We all need time in nature to restore and renew. To find insight and creativity, to set big life goals and just to get away and restore our bodies to their factory settings.
Escape the relentless march of the clock and find solace in the wilderness with Chris Grant and Charlie Crisp from Unyoked.
This episode is the essence of a business literally born in the wild and the profound peace it promises to those entangled in the modern world. My own respite within an Unyoked cabin was so incredibly restorative and in this episode I learn all about the origin and ethos of Unyoked.
The founders' footsteps echo with lessons on the healing touch of nature and the challenging ascent of scaling a startup, offering insights into creating a venture that is as nurturing to the human spirit as it is successful in the marketplace.
Chris and Charlie speak of cabins under the stars and the symbiosis of sustainability and comfort that defines the Unyoked experience. Leaving with a heart full of starlight and a mind clear like the forest air, I extend an invitation to all of you to step into the Unyoked universe— an essential reset for the soul.
Find out all about Unyoked here.
And connect with Chris and Charlie.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
If you can kind of really focus on curating an
experience or a level ofhospitality or, regardless of
your industry, if you can makepeople walking away feeling
really good about themselves,you're going to be successful in
whatever business you're in.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I've actually got two people on this podcast with me
Chris Grant, the CEO andco-founder of Unyote, and
Charlie Crisp, general managerfor Unyoked.
Not everyone wants to, or hasthe ability to, be able to walk
five days to get that level ofnature or, you know, want to
sleep in a hut next to an oldmate snoring next to you in a
cot or even eat you knowfreeze-dried beef bourguignon
(00:39):
for four days straight too.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That kind of was the spark, I guess, and it kind of
reminded me of that sort ofpassion I had from a child, even
from primary school.
But I thought what this is.
It actually addresses a definedproblem, and I think that
there's a lot of people in NewZealand and a lot of people
around the world that areburning out without even
realising it, and I think thiswas the answer for me.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Getting that insight.
Whether it's a think week,whether it's a full week,
whether it's a day or two, justgetting off the grid and
becoming one again with nature,you just make better decisions.
You get a better insight.
Hey everybody, it's GregSheehan.
Welcome to my podcast, whereyou will hear from a range of
(01:21):
guests, including those from thestartup world and those that
have had incredibly interestinglives and some stories to tell.
I would really appreciate it ifyou could hit the follow button
and share this amongst yourfriends, but, as you know, time
is limited, so let's get on withit and hear from our next guest
, my guest today.
I've actually got two people onthis podcast with me Chris Grant
(01:45):
, the CEO and co-founder ofUnyoked, and Charlie Crisp,
general manager for Unyoked.
I actually met Charlie inTauranga, new Zealand, a month
or two back and it was kind ofcoincidental.
We bumped into each other in acafe and we were aware of one
another and then we had a propercoffee and Charlie was just
telling me a little bit aboutwhat he does for a living and he
(02:08):
was telling me all aboutUnyoked, and we'll talk about
that as we get into this episode.
I was actually I've got to sayI was actually a kind of huge
convert, just a natural convert.
When you understand whatUnyoked is all about, I just
couldn't.
In fact, I couldn't get enoughof it.
I kept saying to Charlie, Idon't need convincing, I just
absolutely love this concept forpeople who are busy, people who
(02:30):
need time out for whateverreason, particularly those in
the startup community who arekind of in that hustle and grind
.
So a couple of days ago I wentand experienced this for myself
and I went to a cabin inKawakawa Bay, just southeast of
Auckland in New Zealand, andexperienced it for myself and
honestly, it was outstanding.
(02:51):
So two nights in this cabin,everything that you could
possibly want there, likebeautiful bed, beautiful linen,
all of the kind of nice coffeesand wines, cooking on an open
fire, opening windows at nightand seeing a sky that was full
of stars the only sound youcould hear were the birds and a
(03:12):
creek that was running adjacentto the property.
Guys, I want to say thank youfor that, because it was an
incredible experience.
Charlie, I met you, as I say, amonth or so ago.
How did you get involved inUnyoked?
And then we'll throw across toChris and talk about the
founding of Unyoked.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, thanks very much for having both of us.
Greg Really appreciate being onthe show.
My story begins.
I grew up in a small sheep andbeef farm in Te Puna on the
outskirts of Tauranga, and I wasactually very fortunate to have
an outdoors environment that Icould play and thrive in with
friends and family and a lot ofcamping and hiking and things,
and also went to a rural primaryschool up.
(03:49):
In that the teachers werereally inspirational and
inspired and encouraged us tospend time in nature.
And then, you know, I sort offollowed that sort of standard
path of high school and actuallywent to high school in Sydney
where I met Chris and Cam overthere through, you know, various
social occasions and also Ithink we met each other a few
times on the basketball court,chris, and had some good battles
(04:11):
.
And then I actually ended upback in New Zealand and went to
Targo University and did acouple of degrees there and got
involved in a couple of smallmedical startups after that and
went back to Australia and kindof kept up the relationship with
the boys over there and then,like many of us, was really
chasing that kind of ambition inthe corporate world and that
sort of drive to succeed, and Ididn't realize it at the time.
(04:34):
But I guess I was gettingpretty burnt out and you know, I
was becoming a sort of aproduct of that kind of
corporate environment and it wasstarting to have kind of a
different impact on my life.
I was sort of prioritizing thewrong things and worried about
things that weren't in mycontrol, and so I got to that
kind of point of, wow, thisisn't really sustainable, it's
(04:55):
not really conducive to me beinghealthy or happy.
So you know, in order to getaway from that environment, you
just have to sort of hit theroad sometimes or do have a
pivot and go somewhere else.
So I actually then took offoverseas and sold my car and
ended up buying a caravan in theStates and then traveled down
through the States and CentralAmerica, basically surfing and
drinking a bit of rum and justbeing a bit of a lad.
(05:16):
And then, you know, after a fewmonths of that, I actually kind
of craved and missed the kindof structure and routine.
So I moved back to New Zealandand got back into that corporate
realm and it wasn't long beforethose habits started picking
back up again and I was justgrinding really hard and
adulting, I think, in a way, andsaving money to buy a house.
And you know I did that for twoor three years and managed to
(05:39):
scrape together some cash andbought a house.
And then the pandemic hit.
And I think three days after Isigned the papers for my house I
got an email from the directorsof the company I was working
with saying, hey, sorry, butyou've been redundant.
So it was kind of like, oh, sitback.
I was fortunate enough to getanother job.
But in that sort of grace period, you know, a group of friends
and I got together and decidedwe'd do a bit of an outdoor
(06:02):
experience and a hike.
And we actually decided to goto the Heafy Track down off the
west coast of New Zealand andyou know, if anyone's done that,
it's a pretty special part ofthe world.
The landscape's spectacular andit was just incredibly
impactful for me.
And I got about two days in andI kind of had that realisation,
you know, amongst one of them,standing on the decks of the hut
(06:24):
, looking out over the kind ofalpine tussock, and you'd have
that tingle on the back of yourneck, feeling that kind of
inhalation of really fresh air,and that perspective change when
you're looking into that reallybroad landscape and I was kind
of thinking, man, like this isneeded.
We need this more in our life,and I think this is the
counterweight to that stress andthe counterweight to that
(06:45):
pressure that many of us are inwithout even realizing it.
But I guess I thought to myself,like how could we make this
more accessible to people andhave a better level of amenity,
but make it easier for people toaccess and weave into their
routines?
You know, not everyone wants toor has the ability to be able
to walk five days to get thatlevel of nature.
(07:05):
Or, you know, want to sleep ina hut next to an old maid
snoring next to you in a cot, oreven eat you know, freeze dried
beef, bourbon johns, for fourdays straight too.
That kind of was the spark, Iguess, and it kind of reminded
me of that sort of passion I hadfrom a child, even from primary
school.
But I thought what this is isit actually addresses a defined
(07:25):
problem, and I think thatthere's a lot of people in new
zealand and a lot of peoplearound the world that are
burning out without evenrealizing it, and I think this
was the answer for me.
So I got back home and I kind oflooked into a few of the stats
around burnout and and thingslike that.
It was amazing how connectedpeople are and how much time
they spend on the screen.
I think the average kiwi spendsclose to you know they unlock
(07:48):
their phone eight times everyhour, which is, you know that's
roughly eight minutes a day, andyou know we're spending six
hours on average dependinglifetime at 17 years looking at
a screen.
So I got I got back in touchwith with chris and cam and I
was.
I'd heard that they were doingsomething along the lines of
creating a business that waskind of an outdoors on-demand
service with these beautifullittle cabins, these curated
(08:10):
cabins, and I did a bit ofresearch and found out that what
they were doing was actuallyexactly what I wanted to do and
had a passion in doing so.
I called up Chris and Cam.
I was like, hey, boys, I thinkyou've got a great solution here
.
How can we bring this to NewZealand and how can I help
facilitate more Kiwis to getinto nature more often and
easier?
So that's kind of how I gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So what year is this?
What year are we talking abouthere, because I know Anyoke was
started, sort of 2016.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, so this would have been.
It was probably about 2020, Ithink that I kind of got
involved with the boys Is thatright, chris?
So 2019?
I kind of got involved with theboys.
So right, chris, so 2019, Ithink.
And then it was about 2020 thatwe kind of started to flesh it
out a bit more.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, I'll tell you, it's the first time in 2019,
yeah, yeah, that's a great segueacross to you, Chris.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Chris, you and Cam obviously co-founded this.
Before we sort of talk abouthow you got started with,
Unyoked a little bit of abackground from you and your
early origin story.
Were you one of those kids whogrew up always wanting to be an
entrepreneur?
I saw that you studiedmarketing and finance and that
(09:13):
sort of thing, but were you anentrepreneur from the get-go?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's a good question I'd always liked doing things
outside the box.
I always had a hunger to learn,a real sharp curiosity curiosity
.
It became pretty clear early onthat, yes, you know, my brother
and I wanted to to break out ofthe corporate world and build
something for ourself.
I don't know when that you knowwhen you could could say that I
transitioned to an entrepreneur.
(09:38):
You know, from 12 years old Iwas doing paper runs and working
, and our dad is fairlyentrepreneurial, or at least
adventurous in his choices.
So yeah, I think you could sayI had a spark from early on.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
And then so what was the origin story for you and Cam
?
Getting started with Unyoked,did you have a similar kind of
moment to the one that Charliehad around the need for
something like this?
What was the origin of that?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, I think that's why Unyog's been able to be so
successful.
I think because my origin storyis very similar to Charlie's
and I think that a lot of otherpeople have that same point that
they're reaching.
So yeah, you know, I studiedmarketing finance, as you
mentioned.
I moved into the corporateworld.
I worked for Woolworths, one ofAustralia's biggest companies
(10:25):
in the marketing department.
That's sort of where I realisednot for me.
Then I moved to a fast-growthstartup out of the US based in
Sydney, and then that took me toAsia and there I sort of built
up the skill set and theexperience that I've lent with
Unyote the sort of catalyst wasa similar piece to Charlie.
