Devin Oliver: I See Stars, Coping Through Distraction, Healthy Competition, and Then Vs. Now

Episode Transcript
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Austin Seltzer (00:01):
Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast.
I'm your host, austin Siltzer.
Together we'll unveil the keysto success in the music industry
.
Join me as I explore my guest'slife stories and experiences to
uncover practical insights tohelp you align with your goals
more effectively.
Hey Copy Drinkers, welcome tothe Grounds for Success podcast.

(00:24):
I'm Austin Siltzer and I'm amixing and mastering engineer
with over 10 years of experiencein the music business.
Today, my guest is Devin Oliver.
He's the frontman for the bandIC Stars, as well as his solo
project called Shy Beast.
Ic Stars began in 2006 inMichigan and he was a member of

(00:47):
the band IC Stars.
They are one of, if not theestablishing band of, a subgenre
called electronic core Soundslike I don't know if everybody
uses that term, but it's kind oflike a post-hard core rock band

(01:08):
that fuses electronic elements.
They, in my mind, are reallylike the establishing band, so
I'm stoked to talk to him aboutthat.
Ic Stars has honestly been onway more tours than I can count,
so I'll just throw in that theyplayed several warped tours.
Rest in peace for Warped Tour.
We love you so many others buthonestly, you can go and Google.

(01:31):
It's kind of ridiculous.
They played so many shows.
They've released six fullalbums and I really want to
highlight that they dropped tworecent singles Drift and Anomaly
.
Anomaly is on the radio.
It's their first track that'sbeen on the radio, so I'm stoked
for them.
The tracks are awesome.
Go check them out.

(01:51):
Devin produces, plays guitar,plays bass, plays drums, plays
synths.
He literally does it all.
He does everything.
So Shy Beast was a way for himto bring all of his elements
together.
But he also does this for ICStars as well.
I know on the new record he didso much.
His hands were on everything.

(02:12):
He's just a creative force.
We're going to talk aboutDevin's ability to map out his
days, to work on things thatfulfill him.
I really resonated with thisbecause his goal daily is just
to feel great, feel inspired,feel like he's working on
something that's fulfilling himin such a way.

(02:32):
So we'll dive deep on that.
We'll learn about his earlylife, his dad being a musician,
his parents getting a divorceand kind of how that really
pushed him closer with hisfriends, his band, and how his
escape was music.
So that was, in his formativeyears, just something that
pushed him in the direction ofbecoming a musician.

(02:55):
We'll talk about how co-heatingCambria's Claudio Sanchez is
like one of his earlyinspirations, of course, for his
vocals.
You can hear that as well asCraig Owens from Chiodos.
Both of those had a huge impacton his choice of how he
delivers his vocals.
We hear about how the musicianscene in Michigan was one of

(03:19):
comradery but fierce rivalry andhow it kind of pushed bands to
become the best version ofthemselves, pushed them to break
the envelope, and time and timeagain you hear this kind of
story of businesses that haverivals and both of them help
each other rise up and thingslike that.
So we get to hear how thatworks in a band sense.

(03:41):
We also hear the differences inbreaking as a new band now
versus whenever IC stars came onthe scene Obviously hugely
different.
So it was cool to hear aboutthat and also just like the
difficulties of being in a bandfor so long.
You're so close with thesepeople for so long.
Of course you have these likequarrels and people have like

(04:04):
their idea of what they want andit's hard to all come together.
But really ultimately howthey're bond is what has created
a band that has been able tostand the test of time.
I mean they've been around forsince 2006.
So it's a long time.
So I'm stoked for you to hearall of this stuff on this

(04:26):
episode with me and Devin.
All right, let's getcaffeinated.
Hi, you can probably like angleit like this, or does that feel
natural for you?

Devin Oliver (04:35):
You need to show me that you're popping my
podcast, cherry.

So where's?

the mic Right here .
I mean it can go wherever youwant here.

Oh yeah, you sound great out there.

Do it right here.
This feels this sounds good.
Well, if I'm looking at youbecause I want to look you in
the eye, this seems right.
Yes, do you like how you sound?
Yes, so far, so good.
Welcome to my podcast.
I am your host, devin Oliver,and our word of the day Do we

(05:11):
talk about?

the word yet, or I mean, if you want to say it
sure I'm teaching Austin aboutthe word snafu.

He's never heard the word snafu before.
I haven't.
How Well, have you never beenin a snafu?
I think you made that word up.
I didn't actually before.
I wrote it on the board.
I'm not going to lie.
I wanted to make sure I speltit right, so I googled it and
yes, it's very real Snafu.

Snafu.

Yes.

Well Devin.
Oliver, thank you for coming onthe podcast, of course.

Thanks for having me on my first ever podcast.
Yeah, I can't believe that I'mso stoked.
I feel like I mean, you got tothink like even four years ago,
when I last played a show,podcasts were just kind of
starting to come to the surface.
I feel like, like there wasn't.

(06:10):
I just started listening topodcasts a lot over the last
four years, you know.
So there wasn't like a bunch ofpeople asking for me to be on
their podcast when I would tour,or yeah, or just ever in the PR
realm of things, so it was justnever really something that
felt like it existed like itdoes today, you know.

(06:32):
So, yeah, first podcast.

Hell yeah, first podcast.
And I have to say, shout out toyou.
You are a lover of coffee, butyou were like.
I take it with cream.
And then I made you some coffeeand you're like oh shit.

It's got a really natural deliciousness that
doesn't need to be masked bycream.
I feel like some of the coffee.
I mean, I love coffee in itsraw form, but I love the.
It's like peanut butter andjelly.
You know I need the coffee andthe cream.

Yeah.

But this is doing it for me.
I'm liking this black, andyou're a black coffee drinker I
am.
I just don't really drink it inanother way.
I thought only serial killersdrank their coffee black.
I mean, look at my room, thiscould be.
This is a dungeon.
This might not even be apodcast.
You might just be trying tokill me.
Why?

do you think the walls are black?
It's like to mask the blood.
Yes, yes, no.

Actually.

I don't think that works, because you just
blacklight it.

I was about to say no, no, we'd find out real
quick.
Yeah, there would be forensicfiles all over this place.

Yeah, clearly not a serial killer.

I don't even know that, so yeah, well, I know a
lot about you, and you don'thave the qualities of a serial
killer.

I'm glad that I don't match that Dude.
So what does a normal day inyour life look like right now?

Right now it looks very different than it did last
year.
I mean, I feel like my liferight now is, even though
releasing a record is a lot ofwork, it feels like right now
things are a bit like jazz, likeI'm able to kind of take on new

(08:28):
projects, kind of go whereverthe wind blows me, you know.
So obviously you know this, butwhoever's watching doesn't.
I've been building some stufffrom my studio and just kind of
taking on some DIY projects, andI feel like I really like this
kind of calm side of my lifewhere I can wake up and be like

(08:48):
okay, what do I want to do today?
What do I want to accomplish asopposed to?
You know, even a year ago, theidea was finishing the record
and getting everything closer tothe finish line.
So every day, whether it waswhat I wanted to do or if there
was something else I'd rather bedoing, it's like it didn't
really matter.

(09:09):
That's what I had to do, youknow.
So I think just kind ofreassessing right now, like
that's kind of my, that's justmy everyday work right now, I
was just kind of figuring outwhat's next.

What I love so much about that is.
So I just had your reference onright Yazzy for those.
I don't know which order theseare going to be in, but I just
recently personally had Yazzy onand her answer was much the
same as like I am really takinglife slow and I'm letting

(09:45):
whatever come to me come to me.
And now, sitting here afterhaving that conversation, I'm
very curious which of you istruly Taking it slow?
Yeah, and then I'm guessingsomehow, because you guys are in
the same vicinity, like rub offon the other person.

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say which one's taking
it slow.
I don't think either one of usare necessarily taking it slower
, but I think she would agreethat if we had to choose, it
would probably be her.
But I am in like record modenow that we're releasing music,

(10:22):
and some of this music we'vebeen working on for the last six
years is finally seeing thelight of day.
So there's a lot of daily,there's a lot of my focus.
My daily focus goes intothinking about how to properly
present the visual aspects ofthis record or these singles

(10:45):
that are coming out.
So there is a lot of daily workthat goes into it, even post
mixing and mastering a record.
So, yeah, I would say that whenI say that my life is like jazz
, there's always.
I guess there's always like Isee stars dancing around.
There's in my everyday rightnow.

Yeah, I mean for those watching and listening.
I mean we're pretty close, Isee you pretty damn often.
More often than that, likeactually, I mean I like that you
say that things are movingslower and you're able to ebb
and flow with projects.
But I mean, from my perspective, I see you very much as like

(11:28):
the orchestrator of all thesethings going on, and whether
it's like actually slower rightnow because you're not in the
production phase of things, man,you're controlling so many
things that are going on.
There's still a lot going on,but you might just have like a
calm mind about it or a morecalm mind.

I think that I'm really trying to figure out a
way to set up my life in a wayin which I'm enjoying everything
I'm doing.
I know that sounds kind ofobvious, but it just hasn't been
for me.
My life has not been set up inthat way.
So now that the star's recordis finished and I don't know

(12:15):
when this is going to air,because people don't know we
have a record finished they justknow we're putting out songs.
But I think that reassessing tome right now is all about just
kind of figuring out how,Because I do have shybies and I
do have icy stars and they'reboth very important to me and
everything in between as well.

(12:36):
So I'm trying to figure out away to set things up so that I'm
constantly doing what I'minspired to do every day.
I think that's the only way tojuggle.
Art specifically is to.
I don't see a reason why youwould have multiple projects if
they weren't bringing somethingdifferent out in you and

(12:56):
inspiring something different.
So for me it's like when I wakeup in the morning, I want to
feel.
Whatever I feel inspired towork on, I want to be able to go
and work on that.

Yeah, I mean that completely makes sense.
I don't think one part of thatdoesn't make sense.
I fully get that.
But to understand, kind of,where you're at in life right
now with everything going on,I'd love to go all the way back
to childhood and I want tounderstand some deeper stuff

(13:28):
about your family life and Iwant to understand the fabric of
who you are from an earlychildhood and will move
throughout the years, but justto understand kind of what went
into the success that you've hadso far and will have.

If you want to start with just explaining some
about childhood, like yourfamily, yeah, I mean, I guess,
to kind of crack open my life,it all starts with my parents.
Obviously my dad was it stillis but my dad's a musician and

(14:09):
he was in a band called the TeenAngels and they were mainly a
cover band.
They wrote some originals butthey did a lot of really cool
stuff in the Detroit metro areaand so for me that feels like
where my inspiration has comefrom in music.

(14:29):
You know, it all starts with mydad.
But yeah, my mom is, you know,she raised four boys, you know,
as a single parent.
My parents divorced, I thinkwhen I was 10, and she has had a
really hard life.
You know, she was an alcoholic.

