January 17, 2024 • 46 mins
Jill Johnson, author of "Compounding Your Confidence" and founder of Johnson Consulting Services, joins us to discuss the year her incredibly motivated and accomplished career in business was put on pause as she faced two back to back difficult losses. She discusses the way her grief changed her perspective on life, and how she found new purpose when her Mom left her with one final challenge. That challenge led her down a path of legacy work and genealogy research- taking her all over the world.
To connect with Jill, visit her website at www.jcs-usa.com or find her on Social Media and LinkedIn @JillJohnsonUSA
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Thank you so much for listening. Wishing you well on whatever trail you find yourself walking today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, and welcome back to thegrief trails podcast.
I'm your host, Amanda.
Kernaghan from, rememberGraham's a small business
dedicated to helping you supportthose in your life.
Experiencing grief.
I hope you'll consider sendingsomeone a personalized card or
grief support box shippingwithin the us is always free.
And we treat each order withspecial care paying attention to
(00:21):
every detail.
A topic that can go hand in handwith grief and loss, but is
often forgotten about is legacywork.
This can mean many differentthings to different people.
It can be the legacy youintentionally leave behind or
the things you want, your lovedones to remember you with
memories of how you lived ratherthan how you died.
(00:41):
And the legacies, the stories ofour family's lives can go back
centuries.
Those are often found throughgenealogy research, finding
family members, going backgenerations and uncovering the
stories they left behind.
Can sometimes come as a comfort,even when you are grieving
someone close to you.
This was the case for today'sguest, Jill Johnson, who dove
(01:02):
deep into our family'sgenealogy.
After a year of losing both ofher parents.
It was a journey that broughther new perspective and purpose.
Jill Johnson, author of thebook, compounding your
confidence.
And founder of Johnsonconsulting services, a
management consulting firm,specializing in strategy.
He is a well accomplished andrecognized business woman.
(01:25):
It was ambitious career goalshad to take a back seat when she
was faced with two back-to-backlosses.
She's here today to share howlooking back into her family's
history helped her to moveforward.
Let's take Alyssa.
Jill (01:38):
You know, I was on a really amazing career
trajectory.
I was, you know, Little Misseverywhere in business.
I had come out of a lot ofsuccess.
I'd been named Minnesota's YoungEntrepreneur of the Year when I
was 29.
I had started serving on boards.
I was on national boards.
I was serving on our chamberboard and the executive
(01:59):
committee of the chamber.
And, you know, I was this littlemedia darling, even within some
of our local media, wheneverthey were trying to feature some
rising young star and youngprofessional.
And, you know, it was very headystuff, but A lot of that was
really in great part due to thecattle prodding, if you will, of
my mother.
My mom had been an executivesecretary at 3M's world
(02:23):
headquarters when I was verylittle.
And we also, my father owned asmall auto body repair shop.
So I had this very upbringingwhere I had both the
entrepreneurial interest andexperience combined with
sophisticated, savvy, smartcorporate perspective.
(02:43):
So that all merged together.
And, and when I was in my latetwenties, I had left the large
corporate consulting arena tostart my own management
consulting practice.
So I'd had experience doing itfor a number of years and then
went out on my own.
And my mom was working with me.
She was my bookkeeper and shewas my administrative assistant
(03:06):
and background and support.
And, and my dad was acheerleader but in, in his own
unique and, and different ways.
And so I had this amazingpsychological support system.
And.
There were lots of expectationsfor me to be very successful and
continue to elevate and climb inthat corporate career.
(03:27):
And the beginning of therecalibration of that started in
March of the year I turned 35.
Mandy (03:37):
Before we get into that, I actually just wanted to make a
comment because I have such asimilar experience where my dad
is an entrepreneur.
And I definitely think childrenof entrepreneurs sort of inherit
that entrepreneurial mindset andspirit.
And so I know my brother and Ialways were talking about like,
what kind of business could wecreate and you know, You know,
how do we get started onsomething like that?
(03:58):
And our dad was always there,like cheering us on.
And when I started my website,my dad is actually the one who
like helped me with all thebackground tech and, you know,
all of the nitty gritty detailsthat I didn't know how to do and
was like there to guide mealong.
So I love that your mom was thatperson for you.
And we had like very similarjourneys of that.
(04:19):
But take me to that time yousaid in March, what happened?
Jill (04:23):
So, In early March, I got a call from my mom out of the
blue.
You know, I was working hard onprojects.
I had clients that I was workingwith around the country in
between board meetings and mymom called to tell me that my
father had had a mild heartattack.
And the way it was framed up forme, it was, it's not that big a
(04:45):
deal, but he had been havingissues all day long and had come
home, but he had promised aclient that he would finish
painting a car so, but hecouldn't drive.
And so he had my mom drive himback into the body shop and we
lived about.
(05:06):
Mom said it took almost an hourbecause he had to make her keep
stopping the car so he could getout of the vehicle to stretch
his arm, stretch his leg, togrimace and whatever.
Now my dad was a stubborndescendant of Polish people and
And, and, and, you know, and,and the, and a stoic Swede.
So he was adamant not to go tothe, he should have been in the
(05:30):
ER, right.
But he insisted, no, I have toget this car done.
I promised the customer to beready for him in the morning.
So my mom took him, you know,they, she navigated the extended
long drive, got him into.
the shop.
What should have been a quickfive minute paint job took
another hour.
(05:50):
And the whole time he's clearly,you know, at the throes of his
heart drama, but he wouldn't goto the hospital.
He wouldn't go to the doctor.
Well, in the morning, my momjust stamped her little foot
down and, you know, she was alla four 11 and three quarters but
she, she could be very big inwhen she needed to be.
(06:11):
And she insisted she just wasdone listening to him say no,
took, got him into the doctorand they were like, Bob, you've
had a heart attack.
So that got his attention and itcertainly got hers.
And so I get this call and I'mlike, okay, what are they going
to do?
And they said, well, they'regoing to run some tests on him.
They're going to keep him at thehospital right now for a little
(06:31):
while because they knew he'd goback to work.
Doctors were very smart.
And so he's in the hospital andhe was just this ornery, you
know, he was not a good patientbecause I think he was afraid
and he really just didn't likethat feeling of that loss of
control.
And he just did not want to bethere.
So I went over because he wasalso really bored and it was
(06:55):
clear they were going to keephim for a few days.
And.
I brought over some old picturesthat I had and some notes that I
had made from conversations withhis mother about where the
family came from in Poland.
I'm like, I got nothing else todo and he doesn't, so this will,
this will entertain him in adifferent way.
So I was showing him thepictures and, and you know,
(07:18):
we're having this conversationand I had brought my tape
recorder with and so I'm taperecording him.
And, you know, of course,initially he's very.
Don't don't record me.
Don't record me and whatever andyou know, so we have this great
conversation turned out.
He was going to need to havetriple bypass surgery.
It was pretty significant, butthey're like, Bob, you know,
(07:39):
you're 64.
in otherwise good health.
This should be a piece of cake.
The, the mortality rate forsomebody like you is less than
3%.
I'm like, we're all like, Oh,good to go.
You know, some, my brother wasworking for my folks.
So he kept the, the businessgoing during the day.
And you know, my mom was in andout doing the things that she
(08:02):
did to keep the businessrunning.
And, but I kept going to thehospital to talk to my dad and
he was, In the surgical unit andthey pulled him out because
there was a more emergent case.
He was already, you know, almostready for anesthesia.
So we're like, wow, great.
So this is not that big a deal.
And then the next day came andWe were all there for the
(08:24):
surgery.
Surgery goes fine.
They get him out.
They're taking him to ICU, so wegot to see him for a minute, and
they're like, he couldn't bedoing any better.
His cheeks are rosy, his bloodis good.
We'll have him in ICU for about12 hours, but he could not be
doing any better.
We take my mom to dinner, and asan afterthought, my sister and I
(08:46):
decided to go back to see mydad.
He was still in ICU and he wasalert enough that we were able
to kind of have a miniconversation with him.
And, and you know, my sisterasked him if he was in any pain
and he said, no.
And, you know, we just kind ofwere there for a minute and I
said, well, I'll see you lateralligator.
And cause that was the phrase wealways used.
(09:06):
And we left at a one 30 in themorning.
I got the call that changed mylife and the call was from the
ICU head nurse telling us to getthe family there that he had
taken a turn and it was highlyunlikely that he would survive.
So, you know, I've just beenwoken up from a deep sleep.
I'm like, he's what?
(09:28):
And she said, yeah, you need toget your family here.
It's, we don't think he's goingto last very long.
They're getting ready to takehim back into surgery to see if
there's anything that they cando, but we're not expecting a
good outcome.
So I made the hardest phone callI ever made, which was to call
my mom.
to tell her what was happeningand I said you need to call my
(09:49):
brother and have him drive you.
I don't want you driving.
Let him drive you.
I'll call my sister and we'llall converge at the hospital.
So we get to the hospital.
It's a little after two and it'sclear this is bad.
This is really bad and and ourbrains haven't caught up yet
because he was fine.
(10:09):
They called him Rosie.
How could this be?
And And I'll never forget, wesaw him, he was unconscious, but
we saw him before they took himinto the surgical suite.
And then we went and sat andwaited.
And at four o'clock in themorning, the doctor came in, the
surgeon, and he said, I'm sorry,but it's not looking good.
We're going to continue to try,but you need to prepare.
