Jack Griffo: The Thundermans Return, Funny Auditions, Kid Baron, and The Ups and Downs of Hollywood

Episode Transcript
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Austin Seltzer (00:01):
Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast.
I'm your host, austin Siltzer.
Together we'll unveil the keysto success in the music industry
.
Join me as I explore my guest'slife stories and experiences to
uncover practical insights tohelp you align with your goals
more effectively.
Hey coffee drinkers, welcome tothe Grounds for Success podcast

(00:24):
.
I'm Austin Siltzer and I'm amixing and mastering engineer
with over 10 years of experiencein the music business.
Today on the show we have JackRiffo.
Jack is best known for hisleading role in the TV show the
Thundermins.
On Nickelodeon he plays MaxThunderman and you know, today

(00:46):
we're going to talk about notonly acting but also his music
career, where he's the frontmanof Kid Baron.
Jack has won several Kid'sChoice awards and he's also been
nominated for some teen awardsfor his role as Max.
I met Jack while I wasproducing a film called Don't

(01:06):
Log Off, directed by the BearBrothers.
Sterling Bowman is the one whobrought me on to that, and I got
to meet Jack through thisexperience, where he's playing
one of the lead roles of thisfilm.
Can't wait for you guys to seeit one day.
In this episode we're going tocover so many things, so many
like wise little nuggets, but acouple of little highlights that
we're going to talk about ishow did Jack get the audition

(01:30):
for the pilot in the Thundermins?
I think that this is a reallycool story and it shows a lot of
insight on maybe how you, aseither an actor or some other
creative, can use perseveranceand just being in the right
place to get a job, and then, ofcourse, you have to deliver
with talent.
We hear how Jack met many ofhis friends, like Ariel Winter,

(01:52):
luke Binward, sterling Bowmanand I got to know all of them on
Don't Log Off, but we learnabout how they all kind of came
up together and were in a friendcircle.
We also learn about how Jackjust doesn't post everything
going on in his world on socialmedia, kind of like why he
distances himself from that.
But we learn how he's going touse his band, kid Baron, to

(02:15):
really spread like who he iswith his fans and those around
the world.
Ultimately, we hear from someonewho already has reached great
success.
I mean, the Thundermins is ahuge show, but how does somebody
like that continue to persevere, to become the best version of

(02:37):
themselves, like how doessomebody like that continue to
try and achieve more and stillbe authentic to himself.
I think that that's a beautifullesson from this episode and I
can't wait for you to hear it.
Alright, let's get caffeinatedmy brother and caffeine Dude,
this is really delicious.
Hell yeah.

Jack Griffo (02:55):
Cheers, cheers.
I mean, can you do that withoutalcohol?

There's alcohol in it?
There's not much.

I've heard it's like bad to cheers without
alcohol.

Is it?

Superstition, I mean you must be into the
superstitious.
I mean, look at this place.

Yeah, this place definitely looks like I am deep
into superstition.
I actually wear the same youknow pair of socks every single
time that I do a podcast.

I thought you were about to say every day.
I was like that's cool.

That would be so rank.
Yeah, holy crap.
No, but is that actually athing they are not supposed to?
Cheers without alcohol.

It is a thing, yeah .
Dude whatever, bad luck thatbrings.

I have been doing it forever.

No wonder, look, none of this place is haunted
yeah.

People say that they see a phantom in that
picture up there.

Get out of here bro , get out of here.
I just saw it up there yeah.

You did that.

I wish that I could be in to that.
You did that.
Oh yeah, I'm like no way.

There's a remote , you know.

You got me for a second.
I thought there was not aphantom there.
I mean, there is not now, butit's you, it's Austin, it is Now
.
Do you do the check?
When you have a beer?
Do you check it on?

Oh yeah, yeah, you do that, yeah, definitely.

I only picked that up like a few years ago and I'm
26.
So I feel like I was a littlelate to the game.
Everyone's like checking theirdrink.
I'm like, what are you doing?

Well, especially with a shot.
If you don't do that with ashot, that's bad luck.

I don't really take shots, I'm such a pussy.

I don't really either, but I've taken more than
you know I probably should.
I'm taking a whole lot of shots.

I don't know.
It feels great but it's so bad,it tastes so bad and it's not
worth it to me.
I mean, like I guess the past10 years, like I would much
rather get a little high thandrink because I feel like it
just the next day is better.

(05:06):
I like the inebriation better.
Yeah, I'm not the biggestdrinker.

Yeah, and I think that's awesome.
Honestly, I love smoking.
I would say that I don't smokea ton, but I don't know how you
quantify that.

Like I'll right.

Like I legitimately will take a hit
because I feel like it hits memore or harder than other people
.
And then I'll play, like rightnow I'm playing Diablo 4.
I'm just having a fucking blastwith it, so I'll mix.
You know, I'll be working on atrack and then, whenever I'm
printing it down which for thoselistening just means like I'm
taking out of my computer andputting on a dropbox or whatever

(05:47):
so we can listen on the phoneor speakers and then I'll go up
and I'll play some Diablo, I'llkick some shit out of demons and
but, not, and then I'll go back.

But when I came here when I was 13 and never
smoked, you know which a lot ofpeople at 13 haven't smoked, but
that changed very quickly.
You know, when I got to knowpeople and you know kids,
teenagers, running around likethey're smoking weed you know,
right and and right away I wasjust like this is what I can't
believe, that I've been missingout on this.

(06:19):
You know, and so for seven,eight years it was.
You know I was sneaking aroundtrying to do it and it created a
whole part of my life that if Icould go back I would.
I would not do truly.
And that's one thing thatpeople ask me.

(06:39):
When you know if you could giveadvice to younger self, I would
say I would never have pickedup weed, to be honest, yeah,
because it's.
It really took away a lot of myambition as a youngster.
Yeah, and now that I'm older, I, you know you can think about

(07:04):
what, what if going back andwhat, what then, but you really,
you really can't.
You know you got to get a lookforward, but when I do, what's
the word?
Not recollect, reminisce,recollect, reminisce, same.

Is it recollect?

On the past, I'm like, wow, I did.
I wasted a lot of time and soit, but it's inspiring now for
the future.
You know what I mean.
I feel like when I turn 25,like it's true what they say
about, like your frontal lobecortex, so what it even what it
is when it develops, like fully,like my decision making, my

(07:40):
worldview, like everything Ithought about everybody and I
think slowing down on the weedcontributed as well but also,
just turning 25, brain developed.
Everything changed last year.
Like I started thinking aboutthe future.
I started thinking about what Ireally want, which is such a big

(08:01):
thing in life.
Like what do you want?
Like I started this lifecoaching thing and the like.
Second session maybe this isthe first session.
He was like five years what doyou want in your life?
Like no, nothing is too big,nothing's too unachievable.
Like what's Jack's perfect life?

(08:21):
And I started doing that to myfriends.
You know I started like lifecoaching my friends when I
started life, like bleeding intomy life, and you know I'm just
a big believer in like whateveryou want in life is, is
available for you, it's real,you can touch it, you can feel
it, you can taste it, literallywhatever you want, even if it's

(08:44):
not happening to you yet.
If you want it and you are, youknow you're doing the proper
things you need to be doing toachieve those goals daily Then
you, like, you are that thingalready.
Like one of my friends just theother day was was telling me he
just turned 23 yesterday and Iwas just telling you I was DJing

(09:09):
his little party at the studio,yeah, and he was telling me
like, oh, like you know, he justgot out of a relationship and
that was a big, you know, burdenoff of his shoulder, as I feel,
and he was saying I just can'twait to to be like, full
functioning, I can't wait tolike, you know, be that guy, you

(09:29):
know, I feel like I'm going to,I'm going to get there and I'm
like just be it, like stoptrying.
Like, when people tell me like,oh, I'll try, I'll try to do
that, it's like there's no try,like it's just the exact same
person.
You know what I'm saying.

I have this conversation all the time.
It's only do and be.

Yes, I, and if you're in that, if you're living
out of there, fruit will beginto pop up in your life.

Yes, Wait, I have to pause this real quick.
We have to go back becausethere was so much information
there but I just spewed.
But but it was great.
There's so many great nuggetsalready.
Dude, I'm I resonate with thatso hard.
There are so many people that Italk to that, yeah, they'll
just ask for like simple advice.
Like you know, how do I make itin the music industry, how do I

(10:20):
become a mix engineer?
How do I?
I'm like you, just do it Likeliterally today start telling
people that you're a mixengineer.

Right.

Or, if you want to be an actor, start telling
people I'm an actor, and, ofcourse, there are so many things
that you have to do to becomethe person that's on screen,
especially something that willresonate with people, and will
be seen by people, but startingtoday, you are that thing.

Yeah.

And now, every single day after, you are that
thing and you are going to putin the time and effort it takes
to become that version of thisthing, but you are already it.

Of course, and it starts with you.
I think a lot of people thatsame friend I was just talking
about who had a birthday we weretalking about our other friend,
our other mutual friend, and wewere like, yeah, he's kind of
struggling right now, like itdoesn't know what his direction
is in the industry and this, allthis kind of stuff.
And I was thinking about him,our mutual friend, and thinking
about his life and his sort ofworldview and I was like I think

(11:21):
his problem is just that thathe's thinking too much about
what his direction is in theindustry instead of what is his
direction as a person.
Like it starts with you.
Like if you start taking careof yourself you know, getting
sleep, being healthy, all thethings that you want your life

(11:41):
to look like on the outside willstart to grow with you.
If you start with you, you knowwhat I mean.
Yeah.

I just know too many people that constantly
smoke and they tell me thethings that they want to do.
Yeah, but I see them not doingit.
So that was great, but I wantto.
I want to ask, because I'vealways been interested in this,
when and how?
When did you get the life coachand how did you find a life
coach and tell us a little bitabout what that's like?

Well, it's a new thing, it's not something I've
been doing for a while, and Igot connected to this company
through a church pastor.
Actually, it's not like aChristian company or anything,
but this guy who used to be apastor at this church here in LA
, I know him, I have arelationship with him and and I

(12:36):
and he basically connected me tothis company and I have this,
this, this kind of young guyhe's like my age but he's super
great and you know it's justtaking inventory and really of
your resources, your goals, waysyou're getting in your own way

(13:01):
and how to get out of your ownway.
You know we're so powerful.
You know like we have, we havefree will, we have these space
suits that we got, you know,however, some years ago, and
we're spinning on a rock inspace paying taxes.
It's, it's, it's quite it's.

(13:23):
It's an anomaly.
Maybe.
I mean, I think there could beother planets out there.
That's how the one thing thathe said was taxes.
I mean it's, it's crazy that wehave this structure, you know,
and we get to be here Totally.
We should talk about schoolfield trip.
There's been a couple of timesalready that I've kind of almost
gotten in there.

Please.
So for those just listening, Ihave a chalkboard always behind
the guest and and they writedown, you know, anything that
they want.
And Jack wrote school fieldtrip and what looks like
definitely the best chalkdrawing you've had so far.
Thank you so much.
It's, it's quite beautiful.

I was telling you.
I'm not even like a visualartist, like I really struggle
drawing and painting.
So it's funny you say that Imean pretty good.
I put my own into it.
What do you?
How do you interpret it?

Field, a school field trip, oh God.

What, what, what does that make you think of?

Hilariously.
The first thing that came upinto my mind was Magic School
Bus.

Little before my time.
I know of it.

Damn it.
I just showed my age, which Ifeel like I'm still stupid.

I could have watched it.
I feel like there's some thingsthat I could have been on, but
I just kind of missed the bus.
But don't, yeah, no punintended, what does it bring up
other than Magic School Bus?

I mean, it brings up really whenever I was
maybe in daycare and we eachweek would have a couple
different activities.
But there was the one dayduring the week that we would go
do a school field trip, andsometimes that would be to a
gymnastics place or sometimesthat would be to this little,

(15:12):
really shitty theater, thisdollar theater, that your feet
would stick to the ground likebecause people spilled soda and
they never cleaned the ground.
But it was so fun because wegot to go out and explore and do
something and there was norules that it was just like.

