March 22, 2023 • 19 mins
On today’s episode we will meet labor attorney, member of Teamster’s Local 810 in New York City and author, Mark Torres.
Mark’s latest book, Long Island Migrant Labor Camps: Dust for Blood, chronicles the plight of thousands of poverty stricken migrant workers lured to the agricultural fields of New York State for decades with the promise of good wages and decent housing. Once there, they were preyed upon by corrupt camp operators who often cheated them out of pay and housed them in deadly slum like conditions.
Dust for Blood, shines a harsh light onto what atrocities greed, a failure of government oversight, and the blatant disrespect for the working class can produce.
Marks in-depth investigation into the sordid history of these camps begins in the 1940’s during the massive labor shortage created in America by the 2nd world war.
It then follows the arc of human tragedy and suffering for those who worked in these dour camps, providing the food for our nation. The book focuses in on the peak years of the 50’s and 60’s and then tracks their steady decline in the decades that followed.
Packed with personal accounts of the hardships faced by the un-represented, his book serves as a cautionary tale for those who feel the need for organized labor unions have passed.
Dust for Blood is published by The History Press and is available in paperback now for purchase.
Show Notes
Mark Torres Website
http://www.marktorresauthor.com/about-the-author.html
Union Home Plus helps union members save money when they buy, sell, or finance their home.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe Cadwell (00:51):
Mark Torres, welcome to the show.
Mark Torres (01:31):
Thank you for having me, Joe. Glad to be here.
Joe Cadwell (01:33):
Well, thank you so much, Mark, for taking your time
to be on the show today to talkto our listeners about your
upcoming book. And I'm hopingbefore we get too deep into your
book Mark give us a quickbackstory on who you are. Sure,
Mark Torres (01:47):
I'm a labor attorney from New York, I'm
general counsel to a teamsterslocal a 10. In the Greater New
York City area represent 1000sof unionized workers. I've been
part of the labor movement foralmost 30 years myself, I have a
law degree from Fordham abachelor's degree from NYU. And
I'm also an author and I try topark as much of my work is aimed
to teach you particularly laborhistory, human rights history,
(02:09):
and approximate them. So mylatest work,
Joe Cadwell (02:12):
and I understand you, you've written three books
to date. And your fourth one,which we're going to be talking
about later in the show iscoming out here real soon.
What's the name of that book?
Mark Torres (02:22):
Sure. That is called Long Island migrant labor
camps, dust for blood. It is myfirst foray into nonfiction
historical. My other three booksmy I've written two fictional
crime novels, and, and thechildren's labor related
children's book called good guyJake, which is vacated teaches
our youth what unions do holidaythemed book was published my
(02:42):
humble price.
Joe Cadwell (02:44):
And how did you decide to to become an author?
What was your inspiration forthat?
Mark Torres (02:49):
You know, I was, you know, I love what I do. I
see myself as one of thosedinosaurs. So keep keep plugging
away for the labor movement aslong as I could, God willing.
But I also wanted to do more Ihad I've used the teaching of
wanting to reach out, I providedour union shops to a training,
and I enjoyed that I enjoyedconveying information in a
challenging but interesting way.
And that naturally branched offinto writing. I just wanted to
(03:10):
write and just kind of creating,you know, my work has always
aimed and enlightening andentertaining the readers and
even from fictional work, youknow, teaching past elements of
New York history eventuallymorphed into becoming, you know,
a nonfiction historical author,which I'm quite very, very proud
of.
Joe Cadwell (03:28):
And I know your book takes place in Long Island,
but do you live in Long Island?
Mark Torres (03:33):
I do. I live in Nassau County. The book itself
is centered in Suffolk County,it's the latter, probably two
thirds of long Allen, primarilyknown for its high agricultural
output potatoes and other crops.
And the book centers begins fromthe 1940s. During the World War
Two, labor shortage in generallyruns till around 2000, when a
lot of the camps from the heydayperiod died down from that the
(03:55):
peak period of the 1950s 1960.
Joe Cadwell (04:01):
And I know a lot of my listeners are here in the
northwest and maybe not have hadvisited New York. There are five
boroughs around the center ofNew York. And so when people
talk about crops growing, youdon't usually think of that in
New York. So this howgeographically How far is it
from say that the center wherethe Empire State Building would
(04:22):
be?
Mark Torres (04:22):
Sure, well, probably with between 80 and 90
miles east from New York Cityarea that runs along those two
forces, the North Fork and theSouth Fork, the South Fork is
more famous with the Hamptonsand Montauk. We've got friends a
little bit further, and on thenorth side and the North Fork
runs to orient point which isabout 80 miles so less than 100
miles on both forks.
(04:43):
And these are labor camps thatwere built. post World War Two,
and immigrant workers would cometo work seasonally to harvest
crops during World War Two Therewas a serious labor shortage,
people going off to war, theyhad trouble filling it, filling
(05:05):
that that void of workers, theytried everything from German POW
to to Boy Scouts and any localhelp, they can. But the shortage
was never really filled. So thegovernment initially sponsored
with local farmers, severalcontracts with the highlands of
Jamaica and Barbados. And theywere able to bring in these
workers from Jamaica andBarbados, to work at Easter four
(05:27):
camps in 1943. Shortly after thewar, those those contracts with
government sponsored contractsdied out, but the work was still
needed. And the farmers wouldthen network with local and crew
leaders and contractors, if youwill, to bring help, and they
would rely upon Mexican workers,workers from Puerto Rico. And
(05:48):
eventually, which turn primarilyto black workers from the US
south, primarily filled thatthat large need for manpower.
Joe Cadwell (05:56):
So they were filling a need, but somewhere
along the way, the livingconditions in these camps kind
of hit a low point, didn't they?
Mark Torres (06:05):
The early camps in the 40s, were were probably best
described as bare. Again, theywere government sponsors, so
kind of with all eyes on onthose camps. But over the years,
they vastly deteriorated. Andreally, you can tell by the
production in 1940, in 1943, thefour camps I mentioned, by 1951,
(06:25):
there were 28 camps. And then1958, that number ballooned to
134 labor camps. And the wordlabor camps are used
interchangeably. It's any formof housing, which could have
been old trailers abandonedhomes to modern or maybe not, at
the time, modern barracks, andcabin style units.
Joe Cadwell (06:45):
And these camps that you have written about why?
Well, let's back up just a bit.
Why did you decide to write thisstory about these camps?
Mark Torres (07:08):
First and foremost, it was shocking, the story
that's never been told, youknow, we're talking about 8090
miles from from New York City.
Heavy, high agricultural output,again, primarily on potatoes.
And the story, you know, theseareas are steeped in history,
they have a very deep historyand a lot of information going
back to the early settlers.
(07:29):
Yeah, here we are in the earlypart, mid mid 20th century, and
there was nothing written on it.