(10:31):
We believe we're at the end.
And 20 minutes later, they cameback and said he was dead.
My brother made a sound I'venever heard a human make.
And.
We were all just reeling andspinning and in shock.
And, you know, you pack up yourbelongings and, you know, we go
(10:51):
home and we divvied up, youknow, so I called all of his
sisters because nobody knew hewas sick.
He wouldn't let us tell anybodyhe'd been sick.
So I'm having theseconversations with people who
are just as surprised as we areand they're now trying to catch
up.
So during that summer after hedied, you know, of course we all
just went right back to workbecause That's what you're
(11:12):
supposed to do, right?
That stoic, you keep going, yougo back and, and just one foot
in front of the other.
And during that summer, I hadall these notes of these
wonderful insights that I'dgotten from my dad when I had
taped him in that conversation.
And he told me stories that I'msure he had told me before.
(11:35):
I clearly hadn't listened to orheard.
So.
My mom and I were going to allthese different places to do
genealogy research and all theseold cemeteries and at one point
my mom said, well, what about myfamily?
I want to learn more about wheremy family came from.
Like, okay, fine.
So we were doing that.
But the more time I spent withmy mom, I knew something wasn't
(11:55):
right with her.
And so the question was, youknow, was she just in deep
grief, which of course she was,they'd been married for 45
years.
They were, you know, teenagesweethearts.
And finally one night I justsaid, mom, that's it.
You're either going to thedoctor or you're going to a
grief and loss group.
It's one or the other.
You don't get a choice.
(12:16):
And then I called my sister andshe, you know, she kind of
pushed mom through that final,I'm going to do it.
So mom made an appointment tothe doctor and called me to tell
me that the doctor had diagnosedher with lung cancer.
from an x ray.
I'm like, my vet won't evendiagnose from an x ray.
So, all of a sudden, six monthslater, you know, dad's died.
(12:40):
Now we're trying to deal withthe health crisis of my mom, and
she was only 64.
Mandy (12:48):
And at the time, like, I'm thinking about your
experience with your dad, andhow You may have almost felt
lulled into this false sense ofsecurity by the medical system
because, you know, they made itsound so positive and then like
only 3 percent and just theoutlook seemed so almost, not
guaranteed, but like very likelythat he was just going to be
(13:08):
fine.
Jill (13:09):
And then it should have been no big deal.
Mandy (13:11):
Right.
And that's not what happened.
And so like then you're here sixmonths later and you get this
news about your mom.
And.
I, I can imagine it would feel,even if a doctor was like, you
know, we feel pretty good aboutthis, or we think things are
going to be okay, it must behard at that point to trust
anything from the medical systemafter that experience that you
(13:32):
just had.
Jill (13:32):
Well, and I work as a management consultant, a lot of
my clients were healthcareproviders, and so I had this
very odd background, but what wefound with mom is that they were
very lax, they were very, Well,you know, part of us, she's 64
years old and she has lungcancer and they said, well, we
can get her in at our clinic ina month.
(13:54):
I'm like hello.
No, we need her seen immediatelyand they said, well, that's the
first openings that we have atour clinic in Stillwater, which
is a town not too far from wherewe live.
I'm like, we can drive heranywhere in the metro area.
We are not limited to your onesingle location.
This was a big medical practice.
(14:14):
By the end of the week, we are,you know, within a couple of
days, you know, we had her in a,you know, the top notch.
practice that we could get herin.
And, you know, but what we hadto do was advocate for her in
very aggressive ways.
And, you know, so my lifecompletely pivoted.
Oh, the other little factor heretoo, Amanda, is that my sister
(14:38):
was getting married in twoweeks.
So mom was diagnosed.
We've got this wedding thatwe're trying to plan and prepare
for and basically what my sisterhad been living with my husband
and I, she lived with us for twoyears and was moving out the day
of her wedding, my mother movedin the next day and we then
embarked on this complex medicaljourney with her and they were
(15:00):
pretty sure at the time that shewas at stage two for lung cancer
and, and that has a possibilityof survival or at least a better
recovery.
at that time, better outcome andthat they would, you know,
likely have to remove a lung,you know, chemo and radiation.
So we're talking about really aaggressive approach to, to a
(15:24):
potential for recovery.
But my mom had a strong will tolive.
She absolutely was not ready todie and she wanted to do
everything that she could.
So I put a pause on my business.
When my dad had died, I had aclient engagement that I was in
the middle of, and I had askedmy client for an extension on it
and the client said, no.
(15:45):
That was the other reason that Ihad to just kind of go back
because I had a contract that Ihad to fulfill.
And I found out later that theclient was just being a jerk.
So, you know, that, that hadsome effect on, on my
relationship dynamic with him.
But when mom had died, I'dalready kind of slowed my
schedule down a tad to be verypresent for my sister's wedding.
(16:07):
And.
then my mom became my full timeproject.
So she was living here.
We were dealing with her medicalcare.
You know, every single day therewas something that we were
doing.
And I was also trying to dealwith all of the estate issues
that were unresolved from myfather because somebody had told
my mom she didn't need to doanything.
(16:30):
Well, she actually did.
So my whole experience as weshifted into that was as
caregiver, you know, estateadvisor trying to find the right
people to help us.
She didn't even know where herinvestments and, and where their
assets were or what they ownedbecause dad did all of that and
he never shared that with any ofher.
And so one thing I wouldencourage anybody that's in the
(16:52):
throes of this or has a lovedone that they're preparing to
lose is get the proper paperworkin place.
because it, it is essential tobeing able to get those
decisions done.
So when dad died, I did thatwith mom after she was diagnosed
and we got power of attorney andwe got the medical healthcare
directive.
We had all of those things inplace, but it was still 36 hour
(17:16):
days for caring with her.
And when they went in and didthe surgery, they realized the
cancer really was a littlefurther along.
So it was a full blown stagetwo.
So they couldn't remove thelung.
And they immediately started heron chemotherapy and radiation
every day.
Well, I kept telling them she'sreally fragile.
This is.
You know, how we need moresupport in, in helping her and
(17:39):
they ignored us.
Well, mom ended up it, she justcrashed because it was such, it
was too much for her.
She was maybe 105 pounds tobegin with.
And she got that cancer anorexiathat they got.
And, and it was, nobody waslistening, even though, you
know, I was being aggressive andpushing and whatever.
But.
(18:00):
was so sad because her cancerwas so aggressive and she didn't
have any physical reserves todraw on and she was already
psychologically depleted from mydad's passing that she went they
they thought we had at least sixmonths.
My mom went through cancer fromstage two through stage four to
(18:20):
passing in two and a halfmonths.
So I lost them both within eightmonths of each other, same age,
both out of the blue and Myworld stopped.
It just stopped because I washolding my mother's hand at the
moment of her death.
She did not say, I wish I hadanother mutual fund.
(18:40):
I wish I had another client thatwe could work on.
She didn't say any of thosethings that she had spent that
whole 35 years before pushing medown a pathway that was solely
focused on, on business successto the exclusion of almost
everything else.
And it was.
A heart shock, a reality shock,and the grief was deep and real
(19:05):
because what band, what I hadband aided over for my dad got
exploded as the whole thingripped open.
Yeah,
Mandy (19:14):
that's the thing with grief, you can't, you can't
ignore it and hope it goes away.
Never does.
Well, years
Jill (19:21):
ago, you know, it's a little different today where
people are talking about thesethings, but I didn't know
anybody who'd gone throughanything like that.
I mean, it was bad enough tolose one parent at 64.
You know, when you lose a parentthat's, you know, in their mid
80s, you know, it's, it's a sadevent, but it's not a tragedy
(19:43):
because they've in full life.
When you lose a child, that'sjust An unfathomable loss and,
and, you know, part of you hasgone forever and, and I think
when you lose parents and peoplethat you're very close with, you
know, intimate family members,part of it is it shapes your
(20:04):
body and, and your grief, Ithink differently, because it's,
It's just so abrupt and you havea really hard time catching up
with the reality of what's justoccurred.
And so for me, plus I was stilldealing with all of the estate
issues for my folks.
So I had both estates that wewere trying to resolve.
(20:24):
I had property, you know, theyhad some small property things
that I had to deal with thatwere going on.
And, you know,
Mandy (20:32):
that's something people don't talk about often is
dealing with the estate after.
And also you mentioned betweenyour father's death and your
mother's death, how youencouraged her to fill out the
proper paperwork, likehealthcare proxy and power of
attorney and all of these thingsthat we do really need and to
talk about, like, what Yourwishes are, what would you want
(20:53):
to live through?
What do you, what is not aquality life of life for you?
And when would this not be worthit to you?
Those are the kind ofconversations that we need to
have even before people getsick, you know, to be able to
have that paperwork and to knoweverything we need in order to
know, like, how do we find outabout.
What finances?
What you know, what assets do weeven have?
(21:13):
Because it leaves so much of aburden on family who are, who
are here and grieving, but thenalso having to, to figure out
the pieces of the puzzle.
Jill (21:24):
And they're having to try and go through everything and
sort it all out.
And, you know, I mean, therewere two elements about the, the
healthcare directives and all ofthe paperwork, if you will.
One is you can change it.
Unless you do, there's one kindof trust that you can't change,
but most people aren't dealingwith trust issues, so, or, or
formal trust issues likeirrevocable, irrevocable trust.