(10:46):
It was not living the life thatI'd grown up living.
You know, we moved aroundAustralia.
I was born in the NorthernTerritory.
We spent a lot of time campingand hiking and mucking around
outdoors and at the time wedidn't know that the nature was
having an effect on us, that itwas, but we just enjoyed it.
But once you took that out andyou know I was working in
Singapore and my brother wasworking for one of the
(11:06):
Australia's largest banks and wewere talking about it we were
feeling that same friction,charlie, was that we're getting
burnt out.
We're spending so much time onour computer, we're spending so
much time in the city, too muchtime around lights and pollution
, that we're feeling shitty forit and what's missing that time
in nature.
And we were doing that.
But we were doing one trip ayear, you know, going to exotic
(11:28):
places and spending our leavethat we had on this one trip,
but then you'd come back feelingworse for a year to have a
mountain of emails stacking up.
So that problem, which we'velearned, is a universal one, or
fairly universal one, for peopleliving and working in urban
areas.
Yeah, was the driver, and tohave a solution for ourselves
was the first step.
So my brother and Ibootstrapped a couple of cabins.
(11:51):
We worked with some friendsfrom uni to, at the time, a tiny
house, which is sort of themode that we chose because it's
transportable.
They didn't exist in Australiaor New Zealand.
We worked with a Bulgarianarchitect that we found online
who'd built one, and spoke to acouple of people in the US.
And then, yeah, with somefriends from uni, patched
(12:12):
together the first couple ofcabins, sent out 10,000
postcards, went and dawned offto find some land partners to
work with.
So, for anyone who's not fullyacross our model, we unlock
private properties or propertiesheld by organisations,
government institutions,not-for-profits, anyone who has
access to large wilderness areasthat are perhaps being
(12:35):
underutilised.
As wild as possible is what welook like, and then we can
unlock these, you know, givethem back to the public in a
sense, make them accessibleagain, again and then put hotel
level accommodation andamenities in there.
But it's all off-grid, it's alllow touch, it's all about
composting toilet, but we uselocal water sources so we can
(12:56):
get this amenity into somewherethat had previously been
unlocked and you know had alsobeen inaccessible.
You know you had to hike inthere with a tent, but now we
unlock it and then the purposeis to help people then access
the benefits of nature, get outof the city, get away from that
friction that we were feeling,spend two days in nature and the
science around it is compelling.
(13:18):
It shows that your cortisollevels will decrease, heart rate
will decrease, yourinflammation markers will go
down, you can think better,you're more creative, you're
happier, you feel more connectedwith other people.
It's intense, the bucket ofpositive interactions that
happen to your body when youspend time in anxious.
So yeah, our role is aneducator around that and then a
(13:41):
conduit to be able to connectpeople and make it easily
accessible.
So that's a long-wind be ableto connect people and make it
easily accessible.
So that's a long-winded answerto how did we start.
But that's it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, that's awesome.
And so you got started with acouple of cabins yourself and
I'm imagining you probablyknocked up a website and started
to promote it once you had somesites that you could use.
Imagining it's fairly capitalintensive to get these cabins.
How did you get around that?
Did you raise money?
How did that work?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So we bootstrapped the firstcouple ourselves and, you know,
did them on a dime, so to speak.
And then I built a WordPresswebsite, at the time seeded an
article in a publication calledConcrete Playground, which was a
sort of millennial popularpublication here.
They sort of dropped the launcharticle and then we brought
(14:30):
their website down briefly for afew minutes and it was their
most popular article in years.
And that was sort of the pointthat we were like okay, we're
onto something here, there is ademand for this and we're going
to need to find more capital,that there is a demand for this
and we're going to need to findmore capital.
(14:51):
So we were lucky enough to havea few sort of enterprising angel
investors reach out to usthrough that first tranche of
media.
So that gave us the firstlittle lick of capital.
It wasn't quite enough for usto quit our day jobs at the time
, so we were still workingcorporate roles and then
evenings and weekends, you know,heading out to the cabin to
clean, composting toilets.
But from those firstconnections there's a couple of
(15:11):
couple of first players there.
The networking began and that'sreally how we've funded the
business.
Since then we've raised over 45million or so to date.
It's just been.
Those first couple of peopleintroduced us to five people.
Each first couple of peopleintroduced us to five people
each and those five peopleintroduced us to five people
each and there's been a lot ofconversations, a lot of wheeling
and dealing, but that'sessentially how we've handled it
(15:34):
.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And so has that capital been raised?
You know, like you've got a captable with a lot of different
investors on, or have theyfunded it in some other way?
That's not, you know, directlytaking share capital in the
company.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
We've sort of explored and evolved a number of
different capital modes overthe journey.
So we do have a large cap tableof individual shareholders.
For the first four or fiveyears of the business, the
largest investment, singleinvestment, would have been a
couple of hundred thousand, andyou know we would have had a lot
more in the sort of 50,000 to25,000 range.
(16:06):
So we did have to deal with alot of people, but that was also
something that in hindsightwe've said was a benefit, gave
us access to the informaladvisory board and we had all of
these sort of proponents of thebusiness at this sort of level
of high net worth individual andit gave us networks and skills
(16:28):
that we wouldn't have had accessto potentially and also gave us
a bit more room to findourselves.
If we'd gone with one largeinvestor at the beginning giving
away a larger chunk of thebusiness, we would have had to
be beholden to them and how theywant to grow the business.
So we've been able to grow it abit more organically because of
that route.
So, yeah, we took a lot ofsmaller checks from a lot of
(16:53):
great people, and then we'vealso done a crowdfund to get our
community involved, which wasas much a marketing initiative,
as it was a fundraising one.
So you know, the idea was tocreate some brand evangelists
and have people invest in thebusiness who are also using the
business and the product.
And then you know we've broughton venture debt, we've got
(17:15):
private equity now.
So you know we've sort of runthe gambit.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And excuse the naivety, but because you have
got a lot of investors on thecap table, both through the
crowdfunding approach and directapproach and networking etc.
Does that mean that you haverequirements around being
somewhat almost not necessarilypublicly listed, but just a
higher reporting requirementbecause you've just got more
people in there on the cap table?
(17:41):
Yeah, you do have to becreative people in there on the
cap table.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, you do have to be creative.
There's, I think, what a beartrust where you can group people
together into the one entityand as long as those people are
happy to do that, then theyappear as one, you know, on the
cap table instead of many.
So we've we've leveraged thatas as we've hit that marker of
50 plus.
The crowd fund works a littlebit similar to that, but it also
has sort of newer legislationaround it that does make it less
(18:06):
onerous.
So, you know, our reporting toour board and our shareholders
already sort of hits anyrequirements, so it's not
something that should be shiedaway from.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't think for that purpose yeah, and tell me a
little bit about the journey ofgrowing the company.
So you know the two of you, soyour brothers you were saying
you and Cam, so your brothersyou start the company, you start
adding cabins and that starts,you know, meaning that you've
got more customers, you've gotmore need to hire staff, et
cetera.
That journey over the lasteight years, how's that gone in
(18:38):
terms of, you know, growing thatout and the changing, changing
nature of being a co-founder anda CEO of a company that's
growing?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, I mean it keeps us guessing, which we love.
So my brother it's not just mybrother, my twin brother, cam so
I think that's been a blessing,the fact that we can put
ourselves into this sort ofpressure cooker environment that
we know factually tests a lotof co-founders and a lot of
co-founders can't take the heatand it ends up with a broken
(19:07):
relationship and you know it'sone of the largest reasons that
startups fail.
So us being twins, although youknow it might mean more
agreements or disagreements, itmeans that we can't ultimately
break up because we were borntogether.
So that has helped that journey.
And, yeah, as the businessgrows and we get more customers
(19:27):
and more employees, we alwaysCharlie knows this analogy talk
about growing a startup as goingup steps.
You know it's not your standardline graph that just goes up
diagonal, it's steps, and so youknow you'll be on the plateau
and you know you'll be cruisingand everything will be great.
But then you're going to hitthat next step and you're going
to have to go straight up andthat's when we've got to, you
(19:49):
know, find new employees for newskills, for new stages of the
business, or we've got to growour customer base at a faster
rate than we're rolling outcabins, because we've just
brought on new investments, sowe're rolling cabins out.
The marketing has a three tosix-month lead time, so really
we've got to start thatpreviously.
So you know, there's all sortsof learnings along the way, but
with that step analogy we'vebeen able to sort of take it as
(20:12):
it comes.
And you know, when we know wehit an up step, that's just
we've got to knuckle down andwork hard on it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
And I'm imagining that.
You know, like any otherstartup founder, you have stress
and you have almost a desireand a need to go and use your
own product.
Can you get away by going andusing an unyoke cabin yourself?
Do you get away?
Or do you because you'reliterally living inside your own
product?
(20:39):
At that point you're like, well, we can't really escape it and
you notice something that youneed to change or you think of
an idea.
How does that work?
Do you use them for thatpurpose?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I do, I do actually I use them for that purpose.
I do, I do.
Actually, I use them for a fewpurposes.
The purpose I tend to use themfor most is the creative
environment, and so I use it togo there to tackle something.
You know, I had a presentationat a 1,000-person conference
late last year and prior to thatI went and spent four days in
(21:08):
one of the cabins and I broughtmy post-it notes and my
whiteboard markers and I wasriding on the on the glass doors
and then I was going for for ahike and I was coming back and
the science around what spendingtime in it can do for your
creative and your criticalproblem solving is really
interesting and I know it to betrue.
So you know the same way tostart a year off, I go down
there and I spend three days andthe first part's just.
(21:32):
The first day is just sort ofpeeling back the stress, and
then the second day is lookingat my past year retrospectively
and then the third day islooking at the year coming and
setting my goals.
So I find it really usefulusing it for those instances and
then definitely I just go outthere to chill out.
You know I met Charlie andthose kawakawa bay ones.
Earlier this year we had a hottub together there in the forest
(21:54):
.
You know definitely can stillget that experience, even though
my brain is is firing.
I usually do a sweep when Istart and then a sweep when I
end and take all the notes andthen the middle part I can.
I can spend that how you should.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, it's interesting because one of the
reflections I had while I wasthere is it would be because one
of the reflections I had whileI was there is it would be
because the particular locationI had there were three cabins
within walking distance of oneanother, albeit you can't see
the other cabins and you feelincredibly isolated and alone,
which is so awesome, but youcould use it as some sort of
team retreat, because you couldhave a couple of people in one
(22:29):
cabin, a couple of people inanother and you could then, you
know, spend time alone, but youcould also get together in the
evenings around the campfire, etcetera.
Pretty cool.
So give us a sense of size andscale now.
You said you've raised $45million.
My understanding is you've gotover 100 cabins now, or am I
well out of date with thatnumber?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh, cabins now, or am I well out of date with that
number?
