July 25, 2024 • 32 mins
Discover the extraordinary journey of Mitchell Pham, a revered figure in New Zealand's tech landscape, as he shares his incredible story of resilience, innovation, and community impact. From escaping a struggling economy in Vietnam to becoming a trailblazing co-founder of CodeHQ, Mitchell's narrative is one of triumph over adversity. As a trustee for the Asia New Zealand Foundation and entrepreneur in residence at the University of Auckland Business School, Mitchell offers an unparalleled perspective on bridging the gap between technology and business.
Through the lens of his personal experiences, Mitchell opens up about the challenges he faced as a refugee and the transformative moments that shaped his career. An influential lecturer sparked his passion for technology, leading to a rewarding journey with CodeHQ, where he has been instrumental in accelerating digital development across various industries. His story is not only about professional achievements but also about his mission to connect people, organizations, and ideas, highlighting his unique ability to make a lasting impact.
Mitchell's dedication extends beyond the tech world, as he passionately works to reunite refugee families through the Auckland Refugee Family Trust. His emotional recount of missing his university graduation due to family separation reveals a deep personal motivation that continues to drive his efforts. From being stateless to receiving the New Zealand Order of Merit, Mitchell's journey is a powerful testament to resilience and determination, promising listeners an inspiring and heartfelt exploration of success, community, and the power of human connection.
You can connect with Mitchell on LinkedIn.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
When you go out there into the world, right, for
God's sake, make an impression,Whatever you do, make an
impression even if it's a badone, because otherwise no one
will know you were ever there.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mitchell is a co-founder, director ambassador
for what is now known as CodeHQ,and you've been doing that for
a few decades now.
He is what you would considerin New Zealand as the OG of the
tech world.
He really is very, very highlythought of.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And sometimes it's not about winning, it's just
about being able to stay in thegames, so to speak, just to
survive long enough to kind ofget to the other side of
whatever the trouble was.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hey everybody, it's Greg Sheehan.
Welcome to my podcast, whereyou will hear from a range of
guests, including those from thestartup world and those that
have had incredibly interestinglives and some stories to tell.
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Now back to the show.
My guest today is Mitchell Pham,and Mitchell was introduced to
me by very well-known founder,janine Granger from Easy Crypto,
and Janine said do you knowMitchell Pham?
I said I do.
(02:09):
I didn't know him personally,but I knew so much about him.
He is what you would considerin New Zealand as the OG of the
tech world.
He really is very, very highlythought of.
Firstly, welcome to the podcast, mitchell.
Thank you, it's great to haveyou here and you're a busy man,
so trying to pin you down in thelast few months has been
(02:30):
challenging because you areinvolved in all sorts of things.
I'm actually going to read someof these things out because I
think it gives the audience asense of just some of the
achievements that you've had.
You are a co-founder, directorambassador for what is now known
as Code HQ, and you've beendoing that for a few decades now
.
You are the trustee and anhonorary advisor for the Asia
(02:51):
New Zealand Foundation.
You're an entrepreneur inresidence at the University of
Auckland Business School.
You are a former co-chair ofKia.
Now, for those who don't knowKia, that's Kiwi expats abroad
and I'm now abroad, so I am nowa newly signed up member of Kia.
I'm very proud to be a part ofthat.
Look, you have a LinkedInprofile.
That is just phenomenal.
(03:12):
You've got something like24,000 followers or something on
LinkedIn and I have never seena profile so full.
You have done a lot and it'simpossible to capture what an
incredible life today, but itfeels like you're just sort of
getting started in many ways aswell.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Are you implied that I still have a lot more to
happen?
I think you do.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'd love to start, though, Mitchell, by just
hearing and we touched on thiswhen we first had a chat I'd
love to hear your early originstory, originally from Vietnam,
but your story of how you got tobe here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Great.
Thank you again, greg, forhaving me on the program.
It's a real privilege.
And you know, I must admit, Iwas a bit ignorant and kind of
didn't know I hadn't come acrossyour program.
But after Janine Granger wenton the program and she, you know
, literally raved about you andshe said, right, I must get on
that program, I must get onthere and share.
So here I am.
(04:06):
Well, it's super cool havingyou here, thank you.
So, just going all the way back,I was originally born in
Vietnam, a place that's nowknown as Ho Chi Minh City, and I
spent my first 12 years inVietnam, growing up with my
family that's my parents, myselfand a younger brother, thu Minh
and my younger sister that's myparents, myself and a younger
brother, truman and my youngersister and we had a very
(04:26):
challenging childhood because atthe time, towards the last few
years of my time there inVietnam, we really struggled.
The economy was a close economy.
It was like a permanentrecession, maybe even depression
.
Life was really tough.
We were not involved with themilitary in any way, we were
(04:49):
just civilians.
But after the end of theVietnam War, the country
plummeted into a very deepeconomic black hole and I
remember not having enough foodto eat as a kid and all of those
challenges.
And so millions and millions ofVietnamese families tried to
escape Vietnam.
Not many made it outsuccessfully and for those who
(05:12):
did not, many actually survivedthe journey, and in my case, my
family tried three times.
The third time I successfullygot out, but without my parents
and siblings.
I ended up and nearly diedseveral times at sea the South
China Sea.
Eventually, my boat was rescuedby an oil rig operation in
Indonesia.
I ended up in four refugeecamps in Indonesia over the
(05:36):
period of two years before Ieventually arrived in New
Zealand in 1985.
Coming up, what is it July now?
So next month it will be 39years in New Zealand.
I Coming up, what is it Julynow?
So next month it will be 39years in New Zealand.
And I arrived here as ateenager, and so again, you know
, I think the first 10 years wasreally really difficult
Adjusting to the culture, theclimate and also, you know,
(05:58):
adjusting to being a teenager aswell, wasn't easy.
But yeah, it took me about 10years to eventually feel like I
belong and I felt like a Kiwi.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What was your English like at that time, when you
first arrived?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I started to learn English when I was in Vietnam,
just extracurricularafter-school classes, and then I
learned a bit more in a moreconcentrated environment in the
refugee camps, which was whereyou could learn languages of the
countries that you wanted to goto.
And then I really learned therest in New Zealand, once you're
kind of fully immersed in anEnglish-speaking country.
(06:30):
So I had some English.
That wasn't strong, but it wasenough to kind of get me around
the school yard and enough tokind of propel me through school
and end up in university.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Were you, therefore, because of the background,
because of almost the story ofnearly dying and being at sea
and I can imagine that thatlevel of hardship meant that
maybe you could then tackleanything that you felt that you
could do.