(21:47):
But, but the other part of itis, and I ran into this with my,
when I was helping my mother inlaw as she was transitioning and
dealing with dementia and wewere trying to get her affairs
in order.
I had asked my sister in law,who's an RN, to get a health
care directive done, and shedidn't do it.
And I'm like, I was confusedbecause, you know, she was, she
(22:09):
actually was the nurse in thecardiac unit that cared for my
dad the night before he died.
She was the charge nurse incharge, so, so he did get a
little extra attention that lastnight he was on earth.
But she just couldn't get itdone.
I finally gave her an ultimatum,either you get it done.
by Tuesday or I will and shedidn't get it done and I did but
what I discovered later was thatshe thought that writing out the
(22:32):
wishes and you know all of thatwas putting a DNR a do not
resuscitate order on her momlike no Beth no no no she's like
years from that.
No, that's not what this paperis.
And, but again, I think a lot ofpeople have a misunderstanding
of those things, even peoplethat are caring professionals
(22:53):
that should have a betterperspective on it.
But for me, after my mom died, Imean, I, You know, I ran away to
the dog show.
I mean, we literally, we leftthe funeral and went to a dog
show to pick up one of my dogs.
We had showed Rottweilers formany years and my dog was in
Chicago with her handler.
And I was so numb.
(23:16):
I, I think I cried the wholeseven hour drive.
I just, until I just had drytears.
I mean, I just could not wrap myhead around what had occurred.
And.
All I could keep holding on toin the months that stepped
forward was the things that Ihad done with both parents
(23:37):
towards the end of their life,which was this family history
piece.
And I had my mom on her deathbedmade me initially when we were
starting her recovery or what wethought might be a recovery.
She said, well, I want to getwell enough so that I can take
all of us.
to Europe and we'll go to allthe villages.
(23:57):
So you'll figure it out andwe'll go to all the villages.
And she was going to pay for thewhole trip.
I'm like, I'm in, you know, but.
As everything, you know,transpired so rapidly in, in, in
such a wild and out of controlway.
She made me promise on herdeathbed that I would continue
the research and that I wouldfind all of the villages.
(24:20):
No, we had six countries I hadto deal with all the villages
and that I would take her in myheart to all of them.
I'm like, Oh my God, do you haveany idea how big a goal that
turned out to be?
My life was not only not my ownbecause of the estate stuff, but
it was also not my own because Iwas honor bound to fulfill this
(24:41):
commitment to her.
Her last thing she asked me todo was that.
And so I found.
You know, my business becamedifferent.
I, I started only working withclients that I liked and that I
wanted to work with.
So that, that March guy waslike, yeah, you know, the fee is
(25:01):
a lot more if you want to workwith me, pal.
And, and I just began.
altering how I presented myselfin the world.
I was no longer rushing througha room trying to see how many
business cards I could collect.
It was, if I get one or two realconnections with people at this
(25:22):
event, that is more than enough.
And it, Became about reallyconnecting in very real and very
human ways with the people thatI was interacting with.
And what it ended up doing is itdeepened the quality of my
consulting practice and therelationships that I had with
(25:42):
clients.
Brought me to my roles as acommunity leader in different
ways, you know, it wasn't alllook at me.
Look at me.
Look at me.
It was more.
How can I serve?
Where can where can I havemeaning and value?
And it also altered because Istarted to look at how I lived
(26:03):
my life as if.
What if today is it and and Iknow that may sound trite to
people who are listening to it,but when you begin to start
approaching life about where canI leave my imprint?
Where can I leave my pixie dust?
Where can I make a difference tosomeone else?
(26:25):
It alters how you.
Live your life.
And so I started doing a lot ofmentoring.
You know, it's not paid work,but it's legacy work and started
passing the hand back to peoplebehind me because now I was in
my mid thirties and pushing to40.
And I had young people comingbehind me that I knew some
(26:46):
things that could be helpful tothem.
And, and over time, You know, asI began doing the genealogy
research, you know, initially,the, the research is focused on
the dead, right?
Because you're looking for deathrecords and, and historical
information about people who'vebeen dead for a hundred years or
more.
(27:07):
And, but they're all very realto me.
I took six trips to Salt LakeCity to do research in the
Mormon.
library.
I was up at seven o'clock in themorning to be in line so I could
get the one machine that was myreader.
I'm like, I don't get up thatearly at home as, you know, for
a business meeting.
But I, I had that thing and, youknow, six years I would go spend
(27:28):
seven to ten days in thelibrary, you know, looking at
microfilm and doing research.
And when we were, we were stillshowing dogs and if there was an
archive, a relevant archivewhere we were, I was in the
archives.
I was in the archives in NewYork City while my dog showed at
Westminster.
I was, you know, in, in Podunk,Wisconsin, trying to find a
(27:50):
distant relative of a cousin ofmy grandmother, who I ended up,
he's like, Take me to visit myson.
So I'm like taking this 90 yearold out of the nursing home and
we're, and he's trying toremember how to get, how to
drive to his son's house.
And I'm like, Oh my God, whathave I done?
And we got to the son's house orwhatever.
And it was, it was a greatperspective.
Cause I already knew about hisfamily.
(28:12):
And, and he'd been put in anorphanage and I knew all the
family back history because ofall the work I had done and,
and, and his mother reallywasn't dead, but that's what
women of that era had to do whentheir husbands died.
And so I had all this knowledgeand, but it was starting, the
dead were starting to lead me topeople that were alive.
(28:34):
And I did two major trips to toEurope.
The first one was for fourweeks.
The second was for three.
And I found distant relatives insome of those old villages.
The reason I had to do a secondtrip is I had pretty much
everything figured out on thefirst by the first trip.
I was I used every ounce ofprofessional skill and insight
(28:55):
that I have in research andanalytics and doing cluster
research of, you know, 80 years.
Thank you.
Families that lived in aroundwhere my family came to be able
to figure out the rough regionof where they came from in the
old country and but I justcouldn't figure out that last
one who my mother was namedafter and so I hired a student
(29:18):
to go parish to parish.
And I didn't give her all theinfo, but I gave her some and
she found the church that wasthe 10th church.
She went to the priest knewexactly which family she was
talking about because he had anarticle that had been written in
1940 about people who had leftin the 80s.
And it had all of the details,including things I had never
(29:40):
told the student, and there wasno question.
So when I went to that parish,between his weak English and my
marginal German, we were able tohave a conversation.
And he said he had rememberedthe article from when he had
started working at the parish.
And I said, when was that?
And he said, 40 years ago.
I'm like, The one person in theuniverse.
(30:02):
So, you know, all the, thosedead all led me back.
I left, you know, a contributionfor them to say masses for my
folks.
But what I realized on thatsecond trip is that it was my
mother's, not only her finalchallenge to me, but it was her
final gift to me because sheknew how hard her leaving would
(30:24):
be.
And by giving me the impossiblechallenge, she redirected that
all of that skill and energy andresources that she had channeled
into my career development to.
something that would be veryhealing for my soul and
ultimately gave me a way back toreally being that caring,
(30:49):
compassionate person again.
But I also find too, and justone last thought, you know, when
I was talking about how wepresent ourselves to the world,
you know, we're all on socialmedia and, you know, people leak
information about themselves andif they're in a trauma state.
(31:09):
And a lot of times what I do isI don't post, you know, oh so
sorry for your loss, onsomebody's feed.
A private message.
How are you?
I know this is so hard and youknow, or, or I will reach out or
leave messages on theirvoicemail as they're getting,
you know, where I know thatthey're in the three days of
(31:29):
you're dealing with all thefuneral preparations and now
you're dealing with you know,the extended family that you
don't like that you're having tobe here and then you're getting
your mom's house ready to sellall that.
I'll leave voicemail or sendtexts or, or whatever.
social media, private messagesto people just to let them know
that there's somebody in theuniverse that cares about them
(31:51):
and knows what it's like to walkin that shadowed path.
And I've had a variety of peoplethat have reached back out later
and said, I can't tell you.
I sat and listened to yourvoicemail over and over and
over.
You know, before the funeraland, and after the, from the
wake because I was just, Icouldn't.
Couldn't deal.
And somebody who works with meright now just lost her mother
(32:14):
unexpectedly.
She was in her late mid to late80s, but it was still
unexpected.
It wasn't like she was lingeringand ill.
And, and, and she said, I'm sograteful you know, for the
messages because it was reallyhelpful.
Mandy (32:27):
Yeah, I think when we experience loss ourselves and
experience the level of griefthat We know other people are
going through, we show up in theworld differently for them, and
it's one of the gifts ofexperiencing something so
traumatic.
Jill (32:42):
Yeah, it's part of that circle of life, but you know
it's also hard I think for a lotof us because if you were raised
in that stoic way where you justget back on the horse and you
keep charging along.
It's.
really difficult to allow otherpeople to offer support.
(33:03):
And it's, it's very difficult toallow other people to help.
And you know, as I steppedforward to support my mother in
law, I helped mid midwife thedeaths of several aunts.
But over time I realized, youknow, even though I'm superbly
capable of managing every aspectof their life and their end of
(33:23):
life, I had to allow their kids.
To do it and to not be perfectin it.
I would offer suggestions andsupport.
I would be a listening ear, butI had to kind of find those
balances of when can you make anoffer and when it's okay for
those offers to not be accepted.
(33:45):
And I think I'm at a stage nowwhere I'd be more clear about
what I need.
Please make food for me.
