Layto: Dropping Out Of College, Creating Core Creative Team, TikTok Triumphs, and alternative psycho

Episode Transcript
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Austin Seltzer (00:01):
Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast.
I'm your host, austin Siltzer.
Together we'll unveil the keysto success in the music industry
.
Join me as I explore my guest'slife stories and experiences to
uncover practical insights tohelp you align with your goals
more effectively.
Hey coffee drinkers, welcome tothe Grounds for Success podcast

(00:29):
.
I'm Austin Siltzer and I'm amixing and mastering engineer
with over 10 years of experiencein the music industry.
This episode is the finalepisode in season one.
I honestly can't believe we'rehere.
I, just like yesterday, thiswas an idea in my head and I was
scrambling to get guests thatwere friends that I could reach

(00:52):
out to, and creating this room,creating the idea of Grounds for
Success, different names somany things went into making
this thing a reality and I'mjust, I'm so stoked we're here.
I love how season one came out,but in season two I'm going to

(01:14):
flip the script over.
We are going to elevate theaudio, the video, the social
media.
My guests are going to continueto shed light on what it took
to become successful, but thelittle nuances of this podcast
I'm going to continue to try andelevate for you guys to get the

(01:36):
best material, best guests,best stories, best way to
deliver everything to you, makeit look and sound as good as
possible.
That's the goal, and thanks forsticking with me through season
one.
I can't wait to see what seasontwo does.
So my guest today is the artistLado.

(01:56):
I've done a whole lot of mixingfor him many, many singles, and
then I did the entire albumAlternative Psycho.
I mixed and mastered the albumand his producer for this was
Inverness.
He's the EP, over the wholerecord, and there were various
other producers involved as wellas great songwriters like my

(02:19):
buddy, brandon Burnett.
So you'll hear about that album, how it came to be, how he
chose the team around him andjust really how he vibed with
the particular people that heknew could take him to where he
wanted to go.
Today we'll hear about hisearly life and how his parents
instilled this thing in him thatyou have to work hard for what

(02:43):
you want, nothing is given.
So he has a very blue-collarmentality and that pure work and
perseverance is what will getyou to where you want to go, and
that really shows through whohe is and the music he puts out.
We learned how, at a young age,lado would listen to the radio

(03:04):
and take very popular songs andrewrite the words to those songs
.
It just was like an earlycreative flex of the muscle of
coming up with something unique,and I think that's fun because
I kind of resonate with that aswell.
I did something very similarwhenever I was younger, so I
thought that was a fun littletidbit.
We also hear about how Lado wasstudying to become an English

(03:28):
major, probably going to go intolaw, but then he had a song pop
off on some blogs and onYouTube and so he pursued music
instead of those which you know.
Law to music is quite a bigswitch, so that was interesting
as well.
We hear about the story on howLado met his first manager.

(03:49):
It's a pretty funny story abouthow he came across this list of
managers and how, ultimately,he pivoted from that manager to
Garrett, who now manages himtoday.
You'll also hear this funnystory about how I came across
Lado's music.
This one particular song calledHounden, and it popped up in
one of my playlists, and at thetime I was making a playlist of

(04:10):
artists that I wanted to mix,but you know I didn't have
contacts too, but they were likepeople I wanted to work with.
Lado was on there and it'spretty serendipitous that my
good buddy boy, blue Sam, hadjust met him, had worked with
him because Lado signed aposition and then, without Sam

(04:33):
knowing, he introduced me toLado and from then on I've mixed
his music.
Alright, let's get caffeinated.
My brother in coffee.
Yes.
I'm rated Well, yeah.
So I made him just my specialcoffee and I put a splash of oat
milk.
But the real love is in thecoffee.

Layto (04:53):
Yeah, not a big oat milk guy, oat milk rather, but it's
very good.
I'm just a regular milk guy.
I know I'm a traditionalist inthat regard, but this is very
good.
Not too bold, but also not too.
I like diner coffee.
Okay, I really like shit coffee, like mug coffee.

No, I know what you mean.
It's called functional coffee.

Layto (05:20):
Yeah.

It gets you to where you need to go with no
frills?

Layto (05:25):
Yeah, there's no qualms about it.
My dad used to buy the grossestcoffee growing up.
That's why I think it's kind ofnostalgic to me at this point.
It's cheapy Maxwell, just foryou guys listening and watching.

I just put so much love and effort into the
coffee hand grinding it.
I'm like it's decent, so muchlove into it.
He's like fuck, I love dinercoffee.

Layto (05:46):
No, it's very good.
It's very good.
It's definitely getting the jobdone too.
I'm alert as fuck right now.
This is like my fifth cup, bythe way, I think it's got, oh
shit.

Yeah it's good, though Damn.
Okay, it's my third.

Layto (06:01):
I might have to throw like some booze in here to even
me out shortly.
We're good though.

That's funny.
I should have bought full juice.
Bring anybody who has Lado totheir studio.

Layto (06:12):
Don't forget.

Diner coffee.
Yeah, alright, let's get intoit, bro Lado, thank you so much
for coming.
Cheers, it's so funny, I don'tknow, I just trained myself to
say Lado.
But, what do you go by Like ifyou're just like chilling with
homies?
My birth name Paul Paul yeah.

Layto (06:32):
No good.

But wait whenever you're out at an
industry event.
Lado.

Layto (06:38):
Cool, even like Garrett calls me Lado.
Really.
Yeah, I think it's just likeyou know, it's like the
foundation of how they know me,Garrett?

do you even know his name's Paul?

Layto (06:47):
Yeah, he knows Actually my Shout out Garrett.
Yeah, shout out Garrett.
The tour manager for the tourthat we were just on like found
out my real name and he keptcalling me Paul Because he
thought it was funny.
Like you know, he's like it'snot very star-like.

What but Lado?

Layto (07:06):
Yeah, I think it's better than Paul.

Dude, I love that.
Yeah, I got to see you recentlyplay at the peppermint last day
of the tour.

Layto (07:17):
Yeah.

It was awesome.
Thanks, man, we've been workingtogether for so long on all
these tracks and I mean I sawyou at another event but like
this, one is a tour.
It was fucking awesome to seeour tracks like played.

Layto (07:29):
I know, dude, I'm excited and, like in the fall, we're
going to do like shows.
I think we're going to headlinesome shows, select shows and
we'll do the album, which isgreat, which you know.
For those of you who don't know, he mixes my entire project,
Matt Mix and Mastered Dude.
I feel so fortunate.
Yeah, dude, likewise you do agreat job.
I feel like it took the soundto another level, kind of the

(07:51):
story of my life, like justfinding the right people to kind
of enhance whatever I'm doing.
You know, I've just been verylucky in that regard.

I think that's one of the keys to success.
That's kind of you know,obviously, what this podcast is
about, but it's surroundingyourself with people who do
whatever you want to do at ahigh level and help you get to
that goal.
Yeah, like aligning yourselfwith those people and getting
away from people who are notmoving you towards that.
Yeah, 100%.

Layto (08:18):
I think, like I learned luckily, fortunately, and I
think, just by happenstance, butI've been fortunate enough to
kind of understand that at ayoung age.
Like it's the people around you, you know, you can't do
everything on your own, andespecially in music, which you
know, like there's so manymoving parts where I'm like fuck
, like it's almost overwhelming,like okay, who's going to do
this, who's going to do this?
And I think a lot of artiststry to just delegate too much

(08:39):
individually and it's like no,you kind of need like the right
people to kind of propelwhatever you're doing, because
you're not going to be able todo certain things better than
somebody that's likespecifically niched for that
thing, you know, yeah.
And so, yeah, I've been luckyenough to just be able to focus
on what I need to focus on,which is music and content and
everything else, kind of I trusteverybody else around me, you

(09:01):
know.
So that's been a huge bonus.

Yeah, we'll get into content creation and music
creation and this, and that Iwant to hear so many answers to
questions that I have.
That I know will help people.
But on the topic of findingpeople that are great at certain
niches, there are so manyproducers in this industry that
are so incredibly good Throughthe entire process.
They can mix and master as well, but there's something to be

(09:26):
said about just like being ableto say this is done on
production and passing it tosomebody else Not because maybe
I can do their job better, butI'm not as close to the music as
they are, so I can maybe hearcertain things that will elevate
it.

Layto (09:39):
Yeah, definitely, and, like with our projects, I think
that's been another hugeaddition, because, you know, we
always like joke, we getmixeditis.
But it's like if I have aproducer, myself, garrett
listening to a track and hiringit for a while, I don't even
know if this is good, you know.
So it's always great to haveyou in, and then you parse out
some instruments and it's like,oh shit, it's almost a different

(10:00):
record, but it's always better.
Having somebody who specializesin just mixing and mastering is
like, you know, you're notfocused on the production and
you just have that one thingthat you do very well, which you
know I love.
I think it's so important, youknow, and too many people wear
too many hats with production.
They do you know everythingunder the sun.
It's like, how do you doanything so well if you're doing

(10:22):
everything?
You know?
How could you do one thinggreat?

With that being said, the producer that you're
working with a lot right nowInverness just dangerously good
at pretty much everything.
The.

Layto (10:33):
Wizard of Dawes I call him, I dubbed him that and
that's going to stick.

