Brooke perfectlyput it, we call in New Zealand.
We call New Zealand Aotearoa,which is the Maori word for the
country that we live in, whichis pretty cool.
So startups are hard, brooke.
They're really, really tough.
What's the toughest thing thatyou think you've had to endure
(15:05):
in this sharesies journey so farthat you're willing to share?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, I think this one's obvious but also super
difficult, because I'm not themost vulnerable person in the
situation, or the one thatactually is the most impacted,
you know, which is when you getinto that position where you
need to make redundancies andthat was over a year ago there's
a change in the economy.
There was longer lag in termsof things that we thought we'd
(15:29):
be able to deliver or getlicenses for than it took and
that really put an impact on ourbusiness at that time, and so
we needed to restructureSharesies and that was, yeah,
definitely the most difficulttime.
And that's, yeah, a year and ahalf-ish ago now just over a
year.
And, yeah, we've had a massiveturnaround and really want to
make sure that everybody thatwas here that isn't now gets a
(15:51):
lot of that benefit throughbeing a shareholder in time.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it's an interesting one, I think, for
people that have been through arestructuring but they've never
necessarily been the peoplemaking the decisions.
To have to take your headcountout or people that are not
necessarily the ones actuallydoing the work, to, you know,
tell people that they're notgoing to have a role after a
certain time.
I think there's a bit of amisunderstanding as to what it's
(16:15):
like.
It's incredibly tough for thosemaking the decisions and,
obviously, the people that areimpacted directly as well.
And I remember, actually I wasat Nike years ago and we had to
make a ton of people redundantand it was really really tough
and the people making thedecisions and those that were
affecting the change were cryingand, you know, had to do it
privately because they didn'twant the rest of the team to see
(16:37):
it.
So it was really really tough.
So, yeah, thank you for sharingthat, because I think it is
it's hard on everybody andactually testament to you and
the team and the way you handledit, because feedback from those
that did happen to to losetheir role through the
restructuring just speaks sohighly of Sharesies.
So, and that's a testament toyou guys as leaders and the
(16:58):
culture that you've built.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, it was a different.
You know, at that time therewere a lot of everybody got
placed into roles pretty quickly.
I had CEOs calling me up sayinghow can I, you know, take those
people, you know, and we woulddo what we could to make sure
that they, you know, werestreamlined and got straight to
interviews with other companies.
We, you know, did it as much aswe could at that time and some
people are really flourishingnow too, which is cool.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Absolutely and equally.
On the flip side, there's beensome things that you've
experienced in the last sevenyears.
We've made a decision and it'sworked out really really well.
Can you sort of identifysomething that you've done in
the last few years where youthink that was such a good
decision and it's just servedSharesies really really well?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, I think actually when we were doing that
restructure stuff, we weren'tgoing we need to get this
headcount out of whatever, likehow does Sharesies need to be
structured for us to to growfrom here too?
And something that I think adecision we made in terms of how
Sharesies is organized has beenreally, really beneficial, and
that is we now have fourbusinesses within Sharesies.
(18:00):
So you've got Invest and Save,subvention and Funds, australia
and Company Partnerships, andthen they've got the teams and
the resources, I guess, too,that they need in order to make
their businesses hum.
And just the reason why I thinkthat's working so well is
because people now are waycloser to the context.
You know, you've got design,tech, marketing, the team's like
(18:22):
really clear on the contextthat drives that business and
closer to the P&Ls of it too, soreally being able to make
purpose and profit decisions alot closer to the context and
also closer to the customer, andI think that has been really
powerful.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So implementing that type of matrix structure, and
you're somebody who really isand I hate this phrase, but I
can't think of a better oneYou're the poster child for so
many founders.
Yeah, you might not like it,it's that you are held up and
you are esteemed as somebody whois on is on the founder journey
.
You're building an iconiccompany and we all know how
(18:58):
tough that is, and possibly alsofor females as well, and for
women to look at and go hey,look at what brooke's doing.
I want to be like brooke.
Do you feel the pressure ofthat?
Is that something that sitseasily with you?
Or you know how does that feelfor you?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
uh, yeah, it's weird.
I don't think that's like.
I'm like, nah, you nah, youknow, like I mean I look at my
co-founders and I hold them inesteem.
