November 29, 2023 • 48 mins
Michael Gershe, comedian and author, was just a baby when his life was changed forever by a drunk driver. We discuss the long lasting impacts of the accident and the ways grief has continued to show up in his life. Michael shares with us how he is a comedian and a public speaker against drunk driving, and how he has processed his grief over his lifetime.
To follow or get in touch with Michael, find him on Facebook @MichaelGershe, on Instagram @GershePix, or at his website www.themagicoflife.org
His book, "The Magic of Life: A Son's Story of Hope after Tragedy, Grief, and a Speedo" can be found on Amazon or Barnes and Noble.
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Thank you so much for listening. Wishing you well on whatever trail you find yourself walking today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, and welcome back to thegrief trails podcast.
I'm your host, Amanda.
Kernaghan from remember grams.
A small business dedicated tohelping you support those in
your life.
Experiencing grief.
I hope you'll consider sendingsomeone a personalized card or a
grape support box shippingwithin the us as a waste free.
We treat each order with specialcare paying attention to every
(00:22):
detail.
Today on the podcast, we'll betalking about something we've
all heard about.
Maybe we remember the assembliesand high school that taught us
about the dangerous of drinkingand driving.
Or we know someone who's gottenbehind the wheel while
intoxicated.
We see the accidents on the sideof the road or on the evening
news, or we know someone who'sbeen personally impacted by a
(00:44):
drunk driver.
The statistics, even now aftereducational campaigns and
stretch laws are stillstaggering.
On average 37 people die everyday in the U S as a result of
impaired driving.
Now think back to the 1970s.
Back to when cars were not madeto the same intense safety
(01:04):
regulations that we requiretoday.
Back before seatbelt laws andcar seats.
Our guests today, Michael Gersh,Comedian and author of the book,
the magic of life, a son storyof hope after tragedy, grief,
and a Speedo.
I was just a baby.
When an accident caused by adrunk driver, changed his life
forever.
(01:24):
Let's take a lesson.
Mandy (01:26):
So your story starts long ago and probably before your
memory even is there, but tellme.
However you would start yourstory of your life and what
happened to you.
Michael (01:39):
Sometimes I think my memory back then might be better
than it is now.
I was I was eight weeks old whengrief and trauma hit our family.
My father was driving his homefrom Long Island.
And when I say us as my brother,who was three, my mom, who was
the front middle seat.
And I was next to my mom and alittle baby carrier next to her.
There weren't any car seats.
(02:00):
1970, like the word, like the80s.
Right.
And we were less than a mileaway from our house when a drunk
driver plowed through theintersection and t boned the
car.
Because we were going throughthe intersection.
We had the green light and thedrunk driver plowed through the
red light on his side.
T boned the car, the force ofthe impact totaled the cars.
It pushed our car into atelephone pole and split it all
the way up to the dashboard.
(02:21):
So when the first respondersarrived, they found my Mother,
father, and brother.
They didn't find me until like10, 15 minutes later.
And someone's a family sandwichbetween the door and the dash of
the car.
And then the four of us weretaken to the hospital.
My brother didn't have a scratchon them at all, which is pretty
much of a miracle.
But you hear about drunk driverswho walk away.
(02:44):
Sometimes they run away, but noinjuries, but also people who
are sleeping and you know, in.
They can't tense up, right?
So my brother had no idea.
My dad had to get stitches onhis face from the windshield
breaking and hitting him.
My mom was taken into surgery.
As for me, all my bones werenearly broken.
My skull was completelyfractured from one side of my
(03:04):
head to the other.
So the fact I'm 53 years old andtalking to you today is nothing
short of a miracle as well.
Mandy (03:11):
Wow.
And just to think about the factthat we didn't have car seats
the way we do today.
Yeah, exactly.
And the fact that you were ableto survive without that kind of
safety that we now rely on is.
Yeah.
That's
Michael (03:23):
crazy.
Yeah.
And I was like, if I didn't knowthe hospital and the doctors
were telling my dad, well, I wastouching go, they had no idea if
I was going to survive and, andI had to get numerous blood
transfusions and they had to putme on a special board.
They couldn't, you know Put mein a cast because I was all
cartilage, so it was sort of await and see type of thing.
(03:44):
And then I had to go back formonths afterwards, make sure I
didn't have any brain damage.
I think I'm fine.
My friends would say maybe not,but they're not here on this
interview.
So I think I'm okay.
But with all my injuries, I grewup to be a competitive swimmer.
I went to college on a swimmingscholarship.
I chased my dream of being acomedian.
(04:05):
I wrote a book about my life, alittle memoir, a photographer.
So knowing how blessed I am tobe here on a daily basis, even
on the dark days, you still kindof go, well, I'm sort of lucky
to be here.
Now, my mom unfortunately diedthe next morning due to her
injuries and she was 28 yearsold.
So I'm a mother's child whonever knew his mom because of a
(04:27):
drunk driver, you know, I mean,I never heard my mom's laugh her
name, her voice, you know, thatmemory, no recognition of it at
all.
So it's been one of thosejourneys of a lot of what ifs in
terms of, of your life, youknow, what happened and that
would.
Go crazy in their brain for along time, but swimming helped
(04:49):
having a sense of humor helpedas a defense mechanism, I would
swim angry in college, I wasn'tlike an angry person, but I was
angry at Harvey Dennison whokilled my mom angry at God,
angry at my father for nevertalking about it, it was a good,
healthy outlet to deal withgrief and trauma, even growing
up.
It was swimming.
It was Spider Man.
It was Star Wars.
(05:09):
It was books.
It was reading to escape, youknow, whatever it was, and then
the older you get, you realizeyou really can't escape from
that.
And then it starts to hit moreand more in terms of you start
questioning things about why areyou alive and, and my mother's
death and the grief in terms ofthe trauma.
Even though my brother and Iwere raised by a Jamaican woman,
along with my dad.
(05:31):
So, this woman named Dolly, sheanswered an ad my grandmother
put in the newspaper for parttime help.
You know, Dolly is originallyfrom Jamaica.
She was in England at the time,working in Scotland Yard.
And she was visiting her sisterin New York for three months.
Saw the ad, figured let me finda job while I'm here.
It's only part time, right?
Well, what was supposed to be apart time job turned into a
(05:52):
lifetime.
So she raised me, my brother asher own flesh and blood.
And, you know, she's 92 yearsold, lives in South Florida, not
too far away from my brother.
And you know, she, she steppedinto a horrible situation of us
losing her mom and it became amotherhood role for us.
So we got lucky with her.
Because she taught me aboutunconditional love and human
(06:13):
spirit and all those wonderfulqualities we should have in
life.
So along with her, my dad, theyraised us.
And my dad was never the sameperson ever again, obviously,
never talked about it, you know,and it was a different era in
terms of dealing with grief andtrauma.
For
Mandy (06:33):
sure.
Yeah, I think it's definitelychanged rapidly over the
decades.
How people are willing to openup and talk about things that
have happened.
I know like my grandmother, somy father's mother died very
young and his dad refused totalk about it.
And like, it was just verysecretive and quiet and
everything.
So I think that is a positivechange in our culture.
We're getting there, right?
(06:54):
We have this whole podcast andmany others that talk about
grief.
So that's a step in the rightdirection.
But for you, Knowing that likeyou had no memory of this
happening and no memory of yourmom, what, do you, do you
remember how old you were whenyou learned about what had
happened and, and figured outthat she had died and how that
had
Michael (07:13):
happened?
I was really young.
It had to be grade schoolbecause on every school's form,
you had to write mother's name.
And it was.
You know, deceased.
I remember, I recall my dad'shandwriting for deceased.
Then after a while, you know,you start, I start writing in as
well.
And no one ever asked why orhow, but it was early on in my
life.
And then of course you realizesomething's a little bit
(07:34):
different when, you know, it'sthree white guys and a black
woman, right?
And there was no, so, you know,your family dynamic is
different.
And that's all I knew that was,you know, normal.
Dolly would spend, the job wasMonday through Friday and she
would stay in my room.
So I would, you know, play hideand seek with her through the
crib bars and stuff, and sothat's all I knew, but I can't
(07:56):
really pinpoint a specific age,but I know it was early on and
in my youth I guess you couldsay that I knew that my mother
was dead and I didn't know itwas drunk driving to high school
though, because I went into mydad's room to get his wallet,
and next to the wallet was thepress release.
And that's how I found out I wasdrunk driving, and that's what
put me into Students AgainstDrunk Driving.
(08:19):
That's what it was called backthen, and it kind of put me on
the path to share my story to,to make a difference.
And that's
Mandy (08:25):
right around the age when we start having like assemblies
at school, right?
And learning about drunk drivingand, you know, as kids are
preparing to be driversthemselves.
So it's interesting that that'swhen you learned the cause and
where you immediately feltcalled to get involved in those
organizations.
And Yeah, I did.
Michael (08:45):
I remember doing something in high school.
We would do these plays to thejunior high about drugs and
stuff.
And I grew up in Miami, Florida.
So we're talking Scarface, MiamiVice era, where drugs were, you
know, part of the Miami culture.
And I still remember MercuryMorse coming to my high school.
Not too soon after MiamiDolphins wide receiver Murphy
(09:05):
Morris, who got busted forcocaine, and he was bitter and
angry and scared the crap out ofme to like, no, no, I'm never
going to do drugs.
And so, yeah, back then it wasthose scared straight programs
right where it wasn't like myprogram involves comedy and
audience participation and in,you know, to inspire them I
don't want to, you know, it'snot doom and gloom, where a lot
(09:27):
of programs are I don't think itworks for students but back
then.
80s, you know, it was, I was alldoom and gloom, you know, for
those things and, and that hadan impact, but also for me,
going out with my friends, youknow, knowing, even though my
dad would say, you know, I don'tcare what time it is, just call,
but I never wanted to disappointthem.
And he wouldn't answer anyway,because he was fast asleep in a
(09:48):
lazy boy chair anyway.
So, you know, just resting hiseyes as he would like to say.
Oh, yeah.
Right.
But yeah, it was just you'reright around that pivotal time
of 15, you know, 16, where Ithink for me, I discovered
purpose, and it was not wantingother families to go through
this and knowing that and thenin college, it was become a peer
(10:09):
educator and then.
campus activities board and knowthat you could be a speaker for
those type of things.
And then, then grad school forhigher education and, you know,
being a part of that atmosphereand an environment.
So it all kind of blendedtogether after a while about
purpose and what I could do withmy story and, and try to save
some lives.
Mandy (10:31):
So I know you said your dad didn't openly talk about
what had happened with you.
Did you and your brother talkabout it openly?
And did your brother ever getinvolved in these types of
things?
Or has he handled it differentlyand not wanted to speak on it?
Michael (10:44):
No, we really don't.
He remembers bits and pieces ofthe car crash.
And he had some memories of mymom and his adjustment.
Afterwards was really tough as athree year old because when my
dad would go to work, he wouldcry.
He would throw a fit because,you know, one day mom didn't
come home.
So he had that separationanxiety.
So they had to do differentstuff for him.
(11:05):
Even he had to get adjusted toDolly.
One time, I think it finallyhappened when it was his turn to
go to bed and Dolly was on thephone.
And she said to Jeff, yourgrandmother will put you to bed.
And he sat down on the floor andhe said, I'll, I'll wait for
you.