So my first goal was to capturethis history before it was lost
forever. And I'm proud while I'mproud to say I've capital A
great deal of it, I do know thata lot of it is lost forever,
right? I reached out to theSuffolk County Department of
Health, which is the governmentregulating body over these
camps. And I was I received over1000 documents from the
(07:52):
information request. And a lotof those documents were probably
from the 1980s. forward. So alot of the information prior to
that was lost. And that's sad,because I was able to do my
research, review over 300newspaper articles, read
documentaries, interviews withthose who may lose some still
surviving at the time, which arevery few. And I do not as
(08:13):
demonstrated a lot moreinformation that was last
forever. So while I'm proud tohave captured this history, it
is regrettable that that a lotof it was lost
forever,unfortunately.
Joe Cadwell (08:27):
And why do you feel no one's ever taken this project
on before?
Mark Torres (08:31):
Sure. Well, I believe largely it is an
agricultural area, I do believethat the constituents, so the
farmers, the industry, it's notthe positive type of history,
they would want to have shared.
So I'm sure you know, those inpower would have preferred not
to be discussed. But the thedata that I found, certainly and
certainly supports that it wasnot it was certainly a shameful
legacy for an area that is nowprosperous for its vineyards
(08:55):
and, and mansions and estates.
But it does have this darkhistory and, and I you know, the
way I see it is if any part ofhistory is lost in real estate,
it's a loss to humanity. Andthat's that's a shame. So, as I
grew into telling the story, myobligation grew to tell it more
and I'm glad to have uncoveredwhat I was able to do.
Joe Cadwell (09:16):
And in your research, what did you find?
Well,
Mark Torres (09:19):
Those camps at best was certainly probably can best
be described as poor tohorrendous slum like, you know,
the conditions deteriorated overtime. These facilities were
horrendous, they, you know,terribly smelling, dirty, no
(10:24):
water, really isolated areas,not insulated on no heat. And,
you know, to supplement for thatheat, a lot of the people who
live there would rely upon spaceheaters and, and kerosene
stoves. Unfortunately, therewere fires and horrific deaths
from that 11 day span for 1959.
Eight people died, includingyoung babies and adults. And
(10:45):
that, you know, that's anotherlarge part of the story that I
strive to tell is to kind ofcapture names, those who
perished in this migratory laborsystem, and there were quite a
few. And I can think of a 22year old mother named Jill see a
trend will be located there, shehad three children, three very
young children all under the ageof three at the time. It's a
cold January, she goes to likethe kerosene stove, the match,
(11:08):
the wick of the match falls ontothe rug, which is already
saturated with kerosene, theplace goes up, she, you know,
she tries to stand up thekerosene here, gets kerosene on
herself and effectively became aHuman Torch. She runs out of the
apartment or the home trying toextinguish the flames in the in
the mud outside, within secondsthe placement of the baby's
(11:30):
parents that she had died a weeklater. And you know, those are
the kinds of stories that thatreally hit home with me because
I wanted to share you know, butfor a few newspaper articles,
you know, that their herexistence was lost forever. And
I and I felt empowered to wantto capture that and share it the
book.
Joe Cadwell (11:48):
And this was in 1959, if I heard you correctly,
was 1959.
Mark Torres (11:51):
There were other camps that was in the cutshaw
and cutchogue, New York, whichis a beautiful area. It's known
for its vineyards and bucoliccountryside, one of the largest
labor camps existed there. Ithad the capacity to hold up 300
mega workers at a time. It wasthe first and probably only only
camp in New York state that hadits own school. Helen price
(12:13):
renowned the person in Southoldarea was was teaching the
children to the best you can theconditions were wretched,
generally wretched. And over theyears, and it will in 1961,
there was a fire for workers,they snuck in one of these
kerosene stoves for heat,because they struggled to afford
the 75 cents for the meals thatit cost at the camp and fire
(12:36):
went up. All four of them died,one died, one died shortly later
in the hospital, and you know,$25,000 in excess damage to the
facility. You know, in manyways, it's kind of a miracle
more people didn't perish inthat fire. And there were other
fires 1968 in Bridgehampton andJacobs labor camp, which is
really a rundown house at thatpoint. Three people perish
(12:57):
there. And you know, thesestories are just continuously
the wretched conditions. And alot of it, sadly, is due to the
economic exploitation becausethe crew leaders who would
typically black men or womanfrom the south themselves would
recruit these workers to come upto New York to stay for the
season. And they would abusethem both physically and
mentally. They would you know,if they, if they sensed that the
(13:21):
workers were susceptible toapproach alcoholism, they would
supply them with with wine,cheap wine to keep them
satisfied and quality, any kindof any animosity for not getting
paid. There was cheat cheatingof pay, one woman had went to
Riverhead court to complain thatshe was getting Social Security
taken out of her paycheck, butshe never saw security card. You
(13:41):
know, that's the kind of rampantabuse that was going on. And the
from the farmers perspective,they only dealt with the crew
leaders. So they kind ofoutsourced their liability
responsibility to the workers.
And we just deal with the crewleader and the crew later with,
you know, cut and turn and cheatand do everything he or she can
to abuse and exploit theseworkers. They're really a
terrible economic and physicaland mental toll on these
(14:03):
workers.
Joe Cadwell (14:06):
Yeah, sure. Sounds like it and again, post World
War Two through the 50s and 60sthat romanticized vision of
America that that everyone has,it sounds like there was quite a
disparity between that visionand what these people were truly
experiencing in these laborcamps. And they were susceptible
to the conditions that they werethey were, you know, put upon
(14:31):
them. And did they have anyrecourse? Was there any way that
they could, could bring theseliving conditions to the
authorities or the it doesn'tsound like there was any type of
unionism at all
Mark Torres (14:42):
or that that was the first problem which still
exists today. Under the NationalLabor Relations Act, foreign
workers are excluded from laborlaw protections. So on the
federal level, they have norecourse state level. It wasn't
until this year. In fact, I'msorry 2020 2020 when we got
finally enacted a measuresimilar to California Which did
in the 1970s, to offer someprotections and rights and
(15:03):
benefits, but ultimately theidea of joining union was not
existed. I, you know, the he waslittle help, there was no
appetite for the constituents ofthe county, for the public
government to act, even thepublic, it was largely a
different, whether willful or,or just, you know, just didn't
know what was going on, youknow, these camps are all almost
all the time situated in, in thebackwoods, rural places miles
(15:27):
from nears town, and that hadits own problems and other
workers were left isolated. Youknow, the recourse would be if
there were complaints, you know,someone would just call the
local police and more often thannot, it's to maybe bring up a
fight or violence or, orsomething there, but it was
never any kind of place to live.
There were a few examples ofbecause part of my book, the
latter part certainly coverswhat I call better angels. There
(15:49):
were some people and groups whoreally strive to fight against a
system that think of authorBrian or a pastor from
Greenpoint for more than 10years. He took it upon himself
to go to Congress to testify in1969. against the deplorable
conditions of the camp. Hereceived death threats for that.
