December 6, 2023 • 40 mins
Desiree, a certified grief educator and coach, joins us to openly share the stories of how she lost each of her parents. One to sudden loss, one to a slow decline from a neurologic disease that required Desiree to become a caregiver. Join us to find the connection that can happen when we talk about our grief and see where in life it takes us.
To connect with Desiree, check out her website, www.desireedoucet.com, or some of her free resources below:
"Understanding Grief: 12 Essential Insights", anyone may download it here: https://desireedoucet.com/understanding_grief/
A free webinar on "Graceful Grief during the Holidays" - can be accessed here: https://desireedoucet.com/graceful_grief_mc/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/desiree.doucet/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/desireedoucetcoach
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/desireedoucet/
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Thank you so much for listening. Wishing you well on whatever trail you find yourself walking today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, and welcome back to thegrief trails podcast.
I am your host, Amanda.
Kernaghan from remember grams.
A small business dedicated tohelping you support those in
your life.
Experiencing grief.
I hope you'll consider sendingsomeone a personalized card or a
grief support box.
Shipping within the us hasalways free and we treat each
order with special care payingattention to every detail.
(00:24):
Today on the podcast is Deseret.
Doucet a certified griefeducator and professional coach
who works with women as theynavigate midlife.
Does Ray experience sudden lossas a young person, when her dad
died unexpectedly.
And later in life, she lost hermom in a slow decline where she
became her caretaker.
Through these contrastingexperiences, Deseret knows
(00:47):
firsthand.
The grief is a human emotion.
And it can bring us tounexpected moments of
connection.
If we allow ourselves.
The safety and opening up toothers.
Opening up is exactly whatDeseret does here with us today.
Let's take a listen.
As she brings us back to theloss of her dad.
Desiree (01:04):
That was something that it was very surprising he passed
two days after Christmas.
We had just had.
A really great Christmastogether as a family.
And I was about to graduate fromcollege.
So the way that I was theyoungest of what he called the
first crop.
So the first, my parents weremarried for 22 years and I was
(01:25):
the youngest of their children.
And then he got remarried andthey had two children.
And so that was the second crop.
And so when he would introduceme, sometimes that would be me
and him.
And then my half.
brother or whatever.
And they'd be like, Oh, is thisyour daughter?
And he'd be like, yeah, she'sthe youngest from the first
crop.
But my dad and I had thisspecial bond, especially the
three musketeers, like me and myhalf brother and my dad, partly
(01:48):
because I was of babysitting agewhen he was born.
So it was very convenientbecause my dad did not change
diapers.
And my stepmom would go off, youknow, and do girl things on
Saturdays.
And and then my dad would getLeft with a kid and he'd be like
you need to come over and visit.
So we bonded a lot but my dadand I had like a conversation
(02:08):
that the evening of when he diedand my sister and I went to the
movies together and one of ourthings that we got to have when
we were in school was he neverwanted us to use the excuse that
we couldn't afford gas to comevisit him.
So he gave us a gas credit card.
And so she was like, let's go tothe gas station and stock up on
candy and shove it in our purseand go to the movies.
(02:29):
And so we had gone to the moviesthat day.
And while we're at the movies,he left me a voicemail or this
was back in the day of theanswering machines.
I was fancy and had a digitalone, but he left me a message.
And that was the last I calledhim afterward.
And we're going to have lunchthe next day.
I was going to drive, you know,lived about an hour from where
(02:50):
he lived.
I was in school and.
Go have lunch with him.
And the next thing I knew, mysister was tracking me down and
telling me that he had died of amassive heart attack.
And it was shocking.
I had a cousin pass away aboutthree weeks before that in a car
accident.
And that was also shocking, butI knew the tone of voice when my
(03:12):
sister called me that somethingI was like, this is, this is a
repeat of what I.
Spoke to her three weeks ago.
I just knew.
And so that was, it was really,it rocked my world because it
put us, you know, I just turned21.
I was about to graduate fromcollege.
I was choosing where I wanted tolive and work and it was a
pivotal time and ended updeciding to move out of
(03:34):
Louisiana.
I'm born and raised inLouisiana.
So I moved away.
Partly to run away from thememories, and start a new life.
And so I think that really didmake very different decisions
for me.
It's it spurred me in adifferent direction.
And so I've been living outsideof Atlanta for 24 years now.
(03:55):
Wow.
Mandy (03:56):
Yeah.
I was also in my 20s.
My mom also died of a heartattack.
It was very sudden.
And so that experience, I knowwhat you're talking about when
you're like, it was so shocking.
And I think at that age, we justare so oblivious to the things
that can happen.
And you just feel so secure andyour parents and, and if you
have no reason to question theirhealth or anything like that,
(04:17):
you just assume they're stillgoing to be there.
And it can absolutely just rockthe access that you're on.
yeAh.
At such a pivotal point in yourlife, right?
You know, you're just gettingready to launch into your
independence and adulthood.
So, so that is what made youdecide to move away instead of
staying.
I feel like for some people theyhave the opposite reaction where
they want to like stay closerbecause of that.
(04:40):
And some people want to movefurther away.
Desiree (04:42):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting because
looking back on it now, Iremember somebody that I knew a
friend from college was like, Ican't believe you finished
school.
And I was like, girl, whatchoice did I have?
Like, my dad was the financialrock of our family.
And I had to get out and startmaking money.
I didn't have a choice.
I didn't see myself as having achoice to grieve.
(05:04):
People didn't know what to sayto me.
And I remember walking around atcampus, you know, it's the
beginning of a semester and it'smy last semester and I had a
really cool student job.
I worked in the athleticdepartment doing their computer
support.
It was crazy fun and peoplewould be like, you're a girl and
you could take apart.
It was really cool, but I had areally cool boss.
(05:25):
And we were busy, you know,closing out a new state is a lot
of work, a lot of paperwork.
Because of the family dynamic.
You know, we were involved alot.
And so it was just, it was a lotto deal with in that last
semester, before I moved away.
And even afterwards.
But it was like, I would walkthrough the world and I was
(05:46):
like, people don't even knowthat my whole life, your
foundation is rocked.
And so it was a very differentexperience.
My mom passed in 2019.
We'll get to that in a littlebit.
Very different experience.
And I went to grief educatortraining, partly to help me
heal.
And I trained with a gentlemannamed David Kessler.
(06:08):
He's a grief expert.
He's an amazing human being.
He's a therapist.
And he said that death shapesthe grief, or the loss shapes
the grief.
Because grief is not just theloss of our loved ones.
It is a recurring theme.
It's a human experience.
We, I don't think we give creditto other forms of grief besides
just losing people.
(06:29):
But he says the, the loss shapesthe grief.
And I saw that so clear with theloss of both my parents.
Cause my dad was sudden and Isaid, wow, that's like exhausted
from being hit from a traumatic.
Experience like being hit by,you know, a large vehicle, like
being a pedestrian trying tocross the street and a large
vehicle hits you.
It is traumatic.
(06:49):
It takes you down and it's justlike, wow.
Whereas after my mom had aprolonged illness and so after
caregiving for her and watchingher slip away, that was like
being exhausted at the end of amarathon, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
I like that comparison.
Yeah.
So but anyway, in between, Ikind of had a break in my
(07:12):
losses, which was a little bitnice.
But I had, it's like, thanks.
Thanks for the break life.
I appreciate that.
But we surely made up for it inthe last couple of years.
I, I was married.
I got married and I want to sayit was 2013.
My then father in law gotdiagnosed with mesothelioma.
He was in the Navy, and it was aservice related illness.
(07:36):
He was on submarines in the 60s,and that is a very common, it's
lung cancer formed caused byasbestos.
I don't know if you know aboutthat, but it's terminal, and
there's really, they can treatit, but there's really not
anything they can do.
And it's a very specializedcancer.
So walking through that and Ijust jumped into like giving
(07:57):
mode of I've been through thisjourney and it's hard and let me
love them as much as I can.
And that was a hard journey.
And then, and I was already inmy marriage was already in
trouble.
And we were in counseling andgrief doesn't help that at all.
No.
And, and then shortly after hepassed, I got some information
(08:17):
that I was like, my marriage isover.
And that was hard.
And then I got talked out of it.
And then his mom got diagnosedwith cancer and he was like,
well, you can't leave.
And it was just, it was a reallyhard time.
And but I was like, something'swrong with my mom.
But my mom was one of thosepeople that was just like, I'm
fine.
I don't know what it is, butwhen her voice started changing
(08:39):
and she couldn't swallow and wetake her to a GI doctor, we take
her to, you know, and they werelike, you really need to get in
with a neurologist in the townshe lived in.
There was a shortage ofneurologists.
And so that took a lot.
And it.
My aunt ended, my mom's sisterended up going and sitting in
the office, sitting in thewaiting room, like, I am not
leaving until my sister gets anappointment with somebody.
(09:01):
And so she was, she had apreliminary diagnosis of ALS,
but they had to rule a couple.
ALS is a disease of like, theyhave to rule everything else out
before they can say, yeah, youhave it.
It's a disease that's not reallyunderstood very well.
And so she got diagnosed and andmy sister said, well, at least
we have a diagnosis now.