(14:53):
She's a recovering alcoholicand I think, growing up, that is
just kind of the way I rememberher.
You know, luckily enough, I hadmy band, my brother Andrew Brent
and Jeff.
I mean, I met them inelementary school, so, having
that, they were like my familygrowing up, you know, and our

(15:15):
religion was going in thebasement and playing cover songs
or just learning how to playthese instruments together.
I mean we didn't know how toplay.
When we met each other, welearned how to play together,
you know.
So I feel like that was myreality at the time.
It wasn't.
You know, I didn't have like anecessarily a family that was,

(15:40):
you know, playing board gamestogether.
You know, it's like I didn'thave a mom and a dad that were
together.
I didn't have a dad I saw allthe time.
I saw him once a week and youknow, but it was he, you know,
made that one time a week soimportant, you know.
So I looked forward to it, butyou know, it was, you know, on

(16:00):
six days out of the week.
It was me and my friends and wewere just learning how to play
music together and I feel likethat was a big escape from what
felt like kind of a brokenchildhood, you know.

Yeah, that's beautiful, thank you for sharing
that yeah.
Why was it that you were onlyseeing your dad once a week?

God.
You know, I'm sure that theanswer is complicated, but I
think the short answers.
That was just the kind of theterms of the divorce.
My mom had full custody of usand he was.

(16:44):
I think my dad could have seenus really whenever he wanted to,
but I just think that it was acomplicated time in his life too
, you know, and I also justbelieve that my mom was a
complicated woman and so we werean extension of that, you know,

(17:05):
and I think that there was justa lot that went into wanting to
see us.
You know, and I definitely,even as an adult, you know, I
feel like the lack of trying andthe lack of wanting to see us

(17:28):
wasn't really there with my dad.
I know that he, my dad, put alot of effort into me and my
brothers, but yeah, I mean notto put this all on my mom.
You know my mom put food on thetable, she worked her ass off
to, you know, keep a roof overher head, and she was dealing
with a very real disease, youknow.

(17:48):
But I have to believe that shemade things also very difficult
for my dad to see us and tovisit us, and you know what I
mean it was that her, my dad,did not have really a strong
relationship, even, you know, astwo parents who were trying to

(18:09):
raise kids like it's not, likethey really had a strategy so,
and there was a lot of heartachein their relationship too.
You know things I'll neverfully understand or even
probably fully know the truth of.
You know there was a lot ofcomplicated heartbreak that
happened within theirrelationship that I'm sure made

(18:29):
it even difficult for them tosee each other, and you know
that's part of that would bealso part of seeing us, you know
so.
But it worked for me really.
You know I'm, seeing my dad oncea week was, you know, who knows
what our relationship wouldhave been like if I saw more
than that.

(18:50):
But all I do know is thatseeing him once a week, he was
able to be this very positive,influential person in my life
that one day a week, and Ineeded that because my
relationship with my mom wasreally tough.
You know she, you know I thinkthat a lot of the hardships in

(19:13):
her life was very easy for herto kind of look at us and blame
us.
You know, yeah.

Yeah, I completely understand some
things now that I'm gonna asksome questions to figure out,
kind of, how music became yourworld and you explained that it
was your escape, but I'mguessing growing up your dad
since you saw him very littlewas kind of like your idol.

Like you.

I'm guessing that you saw him playing music
and you thought that that was away to escape.
Did you get into music?
Because you saw your dad inthat world and you saw that as
an escape for him?

I feel like my dad was like he was really good at
keeping his career and him as afather separate.
You know, I think the fact thatmy dad was a musician was like
what kind of planted the seed,but I don't necessarily think it
was the water that made theplant grow.

(20:18):
You know, like I feel like forme it was a lot of what I was
listening to at the time, youknow, and that what I was
listening to was constantlyevolving.
You know, I mean I started offlistening to a lot of punk music
.
You know I listened to a lot ofBlink 182 and you know Green

(20:38):
Day, but eventually I'll neverforget my oldest brother, mike.
He showed us a Warp Tour CD.
I didn't even know what WarpTour was and I remember hearing
a Coheed and Cambria song and Iwas obsessed with it and I don't

(21:02):
remember exactly which song itwas because I shortly after
started listening to themimmediately.
You know all of their discog,but I just remember, for the
longest time I thought it was agirl singing and it was like my
introduction to this idea that,like a man can have that kind of

(21:31):
voice.
You know, that was thatintroduction to me and that's
when I knew that that's the kindof singer I wanted to be.
I knew that at a very young age.
I think I was 12 or 13 when Iheard my first Coheed song and
that brought me to so manydifferent artists, you know
Chiotos being one of them.

(21:52):
Coming from Michigan, they werea Michigan based band and
watching them kind of start to,I saw them at a Knights of
Columbus you know 75 cap roomand then they became this huge
band that inspired a wholegeneration of post hardcore, you
know bands.

(22:14):
So the seed was planted by mydad but I feel like the plant
grew and was watered andnurtured by a lot of my
inspirations and I think that myband kind of followed that
inspiration because we startedoff covering Weezer and Blink,
1882 and Death Cab for QD andyou know those are the songs we

(22:38):
grew up covering and learninghow to play our instruments.
But when we started writing ourown songs it was very much
inspired by bands like Coheeding, cambria and Chiotos.
So but yeah, to go back to mydad, I mean he, I would say that

(22:58):
after the plant started growing, you know he, when he started
seeing it grow, he really helped.
You know, give it sunlight.
You know, and I'm using thisanalogy but, like you know, he
was the one who put mics aroundus and started recording our
songs for us and, even thoughthey sounded like shit, he
allowed us to kind of hearourselves and learn from that.

(23:21):
You know, and it's just wasjust a whole lot of feels today,
like a whole lot of happyaccidents.

You know, yeah, how old were you whenever he
started putting mics in front ofstuff?

I think the first time we recorded an IC Star song
I had to have been like 12 or13, something like that.
The timeline is a little foggyin my brain, but is that what
you guys were going by at thatage.
So at that age, the first namewe had was stating the obvious

(23:59):
and that was, but we were stillcovering, you know, songs.
At that point, you know, wewere coming and like fall out
boy and we were learning how toplay our instruments, you know.
But the first time we everplayed a show, together with our
original songs, the nightbefore that show we had to think
of a name and we sat at a parkby our house for several hours,

(24:25):
just, you know, throwing namesat the wall and was waiting for
something to stick.
I remember, you know, as kids,like, the one thing we really
wanted was we wanted it to lookcool when it was written on your
hand, and I don't know why, butthat was just so important to
us.
So our all of our hands werejust inked up with pen, you know
.
And we landed on IC Stars andyou know, the rest is really

(24:52):
history.
But yeah, I mean, we've hadthat name since I was 12, you
know.
So it's been 11 years, yeah.

Whenever you mentioned Chiodos, it just made
me realize that is thatsomewhere around there.
Is that how you met Nick Martin, who's obviously he was in
drugs.

He also is on some .

Chiodos records.

Yeah.
But now he's yeah, I forgot theband that Nick Martin was in.
He was in a band, I mean, nowit's sleeping with sirens just
to throw it out there, but I'mtalking like way back he used to
scream in a band.
Yeah, he had a really awesomescream.
I mean I say had, but I justhaven't heard him scream in a

(25:36):
long time.
But that's how I knew him asfar as like when I discovered
him.
But yes, how I met him, I methim when we toured with drugs.
We did it was the AP tour, itwas Blackville Brides Drugs Us
and yeah, he was really kind tous and just a really nice guy.

So yeah, yeah, I had a shot of him.
I love that guy.
He's so nice.

Yeah, really nice guy always been the same dude.
I just remember us reallyreally connecting with him, but
I haven't really spoken to himmuch since.
But yeah, I was a huge fan ofhim before I met him, but I was
a fan of him for reasons thatI'm sure a fraction of the
people that are fans of him nowdon't even know it exists.

(26:24):
But I cannot remember the nameof the band that he screamed in
so good.

Yeah.

Put a little font here that will figure it out
afterwards.

Yeah, he told me the band and I didn't know, but
it was the local cool like.

Yeah, it was local , but man, it was so cool he had
such a.
He had like a really unique wayof screaming.
I remember that's what I reallyloved about him, but yeah,
super talented guy.

All right.
So Nick Martin, me and Devinlove you.
You know we were having a brainfart moment I'm just going to
insert here.
Obviously underminded is theband that we just could not
figure out, so I'm going toinsert that here and let's get
back to it.

(27:10):
Hell, yeah, okay.
So you're like 12 or 13 and youjust start recording your first
tracks and you play your firstshow.
Tell me some about like thatage and how how you guys like
came together to actually makesomething that you is like
tangible and you could put out.

Yeah, dude, I mean it's so crazy when I think
about that era of my life,because the era between 13 and
15 like could have been 10 years, you know, because it just
feels like such a strong era ofmy life and just such an
inspired time.
You know, it was definitely ourgateway into playing shows and

(27:53):
kind of forming a community andreally becoming the band that
got assigned.
You know, because a big part ofour journey was building a
local fan base and there were somany tools.
I know there's so many toolstoday but the tools are so

(28:13):
obvious that it's very saturated, Whereas back then you had some
underground tools but theyweren't as, like you know,
mainstream.
There was like pure volume, youknow, and obviously my space,
but there were also these waysof figuring out who the biggest
local bands were.

(28:34):
You know, like, I think, purevolume, you could search, like
what bands were the biggest inyour area that are signed and
unsigned, you know.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, it was really, reallycool because not only was it a
great way for you to discoverartists and I was discovering
tons of unsigned artists at thetime and constantly doing

(28:56):
research and constantly tryingto figure it was there was a
competitive nature to it, ofcourse.
I wanted to know, like whowe're up against.
You know, I mean, and I thinkthat that was it was like a
healthy competitive nature,because it always made us want
to be better.
You know, you always wanted tobe number one on that unsigned
Michigan list, you know, and youknow, but we had a lot of

(29:19):
strong competition, you know, Imean, we had.
We came as Romans from Michiganand I feel like God, I feel
like they're a big reason why weimproved as a band, and I like
to think I could say the samefor them, because we were
feeding off of each other'senergy when we were growing up.

(29:39):
We were all friends, but therewas a competitive nature to it
that was healthy because youjust, we would see them do
something and we would getinspired.
And you know, I would thinkthat they would see us do
something and they would getinspired, and it was constantly
like we were growing together.
You know there was, you know itwas like you want.

(30:00):
You need that healthy,competitive nature to grow, you
know, and we were really luckyto have such a strong Michigan
music scene, local music scene,but yeah, I mean, 13 to 15 was
great and there was also a lotof really great local venues.
I remember at the time to playsome of the bigger venues, like

(30:22):
I remember there was a theatercalled the Emerald Theater and
I'll never forget booking a showthere because in order to play,
you had to sell, like you hadto like sell physical tickets
and if the ones you didn't sellyou had to pay for you know.
So they would give you like 200tickets at 10 bucks a pop and

(30:43):
you would have to go and sellthem, you know, and that was the
only way you were going to booka gig at the Emerald Theater.
But over time there were thesevenues like there was this one
called MySpace Cafe, there was avenue called GameStop 360 or
something like that Anyways, andthen there was like the Haloft.