That's perfect.
It's so fun.
You get to go out and exploreand do things, and there's no
rules.
That's exactly it.
So I just heard this thismorning.
I wish I could take credit forthis.
This is not my idea, but it'sthe first thing that came to my
mind when you told me to writesomething down, because it was
powerful and impactful to me.

(15:50):
This guy was on my Instagramfeed talking about how people
can't get up in the morning.
It's so hard to get out of bed,and it's something that I can
relate to.
Sleep has always been a thingfor me.
I always want to sleep, love tosleep the day way, and it's
just terrible.
It's half your life just in thebed and I get so much more done

(16:13):
when I'm up in the morning, butit's still hard.
At 26, I'm going to be honest,it's still hard.
Sometimes I still sleep till 10, 11, and it's just like, what
am I doing?
And this guy said this on myfeed and I was like wow.
He said people have so muchtrouble getting up in the

(16:33):
morning because of the routine,the mundane-ness, the cycle.
Do you remember what it was likewhen you were in elementary
school, though?
In school and going on a schoolfield trip.
And he said you were up, youwere up out of bed, ready to go,
you were ready to take on theday, you were ready to do

(16:54):
something exciting because therewas something unexpected about
to happen.
And you need to live life likethat unexpected thing is right
around the corner.
Expect the unexpected and youwill start to be able to have
motivation to get up and seizethe day.
I was like wow, like schoolfield trip, that's a cool kind

(17:14):
of motto Because I loved myschool field trips.
I can remember going to theRenaissance Fair and I can
remember going to the ScienceCenter and I love adventure, I
love the unexpected.
And when he said that, I waslike wow, I can see that Getting
out of bed and trusting andknowing that there is adventure

(17:35):
out there for me and I shouldexpect the unexpected and I
should go forth and leave thehouse.
Really, I mean, you got socialmedia and there's a lot of
things, but really it's outthere.
I was just talking to my friend,not my friend, this girl I met
at the birthday party last nightand I was like what's your deal

(17:58):
?
What are you doing here?
And she's like well, I justmoved here a year and a half ago
and I always like asking peoplewhat their dream is and it's
pretty straightforward, but it'slike there's not a reason to be
out here if you don't have adream.
It's too hard, it's tooexpensive, difficult, people can
be bad and you have to have biggoals.

(18:18):
And she was like well, I wantto be in entertainment, I want
to do it all.
I'm like, do you want to be anactress?
And she's like, well, I don'tknow.
And she basically just kind ofculminated it too.
I just want to be independentenough to travel.
And I resonated with that bigtime because, especially here in

(18:43):
America, we like our things theway we like them and we don't
like to deviate, we don't likechange and we don't like to kind
of see any other way of doingthings.
And when you go out and go forth, like we were just talking
about, there is so muchperspective to be gained that is

(19:08):
only going to make you a better, more well-rounded individual.
And that's why I'm so gratefulto Nickelodeon and the show and
the fans, because I did get totravel the world a good amount
as a 16, 17, 18-year-old andthose experiences I've had a lot

(19:34):
of crazy, awesome experiences,but those experiences, still to
this day, are the ones that Ireally accredit.
Is that a word To who I am?
Even those short little trips,whether they are a week or two
weeks, in South America or theUK or Australia, and just seeing

(19:58):
a different way of life andit's obviously similar to ours,
but it is very, very differentthe way that they treat each
other, the food that they eat,their religious practices, the
respect and America is amazing.
We have so much freedom, and Ilove this country, but as well

(20:25):
the freedom also comes at a cost.
We get carried away.
This is an amazing country andI don't know if I would want to
live anywhere else.
To be honest, I haven't spentenough time anywhere else.

Yeah, I've done a whole lot of traveling as well
, and every time that I getoutside the US I gain so much
creativity and new experiencesthat I can channel into things
that I love back here.
Makes you so excited to comeback for work, right, absolutely
yeah.
But yeah, school field tripwhat a nugget.

(21:00):
Whenever you were telling methe story of this guy explaining
why don't we just become closerto our inner child, whenever we
did have field trips, Iimmediately saw myself as a kid
jumping out of bed because Iknew that that day I was going
to like some kind of scienceexhibit thingy or going to that

(21:24):
skating rink.
Dude, I mean, I used to skatelike crazy, like roller-coaster,
no shit, yeah, I mean I wasvery into that, but that was my
favorite field trip.

Yeah.

It was whenever we'd go there, because I just
love that.
I loved little races that wewould do.
I loved randomly you could getpickle juice on ice there and I
loved that.
What?

No way.

Very Dallas thing, Wow.
But whenever you said that Iwas like, damn, I need to think
of my life more that way andjust do little novel things in
the morning.

Yeah.

Can't always be like I meditate and I go to the
gym and whatnot, but then thatbecomes not novel if that's all
you do, exactly.

And it brings up this other point of like this
kind of has to do with like artin any medium and feeling
inspired and being excited foryour day and like how do you get
yourself in that position?
Well, you got to find thethings that make you tick.
You got to find the things thatexcite you and, for example,
like I've only been songwritingfor three years, I loved music.

(22:31):
My whole life Did musicaltheater, growing up in Florida,
even through Thundermins.
I played my guitar and sang allthe time, but I just didn't
have anything to say really andI knew I wasn't really ready.
And now that I'm starting tosongwrite, I love it so much.
It's just transformed my lifecompletely and it's making these

(22:52):
bad experiences in my life intosomething great.
And that's just what I feelthat art is all about now and
inspiring people that they cando the same and hopefully,
putting out something thatresonates and that you know it's
a free gift.
I'm tangening now, I'm goingoff tangent, but I view it as
this gift because it's so hardto you really have to have to

(23:15):
dive deep when you, when you'rewriting stuff about something
painful and and it's a giftbecause it's, it's putting it
out there and it's saying, hey,this is what I went through and
this is a work that that I'vedone and I could just keep it to
myself because it helps me andI listen to it myself.
But I'm going to, I'm going to,I'm going to risk it, I'm going

(23:37):
to put it all out there.
And I don't know you, I don'tknow if you're a good person, if
you're a bad person.
I don't know what you like todo and you're in your, in your
free time.
I don't know your sexualorientation, I don't know your
religious beliefs, I don't knowany of that.
But here it is, it's for you,it's, it's such a pure way of of
living life and expressingyourself and create in creation,

(24:00):
you know, and making somethingthat is for you and for other
people.
I had a really interestingpoint before I went on that
tangent.
I forget what it was anyway.

Yeah, it might pop back up.
But on the point that you justsaid, I think that Early on,
whenever I started music, Ireally really wanted to be an
artist and I learned producingand I was producing my own stuff
and whatnot.
But I have to say that I Ithankfully lived a pretty
privileged In childhood.

(24:34):
I had my parents really tookcare of us.
I didn't really have anyhardships.
I maybe went through somebullying here and there but just
like just like nominal things,and I didn't really have, I
don't know any, I didn't haveexperiences that I think really
resonate with others, and so onmy journey in music, I realized

(24:58):
that I'm not meant to tellstories.
I might.
I am very, very, very good atlifting other people up, and so
mixing really became a thing forme where I took people's genius
and their hardships and theirmessages and I just made them
sound as good as possible tohelp resonate with more people.

That's cool.

I found that out early.
Like I don't wish that I wentthrough difficult things to tell
messages.
I know how tough that is, butI'm just thankful that other
people trust me with theirbabies like that.

That's so cool.
I can't wait to trust you withmy baby bro.
We're about to work together.
I know we are.
It's been a long time coming,and it's funny that you
mentioned that, because I didn'teither really Like I didn't go
through any any crazy shit as akid at all.
I had everything I needed.
You know, my parents werepretty well off and I got to

(25:53):
move here with my mom when I was13.
And you know, we neverstruggled and I thought that,
like you said, I thought Ididn't really have experiences
that related to people with withstruggle, and it kind of was an
insecurity almost and it's likewell, why is that insecurity?
And it's basically that didhappen.
Like that.
It all kind of happened Like asit was meant to, obviously, but

(26:17):
, like I said, I never reallyhad anything happen.
But in 2019, my parents broke upand that was like the thing.
And sometimes it can sound likeI know it doesn't sound like
that big of a deal, but it wasand it was very hard and they
were like my best friends neverthought that I'd have to go
through it I was already 22.

(26:41):
But I wasn't like a true 22.
It's true what they say aboutpeople that get famous as a
young person.
It kind of like stunts yourgrowth.
I've heard that you kind of fora few years you kind of stay
that age that you were when yougot known.

Is it because everything goes into autopilot?

Yeah, because you've like achieved this thing
that's so taboo and that nobodyreally understands unless you
have it, and even if you have it, you don't really understand it
.
It's really weird.
So, 22, not really 22, morelike 18.
And all of a sudden, I had beenwriting for a couple years

(27:29):
after the show ended, in 2017 or2018.
After the Thunderbirds ended, Iwas just writing because I was
beginning to feel like it'ssomething that I wanted to do.
I love music and I was like,well, I should try to do this,
but it was only me, like in myroom, and over two years, I
probably wrote like 20 songsNothing that really like set my

(27:54):
soul on fire, though, that I hadto share and I felt really
passionate about, but they werejust songs, you know.
Yeah, because I loved it.
But now, when this shit wasgoing down and everything was
flipped on its head and my wholeworld of like we were talking
about, of easiness and notreally struggling, all of a

(28:16):
sudden, the person that I lovedthe most my mother was
spiritually dying and I had tocarry that weight for a long
time.
And this hard thing.

(28:36):
I feel like it's a big turningpoint in people's lives when
they go through something that'sunlike anything they've ever
experienced, whether they'regoing to let it consume them and
let it dictate who they are,what happens in their life in a
negative way, or they buck, theydouble down on what they

(29:04):
believe, who they are, howthey're going to make something
good out of it, becauseeverything happens for a reason
and you hear people say that andsometimes it sounds like how,
like, why, like, what reasoncould it be?
You just you got to find thereason, you got to go deep and
you got to let it inspire you tobe better.

(29:25):
You know whether it's in art orjust who you are as a person,
or anything like that.
But basically that happened andTristan, who you know, my
bandmate I had wanted to playmusic with him for a while and
this was in this, you know, 2018, 2019, 2020, even time Happened

(29:49):
with my family.
I'm going through it and I justcalled them up.
I was like I think I need tolike write a song and it was the
first time that that kind offeeling took over me.
And now it's happened a lot, andmaybe it hasn't happened to you
, maybe, like we were saying,like you live a pretty easy life
, nothing really bad.
You haven't really experiencedloss, like and maybe that is you

(30:09):
lost, maybe you haven't reallyin your life Like I'm telling
you like it will, it will happenand it will happen to you out
there.
If it hasn't, and you have tolike be ready and you have to be
vigilant and to be prepared.
If you're going through lifeand kind of saying yes to
everything and kind of reallydon't have your shit together,
it will turn for the worse whenthis thing happens.

(30:31):
So it's all about kind ofpreparing.
Really, I feel like in settingyourself up for success when the
when the storms of life dohappen, you want your house on
the rock, not on the sand.

Love.
That that's a great analogy.
Yeah, Great way to wrap that up.
I have dealt with somehardships, but they're later in
life and also after I chose mypath.
But yeah, I mean, there willalways be things that come and
it is how you whether that storm.
I do want to take this back tothe beginning of, like childhood

(31:10):
and stuff.
But I do have one question,because you were talking about
social media.
I help me understand.
I do not like because clearly Idon't have the platform
visually that you do what thefuck happens whenever you guys
post and I mean you guys, likeanybody like that has a big
following whenever you post.

(31:32):
I just felt this for the firsttime with Kira Kosteren's post.
We did a collab and there'sliterally like thousands of
likes that come in and like mereseconds.
What is that?
Are those bots?
It's the machine.

And I mean I don't know.
I've never paid for followersor streams or any of that, but I
can't speak for other people.
But it's the machine of Disney,Nick Like.

But I mean you get a serious amount of likes on
your posts.
So I'm guessing, like it's,that, but it's Disney, nick.