I can't
Mandy (33:53):
cook.
Not another Italian casserole,
Jill (33:57):
that's what I would say.
Yeah, I need high protein, highprotein.
But my husband nearly died 10years ago.
And I sat in the ICU in thetwilight with they, they said it
was very grave and it was veryunlikely he would survive.
And, you know, the power ofprayer is, is certainly
(34:17):
comforting in moments like that,but.
I had to do this self check andgo, okay, I'll be okay.
I, you know, I manage our money.
So I know where the assets are.
I'm not going to have the sameexperience that my mom did.
I will be tremendously lonelyand I will be enormously sad for
the loss of companionship, but Iwill be okay but I realized
(34:43):
later, I don't cook like I'llhave to move into assisted
living to get three meals a day.
But you know, it's it's thatkind of moment.
So what it allowed me to do wasbe his advocate as he was in
that twilight and And asking thequestions of the medical
professionals and pushing back,well, is there anything else you
(35:05):
can do?
What else can you try?
And, you know, after hesurvived, he had a really long
recovery.
So then it was pushing, okay,well, you know, what, what
services can we get?
What resources can we do?
What can I buy?
And, and we were able, myhusband's fully recovered now,
and you'd never know he ever hadany, any issues, but it was a
(35:27):
long slog.
And, I interrupted myprofessional career.
I stopped working.
He was my project and, you know,I had that luxury because what I
learned from my parents is thatyou have to prepare for the
rainy day.
So that means don't live on yourincome.
That means put some money asidebecause there will inevitably be
(35:49):
some thing that occurs in lifethat When you have some
financial resources set aside,it gives you the flexibility and
the freedom to be able to befully present as you need to be
in, in ways that matter.
And I think for my parentspassing, that was a really
powerful legacy that they leftfor me, was really having that
(36:11):
understanding that I could makea better difference by learning
from the experience that I hadfrom their loss.
Yeah, there's so
Mandy (36:22):
much there that I love, especially this gift that your
mother sort of gave you.
This different purpose that youcould follow and the power of
having something to work towardsand don't
Jill (36:35):
get me wrong.
I'm still I'm still careerminded and hustle and boards
and, you know, working withbigger clients and all of that.
I'm I'm living a lot of what sheenvisioned for me.
But it's different.
It's different.
And, and one of the reasons thatI wrote my book Compounding Your
Confidence was because I knew ifI had a bigger platform, I could
(37:00):
share insights with more people.
So again, that idea of leavinglegacy.
and touching people and givingsupport to people when and when
they need it.
The book became the platform forthat.
But the other thing I do,Amanda, and most people don't
realize this because I neverdraw any real attention to it,
(37:21):
is it's not uncommon for me tohave a photograph with my
parents.
in a slide deck that I'm usingfor a presentation where
they're, the image that theyrepresent on the screen is the
image that's a point that I'mmaking.
And so I don't say, Oh, that'smy dad.
It's just, I know they're there.
(37:41):
So they're always still therewith me.
Whenever I write a proposal, theyou know, in a, in a formal
letter, you know, it, it haslike the initials the assistant
who might've secretary thatmight have typed it out or
whatever.
It's a little old school but Istill use my mother's initials
on every proposal that I sendout because she's there, she's
(38:03):
still there.
And so that's how I find smallways of keeping them present.
I got a huge award a while backand I was standing on the on the
side of the stage getting readyto to walk across to receive it
and in my pocket was a pictureof my parents and I had a
necklace that my mother hadgiven me.
(38:24):
I had a ring that I had gottenfrom her and I had a little
golden gloves boxing charm thatmy dad had given to my mom when
she was You know, 18.
They were all in my pocket.
So no one in the audience knew,but I knew that they were there
with me and I brought them thestage with me to accept this
(38:45):
honor.
And, but it was such anextraordinary mindful decision.
to keep them present.
I think sometimes it's reallyeasy to push away and to forget,
but you know, for me, I'm notafraid to talk about them.
I, that's how I keep them alive.
And my brother died unexpectedlya couple years ago.
(39:09):
Also at the age of 64.
Wow.
And, you know, so that broughtback a lot of traumatic dynamic
because I'm next up, right?
Age wise.
Mandy (39:22):
Yeah, I will say that's a real fear.
When you lose parents young, it,it almost puts a stop.
Like a stopwatch in your lifewhere you think, I'm not going
to live past that age.
So I'm, my mom was 47, I'm 40right now.
And so I think about that, like,Oh, what if I only have seven
years left?
Because that's how
Jill (39:39):
long she had.
And then you make the most of,because what if you only have
three years left?
Right.
What if it's only, you know,three more weeks, you know, and
I think that's where thatsetting that priority becomes.
It's so vital that we makechoice about how we live and,
and I, I've spoken to grief andloss groups about what I call
(39:59):
recalibrating your life afterloss.
And maybe someday I'll write abook about it, but I think what
it really involves is it's,it's.
honoring and understanding thatthe loss you've had will never
be replaced.
It will never be exactly thesame as it was, but there are
(40:20):
ways of recalibrating yourexistence to still have meaning
and value and connectedness andrelationship.
You know, I look at thecorporate world today and a lot
of people are Very disconnected.
You know, we hear about thequiet quitting and, and how, you
know, people just, they, theydon't like their jobs.
(40:41):
They don't like their bosses.
And the truth is they don't likethemselves either.
And, you know, COVID broughtout, I think some of that,
because, you know, people gotvery isolated, but.
But I also think it's anotherform of grieving.
You know, we're grieving theeasier life that we had pre
COVID.
We're, we're grieving the, thethings that we are in our
(41:04):
workforce that we don't have anylonger, that, or the
relationships that we can'ttrust because, you know,
families were pulled apart by,Are you going to vaccinate?
Aren't you?
You know, do you do this?
Do you do that political thispolitical that everything got
bifurcated?
And I think there's a lot ofgrief in our society right now.
(41:25):
That is an unacknowledgedundercurrent that.
I think the more we can find ourway to, to reclaim a sense of
connectedness, the greater the,our ability will be to not only
survive this complex, weird timethat we're in, just like you
(41:46):
survive complex, weird timesafter the loss of a loved one or
a trusted ally or trustedfriend.
Three really good trusted alliespass during COVID from unrelated
things, one of whom was, justhad been such a champion for me
that, you know, and, and she wasonly 62 and you just kind of go,
(42:08):
this isn't possible, but yet.
I, I will grieve and honor thatloss, but then, you know, she's
now coming with me to events andacknowledged in, in different
places and, and, and I thinkthat's how we honor it.
And so, because I'm next up forthat dreaded number age wise,
(42:29):
I've decided I'm not dying.
at that at 64.
I'm breaking the family curseand so I'm starting, you know,
I'm focusing on what can I do tobuild up my health and, you
know, I'm, I'm looking at all ofthe different things that I can
still control and in the big oneis my mindset and you know, I
(42:50):
got at least another 20 to 30years of held arrays and I fully
intend to do it because that'sthe last of the legacy from my
parents is the commitment andthe accomplishment and the
impact that I have as as Icontinue to live the rest of
this life.
Mandy (43:10):
Wow.
I agree.
I think mindset is huge and notenough people give it the power
it deserves.
And I just love being able tohear your perspective and your
story.
Thank you so much for coming onand sharing it with us.
It's my pleasure.
How can people find you ifthey're interested in connecting
with you?
Jill (43:27):
Sure.
Well, I'm I'm all over socialmedia.
My handle on all of them is atJill Johnson USA.
There was a Swedish singer thathas the she has the claim to
just the Jill Johnson.
But so I linked in.
It's at Jill Johnson USA.
I'm on all the social media andmy website is is for my business
(43:49):
is JC s.
usa.com for Johnson ConsultingServices.
So jcs usa.com.
You know, I welcome to haveyour, your listeners reach out
and tell me how my comments hadresonated with them or, or what
touched them.
You know, you can reach me.
(44:10):
I have email access and, and aform you can fill out to reach
me on my website or if youconnect with me on social media,
just say, Hey, I heard you onAmanda's.
Podcast and, and just tell meyour message, but yeah, I'm,
I'm, I'm pretty easy to find ifyou look.
Perfect.
Mandy (44:26):
I love talking to you.
Really interesting journey thatyou took.
I loved hearing about thegenealogy.
I think that's really cool.
Jill (44:33):
Well, I wanted to weave that into because I think people
often don't realize that theycan be active in their grief
recovery that, you know, justsitting around wallowing around
in the dark is not good, but,you know, picking up and, and
moving forward on somethingdoesn't have to be the thing
that will change your financialstatus or, you know, cure
(44:56):
cancer, but, It doesn't matterto anybody but me, and that was
enough, and, and so.
Mandy (45:04):
And I think so many people have, like, one thing
that they really kind of latchedonto, and it may have been
something they didn't do at allprior to that loss that really
helped them get through it andto heal.
For me it was hiking, but I'vetalked to so many people through
the podcast that it just seemsso many people will find some
random thing that they, like,really weren't.
(45:25):
As deep into and then it becomesthat, that thing that kind of
carries them through their
Jill (45:30):
grief, it anchors you to something else.
And I, and I think, and itbrings you around different
energy and differentperspective.
I hope you enjoyed listening toJill's story today.
She says at one point that sheasked herself, where can I leave
my pixie dust?
So for today's journal prompt,write about your own pixie dust,
(45:52):
the legacy that you hope toleave one day.
