January 3, 2023 • 42 mins
Welcome to Grit Nation.
On this episode I have the pleasure of speaking with Dan Kerrigan the author of Functional Firefighter Fitness.
Though written for firefighters this book is packed full of solid advice to help you maximize your output on the job no matter what your trade is.
We’ll open our conversation by discussing what it means to be “fit for duty” as we investigate the similarities construction industry professionals share with other craft that rely not only on their cognitive abilities to get the job done but their physicality too.
Next Dan will explain how Physical Fitness, Rest and Recovery, Hydration and Nutrition make up the Four Pillars of his program, and why it is so important to master each one to achieve optimal health and peak performance.
Later we unpack the BIG 8 and understand why spending hours in the gym isn’t necessary to achieve the muscular endurance, cardio conditioning and flexibility that keep your body healthy and strong.
And we’ll end our conversation by giving you the resources needed to make proper lifestyle decisions now that will allow you to maximize output, minimize injuries, and set you up for success into your later years.
The Show Notes
Firefighter Functional Fitness
https://www2.firefighterfunctionalfitness.com/
Union Home Plus helps union members save money when they buy, sell, or finance their home.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan Kerrigan (00:00):
If you just picture your bias like a high
(00:02):
performing sports car, right, ifyou happen to own a Ferrari, and
you put diesel fuel in thatFerrari, what's going to happen?
It's not going to perform at thelevel you would expect it to
perform at right? Our bodies orour vehicles, right? That's what
they are. So what we put in,that's what's going to keep us
going and what's going to keepus healthy.
Joe Cadwell (00:20):
Welcome to Grit Nation. I'm Joe Cadwell, the
host of the show, and in thisepisode, I have the pleasure of
speaking with Dan Kerrigan, theauthor of Functional Firefighter
Fitness.
(00:40):
Written for firefighters. Thisbook is packed full of solid
advice to help you maximize youroutput on the job. No matter
what you trade, itwill open our conversation by
discussing what it means to befit for duty. As we investigate
the similarities constructionindustry professionals share
with other crap that rely notonly on their cognitive
abilities to get the job donetheir physicality to
(01:02):
next Dan will explain howphysical fitness, rest and
recovery hydration and nutritionmake up the four pillars of his
program, and why it's soimportant to master each one to
achieve optimal health and peakperformance. Later, we unpack
the big eight and understand whyspending hours in the gym isn't
necessary to achieve themuscular endurance, cardio
(01:22):
conditioning and flexibilitythat keep your body healthy and
strong. And well underconversation by giving you the
resources needed to make properlifestyle decisions now that
will allow you to maximizeoutput, minimize injuries and
set you up for success into yourlater years. After this episode,
(01:43):
be sure to visit the show noteswhere you can find more
information to help you divedeeper into the subject. And now
on to the show.
Dan Kerrigan, welcome to GritNation.
Dan Kerrigan (02:03):
Thanks, man.
Appreciate you having me.
Joe Cadwell (02:05):
Yeah, thank you so much, Dan, for taking your time
to be on the show today to talkto my listeners about fitness,
and the importance of havingfitness in order to do the job.
Dan, I understand you wrote abook a few years ago called
firefighter functional fitness.
What got you interested inwriting that book?
Dan Kerrigan (02:22):
Well, it's a long story, but I'll try to kind of
condense it down into a Reader'sDigest version. Several years
ago, I got deeply involved on anumber of levels with
firefighter health and wellness,just because I was doing some
research at the time at theNational Fire Academy for a
project I was working on,concurrently. A department that
(02:46):
I was with, I kind of identifieda problem there within the
department in that area. So Iwanted to help I wanted to try
to make improvements there basedon what we learned. And then
thirdly, quite honestly, for mewas just a realization that as I
got older, and I was performingout on the fire ground, my my
(03:09):
recovery time, the stamina andall those things that you know,
your your 40 something year oldbody can't keep up with your 20
something year old brainanymore. And I came to the
realization that I was I waspretty much not invincible, like
we all think we are, we wereyounger. So there were several
things that got got mepersonally involved with it. At
(03:30):
the same time, I had met JimMoss, my partner and co author,
we were both out, they're kindof putting those messages out to
the fire service about this sortof thing and trying to encourage
people to take better care ofthemselves. I reached out to him
one day suggests that we mightwrite an article or something
(03:51):
like that on functional fitness,and which we ended up doing and
it got to be incredibly popular.
Fire Service circles, if youwill, it really, really went off
the charts in terms of itsreadership and all that and it
kind of got us got us moreinvolved in that. So there's
really not anything out there inthe fire service. That's, that's
(04:13):
there to help people to help tohelp the individual firefighter
do a better job of taking careof themselves and to we had so
much material, like jokinglysaid one day, we could write a
book. And next thing, you know,we wrote a book, and that's
really, that's how it started.
And it kind of was a fluidthing. And we didn't set out to
(04:36):
do that right away, which isprobably a good thing because
you know, we didn't have achance to talk ourselves out of
it or anything like that. Sohere we are today. It's in 50
plus countries around the worldand I think it's hit number one
bestseller in its category onAmazon three separate times
since it's been published andwe're very blessed and humbled
(04:56):
the people Did they find ituseful? And it's helping people
that really makes makes us feelgood every day?
Joe Cadwell (05:06):
Yeah, heck yeah.
It's in again, when I wasresearching occupational fitness
for the show, I couldn't findanything that dealt with
construction. So a lot of peopleright now are listening to the
show going, Well, why are youtalking with a firefighter
about, you know, functionalfitness or firefighting, but
there's so many directcorrelations between the
physicality that is needed towork in your occupation, and the
majority of my listeners workingin the building trades. And
(05:29):
we'll get into some of thosecrossovers here in a bit. But
the difficulty was findingsomething that was practical,
and not just based on building,you know, muscle mass and
looking looking good and rippedcoming out of the gym. But
actually having muscleendurance, having good
cardiovascular fitness, havingflexibility, and basically
conditioning yourself to be ableto do the work that is called
(05:51):
for, and not just in the shortterm, but in the long term,
making sure that you stayphysically fit for the duration
of your career as a professionalCarpenter, or iron worker, or
electrician or plumber, orlabor, you know, and that is the
heart and soul of why I've askedyou on the show, and I'm so
happy that you, you have takenyour time. So I've got to ask
(06:11):
the question, Dan, why isn't Iwork hard? I'm going to hear a
lot of people saying right nowlistening, I work hard, why
isn't my hard work enough tokeep me physically fit? Why do I
need to push a little bit beyondthat and consider conditioning
myself.
Dan Kerrigan (06:27):
So we need to make sure that we are taking care of
our bodies so that our bodiescan perform at their best when
we're asking them to do themost. And I want to make it
clear, and I'm sure we'll talkabout the pillars, but we are
not two people that just talkabout going to the gym working
out, right? It's a very, it's asmall part of a bigger picture.
(06:48):
It's a comprehensive approach,right? So there's a lot more to
it. It's what we eat, it's howwe live our life, it's arrests
or recovery or sleep habits, howwell we hydrate ourselves, all
of those things come into play.
And they can easily be easily beapplied to pretty much life in
general, right. And certainlywhat you do what I do, maybe
(07:08):
there's a little bit more of animpact, because it's a physical
job. And then the other part ofit is just the longevity. And
you mentioned that right? We'renot just trying to help
firefighters become higherperformers, when they're on the
job. We're not, we're not justtrying to reduce the risk of
injury, which is something thatI think we can agree on is is
(07:30):
really important in the tradesas well as as firefighting and
public safety. And there's a bigpart of it there. We're trying
to, we're trying to get youthrough a career, where you
enjoy it. And then when youretire, that you can also enjoy
your retirement. And in the fireservice. We know many, many
people that that have a 2025 30year career, and then within a
(07:54):
couple years of retirement, theypass away for one reason or
another and who wants to dothat, right? Who don't you want
to like, you know, get all thatall that money you put into your
pension benefit, right? Sure,right. I mean, you earned it,
you deserve it. And the only wayyou're going to ensure a really,
you know, help yourself toachieve that longevity is if you
(08:15):
take care of yourself now, youknow, I mean, we can't predict
everything, certainly. But Ithink that logic would tell you
that that those of us that dotake care of ourselves
physically, and and otherwiseare going to have a better
opportunity to enjoy a longerretirement as well. That's and
it sounded to me like you and Iare kind of in the same general
(08:38):
age range. So you know, hey,that, that that's becoming more
and more important to me, you'reevery year that goes by?
Joe Cadwell (08:47):
Yeah, for sure.
Extending that quality of life.
And again, it all starts withbuilding a foundation of
awareness of investing inyourself in a physical fitness
standpoint, and also adoptinghealthy lifestyles. And so if we
built a solid foundation, now wetalk about the four pillars,
Dan, and that that you know,getting into your book, you have
(09:08):
four pillars there the first onefirst pillar is the physical
fitness side of it. The secondone is the recovery and rest.
Hydration is your third pillar,we'll get into that one that's
interesting to me, and then thenutrition and lifestyle choices.