Yeah, shout out, rob, I love you.
Dude, you are a monster.
Yeah, he's the best, yeah, youthis.
I guess he he EP the project,but I think he produced every
single song on it with otherpeople, right, yeah, every,
every song, yeah, and it soundsso cohesive, so like that's a
great body of work.

(10:58):
Thank you.
I can't believe you guys aren'tcalling it an album.

Layto (11:01):
I don't know where we are .
We are, oh yeah, we did.
It's seven, seven songs.
Initially it was going to befive and then, yeah, we found
out that, like it, there is aseven song thing with Spotify or
whatever, with DSPs, and wejust decided to put on an album,
you know okay, and yeah, Idon't know when something's
called an album or an EP anymoreit's it's so innocuous, but it

(11:25):
is seven songs though, okay,yeah, no, it feels good though,
and he was very instrumental andlike sonically driving whatever
we were trying to say, you know, with alternative psycho, which
is the album, trying to kind oflike blend the sonics with my
lyrics, and every single songand every sound has like a
cohesion, like you said, andit's fucking cool.
It's like what I would listento growing up, where I'm like,

(11:47):
oh my God, like how do you makean album.
It seems so daunting, you know.

I actually it sounds funny because I'm on the
project, but this is the musicthat I would listen to.
Cool.
It really is like straight up.
Especially what I feel like youguys honed in on these tracks
is this thing where the finalhook is like so fucking heavy.
You go into like kind of a notan EDM drop, but it's like a

(12:13):
drop.
It's like it literally dropsout a lead vocal and just goes
hard.

Layto (12:19):
Yeah, it is like an EDM drop kind of, with like a scream
vocal that we always kind ofblend in and it becomes part of
like a synth, which is cool,which is something we were like,
oh, this is sick.
This would be like a niceearmark for the album, which we
don't feel like anyone's reallydoing, you know.

I haven't heard it and it's on almost every
track.
I feel like there's somethinglike that, that I feel like if
you're listening throughout thealbum one, it threads it all
together, but I feel like, as alistener, you're also like, oh
shit, that part's coming.
Yeah.
Like it's going to happen.
I haven't heard this track yet,but I know it's coming.

Layto (12:49):
Yeah, honestly, in hindsight I was like this would
be great for retention.
Hopefully, if they know like,oh shit, there's a drop coming
into like a different part ofthe record, you know that they
can kind of look forward to, asopposed to like the same kind of
like double chorus at the endof each song, you know which is
kind of predictable.
Switch it up a little bitanyways, yeah, I love that.

I love this album, dude.
It'll be out whenever thispodcast is out.
So everything that the viewerseither watching or listening
this album is probably alreadyout and you can go listen to
exactly what we're talking about.
But sitting here today we'reanticipating this shit to fuck
up Spotify and talk and fuckingPinterest, I love that.

(13:31):
So now let's go all the way back.
I want to understand how youwere brought up, kind of some
about your parents, about earlylife.
I want to learn what made youyou, what made you want to get
into music and all the thingsthat I'm sure you gave up and

(13:52):
things that could have been apart of your life, but this is
what took over.

Layto (13:56):
Growing up middle class, lower middle class, tough kind
of upbringing in the sense of,like, you know, kind of chaotic
and but like good family, lovingfamily, and my mother, my
mother and my father workedexceedingly hard, like numerous
jobs to both of them my entirelife.
So from a young age had areally good idea of what a work

(14:17):
ethic is no complaining, no, youknow, no bitching or moaning
about you know putting in thework and just like a good
foundation of you got to getshit done.
You got to work hard.
If you want something in life,you got to work hard at it,
which you know now like is goodfor me to take into music,
because I think a lot of peopleand you know, I think there's

(14:39):
like two different types ofpeople, especially now just kind
of understanding the musicindustry there's people that get
lucky, you know luck intosomething, have a viral hit,
whatever it may be, and don'thave the foundation maybe.
Or they, you know they mightmake a little money and then
they're like, okay, what's?
You know they rest on theirlaurels.
You know, for me it's like, andI don't know if this is a
character fault or if this is agood thing, but I'm never

(15:02):
satisfied in the sense of likeit doesn't matter what it is and
I think we talked about thisearlier like what's next, you
know?
Like are you looking for thealbum coming out, like I should
take a minute and enjoy what wedid, but yeah, like my brain
works in such a way, it's likeI'm on to the next thing and I
want to make sure I beatwhatever we do here.
You know, very competitiveattitude in that regard.

It's very healthy to compete with yourself
and not just look at others.

Layto (15:26):
Yeah, I mean, you know I've done that in the past,
especially in the beginning ofmy career, where I'd be like why
don't I have what the fuck theyhave?
You know, it's like people likeGarrett and people that are in
my circle have done a good jobof like you know I surround
myself with people like mindedpeople who you know are healthy
for me to be around, that haveinstilled like a good, healthy
outlook, got to stay levelheaded.
But yeah, like my upbringingfor sure is instill the really

(15:50):
strong work ethic, at the veryleast.
You know what I might lack incertain skills, or you know
there's a million people thatare probably more talented than
I am but like they're certainlynot going to out work me in my
opinion, you know.
So that's kind of how I have tooperate.
I always kind of operate fromthe standpoint of like I have to
out work the competitionbecause you know they might,
they might have a leg up, abetter voice or, you know, a

(16:12):
better song, whatever it may be,and I like that, you know, I
kind of like I don't know itgives me great, it puts me at
ease, knowing that like at theend of the day, I can just focus
on the work and not have toworry about results, because I
feel like results will come, youknow, given the amount of
effort you put in always as longas it's efficient and smart and

(16:34):
not just like aimlessly doingshit with no results.
You know you got to be.
Yeah, obviously intelligentabout it.
But yeah, definitely from ayoung age got that instilled in
me and have taken that to mycareer.

I love that.
I want to hear what are some ofthe jobs that your mom and your
dad would have done, because itsounds like there are a lot of
them, just whatever they need todo.

Layto (16:57):
Yeah, my mother was a well.
First when I was younger shewas a male woman.
She like at a young age pastthe exam to become a male woman
and that was like reallyimpressive.
She was like 18 and did thatfor like 10 years and then she
had kids and then became wemoved from like the city of
Boston to like a suburb and shebecame a lunch woman.

(17:19):
You know, throughout mychildhood, actually at my school
, and my father worked likethree jobs.
He worked as like a sales repfor a company, an asphalt
company, pricing out drivewaysand shit like that, and then he
was also a custodian at night,you know hustling.
And then he started his ownbusiness when he was like 48, 50

(17:40):
and doing really well.
Handyman stuff, awesome.
Yeah, he's like a natural bornsalesman.
That's another thing Like mymother's super creative and
sweet.
She's like total empath.
My dad's a great guy like, buthe's also like a shark.
He's very, you know, hustler,like we'll find ways to make
money, and I feel like I'vegotten a good kind of scramble

(18:01):
of the two of them.
You know, I got my mom's kindof sensitive creativity at times
and then I got my dad'sbusiness prowess.

Yeah, that's killer.
That's a great concoction there.

Layto (18:09):
Yeah, lucky, lucky me and siblings, you know, beating the
shit out of me at a young ageand you know, toughening me up.
Yeah, talk a little bit aboutthem.
They're great.
Yeah, three siblings.
I got an older brother, oldersister and then a middle brother
and, you know, very similar inthe sense of tough-minded.
You know what?
What do they do?

(18:30):
They're all so different.
My brother was in the militaryfor a while.
Now he like does social work.
My sister works for carecom.
She's like one of the likeAdministration there.
And my other brother owns likea detail company, like a car
detailing company that him and Iused to work Cool.

Yeah, so another entrepreneur, yeah.

Layto (18:48):
Yeah, exactly no one.
And no one doing music oranything.
That's just kind of me.

Yeah, I'm curious.
So okay, that that's what yoursiblings are like and your
parents, but what were some ofthe activities and things that
you did early on in life thatI'm guessing something flexed
your creativity in some way?

Layto (19:07):
Yeah, um, I was actually always into sports Cool, Really
really into sports at a youngage, playing basketball and Uh,
that's why you asked me aboutbasketball.
Yeah, I played.
I played a lot of sportsgrowing up, which I think was
also good to kind of Learn howto work with others and, again,
like the competition thing, yougot to like you really have to
work hard if you want to be onthe team and you know be

(19:28):
successful and you knowself-responsibility, which is
another thing that like I thinklike it's easy to kind of
Especially in music, if shit'snot going well, it's easy to
point blame and be like well,the label is not doing this or
my manager is not doing this,you know, and, like I've, I've
been of the mind of like, whatam I doing?
What can I do?
Don't fucking wallow, don'tcomplain about what others are

(19:50):
doing, just worry about what youcan worry about.
You know it's not, it's notalways easy to do that,
obviously, you know there's thisshit that's not in our control,
you know absolutely.
But it's a good like paradigmto look, you know a good lens to
look through, because thenyou're never really like
Expecting anything from anyoneelse and you can just worry
about what you can.
And then when shit happens,you're like pleasantly surprised

(20:11):
, you know.
Um, yeah, I played a lot ofsports.
I was always into writing,though, you know, at a young age
, poetry, and, like you know, Iloved English, I loved writing,
I loved reading.
I still love reading, um, andso I think that kind of
exercised my creative muscle Toan extent.
And then, yeah, I kind of gotinto music, like at a young age,

(20:31):
but kind of floated around,wasn't super serious about it
until maybe like 17, 18, was itlike bands with friends or not,
even not even just like.
I loved listening to music and Iwould sing privately, but
nothing like.
I would never like sing infront of people or anything like
that you know, you know, youknow mainly hip-hop and rap and
stuff.
I would like I would take likesongs that I heard and I would

(20:52):
always like change the lyrics up.
You know, in my own like Iwould like write new lyrics and
that's, I guess, like that'slike the beginning of being a
lyricist.