You know there's, you know,sonia and Aidan and Martin and
Richard and all the people wework with, and there's so many
incredible entrepreneurs outthere I've met on my journey
that I learned from, andincredible peers and support.
So so, you know, I'm reallystoked that there is more
(19:35):
founder representation and thatwe are all supporting each other
and, you know, doing as much aswe can to pull down that tool
poppy kind of old schoolmentality.
But I don't ever think that wayof this.
I'm a human, I'm flawed, youknow.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And do people.
So people automatically assumethat you never feel you know
vulnerable, that you never feellike an imposter.
Do you ever feel you knowvulnerable, that you never feel
like an imposter?
Do you ever feel vulnerable?
Do you ever have that sort of2am 3am wake up, not driven by
children, but that just keepsyou awake and you feel kind of
nervous and vulnerable aboutsomething.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I heard this interesting saying and I so
believe it, like an entrepreneuris someone with innate
confidence, with perpetualbelief that they may be wrong,
and that is fascinating to me,like, yeah, or you're like what
you know, like you've got abelief and you're strong and you
have, like, well, theinformation I've got today, this
is the right way, but theremight be information I don't
(20:28):
know.
You know, and I think that islike a really cool way of
thinking in a way too, and I doreally resonate with that
because I think you're able tosee a vision and create a future
and plow that, but also beingreally receptive to the
environment you're in at themoment, new information coming
in and how that needs to pivot,how you approach something or
(20:49):
the speed of it.
So, yeah, that's interestingand I think every founder I've
ever met has is just authentic,typically, and means you know
they.
There's times where everythingis humming and there's times
when it's not.
And, yeah, like I sometimessleep really well and sometimes
I don't.
And often and sometimes thetimes when I don't sleep well,
(21:09):
it's either two-folded one.
There's something that Ihaven't been able to articulate
yet, but it's like a feeling andI'm trying to figure out how to
articulate or what's kind ofwhy you know and if that is
important or if I've got theright information.
And another is when somethingfeels massive and you're like
okay, have I you know?
Have I really thought thisthrough?
(21:30):
Is this the right decision, youknow?
And yeah, I percolate and I'vegot two children too, so my
life's a complete blur in thatregard also.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Exactly, hence the sleep deprivation.
It's interesting that you sortof sense, something, but you
haven't necessarily been able toarticulate in your own mind.
But you just know there'ssomething not quite right.
There's like a gentle hum inthe background.
That's not quite right and, asa founder, your intuition is
leading you to think what is itthat's troubling me?
(22:02):
And therefore go on and kind ofsniff that out.
We talk often as people incommercial worlds about, you
know, strengths and weaknessesand those sorts of things, and I
was actually having adiscussion with somebody on here
the other day about whether youshould work on your weaknesses
or just absolutely you know,screw, that you should double
down on your weaknesses.
Or just absolutely you know,screw, that you should double
down on your strengths.
(22:22):
You're a Kiwi, so I know you'regoing to be sort of naturally a
little bit coy about this, butwhat would you think would be
your key superpower and strength?
That makes a difference to howyou go about doing what you do
at Sharesies.
For those who can't see Brooke,she's really scratching her
head, wondering what that mightbe, which is, I guess, a
testament to it's interesting.
She's certainly not jumpingwith.
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Here's 10 of my key strengths yeah, I don't know
what that, what that says aboutme, but there's a few founders
that get together every Fridayonline and we've done it ever
since, during COVID actually,when we're in lockdowns, and we
get together every Friday anddiscuss things and Claudia Baden
helps run it.
And the last one, which issuper uncomfortable, when you're
in the hot seat there's about10 or so of us on the call.
(23:03):
We went around and talked abouteverybody's superpower, so love
sharing everybody else'ssuperpower.
And it came to me.
I was like sweaty palm, likeI'm just going to either laugh
or cry through this.
You know like it's so awkward,but so I guess I could like
(23:24):
reason, you know, share thetypes of things they were saying
.
Please, one thing I I have alot of energy, and I don't know
why, and I I never knew it wasso unique until everyone keeps
like spitting that back at me.
But I I have a lot of energy andI always have, but, and when
it's channeled in the rightdirection, it can be quite
powerful, I think.
So that's one.
I love thinking slow and fast,okay, I love deep think and I
(23:45):
love fast action too.
So I think that's somethingthat makes me, you know, like an
okay operator and I've I'velearned a lot around the
importance of communication tooand keeping people in the loop
and making sure.