(31:04):
There are all these like kindof local venues that were
opening up, that were like 300cap rooms roughly if you're
cramming people shoulder toshoulder, but they just were
just letting anybody come in andperform, and you know, and we
got into a routine of playingMySpace Cafe.

(31:26):
And at the time MySpace Cafe wasan internet cafe.
You just went and played gamesand surfed the internet, you
know, back when people didn'thave their own computers at home
, you know.
And so we played MySpace Cafeand we ended up selling this
place out like every weekend, tothe point where they're like
hold on a second, we're makingmore money putting on shows than

(31:49):
we are having people come anduse our computers.
So they ended up moving fromthis small, dinky internet cafe
building to a more music venueand it was called MySpace Cafe
and we ended up playing thisplace like at least once or
twice a month and it was sellingout every single time.

(32:14):
And it wasn't selling outbecause we were this amazing
band.
It was selling out because wehelped cultivate like a little
community of people that love togo to our shows, because there
was a, you know, hundreds oflike-minded individuals that
were kind of starting to getinto this post-hard core scene
that was creeping up.
And eventually MySpace Cafeended up booking like Devil

(32:38):
Wears, prada, cheotos, augustBurns, red A Data, remember, you
know, I mean they lived on tobook some really big shows and
they would always put us onthese shows.
And I'm telling you all thisbecause it leads to how we got
signed.
Ash at Samaritan was catchingWait.

I want to pause you real quick, yeah, yeah.
I'm just getting into that yeah, yeah.
I want people that are listeningand viewing this to like really
understand if they're artists.
I still think that that is theway you have to do it.
I really want to be vocal aboutthis because I've had many
artists on and I talk to themall the time and if you just pop

(33:23):
on TikTok, it's incrediblydifficult to get that popularity
to move over to Spotify andhave streams.
But it's even more difficult toget people to come out to your
show.
Yeah, it is so incredibly tough.
I've worked with people thatabsolutely have popped on TikTok
, but live you might may get 50people or so there For sure.

(33:48):
I mean it's a real reality, butbuilding a very dedicated fan
base from the ground up, justmoving slow and methodically
like that.
I work with this band, beautySchool Dropout.
I really love them.
And I had Bardo on who's he'sthe guitarist but he's also a
producer for the band and theydid the same kind of thing.
They played little local pop upshows that would just

(34:10):
continuously sell out over andover and over and they built up
a fan base.
And now I mean they just got offa tour of Blink 182 and
Turnstyle kind of ridiculous andnow they're overseas doing two
other tours.
And I'm just making a parallelthat I still think at least for
rock, like at least in the rockspace, you have to build that

(34:34):
dedicated fan base throughorganic memes.
It can't just be views onTikTok.

Yeah, I mean, man, I think that that goes for any
genre.
You know, I mean even, you know, watching artists like, like,
in this electronic renaissancethat we've been in for a very
long time, you know, like,watching DJs, like cultivate
events in Detroit, you know, andthat's really how they became

(35:05):
these big.
You know, artists is, you know,creating this event that was
bigger and bigger every week andthen, you know, eventually it
spread like wildfire.
You know, it's like, I thinkthat it's.
It's hard for me to relate towhat it means to be a new artist

(35:26):
.
Today, I am feel very lucky tohave grown up at a time where we
didn't have, you know, wedidn't have TikTok and all of
these these, you know theseresources that could be somewhat
a little overwhelming.
You know, it's like my space.
The my space days were thisreally cool time where really

(35:52):
all you had to do was updateyour my space page every like
couple of months.
You know what I mean and reallythe sole focus was putting out
music.
That's what it was all about.
It wasn't releasing videos andyou know, 30 second videos and,
by the way, I'm not, I'm notdogging on the times.
Today it's a different time.
I think that there are peopleout there that are thinking of

(36:13):
this time as I think of my spacetimes.
You know, like we're always,times are always changing.
There's always new resources atyour fingertips, you know it's
how you use those tools, and allI know how to talk about is how
I use my tools.
Back in the day, when my spacewas the the tool, you know, and

(36:34):
I do think that between my spaceand playing shows constantly
and, like I said, it wasn't thatwe were this amazing band, it
was that we we went up on thatstage and we were these crazy
kids, Like we were 13 years oldand we were had banging and, you
know, and screaming, and hadelectronics in our music, which

(36:57):
was also really kind of new atthe time, you know.
So there was a lot of, there wassomething kind of.
There was kind of a spectaclehappening in front of you, you
know, and so.
But I do believe that playingshows is so important because If

(37:17):
you win someone over because ofyour live performance, that is
the kind of person that's gonnaprobably go to your Spotify and
follow you and like your music.
And that's how these people getupdated these days, because
there's so much music out there.
There's so much music andunless you're fully committed,

(37:38):
like following a Spotify page,liking a song, there might be a
lot of music that goes over yourhead, you know so.

I also think it's the way to sell merch.
Yeah, live.
I mean there's something aboutthat merch booth leaving a show
with something that, to rememberthat show, buy yeah, like of
course you can throw up LincolnBayou, you know, like here's my
merch.
If you resonate with somebody,live and you have like a real
true fan who has a potentialbuying that merch but really

(38:09):
like following your successthroughout the years, there's
something so special about that.
Totally.
We can go back now to how youmet, you know, people from
Samaritan.

Yeah Well.

I mean, how old are you by the?

way.
So we signed with Samaritanwhen I was 15.
So I think that Samaritan wascatching wind of our band around
age 14, you know.

And you, and this means that you never had a
job.

That's a lie.
I worked as a busboy at OutbackSteakhouse early on during our
signing, and that's a funnystory actually.

You're gonna tell both of them, both of how
you met them and your best boystory, yeah.

Well, while we're on the Outback Steakhouse story
God, I was so.
I was such a horrible kid.
I told my boss when we got ourfirst tour this is horrible,
this is so bad.
I told him that my grandma diedand that we were having a
family funeral in Florida and Ihad to go away for a month and

(39:23):
he let me go.
I got to keep my job and allthe while, every single coworker
knew that I was in this bandthat was touring and was on this
like relatively big tourbecause it was a skylight drive
attack, attack.
It was like I think Dance,gavin Dance was on it as well.
It was like the tour to be onat that time.

(39:46):
Yeah, that's a flex, that's aflex of life, I mean think about
all those names at that timewas like really cool.
But so like, anyways, all mycoworkers knew that this was
what was really going on.
So eventually, I think the newsgot out shortly after I got

(40:07):
back and but yeah, I was justsuch a savage.
I feel pretty bad about that.
But anyways, I met some Marian.
So let's go back to the MySpaceCafe.
So I was playing these localshows with the guys and what

(40:27):
ended up happening is a lot ofthese signed artists would
request us on the show becausethey knew that we would sell it
out.
They knew we would sell at theMySpace Cafe.
So it didn't matter if you were, you know Devil Wars, prada or
you know Amir.
You know you wanted our band onthat show because we cultivated

(40:49):
such a huge fan base there.
And so Amir was actually one ofthe bands to really kind of
start noticing us and Frankie,the screamer of Amir.
We started kind of forming alittle bit of a relationship

(41:11):
with those guys and he had arelationship with Samarian and I
believe Ash booked Amir at thetime because Ash was a booking
agent as well, and so Ash justkind of started keeping tabs on
us.
He reached out to my guitarplayer, brent.
They stayed in touch andeventually that led to a

(41:35):
contract and at the time we weretalking to Victory Records.
We had a few other recordlabels that were sniffing around
.
But there was something aboutSamarian that felt really
wholesome.
I really felt like they caredabout the fact that we were kids
, that we were, that assigningwith them meant leaving high
school and that was a really bigproblem for a lot of our
parents.

(41:55):
I remember there was a hugeparent meeting between the
band's parents.
They met at my mom's house andit was a pretty aggressive
conversation but eventually allthe parents said yes, but my dad
, being the musician, knowingwhat this life looks like, said

(42:20):
hell, no.
He was like they're not doingthis, they're finishing school,
it's not going, it's not what'sgonna happen.
I remember my dad specificallysaying to all the parents he
said none of you guys have livedthis life I have, and the
answer is no.
And so he changed a lot oftheir minds and the answer kind

(42:42):
of was more leaning towards no.
And then Jeff Cohen, who is ainvestor in Samarian, he's a
co-owner and I remember himcalling the parents and talking
to them and he's a great guy andhe's a father.
So I think that him kind ofcoming from that angle being

(43:05):
like hey, I know they're kids, Ihave kids, we're gonna take
care of them out there.
I think that's really allowedour parents to open their minds
to this for us.
But I was the only one reallydoing good in school and my

(43:26):
band's not gonna care if I saythis, cause they know it's true.
Brent, Andrew and Jeff were.
They were all kind of more inthat D plus range and I was
getting A's and B's.

Devin, I know you well enough to know that
you're a hella smart ass.
Were you actually the one doingthe best?

No, this is true, this is true.
Actually, I really I think Igot lucky in school, like I
think I just like I don't thinkI was that smart, I just think
that I was lucky and cared justenough to get those A's and

(44:09):
those B's and try to stand theon-roll and stuff.
I mean that is all because ofmy dad.
You know, my dad was really.
He really kind of instilled inus that we are going to school
to learn, so come back withknowledge.
You know what I mean, and so Ireally didn't care too much
about school, but I did careabout making, you know, my dad

(44:29):
happy and proud and all that.
So I did do good in school.
So my dad was really concernedthat I was leaving school and so
I remember him taking me out tolunch and I was like, is this
really what you wanna do?
You know everyone's leadingtowards, yes, but you're the
only one that is leaving withgood grades.

(44:50):
You know essentially so, but itwas what I wanted to do and I
feel like I had this like reallyI don't wanna give myself too
much credit, but I think at thetime I knew that school was
always an option.
This was not always an option.
I could always finish highschool online, which I did, and

(45:16):
go to college later, but thiswas a moment, one moment, and I
was either gonna seize it or itwas gonna go by, and I was
always gonna wonder if that wassomething I should do.

So that's a really wise thing to have the
answer for at 15.
Not that wise?

you know I'm not that wise, I don't know.
I just I felt it in my bones.
You know, I thought about howmany times we played these
venues and watched these signedbands and we looked up to them
and we wanted so badly to be intheir shoes.
I thought about all those timesthat I wanted that for us and

(45:54):
to throw in the towel justdidn't feel like it.
It didn't even feel like anoption, you know.

I wanna take a second to just say, for people
watching and listening, that alot of the guests that I talked
to that have had success as anartist particularly, but I mean
some producers as well.
I think it's their ability tolisten to whatever that power is

(46:21):
there is.
I don't think it just comesfrom like within.
You know that feeling in yourstomach.
Yeah, it feels like I don'tknow, just like some kind of
like thing pushing on you.
That's just like I've had themseveral times where it was
either I do this or not, but itfeels like I'm supposed to do
this, even when it soundsfucking crazy.
But I think that the peopleI've talked to that have that's

(46:43):
come up.
I think it's their ability tolisten in that moment and just
jump off the cliff, becausethat's what that is.