That's cool.
Yeah would you try and findlike the, the karaoke version,
or like the, just theinstrumental on youtube, or
anything, or not even like back?

Layto (21:11):
then I would just listen to them on the radio or like on
a cd and then just fucking, likeOn the spot, rewrite lyrics.
You know, but we didn't evenlike have.
I mean it wasn't 1940, but likewe didn't have.
You know, you weren'tdownloading shit from youtube at
that point.

We had lime wire ?
Yeah, absolutely no, it was aplenty of viruses from me too,
yeah man.

Layto (21:32):
I don't want to ask kind of viruses.

Probably from like trying to get like drops
that came out like leaks youknow, Weeks, weeks ahead of time
.
I, I remember, I remember acouple times that like big
albums leaked and do you know ofeach he he's levels.
Well, yeah, I mean there wereplenty of times that you would
or like sandstorm or something,and it would just be like 10

(21:58):
tracks of sandstorm and youthought you had Downloaded the
new, you know whatever Drakealbum or yeah something.
But those aren't the viruses,you know.

Layto (22:08):
I would imagine something else.

That's funny.
Um, okay, so Like 17, 18, why,why, like, what was the Feeling
of?
Like okay, I want to take thisserious, like I want to do music
, like in any capacity, not justrewriting lyrics.

Layto (22:28):
What was the?

impetus of that?

Layto (22:29):
I don't know to be honest , I like I was at college and we
had a like a little booth thatwe could rent out.
I was skipping class and likewent to this little area just to
, honestly, to sleep, and then Iwalked by this Little studio
and I asked like one of theadministrators, I'm like what is
that?
And I go, you can rent out amusic room, like a little booth,
to record in.
And I was like I shouldprobably try this, you know, and

(22:52):
and so what I did was like Ilearned how to use logic and I
went in there and I would justmake like very rudimentary beats
on the piano or some of myfriends from my hometown had
like little piano riffs, andthen I would add like drum kicks
and you know, just very likesuper stock bullshit from logic,
and I'd start constructingsongs.
And then I I very quicklyrealized like okay, what's the
next step?

(23:12):
Like how do I, how do Ieliminate my nonsense producing
and get a real producer?
I knew I knew at least youneeded a producer, and so I
reached out to a bunch ofproducers Again, had some like
you know, very like C levelstuff going on, but I was able
to kind of like cut my teeth andlearn, you know what a good
producer is versus a badproducer, versus like my
production, and then like allright, what else do we need?

(23:33):
We need mixing, we need youknow, so that that was good,
like for me.
That was like six months of menot releasing anything, just
kind of learning, like how to doit.
You know, I knew how to write asong, like I've always written,
but I didn't know how to.
You know I did not allay myvocals in or how my vocal
personally would sound.
You know which keys would workfor me, and so that was like it

(23:54):
was great.
It was like a year and a halfof just cutting my teeth and
learning like shit records,million songs that stink, that
would never get released.
But it's like good for you tojust build on, like you said,
mixing a million sync records.
It's like getting the 10,000hours in, you know.

Yeah, for those listening, we had a little
conversation before this where,yeah, I worked for a company and
between All of the albums thatI mixed and then different
custom tracks that were beingpitched for things, and then
just like random off tracks,like I, I think I mixed about
2000 tracks before Starting myown mixing business and I mean

(24:31):
that's where I'd figured outwhat my sound was, my workflow,
how to interact with somebodyprofessionally, how to deal with
notes, which is a whole, awhole thing, because I need to
figure out how to decipher thenotes.
You know the whole thing.
But this is, this was yourproving ground like yeah let me
just figure out how to do this.

(24:51):
Yeah, totally and where did yougo to college, though?
And?
And what were you going tocollege for, like, if music
wasn't a thing, what, what?
Were you going to be English,really, yeah?
Oh.
I can see it.

Layto (25:04):
Maybe some glasses like English professor, I was
thinking maybe like law.
Down the line I was, I was justBecause I'm an argumentative
person, so I was like maybe thiscould be.

She's like smirking.

Layto (25:21):
I just wasn't even sure I was one of those kids.
I went to school and there's somany people that were like I'm
going for science, I'm going forengineering and I'm like I'm
not very particularly good atanything, like I don't even
quite know what I want to do,and especially at like 18.
I was like I don't even want togo to school, like I have no
idea what I want to do.
I I just felt like it was agiant waste of time and I'm like
I like to read and I like towrite, so I'll go to school for

(25:42):
that.
But I floated around, I went tolike three different schools
and I went to community collegeand then transferred into a
school in Massachusetts and Iactually never finished because
we had a song that did well likemy senior year and I just I
never finished.
I'm like six credit shy.
So give me my fucking honorarydegree.
Yeah right, um that's cool.

Yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll.
We'll get to that, because Iwant to.
I want to hear A little bitmore of how you went from
renting this booth and doingsome sessions here and there.
Like.
I'm guessing you locked in withsomebody that you felt Could
take you where you wanted to go,or at least somebody that you
locked in with and felt goodabout.

Layto (26:24):
Bota, wow, matt Bota.
I found him on sound better and, and believe it or not, so I
worked with a couple people,like an x radio DJ from this
small podong town that I livedin, which he was like 50 great
guy but like, like he was usinglike gear from the 80s and I
remember I did, I did like asong and I'm like what the fuck
it?
Like there has to be a muchmore seamless, like non

(26:46):
antiquated way to do this,otherwise, like I might be out,
yeah, and so then I went onsound better and I'm like, oh,
what a great like wedge websiteto to find other producers and
stuff.
And then in the beginning withwith bota, it was just like work
for hire, didn't know him,obviously, I would like send in
an idea.
He would send an instrumental,I would lay over it and I think
he thought like okay, this kidcan write a song and I knew like

(27:08):
his production was great, justbecause what he would send back.
I'm like, holy fuck, like thisis exactly what I wanted, but I
would get a mix like every month, you know.
And it was just like fuck, likeI wish, slowly and surely, like
we worked on a few songs andthen got familiarized and got
his number and then just kind oflike the relationship evolved
till where I could text them andbut ironically, like the first

(27:31):
song we ever did, um, I put outlike a little e?
P and it just kind of wentbananas on youtube through.
Uh, like those like curatingcompanies, like cloud kid and
strap nation really thoseancillary.
Yeah, like we hired a pr woman,I got a manager as a whole
separate story.
But I interned for a company Umactually here I won't say the

(27:52):
name because I don't get introuble but and they put me at
the front desk and at the frontdesk I had like Not legal at all
, but I had access to like allthe managers of all the big
artists and, uh, I likescreenshot at all of them.
And so when I, when I was donewith my internship, I went home
and I emailed all of them justdemos of my shit, like literally
like thousands of emails, and Igot like three responses and

(28:15):
then one of the three was thismanager who became my initial
manager, who kind of like maybehad heard something and like
liked me and liked my tenacity,and he's like let's put out a
project.
And we put out a project.
And then we hired this pr womanand she got all those like
youtube uh Channels to post myshit and just went kind of

(28:35):
fucking nuts.
Like the first day it got likelike 10 000 subs.
Wow, it was crazy.
It was a song called littlepoor me, which isn't even like
my sound anymore, but for somereason, just by, like pure
serendipity, it kind of did well, and and that's that is the
moment where I was like okay,this could be, maybe it could be
a career.

I didn't even know that that's that's so cool.
Yeah, I feel like One thing Ididn't tell you, but on this
podcast I don't do research.
Good.
I.
I want to have a genuineconversation and not an
interview.
Yeah, cool and Pretty much.
I have people on here I workwith, so I know some you know,
and we have good interaction,whatnot, but I don't do the deep
digging that some other peopledo with interviews, and so

(29:17):
that's really fucking cool tohear.
So Matt made this track withyou.
Yeah, it's called little poorme.
That's, that's awesome.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, so this thing pops andthat's your senior year.

Layto (29:29):
Yeah wow.
Yeah, that's cool, yeah, and uh,I was 2018, um, and then I,
what happened was I put out somemusic that wasn't really
aligned with that song.
That was like the one track,the outlier track on the album,
and then a lot of the shit waskind of like hip-hop, kind of
EDM.
It just like there was nocohesion.