And you know, Dolly was talkingabout tennis.
She would never get off thephone anyway.
So it was probably a long waitknowing her, but he had that
(11:27):
hard of adjustment, but we neverreally talked about it because
of, you know, memories and thosetypes of things.
And, and my brother is, if hehears this, probably to say
something, but he was like, myfather hides it, you know,
doesn't want to talk about it.
Even when my father passed away,my aunt passed away 90 days
apart.
Where I ended up in griefcounseling, six, seven months
(11:49):
later, he still had a hard timewith it.
And my brother, my dad had astronger bond.
I think my brother, my aunt hada stronger bond because I live
in Ohio, they live in SouthFlorida.
So it was, you know, they gottogether more, but I think my
brother maybe channeled his.
grief and trauma a different waythan me, but he's, he teaches
(12:10):
kids how to swim.
So we're both doing something tosave lives just in a different
way.
So, you know, we were bothswimmers and then just like, I
get tired of reading myarticles, people dying, my drunk
driving, he does the same thing,kids drowning and stuff.
So, you know, we're, we're bothdoing something that's impacting
the world, hopefully on a betterpace, not hopefully it is.
(12:32):
Yeah, for sure.
He never talked about it.
I know he, one time he talkedabout having memories of the car
crash, but that's as far as itwent.
And you don't want to push andprod, right?
Because you push and prod, asyou know, you don't know what
that reaction will be like withthat person, especially if
they're not ready to process it.
Mandy (12:49):
Yeah, I know.
I think this young age, it makesme think about, often I talk
with guests about when we lose aloved one and you may experience
this with your dad because Iknow you said you lost your dad
also, but sometimes when theanniversary is coming up or
their birthday is coming up,it's almost like, even if you
consciously forget that it'scoming, your body sometimes
(13:12):
knows it's coming and like,it's, yeah.
It's almost as if grief hassettled in your body and it
remembers things that havehappened even if you don't and
it makes me think about youbeing so young and just a baby
and this is sort of how yourlife began was this, this big
loss of your mom and how muchprobably did impact the
(13:32):
trajectory of your life in waysthat you maybe still don't even
fully understand or grasp howDifferent you are from that,
like how much of that settles inyour body.
You know what I mean?
Michael (13:45):
Right?
I've done a lot of, I wouldn'tsay a lot of reading, but some
books about that.
There was, I was in a book cluband we did, did Oprah's book,
you know, what happened to youand, and reading about.
Childhood and infant trauma likethat and not having my mother's
touch how that and not being,you know, excited to be picked
up in a pillow for monthsafterwards.
(14:06):
So I didn't have that connectionwith a human book, a human, but
it wasn't even if it was Dollyor my dad, it still wasn't my
mom and reading that and howthat could impact relationships
down as an adult.
Was an eye opener because Iwent, well, now here's cause and
effect.
Maybe it's not all me.
Well, maybe it still is me, but,but I can understand it in terms
(14:28):
of stuff.
And that was really fascinatingbecause you realize there's a
science behind that and thetrauma and how that can, as
early as being an infant,because all the way the brain
soaks in everything.
And then the long lasting impactwas really fascinating to read
not only that, but also yourparents trauma, how that
(14:51):
trickles down to us.
So my dad's grief and trauma waspassed down to my brother and
myself.
Cause my dad never did anythingabout it.
So that was just another layerand I emulated what he did when
he died, never talked about ituntil there was one day where I
had that plan and I'm done and,I couldn't do it because I
(15:12):
couldn't send my brother andDolly and other family members
back to the cemetery three timeswithin six months and my friends
as well.
And along with I, you know, mymother didn't sacrifice her life
so I can live, you know, and Ireally believe that she did
something in that split secondto save my life.
So no car seats.
But I think it was mother'sintervention then, or, you know,
(15:35):
just how quality of cars werebuilt back in 1970, you know,
for that, but there wassomething in that area, but
yeah, it's amazing.
And being a swimmer now that I'ma little bit older and I hurt, I
think it's just trauma.
It's not my bones just achingfrom the weather or all the
swimming or I'm just old.
It's, it was the car crash forthat, but you're, it's amazing.
(15:57):
How much the body has towardsthat trauma.
I'm a little bit more aware ofit within the last five years of
going to counseling and justdoing some research about it
where I never was.
And that's refreshing too,because also I know when my
serotonin levels dropped, theanniversaries, the birthdays, my
mom's birthday is July 21st,mine's July 24th.
(16:19):
So you have the birthdays.
And those eight weeks up to thecar crash, where you go back and
what was life like, you know,and those types of things.
So you do slide down a littlebit, but then grief counseling
gave me the tools to try to findbalance where I never really had
that before.
And that's been a lifesaver.
Yeah.
And
Mandy (16:38):
so your dad died, you said five years ago
Michael (16:42):
now.
And he died in January of 2018.
And then my aunt died 90 dayslater.
That was his sister.
Mandy (16:50):
And so, did those losses like bring up unresolved grief
about your mom that you hadn'trealized or what made you decide
to go to counseling and did itstir up things?
Michael (17:03):
Turn about my mom not until you just said that, but
Well, the counseling part, itwas just, I was doing a
fundraiser for our nonprofit andmy friend was taking pictures
for new pictures.
And and even that day I had aplan I had, it was the same week
that, kate Spade and AnthonyBourdain kill themselves.
(17:23):
And, and it was a bad week.
I was like, I'm not going to seethe end of this week.
And I had the plan andeverything.
And I had lunch with mycounselor, who's a dear friend
of mine and another friend,because we were talking about
doing a stand up to grief typeof thing.
Three, three men comedians doingcomedy, but also sharing their
stories of, of grief.
And we're having lunch.
It goes, you don't look likeyourself.
(17:44):
And I'm trying to do the bestjob to hide myself.
Right.
And the eyes don't lie.
Cause even my friend said, wecan't use these pictures because
your eyes are sad.
And it's like you try.
And so I went home that day fromthat lunch and I went onto the
website and I filled up, youknow, everything was yes, except
for being pregnant.
And we, we met.
(18:05):
And the first question mycounselor said was, let's talk
about your mom's death and howthat impacted all your
relationships.
And I was like, I'm not here totalk about my mom.
I'm here to talk about my dadand aunt.
She's like, Oh no, we're notbudging off of this.
And I was 47 years old andfinally processing and working
through my mom's death.
And, and for so long, I thoughtI identified as a victim and
(18:28):
survivor of a drunk drivingcrash, you know, 100%.
That was, that's who I am.
And I realized that's not who Iam.
It's a part of me, but it's notall of me.
So we worked my mom's death andthen moved to my dad's death and
then my aunts and because I, youknow, I was hiding all that
pain.
And again, I didn't want to die.
I just wanted the pain to stop.
And I wasn't going to selfmedicate because we both know
(18:49):
how, how well that goes.
So, you know, I just couldn'tget out of that hole.
And then counseling was a hardsix months.
You put the work in and, and mycounselor said, after that time,
she goes, you look like adifferent person.
I feel like a different person.
That was 2000 18.
I went back again in 2020 aroundthe 50th anniversary, and I
(19:10):
don't know if it's because ofturning 50 car crashed 50.
I went back and then we did EMDRand my counselor was like, are
you willing to do this?
I'm willing to do whatever ittakes and.
It was, you know, again, hard todo, but I had to fix, I was the
problem and I had to fix myself.
I couldn't, you know, blameanyone else.
I couldn't live like thatanymore.
(19:31):
And even when you get to thedarkest days, I still thought of
my friends and my brother andDolly and family members, not
going back to that, you know,cemetery.
So I had to do whatever it hadto, to find peace and happiness
as much as possible.
I
Mandy (19:45):
mean, I give your friend so much credit for saying
something to you in that momentof saying, like, you don't look
okay or you don't look likeyourself.
And Sort of reflecting back toyou that other people can see
it.
I think that's so importantbecause sometimes people are
afraid to say anything if theysee a friend who's not
themselves, who's off.
I think it's an awkwardconversation.
(20:08):
It can be hard to say somethinglike that.
And so I'm so grateful that thatperson, A, said that, but then
also you were willing to go homeand take a step towards finding
help and being willing.
To go to therapy.
And also, it sounds like you hada great therapist since they,
she, you know, brought you backto your mother's death.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She
Michael (20:28):
knows what she knew what buttons to push right away,
even though I didn't want to,she wasn't budging from the
belly.
No, I don't want to do that.
Cause even though I spoke infront of audiences, talk about
the car crash and stuff, it wasnever about.
depression and suicide andcoming face to face with that.
And through the grief process ofthat time, I read a lot of Brene
(20:48):
Brown's books, vulnerabilityand, and, you know, shame.
And it was interesting becauseit was like, instead of
depression owning me, I flippedthat script a little bit and
talking about it.
is refreshing, you know, andtalking with other men about it
who aren't afraid, you know, ifwe talk about, like, we talk
about sports, then everything isokay, but it's just, and you
(21:09):
know, there's still that stigmaabout men not talking about it
and stuff, but there's reallynothing to be afraid of again,
prior to 2018, I probablywouldn't have done something
like this, you know, like, no,I'm fine, right?
I'm a guy, you know, whatever.
But when you realize how closeyou are to ending your life, and
I thought about it, In my 20s,you know, and I remember having
(21:30):
a dream.
When my mom said, you know,because I would think about my
mom and wanting to be with herand, and sort of doing something
stupid the next morning.
And I remember coming to me in adream.
And she said, Michael, stopworrying about me.
I'm fine.
And she gave me a hug in thedream.
And I woke up face down in thepillow with my arms crossed and.
You know, I was in my midtwenties at that point.
(21:53):
And, you know, that was alifesaver as well, and every
time I get in that depressive,you know, that, that depressing
type of state, you think back tothose type of things about, you
know, what saved you and whyyou're still here and that
purpose and trying to fulfillthat purpose.
Mandy (22:09):
Yeah.
You know, you have such a greatpoint about men and the stigma
that's out there that you haveto have the stronger persona and
You're not expected to showemotion and to admit that you're
struggling and to beexperiencing grief, even though
it's like totally normal forevery human, regardless of
gender.
(22:30):
And so I just give you so muchcredit for being willing now to
step out and talk about it andmake it more normalized.
Like you said, just like we talkabout sports.
I mean, that is.
So important and not enoughpeople are there yet.
And so I'm so grateful to have,you know, your perspective here
on the podcast.
And so the other men can listenand be like, okay, yeah, you
know, it's not just me because Ithink a lot of people get to
(22:52):
those dark places, but they'renot sure that they can talk
about it.
So, so
Michael (22:57):
important.
Yeah.
And I joke, I joke, I go menonly cry two times in their
lives at the end of field ofdreams, when father and son are
playing catch and when our sportteams wins a championship,
that's about it.
That's, that's, that's the twotimes, but yeah, it was you
know, what, what, what was Iafraid of?
Right.
Vulnerability asking for help,which is all signs of strength,
(23:19):
you know, I think, and, andthinking about the loved ones
left behind and, and we bothknow suicide happens too much.
Cause people are afraid to askfor help.
And I think that's, that's theend solution.
And I go back to as dark as Iget, or as low as like, okay, I
just want, just want the pain tostop.
What can I do to level out mybrain chemistry?
(23:42):
What can I do to feel better?
You know, go for a hike,photography, workout see a
movie, play a game, call afriend.