Like always let the writing leadyou in whatever direction it
takes.
Thank you so much for listening,please make sure you subscribe.
Share this episode with anyonewho could benefit from it and as
always visit remember grams.
Anytime you need to send alittle extra love to someone
who's grieving.
Thank you and have a wonderfulday.
Hello, and welcome back to thegrief trails podcast.
I'm your host, Amanda.
Kernaghan from, rememberGraham's a small business
dedicated to helping you supportthose in your life.
Experiencing grief.
I hope you'll consider sendingsomeone a personalized card or
grief support box shippingwithin the us is always free.
And we treat each order withspecial care paying attention to
(00:21):
every detail.
A topic that can go hand in handwith grief and loss, but is
often forgotten about is legacywork.
This can mean many differentthings to different people.
It can be the legacy youintentionally leave behind or
the things you want, your lovedones to remember you with
memories of how you lived ratherthan how you died.
(00:41):
And the legacies, the stories ofour family's lives can go back
centuries.
Those are often found throughgenealogy research, finding
family members, going backgenerations and uncovering the
stories they left behind.
Can sometimes come as a comfort,even when you are grieving
someone close to you.
This was the case for today'sguest, Jill Johnson, who dove
(01:02):
deep into our family'sgenealogy.
After a year of losing both ofher parents.
It was a journey that broughther new perspective and purpose.
Jill Johnson, author of thebook, compounding your
confidence.
And founder of Johnsonconsulting services, a
management consulting firm,specializing in strategy.
He is a well accomplished andrecognized business woman.
(01:25):
It was ambitious career goalshad to take a back seat when she
was faced with two back-to-backlosses.
She's here today to share howlooking back into her family's
history helped her to moveforward.
Let's take Alyssa.
Jill (01:38):
You know, I was on a really amazing career
trajectory.
I was, you know, Little Misseverywhere in business.
I had come out of a lot ofsuccess.
I'd been named Minnesota's YoungEntrepreneur of the Year when I
was 29.
I had started serving on boards.
I was on national boards.
I was serving on our chamberboard and the executive
(01:59):
committee of the chamber.
And, you know, I was this littlemedia darling, even within some
of our local media, wheneverthey were trying to feature some
rising young star and youngprofessional.
And, you know, it was very headystuff, but A lot of that was
really in great part due to thecattle prodding, if you will, of
my mother.
My mom had been an executivesecretary at 3M's world
(02:23):
headquarters when I was verylittle.
And we also, my father owned asmall auto body repair shop.
So I had this very upbringingwhere I had both the
entrepreneurial interest andexperience combined with
sophisticated, savvy, smartcorporate perspective.
(02:43):
So that all merged together.
And, and when I was in my latetwenties, I had left the large
corporate consulting arena tostart my own management
consulting practice.
So I'd had experience doing itfor a number of years and then
went out on my own.
And my mom was working with me.
She was my bookkeeper and shewas my administrative assistant
(03:06):
and background and support.
And, and my dad was acheerleader but in, in his own
unique and, and different ways.
And so I had this amazingpsychological support system.
And.
There were lots of expectationsfor me to be very successful and
continue to elevate and climb inthat corporate career.
(03:27):
And the beginning of therecalibration of that started in
March of the year I turned 35.
Mandy (03:37):
Before we get into that, I actually just wanted to make a
comment because I have such asimilar experience where my dad
is an entrepreneur.
And I definitely think childrenof entrepreneurs sort of inherit
that entrepreneurial mindset andspirit.
And so I know my brother and Ialways were talking about like,
what kind of business could wecreate and you know, You know,
how do we get started onsomething like that?
(03:58):
And our dad was always there,like cheering us on.
And when I started my website,my dad is actually the one who
like helped me with all thebackground tech and, you know,
all of the nitty gritty detailsthat I didn't know how to do and
was like there to guide mealong.
So I love that your mom was thatperson for you.
And we had like very similarjourneys of that.
(04:19):
But take me to that time yousaid in March, what happened?
Jill (04:23):
So, In early March, I got a call from my mom out of the
blue.
You know, I was working hard onprojects.
I had clients that I was workingwith around the country in
between board meetings and mymom called to tell me that my
father had had a mild heartattack.
And the way it was framed up forme, it was, it's not that big a
(04:45):
deal, but he had been havingissues all day long and had come
home, but he had promised aclient that he would finish
painting a car so, but hecouldn't drive.
And so he had my mom drive himback into the body shop and we
lived about.
(05:06):
Mom said it took almost an hourbecause he had to make her keep
stopping the car so he could getout of the vehicle to stretch
his arm, stretch his leg, togrimace and whatever.
Now my dad was a stubborndescendant of Polish people and
And, and, and, you know, and,and the, and a stoic Swede.
So he was adamant not to go tothe, he should have been in the
(05:30):
ER, right.
But he insisted, no, I have toget this car done.
I promised the customer to beready for him in the morning.
So my mom took him, you know,they, she navigated the extended
long drive, got him into.
the shop.
What should have been a quickfive minute paint job took
another hour.
(05:50):
And the whole time he's clearly,you know, at the throes of his
heart drama, but he wouldn't goto the hospital.
He wouldn't go to the doctor.
Well, in the morning, my momjust stamped her little foot
down and, you know, she was alla four 11 and three quarters but
she, she could be very big inwhen she needed to be.
(06:11):
And she insisted she just wasdone listening to him say no,
took, got him into the doctorand they were like, Bob, you've
had a heart attack.
So that got his attention and itcertainly got hers.
And so I get this call and I'mlike, okay, what are they going
to do?
And they said, well, they'regoing to run some tests on him.
They're going to keep him at thehospital right now for a little
(06:31):
while because they knew he'd goback to work.
Doctors were very smart.
And so he's in the hospital andhe was just this ornery, you
know, he was not a good patientbecause I think he was afraid
and he really just didn't likethat feeling of that loss of
control.
And he just did not want to bethere.
So I went over because he wasalso really bored and it was
(06:55):
clear they were going to keephim for a few days.
And.
I brought over some old picturesthat I had and some notes that I
had made from conversations withhis mother about where the
family came from in Poland.
I'm like, I got nothing else todo and he doesn't, so this will,
this will entertain him in adifferent way.
So I was showing him thepictures and, and you know,
(07:18):
we're having this conversationand I had brought my tape
recorder with and so I'm taperecording him.
And, you know, of course,initially he's very.
Don't don't record me.
Don't record me and whatever andyou know, so we have this great
conversation turned out.
He was going to need to havetriple bypass surgery.
It was pretty significant, butthey're like, Bob, you know,
(07:39):
you're 64.
in otherwise good health.
This should be a piece of cake.
The, the mortality rate forsomebody like you is less than
3%.
I'm like, we're all like, Oh,good to go.
You know, some, my brother wasworking for my folks.
So he kept the, the businessgoing during the day.
And you know, my mom was in andout doing the things that she
(08:02):
did to keep the businessrunning.
And, but I kept going to thehospital to talk to my dad and
he was, In the surgical unit andthey pulled him out because
there was a more emergent case.
He was already, you know, almostready for anesthesia.
So we're like, wow, great.
So this is not that big a deal.
And then the next day came andWe were all there for the
(08:24):
surgery.
Surgery goes fine.
They get him out.
They're taking him to ICU, so wegot to see him for a minute, and
they're like, he couldn't bedoing any better.
His cheeks are rosy, his bloodis good.
We'll have him in ICU for about12 hours, but he could not be
doing any better.
We take my mom to dinner, and asan afterthought, my sister and I
(08:46):
decided to go back to see mydad.
He was still in ICU and he wasalert enough that we were able
to kind of have a miniconversation with him.
And, and you know, my sisterasked him if he was in any pain
and he said, no.
And, you know, we just kind ofwere there for a minute and I
said, well, I'll see you lateralligator.
And cause that was the phrase wealways used.
(09:06):
And we left at a one 30 in themorning.
I got the call that changed mylife and the call was from the
ICU head nurse telling us to getthe family there that he had
taken a turn and it was highlyunlikely that he would survive.
So, you know, I've just beenwoken up from a deep sleep.
I'm like, he's what?
(09:28):
And she said, yeah, you need toget your family here.
It's, we don't think he's goingto last very long.
They're getting ready to takehim back into surgery to see if
there's anything that they cando, but we're not expecting a
good outcome.
So I made the hardest phone callI ever made, which was to call
my mom.
to tell her what was happeningand I said you need to call my
(09:49):
brother and have him drive you.
I don't want you driving.
Let him drive you.
I'll call my sister and we'llall converge at the hospital.
So we get to the hospital.
It's a little after two and it'sclear this is bad.
This is really bad and and ourbrains haven't caught up yet
because he was fine.
(10:09):
They called him Rosie.
How could this be?
And And I'll never forget, wesaw him, he was unconscious, but
we saw him before they took himinto the surgical suite.
And then we went and sat andwaited.
And at four o'clock in themorning, the doctor came in, the
surgeon, and he said, I'm sorry,but it's not looking good.
We're going to continue to try,but you need to prepare.
(10:31):
We believe we're at the end.
And 20 minutes later, they cameback and said he was dead.
My brother made a sound I'venever heard a human make.
And.
We were all just reeling andspinning and in shock.
And, you know, you pack up yourbelongings and, you know, we go
(10:51):
home and we divvied up, youknow, so I called all of his
sisters because nobody knew hewas sick.