So let's go back to the to thefirst pillar of physical
fitness. And when we think aboutfitness, again, it's not just
about having that ripped BOD,but actually having muscles that
(09:32):
can do the work required andhaving a cardio vascular
endurance to help you do thework. So how do you how do you
gain that?
Dan Kerrigan (09:39):
First, I just want to reiterate your point and make
it known to everybody they maylisten Is that what we're is
what we're not about, right whatwhat Jim and I are not about is
the Beachbody, the shredded absand those sorts of physique type
goals that that individuals mayhave. No, we're not saying that
you shouldn't have thosepersonal goals, but our approach
(10:01):
is strictly performance based,it's being the best you can be
in every area of physicalperformance from talking about
physical fitness. So, so really,it's all about function, right?
It's about what do you do? Andwhat can make you better at what
you do in your own life, right.
So if you think about a gymnast,or a football player, or a
(10:24):
hockey player or a soccerplayer, they all train
physically for the occupation,essentially, that's what it is
for, not for the occupation thatthey're involved in. And they do
certain things, certain ways tobe better at what they do.
Right? Well, why shouldn't we?
(10:44):
Right, that was our point, rightfrom the beginning is that we
ought to be training to bebetter firefighters. And in
order to do that we need toincorporate or replicate those
movements and things that we doout there on the fire ground.
And that's really what bate whatthe basis of functional fitness
is, if you if you can answerthree questions, is it safe? Is
(11:07):
it effective? And is itfunctional? You can answer yes
to those three questions, thenyou're probably on the right
track already. Right. But whatour goal is to get you in a
position where you'rereplicating the kinds of
movements and patterns that youdo on the fire ground, and do
that in the gym. And that'sreally, that's really what it
is.
Joe Cadwell (11:26):
And not to get in specific exercises per se. But
in under the pillar of physicalfitness, you talk about the
pushing, exercises, the pullingexercises, the lifting
exercises, the carryingexercises, and the dragging type
exercises in this area, I assumeare what a lot of firefighters
do and it sounds like what a lotof our carpenters and building
(11:49):
trades professionals are alsorequired to do out in the field.
So how would you how would yougain those type of strength? Say
you only have two days a weekyou can you can devote towards
your physicality? How would yougain those?
Dan Kerrigan (12:02):
You mentioned, basically what you mentioned is
the five functional strengthtraining components of the Big
Eight, right? Prior to that wewould talk about core strengths,
cardiovascular capacity andflexibility as being the sort of
foundational components, right?
I think you would agree with methat in the trades, your core,
you need to have a strong core,right? We're not just talking
(12:23):
about shredded abs, we'retalking about front sides and
back of your torso in your inyour back. Right. So that's,
that's the basis for all of itfrom the strength standpoint.
How do we we associate pushpull, lift, carry and drag?
Because as you said, that's whatwe do out on the fire ground. So
how does one accomplish thatmission on you set a two day a
(12:44):
week type of a schedule? Well,if I were trying to design a
program for you that you wereonly able to work out two days a
week, I probably would focus onwhat we call HIIT training, high
intensity interval training,because what you can do then is
you can combine thecardiovascular capacity training
(13:04):
that we need for endurance withwhat what's really, really
important to us muscularendurance training. So you can
do physical strength exercisesin a high intensity format that
kind of kills two birds with onestone, if you will, right. So we
incorporate things like pushups, pull ups, squats, mountain
(13:25):
climbers, any anything likethat, that's going to engage in
either, you know, pushingmovements, upper body strength
movements, lower body pushes,and pulling movements, engaging
your core dragging, polling,doing things like that, that
benefit us out there in the realworld. And that's how I would do
(13:46):
it. If you only gave me two daysa week, I probably would assign
to pretty based on your overallconditioning, I probably would
give you two pretty stout, highintensity interval training
workouts, if you would, thatwe're going to incorporate all
that all that stuff
Joe Cadwell (14:03):
for you. And that's a good point that you just
brought up there your base levelof conditioning, obviously
getting in any sort of physicalfitness program, you want to
make sure that you start offsensibly that you don't create
injury, but also, you know,understanding that someone who
is 20 something years old versussomeone who's 40 something years
old, that their level of highintensity is going to vary
(14:24):
greatly. I imagine so you haveto sort of cater it to your own
where you are in life.
Dan Kerrigan (14:29):
Well, so yeah, and we have metrics for that,
actually. I mean, part of it isknowing your own level of
fitness and conditioning and youlike in our book, for example,
we have a pretty basic selfassessment that you can do. You
can just go through a series ofmovements and exercises and kind
of rate yourself where youfollowing those categories to
(14:49):
get yourself a baseline if youwill, to start from from a more
clinical standpoint, a 40 yearold person, their theoretical
maximum heart rate is going tobe less than a 22 year old
person. And you can easilycalculate that, and you'll know
it for a year over a year, youknow, you take 220 minus your
(15:10):
age, and that's your, that'syour theoretical maximum heart
rate. So we know what that is.
And then we take a percentage ofthat based on our fitness goals
for the session that we areengaging in. So for doing high
intensity interval training, ourtarget heart rate is 85% of our
theoretical maximum heart rate.
(15:31):
If we're doing endurance basedtraining, you know, like,
longer, you know, swimming orrunning on the treadmill at a
jog, you know, those kinds ofmore endurance based training
sessions, then you're at 70%.
So, so some of it is knowingyour own level of conditioning,
which you know, we can help youwith. And then the other part of
it is just now where do I needto be, so that I know that I'm
(15:54):
actually benefiting from all thework that I'm doing. And that's
where the theoretical maximumheart rate comes in.
Joe Cadwell (16:01):
And it sounds like earlier, you were talking about
a lot of bodyweight typeexercises, and probably the only
piece of equipment you wouldneed is a heart rate monitor of
some sort to be able to monitorthose thresholds,
Dan Kerrigan (16:13):
I could give you a way to tell if you're a bear
without even anywhere horribleto be honest with there's
something called a TOC test. Therule of thumb is that if you are
engaged in that kind ofactivity, and you can speak a
full sentence, but it's it'sunder Labor, it's hard to get it
at Imagine if you're jogging ona treadmill, and somebody comes
(16:33):
up and wants to start talking toyou. Right? And you're you're
trying to answer their question,and you're kind of getting a
sentence out, but you're like,not able to do it, you're in
that 70% range, right? If youwant to hit the high intensity
range, you shouldn't be able tospeak more than one or two words
at a time without having to takea breath. It's that simple. Just
Joe Cadwell (16:54):
Just get out, leave me alone.
Dan Kerrigan (16:57):
Yeah, get out, that's kind of your busy, right?
You know that that's kind of aan organic type of a test, just
if you don't have a wearable,you don't have anything like
that, you can go by that aswell,
Joe Cadwell (17:10):
that makes a lot of sense. And that hit training, it
sounds like you know, hit kindof works in three different
realms, the immediate are sortof the explosive training, and
then that would quickly go intoanaerobic training. And then
more relaxed would be in the,the aerobic spectrum, or part of
the spectrum. Yeah, you
Dan Kerrigan (17:27):
you don't, you've done some research. Um, so yeah,
so and they those three stageson the, on the fitness
continuum, if you will, areimportant to us as as
firefighters, you know,especially because we need to be
good at all those levels. But ifsomebody were asked me and I get
asked this a lot, where wherewould your main focus be? For
(17:50):
us, our main focus is in thatanaerobic state and that middle
state, right, because that'swhere we're, that's where our
limitations are going to reartheir ugly heads, if you will,
right. You know, we need to beexplosive and powerful for very
short bursts. But most of ourmost of our continuous work
happens in that anaerobic statewhere we're, we're continuing to
(18:13):
push at a moderate to highlevel, but we still need that
staying power as well. So that'swhere you're gonna find where
you start cramping up or losingyour grip strength. And, you
know, those kinds of feelingsthat I'm sure that we've all
had, that you're you're near andnear the limits of your
endurance. That's what we'retrying to concentrate most
Joe Cadwell (18:30):
great. And earlier, I said two days a week, ideally,
Dan, what would you say would bethe best, you know, program for
someone wanting to maintainfitness outside of work, and not
necessarily turning into a gymrack, but just wanting to be
active? What would you say? Howmany days a week would would be
ideal?
Dan Kerrigan (18:46):
I you know, it's it's a good question. I'm gonna
skate around that a little bitand say that, that it's an
individual thing, one of themost important things that, that
you have to do as a person isyou have to be realistic in your
commitment to your fitness. Andso if you tell yourself, I'm
going to work out six days aweek, and you know, damn well
(19:09):
that you can't, you can't dothat, given your life and your
family and all the obligationsthat you have, then you're
probably going to fail. Right?
So I would rather say, I wouldrather you tell me that you're
going to commit to three days aweek or four days a week and
actually stick to it. So I wouldsay at a bare minimum, three or
four days a week is reallywhat's required and really what
(19:31):
once we decide how many days aweek you can commit to it. Then
we can structure a programaround that so that you're still
getting the most bang for yourbuck. Jim and I are fitness
minimalist. We do not want orpromote or expect anybody to and
you know, I say you know, 28hours a day, 19 days a week in
(19:52):
the gym, right? That's notreally a lot of fun. You want to
live your life to let's go We'remore targeted on being
efficient. Getting in theregetting done what you need to
get done for that session andthen going about on about your
day, half hour, 40 minutes Ican, I can make you feel very
much like you had one heck of aworkout and 20 to 30 minutes I
(20:15):
can, I can put you through a 20minute hit session and you'll
theoretically be crawling out ofgym, you know, I mean, not that
we want you to be doing that.