It's not really I mean it is us, but we were put
on in, you know, 50 countries,you know, and I mean like it's
worldwide, you know, and that'swhy I'm so grateful to the show
and I had the best experiencesof my life on Nickelodeon.
To be honest, like I still knowa bunch of people that I met

(32:26):
and when you do a hundredepisodes of a television show,
like you meet so many people andthey're all great people.
But, yes, this fandom onlineit's from that.
And I think Kira has definitelyworked it more than I have and
kind of built her audience evenmore because she's really good
with it.

She's a social media with.

She's a guru, you know, and I'm just not that way
and I've, you know, I knew thatlike we were just kind of just
talking about a few minutes ago,from the beginning that I kind
of had a weird disconnect withit and I felt like I couldn't
really be myself.
And maybe it's insecurity, youknow, maybe it's not wanting
everyone to really know the realme and that's, you know, I feel

(33:06):
like that's a normal kind ofacceptable place to be, you know
, and I feel like, as I'mgetting older, even doing these
podcasts, like I kind ofresisted when podcasts first
came, because I think it's a bigdeal to talk as your true self,
you know, and how we weretalking about, how my growth I

(33:31):
feel was kind of stunted, beingon television, being a known
person as a youngster.
I felt like I wanted to kind ofgive myself a few years after
the show to really know myselfin a more fulfilling way and

(33:54):
what I really thought aboutthings.
Because back to the growththing and being on the show and
being a known person, your ageis kind of stunted, I feel,
because you're so involved inthis thing.
Like, for me it was the show,for some kids it's music, for
some kids, it's whatever they'redoing, whether it's sports or

(34:16):
whatever, that the rest of theworld becomes not real, you know
, and you don't pay attention tothe news and you don't pay
attention to what's happeningand you're so sucked into this
thing Like for me, it was justauditions, auditions, auditions,
the show, the show.
The show table reads you knowrun-throughs, you know little

(34:38):
things here and there, littlepromos and stuff, and that is
consuming for a child.
And when it was over, when Iwas 20, I realized that I missed
a lot of stuff, like when Iwould have been in high school

(35:00):
and I would have been in collegemeeting people, and I missed a
lot of stuff.
While I gained a whole lot too,a whole lot of perspective that
other kids my age didn't have,I kind of had to start from the
ground up of like who I reallywas, you know, and I'm in this
acting class right now, anthonyMandela Studio, shout out, tony.

(35:20):
He's an amazing coach, amazingteacher, and I'm in this class
and I'm kind of realizing that Iplayed this character for so
long and I'm this kind of cleancut kid who doesn't swear, do

(35:41):
drugs, you know, sleep withgirls, you know.
And that is on me too.
That's not something thatNickelodeon, like, put on me, I
just wanted to fit this mold.
You know, I wanted to be.
I wanted kids to look up to meand I wanted to inspire kids to
be more than the average mundanekid and really go for their

(36:04):
dreams.
You know, max was like thiscrazy smart scientist kid and he
created these gadgets and hewanted to be evil and then he
turned good and he had thiswhole arc and it was really cool
to play a character that reallywent somewhere.
You know, I feel like a lot ofthe roles that I was auditioning
for at the time on Disney orNick, really kind of all the
characters kind of just did onething.

So, if we go all the way back to like your
childhood, I would love tofigure out, you know, what early
life was like, what yourparents were like together, what
their relationship was likethat broke you so hard whenever
they separated.
But what were like the foundingthings going on in your life

(36:47):
that created Young Jack?

It's a good question.
I would say my family likemainly my siblings.
So it's kind of interesting.
I'm like kind of an only childbut I have four half siblings
and they're all older.
So if you know what I mean,like I was the only kid from my
parents but they both had kidsbefore they met each other.
I see my parents met inVirginia Beach and they moved

(37:11):
down to Orlando and that's whereI was born and Orlando is a
great place to grow up.
Man Like so much art, so muchstuff to do as a kid.
You know we have new amusementparks going up every year.
There's just these littlethings all the time and things
being renovated and it's just agreat place.

(37:33):
And my but basically my brotherson my mom's side lived with us
because they lived with theirmom, but my brother and my
sister and my dad's side stayedin Virginia with their mom and
so I was growing up.
I was definitely a little closerto my mom's kids because they
were in the house and they werejust like really fun, funny,

(37:56):
charismatic, artistic kids and Ilove them so much for it.
They just inspired me to sortof not go with the status quo
and think outside the box and,you know, not really carry what
other people thought and begoofy and you know, with just
accents, and you know they weretheater kids, you know.

(38:18):
So basically, there was this,there still is this theater
school.
It's not a theater school, it'sa regular high school called Dr
Phillips in Orlando, butthere's a big theater magnet
program and I just have likethese great memories of going
and watching my older brothersperform, whether it was like

(38:39):
Greece or Oklahoma or you knowwhatever.
How much older are they?
They're like 10 and like 13years older than me, okay, cool.
So when they were in highschool, I was like really little
, like maybe like six or sevenor something like that.

So old enough to be-.

Conscious.

Relentless, for sure.

Oh yeah, and I was old enough to like remember.
You know Some of my earliestmemories for sure.
That really made an impact andthat's why I love it so much,
because when you're that young,you're just downloading
information you know, and whenthere's I'm not filtering it,
it's just like all hitting youwith love, yeah, yeah.
That's why it's so important wewere talking about earlier to

(39:21):
kind of remain in your childlikestate, you know, and you're not
clouded by all this wisdom andknowledge and bullshit.
Anyway, they ended up going toNew York for college and that
was my plan was to do what theydid.
All of a sudden, I was doing,you know, I wanted to start

(39:43):
really early but my parentsdidn't let me.
I did some like print andcommercial work and stuff, but
my parents wanted me to like bea normal kid and like go to
school, and I'm really gratefulfor that, because I feel like a
lot of kids this is a tangent,but I feel like a lot of kids
will come here or like go to NewYork or even in their hometown

(40:04):
and just be consumed with whatwe were talking about earlier,
how it was like the show andauditions, and especially here
in LA, I feel like kids comehere and they really young, like
five, six, seven and I thinkit's just so bad, like to be
honest, like I think they, Ithink being on set and being

(40:29):
even a known person at thatyoung and impressionable of a
time in your life is justdamaging.
I just do so to go back like Iwas going to regular school, but
then at age like 10, 11, I wasreally wanting to do it, to go
in community theater and toperform.
And so I'm like asking myparents and they're letting me,

(40:51):
and I'm doing like classes,acting classes, like film and TV
classes, downtown Orlando,doing a couple productions here
and there.
I took some time out of schoolto do a production of a
Christmas story at our likeprofessional preparatory theater
and that was like my first timeI like got paid to like do
anything.
Wow, at 10?
, 12?
, okay, well, 11, 12.

(41:14):
And I wasn't even the lead, Iwasn't Ralphie, I was Schwartz
who, like you, know, triple dogdared the kid to put his tongue
on the pole, and, and thattotally fits you.
I know right, I know it's funny,I wanted to be Ralphie so bad.
And it was a great production.
I still can remember the lightsand the actors and just fond

(41:37):
memories, you know.
And, like I was saying, I wasdoing classes downtown and that
was where my whole plan changedfrom going to New York and being
, you know, a theater person to,oh, like, maybe I'll go to LA.
Basically, I was 12 or 13 andmy teacher there at the school

(41:59):
told my mom that I had sometalent and, you know, potential
and there's just really morehappening in LA than anywhere
else, for, especially for thisage, you know, new York is very
competitive at that age there'sit's just less going on.
So basically, she suggestedthat I come to LA and I kind of

(42:23):
asked my parents.
I was still in New York andI've asked my parents.
I was still in seventh grade,so my grades really didn't count
yet and I just sat them downand basically my outlook was
this Like my older brothers werein college in New York and, to
be honest, like they justweren't doing it like big, you

(42:44):
know, they were, you know, notstruggling, but it was just hard
for them, you know.
And I saw the opportunity to goto LA.
And I was like I just told myparents like I don't want to
wait till I'm out of high schoolgoing to college, like I think
I want to, I want it now, like Iwant to go now and see if I

(43:05):
have what it takes.
What a conscious thought.
And they were exactly.
They were like well, what do we, what can we say to this kid?
You know, like he's right, youknow we had the means and my dad
stayed and he would come visit,put my mom out.
And I'm so, so grateful, like Ijust I know for facts, like I
wouldn't be where I am todaywithout them you know, wait, I

(43:28):
want to pause this story realquick.

All this has been like super fascinating and
I want to.
I want to figure out a littlebit more about the beginning,
like, tell me a little bit aboutyour mom and dad.

Sure, my mom is a super creative person and she's
super caring and very selfless,super faithful Christian woman.
She's like a prayer warrior man, like she's so fierce and I
just admire her so much.
My dad very business savvy,very much a numbers guy, but he

(44:04):
liked sports.
He loves golf.
You know that's kind of what Ispent my time with him doing,
when we would spend timetogether, won a bunch of amateur
tournaments, like he's reallygood, and so that was kind of
the dynamic and but as far astheir relationship it wasn't
super thick, like you know whatI mean.

(44:26):
Like my dad just wasn't a superemotional, feely, touchy guy,
like I can't even reallyremember them holding hands or
kissing, you know, like it wasvery much like I knew.
You know the love is there andit's like that's a lot of
boomers, you know what I mean.
Like I feel like thatgeneration was very much.
We're going to work, we'regonna provide and that's what it

(44:48):
is, and we're not gonna cry,we're not gonna get emotional.
I go work in the morning, youknow, and I feel like that's
pretty normal and so growing upI didn't really have a male in
my life that showed emotion youknow I think I saw my dad cry
like one time, like at his mom'sfuneral, like that was it, and

(45:10):
but how touching.
you know, like when you see yourdad cry remember seeing your
dad cry and you're like, oh myGod.

Well, I mean, your story is actually so
parallel to mine.

Really.

Actually that I'm resonating with what you're
saying.
My dad, maybe my mom, cried alittle bit, but not touchy
feeling, not overly lovey, but Iknew that they loved the shit
out of us and they were greatparents.

But the it's more like a partnership with that
kind of marriage.
That's actually a perfect word,and I'm sure they don't know
about your situation, but for meI knew they loved each other,
but it was more like apartnership and it kind of now,
looking back at it, itdefinitely like we talked about
earlier.
Everything's downloadinginformation at that age and it

(45:52):
definitely not seeing a superlovey-dovey relationship in your
parents creates I wouldn't sayproblems, but it creates
dynamics in your love life.
You know, I'm not a superromantic person.
I have to kind of put it on alittle bit.
You know a lot of girlfriendsthat I had when I was a teenager
.
They were like why aren't youdoing things for me?

(46:12):
You know what I mean, and notthat I should have been, but
girls and guys are so different,you know, and I didn't really
see growing up my dad never gotmy mom flowers.
My dad never said stuff likethat and he's a great guy, you
know.
It's not saying that he shouldhave, it's just that's what he

(46:34):
learned, you know.
And it reminds me now ofbreaking the cycle of
generations.
I feel like systems ofdysfunction, systems of poverty,
systems of laziness, like theyget passed down because we're so

(46:59):
impressionable as young kids,and so I feel like a big part of
life is taking the good thingsfrom the parents and breaking
the cycle of the bad things.

You know, I very much think that that's our
generation.
Like that's kind of our mandateIs that let's figure out the
things that have been passeddown to us and actually figure
them out so that we don't passthem on.
But, dude, literally everythingyou're saying is dangerously
close to me.
That's crazy.
I'm sure that that means thatthere are a lot of people
watching and listening who aregonna resonate with that as well

(47:31):
.
But I see the things that Iwant to do, I can imagine them,
but they don't come out of me.
I have to really really work tomake them happen.
But it's really sad because Iwant them to happen but I'm just
like programmed to not showthat.
I do love holding hands and Ido like huddling, but I don't.
There's I don't know.

(47:54):
There's a point where it's justlike too much and I wish that
weren't the case, but I knowthat that's because I did not
receive that, so it feelsunnatural.

Yeah, and it also has to do with like your
relationship history, to likehow much you've been in
relationships, what kind ofrelationships you've had and
like for me, I had a lot ofgirlfriends from 16 to maybe
like 23.
And just these past couple ofyears of like taking a step back

(48:27):
and I'm not so girl crazyanymore, and that's when you
like really can think about whatyou want and think about who
you wanna be as a partner.
I feel like I'm ready to likefind my person.