Oh, yeah, yeah, we're sittingat about 120 or so cabins that
are live.
We've got the number inproduction both in Australia and
we ship to from Australia, newZealand and then in the UK,
where we've got a growing marketas well.
So you know, I've been over inEurope having a look at
potential new markets recentlybut at the moment, yeah, those
are our sort of three coremarkets and we've got a lot of
(23:10):
growth over the next sort of 18months.
You know, our aim is to unlockas many awesome landscapes that
the world has, you know, andmake them accessible to our
community.
So I'd love cabins in all sortsof weird and wonderful places
for you to be able to know thatAnyo can get you access to the
best expression of a landscapethat a country has by yourself.
(23:31):
So you're there, just nature,just birds, just trees, and you
can really experience it.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
What's the hardest part of building a business like
this?
Because it's not a technologybusiness per se.
In fact, it's the antithesis ofthat.
It's something that's designedto get you away from screens and
to connect with ourselves in abetter way.
But no doubt there will stillbe really challenging aspects to
building a business like this.
What have you found to be oneof the hardest things about
building a physical business andI guess, almost like a tourism
(23:59):
business, charlie, you want tojump in.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I guess one of the challenges is localising it
right, like I sort of came onboard with Unyorked and really
wanted to facilitate the sameexperience in New Zealand but
add a lot of different touchpoints to be able to really
authentically engage with thecommunity here but make it Kiwi,
give it some Kiwi substance.
So I think one of thechallenges for New Zealand is
(24:35):
the fact that a lot of Kiwisknow and are aware we have some
of the best landscapes in theworld but I think still spend a
lot their time indoors.
And if we do go into theoutdoors we take that busy
mindset with us and we we loveadventure sports and don't get
me wrong, I mean you can seefrom my office garage background
here I'm also a passion ofadrenaline sports.
But blasting down a chute on asnowboard or going fast down a
mountain on a mountain bike,sure it reduces, you know,
endorphins and adrenaline, butit doesn't necessarily mean that
you come back rested or, youknow, refreshed, or you know,
(24:57):
mentally and physically.
So I think it's it's been alittle bit of a challenge to try
and help people break thatcycle and realize the need to
actually be content, doingnothing at times and just
actually slow down, recalibrate,refresh and how that can impact
your wellness and yourcreativity and your and your
stress and your focus.
Like chris was saying, I thinkthat sort of shift in behavior
(25:18):
is a little bit of a challenge,but we are starting to make some
great inroads with that andpeople are starting to realize
that it's an indispensable partof your routine and that nature
is actually like really goodsolution to a lot of the
pressure you're under in a sortof modern life oh, undoubtedly,
and I know in my own experiencethe best insights I get are when
(25:38):
I'm not at work and I use workalmost at speech marks when I'm
not at a computer, when I'm notat a phone, when I'm not in
civilization, I'm generally outin nature.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm either going for a run or, like I said, I've
experienced your cabin.
So, getting that insightwhether it's a think week,
whether it's a full week,whether it's a day or two, just
getting off the grid andbecoming one again with nature
you just make better decisions.
You get a better insight.
Hey, just let me pause youthere for a second and tell you
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headaches.
Let's get back to the show.
So, in terms of the businesselement of Unyoked, has the most
challenging part been aroundwhat?
Gaining access to land, makingpeople aware of the need to go
and do what we just talked about.
What's the toughest part aboutbuilding the business in that
sense?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I think just to touch on the New Zealand side again,
I think what we also offer isthat ability to provide some
sustainable and passive revenueto landowners.
That's ag cycle resistant.
As I said before, I grew up ona farm and have worked on farms
and understand the pressures ofthat environment, especially as
a really agricultural country,and I think it was a little bit
of a shift in mentality for alot of landowners as well to
(27:34):
understand that this actuallyprovides a really good source of
revenue that is consistent andis regular.
But people are precious oftheir land too.
They don't want strangerswalking over it, especially if
they've got things like cowriedieback disease in the country
and they fear that peopleinterfere with their farming
operations and things likecowrie dieback disease in the
country and they fear thatpeople interfere with their
farming operations and thingslike that, and if there's injury
(27:54):
on farms too.
But I think that once we got afew going, people started to
realize that she was a reallygood sort of additional hustle
or model on your farm to makesome money.
And yeah, that took a littlebit of time, but now we've got
sort of a pipeline of around 500leads and the plan donors want
a cabin.
So you know, I guess that wasone of the early challenges.
Would you agree with that,chris and Ozzy?
(28:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I think we've had various bottlenecks that we've
had to throw over the life cycleof the business for sure, and a
lot of it comes down to uswanting to operate at this sort
of top quality point.
To operate at this sort of topquality point, we don't want to
be doing things that otherpeople can do.
We don't want to be settlingfor just any old paddock or you
(28:37):
know, a small patch of landwhere you can see a house or a
road.
We really only want rawexpressions of nature where you
can fully immerse into.
But it has to be accessible bya two-wheel drive, it has to
have potable water near it, ithas to be beautiful and give you
that tingle on the neck thatCharlie got on his walk when he
first came up with the idea tobring a yoke to New Zealand.
So that's what we want to giveeverybody.
(28:58):
But to be able to do that ittakes a lot.
Out of that 500 properties thatwe've got, we need our team to
go phone, screen them, desktopanalysis, analysis with map
overlays and topographical maps,and then we need to go out and
do site visits and track theproperty and mark potential
cabins and then do noise andsite tests to make sure that you
can't see or hear from thoselocations, and then there's all
(29:22):
sorts of preparation and set upand that goes into it.
So being able to do that on alarge scale across three
countries has definitely had itsdifficulty, but it's also one
of the most fun parts aboutbuilding the business as well is
that we get to see all of theseawesome properties and try and
find these hidden gems oflocations that can create that
(29:42):
tingle and get people excited.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
One of the things I was most impressed about was how
you had thought of all of thelittle details so to give
listeners some sort of sense ofthe experience.
So the cabin it is out of sightof other people so you're not
going to get looked on by others.
Yet you are close so, as yousaid, two-wheel drive access you
(30:05):
can take your car in there.
It was only a really short walkinto this lovely secluded place
.
The creek runs through.
It had a bit of an elevatedaspect, so the view across the
canopy of the tree line wasfantastic.
The sun and the way the suncomes in is superb.
It's solar powered and yet neverran out of power.
(30:25):
There always seemed to beenough power there.
You had even just things likeorganic soaps and things like
that to use wine.
Everything was there and anincredibly comfortable bed.
So I know you've also builtpartnerships with other
suppliers.
So, for example, there wasenamel cups and plates, et
cetera, which made that sort ofexperience even more authentic.
(30:46):
Sleepy head on the bed.
The linen was good.
How long did it take you beforeyou started building
partnerships with othersuppliers into the Unyoked
experience?
Was that something that you setout to do from the get-go when
you got the first couple ofcabins.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, or is that something that's evolved?
From an origin perspective?
It was something that we setabout really early on, namely
because it's less capital outlayfor us if we can get a
partnership to provide themattresses, the coffee and the
amenities.
We've been lucky enough thatwe've had a lot of companies
approach us for these sort ofpartnerships and so we can
(31:23):
screen them and look for thebest quality that will give our
customers the best possibleexperience.
So, yeah, it's been somethingthat we've said about from the
beginning, not just the costbenefits, but also the reach
benefits.
You know, when you're a growingbusiness and you can partner
with another business and thenyou can help cross-pollinate
your customer pools and, youknow, do posts on each other's
(31:44):
channels and things like that,it's a big help.
So I think it's a great littlestrategy.
It helps you network andcollaborate and meet awesome
people, you know, withinancillary industries as well.
So, yeah, from the get-go we'vehad that approach.
We've got what we call thelittle big things.
You know we put a lot of effortinto those elements in the
(32:04):
cabin.
It's all around, helping youslow down, helping juxtapose
against your normal life.
Like you would assume, there'sa hand and coffee grinder.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You've got to put your beans in.
And it's a little bit of aneffort, but that's the point.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
So you've got to sit there and grind a couple of
coffees worth of beans andyou're just sitting there doing
that.
You're not putting a pod into amachine, then putting the pod
into the landfill, you're justthere grinding raw beans into
powder.
So there's a lot of elementsthat we put into the cabin with
thought designed for thatpurpose yeah, and like things
(32:39):
like cast iron.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
You know skillets and frying pans that were just so
beautiful to cook with on theopen fire and I was really
impressed.
You had it, and I don't evenknow what you call it, but
there's like the hot tray andthe grill pivots above the
fireplace so you can actuallyset the cooking temperature
while you're cooking.
I thought that was.
I wish I'd known about thatyears ago, when I had a little
(33:01):
bit of an outdoor fire pit athome, because they're really
cool.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, it's about maximizing the environment.
As Chris touched on earlier,it's the cabin's, the
facilitator and all the littletiny pieces of intentionality
are curated for the purpose ofmaximizing how you feel in that
environment and what you get outof it and what you take home
with you.
And, as Chris mentioned, allthe little products and all the
little things have been given alot of focus with clear purpose
(33:28):
to help you do that and that arerelatable and are localized.
You know that people canassociate with and bring more
authenticity to the overallexperience.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Exactly those custom pans you mentioned.
That's Ironclad Co.
They're a great New Zealandbusiness.
You know really cool peoplebehind it trying to do something
.
They're trying to buildproducts that last three
generations.
So minimizing wastage, buildingsomething with intent that
lasts is really a message thatresonates with.
(33:59):
You know what we're trying todo with our low touch
experiences.
So, um, yeah, they're the sortof partner that we look for?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
yeah, definitely, and you know that kind of product
also adds to that experience ofour kind of philosophy around
sustainability and helpingeducate around off-grid living
and living more sustainably, andyou know we definitely take
pride in that kind of ethosaround taking steps to protect
things for future generations aswell, so we hope people come
(34:26):
back with a bit more of amindset around that too and how
does it work between you twoguys?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So you know, one of you is a co-founder and one of
you is running the business inNew Zealand as general manager.
I don't know, Charlie, whetheryou also run aspects of the
wider business across Australia,the UK.
But how does that work kind ofday to day, Because there will
be people listening to this whoare thinking of bringing
somebody into the team to takesome of the load.
(34:51):
How does that work at apractical level?
You know you can talk openlyabout this.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
We have a really cool culture at unearthed and that's
what really brought me in.
It's just, it's a great bunchof people that are all heading
in the same trajectory andthere's no ego or superiority or
any of that bullshit.
It's just like we definitelyhave like this one team
mentality that we collaboratereally well.
We are very open andtransparent with each other and,
yeah, we have healthy conflictas well and definitely it's been
(35:17):
.
You know, strategic decisionsor true fight and head on.
But you know, everybody hasthat between markets because
ultimately the audiences areslightly different and there's
cultural nuances.
We are very locked into ourcentral model.
We have, you know, marketingteam and our operations team.
Our supply chain are all veryintegrated and we catch up
regularly.