That kind of EQ side of thingsis something I've learned, I'd
say, and that's something thatpeople think I'm pretty good at
too.
I'm quite analytical, but Idon't come across that way
(24:08):
sometimes.
But I, like you know, I studiedfinance.
I just love getting right intothings and I, yeah, I just have
fun, I have just so much funLike there's into things and I,
yeah, I just have fun, I have somuch fun like this.
It's such a privilege to beable to create shares and work
with the people I get to on adaily basis, like I'm just so
lucky and I just love.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
It feels really purpose aligned it's really
interesting because I think if,if the company's success was
some sort of mathematicalalgorithm or calculus and you're
able to look at founder energyas a factor and you've got
strong energy, it's a big factorand then make effective
decisions by using data and yourability to kind of analyze
things you can see why?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
yeah, that's right, it's just simply maths, it's
just maths.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
no, I think I thank you for sharing that, because I
think I think those are reallycool and I think energy is just
absolutely critical for founders.
If they're not feeling it, theyneed to work on what it is
that's draining it and be ableto bring the energy back into
the mix.
What about things that inspireyou, whether they are resources,
things you read, whether it'smusic or going for a you
(25:12):
mentioned going for a surfbefore we jumped on the podcast
what is it that inspires you andthat kind of refills your tank?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
yeah, I've got a six and a four year old and they are
just so fun and inspiring andthe questions they ask me make
me realize I've got so much tolearn still, you know, like
really detailed, interesting,intrinsic questions about the
world around us and I just sothat's really inspiring and and
it's really fun, um, playingwith them and surfing is
(25:40):
something that's new to me since, yeah, like last year I really
got into it and now I'm addicted.
I was out there this morningand you know I'll probably go
out after this because it's agood day.
That's an also an interesting,you know, kind of love, because
it's surfs there sometimes.
Sometimes it's not, you know,and I think you know being able
to make the most of that and Ilove spontaneous, being
(26:01):
spontaneous, so it kind of playsinto that quite well.
I just came back from KurereoPakehi 2024, which was a te reo
kind of immersion a few days,and I'm really inspired by the
people there and the people Iget to connect with and being on
this thrill journey andlearning more about Te Ao Māori.
It is very inspiring and,especially as you think, through
(26:22):
business and the impact of itand, yeah, the people I get to
work with every day, justchallenge my thinking or, yeah,
just really fun to be creatingshizzies with.
So, yeah, there's heaps ofplaces to get inspiration.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I love that, and it's weird that there's so much of a
correlation, a strongcorrelation, between founders
and surfers.
Now, I don't know whether it'sbecause surfing is a complete
antidote, you know, to startuplife, because when you're on the
waves and you're on the water,you can't really think about
much else than the next wave,and you're either going to get
smashed by it or you're going toride it.
(26:53):
So, yeah, it's superinteresting to kind of see that,
and it's super interesting tokind of see that, and it's
beautiful getting out intonature, right, so it's, it's so
cool.
And what about a mantra or aphilosophy?
Is there something that youeither you were taught as a kid
or something that you reallylive by?
That kind of propels you?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm pretty sure my poppy used to say this, but if
he didn't say it, it's the waythat I felt like he lived, which
is like if there's a will,there's a way, and I always
think that way and I think we'rejust lucky to be alive.
So making the most of that, Ithink, is quite important.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, so if there is something and there's something
that needs to be done, you'llfind out how to do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's prettypowerful.
And what would you say you'velearned as you've gone through
this journey over the last sevenyears, and that you would
consider things that certainlywere learnings for you and, no
doubt, as you share them, otherfounders listening will think oh
, that's so cool, it's actuallya really good idea, it's a good
(27:50):
tip.
As a founder, are there keythings that maybe you've kind of
picked up along the way and youimpart to others?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
maybe you've kind of picked up along the way and you
impart to others.
I don't know if this isdemotivating or not, but I think
ever since I quit sportsworking full-time and went, you
know, full into sharesies a fewmonths later I was pregnant and
so I've been raising a familywhile creating sharesies the
last, you know, six, seven years.
And I think I learned at a point, especially maybe after my
(28:18):
second child too.
Actually, the first was Iactually to lower my
expectations on myself and on,sometimes, others around me,
like in a healthy way, you know,like not too much, like I think
the standard you walk past isstandard you accept still.