He wouldn't let us tell anybodyhe'd been sick.
So I'm having theseconversations with people who
are just as surprised as we areand they're now trying to catch
up.
So during that summer after hedied, you know, of course we all
just went right back to workbecause That's what you're
(11:12):
supposed to do, right?
That stoic, you keep going, yougo back and, and just one foot
in front of the other.
And during that summer, I hadall these notes of these
wonderful insights that I'dgotten from my dad when I had
taped him in that conversation.
And he told me stories that I'msure he had told me before.
(11:35):
I clearly hadn't listened to orheard.
So.
My mom and I were going to allthese different places to do
genealogy research and all theseold cemeteries and at one point
my mom said, well, what about myfamily?
I want to learn more about wheremy family came from.
Like, okay, fine.
So we were doing that.
But the more time I spent withmy mom, I knew something wasn't
(11:55):
right with her.
And so the question was, youknow, was she just in deep
grief, which of course she was,they'd been married for 45
years.
They were, you know, teenagesweethearts.
And finally one night I justsaid, mom, that's it.
You're either going to thedoctor or you're going to a
grief and loss group.
It's one or the other.
You don't get a choice.
(12:16):
And then I called my sister andshe, you know, she kind of
pushed mom through that final,I'm going to do it.
So mom made an appointment tothe doctor and called me to tell
me that the doctor had diagnosedher with lung cancer.
from an x ray.
I'm like, my vet won't evendiagnose from an x ray.
So, all of a sudden, six monthslater, you know, dad's died.
(12:40):
Now we're trying to deal withthe health crisis of my mom, and
she was only 64.
Mandy (12:48):
And at the time, like, I'm thinking about your
experience with your dad, andhow You may have almost felt
lulled into this false sense ofsecurity by the medical system
because, you know, they made itsound so positive and then like
only 3 percent and just theoutlook seemed so almost, not
guaranteed, but like very likelythat he was just going to be
(13:08):
fine.
Jill (13:09):
And then it should have been no big deal.
Mandy (13:11):
Right.
And that's not what happened.
And so like then you're here sixmonths later and you get this
news about your mom.
And.
I, I can imagine it would feel,even if a doctor was like, you
know, we feel pretty good aboutthis, or we think things are
going to be okay, it must behard at that point to trust
anything from the medical systemafter that experience that you
(13:32):
just had.
Jill (13:32):
Well, and I work as a management consultant, a lot of
my clients were healthcareproviders, and so I had this
very odd background, but what wefound with mom is that they were
very lax, they were very, Well,you know, part of us, she's 64
years old and she has lungcancer and they said, well, we
can get her in at our clinic ina month.
(13:54):
I'm like hello.
No, we need her seen immediatelyand they said, well, that's the
first openings that we have atour clinic in Stillwater, which
is a town not too far from wherewe live.
I'm like, we can drive heranywhere in the metro area.
We are not limited to your onesingle location.
This was a big medical practice.
(14:14):
By the end of the week, we are,you know, within a couple of
days, you know, we had her in a,you know, the top notch.
practice that we could get herin.
And, you know, but what we hadto do was advocate for her in
very aggressive ways.
And, you know, so my lifecompletely pivoted.
Oh, the other little factor heretoo, Amanda, is that my sister
(14:38):
was getting married in twoweeks.
So mom was diagnosed.
We've got this wedding thatwe're trying to plan and prepare
for and basically what my sisterhad been living with my husband
and I, she lived with us for twoyears and was moving out the day
of her wedding, my mother movedin the next day and we then
embarked on this complex medicaljourney with her and they were
(15:00):
pretty sure at the time that shewas at stage two for lung cancer
and, and that has a possibilityof survival or at least a better
recovery.
at that time, better outcome andthat they would, you know,
likely have to remove a lung,you know, chemo and radiation.
So we're talking about really aaggressive approach to, to a
(15:24):
potential for recovery.
But my mom had a strong will tolive.
She absolutely was not ready todie and she wanted to do
everything that she could.
So I put a pause on my business.
When my dad had died, I had aclient engagement that I was in
the middle of, and I had askedmy client for an extension on it
and the client said, no.
(15:45):
That was the other reason that Ihad to just kind of go back
because I had a contract that Ihad to fulfill.
And I found out later that theclient was just being a jerk.
So, you know, that, that hadsome effect on, on my
relationship dynamic with him.
But when mom had died, I'dalready kind of slowed my
schedule down a tad to be verypresent for my sister's wedding.
(16:07):
And.
then my mom became my full timeproject.
So she was living here.
We were dealing with her medicalcare.
You know, every single day therewas something that we were
doing.
And I was also trying to dealwith all of the estate issues
that were unresolved from myfather because somebody had told
my mom she didn't need to doanything.
(16:30):
Well, she actually did.
So my whole experience as weshifted into that was as
caregiver, you know, estateadvisor trying to find the right
people to help us.
She didn't even know where herinvestments and, and where their
assets were or what they ownedbecause dad did all of that and
he never shared that with any ofher.
And so one thing I wouldencourage anybody that's in the
(16:52):
throes of this or has a lovedone that they're preparing to
lose is get the proper paperworkin place.
because it, it is essential tobeing able to get those
decisions done.
So when dad died, I did thatwith mom after she was diagnosed
and we got power of attorney andwe got the medical healthcare
directive.
We had all of those things inplace, but it was still 36 hour
(17:16):
days for caring with her.
And when they went in and didthe surgery, they realized the
cancer really was a littlefurther along.
So it was a full blown stagetwo.
So they couldn't remove thelung.
And they immediately started heron chemotherapy and radiation
every day.
Well, I kept telling them she'sreally fragile.
This is.
You know, how we need moresupport in, in helping her and
(17:39):
they ignored us.
Well, mom ended up it, she justcrashed because it was such, it
was too much for her.
She was maybe 105 pounds tobegin with.
And she got that cancer anorexiathat they got.
And, and it was, nobody waslistening, even though, you
know, I was being aggressive andpushing and whatever.
But.
(18:00):
was so sad because her cancerwas so aggressive and she didn't
have any physical reserves todraw on and she was already
psychologically depleted from mydad's passing that she went they
they thought we had at least sixmonths.
My mom went through cancer fromstage two through stage four to
(18:20):
passing in two and a halfmonths.
So I lost them both within eightmonths of each other, same age,
both out of the blue and Myworld stopped.
It just stopped because I washolding my mother's hand at the
moment of her death.
She did not say, I wish I hadanother mutual fund.
(18:40):
I wish I had another client thatwe could work on.
She didn't say any of thosethings that she had spent that
whole 35 years before pushing medown a pathway that was solely
focused on, on business successto the exclusion of almost
everything else.
And it was.
A heart shock, a reality shock,and the grief was deep and real
(19:05):
because what band, what I hadband aided over for my dad got
exploded as the whole thingripped open.
Yeah,
Mandy (19:14):
that's the thing with grief, you can't, you can't
ignore it and hope it goes away.
Never does.
Well, years
Jill (19:21):
ago, you know, it's a little different today where
people are talking about thesethings, but I didn't know
anybody who'd gone throughanything like that.
I mean, it was bad enough tolose one parent at 64.
You know, when you lose a parentthat's, you know, in their mid
80s, you know, it's, it's a sadevent, but it's not a tragedy
(19:43):
because they've in full life.
When you lose a child, that'sjust An unfathomable loss and,
and, you know, part of you hasgone forever and, and I think
when you lose parents and peoplethat you're very close with, you
know, intimate family members,part of it is it shapes your
(20:04):
body and, and your grief, Ithink differently, because it's,
It's just so abrupt and you havea really hard time catching up
with the reality of what's justoccurred.
And so for me, plus I was stilldealing with all of the estate
issues for my folks.
So I had both estates that wewere trying to resolve.
(20:24):
I had property, you know, theyhad some small property things
that I had to deal with thatwere going on.
And, you know,
Mandy (20:32):
that's something people don't talk about often is
dealing with the estate after.
And also you mentioned betweenyour father's death and your
mother's death, how youencouraged her to fill out the
proper paperwork, likehealthcare proxy and power of
attorney and all of these thingsthat we do really need and to
talk about, like, what Yourwishes are, what would you want
(20:53):
to live through?
What do you, what is not aquality life of life for you?
And when would this not be worthit to you?
Those are the kind ofconversations that we need to
have even before people getsick, you know, to be able to
have that paperwork and to knoweverything we need in order to
know, like, how do we find outabout.
What finances?
What you know, what assets do weeven have?
(21:13):
Because it leaves so much of aburden on family who are, who
are here and grieving, but thenalso having to, to figure out
the pieces of the puzzle.
Jill (21:24):
And they're having to try and go through everything and
sort it all out.
And, you know, I mean, therewere two elements about the, the
healthcare directives and all ofthe paperwork, if you will.
One is you can change it.
Unless you do, there's one kindof trust that you can't change,
but most people aren't dealingwith trust issues, so, or, or
formal trust issues likeirrevocable, irrevocable trust.
(21:47):
But, but the other part of itis, and I ran into this with my,
when I was helping my mother inlaw as she was transitioning and
dealing with dementia and wewere trying to get her affairs
in order.
I had asked my sister in law,who's an RN, to get a health
care directive done, and shedidn't do it.
And I'm like, I was confusedbecause, you know, she was, she
(22:09):
actually was the nurse in thecardiac unit that cared for my
dad the night before he died.