(09:22):
And I'm like, well, there'snothing we can do about this one
either.
My mom didn't really want anymassive interventions, you know,
kind of quality of life stuff.
anD that was really difficultbecause my sister and I both
live out of state.
So I live about.
9 to 10 hours by car from herand my sister lives about 12 to
14.
Mandy (09:41):
And so we're like, Hey, I mean that diagnosis is scary.
Like, let's just say thatbecause it's not like you know,
I think when people think aboutterminal illness, you often
think of cancer.
And ALS is not a cancer, but itis a degenerative disease that
causes really severe, terriblesymptoms that are.
Just devastating to watch so andyou knew she was going to need
(10:04):
help at that
Desiree (10:05):
point.
Oh, oh, yeah And we're like,okay, where do you want to move?
Atlanta Kansas City where whereshe's like, I'm not moving and
we're like, okay, so, We bothhad jobs that allowed us to work
remotely.
My job was remote.
Thank goodness.
And my bosses were superunderstanding and I felt like I
had just started to get back upfrom my divorce because that
(10:28):
really knocked me back a lotmore.
And then I lost 2 pets in themiddle of the year.
And you just, at some point youbecome so numb, that it doesn't
even, you don't even feel thingsanymore.
And so.
My mom, I had gone to yogateacher training, which that was
a blessing in between like theend of my divorce and my mom
getting diagnosed.
And I needed that.
(10:49):
So I spent a lot of time with mymom and my sister and I just
looked at each other and we'relike, no regrets.
We know what it's like to lose aparent.
No regrets.
And ALS is, we didn't knowanything about it.
I remember when my mom was sickand we were trying, where it was
before her neurologistappointment, there's a gentleman
who played, so I'm fromLouisiana, so everybody's Saints
fans.
And there's a player from theSaints.
(11:11):
And he is diagnosed with ALS,uh, Steve Gleason is his name.
And so he's got the GleasonFoundation.
And I remember my cousin postedsomething like an interview with
Steve Gleason.
And I was watching it and I waslike, this is what mom has.
And I knew it.
And it was so horrible for me toeven consider it.
(11:32):
I was like, no, she doesn't.
But something inside of me knewthat that's what she had.
And, so I started learning alittle bit about it.
You know, it's degenerative,it's a neurodegenerative, so it
impacts your whole body and shehad both forms, so she had
bulbar and limb which means thatthey lose the ability to swallow
and when you're Cajun, you kindof live for the food, it's so
(11:55):
conflicting, so that was really,it was hard, you know, like you
start to feel guilty abouteating around her and she can
smell it, but she can't haveany, and it just, it was, It was
a constant, the care.
I did not understand the care.
I had never been involved in.
It's just a lot.
And you don't even have time.
(12:17):
You're so physically exhausted.
You're emotionally exhausted.
And then we were both trying, wehave a brother that lives down
there and we had my mom's twosisters.
My mom was unmarried.
And so the kids really, we werepulling the night shift.
So from 7pm to 7am, and we werelucky enough to be able to
afford having caregivers duringthe day.
(12:38):
So 7am to 7pm, we had peoplethere, but she wasn't sleeping
through the night.
So our sleep was trash.
And then she decided to, at thelast minute to get a feeding
tube, which that was, it wasjust, one thing that I learned
is when you're dealing withsomeone who has a terminal
illness, if I could give anydirection is have empathy for
(13:02):
their journey.
And their choices, because youcan look at, and I learned this
in coach training schools, youknow, we don't know what's best
for somebody else, but it can bevery easy when someone has a
terminal illness to say, this iswhat you need to do.
And I was politicking for my momto get that feeding tube and she
didn't want it and she didn'twant it and she didn't want it.
(13:24):
And then at the last minute shedecided to get it.
And I was on a business trip.
I had a business trip plannedfor.
You know, some business meetingsacross the country.
And it was, it was scary.
And I was, I was a little bitangry and I was like, what if
she dies?
And I'm, you know, on my way toPortland, Oregon.
And how do I, you know, like,this is, it just was freaking me
out, but it also forces you tolet go to some degree.
(13:48):
anD one thing that I would liketo instill, if somebody's in the
middle of a caregiving journey,well, understanding that there's
anticipatory grief.
So there's grief before you evenhave the loss.
But one thing I remember havingthis conversation with my mom's
hospice nurse, we had the mostincredible care team for my mom.
And is that you can have momentsof joy in the middle of losing
(14:11):
someone.
And we had an amazing lastbirthday for my mom.
I kept saying, what do you wantto do for your birthday?
She's like, I don't want to doanything.
And she hated goodbyes.
Just even like leaving mynephews, you know, when she went
to visit, it was just hard forher.
And.
I didn't think that she wanted,you know, I don't think she
wanted to know what was going tohappen for her birthday because
it would feel like a giant dayof goodbyes and we planned.
(14:35):
She would go to bed like superearly and so we decorated the
whole house like we gotstreamers and put them in all
the doorways and we had likestuff hanging from everything
all over the ceiling.
We had silly little party hatsand everybody in silly little
glasses and everybody that cameover had to put it on and take
pictures with her so.
It was just an incredible dayand it was almost like a living
(14:58):
memorial so that she, I said,mom, if there is any gift in
your illness, it's so that youcan see how much you are loved
before you leave this earth.
And I wholeheartedly believethat she knew how much she had
been loved because she hadpoured so much love and care
into other people.
And so that gives mesatisfaction.
(15:19):
Beautiful memory.
Yeah.
And we had a lot of fun and likewhen she got the feeding tube,
I'm not going to lie.
Like I'm a squeamish.
I am not like the hospice nursewas like, you would be a great
nurse.
I'm like, what kind of crazinessare you thinking?
I would not be a good nurse.
I would pass out.
I was like, I do this because Ilove my mother.
It's called a peg tube andthat's the type of feeding tube
(15:42):
she had.
So I was like, I would, itscared me because I was like,
what if I get squeamish and Ican't do this?
What if I can't care for her?
And so I was like, let me justturn this into funny.
So I would just take the tubeand I talk into it like a
microphone and be like, goodmorning, Peggy.
How are you doing in there?
Did you have a good night ofsleep?
And it was, it brought somelevity to the situation.
(16:03):
And I was like, you know, we'regoing to make the best out of
this.
And we tie dyed her hot when shehad to get a hospital bed.
We tie dyed her sheets.
We got her white sheets and Itied item and, and I would send
pictures to the hospice nurseand he'd be like, y'all got it
going on, you know, and I tied,I'd heard this dress with a A
red heart in the center and whenthe funeral home came to pick
(16:26):
her up, they were like, what doyou want her to dress in?
And I was like, we're, we'resending her with the hippie
dress.
She's gonna, she's gonna go offwith that.
And it was just, it's a timewhere you're really tested
you're exhausted, but there'salso so much beauty.
And Brene Brown shares is youcan't selectively numb and you
(16:47):
want to numb the pain, but thosejoyful memories are priceless.
Did it
Mandy (16:53):
feel for you, because you had the experience of losing
your dad in such a differentway, did it feel like you sort
of got a do over with your mom,where you got to like, say
things or have these memorieswith her that you didn't get to
do with your dad, right, becauseit was so sudden, and you didn't
know it was coming?
Desiree (17:11):
One thing that I did, that's a great, you just jogged
a memory of something I'd loveto share.
In a way, yes.
And I remember leaving one day,it was probably about two months
before she died, and thinking, Idon't want to leave her but I
needed to, I mean, I have ahouse, you know, like somebody's
got to come back here and checkon the thing.
(17:33):
And I did have some workresponsibility.
I mean, I had things, I had alife, you know, I needed to come
home occasionally.
I could stay about two weeks,then I have to come home for, a
couple days, then I go back.
And I had the most flexibleschedule because I was single
and didn't have kids.
But I was like, how can I feelgood about this, knowing that my
time with her so limited.
So I would sit down every dayand write her a letter.
(17:57):
And I'd print it off.
It was just, you know, I type itout.
And it was about a memory thatwe had or something that I
admired about her or justsharing.
I, I don't, I don't evenremember all of them, but every
day I committed to doing that.
It only took me 10 or 15 minutesand I would put it in the mail
and I would mail it to her.
And I have like a bunch of oldChristmas envelopes.
So it was like wacky.
(18:17):
I was like, I'm just going touse what we have.
And she never acknowledged themto me.
She never said, I got your, Imean, she couldn't speak, but
she never communicated to methat she ever read them.
And so I had asked thecaregivers, I'm like.
Are my little red envelopes,like, are they getting there?
She's like, yeah, they are.
And cause I didn't know cause mymom, I think it was just
(18:40):
probably too painful.
And some of them she threw inthe trash.
My mom still, she could notspeak anymore, but you certainly
got her personality.
It came through there.
This whole nonverbalcommunication is a thing.
Like she could tell you with onelook in her eyes that she was
displeased and you knew exactlywhy.
(19:01):
And so, you know, she didn't,she didn't keep them all, but it
was my way of knowing that I hadbeen able to communicate.
It was my opportunity tocommunicate with her how much I
loved her, how much she meant tome, the things that I remember.
And I would love to turn thoseletters into a book one day.
Because being able, that wassuch a gift for me to do that.