But you don't need to be inthere for an hour, hour and a
half every day.
Joe Cadwell (20:30):
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the show. And you had mentionedfun and I think fun is a big
component, you have to findexercise that you actually
enjoy, whether it's you know,shooting hoops, playing
pickleball, hitting the golfcourse going out for walks all
that is sort of builds into ahealthy lifestyle and also
contributes to a base level toyour fitness
Dan Kerrigan (21:53):
into doing what you like is a key component.
That's that's probably the otherpart of it, don't commit to
something that you can't, youcan't meet timewise. But also,
if you're the type of personthat likes a variety and your
exercise regimen, you know, thatkind of thing, then then you do
what you like, and you find theways to utilize those exercises
(22:15):
and movements to improveyourself. They mean the variety,
most people like variety, I'mactually kind of a creature of
habit. So there's certain thingsthat I just I like to do, and I
can just do them on a regularrotation. And I don't need to
have all that different variety.
But that's, that's just me, itdoesn't matter. You know, what
matters is how you like to doit. And are you doing the
different things to keepyourself interested, the book
(22:37):
has pages and pages of exercisesand movements that that you can
interchange and your workoutregimen just got, you know, 345
and six day a week workoutsample regimens. There's all
kinds of options there just toget you thinking. And then then
realize too, that for everyexercise your movement, there
(22:59):
are progressions and regressionsto those as well. So depending
on your level of fitness, youeither we're going to take a
step back and go a littleeasier, or you can do some
things to challenge yourself, ifyou're looking for more of a
challenge as you become morefit. So there's layers, right?
Yeah.
Joe Cadwell (23:20):
And before we move on to the next pillar, we had
talked about, you know,strengthening our bodies,
strengthening our cardiovascularsystem, but the one of the parts
of the Big Eight, flexibility,how important is flexibility and
why?
Dan Kerrigan (23:31):
Well, probably one of the most underrated and most
important aspects of ourfitness, right for a number of
reasons. I mean, I and I thinkany of your employers would
argue that, you know, the morethat people are injured and out
of work and hurt, that the moreit costs them in terms of
overtime shift replacements,insurance premiums, all of those
(23:53):
things, the cost of injuries istremendous. And, and flexibility
is one of the easiest ways toreduce that risk, right. In the
fire service. You know, almostyou know, I would say 44% I
believe was the last figure wehad 44% of us in the fire
service at some point in ourcareer will will suffer some
(24:14):
kind of significantmusculoskeletal injury right,
the flexibility aspect is keyfor us specifically, I mean, we
work in restrictive gear and wehave to contort our bodies into
different patterns and movementsand just unnatural places where
we have to work and balanceourselves and things like that.
(24:36):
All of that lends itself toincreased flexibility as as a
you know a bonus and I'm surethat you would probably agree in
the construction industry.
You're probably not always juststanding there on a flat
surface. We're working right infront of you with evenly
distributed weight right
Joe Cadwell (24:53):
for shot. And I've seen plenty of people go through
the the pretense of a morningstretch and flex most guys
companies nowadays in thebuilding trades will have their
have their employees do amorning stretch and flex. And
it's a lot of people just, Idon't wanna say going through
the motions of going through themotions. But that's really what
it is. And they're not gettingthe full benefit of that time to
(25:13):
warm their bodies up. And likeyou say, if you, if you rely on
your body to get the work done,if your body is a tool that
provides you the ability toprovide for yourself and your
family, you should treat thattool with respect. And by
getting warmed up in themorning. It sounds like a
logical thing to do.
Dan Kerrigan (25:30):
Absolutely, it's a great benefit, we're trying very
hard to eliminate the stigmaassociated with yoga. And all
that I mean, we don't certainlyspeak of, it's not about the
spirituality and all that stuff.
It's about the fact that basicfunctional yoga, at least like a
once a week, maybe 20 minutessession will do wonders for not
only your flexibility, but alsoyour must also your muscular
(25:53):
endurance as well. And you cando that in the comfort of your
own home, you can just click onYouTube, in a private setting,
follow along with somebody onYouTube and do some basic
movement patterns that are thatwill benefit you greatly.
Joe Cadwell (26:09):
So now we've we learned about stressing our
muscles getting flexible,getting strong. The important
part of fitness that a lot ofpeople don't quite comprehend,
is that recovery period and theimportance of recovery and rest
in overall fitness. And what canyou tell us about that down?
Dan Kerrigan (26:26):
Well, there's two, two main components of Russian
recovery. And that would be theactive side and the passive
side, right. So one aspect is tomake sure that we're when we are
working out training in the gymor doing what we're doing that
we're giving our bodies time torecover from the essentially the
damage that we're doing to ourbodies to our muscles when we do
(26:49):
workout, right. So for example,some active rest would mean
allowing, if I did an upper bodypush and pull workout on Monday
that I wouldn't want to reallyfocus on those major muscle
groups again, until probablyThursday, right, so we want to
give like 48 hours of rest tothe major muscle groups that
(27:09):
we've that we've worked out. Sothat's an example of that. But
we also need to consider thatour bodies in general have to
have time to recover, and thatwe shouldn't be in the gym seven
days a week, and that it isimportant to have rest days as
well. And just to not be doingthe strenuous workouts that you
(27:30):
know, that we're doing in thegym. And there's nothing wrong
with doing some, you know, goingfor a brisk walk on a rest day
or doing some basic flexibilitystuff just to stay limber or
whatever like that. But we alsohave to cover bodies time to
recover, allow our muscles torepair and recover. The other
side of it is the passive side.
And that's just plain old middlefashion sleep. Sleep deprivation
in the fire service is terror isa terrible problem. As you might
(27:53):
imagine, it's pretty hard topredict an emergency. So when
you're working that kind of ashift, right? So we really tried
to focus on limitingdistractions and stimulus,
especially when you're off. Sowhen you're at home, when you're
not at work, that you have to doeverything you can to try to get
yourself at least seven or eighthours of uninterrupted sleep at
(28:15):
night, just and that will dowonders for you both mentally
and physically. And part of theway we do that is to eliminate
the distractions eliminate thecell phones, the computers, the
the noise, if you will, that weall are attached to right up
until you know we go to bed atnight and kind of put that aside
you know, give an hour 45minutes before we go to bed and
(28:38):
allow our bodies and minds tosettle and and you know other
things like sleeping in a darkroom a cool space, not a hot
space. Those kinds of things areall important in terms of
helping us get good restfulsleep.
Joe Cadwell (28:54):
There's been a lot of studies a lot of scientific
papers written recently on theimportance of that the sleep and
the the REM sleep. And you know,just overall optimal performance
during your waking hours isdependent upon getting some good
restful sleep. Maybe we'll we'llget back into that a little bit
with our lifestyle choices whenwe get to pillar number four.
But yeah, it makes sense. Youknow, you tear your muscles
(29:16):
down, you got to give them timeto build back up. So taking not
every day in the gym orstaggering your workout routine,
so that you're not just hittingthat just working on those those
biceps and that those big packmuscles every day because
they're not going to grow if youdon't allow them time to build
so that makes a lot of sense. Sohydration, I noticed is one of
(29:39):
the four pillars there andhydration Yeah. huge proponent
of drinking water all my life.
I've just love to drink water,but I realized that so many
people I've heard I don't likethe taste of water. I don't like
water. You know, I don't feelthirsty. Why is hydration so
important?
Dan Kerrigan (29:56):
Well, hydration is important for each and every one
of us regardless of Have what wedo for a living, but for
firefighters, public safetyworkers, people like yourself
that do that strenuous whereyou're telling me about the
diving and all that stuff. Like,there are so many impacts on
your physical on your bodysystems, because of what you're
doing that we are less able to,to absorb, if you will, right,
(30:21):
like so. I use that comparison alot like a typical like an
office worker or an accountantor somebody like that, that may
be at some level of dehydration,well, that person because
they're not doing exertingthemselves physically, for the
most part is better able towithstand the effects of that
dehydration. And we are right,we don't ever know as
firefighters, you don't everknow when you're going to have
(30:42):
to go out and do that kind ofwork to begin with. So we have
to proactively hydrate becauseonce you're behind the eight
ball, and you're alreadydehydrated, it doesn't. You
can't just drink a couple bottlebottles of water and make it all
better. Right? So to answer thequestion, more specifically, the
hydration or lack thereofaffects all of your bodies. So
any of those risks that I that Ialready mentioned, like, you
(31:05):
know, the cardiovascular risks,and that those are are
heightened because of our levelof dehydration, right? When you
add heat stress to that, whichI'm pretty sure that
construction industry works outand in the hot home for sure.
You know, right. So when you addheat stress to the dehydration,
it further exacerbates thosenegative effects on your body
(31:27):
systems, your your there's somany things that happen inside
your body, not to get allphysiological with everybody.