Were you therefore just drivenin a way that perhaps many other
(07:01):
young people at the timeweren't?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I can't speak for other young people, but I'd be
the third generation to face thechallenges the country went
through.
The Vietnam War the American War, as it's called in Vietnam was
just then the latest of a longhistory of challenges.
And so the things that we choseto do and the things that we
(07:23):
strive for and struggle toovercome, some of these choices
were made by the circumstances.
As in, you don't have a choiceand you just have to get on and
face these challenges and findways to get through and to
survive.
And sometimes it's not aboutwinning, it's just about being
able to stay in the game, so tospeak.
(07:44):
And sometimes it's not aboutwinning, it's just about being
able to stay in the game, so tospeak, just to survive long
enough to kind of get through tothe other side of whatever the
trouble was.
And so I think that was morekind of growing up and having an
early life journey where youdon't really think about those
things, you just simply respondto the situations, the hands
that you're dealt with, so tospeak, and it wasn't about being
(08:05):
tough, it was just simply aboutnecessity.
It was just a necessity tosurvive.
That, over time, became a partof my personality and it kind of
reinforced the way I look atthings and the way I approach
things and the way I deal withthings that either don't work
out or are outside of my control.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, you have done so many things in your career,
but I'd be keen to sort ofunderstand how you got involved
in tech.
What was the early sort oforigin in getting involved in
the technology industry?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Oh, repeatedly over the decades I seemed to get
involved in things that Iinitially told myself that I
didn't want to, or I wasinitially not interested in.
It's quite strange.
So I was never interested incomputer studies at school.
I was not interested incomputer science.
At university I took a businessdirection and studied commerce.
(09:00):
But something happened in thefirst year I was at university
in an information systemslecture and it was just first
year, so everything was verybasic.
It was just all aboutpossibilities really, rather
than knowledge.
But I had an incredible lecturerand I've always been influenced
and inspired by others prettymuch.
(09:22):
I can't really claim any creditfor anything myself, and this
is an example of that where thislecturer he wasn't teaching
technology per se and he wasn'tteaching business per se either,
but he connected the dotsbetween the two and he talked
about the possibilities andafter about three lectures I was
(09:44):
completely hooked.
I could visualize, I couldimagine how information
technology would and indeedafter 30 years proven to change
business completely, and notonly business right entire
industries, economy andsocieties as well.
It was really inspiring and Ithink that got me hope.
(10:07):
You know it is.
I'm always motivated much, muchmore by the why rather than the
what and the how, and theneither I figure out the what and
the how or I actually worktogether with people who are far
smarter than myself and betterthan myself to be able to figure
those things out and do themreally well, because none of the
(10:29):
so-called successes that Imight be credited for really was
achieved on my own.
It's always been because I hadreally amazing people and teams
I worked with and organizationsthat I was part of.
So that's probably the longanswer to your question.
That was how I ended up in tech, and the rest is history, as
(10:51):
they say.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And if you look at that history and you have just
done so many things like it's aphenomenal number of things that
you've achieved.
What is it that you most enjoyabout this industry and what you
do Like?
What is it?
I mean, you talk about people,and I'm going to take that as a
given working with great people,but what area of the industry
(11:13):
do you particularly love?
Do you love being a problemsolver?
Do you love being an investor?
Do you love being an advisorboard member, an ambassador?
What is it?
What is it that you really lovedoing.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I think to narrow it down to one thing is probably
too hard for me to do, so I'llanswer your question in a
slightly different way.
As many things as you might seelisted, I've only been doing
two things, really, and it'sbecause I'm only passionate
about two things.
One is tech, but it's not thetechnology I'm passionate about.
It's how technology impactsbusinesses, industries,
(11:47):
economies and societies, and themore I see the impact, the more
I'm driven to be part of it, tocontribute to it, to accelerate
it and so forth.
So that's one of my two corepassions that are very, very
personal to me, and for me it'svery difficult to separate
business and personal when itcomes to the why, when it comes
(12:07):
to the motivation.
So one of the only two thingsI've been doing the last 30
years or so is that, thatpassion for tech.
The other is passion for NewZealand's opportunity in Asia.
So if you look at everythingI've done, whether listed or not
, they fall into either of thosetwo camps and literally nothing
(12:32):
else.
Now, occasionally, some thingsI do ended up fitting into both
camps at the same time, andthat's when there's extra magic,
like working with some techcompanies that want to expand
into Asia, I was like, wow, thisis a cool space, you know, that
combines both of my passions.
I don't need both to be presentright for me to be driven about
(12:53):
it.
Those are the two passions.
But why am I driven to do allthese things in the first place
in following those two passions?
Because I could follow thosetwo passions in different ways.
But because I could followthose two passions in different
ways, that's what I've done.
I think it just goes back to howI and my siblings were raised
by our parents.
We've always been raised togrow in advance and become
productive citizens of whicheversociety that we live in, and to
(13:18):
also basically be part ofthings that are much bigger than
ourselves and make sure that wemake an impact when we're there
.
Right?
My most favorite is that.
One is from Mark Twain and hewrote that two most important
days in your life are the daythat you were born and the day
that you discovered why.
That is super profound.
And then, when I was in mysixth form chemistry class back
(13:42):
at school, my then chemistryteacher, who was teaching his
very final year before heretired and he said oh, I'm
going to miss teaching you, kids, I want to leave you with a
piece of advice that hopefullyyou will one day understand.
And we were all listening.
He said look, when you go outthere into the world, right for
God's sake, make an impression.
(14:03):
Whatever you do, make animpression even if it's a bad
one, because otherwise no onewill know you were ever there.
And so somewhere between thosetwo sayings are pretty much the
reason behind everything I do.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
It's super clear when you talk about those two things
, one being the power oftechnology and the second one
being the connection betweenAsia and New Zealand.
Where do you think theAsian-Kiwi relationship is?
How do you see that now?
Do you think it's in a goodplace generally?
There's always more work to do,right.
Where do you see that?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, it's a very important question.
I've been involved with theAsian-New Zealand Foundation for
about 17, coming on to 18 yearsnow in different roles, and the
organization's been around for30 years this year, I think.
So I think 20 years ago thelevel of connection between New
(14:56):
Zealand and Asia, I would say itwas an infant, and 20 years
later now it's a toddler, right.