Yeah, and back to parents.
So in our timeline of your lifewe're 12 or 13.

Yeah.

And you were having a conversation about
moving to LA.

Yeah.

So what happened whenever they said we can't
turn this kid down?

Well, my mom and I drove out.

We drove out.
That's a long ass drive, yeah,yeah, from Orlando.
I don't think it could get anyfurther.
It was like five or six daysyeah.

It really can't.
And it was great, Like it was2010, simpler times, and we got
a place in Toluca Lake.
It's a little apartment, justme and my mom, and it was some
of the best times of my life.
I started going to acting classat John D Queenow School Shout

(49:38):
out, John D Queenow, If anyonewants to come to LA and be an
actor, he's a great coach forkids and, yeah, like I just
started thriving.
You know this was my place.
You know I got made fun of inschool for sure for being an
actor.
Like I told you, like I wasdoing some little like
productions here and there inschool and out of school.
You know people call me a homoand like, and it's not even

(50:02):
saying anything's wrong withbeing gay, but at that age that
means that you're like anoutsider.
You know that means you'relooked down upon.

Yeah, also somebody's using that derogatory
.

Derogatory, yeah, and.
And that's gay, yeah, andnowadays you know I'm so secure
with my sexuality, whatever.
But as a kid I definitely gotmade fun of for sure for being
artistic and I think that's soimportant for kids to know.
That's why I'm involved withthis thing boot-a-booleying.

(50:37):
We've done some events.
We made my band have played fortheir cause and it's so
important for kids to know thatwhenever someone makes fun of
you, whenever someone makes youfeel stupid or bad or like you
don't matter or your opiniondoesn't matter, it has nothing

(51:00):
to do with you.
It has nothing to do with you.
It has everything to do withthem.
We live in such a broken worldand kids are hurting.
Kids are killing themselves.
You know kids are killing otherpeople.
Like kids will do anything tofeel good.
Like we were talking aboutearlier.

(51:20):
We gravitate towards the lightand even if the light is at
expense of other people.
At kids you don't.
At a child, you don'tunderstand that.
So whenever someone's makingfun of you, calling you names,
it's because that kid's hurting.
And what they say hurt people,hurt people is 100% true.

I'd love to extend that to literally any
time that somebody does that.
I mean kids, especially becausethey're very vulnerable to that
, but adults.
If anybody who's spewing shitonline and saying some negative
things to somebody else, to yourface or behind your back.
It's always about them and notabout you.

It always is.

And it's very tough to not let it affect you.
But if you can stop and justthink for a moment this isn't
about me, this is about them Ithink that will help a little
bit.
But yeah, it's tough, it's justsomething you have to get used
to.
This world is rough.

Yes.

So you and your mom move out here and do you go
into a normal school or do yougo into one of the schools that
allow you to also be on set?

Yeah, so, right away, I did Florida Virtual
School, I did online school andI was never a good student, to
be honest.
Even in Orlando, I would missup my homework, I wouldn't get
the information, I'd need tocall my friends and, like, I had
this thing called auditoryprocessing syndrome, which I
don't know if I still have.
Some people tell me that it'snot real, but I think it very

(53:00):
much is real.
It's just a matter of whetheryour brain moves slow or fast,
and for me, my brain movedreally fast, so when information
would be told to me, I'dalready be thinking like four
steps ahead and not receivingthe information, and that has

(53:20):
now bled into being on set anddirecting.
And when I get notes and when Iget rewrites or whatever, I
really have to clarify and makesure that I'm getting the full
information.
But anyway, going back to beingout here, no, I didn't go to a
regular school for a while.
Seventh, eighth, ninth grade Idid online and those years were

(53:44):
all spent really getting to knowkids and going to acting class.
Kids that I still know todayhave great friends out here.
And it was 10th grade, myjunior, my sophomore year that I
went to Brighton Hall, whichused to be called San Fernando
Valley Professional School andit was kind of like an actor

(54:05):
school, like very small class,and I did a year of that school
and that was the year I bookedthe Thundermins.
So that only lasted for about ayear and then I left to do set
school and set school last untilI graduated.

So I wanna figure out how long the period
was from like you, moving to LAand doing acting till booking
the Thundermins.
And then we'll.
I wanna dive in a little bit onhow you got that gig, cause
obviously that's how most peopleknow you, but I think that
there's a lot to learn from it.
And yeah, so how long was thegap?

So three years, and I will say it doesn't sound
like a long time now, but whenyou're that age it is a long
time when you've only lived 13years.
So true actually you know so,and the thing to learn there I
would say is that things taketime.
I saw a lot of kids come and goas a teenager here in LA.

(55:04):
I got friends that would we'dget close and they would see how
hard it is and that it doesn'tjust happen overnight and they
would go back home because it'shard.
It's expensive to be out heretoo, and I think a lot of people
don't see the work it takes toget to where people are you know
, that's actually what thispodcast, I hope, highlights with

(55:26):
my guests.

It's fucking hard, takes a lot of work.
It's not so much about thetalent, it is the hard work and
talent is-.

Cause.
A lot of times in the rest ofthe world, you only see the
finished product, you know, andit can seem like it did happen
quickly.
And like I will say, like thereare some cases that it does
happen quickly.
Those people are very rare andthose people are very, I'd say,
gifted at being natural.
Because that's really what wewant in entertainment is.

(55:57):
We just want realness, we justwant our imitating life, you
know.
But it's so interesting, likewhen you press record on
anything, whether it's a cameraor a microphone, psychologically
and subconsciously it changesthings for the performer and
like we were talking about beingin that space of being inspired

(56:18):
.
Like for me, recently, withrecording.
I haven't done much recordingin my music, you know, like for
a whole year when I did the band, when it was like a different
band, we didn't even hit arecording studio that whole year
, like we were just playing, youknow, getting a live sort of
feel, getting a sound, you know.
And now that I've beenrecording for the past couple of
years, I'm like how do I makemyself believe that I'm alone

(56:43):
right now, you know, because yousing so much differently, alone
or just for someone?
You know, I can remember beingon like a boat and like people.
These group of people I didn'teven know were like oh, you're
in a band, like you're singingus a song.
We had a guitar and I just feltlike I was just saying, like
the best ever, you know, likewhen you're meeting new people,
when you're really performingfor an audience and there's no

(57:04):
cameras rolling, and it's aspecial thing that you're
sharing with only those people,yeah, but anyway, we were
talking about other shit.

Yeah, but Hilaris, a little bit there, yes
, oh well, if you want to diveback in.

Moving here.
It took three years and ittakes a long time.
So, yeah, anyway, it took threeyears and exactly what my agent
at the time said happened.
Basically, she said you know,like nobody knows you yet this
year it's going to take a coupleof years.
It's kind of like being in highschool, like you're a freshman,
you're a sophomore, you're ajunior and you're a senior, and
it happened like that.

(57:40):
Like it happened like the firstyear I'd get auditions but no
one really knew me and then inthe second year I was starting
to get callbacks and stuff andgetting better the whole time
going to class.
That's another thing too.
You can't just like, you can'tjust like start going for this
thing and not training.
Like like I'm saying, it's veryrare for those people to move

(58:01):
here and get famous overnightand get a big job.
It's like those people arerarities and it's like anything.
You need to be in a structuredtraining course, you know
whether it's school or doingyour own at home.
Like I would suggest againstdoing your own at home, because
it's really hard to create yourown curriculum.

(58:22):
I mean, there's, you know,youtube, university and all that
kind of stuff, but withsomething like art it's so
nuanced and hard that you needpeople who have done it and know
it and are not even necessarilygreat themselves, like they say
.
A lot of people who can't doteach.

(58:43):
And it's true, like it's evenfor me when I'm, like you know,
helping a friend with a scene,like I can, when you're not in
it, you can view it differentlyand really assess it.
Just like a same life situationwhen you're giving your friend
advice.
It's like for being a fly onthe wall, outside of perspective
, like you should listen to yourfriend because they're not

(59:04):
biased, they're not in thesituation you know.
Like when you're in somethingwith a relationship and you feel
like you can't leave, you knowyou feel like.
You know like when you're in it, like it's hard to have the
perspective of how to be out ofit For sure.

But also with that to go along with your point
.
Still, the perspective isnecessary, but you're only gonna
listen to them if you know thatthey are going to have solid
advice on that topic.
So, choosing a class to learnin, you need somebody who's done
the thing and has a perspective.

(59:43):
But one question on that,because I'm sure people wanna
know who are watching andlistening.
How often should you go toacting class?
At least once a week, Okay, butwhat's the optimal?

Right now I'm in class once a week.
I've done two a week.
It just depends on how much youwant.
You know how much you canafford and how much you want it
Like it really comes down to ifyou're trying to at least be in
this world.
There are so many people herethat want it so fucking bad and

(01:00:17):
will do anything.
And one of my teachers told meat a really young age they might
out-talent you, jack, theymight be better, but don't let
them out.
Work you.
And it just stuck with me thatwhen I have an audition and I
have an opportunity, I gottathink about all the other boys

(01:00:39):
that are having the opportunityand what they're doing.
You know, and if there's even aquestion of whether they're
doing more, you're probably notgonna get that part Like you.
Just probably not.
Cause some people say that oh,if you're the guy, you're the
guy, it doesn't really matter.
I disagree.
I think there's a lot of workthat comes into it.

(01:01:02):
I think you gotta look the partfor sure, but most of the time
they're gonna go with someonewho is skilled, obviously.

Austin Seltzer (01:01:12):
So skilled and then, I'm guessing, put in time
to either read the full script,understand really deeply who
that character is and not justgive a performance but really
encapsule the character thatyou're auditioning for the world
.
It's more than the character.

Jack Griffo (01:01:28):
It's really the world.
Like a lot of my some of myfriends who are actors will not
read the script, and I'm justnot saying I read the script
every time.
I'm not the perfect studentactor but if I really want the
role and it's obviously reallydeep, I will, and most of the
time I do.
But some people don't see the.
This is a good point, that'sconjuring.

(01:01:52):
Some people don't see the valuein world building, like
literally right now, real timeexample, I'm in a scene right
now in class where I have to cryand it's always hard for me.
It's always hard for me evengoing back to like my dad, you

(01:02:13):
know, not having someone who isemotional and not seeing that.
It's really a superpower as aman to be able to be that in
touch with your emotions andthen control it.
And it's something that I'mworking on, especially being in
the whole Nickelodeon space forso long, like I didn't have to
ever do that, didn't have toever cry on the sitcom,
obviously, and world building.

(01:02:36):
So basically, the first weekthere was a lot there for me.
Basically, with our class weget a new scene every week, we
get assigned a scene partner andwe, with our scene partner, get
to pick a scene.
And tonight is gonna be weekfour on this scene.
Week one, I was actually out.
Week two my first time on thescene was really good.

(01:02:57):
I kind of went in it with noexpectations and there was a lot
there for me.
I wouldn't say I was, I pushedthe weeping a little bit but I
got kind of glossy eyed and Ifelt it, you know, and I felt I
looked at that as a victory.
You gotta give yourself pads onthe back.
You gotta look at things atvictory.
It's not vain.
You gotta give yourself creditwhere it's due.

(01:03:18):
And then last week it was theopposite.
I kind of had expectations.
I wasn't really feeling veryopen and nothing was there for
me.
When it came to that point andmy teacher told me this is back
to the world building thing Inthe talk back which is after we

(01:03:40):
do the scene, I was reallyfocused on the fact that I
couldn't get there, that Icouldn't cry.
And I love this school so muchbecause it's kind of a different
technique than anything thatI've worked on before.
It's like the opposite of themethod Method acting like being
so consumed with the character,knowing that person's life and

(01:04:03):
knowing what that person's goingthrough and it's not really you
.
And this technique is very muchlike you in finding the
substitution.
You know finding what makes youtick.
You know Knowing yourself thebest so you can share yourself
the best.
And basically, all this to saythat I was so focused on what I
had to do in the scene, theplace that I had to get, that if

(01:04:25):
you think about that at allleading up to that point in the
scene, it's not gonna be there.
And if it's there, it'sprobably pushed and not real.
So what my teacher told me wasthat you know you gotta focus on
the world building.
You know you gotta focus on thecontext.
You know and this is what wewere talking about with you know
reading the script to know thecharacter.