We have whole team meetings aswell, once every couple of weeks
(35:39):
across four countries I thinkchris, australia, new zealand to
the uk and the philippines.
We all get online and we haveproject steering groups together
.
We all discuss and ultimatelywe're all mates.
Like we catch up and we havereally good team off sites where
we go into nature and we talkstrategy and we figure out
what's working, what doesn'twork.
We inspire the sort ofcreativity and that allows us to
(35:59):
kind of, yeah, I guess, buildthe experience even more for our
community too.
But yeah, it's a model thatworks really well because of the
openness and transparency Ithink.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Does it help that you guys are mates from high school
, or does that almost get in theway because you're like mate,
don't give me that.
You know, don't give me thatbullshit.
I know what you were like whenyou were 16.
Or does it actually?
It's a positive because youknow each other so well and you
can trust one another.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I think it's a positive.
Like, chris and I have like aweekly catch up that we call
just a walk and talk.
So you know it's not even on ascreen, we're not looking at
tasks, we're just chatting andwe check in with each other and
we ask each other about how ourmental health is for the week
and what our families are up toand like what do we do on the
weekend, and then we talk shop.
You know it's not really likehe's my boss, I'm his minion in
(36:43):
new zealand.
It's more of a, I'd say, aneutral hierarchy where we kind
of all hitting in the samedirection and we kind of see
each other on the same sort ofplatform.
Do you, do you agree with that,chris?
Or maybe maybe you don't?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Very much.
So.
That's the.
That's exactly how it'scollaborative.
We're all enjoying what we'redoing and enjoying being around
each other.
And you know it's it's abouthiring the right people and,
like Charlie, he's that rightsort of person for the role.
He's got a positive bias andhe's a can-do sort of guy, you
(37:17):
know, as a as a country starter,which is what he.
He you know that took it whenthere wasn't a business in the
country and he's had to wear alot of hats to get it done and
he's the perfect sort of personfor that.
So I think it's about pickingthe right people.
So it wasn't just becauseCharlie was, it was mate, it was
because he was the right guywith the right skills for this
role.
And then, yeah, having theculture that we do, which keeps
everyone sort of on the leveland everyone has a say, and then
(37:39):
making sure there's structureto it too.
So we've got the right meetingsat the right time, where people
know that that's the time andplace to have that say yeah, it
all works well.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
And is the team fully remote or do you have some sort
of central office somewhere?
Speaker 3 (37:54):
or We've got an office in Sydney and we've got
an office in the UK as well andthen in New Zealand.
We're remote at the moment,although Charlie's over here
quite often and I'm over therequite often, Right?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, and no sort of thoughts of having a head office
in a cabin, right, yeah, and nosort of thoughts of having a
head office in a cabin, which isreally good wi-fi, which is
then probably not off the grid.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Then is it yeah, we've got, we've got maybe our
four original cabins, the ogs,like the couple that cam, and I
did our stuff with some friendsand then the first couple of
prototypes.
After that They've been sort ofsunsetted from normal run but
they're up at one of ourcolleagues' property here
outside Sydney and we go up as ateam and you know we all do
(38:40):
strategic sessions and someoff-sites there.
So you know that's, you knowhalfway there, but I don't think
our full-time office with asmany people as we have these
days.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, exactly, chris.
You've been at the founder gamenow for a while.
Any comments, thoughts, ideasfor other founders on things
they should be?
You know advice you would wantto impart with other founders,
things you've learned along yourjourney that have made a big
difference to you.
Know how you go about buildinga business.
Is there something that you'dwant to share with?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
founders?
That's a good question.
I mean something that comes tomind just because I just touched
on it there with Charlie but ishiring for optimism.
It's something that we made anactive choice to do from early
on, and not blind optimism, buta positive bias.
And so testing your hires forthat for initiative as well, but
(39:34):
for a positive bias, I think,has really enabled us to have
this culture and have the peoplearound us that we enjoy working
with and that, you know, seeproblems as challenges to
overcome, not as issues tocomplain about.
You know that's that's been areal key, I think, to our
success in building the teamthat we've managed to build and,
you know, to the listeners whodon't think they have a positive
key, I think, to our success inbuilding the team that we've
managed to build and to thelisteners who don't think they
(39:55):
have a positive bias, it issomething that I think you can
train and work on, so don'tcount yourself out.
I think stuff like dailygratitude and focusing on the
positives and changing yourlanguage with yourself and
there's some things you can do.
But for a founder, it's a bigbenefit to have those sort of
people in your team and to beable to catch people who might
not be there yet before youbring them on and what are your
respective superpowers?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
for both of you, you know that make a big difference
to building unyoked, and I knowyou're both humble guys, but
what would you say?
Those?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
are, from my perspective, like launching a
company in a newer emergingmarket, as chris mentioned.
You know you have to have adegree of flexibility and wear a
few hats at times and do thingsthat you know, reprioritize
things and, I think,resourcefulness as well.
I think I've had to kind ofadopt a mentality that there's
no point thinking about thethings that you don't have.
You know you should be focusedon what you can do with what
(40:44):
you've got and at times thatmeans just grinding and putting
your head down and getting work.
But also I think it's beenreally important to reach out to
the central team for supportwhen I've needed it as well,
definitely.
And I guess the other thing isthat sort of power of
intentionality that christouched on before with the
experience and you know I read aquote a while ago that people
will forget what you do, they'llforget what you said, but
(41:06):
they'll never forget how youmade them feel.
So for me it's been a realemphasis on focusing on that
experience and how and what sortof sense of belonging people
have when they're engaged in ourcommunity and what they walk
away feeling.
So I think like if you can kindof really focus on curating an
experience or a level ofhospitality, or regardless of
your industry.
(41:26):
If you can make people walkingaway feeling really good about
themselves, you're going to besuccessful in whatever business
you're in.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, I can see the brand that you're building even
just through not just theexperience that you get when you
stay at a cabin, but also justthe way that you do your merch
and your caps and the apparel etcetera.
Are you building a brand thatpeople can really connect with
and it's a brand where, ideally,they had quite a special
(41:56):
experience, maybe a bit of alife-changing moment, and so to
be able to connect with thosesort of times pretty special.
It must be easy, with the widerteam to build the why you know,
like why you guys do this.
It just it feels like it justcomes through your pores for
both of you.
Chris, what about you?
From a superpower?
What do you think makes youknow something about you that
(42:18):
makes unyoked that bit moresuccessful?
Because you're just bloody goodat it?
Speaker 3 (42:22):
it's probably a soft skill similar to to what charlie
mentioned, but I'd say empathy.
The ability to be empathetichas really helped me in my
journey and you know, from theground floor level of
understanding customers to youknow, treating every customer
who's even had a mild orexperience in the early days,
(42:43):
going above and beyond, to thenbeing able to read people and
hire the right people, to beingable to communicate in the right
way with my team and mystakeholders, and in fundraising
.
I think it's been a real skillthat I've been able to lean on
and, yeah, it's helped me get tothis point.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, and in terms of ways that you each get inspired
or get ideas for building thebusiness, are there things that
you've read books, know books,that you've read podcasts, you
listen to music, you know how doyou get a sense of inspiration,
or is it just feeling theproduct?
Like I would imagine that'sactually kind of easy to do with
the product that you have.
(43:21):
But is there something that youguys do to kind of recharge
outside of going and visiting acabin?
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Interacting with nature in any way is good and
that's.
You know we like to championthat it doesn't have to be a
cabin.
So you know I'm often at thebeach I live near the beach, you
know walking or going to thepark.
Yesterday I was driving intothe city to go to a meeting and
I stopped at the Botanic Gardensand had a quick walk around and
then went to my meeting.
So just little cheeky stop-offslike that helped keep me going.
(43:53):
In terms of podcasts and books,I listen to a bit of Jay Shetty
.
He's on purpose, I don't knowif you've come across him.
He interviews interestingpeople and I quite like his sort
of philosophic approach.
I read a bit of sort of history.
I just finished a biography onLeonardo da Vinci which was
really interesting.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
The Walter Isaacson one.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah, fascinating, right, and that junction between
unscience is really somewherethat we're trying to take on the
oath, because there's so muchscience behind nature, but it
also, you know, it is an art,there's a creative side to it,
there's something that you justfeel that you can't explain.
So I resonated with that.
Um.
So yeah, looking to the pastfor ideas for the future is, I
(44:38):
think, something that's that'skey to staying on top of things
fantastic, charlie.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
what about you?
I, um, I had a few yearsexperience in the medical
industry as well, so I alwayslike, quite enjoyed reading the
medical papers around nature'simpact and that kind of proof
that it's the kind of defense orthe prophylactic response at
the top of the cliff as opposedto the ambulance at the bottom.
I've dug deep into heaps ofanecdotal evidence around the
(45:03):
reduction in cortisol levelsit's around 21% per hour spent
in nature.
The impact around your creativeoutput, the ability to sleep
better, the ability to think andimprove your cognitive function
.
So I really enjoy that side ofthings.
I love being in nature as wellmyself.
I mean, I kind of live near thebeach, luckily enough, and also
spend a bit of time in thehills.
(45:23):
I enjoy things like hunting andfishing and diving, not so much
from the killing aspect of itat all, but more so around
harvesting my own food andcooking it and just generally
being out there and using it asa place of reflection.
Also love to read as well.
I read a great book,unreasonable Hospitality,
recently which I highlyrecommend, and it's kind of what
I was touching on before.
(45:43):
Isn't around like putting yourteam and your customer at the
heart of every decision andusing that intentionality to
create an experience.
I think, yeah, it's afascinating read as well.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
It's funny.
You should say that because Ihave just done an interview with
Aaron Ward, who is theco-founder of Ask Nicely, and he
also mentioned that a book hehas just finished reading is
Unreasonable Hospitality.
To anybody listening, I'm notsponsored by the author of
Unreasonable Hospitality, but itsounds like it's a really,
really good book.
It sounds like a fantastic read.
(46:14):
Guys, I'm going to wrap upthere, but just to say that,
charlie, when I first met you,you were so passionate about
what Unyoked does, honestly, youneeded no encouragement to
share what Unyoked is all aboutand what changes it can have on
people's lives, and I didn'tneed any convincing, like I
(46:37):
think.
I felt like I fell over youwith enthusiasm and excitement
for the Unyoked experience and,having just experienced it, it
was truly outstanding.
Like it really was a couple ofnights that were really really
special.
We were super fortunate thatthe weather was good, the stars
were out, cooking fajitas on anopen fire just outstanding.
(47:00):
Doing coffee on an open firewith fresh beans, et cetera, and
, as I say, just hearing the NewZealand bird life listening to
the creek.
It really is amazing.
So for anybody out there,regardless of actually what you
do, a lot of people listening tothis in the startup world.
If you're in the startup worldand you're feeling a bit
frazzled, a bit fried, check outUnyoked.
(47:22):
It's unyokedcom.
So it's just an outstanding,outstanding experience.