Imagine a pillar of thecommunity is going to get
(16:10):
shunned. But just trying to helpthese people, I think of Mary
Kay stone, a woman, a very, veryApple woman, woman from the
Boston area, who left her reallyaffluent lifestyle, and we
located in Riverhead, to helpthese people. She did offer
training and courses to try toteach the workers, different
trades carpentry construction,they can escape the migrant
(16:32):
stream and find more steadywork. You know, so you know,
there were some people in groupswho really strive to help. In
fact, the marriage a stonescase, you filed several
different cases I say there werecourt cases they were filed.
Even though it was governed bythe Department of Labor, there
were local cases that wereheard, and most of it was
cheating out of pay taxes, othertypes of physical abuse, but any
(16:54):
kind of justice was really fewand far between most of the
times, it was a horrendoussystem from top to bottom.
Joe Cadwell (17:03):
And there was no oversight the government was
basically absolved of anyresponsibility. The labor unions
were ineffectual and unable toget in there. The media it seems
like when I tried to do someresearch mark, again, you are a
pioneer and putting out yourbook and, and shining some light
on the these conditions. I didstumble across a video by Edward
(17:25):
R. Murrow and CBS News calledharvest of shame. But that was
more of a sort of a broaderspectrum, looking at the
conditions across the US inregards to the agricultural
workers showing and that and
Mark Torres (17:37):
that video by I mean, that's just an excellent
video that captures on anational level from generally
from Florida, up through Maine,and it does touch on California,
is that with three mikingstudents at the time that the
West Coast mostly Californiaarea, you think of the Midwest,
which was covered a lot of a lotof the growth through Texas and
then you think of the east coastfrom Florida to Maine. But I was
(18:01):
able to dig deeper, I did findthat other read documentaries
called what harvest for theReaper, this was produced in
1969. And and that really shedlight specifically on the
control camp, it was the firstand only true documentary and
not only that, it shed light onthe conditions, but it really
did a great job of explainingthe economic exploitation. And
I'll give you certain examplesof the way the you know the way
(18:23):
it worked. So when the Kool Aidit goes say he contracts with
the Long Island farmers hedrives down in his bus or
whatever vehicle to say Arkansashe would recoup workers and
their their veteran waiting timein Arkansas was say $1 is 1969
in New York with generally $1.35today what's all the work is
look like get to 35 or moregreat place to work. And of
(18:44):
course, you know, there justcan't be poverty in poverty
stricken south, they would gofor the ride the minute they
step on the bus, they're alreadyindebted to that crew leader for
both the right there and theright back Of course, right
because it was seasonal. So nowthey're and and from that point
on throughout the whole timethey're chasing this perpetual
debt. You know, they're thecosts that are open or hidden,
(19:06):
right housing costs, food,transportation, blanket bs you
try. There's all these littlethings that are added in there.
There's no written contract.
It's basically at the whim ofthe the crew leader. If the cult
leader really had an interview,he would just say you're not
working today, and you wouldstay at the camp. And now you're
still incurring the debt, butyou're but you have no income.
The wardens who didn't work, youknow, farmers would come pick
(19:27):
them up, they'd happen to pickup chalk or what sometimes they
get a ride. They work on thefarm on the farms, picking
tomatoes and all the otherthings they do. And then they
get back and the crew leader ofcourse would get a cut out of
their pay. He would also get acut from the farmers for for
each day each worker that hesupplied. We don't work. So Joe
Kulina was making all differentways. And again, and I'll give
(19:50):
you an example though a hugemarkup on items. It was a
popular one a cheap CaliforniaWine called Twister at the time
at a local liquor store wouldsell for 61 cents at the camp,
it will be sold for over $1. Sonow you think, alright, just go
to the golden liquor store ifyou if you're so inclined and
get it miles away. And not onlyis it difficult to get it, if
(20:10):
you did do it and the crewleader found out, there will be
repercussions, it would bepunitive, he would frown upon
that. Another big problem was,there was no pay during work
stoppages. So, if a machinebroke down for four hours out of
the eight, then I paid for theeight hours, they just paid for
the four. So in essence, theirtheir daily output is cut in
half. But the the expensivestolen car, and this kept kept
(20:31):
perpetuating a vicious cycle ofdebt that is going to really
take a toll on anybody, right?
If you think about it, and withlittle recourse, there was
little, you know, you're, youknow, 1000 miles away, you're
not just gonna go home quickly.
Joe Cadwell (20:46):
Indentured servants, slaves to the
company's store, it almost seemslike a form of modern day
slavery in these camps wereallowed to operate again from
the late 40s.
Mark Torres (20:57):
Until when then, well, well, strangely enough,
there are still some camps. Now,it's a lot different. Now,
obviously, a large part is thethere's more affordable Low
Income Housing available, thereis more oversight. And really, I
kind of kind of wanted tocapture this story from its peak
period from its inception to thepeak period. So I chose 2000, at
(21:21):
the end of, you know, the end ofthe decade and wanted to leave
it at that. But, you know, theconditions aren't as as bad as
they were. But as we all know,they still are. I mean, there's
a lot of venues that works veryintensive. And, and, you know, I
haven't done a deep dive intomodern post 2000. But we, you
know, just from from earlyreports, you can just tell that
it's not as ideal as you wouldlike, especially farm workers
(21:44):
across the country, particularlywith COVID. They're getting
decimated, there's littleprotections, the prior
administration really wasn'tinclined to help. We're hopeful
that that some relief can come.
But But generally, from really,throughout this, throughout this
country, you know, thefarmworkers have had the raw end
of the deal. They've been on thebottom the last to get, and they
continuously suffer, yet theyprovide food for a nation really
(22:06):
is a sad spell with it. Youknow, I've never represented I
you know, as a teamster, Irepresent truckers warehouse,
meaning skill maintenance, Ihaven't had haven't had, we
don't have farm workers. But Itell you, I see them as as our
brothers and sisters, like anyother union member, and I really
sympathize with them.
Joe Cadwell (22:28):
That's a fantastic job that you do. And I'd like to
learn a little bit more aboutthat. Mark, myself being with
the carpenters union, you beingwith the the Teamsters,
organized labor, as you're awareof is constantly under attack on
the government level, the greedfrom giant corporations that are
trying to reach into the workingman and women's pocket to the
(22:50):
further path around what whatlessons have you learned? And
what parallels Can you drawbetween the situation that you
you wrote about and where we'reat today,
Mark Torres (23:00):
certainly, the themes are always recurring,
where industry in this case,industry became more valuable in
human life. And you see that nowwhere, you know, hard working
men and women are trying toorganize a union and companies
come in and, and, you know,they'll spend millions of
dollars to keep unions out.
Whether it's by you know, baitand switch will offer a slight
raise to make them happy. Andthen you know, then they can
(23:22):
always change that down. So alot of these themes are
recurring. And it's sad,because, you know, it's just a
denial of, and really, you know,it could have been better
oversight, because, again, youtouched on earlier gel, this was
a wide sweeping share of theblame from individuals, ruthless
individuals, to a constituencyor general public, to government
(23:42):
agencies, and really was a fluidsystem and it is shameful
legacy. And, and I although Ihaven't covered like parts of
New Jersey, which had tremendousamount of camps, and certainly
California is well documented,you know, this this area, you
know, as part of this similarsuffering that we see
nationwide, throughoutthroughout the years and
decades.