So maybe that gives you a senseof I don't mean much more work,
but actually it's much moreopportunity as well.
Right, we have ahead of us andI'm even more excited about that
now, nearly 20 years later,than when I started.
(15:18):
So it's an exciting time forNew Zealand and the rest of APAC
.
It's an exciting time forAsians who live in New Zealand
and, yeah, so it's timeopportunity, I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And if you look at the things that you've done in
your career to date, what is itthat you look back on with the
most fondness, Like the thingthat you?
I mean, it might not even besomething necessarily that's a
highlight on LinkedIn, but it'ssomething that you look back on
and maybe you're still involvedin it, but you look on it really
fondly and I know I'm makingyou choose, oh if there is one
(15:53):
thing Well, I think the longestrunning thing then how about
that?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I don't like having favorites, because then it makes
everybody else feel lessimportant.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I knew you'd say that .
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Too hard, right?
So let's flip it and say, right, okay, what have you been
involved with for the longest?
And you're still involved withit, because clearly you must
still be passionate about it.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
You'd make a great politician Mitchell.
You really would oh okay, you'dgive me another idea.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
There you go.
It's another idea for you Maybethat's the case.
Then it's CodeHQ, what used tobe known as the Elgin Software
Group, and for me it is aperfect example.
And I know it's a bit unfair,because this example I created
(16:37):
it or I co-created it and otherexamples, people and
organizations and projects andtechnology that I've worked with
I didn't create and control asmuch as this one, but this is a
tech company that is dedicatedto help New Zealand businesses
accelerate their digitaldevelopment right, so that in
(16:59):
itself is a very strong purposethat I've always felt aligned
with, and so it's really awesomebecause it is a company that
has allowed me to be able toengage with so many different
industries over the last threedecades.
You know, financial servicesand healthcare and education,
supply chain services and allthat.
It's been wonderful.
That's one part of it, and so itcontributes to that whole kind
(17:22):
of passion about the impact oftech on businesses and
industries, but at the same time, because for nearly 20 years
now, 19 years now we've had avery successful extension to the
business back into Vietnam.
So we have sort of like a 30, 70split now in terms of the
headcount in the businessoperating out of Auckland and my
(17:45):
other office in Ho Chi MinhCity and that, as you can see,
brings the Asia and New Zealandpart dimension into the mix.
And not only that Vietnam is mycountry of origin and Ho Chi
Minh City is where my parentsstill live.
So when you look at this onesingle business and, yes, sure,
your business is what you makeof it, right, but still I am
(18:09):
infinitely grateful that I havebeen able to create and have had
a lot of amazing people jointhe company and build and grow
to what it is today that reallyrepresents so many parts of me
as a person.
Even though now, for the lastthree plus years, I've stepped
(18:29):
away from running the businessand being part of the leadership
team, I still feel infinitelyconnected with the company and
the people in it.
I'm heading up to Vietnam againand joining the team up there
next week for a team buildingexercise in Ho Chi Minh City.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
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(19:28):
Let's get back to the show.
It's very powerful, actually,and what would you say is your
superpower?
What are you supremely good at?
And I know you're a humble guy,but there will be something
that you would look at and saythat's your key strengths.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Oh gosh.
Well, first of all disclaimerI'm not good at anything.
So nobody believes that I justwant to set the expectation, set
the value.
But what I'm more natural at, Ithink, is connecting with
people, being able to developideas.
I'm attracted to problems and Iproblem solve entrepreneurially
(20:05):
.
So I connect people, I connectorganizations, I connect ideas.
I figure out how you kind ofbring all the pieces together to
create a business you know andwork with others to kind of
build and grow that.
I'm kind of naturally wide thatway.
I think if you can call thatbeing good at something, it's
very organic.
Everything I've done is kind of, in a way, just I've done many
(20:27):
business plans but never had acareer plan.
I don't know how to interviewfor a job.
I see a problem and if I careabout it, I do something about
it.
That seems to be the one thingthat connects all of the
seemingly different together noplans, still don't have a plan.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And what about regrets?
Are there things across yourcareer that you regret?
Ooh, it's a heavier one.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
It's a heavier one.
Actually, your other questionkind of alluded to that in my
mind.
What do you think about that?
Actually, I don't think a lotabout what might have been
achieved, but I do replay in mymind kind of mistakes and errors
I've made, whether or notconsciously or unconsciously
kind of made.
When you are an entrepreneur andyou operate in an innovation
(21:17):
space it's mostly trial anderror.
You can make a lot of mistakes,or you can.
You know some of it is makingmistakes.
Some of it is discovery right,discovery journey.
You know some of those makingmistakes, some of the discovery
right, discovery journey.
You know discovering that somethings don't work or something,
and the right certain, that sortof thing, and so you pivot and
all of that stuff.
So I think about those thingsthat you know didn't go well and
that I've had to learn fromthem.
(21:37):
You know expensive mistakesthat may lose, you know, some
money or may lose some valuablepeople in the company because of
those mistakes.
I think the successes don'tstay, it's the failures that
stay, and maybe that's part ofsurvival, you know, so you don't
make the same mistakes again.
But other than that, I think theonly one thing that I did
(21:57):
regret actually and it's agenuine regret, other than just
learning experiences is thatwhen I was at university
actually at school, and thosetwo years so I had received four
entry visas for my parents andsiblings to migrate to New
Zealand and that was part offamily reunification program to
(22:19):
come and help former refugees.
My two missions for getting outof Vietnam was one to survive
the journey and build a life formyself that's meaningful, and
two was to, once I am outsuccessfully and ended up in a
destination country like NewZealand, australia, wherever
that, I would send my family outof Vietnam and we would reunite
(22:40):
together.
So I had two rounds in a numberof years to get those visas
approved, finally got themapproved, but the visa only had
a two-year period where you canbring your family into the
country, otherwise they wouldexpire, and once they expire,
that's it.
You're not given them again.
And so during those last yearof school and then first year of
(23:01):
university, I busted my guts,you know, I busted my guts,
studied full time and had twopart-time jobs to make a living
to feed myself, but also to sendmoney home to help mom and dad
and the family.
Because it was very expensive,right, but then, over the course
of the two years, it didn'thappen.
We didn't have enough, and sothey couldn't come.
(23:21):
They couldn't come into NewZealand, and I felt so
devastated by that, by whathappened there, and so I decided
that, you know, I was not goingto.