I want to thank you guys, notonly for the interview today,
but just what you're doing, whatyou're building, because people
can experience that time out insuch a profound way and
reconnect with themselves, withpeople they love, with their
(47:43):
business ideas, the love fortheir business, whatever it is
that they do.
I certainly need no convincingand if if you're listening to
this, go and check out thewebsite but most importantly now
go and check out an actualcabin and that experience.
So thank you guys really, reallyappreciate it.
That's great, thank you verymuch.
If you can kind of really focus on curating an
experience or a level ofhospitality or, regardless of
your industry, if you can makepeople walking away feeling
really good about themselves,you're going to be successful in
whatever business you're in.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I've actually got two people on this podcast with me
Chris Grant, the CEO andco-founder of Unyote, and
Charlie Crisp, general managerfor Unyoked.
Not everyone wants to, or hasthe ability to, be able to walk
five days to get that level ofnature or, you know, want to
sleep in a hut next to an oldmate snoring next to you in a
cot or even eat you knowfreeze-dried beef bourguignon
(00:39):
for four days straight too.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That kind of was the spark, I guess, and it kind of
reminded me of that sort ofpassion I had from a child, even
from primary school.
But I thought what this is.
It actually addresses a definedproblem, and I think that
there's a lot of people in NewZealand and a lot of people
around the world that areburning out without even
realising it, and I think thiswas the answer for me.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Getting that insight.
Whether it's a think week,whether it's a full week,
whether it's a day or two, justgetting off the grid and
becoming one again with nature,you just make better decisions.
You get a better insight.
Hey everybody, it's GregSheehan.
Welcome to my podcast, whereyou will hear from a range of
(01:21):
guests, including those from thestartup world and those that
have had incredibly interestinglives and some stories to tell.
I would really appreciate it ifyou could hit the follow button
and share this amongst yourfriends, but, as you know, time
is limited, so let's get on withit and hear from our next guest
, my guest today.
I've actually got two people onthis podcast with me Chris Grant
(01:45):
, the CEO and co-founder ofUnyoked, and Charlie Crisp,
general manager for Unyoked.
I actually met Charlie inTauranga, new Zealand, a month
or two back and it was kind ofcoincidental.
We bumped into each other in acafe and we were aware of one
another and then we had a propercoffee and Charlie was just
telling me a little bit aboutwhat he does for a living and he
(02:08):
was telling me all aboutUnyoked, and we'll talk about
that as we get into this episode.
I was actually I've got to sayI was actually a kind of huge
convert, just a natural convert.
When you understand whatUnyoked is all about, I just
couldn't.
In fact, I couldn't get enoughof it.
I kept saying to Charlie, Idon't need convincing, I just
absolutely love this concept forpeople who are busy, people who
(02:30):
need time out for whateverreason, particularly those in
the startup community who arekind of in that hustle and grind
.
So a couple of days ago I wentand experienced this for myself
and I went to a cabin inKawakawa Bay, just southeast of
Auckland in New Zealand, andexperienced it for myself and
honestly, it was outstanding.
(02:51):
So two nights in this cabin,everything that you could
possibly want there, likebeautiful bed, beautiful linen,
all of the kind of nice coffeesand wines, cooking on an open
fire, opening windows at nightand seeing a sky that was full
of stars the only sound youcould hear were the birds and a
(03:12):
creek that was running adjacentto the property.
Guys, I want to say thank youfor that, because it was an
incredible experience.
Charlie, I met you, as I say, amonth or so ago.
How did you get involved inUnyoked?
And then we'll throw across toChris and talk about the
founding of Unyoked.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, thanks very much for having both of us.
Greg Really appreciate being onthe show.
My story begins.
I grew up in a small sheep andbeef farm in Te Puna on the
outskirts of Tauranga, and I wasactually very fortunate to have
an outdoors environment that Icould play and thrive in with
friends and family and a lot ofcamping and hiking and things,
and also went to a rural primaryschool up.
(03:49):
In that the teachers werereally inspirational and
inspired and encouraged us tospend time in nature.
And then, you know, I sort offollowed that sort of standard
path of high school and actuallywent to high school in Sydney
where I met Chris and Cam overthere through, you know, various
social occasions and also Ithink we met each other a few
times on the basketball court,chris, and had some good battles
(04:11):
.
And then I actually ended upback in New Zealand and went to
Targo University and did acouple of degrees there and got
involved in a couple of smallmedical startups after that and
went back to Australia and kindof kept up the relationship with
the boys over there and then,like many of us, was really
chasing that kind of ambition inthe corporate world and that
sort of drive to succeed, and Ididn't realize it at the time.
(04:34):
But I guess I was gettingpretty burnt out and you know, I
was becoming a sort of aproduct of that kind of
corporate environment and it wasstarting to have kind of a
different impact on my life.
I was sort of prioritizing thewrong things and worried about
things that weren't in mycontrol, and so I got to that
kind of point of, wow, thisisn't really sustainable, it's
(04:55):
not really conducive to me beinghealthy or happy.
So you know, in order to getaway from that environment, you
just have to sort of hit theroad sometimes or do have a
pivot and go somewhere else.
So I actually then took offoverseas and sold my car and
ended up buying a caravan in theStates and then traveled down
through the States and CentralAmerica, basically surfing and
drinking a bit of rum and justbeing a bit of a lad.
(05:16):
And then, you know, after a fewmonths of that, I actually kind
of craved and missed the kindof structure and routine.
So I moved back to New Zealandand got back into that corporate
realm and it wasn't long beforethose habits started picking
back up again and I was justgrinding really hard and
adulting, I think, in a way, andsaving money to buy a house.
And you know I did that for twoor three years and managed to
(05:39):
scrape together some cash andbought a house.
And then the pandemic hit.
And I think three days after Isigned the papers for my house I
got an email from the directorsof the company I was working
with saying, hey, sorry, butyou've been redundant.
So it was kind of like, oh, sitback.
I was fortunate enough to getanother job.
But in that sort of grace period, you know, a group of friends
and I got together and decidedwe'd do a bit of an outdoor
(06:02):
experience and a hike.
And we actually decided to goto the Heafy Track down off the
west coast of New Zealand andyou know, if anyone's done that,
it's a pretty special part ofthe world.
The landscape's spectacular andit was just incredibly
impactful for me.
And I got about two days in andI kind of had that realisation,
you know, amongst one of them,standing on the decks of the hut
(06:24):
, looking out over the kind ofalpine tussock, and you'd have
that tingle on the back of yourneck, feeling that kind of
inhalation of really fresh air,and that perspective change when
you're looking into that reallybroad landscape and I was kind
of thinking, man, like this isneeded.
We need this more in our life,and I think this is the
counterweight to that stress andthe counterweight to that
(06:45):
pressure that many of us are inwithout even realizing it.
But I guess I thought to myself,like how could we make this
more accessible to people andhave a better level of amenity,
but make it easier for people toaccess and weave into their
routines?
You know, not everyone wants toor has the ability to be able
to walk five days to get thatlevel of nature.
(07:05):
Or, you know, want to sleep ina hut next to an old maid
snoring next to you in a cot, oreven eat you know, freeze dried
beef, bourbon johns, for fourdays straight too.
That kind of was the spark, Iguess, and it kind of reminded
me of that sort of passion I hadfrom a child, even from primary
school.
But I thought what this is isit actually addresses a defined
(07:25):
problem, and I think thatthere's a lot of people in new
zealand and a lot of peoplearound the world that are
burning out without evenrealizing it, and I think this
was the answer for me.
So I got back home and I kind oflooked into a few of the stats
around burnout and and thingslike that.
It was amazing how connectedpeople are and how much time
they spend on the screen.
I think the average kiwi spendsclose to you know they unlock
(07:48):
their phone eight times everyhour, which is, you know that's
roughly eight minutes a day, andyou know we're spending six
hours on average dependinglifetime at 17 years looking at
a screen.
So I got I got back in touchwith with chris and cam and I
was.
I'd heard that they were doingsomething along the lines of
creating a business that waskind of an outdoors on-demand
service with these beautifullittle cabins, these curated
(08:10):
cabins, and I did a bit ofresearch and found out that what
they were doing was actuallyexactly what I wanted to do and
had a passion in doing so.
I called up Chris and Cam.
I was like, hey, boys, I thinkyou've got a great solution here
.
How can we bring this to NewZealand and how can I help
facilitate more Kiwis to getinto nature more often and
easier?
So that's kind of how I gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So what year is this?
What year are we talking abouthere, because I know Anyoke was
started, sort of 2016.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, so this would have been.
It was probably about 2020, Ithink that I kind of got
involved with the boys Is thatright, chris?
So 2019?
I kind of got involved with theboys.
So right, chris, so 2019, Ithink.
And then it was about 2020 thatwe kind of started to flesh it
out a bit more.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, I'll tell you, it's the first time in 2019,
yeah, yeah, that's a great segueacross to you, Chris.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Chris, you and Cam obviously co-founded this.
Before we sort of talk abouthow you got started with,
Unyoked a little bit of abackground from you and your
early origin story.
Were you one of those kids whogrew up always wanting to be an
entrepreneur?
I saw that you studiedmarketing and finance and that
(09:13):
sort of thing, but were you anentrepreneur from the get-go?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's a good question I'd always liked doing things
outside the box.
I always had a hunger to learn,a real sharp curiosity curiosity
.
It became pretty clear early onthat, yes, you know, my brother
and I wanted to to break out ofthe corporate world and build
something for ourself.
I don't know when that you knowwhen you could could say that I
transitioned to an entrepreneur.
(09:38):
You know, from 12 years old Iwas doing paper runs and working
, and our dad is fairlyentrepreneurial, or at least
adventurous in his choices.
So yeah, I think you could sayI had a spark from early on.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
And then so what was the origin story for you and Cam
?
Getting started with Unyoked,did you have a similar kind of
moment to the one that Charliehad around the need for
something like this?
What was the origin of that?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, I think that's why Unyog's been able to be so
successful.
I think because my origin storyis very similar to Charlie's
and I think that a lot of otherpeople have that same point that
they're reaching.
So yeah, you know, I studiedmarketing finance, as you
mentioned.
I moved into the corporateworld.
I worked for Woolworths, one ofAustralia's biggest companies
(10:25):
in the marketing department.
That's sort of where I realisednot for me.
Then I moved to a fast-growthstartup out of the US based in
Sydney, and then that took me toAsia and there I sort of built
up the skill set and theexperience that I've lent with
Unyote the sort of catalyst wasa similar piece to Charlie.
(10:46):
It was not living the life thatI'd grown up living.
You know, we moved aroundAustralia.
I was born in the NorthernTerritory.
We spent a lot of time campingand hiking and mucking around
outdoors and at the time wedidn't know that the nature was
having an effect on us, that itwas, but we just enjoyed it.
But once you took that out andyou know I was working in
Singapore and my brother wasworking for one of the
(11:06):
Australia's largest banks and wewere talking about it we were
feeling that same friction,charlie, was that we're getting
burnt out.