(19:24):
And, you know, past me wouldhave been like, put expectations
on others.
Like you guys should do this.
If somebody hears this podcastepisode and they have the idea
and it gives them peace andenclosure.
And, you know, I'd love, I'dlove for people to be able to
read about that.
My nephews, I mean, even if it'sjust my nephews and my sister.
But one thing that I realized alot in her passing and, or in my
(19:46):
grief education is.
All of our relationships are sodifferent.
I had a very differentrelationship with my dad than my
brother did.
So he mourned his loss verydifferently.
My dad was really hard.
He didn't know how to relate toa son, the family dynamic on
that side of the family.
They're just mean to each other.
The fathers and sons can just bereally awful.
(20:08):
Whereas daughters are, it's atotally different relationship.
So my, I think my brother wascloser to my mom.
So that loss was harder on him.
And You know, my sister and Iwere talking about it and she
was grieving very differentlyand she's like, why are you not
crying?
And I'm like, oh, I've beencrying for a year and a half and
she just, you know, We all justhave different relationships.
We're going to grieve lossesdifferently Every and what i've
(20:31):
come to understand is like, youknow, we grew up in the same
family But my sister's six yearsolder than me.
So even yesterday she was like,well didn't papa teach you how
to do blah blah blah And i'mlike girl you had to a two
parent family until you went tocollege when I was 12 Our
parents got divorced.
Like, by the time I had a car,nobody would care.
It was like, here's the grocerylist, go shopping.
(20:52):
Like, you know, like, no.
I was like, he had two youngkids.
Like, he didn't have time forme.
He didn't teach me anythingabout car maintenance.
I learned it on YouTube.
You know, reading the manual andso she was like, wow, it's been
enough of those experiences forher to realize like my
relationship, her relationshipwith my brother and my
(21:13):
relationship with my brother,very different and the dynamic
is different.
Our parents are different.
And so.
One thing that has given me suchgrace in understanding grief
journeys is we're all going togrieve differently.
And the grieving is thisinternal process.
The mourning is what you see,the crying and the processing.
(21:33):
And also understanding how to besupportive to people in grief.
If someone loses someone closeto them, even if they're like an
acquaintance, I will go to thefuneral.
Because I know how much it meantto me to be there to witness
their grief and I could notexplain it, but I was like, I
always go to the funeral.
(21:54):
My sister and I have this rule.
We're like, we always go to thefuneral.
I never regret it.
And when I took David Kessler'sgrief educator class, he said,
the most healing thing that wecan do for other people in grief
is to witness their grief.
And if we can have anonjudgmental space where we
allow them to share openly.
And he said, you know, the onlytime it's okay for you to
(22:16):
interject with your story is, isif it's in service to them.
And he's like, nobody wants towin the struggle Olympics.
We don't, comparison is notgoing to help.
And I was like, Oh, that's sobeautiful.
And I love the way that hedistilled all of that because
it's helped me help otherpeople.
Like, I don't know what to say.
(22:37):
I'm like, you don't have to sayanything.
Right.
You just, just go be present.
Mandy (22:43):
And to do that also outside of services, like to a
week or two or a month later, ortwo months later, ask the person
to go on a walk and just bequiet and let them talk if they
want to talk and let them bequiet if they want to be quiet.
And, you know, Those kinds ofthings, making time without
expectation, making time forsilence and quiet and letting
(23:04):
them have that space but with asupportive person is I think the
greatest gift we can give
Desiree (23:09):
each other.
Yeah, because we're seeing theother person in their humanity.
And the other thing that I wouldoffer is One thing that people
are afraid of is bringing up theanniversary.
So their, their birthdates andtheir anniversary of the loss
and.
It was David Kessler told thisreally interesting story and in
(23:31):
our training, and he said, Iremember it was like, you know,
9 years after I lost my mom orit had been a period of years.
And he said, you know, it's been9 years today since I lost my
mom.
And he was talking to a coworkeror somebody in his circle.
And they said, wow, you know,it's been 9 years.
Like, you know, you.
You're still thinking aboutthat.
And he was like, let me guess.
You've never had someone closeto you.
(23:54):
You've never lost someone closeto you.
And they were like, yeah, yeah,you're right.
And they were like, how'd youknow?
And he was like, because if youhad, you would understand and.
Another thing that has, so I, somention it, don't be afraid to
mention it because they'rethinking about it.
99 percent chance they, they areaware.
And if they're not aware,something in their body is
(24:17):
remembering the time of year.
So my dad died two days afterChristmas.
My mom died two days afterThanksgiving.
I'm like, thanks! That wasfantastic! So it's not, you
know, the fourth quarter is notthe most fun for me, but it's
okay because I give myselfgrace.
And I'm like, I am going to makenew memories.
And I jokingly, after my momdied, my sister, you know, we
(24:40):
were like, we can go to dinner.
We can go out to, let's go getcheese dip and margarita.
It's like, we're free, right?
It's, but we got to therestaurant.
She's like, can we ask for atable in the back so we can sit
and cry like in a box?
This is sad, but yeah, we alsosaw the humor in it, but I
looked at her and I said, I justfeel so unmoored, like.
(25:00):
We don't have parents anymore.
And I was like, and I'm divorcedand I don't have children.
I'm in my 40s.
I'm probably not gonna havekids.
Maybe I'll adopt one day.
I don't know.
I mean at this point It's like Idon't even know what to expect
out of life, which is finebecause it's kind of like a
surprise, but I was like, I'munsupervised.
(25:21):
I said, there's nobody that cantell me what to do.
Right.
And so I was like, this is, it'sfrightening, but it's also
exhilarating.
And so I was like, if I wantedto go, you know, to Cancun for
Christmas or to who knows, youknow, like, maybe I want to go
to Switzerland and spendChristmas there.
Like I have the margin to do it.
(25:44):
And so that's what I'm steppinginto my new life.
And then I got back to work andCOVID hit and I knew my job was
in jeopardy.
I lost my job.
And I was like, what do I wantto be when I grow up?
Because even though I loved mycareer and I was good at what I
did I didn't want to do thatanymore.
And so that's when I jumped intogrief educator, being a coach
(26:05):
and helping people navigate.
I feel like my passion ishelping people navigate
difficult stuff and not losetheir sense of self and their
joy, their appetite for joy andstaying in that growth mindset
of What can I take from thismoving forward in my life?
And so that's what I've beenfocused on building this
(26:26):
business and healing.
And healing takes time,especially when you have
multiple losses, give yourselfgrace.
Mandy (26:34):
Wow.
I mean, it is weird the waythings work out.
You know, I'm sure when you were21, you didn't think you were
going to be a grief educator,but here you are.
And.
I also I wanted to go back tothis point you talked about how
you wrote the letters to yourmom, and I think that's an
(26:54):
amazing idea for a tool forpeople, because sometimes saying
things out loud feels toovulnerable.
So even though you are with yourloved one and you know that
they're passing away, but youjust feel like I can't bring
myself to say it or say thethings that like I'm feeling
really deep down.
And I think some people are justexpress themselves better in
(27:16):
writing verse in.
Speech.
I'm one of those people.
I'm much better at expressingmyself and writing.
And I think that's a great ideafor people to keep in their back
pocket.
You know, if there are thingsyou feel like you need to say
they want to say writing is agreat option for that.
And then it's out of theirhands, right?
Whether they respond to it ornot is totally up to them and
(27:38):
you know that you put it outthere.
So I thought that was a reallygreat nugget, but I want people
to be able to think about orkeep in mind for themselves if
that ever comes
Desiree (27:46):
up in their life.
And let people know how much youlove them.
Like, even if they're not sicktake the time to put your phone
down and look people in the eyeand be present with them.
I think that we understand howmuch our presence is a gift even
more so now in our distractedAge.
And I've also heard of peoplewho know that they are passing,
(28:08):
like I've heard from reading andother ALS support groups.
I'm still in a lot of thosegroups just because I like to
offer support and guidance.
Everybody's ALS journey is alittle bit different, but those
who have been there.
Have helped me the most in mydivorce in any journey that I've
been on.
And so it's my way of givingback to that community.
(28:29):
But I've also read that people,you know, with a terminal
illness may sit down and writeletters to, their grandkids of,
like, to be opened on the day oftheir graduation.
And I think that that's also abeautiful gift.
But it depends on, you know,people navigate it.
Those times of difficulty verydifferently with different
(28:50):
attitudes, differentperspectives, but that time that
you have together, I see it as agift.
And so soak up as much of thatlife together that you have.
That would be my, you know, ifthat's what you, if that's what
you feel called to do, somepeople just don't want to, they
don't want to feel.
And, and I will say thatfeelings can be completely
(29:15):
overwhelming, but the more thatwe suppress them, the more that
they grow.
And so even though you're afraidto feel and you feel like I'm
never going to stop crying,there will be a point in time.
where the feelings will movethrough you.
And if you feel like you needprofessional help, there's no
shame in getting that, whetherit be medication, therapy,
(29:39):
talking, you know, talking topeople who have been there.
There, I think it's the wholegrief educator model that David
started.
You can work with peers, you canwork with coaches, and you can
work with licensed therapistsand counselors.