It was amazing after my bookcame out.
So many friends were like, ifyou ever get in that state
again, call.
And that's refreshing.
A lot of people don't think theyhave that.
And I think they do.
They just have to trust anotherperson.
(24:04):
Right.
Mandy (24:05):
Yeah.
Let's talk about your book.
When did you decide that youwere going to write a book?
Michael (24:10):
I didn't decide that.
My friend decided it for me.
So my friend, Greg Morton,who's, who was on America's Got
Talent as a semifinalist a fewyears ago, when we first met in
late nineties, at Hilarity'sComedy Club in Akron, Cuyahoga
Falls.
He heard about my story andwe're getting ready to do the
show in the sound room.
(24:31):
And he said, promise me to writea book about your life.
And he stuck out his hand andwe're shaking on it, but I
wouldn't say I promise.
He wasn't going to let go untilI said, I promise.
And meanwhile, I should be onstage, mind you.
So I said, I promise just to geton stage, it took me 20 years to
write it.
Cause I would start stop nine 11hit stop again.
(24:54):
You know, who cares about mystory?
You know, blah, blah, blah.
And then, and then I wrote itabout, you know, the car crash.
I wrote about my friend, John,who died as a result of being a
drunk driver.
One of my best friends.
I wrote about college, and thenwhen my dad and my aunt passed
away, when I got intocounseling, now here's an ending
(25:15):
to it.
So I kind of finished it, sentit to a company for them to
review it, and they liked it,and they were going to work with
me on, you know, a writingcoach.
Because one of the things shesaid was you wrote it as a
speaker, now you have to writeit as a writer.
I was like, well, what the heckdoes that mean?
So it was like, so every Mondayfor six months I had homework to
do and we met and, and Marianaeven though she's a Philadelphia
(25:37):
Eagles fan and I lost to herlast night with the Dolphins,
she helped me Make this book towhat it is.
It was always paint the scene,put in dialogue and God bless
this woman for really helped memake it to what it is.
I mean, the foundation was thereand all those things.
So it was really Greg Morton whomade me promise to write it.
(25:58):
And then I finished it inJanuary of 2019.
And Greg and I were workingtogether again.
We have many times over theyears and I, and I could finally
look my friend in the eye andsaid, I fulfilled my promise to
you.
And he, and he's very what's theword cautious, but now I'm gonna
say cautious, but he's veryprotective of the book and he
(26:19):
loves it.
And, and I remember his commentswere like, you know, you made me
cry and laugh like on the samepage.
And, it was a lot of humor init.
It's just like some people saidit's like a campfire discussion.
Just having a conversation withme and that's awesome.
But to have a great compliment.
Yeah, it was really cool.
And people I don't even know whowho read it and they'll.
(26:41):
Send me a message on how much ithelped or, or other people, even
my own, even people I've knownfor so long knew some details
they never knew about and ithelped them as well.
And, you know, what do you sayto that when you, when your own
story or whatever can help otherpeople or inspire them to get
help for what it is.
And then it was well worth the20 years of agony of delaying it
(27:03):
for so long.
But time means everything, Iguess.
And if I wrote it when Greg toldme to, it would have been a
little bit different.
I wasn't ready for And somepeople said it could have been
two books, but I put it alltogether in one.
And now people are like, hey,when's your second book?
I'm like, it took me 20 years towrite this one.
It's been five years, but I havean outline for it, trying to
figure out stuff.
(27:24):
I'm a procrastinator.
I'll be honest with you.
I like my naps.
And so we'll see what happenswith this book too, but.
It's, it's called you know, themagic of life, a son's story of
hope after tragedy, grief, and aspeedo.
Cause I was a swimmer, you know,that you're gonna still gonna
put humor in the title of thebook, right?
Yeah.
So it's yeah, lots of humor.
You'll, you'll cry, but at theend, I think maybe inspired.
(27:47):
As well, because as we alludedto at the beginning of this
interview, how different my lifeis, knowing that I almost died
at eight weeks old and to behere 53 years later is, is sort
of a blessing.
Mandy (28:00):
And I just love that, you know, you may not have been here
and it's almost like you've hadthis second opportunity, like
this whole life that almost wastaken away and you're using so
much of it to.
Inspire others or to offer hopeto other people who might be
going through somethingdifficult by, I know that you do
speaking and that you do comedyand you wrote this book.
(28:21):
And so it's like, in differentways, you're kind of getting in
there to different people'slives and touching, you know,
all sorts of people that youprobably don't even realize.
Michael (28:31):
Right.
And that's the cool thing aboutit.
You never know the extension ofyour, your story and other
people.
And I'll show those on stage,wherever.
Anyone's story can inspiresomeone else, you know, your
trials and tribulations, right?
And I think that's prettypowerful.
And I think we owe that tosociety.
Do help as many people,especially now, we look at, you
(28:53):
know, what's going on in theworld and in the communities
where sure you may not be ableto donate a million dollars, but
you can donate your time.
You could help someone for abetter life.
And, and I think between my dadand Dolly, raising me about, you
know giving back.
It is nice, but again, it goback to when I was 15 and that
purpose and never wantinganother family to go through
(29:16):
this same type of trauma grief.
Look, I've been doing for 53years.
It's not a life I want foranyone.
And I shared that with the DUIoffenders.
I'm trying to prevent that, youknow, tell them be a source of
someone's happiness, not thesource of someone's pain and
agony.
Because it's not a good life,but if you go back, yeah, what I
want my mother, to be here atthe same time.
I was at Dolly, right?
(29:37):
So it's very hard to do thatbecause I know how lucky I am in
her life and how her impact wasto so many people too, you know,
from former summers and, and,you know, just people through
life and people who read thebook.
Every one of them says, I wantto meet Dolly, you know, they
pushed me, they pushed me to theside.
They don't want to meet me.
They want to push Dolly, whichis fine.
(29:58):
But also beginning, when Istarted to write the book, she's
like, don't use my name.
So I still embarrass her.
Apparently uh, but yeah, I, butmy story wouldn't be, the book
wouldn't be the same.
It wasn't, you know, with her inthere.
So of course I had to includeit, but she's so.
I think one of the reasons whyshe didn't want her name, she
didn't think, she doesn't thinkwhat she did deserves any
(30:20):
recognition, right?
And she doesn't think it was abig deal.
That's why it has to be in thebook.
That's why people have to knowwho you are.
That's you know, that's just herbecause she just thought it was
no big deal.
Oh, it was a big deal.
Mandy (30:35):
Yeah, and that's one of those things that you can be so
extremely grateful for this giftthat you were given in life that
came in the form of Dolly.
Yeah.
And at the same time be really,you know, hurt that, that your
mom was taken away.
I mean, that's like thisrelationship that we all cherish
and hope that is going to be,you know, super long lasting in
(30:55):
our lives.
And you had it so briefly.
I Do want to ask a little bitabout, you mentioned you do work
with DUI offenders and that youalso had a friend who died
driving drunk.
What is, what is that emotionlike for you?
As someone who has lost a familymember to drunk driving and also
was in the accident herself,like, is there mixed emotion
(31:18):
there?
Do you feel any anger oranimosity towards people who
have made that mistake or do youjust look at it as like, I am
coming here and I'm going tohope to help things going
Michael (31:28):
forward?
Good, good question.
And it's, I'll take one of thoseat a time, but when big, big
John died, I'd say big John,cause he was six, five, 300
pounds.
A lot of anger because he knewmy story for 15 years and he
still did it.
He went to three bars that nightand they let him leave and there
was another customer who saw himstumble to his truck.
(31:50):
That other customer called thepolice on John and he was being
pulled over on a side street,lost control, hit up, went up on
a curb and hit a tree and brokehis neck.
So then I had to call my otherfour best friends up and tell
them this is what happened.
But for him to die as a resultof being a drunk driver.
It was like, wow, you juststabbed me in the front and
back.
(32:10):
It was like, how dare you dothis to me?
And so a lot of anger until theanger is probably there all the
way up until 2020 when we didthe MDR.
And I had to focus on John andthat anger because it was wasted
negative energy.
And I had to forgive him, youknow, for that.
Cause I, as soon as he died thatyear was 2000, it was May 2004.
(32:31):
And I, and I put him into myprogram.
Later that August when I wasdoing the orientation at Kent
State and that was, it was gutwrenching to do that.
And for him it was hard becausethe last time I talked to him
was the week before, the weekbefore he died was the NFL draft
and he called me right after thethe Browns drafted to Kevin
Winslow.
And I remember his big boomingvoice and I won't use the
language he used.
(32:52):
And so it was hard for me towatch the draft after that.
Last time I saw him was at thecomedy club in Cleveland,
Pickwick and Frolic, on mybirthday in 2003.
It took me two years to walkback in that showroom.
I just couldn't do it.
So anger towards John because ofhe should have known better and
that would have been his firstDOI.
(33:12):
The Drunk Drivers is an audienceI never thought I would ever
speak in front of in my entirelife.
And I had an audition, I had ameeting with the judge and then
a year later, so I auditionedwith the other judges and some
didn't think it was going towork, but I've been, we've been
doing it for 10 years now.
And after the first one, when a19 year old girl stopped me on
the way to the parking lot andshe said, thank you for making
(33:33):
me realize my son needs me morethan alcohol.
And I came, but the perspectiveof, I'm going to do my regular
stuff, there's going to becomedy, there's going to be some
audience participation, I'm notgoing to yell at them, they've
already been yelled at by thejudge.
It's going to come from myheart, soul, compassion, you
know, and inspire them and hopefor the best.
And it's been the most rewardingaudience of almost, almost my 30
(33:56):
year career, because you canwatch them change in that hour
and a half.
I make them laugh when they'releaning forward in their chairs
when they first starts.
They're sitting like this.
They don't want to be there.
I remember one guy was cominginto the courtroom and I held
the door open for him and I waswearing my kiss shirt like I
usually do.
So he didn't know who I was.
(34:16):
And he walks in all grumpy,goes, Oh, this is going to be
BS.
And I went, I hope not.
I'm your speaker.
And then afterwards he was thefirst one to come to me, shake
my hand, you know, to donate tothe thing.
And those are the people youwant to change.
You're not going to geteveryone, but man, those, when
you inspire them, uh, cause it'svery easy to go up and you can
(34:37):
yell on them.
They're not going to pay anyattention to that, but since
it's so different, if you makethem laugh and you get rid of
their, their defenses.
And yeah, the first 20 minutesis a little bit of a playtime
before I get into the seriouspart.
And then by that time, they knowabout my humor, my personality.
So I talk about role models andTigger and Spider Man and James
Bond and how they impacted mylives.
(34:59):
And you get in the story andthen when they're leaning
forward and they're askingquestions and their heads are
nodding or they're crying,whatever it is, it's beautiful
because you know you have themand they're going to be
impacted.
And you talk to them as people.
They didn't do anything to me.
I shouldn't be mad at them.
Harvey Dennis isn't the one whodid something to me, but you
(35:20):
know, their, their mothers,their fathers or grandfathers,
whatever it is, and they made abad decision, but they also
didn't kill anyone.
Now's their chance.
To walk out of that courtroomwith a mindset of making better
decisions, not only forthemselves, but for the, all the
innocent drivers out there too.
They have a second chance atthat.
A lot of people don't, you know,so it's been fun and very, very
(35:46):
rewarding.