When it came to graduating atuniversity, with all the great
friends that I studied with, Idecided not to turn up to the
graduation ceremony and justgraduated with an absentia,
(23:43):
because I just couldn't bear thethought of going to graduation.
All my friends were there, theyall have their families there,
and my parents were not going tobe able to be there, just
couldn't go through with it, andso that was what I did.
But then, after that passed andI was able to think again, I'd
realized how big a mistake Imade.
Not only I didn't have myfamily at my graduation, but
(24:04):
because I didn't turn up, Ididn't graduate alongside my
friends either.
We all spent four years of hardwork at university to
eventually graduate, and I wasin none of the graduation photos
.
I was not at the graduationdinner and that was it.
It was just like that wholething never happened in my life,
(24:25):
you know, and it was my choice,right, and this was.
It was a moment when I learnedthe true meaning between, the
true meaning of the differencebetween a glass half full and a
glass half empty.
I threw the baby out with thatbathwater.
I couldn't have my parentsthere, but if I had turned up
still, I still would have hadall my friends and their
families and been in all thephotos and have the memories,
(24:47):
the shared memories, with myfriends graduating together.
So long story short, I thinkthat is my biggest regret and it
was really about feeling sorryfor myself.
I think ever since then, I madea conscious effort to not let
myself feel sorry for myselfever again.
Yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's actually a very people will resonate with
that story in their own lives.
So, yeah, really reallyappreciate you sharing that, and
so do you think that has insome way sort of inspired you in
a weird way to never let thathappen again or to be successful
in what you do?
So to turn your mind to doingthe various things that you're
doing, and doing it well anddoing it fully.
(25:27):
It's part of that early, thatearly experience absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, in general, absolutely, but also
specifically with one thing aswell, and that one thing was to
get together with somelike-minded friends and
co-founding the Auckland RefugeeFamily Trust.
This trust is just a whole bunchof volunteers.
I was a co-founder and I was atrustee for a long time and just
a patron, but it was actuallythe team of volunteers that came
(25:54):
together and did all the work.
What we've been doing was justraise money and use the money
that we raise and allocate torefugees who are trying to bring
their families over, who haveonly less than six months left
on their visa, but they can'tfill the gaps themselves, the
remainder of the gaps themselves, so we kind of give them
pop-ups and that has helped many, many families reunite and
(26:18):
avoid the situation thathappened to me.
So for me it's empowering andliberating in that, whilst I
can't change my own history,what happened to my family's
situation, but together withthese amazing people, I've been
able to flip the coin andprevent that from happening to
other families.
(26:39):
And then, over time, eventuallyit would have been last year
where the government establisheda funding category for the
majority of the cases that we'vebeen raising money and trying
to help.
So now the system itself hasrecognized this gap and has put
(26:59):
a measure in to address it, andfor me that is the ultimate
victory, I think.
So I wanted to take somethingthat I had no control of into
something that we could changepermanently, going forward for
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, when you were awarded your New Zealand Order
of Merit, that must have meant alot, you know, for a guy who
had sort of come out here as ateenager and gone through all of
the struggles that you'd gonethrough to then not just be
recognised as a Kiwi but reallyhonoured amongst the most
highest of Kiwis.
How did that feel?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
How did that feel?
Oh man, that still feelssurreal to this day.
I say this day.
It was only last year.
I'm still not completely surehow I feel about this.
It's quite surreal For someonewho was stateless.
Refugees are stateless.
No country, no country, wantedthem to be accepted to New
(27:54):
Zealand and to be given theenvironment and the opportunity
to get educated, to build a life, to go into business and all of
the.
I mean.
New Zealand is still, you know,one of the easiest country to
set up a business, rightAlongside Singapore.
So that's all of theseprivileges that I've been given,
you know, since arriving in NewZealand, right Out of living in
(28:16):
this country.
Not only that, but then theopportunity to lead, stepping up
and sharing the tech industry.
There have been so many surrealmoments where I have had to
pinch myself and also, along theway, while doing these things,
I've been feeling like acomplete imposter, but still
(28:38):
these opportunities keep onpresenting themselves to me and
I never took any of them forgranted and just applied myself
100%.
So I feel that I've been luckyand privileged, more so than, as
you might say, an achiever ofany kind.
I think all of these thingshave just been seeing the need,
more so than, as you might say,an achiever of any kind.
I think all of these thingshave just been seeing the need,
(29:02):
having the ability to dosomething about it, and my dad
has always reminded me that ifthere's a need and you have the
skill, the education, theability to address it or to
solve a problem or to make adifference, having those things
are gifts and, as such, you havethe responsibility to apply
yourself right, especially onbehalf of those who don't have
(29:23):
those gifts.
I just followed how I was raised, just followed my nose, and
then one day I got an emailabout LNZM and you know I
thought it was a hoax, I deletedit and then three weeks later I
got another email, sounded moreurgent, like, oh, we need to
hear from you so that we can,you know, begin our process and
(29:44):
stuff.
And, being a tech guy, I wentand checked the IP addresses of
the domains and all of that,making sure, and then felt
completely bewildered, thinking,gosh, this is like.
I mean, I read about thesepeople twice a year in the
newspapers, right, and here I amreceiving it.
It's completely proud, butprobably not as much of myself
(30:05):
as of all of the people andorganization I've had the
privilege to work with over thethree decades, and so, whilst I
wasn't sure myself, I was verysure to accept the honor on
everyone's behalf, and I'vespent the last year just sharing
with all these friends andcolleagues, you know, and
carrying this around.
(30:25):
I didn't leave it at home andI've been just sharing it with
everybody that I feel, you knowthis rightfully partly belongs
to trying to take as many of theselfies with them as I can to
build this collection.
That's probably the only thingI know what to do.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Mitchell, it has been such an honour to be able to
catch up with you and I can seein you you are an incredible
character, actually, givenwhat's actually happened in your
earlier life and what you werewanting to escape from and the
life that you're wanting tobuild.
Some of the hardship thatyou've gone through, some of the
family separation issues,learning to adjust into a new
(31:04):
culture, and yet to rise aboveall of that and connect with
people, connect others togetheraround something that's
important to you and important,certainly, to the success of the
nation.
So I really want to thank youfor everything that you have
done to date and, as I saidearlier, like I still feel like
there's a lot more in the tankfor you.
(31:26):
You're a motivated guy, but ithas been a really, you know,
it's been a real honour to beable to chat to you today, so
really want to thank you for thetime that you've given.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you so much, Greg.