And so I love that he, he'slike, I just want people to be
out there educating about whatgrief is, because it's a
universal human experience.
(30:00):
And I think that's so awesomebecause people don't want to
talk about it.
Like they didn't want to talk,they want to talk about the
weather and they want to talkabout football and like the fun
stuff of life.
Right.
Nobody wants to talk about thesad stuff, but I'm here to say.
The sad stuff doesn't have to bedepressing and sad.
It can be beautiful, and it canbe loving, and it can be
(30:22):
meaningful.
And we can say it was hard, butit was worth it.
Mandy (30:28):
And it can be so validating to talk about it and
to find other people who've beenthrough similar experiences that
dealt with it similar ways.
And we, underestimate howpowerful that can be.
Yeah, out of curiosity, justbecause you know, you've lost
both your parents and you'vegone through grief educator
training and done coaching.
So I'm sure you're working witha lot of people who've been
(30:48):
through grief.
Do you have any ideas or tipsfor people about those birthdays
and anniversaries and howdifferent ways that you've
approached those over
Desiree (30:58):
the years?
What I love to do is honor themon their birthday.
So do something to honor them.
So my mom's birthday was inAugust and I made her favorite
coconut cake.
And then I gave it to anybodywho would want to eat it.
And it was hilarious cause Iwent to Walmart to get, you
know, to get cake mix andusually just buy a white cake
mix.
And Dolly Parton has this lineof coconut cake mixes.
(31:21):
And I was like, oh, we're goingto make a Dolly Parton cake.
So I made the Dolly, you know,anyway, it was every year.
It's a little bit different.
And I'm like, my mom would lovethis.
The Dolly Parton cartoon is onthe front of the box.
And anyway, so that's what I didfor my mom's birthday.
My dad's birthday is coming upin November and I happen to be
(31:42):
going to a conference in Orlandoand they had a VIP option.
And my dad took us to Disney alot.
I went even, I went, even aslike a young adult to babysit
his kids at night so they couldgo to dinner, built in
babysitter.
And anyway, so I have a lot ofmemories of him at Disney and
(32:03):
they had this day where youcould spend a day at the park
with an imagineer.
And it happened to be on hisbirthday.
And I said, okay, Papa, I'mgoing to spring for it and do
this.
Because I know that you're goingto be with me.
And so it's my way of honoringhim on his birthday.
I will.
I will do something for, youknow for others that would in a
way that he would serve others,or I'll talk to my siblings
(32:25):
about memories.
It's, you know, it depends on, Ikind of feel like if you get
still and you ask them, like,what is something that, you
know, what is something thatwould mean something or what
would you like me to do?
The other thing that I am sosurprised about is they come
through in various ways.
So the, the cool part wasbecause we knew we were losing
(32:48):
my mom, like she was like, Iwant to go with this funeral
home and this is what I want myburial to be like, and whatever.
And the funeral home was like,we do these butterfly releases.
Would you like to do a butterflyrelease?
And I was like, I had neverheard of that.
So I asked my mom.
And she's like, yeah, let's dothat.
And so she died at the end ofNovember in Louisiana.
(33:08):
I mean, it was kind of warm, butit was kind of cool.
And people started seeingbutterflies within hours.
And they were like, you neversee butterflies this time of
year.
And I've just had incredibleencounters with butterflies
since she's left.
And so.
It's I mean, I'll see abutterfly and an usual spot or
it'll fly right in front of myface and land on a branch.
(33:29):
I'll take a picture and send itto my sister.
And so watch out for thosesigns, especially around the
time of year.
And if you're having a roughtime, like, if you just.
Not doing well, check in withthe date and just check and say,
does something happen aroundthis time of year where I
experienced a loss and I'm just,my body remembers the time of
(33:52):
year.
Those memories are like encodedin us and just give yourself
grace to say, you know, I'm, I'mstruggling today.
It's the anniversary, it's nearthe anniversary of the loss of
this person.
And okay, what can I do to honorthem?
And so for me, it's activitiesor food.
I mean, of course I'm Cajun.
So there's a lot of food is verycentral to my culture.
(34:15):
So it, you know, it's, it'sdifferent ways calling relatives
that are still living and askingto hear about stories.
Yeah, just finding whatever yourfamily traditions are that would
honor them, your family orcultural traditions.
I love
Mandy (34:32):
that and such a good point about how we do feel those
losses in our bodies.
It is the strangest thing tothink about that, like you
cannot be conscious.
Of what's approaching and yetyou're like, why am I so grumpy?
Like, why am I so exhausted thisweek?
I just can't focus, you know,whatever it is for you.
(34:52):
I'm not able to sleep all of asudden and I'm a great sleeper,
but this past week I'm just likestruggling and tossing and
turning and then you realizelike, oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's next week.
And I just I find that to befascinating that are you
literally on a cellular levelknow it's coming.
Whether you want to admit it ornot.
Desiree (35:12):
Yeah.
And so, you know, my, the lessonthat I take from that is.
It's going to come up, you mightas well feel your feelings and
let it, and let it move through.
Because it's, it's like tryingto put a lid on a volcano, it's
going to come out and I feelthat it's healthier to express
(35:32):
those emotions so that we don'tstore them in our body.
And then and then we're carryingthat around and then, you know,
something happens and, and thenother people experience the
explosion.
Mandy (35:44):
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
And so, I mean, I love talkingto you.
You have a great energy.
And even with everything thatyou've been through, I can tell
that you're just taking life oneday at a time and exploring this
new space that you're in.
And I think you're going to helpso many people just going into
grief education and coaching.
And I think you have the rightpersonality for it.
(36:06):
And I love that you're focusingon the joy that's in the
experience because it is alwaysthere whether people realize
it's going to be and recognizingthat it's okay to find joy and
all of that also is superimportant.
Where can people find you ifthey want to connect with you?
Desiree (36:22):
I have a website.
So it's Desiree Doucet.
com.
So D E S I R E E D O U C E T.
It's a Cajun last name.
My dad named me.
So that's why my name is French.
And yeah, he liked unusualnames.
And then I'm also on Instagram.
So Desiree dot Doucette and thenFacebook Desiree D Doucette and
(36:43):
there's a coaching page or youcan follow my personal page.
I do share some stuff publiclyjust little bits and stories,
inspirational stuff.
I feel like I've spent probablymy first 20 years of life
feeling like life just happenedto me.
I didn't understand it.
And people that were happy.
It just.
They puzzled me.
That's
Mandy (37:03):
fascinating because you seem so happy.
I just have this like vibrantenergy talking to you.
You look like someone who'sprobably always been a very
happy person.
Desiree (37:12):
That is not the case, Amanda.
I was miserable.
I told my sister, I was like,this person in college
aggravated me because they werehappy.
And I discerned that they werehappy because their life was
perfect.
It wasn't their perspective.
And the interesting thing iswhen we realized that it's our
perspective I did not uncover mysense of humor until I was
divorced.
(37:32):
And I think there's somecorrelation there to
experiencing pain and going toreally deep and dark places and
healing that at a, at that levelthat enables you, it's allowing
your, you're not numbinganymore.
You're feeling.
And so you're feeling reallydeeply and it hurts, but it also
(37:53):
opens up this beautiful world ofjoy and connection.
And it's that vulnerabilitypiece, that Brene Brown talks
about.
And so, you know, I just, Iwalked through the world so
differently and I absolutelylove Edwin McCain.
He had this song that came outthis album that came out towards
the end of, while I was incollege and not a lot of people
(38:15):
remember him.
He had a couple of hits, but oneof the songs he wrote, he said,
anywhere I'm going takeseverywhere I've been.
I've done a lot of living that Iwouldn't care to do again, but I
wouldn't change a mile, I swear,on the road that'll get me
there.
And That's how I feel about mylife.
I would not want to relive thepain that I've been through, but
(38:39):
I am excited for my future.
And I want people to know thatif you're walking through it
right now, that it's okay to notbe okay.
And it's okay to step back andheal, but look for those moments
of connection because you can bethe lighthouse in someone else's
storm.
And you can change, you don'thave to be Eeyore for your whole
(39:00):
life, you know, you can turninto Tigger.
Yeah.
Mandy (39:05):
I mean, look at you.
You've done it.
Living proof.
Desiree (39:09):
Yeah.
So thank you so much, Amanda.
This was amazing.
I really have loved connectingwith you and I can't wait to
share your business with Withpeople who are walking through
this journey and help them keepthose memories alive of, of your
loved ones, because theirspirits, I remember telling my
ex husband when his dad wasdying, I said, the way that they
(39:32):
have impacted you will live onin you.
Long after they're gone.
So don't ever forget that.
I hope you enjoyed our episodetoday.
Deseret story spans herlifetime, but her losses are
close to the holidays.
As this airs, we are in thethick of the holiday season.
One that can be especially toughfor those and acute grief.
(39:53):
Are those who struggle withanniversaries or other memories
around this time of year.
As I leave you.
I hope you will give yourselfgrace to do whatever feels right
this season.
As Deseret said she can up anddecide to go to Cancun for the
holidays.
If she wants.
And while you might not be ableto hop on a plane, you can
choose to do whatever fills yoursoul in the best way.
(40:14):
For today's journal prompt,write about the holidays.