Mandy (35:47):
And, you know, you said that you, you're not going to
reach everyone, but think abouteach person that you do reach
could be saving potentially.
So many different lives.
I mean, not just lives if theywere to hit someone and kill
someone, but also their own lifeand their immediate family
because addiction is It's noteasy to go through either.
(36:09):
And so even if they're nothurting anyone, and even if
they're not choosing to getbehind the wheel of if, you
know, your speech is whatinspires them to get help in
that respect is, it's a hugeimpact.
So I commend you for doing thatfor sure.
Thanks.
Michael (36:25):
It's fun.
In fact, comedy helped do thatbecause the judges bailiff was a
server at the comedy club when Ifirst started.
So that connection throughcomedy kind of helped.
And we give a, you know, this isall audio.
I've, I've wristbands and saythe magic of life.
I pledge not to drive impairedand it has three sets of
initials on there.
Has BG for my mom, has AM onthere for Andrew Moncheck and
(36:46):
his mom, Andrew was killed by adrunk driver and his mom,
Christine.
speaks to the court with me inthe court program too.
I met her, gosh, I think nineyears ago, and it took me a year
and a half to convince her tospeak.
But her story is so powerful.
And then JK for John Kelly, itsays, I pledge not to drive
impaired.
And we give these out.
And when they take them, I'vehad people through Facebook,
(37:07):
we've been through the program.
You know, still have it on forlike six, seven years, and it's
a good reminder.
Sometimes I remember one, onewoman said, I'm going to take
like five or six for my kids orwhatever, and, and, and I'm out.
So when they take the wristband,you know, as a reminder, again,
it's evidence that they paidattention and they want to make
a change, or they come and theysay, I'm six months sober or a
(37:29):
year sober.
Or, you know, they give you thathug or whatever it is.
It's, you know, and I tell themwe were brought together by
fate.
And the fate is no differentthan like Dolly coming into our
house because, you know, and ourfamily, because the first time
she answered the ad, mygrandmother, she didn't show up
to the interview.
She she said she couldn't find aride.
I said she blew it off, butwhatever.
(37:49):
And then she saw the same ad afew weeks later, and then she
came to the house.
It was an hour away, so fate.
And I tell her, we're broughttogether by fate, and if you
don't believe it, well, I'llprove it.
And, yeah, it's just, I feelblessed.
There's days where I...
I feel tired.
I'm grumpy.
I don't want to do the program.
And I get that and I get thereto the court and I hear the
(38:11):
first laugh.
And then afterwards when, youknow, it's an hour and a half
later and when you fulfill yourpurpose, that's a good day.
And then that re energizes me aswell.
And it's, it's pretty cool when,when you could do that for
someone and not somebody, no, astranger.
And I think that's even better.
But then we become like friendsor whatever, because again, we
(38:33):
talk from the heart and souland, and it's, it's a beautiful
thing.
Mandy (38:38):
It's amazing.
I have one more question that Ithink might be a difficult
question to ask.
So you talked about many yearslater, having to find
forgiveness for John, for theanger that you carried for him
and what he did despite knowingyour story.
Have you, what, well, A, whathappened to the man who was
(39:02):
driving and hit your mom andkilled her did he survive and go
to prison, is he out now, is hestill in prison, and how have
you handled the anger in thatsituation, and have you ever
found forgiveness?
Michael (39:15):
Yeah, tough question.
I'm not going to answer it.
And no, it's valid.
And it's been asked before, evenby myself.
So the man that killed my mothercouldn't, he lied to the police
at the scene.
His license was suspended in1967.
So he shouldn't have beendriving.
And he said his friend who wasin the back seat was the one
driving.
That's a crappy friend for you.
So when he got to the hospital,another officer noticed his eyes
(39:39):
were bloodshot because he liedand he was very combative so we
got to the hospital anotherofficer noticed his eyes were
bloodshot he smelled alcohol hewas combative and then he
finally confessed to driving andto drinking at least a six pack.
So his blood alcohol content waslike 0.
10, like three hours afterwards.
I, when I was in my midthirties, I contracted the
(40:00):
police department and got thepolice report because my dad
wasn't talking.
So I have all, I've got all thisinformation from the police
department.
He couldn't pay his bail of like3, 000.
So when the court case came upin 1971, he was sentenced to
three years with time served myfriend, Christine, who lost her
son.
And like nine years ago, thatguy was sentenced to five years
(40:22):
in jail and got out.
Early.
So you think about justice.
Wow.
Mandy (40:28):
Is that common for such short sentences?
Michael (40:31):
Yeah.
Or they don't serve their entiresentence, right?
They get on good behavior andthe guy that killed Christine's
son was supposed to get alifetime ban on the driver's
license.
They give it back to him.
So again, another slap in theface on this side of the fence
of justice, you know, we alreadyhad the death that's never going
to change, but you're talkingabout anger and stuff like that
(40:52):
stuff happens that just givesthat just makes us even more
mad.
Yeah.
Or Harvey Dennison.
people go, you know, you I'mlike, no, I don't.
A because he took some of t notonly for me, for my b this one
to get someone e a lot.
(41:13):
Now it's coming my, you know, mygrandparent's daughter, my
aunt's sister, he took awaysomething so precious.
I can't give that forgivenessand I don't think that's ever
going to happen because there'sa life that I never knew about
at eight weeks old.
And And that hurts and I don'tthink he deserves that because
(41:34):
and it fuels my motivation tokeep doing what I'm doing even
though I get frustrated there'sgonna be a day where I'm gonna
stop I'll go live in a mountainin a cabin somewhere and just do
photography and be you knowhappy but I'm happy now don't
get me wrong you know but butyeah I think because he
destroyed so much.
You know, I'm okay by not doingthat.
(41:54):
And the people that say you haveto forgive them, no, that's for
them to say, right?
Because we both know people saythings to make their grief feel
better.
Not just for us.
Natural, I get it.
Shouldn't be said, but I guessthat's just the way humans are,
right?
When people say, oh, you shouldbe over by now.
Well, you're saying that for youto feel better, not for me.
(42:16):
This is 24 7.
I live with this day in and dayout.
I
Mandy (42:20):
think we should never say should for anyone else.
You can't expect anything.
You know, everybody's goingthrough their own you know,
everybody's got their own storyand you can't put yourself in
that position if you haven'tlived it and you haven't.
So I absolutely respect thatthat's your take on it.
And I thank you so much forsharing that because I think,
I'm sure it's something you'vegrappled with in your life of
(42:42):
how do you handle these emotionsand what do you do with them?
And, you know, I, I love thatyou have an answer for yourself
and you feel very confident andsecure in that.
And that's what.
That's what's important.
Michael (42:53):
Yeah.
The John one took a while andthen you know, negative energy
and you, you love him like abrother and, and it was just
hard because you stayed mad athim for so long and he was so
lovable.
It's just one of those thingswhere I wish I could just smack
him in the back of the headagain.
And that was tough, especiallyfor someone who knew you story
for 15 years and you kind of go,really?
(43:15):
You know, my mom died, you know,my mom's died, and then you go
ahead and do this too.
But his story resonates withthose drunk drivers so much,
because I put up his picture ofhim graduating from college,
which took him six years to do,and they have, and there's a
picture of him with medals, and,and I said, look, that would
have been John's first DUI, andit cost him his life.
If you keep doing what you'redoing, you could end up like
(43:36):
John, and I don't want that foryou.
I know that pain.
I know that hurt.
We're trying to stop that today.
And they have, and you know,they have that ability to make
that decision.
And it really comes down tochoices and consequences.
You make good choices in life,you get good consequences in
life.
You make horrible, you know,choices, it's going to be
(43:56):
horrible consequences.
And, you know, and that's reallywhat it comes down to.
And You have my story health orJohn's, you know, especially the
DUI offenders or pristine momchecks for her son, then, then
it's a good day at the officeand trying to stop them from
taking away someone else's lovedone.
But it's all preventable.
Yeah.
It's preventable.
Mandy (44:17):
I know.
Wow.
I mean, you're definitely makingan impact and you're doing so
much in that space.
We're better off for you beingout there doing that work
because it's definitely savinglives that you don't know you're
saving.
Michael (44:31):
I appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
Mandy (44:34):
Oh, I so appreciate having you on here today.
Is there anything else you wouldwant to leave people with?
Anything from your story that wedidn't touch on or words of
wisdom you have for people?
Michael (44:44):
Anything I am a huge fan, but they don't they don't
need to know that.
I mean, but I think for peopleif they're listening, you know,
get that help and and have noshame at that Your your life
means something it means I don'teven know you and it means
something to myself Knowing thati've been in that dark place and
knowing I hate to say becauseother a lot of other speakers
say well if I could do it, youcould do it, too But I am going
(45:05):
to do that So if I could getmyself out of that dark hole
that i've been in for that timeis 47 years You could do that
too.
Little by little.
There's are, there are people tohelp you out.
You just have to find thatstrength to do it.
And it, it's a blessing when youcould, come outta that, that
hole a little bit, you know,whether it's a combination of
meds and therapy, but meds won'tdo it alone.
(45:26):
Therapy definitely helps.
So yeah, if anyone out there, Iwould say, you know, get, get
that help.
'cause your life means a lot toa lot of people.
Thank you.
Mandy (45:37):
Can you just share the name of your book one more time
and where people can find you ifthey want to get in touch and
connect with you.
Michael (45:44):
People can find me on Facebook or Instagram.
Facebook, it's Michael Gersh, GE R S H E.
On Instagram, it's G E R S H E PI X.
So it's GershPix.
I thought I was very creative inthat.
The book you can find on Amazonagain, you can look me up,
Michael Gersh, or The Magic ofLife, A Son's Story of Hope
(46:06):
After Tragedy, Grief, andEspito.
The website for the foundationis themagicoflife.
org.
So there's, there's multipleways, but yeah, come and find
me.
I mean, I try to post funnythings on a daily basis on, on
Facebook if I can.
And or, you know, other, otherfun things.
It's not all kiss pictures on,on Facebook.
I
Mandy (46:27):
can tell you have definitely a great energy, so
I'm sure people will want tofollow along because, you know,
it's so nice when people cantalk about serious topics, but
also keep it, you know, sort oflight and fun and show that you
have this whole range of humanemotion and it's all, it's all
Michael (46:41):
good.
Well, I'm also in denial.
So that helps humor.
Look, humor saved my life manytimes and having that you know,
is that defense mechanism.
I go back to my role models,Tigger, very, you know, bouncing
around, making sure people arepeople having a good time.
Spider Man used humor as adefense mechanism.
James Bond used humor as adefense mechanism.
(47:03):
So I was blessed with a sense ofhumor and that's really helped.
That was a good natural way.
Thank you.
to combat trauma and grief.
And there's nothing better thanstaying on stage and making an
audience of strangers laugh, butalso when you could do it on a
daily basis.
So I have two goals on a dailybasis.
It's make, make someone laughand make a difference in
someone's life.
(47:24):
I can come home and do that.
That was a good day for me.
Michael's story is one thatspans his entire lifetime.
A thread that weaves througheverything.
In the episode we spoke aboutthe complex topic of
forgiveness.
Of the forgiveness he found forhis friend, big John.
And his contemplation andacceptance that he does not
forgive the man who perpetuatedthe sorrow on his family.
(47:48):
For today's journal prompt,write about forgiveness.