So I think that's reallyimportant, but like, does it
really matter?
And then that helped me kind ofprioritize and feel more
(28:39):
spacious in time, in a way whereyou know it doesn't really
matter if I don't reply to anemail in a certain amount of
time, you know, but it doesmatter that I'm like responsive
and slack to our team.
You know I don't want to beholding things up with them.
So I think, and it doesn'treally matter if I spend a
couple of hours on it in themorning just playing with my
children, but it does matterthat I deliver, and if I say I'm
(29:02):
going to do something, I do it.
You know, and I think it's justlike the fluidity in that and
you know, again back to the joy,like really doing this too so
that we can have a joyful lifeand, can you know, have times
for things.
And, yes, there'll be timeswhere you're sprinting and
things are all tricky and you'relike, but you look back and
that's where your biggestlearnings and the coolest
stories some ways come out ofthose really challenging times.
(29:24):
So, yeah, being able to ridethe waves and set healthy
prioritizations, loweringexpectations, can sometimes be
part of that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because I think a
lot of founders sometimes feelguilty if they're not fully
present in their startup andthey're let's say, they are out
for a surf, or they're out for arun, or they're walking, or
they're just taking some timeout to spend time with their
kids or whatever and they feel alittle bit guilty.
They know they need to beputting some fuel back in their
own tanks, but they feel guiltythat they're not working on the
(29:54):
business because it might be aThursday afternoon at 3 o'clock
or something like that.
Yet the reality is, the bestthing a founder can do is to
make really good decisions, andit's those decisions that only
come along once every month orso or every couple of months or
even every year, those reallybig decisions that, when they're
made well, they make a hugedifference on the business.
(30:16):
And to make them well, thefounders need to be free, to be
able to think, to be able topercolate on something, to
ruminate, to dream.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So it's sort of super interesting that we put
pressure on ourselves asfounders to keep working when,
in actual fact, actually makingthe best decisions sometimes
comes down to getting our headout of the game and going for a
surf, or going for a run orwhatever and we're making health
is such well, yeah, yeah, mostimportant a lot of ways and I
think if you're well, you knowyour business will be well, and
(30:47):
I think that I used to thinkbusiness was like an ultra
marathon, but now I look at itmore as like a series of sprints
.
There's got to be space forrest, recovery, get that, you
know, to then go boom and be,you know, sprint, fit again.
So I think incorporating thatinto your habits and honestly I
wasn't that good at it at thestart, especially with young
(31:09):
kids and the opportunity cost oftime not spent with them felt
hectic and hard.
But ever since last year, I putin really good practices around
exercise and, yeah, I makebetter decisions.
I feel more space than time,somehow, you know, and I'm
probably operating a lot better.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Now, I know you have covered this off in other
interviews, other podcasts, etcetera, but there will be people
who haven't heard the story.
So you co-share the CEO roleand that is, I think, my
understanding.
You co-share it with two others, so there's three of you that
share that role, three EOs thethree EOs which I'd never seen
until I was doing research.
So it's actually pretty coolTips for others that are
(31:48):
thinking about this.
Is it, you know?
Is it something that you'deasily do again?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
It's super weird when you start up and if one of you,
you know you've got multiplefounders and one of you is a CEO
and you notice the kind ofopportunities that come to them
or people who expect them to bein a room for the decisions, and
things like that, and that it'sjust this like weird societal
structure kind of put on that,where actually you're all in
there doing the same amount ofwork, working really hard, you
(32:17):
know, and so there's somethingkind of weird, and we've
experienced both at she's Earsand I really love that 3EO model
because it means that Leighton,sonia and I like we're
interchangeable in some ways,which is great.
You know, if there's a mediaopportunity or if there's
speaking opportunity or ifthere's you know somebody who
needs something at Sharesies,pick one of us and you've got
what you need, and then we canhave lighter shoulders, we can
(32:38):
share the load.
You know, like I've got theseshared consciousness to talk
about Sharesies and our strategyand where we're going and the
problems Like it's not all on myshoulders or all on theirs,
like we've got that amongstourselves, but also the wider
other founders too, and thatreally enables you to be set up
for the series of sprints and bein it for the long haul too.
So I think you'll know if it'llwork for you and your startup
(33:01):
and if anybody wants to chatabout it with me.