(29:50):
I had no idea what the fuck Iwas doing.
That didn't do so well, becauseI put out that song and I'm
like this is gonna be fuckingeasy, like holy crap, I thought
I had like the Midas touch, youknow, and far from it.
You know, um, and it took melike, and another thing, too,
was I wasn't, I didn't have likethe proper Uh, guidance in the

(30:12):
sense that I understood likelike this is where Garrett
really like levels me up,because he understands like
release scheduling and you know,like staying on content,
staying on put out a song everymonth.
You know, if you're not like ata certain level, like there's so
many artists that are trying toclamor to the top, it's like if
you're not front of mind, likeyou're falling back.
So it's like a record everymonth type of thing, which, you

(30:34):
know, took me a couple years tokind of like Get serious about
to be honest and and get seriousabout my career and not be like
just floating around like putout a song and go fuck off with
my friends.
And you know like I lovewriting music and and I found
that to be like a really greatoutlet outlet.
But I wasn't like super seriousabout my life and at that time
I was kind of kind of fuckingoff a little bit and it's really

(30:57):
tough, dude.

I mean, this is not a full-time job.
It's like five, five people'sworth of full-time job.
It's, it's a lifestyle.
It is you're really serious,like you have to give up
everything.

Layto (31:08):
Yeah, I'm not yeah, and luckily, like you know, in that
vein, having somebody likeGarrett and, like you know,
honestly, like even my contentguy, Tommy, tommy, kelly, shout
out to Tommy, like I feel like Igot Four or five people and you
included honestly, like whereit's like 24-7, drop everything.

(31:29):
We're doing.
Like if something needs to getdown, we get it done.
Like employing ingenuity,constant phone calls it is like
24-7, you know which.
I had to kind of get used tothat and and I had a moment
where I had to realize is thislike what I want to do?
I had a really bad show, like acouple years ago in Chicago and
he kind of sat me down and waslike dude, do you want to do

(31:51):
this?
And if so, like you need to getserious about your life.
And from that point forward Iwas like all right, I'm moving
to LA, I'm fucking, I'm notfucking around with friends
anymore, I'm gonna get serious.
You know, and that's one shitkind of like Not just resting on
the laurels of old music waslike, okay, let's put out some
music that people will fuck with.
And, you know, just keep tryingto beat the record and not

(32:13):
think about the song that wejust put out.
Move on to the next one.
Beat the song you know keepwriting, keep writing, keep
writing.
Yeah, it's been good um, Wait.

So where in the story did you meet Garrett?
Because we'll talk about him alittle bit.
I mean like we were in 2017,2018, just now, right.

Layto (32:29):
Yeah, yeah, I would say like 20.
When do we meet him?
Like 2020, like three, likethree and a half years ago, at
this point?

Okay, so I do that, you know maybe that skips
forward a little bit.

Layto (32:39):
Yeah well, there was like a two-year period where I was
with that other manager where,like I didn't really understand
what I was doing.
That wasn't a great fit.
Um between him and I, we wouldkind of clash.
I was super.
Like you know, in hindsight Iwas kind of like pesty.
I expected things and and now,like you know where, where I am
now in the sense of likeunderstanding that you don't
just like, you're not justgiving shit.

(33:01):
I was kind of like impulsivewith him, which I can imagine
pro is so annoying to him.
Like I didn't even like bringin any money for him and I was
just like just badgering him.

I'm like we should get this, we should get
this.
Yeah, you know it's tough.
It's tough because Not ever wedon't see everything that
managers do.
Yeah.
I mean, I had a conversationwith mine just recently.
Spencer, I fucking love him,he's amazing, but I don't see
everything that he does behindthe curtain, and I'm not a micro
manager.
But At a certain point you wantto check in and you're like,

(33:30):
hey, man, you know what's goingon with this, that and the other
, and we, we just don't know Allthat they do.
And then, at the end of the day, if they're, if they're not
making any money, they'reworking for free.

Layto (33:42):
Yeah, totally, you know totally well.
Ironically, like with him I dosee everything now, because him
and I are like good friends atthis point, like really good
friends, and and like, so he,you know, I know like he'll, he
clues me and we talk every daylike and and by seeing how much
he does, it gave me anappreciation of like okay, like,
if he's working this hard, whatthe fuck am I doing?

(34:02):
You know, I better work twiceas hard, you know, um, but like,
there was a two-year periodwhere, uh, yeah, it wasn't, just
wasn't a great fit.
I parted ways with my othermanager and I was kind of in
transit and, uh, this kid frommy hometown, who's like not at
all related to music, and notsomebody like that you would
ever think would understandanything about music, hit me up

(34:25):
and he's like you should reachout to this dude, garrett, who
works at republic.
And so I was like, and he'sfrom the same area, like a town
over.
We actually live on the sameroad, like 10 minutes apart from
each other.
Wow, yeah, and I was like okay,and I and I knew like if I DM'd
him and I mentioned where welived, he would respond because
it's such a small community andit's like fucking cool if

(34:45):
someone's doing something fromthere.
So totally yeah, he did, andand I met him like a day before
covid in New York City, a daybefore everything got shut down
which is ironic.

It hit hard, yeah, new.

Layto (34:55):
York, I wouldn't have been able to meet him, which is
kind of also serendipitous.
But yeah, we her and I drove mydad, remember my dad drove us
down there and we had a dinnerwith him and another guy that
was managing me at the timethrough republic um, his partner
at the time.

And so you had a manager in between.

Layto (35:12):
No, I had.
I had no managers.
It was me, garrett, and anotherdude that worked at republic,
steve, who initially was likeco-managing, but now it's just
garratt and I.
But uh, yeah, just from the,just from the jump, like him and
I just connected and and justslowly evolved into like friends
and Uh, we just see eye to eyeand a lot of things and and then
, like musically, he has areally good ear, so he really a

(35:34):
and r's records with me and itjust Made shit like way more fun
and easy in the sense of likecreating you know, yeah.

Yeah, I mean he as a manager not many managers
like, give me pinpointed notesand he does, and because
everybody knows, yeah, but Imean he, I like that, he has an
opinion, yeah, and he's gottaste, and you know I mean, and
he can also talk More analytical.

(36:02):
So it's not like thismiscellaneous thing that I have
to decipher, I mean, which somemanagers or some a and r's give
you kind of things like that no,he's like this thing, you know,
do this to that.
Yeah, it's like I love that.

Layto (36:16):
That's great, I know elevates the record.
Yeah, totally yeah, we do itwith the notes with mixing, we
do it with the notes withproduction and we do it with
everything marketing plan, like.
We get very granular with witheverything we do, which you know
, I'm not innately like that, Isuppose, but he's kind of like,
kind of made me like that incertain ways and I don't know,

(36:37):
it's been good To to be able tolook at things from like an
analytical perspective.
Plus, I think him coming from alabel, he really has like a A
leg up, knowing what's what'scutting edge and you know with
the importance of tick tock andthen how to like Look at those
numbers and understand how ittranslates and not just like
doing random shit but nichingdown and Just all sorts of
random shit that really honestlymatters when you're talking

(36:59):
about promoting a record or, youknow, building your, your brand
as an artist.
It's like I'm very fortunatehonestly in that, in that regard
to to have somebody like him toyou know like propel what I'm
doing in the right way, like wesaid earlier, working
efficiently and that's it'sawesome you know for sure.

Um, so what is?
We talked about the track thathad you leave college, but what
is the the first track?
I mean you probably made somedecent money off that if it
streamed well, or you made somemoney, but but but what was the
first track that like likereally popped off, hounding yeah

(37:42):
and um, I mean I can tell mystory about that because I I've
never told you this.
But I want to hear from you,like how, how did that track
come about?
And like what was the wholetrajectory of from start to pop
it off?

Layto (37:55):
I could imagine you maybe thought that that track was
about a woman.
I I didn't.

No, I didn't, like I'll.
I'll be honest with you, Idon't fucking hear words, man.
Yeah, you're just so mixcentric, it's.
It's not even that I am soabout the vibe.
This sounds miscellaneous andgoofy and probably people listen
will be like Wait, dude, youare Editing and eqing and this
and that like the vocal.

(38:21):
But the thing is is I just Iwant the instrumental to feel
Amazing and I want the vocal tofeel amazing with that and I'll
move together and I want you tobe able to hear every word, but
I can.
Sometimes I don't even knowwhat the words are saying.
It's interesting I mean untilthe record is done and I'm

(38:42):
listening in my car and cruisingaround.
Then I can listen to the words,but I'm focused on making it
just feel a certain way.
Do you have a hard time likelistening to?

Layto (38:51):
what you mix.
Like if you will, you listenback to a record that we worked
on and you're like, oh fuck, Iwish I Like are you able to
listen to what you are gonna.

Yeah, uh, early on.
I wasn't early on like wheneverI, I don't know.
I don't know, whenever I wasjust like putting out maybe the
first like 100 or so tracks of,just like me, my mixing business
not for the same company, butyeah, I definitely did I kept on
hearing things that I couldhave done better.

(39:23):
But then I guess I startedseeing people really fucking
resonating with the records LikeI'd be out at you know wherever
just to show out somewhere.
And then I'd bump into somebodydude, I love this so-and-so
record.
You, dude, you're mixed on it,holy crap, and I'm like oh man
that's the one that I thought Icould have done better.
And then you realize nobodygives a fuck.