We're spending so much time onour computer, we're spending so
much time in the city, too muchtime around lights and pollution
, that we're feeling shitty forit and what's missing that time
in nature.
And we were doing that.
But we were doing one trip ayear, you know, going to exotic
(11:28):
places and spending our leavethat we had on this one trip,
but then you'd come back feelingworse for a year to have a
mountain of emails stacking up.
So that problem, which we'velearned, is a universal one, or
fairly universal one, for peopleliving and working in urban
areas.
Yeah, was the driver, and tohave a solution for ourselves
was the first step.
So my brother and Ibootstrapped a couple of cabins.
(11:51):
We worked with some friendsfrom uni to, at the time, a tiny
house, which is sort of themode that we chose because it's
transportable.
They didn't exist in Australiaor New Zealand.
We worked with a Bulgarianarchitect that we found online
who'd built one, and spoke to acouple of people in the US.
And then, yeah, with somefriends from uni, patched
(12:12):
together the first couple ofcabins, sent out 10,000
postcards, went and dawned offto find some land partners to
work with.
So, for anyone who's not fullyacross our model, we unlock
private properties or propertiesheld by organisations,
government institutions,not-for-profits, anyone who has
access to large wilderness areasthat are perhaps being
(12:35):
underutilised.
As wild as possible is what welook like, and then we can
unlock these, you know, givethem back to the public in a
sense, make them accessibleagain, again and then put hotel
level accommodation andamenities in there.
But it's all off-grid, it's alllow touch, it's all about
composting toilet, but we uselocal water sources so we can
(12:56):
get this amenity into somewherethat had previously been
unlocked and you know had alsobeen inaccessible.
You know you had to hike inthere with a tent, but now we
unlock it and then the purposeis to help people then access
the benefits of nature, get outof the city, get away from that
friction that we were feeling,spend two days in nature and the
science around it is compelling.
(13:18):
It shows that your cortisollevels will decrease, heart rate
will decrease, yourinflammation markers will go
down, you can think better,you're more creative, you're
happier, you feel more connectedwith other people.
It's intense, the bucket ofpositive interactions that
happen to your body when youspend time in anxious.
So yeah, our role is aneducator around that and then a
(13:41):
conduit to be able to connectpeople and make it easily
accessible.
So that's a long-wind be ableto connect people and make it
easily accessible.
So that's a long-winded answerto how did we start.
But that's it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, that's awesome.
And so you got started with acouple of cabins yourself and
I'm imagining you probablyknocked up a website and started
to promote it once you had somesites that you could use.
Imagining it's fairly capitalintensive to get these cabins.
How did you get around that?
Did you raise money?
How did that work?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So we bootstrapped the firstcouple ourselves and, you know,
did them on a dime, so to speak.
And then I built a WordPresswebsite, at the time seeded an
article in a publication calledConcrete Playground, which was a
sort of millennial popularpublication here.
They sort of dropped the launcharticle and then we brought
(14:30):
their website down briefly for afew minutes and it was their
most popular article in years.
And that was sort of the pointthat we were like okay, we're
onto something here, there is ademand for this and we're going
to need to find more capital,that there is a demand for this
and we're going to need to findmore capital.
(14:51):
So we were lucky enough to havea few sort of enterprising angel
investors reach out to usthrough that first tranche of
media.
So that gave us the firstlittle lick of capital.
It wasn't quite enough for usto quit our day jobs at the time
, so we were still workingcorporate roles and then
evenings and weekends, you know,heading out to the cabin to
clean, composting toilets.
But from those firstconnections there's a couple of
(15:11):
couple of first players there.
The networking began and that'sreally how we've funded the
business.
Since then we've raised over 45million or so to date.
It's just been.
Those first couple of peopleintroduced us to five people.
Each first couple of peopleintroduced us to five people
each and those five peopleintroduced us to five people
each and there's been a lot ofconversations, a lot of wheeling
and dealing, but that'sessentially how we've handled it
(15:34):
.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And so has that capital been raised?
You know, like you've got a captable with a lot of different
investors on, or have theyfunded it in some other way?
That's not, you know, directlytaking share capital in the
company.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
We've sort of explored and evolved a number of
different capital modes overthe journey.
So we do have a large cap tableof individual shareholders.
For the first four or fiveyears of the business, the
largest investment, singleinvestment, would have been a
couple of hundred thousand, andyou know we would have had a lot
more in the sort of 50,000 to25,000 range.
(16:06):
So we did have to deal with alot of people, but that was also
something that in hindsightwe've said was a benefit, gave
us access to the informaladvisory board and we had all of
these sort of proponents of thebusiness at this sort of level
of high net worth individual andit gave us networks and skills
(16:28):
that we wouldn't have had accessto potentially and also gave us
a bit more room to findourselves.
If we'd gone with one largeinvestor at the beginning giving
away a larger chunk of thebusiness, we would have had to
be beholden to them and how theywant to grow the business.
So we've been able to grow it abit more organically because of
that route.
So, yeah, we took a lot ofsmaller checks from a lot of
(16:53):
great people, and then we'vealso done a crowdfund to get our
community involved, which wasas much a marketing initiative,
as it was a fundraising one.
So you know, the idea was tocreate some brand evangelists
and have people invest in thebusiness who are also using the
business and the product.
And then you know we've broughton venture debt, we've got
(17:15):
private equity now.
So you know we've sort of runthe gambit.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And excuse the naivety, but because you have
got a lot of investors on thecap table, both through the
crowdfunding approach and directapproach and networking etc.
Does that mean that you haverequirements around being
somewhat almost not necessarilypublicly listed, but just a
higher reporting requirementbecause you've just got more
people in there on the cap table?
(17:41):
Yeah, you do have to becreative people in there on the
cap table.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, you do have to be creative.
There's, I think, what a beartrust where you can group people
together into the one entityand as long as those people are
happy to do that, then theyappear as one, you know, on the
cap table instead of many.
So we've we've leveraged thatas as we've hit that marker of
50 plus.
The crowd fund works a littlebit similar to that, but it also
has sort of newer legislationaround it that does make it less
(18:06):
onerous.
So, you know, our reporting toour board and our shareholders
already sort of hits anyrequirements, so it's not
something that should be shiedaway from.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't think for that purpose yeah, and tell me a
little bit about the journey ofgrowing the company.
So you know the two of you, soyour brothers you were saying
you and Cam, so your brothersyou start the company, you start
adding cabins and that starts,you know, meaning that you've
got more customers, you've gotmore need to hire staff, et
cetera.
That journey over the lasteight years, how's that gone in
(18:38):
terms of, you know, growing thatout and the changing, changing
nature of being a co-founder anda CEO of a company that's
growing?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, I mean it keeps us guessing, which we love.
So my brother it's not just mybrother, my twin brother, cam so
I think that's been a blessing,the fact that we can put
ourselves into this sort ofpressure cooker environment that
we know factually tests a lotof co-founders and a lot of
co-founders can't take the heatand it ends up with a broken
(19:07):
relationship and you know it'sone of the largest reasons that
startups fail.
So us being twins, although youknow it might mean more
agreements or disagreements, itmeans that we can't ultimately
break up because we were borntogether.
So that has helped that journey.
And, yeah, as the businessgrows and we get more customers
(19:27):
and more employees, we alwaysCharlie knows this analogy talk
about growing a startup as goingup steps.
You know it's not your standardline graph that just goes up
diagonal, it's steps, and so youknow you'll be on the plateau
and you know you'll be cruisingand everything will be great.
But then you're going to hitthat next step and you're going
to have to go straight up andthat's when we've got to, you
(19:49):
know, find new employees for newskills, for new stages of the
business, or we've got to growour customer base at a faster
rate than we're rolling outcabins, because we've just
brought on new investments, sowe're rolling cabins out.
The marketing has a three tosix-month lead time, so really
we've got to start thatpreviously.
So you know, there's all sortsof learnings along the way, but
with that step analogy we'vebeen able to sort of take it as
(20:12):
it comes.
And you know, when we know wehit an up step, that's just
we've got to knuckle down andwork hard on it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
And I'm imagining that.
You know, like any otherstartup founder, you have stress
and you have almost a desireand a need to go and use your
own product.
Can you get away by going andusing an unyoke cabin yourself?
Do you get away?
Or do you because you'reliterally living inside your own
product?
(20:39):
At that point you're like, well, we can't really escape it and
you notice something that youneed to change or you think of
an idea.
How does that work?
Do you use them for thatpurpose?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I do, I do actually I use them for that purpose.
I do, I do.
Actually, I use them for a fewpurposes.
The purpose I tend to use themfor most is the creative
environment, and so I use it togo there to tackle something.
You know, I had a presentationat a 1,000-person conference
late last year and prior to thatI went and spent four days in
(21:08):
one of the cabins and I broughtmy post-it notes and my
whiteboard markers and I wasriding on the on the glass doors
and then I was going for for ahike and I was coming back and
the science around what spendingtime in it can do for your
creative and your criticalproblem solving is really
interesting and I know it to betrue.
So you know the same way tostart a year off, I go down
there and I spend three days andthe first part's just.
(21:32):
The first day is just sort ofpeeling back the stress, and
then the second day is lookingat my past year retrospectively
and then the third day islooking at the year coming and
setting my goals.
So I find it really usefulusing it for those instances and
then definitely I just go outthere to chill out.
You know I met Charlie andthose kawakawa bay ones.
Earlier this year we had a hottub together there in the forest
(21:54):
.
You know definitely can stillget that experience, even though
my brain is is firing.
I usually do a sweep when Istart and then a sweep when I
end and take all the notes andthen the middle part I can.
I can spend that how you should.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, it's interesting because one of the
reflections I had while I wasthere is it would be because one
of the reflections I had whileI was there is it would be
because the particular locationI had there were three cabins
within walking distance of oneanother, albeit you can't see
the other cabins and you feelincredibly isolated and alone,
which is so awesome, but youcould use it as some sort of
team retreat, because you couldhave a couple of people in one
(22:29):
cabin, a couple of people inanother and you could then, you
know, spend time alone, but youcould also get together in the
evenings around the campfire, etcetera.
Pretty cool.
So give us a sense of size andscale now.
You said you've raised $45million.
My understanding is you've gotover 100 cabins now, or am I
well out of date with thatnumber?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh, cabins now, or am I well out of date with that
number?
Oh, yeah, yeah, we're sittingat about 120 or so cabins that
are live.
We've got the number inproduction both in Australia and
we ship to from Australia, newZealand and then in the UK,
where we've got a growing marketas well.
So you know, I've been over inEurope having a look at
potential new markets recentlybut at the moment, yeah, those
are our sort of three coremarkets and we've got a lot of
(23:10):
growth over the next sort of 18months.
You know, our aim is to unlockas many awesome landscapes that
the world has, you know, andmake them accessible to our
community.