She was the charge nurse incharge, so, so he did get a
little extra attention that lastnight he was on earth.
But she just couldn't get itdone.
I finally gave her an ultimatum,either you get it done.
by Tuesday or I will and shedidn't get it done and I did but
what I discovered later was thatshe thought that writing out the
(22:32):
wishes and you know all of thatwas putting a DNR a do not
resuscitate order on her momlike no Beth no no no she's like
years from that.
No, that's not what this paperis.
And, but again, I think a lot ofpeople have a misunderstanding
of those things, even peoplethat are caring professionals
(22:53):
that should have a betterperspective on it.
But for me, after my mom died, Imean, I, You know, I ran away to
the dog show.
I mean, we literally, we leftthe funeral and went to a dog
show to pick up one of my dogs.
We had showed Rottweilers formany years and my dog was in
Chicago with her handler.
And I was so numb.
(23:16):
I, I think I cried the wholeseven hour drive.
I just, until I just had drytears.
I mean, I just could not wrap myhead around what had occurred.
And.
All I could keep holding on toin the months that stepped
forward was the things that Ihad done with both parents
(23:37):
towards the end of their life,which was this family history
piece.
And I had my mom on her deathbedmade me initially when we were
starting her recovery or what wethought might be a recovery.
She said, well, I want to getwell enough so that I can take
all of us.
to Europe and we'll go to allthe villages.
(23:57):
So you'll figure it out andwe'll go to all the villages.
And she was going to pay for thewhole trip.
I'm like, I'm in, you know, but.
As everything, you know,transpired so rapidly in, in, in
such a wild and out of controlway.
She made me promise on herdeathbed that I would continue
the research and that I wouldfind all of the villages.
(24:20):
No, we had six countries I hadto deal with all the villages
and that I would take her in myheart to all of them.
I'm like, Oh my God, do you haveany idea how big a goal that
turned out to be?
My life was not only not my ownbecause of the estate stuff, but
it was also not my own because Iwas honor bound to fulfill this
(24:41):
commitment to her.
Her last thing she asked me todo was that.
And so I found.
You know, my business becamedifferent.
I, I started only working withclients that I liked and that I
wanted to work with.
So that, that March guy waslike, yeah, you know, the fee is
(25:01):
a lot more if you want to workwith me, pal.
And, and I just began.
altering how I presented myselfin the world.
I was no longer rushing througha room trying to see how many
business cards I could collect.
It was, if I get one or two realconnections with people at this
(25:22):
event, that is more than enough.
And it, Became about reallyconnecting in very real and very
human ways with the people thatI was interacting with.
And what it ended up doing is itdeepened the quality of my
consulting practice and therelationships that I had with
(25:42):
clients.
Brought me to my roles as acommunity leader in different
ways, you know, it wasn't alllook at me.
Look at me.
Look at me.
It was more.
How can I serve?
Where can where can I havemeaning and value?
And it also altered because Istarted to look at how I lived
(26:03):
my life as if.
What if today is it and and Iknow that may sound trite to
people who are listening to it,but when you begin to start
approaching life about where canI leave my imprint?
Where can I leave my pixie dust?
Where can I make a difference tosomeone else?
(26:25):
It alters how you.
Live your life.
And so I started doing a lot ofmentoring.
You know, it's not paid work,but it's legacy work and started
passing the hand back to peoplebehind me because now I was in
my mid thirties and pushing to40.
And I had young people comingbehind me that I knew some
(26:46):
things that could be helpful tothem.
And, and over time, You know, asI began doing the genealogy
research, you know, initially,the, the research is focused on
the dead, right?
Because you're looking for deathrecords and, and historical
information about people who'vebeen dead for a hundred years or
more.
(27:07):
And, but they're all very realto me.
I took six trips to Salt LakeCity to do research in the
Mormon.
library.
I was up at seven o'clock in themorning to be in line so I could
get the one machine that was myreader.
I'm like, I don't get up thatearly at home as, you know, for
a business meeting.
But I, I had that thing and, youknow, six years I would go spend
(27:28):
seven to ten days in thelibrary, you know, looking at
microfilm and doing research.
And when we were, we were stillshowing dogs and if there was an
archive, a relevant archivewhere we were, I was in the
archives.
I was in the archives in NewYork City while my dog showed at
Westminster.
I was, you know, in, in Podunk,Wisconsin, trying to find a
(27:50):
distant relative of a cousin ofmy grandmother, who I ended up,
he's like, Take me to visit myson.
So I'm like taking this 90 yearold out of the nursing home and
we're, and he's trying toremember how to get, how to
drive to his son's house.
And I'm like, Oh my God, whathave I done?
And we got to the son's house orwhatever.
And it was, it was a greatperspective.
Cause I already knew about hisfamily.
(28:12):
And, and he'd been put in anorphanage and I knew all the
family back history because ofall the work I had done and,
and, and his mother reallywasn't dead, but that's what
women of that era had to do whentheir husbands died.
And so I had all this knowledgeand, but it was starting, the
dead were starting to lead me topeople that were alive.
(28:34):
And I did two major trips to toEurope.
The first one was for fourweeks.
The second was for three.
And I found distant relatives insome of those old villages.
The reason I had to do a secondtrip is I had pretty much
everything figured out on thefirst by the first trip.
I was I used every ounce ofprofessional skill and insight
(28:55):
that I have in research andanalytics and doing cluster
research of, you know, 80 years.
Thank you.
Families that lived in aroundwhere my family came to be able
to figure out the rough regionof where they came from in the
old country and but I justcouldn't figure out that last
one who my mother was namedafter and so I hired a student
(29:18):
to go parish to parish.
And I didn't give her all theinfo, but I gave her some and
she found the church that wasthe 10th church.
She went to the priest knewexactly which family she was
talking about because he had anarticle that had been written in
1940 about people who had leftin the 80s.
And it had all of the details,including things I had never
(29:40):
told the student, and there wasno question.
So when I went to that parish,between his weak English and my
marginal German, we were able tohave a conversation.
And he said he had rememberedthe article from when he had
started working at the parish.
And I said, when was that?
And he said, 40 years ago.
I'm like, The one person in theuniverse.
(30:02):
So, you know, all the, thosedead all led me back.
I left, you know, a contributionfor them to say masses for my
folks.
But what I realized on thatsecond trip is that it was my
mother's, not only her finalchallenge to me, but it was her
final gift to me because sheknew how hard her leaving would
(30:24):
be.
And by giving me the impossiblechallenge, she redirected that
all of that skill and energy andresources that she had channeled
into my career development to.
something that would be veryhealing for my soul and
ultimately gave me a way back toreally being that caring,
(30:49):
compassionate person again.
But I also find too, and justone last thought, you know, when
I was talking about how wepresent ourselves to the world,
you know, we're all on socialmedia and, you know, people leak
information about themselves andif they're in a trauma state.
(31:09):
And a lot of times what I do isI don't post, you know, oh so
sorry for your loss, onsomebody's feed.
A private message.
How are you?
I know this is so hard and youknow, or, or I will reach out or
leave messages on theirvoicemail as they're getting,
you know, where I know thatthey're in the three days of
(31:29):
you're dealing with all thefuneral preparations and now
you're dealing with you know,the extended family that you
don't like that you're having tobe here and then you're getting
your mom's house ready to sellall that.
I'll leave voicemail or sendtexts or, or whatever.
social media, private messagesto people just to let them know
that there's somebody in theuniverse that cares about them
(31:51):
and knows what it's like to walkin that shadowed path.
And I've had a variety of peoplethat have reached back out later
and said, I can't tell you.
I sat and listened to yourvoicemail over and over and
over.
You know, before the funeraland, and after the, from the
wake because I was just, Icouldn't.
Couldn't deal.
And somebody who works with meright now just lost her mother
(32:14):
unexpectedly.
She was in her late mid to late80s, but it was still
unexpected.
It wasn't like she was lingeringand ill.
And, and, and she said, I'm sograteful you know, for the
messages because it was reallyhelpful.
Mandy (32:27):
Yeah, I think when we experience loss ourselves and
experience the level of griefthat We know other people are
going through, we show up in theworld differently for them, and
it's one of the gifts ofexperiencing something so
traumatic.
Jill (32:42):
Yeah, it's part of that circle of life, but you know
it's also hard I think for a lotof us because if you were raised
in that stoic way where you justget back on the horse and you
keep charging along.
It's.
really difficult to allow otherpeople to offer support.
(33:03):
And it's, it's very difficult toallow other people to help.
And you know, as I steppedforward to support my mother in
law, I helped mid midwife thedeaths of several aunts.
But over time I realized, youknow, even though I'm superbly
capable of managing every aspectof their life and their end of
(33:23):
life, I had to allow their kids.
To do it and to not be perfectin it.
I would offer suggestions andsupport.
I would be a listening ear, butI had to kind of find those
balances of when can you make anoffer and when it's okay for
those offers to not be accepted.
(33:45):
And I think I'm at a stage nowwhere I'd be more clear about
what I need.
Please make food for me.
I can't
Mandy (33:53):
cook.
Not another Italian casserole,
Jill (33:57):
that's what I would say.
Yeah, I need high protein, highprotein.
But my husband nearly died 10years ago.
And I sat in the ICU in thetwilight with they, they said it
was very grave and it was veryunlikely he would survive.