But there's so many things thathappen with your your
circulatory system and yourother systems that are operating
your body basically and keepingyou moving. When you're under
exertion. If you don't properlyhydrate, you're asking your body
(31:49):
to perform at its highest levelwhen it can't, right like when
when it needs everything to beclicking. All cylinders be
clicking, you know flawlessly orseamlessly. You're putting
yourself at a greater risk. Soit's going to increase your time
to exhaustion is going toincrease your your risk of
suffering some other kind ofmedical issue and it's all tied
(32:10):
together really not to mentionit the cancer fighting effects
of it to which a lot of peopledon't realize that at the at the
cellular level. There's apurging effect that hydration
happens in your body that purgesthe toxins and stuff like that,
that you absorb out of yourbody. So it's there's so many
benefits to it. Yeah,
Joe Cadwell (32:31):
I started about a year ago, kickstarting my
morning, every morning when Iwake up to 16 ounce glasses of
filtered water right off beforeI do anything else. Those Those
go and you can do Yeah, and Iheard it kind of back flushes
your system. If you wereconsidering it like a pool
filtration system, you'dactually back flushing the
system getting things moved,moved along. Water. Awesome.
(32:52):
What's your thoughts down on themonsters, the rock stars, the
five hour energies, the theGatorade and those types of
things in hydration? They'reubiquitous in the construction
and the building trades?
Everyone's walking around with arock star a monster in hand? Is
that a form of hydration thatyou feel is a helpful choice?
Dan Kerrigan (33:11):
Well, can you tell me what's in a Can a monster?
Joe Cadwell (33:15):
A lot of stuff? A lot of it's difficult to
pronounce?
Dan Kerrigan (33:18):
Yeah, so. So I'm not here to bash any anything or
anybody. But in terms ofproperly hydrating yourself,
it's all about water. and to alesser extent, but you did
mention like Gatorade, forexample. And electrolyte
replacement, right? So your bodydoes need that energy
(33:40):
replacement from time to timewhen you exert yourself. I've
had doctors tell me that forevery, say, for every bottle of
Gatorade that you drink, though,that you should drink two to
three bottles of water to offsetsome of that effect. Right? So
too much of anything is no goodfor you. Right? But in terms of
the energy drinks and all that II can't speak to them. I don't I
(34:00):
don't know that there's anyhealth benefit to them. There's
nothing wrong with a moderatelevel of caffeine. We don't
discourage people to drink a,you know, a cup of coffee or
have a certain, you know, levelof caffeine on a daily basis as
long as you're not putting, youknow, 17 teaspoons of sugar in
(34:22):
it. But but from those, there'sother things you mentioned. If
it's a supplement, if it'sanything like that, that's not
regulated, then you really theycan claim whatever they want to
claim because they're notregulated, right. So, you know,
if he there's more than four orfive ingredients on anything
that you're putting in yourbody, you're probably moving
into a direction where there'sbeen some processing some adding
(34:46):
some supplementing of that tookfor whatever reason to make it
taste better to whatever it is.
Joe Cadwell (34:53):
Sure, and for legality purposes, I definitely
don't want us to be bashing onthe monsters
Dan Kerrigan (35:00):
I'm going to just say, say in general that I don't
know any enough about any ofthose those types of drinks to
know one way or the other, whatif any health benefit they would
have for you. And just leave itat that.
Joe Cadwell (35:14):
That sounds good.
And that'll set us up for that.
For the fourth and final pillar,the nutrition and lifestyle
pillar, and nutrition Food isfuel in my opinion. And a lot of
people agree with that, thatconcept that what we put into
our bodies is basically whatwe're going to be getting out in
return. So nutrition starts, andwe don't want to get into
dietary advice or anything likethat. But a basic concept in my
(35:37):
understanding is to try to eatas much unprocessed foods as
possible stick with whole foodsand and really shop the
peripheries of a supermarket,when you are going to make
dinner for your cruise on at thefirehouse or, you know, you're
on your way to work, you havesomething in your lunchbox that
you didn't pick up at an AMPM ora 711. At 615 in the morning,
(36:00):
and and so what is yourunderstanding of proper
nutrition and how it can helpwith functional fitness on the
job? Sure,
Dan Kerrigan (36:06):
well, part of part of the already mentioned, if you
just picture your body is a highperformance sports car, right?
If you had, if you happen to owna Ferrari, and you put diesel
fuel in that Ferrari, what'sgoing to happen to it right?
It's not going to perform at thelevel you would expect it to
perform at, right. So our bodiesare our vehicles, right? That's
what they are. So what we putin, that's, that's what's going
(36:30):
to keep us going and what'sgoing to keep us healthy, right.
So it's all about, like yousaid, Food is fuel. So it's the
right foods in the right amountsfrom the right sources, there's
no diet involved. We need all ofit, we need carbs, we need
protein, we need fiber, we needfats, right? It's just about
getting them from the rightsources, so that we're getting
(36:53):
the most benefit from them. Andcertainly, we want to avoid the
process stuff, anything that'sin a box or a bag or anything
like that, is good to kind ofkeep to a minimum right. And I'm
not suggesting that anybodydeprive themselves of anything
good in their life, or, youknow, something that they enjoy,
but it's about moderation isreally what it is, you
(37:15):
mentioned, the supermarkets. Andreally, really why we say that
is because if you really thinkabout the layout of a typical
supermarket, where you're goingto find most of your healthier
foods is going to be out outthere on the perimeter of the
supermarket, they put all thatother stuff right in the middle
right in front of you, right,the boxes, the bags, the chips,
all that kind of stuff, they putit on the end caps, it's right
(37:36):
there in your face, to try toget you to buy it because it's
convenient. So So yeah, I mean,you have to take the approach
that and we talk a lot about inour classes about, you know,
different ways of losing weightand things like that, if that's
what you need to do. Just we'renot nutritionist, we would just
suggest that, you know, whetherit's 21 Day fixes, or this or
(37:59):
that, whatever they are allthose things that you hear about
out there, yet, they're shortterm, they are short term,
Texas, not many people cansustain those kinds of
approaches to nutrition for thelong term. So the best way to
approach it is just if you'reputting the right foods in the
right amounts in your body,that's going to give you the
(38:20):
best bang for your buck, if youwill,
Joe Cadwell (38:22):
and listening to your body and making you know
how you feel after you havecertain meals, obviously, and
just really conceptualizing thenutrition that you take in as a
lifestyle choice. Again, not adiet not a fad, or it's not a
diet. Yeah, you know, I'minvesting long term and my
health and well being as we saidearlier, you know, as you
progress through the, throughyour career, you'll begin to
(38:45):
realize that the you don't tendto recover rebound as quickly
when you get into your 40s and50s as you did when you're 20 or
30. So you could get away with alot of things in an earlier age.
But if you're truly looking at along term investment in a career
as a firefighter, as aprofessional craftsperson, you
have to dig in, treat your bodywith respect and treat it like a
tool that is going to providefor you for the long run. We
(39:09):
could have you back on the show.
I hope someday, Dan to talkabout, you know, some of the
vices alcohol, smoking, showingthose types of things. I think
we'll leave that for anotherconversation. But in a nutshell,
yeah, in a nutshell. You know,some of the adverse consequences
of those vices could be as wetalked about setting you up not
to enjoy a high quality of lifeafter you retire. And hopefully
(39:32):
a lot of people listening noware in their earlier stages of
their career and they'relistening going well, maybe
these decisions, maybe it istime for me to stop smoking.
Really follow through on that.
Knowing that, you know, I'minvesting in myself and my
pension in my family and I wantto see the retirement age. I
don't want to die. Two yearsafter I retire at age, age 50
(39:54):
Something from cancer, so ofcourse not.
Dan Kerrigan (39:57):
Yeah, right. Yeah, it's it all is all tied.
together everything when itcomes to health and wellness,
everything is all connected. Youknow the fitness, the physical
fitness Federation, and youknow, it's connected to your
mental health as well. It'sconnected to reduce cancer risk,
it's all it's all connected sojust generally doing the quote
(40:20):
unquote right thing you know,living that like I said that
lifestyle moderation is gonnapay off. do wonders for you in
the long term,
Joe Cadwell (40:28):
Dan Kerrigan, this has been a fantastic
conversation, where can peoplego to find out more about you
and your book? Sure.
Dan Kerrigan (40:35):
So the easiest way to find out about our book is to
go to firefighter functionalfitness.com. That's our website,
you can read a little bit aboutit, see some sample chapters on
there, read some of theendorsements. Keep in mind that
it's I realized it's calledfirefighter functional fitness.
But I've had so many people tellme, it just applies to
(40:57):
everybody, no matter what justit really, it's helpful to
anybody. So I encourage peopleto go there. We also have a
YouTube channel. If you just goon YouTube and type in search
for firefighter functionalfitness, you'll have free access
to probably close to 400exercises, movements, videos,
all that kind of stuff to helpyou along if you're not sure
(41:19):
about how to do a certainexercise and whatever is
probably in there. And honestly,anybody is welcome to reach out
to Jim or I anytime by justemailing us at firefighter
functional fitness@gmail.com. Wewe answer every single email
message, whatever it is, we wereally truly just strive to want
to help people that seek us outfor advice or help or whatever,
(41:42):
and we don't ignore anybody.