Joe Cadwell (24:03):
That's a microcosm and a bigger picture across the
United States. And for us beinga microcosm for the rest of the
world to some extent, takingadvantage of the workers. And
seeing those profits just spreadout very thinly at the very top
end of the spectrum.
Mark Torres (24:21):
And, you know, you think of the physical slum like
conditions of the camps, buteven if you move from that, and
you look at the specific jobconditions, like we were used to
looking at that, right, migrantworkers they had, they've always
had a lower life expectancy,high infant mortality, they
suffer weather related maladiesfrom heatstroke to to, you know,
to suffering from the coldweathers. In the book, I've
(24:44):
highlighted that there have beensome deaths where migrant
workers found dead in the road.
And you know, autopsy shows yettuberculosis for years. no
access to medical treatment.
Well, that could have easilybeen prevented. infectious
diseases a little access againto health care. You know, And
also pesticide poisonings, whichwhich are common but because of
(25:05):
long Alan's makeup and farms,the farms weren't as large as
the California. So no realstudies to determine the true
level of pesticide poisonings.
But evidence does show that wasillnesses from that, you know,
the planes, planes are flyingoverhead with these properties
pesticides and none of that wasever good and certainly wasn't
done.
Joe Cadwell (25:25):
Now a lot of these protections and and benefits
that we take for granted as asorganized labor workers would
regardless of what craft ortrade you're in the the livable
wages, the benefits, the medicalbenefits for you and your
family, the access to training,safer working conditions, the
pension, the representation,these were all all non existent
(25:47):
and are still not exist in alarge part of the American
working middle class. And if itweren't for unions, I think we
would really have a hard go ofit in this country.
Mark Torres (25:59):
Oh, absolutely. And it's sad that we're just above
6%, in unionized workforce andin the private sector. But you
know, and, and I think I thinkit's important to understand as
we were touching upon it, weshouldn't underestimate how hard
their work is, I call it stooplabor, you're bending down and
crawling to pick these fruits inthe relentless weather, whatever
you're facing, very taxing onthe body, that the accident rate
(26:20):
in 1970, was three times higherthan any other industry. Now, if
you think of 1970, you know,there was mining, there was all
these industries, and we knowthe dangers of any industry. But
yet, for some reason, it's kindof undermined, because of you
think I was just picking fruit,and by no means is easy. And in
this case, here in New York,that prior to 1965, they had no
(26:41):
access to workers comp, workerscompensation. So now these
workers had to sue in court,which is ever going to happen,
you know, unless they gotassistance. And a lot of times
they would lost limbs, a fingerand a foot, you know, the work
was very taxing. And I thinkthat part of it goes because
it's undermined what reallyhappens. And then, of course,
you know, when you cram peoplein the slum like conditions, you
(27:03):
abused them, you mistreat them,you robbed them, of course,
crime and violence is going tohappen. And there were many
accounts that I've captured inthe book of beatings, and
attacks, and murders, and thingsthat happen, you know, from
these camps, which not only is aburden to those who live there,
but also the greater communityand the first responders,
because they had to come andintervene now, and interject and
(27:25):
we believe resolve thesedisputes to the best they could.
I think one case in 1955, therewas a migrant worker who went
into his cabin, it was anotherworker, they were looking for
money, they had a dispute, hestabbed him and killed him, even
into the woods tried to hidepolice a call, they found them.
And that person was sent tojail, that person his name, he
(27:45):
was a famous blues artist namedsun house. So when house sun
house, and he spent it'sundetermined how long he spent
in jail, but he did certainlyresumed his career and recorded
quite a few records. And if youlook them up, you'll see Son
House, he had a pretty spiringcareer, but he came from one of
these camps and and you can seethat the tie into these, you
(28:06):
know, all of these examples.
Joe Cadwell (28:09):
So Mark, did you write this as a sort of a
historical novel? or How did youcraft the actual chapters of the
book?
Mark Torres (28:16):
Yeah, I think the best way to the best way for me
to describe it was sort of ajournalistic, investigative
journalistic approach. I totallychronologically I tell it from,
from my from identifying thecamps, working through the
system, but for me, mostimportantly, was it. It's about
people, and the effects on themfrom psychological to the
physical effects, and the abusesbut also on the county. And like
(28:40):
I said, first responders, it waskind of a holistic approach that
covered, really all the topicsthat I really could kind of put
in appropriate order. Andreally, you know, I'm quite
proud of the of the way not onlythe information was able to
uncover, but also put it in amanageable way that illuminates
to the reader, the whole system,and the effects on the people
(29:02):
involved.
Joe Cadwell (29:03):
And I really have to look at it, again, how
fortunate we are now for thepositions that we have within
our respective unions. And Ithink a lot of lot of folks
should really be wary of theattacks that are being made on
our labor organizations and nottrying to let our guard down
because there are people thereare forces out there wanting to
(29:24):
take away these, these benefitsand these wages that we again,
for lack of a better word, buttake for granted at this point,
and it's not too far away fromhaving right to work or national
reduction of the prevailing wagelaws that could then push us
back into a period that is nottoo far off from what you're
(29:45):
talking here.
Mark Torres (29:46):
Sure, you know, this this COVID relief bill,
which should be signed this weekis the first time I can remember
some relief to the to the unionsand labor in terms of the
pensions but strangely, it's notfor the unions and labor. It's
for the working people in thiscountry that that lived up to
their part of the bargain. Theywork for 2030 years or more. And
they expect a pension. And theywere very nearly close to me
(30:06):
wiped out and you know itteamsters and many others across
the country, and to get somerelief after so many years of
hoping and praying is helpful,but you're right, the fight goes
on I, you know, I dedicate thisbook to my wife and children, my
family, but to my brothers andsisters in labor, and I include
the farmworkers. So, I may nothave never met, may never meet,
(30:28):
but I certainly feel very, veryclosely their plight, and I
sympathize with it. And, youknow, I've reached out to
farmworker justice and evenlocal groups like Eastern farm
workers Association, and, and Iwork with them at to help share
this and share this, you know,the the, you know, and I would
Amaro really captured it. Sopointedly when he said, You
know, these are the people thatfeed our nation, and they're
(30:49):
treated horrifically, and itstill goes on. And, you know,
where are we as a society, if wecan look out for our lowest
brothers and sisters? You know,we lost so in many ways, it's
kind of a rekindling, and, andtying into the labor movement,
my passion for labor, which iswhy a large part of why I enjoy
you know, writing this book.
Joe Cadwell (31:11):
I agree wholeheartedly. Mark. Marcus has
been a fantastic conversation,where can our listeners go to
find out more about you and your
Mark Torres (31:19):
book? Sure, my, what my author page monitor is
author calm, and the book willbe published and released on
March 22, and will be publishedby the history press. It's
already you know, I'd reallyhave a heavy marketing Blitz on
Facebook and social media, andsend many, many events scheduled
across the next few months totry and share this history. You
(31:40):
know, as I said, earlier jobthat I designed this
presentation, which is soinformative that at times I
forget that it is pertaining toa book. But my goal has always
been and will always be to teachthis history. And I'm glad to
have captured it and present itand I hope one day it can be
used as a future reference to besourced and cited and, and
relied upon and other works inthis area.