You know, happy as heavy yarn,but for us, we implemented it as
a trial for six months.
It worked really well and we'vebeen doing it for three and a
half years now and, yeah, I loveit.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And what about being married to one of your co-CEOs?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
as well.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
You probably at times feel like you're married to
Sonia as well, but I actuallyhad James Fuller on the show
sometime back now and he wassaying obviously his wife is the
COO at Henry and he said Ican't imagine doing it any other
way.
Like, start-ups are so hardthat to be able to go home and
share the burdens with somebodywho's got contextual knowledge
(33:41):
of exactly what you're talkingabout is the superpower.
How do you view that?
Is it easy?
Are you able to switch off,switch on, et cetera?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's the exact same, like it's what he said.
I was like I can't, even Ican't.
I don't know how it would haveworked if we both weren't in it.
You know Like it would havebeen quite it'd be harder.
I would have thought, like thatshared understanding, you know,
helps us even with the careside of things, like, yep, cool,
you need to be there for that,I'll get the kids or I need to
be here.
You know, like being able tokind of share that and
(34:10):
understand what's more importantis really helpful.
Yeah, and that ability to havethat shared consciousness on
things is really great too.
And, you know, challenge eachother's thinking and I guess
you're pretty, you know you canbe pretty frank with each other,
which is also great, you know,like just straight up feedback.
We kind of both love that, soit's quite helpful.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, and, as I said before, you've done a lot of
media and you and you speak atevents constantly, but is there
a question that you haven't beenasked that you would?
You would love it if somebodywould ask you that question or
something that you would want toshare if asked.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I just think, like when you said something that
founders might want to know islike sometimes, when you're
starting a company, you feellike you're starting from square
one, like you're creating itall, like you know like
templates and where to go, andoh, you know, like just reach
out to other founders honestly,like they will help you straight
away or, you know, can helpwith the basic templates or
(35:07):
whatever you know, like youdon't have to go it alone, like
there's definitely awesomesupport out there, and I think
it's really important, if youdon't have co-founders either,
to build a bit of a supportnetwork, because it takes a lot
of grit and resilience.
You'll be doing really hardwork and so having that support
around you is really reallycrucial and, honestly, none of
us, I don't think, could do whatwe're doing without really
(35:31):
strong support.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, I thank you for saying that, because I often
say that doing a startup is thehardest part of the commercial
world.
You know, it's like a differentsport from standard commerce,
like it's really, really, reallychallenging and in fact, it's
really hard.
So if anybody is consideringdoing a startup, really think
about this, because fact it'sreally hard.
So if anybody is consideringdoing a startup, really think
about this, because it's goingto be the toughest thing you'll
(35:52):
probably ever do.
So you obviously do catch up alot with other founders.
You've got this group on aFriday, do dinners and things
like that.
Do you find hanging out withfounders fills your bucket or do
you get drained by it becausepeople have got other, you know
other problems that they wantshared, I mean.
But net-net, it's a win for you.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh, I think, yeah, I think it's fantastic, kind of
normalises situations.
We can support each other.
It's great, I think you know,anyway, even if you're working
in a company, having peersupport is really important.
Like I was speaking to thislarge company recently and it
was like light bulbs for them,like, oh, I don't have to have
all the answers, I could justask other people here.
I was like, of course you can.
Like, you know, nobody expectsyou to have all the answers and
(36:34):
there's this weird pressure Ithink we put on ourselves of
being perfect or something.
It's like actually perfect isgetting it like done is better
than perfect, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So, yeah, just no, it's very it's, it's super,
super.
Brooke, I will put connectionlinks to you and Sharesies in
the show notes so that if peopledo want to reach out to you or
find out a little bit more aboutSharesies, they can do so.
I really, really want to thankyou not only for the time you've
given today, but just also therole that you play in the
(37:02):
ecosystem at Aotearoa justaround, the role you play for
founders in general femalefounders, those people who are
just starting out and alsoproviding a bit of inspiration
and impetus for those that haveactually been doing it for a
while.
So you play a really key rolethere and you're super humble,
you're super nice and kind, butyou're just crazy smart.
(37:23):
So well done to you and thebroader Sharesies team for
everything you do, and I'm soexcited to see where you guys go
in the coming years.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Thanks so much.
Appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, so really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, Brooke.
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