So I'd love cabins in all sortsof weird and wonderful places
for you to be able to know thatAnyo can get you access to the
best expression of a landscapethat a country has by yourself.
(23:31):
So you're there, just nature,just birds, just trees, and you
can really experience it.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
What's the hardest part of building a business like
this?
Because it's not a technologybusiness per se.
In fact, it's the antithesis ofthat.
It's something that's designedto get you away from screens and
to connect with ourselves in abetter way.
But no doubt there will stillbe really challenging aspects to
building a business like this.
What have you found to be oneof the hardest things about
building a physical business andI guess, almost like a tourism
(23:59):
business, charlie, you want tojump in.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I guess one of the challenges is localising it
right, like I sort of came onboard with Unyorked and really
wanted to facilitate the sameexperience in New Zealand but
add a lot of different touchpoints to be able to really
authentically engage with thecommunity here but make it Kiwi,
give it some Kiwi substance.
So I think one of thechallenges for New Zealand is
(24:35):
the fact that a lot of Kiwisknow and are aware we have some
of the best landscapes in theworld but I think still spend a
lot their time indoors.
And if we do go into theoutdoors we take that busy
mindset with us and we we loveadventure sports and don't get
me wrong, I mean you can seefrom my office garage background
here I'm also a passion ofadrenaline sports.
But blasting down a chute on asnowboard or going fast down a
mountain on a mountain bike,sure it reduces, you know,
endorphins and adrenaline, butit doesn't necessarily mean that
you come back rested or, youknow, refreshed, or you know,
(24:57):
mentally and physically.
So I think it's it's been alittle bit of a challenge to try
and help people break thatcycle and realize the need to
actually be content, doingnothing at times and just
actually slow down, recalibrate,refresh and how that can impact
your wellness and yourcreativity and your and your
stress and your focus.
Like chris was saying, I thinkthat sort of shift in behavior
(25:18):
is a little bit of a challenge,but we are starting to make some
great inroads with that andpeople are starting to realize
that it's an indispensable partof your routine and that nature
is actually like really goodsolution to a lot of the
pressure you're under in a sortof modern life oh, undoubtedly,
and I know in my own experiencethe best insights I get are when
(25:38):
I'm not at work and I use workalmost at speech marks when I'm
not at a computer, when I'm notat a phone, when I'm not in
civilization, I'm generally outin nature.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm either going for a run or, like I said, I've
experienced your cabin.
So, getting that insightwhether it's a think week,
whether it's a full week,whether it's a day or two, just
getting off the grid andbecoming one again with nature
you just make better decisions.
You get a better insight.
Hey, just let me pause youthere for a second and tell you
(26:10):
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headaches.
Let's get back to the show.
So, in terms of the businesselement of Unyoked, has the most
challenging part been aroundwhat?
Gaining access to land, makingpeople aware of the need to go
and do what we just talked about.
What's the toughest part aboutbuilding the business in that
sense?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I think just to touch on the New Zealand side again,
I think what we also offer isthat ability to provide some
sustainable and passive revenueto landowners.
That's ag cycle resistant.
As I said before, I grew up ona farm and have worked on farms
and understand the pressures ofthat environment, especially as
a really agricultural country,and I think it was a little bit
of a shift in mentality for alot of landowners as well to
(27:34):
understand that this actuallyprovides a really good source of
revenue that is consistent andis regular.
But people are precious oftheir land too.
They don't want strangerswalking over it, especially if
they've got things like cowriedieback disease in the country
and they fear that peopleinterfere with their farming
operations and things likecowrie dieback disease in the
country and they fear thatpeople interfere with their
farming operations and thingslike that, and if there's injury
(27:54):
on farms too.
But I think that once we got afew going, people started to
realize that she was a reallygood sort of additional hustle
or model on your farm to makesome money.
And yeah, that took a littlebit of time, but now we've got
sort of a pipeline of around 500leads and the plan donors want
a cabin.
So you know, I guess that wasone of the early challenges.
Would you agree with that,chris and Ozzy?
(28:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I think we've had various bottlenecks that we've
had to throw over the life cycleof the business for sure, and a
lot of it comes down to uswanting to operate at this sort
of top quality point.
To operate at this sort of topquality point, we don't want to
be doing things that otherpeople can do.
We don't want to be settlingfor just any old paddock or you
(28:37):
know, a small patch of landwhere you can see a house or a
road.
We really only want rawexpressions of nature where you
can fully immerse into.
But it has to be accessible bya two-wheel drive, it has to
have potable water near it, ithas to be beautiful and give you
that tingle on the neck thatCharlie got on his walk when he
first came up with the idea tobring a yoke to New Zealand.
So that's what we want to giveeverybody.
(28:58):
But to be able to do that ittakes a lot.
Out of that 500 properties thatwe've got, we need our team to
go phone, screen them, desktopanalysis, analysis with map
overlays and topographical maps,and then we need to go out and
do site visits and track theproperty and mark potential
cabins and then do noise andsite tests to make sure that you
can't see or hear from thoselocations, and then there's all
(29:22):
sorts of preparation and set upand that goes into it.
So being able to do that on alarge scale across three
countries has definitely had itsdifficulty, but it's also one
of the most fun parts aboutbuilding the business as well is
that we get to see all of theseawesome properties and try and
find these hidden gems oflocations that can create that
(29:42):
tingle and get people excited.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
One of the things I was most impressed about was how
you had thought of all of thelittle details so to give
listeners some sort of sense ofthe experience.
So the cabin it is out of sightof other people so you're not
going to get looked on by others.
Yet you are close so, as yousaid, two-wheel drive access you
(30:05):
can take your car in there.
It was only a really short walkinto this lovely secluded place
.
The creek runs through.
It had a bit of an elevatedaspect, so the view across the
canopy of the tree line wasfantastic.
The sun and the way the suncomes in is superb.
It's solar powered and yet neverran out of power.
(30:25):
There always seemed to beenough power there.
You had even just things likeorganic soaps and things like
that to use wine.
Everything was there and anincredibly comfortable bed.
So I know you've also builtpartnerships with other
suppliers.
So, for example, there wasenamel cups and plates, et
cetera, which made that sort ofexperience even more authentic.
(30:46):
Sleepy head on the bed.
The linen was good.
How long did it take you beforeyou started building
partnerships with othersuppliers into the Unyoked
experience?
Was that something that you setout to do from the get-go when
you got the first couple ofcabins.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, or is that something that's evolved?
From an origin perspective?
It was something that we setabout really early on, namely
because it's less capital outlayfor us if we can get a
partnership to provide themattresses, the coffee and the
amenities.
We've been lucky enough thatwe've had a lot of companies
approach us for these sort ofpartnerships and so we can
(31:23):
screen them and look for thebest quality that will give our
customers the best possibleexperience.
So, yeah, it's been somethingthat we've said about from the
beginning, not just the costbenefits, but also the reach
benefits.
You know, when you're a growingbusiness and you can partner
with another business and thenyou can help cross-pollinate
your customer pools and, youknow, do posts on each other's
(31:44):
channels and things like that,it's a big help.
So I think it's a great littlestrategy.
It helps you network andcollaborate and meet awesome
people, you know, withinancillary industries as well.
So, yeah, from the get-go we'vehad that approach.
We've got what we call thelittle big things.
You know we put a lot of effortinto those elements in the
(32:04):
cabin.
It's all around, helping youslow down, helping juxtapose
against your normal life.
Like you would assume, there'sa hand and coffee grinder.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You've got to put your beans in.
And it's a little bit of aneffort, but that's the point.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
So you've got to sit there and grind a couple of
coffees worth of beans andyou're just sitting there doing
that.
You're not putting a pod into amachine, then putting the pod
into the landfill, you're justthere grinding raw beans into
powder.
So there's a lot of elementsthat we put into the cabin with
thought designed for thatpurpose yeah, and like things
(32:39):
like cast iron.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
You know skillets and frying pans that were just so
beautiful to cook with on theopen fire and I was really
impressed.
You had it, and I don't evenknow what you call it, but
there's like the hot tray andthe grill pivots above the
fireplace so you can actuallyset the cooking temperature
while you're cooking.
I thought that was.
I wish I'd known about thatyears ago, when I had a little
(33:01):
bit of an outdoor fire pit athome, because they're really
cool.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, it's about maximizing the environment.
As Chris touched on earlier,it's the cabin's, the
facilitator and all the littletiny pieces of intentionality
are curated for the purpose ofmaximizing how you feel in that
environment and what you get outof it and what you take home
with you.
And, as Chris mentioned, allthe little products and all the
little things have been given alot of focus with clear purpose
(33:28):
to help you do that and that arerelatable and are localized.
You know that people canassociate with and bring more
authenticity to the overallexperience.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Exactly those custom pans you mentioned.
That's Ironclad Co.
They're a great New Zealandbusiness.
You know really cool peoplebehind it trying to do something
.
They're trying to buildproducts that last three
generations.
So minimizing wastage, buildingsomething with intent that
lasts is really a message thatresonates with.
(33:59):
You know what we're trying todo with our low touch
experiences.
So, um, yeah, they're the sortof partner that we look for?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
yeah, definitely, and you know that kind of product
also adds to that experience ofour kind of philosophy around
sustainability and helpingeducate around off-grid living
and living more sustainably, andyou know we definitely take
pride in that kind of ethosaround taking steps to protect
things for future generations aswell, so we hope people come
(34:26):
back with a bit more of amindset around that too and how
does it work between you twoguys?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So you know, one of you is a co-founder and one of
you is running the business inNew Zealand as general manager.
I don't know, Charlie, whetheryou also run aspects of the
wider business across Australia,the UK.
But how does that work kind ofday to day, Because there will
be people listening to this whoare thinking of bringing
somebody into the team to takesome of the load.
(34:51):
How does that work at apractical level?
You know you can talk openlyabout this.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
We have a really cool culture at unearthed and that's
what really brought me in.
It's just, it's a great bunchof people that are all heading
in the same trajectory andthere's no ego or superiority or
any of that bullshit.
It's just like we definitelyhave like this one team
mentality that we collaboratereally well.
We are very open andtransparent with each other and,
yeah, we have healthy conflictas well and definitely it's been
(35:17):
.
You know, strategic decisionsor true fight and head on.
But you know, everybody hasthat between markets because
ultimately the audiences areslightly different and there's
cultural nuances.
We are very locked into ourcentral model.
We have, you know, marketingteam and our operations team.
Our supply chain are all veryintegrated and we catch up
regularly.
We have whole team meetings aswell, once every couple of weeks
(35:39):
across four countries I thinkchris, australia, new zealand to
the uk and the philippines.
We all get online and we haveproject steering groups together
.
We all discuss and ultimatelywe're all mates.
Like we catch up and we havereally good team off sites where
we go into nature and we talkstrategy and we figure out
what's working, what doesn'twork.
We inspire the sort ofcreativity and that allows us to
(35:59):
kind of, yeah, I guess, buildthe experience even more for our
community too.