It could be memories that arespecial to you or things you
miss.
The emotions they bring up orthe anger you feel towards this
time of year.
Let the writing lead you inwhatever direction it takes.
Thank you so much for listening,please make sure you subscribe.
Share this episode with anyonewho could benefit from it and as
(40:35):
always visit remember grams.
Anytime you need to send alittle love to someone who is
grieving.
Thank you and have a wonderfulday.
Hello, and welcome back to thegrief trails podcast.
I am your host, Amanda.
Kernaghan from remember grams.
A small business dedicated tohelping you support those in
your life.
Experiencing grief.
I hope you'll consider sendingsomeone a personalized card or a
grief support box.
Shipping within the us hasalways free and we treat each
order with special care payingattention to every detail.
(00:24):
Today on the podcast is Deseret.
Doucet a certified griefeducator and professional coach
who works with women as theynavigate midlife.
Does Ray experience sudden lossas a young person, when her dad
died unexpectedly.
And later in life, she lost hermom in a slow decline where she
became her caretaker.
Through these contrastingexperiences, Deseret knows
(00:47):
firsthand.
The grief is a human emotion.
And it can bring us tounexpected moments of
connection.
If we allow ourselves.
The safety and opening up toothers.
Opening up is exactly whatDeseret does here with us today.
Let's take a listen.
As she brings us back to theloss of her dad.
Desiree (01:04):
That was something that it was very surprising he passed
two days after Christmas.
We had just had.
A really great Christmastogether as a family.
And I was about to graduate fromcollege.
So the way that I was theyoungest of what he called the
first crop.
So the first, my parents weremarried for 22 years and I was
(01:25):
the youngest of their children.
And then he got remarried andthey had two children.
And so that was the second crop.
And so when he would introduceme, sometimes that would be me
and him.
And then my half.
brother or whatever.
And they'd be like, Oh, is thisyour daughter?
And he'd be like, yeah, she'sthe youngest from the first
crop.
But my dad and I had thisspecial bond, especially the
three musketeers, like me and myhalf brother and my dad, partly
(01:48):
because I was of babysitting agewhen he was born.
So it was very convenientbecause my dad did not change
diapers.
And my stepmom would go off, youknow, and do girl things on
Saturdays.
And and then my dad would getLeft with a kid and he'd be like
you need to come over and visit.
So we bonded a lot but my dadand I had like a conversation
(02:08):
that the evening of when he diedand my sister and I went to the
movies together and one of ourthings that we got to have when
we were in school was he neverwanted us to use the excuse that
we couldn't afford gas to comevisit him.
So he gave us a gas credit card.
And so she was like, let's go tothe gas station and stock up on
candy and shove it in our purseand go to the movies.
(02:29):
And so we had gone to the moviesthat day.
And while we're at the movies,he left me a voicemail or this
was back in the day of theanswering machines.
I was fancy and had a digitalone, but he left me a message.
And that was the last I calledhim afterward.
And we're going to have lunchthe next day.
I was going to drive, you know,lived about an hour from where
(02:50):
he lived.
I was in school and.
Go have lunch with him.
And the next thing I knew, mysister was tracking me down and
telling me that he had died of amassive heart attack.
And it was shocking.
I had a cousin pass away aboutthree weeks before that in a car
accident.
And that was also shocking, butI knew the tone of voice when my
(03:12):
sister called me that somethingI was like, this is, this is a
repeat of what I.
Spoke to her three weeks ago.
I just knew.
And so that was, it was really,it rocked my world because it
put us, you know, I just turned21.
I was about to graduate fromcollege.
I was choosing where I wanted tolive and work and it was a
pivotal time and ended updeciding to move out of
(03:34):
Louisiana.
I'm born and raised inLouisiana.
So I moved away.
Partly to run away from thememories, and start a new life.
And so I think that really didmake very different decisions
for me.
It's it spurred me in adifferent direction.
And so I've been living outsideof Atlanta for 24 years now.
(03:55):
Wow.
Mandy (03:56):
Yeah.
I was also in my 20s.
My mom also died of a heartattack.
It was very sudden.
And so that experience, I knowwhat you're talking about when
you're like, it was so shocking.
And I think at that age, we justare so oblivious to the things
that can happen.
And you just feel so secure andyour parents and, and if you
have no reason to question theirhealth or anything like that,
(04:17):
you just assume they're stillgoing to be there.
And it can absolutely just rockthe access that you're on.
yeAh.
At such a pivotal point in yourlife, right?
You know, you're just gettingready to launch into your
independence and adulthood.
So, so that is what made youdecide to move away instead of
staying.
I feel like for some people theyhave the opposite reaction where
they want to like stay closerbecause of that.
(04:40):
And some people want to movefurther away.
Desiree (04:42):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting because
looking back on it now, Iremember somebody that I knew a
friend from college was like, Ican't believe you finished
school.
And I was like, girl, whatchoice did I have?
Like, my dad was the financialrock of our family.
And I had to get out and startmaking money.
I didn't have a choice.
I didn't see myself as having achoice to grieve.
(05:04):
People didn't know what to sayto me.
And I remember walking around atcampus, you know, it's the
beginning of a semester and it'smy last semester and I had a
really cool student job.
I worked in the athleticdepartment doing their computer
support.
It was crazy fun and peoplewould be like, you're a girl and
you could take apart.
It was really cool, but I had areally cool boss.
(05:25):
And we were busy, you know,closing out a new state is a lot
of work, a lot of paperwork.
Because of the family dynamic.
You know, we were involved alot.
And so it was just, it was a lotto deal with in that last
semester, before I moved away.
And even afterwards.
But it was like, I would walkthrough the world and I was
(05:46):
like, people don't even knowthat my whole life, your
foundation is rocked.
And so it was a very differentexperience.
My mom passed in 2019.
We'll get to that in a littlebit.
Very different experience.
And I went to grief educatortraining, partly to help me
heal.
And I trained with a gentlemannamed David Kessler.
(06:08):
He's a grief expert.
He's an amazing human being.
He's a therapist.
And he said that death shapesthe grief, or the loss shapes
the grief.
Because grief is not just theloss of our loved ones.
It is a recurring theme.
It's a human experience.
We, I don't think we give creditto other forms of grief besides
just losing people.
(06:29):
But he says the, the loss shapesthe grief.
And I saw that so clear with theloss of both my parents.
Cause my dad was sudden and Isaid, wow, that's like exhausted
from being hit from a traumatic.
Experience like being hit by,you know, a large vehicle, like
being a pedestrian trying tocross the street and a large
vehicle hits you.
It is traumatic.
(06:49):
It takes you down and it's justlike, wow.
Whereas after my mom had aprolonged illness and so after
caregiving for her and watchingher slip away, that was like
being exhausted at the end of amarathon, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
I like that comparison.
Yeah.
So but anyway, in between, Ikind of had a break in my
(07:12):
losses, which was a little bitnice.
But I had, it's like, thanks.
Thanks for the break life.
I appreciate that.
But we surely made up for it inthe last couple of years.
I, I was married.
I got married and I want to sayit was 2013.
My then father in law gotdiagnosed with mesothelioma.
He was in the Navy, and it was aservice related illness.
(07:36):
He was on submarines in the 60s,and that is a very common, it's
lung cancer formed caused byasbestos.
I don't know if you know aboutthat, but it's terminal, and
there's really, they can treatit, but there's really not
anything they can do.
And it's a very specializedcancer.
So walking through that and Ijust jumped into like giving
(07:57):
mode of I've been through thisjourney and it's hard and let me
love them as much as I can.
And that was a hard journey.
And then, and I was already inmy marriage was already in
trouble.
And we were in counseling andgrief doesn't help that at all.
No.
And, and then shortly after hepassed, I got some information
(08:17):
that I was like, my marriage isover.
And that was hard.
And then I got talked out of it.
And then his mom got diagnosedwith cancer and he was like,
well, you can't leave.
And it was just, it was a reallyhard time.
And but I was like, something'swrong with my mom.
But my mom was one of thosepeople that was just like, I'm
fine.
I don't know what it is, butwhen her voice started changing
(08:39):
and she couldn't swallow and wetake her to a GI doctor, we take
her to, you know, and they werelike, you really need to get in
with a neurologist in the townshe lived in.
There was a shortage ofneurologists.
And so that took a lot.
And it.
My aunt ended, my mom's sisterended up going and sitting in
the office, sitting in thewaiting room, like, I am not
leaving until my sister gets anappointment with somebody.
(09:01):
And so she was, she had apreliminary diagnosis of ALS,
but they had to rule a couple.
ALS is a disease of like, theyhave to rule everything else out
before they can say, yeah, youhave it.
It's a disease that's not reallyunderstood very well.
And so she got diagnosed and andmy sister said, well, at least
we have a diagnosis now.
(09:22):
And I'm like, well, there'snothing we can do about this one
either.
My mom didn't really want anymassive interventions, you know,
kind of quality of life stuff.
anD that was really difficultbecause my sister and I both
live out of state.
So I live about.
9 to 10 hours by car from herand my sister lives about 12 to
14.
Mandy (09:41):
And so we're like, Hey, I mean that diagnosis is scary.