Joe Cadwell (32:00):
As do i'm looking very forward to reading it.
Thank you again for taking yourtime to be on the show today.
Mark Torres (32:05):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Have a good
day.
Joe Cadwell (32:09):
All right. What do you think?
Mark Torres (32:10):
Great. Thank you.
Mark Torres, welcome to the show.
Mark Torres (01:31):
Thank you for having me, Joe. Glad to be here.
Joe Cadwell (01:33):
Well, thank you so much, Mark, for taking your time
to be on the show today to talkto our listeners about your
upcoming book. And I'm hopingbefore we get too deep into your
book Mark give us a quickbackstory on who you are. Sure,
Mark Torres (01:47):
I'm a labor attorney from New York, I'm
general counsel to a teamsterslocal a 10. In the Greater New
York City area represent 1000sof unionized workers. I've been
part of the labor movement foralmost 30 years myself, I have a
law degree from Fordham abachelor's degree from NYU. And
I'm also an author and I try topark as much of my work is aimed
to teach you particularly laborhistory, human rights history,
(02:09):
and approximate them. So mylatest work,
Joe Cadwell (02:12):
and I understand you, you've written three books
to date. And your fourth one,which we're going to be talking
about later in the show iscoming out here real soon.
What's the name of that book?
Mark Torres (02:22):
Sure. That is called Long Island migrant labor
camps, dust for blood. It is myfirst foray into nonfiction
historical. My other three booksmy I've written two fictional
crime novels, and, and thechildren's labor related
children's book called good guyJake, which is vacated teaches
our youth what unions do holidaythemed book was published my
(02:42):
humble price.
Joe Cadwell (02:44):
And how did you decide to to become an author?
What was your inspiration forthat?
Mark Torres (02:49):
You know, I was, you know, I love what I do. I
see myself as one of thosedinosaurs. So keep keep plugging
away for the labor movement aslong as I could, God willing.
But I also wanted to do more Ihad I've used the teaching of
wanting to reach out, I providedour union shops to a training,
and I enjoyed that I enjoyedconveying information in a
challenging but interesting way.
And that naturally branched offinto writing. I just wanted to
(03:10):
write and just kind of creating,you know, my work has always
aimed and enlightening andentertaining the readers and
even from fictional work, youknow, teaching past elements of
New York history eventuallymorphed into becoming, you know,
a nonfiction historical author,which I'm quite very, very proud
of.
Joe Cadwell (03:28):
And I know your book takes place in Long Island,
but do you live in Long Island?
Mark Torres (03:33):
I do. I live in Nassau County. The book itself
is centered in Suffolk County,it's the latter, probably two
thirds of long Allen, primarilyknown for its high agricultural
output potatoes and other crops.
And the book centers begins fromthe 1940s. During the World War
Two, labor shortage in generallyruns till around 2000, when a
lot of the camps from the heydayperiod died down from that the
(03:55):
peak period of the 1950s 1960.
Joe Cadwell (04:01):
And I know a lot of my listeners are here in the
northwest and maybe not have hadvisited New York. There are five
boroughs around the center ofNew York. And so when people
talk about crops growing, youdon't usually think of that in
New York. So this howgeographically How far is it
from say that the center wherethe Empire State Building would
(04:22):
be?
Mark Torres (04:22):
Sure, well, probably with between 80 and 90
miles east from New York Cityarea that runs along those two
forces, the North Fork and theSouth Fork, the South Fork is
more famous with the Hamptonsand Montauk. We've got friends a
little bit further, and on thenorth side and the North Fork
runs to orient point which isabout 80 miles so less than 100
miles on both forks.
(04:43):
And these are labor camps thatwere built. post World War Two,
and immigrant workers would cometo work seasonally to harvest
crops during World War Two Therewas a serious labor shortage,
people going off to war, theyhad trouble filling it, filling
(05:05):
that that void of workers, theytried everything from German POW
to to Boy Scouts and any localhelp, they can. But the shortage
was never really filled. So thegovernment initially sponsored
with local farmers, severalcontracts with the highlands of
Jamaica and Barbados. And theywere able to bring in these
workers from Jamaica andBarbados, to work at Easter four
(05:27):
camps in 1943. Shortly after thewar, those those contracts with
government sponsored contractsdied out, but the work was still
needed. And the farmers wouldthen network with local and crew
leaders and contractors, if youwill, to bring help, and they
would rely upon Mexican workers,workers from Puerto Rico. And
(05:48):
eventually, which turn primarilyto black workers from the US
south, primarily filled thatthat large need for manpower.
Joe Cadwell (05:56):
So they were filling a need, but somewhere
along the way, the livingconditions in these camps kind
of hit a low point, didn't they?
Mark Torres (06:05):
The early camps in the 40s, were were probably best
described as bare. Again, theywere government sponsors, so
kind of with all eyes on onthose camps. But over the years,
they vastly deteriorated. Andreally, you can tell by the
production in 1940, in 1943, thefour camps I mentioned, by 1951,
(06:25):
there were 28 camps. And then1958, that number ballooned to
134 labor camps. And the wordlabor camps are used
interchangeably. It's any formof housing, which could have
been old trailers abandonedhomes to modern or maybe not, at
the time, modern barracks, andcabin style units.
Joe Cadwell (06:45):
And these camps that you have written about why?
Well, let's back up just a bit.
Why did you decide to write thisstory about these camps?
Mark Torres (07:08):
First and foremost, it was shocking, the story
that's never been told, youknow, we're talking about 8090
miles from from New York City.
Heavy, high agricultural output,again, primarily on potatoes.
And the story, you know, theseareas are steeped in history,
they have a very deep historyand a lot of information going
back to the early settlers.
(07:29):
Yeah, here we are in the earlypart, mid mid 20th century, and
there was nothing written on it.
So my first goal was to capturethis history before it was lost
forever. And I'm proud while I'mproud to say I've capital A
great deal of it, I do know thata lot of it is lost forever,
right? I reached out to theSuffolk County Department of
Health, which is the governmentregulating body over these
camps. And I was I received over1000 documents from the
(07:52):
information request. And a lotof those documents were probably
from the 1980s. forward. So alot of the information prior to
that was lost. And that's sad,because I was able to do my
research, review over 300newspaper articles, read
documentaries, interviews withthose who may lose some still
surviving at the time, which arevery few. And I do not as
(08:13):
demonstrated a lot moreinformation that was last
forever. So while I'm proud tohave captured this history, it
is regrettable that that a lotof it was lost
forever,unfortunately.
Joe Cadwell (08:27):
And why do you feel no one's ever taken this project
on before?