The forgiveness you have givenand the forgiveness you can not.
Let the writing lead you inwhatever direction it takes.
Thank you so much for listening,please make sure you subscribe,
share this episode with anyonewho could benefit from it.
And as always.
Does it remember grams?
Anytime you need to send alittle love to someone who is
(48:09):
grieving.
Thank you and have a wonderfulday.
Hello, and welcome back to thegrief trails podcast.
I'm your host, Amanda.
Kernaghan from remember grams.
A small business dedicated tohelping you support those in
your life.
Experiencing grief.
I hope you'll consider sendingsomeone a personalized card or a
grape support box shippingwithin the us as a waste free.
We treat each order with specialcare paying attention to every
(00:22):
detail.
Today on the podcast, we'll betalking about something we've
all heard about.
Maybe we remember the assembliesand high school that taught us
about the dangerous of drinkingand driving.
Or we know someone who's gottenbehind the wheel while
intoxicated.
We see the accidents on the sideof the road or on the evening
news, or we know someone who'sbeen personally impacted by a
(00:44):
drunk driver.
The statistics, even now aftereducational campaigns and
stretch laws are stillstaggering.
On average 37 people die everyday in the U S as a result of
impaired driving.
Now think back to the 1970s.
Back to when cars were not madeto the same intense safety
(01:04):
regulations that we requiretoday.
Back before seatbelt laws andcar seats.
Our guests today, Michael Gersh,Comedian and author of the book,
the magic of life, a son storyof hope after tragedy, grief,
and a Speedo.
I was just a baby.
When an accident caused by adrunk driver, changed his life
forever.
(01:24):
Let's take a lesson.
Mandy (01:26):
So your story starts long ago and probably before your
memory even is there, but tellme.
However you would start yourstory of your life and what
happened to you.
Michael (01:39):
Sometimes I think my memory back then might be better
than it is now.
I was I was eight weeks old whengrief and trauma hit our family.
My father was driving his homefrom Long Island.
And when I say us as my brother,who was three, my mom, who was
the front middle seat.
And I was next to my mom and alittle baby carrier next to her.
There weren't any car seats.
(02:00):
1970, like the word, like the80s.
Right.
And we were less than a mileaway from our house when a drunk
driver plowed through theintersection and t boned the
car.
Because we were going throughthe intersection.
We had the green light and thedrunk driver plowed through the
red light on his side.
T boned the car, the force ofthe impact totaled the cars.
It pushed our car into atelephone pole and split it all
the way up to the dashboard.
(02:21):
So when the first respondersarrived, they found my Mother,
father, and brother.
They didn't find me until like10, 15 minutes later.
And someone's a family sandwichbetween the door and the dash of
the car.
And then the four of us weretaken to the hospital.
My brother didn't have a scratchon them at all, which is pretty
much of a miracle.
But you hear about drunk driverswho walk away.
(02:44):
Sometimes they run away, but noinjuries, but also people who
are sleeping and you know, in.
They can't tense up, right?
So my brother had no idea.
My dad had to get stitches onhis face from the windshield
breaking and hitting him.
My mom was taken into surgery.
As for me, all my bones werenearly broken.
My skull was completelyfractured from one side of my
(03:04):
head to the other.
So the fact I'm 53 years old andtalking to you today is nothing
short of a miracle as well.
Mandy (03:11):
Wow.
And just to think about the factthat we didn't have car seats
the way we do today.
Yeah, exactly.
And the fact that you were ableto survive without that kind of
safety that we now rely on is.
Yeah.
That's
Michael (03:23):
crazy.
Yeah.
And I was like, if I didn't knowthe hospital and the doctors
were telling my dad, well, I wastouching go, they had no idea if
I was going to survive and, andI had to get numerous blood
transfusions and they had to putme on a special board.
They couldn't, you know Put mein a cast because I was all
cartilage, so it was sort of await and see type of thing.
(03:44):
And then I had to go back formonths afterwards, make sure I
didn't have any brain damage.
I think I'm fine.
My friends would say maybe not,but they're not here on this
interview.
So I think I'm okay.
But with all my injuries, I grewup to be a competitive swimmer.
I went to college on a swimmingscholarship.
I chased my dream of being acomedian.
(04:05):
I wrote a book about my life, alittle memoir, a photographer.
So knowing how blessed I am tobe here on a daily basis, even
on the dark days, you still kindof go, well, I'm sort of lucky
to be here.
Now, my mom unfortunately diedthe next morning due to her
injuries and she was 28 yearsold.
So I'm a mother's child whonever knew his mom because of a
(04:27):
drunk driver, you know, I mean,I never heard my mom's laugh her
name, her voice, you know, thatmemory, no recognition of it at
all.
So it's been one of thosejourneys of a lot of what ifs in
terms of, of your life, youknow, what happened and that
would.
Go crazy in their brain for along time, but swimming helped
(04:49):
having a sense of humor helpedas a defense mechanism, I would
swim angry in college, I wasn'tlike an angry person, but I was
angry at Harvey Dennison whokilled my mom angry at God,
angry at my father for nevertalking about it, it was a good,
healthy outlet to deal withgrief and trauma, even growing
up.
It was swimming.
It was Spider Man.
It was Star Wars.
(05:09):
It was books.
It was reading to escape, youknow, whatever it was, and then
the older you get, you realizeyou really can't escape from
that.
And then it starts to hit moreand more in terms of you start
questioning things about why areyou alive and, and my mother's
death and the grief in terms ofthe trauma.
Even though my brother and Iwere raised by a Jamaican woman,
along with my dad.
(05:31):
So, this woman named Dolly, sheanswered an ad my grandmother
put in the newspaper for parttime help.
You know, Dolly is originallyfrom Jamaica.
She was in England at the time,working in Scotland Yard.
And she was visiting her sisterin New York for three months.
Saw the ad, figured let me finda job while I'm here.
It's only part time, right?
Well, what was supposed to be apart time job turned into a
(05:52):
lifetime.
So she raised me, my brother asher own flesh and blood.
And, you know, she's 92 yearsold, lives in South Florida, not
too far away from my brother.
And you know, she, she steppedinto a horrible situation of us
losing her mom and it became amotherhood role for us.
So we got lucky with her.
Because she taught me aboutunconditional love and human
(06:13):
spirit and all those wonderfulqualities we should have in
life.
So along with her, my dad, theyraised us.
And my dad was never the sameperson ever again, obviously,
never talked about it, you know,and it was a different era in
terms of dealing with grief andtrauma.
For
Mandy (06:33):
sure.
Yeah, I think it's definitelychanged rapidly over the
decades.
How people are willing to openup and talk about things that
have happened.
I know like my grandmother, somy father's mother died very
young and his dad refused totalk about it.
And like, it was just verysecretive and quiet and
everything.
So I think that is a positivechange in our culture.
We're getting there, right?
(06:54):
We have this whole podcast andmany others that talk about
grief.
So that's a step in the rightdirection.
But for you, Knowing that likeyou had no memory of this
happening and no memory of yourmom, what, do you, do you
remember how old you were whenyou learned about what had
happened and, and figured outthat she had died and how that
had
Michael (07:13):
happened?
I was really young.
It had to be grade schoolbecause on every school's form,
you had to write mother's name.
And it was.
You know, deceased.
I remember, I recall my dad'shandwriting for deceased.
Then after a while, you know,you start, I start writing in as
well.
And no one ever asked why orhow, but it was early on in my
life.
And then of course you realizesomething's a little bit
(07:34):
different when, you know, it'sthree white guys and a black
woman, right?
And there was no, so, you know,your family dynamic is
different.
And that's all I knew that was,you know, normal.
Dolly would spend, the job wasMonday through Friday and she
would stay in my room.
So I would, you know, play hideand seek with her through the
crib bars and stuff, and sothat's all I knew, but I can't
(07:56):
really pinpoint a specific age,but I know it was early on and
in my youth I guess you couldsay that I knew that my mother
was dead and I didn't know itwas drunk driving to high school
though, because I went into mydad's room to get his wallet,
and next to the wallet was thepress release.
And that's how I found out I wasdrunk driving, and that's what
put me into Students AgainstDrunk Driving.
(08:19):
That's what it was called backthen, and it kind of put me on
the path to share my story to,to make a difference.
And that's
Mandy (08:25):
right around the age when we start having like assemblies
at school, right?
And learning about drunk drivingand, you know, as kids are
preparing to be driversthemselves.
So it's interesting that that'swhen you learned the cause and
where you immediately feltcalled to get involved in those
organizations.
And Yeah, I did.
Michael (08:45):
I remember doing something in high school.
We would do these plays to thejunior high about drugs and
stuff.
And I grew up in Miami, Florida.
So we're talking Scarface, MiamiVice era, where drugs were, you
know, part of the Miami culture.
And I still remember MercuryMorse coming to my high school.
Not too soon after MiamiDolphins wide receiver Murphy
(09:05):
Morris, who got busted forcocaine, and he was bitter and
angry and scared the crap out ofme to like, no, no, I'm never
going to do drugs.
And so, yeah, back then it wasthose scared straight programs
right where it wasn't like myprogram involves comedy and
audience participation and in,you know, to inspire them I
don't want to, you know, it'snot doom and gloom, where a lot
(09:27):
of programs are I don't think itworks for students but back
then.
80s, you know, it was, I was alldoom and gloom, you know, for
those things and, and that hadan impact, but also for me,
going out with my friends, youknow, knowing, even though my
dad would say, you know, I don'tcare what time it is, just call,
but I never wanted to disappointthem.
And he wouldn't answer anyway,because he was fast asleep in a
(09:48):
lazy boy chair anyway.
So, you know, just resting hiseyes as he would like to say.
Oh, yeah.
Right.
But yeah, it was just you'reright around that pivotal time
of 15, you know, 16, where Ithink for me, I discovered
purpose, and it was not wantingother families to go through
this and knowing that and thenin college, it was become a peer
(10:09):
educator and then.
campus activities board and knowthat you could be a speaker for
those type of things.
And then, then grad school forhigher education and, you know,
being a part of that atmosphereand an environment.
So it all kind of blendedtogether after a while about
purpose and what I could do withmy story and, and try to save
some lives.
Mandy (10:31):
So I know you said your dad didn't openly talk about
what had happened with you.
Did you and your brother talkabout it openly?
And did your brother ever getinvolved in these types of
things?
Or has he handled it differentlyand not wanted to speak on it?
Michael (10:44):
No, we really don't.
He remembers bits and pieces ofthe car crash.
And he had some memories of mymom and his adjustment.
Afterwards was really tough as athree year old because when my
dad would go to work, he wouldcry.
He would throw a fit because,you know, one day mom didn't
come home.
So he had that separationanxiety.
So they had to do differentstuff for him.
(11:05):
Even he had to get adjusted toDolly.
One time, I think it finallyhappened when it was his turn to
go to bed and Dolly was on thephone.
And she said to Jeff, yourgrandmother will put you to bed.
And he sat down on the floor andhe said, I'll, I'll wait for
you.
And you know, Dolly was talkingabout tennis.
She would never get off thephone anyway.
So it was probably a long waitknowing her, but he had that
(11:27):
hard of adjustment, but we neverreally talked about it because
of, you know, memories and thosetypes of things.
And, and my brother is, if hehears this, probably to say
something, but he was like, myfather hides it, you know,
doesn't want to talk about it.