Joe Cadwell (41:45):
I guess this has been Dan Kerrigan, author of
functional firefighter fitness.
Get more information about howyou can take care of your most
valuable asset yourself. Be sureto visit the show notes for this
episode, or visit our website atwww grit nation. podcast.com
That's grit nation podcast.comTill next time, this is Joe
Cadwell reminding you to worksafe, work smart and stay union
(42:06):
strong
If you just picture your bias like a high
(00:02):
performing sports car, right, ifyou happen to own a Ferrari, and
you put diesel fuel in thatFerrari, what's going to happen?
It's not going to perform at thelevel you would expect it to
perform at right? Our bodies orour vehicles, right? That's what
they are. So what we put in,that's what's going to keep us
going and what's going to keepus healthy.
Joe Cadwell (00:20):
Welcome to Grit Nation. I'm Joe Cadwell, the
host of the show, and in thisepisode, I have the pleasure of
speaking with Dan Kerrigan, theauthor of Functional Firefighter
Fitness.
(00:40):
Written for firefighters. Thisbook is packed full of solid
advice to help you maximize youroutput on the job. No matter
what you trade, itwill open our conversation by
discussing what it means to befit for duty. As we investigate
the similarities constructionindustry professionals share
with other crap that rely notonly on their cognitive
abilities to get the job donetheir physicality to
(01:02):
next Dan will explain howphysical fitness, rest and
recovery hydration and nutritionmake up the four pillars of his
program, and why it's soimportant to master each one to
achieve optimal health and peakperformance. Later, we unpack
the big eight and understand whyspending hours in the gym isn't
necessary to achieve themuscular endurance, cardio
(01:22):
conditioning and flexibilitythat keep your body healthy and
strong. And well underconversation by giving you the
resources needed to make properlifestyle decisions now that
will allow you to maximizeoutput, minimize injuries and
set you up for success into yourlater years. After this episode,
(01:43):
be sure to visit the show noteswhere you can find more
information to help you divedeeper into the subject. And now
on to the show.
Dan Kerrigan, welcome to GritNation.
Dan Kerrigan (02:03):
Thanks, man.
Appreciate you having me.
Joe Cadwell (02:05):
Yeah, thank you so much, Dan, for taking your time
to be on the show today to talkto my listeners about fitness,
and the importance of havingfitness in order to do the job.
Dan, I understand you wrote abook a few years ago called
firefighter functional fitness.
What got you interested inwriting that book?
Dan Kerrigan (02:22):
Well, it's a long story, but I'll try to kind of
condense it down into a Reader'sDigest version. Several years
ago, I got deeply involved on anumber of levels with
firefighter health and wellness,just because I was doing some
research at the time at theNational Fire Academy for a
project I was working on,concurrently. A department that
(02:46):
I was with, I kind of identifieda problem there within the
department in that area. So Iwanted to help I wanted to try
to make improvements there basedon what we learned. And then
thirdly, quite honestly, for mewas just a realization that as I
got older, and I was performingout on the fire ground, my my
(03:09):
recovery time, the stamina andall those things that you know,
your your 40 something year oldbody can't keep up with your 20
something year old brainanymore. And I came to the
realization that I was I waspretty much not invincible, like
we all think we are, we wereyounger. So there were several
things that got got mepersonally involved with it. At
(03:30):
the same time, I had met JimMoss, my partner and co author,
we were both out, they're kindof putting those messages out to
the fire service about this sortof thing and trying to encourage
people to take better care ofthemselves. I reached out to him
one day suggests that we mightwrite an article or something
(03:51):
like that on functional fitness,and which we ended up doing and
it got to be incredibly popular.
Fire Service circles, if youwill, it really, really went off
the charts in terms of itsreadership and all that and it
kind of got us got us moreinvolved in that. So there's
really not anything out there inthe fire service. That's, that's
(04:13):
there to help people to help tohelp the individual firefighter
do a better job of taking careof themselves and to we had so
much material, like jokinglysaid one day, we could write a
book. And next thing, you know,we wrote a book, and that's
really, that's how it started.
And it kind of was a fluidthing. And we didn't set out to
(04:36):
do that right away, which isprobably a good thing because
you know, we didn't have achance to talk ourselves out of
it or anything like that. Sohere we are today. It's in 50
plus countries around the worldand I think it's hit number one
bestseller in its category onAmazon three separate times
since it's been published andwe're very blessed and humbled
(04:56):
the people Did they find ituseful? And it's helping people
that really makes makes us feelgood every day?
Joe Cadwell (05:06):
Yeah, heck yeah.
It's in again, when I wasresearching occupational fitness
for the show, I couldn't findanything that dealt with
construction. So a lot of peopleright now are listening to the
show going, Well, why are youtalking with a firefighter
about, you know, functionalfitness or firefighting, but
there's so many directcorrelations between the
physicality that is needed towork in your occupation, and the
majority of my listeners workingin the building trades. And
(05:29):
we'll get into some of thosecrossovers here in a bit. But
the difficulty was findingsomething that was practical,
and not just based on building,you know, muscle mass and
looking looking good and rippedcoming out of the gym. But
actually having muscleendurance, having good
cardiovascular fitness, havingflexibility, and basically
conditioning yourself to be ableto do the work that is called
(05:51):
for, and not just in the shortterm, but in the long term,
making sure that you stayphysically fit for the duration
of your career as a professionalCarpenter, or iron worker, or
electrician or plumber, orlabor, you know, and that is the
heart and soul of why I've askedyou on the show, and I'm so
happy that you, you have takenyour time. So I've got to ask
(06:11):
the question, Dan, why isn't Iwork hard? I'm going to hear a
lot of people saying right nowlistening, I work hard, why
isn't my hard work enough tokeep me physically fit? Why do I
need to push a little bit beyondthat and consider conditioning
myself.
Dan Kerrigan (06:27):
So we need to make sure that we are taking care of
our bodies so that our bodiescan perform at their best when
we're asking them to do themost. And I want to make it
clear, and I'm sure we'll talkabout the pillars, but we are
not two people that just talkabout going to the gym working
out, right? It's a very, it's asmall part of a bigger picture.
(06:48):
It's a comprehensive approach,right? So there's a lot more to
it. It's what we eat, it's howwe live our life, it's arrests
or recovery or sleep habits, howwell we hydrate ourselves, all
of those things come into play.
And they can easily be easily beapplied to pretty much life in
general, right. And certainlywhat you do what I do, maybe
(07:08):
there's a little bit more of animpact, because it's a physical
job. And then the other part ofit is just the longevity. And
you mentioned that right? We'renot just trying to help
firefighters become higherperformers, when they're on the
job. We're not, we're not justtrying to reduce the risk of
injury, which is something thatI think we can agree on is is
(07:30):
really important in the tradesas well as as firefighting and
public safety. And there's a bigpart of it there. We're trying
to, we're trying to get youthrough a career, where you
enjoy it. And then when youretire, that you can also enjoy
your retirement. And in the fireservice. We know many, many
people that that have a 2025 30year career, and then within a
(07:54):
couple years of retirement, theypass away for one reason or
another and who wants to dothat, right? Who don't you want
to like, you know, get all thatall that money you put into your
pension benefit, right? Sure,right. I mean, you earned it,
you deserve it. And the only wayyou're going to ensure a really,
you know, help yourself toachieve that longevity is if you
(08:15):
take care of yourself now, youknow, I mean, we can't predict
everything, certainly. But Ithink that logic would tell you
that that those of us that dotake care of ourselves
physically, and and otherwiseare going to have a better
opportunity to enjoy a longerretirement as well. That's and
it sounded to me like you and Iare kind of in the same general
(08:38):
age range. So you know, hey,that, that that's becoming more
and more important to me, you'reevery year that goes by?
Joe Cadwell (08:47):
Yeah, for sure.
Extending that quality of life.
And again, it all starts withbuilding a foundation of
awareness of investing inyourself in a physical fitness
standpoint, and also adoptinghealthy lifestyles. And so if we
built a solid foundation, now wetalk about the four pillars,
Dan, and that that you know,getting into your book, you have
(09:08):
four pillars there the first onefirst pillar is the physical
fitness side of it. The secondone is the recovery and rest.
Hydration is your third pillar,we'll get into that one that's
interesting to me, and then thenutrition and lifestyle choices.
So let's go back to the to thefirst pillar of physical
fitness. And when we think aboutfitness, again, it's not just
about having that ripped BOD,but actually having muscles that
(09:32):
can do the work required andhaving a cardio vascular
endurance to help you do thework. So how do you how do you
gain that?
Dan Kerrigan (09:39):
First, I just want to reiterate your point and make
it known to everybody they maylisten Is that what we're is
what we're not about, right whatwhat Jim and I are not about is
the Beachbody, the shredded absand those sorts of physique type
goals that that individuals mayhave. No, we're not saying that
you shouldn't have thosepersonal goals, but our approach
(10:01):
is strictly performance based,it's being the best you can be
in every area of physicalperformance from talking about
physical fitness. So, so really,it's all about function, right?