(39:44):
No, I know that's the thing.
If it sounds good, if there'slike a certain threshold of good
, that's what we're aiming for,it needs to feel great.
It doesn't have to sonically bethe fucking Mona Lisa.

Layto (40:01):
Well, that's with like hiring you.
And how do we meet through BoyBlue?
Yeah, which is a shout out tohim, which I remember, when he
kind of floated you and I'm like, yeah, maybe.
And then, like we met andworking with you initially, I
was like I remember having aconversation with Garrett where
I'm like, oh, we've crossed overinto like this could be on the
radio, Not saying it's going tobe, but it's like sonically it

(40:23):
could be and that's all I'veever wanted.
It's like as long as I'm in thearena, like there's no eyes to
be dotted or teeth to be crossed, it's there, and then it's up
to other random fucking shit tohappen, but it's like as long as
it's there, it's just perfect,you know, and so that's I
totally agree.
And it's like now I can listenback to what we've and I can
appreciate it, Whereas like someof my older shit, you know,

(40:46):
sometimes I hear something I'mlike, fuck, I wish I did
something differently there.

You know, I think every track that I've
worked on of yours could play onthe radio.
I really think that, liketruthfully, but you know, then
it's like up to the radio, gods.
Yeah the radio gods.
But my story with Hounden funnyenough, it came up on a
playlist.
I don't know which playlist, Imean it was too long ago at this

(41:10):
point, but I put a little hearton it.
You know, I liked it on Spotify.
Oh, before you knew me.
Yeah, oh, wow.
And not just that.
My previous managers had me dolike this kind of homework thing
where I would basically go andfind artists that I wanted to
work with, and Hounden and Ladowas on that list.

(41:32):
No no shit, funny enough, and Ijust didn't have a way to reach
you.
I mean, you weren't withposition, it was before that I
had no way to reach you.
And it's so funny because Samdidn't know that boy blue, but
whenever he was like bro, I gotto introduce you to Lado, he's
looking for a mixer.
I was like Lado, lado.
And then I looked and I waslike, oh fuck, hounden, wow, man

(41:56):
, I love this track.
That's crazy.
And so now we're here.

Layto (41:59):
Wow, that's so weird.
I didn't know that.

Yeah, we can.
Even whenever we're done withthis, we'll look on my Spotify
and it's-.

Layto (42:03):
I believe you.
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's socool.

I loved that track.
Like whenever I heard it I waslike oh man, thank you, this is
the real deal.
So now I get to hear it.
What is?
What's the story?

Layto (42:15):
The story is that the manager that I, the initial
manager that I had we had afalling out and I had like no
money and I was working as a cardetailer and I don't know how
much I want to say about this,to be honest.
But I was in a bit of a pinchand I was getting like kind of I

(42:37):
was trying to get out of mysunset clause with him and I was
kind of getting like you knowgetting shit from him and you
know payouts and whatnot.
I didn't have any contract withhim.
And I was starting to talk toGarrett and I was like fuck man,
like this guy's asking me topay him this much for these
records and then all futurerecords moving forward, which
just like wasn't, wasn'tappropriate, considering like I

(43:00):
worked with him on like oneproject and I was just like
fucking angry as hell and feltstuck and I had no money.
I didn't realize like I signedlike a deal with TrabNation for
my first EP from that firstrecord that I thought like was
going to change my life andended up, like you know, you get
in advance for like X amount ofdollars, which is really
nothing, and then you owe thelabel so much money and incurred

(43:23):
costs, you know, for five yearsor whatever.
So I was like in the hole,essentially, had no money,
working a shit job detailingcars in Massachusetts where it's
cold, fucking eight and a halfmonths out of the year, you know
, and I was just so angry.
He was like threatening legalaction.
I'm like what the fuck?
I barely have like a pot topiss in, and that's.

(43:43):
I literally wrote it on mylunch break on a little notepad.
I wrote the whole thing in likefive minutes.
Crazy, just so, fucking angry,just you know.
And I had already had aninstrumental from Matt.
That was really cool that I waskind of like sitting on and I
had just watched the Elvisdocumentary, the Preacher, and

(44:07):
so I had like Elvis kind of inmy subconscious and that's where
I got the you ain't nothinglike kind of like Elvis growl,
where I was like man.
I'll put this in the record.

Hounden.

Layto (44:16):
Hounden.
And then I called it Houndenand it was.
Hounden, because I was beinghounded by my previous manager.

So it just kind of and you ain't nothing but a
hound dog.

Layto (44:24):
Yeah, you ain't nothing but a hound and ass bitch.
For this one Right.
But yeah, it was very kind ofserendipitous, it felt right.
It's one of those things where,like you know, I knew it was
gonna do well.
Even with I had Little Pormiethat did well.
I had some other records thatlike did well, this record
beauty.
So I had like a somewhat of anaudience, nothing big at all,

(44:44):
but like for me it was like holyshit, I have fans and I just
knew zero promotion, zeromarketing, zero exposure, zero
profile.
Wow, I just put it out and I'mlike, oh, this is gonna fucking
smoke.
I don't know why.
I just have a feelingintuitively put it out and it
like did super well.
For me it's all relative,obviously, but like for my 40

(45:06):
millions a lot.

I don't what's it out now on Spotify alone it's
up there 40 million or so.
Yeah, but the thing is is if wecould use something like Muzo.
Do you know Muzoai or Muzo?

Layto (45:16):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

If you could check all socials or all
platforms, I bet it's closer to100 million.

Layto (45:23):
I think it is with like YouTube, with other channels
reposting it and shit.
Oh then, for sure.

I mean dude, that's a big sound.

Layto (45:30):
Yeah, I mean, and you know it was able to.
You know it was kind of one ofthose things where it's like, oh
okay, like I have another songnow, where it's like now it's
like a career, you know, it'snot just like I had one song in
2018, you know, yeah, and it waspersonal.
I think like ultimately, likewith music and from what I've
come to understand, isauthenticity.

(45:51):
That's sort of like.
One of the things I knew waslike like opening up the first

(46:17):
hymn, like reading from it,which is kind of funny, but
that's part of the irony.
It's like it's not about a girl, it's about a fucking guy that
used to manage me, you know.

Wow, yeah, we gotta push that little bit right
there like on socials, becauseI mean that's cool, I like that.
It could be taken manydifferent ways.

Layto (46:37):
Yeah, it's very interpretive, which I think is
good.
I think all great art is.

Yeah, I agree yeah, but it's a superpower to
be able to channel that angerinto a pen on a paper Like
that's very difficult to do.

Layto (46:52):
Yeah, I mean I don't know where it came from.
To be honest, Like truly, Imean people have asked me that
and I'm just like I don't know.
Just kind of pour it out, to behonest.
You know it's one of thosethings like every now and again
you get a record.
There's certain rights you havewhere it's like, oh, this is
very productive, like okay,here's the formula, here's what
we're gonna do.
And then there's just thoserights where it's just five
minutes, everything from theheart.

(47:13):
You don't change one lyric.
You know that was one of thosetimes.
Don't know where it comes from.
I love that.

Yeah, that's the way it's supposed to be.
I don't think you're reallysupposed to know, though I did
listen to a little.
I need to go back and listen tomore of it, but there was a
podcast, the Zach Sang Show.
Do you know?
Have you heard of it?

Layto (47:32):
Yeah.

Labyrinth was on there I mean just one of the
greatest producers ever but hewas talking about how he
channels that feeling more often.
I need to go back and listenmore, but I think that he
describes how he figures out howto channel that.
It's like it's obviously theability to get into flow state.
That's what you know.

(47:53):
It's like where you're notthinking, just doing, but being
able to do it more often.
With something like that, likeI can get it in mixing, it takes
me only five minutes once I sitdown.
I'm there Like nothing elsematters in the world.
But to be able to be alightning rod for creativity, I
think that that's a different.
It's a different way of tappinginto flow state.

(48:16):
Yeah.

Layto (48:17):
It's like you gotta be able to.
I think part of being a goodartist is like taking
dysfunction and I think likepart of the reason why, like a
lot of artists that you see,like before and even now, like a
lot of them are fucked up andit's like they have an ability
to like channel those fucked upexperiences.
I think you know, like I don'tthink there's a whole lot of

(48:38):
like cookie cutter artists thatdo nine to fives.
It's like you kind of need likethat experiential knowledge, I
think, and you're able to like Ithink the skill is like being
able to channel thosedysfunctional moments or trauma
or whatever it is, into like acreative space, you know.
But then you do need thediscipline to like sit down and
write, and you know there is alevel of discipline that comes
with writing.

(48:58):
It's not all like you knowwriting in five minutes.
Like there are rights that aremore painstaking and you need to
get through those as well.
But yeah, I think it is likechanneling a lot of those
emotions that everybody has, butbeing able to like be a liaison
between the emotions and a song, it's like you're kind of like
facilitating it.

You know, Right, yeah, yeah, you are literally
just channeling whatever thatthing is.
It's like, from what I've heard, you are just removing yourself
from what's going on and you'reallowing whatever the thing is
to channel through you into thepage that's interesting.