Yeah, well, just to piggyback off that, I think
there's a lot of naivety in that, but it's good.
You know, it's like this.
I don't wanna say falseconfidence, but like you have,
like as a 13 year old, I had alot of this confidence.
I don't know where it came from, but I think I just saw what

(47:16):
was happening.
I saw what was happening atthese shows we were playing.
I saw I was watching artiststhat I was playing shows with
get signed and go off to dosomething and I was watching it
happen.
I was seeing it really happenand for us it didn't feel like

(47:37):
impossible.
It felt like it was right there.
We just had to go for it.
That was the next step.
The next step was okay, nowit's real.
This is no longer playing downthe street from your house.
This is like now we're gonna goout there and we're gonna
really give this a shot.
We're gonna cut a record andthere was a lot of naivety in it

(48:01):
and there was a lot of I think.
It's like we didn't see how thesausage was made, so there was a
lot of glamour in our heads ofwhat this was gonna be like.
I mean, even being, even havinga 15 passenger van felt
glamorous.
Being in a 15 passenger vanwith a trailer was like cool.

(48:21):
It was like having a bus, likehaving a cool 15 passenger van
was cool back then, and I lovethat.
I love thinking about that.
I can tap into that headspacebecause I know why it was cool
because it just meant that youwere doing it.
It just meant that you weregoing for it.
I meant you were serious.
That is what having a van and atrailer meant.

(48:43):
It meant you were serious, andI think that I love that about
our headspace.
At the time, it didn't takemuch to feel like you took it
seriously, but yeah, so anyways,I agree, though I agree that at
some point when you're doingthis, you have to just trust

(49:06):
yourself, and I can't believethat we trusted ourselves at
such a young age.
It feels like a lot of powerfor a little kid, but there was.
I think that because we were allbest friends and we were doing
it together, there was somethingin that too.
We were all in it together andwe pushed each other to do it

(49:31):
and so, yeah, so we eventuallysigned with Samarian and we went
on to cut our first record inFlorida with a producer named
Cameron Miselle, and that was awhole experience of itself.
It's like I think about thatand that record turning out the
way it did.
It's such a special record.

(49:54):
It's like I think that there wasnaivety in that process too,
because you're not really you'renot over cooking things, you're
just we're just out there torecord our songs.
We're not really thinking aboutthe drum tones or the guitar
tones or the mix.
There's so much about that nowthat we think about, and it's

(50:15):
important to think about thosethings.
You know you're a mixingengineer, so it's so important,
but at that time that was notwhat was important.
All that was important wasmaking these songs sound loud
and good and like the thingsthat we love.
We wanted it to have that sameenergy of the things that

(50:39):
inspired us.

But I mean not to discredit mix engineers or
anything, but I'm very, Itotally understand that my role
is so less important thanliterally anything Like if you
get into a room and you're ableto channel raw emotion and

(51:02):
feeling into a track that isalways going to touch an
audience 10 times, 100 times,more than a track that just was
put together and mixedincredibly well.
That emotion of you guys justgetting in there and being
excited to do that, beingexcited to do this and put those
ideas down, hold so much moreweight than caring about all the

(51:26):
little nuances, so that I meanthat's why it was magic.

Yeah, I mean, I do think it's all about having an
intention.
When you go into the studio,you know, and if your intention
is just to go in there and putyour songs down like you're
going to enjoy the process, it'slike I think that that
intention is going to shine.
If your intention is you wantthis to sound like the greatest

(51:53):
rock mix anyone's ever heard,you want this record to compete,
it's all about what yourintention is, and I think at
that time our intention was thatwe kind of wanted it to sound a
little shitty, because it's notwasn't necessarily like this is

(52:14):
going to sound really weird,but an intentional intention.
I think it was like asubconscious intention, because
we were listening to records atthe time that had, like this
essence of rawness and we reallywanted to make sure that that
existed.

Do you remember some of the records that were
influencing you back then?

Well, coed and Cambria, the second stage of
Turbine.
That was like one of the mostinfluential records for me, but
it's hard for me to name record.
So my brother, mike, used toburn CDs and we used to have a

(52:57):
whole booklet of just burned CDs.
I remember those days and Italked to Yazzy about this all
the time because I'm just like Icould sing you songs and tell
you the songs that I love byartists.

But back in that era of time I couldn't
necessarily tell you the recordsthat inspired me, but I'm the
same, I could sing thetransition going into the next
song before it would play, but Iwouldn't know what record it
was, because Lime Wire, napsteror any of those things where I
was just pirating music, yeah,but there are some.
I mean, obviously, bone PalaceBallet by Chiodos.

There was a lot of like and Jason Hale, their
guitar player.
He had this rawness to hisguitar tones.
It wasn't a perfect guitar tone, but it was his.
So that's kind of what I mean,even less refined all's well
that ends well, whatever.
I'd listened to that.

Totally yeah, I listened to it maybe a couple of
weeks ago.

It is so raw.
But holy shit, the emotion isthere, yeah exactly I mean any
Chiodos record really, and anyKohi'd record for real at that
time was so influential.
And God, I'm trying to rememberwhat Kohi'd record they ended
up remixing.
But if you listen to theversion before it, it's, god

(54:19):
it's.
I might be the second stage.
I can't remember, god.
I'm trying to think now yeah, Iwasn't the deepest Kohi'd fan,
or else I'd have to say I mean,they're amazing.

I just it missed my radar.
Do you mind if I pull out myphone real quick?

You should do it Cause I just want to get this
right.
Yeah, so it is the second stage, turbine, and so that record, I
believe, was remixed, and theold version.
I got used to hearing the, theunmixed version, or the version,
the version prior to the remix,and I got so used to that that

(54:58):
when I heard it I was like and Igot so used to that that when I
heard the remix I loved it, butthere was something that I
think changed about it.
You know what I mean.
That was so inspiring for me inthe first place.
So, anyways, all that to besaid, I think we went in for our
first record.
There was like that intentionthat we it wasn't about it

(55:19):
sounding perfect, it was aboutit having like this, like flair
that was only ours.
You know what I mean and thatand having something specific
that was to us, you know, and myguitar player, like with his
tones, like we really we werereally hardcore on that, and
those are things that, like, Idon't really feel like we think

(55:40):
about as much as we as we'd liketo these days, like I'm just
mean rock bands in general, andon this last record I remember
we the one that we just did.
My guitar player said somethingat some point.
He was like I feel like he'slike I can't hear the position

(56:02):
of my fingers, you know, causehe is such a guru at finding
these really unique chords thatput his fingers in these really
uncomfortable situations, youknow, and he's not a traditional
guitar player, you know he goesby feel and he's not sitting

(56:23):
there calling out notes, youknow, he's just finding what
feels right, you know.
And so I remember him sayingthat while we were working on
this last record, and thatreally struck me because I'm
like that is such a big part ofwhy we loved these artists in
the first place.
What we, what inspired us fromthe very beginning, was hearing

(56:45):
the position of a guitarplayer's hand, hearing the
stress, you know.
So I feel like, you know, I'mjust kind of, I think I'm just
reminiscing on that, becausewhen I think about our first
record, that was so importantand it's so weird to think about
what's important now versuswhat was important then.

But I'm curious does that have to do with, like,
amp sims as opposed to actuallyplaying raw out of an amp?

I actually feel like it has a lot to do with the
mix because the thing is islike people don't, people don't
wanna when and you couldprobably chime in on this more
than I could, but I feel likewhen people are mixing songs now
, they don't want anything toodistracting, they wanna make
room for everything, you know.
But I don't think that's whatit was really about back then.

(57:34):
I think it was just.
I think it was about putting itall together and just making it
work and it was likeuncomfortable.
But that was the point, you know, whereas today it's like it's
about making room and you don'twant it to be too distracting,
you don't want it to pull awayfrom the vocals.
You know, you want a drummerthat stays in the pocket, you

(57:57):
don't want them to be drumsoloing the whole record, right.
But it's like back then that'swhat it was.
It was like the weird stuff.
It was the weird drums, it wasthe weird tones, guitar tones,
it was the distractions all overthe place that made this weird
post-hardcore scene kind ofuplifted the scene.

(58:18):
The scene thrived on thoseuncomfortable moments, on the
songs you know.

So, yeah, I think I can weigh in on some of
that.
I think you did a great job atpinpointing the issue.
But yeah, now I mean we have ascooped sound and for those
listening, we finally have a lowend in rock, for the longest
time there wasn't really low end.
It was more like we call itlike a frowny face, like no low

(58:45):
end, no top end, but a lot ofmids.
Now it's more of a smiley.
You know, we got top end, wegot low end, but to do that we
have to make room for all theindividual elements and we
smashed the shit out of alimiter to make tracks loud.
You know, back in that eratracks were not that loud.

I mean, we are so much louder now.

But the only way to do that is to carve all this
room, and I totally understandwhat you mean.
Back then things had resonanttones like so frequencies that
poked out and the smearing ofindividual instruments with
other ones, like meaning thatthey don't have room.
They're just kind of likerubbing each other it.

(59:27):
I mean, it was definitely atime and a place and a sound,
and then on top of thateverything was probably mixed on
a console with outboard gearand you have to print the mix in
real time press play and youprint it to either tape or to
Pro Tools or whatever you do.
But you know, now most peopleseem to mix in the box.

(59:52):
There are totally people whoare outside the box, but very,
very few mixers who are still ona console.
Yeah, it's the guys who havebig studios that can still house
a huge console.

Devin Oliver (01:00:05):
Yeah, I mean, you know, and, but I think we're so
used to what we hear now thateven when you hear a song mixed
on a council, it can be a littleshocking, you know, because I
mean I can't talk like I have alot of experience.
I just know that we had a mixdone on this record, done on a

(01:00:27):
council, that we actually didn't.
We didn't go through with that,you know, and I think that even
just talking about it is sadbecause it makes me realize,
like you know, how we've kind ofstrayed away from the path a
little bit of like I think justrock music in general has

(01:00:51):
strayed a little bit from thepath of what I why I loved it in
the first place.
You know it was this really raremoment in music where, like,
like it was, there was somethingchildish going on in rock music
.
It was rock and roll, you knowit was, you know, but it was
like the post-hardcore versionof that, you know, and I think

(01:01:12):
it's kind of seeing the light ofday again.
You know, I feel like bandslike Turnstile, like when you
listen to that, there is like a,there is like a childish like
feel to the music that reallymakes me think of, like Weezer,
I'm like you know some of thatraw shit that I grew up on that

(01:01:32):
made you, you know, you're notthinking so much about the mix,
you're thinking about this bandin a garage like playing, you
know what I mean.
So I think it's kind ofsurfacing again, which is really
exciting.

Austin Seltzer (01:01:44):
No doubt.
And also I mean you guys have alot of low end.
There's a lot of low end stuffgoing on Bass drops, 808s,
different like just really heavysub parts to your bass, totally
difficult to run through aconsole and get the umph that
you need.
I mean it's the loud music, forsure, and it has low end.

(01:02:06):
So it's just like somethingthat had to evolve.