(01:04:45):
And it's even more, you gottaread the script to know the
world.
You know A lot of people thinkthat you know, for example.
For example, a lot of thescripts that they'll give you
for like an episodic for a TVshow are a couple episodes
before your episode, and a lotof people are like, oh, like,

(01:05:07):
it's not my episode.
Sometimes your character isn'teven in it and some people will
be like, well, you know it's,I'm not in it so I don't need to
read it, and it's like there'sgonna be guys that are getting
that perspective, that worldview, and that know more about the
world, and there's just so muchthat goes into it.

(01:05:28):
Like I love acting because it'ssomething that you can learn
for life.
You know, and this school thatI'm in, I learned very quickly
that you have to have a mindsetof I know nothing.
You know, that's the beginningof wisdom, really, I think, is

(01:05:50):
when you can truly be at a placeof I'm a student, I'm trying
here to learn, I'm here to getbetter, I'm here to fail Like
there's so much value in thefail.
You know people when they capthemselves and think, well, I'm
good at these things, so I'mjust gonna keep doing these
things, if you're not failingconsistently, you're not trying

(01:06:14):
hard enough.
You know, and I think whenpeople are afraid of that is
when they've plateaued.

You know, they've peaked and you know
Failing is definitely a key tosuccess.

Yes, no doubt, if you're not failing.

You are not trying hard enough.
Exactly.

Yeah.
And having people that disagreewith you too, not to cut you
off, but like having people thatjust tell you yes, and if
you're working a part of a teamthat everyone agrees.
Rick Rubin said if you havepeople that are just constantly
agreeing with each other, yougot something wrong.
You don't have enoughdifferentiating opinions to get
a full spectrum on things.
You can't have a bunch ofpeople thinking the same way.

Right, yeah, and then the thing that I also love
about him is he also says thatyou should just listen to
yourself.
It's great to have input.

Yes, exactly yes.

I mean, at the end of the day, you're the one
wearing whatever the choice is.

so yes, and I will touch on that, because earlier I
was saying take advice frompeople, and I think it's a yin
and yang.
I do, and what you just said, Ithink, is something that I've
been kind of articulating too inmy life of it's very important
to have support and take advicefrom people and listen to
people's perspective, but you'rethe one driving the car.
No one knows what to do, whatthe best thing to do is, other

(01:07:32):
than you, because no one hasyour experiences.
No one's lived your life, noone knows the relationship you
have with that person other thanyou.
Everyone has their ownexperience in this life.
It's the Rex put out that song,saundra and that's what it is
everyone's unique experience.
We're not kind of in.
You're not the only one here.

(01:07:52):
You're not living in asimulation.
Other people are real, livingthe exact same thing that you
are, and if you believe thatit'll change the way you treat
people, that you, sitting hereacross from me, are having the
same experience, that it's notall about me.
It kind of goes into that wholetheory of which I never really

(01:08:16):
understood.
Maybe we can figure this out.
Of like okay like this bookright here, like I see that book
as red.
But who says that you see thatbook as red?
Someone has told me that beforeand I'm like well, it's red to
both of us, so it's red, butthere is something there of like
I mean you see red.

Yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying.
I see reddish oranges Like Icould go into, like it's almost
a burnt orange but it's like alittle bit more red than orange
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, like but yeah yeah,we all see things in a
different perspective.

A lot of certain things that you.
There's certain things in lifethat, depending on what kind of
person you are, you can't justtake someone's word for it.
You got to find out foryourself.
I've been there so many times.

Yeah, it's part of growing for sure.
Okay, so three years of acting,after you come here, you land
the Thundermen's.
So I want to know, tell us all.
I guess it's public knowledge,but since I think the people at
this point watching andlistening, I think many episodes
will be out.
I'm not a deep researcher.
I want to have an organicconversation where these topics

(01:09:32):
organically come up and I canpoke at the ones I want to poke
at.
So tell us the story of thepilot of the Thundermen's and
how you got the opportunity toaudition for it.

Sure.
So I was 16, I was in 10thgrade at that kind of actor
school we were talking aboutright in Hall and Kira went
there too.
Kira plays Phoebe on the showand we had a relationship before
the show.
You know, we were friends andwe were both in that school
together and she took time offto go shoot the Thundermen's

(01:10:07):
pilot, so that is to say I wasnot a part of it.
The first Thundermen's pilot,which is it's common knowledge.
I mean it's but not a lot ofpeople know.
And it's funny when I thinkback.
I remember hearing the wordThundermen's and I it's kind of
funny because I thought that itwas Thunder Mint, as in like

(01:10:31):
mint.

I don't know why .
The first time I heard that'swhere my mind went.

What would those be ?
Those would kill.
Honestly, we should yeah, weshould patent that.
And then obviously I knew thatit wasn't that and Kira took
time out of school and Iremember getting the audition in
my email, which is so cool thatthat is kind of it's not cool.

(01:10:59):
It's just like that.
Some things are just the waythey are and that's the first
time you see projects.

They're just in your email and like it's like
audition project name likewhatever, so it went to you and
not your agent.

Well, my agent sent this to me.
Okay, my agent sent it to meAlso.

I just figured out the tagline for the mints.

It'd be shockingly good, but let's go, let's go, oh
, we're going to, we're going to.
Shockingly fresh, let's go.
And so, yeah, my, I was alreadyon a Nickelodeon pilot at that
point.
It was supposed to be like thenew all that.
It was supposed to be like aSNL for kids with sketch comedy.
I played like I played likeJustin Bieber and I like sang

(01:11:35):
and all this stuff and it didn'tgo and that was hard.
As a 15 year old, For sure thatwas one of the hardest things
at that point.
But you know, it was fine and Igot.
The audition for the ThunderMints came in my email and the
first thing I thought I was likethat's Kira show and why is it

(01:11:55):
in my email?
And it turns out they weredoing a new pilot and they were
adding this character of Max.
Max was not in the originalpilot with Phoebe.
It's pretty much about allabout Phoebe.
And I remember texting Kiraimmediately because we were

(01:12:16):
friends and of course in mylittle you know teenager mind
like, oh, maybe I'll have a legup, since I, since I know her,
you know, and you know it'sfunny because I had been in
situations before like, forexample, on dog with a blog I
was testing for that with GHonellius and Blake, Michael and

(01:12:38):
Blake had a relationship with Gand I didn't, and I just
remember being on the oppositeside of that, of that of that
end, you know, being like theywere literally in the Disney
casting room, like kind ofrunning it together because they
know each other, and I was likekind of you know, with my dick
in my hands like well, okay,that makes sense.

(01:13:00):
And now I'm on the opposite end,where I have the relationship
with Kira, and it just ebbs andflows that way.

So well, I'd like to highlight something real
quick for everybody watchingand listening.
This is one thing that kind ofthreads all these episodes
together is finding what makessomebody successful.
But what are the things thatthey did and so many things like
already, and then we'll getback to that you did all of
these years of class right.

(01:13:26):
You did all these things to getready for this moment, but also
just by coming to LA andenrolling in that school, you
met Kira, and I'm sure that youmet so many other people.

Yeah, but it was actually not even in the school.
School, it was an acting class.
I met Kira.
We go even farther back.

There you go, yeah, so I mean, if you didn't
go to that school, you wouldn'thave that relationship.

Yeah, you know it's going into this.

So I mean, just like, it's the work that you do
before the opportunity thatcounts.

Yeah, it's the work and it's the relationships with
people.
You know it's really a peoplebusiness, absolutely, and it's
really important to have goodrelationships with others.
So, long story longer.
I got the audition I'm textingKira about it and I think I went

(01:14:19):
right to producers because Ihad the relationship with
Nickelodeon.
So I did that pilot like theyear before and I think at that
point I had like guest starredon a few things.
That's kind of how it happens,like like first year you don't
really get many, you knowcallbacks.
Then you start gettingcallbacks and then you start,
you know, getting littlebookings, maybe a guest star,

(01:14:39):
and then you get you starttesting for series regulars, and
that's kind of how the processwent.
And by the time I was testingfor Thundermins I had done a
Nickelodeon pilot.
I had guest starred on a coupleNickelodeon shows and that's
kind of how they kind of liketest you out, kind of see how
you'll do you know how, with thepressure.
And at that point there was alot of live audiences and I had

(01:15:01):
my kind of background in theater, so I was very used to that and
I thrived off of that.
Live audiences are kind ofgoing away these days.
It's kind of sad.
It's a dying art form, thewhole multi-camscom for a live
audience.
But anyway, I was reallyprepared.
I was ready, you know, and I'ma big believer in like you get

(01:15:23):
what you're ready for, you know,and you don't get what you're
not ready for.
Like there was a lot of roles,let's say Spider-Man.
I auditioned for Tom Holland'sSpider-Man and I wanted it so
bad and I did everything I couldand I really prepared.
But if I had gotten that role Ireally don't believe I would
have been ready and at the endof the day I wouldn't have

(01:15:45):
wanted that.
You know I don't want to getsomething and fall flat.
You know Tom Holland's amazing.
He's a better actor than me,just like, put it there.
And it's just important to kindof know.
It's important to not want toget too ahead of yourself.
You know, like in music forexample, like someone would be
like why aren't you playingbigger rooms?
You know, why aren't youplaying like 800, like 1200?

(01:16:07):
And I'm like, well, like Ican't sell that many tickets and
even if I could, like I'm inthe like two to 500 range right
now It'd be really intimidatingfor me to be in, to be
commanding that big of a roomand I'm really not ready.
I want to work myself up tothat so I can really kill it.

Yeah, so it's hard for probably listeners to
understand if they're not deepin the music space, which I'm
not a performer.
But I do understand how youreally have to grow up, into how
big the stage in the room is.
You have to be able to command alarger room.
It has so much to do with yourstage movement and, just like

(01:16:48):
the overall sound of the tracksthat you're playing, I don't
know the leads ability toresonate with everybody in the
crowd and make them feel special, like there's a.
You have to grow up into that.

So that's Absolutely.
We're about to play theTroubadour in 11 days.
Oh yeah, and I'm so excited.
I'm so excited to be in thatspace.
I've seen a lot of lifechanging shows there.

Absolutely Same.
Yeah, and that will be a stepup for you.

Exactly, exactly.
We did the Viper Room lastsummer and it's definitely a
step in the right direction.
So anyway, back to Thundermans.
I, like I said, I had worked alittle bit on these shows, like
guest stars and stuff, before Igot the test and at the time I
was testing for a couple Disneyshows that Dog with a Blog, one

(01:17:37):
that I mentioned, there's onecalled I Didn't Do it that my
friend Austin North and OliviaHolt ended up doing, and at the
time I wanted those, I reallywanted the Disney shows.
Like and I've said it beforelike I I you just kind of have
an idea coming out here I wantedto do the wand, you know, the
ears, the mouse ears, and Iwanted those.

(01:18:00):
And kind of in retrospect nowI'm like gosh, like I'm so glad
I got the Thundermans, you know,like it was just the best show.
But anyway, back to the auditionprocess and booking it.
I got right to the producersession and then they called me
back for the, for the test, thechemistry read, with Kira and
with Chris who plays Hank, mydad, on the show, and I guess

(01:18:23):
I'll tell the story Like why not, I'm gonna tear it.
Oh, dude, no, I have to now.
I'll make it short.
I basically like before thechemistry read I get there and
there's like a ton of boys,there's like there's like 15,

(01:18:44):
and usually it's like you'redown to like the final five or
whatever.
And I was like oh damn, youknow there's a lot of me's
around here, Some friends that Istill know today.
You know people that are kind ofin my age range, and this is
just a little part of the story.
Basically, I go to the bathroombefore my read and I walked in
on the casting director going tothe bathroom.

(01:19:06):
This chick dude.
She was going to the bathroomand there was not locked and I
walked in and it was like, ah,it's so bad bro.
I'm like 16, you know, and I seetoo much.
I saw too much, you know, and Idon't know if it was the
casting director.
It could have been theassistant or someone that worked

(01:19:26):
for them.
But anyway, I go in and youknow they're in the room and I'm
just trying to like, do my read, you know.