The honor is all mine.
So once again, thank you.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Hey, don't forget to check out Deskwork, the team
behind you, being able to buildhigh-performing offshore teams
for your startups and SMEs.
It's deskworkco.
Backslash, greg, and go andsave yourself some hard-earned
money.
When you go out there into the world, right, for
God's sake, make an impression,Whatever you do, make an
impression even if it's a badone, because otherwise no one
will know you were ever there.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mitchell is a co-founder, director ambassador
for what is now known as CodeHQ,and you've been doing that for
a few decades now.
He is what you would considerin New Zealand as the OG of the
tech world.
He really is very, very highlythought of.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And sometimes it's not about winning, it's just
about being able to stay in thegames, so to speak, just to
survive long enough to kind ofget to the other side of
whatever the trouble was.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hey everybody, it's Greg Sheehan.
Welcome to my podcast, whereyou will hear from a range of
guests, including those from thestartup world and those that
have had incredibly interestinglives and some stories to tell.
I would really appreciate it ifyou could hit the follow button
and share this amongst yourfriends, but, as you know, time
is limited, so let's get on withit and hear from our next guest
(01:04):
.
I want to tell you a little bitabout desk work.
Desk work is your offshoringoption.
If you want to save around 50%of your total headcount cost for
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Honestly, if I was looking tostart an accounting firm again,
(01:28):
it would be a no-brainer for meto use Deskwork.
I've used offshoring teamsbefore in the past.
I got past my skepticism onbeing able to do it and it was
so phenomenally successful.
Go have a look at desk-workcobackslash, greg, and book
yourself a free discovery callto learn more about it.
(01:49):
Better still, mention my nameand get yourself some discounts.
Check it out.
Now back to the show.
My guest today is Mitchell Pham,and Mitchell was introduced to
me by very well-known founder,janine Granger from Easy Crypto,
and Janine said do you knowMitchell Pham?
I said I do.
(02:09):
I didn't know him personally,but I knew so much about him.
He is what you would considerin New Zealand as the OG of the
tech world.
He really is very, very highlythought of.
Firstly, welcome to the podcast, mitchell.
Thank you, it's great to haveyou here and you're a busy man,
so trying to pin you down in thelast few months has been
(02:30):
challenging because you areinvolved in all sorts of things.
I'm actually going to read someof these things out because I
think it gives the audience asense of just some of the
achievements that you've had.
You are a co-founder, directorambassador for what is now known
as Code HQ, and you've beendoing that for a few decades now
.
You are the trustee and anhonorary advisor for the Asia
(02:51):
New Zealand Foundation.
You're an entrepreneur inresidence at the University of
Auckland Business School.
You are a former co-chair ofKia.
Now, for those who don't knowKia, that's Kiwi expats abroad
and I'm now abroad, so I am nowa newly signed up member of Kia.
I'm very proud to be a part ofthat.
Look, you have a LinkedInprofile.
That is just phenomenal.
(03:12):
You've got something like24,000 followers or something on
LinkedIn and I have never seena profile so full.
You have done a lot and it'simpossible to capture what an
incredible life today, but itfeels like you're just sort of
getting started in many ways aswell.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Are you implied that I still have a lot more to
happen?
I think you do.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'd love to start, though, Mitchell, by just
hearing and we touched on thiswhen we first had a chat I'd
love to hear your early originstory, originally from Vietnam,
but your story of how you got tobe here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Great.
Thank you again, greg, forhaving me on the program.
It's a real privilege.
And you know, I must admit, Iwas a bit ignorant and kind of
didn't know I hadn't come acrossyour program.
But after Janine Granger wenton the program and she, you know
, literally raved about you andshe said, right, I must get on
that program, I must get onthere and share.
So here I am.
(04:06):
Well, it's super cool havingyou here, thank you.
So, just going all the way back,I was originally born in
Vietnam, a place that's nowknown as Ho Chi Minh City, and I
spent my first 12 years inVietnam, growing up with my
family that's my parents, myselfand a younger brother, thu Minh
and my younger sister that's myparents, myself and a younger
brother, truman and my youngersister and we had a very
(04:26):
challenging childhood because atthe time, towards the last few
years of my time there inVietnam, we really struggled.
The economy was a close economy.
It was like a permanentrecession, maybe even depression
.
Life was really tough.
We were not involved with themilitary in any way, we were
(04:49):
just civilians.
But after the end of theVietnam War, the country
plummeted into a very deepeconomic black hole and I
remember not having enough foodto eat as a kid and all of those
challenges.
And so millions and millions ofVietnamese families tried to
escape Vietnam.
Not many made it outsuccessfully and for those who
(05:12):
did not, many actually survivedthe journey, and in my case, my
family tried three times.
The third time I successfullygot out, but without my parents
and siblings.
I ended up and nearly diedseveral times at sea the South
China Sea.
Eventually, my boat was rescuedby an oil rig operation in
Indonesia.
I ended up in four refugeecamps in Indonesia over the
(05:36):
period of two years before Ieventually arrived in New
Zealand in 1985.
Coming up, what is it July now?
So next month it will be 39years in New Zealand.
I Coming up, what is it Julynow?
So next month it will be 39years in New Zealand.
And I arrived here as ateenager, and so again, you know
, I think the first 10 years wasreally really difficult
Adjusting to the culture, theclimate and also, you know,
(05:58):
adjusting to being a teenager aswell, wasn't easy.
But yeah, it took me about 10years to eventually feel like I
belong and I felt like a Kiwi.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What was your English like at that time, when you
first arrived?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I started to learn English when I was in Vietnam,
just extracurricularafter-school classes, and then I
learned a bit more in a moreconcentrated environment in the
refugee camps, which was whereyou could learn languages of the
countries that you wanted to goto.
And then I really learned therest in New Zealand, once you're
kind of fully immersed in anEnglish-speaking country.
(06:30):
So I had some English.
That wasn't strong, but it wasenough to kind of get me around
the school yard and enough tokind of propel me through school
and end up in university.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Were you, therefore, because of the background,
because of almost the story ofnearly dying and being at sea
and I can imagine that thatlevel of hardship meant that
maybe you could then tackleanything that you felt that you
could do.
Were you therefore just drivenin a way that perhaps many other
(07:01):
young people at the timeweren't?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I can't speak for other young people, but I'd be
the third generation to face thechallenges the country went
through.