Yeah for sure.
And with that evolution alsocame touring, because we started
to realize touring more andplaying these, you know, playing
outside of our comfort zone,which was Michigan, you know,
started to realize like and itbrings kind of wraps us back to
what we were first talking aboutplaying live shows and why it's
so important growing a core fanbase.

(01:02:32):
But I also think that playinglive shows is so important
because you start realizing whatpeople are, what's resonating
with people.
You feel that energy.
You see it.
You start writing for it, youknow, because you're like it
becomes like kind ofintoxicating and it's, you see,
something hit live and you'relike I want more moments like

(01:02:54):
that, you know.
So you're in the studio andyou're all of a sudden you're
thinking about that live showand I feel like that was a big
part of the evolution of ourmusic as well.
You know, not just in thestudio but also on stage and
starting to.
You know, play the.
I mean we were playing likevenues like the Fubar in St
Louis and you know these smallvenues that were shoulder to

(01:03:18):
shoulder, but it didn't matterif people were uncomfortable, if
part moved them so much theydidn't.
There was no choice but to makeroom.
You know, and when you've seenthose moments live, it really
kind of makes you want to.
You know you want more of thosemoments.
You know it kind of becomes alittle bit of an addiction,
absolutely.

I've always thought I'm gonna make a
parallel to electronic world,which I know you're very into
and we'll talk about that atsome point.
But like, what a cheat code tobe on tour I mean either as a DJ
or as a band and get to playyour songs live while you're
working on them.
Oh, my God Like even if you guyshad a demo that you just wrote

(01:04:00):
that day and you played it live,you get to see it, you get an
immediate feedback.
You know people fuck with thisIf they love all of it, but then
there's this one section that Ilost the crowd.
You can go back to the drawingboard.
I think that that's freakingbeautiful, and I know that
there's so many people thatprobably like artists or

(01:04:20):
whatever, think that that's likeun-pure, like you got to put
out the art for the, just forthe art.
But if I were in your positionthe art is making people move In
my mind.
I want to make people feel acertain way and if I could see
immediately if they'reresonating with it or not, I
would make a change.

(01:04:41):
So I think that that makestotal sense to me, that you
would want to write music tomove people.

Yeah, I mean, I agree, I mean, but it is
whatever you want it to be, youknow, but for me it was that,
for me, like art, you know,especially, you know, if you're
moving on to like the digital,renegade new demons era of our
career, which is our third andfourth record, it's like that

(01:05:15):
was a lot about what the fuck isgonna make these kids lose
their minds.
You know, like I remember I wasshowing a couple of friends of
mine who I met because they werefans of our band, but they've
become really close friends ofmine, but I love showing them
new music because I feel likeI'm gonna get some serious raw

(01:05:39):
feedback from them from a fan'sperspective.
And there was a time where Ishowed them a few new songs and
they're like, you know, I keepwaiting for that moment, though,
you know, you guys, you guysalways have that moment.
That is just like I can seemyself experiencing it live, and
I just haven't heard that yetand I was like ooh, I like that.

(01:06:00):
I loved that feedback because Iwas like you know, that is what
our band has always been about,you know is creating that moment
where live it's gonna go off,you know.
So, anyways, I feel likeplaying live is so important for
so many reasons.

(01:06:20):
But, yeah, I've never played asong that we wrote that wasn't
finished, at least beingrecorded.
You know, I've never played ademo live in our career since
we've been signed, you know, butI do know that DJs get to do
that a lot.
They'll write a song that day,and they'll be like I'm gonna

(01:06:40):
drop this and not just see howit goes over, but see how it
sounds live, you know.
So I really think that that's apowerful tool.
But I do think, though, thatwhat we are trying to do right
now is release some songs andsee what the feedback is and we
have all these other songs thatare finished, but, based on the

(01:07:04):
feedback, we might go back inand change a couple of things
and, like you know, that's thebest we have right now as far as
like playing live.
It's like letting these songsgo live and seeing what happens
and then not being afraid tonothing's finished until it's
out.
That's been my mindset.
You know, with this wholeprocess, this new era of our

(01:07:25):
career, it's like I wanna learnfrom our releases and I wanna
like continue to sculpt thesesongs and, like you know, I
don't wanna write these.
I don't wanna work on thesesongs like they're gonna be
played at my funeral, but I dowant to.
I think I just want to be opento moving things around until

(01:07:47):
they're ready to be out and then, when they're out, it's like
you know, you're making peacewith whatever the results are at
that point, you know, but Ithink that's the closest I have
to like.
Playing a song live before it'sout is just learning from your
releases and continuing to moldthe songs that haven't been put
out yet.
You know.

Okay, so we've signed a record deal, we've gone
on some tours, we've recordedsome music.
I want people to understand,like because so far all of this
sounds it sounds like it's beenpretty easy, like it's just like

(01:08:27):
naturally come, which wheneveryou are like 12, 13, 14, I mean
you grew up in a difficulthousehold and that wasn't easy
and I have to think you knowthat that's why you went into
music, to escape some of that.
But then I mean you guys areplaying local shows after local

(01:08:50):
shows and you're just killing itLike that's awesome.
And then you started playingwith big acts and then you go.
You signed a deal and you goout on the road.
Tell us some like hardships thatyou had to go through so that
you know people understand likeall of this hard work does pay
off, but it kicks you in the asswhile it's happening.

Totally, I mean, I think the biggest hardship that
comes to mind is just being ina band in general, in general,
because you know, when you're akid and you're just having fun,
there's not really the pressureof you know what this needs to

(01:09:39):
be, you know, or what you know.
It's really just whatever it is, it is and that's cool, you
know.
I think as you get olderespecially me and my band
particularly it's like ourinspirations have evolved on so
many levels and also veryseparately.
You know we're four piece butwe're all equally involved.

(01:10:03):
You know, as far as like, wherewe want to take this thing.
But I will say specifically meand my brother Andrew.
You know we're very hard headedin what we want and how we
envision things and theycouldn't be more the opposite
sometimes and it's beensomething we've dealt with our
whole career and it's very tough, you know, and I think that it

(01:10:31):
leads to a lot of moments whereyou question whether or not this
is aligning with you anymore.
Like you know and this band hasput me through that ringer a
whole lot you know me being likeis this the band representing

(01:10:51):
what I want to be as an artist?
You know at the age that I amright now and I feel like my
brother, andrew, has a lot ofvery similar thoughts.
But the silver lining is thatwhen that moment happens, when
you write something, when youall agree, you're like this is

(01:11:11):
that song, this is doing it forall of us.
It's like such a special momentbecause you know that over the
years we've all kind of driftedinto our own, you know our own
realm of inspiration and youknow we're all listening to our
music that exists in differentcorners of the you know musical

(01:11:33):
spectrum, you know, and so it'slike when you have something
that hits on fires on all thosecylinders and it's connecting
with each one of us, it's such aspecial moment, you know.
But yeah, I mean, I think everyrecord we've done, me and Andrew
have had really hardconversations about whether or
not this is something we want tocontinue doing, and it's a lot

(01:11:54):
of.
It is because we're brothersand we want to protect that
brotherhood and sometimes thesedisagreements can be so
catastrophic, you know, and itcan push us into.
It can push us into cornersthat we're not usually in as
brothers and we don't.
You know, him and I like, we'reso loving as brothers, we're so

(01:12:16):
, you know, we have each other'sbacks, you know.
But when we're writing music andwe're having disagreements,
sometimes it can feel sodetrimental to like our core
beliefs as musicians that we'reagainst each other for a moment,
you know, and it hurts to bethere.
So I think we've had thosemoments with every record and

(01:12:42):
that's been and it's evensomething that we have till this
day, you know.
And we could be talking aboutmerch, we can be talking about
music videos, we could betalking about you know what the
future looks like, what bands wewant to tour with all of that.
We have those kinds of moments,you know.
And but I think what has beensomething that exists now more

(01:13:04):
than it ever has, is that thereis just this really deep, deep
respect for, you know, ourrelationship and our love for
each other, that it trumpsanything.
Yeah.

I love that for you guys, that you figured that
out, and I'm very well I'mcertain that that's why you both
have created side projects andI think that's helped a lot
actually.

Yeah, having me having Shibes and him having
Dream Beach, you know we're ableto exercise something that is
fully us, you know fullyauthentically me, fully
authentically him no one tellinghim to change this or that, you
know, and I think that's sohealthy.
As an artist, you know you needthat outlet.
But I will say that in Shibes Ifound that, like having those

(01:13:57):
people in your life that arechallenging you and pissing you
off really make a better I don'twanna say better, but it makes
something that you could havenever created on your own.
Yeah, and a lot of times when Ilisten to star songs, even
though I'm such a big part ofthe writing process I mean I've
played drums, guitar, bass, Ising on the records, like I've

(01:14:20):
done a little bit of everythingon these songs I mean, you know,
it's like when I listened tothem, a lot of the time I'm like
how the fuck did we do this?
Because these guys are such abig part, too, in the creation
that I could have never donethis alone.
You know, and I think that'swhat, when you realize that you

(01:14:42):
have a little bit more respectfor the disagreements that you
have in the studio.
You understand that, like, eventhough you feel this way, you
may not be right and if you canjust allow everyone to think
freely and express theiropinions and try everything, you
might land on something youwould have never got to on your
own, something better.
And then you take that with youto your other project or

(01:15:05):
whatever.
You take that little nugget ofknowledge, you know and you go
it up.

That's, I think, a lot of the time the value of
a mix engineer.
To bring that back into it islike just getting another
perspective.
Go ahead dude.
You can pat yourself on theback dude.
It's like it's just a differentperspective For sure.
Like this is this thing thatwe've been working on, like you
was Zach Sravini.
It's like you've been workingand we'll get to this new record

(01:15:29):
.
I really want to talk aboutthat.
But you've been working on thisrecord for so long and then
there's no way that you're notmarried to the rough.
You've been listening to thesethings forever or a long time.
Then you get a freshperspective and it never would
have been this way if it weren'tfor that person.
But also the mixer's job is tounderstand.

(01:15:52):
You have been living with thisforever.

And.

I or Zach or whoever.
Our purpose is to make what'sin your head a reality, and so,
yeah, I mean you have to bendand flow with your brother's
ideas and your ideas and yourother bandmates ideas, but
ultimately, if it's not all ofyou, there's no way that it's
gonna be the IC stars concoctionthat you guys have been able to

(01:16:18):
continuously dish out at asuper high level.

I appreciate that.
Yeah, I mean, finding the rightmixing engineer for this record
was a process of its own.
We obviously had David Bendethproduce it with us and he gave
us a really great perspective ofwhat the mix could be.
I just think we had a differentidea of where we wanted to go,

(01:16:44):
and it brought us to Zach, andwhat I really wanted for this
particular moment in our careerwas to be able to really loosen
my grip and trust that Zach wasgonna bring something that
represented these songs in theirraw state.

(01:17:06):
We did want this record to feelraw.
I mean, we have Luke Hollandplaying the drums.
We didn't wanna throw drumsamples all over the place.
We really wanted you to hearLuke playing, you know.
Otherwise, why do you havesomeone like Luke playing if
you're just gonna sampleeverything?
You know?
And I think that Zach reallyrespected that and I also think
he's just really good at that ingeneral, you know, but-.