It's about what do you do? Andwhat can make you better at what
you do in your own life, right.
So if you think about a gymnast,or a football player, or a
(10:24):
hockey player or a soccerplayer, they all train
physically for the occupation,essentially, that's what it is
for, not for the occupation thatthey're involved in. And they do
certain things, certain ways tobe better at what they do.
Right? Well, why shouldn't we?
(10:44):
Right, that was our point, rightfrom the beginning is that we
ought to be training to bebetter firefighters. And in
order to do that we need toincorporate or replicate those
movements and things that we doout there on the fire ground.
And that's really what bate whatthe basis of functional fitness
is, if you if you can answerthree questions, is it safe? Is
(11:07):
it effective? And is itfunctional? You can answer yes
to those three questions, thenyou're probably on the right
track already. Right. But whatour goal is to get you in a
position where you'rereplicating the kinds of
movements and patterns that youdo on the fire ground, and do
that in the gym. And that'sreally, that's really what it
is.
Joe Cadwell (11:26):
And not to get in specific exercises per se. But
in under the pillar of physicalfitness, you talk about the
pushing, exercises, the pullingexercises, the lifting
exercises, the carryingexercises, and the dragging type
exercises in this area, I assumeare what a lot of firefighters
do and it sounds like what a lotof our carpenters and building
(11:49):
trades professionals are alsorequired to do out in the field.
So how would you how would yougain those type of strength? Say
you only have two days a weekyou can you can devote towards
your physicality? How would yougain those?
Dan Kerrigan (12:02):
You mentioned, basically what you mentioned is
the five functional strengthtraining components of the Big
Eight, right? Prior to that wewould talk about core strengths,
cardiovascular capacity andflexibility as being the sort of
foundational components, right?
I think you would agree with methat in the trades, your core,
you need to have a strong core,right? We're not just talking
(12:23):
about shredded abs, we'retalking about front sides and
back of your torso in your inyour back. Right. So that's,
that's the basis for all of itfrom the strength standpoint.
How do we we associate pushpull, lift, carry and drag?
Because as you said, that's whatwe do out on the fire ground. So
how does one accomplish thatmission on you set a two day a
(12:44):
week type of a schedule? Well,if I were trying to design a
program for you that you wereonly able to work out two days a
week, I probably would focus onwhat we call HIIT training, high
intensity interval training,because what you can do then is
you can combine thecardiovascular capacity training
(13:04):
that we need for endurance withwhat what's really, really
important to us muscularendurance training. So you can
do physical strength exercisesin a high intensity format that
kind of kills two birds with onestone, if you will, right. So we
incorporate things like pushups, pull ups, squats, mountain
(13:25):
climbers, any anything likethat, that's going to engage in
either, you know, pushingmovements, upper body strength
movements, lower body pushes,and pulling movements, engaging
your core dragging, polling,doing things like that, that
benefit us out there in the realworld. And that's how I would do
(13:46):
it. If you only gave me two daysa week, I probably would assign
to pretty based on your overallconditioning, I probably would
give you two pretty stout, highintensity interval training
workouts, if you would, thatwe're going to incorporate all
that all that stuff
Joe Cadwell (14:03):
for you. And that's a good point that you just
brought up there your base levelof conditioning, obviously
getting in any sort of physicalfitness program, you want to
make sure that you start offsensibly that you don't create
injury, but also, you know,understanding that someone who
is 20 something years old versussomeone who's 40 something years
old, that their level of highintensity is going to vary
(14:24):
greatly. I imagine so you haveto sort of cater it to your own
where you are in life.
Dan Kerrigan (14:29):
Well, so yeah, and we have metrics for that,
actually. I mean, part of it isknowing your own level of
fitness and conditioning and youlike in our book, for example,
we have a pretty basic selfassessment that you can do. You
can just go through a series ofmovements and exercises and kind
of rate yourself where youfollowing those categories to
(14:49):
get yourself a baseline if youwill, to start from from a more
clinical standpoint, a 40 yearold person, their theoretical
maximum heart rate is going tobe less than a 22 year old
person. And you can easilycalculate that, and you'll know
it for a year over a year, youknow, you take 220 minus your
(15:10):
age, and that's your, that'syour theoretical maximum heart
rate. So we know what that is.
And then we take a percentage ofthat based on our fitness goals
for the session that we areengaging in. So for doing high
intensity interval training, ourtarget heart rate is 85% of our
theoretical maximum heart rate.
(15:31):
If we're doing endurance basedtraining, you know, like,
longer, you know, swimming orrunning on the treadmill at a
jog, you know, those kinds ofmore endurance based training
sessions, then you're at 70%.
So, so some of it is knowingyour own level of conditioning,
which you know, we can help youwith. And then the other part of
it is just now where do I needto be, so that I know that I'm
(15:54):
actually benefiting from all thework that I'm doing. And that's
where the theoretical maximumheart rate comes in.
Joe Cadwell (16:01):
And it sounds like earlier, you were talking about
a lot of bodyweight typeexercises, and probably the only
piece of equipment you wouldneed is a heart rate monitor of
some sort to be able to monitorthose thresholds,
Dan Kerrigan (16:13):
I could give you a way to tell if you're a bear
without even anywhere horribleto be honest with there's
something called a TOC test. Therule of thumb is that if you are
engaged in that kind ofactivity, and you can speak a
full sentence, but it's it'sunder Labor, it's hard to get it
at Imagine if you're jogging ona treadmill, and somebody comes
(16:33):
up and wants to start talking toyou. Right? And you're you're
trying to answer their question,and you're kind of getting a
sentence out, but you're like,not able to do it, you're in
that 70% range, right? If youwant to hit the high intensity
range, you shouldn't be able tospeak more than one or two words
at a time without having to takea breath. It's that simple. Just
Joe Cadwell (16:54):
Just get out, leave me alone.
Dan Kerrigan (16:57):
Yeah, get out, that's kind of your busy, right?
You know that that's kind of aan organic type of a test, just
if you don't have a wearable,you don't have anything like
that, you can go by that aswell,
Joe Cadwell (17:10):
that makes a lot of sense. And that hit training, it
sounds like you know, hit kindof works in three different
realms, the immediate are sortof the explosive training, and
then that would quickly go intoanaerobic training. And then
more relaxed would be in the,the aerobic spectrum, or part of
the spectrum. Yeah, you
Dan Kerrigan (17:27):
you don't, you've done some research. Um, so yeah,
so and they those three stageson the, on the fitness
continuum, if you will, areimportant to us as as
firefighters, you know,especially because we need to be
good at all those levels. But ifsomebody were asked me and I get
asked this a lot, where wherewould your main focus be? For
(17:50):
us, our main focus is in thatanaerobic state and that middle
state, right, because that'swhere we're, that's where our
limitations are going to reartheir ugly heads, if you will,
right. You know, we need to beexplosive and powerful for very
short bursts. But most of ourmost of our continuous work
happens in that anaerobic statewhere we're, we're continuing to
(18:13):
push at a moderate to highlevel, but we still need that
staying power as well. So that'swhere you're gonna find where
you start cramping up or losingyour grip strength. And, you
know, those kinds of feelingsthat I'm sure that we've all
had, that you're you're near andnear the limits of your
endurance. That's what we'retrying to concentrate most
Joe Cadwell (18:30):
great. And earlier, I said two days a week, ideally,
Dan, what would you say would bethe best, you know, program for
someone wanting to maintainfitness outside of work, and not
necessarily turning into a gymrack, but just wanting to be
active? What would you say? Howmany days a week would would be
ideal?
Dan Kerrigan (18:46):
I you know, it's it's a good question. I'm gonna
skate around that a little bitand say that, that it's an
individual thing, one of themost important things that, that
you have to do as a person isyou have to be realistic in your
commitment to your fitness. Andso if you tell yourself, I'm
going to work out six days aweek, and you know, damn well
(19:09):
that you can't, you can't dothat, given your life and your
family and all the obligationsthat you have, then you're
probably going to fail. Right?
So I would rather say, I wouldrather you tell me that you're
going to commit to three days aweek or four days a week and
actually stick to it. So I wouldsay at a bare minimum, three or
four days a week is reallywhat's required and really what
(19:31):
once we decide how many days aweek you can commit to it. Then
we can structure a programaround that so that you're still
getting the most bang for yourbuck. Jim and I are fitness
minimalist. We do not want orpromote or expect anybody to and
you know, I say you know, 28hours a day, 19 days a week in
(19:52):
the gym, right? That's notreally a lot of fun. You want to
live your life to let's go We'remore targeted on being
efficient. Getting in theregetting done what you need to
get done for that session andthen going about on about your
day, half hour, 40 minutes Ican, I can make you feel very
much like you had one heck of aworkout and 20 to 30 minutes I
(20:15):
can, I can put you through a 20minute hit session and you'll
theoretically be crawling out ofgym, you know, I mean, not that
we want you to be doing that.
But you don't need to be inthere for an hour, hour and a
half every day.