But yeah, it's a model thatworks really well because of the
openness and transparency Ithink.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Does it help that you guys are mates from high school
, or does that almost get in theway because you're like mate,
don't give me that.
You know, don't give me thatbullshit.
I know what you were like whenyou were 16.
Or does it actually?
It's a positive because youknow each other so well and you
can trust one another.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I think it's a positive.
Like, chris and I have like aweekly catch up that we call
just a walk and talk.
So you know it's not even on ascreen, we're not looking at
tasks, we're just chatting andwe check in with each other and
we ask each other about how ourmental health is for the week
and what our families are up toand like what do we do on the
weekend, and then we talk shop.
You know it's not really likehe's my boss, I'm his minion in
(36:43):
new zealand.
It's more of a, I'd say, aneutral hierarchy where we kind
of all hitting in the samedirection and we kind of see
each other on the same sort ofplatform.
Do you, do you agree with that,chris?
Or maybe maybe you don't?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Very much.
So.
That's the.
That's exactly how it'scollaborative.
We're all enjoying what we'redoing and enjoying being around
each other.
And you know it's it's abouthiring the right people and,
like Charlie, he's that rightsort of person for the role.
He's got a positive bias andhe's a can-do sort of guy, you
(37:17):
know, as a as a country starter,which is what he.
He you know that took it whenthere wasn't a business in the
country and he's had to wear alot of hats to get it done and
he's the perfect sort of personfor that.
So I think it's about pickingthe right people.
So it wasn't just becauseCharlie was, it was mate, it was
because he was the right guywith the right skills for this
role.
And then, yeah, having theculture that we do, which keeps
everyone sort of on the leveland everyone has a say, and then
(37:39):
making sure there's structureto it too.
So we've got the right meetingsat the right time, where people
know that that's the time andplace to have that say yeah, it
all works well.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
And is the team fully remote or do you have some sort
of central office somewhere?
Speaker 3 (37:54):
or We've got an office in Sydney and we've got
an office in the UK as well andthen in New Zealand.
We're remote at the moment,although Charlie's over here
quite often and I'm over therequite often, Right?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, and no sort of thoughts of having a head office
in a cabin, right, yeah, and nosort of thoughts of having a
head office in a cabin, which isreally good wi-fi, which is
then probably not off the grid.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Then is it yeah, we've got, we've got maybe our
four original cabins, the ogs,like the couple that cam, and I
did our stuff with some friendsand then the first couple of
prototypes.
After that They've been sort ofsunsetted from normal run but
they're up at one of ourcolleagues' property here
outside Sydney and we go up as ateam and you know we all do
(38:40):
strategic sessions and someoff-sites there.
So you know that's, you knowhalfway there, but I don't think
our full-time office with asmany people as we have these
days.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, exactly, chris.
You've been at the founder gamenow for a while.
Any comments, thoughts, ideasfor other founders on things
they should be?
You know advice you would wantto impart with other founders,
things you've learned along yourjourney that have made a big
difference to you.
Know how you go about buildinga business.
Is there something that you'dwant to share with?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
founders?
That's a good question.
I mean something that comes tomind just because I just touched
on it there with Charlie but ishiring for optimism.
It's something that we made anactive choice to do from early
on, and not blind optimism, buta positive bias.
And so testing your hires forthat for initiative as well, but
(39:34):
for a positive bias, I think,has really enabled us to have
this culture and have the peoplearound us that we enjoy working
with and that, you know, seeproblems as challenges to
overcome, not as issues tocomplain about.
You know that's that's been areal key, I think, to our
success in building the teamthat we've managed to build and,
you know, to the listeners whodon't think they have a positive
key, I think, to our success inbuilding the team that we've
managed to build and to thelisteners who don't think they
(39:55):
have a positive bias, it issomething that I think you can
train and work on, so don'tcount yourself out.
I think stuff like dailygratitude and focusing on the
positives and changing yourlanguage with yourself and
there's some things you can do.
But for a founder, it's a bigbenefit to have those sort of
people in your team and to beable to catch people who might
not be there yet before youbring them on and what are your
respective superpowers?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
for both of you, you know that make a big difference
to building unyoked, and I knowyou're both humble guys, but
what would you say?
Those?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
are, from my perspective, like launching a
company in a newer emergingmarket, as chris mentioned.
You know you have to have adegree of flexibility and wear a
few hats at times and do thingsthat you know, reprioritize
things and, I think,resourcefulness as well.
I think I've had to kind ofadopt a mentality that there's
no point thinking about thethings that you don't have.
You know you should be focusedon what you can do with what
(40:44):
you've got and at times thatmeans just grinding and putting
your head down and getting work.
But also I think it's beenreally important to reach out to
the central team for supportwhen I've needed it as well,
definitely.
And I guess the other thing isthat sort of power of
intentionality that christouched on before with the
experience and you know I read aquote a while ago that people
will forget what you do, they'llforget what you said, but
(41:06):
they'll never forget how youmade them feel.
So for me it's been a realemphasis on focusing on that
experience and how and what sortof sense of belonging people
have when they're engaged in ourcommunity and what they walk
away feeling.
So I think like if you can kindof really focus on curating an
experience or a level ofhospitality, or regardless of
your industry.
(41:26):
If you can make people walkingaway feeling really good about
themselves, you're going to besuccessful in whatever business
you're in.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, I can see the brand that you're building even
just through not just theexperience that you get when you
stay at a cabin, but also justthe way that you do your merch
and your caps and the apparel etcetera.
Are you building a brand thatpeople can really connect with
and it's a brand where, ideally,they had quite a special
(41:56):
experience, maybe a bit of alife-changing moment, and so to
be able to connect with thosesort of times pretty special.
It must be easy, with the widerteam to build the why you know,
like why you guys do this.
It just it feels like it justcomes through your pores for
both of you.
Chris, what about you?
From a superpower?
What do you think makes youknow something about you that
(42:18):
makes unyoked that bit moresuccessful?
Because you're just bloody goodat it?
Speaker 3 (42:22):
it's probably a soft skill similar to to what charlie
mentioned, but I'd say empathy.
The ability to be empathetichas really helped me in my
journey and you know, from theground floor level of
understanding customers to youknow, treating every customer
who's even had a mild orexperience in the early days,
(42:43):
going above and beyond, to thenbeing able to read people and
hire the right people, to beingable to communicate in the right
way with my team and mystakeholders, and in fundraising
.
I think it's been a real skillthat I've been able to lean on
and, yeah, it's helped me get tothis point.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, and in terms of ways that you each get inspired
or get ideas for building thebusiness, are there things that
you've read books, know books,that you've read podcasts, you
listen to music, you know how doyou get a sense of inspiration,
or is it just feeling theproduct?
Like I would imagine that'sactually kind of easy to do with
the product that you have.
(43:21):
But is there something that youguys do to kind of recharge
outside of going and visiting acabin?
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Interacting with nature in any way is good and
that's.
You know we like to championthat it doesn't have to be a
cabin.
So you know I'm often at thebeach I live near the beach, you
know walking or going to thepark.
Yesterday I was driving intothe city to go to a meeting and
I stopped at the Botanic Gardensand had a quick walk around and
then went to my meeting.
So just little cheeky stop-offslike that helped keep me going.
(43:53):
In terms of podcasts and books,I listen to a bit of Jay Shetty
.
He's on purpose, I don't knowif you've come across him.
He interviews interestingpeople and I quite like his sort
of philosophic approach.
I read a bit of sort of history.
I just finished a biography onLeonardo da Vinci which was
really interesting.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
The Walter Isaacson one.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah, fascinating, right, and that junction between
unscience is really somewherethat we're trying to take on the
oath, because there's so muchscience behind nature, but it
also, you know, it is an art,there's a creative side to it,
there's something that you justfeel that you can't explain.
So I resonated with that.
Um.
So yeah, looking to the pastfor ideas for the future is, I
(44:38):
think, something that's that'skey to staying on top of things
fantastic, charlie.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
what about you?
I, um, I had a few yearsexperience in the medical
industry as well, so I alwayslike, quite enjoyed reading the
medical papers around nature'simpact and that kind of proof
that it's the kind of defense orthe prophylactic response at
the top of the cliff as opposedto the ambulance at the bottom.
I've dug deep into heaps ofanecdotal evidence around the
(45:03):
reduction in cortisol levelsit's around 21% per hour spent
in nature.
The impact around your creativeoutput, the ability to sleep
better, the ability to think andimprove your cognitive function
.
So I really enjoy that side ofthings.
I love being in nature as wellmyself.
I mean, I kind of live near thebeach, luckily enough, and also
spend a bit of time in thehills.
(45:23):
I enjoy things like hunting andfishing and diving, not so much
from the killing aspect of itat all, but more so around
harvesting my own food andcooking it and just generally
being out there and using it asa place of reflection.
Also love to read as well.
I read a great book,unreasonable Hospitality,
recently which I highlyrecommend, and it's kind of what
I was touching on before.
(45:43):
Isn't around like putting yourteam and your customer at the
heart of every decision andusing that intentionality to
create an experience.
I think, yeah, it's afascinating read as well.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
It's funny.
You should say that because Ihave just done an interview with
Aaron Ward, who is theco-founder of Ask Nicely, and he
also mentioned that a book hehas just finished reading is
Unreasonable Hospitality.
To anybody listening, I'm notsponsored by the author of
Unreasonable Hospitality, but itsounds like it's a really,
really good book.
It sounds like a fantastic read.
(46:14):
Guys, I'm going to wrap upthere, but just to say that,
charlie, when I first met you,you were so passionate about
what Unyoked does, honestly, youneeded no encouragement to
share what Unyoked is all aboutand what changes it can have on
people's lives, and I didn'tneed any convincing, like I
(46:37):
think.
I felt like I fell over youwith enthusiasm and excitement
for the Unyoked experience and,having just experienced it, it
was truly outstanding.
Like it really was a couple ofnights that were really really
special.
We were super fortunate thatthe weather was good, the stars
were out, cooking fajitas on anopen fire just outstanding.
(47:00):
Doing coffee on an open firewith fresh beans, et cetera, and
, as I say, just hearing the NewZealand bird life listening to
the creek.
It really is amazing.
So for anybody out there,regardless of actually what you
do, a lot of people listening tothis in the startup world.
If you're in the startup worldand you're feeling a bit
frazzled, a bit fried, check outUnyoked.
(47:22):
It's unyokedcom.
So it's just an outstanding,outstanding experience.
I want to thank you guys, notonly for the interview today,
but just what you're doing, whatyou're building, because people
can experience that time out insuch a profound way and
reconnect with themselves, withpeople they love, with their
(47:43):
business ideas, the love fortheir business, whatever it is
that they do.
I certainly need no convincingand if if you're listening to
this, go and check out thewebsite but most importantly now
go and check out an actualcabin and that experience.
So thank you guys really, reallyappreciate it.
That's great, thank you verymuch.
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