I mean Zach is incredible.
I mean there is a reason thathe is just absolutely crushing
every rock record.
I mean he really bringssomething special.

I also think he's just got this really, really
pure way of respecting theartist and just really wanting
to be.
He is such a collaborator, youknow, and like.
I think that's kind of whatmakes every single thing he puts
out feel a little bit like asnowflake.
It's very unique to the artistbecause he's open to being like

(01:18:00):
I wanna know what you want.
I want this to be.
I want this to connect with you.

I mean I have gotten to hear, obviously, the
two that have dropped.
So far and they're I mean theysound freaking amazing and I
guess we can say now but can we?

of course we can I mean cause.

It will be.
Anomaly is going to be on theradio.

Yeah.
Devon is getting a song on theradio, hey yeah, I mean it's
crazy to think because I'vealways I never really cared too
much about the radio, you know,and I think that that's worked
out to our advantage in a way,because if you go to our Spotify
and stuff and Spotify was neverreally popping like it was,

(01:18:44):
even when our last record, trias, came out, it was still kind of
like not the monster.
It is today, mm-hmm, but myband has never been playlisted,
ever, never been on an editorialSpotify playlist and we've
never been on the radio.
Everything that we have isorganic and I think that that's
kind of a testament to evenwhere we began.

(01:19:06):
When I'm telling you thesestories about us playing shows
and building these, likebuilding this community, it's
like it feels like even thislate in our career, that has
been the case up until thispoint.
Obviously, now, with Anomaly,we've gotten our first few
editorial playlists.
We're gonna be on the radio,which is really cool First time

(01:19:27):
on the radio, and we, in everyrecord we've submitted and we've
never even gotten a test runAnomaly skipped the test run,
going straight to regularrotation, which is just really
awesome.
But I don't think I would havechanged anything because whether
we're on the radio or on aplaylist.
We have so many, such abeautiful community of fans that

(01:19:48):
are gonna play our shit becausethey just they love what we do,
and that's that.
They didn't hear us on aneditorial playlist and just like
it because it's on thisplaylist or like it because it's
on the radio.
They liked it because somehowand the universe brought them to

(01:20:08):
this song, whether it wasbecause they saw us at a show or
a friend played them for us.
There was an organic way thatthey found our band and I think
that's really, really cool.
I'm really grateful that we'vegone this long in our career and
have survived without thosereally strong pillars like radio
and playlisting.
But I'm really excited to seewhat that does for us, because I

(01:20:34):
think right now the goal isjust to spread our music to
people that maybe otherwisewould never hear of us, and
radio and playlists are such abig part of that, for sure, yeah
, yeah, and you're about to headout on a long tour as well.

You're gonna get to go and play these tracks for
old fans, new fans.

A lot of new fans.
I mean, we're touring with BadOlmans and they're just like a
huge, huge rock band now and I'mso proud of them because they
are just a group of really greatguys.
But I mean, we toured with thema long time ago and it's just

(01:21:17):
really.
I think that's kind of like thecircle of life in the music
business.
You know, you see a bandopening a tour that you're on
and then next thing you knowyou're playing under them and
watching them do this reallyamazing thing.
And it feels like to me likethey're an era right now, like
they're a part of a reallyawesome era in music and it's

(01:21:42):
just like we're honored to be apart of that and we're honored
for them to bring us to theircommunity of people and let us
play our music for theircommunity of people.
It does feel like the circle oflife a bit, you know, yeah.

I mean, that's beautiful.
I do love that.
And do you know where they'rebased out of or what they
consider their base, I'm notsure like I wanna say Texas yeah
, I want to also.

That's why I brought that up.
I wanna say Texas.
But I wanna say Texas cause Ibelieve they're.
I feel like they're drummersfrom Texas, but I'm not entirely
sure, I couldn't say for sure.
But yeah, I feel like it'seither Texas or somewhere.

(01:22:29):
It's like somewhere in theSouth.

Yeah, I asked because I feel like it was Texas
, but I'm from Dallas.

They're probably from Finland or something.

Yeah, on that note, I'm trying to figure out.
I've seen you guys play livebefore, but it was whenever I
was younger.
Do you know?
Can you remember the times thatyou went through Dallas so?

Dallas is.
Usually we play like the houseof blues, but then we'd play
like San Antonio.
We'd play like the white rabbitwas a big one, but Dallas.
I feel like there's anothervenue.
We played in Dallas.
That was pretty big and it waspretty cool.
But the funny thing is is likeafter all this time a lot of the

(01:23:18):
venues start to look the same,but I wanna say you guys were on
Warp Tour.
Yeah, so Warp Tour obviously isoutside, but I don't.

I don't, it would have been a fair park,
yeah yeah, so we've done DallasWarp Tour three times yeah
definitely saw you guys on WarpTour in Dallas.
Did you ever play the PlanoCenter?
Cause that was kind of a placethat, like we have played the
Plano Center, yes, popped off alot of that era.

If you say the name, I'll be like I'll know it
when I hear it.
So, yes, we have played thePlano Center.
You know what's really good atthis is my guitar player, Brent.
Like he'll tell you what colorthe walls are in a venue.
I swear it's and I'll walk in.
I'll be like Brent, have weplayed the here?
He's like yeah, we have.
You don't remember that?
One time we played here andthen we got chicken fingers from
the place down the street andthen we went and got a coffee

(01:24:02):
from.
I'm just like dude, how are youdoing this?
It's?
If I could have one superpower,I would want that met.
I would want my guitar playerbrand's memory for music venues
and stuff like that.
Yeah, wow, fuck, flying, yeah,just give me the memory, just
the memory.
I just want the memories.
That's funny.

Yeah, so yeah, that would have been a Mike
Seimer event, right, and I meanplaying the center kind of
popped off, a.
I mean that was like theepicenter of the Dallas, like
hardcore, metal core,post-hardcore, whatever it
seemed South by.
So what Dallas?

Yeah, also Mike, I mean, yeah, I mean Mike is.
He's supported our band for along time, so he's always been
bringing us to that, thosefestivals.
And yeah, spoiler, we'reactually going to be playing
that festival again.
It's actually what's funny?
We do the bad omen's tour atEnzin Dallas on the 13th of
October.

(01:25:01):
The 14th of October we play itSouth by.
So what?

In Dallas yeah.

Okay, yeah, so we'll be playing that for the
first time in like five, sixyears or something like that.

Yeah, I mean, I have to go back to Dallas.

Yeah, walk down memory lane, that sounds fun.

Yeah, okay, yeah , you can catch two shows I can
catch, two yeah and Vegas, twofor the price of one.

I want to do Vegas .
You did not want to do Vegas.
Vegas is, oh my God.
Yeah, vegas is Vegas.
Dude, vegas is Vegas.
That's all I'm going to say oncamera.
Okay, vegas is Vegas.
Vegas is Vegas Actually.
Come to Vegas.
Come to Vegas, just don't beprepared to come back home

(01:25:43):
Period, or come back home thesame.

So let's talk a little bit about Shiby's.
I want to understand.
Obviously this project cameabout because you wanted to
create about that outside of ICstars.
But tell me something aboutthat.

Well, I've always been, I've always had a heavy
hand in like the electronicaspects of our music.
You know, and this was just kindof a way to.
I mean, really, shiby startedbecause there was a lot of songs
I wrote for the band that justdidn't necessarily work and it

(01:26:23):
was always really heartbreakingfor me because I loved these
songs, but they just, you know,maybe they didn't work for what
we were going for for a record,or maybe, I mean, our band will
write like 25, 30 songs for analbum and only 12 of them will
make it.
So we're bound to have a fewsongs that maybe need to see the

(01:26:45):
light of day, you know, butwon't with IC stars.
So this was kind of originallythat that was the idea is that I
really wanted to make sure thatanything I wrote always had an
opportunity to see the light ofday.
I think that's really important, was really important for me as
far as, like mentally, you know, staying positive and you know,

(01:27:09):
like, I guess, confrontationalmoments in the studio, like if a
song's not going to be on therecord, at least I can know in
my heart that, okay, well, maybethis isn't the right home for
it, but it will be, we will finda home.

Yeah, I can a little spoiler.
I'm mixing this and, I think,mastering it.

That's what we're talking about, yeah, mixing and
mastering, yeah, maybe, yeah, no, yeah, but I can attest to.

Devin had me bring his vocals down on this
track.
He was like dude it's about Iwant this to be more about the
music.
I was like Devin, but you havea beautiful voice, a voice of an
angel.

Yeah, I appreciate it.
I think I actually deleted thefiles, like the vocal file, like
your vocals you just deletedthe session totally no, just
your vocals.

I mean you told me a turn down, yeah, I say just
like, fuck these vocals.

Yeah, I mean it's tough for me because the second
I start singing it feels likeall eyes on me and like that's
not really what I want Shibiesto be about.
I really love when I go.
I'm a huge like like tech houseguy.

(01:28:17):
I've been going to DetroitMovement Festival since it was
free and I feel like I've myinspiration of electronic
artists are not based on, likenecessarily vocals.
I love when I'm listening to aDJ and their set from front to

(01:28:40):
back is like telling the storywithout needing to have words.
You know what I'm saying and soI'm kind of wrestling two
different sides of what inspiresme, because I also really love
Rufus Do Soul and have beenlistening to them forever and I

(01:29:03):
think they were the first houseartists that I heard that I
really loved the fact that theyhad vocals right there all the
time, and so I'm trying to findthis.
I think I'm definitely stillsoul searching with that project
and I think that's part of thefun.
You know I'm trying to have funtaking on new identities while
I'm creating songs and figuringout what this project could be,

(01:29:24):
but I think overall it's.
I just don't want it to alwaysbe about my vocals, you know,
but in the song that you'reparticularly mixing, I think the
dilemma for me was that it themusic is.
I love the music in that songand so my vocals just kind of

(01:29:45):
pull you away a little bit fromit.
And so that's part of thediscovery process for me right
now, because I'm trying tofigure out, you know, when is
the right time to be involved asa singer and what time is the
right time to be involved as aproducer, and you know.
So it's definitely a little bitof an identity crisis, but I'm

(01:30:07):
really enjoying it though, youknow.
I'm really enjoying like thecrisis I'm having right now of
just like loving the music andalso loving the vocals and
figuring out which one deservesto be the highlight, you know.

Yeah, I mean that's a very storytelling song
and also just like an incrediblypowerful hook that comes in
like the main drop is just somassive.
It's like not massive in like Idon't know, not like a dubstep
drop, way Like where it's likeoh my God, it's like it just

(01:30:40):
feels larger than life Right,and so I understand you know,
how you want to storytelling.
If you have that vocal frontand center, it takes you out of
the world of the song Like ittotally makes sense.