Joe Cadwell (20:30):
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the show. And you had mentionedfun and I think fun is a big
component, you have to findexercise that you actually
enjoy, whether it's you know,shooting hoops, playing
pickleball, hitting the golfcourse going out for walks all
that is sort of builds into ahealthy lifestyle and also
contributes to a base level toyour fitness
Dan Kerrigan (21:53):
into doing what you like is a key component.
That's that's probably the otherpart of it, don't commit to
something that you can't, youcan't meet timewise. But also,
if you're the type of personthat likes a variety and your
exercise regimen, you know, thatkind of thing, then then you do
what you like, and you find theways to utilize those exercises
(22:15):
and movements to improveyourself. They mean the variety,
most people like variety, I'mactually kind of a creature of
habit. So there's certain thingsthat I just I like to do, and I
can just do them on a regularrotation. And I don't need to
have all that different variety.
But that's, that's just me, itdoesn't matter. You know, what
matters is how you like to doit. And are you doing the
different things to keepyourself interested, the book
(22:37):
has pages and pages of exercisesand movements that that you can
interchange and your workoutregimen just got, you know, 345
and six day a week workoutsample regimens. There's all
kinds of options there just toget you thinking. And then then
realize too, that for everyexercise your movement, there
(22:59):
are progressions and regressionsto those as well. So depending
on your level of fitness, youeither we're going to take a
step back and go a littleeasier, or you can do some
things to challenge yourself, ifyou're looking for more of a
challenge as you become morefit. So there's layers, right?
Yeah.
Joe Cadwell (23:20):
And before we move on to the next pillar, we had
talked about, you know,strengthening our bodies,
strengthening our cardiovascularsystem, but the one of the parts
of the Big Eight, flexibility,how important is flexibility and
why?
Dan Kerrigan (23:31):
Well, probably one of the most underrated and most
important aspects of ourfitness, right for a number of
reasons. I mean, I and I thinkany of your employers would
argue that, you know, the morethat people are injured and out
of work and hurt, that the moreit costs them in terms of
overtime shift replacements,insurance premiums, all of those
(23:53):
things, the cost of injuries istremendous. And, and flexibility
is one of the easiest ways toreduce that risk, right. In the
fire service. You know, almostyou know, I would say 44% I
believe was the last figure wehad 44% of us in the fire
service at some point in ourcareer will will suffer some
(24:14):
kind of significantmusculoskeletal injury right,
the flexibility aspect is keyfor us specifically, I mean, we
work in restrictive gear and wehave to contort our bodies into
different patterns and movementsand just unnatural places where
we have to work and balanceourselves and things like that.
(24:36):
All of that lends itself toincreased flexibility as as a
you know a bonus and I'm surethat you would probably agree in
the construction industry.
You're probably not always juststanding there on a flat
surface. We're working right infront of you with evenly
distributed weight right
Joe Cadwell (24:53):
for shot. And I've seen plenty of people go through
the the pretense of a morningstretch and flex most guys
companies nowadays in thebuilding trades will have their
have their employees do amorning stretch and flex. And
it's a lot of people just, Idon't wanna say going through
the motions of going through themotions. But that's really what
it is. And they're not gettingthe full benefit of that time to
(25:13):
warm their bodies up. And likeyou say, if you, if you rely on
your body to get the work done,if your body is a tool that
provides you the ability toprovide for yourself and your
family, you should treat thattool with respect. And by
getting warmed up in themorning. It sounds like a
logical thing to do.
Dan Kerrigan (25:30):
Absolutely, it's a great benefit, we're trying very
hard to eliminate the stigmaassociated with yoga. And all
that I mean, we don't certainlyspeak of, it's not about the
spirituality and all that stuff.
It's about the fact that basicfunctional yoga, at least like a
once a week, maybe 20 minutessession will do wonders for not
only your flexibility, but alsoyour must also your muscular
(25:53):
endurance as well. And you cando that in the comfort of your
own home, you can just click onYouTube, in a private setting,
follow along with somebody onYouTube and do some basic
movement patterns that are thatwill benefit you greatly.
Joe Cadwell (26:09):
So now we've we learned about stressing our
muscles getting flexible,getting strong. The important
part of fitness that a lot ofpeople don't quite comprehend,
is that recovery period and theimportance of recovery and rest
in overall fitness. And what canyou tell us about that down?
Dan Kerrigan (26:26):
Well, there's two, two main components of Russian
recovery. And that would be theactive side and the passive
side, right. So one aspect is tomake sure that we're when we are
working out training in the gymor doing what we're doing that
we're giving our bodies time torecover from the essentially the
damage that we're doing to ourbodies to our muscles when we do
(26:49):
workout, right. So for example,some active rest would mean
allowing, if I did an upper bodypush and pull workout on Monday
that I wouldn't want to reallyfocus on those major muscle
groups again, until probablyThursday, right, so we want to
give like 48 hours of rest tothe major muscle groups that
(27:09):
we've that we've worked out. Sothat's an example of that. But
we also need to consider thatour bodies in general have to
have time to recover, and thatwe shouldn't be in the gym seven
days a week, and that it isimportant to have rest days as
well. And just to not be doingthe strenuous workouts that you
(27:30):
know, that we're doing in thegym. And there's nothing wrong
with doing some, you know, goingfor a brisk walk on a rest day
or doing some basic flexibilitystuff just to stay limber or
whatever like that. But we alsohave to cover bodies time to
recover, allow our muscles torepair and recover. The other
side of it is the passive side.
And that's just plain old middlefashion sleep. Sleep deprivation
in the fire service is terror isa terrible problem. As you might
(27:53):
imagine, it's pretty hard topredict an emergency. So when
you're working that kind of ashift, right? So we really tried
to focus on limitingdistractions and stimulus,
especially when you're off. Sowhen you're at home, when you're
not at work, that you have to doeverything you can to try to get
yourself at least seven or eighthours of uninterrupted sleep at
(28:15):
night, just and that will dowonders for you both mentally
and physically. And part of theway we do that is to eliminate
the distractions eliminate thecell phones, the computers, the
the noise, if you will, that weall are attached to right up
until you know we go to bed atnight and kind of put that aside
you know, give an hour 45minutes before we go to bed and
(28:38):
allow our bodies and minds tosettle and and you know other
things like sleeping in a darkroom a cool space, not a hot
space. Those kinds of things areall important in terms of
helping us get good restfulsleep.
Joe Cadwell (28:54):
There's been a lot of studies a lot of scientific
papers written recently on theimportance of that the sleep and
the the REM sleep. And you know,just overall optimal performance
during your waking hours isdependent upon getting some good
restful sleep. Maybe we'll we'llget back into that a little bit
with our lifestyle choices whenwe get to pillar number four.
But yeah, it makes sense. Youknow, you tear your muscles
(29:16):
down, you got to give them timeto build back up. So taking not
every day in the gym orstaggering your workout routine,
so that you're not just hittingthat just working on those those
biceps and that those big packmuscles every day because
they're not going to grow if youdon't allow them time to build
so that makes a lot of sense. Sohydration, I noticed is one of
(29:39):
the four pillars there andhydration Yeah. huge proponent
of drinking water all my life.
I've just love to drink water,but I realized that so many
people I've heard I don't likethe taste of water. I don't like
water. You know, I don't feelthirsty. Why is hydration so
important?
Dan Kerrigan (29:56):
Well, hydration is important for each and every one
of us regardless of Have what wedo for a living, but for
firefighters, public safetyworkers, people like yourself
that do that strenuous whereyou're telling me about the
diving and all that stuff. Like,there are so many impacts on
your physical on your bodysystems, because of what you're
doing that we are less able to,to absorb, if you will, right,
(30:21):
like so. I use that comparison alot like a typical like an
office worker or an accountantor somebody like that, that may
be at some level of dehydration,well, that person because
they're not doing exertingthemselves physically, for the
most part is better able towithstand the effects of that
dehydration. And we are right,we don't ever know as
firefighters, you don't everknow when you're going to have
(30:42):
to go out and do that kind ofwork to begin with. So we have
to proactively hydrate becauseonce you're behind the eight
ball, and you're alreadydehydrated, it doesn't. You
can't just drink a couple bottlebottles of water and make it all
better. Right? So to answer thequestion, more specifically, the
hydration or lack thereofaffects all of your bodies. So
any of those risks that I that Ialready mentioned, like, you
(31:05):
know, the cardiovascular risks,and that those are are
heightened because of our levelof dehydration, right? When you
add heat stress to that, whichI'm pretty sure that
construction industry works outand in the hot home for sure.
You know, right. So when you addheat stress to the dehydration,
it further exacerbates thosenegative effects on your body
(31:27):
systems, your your there's somany things that happen inside
your body, not to get allphysiological with everybody.