Mark Torres (08:31):
Sure. Well, I believe largely it is an
agricultural area, I do believethat the constituents, so the
farmers, the industry, it's notthe positive type of history,
they would want to have shared.
So I'm sure you know, those inpower would have preferred not
to be discussed. But the thedata that I found, certainly and
certainly supports that it wasnot it was certainly a shameful
legacy for an area that is nowprosperous for its vineyards
(08:55):
and, and mansions and estates.
But it does have this darkhistory and, and I you know, the
way I see it is if any part ofhistory is lost in real estate,
it's a loss to humanity. Andthat's that's a shame. So, as I
grew into telling the story, myobligation grew to tell it more
and I'm glad to have uncoveredwhat I was able to do.
Joe Cadwell (09:16):
And in your research, what did you find?
Well,
Mark Torres (09:19):
Those camps at best was certainly probably can best
be described as poor tohorrendous slum like, you know,
the conditions deteriorated overtime. These facilities were
horrendous, they, you know,terribly smelling, dirty, no
(10:24):
water, really isolated areas,not insulated on no heat. And,
you know, to supplement for thatheat, a lot of the people who
live there would rely upon spaceheaters and, and kerosene
stoves. Unfortunately, therewere fires and horrific deaths
from that 11 day span for 1959.
Eight people died, includingyoung babies and adults. And
(10:45):
that, you know, that's anotherlarge part of the story that I
strive to tell is to kind ofcapture names, those who
perished in this migratory laborsystem, and there were quite a
few. And I can think of a 22year old mother named Jill see a
trend will be located there, shehad three children, three very
young children all under the ageof three at the time. It's a
cold January, she goes to likethe kerosene stove, the match,
(11:08):
the wick of the match falls ontothe rug, which is already
saturated with kerosene, theplace goes up, she, you know,
she tries to stand up thekerosene here, gets kerosene on
herself and effectively became aHuman Torch. She runs out of the
apartment or the home trying toextinguish the flames in the in
the mud outside, within secondsthe placement of the baby's
(11:30):
parents that she had died a weeklater. And you know, those are
the kinds of stories that thatreally hit home with me because
I wanted to share you know, butfor a few newspaper articles,
you know, that their herexistence was lost forever. And
I and I felt empowered to wantto capture that and share it the
book.
Joe Cadwell (11:48):
And this was in 1959, if I heard you correctly,
was 1959.
Mark Torres (11:51):
There were other camps that was in the cutshaw
and cutchogue, New York, whichis a beautiful area. It's known
for its vineyards and bucoliccountryside, one of the largest
labor camps existed there. Ithad the capacity to hold up 300
mega workers at a time. It wasthe first and probably only only
camp in New York state that hadits own school. Helen price
(12:13):
renowned the person in Southoldarea was was teaching the
children to the best you can theconditions were wretched,
generally wretched. And over theyears, and it will in 1961,
there was a fire for workers,they snuck in one of these
kerosene stoves for heat,because they struggled to afford
the 75 cents for the meals thatit cost at the camp and fire
(12:36):
went up. All four of them died,one died, one died shortly later
in the hospital, and you know,$25,000 in excess damage to the
facility. You know, in manyways, it's kind of a miracle
more people didn't perish inthat fire. And there were other
fires 1968 in Bridgehampton andJacobs labor camp, which is
really a rundown house at thatpoint. Three people perish
(12:57):
there. And you know, thesestories are just continuously
the wretched conditions. And alot of it, sadly, is due to the
economic exploitation becausethe crew leaders who would
typically black men or womanfrom the south themselves would
recruit these workers to come upto New York to stay for the
season. And they would abusethem both physically and
mentally. They would you know,if they, if they sensed that the
(13:21):
workers were susceptible toapproach alcoholism, they would
supply them with with wine,cheap wine to keep them
satisfied and quality, any kindof any animosity for not getting
paid. There was cheat cheatingof pay, one woman had went to
Riverhead court to complain thatshe was getting Social Security
taken out of her paycheck, butshe never saw security card. You
(13:41):
know, that's the kind of rampantabuse that was going on. And the
from the farmers perspective,they only dealt with the crew
leaders. So they kind ofoutsourced their liability
responsibility to the workers.
And we just deal with the crewleader and the crew later with,
you know, cut and turn and cheatand do everything he or she can
to abuse and exploit theseworkers. They're really a
terrible economic and physicaland mental toll on these
(14:03):
workers.
Joe Cadwell (14:06):
Yeah, sure. Sounds like it and again, post World
War Two through the 50s and 60sthat romanticized vision of
America that that everyone has,it sounds like there was quite a
disparity between that visionand what these people were truly
experiencing in these laborcamps. And they were susceptible
to the conditions that they werethey were, you know, put upon
(14:31):
them. And did they have anyrecourse? Was there any way that
they could, could bring theseliving conditions to the
authorities or the it doesn'tsound like there was any type of
unionism at all
Mark Torres (14:42):
or that that was the first problem which still
exists today. Under the NationalLabor Relations Act, foreign
workers are excluded from laborlaw protections. So on the
federal level, they have norecourse state level. It wasn't
until this year. In fact, I'msorry 2020 2020 when we got
finally enacted a measuresimilar to California Which did
in the 1970s, to offer someprotections and rights and
(15:03):
benefits, but ultimately theidea of joining union was not
existed. I, you know, the he waslittle help, there was no
appetite for the constituents ofthe county, for the public
government to act, even thepublic, it was largely a
different, whether willful or,or just, you know, just didn't
know what was going on, youknow, these camps are all almost
all the time situated in, in thebackwoods, rural places miles
(15:27):
from nears town, and that hadits own problems and other
workers were left isolated. Youknow, the recourse would be if
there were complaints, you know,someone would just call the
local police and more often thannot, it's to maybe bring up a
fight or violence or, orsomething there, but it was
never any kind of place to live.
There were a few examples ofbecause part of my book, the
latter part certainly coverswhat I call better angels. There
(15:49):
were some people and groups whoreally strive to fight against a
system that think of authorBrian or a pastor from
Greenpoint for more than 10years. He took it upon himself
to go to Congress to testify in1969. against the deplorable
conditions of the camp. Hereceived death threats for that.
Imagine a pillar of thecommunity is going to get
(16:10):
shunned. But just trying to helpthese people, I think of Mary
Kay stone, a woman, a very, veryApple woman, woman from the
Boston area, who left her reallyaffluent lifestyle, and we
located in Riverhead, to helpthese people. She did offer
training and courses to try toteach the workers, different
trades carpentry construction,they can escape the migrant
(16:32):
stream and find more steadywork. You know, so you know,
there were some people in groupswho really strive to help. In
fact, the marriage a stonescase, you filed several
different cases I say there werecourt cases they were filed.
Even though it was governed bythe Department of Labor, there
were local cases that wereheard, and most of it was
cheating out of pay taxes, othertypes of physical abuse, but any
(16:54):
kind of justice was really fewand far between most of the
times, it was a horrendoussystem from top to bottom.