Yeah, how do you shake off that?

Yeah, I had to really shake it off then, and
it's just funny that that's whatI ended up booking, because it
really threw me for a curveballbefore the audition.

Yeah, I could feel like, was it just like a
wave?
It probably wasn't.
Was it anxiety feeling or withlike just adrenaline, like oh
shit, oh shit, oh shit.

Definitely, definitely.
And you're so young at that.
Like you know, I hadn't hadexperience with girls at that
point.
Like it's just, I was soinnocent, anyway, that threw me
for a curveball, but thechemistry was just there with me
and Kira in the read, it wasjust very palpable.

(01:20:15):
It was.
Is that the right word?

Yeah, Also hilarious that I hear that most
often about chemistry reads.

Yeah.

Like that word.
I think it's like a.
That's the thing you know it'sthere.

It's tangible, it's like you can feel the
relationship and it's because ofme and Kira's work in acting
class, but also just because weknew each other.
Like there was really nothingthat those other guys could do
to have the same relationshipthat I had with her.
And our relationship was verymuch Max and Phoebe, like we
were in acting class togetherfrom 2010.

(01:20:50):
Like she was 12 or like 11 andI was like 13.
And it was never more thanfriends which worked in our
favor.
It was always platonic.
Like some people don't believeme, like even the Nickelodeon
execs thought we hooked upReally, like literally.
They like wouldn't believe it.
They'd be like, yeah, right,and I don't even know why,

(01:21:11):
because we didn't flirt, they,they.
I think they just figured,because we were both young and
good looking, that we would havedone that.
I don't know what that saysabout them, but we would swear.
We'd be like.
No, like we never have, and alot of even fans are like you
know.
This is ridiculous.

You guys, you guys have hooked up, fans have
fanfictions and all that, though.
Oh, oh, yeah, oh yeah, I knowthat could be a whole no, kira
has showed me.

It's disturbing.
They'll make these whole likesex stories with us.
Yeah, it's not cool.

Yeah, I know fanfictions that go deep.

Yeah, they go deep and we're like this little
Nickelodeon show.
It just shocked me.
I was like wow.
But anyway, I remember, Iremember leaving and thinking
that it went really, really well, and that same sentiment of
like.
Even when I was young I knewthat I had like a really a

(01:22:08):
really thick relationship withKira and I knew that it showed.
And whenever you get a role,your agent calls you and usually
it's everyone on the team, likewhether it's their other agents
or their assistants or yourmanager, and it's either really
good or really bad when theycall.
You know like, even when theycall today, I'm like, am I

(01:22:31):
crying or am I celebrating?
You know like, just tell me now.

Your heart's just like yeah, yeah.

And sometimes it's a good thing but it's not as
good as you hoped.
You know, like sometimes you'llbe up for a few things and
they'll call you and you'llthink it's the one thing, but
it's actually the thing thatit's good but it's not as good.
Yeah, You're like, ah, okay,cool.
But yeah, I remember gettingthe call and just not being able

(01:23:03):
to believe it at first, likeyou're feeling like a shock and
trying to process it.
I was wearing a blue shirt andI'm walking around the room and
I'm listening to them tell methe deal and stuff and yeah, I
just felt like it was all worthit.

(01:23:26):
You know, even at that young age, like there are things that I
didn't want to have to do.
Like you know, get up early andwork and, you know, not in
sacrifice time with friends andsacrifice time in Orlando with
my friends back there.
You know, I gave it all of itup and it was more than just me,
as my parents too, you know,and my mom was there with me and

(01:23:49):
we're, you know, crying and andat that point I'm pretty sure
we knew it was going to go toseries, because if I really
thought about it I'd be able totell you for sure, but I'm
pretty sure it wasn't just apilot.
At that point.
When they decided to do thesecond pilot, I think that they
knew that it was going to go toseries and do a season.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, I was trying to test if having Max was going
to do better than right and well, when we did the I'm trying to
remember whether it was juststraight to series or not no, it
was, because I'll tell you thatI did the pilot and they put me
on a movie immediately and whenI got back from the movie we

(01:24:37):
started the series only likeseven weeks later.
I will say I'll get into this alittle bit Me and Kira.
Me and Kira recorded the themesong for the Thunderbirds.
That didn't end up being thetheme song, so I won't get into

(01:24:59):
what all this means, probably Isuspect.
But I will say my experience andwhat happened.
We recorded the theme song, wehad shot the first season and
now this is fast forwarding andwe're in Kira's house with all
of us from the show and readyfor the premiere, and we didn't

(01:25:20):
know anything.
And we're getting ready and thefirst scene comes on and it's
crazy, you know, like we're allwatching our show for the first
time in real time, just likeeverybody else, and the first
scene ends and the theme songcomes up with the opening
slideshow credits, you know whatI mean.

(01:25:42):
And immediately we start lookingaround as the song starts and
we're like this is not us, it'snot our song, like it's two
other people singing it, not us,and we didn't get told that at
all.
Like they didn't tell us and wewere just like Okay, wow.

What a weird feeling.

No, you'd think they would have told us.

Yeah, and you guys didn't see Final Cut.

No, we didn't see any of it before, at least I
didn't and it was a shock, likewe were expecting to be having
sung the song and possibly, youknow, maybe do a little more
music even and I'll leave itthere.
Wow, yeah, that would beshocking.
Yeah, it was shocking, but Ithink that that was maybe I

(01:26:40):
don't think I even I've realizedthis but that was kind of an
antithesis of me really puttingmusic on the side, because I had
done like YouTube and stuff.
Like before it was even a thingto be a YouTuber and I got like
millions of hits, like I didlike these covers and stuff
before Thundermen's.
And when Thundermen started Ikind of just like put it to the
side, like I really was doingwhat I what I really wanted, and

(01:27:02):
in retrospect I probably wish Iwould have done both, but I
really wanted to focus on theshow because that's what I was
having fun doing.
And then I can't really judgemyself for that.
And we did 103 episodes and yeah, like got to travel the world
and I'm so grateful, even withmentioning the song thing, like

(01:27:22):
there were things that happenedthat you know it wasn't perfect
and how could it be?
You know, I can't expect thatof a huge company like that, and
but but they did so much for methat I'm humbled and so
grateful for the opportunity andthat's why, when they they
asked me to come back, it was itwas yes from the start.

(01:27:47):
You know it was six years later.
We just shot it in in April.

Yeah and yeah, we'll definitely get to the
movie.
Wow, what an interesting thing,though for two people who are
vocalists.
I mean, you both can sing, weboth could sing, yeah.

Yeah, that's what I will say, that like it was
around the time that Ariana wasgetting really, really big and
that caused problems for Nick.
So I don't think they wanted torepeat history and it makes
sense.
You know, yeah, yeah, I have afriend who's kind of newer in

(01:28:26):
the scene.
You'll say, you know, and notreally used to seeing like
famous people or whatever.
And we were at this place inMalibu and there's this, this,
this, this, this, this, this,this, this, this, this, this,
this, this, this, this, this,and there's this this show
happening and I was actuallyhoping I'd be able to tell this
story.
On the way here.
I was like I hope we get tothis because it's kind of a
funny story.

(01:28:48):
We see this guy.
We're at the bar.
We see this guy and he looksdope.
Like, he looks cool.
You know, he's got like theblack, he's got the trucker hat,
he's a little bit of an olderguy, his season day.
We're like this guy's an artist, like we could just tell you
know, this guy does music forsure in like a big way.
Yeah, you could just feel itoff some people.
Yeah, you totally can, and it'snot like they're putting it out

(01:29:09):
there, it's just who they areand I knew it, he knew it, and I
was talking to some otherpeople, because I still have a
thing of like when I knowsomeone's like, I don't want to
come off like I'm trying to getanything from them.
You know, I hope that maybewe'll connect in a more organic
way, you know, and it didn'tseem right at the time for me to
go up to him.

(01:29:29):
Anyway, my friend doesn't havethe same, same idea.

Not the social, not the same social like you,
exactly.
So he goes up to him.

And this is all what I found out afterwards,
because I was doing my own thing.
And then I basically come backto my friend and I'm like, who
was it, you know?
And he was like, oh, bro, he's,he's like a big artist, he's
from the bravery, and I was like, what's that?
And he plays me the song, sogive me something to believe.

(01:30:03):
And I was like, no way I gotsuch a big song you know, and
and he was like, oh, bro, like I, I, I think I was like too much
, you know, I think I think Iwas too much, you know, and I
was like, yeah, dude, you got tolike, you got to be chill, you
got to like not give them theimpression that you want
anything from them.

(01:30:23):
You just got to, got to play itlike you just want to be a
friend which is genuine, youknow, just just be their friend,
just connect with people andonce you get to know them and,
you know, get their information,eventually then you can start
to talk about, oh, like weshould collaborate or produce or
write together.
It just can't really be likethat's kind of my rule of thumb,

(01:30:45):
like I don't really go therefor a while, like I just try to
like meet people and be theirfriend and because having
friends is awesome, you know,like I think community and
friendship is so important andit can't really be about an
exchange, even though that'swhat ends up happening and maybe

(01:31:07):
what you ideally would like.
You just can't make it aboutthat because then it kind of
repulses people.

You know, you're perfectly right.
I think exactly what it is isif you could flip off the switch
in your head.
That's like, oh shit, that'ssomebody big I need to go talk
to them.
You just flip that off and likesay yeah.
I'd love to have.
I'd love to just conversatewith them.
I just want to talk.

Yeah, and throw them curveballs because famous
people don't want to beass-kissed.
You know it'd be like I don'tknow, just something that they
don't hear often.
You know, like that's the thingabout like being famous or a
celebrity or a known person.
It's like you get a lot ofopportunities, you get your foot
in the door and a lot of placesthat you wouldn't have

(01:31:53):
otherwise.
But also it creates this thingof like people.
You never really know if peopleare treating you genuinely.
You know, because anyone couldknow who you are and anyone
could have an idea of you, andit creates a, right off the bat,
a level of uncertainty inrelationships.

(01:32:15):
And so I have a I feel like avery keen radar of people who
are trying to act like they'rejust meeting me.
But I know that they know who Iam, you know, and it's fine,
you know, but people, peoplelike people would just be rude
sometimes, like someone oncetold me that I looked, they

(01:32:42):
thought I'd be bigger in person,they thought I'd be taller.
What the fuck it's so messed up.
But but yeah, it kind ofcreates, it kind of takes away a
level of like just person toperson meeting people if you are
like a semi known person.
So it's like give and take,like there's good things about

(01:33:06):
it but there's also harderthings about it that you kind of
have to navigate.
Interesting.

You know, hopefully, hopefully people
watching and listening nowunderstand a little bit more,
coming from somebody whoprobably gets approached pretty
often and just like dude, playit cool.

Yeah.

Just treat somebody like a human and not
like a spectacle.

Don't be so impressed.
You know people don't want to.
People don't want your praise,you know they don't.
They just want to be treatedlike normal and also give people
respect.
Like you know, like when peoplecome up to me and I'm in a
conversation or an intenseconversation, or I'm eating with
someone, like I veryrespectfully, nicely like, tell

(01:33:45):
them I'll be happy to take apicture and talk to you when I'm
done.
You know, and a lot of peoplewill think that I'm a dick for
that, but it's really assertinga level of humanity you know
that, I don't know you.
You know, I know, you know me,but I don't know you.
I'd happy to, I'm happy to knowyou, just not at this second,

(01:34:09):
when you need.

That's totally fair.
I don't think anybody eatingdinner wants to be approached
and pulled away from whoeverelse they're talking to to have
another conversation, midconversation.

But it's also really sweet when people wait.
You know like I'll be at arestaurant and I'll be leaving
and like people will be likewaiting outside, I don't want to
wait till you're done, and thatcreates like, oh, like, thank
you so much, that's sorespectful, you know, and that
creates a trust you know withpeople, with people that you
don't know, like that, and itmakes me like kind of the

(01:34:51):
position that I'm in Likeusually I do like it, usually
it's great, but sometimes peoplewill take advantage and kind of
treat you unfairly.