Like, let's just say thatbecause it's not like you know,
I think when people think aboutterminal illness, you often
think of cancer.
And ALS is not a cancer, but itis a degenerative disease that
causes really severe, terriblesymptoms that are.
Just devastating to watch so andyou knew she was going to need
(10:04):
help at that
Desiree (10:05):
point.
Oh, oh, yeah And we're like,okay, where do you want to move?
Atlanta Kansas City where whereshe's like, I'm not moving and
we're like, okay, so, We bothhad jobs that allowed us to work
remotely.
My job was remote.
Thank goodness.
And my bosses were superunderstanding and I felt like I
had just started to get back upfrom my divorce because that
(10:28):
really knocked me back a lotmore.
And then I lost 2 pets in themiddle of the year.
And you just, at some point youbecome so numb, that it doesn't
even, you don't even feel thingsanymore.
And so.
My mom, I had gone to yogateacher training, which that was
a blessing in between like theend of my divorce and my mom
getting diagnosed.
And I needed that.
(10:49):
So I spent a lot of time with mymom and my sister and I just
looked at each other and we'relike, no regrets.
We know what it's like to lose aparent.
No regrets.
And ALS is, we didn't knowanything about it.
I remember when my mom was sickand we were trying, where it was
before her neurologistappointment, there's a gentleman
who played, so I'm fromLouisiana, so everybody's Saints
fans.
And there's a player from theSaints.
(11:11):
And he is diagnosed with ALS,uh, Steve Gleason is his name.
And so he's got the GleasonFoundation.
And I remember my cousin postedsomething like an interview with
Steve Gleason.
And I was watching it and I waslike, this is what mom has.
And I knew it.
And it was so horrible for me toeven consider it.
(11:32):
I was like, no, she doesn't.
But something inside of me knewthat that's what she had.
And, so I started learning alittle bit about it.
You know, it's degenerative,it's a neurodegenerative, so it
impacts your whole body and shehad both forms, so she had
bulbar and limb which means thatthey lose the ability to swallow
and when you're Cajun, you kindof live for the food, it's so
(11:55):
conflicting, so that was really,it was hard, you know, like you
start to feel guilty abouteating around her and she can
smell it, but she can't haveany, and it just, it was, It was
a constant, the care.
I did not understand the care.
I had never been involved in.
It's just a lot.
And you don't even have time.
(12:17):
You're so physically exhausted.
You're emotionally exhausted.
And then we were both trying, wehave a brother that lives down
there and we had my mom's twosisters.
My mom was unmarried.
And so the kids really, we werepulling the night shift.
So from 7pm to 7am, and we werelucky enough to be able to
afford having caregivers duringthe day.
(12:38):
So 7am to 7pm, we had peoplethere, but she wasn't sleeping
through the night.
So our sleep was trash.
And then she decided to, at thelast minute to get a feeding
tube, which that was, it wasjust, one thing that I learned
is when you're dealing withsomeone who has a terminal
illness, if I could give anydirection is have empathy for
(13:02):
their journey.
And their choices, because youcan look at, and I learned this
in coach training schools, youknow, we don't know what's best
for somebody else, but it can bevery easy when someone has a
terminal illness to say, this iswhat you need to do.
And I was politicking for my momto get that feeding tube and she
didn't want it and she didn'twant it and she didn't want it.
(13:24):
And then at the last minute shedecided to get it.
And I was on a business trip.
I had a business trip plannedfor.
You know, some business meetingsacross the country.
And it was, it was scary.
And I was, I was a little bitangry and I was like, what if
she dies?
And I'm, you know, on my way toPortland, Oregon.
And how do I, you know, like,this is, it just was freaking me
out, but it also forces you tolet go to some degree.
(13:48):
anD one thing that I would liketo instill, if somebody's in the
middle of a caregiving journey,well, understanding that there's
anticipatory grief.
So there's grief before you evenhave the loss.
But one thing I remember havingthis conversation with my mom's
hospice nurse, we had the mostincredible care team for my mom.
And is that you can have momentsof joy in the middle of losing
(14:11):
someone.
And we had an amazing lastbirthday for my mom.
I kept saying, what do you wantto do for your birthday?
She's like, I don't want to doanything.
And she hated goodbyes.
Just even like leaving mynephews, you know, when she went
to visit, it was just hard forher.
And.
I didn't think that she wanted,you know, I don't think she
wanted to know what was going tohappen for her birthday because
it would feel like a giant dayof goodbyes and we planned.
(14:35):
She would go to bed like superearly and so we decorated the
whole house like we gotstreamers and put them in all
the doorways and we had likestuff hanging from everything
all over the ceiling.
We had silly little party hatsand everybody in silly little
glasses and everybody that cameover had to put it on and take
pictures with her so.
It was just an incredible dayand it was almost like a living
(14:58):
memorial so that she, I said,mom, if there is any gift in
your illness, it's so that youcan see how much you are loved
before you leave this earth.
And I wholeheartedly believethat she knew how much she had
been loved because she hadpoured so much love and care
into other people.
And so that gives mesatisfaction.
(15:19):
Beautiful memory.
Yeah.
And we had a lot of fun and likewhen she got the feeding tube,
I'm not going to lie.
Like I'm a squeamish.
I am not like the hospice nursewas like, you would be a great
nurse.
I'm like, what kind of crazinessare you thinking?
I would not be a good nurse.
I would pass out.
I was like, I do this because Ilove my mother.
It's called a peg tube andthat's the type of feeding tube
(15:42):
she had.
So I was like, I would, itscared me because I was like,
what if I get squeamish and Ican't do this?
What if I can't care for her?
And so I was like, let me justturn this into funny.
So I would just take the tubeand I talk into it like a
microphone and be like, goodmorning, Peggy.
How are you doing in there?
Did you have a good night ofsleep?
And it was, it brought somelevity to the situation.
(16:03):
And I was like, you know, we'regoing to make the best out of
this.
And we tie dyed her hot when shehad to get a hospital bed.
We tie dyed her sheets.
We got her white sheets and Itied item and, and I would send
pictures to the hospice nurseand he'd be like, y'all got it
going on, you know, and I tied,I'd heard this dress with a A
red heart in the center and whenthe funeral home came to pick
(16:26):
her up, they were like, what doyou want her to dress in?
And I was like, we're, we'resending her with the hippie
dress.
She's gonna, she's gonna go offwith that.
And it was just, it's a timewhere you're really tested
you're exhausted, but there'salso so much beauty.
And Brene Brown shares is youcan't selectively numb and you
(16:47):
want to numb the pain, but thosejoyful memories are priceless.
Did it
Mandy (16:53):
feel for you, because you had the experience of losing
your dad in such a differentway, did it feel like you sort
of got a do over with your mom,where you got to like, say
things or have these memorieswith her that you didn't get to
do with your dad, right, becauseit was so sudden, and you didn't
know it was coming?
Desiree (17:11):
One thing that I did, that's a great, you just jogged
a memory of something I'd loveto share.
In a way, yes.
And I remember leaving one day,it was probably about two months
before she died, and thinking, Idon't want to leave her but I
needed to, I mean, I have ahouse, you know, like somebody's
got to come back here and checkon the thing.
(17:33):
And I did have some workresponsibility.
I mean, I had things, I had alife, you know, I needed to come
home occasionally.
I could stay about two weeks,then I have to come home for, a
couple days, then I go back.
And I had the most flexibleschedule because I was single
and didn't have kids.
But I was like, how can I feelgood about this, knowing that my
time with her so limited.
So I would sit down every dayand write her a letter.
(17:57):
And I'd print it off.
It was just, you know, I type itout.
And it was about a memory thatwe had or something that I
admired about her or justsharing.
I, I don't, I don't evenremember all of them, but every
day I committed to doing that.
It only took me 10 or 15 minutesand I would put it in the mail
and I would mail it to her.
And I have like a bunch of oldChristmas envelopes.
So it was like wacky.
(18:17):
I was like, I'm just going touse what we have.
And she never acknowledged themto me.
She never said, I got your, Imean, she couldn't speak, but
she never communicated to methat she ever read them.
And so I had asked thecaregivers, I'm like.
Are my little red envelopes,like, are they getting there?
She's like, yeah, they are.
And cause I didn't know cause mymom, I think it was just
(18:40):
probably too painful.
And some of them she threw inthe trash.
My mom still, she could notspeak anymore, but you certainly
got her personality.
It came through there.
This whole nonverbalcommunication is a thing.
Like she could tell you with onelook in her eyes that she was
displeased and you knew exactlywhy.
(19:01):
And so, you know, she didn't,she didn't keep them all, but it
was my way of knowing that I hadbeen able to communicate.
It was my opportunity tocommunicate with her how much I
loved her, how much she meant tome, the things that I remember.
And I would love to turn thoseletters into a book one day.
Because being able, that wassuch a gift for me to do that.
(19:24):
And, you know, past me wouldhave been like, put expectations
on others.
Like you guys should do this.
If somebody hears this podcastepisode and they have the idea
and it gives them peace andenclosure.
And, you know, I'd love, I'dlove for people to be able to
read about that.
My nephews, I mean, even if it'sjust my nephews and my sister.
But one thing that I realized alot in her passing and, or in my
(19:46):
grief education is.