But there's so many things thathappen with your your
circulatory system and yourother systems that are operating
your body basically and keepingyou moving. When you're under
exertion. If you don't properlyhydrate, you're asking your body
(31:49):
to perform at its highest levelwhen it can't, right like when
when it needs everything to beclicking. All cylinders be
clicking, you know flawlessly orseamlessly. You're putting
yourself at a greater risk. Soit's going to increase your time
to exhaustion is going toincrease your your risk of
suffering some other kind ofmedical issue and it's all tied
(32:10):
together really not to mentionit the cancer fighting effects
of it to which a lot of peopledon't realize that at the at the
cellular level. There's apurging effect that hydration
happens in your body that purgesthe toxins and stuff like that,
that you absorb out of yourbody. So it's there's so many
benefits to it. Yeah,
Joe Cadwell (32:31):
I started about a year ago, kickstarting my
morning, every morning when Iwake up to 16 ounce glasses of
filtered water right off beforeI do anything else. Those Those
go and you can do Yeah, and Iheard it kind of back flushes
your system. If you wereconsidering it like a pool
filtration system, you'dactually back flushing the
system getting things moved,moved along. Water. Awesome.
(32:52):
What's your thoughts down on themonsters, the rock stars, the
five hour energies, the theGatorade and those types of
things in hydration? They'reubiquitous in the construction
and the building trades?
Everyone's walking around with arock star a monster in hand? Is
that a form of hydration thatyou feel is a helpful choice?
Dan Kerrigan (33:11):
Well, can you tell me what's in a Can a monster?
Joe Cadwell (33:15):
A lot of stuff? A lot of it's difficult to
pronounce?
Dan Kerrigan (33:18):
Yeah, so. So I'm not here to bash any anything or
anybody. But in terms ofproperly hydrating yourself,
it's all about water. and to alesser extent, but you did
mention like Gatorade, forexample. And electrolyte
replacement, right? So your bodydoes need that energy
(33:40):
replacement from time to timewhen you exert yourself. I've
had doctors tell me that forevery, say, for every bottle of
Gatorade that you drink, though,that you should drink two to
three bottles of water to offsetsome of that effect. Right? So
too much of anything is no goodfor you. Right? But in terms of
the energy drinks and all that II can't speak to them. I don't I
(34:00):
don't know that there's anyhealth benefit to them. There's
nothing wrong with a moderatelevel of caffeine. We don't
discourage people to drink a,you know, a cup of coffee or
have a certain, you know, levelof caffeine on a daily basis as
long as you're not putting, youknow, 17 teaspoons of sugar in
(34:22):
it. But but from those, there'sother things you mentioned. If
it's a supplement, if it'sanything like that, that's not
regulated, then you really theycan claim whatever they want to
claim because they're notregulated, right. So, you know,
if he there's more than four orfive ingredients on anything
that you're putting in yourbody, you're probably moving
into a direction where there'sbeen some processing some adding
(34:46):
some supplementing of that tookfor whatever reason to make it
taste better to whatever it is.
Joe Cadwell (34:53):
Sure, and for legality purposes, I definitely
don't want us to be bashing onthe monsters
Dan Kerrigan (35:00):
I'm going to just say, say in general that I don't
know any enough about any ofthose those types of drinks to
know one way or the other, whatif any health benefit they would
have for you. And just leave itat that.
Joe Cadwell (35:14):
That sounds good.
And that'll set us up for that.
For the fourth and final pillar,the nutrition and lifestyle
pillar, and nutrition Food isfuel in my opinion. And a lot of
people agree with that, thatconcept that what we put into
our bodies is basically whatwe're going to be getting out in
return. So nutrition starts, andwe don't want to get into
dietary advice or anything likethat. But a basic concept in my
(35:37):
understanding is to try to eatas much unprocessed foods as
possible stick with whole foodsand and really shop the
peripheries of a supermarket,when you are going to make
dinner for your cruise on at thefirehouse or, you know, you're
on your way to work, you havesomething in your lunchbox that
you didn't pick up at an AMPM ora 711. At 615 in the morning,
(36:00):
and and so what is yourunderstanding of proper
nutrition and how it can helpwith functional fitness on the
job? Sure,
Dan Kerrigan (36:06):
well, part of part of the already mentioned, if you
just picture your body is a highperformance sports car, right?
If you had, if you happen to owna Ferrari, and you put diesel
fuel in that Ferrari, what'sgoing to happen to it right?
It's not going to perform at thelevel you would expect it to
perform at, right. So our bodiesare our vehicles, right? That's
what they are. So what we putin, that's, that's what's going
(36:30):
to keep us going and what'sgoing to keep us healthy, right.
So it's all about, like yousaid, Food is fuel. So it's the
right foods in the right amountsfrom the right sources, there's
no diet involved. We need all ofit, we need carbs, we need
protein, we need fiber, we needfats, right? It's just about
getting them from the rightsources, so that we're getting
(36:53):
the most benefit from them. Andcertainly, we want to avoid the
process stuff, anything that'sin a box or a bag or anything
like that, is good to kind ofkeep to a minimum right. And I'm
not suggesting that anybodydeprive themselves of anything
good in their life, or, youknow, something that they enjoy,
but it's about moderation isreally what it is, you
(37:15):
mentioned, the supermarkets. Andreally, really why we say that
is because if you really thinkabout the layout of a typical
supermarket, where you're goingto find most of your healthier
foods is going to be out outthere on the perimeter of the
supermarket, they put all thatother stuff right in the middle
right in front of you, right,the boxes, the bags, the chips,
all that kind of stuff, they putit on the end caps, it's right
(37:36):
there in your face, to try toget you to buy it because it's
convenient. So So yeah, I mean,you have to take the approach
that and we talk a lot about inour classes about, you know,
different ways of losing weightand things like that, if that's
what you need to do. Just we'renot nutritionist, we would just
suggest that, you know, whetherit's 21 Day fixes, or this or
(37:59):
that, whatever they are allthose things that you hear about
out there, yet, they're shortterm, they are short term,
Texas, not many people cansustain those kinds of
approaches to nutrition for thelong term. So the best way to
approach it is just if you'reputting the right foods in the
right amounts in your body,that's going to give you the
(38:20):
best bang for your buck, if youwill,
Joe Cadwell (38:22):
and listening to your body and making you know
how you feel after you havecertain meals, obviously, and
just really conceptualizing thenutrition that you take in as a
lifestyle choice. Again, not adiet not a fad, or it's not a
diet. Yeah, you know, I'minvesting long term and my
health and well being as we saidearlier, you know, as you
progress through the, throughyour career, you'll begin to
(38:45):
realize that the you don't tendto recover rebound as quickly
when you get into your 40s and50s as you did when you're 20 or
30. So you could get away with alot of things in an earlier age.
But if you're truly looking at along term investment in a career
as a firefighter, as aprofessional craftsperson, you
have to dig in, treat your bodywith respect and treat it like a
tool that is going to providefor you for the long run. We
(39:09):
could have you back on the show.
I hope someday, Dan to talkabout, you know, some of the
vices alcohol, smoking, showingthose types of things. I think
we'll leave that for anotherconversation. But in a nutshell,
yeah, in a nutshell. You know,some of the adverse consequences
of those vices could be as wetalked about setting you up not
to enjoy a high quality of lifeafter you retire. And hopefully
(39:32):
a lot of people listening noware in their earlier stages of
their career and they'relistening going well, maybe
these decisions, maybe it istime for me to stop smoking.
Really follow through on that.
Knowing that, you know, I'minvesting in myself and my
pension in my family and I wantto see the retirement age. I
don't want to die. Two yearsafter I retire at age, age 50
(39:54):
Something from cancer, so ofcourse not.
Dan Kerrigan (39:57):
Yeah, right. Yeah, it's it all is all tied.
together everything when itcomes to health and wellness,
everything is all connected. Youknow the fitness, the physical
fitness Federation, and youknow, it's connected to your
mental health as well. It'sconnected to reduce cancer risk,
it's all it's all connected sojust generally doing the quote
(40:20):
unquote right thing you know,living that like I said that
lifestyle moderation is gonnapay off. do wonders for you in
the long term,
Joe Cadwell (40:28):
Dan Kerrigan, this has been a fantastic
conversation, where can peoplego to find out more about you
and your book? Sure.
Dan Kerrigan (40:35):
So the easiest way to find out about our book is to
go to firefighter functionalfitness.com. That's our website,
you can read a little bit aboutit, see some sample chapters on
there, read some of theendorsements. Keep in mind that
it's I realized it's calledfirefighter functional fitness.
But I've had so many people tellme, it just applies to
(40:57):
everybody, no matter what justit really, it's helpful to
anybody. So I encourage peopleto go there. We also have a
YouTube channel. If you just goon YouTube and type in search
for firefighter functionalfitness, you'll have free access
to probably close to 400exercises, movements, videos,
all that kind of stuff to helpyou along if you're not sure
(41:19):
about how to do a certainexercise and whatever is
probably in there. And honestly,anybody is welcome to reach out
to Jim or I anytime by justemailing us at firefighter
functional fitness@gmail.com. Wewe answer every single email
message, whatever it is, we wereally truly just strive to want
to help people that seek us outfor advice or help or whatever,
(41:42):
and we don't ignore anybody.
Joe Cadwell (41:45):
I guess this has been Dan Kerrigan, author of
functional firefighter fitness.
Get more information about howyou can take care of your most
valuable asset yourself. Be sureto visit the show notes for this
episode, or visit our website atwww grit nation. podcast.com
That's grit nation podcast.comTill next time, this is Joe
Cadwell reminding you to worksafe, work smart and stay union
(42:06):
strong
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.