Layto (49:32):
It's a good way to look at it, I think, with writing too
, like especially like when Igot to LA, like, so before that
I was always like writing aloneyou know solitary writing where
it's like I don't want to showanybody until it's done.
I'm kind of embarrassed to saythis word, which is so weird to
think, you know.
But it's kind of like when youlike a song that's kind of like
corny and you get nervous aboutit and you think when you think

(49:53):
about it like deeper, you'relike why would I care what
somebody thinks?
What's going into my ears, likewhy is that embarrassing, you
know.
But, it's the same thing withlike song writing, where it's
kind of like it's vulnerable,you know.
But one good thing from beingin LA was like being able to try
to channel those flow statemoments with other people doing
rights, like with, you know,with Sam and like Rob, and it's

(50:16):
like it's so much more fun.
But it takes a while to get tolet your guard down and be like,
okay, like I'm going on awriting session, I'm not going
to be nervous to float a lyricor a line, you know.
And once you get over that it'slike, oh my God, this is way
more collaborative.
It's not so boring and scary,you know, and solitary.
I think it's way more fun withother people.
I don't even know if you askeda question about that, but I

(50:38):
just went off on a fuckingtangent.
I love it it's good shit.

Now I think it would be good to talk about as
long as it makes sensechronologically here how did
position come about?
Cause you're signed to them asan artist, you have your
publishing with position and,for those of you listening and
watching, position is or wasknown as pretty much one of the

(51:04):
biggest sync publishers around.
Then they started moving intojust signing artists and
producers and wanting to moveforward in like the artist space
, and I think that you are oneof the first, and definitely one
that they're pushing super hard.
So, yeah, I want to hear howthat came about and kind of how
that changed.

(51:25):
What's going on in your world?

Layto (51:27):
Yeah, it's all timing because I think initially after
actually before I met Garrett,we were just talking online and
he actually set up a meetingwith me and Mark.
I was going to fly out to LAand then the pandemic hit and
that got squashed.
But I signed a pub deal becauseof like previous catalog
records and they thought likeokay, like maybe he could make

(51:50):
money on the writing side, butmy artist profile wasn't quite
as where it is now and so likeinitially I think like a year
and a half before I signed as anartist and I don't even think
they had a label at the time itwas just purely like signing my
pub to them and hopefully doingsome rights and maybe some sync
stuff and just another way tolike have a career, so to speak.

Yeah, you can totally hear the cinematic sync
quality and hounding.
Let's just take that forinstance.

Layto (52:18):
I mean, I can say that we sinkable yeah.
I know and I wanted to dorecords like kind of like NF was
kind of although I don't reallylisten to him as much Like I
liked the idea of like big kindof like I listened to like a lot
of scores Like that's what I'dlike to listen to.
So I was like, oh, would it becool of like incorporating like
orchestral scory type shit butwith like hip hop 808s and like

(52:44):
poppy lyrics and like dark kindof fucked up lyrics, swearing
and stuff like that.
I'm like that's kind of aninteresting juxtaposition.
That was like another thing.
Like at school, being like thiswould be cool I don't think
anyone's doing this Just likeplanting seeds of like oh my God
, I could do something different.
But yeah, like he set up thewriting session and I had the
meeting with Mark.
It fell through but we keptlike a line of communication

(53:06):
open.
Then they signed me to a pubdeal deal, like a year later
maybe I think a year and a halfbefore I signed as a label
artist.
And then came about them, youknow, starting their own label
service and at that point we hadalready scaled quite a bit, me
and Garrett and I, through justmore songs in the catalog.
Some shit did.
Well, we were able to, like youknow, scale the Spotify numbers

(53:27):
, just perfect storm.
Then they signed, you know, andhere we are, you know, yeah.

I wanna clarify for people because maybe some
people don't know what sync is.
But sync synchronizationbasically adds trailers, promos
in show anything with video.
You have that company licensingmusic from a publisher, like
position, and you can make anice upfront fee and sometimes,

(53:58):
if it's not a buyout, whichmeans that you get only a one
time fee, you get royalties onthe backend whenever it plays.
So amazing thing for artists orwriters or artists that wanna
do a side project that doesn'tlike interfere with their artist
work to make money.
So position is like reallythat's their thing.
So yeah, I totally yeah, I gethow unfortunately, the pandemic

(54:25):
would throw a curve ball there.
But so things have, I mean theyseemingly are great.
You have, I think.
Did you say Mike?
Yeah, mike Torres set you upwith Mike Torres and A&R at
position.
Set you up with Rob who'sInverness right, sam?

Layto (54:41):
Rob, I think.

Brandon's everybody.

Layto (54:43):
Yeah, he's fucking great, oh, Brandon.

Brandon yeah.

Layto (54:46):
Brandon co-wrote a lot of the records on the album.
Yeah, Brandon, love you buddy,he's the best.
I mean he honestly might be thebest songwriter I've worked
with.
Really, yeah, he's great.
And just quick fucking flows.
He's just so creative.
You know, learned a lot fromhim.

That's awesome.
Yeah, I love him as a person.
Of course, I haven't been in aroom with him, but I mean I hear
all the stuff he's on and it'salways great yeah it's funny.

Layto (55:08):
I mean it's like a lot of it's so much as chemistry, you
know, but it seems like you know, inverness me, him, have a good
connection for whatever reason.
We just kind of it's like thatflow state thing.
It just feels right, you know,and it seems like every time we
get in a session we get, youknow, one or two records that
we're like, oh fuck, this isthis is gonna be a bigger song.
You know you, you, what afeeling.
It's such a feeling.
But, like also with thepandemic although it threw a

(55:32):
curveball as you were sayingthat, I was just thinking like
such a blessing because actuallyyou know, garrett, who was in
New York City, like came back toMassachusetts and then I was in
Massachusetts.
We spent so much time together,like every day, curating the
sound.
You know him kicking my assinto making more music and
content and just thinking aboutthe future.

(55:54):
It was like two years of thatwhich was such a fucking in
hindsight was like so importantfor us to get familiarized with
each other and to like for me tolearn how to work properly and
have a good work ethic.
It was like boot camp, you know.
So it kind of led to this,which is like I feel like
everything really does happenfor a reason.
You know, had that not happened, like I wouldn't have been able

(56:16):
to spend time with him,wouldn't have been as close,
wouldn't have been able to, youknow, make records together,
many A&Rs, like every record youknow, so I think perfect timing
with everything to be honest.

For sure.
Yeah, I think a lot of thepeople I've talked to it like we
have to say like obviouslyfinancially.
I know that COVID heard a lotof people.

Layto (56:40):
Yeah.

There were a lot of deaths terrible things that
came with it, but a lot of thepeople that I've talked to not
just on this podcast but just ingeneral, utilized that time so
efficiently.
A lot of the people that I workwith popped off during the
pandemic because they didn't sitdown and take it easy.
That was like turbo.

(57:01):
Yeah, I mean yeah, they justutilized the time well, like you
did.

Layto (57:05):
Yeah, and I mean, like you said, like obviously, like
we're fortunate enough to beable to just like make music in
our home, or, you know, it'slike there's so many jobs that
like you couldn't get into workor whatever, so like I'm fully
aware that, like we're veryfortunate in that regard.
But yeah, I mean, we actuallyrenovated my house.
I had like a little room thatwe turned into a studio, just
cut records, you know, couldwork remotely, it was fine.

(57:28):
Nothing fucking changed.
Yeah, you know, if anything, itwas like more efficient because
I was home.
It wasn't like I'll have todrive to a studio.
Well, which I prefer.
You know, I don't want to dostuff at home, I'd rather have
that be like a reprieve.
But it was great, you know.

Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I was working at astudio before the pandemic and
whenever the pandemic hit Ibrought all that home and I
never went back.

Layto (57:53):
I get a six studio.
Thank you.

Yeah, I mean it's, I guess, out of the house.
Like I have to actuallyphysically walk out of the house
.
It does feel like I'm goingsomewhere.

Layto (58:02):
Yeah, but like if you need At least you had to put
pants on.

Exactly, but if somebody needs notes, there's
not like a 20 minute drive.
Mm-hmm.
You know.
So, yeah, one thing I'mthinking here is I want I want
people listening to this tounderstand what it feels like to
lock in with a producer andreally be on the same page

(58:24):
creatively.
All of that and what I'mleading to here is like I love
Rob and Vanessa is a good I meannot only a good friend, but I
collaborate with him all thetime.
I get to mix all sorts of stuffwith him and, yeah, I want
people to understand what thatfeels like whenever you just

(58:45):
click with somebody and maybe tohelp people listening
understand if somebody is rightor wrong to produce their record
and especially to EP theirrecord.