Joe Cadwell (17:03):
And there was no oversight the government was
basically absolved of anyresponsibility. The labor unions
were ineffectual and unable toget in there. The media it seems
like when I tried to do someresearch mark, again, you are a
pioneer and putting out yourbook and, and shining some light
on the these conditions. I didstumble across a video by Edward
(17:25):
R. Murrow and CBS News calledharvest of shame. But that was
more of a sort of a broaderspectrum, looking at the
conditions across the US inregards to the agricultural
workers showing and that and
Mark Torres (17:37):
that video by I mean, that's just an excellent
video that captures on anational level from generally
from Florida, up through Maine,and it does touch on California,
is that with three mikingstudents at the time that the
West Coast mostly Californiaarea, you think of the Midwest,
which was covered a lot of a lotof the growth through Texas and
then you think of the east coastfrom Florida to Maine. But I was
(18:01):
able to dig deeper, I did findthat other read documentaries
called what harvest for theReaper, this was produced in
1969. And and that really shedlight specifically on the
control camp, it was the firstand only true documentary and
not only that, it shed light onthe conditions, but it really
did a great job of explainingthe economic exploitation. And
I'll give you certain examplesof the way the you know the way
(18:23):
it worked. So when the Kool Aidit goes say he contracts with
the Long Island farmers hedrives down in his bus or
whatever vehicle to say Arkansashe would recoup workers and
their their veteran waiting timein Arkansas was say $1 is 1969
in New York with generally $1.35today what's all the work is
look like get to 35 or moregreat place to work. And of
(18:44):
course, you know, there justcan't be poverty in poverty
stricken south, they would gofor the ride the minute they
step on the bus, they're alreadyindebted to that crew leader for
both the right there and theright back Of course, right
because it was seasonal. So nowthey're and and from that point
on throughout the whole timethey're chasing this perpetual
debt. You know, they're thecosts that are open or hidden,
(19:06):
right housing costs, food,transportation, blanket bs you
try. There's all these littlethings that are added in there.
There's no written contract.
It's basically at the whim ofthe the crew leader. If the cult
leader really had an interview,he would just say you're not
working today, and you wouldstay at the camp. And now you're
still incurring the debt, butyou're but you have no income.
The wardens who didn't work, youknow, farmers would come pick
(19:27):
them up, they'd happen to pickup chalk or what sometimes they
get a ride. They work on thefarm on the farms, picking
tomatoes and all the otherthings they do. And then they
get back and the crew leader ofcourse would get a cut out of
their pay. He would also get acut from the farmers for for
each day each worker that hesupplied. We don't work. So Joe
Kulina was making all differentways. And again, and I'll give
(19:50):
you an example though a hugemarkup on items. It was a
popular one a cheap CaliforniaWine called Twister at the time
at a local liquor store wouldsell for 61 cents at the camp,
it will be sold for over $1. Sonow you think, alright, just go
to the golden liquor store ifyou if you're so inclined and
get it miles away. And not onlyis it difficult to get it, if
(20:10):
you did do it and the crewleader found out, there will be
repercussions, it would bepunitive, he would frown upon
that. Another big problem was,there was no pay during work
stoppages. So, if a machinebroke down for four hours out of
the eight, then I paid for theeight hours, they just paid for
the four. So in essence, theirtheir daily output is cut in
half. But the the expensivestolen car, and this kept kept
(20:31):
perpetuating a vicious cycle ofdebt that is going to really
take a toll on anybody, right?
If you think about it, and withlittle recourse, there was
little, you know, you're, youknow, 1000 miles away, you're
not just gonna go home quickly.
Joe Cadwell (20:46):
Indentured servants, slaves to the
company's store, it almost seemslike a form of modern day
slavery in these camps wereallowed to operate again from
the late 40s.
Mark Torres (20:57):
Until when then, well, well, strangely enough,
there are still some camps. Now,it's a lot different. Now,
obviously, a large part is thethere's more affordable Low
Income Housing available, thereis more oversight. And really, I
kind of kind of wanted tocapture this story from its peak
period from its inception to thepeak period. So I chose 2000, at
(21:21):
the end of, you know, the end ofthe decade and wanted to leave
it at that. But, you know, theconditions aren't as as bad as
they were. But as we all know,they still are. I mean, there's
a lot of venues that works veryintensive. And, and, you know, I
haven't done a deep dive intomodern post 2000. But we, you
know, just from from earlyreports, you can just tell that
it's not as ideal as you wouldlike, especially farm workers
(21:44):
across the country, particularlywith COVID. They're getting
decimated, there's littleprotections, the prior
administration really wasn'tinclined to help. We're hopeful
that that some relief can come.
But But generally, from really,throughout this, throughout this
country, you know, thefarmworkers have had the raw end
of the deal. They've been on thebottom the last to get, and they
continuously suffer, yet theyprovide food for a nation really
(22:06):
is a sad spell with it. Youknow, I've never represented I
you know, as a teamster, Irepresent truckers warehouse,
meaning skill maintenance, Ihaven't had haven't had, we
don't have farm workers. But Itell you, I see them as as our
brothers and sisters, like anyother union member, and I really
sympathize with them.
Joe Cadwell (22:28):
That's a fantastic job that you do. And I'd like to
learn a little bit more aboutthat. Mark, myself being with
the carpenters union, you beingwith the the Teamsters,
organized labor, as you're awareof is constantly under attack on
the government level, the greedfrom giant corporations that are
trying to reach into the workingman and women's pocket to the
(22:50):
further path around what whatlessons have you learned? And
what parallels Can you drawbetween the situation that you
you wrote about and where we'reat today,
Mark Torres (23:00):
certainly, the themes are always recurring,
where industry in this case,industry became more valuable in
human life. And you see that nowwhere, you know, hard working
men and women are trying toorganize a union and companies
come in and, and, you know,they'll spend millions of
dollars to keep unions out.
Whether it's by you know, baitand switch will offer a slight
raise to make them happy. Andthen you know, then they can
(23:22):
always change that down. So alot of these themes are
recurring. And it's sad,because, you know, it's just a
denial of, and really, you know,it could have been better
oversight, because, again, youtouched on earlier gel, this was
a wide sweeping share of theblame from individuals, ruthless
individuals, to a constituencyor general public, to government
(23:42):
agencies, and really was a fluidsystem and it is shameful
legacy. And, and I although Ihaven't covered like parts of
New Jersey, which had tremendousamount of camps, and certainly
California is well documented,you know, this this area, you
know, as part of this similarsuffering that we see
nationwide, throughoutthroughout the years and
decades.
Joe Cadwell (24:03):
That's a microcosm and a bigger picture across the
United States. And for us beinga microcosm for the rest of the
world to some extent, takingadvantage of the workers. And
seeing those profits just spreadout very thinly at the very top
end of the spectrum.
Mark Torres (24:21):
And, you know, you think of the physical slum like
conditions of the camps, buteven if you move from that, and
you look at the specific jobconditions, like we were used to
looking at that, right, migrantworkers they had, they've always
had a lower life expectancy,high infant mortality, they
suffer weather related maladiesfrom heatstroke to to, you know,
to suffering from the coldweathers. In the book, I've
(24:44):
highlighted that there have beensome deaths where migrant
workers found dead in the road.