And, you know, the power ofprayer is, is certainly
(34:17):
comforting in moments like that,but.
I had to do this self check andgo, okay, I'll be okay.
I, you know, I manage our money.
So I know where the assets are.
I'm not going to have the sameexperience that my mom did.
I will be tremendously lonelyand I will be enormously sad for
the loss of companionship, but Iwill be okay but I realized
(34:43):
later, I don't cook like I'llhave to move into assisted
living to get three meals a day.
But you know, it's it's thatkind of moment.
So what it allowed me to do wasbe his advocate as he was in
that twilight and And asking thequestions of the medical
professionals and pushing back,well, is there anything else you
(35:05):
can do?
What else can you try?
And, you know, after hesurvived, he had a really long
recovery.
So then it was pushing, okay,well, you know, what, what
services can we get?
What resources can we do?
What can I buy?
And, and we were able, myhusband's fully recovered now,
and you'd never know he ever hadany, any issues, but it was a
(35:27):
long slog.
And, I interrupted myprofessional career.
I stopped working.
He was my project and, you know,I had that luxury because what I
learned from my parents is thatyou have to prepare for the
rainy day.
So that means don't live on yourincome.
That means put some money asidebecause there will inevitably be
(35:49):
some thing that occurs in lifethat When you have some
financial resources set aside,it gives you the flexibility and
the freedom to be able to befully present as you need to be
in, in ways that matter.
And I think for my parentspassing, that was a really
powerful legacy that they leftfor me, was really having that
(36:11):
understanding that I could makea better difference by learning
from the experience that I hadfrom their loss.
Yeah, there's so
Mandy (36:22):
much there that I love, especially this gift that your
mother sort of gave you.
This different purpose that youcould follow and the power of
having something to work towardsand don't
Jill (36:35):
get me wrong.
I'm still I'm still careerminded and hustle and boards
and, you know, working withbigger clients and all of that.
I'm I'm living a lot of what sheenvisioned for me.
But it's different.
It's different.
And, and one of the reasons thatI wrote my book Compounding Your
Confidence was because I knew ifI had a bigger platform, I could
(37:00):
share insights with more people.
So again, that idea of leavinglegacy.
and touching people and givingsupport to people when and when
they need it.
The book became the platform forthat.
But the other thing I do,Amanda, and most people don't
realize this because I neverdraw any real attention to it,
(37:21):
is it's not uncommon for me tohave a photograph with my
parents.
in a slide deck that I'm usingfor a presentation where
they're, the image that theyrepresent on the screen is the
image that's a point that I'mmaking.
And so I don't say, Oh, that'smy dad.
It's just, I know they're there.
(37:41):
So they're always still therewith me.
Whenever I write a proposal, theyou know, in a, in a formal
letter, you know, it, it haslike the initials the assistant
who might've secretary thatmight have typed it out or
whatever.
It's a little old school but Istill use my mother's initials
on every proposal that I sendout because she's there, she's
(38:03):
still there.
And so that's how I find smallways of keeping them present.
I got a huge award a while backand I was standing on the on the
side of the stage getting readyto to walk across to receive it
and in my pocket was a pictureof my parents and I had a
necklace that my mother hadgiven me.
(38:24):
I had a ring that I had gottenfrom her and I had a little
golden gloves boxing charm thatmy dad had given to my mom when
she was You know, 18.
They were all in my pocket.
So no one in the audience knew,but I knew that they were there
with me and I brought them thestage with me to accept this
(38:45):
honor.
And, but it was such anextraordinary mindful decision.
to keep them present.
I think sometimes it's reallyeasy to push away and to forget,
but you know, for me, I'm notafraid to talk about them.
I, that's how I keep them alive.
And my brother died unexpectedlya couple years ago.
(39:09):
Also at the age of 64.
Wow.
And, you know, so that broughtback a lot of traumatic dynamic
because I'm next up, right?
Age wise.
Mandy (39:22):
Yeah, I will say that's a real fear.
When you lose parents young, it,it almost puts a stop.
Like a stopwatch in your lifewhere you think, I'm not going
to live past that age.
So I'm, my mom was 47, I'm 40right now.
And so I think about that, like,Oh, what if I only have seven
years left?
Because that's how
Jill (39:39):
long she had.
And then you make the most of,because what if you only have
three years left?
Right.
What if it's only, you know,three more weeks, you know, and
I think that's where thatsetting that priority becomes.
It's so vital that we makechoice about how we live and,
and I, I've spoken to grief andloss groups about what I call
(39:59):
recalibrating your life afterloss.
And maybe someday I'll write abook about it, but I think what
it really involves is it's,it's.
honoring and understanding thatthe loss you've had will never
be replaced.
It will never be exactly thesame as it was, but there are
(40:20):
ways of recalibrating yourexistence to still have meaning
and value and connectedness andrelationship.
You know, I look at thecorporate world today and a lot
of people are Very disconnected.
You know, we hear about thequiet quitting and, and how, you
know, people just, they, theydon't like their jobs.
(40:41):
They don't like their bosses.
And the truth is they don't likethemselves either.
And, you know, COVID broughtout, I think some of that,
because, you know, people gotvery isolated, but.
But I also think it's anotherform of grieving.
You know, we're grieving theeasier life that we had pre
COVID.
We're, we're grieving the, thethings that we are in our
(41:04):
workforce that we don't have anylonger, that, or the
relationships that we can'ttrust because, you know,
families were pulled apart by,Are you going to vaccinate?
Aren't you?
You know, do you do this?
Do you do that political thispolitical that everything got
bifurcated?
And I think there's a lot ofgrief in our society right now.
(41:25):
That is an unacknowledgedundercurrent that.
I think the more we can find ourway to, to reclaim a sense of
connectedness, the greater the,our ability will be to not only
survive this complex, weird timethat we're in, just like you
(41:46):
survive complex, weird timesafter the loss of a loved one or
a trusted ally or trustedfriend.
Three really good trusted alliespass during COVID from unrelated
things, one of whom was, justhad been such a champion for me
that, you know, and, and she wasonly 62 and you just kind of go,
(42:08):
this isn't possible, but yet.
I, I will grieve and honor thatloss, but then, you know, she's
now coming with me to events andacknowledged in, in different
places and, and, and I thinkthat's how we honor it.
And so, because I'm next up forthat dreaded number age wise,
(42:29):
I've decided I'm not dying.
at that at 64.
I'm breaking the family curseand so I'm starting, you know,
I'm focusing on what can I do tobuild up my health and, you
know, I'm, I'm looking at all ofthe different things that I can
still control and in the big oneis my mindset and you know, I
(42:50):
got at least another 20 to 30years of held arrays and I fully
intend to do it because that'sthe last of the legacy from my
parents is the commitment andthe accomplishment and the
impact that I have as as Icontinue to live the rest of
this life.
Mandy (43:10):
Wow.
I agree.
I think mindset is huge and notenough people give it the power
it deserves.
And I just love being able tohear your perspective and your
story.
Thank you so much for coming onand sharing it with us.
It's my pleasure.
How can people find you ifthey're interested in connecting
with you?
Jill (43:27):
Sure.
Well, I'm I'm all over socialmedia.
My handle on all of them is atJill Johnson USA.
There was a Swedish singer thathas the she has the claim to
just the Jill Johnson.
But so I linked in.
It's at Jill Johnson USA.
I'm on all the social media andmy website is is for my business
(43:49):
is JC s.
usa.com for Johnson ConsultingServices.
So jcs usa.com.
You know, I welcome to haveyour, your listeners reach out
and tell me how my comments hadresonated with them or, or what
touched them.
You know, you can reach me.
(44:10):
I have email access and, and aform you can fill out to reach
me on my website or if youconnect with me on social media,
just say, Hey, I heard you onAmanda's.
Podcast and, and just tell meyour message, but yeah, I'm,
I'm, I'm pretty easy to find ifyou look.
Perfect.
Mandy (44:26):
I love talking to you.
Really interesting journey thatyou took.
I loved hearing about thegenealogy.
I think that's really cool.
Jill (44:33):
Well, I wanted to weave that into because I think people
often don't realize that theycan be active in their grief
recovery that, you know, justsitting around wallowing around
in the dark is not good, but,you know, picking up and, and
moving forward on somethingdoesn't have to be the thing
that will change your financialstatus or, you know, cure
(44:56):
cancer, but, It doesn't matterto anybody but me, and that was
enough, and, and so.
Mandy (45:04):
And I think so many people have, like, one thing
that they really kind of latchedonto, and it may have been
something they didn't do at allprior to that loss that really
helped them get through it andto heal.
For me it was hiking, but I'vetalked to so many people through
the podcast that it just seemsso many people will find some
random thing that they, like,really weren't.
(45:25):
As deep into and then it becomesthat, that thing that kind of
carries them through their
Jill (45:30):
grief, it anchors you to something else.
And I, and I think, and itbrings you around different
energy and differentperspective.
I hope you enjoyed listening toJill's story today.
She says at one point that sheasked herself, where can I leave
my pixie dust?
So for today's journal prompt,write about your own pixie dust,
(45:52):
the legacy that you hope toleave one day.
Like always let the writing leadyou in whatever direction it
takes.
Thank you so much for listening,please make sure you subscribe.
Share this episode with anyonewho could benefit from it and as
always visit remember grams.
Anytime you need to send alittle extra love to someone
who's grieving.
Thank you and have a wonderfulday.
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