Layto (58:59):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I guess I want to beclear, like I guess you don't
personally need to like somebodyto do good work with them.
You know, like you couldostensibly like hate your
producer's guts, but if he doesa great, he or she does a great
job.
It's like, and it works, itworks you know, because it's
like you can separate music frompersonality or from friendship,

(59:21):
although, like it is.
I think it is like such a vibething with working with people,
and most people are not going towork with you if you're an
asshole, if they don't get alongCause there's just so many
people to work with, like whywould you work with somebody
that you don't get along with?
Yeah.
You know, but I think at likethe higher levels, that I don't
think that matters as much.
It's like whatever I get.
I think it's not dissimilarfrom like when you meet somebody

(59:43):
that you're like.
You know this is going to soundweird, like if you're going on
a date with somebody or if it'slike you know a romantic
relationship.
It's like when you click withsomebody, it just feels right,
you don't think about time, youdon't think about, you're not
worried about what you're saying, it just feels right and you
kind of know.
And it's like not dissimilarfrom a producer or a writer

(01:00:04):
where it's just like you justclick intellectually and you're
kind of speaking the samelanguage and it's flow state.
Like you said, it just feelsgood.
If you're like, you get a warmfeeling.
You know it's basically that,but like without the romantic
aspect of it.
It's like a platonic version ofthat where, or like a good
friend that you make when you'reyounger, where you just feel

(01:00:25):
you just click, you know.
That's very much how it is in myopinion.

Austin Seltzer (01:00:30):
You know I mean, I can't speak for others, but
Do you know that, from the firstsession though, With him.

Layto (01:00:35):
I did With Andradez.
What did I do with him?
Yeah, I did a freak out andsave yourself with him, like
first day, and with Bren, andsame thing was like Same vibe.
You know, like he would.
He would see, would hum amelody and then I would add on
it and he'd be like, oh, that'sfucking sick.

(01:00:55):
And then this lyric and I'mlike, oh, let's add this.
And then, like it was like 10minutes and I think I was
texting her.
I'm like this guy's a fuckingman.
You know, and it just felt like,felt good, felt right, you know
.
And then, after you break theice in that regard, it's like
smooth sailing, you know,because you know you're speaking
the same language.
Rob like could hear what Iwanted to do, would add to it

(01:01:16):
has his own ideas, implementsthem.
They're always sick.
He like hums melodies.
He's like what do you thinkabout this?
We did bed with a psycho.
He had like the starter.
It was just like he's literallyhumming something.
He's like Psycho.
I'm like what was that?
That with a psycho could be asick title.
And he's like, oh, and if youdid this?
And he's like, let's get sexywith it, let's get fucking weird
.
And I'm like, yeah, let's getweird with it.

(01:01:36):
So it's just like we get along,we laugh and shit, we like we
fuck around with each other, andthen it turns into something
like bigger.
It's like, oh shit, let'sactually do a record like this.

Such a chemistry thing, in my opinion, yeah you
know yeah, I that I can, becauseI know both of you I can
totally see well, actually allthree of you I can totally see
how that that went down, like inmy head at least.
Yeah, I hope I hope peoplelistening to that Take away that
.
I really do think that probablyon the first session you can

(01:02:09):
feel if this is a great match ornot.
Actually, probably within likethe first sentence, or sitting
down, like immediately, the vibeis either there or not, yeah,
and I know that somebody mayhave had a bad day, something
terrible happened and they're inthis session and I get you.
Sometimes you just got toexcuse life.
But I Still think that there'sprobably some things that you

(01:02:32):
could pick up on.
Like man, I really love thisperson's energy, what they're
bringing to the table, how Ilyrically match with him, like
with Brandon, yeah, yeah, andthen.
You just double down on it, youjust keep on going back to them.
Yeah.
I think that that's the way,that maybe the first record is
not the best and maybe thesecond's not, but you know it's

(01:02:54):
there.
Yeah if you just keep on goingand don't give up on that person
or that, that relationship, Ithink you can make some really
good stuff.

Layto (01:03:02):
Yeah, I agree and, and I think another thing too was it's
like the mixing 2000 songsthing.
Like I came out here for onesummer and I was in a session
like every day with differentproducers, and I think part of
the reason they did that was forthat exact point was to Kind of
like weed out who I maybe don'twork well with, who I work well
with, you know.
And Mike said that he's likefind the you know three or four

(01:03:24):
people that you really fuck with, which was good, because I
needed, like a barometer, youknow, I needed to know what the
measuring stick was, you know.
And so At the end of thesession, at the end of the Two
months, it was like yep, white,blue and very nice, cool Brandon
Burnett, like this is who Iwant to work with.
You know, there's like four orfive people out of like the 40,

(01:03:48):
but I mean it sounds like crazy,but it's like obviously
everybody at this level iscompetent and can do a record,
but it's so much like has to bethe vibe.
I have to understand what youwant to do.
It's just everybody's sodifferent, you know.
Yeah.

Yeah, that's a perfect way to put it.
Hmm, okay, oh cool.
Now I'm curious.
Wait, I gotta.
I just limits Like fear areoften an illusion.
That's what you wrote up on thethe chart board.
I want to.
Why is that what you chose ofall things to write?

Layto (01:04:21):
We were just talking about this, I was like I should
get this tattooed on me.
I'm a huge hoop fan.
This is a Michael Jordan quote,okay, from his enshrinement,
his hall of fame enshrinement,and I always liked that quote
because it resonates with me,because it's like I Think for me
feeling like kind of like anoutsider, like I didn't grow up
in music and you know a smalltown, it's like it can be kind

(01:04:47):
of daunting to think like how amI gonna make it?
you know, and I kind of live bythose, that type of sentiment
where it's it's all justrelative and it's all in your
head like you can do anythingyou want.
I really believe that you knowwithin reason and you know
granted, you're healthy and shit, which I've been fortunate
enough to be but, like, with allof those parameters set, I

(01:05:08):
really believe you can doanything you want.
It's not like something I justsay and wish for, like I truly
firmly believe that and so I.
I love that quote.

I mean it's great.
It's great.
How, with that quote in mind,like how do you go about
Acknowledging a limit like acurrent limit, a mental limit,
and how do you go about likebreaking it?
Because I feel like, if, if wecould, if we could help people
figure that out I mean myselfincluded that's a, that's a

(01:05:44):
cheat code for life.

Layto (01:05:45):
Yeah, well, I think, knowing what you're good at like
we said earlier, like employingthe right people in my life,
that you know, am I gonna be agreat manager, as good as my
manager?
No, am I gonna do Mixing andmastering?
No, but like what I can do,what I'm good at, like, do it to

(01:06:05):
the best of my abilities anddon't get caught up in other
people doing it.
You know, oh, my god, thisperson's so far ahead of me,
it's like it doesn't matter.
You know, don't be, don'toperate in fear, don't, don't
not do something because you'reworried about failing.
You know, rather, do somethingbecause it could succeed.
It's kind of how I have trainedmyself to think and, like you

(01:06:29):
know, I wasn't and I still havemy moments, but like I Used to
operate in fear and shitwouldn't happen.
And now I'm, and I've just kindof like trained myself to be
like it will happen if I put inthe adequate amount of time and
even if it doesn't happen, likesomething else will happen.
You know, along the way, givenyou know the proficient work

(01:06:51):
that you put in.
So I just like to remind myselfOf shit like that, you know,
kind of daily, and I'm not oneof these people that reads
quotes on Facebook.
But it's like there's certainlittle like axioms that I kind
of try to live my life by, youknow, and and not straight too
far from.

Yeah, I love that.
I guess something kind of justlike dovetailing off of that.
Recently you I mean you'retearing up tiktok.
It's like really popping offand I I want us to dissect that
a little bit, and Probablythere's a lot that we can't
dissect because it's really justa crap shoot.

(01:07:30):
You know, it's just liketossing a coin up there.
But Did, did you recently starta new tiktok, or what, what?
Yeah, what's going down withthat?

Layto (01:07:39):
I have started Probably 25 pages.
This is my 25th page.
Oh shit.
I had a bunch of like memepages that did well, like during
the Johnny Depp trial I wouldcut up like parts of the trial
and put my music to it at keymoments and dude, like I would
spend hours doing this and itwould be like funny videos and

(01:08:03):
it would get like seven millionviews with my song and I would
like I'd be elated.
But every comment would be likego, johnny, team, johnny,
nothing music related, like nospike in stream.
So I quickly realized I'm likeokay, this isn't, this isn't
gonna work.

I'm sorry to interrupt but hilariously I just
had baby you in bed with thepsycho and like Johnny Depp,
like like, oh my god, that's soperfect I know probably would
work, that's.

Layto (01:08:30):
I'm like actually hilarious.
I'm like so afraid to likestray from anything that I've
been doing now because I'm likeI'm not fucking this algorithm
on.

No, you sure let's.
I want to get into that becauseyou are tearing it up, but that
just hit me.
That's hilarious becauseObviously, yeah, that's kind of
what it's all about.