Even when my father passed away,my aunt passed away 90 days
apart.
Where I ended up in griefcounseling, six, seven months
(11:49):
later, he still had a hard timewith it.
And my brother, my dad had astronger bond.
I think my brother, my aunt hada stronger bond because I live
in Ohio, they live in SouthFlorida.
So it was, you know, they gottogether more, but I think my
brother maybe channeled his.
grief and trauma a different waythan me, but he's, he teaches
(12:10):
kids how to swim.
So we're both doing something tosave lives just in a different
way.
So, you know, we were bothswimmers and then just like, I
get tired of reading myarticles, people dying, my drunk
driving, he does the same thing,kids drowning and stuff.
So, you know, we're, we're bothdoing something that's impacting
the world, hopefully on a betterpace, not hopefully it is.
(12:32):
Yeah, for sure.
He never talked about it.
I know he, one time he talkedabout having memories of the car
crash, but that's as far as itwent.
And you don't want to push andprod, right?
Because you push and prod, asyou know, you don't know what
that reaction will be like withthat person, especially if
they're not ready to process it.
Mandy (12:49):
Yeah, I know.
I think this young age, it makesme think about, often I talk
with guests about when we lose aloved one and you may experience
this with your dad because Iknow you said you lost your dad
also, but sometimes when theanniversary is coming up or
their birthday is coming up,it's almost like, even if you
consciously forget that it'scoming, your body sometimes
(13:12):
knows it's coming and like,it's, yeah.
It's almost as if grief hassettled in your body and it
remembers things that havehappened even if you don't and
it makes me think about youbeing so young and just a baby
and this is sort of how yourlife began was this, this big
loss of your mom and how muchprobably did impact the
(13:32):
trajectory of your life in waysthat you maybe still don't even
fully understand or grasp howDifferent you are from that,
like how much of that settles inyour body.
You know what I mean?
Michael (13:45):
Right?
I've done a lot of, I wouldn'tsay a lot of reading, but some
books about that.
There was, I was in a book cluband we did, did Oprah's book,
you know, what happened to youand, and reading about.
Childhood and infant trauma likethat and not having my mother's
touch how that and not being,you know, excited to be picked
up in a pillow for monthsafterwards.
(14:06):
So I didn't have that connectionwith a human book, a human, but
it wasn't even if it was Dollyor my dad, it still wasn't my
mom and reading that and howthat could impact relationships
down as an adult.
Was an eye opener because Iwent, well, now here's cause and
effect.
Maybe it's not all me.
Well, maybe it still is me, but,but I can understand it in terms
(14:28):
of stuff.
And that was really fascinatingbecause you realize there's a
science behind that and thetrauma and how that can, as
early as being an infant,because all the way the brain
soaks in everything.
And then the long lasting impactwas really fascinating to read
not only that, but also yourparents trauma, how that
(14:51):
trickles down to us.
So my dad's grief and trauma waspassed down to my brother and
myself.
Cause my dad never did anythingabout it.
So that was just another layerand I emulated what he did when
he died, never talked about ituntil there was one day where I
had that plan and I'm done and,I couldn't do it because I
(15:12):
couldn't send my brother andDolly and other family members
back to the cemetery three timeswithin six months and my friends
as well.
And along with I, you know, mymother didn't sacrifice her life
so I can live, you know, and Ireally believe that she did
something in that split secondto save my life.
So no car seats.
But I think it was mother'sintervention then, or, you know,
(15:35):
just how quality of cars werebuilt back in 1970, you know,
for that, but there wassomething in that area, but
yeah, it's amazing.
And being a swimmer now that I'ma little bit older and I hurt, I
think it's just trauma.
It's not my bones just achingfrom the weather or all the
swimming or I'm just old.
It's, it was the car crash forthat, but you're, it's amazing.
(15:57):
How much the body has towardsthat trauma.
I'm a little bit more aware ofit within the last five years of
going to counseling and justdoing some research about it
where I never was.
And that's refreshing too,because also I know when my
serotonin levels dropped, theanniversaries, the birthdays, my
mom's birthday is July 21st,mine's July 24th.
(16:19):
So you have the birthdays.
And those eight weeks up to thecar crash, where you go back and
what was life like, you know,and those types of things.
So you do slide down a littlebit, but then grief counseling
gave me the tools to try to findbalance where I never really had
that before.
And that's been a lifesaver.
Yeah.
And
Mandy (16:38):
so your dad died, you said five years ago
Michael (16:42):
now.
And he died in January of 2018.
And then my aunt died 90 dayslater.
That was his sister.
Mandy (16:50):
And so, did those losses like bring up unresolved grief
about your mom that you hadn'trealized or what made you decide
to go to counseling and did itstir up things?
Michael (17:03):
Turn about my mom not until you just said that, but
Well, the counseling part, itwas just, I was doing a
fundraiser for our nonprofit andmy friend was taking pictures
for new pictures.
And and even that day I had aplan I had, it was the same week
that, kate Spade and AnthonyBourdain kill themselves.
(17:23):
And, and it was a bad week.
I was like, I'm not going to seethe end of this week.
And I had the plan andeverything.
And I had lunch with mycounselor, who's a dear friend
of mine and another friend,because we were talking about
doing a stand up to grief typeof thing.
Three, three men comedians doingcomedy, but also sharing their
stories of, of grief.
And we're having lunch.
It goes, you don't look likeyourself.
(17:44):
And I'm trying to do the bestjob to hide myself.
Right.
And the eyes don't lie.
Cause even my friend said, wecan't use these pictures because
your eyes are sad.
And it's like you try.
And so I went home that day fromthat lunch and I went onto the
website and I filled up, youknow, everything was yes, except
for being pregnant.
And we, we met.
(18:05):
And the first question mycounselor said was, let's talk
about your mom's death and howthat impacted all your
relationships.
And I was like, I'm not here totalk about my mom.
I'm here to talk about my dadand aunt.
She's like, Oh no, we're notbudging off of this.
And I was 47 years old andfinally processing and working
through my mom's death.
And, and for so long, I thoughtI identified as a victim and
(18:28):
survivor of a drunk drivingcrash, you know, 100%.
That was, that's who I am.
And I realized that's not who Iam.
It's a part of me, but it's notall of me.
So we worked my mom's death andthen moved to my dad's death and
then my aunts and because I, youknow, I was hiding all that
pain.
And again, I didn't want to die.
I just wanted the pain to stop.
And I wasn't going to selfmedicate because we both know
(18:49):
how, how well that goes.
So, you know, I just couldn'tget out of that hole.
And then counseling was a hardsix months.
You put the work in and, and mycounselor said, after that time,
she goes, you look like adifferent person.
I feel like a different person.
That was 2000 18.
I went back again in 2020 aroundthe 50th anniversary, and I
(19:10):
don't know if it's because ofturning 50 car crashed 50.
I went back and then we did EMDRand my counselor was like, are
you willing to do this?
I'm willing to do whatever ittakes and.
It was, you know, again, hard todo, but I had to fix, I was the
problem and I had to fix myself.
I couldn't, you know, blameanyone else.
I couldn't live like thatanymore.
(19:31):
And even when you get to thedarkest days, I still thought of
my friends and my brother andDolly and family members, not
going back to that, you know,cemetery.
So I had to do whatever it hadto, to find peace and happiness
as much as possible.
I
Mandy (19:45):
mean, I give your friend so much credit for saying
something to you in that momentof saying, like, you don't look
okay or you don't look likeyourself.
And Sort of reflecting back toyou that other people can see
it.
I think that's so importantbecause sometimes people are
afraid to say anything if theysee a friend who's not
themselves, who's off.
I think it's an awkwardconversation.
(20:08):
It can be hard to say somethinglike that.
And so I'm so grateful that thatperson, A, said that, but then
also you were willing to go homeand take a step towards finding
help and being willing.
To go to therapy.
And also, it sounds like you hada great therapist since they,
she, you know, brought you backto your mother's death.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She
Michael (20:28):
knows what she knew what buttons to push right away,
even though I didn't want to,she wasn't budging from the
belly.
No, I don't want to do that.
Cause even though I spoke infront of audiences, talk about
the car crash and stuff, it wasnever about.
depression and suicide andcoming face to face with that.
And through the grief process ofthat time, I read a lot of Brene
(20:48):
Brown's books, vulnerabilityand, and, you know, shame.
And it was interesting becauseit was like, instead of
depression owning me, I flippedthat script a little bit and
talking about it.
is refreshing, you know, andtalking with other men about it
who aren't afraid, you know, ifwe talk about, like, we talk
about sports, then everything isokay, but it's just, and you
(21:09):
know, there's still that stigmaabout men not talking about it
and stuff, but there's reallynothing to be afraid of again,
prior to 2018, I probablywouldn't have done something
like this, you know, like, no,I'm fine, right?
I'm a guy, you know, whatever.
But when you realize how closeyou are to ending your life, and
I thought about it, In my 20s,you know, and I remember having
(21:30):
a dream.
When my mom said, you know,because I would think about my
mom and wanting to be with herand, and sort of doing something
stupid the next morning.
And I remember coming to me in adream.
And she said, Michael, stopworrying about me.
I'm fine.
And she gave me a hug in thedream.
And I woke up face down in thepillow with my arms crossed and.
You know, I was in my midtwenties at that point.
(21:53):
And, you know, that was alifesaver as well, and every
time I get in that depressive,you know, that, that depressing
type of state, you think back tothose type of things about, you
know, what saved you and whyyou're still here and that
purpose and trying to fulfillthat purpose.
Mandy (22:09):
Yeah.
You know, you have such a greatpoint about men and the stigma
that's out there that you haveto have the stronger persona and
You're not expected to showemotion and to admit that you're
struggling and to beexperiencing grief, even though
it's like totally normal forevery human, regardless of
gender.
(22:30):
And so I just give you so muchcredit for being willing now to
step out and talk about it andmake it more normalized.
Like you said, just like we talkabout sports.
I mean, that is.
So important and not enoughpeople are there yet.
And so I'm so grateful to have,you know, your perspective here
on the podcast.
And so the other men can listenand be like, okay, yeah, you
know, it's not just me because Ithink a lot of people get to
(22:52):
those dark places, but they'renot sure that they can talk
about it.
So, so
Michael (22:57):
important.
Yeah.
And I joke, I joke, I go menonly cry two times in their
lives at the end of field ofdreams, when father and son are
playing catch and when our sportteams wins a championship,
that's about it.
That's, that's, that's the twotimes, but yeah, it was you
know, what, what, what was Iafraid of?
Right.
Vulnerability asking for help,which is all signs of strength,
(23:19):
you know, I think, and, andthinking about the loved ones
left behind and, and we bothknow suicide happens too much.
Cause people are afraid to askfor help.
And I think that's, that's theend solution.
And I go back to as dark as Iget, or as low as like, okay, I
just want, just want the pain tostop.
What can I do to level out mybrain chemistry?
(23:42):
What can I do to feel better?
You know, go for a hike,photography, workout see a
movie, play a game, call afriend.
It was amazing after my bookcame out.
So many friends were like, ifyou ever get in that state
again, call.
And that's refreshing.
A lot of people don't think theyhave that.
And I think they do.
They just have to trust anotherperson.
(24:04):
Right.
Mandy (24:05):
Yeah.
Let's talk about your book.
When did you decide that youwere going to write a book?