And you know, autopsy shows yettuberculosis for years. no
access to medical treatment.
Well, that could have easilybeen prevented. infectious
diseases a little access againto health care. You know, And
also pesticide poisonings, whichwhich are common but because of
(25:05):
long Alan's makeup and farms,the farms weren't as large as
the California. So no realstudies to determine the true
level of pesticide poisonings.
But evidence does show that wasillnesses from that, you know,
the planes, planes are flyingoverhead with these properties
pesticides and none of that wasever good and certainly wasn't
done.
Joe Cadwell (25:25):
Now a lot of these protections and and benefits
that we take for granted as asorganized labor workers would
regardless of what craft ortrade you're in the the livable
wages, the benefits, the medicalbenefits for you and your
family, the access to training,safer working conditions, the
pension, the representation,these were all all non existent
(25:47):
and are still not exist in alarge part of the American
working middle class. And if itweren't for unions, I think we
would really have a hard go ofit in this country.
Mark Torres (25:59):
Oh, absolutely. And it's sad that we're just above
6%, in unionized workforce andin the private sector. But you
know, and, and I think I thinkit's important to understand as
we were touching upon it, weshouldn't underestimate how hard
their work is, I call it stooplabor, you're bending down and
crawling to pick these fruits inthe relentless weather, whatever
you're facing, very taxing onthe body, that the accident rate
(26:20):
in 1970, was three times higherthan any other industry. Now, if
you think of 1970, you know,there was mining, there was all
these industries, and we knowthe dangers of any industry. But
yet, for some reason, it's kindof undermined, because of you
think I was just picking fruit,and by no means is easy. And in
this case, here in New York,that prior to 1965, they had no
(26:41):
access to workers comp, workerscompensation. So now these
workers had to sue in court,which is ever going to happen,
you know, unless they gotassistance. And a lot of times
they would lost limbs, a fingerand a foot, you know, the work
was very taxing. And I thinkthat part of it goes because
it's undermined what reallyhappens. And then, of course,
you know, when you cram peoplein the slum like conditions, you
(27:03):
abused them, you mistreat them,you robbed them, of course,
crime and violence is going tohappen. And there were many
accounts that I've captured inthe book of beatings, and
attacks, and murders, and thingsthat happen, you know, from
these camps, which not only is aburden to those who live there,
but also the greater communityand the first responders,
because they had to come andintervene now, and interject and
(27:25):
we believe resolve thesedisputes to the best they could.
I think one case in 1955, therewas a migrant worker who went
into his cabin, it was anotherworker, they were looking for
money, they had a dispute, hestabbed him and killed him, even
into the woods tried to hidepolice a call, they found them.
And that person was sent tojail, that person his name, he
(27:45):
was a famous blues artist namedsun house. So when house sun
house, and he spent it'sundetermined how long he spent
in jail, but he did certainlyresumed his career and recorded
quite a few records. And if youlook them up, you'll see Son
House, he had a pretty spiringcareer, but he came from one of
these camps and and you can seethat the tie into these, you
(28:06):
know, all of these examples.
Joe Cadwell (28:09):
So Mark, did you write this as a sort of a
historical novel? or How did youcraft the actual chapters of the
book?
Mark Torres (28:16):
Yeah, I think the best way to the best way for me
to describe it was sort of ajournalistic, investigative
journalistic approach. I totallychronologically I tell it from,
from my from identifying thecamps, working through the
system, but for me, mostimportantly, was it. It's about
people, and the effects on themfrom psychological to the
physical effects, and the abusesbut also on the county. And like
(28:40):
I said, first responders, it waskind of a holistic approach that
covered, really all the topicsthat I really could kind of put
in appropriate order. Andreally, you know, I'm quite
proud of the of the way not onlythe information was able to
uncover, but also put it in amanageable way that illuminates
to the reader, the whole system,and the effects on the people
(29:02):
involved.
Joe Cadwell (29:03):
And I really have to look at it, again, how
fortunate we are now for thepositions that we have within
our respective unions. And Ithink a lot of lot of folks
should really be wary of theattacks that are being made on
our labor organizations and nottrying to let our guard down
because there are people thereare forces out there wanting to
(29:24):
take away these, these benefitsand these wages that we again,
for lack of a better word, buttake for granted at this point,
and it's not too far away fromhaving right to work or national
reduction of the prevailing wagelaws that could then push us
back into a period that is nottoo far off from what you're
(29:45):
talking here.
Mark Torres (29:46):
Sure, you know, this this COVID relief bill,
which should be signed this weekis the first time I can remember
some relief to the to the unionsand labor in terms of the
pensions but strangely, it's notfor the unions and labor. It's
for the working people in thiscountry that that lived up to
their part of the bargain. Theywork for 2030 years or more. And
they expect a pension. And theywere very nearly close to me
(30:06):
wiped out and you know itteamsters and many others across
the country, and to get somerelief after so many years of
hoping and praying is helpful,but you're right, the fight goes
on I, you know, I dedicate thisbook to my wife and children, my
family, but to my brothers andsisters in labor, and I include
the farmworkers. So, I may nothave never met, may never meet,
(30:28):
but I certainly feel very, veryclosely their plight, and I
sympathize with it. And, youknow, I've reached out to
farmworker justice and evenlocal groups like Eastern farm
workers Association, and, and Iwork with them at to help share
this and share this, you know,the the, you know, and I would
Amaro really captured it. Sopointedly when he said, You
know, these are the people thatfeed our nation, and they're
(30:49):
treated horrifically, and itstill goes on. And, you know,
where are we as a society, if wecan look out for our lowest
brothers and sisters? You know,we lost so in many ways, it's
kind of a rekindling, and, andtying into the labor movement,
my passion for labor, which iswhy a large part of why I enjoy
you know, writing this book.
Joe Cadwell (31:11):
I agree wholeheartedly. Mark. Marcus has
been a fantastic conversation,where can our listeners go to
find out more about you and your
Mark Torres (31:19):
book? Sure, my, what my author page monitor is
author calm, and the book willbe published and released on
March 22, and will be publishedby the history press. It's
already you know, I'd reallyhave a heavy marketing Blitz on
Facebook and social media, andsend many, many events scheduled
across the next few months totry and share this history. You
(31:40):
know, as I said, earlier jobthat I designed this
presentation, which is soinformative that at times I
forget that it is pertaining toa book. But my goal has always
been and will always be to teachthis history. And I'm glad to
have captured it and present itand I hope one day it can be
used as a future reference to besourced and cited and, and
relied upon and other works inthis area.
Joe Cadwell (32:00):
As do i'm looking very forward to reading it.
Thank you again for taking yourtime to be on the show today.
Mark Torres (32:05):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Have a good
day.
Joe Cadwell (32:09):
All right. What do you think?
Mark Torres (32:10):
Great. Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.