The Vietnam War the American War, as it's called in Vietnam was
just then the latest of a longhistory of challenges.
And so the things that we choseto do and the things that we
(07:23):
strive for and struggle toovercome, some of these choices
were made by the circumstances.
As in, you don't have a choiceand you just have to get on and
face these challenges and findways to get through and to
survive.
And sometimes it's not aboutwinning, it's just about being
able to stay in the game, so tospeak.
(07:44):
And sometimes it's not aboutwinning, it's just about being
able to stay in the game, so tospeak, just to survive long
enough to kind of get through tothe other side of whatever the
trouble was.
And so I think that was morekind of growing up and having an
early life journey where youdon't really think about those
things, you just simply respondto the situations, the hands
that you're dealt with, so tospeak, and it wasn't about being
(08:05):
tough, it was just simply aboutnecessity.
It was just a necessity tosurvive.
That, over time, became a partof my personality and it kind of
reinforced the way I look atthings and the way I approach
things and the way I deal withthings that either don't work
out or are outside of my control.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, you have done so many things in your career,
but I'd be keen to sort ofunderstand how you got involved
in tech.
What was the early sort oforigin in getting involved in
the technology industry?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Oh, repeatedly over the decades I seemed to get
involved in things that Iinitially told myself that I
didn't want to, or I wasinitially not interested in.
It's quite strange.
So I was never interested incomputer studies at school.
I was not interested incomputer science.
At university I took a businessdirection and studied commerce.
(09:00):
But something happened in thefirst year I was at university
in an information systemslecture and it was just first
year, so everything was verybasic.
It was just all aboutpossibilities really, rather
than knowledge.
But I had an incredible lecturerand I've always been influenced
and inspired by others prettymuch.
(09:22):
I can't really claim any creditfor anything myself, and this
is an example of that where thislecturer he wasn't teaching
technology per se and he wasn'tteaching business per se either,
but he connected the dotsbetween the two and he talked
about the possibilities andafter about three lectures I was
(09:44):
completely hooked.
I could visualize, I couldimagine how information
technology would and indeedafter 30 years proven to change
business completely, and notonly business right entire
industries, economy andsocieties as well.
It was really inspiring and Ithink that got me hope.
(10:07):
You know it is.
I'm always motivated much, muchmore by the why rather than the
what and the how, and theneither I figure out the what and
the how or I actually worktogether with people who are far
smarter than myself and betterthan myself to be able to figure
those things out and do themreally well, because none of the
(10:29):
so-called successes that Imight be credited for really was
achieved on my own.
It's always been because I hadreally amazing people and teams
I worked with and organizationsthat I was part of.
So that's probably the longanswer to your question.
That was how I ended up in tech, and the rest is history, as
(10:51):
they say.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And if you look at that history and you have just
done so many things like it's aphenomenal number of things that
you've achieved.
What is it that you most enjoyabout this industry and what you
do Like?
What is it?
I mean, you talk about people,and I'm going to take that as a
given working with great people,but what area of the industry
(11:13):
do you particularly love?
Do you love being a problemsolver?
Do you love being an investor?
Do you love being an advisorboard member, an ambassador?
What is it?
What is it that you really lovedoing.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I think to narrow it down to one thing is probably
too hard for me to do, so I'llanswer your question in a
slightly different way.
As many things as you might seelisted, I've only been doing
two things, really, and it'sbecause I'm only passionate
about two things.
One is tech, but it's not thetechnology I'm passionate about.
It's how technology impactsbusinesses, industries,
(11:47):
economies and societies, and themore I see the impact, the more
I'm driven to be part of it, tocontribute to it, to accelerate
it and so forth.
So that's one of my two corepassions that are very, very
personal to me, and for me it'svery difficult to separate
business and personal when itcomes to the why, when it comes
(12:07):
to the motivation.
So one of the only two thingsI've been doing the last 30
years or so is that, thatpassion for tech.
The other is passion for NewZealand's opportunity in Asia.
So if you look at everythingI've done, whether listed or not
, they fall into either of thosetwo camps and literally nothing
(12:32):
else.
Now, occasionally, some thingsI do ended up fitting into both
camps at the same time, andthat's when there's extra magic,
like working with some techcompanies that want to expand
into Asia, I was like, wow, thisis a cool space, you know, that
combines both of my passions.
I don't need both to be presentright for me to be driven about
(12:53):
it.
Those are the two passions.
But why am I driven to do allthese things in the first place
in following those two passions?
Because I could follow thosetwo passions in different ways.
But because I could followthose two passions in different
ways, that's what I've done.
I think it just goes back to howI and my siblings were raised
by our parents.
We've always been raised togrow in advance and become
productive citizens of whicheversociety that we live in, and to
(13:18):
also basically be part ofthings that are much bigger than
ourselves and make sure that wemake an impact when we're there
.
Right?
My most favorite is that.
One is from Mark Twain and hewrote that two most important
days in your life are the daythat you were born and the day
that you discovered why.
That is super profound.
And then, when I was in mysixth form chemistry class back
(13:42):
at school, my then chemistryteacher, who was teaching his
very final year before heretired and he said oh, I'm
going to miss teaching you, kids, I want to leave you with a
piece of advice that hopefullyyou will one day understand.
And we were all listening.
He said look, when you go outthere into the world, right for
God's sake, make an impression.
(14:03):
Whatever you do, make animpression even if it's a bad
one, because otherwise no onewill know you were ever there.
And so somewhere between thosetwo sayings are pretty much the
reason behind everything I do.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
It's super clear when you talk about those two things
, one being the power oftechnology and the second one
being the connection betweenAsia and New Zealand.
Where do you think theAsian-Kiwi relationship is?
How do you see that now?
Do you think it's in a goodplace generally?
There's always more work to do,right.
Where do you see that?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, it's a very important question.
I've been involved with theAsian-New Zealand Foundation for
about 17, coming on to 18 yearsnow in different roles, and the
organization's been around for30 years this year, I think.
So I think 20 years ago thelevel of connection between New
(14:56):
Zealand and Asia, I would say itwas an infant, and 20 years
later now it's a toddler, right.
So maybe that gives you a senseof I don't mean much more work,
but actually it's much moreopportunity as well.
Right, we have ahead of us andI'm even more excited about that
now, nearly 20 years later,than when I started.
(15:18):
So it's an exciting time forNew Zealand and the rest of APAC
.