Michael (24:10):
I didn't decide that.
My friend decided it for me.
So my friend, Greg Morton,who's, who was on America's Got
Talent as a semifinalist a fewyears ago, when we first met in
late nineties, at Hilarity'sComedy Club in Akron, Cuyahoga
Falls.
He heard about my story andwe're getting ready to do the
show in the sound room.
(24:31):
And he said, promise me to writea book about your life.
And he stuck out his hand andwe're shaking on it, but I
wouldn't say I promise.
He wasn't going to let go untilI said, I promise.
And meanwhile, I should be onstage, mind you.
So I said, I promise just to geton stage, it took me 20 years to
write it.
Cause I would start stop nine 11hit stop again.
(24:54):
You know, who cares about mystory?
You know, blah, blah, blah.
And then, and then I wrote itabout, you know, the car crash.
I wrote about my friend, John,who died as a result of being a
drunk driver.
One of my best friends.
I wrote about college, and thenwhen my dad and my aunt passed
away, when I got intocounseling, now here's an ending
(25:15):
to it.
So I kind of finished it, sentit to a company for them to
review it, and they liked it,and they were going to work with
me on, you know, a writingcoach.
Because one of the things shesaid was you wrote it as a
speaker, now you have to writeit as a writer.
I was like, well, what the heckdoes that mean?
So it was like, so every Mondayfor six months I had homework to
do and we met and, and Marianaeven though she's a Philadelphia
(25:37):
Eagles fan and I lost to herlast night with the Dolphins,
she helped me Make this book towhat it is.
It was always paint the scene,put in dialogue and God bless
this woman for really helped memake it to what it is.
I mean, the foundation was thereand all those things.
So it was really Greg Morton whomade me promise to write it.
(25:58):
And then I finished it inJanuary of 2019.
And Greg and I were workingtogether again.
We have many times over theyears and I, and I could finally
look my friend in the eye andsaid, I fulfilled my promise to
you.
And he, and he's very what's theword cautious, but now I'm gonna
say cautious, but he's veryprotective of the book and he
(26:19):
loves it.
And, and I remember his commentswere like, you know, you made me
cry and laugh like on the samepage.
And, it was a lot of humor init.
It's just like some people saidit's like a campfire discussion.
Just having a conversation withme and that's awesome.
But to have a great compliment.
Yeah, it was really cool.
And people I don't even know whowho read it and they'll.
(26:41):
Send me a message on how much ithelped or, or other people, even
my own, even people I've knownfor so long knew some details
they never knew about and ithelped them as well.
And, you know, what do you sayto that when you, when your own
story or whatever can help otherpeople or inspire them to get
help for what it is.
And then it was well worth the20 years of agony of delaying it
(27:03):
for so long.
But time means everything, Iguess.
And if I wrote it when Greg toldme to, it would have been a
little bit different.
I wasn't ready for And somepeople said it could have been
two books, but I put it alltogether in one.
And now people are like, hey,when's your second book?
I'm like, it took me 20 years towrite this one.
It's been five years, but I havean outline for it, trying to
figure out stuff.
(27:24):
I'm a procrastinator.
I'll be honest with you.
I like my naps.
And so we'll see what happenswith this book too, but.
It's, it's called you know, themagic of life, a son's story of
hope after tragedy, grief, and aspeedo.
Cause I was a swimmer, you know,that you're gonna still gonna
put humor in the title of thebook, right?
Yeah.
So it's yeah, lots of humor.
You'll, you'll cry, but at theend, I think maybe inspired.
(27:47):
As well, because as we alludedto at the beginning of this
interview, how different my lifeis, knowing that I almost died
at eight weeks old and to behere 53 years later is, is sort
of a blessing.
Mandy (28:00):
And I just love that, you know, you may not have been here
and it's almost like you've hadthis second opportunity, like
this whole life that almost wastaken away and you're using so
much of it to.
Inspire others or to offer hopeto other people who might be
going through somethingdifficult by, I know that you do
speaking and that you do comedyand you wrote this book.
(28:21):
And so it's like, in differentways, you're kind of getting in
there to different people'slives and touching, you know,
all sorts of people that youprobably don't even realize.
Michael (28:31):
Right.
And that's the cool thing aboutit.
You never know the extension ofyour, your story and other
people.
And I'll show those on stage,wherever.
Anyone's story can inspiresomeone else, you know, your
trials and tribulations, right?
And I think that's prettypowerful.
And I think we owe that tosociety.
Do help as many people,especially now, we look at, you
(28:53):
know, what's going on in theworld and in the communities
where sure you may not be ableto donate a million dollars, but
you can donate your time.
You could help someone for abetter life.
And, and I think between my dadand Dolly, raising me about, you
know giving back.
It is nice, but again, it goback to when I was 15 and that
purpose and never wantinganother family to go through
(29:16):
this same type of trauma grief.
Look, I've been doing for 53years.
It's not a life I want foranyone.
And I shared that with the DUIoffenders.
I'm trying to prevent that, youknow, tell them be a source of
someone's happiness, not thesource of someone's pain and
agony.
Because it's not a good life,but if you go back, yeah, what I
want my mother, to be here atthe same time.
I was at Dolly, right?
(29:37):
So it's very hard to do thatbecause I know how lucky I am in
her life and how her impact wasto so many people too, you know,
from former summers and, and,you know, just people through
life and people who read thebook.
Every one of them says, I wantto meet Dolly, you know, they
pushed me, they pushed me to theside.
They don't want to meet me.
They want to push Dolly, whichis fine.
(29:58):
But also beginning, when Istarted to write the book, she's
like, don't use my name.
So I still embarrass her.
Apparently uh, but yeah, I, butmy story wouldn't be, the book
wouldn't be the same.
It wasn't, you know, with her inthere.
So of course I had to includeit, but she's so.
I think one of the reasons whyshe didn't want her name, she
didn't think, she doesn't thinkwhat she did deserves any
(30:20):
recognition, right?
And she doesn't think it was abig deal.
That's why it has to be in thebook.
That's why people have to knowwho you are.
That's you know, that's just herbecause she just thought it was
no big deal.
Oh, it was a big deal.
Mandy (30:35):
Yeah, and that's one of those things that you can be so
extremely grateful for this giftthat you were given in life that
came in the form of Dolly.
Yeah.
And at the same time be really,you know, hurt that, that your
mom was taken away.
I mean, that's like thisrelationship that we all cherish
and hope that is going to be,you know, super long lasting in
(30:55):
our lives.
And you had it so briefly.
I Do want to ask a little bitabout, you mentioned you do work
with DUI offenders and that youalso had a friend who died
driving drunk.
What is, what is that emotionlike for you?
As someone who has lost a familymember to drunk driving and also
was in the accident herself,like, is there mixed emotion
(31:18):
there?
Do you feel any anger oranimosity towards people who
have made that mistake or do youjust look at it as like, I am
coming here and I'm going tohope to help things going
Michael (31:28):
forward?
Good, good question.
And it's, I'll take one of thoseat a time, but when big, big
John died, I'd say big John,cause he was six, five, 300
pounds.
A lot of anger because he knewmy story for 15 years and he
still did it.
He went to three bars that nightand they let him leave and there
was another customer who saw himstumble to his truck.
(31:50):
That other customer called thepolice on John and he was being
pulled over on a side street,lost control, hit up, went up on
a curb and hit a tree and brokehis neck.
So then I had to call my otherfour best friends up and tell
them this is what happened.
But for him to die as a resultof being a drunk driver.
It was like, wow, you juststabbed me in the front and
back.
(32:10):
It was like, how dare you dothis to me?
And so a lot of anger until theanger is probably there all the
way up until 2020 when we didthe MDR.
And I had to focus on John andthat anger because it was wasted
negative energy.
And I had to forgive him, youknow, for that.
Cause I, as soon as he died thatyear was 2000, it was May 2004.
(32:31):
And I, and I put him into myprogram.
Later that August when I wasdoing the orientation at Kent
State and that was, it was gutwrenching to do that.
And for him it was hard becausethe last time I talked to him
was the week before, the weekbefore he died was the NFL draft
and he called me right after thethe Browns drafted to Kevin
Winslow.
And I remember his big boomingvoice and I won't use the
language he used.
(32:52):
And so it was hard for me towatch the draft after that.
Last time I saw him was at thecomedy club in Cleveland,
Pickwick and Frolic, on mybirthday in 2003.
It took me two years to walkback in that showroom.
I just couldn't do it.
So anger towards John because ofhe should have known better and
that would have been his firstDOI.
(33:12):
The Drunk Drivers is an audienceI never thought I would ever
speak in front of in my entirelife.
And I had an audition, I had ameeting with the judge and then
a year later, so I auditionedwith the other judges and some
didn't think it was going towork, but I've been, we've been
doing it for 10 years now.
And after the first one, when a19 year old girl stopped me on
the way to the parking lot andshe said, thank you for making
(33:33):
me realize my son needs me morethan alcohol.
And I came, but the perspectiveof, I'm going to do my regular
stuff, there's going to becomedy, there's going to be some
audience participation, I'm notgoing to yell at them, they've
already been yelled at by thejudge.
It's going to come from myheart, soul, compassion, you
know, and inspire them and hopefor the best.
And it's been the most rewardingaudience of almost, almost my 30
(33:56):
year career, because you canwatch them change in that hour
and a half.
I make them laugh when they'releaning forward in their chairs
when they first starts.
They're sitting like this.
They don't want to be there.
I remember one guy was cominginto the courtroom and I held
the door open for him and I waswearing my kiss shirt like I
usually do.
So he didn't know who I was.
(34:16):
And he walks in all grumpy,goes, Oh, this is going to be
BS.
And I went, I hope not.
I'm your speaker.
And then afterwards he was thefirst one to come to me, shake
my hand, you know, to donate tothe thing.
And those are the people youwant to change.
You're not going to geteveryone, but man, those, when
you inspire them, uh, cause it'svery easy to go up and you can
(34:37):
yell on them.
They're not going to pay anyattention to that, but since
it's so different, if you makethem laugh and you get rid of
their, their defenses.
And yeah, the first 20 minutesis a little bit of a playtime
before I get into the seriouspart.
And then by that time, they knowabout my humor, my personality.
So I talk about role models andTigger and Spider Man and James
Bond and how they impacted mylives.
(34:59):
And you get in the story andthen when they're leaning
forward and they're askingquestions and their heads are
nodding or they're crying,whatever it is, it's beautiful
because you know you have themand they're going to be
impacted.
And you talk to them as people.
They didn't do anything to me.
I shouldn't be mad at them.
Harvey Dennis isn't the one whodid something to me, but you
(35:20):
know, their, their mothers,their fathers or grandfathers,
whatever it is, and they made abad decision, but they also
didn't kill anyone.
Now's their chance.
To walk out of that courtroomwith a mindset of making better
decisions, not only forthemselves, but for the, all the
innocent drivers out there too.
They have a second chance atthat.
A lot of people don't, you know,so it's been fun and very, very
(35:46):
rewarding.
Mandy (35:47):
And, you know, you said that you, you're not going to
reach everyone, but think abouteach person that you do reach
could be saving potentially.
So many different lives.
I mean, not just lives if theywere to hit someone and kill
someone, but also their own lifeand their immediate family
because addiction is It's noteasy to go through either.