All of our relationships are sodifferent.
I had a very differentrelationship with my dad than my
brother did.
So he mourned his loss verydifferently.
My dad was really hard.
He didn't know how to relate toa son, the family dynamic on
that side of the family.
They're just mean to each other.
The fathers and sons can just bereally awful.
(20:08):
Whereas daughters are, it's atotally different relationship.
So my, I think my brother wascloser to my mom.
So that loss was harder on him.
And You know, my sister and Iwere talking about it and she
was grieving very differentlyand she's like, why are you not
crying?
And I'm like, oh, I've beencrying for a year and a half and
she just, you know, We all justhave different relationships.
We're going to grieve lossesdifferently Every and what i've
(20:31):
come to understand is like, youknow, we grew up in the same
family But my sister's six yearsolder than me.
So even yesterday she was like,well didn't papa teach you how
to do blah blah blah And i'mlike girl you had to a two
parent family until you went tocollege when I was 12 Our
parents got divorced.
Like, by the time I had a car,nobody would care.
It was like, here's the grocerylist, go shopping.
(20:52):
Like, you know, like, no.
I was like, he had two youngkids.
Like, he didn't have time forme.
He didn't teach me anythingabout car maintenance.
I learned it on YouTube.
You know, reading the manual andso she was like, wow, it's been
enough of those experiences forher to realize like my
relationship, her relationshipwith my brother and my
(21:13):
relationship with my brother,very different and the dynamic
is different.
Our parents are different.
And so.
One thing that has given me suchgrace in understanding grief
journeys is we're all going togrieve differently.
And the grieving is thisinternal process.
The mourning is what you see,the crying and the processing.
(21:33):
And also understanding how to besupportive to people in grief.
If someone loses someone closeto them, even if they're like an
acquaintance, I will go to thefuneral.
Because I know how much it meantto me to be there to witness
their grief and I could notexplain it, but I was like, I
always go to the funeral.
(21:54):
My sister and I have this rule.
We're like, we always go to thefuneral.
I never regret it.
And when I took David Kessler'sgrief educator class, he said,
the most healing thing that wecan do for other people in grief
is to witness their grief.
And if we can have anonjudgmental space where we
allow them to share openly.
And he said, you know, the onlytime it's okay for you to
(22:16):
interject with your story is, isif it's in service to them.
And he's like, nobody wants towin the struggle Olympics.
We don't, comparison is notgoing to help.
And I was like, Oh, that's sobeautiful.
And I love the way that hedistilled all of that because
it's helped me help otherpeople.
Like, I don't know what to say.
(22:37):
I'm like, you don't have to sayanything.
Right.
You just, just go be present.
Mandy (22:43):
And to do that also outside of services, like to a
week or two or a month later, ortwo months later, ask the person
to go on a walk and just bequiet and let them talk if they
want to talk and let them bequiet if they want to be quiet.
And, you know, Those kinds ofthings, making time without
expectation, making time forsilence and quiet and letting
(23:04):
them have that space but with asupportive person is I think the
greatest gift we can give
Desiree (23:09):
each other.
Yeah, because we're seeing theother person in their humanity.
And the other thing that I wouldoffer is One thing that people
are afraid of is bringing up theanniversary.
So their, their birthdates andtheir anniversary of the loss
and.
It was David Kessler told thisreally interesting story and in
(23:31):
our training, and he said, Iremember it was like, you know,
9 years after I lost my mom orit had been a period of years.
And he said, you know, it's been9 years today since I lost my
mom.
And he was talking to a coworkeror somebody in his circle.
And they said, wow, you know,it's been 9 years.
Like, you know, you.
You're still thinking aboutthat.
And he was like, let me guess.
You've never had someone closeto you.
(23:54):
You've never lost someone closeto you.
And they were like, yeah, yeah,you're right.
And they were like, how'd youknow?
And he was like, because if youhad, you would understand and.
Another thing that has, so I, somention it, don't be afraid to
mention it because they'rethinking about it.
99 percent chance they, they areaware.
And if they're not aware,something in their body is
(24:17):
remembering the time of year.
So my dad died two days afterChristmas.
My mom died two days afterThanksgiving.
I'm like, thanks! That wasfantastic! So it's not, you
know, the fourth quarter is notthe most fun for me, but it's
okay because I give myselfgrace.
And I'm like, I am going to makenew memories.
And I jokingly, after my momdied, my sister, you know, we
(24:40):
were like, we can go to dinner.
We can go out to, let's go getcheese dip and margarita.
It's like, we're free, right?
It's, but we got to therestaurant.
She's like, can we ask for atable in the back so we can sit
and cry like in a box?
This is sad, but yeah, we alsosaw the humor in it, but I
looked at her and I said, I justfeel so unmoored, like.
(25:00):
We don't have parents anymore.
And I was like, and I'm divorcedand I don't have children.
I'm in my 40s.
I'm probably not gonna havekids.
Maybe I'll adopt one day.
I don't know.
I mean at this point It's like Idon't even know what to expect
out of life, which is finebecause it's kind of like a
surprise, but I was like, I'munsupervised.
(25:21):
I said, there's nobody that cantell me what to do.
Right.
And so I was like, this is, it'sfrightening, but it's also
exhilarating.
And so I was like, if I wantedto go, you know, to Cancun for
Christmas or to who knows, youknow, like, maybe I want to go
to Switzerland and spendChristmas there.
Like I have the margin to do it.
(25:44):
And so that's what I'm steppinginto my new life.
And then I got back to work andCOVID hit and I knew my job was
in jeopardy.
I lost my job.
And I was like, what do I wantto be when I grow up?
Because even though I loved mycareer and I was good at what I
did I didn't want to do thatanymore.
And so that's when I jumped intogrief educator, being a coach
(26:05):
and helping people navigate.
I feel like my passion ishelping people navigate
difficult stuff and not losetheir sense of self and their
joy, their appetite for joy andstaying in that growth mindset
of What can I take from thismoving forward in my life?
And so that's what I've beenfocused on building this
(26:26):
business and healing.
And healing takes time,especially when you have
multiple losses, give yourselfgrace.
Mandy (26:34):
Wow.
I mean, it is weird the waythings work out.
You know, I'm sure when you were21, you didn't think you were
going to be a grief educator,but here you are.
And.
I also I wanted to go back tothis point you talked about how
you wrote the letters to yourmom, and I think that's an
(26:54):
amazing idea for a tool forpeople, because sometimes saying
things out loud feels toovulnerable.
So even though you are with yourloved one and you know that
they're passing away, but youjust feel like I can't bring
myself to say it or say thethings that like I'm feeling
really deep down.
And I think some people are justexpress themselves better in
(27:16):
writing verse in.
Speech.
I'm one of those people.
I'm much better at expressingmyself and writing.
And I think that's a great ideafor people to keep in their back
pocket.
You know, if there are thingsyou feel like you need to say
they want to say writing is agreat option for that.
And then it's out of theirhands, right?
Whether they respond to it ornot is totally up to them and
(27:38):
you know that you put it outthere.
So I thought that was a reallygreat nugget, but I want people
to be able to think about orkeep in mind for themselves if
that ever comes
Desiree (27:46):
up in their life.
And let people know how much youlove them.
Like, even if they're not sicktake the time to put your phone
down and look people in the eyeand be present with them.
I think that we understand howmuch our presence is a gift even
more so now in our distractedAge.
And I've also heard of peoplewho know that they are passing,
(28:08):
like I've heard from reading andother ALS support groups.
I'm still in a lot of thosegroups just because I like to
offer support and guidance.
Everybody's ALS journey is alittle bit different, but those
who have been there.
Have helped me the most in mydivorce in any journey that I've
been on.
And so it's my way of givingback to that community.
(28:29):
But I've also read that people,you know, with a terminal
illness may sit down and writeletters to, their grandkids of,
like, to be opened on the day oftheir graduation.
And I think that that's also abeautiful gift.
But it depends on, you know,people navigate it.
Those times of difficulty verydifferently with different
(28:50):
attitudes, differentperspectives, but that time that
you have together, I see it as agift.
And so soak up as much of thatlife together that you have.
That would be my, you know, ifthat's what you, if that's what
you feel called to do, somepeople just don't want to, they
don't want to feel.
And, and I will say thatfeelings can be completely
(29:15):
overwhelming, but the more thatwe suppress them, the more that
they grow.
And so even though you're afraidto feel and you feel like I'm
never going to stop crying,there will be a point in time.
where the feelings will movethrough you.
And if you feel like you needprofessional help, there's no
shame in getting that, whetherit be medication, therapy,
(29:39):
talking, you know, talking topeople who have been there.
There, I think it's the wholegrief educator model that David
started.
You can work with peers, you canwork with coaches, and you can
work with licensed therapistsand counselors.
And so I love that he, he'slike, I just want people to be
out there educating about whatgrief is, because it's a
universal human experience.
(30:00):
And I think that's so awesomebecause people don't want to
talk about it.
Like they didn't want to talk,they want to talk about the
weather and they want to talkabout football and like the fun
stuff of life.
Right.
Nobody wants to talk about thesad stuff, but I'm here to say.
The sad stuff doesn't have to bedepressing and sad.