Yeah, I love that we captured that.
That's gold, okay, so I want tofast forward a little bit.
I want to tell people, wheneverwe met interesting, how this
all yeah, all came about.
But so we were filming a movie,I think it was 2020.

Yes, it was.
It was right at the height ofCOVID.

Yeah, it was.
Yeah, I mean we had to gettested and I mean it was like
very I caused major problemswith that.

Well, you know who caused it.
It wasn't me, it was mygirlfriend at the time.
Oh, okay.

Yeah, I didn't, I didn't like.

She was just going out all the time and she knew I
was shooting a movie and I justI asked her politely and like
she just wouldn't listen, andshe got COVID and I had to tell
production and almost shut usdown.

Yeah, I remember .
So the movies don't log off.

Yes.

And still in post, but it'll be out one day.
But we bear brothers and I knowthat.
Yeah, I know you guys arekilling it.
So yeah, I met so manydifferent people on this film,
but one of them happened to be aguy.
So I got invited onto this filmbecause of Sterling Bowman and
my best buddy, si, was doing ashort.

(01:36:11):
I don't know if it was likeseveral years before, but
anyways, I met Sterling on thisfilm.
He was the lead and he knewthat I did sound stuff because I
did it on the short and heinvited me onto this project and
then I, so I met you, I metAriel Winter, I met Luke, luke,
let's see.

Kara Royster, abriel Barbuzka.
Oh yeah, yeah, but mainly itwas Ariel, me and Luke, and oh,
ashley Argata.
Yes, who's great.
Yeah, it was kind of aculmination of like a lot of us
here in town really in this kindof same age, like it was really

(01:36:52):
like the crowd that we ran within like 2016, 2017.
It was kind of the culminationof those years, I feel like that
film.

Yeah, I was going to ask how did you meet
all of them?

Man, okay, okay.
So Ariel, she's moved away now.
It's kind of sad.
We were really really closefriends.
She lives in Nashville now withone of my old roommates and one
of my old best friends, lukeBenward, who we just mentioned,
and I actually met Ariel.

(01:37:24):
I think, like before everyonewe were in a chemistry read
together and this is actually areally good story.
Kind of like one of the reallyhard times of growing up here,
like before I didn't get thepilot, before the theme song
wasn't mine, like this was thereal first heartbreak of
Hollywood that I experienced.

Yeah, that's a good one.

I met a couple of few girls at this chemistry that
I ended up knowing for a while.
Ariel was probably the main onethat I became really close
friends with.
The other one was StephanieScott, who ended up being on
Disney.
I didn't really end up beingvery close friends with her, but
we've known each other for along time.
And then the other was KatMagnamera, and we became good
friends as well and Kat'sabsolutely killing it and we

(01:38:11):
were auditioning and chemistryreading for a version of Tom
Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.
Okay Movie didn't end up doinggreat.
Kat ended up booking it overAriel and Stephanie.
Kat got it and I didn't get itover Joel Courtney, who was in

(01:38:33):
the kissing booth and Super 8.
Great guy, and that was thefirst time I met Joel too.
But I will tell the story.
I met Ariel that day.
It was one of my first kisses.
I had to kiss three girls inone day what the heck.

Just had another day in Hollywood.

Yeah, and basically the casting department told my
reps that I had the role.
So you know, they told me onthe phone.
I was all happy we're going toBulgaria to shoot.
And that weekend Super 8 cameout and Joel was obviously in

(01:39:17):
that.
It was literally like a few acouple of days after the read
and I remember watching the MTVMusic Awards because I knew Joel
was going to be on it and I hadjust done the read with him,
against him rather, and I sawhim on stage, like with JJ
Abrams, I was like, wow, that'scrazy, Like I got the role over

(01:39:37):
him, you know.

Yeah.

And that Monday, after the MTV Music Awards, I
get the call from my agent.
And I said well, actually, youknow, the director really likes
Joel, especially with Super 8.
Just came out and I thinkthey're going to give the role
to Joel the cloud the cloud.
And I was just beside my, I was.

(01:40:05):
Ugh.
It was terrible, bro.
Like to have somethingseemingly like in your grasp,
Like I've still yet to lead amovie.
I have not done that and it'ssomething that I'm looking
forward to and that would havebeen a lead, and, but it's.
Everything happens for a reason.

(01:40:25):
I didn't do that well and endedup being fine, but it just
taught me a lot at that youngage of like in the industry and
in life, like you really can'tcount anything as for sure Until
it's for sure, oh yeah you know, even if I had Flown out and

(01:40:46):
been in the movie like it couldget scrapped, like you know to
me I could get recast like itcould not come out.
So it taught me from a veryyoung age to not get too
attached to things.

That was something I had to learn.
Also, in my my side of things,I may get tapped to mix
something, or before this, Iused to do like while we are on
this set, I was actuallycomposing and doing stuff for
like trailer, music and whatnot,and you may be in the final cut
and on the mixing room floorthey scrap your track for

(01:41:17):
another one and you were toldyou even know how much you're
getting paid.
Yeah yeah no, until it comesout.
And you see it.

Yeah, one of my friends Was basically in the
idol, you know, the HBO showwith the weekend and the whole
thing got scrapped and they madea new, a new show you know,
like, and she was very new tothe to the, to the city, like
just got here, and it was one ofthose stories that it would
have been very quick.
You know, I would have beencrazy it would have been crazy
quick and she learned a lot.

(01:41:46):
You know she, after it allhappened, her whole attitude
changed and it humbles youreally quickly.
But that's just this.
This industry is the way itgoes.
But anyway, back to meetingthat whole crew Ariel, luke,
sterling I ended up living withwith with Luke and Sterling, and

(01:42:06):
that was like a golden era forsure for me.
You know I I was doing a lot offun stuff, I was traveling, I
was having like my first andsecond relationship and learning
a lot and Shooting the show,doing the kids choice awards.
You know it was a whirlwind.
It was a whirlwind for sure.

Sounds like a little frat house.

It was, it was for sure it was our non-college frat
house and we'd have a lot ofparties and you know a lot of
people would come and people Istill know today.
It's funny, like, looking back.
You know we're all in this 26,27 age range and it's, things
are just different.
Things will just never be likethey were.
You know, like everyone'sreally grinding and trying to

(01:42:50):
find their, their direction inlife and you know, less partying
, less distractions, and it'sgreat, it's awesome, but it's
just there's a lot less timethat we get together and and
have those those memories.
You know, and it makes thosetimes more precious when you can
like plan a trip with your brosor you can just have a party or

(01:43:10):
you can, you know, you go to awedding.
It's just like we're at thatpoint in life and you know, if
you're not in that point in lifeyet, you will be where it's.
It's just not all about partyinganymore, like it's about okay,
like how am I gonna, how am Igonna survive, how am I gonna do
this?
You know, like it's, it's ait's a doggy dog world and you

(01:43:33):
have to kind of Forge your own,your own path and and kind of
plan for the future, and that'skind of what we're talking about
earlier.
Since I turned 25, like thingsare just different for me.
I don't know, and it's kind ofrecent.
I'm gonna be 27 at the end ofthe year, which is so crazy, so
crazy.
Like time has just gone by sofast since the show ended in

(01:43:53):
seven years.
That's just wild.
Yeah, yeah, so it was actuallytwo years ago when we first
heard that we might do aThunderman's movie a long time
ago really, and I was at EDC.

What a place to yeah.

I was at EDC.
I remember walking around theparking lot like around my RV,
like talking to my agent, andthat was the first time I heard
about it.
And then it went away anddidn't hear about it for a while
.
I Figured it was canned, youknow, not, not happening anymore
.
And then we started to hearabout it again, like later last

(01:44:32):
year, and then over the holiday,over Christmas, I got the call
that it was happening and wewere gonna be shooting in March.
That ended up pushing to Apriland Basically it was just
Exactly what I would have hoped.
I mean, there were definitelysome, some hurdles that I

(01:44:54):
personally had to had to getthrough.
I got injured on set, I gotsick, and I Feel like that's
just par for the course, youknow, like it couldn't have been
as easy as it was going, likeeverything else was literally
perfect, like the people wereperfect, like the, the movie was
perfect pretty much, and butyeah, so I was doing some stunts

(01:45:20):
and I didn't stretch out and Ipulled my groin.
Like really bad, I thought Itore it, that's that is a
terrible injury.

I really like soccer and and that injury it
was bad.

I felt like my this , I Was like letting this kick
out and I felt my my, like thisball in my hip like completely
slide from one side to the other, like I felt it.
Yeah, it was so bad and Ipulled through somehow
miraculously, like I did likethe whole massage gun thing and

(01:45:52):
a lot of water, a lot ofstretching, and I Was able to
pull through and do the scene,because we have some doubles,
but I want to do most of it if Ican, but that was kind of one
hurdle.
And then the first week I Iwent out and I shouldn't have
gone out, I think I went to likeemail night or something and
that's exactly what I did and Igot sick and I felt really,

(01:46:15):
really bad and I had to likeapologize and I said you know,
I'm taking this really seriously, I'm really sorry, I'm not
gonna go out anymore.
But I didn't get anyone elsesick.
So that was, that was good andbut just the story, I think it's
gonna make a lot of fans really, really happy.
We touched on a lot of thingsfrom the show.

(01:46:38):
We had a lot of the guest castback.
The story just makes sense.
It's funny and it feels like alike a culmination of of all the
years that we spent and, yeah,just seeing the fans reactions
just while we were shooting, itwas incredible.

(01:46:58):
The, the really outpouring ofsupport and love and Just the
fandom of the show really waswas revived, and we don't even
have any real Content or clipsto pose like.
It was just the fact that wewere on set.
So it was very, very cool and Ican't wait to see it.

(01:47:18):
I actually got an email while Iwas here with you that I'm
gonna see a little bit of it.
I have a ADR session coming up,which is when you go in the
studio and Dub some of the linesthat they weren't able to to
get on the day.
Yeah, so I'll be able to likesee the screen and match my my
lips, you know.
Yeah, so I'm gonna see a littlebit of it.
I'm really excited.

Yeah, basically He'll go into a studio like a
sound booth with the screen andthen it pops up with the words
on the screen with kind of likea Karaoke moving bar type thing,
right.

Yeah, you have to have to track it.
I think they call it or theycall it some word like running
it or tracking it or basicallylip-syncing it.
Yeah, you know, we're makingsure you're like on time, which
I'm actually pretty good at.

I would be so bad.

It's hard, I'd be so bad.

I'm great at like guitar hero or Something
like that, but I feel likespeaking.
I actually did it one time.
I went to UCLA producer schoolJust to learn some about that
world and we had to do it.
I was trash.

It's hard.
It's hard and, as you,something you get better at as
you, as you do more and more.
I just did some for don't logoff oh it's funny, yeah, like a
few weeks ago.
Maybe, maybe a couple months agoactually, but uh, what is time
right, relative?
But anyway, thundermines isit's.
It's crazy that it's comingback.
I mean not only to have doneover a hundred episodes, but the

(01:48:43):
fact that it's still a thinglike I Get kids coming up to me
that are really little becausethey just got put on Netflix
this year or this past yearMm-hmm, just the first two
seasons.
I think the idea is to havepeople go to Paramount Plus from
there.
I see, but since they got put onNetflix, like a whole new
generation of kids is watchingit.
You know I have kids that areout of college coming up to me

(01:49:06):
and saying they watch my showand, um, it's such a wide
demographic.
It was also really big forco-viewing with parents and kids
like a lot of parents enjoyedwatching the show.
There was a lot of Jokes withour mom and dad on the show that
were great, like we had such atalented Mom and dad duo, like
they were just so funny, which,you know, a lot of nicking

(01:49:28):
Disney shows have.
But we were there.
It was really big for forco-co-viewing with parents and
kids.
So just the the demographic iscrazy and the reach, you know,
across the world has been justinsane, you know, and it's it's
humbling, because I have my ownlittle life and I Keep pretty

(01:49:51):
private.
I don't really put everythingonline like so many people do
these days.
It's fine that they do, but Ijust, I just don't.
But I feel like my music is ais a way for me to Connect to
fans.
That that feels right to me andthat feels Good to me, you know

(01:50:11):
, because it's part of who I am,but it's it's still something
that I feel proud of and what Iwant to put out there, like I
just we give so much away asartists.
I feel like who we are, thatthe other parts I could feel
like at least me personally, Ikind of want to keep to myself.