(36:09):
And so even if they're nothurting anyone, and even if
they're not choosing to getbehind the wheel of if, you
know, your speech is whatinspires them to get help in
that respect is, it's a hugeimpact.
So I commend you for doing thatfor sure.
Thanks.
Michael (36:25):
It's fun.
In fact, comedy helped do thatbecause the judges bailiff was a
server at the comedy club when Ifirst started.
So that connection throughcomedy kind of helped.
And we give a, you know, this isall audio.
I've, I've wristbands and saythe magic of life.
I pledge not to drive impairedand it has three sets of
initials on there.
Has BG for my mom, has AM onthere for Andrew Moncheck and
(36:46):
his mom, Andrew was killed by adrunk driver and his mom,
Christine.
speaks to the court with me inthe court program too.
I met her, gosh, I think nineyears ago, and it took me a year
and a half to convince her tospeak.
But her story is so powerful.
And then JK for John Kelly, itsays, I pledge not to drive
impaired.
And we give these out.
And when they take them, I'vehad people through Facebook,
(37:07):
we've been through the program.
You know, still have it on forlike six, seven years, and it's
a good reminder.
Sometimes I remember one, onewoman said, I'm going to take
like five or six for my kids orwhatever, and, and, and I'm out.
So when they take the wristband,you know, as a reminder, again,
it's evidence that they paidattention and they want to make
a change, or they come and theysay, I'm six months sober or a
(37:29):
year sober.
Or, you know, they give you thathug or whatever it is.
It's, you know, and I tell themwe were brought together by
fate.
And the fate is no differentthan like Dolly coming into our
house because, you know, and ourfamily, because the first time
she answered the ad, mygrandmother, she didn't show up
to the interview.
She she said she couldn't find aride.
I said she blew it off, butwhatever.
(37:49):
And then she saw the same ad afew weeks later, and then she
came to the house.
It was an hour away, so fate.
And I tell her, we're broughttogether by fate, and if you
don't believe it, well, I'llprove it.
And, yeah, it's just, I feelblessed.
There's days where I...
I feel tired.
I'm grumpy.
I don't want to do the program.
And I get that and I get thereto the court and I hear the
(38:11):
first laugh.
And then afterwards when, youknow, it's an hour and a half
later and when you fulfill yourpurpose, that's a good day.
And then that re energizes me aswell.
And it's, it's pretty cool when,when you could do that for
someone and not somebody, no, astranger.
And I think that's even better.
But then we become like friendsor whatever, because again, we
(38:33):
talk from the heart and souland, and it's, it's a beautiful
thing.
Mandy (38:38):
It's amazing.
I have one more question that Ithink might be a difficult
question to ask.
So you talked about many yearslater, having to find
forgiveness for John, for theanger that you carried for him
and what he did despite knowingyour story.
Have you, what, well, A, whathappened to the man who was
(39:02):
driving and hit your mom andkilled her did he survive and go
to prison, is he out now, is hestill in prison, and how have
you handled the anger in thatsituation, and have you ever
found forgiveness?
Michael (39:15):
Yeah, tough question.
I'm not going to answer it.
And no, it's valid.
And it's been asked before, evenby myself.
So the man that killed my mothercouldn't, he lied to the police
at the scene.
His license was suspended in1967.
So he shouldn't have beendriving.
And he said his friend who wasin the back seat was the one
driving.
That's a crappy friend for you.
So when he got to the hospital,another officer noticed his eyes
(39:39):
were bloodshot because he liedand he was very combative so we
got to the hospital anotherofficer noticed his eyes were
bloodshot he smelled alcohol hewas combative and then he
finally confessed to driving andto drinking at least a six pack.
So his blood alcohol content waslike 0.
10, like three hours afterwards.
I, when I was in my midthirties, I contracted the
(40:00):
police department and got thepolice report because my dad
wasn't talking.
So I have all, I've got all thisinformation from the police
department.
He couldn't pay his bail of like3, 000.
So when the court case came upin 1971, he was sentenced to
three years with time served myfriend, Christine, who lost her
son.
And like nine years ago, thatguy was sentenced to five years
(40:22):
in jail and got out.
Early.
So you think about justice.
Wow.
Mandy (40:28):
Is that common for such short sentences?
Michael (40:31):
Yeah.
Or they don't serve their entiresentence, right?
They get on good behavior andthe guy that killed Christine's
son was supposed to get alifetime ban on the driver's
license.
They give it back to him.
So again, another slap in theface on this side of the fence
of justice, you know, we alreadyhad the death that's never going
to change, but you're talkingabout anger and stuff like that
(40:52):
stuff happens that just givesthat just makes us even more
mad.
Yeah.
Or Harvey Dennison.
people go, you know, you I'mlike, no, I don't.
A because he took some of t notonly for me, for my b this one
to get someone e a lot.
(41:13):
Now it's coming my, you know, mygrandparent's daughter, my
aunt's sister, he took awaysomething so precious.
I can't give that forgivenessand I don't think that's ever
going to happen because there'sa life that I never knew about
at eight weeks old.
And And that hurts and I don'tthink he deserves that because
(41:34):
and it fuels my motivation tokeep doing what I'm doing even
though I get frustrated there'sgonna be a day where I'm gonna
stop I'll go live in a mountainin a cabin somewhere and just do
photography and be you knowhappy but I'm happy now don't
get me wrong you know but butyeah I think because he
destroyed so much.
You know, I'm okay by not doingthat.
(41:54):
And the people that say you haveto forgive them, no, that's for
them to say, right?
Because we both know people saythings to make their grief feel
better.
Not just for us.
Natural, I get it.
Shouldn't be said, but I guessthat's just the way humans are,
right?
When people say, oh, you shouldbe over by now.
Well, you're saying that for youto feel better, not for me.
(42:16):
This is 24 7.
I live with this day in and dayout.
I
Mandy (42:20):
think we should never say should for anyone else.
You can't expect anything.
You know, everybody's goingthrough their own you know,
everybody's got their own storyand you can't put yourself in
that position if you haven'tlived it and you haven't.
So I absolutely respect thatthat's your take on it.
And I thank you so much forsharing that because I think,
I'm sure it's something you'vegrappled with in your life of
(42:42):
how do you handle these emotionsand what do you do with them?
And, you know, I, I love thatyou have an answer for yourself
and you feel very confident andsecure in that.
And that's what.
That's what's important.
Michael (42:53):
Yeah.
The John one took a while andthen you know, negative energy
and you, you love him like abrother and, and it was just
hard because you stayed mad athim for so long and he was so
lovable.
It's just one of those thingswhere I wish I could just smack
him in the back of the headagain.
And that was tough, especiallyfor someone who knew you story
for 15 years and you kind of go,really?
(43:15):
You know, my mom died, you know,my mom's died, and then you go
ahead and do this too.
But his story resonates withthose drunk drivers so much,
because I put up his picture ofhim graduating from college,
which took him six years to do,and they have, and there's a
picture of him with medals, and,and I said, look, that would
have been John's first DUI, andit cost him his life.
If you keep doing what you'redoing, you could end up like
(43:36):
John, and I don't want that foryou.
I know that pain.
I know that hurt.
We're trying to stop that today.
And they have, and you know,they have that ability to make
that decision.
And it really comes down tochoices and consequences.
You make good choices in life,you get good consequences in
life.
You make horrible, you know,choices, it's going to be
(43:56):
horrible consequences.
And, you know, and that's reallywhat it comes down to.
And You have my story health orJohn's, you know, especially the
DUI offenders or pristine momchecks for her son, then, then
it's a good day at the officeand trying to stop them from
taking away someone else's lovedone.
But it's all preventable.
Yeah.
It's preventable.
Mandy (44:17):
I know.
Wow.
I mean, you're definitely makingan impact and you're doing so
much in that space.
We're better off for you beingout there doing that work
because it's definitely savinglives that you don't know you're
saving.
Michael (44:31):
I appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
Mandy (44:34):
Oh, I so appreciate having you on here today.
Is there anything else you wouldwant to leave people with?
Anything from your story that wedidn't touch on or words of
wisdom you have for people?
Michael (44:44):
Anything I am a huge fan, but they don't they don't
need to know that.
I mean, but I think for peopleif they're listening, you know,
get that help and and have noshame at that Your your life
means something it means I don'teven know you and it means
something to myself Knowing thati've been in that dark place and
knowing I hate to say becauseother a lot of other speakers
say well if I could do it, youcould do it, too But I am going
(45:05):
to do that So if I could getmyself out of that dark hole
that i've been in for that timeis 47 years You could do that
too.
Little by little.
There's are, there are people tohelp you out.
You just have to find thatstrength to do it.
And it, it's a blessing when youcould, come outta that, that
hole a little bit, you know,whether it's a combination of
meds and therapy, but meds won'tdo it alone.
(45:26):
Therapy definitely helps.
So yeah, if anyone out there, Iwould say, you know, get, get
that help.
'cause your life means a lot toa lot of people.
Thank you.
Mandy (45:37):
Can you just share the name of your book one more time
and where people can find you ifthey want to get in touch and
connect with you.
Michael (45:44):
People can find me on Facebook or Instagram.
Facebook, it's Michael Gersh, GE R S H E.
On Instagram, it's G E R S H E PI X.
So it's GershPix.
I thought I was very creative inthat.
The book you can find on Amazonagain, you can look me up,
Michael Gersh, or The Magic ofLife, A Son's Story of Hope
(46:06):
After Tragedy, Grief, andEspito.
The website for the foundationis themagicoflife.
org.
So there's, there's multipleways, but yeah, come and find
me.
I mean, I try to post funnythings on a daily basis on, on
Facebook if I can.
And or, you know, other, otherfun things.
It's not all kiss pictures on,on Facebook.
I
Mandy (46:27):
can tell you have definitely a great energy, so
I'm sure people will want tofollow along because, you know,
it's so nice when people cantalk about serious topics, but
also keep it, you know, sort oflight and fun and show that you
have this whole range of humanemotion and it's all, it's all
Michael (46:41):
good.
Well, I'm also in denial.
So that helps humor.
Look, humor saved my life manytimes and having that you know,
is that defense mechanism.
I go back to my role models,Tigger, very, you know, bouncing
around, making sure people arepeople having a good time.
Spider Man used humor as adefense mechanism.
James Bond used humor as adefense mechanism.
(47:03):
So I was blessed with a sense ofhumor and that's really helped.
That was a good natural way.
Thank you.
to combat trauma and grief.
And there's nothing better thanstaying on stage and making an
audience of strangers laugh, butalso when you could do it on a
daily basis.
So I have two goals on a dailybasis.
It's make, make someone laughand make a difference in
someone's life.
(47:24):
I can come home and do that.
That was a good day for me.
Michael's story is one thatspans his entire lifetime.
A thread that weaves througheverything.
In the episode we spoke aboutthe complex topic of
forgiveness.
Of the forgiveness he found forhis friend, big John.
And his contemplation andacceptance that he does not
forgive the man who perpetuatedthe sorrow on his family.
(47:48):
For today's journal prompt,write about forgiveness.
The forgiveness you have givenand the forgiveness you can not.
Let the writing lead you inwhatever direction it takes.
Thank you so much for listening,please make sure you subscribe,
share this episode with anyonewho could benefit from it.
And as always.
Does it remember grams?
Anytime you need to send alittle love to someone who is
(48:09):
grieving.
Thank you and have a wonderfulday.
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