It can be beautiful, and it canbe loving, and it can be
(30:22):
meaningful.
And we can say it was hard, butit was worth it.
Mandy (30:28):
And it can be so validating to talk about it and
to find other people who've beenthrough similar experiences that
dealt with it similar ways.
And we, underestimate howpowerful that can be.
Yeah, out of curiosity, justbecause you know, you've lost
both your parents and you'vegone through grief educator
training and done coaching.
So I'm sure you're working witha lot of people who've been
(30:48):
through grief.
Do you have any ideas or tipsfor people about those birthdays
and anniversaries and howdifferent ways that you've
approached those over
Desiree (30:58):
the years?
What I love to do is honor themon their birthday.
So do something to honor them.
So my mom's birthday was inAugust and I made her favorite
coconut cake.
And then I gave it to anybodywho would want to eat it.
And it was hilarious cause Iwent to Walmart to get, you
know, to get cake mix andusually just buy a white cake
mix.
And Dolly Parton has this lineof coconut cake mixes.
(31:21):
And I was like, oh, we're goingto make a Dolly Parton cake.
So I made the Dolly, you know,anyway, it was every year.
It's a little bit different.
And I'm like, my mom would lovethis.
The Dolly Parton cartoon is onthe front of the box.
And anyway, so that's what I didfor my mom's birthday.
My dad's birthday is coming upin November and I happen to be
(31:42):
going to a conference in Orlandoand they had a VIP option.
And my dad took us to Disney alot.
I went even, I went, even aslike a young adult to babysit
his kids at night so they couldgo to dinner, built in
babysitter.
And anyway, so I have a lot ofmemories of him at Disney and
(32:03):
they had this day where youcould spend a day at the park
with an imagineer.
And it happened to be on hisbirthday.
And I said, okay, Papa, I'mgoing to spring for it and do
this.
Because I know that you're goingto be with me.
And so it's my way of honoringhim on his birthday.
I will.
I will do something for, youknow for others that would in a
way that he would serve others,or I'll talk to my siblings
(32:25):
about memories.
It's, you know, it depends on, Ikind of feel like if you get
still and you ask them, like,what is something that, you
know, what is something thatwould mean something or what
would you like me to do?
The other thing that I am sosurprised about is they come
through in various ways.
So the, the cool part wasbecause we knew we were losing
(32:48):
my mom, like she was like, Iwant to go with this funeral
home and this is what I want myburial to be like, and whatever.
And the funeral home was like,we do these butterfly releases.
Would you like to do a butterflyrelease?
And I was like, I had neverheard of that.
So I asked my mom.
And she's like, yeah, let's dothat.
And so she died at the end ofNovember in Louisiana.
(33:08):
I mean, it was kind of warm, butit was kind of cool.
And people started seeingbutterflies within hours.
And they were like, you neversee butterflies this time of
year.
And I've just had incredibleencounters with butterflies
since she's left.
And so.
It's I mean, I'll see abutterfly and an usual spot or
it'll fly right in front of myface and land on a branch.
(33:29):
I'll take a picture and send itto my sister.
And so watch out for thosesigns, especially around the
time of year.
And if you're having a roughtime, like, if you just.
Not doing well, check in withthe date and just check and say,
does something happen aroundthis time of year where I
experienced a loss and I'm just,my body remembers the time of
(33:52):
year.
Those memories are like encodedin us and just give yourself
grace to say, you know, I'm, I'mstruggling today.
It's the anniversary, it's nearthe anniversary of the loss of
this person.
And okay, what can I do to honorthem?
And so for me, it's activitiesor food.
I mean, of course I'm Cajun.
So there's a lot of food is verycentral to my culture.
(34:15):
So it, you know, it's, it'sdifferent ways calling relatives
that are still living and askingto hear about stories.
Yeah, just finding whatever yourfamily traditions are that would
honor them, your family orcultural traditions.
I love
Mandy (34:32):
that and such a good point about how we do feel those
losses in our bodies.
It is the strangest thing tothink about that, like you
cannot be conscious.
Of what's approaching and yetyou're like, why am I so grumpy?
Like, why am I so exhausted thisweek?
I just can't focus, you know,whatever it is for you.
(34:52):
I'm not able to sleep all of asudden and I'm a great sleeper,
but this past week I'm just likestruggling and tossing and
turning and then you realizelike, oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's next week.
And I just I find that to befascinating that are you
literally on a cellular levelknow it's coming.
Whether you want to admit it ornot.
Desiree (35:12):
Yeah.
And so, you know, my, the lessonthat I take from that is.
It's going to come up, you mightas well feel your feelings and
let it, and let it move through.
Because it's, it's like tryingto put a lid on a volcano, it's
going to come out and I feelthat it's healthier to express
(35:32):
those emotions so that we don'tstore them in our body.
And then and then we're carryingthat around and then, you know,
something happens and, and thenother people experience the
explosion.
Mandy (35:44):
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
And so, I mean, I love talkingto you.
You have a great energy.
And even with everything thatyou've been through, I can tell
that you're just taking life oneday at a time and exploring this
new space that you're in.
And I think you're going to helpso many people just going into
grief education and coaching.
And I think you have the rightpersonality for it.
(36:06):
And I love that you're focusingon the joy that's in the
experience because it is alwaysthere whether people realize
it's going to be and recognizingthat it's okay to find joy and
all of that also is superimportant.
Where can people find you ifthey want to connect with you?
Desiree (36:22):
I have a website.
So it's Desiree Doucet.
com.
So D E S I R E E D O U C E T.
It's a Cajun last name.
My dad named me.
So that's why my name is French.
And yeah, he liked unusualnames.
And then I'm also on Instagram.
So Desiree dot Doucette and thenFacebook Desiree D Doucette and
(36:43):
there's a coaching page or youcan follow my personal page.
I do share some stuff publiclyjust little bits and stories,
inspirational stuff.
I feel like I've spent probablymy first 20 years of life
feeling like life just happenedto me.
I didn't understand it.
And people that were happy.
It just.
They puzzled me.
That's
Mandy (37:03):
fascinating because you seem so happy.
I just have this like vibrantenergy talking to you.
You look like someone who'sprobably always been a very
happy person.
Desiree (37:12):
That is not the case, Amanda.
I was miserable.
I told my sister, I was like,this person in college
aggravated me because they werehappy.
And I discerned that they werehappy because their life was
perfect.
It wasn't their perspective.
And the interesting thing iswhen we realized that it's our
perspective I did not uncover mysense of humor until I was
divorced.
(37:32):
And I think there's somecorrelation there to
experiencing pain and going toreally deep and dark places and
healing that at a, at that levelthat enables you, it's allowing
your, you're not numbinganymore.
You're feeling.
And so you're feeling reallydeeply and it hurts, but it also
(37:53):
opens up this beautiful world ofjoy and connection.
And it's that vulnerabilitypiece, that Brene Brown talks
about.
And so, you know, I just, Iwalked through the world so
differently and I absolutelylove Edwin McCain.
He had this song that came outthis album that came out towards
the end of, while I was incollege and not a lot of people
(38:15):
remember him.
He had a couple of hits, but oneof the songs he wrote, he said,
anywhere I'm going takeseverywhere I've been.
I've done a lot of living that Iwouldn't care to do again, but I
wouldn't change a mile, I swear,on the road that'll get me
there.
And That's how I feel about mylife.
I would not want to relive thepain that I've been through, but
(38:39):
I am excited for my future.
And I want people to know thatif you're walking through it
right now, that it's okay to notbe okay.
And it's okay to step back andheal, but look for those moments
of connection because you can bethe lighthouse in someone else's
storm.
And you can change, you don'thave to be Eeyore for your whole
(39:00):
life, you know, you can turninto Tigger.
Yeah.
Mandy (39:05):
I mean, look at you.
You've done it.
Living proof.
Desiree (39:09):
Yeah.
So thank you so much, Amanda.
This was amazing.
I really have loved connectingwith you and I can't wait to
share your business with Withpeople who are walking through
this journey and help them keepthose memories alive of, of your
loved ones, because theirspirits, I remember telling my
ex husband when his dad wasdying, I said, the way that they
(39:32):
have impacted you will live onin you.
Long after they're gone.
So don't ever forget that.
I hope you enjoyed our episodetoday.
Deseret story spans herlifetime, but her losses are
close to the holidays.
As this airs, we are in thethick of the holiday season.
One that can be especially toughfor those and acute grief.
(39:53):
Are those who struggle withanniversaries or other memories
around this time of year.
As I leave you.
I hope you will give yourselfgrace to do whatever feels right
this season.
As Deseret said she can up anddecide to go to Cancun for the
holidays.
If she wants.
And while you might not be ableto hop on a plane, you can
choose to do whatever fills yoursoul in the best way.
(40:14):
For today's journal prompt,write about the holidays.
It could be memories that arespecial to you or things you
miss.
The emotions they bring up orthe anger you feel towards this
time of year.
Let the writing lead you inwhatever direction it takes.
Thank you so much for listening,please make sure you subscribe.
Share this episode with anyonewho could benefit from it and as
(40:35):
always visit remember grams.
Anytime you need to send alittle love to someone who is
grieving.
Thank you and have a wonderfulday.
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