It's an exciting time forAsians who live in New Zealand
and, yeah, so it's timeopportunity, I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And if you look at the things that you've done in
your career to date, what is itthat you look back on with the
most fondness, Like the thingthat you?
I mean, it might not even besomething necessarily that's a
highlight on LinkedIn, but it'ssomething that you look back on
and maybe you're still involvedin it, but you look on it really
fondly and I know I'm makingyou choose, oh if there is one
(15:53):
thing Well, I think the longestrunning thing then how about
that?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I don't like having favorites, because then it makes
everybody else feel lessimportant.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I knew you'd say that .
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Too hard, right?
So let's flip it and say, right, okay, what have you been
involved with for the longest?
And you're still involved withit, because clearly you must
still be passionate about it.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
You'd make a great politician Mitchell.
You really would oh okay, you'dgive me another idea.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
There you go.
It's another idea for you Maybethat's the case.
Then it's CodeHQ, what used tobe known as the Elgin Software
Group, and for me it is aperfect example.
And I know it's a bit unfair,because this example I created
(16:37):
it or I co-created it and otherexamples, people and
organizations and projects andtechnology that I've worked with
I didn't create and control asmuch as this one, but this is a
tech company that is dedicatedto help New Zealand businesses
accelerate their digitaldevelopment right, so that in
(16:59):
itself is a very strong purposethat I've always felt aligned
with, and so it's really awesomebecause it is a company that
has allowed me to be able toengage with so many different
industries over the last threedecades.
You know, financial servicesand healthcare and education,
supply chain services and allthat.
It's been wonderful.
That's one part of it, and so itcontributes to that whole kind
(17:22):
of passion about the impact oftech on businesses and
industries, but at the same time, because for nearly 20 years
now, 19 years now we've had avery successful extension to the
business back into Vietnam.
So we have sort of like a 30, 70split now in terms of the
headcount in the businessoperating out of Auckland and my
(17:45):
other office in Ho Chi MinhCity and that, as you can see,
brings the Asia and New Zealandpart dimension into the mix.
And not only that Vietnam is mycountry of origin and Ho Chi
Minh City is where my parentsstill live.
So when you look at this onesingle business and, yes, sure,
your business is what you makeof it, right, but still I am
(18:09):
infinitely grateful that I havebeen able to create and have had
a lot of amazing people jointhe company and build and grow
to what it is today that reallyrepresents so many parts of me
as a person.
Even though now, for the lastthree plus years, I've stepped
(18:29):
away from running the businessand being part of the leadership
team, I still feel infinitelyconnected with the company and
the people in it.
I'm heading up to Vietnam againand joining the team up there
next week for a team buildingexercise in Ho Chi Minh City.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
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(19:28):
Let's get back to the show.
It's very powerful, actually,and what would you say is your
superpower?
What are you supremely good at?
And I know you're a humble guy,but there will be something
that you would look at and saythat's your key strengths.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Oh gosh.
Well, first of all disclaimerI'm not good at anything.
So nobody believes that I justwant to set the expectation, set
the value.
But what I'm more natural at, Ithink, is connecting with
people, being able to developideas.
I'm attracted to problems and Iproblem solve entrepreneurially
(20:05):
.
So I connect people, I connectorganizations, I connect ideas.
I figure out how you kind ofbring all the pieces together to
create a business you know andwork with others to kind of
build and grow that.
I'm kind of naturally wide thatway.
I think if you can call thatbeing good at something, it's
very organic.
Everything I've done is kind of, in a way, just I've done many
(20:27):
business plans but never had acareer plan.
I don't know how to interviewfor a job.
I see a problem and if I careabout it, I do something about
it.
That seems to be the one thingthat connects all of the
seemingly different together noplans, still don't have a plan.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And what about regrets?
Are there things across yourcareer that you regret?
Ooh, it's a heavier one.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
It's a heavier one.
Actually, your other questionkind of alluded to that in my
mind.
What do you think about that?
Actually, I don't think a lotabout what might have been
achieved, but I do replay in mymind kind of mistakes and errors
I've made, whether or notconsciously or unconsciously
kind of made.
When you are an entrepreneur andyou operate in an innovation
(21:17):
space it's mostly trial anderror.
You can make a lot of mistakes,or you can.
You know some of it is makingmistakes.
Some of it is discovery right,discovery journey.
You know some of those makingmistakes, some of the discovery
right, discovery journey.
You know discovering that somethings don't work or something,
and the right certain, that sortof thing, and so you pivot and
all of that stuff.
So I think about those thingsthat you know didn't go well and
that I've had to learn fromthem.
(21:37):
You know expensive mistakesthat may lose, you know, some
money or may lose some valuablepeople in the company because of
those mistakes.
I think the successes don'tstay, it's the failures that
stay, and maybe that's part ofsurvival, you know, so you don't
make the same mistakes again.
But other than that, I think theonly one thing that I did
(21:57):
regret actually and it's agenuine regret, other than just
learning experiences is thatwhen I was at university
actually at school, and thosetwo years so I had received four
entry visas for my parents andsiblings to migrate to New
Zealand and that was part offamily reunification program to
(22:19):
come and help former refugees.
My two missions for getting outof Vietnam was one to survive
the journey and build a life formyself that's meaningful, and
two was to, once I am outsuccessfully and ended up in a
destination country like NewZealand, australia, wherever
that, I would send my family outof Vietnam and we would reunite
(22:40):
together.
So I had two rounds in a numberof years to get those visas
approved, finally got themapproved, but the visa only had
a two-year period where you canbring your family into the
country, otherwise they wouldexpire, and once they expire,
that's it.
You're not given them again.
And so during those last yearof school and then first year of
(23:01):
university, I busted my guts,you know, I busted my guts,
studied full time and had twopart-time jobs to make a living
to feed myself, but also to sendmoney home to help mom and dad
and the family.
Because it was very expensive,right, but then, over the course
of the two years, it didn'thappen.
We didn't have enough, and sothey couldn't come.
(23:21):
They couldn't come into NewZealand, and I felt so
devastated by that, by whathappened there, and so I decided
that, you know, I was not goingto.
When it came to graduating atuniversity, with all the great
friends that I studied with, Idecided not to turn up to the
graduation ceremony and justgraduated with an absentia,
(23:43):
because I just couldn't bear thethought of going to graduation.
All my friends were there, theyall have their families there,
and my parents were not going tobe able to be there, just
couldn't go through with it, andso that was what I did.