(01:50:36):
Yeah you know, and there issomething to be said for Not
just not just Letting everyonelet, letting everyone one in,
you know, and I think that'sfine people that want to do that
, but it just never felt.
I just always kind of wanted myown privacy.
Yeah, I'm just kind of thatkind of person.

Yeah, and that makes sense.
Not everybody wants to be justhave everything out there.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's totally okay.

And I think I think it's also that like I just, I
just I can't like it whenever Ido videos like that or try to
talk to the camera, like I justfeel weird about it.
And maybe it's in security,like we talked a little bit
about that earlier, but I don'tknow what it is.
I really I really don't.
Maybe it's the fact that I grewup Like saying lines that were

(01:51:24):
given to me and I feel weirdjust saying stuff on my own.
That's why this is cool, thiskind of format of a show,
because there is no lines, butit is me and it's all kind of
off the top, which is which iscool.

Yeah, I really love this.
Yeah it's a great way toconversate.
So I think that leads into thefinal question.
And yeah, what does successmean to you?
What at this point in your life, what does success mean?

I think success, at least to me, is Directly tied
to my relationships with people,whether they're, whether
they're going good or they'regoing bad.
Success, I feel I can be tied tofailing and trying a lot of new

(01:52:15):
things.
Like it's a kind of ironicbecause success and failing is
kind of the opposite, but to meit's all the same.
So like things like going toclass, acting class and and
learning and failing and gettingbetter.
So success there.
I mean, I think success is alsoexpressing myself, not holding

(01:52:37):
things in, because that iswhat's going to create problems
for me in my life.
And I'm holding on to my traumaand holding on to my bitterness
I Think bitterness is a big onetoo like success directly being
tied to not having any kind ofbaggage or chips on your

(01:52:59):
shoulders about things you knowand Going Going forth in life
with an open hand.
You know being generous topeople, because you know that
nothing that we have is reallyours anyway.
You know it's all everybody's,you know.
That's why I I Try to Givemoney to homeless people like a

(01:53:26):
lot, like I like to always havelike ones on me, because they
say that giving is Just feels somuch better than receiving, and
I think that's really true.
I think there's a lot of virtuein in being generous and I
think that if you are, thingscome back to you anyway and not

(01:53:48):
holding on to those things.
Like I feel like as people meetme, especially over the past 10
years, like I've accumulatedstuff.
It's it feels so good and likecomforting to like have stuff,
but it's really like chains,like holding us down, like not
being so attached to materialthings and being more minimal

(01:54:10):
and not holding on to thesepossessions, you know, because
these possessions can besomething that Sort of control
us or make us feel a certain, acertain way.
Like when I buy things, it's away to like make myself feel
Important, and it's a lie.
It's not.
It's not real.
You know the things that areimportant and talking about

(01:54:32):
success, you know I've heardsomeone say that you know, when
you're old, on your deathbed andabout to go out, you're not
going to be thinking about Allthose things that you should
have gotten, like the new iPhoneor the new Android or the, the

(01:54:52):
coolest gadget, or, or, or the,or those clothes or any,
anything like that.
You're not gonna be thinkingabout those things you could be
thinking.
I Wish I spent more time withthe people that I love, because
that we, you and I are, are themost important things in this

(01:55:14):
room I think we could both agreeon.
You know, and that's there'ssomething to be said for that
like us people are, are, arewhat kind of make the world go,
and we need to come together,you know.
So I think success is like.
I think success to me isCultivation.

(01:55:38):
You know what I mean of, of, isthat even a word, cultivating
cultivation of, of creatingcommunal Processes.
You know, like getting togetherand having people that are like
minded, like like thinking thesame.
It's kind of contradicts to.
I think that people shoulddisagree we're talking about

(01:55:59):
earlier too but, yeah, like notgoing through life alone.
I think for me personally, it'sfamily.
You know, like I'm, like wetalked earlier, I'm ready to,
like you know, find my personand you know I think that's a
big part of success for me is ifI'm able to be, if I'm able to
to, to get past a few things inthis next few years that have

(01:56:20):
been holding me back and becomethe highest functioning version
of myself and Attract someonethat is also on that level, that
will be success to me.
Finding a partner in life thatis going to not only Motivate me

(01:56:44):
to to be that version of myselfthat I want to be, but also
Make me feel, be my best friend.
If I don't want to try to saylike because they say that, like
when you marry someone or youfind someone, it's like it's all

(01:57:04):
about who do you want to To bethere at the end of the day to
talk to?
That's it.
That's kind of what it allcomes down to.
If you think about it, likethere's a lot of planning that
goes into family and businessand whatever, but like when you
think about it from a day to daylevel, you know you might not
see that person all day, but youdo, when you get in bed and

(01:57:27):
pillow talk for the night andit's really like who do you want
that person to be?
And that's what I'm, what I'mlooking for, looking for my best
friend, you know, and a lot ofpeople aren't focused on that
and that's fine.
But I think the past coupleyears I have gotten to the point
where, like marriage, family isreally important to me.
I want to have kids, you know,want to be a dad, and so right
now Success is kind of settingmyself up for for that.

(01:57:50):
Yeah, like setting getting myfinances in order getting my
life in order attracting thatperson, getting married,
probably traveling a little bittogether for a few years I mean,
that's what everybody says, butlike that's, that's that's the
dream, you know, yeah, and andthen you know, be, be, be, kind
of we talked about working on onourself so that everything else

(01:58:14):
is kind of growing with us,like our career and stuff like
that.
So really doing that inner work, having everything else kind of
grow with me, with, with actingand with music and with finding
a partner and and having afamily, yeah, that's probably my
Ideal.
Like world of success and alsolike my immediate family, right
now also being like happy,healthy, you know, my parents

(01:58:36):
working out their stuff, my, mysiblings, like I think a big
part of life is like when your,when you're a high-functioning
person, you have a lot ofpositive energy.
You kind of have aresponsibility of the people
you're around to to help andmotivate them, and it also comes
out in exchange.
You know you gotta have to kindof be protective of your good

(01:58:58):
energy, because when you give it, there's an exchange there.
Like you like if you havepeople that are Bums hanging
around you all the time, they'regonna, they're gonna take that
that good energy for sure.
So there's a level of like youwant to give it but you also
want to protect it.
But I think, like we weretalking about earlier how I
started life coaching and I sortof started implementing those

(01:59:18):
Theories in into my friend'slife.
Like, dude, what do you want?
Like what's getting out of yourway?
Like I think part of thatmotivating people and get
getting the people that arearound you on your way, because
I've heard people say like, ifyou're rich, like you don't want
to hang out with poor friendsbecause you can't do anything
with them.
You can't have fun.
You can't go on trips, you know,so you want to.

(01:59:39):
You want to motivate the peoplearound you to learn the things
you're learning, so you can allStart killing it together you
know?

yeah, so that's that's my answer.
That's a perfect way to wrapthis up, dude.
Thank you so much for forcoming on here and sharing your
wisdom and having a good talkwith me, and Nonscripted.

Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
It's been really fun.

Oh yeah, dude.

Hang loose, keep it , keep it real keep it real, all
right.

So now that you've listened to the episode,
you know Jack is a character.
I love this dude.
Every time that I run into himaround LA, we're just, we always
catch up and have somethingfunny to talk about.
Or, you know, he's just, he's ahilarious dude who's incredibly
wise and he has Already workedso much, he has already done so

(02:00:37):
much, and he's he's young.
You know, there's just so muchroom for him to grow and I can't
wait to see that happen.
All right.
So an interesting point that hemade and I want to highlight
here because I haven't had anyother guests talk about this but
if you were to come in contactwith somebody who's famous or

(02:00:57):
somebody who is a Public figurethat you want to develop a
relationship with, you want towork with he gives great insight
Just treat that person like ahuman being.
You know, do not go up and putthem on a pedestal and freak out
about them.
Don't gawk over them, you know.

(02:01:18):
Don't, just don't be a fan.
Treat them like a human.
Treat them like you.
You would treat your friend andhave a normal conversation and,
at the end of that conversation, ask for their contact
information, instagram number,whatever it is just nonchalantly
, and then you can continue todevelop the relationship just

(02:01:40):
through messaging or texting andWhenever that has gotten to a
certain point, then maybe youcould talk about wanting to work
with them or you know, whateverthe goal is, but develop a
relationship.
Don't just put them on apedestal and freak out, because

(02:02:00):
that's gonna turn them away,obviously, but Ultimately it's
gonna put you in a powerposition where now they look at
you as somebody who needssomething and ultimately we want
to help each other.
So I thought that was anawesome point.
Thanks for making that.
Jack here's kind of an actorspecific Key point, but I

(02:02:21):
actually really think that itworks for so many other Arts and
and whatever you are trying toachieve.
So Jack said, if you want toreceive callbacks, if you want
to continue to get better as anactor, even if you have already
booked some bigger gigs, or ifyou're just starting out, you
need to be taking lessons, atleast one a week.

(02:02:43):
Find a teacher, a school thatmaybe has Created a couple
actors or talent that you reallylove what they do and seek that
out.
I know this is a financialinvestment, but if you're trying
to reach the top or if you aretrying to do this for a living,
it's worth the money.
This could also go forproduction, for mixing, for

(02:03:09):
anything else, like if you werestarting out, or even if you've,
like, achieved some greatthings.
You can always learn fromothers and so just reinvest into
yourself if this is the craftthat you want to do for a living
.
And Jack said that currently hedoes one a week, but at points
he's done too.
So you know, use this and andlet it help you in your craft.

(02:03:34):
Point number three is a sad buttrue one.
Unfortunately, you cannotcelebrate or you can, but do not
celebrate your wins Untilthey're actually out into the
world.
We need them to be out in theworld to actually know that
they're gonna solidify.
Unfortunately, there are somany times for me and for Jack,

(02:03:55):
as you heard where youAbsolutely have a gig right,
everybody has said so, you havebeen told by this person, that
person, you've got the gig.
In my case, I had music thatwas placed in trailers and it
was already cut and everybodysaid yes, and we already had a
price, that I was gonna get paidor the publisher was gonna get

(02:04:17):
paid, and then, an hour before,they swap it out and then I no
longer have the placement.
Jack, right before landing agig, had someone come in and
take the job because they hadcloud at that moment, and so,
unfortunately, this is one thingjust don't celebrate your wins

(02:04:37):
until they are actuallySolidified and out into the
world.
If you are on set as an actor ona film, then you can celebrate
the win, but until then, justkeep your head down, keep
working, celebrate that you gotthe opportunity, celebrate that
they loved what you have.
You know that is worthcelebrating and keep that

(02:05:00):
momentum going forward, butuntil it's actually out into the
world, you don't have it.
It's a sad but true thing.
And Ultimately for Jack, thedefinition of success already
here is Success is being thehighest functioning version of
yourself.
Attracting those into your lifewhile you are at the peak

(02:05:21):
version of yourself is success,and I think that's awesome.
Do everything that you can tofeel amazing in yourself and to
feel confident and walk into aroom with your best self and
that's what's going to attractpeople into your life that are
also at the peak of Themselvesand it's gonna help you surround

(02:05:43):
yourself with people who arereally doing great things and
that's gonna propel you forwardto success.
I loved that.
Thanks for listening to thegrounds for success podcast.
I want to thank all of thepeople who work on this podcast
and help me out.
My team is everything to me,and without them I couldn't
bring these to you every singleweek.

(02:06:03):
I couldn't post on social media, you know, with all the clips
that we have, and so I thank youguys so much.
I want to also thank all of myclients on the mixing and
mastering side, because withoutyou, I could not have grounds
for success.
So thank you so much.
If you're enjoying the groundsfor success podcast, please
follow, like and subscribe onwhichever platform you're

(02:06:25):
listening or watching on.
It helps us out a ton, and Iwant to keep getting this
content to you, in whichever wayyou listen or watch.

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