Yeah, it's just so weird Cause, like when I go to
shows and I'm experiencing likehouse music or, you know, techno
, when vocals come in it kind ofpulls me out, you know.
So it is very much an identitycrisis I'm having right now
because but I guess it alldepends on who you're, you know,

(01:31:17):
seeing, like you know, I was atmovement last weekend and I was
actually really impressed by acouple artists for different
reasons, right.
So I saw Carabou and I reallyloved there was vocals, but it
was the only like full band setI think that they had that

(01:31:39):
weekend.
The rest is just DJs, you know,and there's a couple of singers
, of course, but and I could bewrong about that, but that's,
that was my experience.
But then I saw Zed's dead and Iwasn't exactly sure how I was
going to feel about their set inthat environment.
You know, movement is such a,you know, it's roots are, you

(01:32:02):
know, specific, but I reallyloved Zed's dead set and front
to back it was, you know it tolda story, but there wasn't.
Not every song had vocals andwhen songs came in that had
vocals, I found myself a littledisengaged.
And so, you know, as asongwriter, I love vocals, and

(01:32:27):
as a producer, I even lovevocals, but I think, like when
I'm thinking of it as someonewho attends these shows, I don't
, so it's like this reallyconflicting thing I'm dealing
with with this project.

Well, I mean I have to ask them because I know
that you really love Skrillexset.
I mean I fucking love him.

Yeah, his set was amazing at movement, but it's
very generally, very heavy onvocals.
It is, yeah, and that's what Iwas actually getting to, that
because then I saw that set andthat set was an incredible set.
I mean he's, you know, he'sreally great at curating sets,
especially for movement.
I mean he's been coming tomovement with all of his

(01:33:08):
projects for a while, you know.
So he had a really good way ofkind of knowing you know his
audience and I mean I'm sure heknows his audience anywhere he
goes.
But I could tell at movement hedefinitely did and but yeah,
there was a lot of vocals, but Ididn't mind it as much, you
know.
And so I think that but he'salso was playing, you know, a

(01:33:30):
different style.
You know it wasn't really, Imean, he was playing house, but
you know there was a lot ofdubstep involved and I feel like
and there's a lot of room forvocals and that, you know,
whereas house music sometimesthere is and sometimes there
isn't.
It all depends on the song.
But in that particular songwe're working on together, it
feels to me and I feel likewe're having an inside

(01:33:51):
conversation because no one'sheard this song yet.
But in this particular song Iused a lot of analog, since I
used, you know, my Prophet 6 andI used, you know, one of my
MOOGs and it's there's suchbeautiful sounds.
I just want them to be thehighlight.
So it's a little bit of like.

(01:34:11):
There's a little bit of soulsearching happening, but, like I
said, I'm enjoying this.
I'm actually enjoying theidentity crisis.
I think that's what thisproject is supposed to be.
It's I'm discovering new partsof myself, you know.

Yeah, so I want to pivot now to an existential
question maybe, or a biggerquestion of what does success
mean to you?

Well, it's so funny, you know this, but I did
like a tobacco healing ceremonylast week and he was talking.
We were talking a lot aboutjust, you know, fulfillment and

(01:35:03):
joy, and I feel like in thatmoment I kind of realized that
success to me is finding as muchfulfillment and joy on a daily,
weekly, monthly basis as youpossibly can, and I don't really
know that it's more complicatedthan that.
You know, it's like invitingthe things in your life that

(01:35:27):
bring you joy and fulfillment asmuch as you can and also
recognizing when something isn't.
You know it's.
I think a lot of times weignore those omens and those
signs of the things that arereally getting in the way of our
joy and our overall fulfillmentin life.
And I think if you can isolatethose things and try to remove

(01:35:52):
as many of those things aspossible to make room for other
things that might help upliftyou, is my definition of success
.
I feel like that's what makes aday feel successful for me, if
I look back and I'm like Ireally enjoyed today, I really
felt fulfilled today.
You know so and I'm.

(01:36:14):
You know, a lot of times whenyou hear success, you think of
people, think of money and theythink of financial success, they
think of their career and I'vehad to like let go of that a lot
because there's not a lot ofmoney in music and there is now
more than there was back when Iwas starting.

(01:36:36):
But when I was starting thingslooked really successful, but
financially they weren't verysuccessful and that was a very
tough for me at a young age,especially with all my friends
going to college, people gettingjobs through my twenties,
people buying homes.
It was a long time before I didany of that, before I bought a

(01:37:01):
home or, you know, had my ownplace, and you know what I mean.
There was just a lot offinancial struggle that to me,
didn't represent success.
So I had to redefine the wordaltogether and because the one
thing I didn't know is I wasreally enjoying myself and I

(01:37:23):
felt really fulfilled.
I felt so fulfilled when I wassharing a house with four dudes,
like you know, and all we weredoing was making music.
It's like like it was the dogdays, you know I mean we were,
we didn't, we were eating TacoBell every night, and you know
what I mean Like we weren'tmaking a lot of money, but I

(01:37:44):
felt so successful, I felt sofulfilled and had so much joy.
So, and then, you know, like,fast forwarding to this period
in my life, I feel like, notthat those days are gone, but as
we kind of transition and Imoved out of that house and I

(01:38:08):
moved out here, there has been awhole nother level of trying to
discover that joy and thatfulfillment and what in this,
you know, new city, where thatcomes from, where I pull that
from, you know, because it's,it's to me, it's paramount, and

(01:38:31):
why a place feels like home, youknow.
So, yeah, I think, if, if, ifsomeone's looking at their life
and they're thinking, well, am Isuccessful?
It's like, well, you just gotto ask yourself are you, are you
finding joy and fulfillment?
And it doesn't have to be everyday, but most of the week.
Are you finding joy andfulfillment?

(01:38:52):
And if you're not, to me thatis something that needs to be
isolated and figured out.
You know, it's not the amountof money in your bank account,
and I know that sounds a littlecliche to say, but you know, at
the peak, some of the peaks ofmy career, I've had $20 in my
bank account, you know.
And but it doesn't mean Ididn't feel successful and

(01:39:17):
doesn't mean I didn't feel joyor fulfillment, you know so.
So, yeah, I think that would be.
I think that's where I would goto start if you're trying to be
successful.
You know, talking about success,fulfillment and joy, it's like
there's something reallysuccessful about speaking your

(01:39:37):
truth out loud regularly in yourlife, because the hard truths,
if we speak them out loud, itallows the universe to work on
that truth with you you knowwhat I mean and help you figure
things out.
And that was one thing thatthey said in that ceremony that
really stuck with me and I'vebeen really.

(01:39:57):
I always feel like I'm a verytruthful.
I can't, I'm not really like Idon't have a poker face, like I
kind of wear my heart on mysleeve, but I have been working
on speaking the hard truths outloud more often and I feel like
it's brought me a lot offulfillment and has kind of been

(01:40:20):
a, even just in this last week.
I feel like it's helped me,feel like the universe is on my
side and helping me kind of.
I now have I'm inviting theuniverse to help me figure this
thing out you know, whereaskeeping it suppressed, keeping
it inside, is really kind of Idon't.

(01:40:41):
I think it's you're harboring it, then you know.

Yeah, so we talked about this at one point
and I'm very much activelyworking on that.
It's very tough to start, butI'm sure that it's slightly less
tough whenever you begin toimplement it into your life.

Yeah, I think it's just like anything you know.
It's like if you practicesomething, like even if you and
even the negative things youknow and it's actually me and
Yazzy talk about this a lot butlike you know, stress like if
you practice being stressed outall the time, you're going to
get really good at it, you know.
And so this is all just kind ofpart of fine-tuning the things

(01:41:23):
you practice on a daily basis.

Yeah, I love that.
I'm going to talk more aboutthat off camera, because so many
things to talk about there.
I would like to ask, now we'vetalked about kind of your story
from beginning till now.
I want people who are listeningand viewing this to be able to
walk away with some I guesslet's call them bullet points of

(01:41:48):
what you think that made yousuccessful.
So not what success meansanymore, but what are some of
the things that people couldimplement into their life to
become more successful, the waythat you have oh well, in these

(01:42:09):
moments I have imposter syndrome, because it's hard to believe
that I am where I am today.

You know, a lot of the time we got to tip our hats
to luck, you know, on timing,but I think that at this point
I've realized that it's gettingthe spark.
Having a spark in your creativeendeavors is not really
necessarily the hard part,because I think there is a

(01:42:38):
little bit of luck and a littlebit of timing that happens with
the spark, but it's how you keepthe flame lit.
You know, and for me, like I amincredibly, incredibly involved
in everything I do, but I thinkthat what has really helped me

(01:42:59):
succeed is inviting people in toand letting go of certain
things and letting people helpyou and letting people guide you
and always being, you know, astudent.
You know, I'm going back to theceremony because the shaman

(01:43:21):
said you cannot be a mentorwithout being a mentee, and I
feel that that resonated with meso much.
And I know you feel this too,because in what we do, you
always have to be a student, youalways have to be willing to
learn and you always have to beopen to inspiration and feeling

(01:43:41):
inspired.
It's a big part of what we do,you know.
And once you think you knoweverything, that level of
inspiration I feel like dwindlesand you're going to find
yourself kind of in quicksand,you know, and you're going to
it's.
You know that's when you becomeyour own worst enemy and I feel
like my whole career I've beenpretty good at allowing myself

(01:44:07):
to.
I've never thought I was thebest at what I do.
I've never thought I was, likeyou know, the greatest of all
time.
You know, I've always felt likeI'm lucky to be working with
the people I'm working with.
I'm lucky to be learning thingsfrom all of these people that
are, you know, bringinginformation from a different

(01:44:28):
walk of life, you know.
So I don't know that there'sever going to be a formula to
success or to being a successfulmusician, but I think that if
you stay open-minded and youinvite people in, you continue
to accept yourself as a student,you know, allow yourself to be

(01:44:49):
a teacher in moments, but knowwhen you're a student, know when
you're being a student, youknow, and you know allowing
yourself to be inspired by thepeople around you.
It doesn't matter if they're abigger artist than you or not
Like can't tell you how manyartists were not as big as me,
surpassed me and it was and it's, you know, and I seen that in

(01:45:14):
them when they were not, youknow, when they were not here.
They were here and they had itwhen they were here and you knew
it when you saw it.
It's like you never know who'sgoing to go on to do really big
things.
So allow yourself to be astudent.
Allow yourself to always learnfrom people.
It doesn't matter if they'reabove or below you.
I don't even know what thatmeans, but it's like you know.

(01:45:35):
Allow yourself to learn fromeveryone around you.
You know, I don't care ifthey're the opening band or the
headlining band.
It's like everyone's gotsomething to say, everyone's got
something.
Everyone knows something youdon't, and they can also learn
something from you.
You got to let that two-waystreet exist, you know.
So I think I don't know if thatmakes any sense, I don't know
if I'm just going on a tangent,but I feel like it's really the

(01:46:01):
biggest piece of advice I couldgive someone who's trying to,
you know, really get involved inany facet of music, you know,
is just always remaining open,always being a student, you know
, but giving yourself credit.
Allow yourself to be a mentorwhen you feel like you could
teach something.
But when you feel likesomeone's trying to teach you
something, don't resist it.
Don't let that ego put a wallbetween you and this person

(01:46:24):
who's trying to show yousomething.
You know, I love that.