But then, after that passed andI was able to think again, I'd
realized how big a mistake Imade.
Not only I didn't have myfamily at my graduation, but
(24:04):
because I didn't turn up, Ididn't graduate alongside my
friends either.
We all spent four years of hardwork at university to
eventually graduate, and I wasin none of the graduation photos
.
I was not at the graduationdinner and that was it.
It was just like that wholething never happened in my life,
(24:25):
you know, and it was my choice,right, and this was.
It was a moment when I learnedthe true meaning between, the
true meaning of the differencebetween a glass half full and a
glass half empty.
I threw the baby out with thatbathwater.
I couldn't have my parentsthere, but if I had turned up
still, I still would have hadall my friends and their
families and been in all thephotos and have the memories,
(24:47):
the shared memories, with myfriends graduating together.
So long story short, I thinkthat is my biggest regret and it
was really about feeling sorryfor myself.
I think ever since then, I madea conscious effort to not let
myself feel sorry for myselfever again.
Yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's actually a very people will resonate with
that story in their own lives.
So, yeah, really reallyappreciate you sharing that, and
so do you think that has insome way sort of inspired you in
a weird way to never let thathappen again or to be successful
in what you do?
So to turn your mind to doingthe various things that you're
doing, and doing it well anddoing it fully.
(25:27):
It's part of that early, thatearly experience absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, in general, absolutely, but also
specifically with one thing aswell, and that one thing was to
get together with somelike-minded friends and
co-founding the Auckland RefugeeFamily Trust.
This trust is just a whole bunchof volunteers.
I was a co-founder and I was atrustee for a long time and just
a patron, but it was actuallythe team of volunteers that came
(25:54):
together and did all the work.
What we've been doing was justraise money and use the money
that we raise and allocate torefugees who are trying to bring
their families over, who haveonly less than six months left
on their visa, but they can'tfill the gaps themselves, the
remainder of the gaps themselves, so we kind of give them
pop-ups and that has helped many, many families reunite and
(26:18):
avoid the situation thathappened to me.
So for me it's empowering andliberating in that, whilst I
can't change my own history,what happened to my family's
situation, but together withthese amazing people, I've been
able to flip the coin andprevent that from happening to
other families.
(26:39):
And then, over time, eventuallyit would have been last year
where the government establisheda funding category for the
majority of the cases that we'vebeen raising money and trying
to help.
So now the system itself hasrecognized this gap and has put
(26:59):
a measure in to address it, andfor me that is the ultimate
victory, I think.
So I wanted to take somethingthat I had no control of into
something that we could changepermanently, going forward for
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, when you were awarded your New Zealand Order
of Merit, that must have meant alot, you know, for a guy who
had sort of come out here as ateenager and gone through all of
the struggles that you'd gonethrough to then not just be
recognised as a Kiwi but reallyhonoured amongst the most
highest of Kiwis.
How did that feel?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
How did that feel?
Oh man, that still feelssurreal to this day.
I say this day.
It was only last year.
I'm still not completely surehow I feel about this.
It's quite surreal For someonewho was stateless.
Refugees are stateless.
No country, no country, wantedthem to be accepted to New
(27:54):
Zealand and to be given theenvironment and the opportunity
to get educated, to build a life, to go into business and all of
the.
I mean.
New Zealand is still, you know,one of the easiest country to
set up a business, rightAlongside Singapore.
So that's all of theseprivileges that I've been given,
you know, since arriving in NewZealand, right Out of living in
(28:16):
this country.
Not only that, but then theopportunity to lead, stepping up
and sharing the tech industry.
There have been so many surrealmoments where I have had to
pinch myself and also, along theway, while doing these things,
I've been feeling like acomplete imposter, but still
(28:38):
these opportunities keep onpresenting themselves to me and
I never took any of them forgranted and just applied myself
100%.
So I feel that I've been luckyand privileged, more so than, as
you might say, an achiever ofany kind.
I think all of these thingshave just been seeing the need,
more so than, as you might say,an achiever of any kind.
I think all of these thingshave just been seeing the need,
(29:02):
having the ability to dosomething about it, and my dad
has always reminded me that ifthere's a need and you have the
skill, the education, theability to address it or to
solve a problem or to make adifference, having those things
are gifts and, as such, you havethe responsibility to apply
yourself right, especially onbehalf of those who don't have
(29:23):
those gifts.
I just followed how I was raised, just followed my nose, and
then one day I got an emailabout LNZM and you know I
thought it was a hoax, I deletedit and then three weeks later I
got another email, sounded moreurgent, like, oh, we need to
hear from you so that we can,you know, begin our process and
(29:44):
stuff.
And, being a tech guy, I wentand checked the IP addresses of
the domains and all of that,making sure, and then felt
completely bewildered, thinking,gosh, this is like.
I mean, I read about thesepeople twice a year in the
newspapers, right, and here I amreceiving it.
It's completely proud, butprobably not as much of myself
(30:05):
as of all of the people andorganization I've had the
privilege to work with over thethree decades, and so, whilst I
wasn't sure myself, I was verysure to accept the honor on
everyone's behalf, and I'vespent the last year just sharing
with all these friends andcolleagues, you know, and
carrying this around.
(30:25):
I didn't leave it at home andI've been just sharing it with
everybody that I feel, you knowthis rightfully partly belongs
to trying to take as many of theselfies with them as I can to
build this collection.
That's probably the only thingI know what to do.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Mitchell, it has been such an honour to be able to
catch up with you and I can seein you you are an incredible
character, actually, givenwhat's actually happened in your
earlier life and what you werewanting to escape from and the
life that you're wanting tobuild.
Some of the hardship thatyou've gone through, some of the
family separation issues,learning to adjust into a new
(31:04):
culture, and yet to rise aboveall of that and connect with
people, connect others togetheraround something that's
important to you and important,certainly, to the success of the
nation.
So I really want to thank youfor everything that you have
done to date and, as I saidearlier, like I still feel like
there's a lot more in the tankfor you.
(31:26):
You're a motivated guy, but ithas been a really, you know,
it's been a real honour to beable to chat to you today, so
really want to thank you for thetime that you've given.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you so much, Greg.
The honor is all mine.
So once again, thank you.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Hey, don't forget to check out Deskwork, the team
behind you, being able to buildhigh-performing offshore teams
for your startups and SMEs.
It's deskworkco.
Backslash, greg, and go andsave yourself some hard-earned
money.
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