I really feel that from you.
I mean our entire relationship.
I've felt that from you, Likethat you are very open to
whatever people have to say.
You know, if they have somekind of advice, you're open,
You're also open to givingfeedback, which is just, which
is awesome.
There's this thing called flowstate you know, and it's where

(01:46:51):
time doesn't exist.
Creation just kind of flows outof you in any way shape or form
that you're creating, buteverything else disappears and
it's just you and the work andwhatever comes out just feels
effortless.
And we've talked about thisbefore how just time just
disappears.
Do you have any advice forpeople on how to get into that

(01:47:15):
state Easy, more easily, morequickly, just more effortlessly,
I suppose?

Yeah, I mean, I have, I think, the biggest.
You know me like.
You've been to my home studioand it's like for me, I need
everything to work just the wayI expect it to work when I go in
the studio and it's a big partof how I get in that flow state.
If something happensunexpectedly and it pulls me out

(01:47:48):
, it's very disruptive to youknow, things flowing like water
in the studio.
You know it's like.
So.
I always encourage peoplebecause you don't need to have.
You know, you don't need tospend a million dollars to have
a place that you can createmagic in.
You know, but my only advice isspend a hundred dollars to make

(01:48:11):
it as efficient as it possiblycan.
You know, make sure thateverything in your studio is
accessible.
You know, like at yourfingertips, feeling inspired and
wanting to be there.
To me is such a big part ofgetting in that flow state a
little bit more easily, as youput it.
You know it's like.
So allowing yourself to takethose days to go out, experience

(01:48:35):
music, feel inspired, you knowit's all brings me back to being
a student.
You know, when you go to a show, you're now in someone else's
classroom.
You know you're watchingsomeone else.
You're, you know in someoneelse's.
You're in their world.
Now gathering seeds, yeahhilariously that.

It's hilarious that Yazzy looks at it as such a
peaceful and beautiful thingcollecting seeds, and now you're
going to go back and let themgrow.
I think about the exact samething whenever I go to a live
show.
I feel very inspired.
I feel like I'm a lightning rodand I'm absorbing energy or
electricity.
And then I go into the studioas a sith lord or some shit and

(01:49:19):
I'm blasting the fucking, thelightning back out of my fingers
into the kitchen Love, thedichotomy between the two.

I'm not much more angry.
No, I mean, I think I'm more inyour world.
For sure, you know lightsaberis out.

Absolutely fucking shit up.
She's planting things or we'redestroying them.
Yes, I love that, yeah.

This is a lot about us?

Yeah, damn Okay.
So the final question I havethat I want to ask you maybe you
want to.
You know, bring some stuff up.
The the last thing that's on mymind is you're very into health
and I kind of want to know.
I want to know, and I thinkthat people listening and

(01:50:03):
watching would love to know,some things that they can
implement into maybe their lifeor their routine or something
that can help them just be alittle more healthy.
Cause I do think that that alsohas to.
That plays a huge factor, atleast for me, seeing how much
you work on, how much you'rejuggling.
If you didn't care about yourhealth and fitness I don't think

(01:50:25):
you'd be able to juggle as muchas you do as efficiently, as
you do.

Well, yeah, I mean , health and fitness to me is
very selfish.
You know, like everything I dois self-serving, you know, and
it's all mental.
It's like mental health is soimportant to me and I feel like
everything I've implemented justhelps me mentally on a day to
day basis.
You know, luckily, those thingsare.

(01:50:52):
You know health, like they're,they are healthy.
You know things like exercise.
I think exercise is soimportant and we talk about it
all the time.
Everyone's talking about it.
You know there's so manydifferent avenues and
information.
You know avenues of informationthat are flowing on the
internet where you can, you know, hear people talking about the

(01:51:13):
health benefits of exercisingand all of its.
You know it, just all of its.
Um, it's like you know all thepositive benefits that your body
gets from it.
But for me it's all mental.
You know, I think that lack ofexercise for me it means that my
mental health could go downhill, and so I don't compromise

(01:51:37):
exercise, even with a brokenwrist, you know, I'm still, you
know, going and walking on thestairmaster and doing things
that are, you know, getting myheart rate up, because it's
going to help me mentallythroughout the week, you know,
and I think that it goes thesame with um.
I mean, I'm a big cold plungerand you know that I feel like
that is all about mental health,even though there's all sorts

(01:52:00):
of other health benefits of coldplunging, reducing inflammation
and stuff like that.
For me it's all mental.
It just really helps me and mymental health, you know.
So I found all these avenuesand now I've just kind of became
I've become an addict.
You know, I've anything that Ithink could help my mental
health.
I'm trying to implement it intomy day to day life.

(01:52:22):
You know I'm big mouth breatherat night, so I wear hostage
table or my mouth when I sleep,baby, and it helps.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So you know that for me, goodsleep means, you know, good
mental health, you know.
And so better sleep meansbetter mental health.
I mean, I've always been goodat sleeping, but this has just
improved that.

(01:52:42):
You know I'm eating healthy.
Same thing.
You know, like I do, I loveeating shitty food.
We just talked about Taco Bell.
You know big, big Taco Bell guyover here.
I love Taco Bell, but is eatingTaco Bell every day going to
help me mentally?
Not really, you know.

(01:53:03):
I think that eating healthymakes me feel healthy, which
makes me feel mentally balanced,you know so, yeah, I mean.
So all that to be said, like Ithink a healthy mind is a
healthy life, you know, sothey're very synonymous for me,
yeah well, your mind is yourbody.

A lot of people forget that, but or they talk
about them as two separatethings.
But your mind is your body.
Your mind controls your body.
If your mental health is bad,your body will suffer totally,
and so that's a huge thing.
I'm glad that you brought thatup without being said Devin dude
, thank you so much for comingon here.

Of course, man, thanks for having me.
I know we've been talking aboutthis for a long time and I
think that you're doing a reallycool thing by inviting people
in this little safe space you'vecreated, and it really does
feel I feel comfortable talkingabout some very private things
here.
So I appreciate you inviting meand, you know, letting me be a

(01:54:08):
part of this new venture ofyours.

Of course.
Thanks for sharing man, ofcourse, all right.
So now that you've listened tothis episode, devin is such a
good buddy of mine, so you knowwe had a lot of fun talking
about I guess, some inside jokesand inside stuff that only him

(01:54:31):
and I know that you got towitness but really just like
have a great talk with somebodywho's been around for so long
and seen so many bands come inand out, new ways of making
music come in, old ways out.
You know just somebody who'sbeen there, but somebody who
just also is very wise and hasgreat feedback and information

(01:54:53):
for us to learn.
So one of the things that Iwrote down that I really loved
about this episode is again howimportant it is to cultivate a
strong local scene around yourmusic.
I say again because whenever Italk to Bardo same thing with
Beach School Dropout the localscene matters so much.

(01:55:14):
So whenever bands would comethrough Michigan, they would
want icy stars on the billbecause they could bring out
such a huge local crowd and Istill think that that's
underutilized now.
If you're able to cultivatefans locally and you can bring
them out to a show, you're goingto be put on a bill as an
opener in that area, because youcan pack out a stage or you can

(01:55:38):
pack out a venue and I thinkthat that's underutilized.
So really cultivate a localscene.
I loved talking about Devonside,project Shy Beast and the
importance of just havinganother creative avenue for your
ideas, that you don't have totalk with your band members and

(01:55:59):
you don't have to like runthrough filters, you can just do
it.
And, yes, of course, you do getfeedback.
But having a creative outletwhere you can put your ideas
that are not in a band is so, soimportant.
So if you're listening to thisand you've been thinking about
doing that, do it.

(01:56:20):
Like, what do you have to lose,right?
I loved whenever he talkedabout speaking the hard truths
out loud.
It will allow for more joy inyour life because you're not
holding things in, you're justbeing uniquely you.
It will help guide your tribe,your people, those who resonate

(01:56:41):
with your truth to you and thosewho just don't really love what
you stand for away from you and, honestly, that's just how you
gather people around you whowill elevate you, will support
your ideas because they're inline with them.

(01:57:01):
I think that was just hugelyimportant, one of my very
favorite things he said though Ithink this is the biggest
takeaway is create a space, nomatter what the craft is that
you make music or art oranything.
If you're a clothing designer,make sure that the studio or the

(01:57:23):
workspace that you work in isvery conducive of any idea that
you have.
You can reach and grab thething.
You know where it's at.
Things aren't cluttered.
If you have a creative idea,you're able to execute it
immediately, because it allowsyou to stay in the flow of
creativity.
If you're like going to lookfor a thing or you have to

(01:57:48):
unplug something, to plugsomething else in, and then you
have to set it up, maybe thatcreative spark or that idea is
lost because you can'tinstantaneously be able to act
on it.
So just create a spaceconducive of creating art.
Lastly, I will say that this isone of the reasons that I

(01:58:09):
created this podcast, but justdropping your ego and allowing
people who maybe are moreestablished or less established
than you give you feedback andyou learn something from those
people, without an ego, withjust open ears, will allow you

(01:58:33):
to go so much further in life.
I can remember so many timeswhen I was shut off to
collaboration or creativity fromsomebody else or feedback or
anything from somebody who quoteunquote was less established or
somebody who was older and Ithought like, oh, they're not in
touch with what's going on now.
Those times in my life aredefinitely ones that I was

(01:58:59):
growing at such a slower pacethan whenever I was open and
willing to accept feedback.
That doesn't mean that youalways have to listen to it, but
just being open to it, I think,will always put you ahead of
those who are closed off In viceversa.
Just talking about this, in mypodcast I talked to guests who I

(01:59:25):
think, have reached a levelthat all of us can learn from,
and I'm here to just listen andlearn from what they have to say
, and I don't need to agree witheverything or implement
everything that they say into mylife, but I'm here to listen.
I also think that this podcastis a platform for the other side
, where I can give back.
I've been doing this for awhile and I have learned so many

(01:59:48):
things, the hard way and theeasy way and from all different
walks of life, and I'm here tonot hold that to myself and
gatekeep it.
I'm here to spread knowledge.
I think receiving and givingknowledge is one of the ways
that you can really reallyfurther your career, your life,

(02:00:09):
your everything, and wheneverDevon talked about that, I just
thought that was really specialand I needed to put in this end
key takeaway kind of moment.
Thanks for listening to theGrounds for Success podcast.
I want to thank all of thepeople who work on this podcast
and help me out.
My team is everything to me,and without them I couldn't

(02:00:31):
bring these to you every singleweek, I couldn't post on social
media with all the clips that wehave, and so I thank you guys
so much.
I want to also thank all of myclients on the Mixing and
Mastering side, because withoutyou, I could not have Grounds
for Success.
So thank you so much.
If you're enjoying the Groundsfor Success podcast, please

(02:00:52):
follow, like and subscribe onwhichever platform you're
listening or watching on.
It helps us out a ton and Iwant to keep getting this
content to you in whichever wayyou listen or watch.

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