Layto (01:08:45):
Yeah, I mean it was fun and, honestly, it was good for
me to like.
I Was basically like, like yousaid earlier, like I was
creating sync and on tiktok iswhat I was initially doing,
because I'm like, oh, I woulduse other people's videos and
put my song to it and cleverlycut it, but ultimately, tiktok
is so like a great Exploratorytool for for new fans and they

(01:09:06):
want to like sink their teethinto like you as an artist, not
just like some passive fuckingvideo With your song in the
background.
That's something that I'velearned.
I Found also veryserendipitously.
I was like I'm gonna need tolearn how to edit Much like
music, unlike music, rather,where I was like, okay, like I

(01:09:27):
have people and key people thatdo what they do perfectly.
Content is just too likeexpensive and Difficult, where
it's like I can't hire somebodyto do that every day, especially
with tiktok, where you got toget like two content pieces out
every single day.
Yeah, so I'm like, fuck, whatam I gonna do?
So I was like learning how toedit on Final Cut, getting

(01:09:49):
fairly proficient with it, butlike the videos that I would do
would be like these ridiculouslylong, like super high brown
nonsense, like I'm a superheroand I'm using like FX and I'm
like, why did I just fucking dothis for like seven days?
But good for me to learn andand Learning this like VFX shit.
I saw this channel on YouTubeand I saw these like young kids

(01:10:09):
and I saw palm trees in thebackground.
These like 18 year olds thatI'm like, oh shit, like they're.
These kids are awesome at whatthey do reached out to them.
I'm like at the time I was inLA.
This is like four months ago.
I'm like, fuck, I hope thesedudes are in LA and and they do.
This name is Zach.
He got back to me.
He's like I'm in San Diego.
Man, like sorry, but I have abuddy who is going to school at

(01:10:29):
Los Angeles.
You should link up with him.
And I texted this dude and wewere texting back and forth.
We ended up meeting and we justhe's like he's 19.
He's super hungry, but morethan that, he's like super
precocious and understands likewhen he wants to be in 10 years,
which is such a like smart,like beyond his years thing.

(01:10:53):
To be thinking at his age, youknow, which is very like to me
was very alluring.
I'm like, wow, that's prettyinteresting.
Like he's very like precociousfor a young kid, yeah, and he
just liked the music.
He just believed in what I wassaying and I was like, dude, I
believe if I get good contentlike that you can't do on your
phone, we could scale this.

(01:11:13):
I'm like I have no followers ontiktok, but you got to trust me
, I know we can do this.
He liked the numbers on Spotify, believed in the music and like
most importantly was like Ireally love your music, man, and
I'm like, oh, let's try a fewthings, came and shot some stuff
.
For like two months we were kindof peering.
We would see like little to noresults, although I would see
more likes and more people beinglike this is a great song, what

(01:11:35):
is this?
So there was like a littleencouragement, but it was like
very much like no resultswhatsoever.
And then randomly, like twomonths ago, shit just started to
like slowly grow and grow andgrow and then on tour, like
we're talking like three weeksago, like just fucking, shit
kind of went nuts.
We got some like viral postsand we're able to niche down.

(01:11:59):
I think one of the biggestthings is like having a niche,
with tiktok not being super wideand Passive, but like knowing
what your audience is for musicespecially.
And like with my music it'svery like alti, kind of like
dark, disenfranchised peopletend to like it.
So it's like we were able tolike get a lot of people coming
from there and Dude, what anexposure tool.

(01:12:21):
Like no joke on this tour, 10to 15 people a night from tiktok
, it's like crazy.
You know, that's awesome.

Yeah, it's what would you call the, the niche of
your videos, though, likethey're so specific, alt alt
tiktok.

Layto (01:12:40):
Like these are my tags songwriter, psycho, nightmare,
intrusive thoughts, because,like so, much of the music is
like kind of dark and broodingand it's like you know, anxiety.
It's testimony lyrics,obviously.
That's kind of what I would tryto, that's what I try to like,
tailor towards and thenhopefully, like it scales up,

(01:13:02):
you know.
I mean who fucking knows.
But yeah, it's been great as oflate, do you?

have any idea why the first one popped off.

Layto (01:13:14):
The.
So the first one that poppedoff was one I did with my phone,
but it was like if you like NFM&M 21 pilots, then you might
like me.
And it had hounding in thebackground and, ironically
enough, like so many people thatI think, found me on YouTube.
Those initial songs like 2018.

(01:13:35):
We're like holy fuck, I knowyou, I listen to your music.
I got a million comments oflike, oh my god, that's you, you
sang that song, you sang thatsong and it's like Great.
Now they have a face likewhereas I think a lot of people
maybe have listened on Spotify Iwould like any, we all do this.
It's like who is that artist?
I know that song.
I don't know who the?
fuck that artist is.
It's cuz of playlists, cuz aplaylist, and you too playlists

(01:13:57):
and it's like, okay, now theywere able to put a face to me
like boom, couple thousandfollowers, and it's like
whatever.
Like those are 2,000 hardcorefans that are now from YouTube,
now on tiktok.
Yeah, you found them found thembrought them over.
Yeah, so that I think, veryluckily and much to my like,
career has been a lot of luck.
It's like I had a head startwith a lot of dudes starting

(01:14:18):
tiktok pages in the sense oflike I already have like fans
from other Platforms that justcame over like 5,000 fans
initially that like found me ontiktok.
They're legit fans.
You know, it's not just like oh, we put up a random video and I
might like that song.
So I think, like they rewardyou for that, maybe like the
algorithm, and then just slowlyscaling, like making sure we

(01:14:40):
spend hours on Editing the rightvideo.
I mean, it's not like we don'tjust throw shit at the wall,
like we spend hours editingTommy, does you know?
I mean Garrett like filming it,shooting it, blocking it out.
It's like a fucking music videoand you got to do it every day.
It's like.
But it goes to like you caneither complain or you can
accept that this is the newparadigm.

(01:15:00):
You know you got to havecontent every day.
It's just the way it is shortform content every day.

Yeah, I mean you , you're really talking to me
right now like I'm learningstuff, because with this podcast
I'm gonna do the same.
I have a social media managerthat I've hired and we're gonna
do two posts a day on allplatforms, and I mean I don't
have a tiktok page or any ofthat yet, so it'll be just
starting it out, but I Meanthat's a lot of work.
I understand I'm not even doingit, but I understand how much

(01:15:30):
work that is and yeah, I meanit's just.
It seems like just continuouslydoing it, don't stop.
But then, if you figure outwhat's working, just hammer that
home.

Layto (01:15:42):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And then I think part of it,too, might be introducing new
things, like because you, youknow, like with promoting a song
, it's like I have a certainconcept.
I've been doing these oneswhere I walk and I track my head
.
It's like, at a certain time,like that might get stale.
So it's like learning how tointroduce new kind of things
within the algorithm so thatyou're not, you know, fucked

(01:16:05):
randomly like a month later andyou're not getting any views.
It's like I don't know.
I think that is like the formulaon TikTok, as of now anyways,
is to just continuing to be likeyou know, to have a niche which
this definitely will, you know,like interview style podcast.
People love that shit.
And it's like going to be sohighly produced with the cameras

(01:16:27):
and the audio and I'm sure themix will be great, but it's like
no one can do that.
I always try to think like, allright, what can't be done on
your phone, you know, becauselike, then you're cutting above.
It's like music.
It's like you can have anybodycan put a song out, but like
who's paying for mixes andmasters and who's paying for
production costs and making surethat it's like 99% cut above

(01:16:50):
everybody else and then you'reonly dealing with 1% of
competition.
It's like I don't think it'sdissimilar.
On content either.
You know it's like I try tolike any money I make I put back
into my career, you know, whichis like cinematography, mixing,
mastering.
It's like you got to,unfortunately, like this shit
costs money and you know you gotto fucking grind and even when,

(01:17:15):
like I didn't have wasn'tmaking money on music, like I
was making money on another job,like a normal paycheck, and
putting it all towards music,you know you got to like believe
in yourself, I think.

Absolutely I.
Do that resonate so deep withme.
I mean a ton of the money thatI make.
When into my studio and intothis room, it's like this is my
passion and I'm going to do itthe best I can.
Money putting your money backinto your craft matters so much.

Layto (01:17:43):
Yeah, this is sick room, by the way.
Thank you, did you design this?

Me and my friend Ashley, so I told her what I
was looking for and she helpedme bring it to life.

Layto (01:17:53):
Yeah, it's dope.

So now it's been it's been many months and I'm
just curious like you can flexreal quick.
How many followers have yougotten on the TikTok?

Layto (01:18:08):
I think we're at like 60,000, 65,000 almost 65,000.

And how many months?
Like two months?
Yeah, I mean, that's crazy,dude, I'm so happy.

Layto (01:18:20):
No, thank you.
I mean, like you know, Iultimately don't know how the
fuck shit happens.
You know, I just try to like ifI see something working, it's
like okay, let's work harder,let's keep doing what we're
doing.
You know, like I don'tultimately know why shit works
and some posts I post don't doas well and it's like so much of
it is very like influx, like Idon't think we really know.

(01:18:41):
But I mean it's fun putting thework in and seeing results.
You know it's a good feeling.

Yeah, but I think, much like songs, you
never know which one will pop,except for Hounden.
I know that you said that youknew that, but you don't know
which ones are going to go.
But you know, if you don't putthe love and care, time, effort
and money into these things,your chances are significantly
smaller that something willhappen.

Layto (01:19:09):
Yeah it's all about just increasing your odds, you know,
but it's a lot easier to saythat when you have a foundation
and fans.
It's like, you know, like, Iguess, for anybody listening,
it's like I tried 25 pages.
I had no results and I wassitting with my cinematographer
like with the same belief andfortitude that I have now.

(01:19:30):
Like this will work.
This will work, you know, like,with zero followers, zero views
, stuck at like 150 views a postwith 10 likes.
You know, it's like I justthink if you believe in
something and you do it rightand you put the adequate amount
of time in it, it'll work.
With videos, though, like thereare certain videos that I post
that I'm like, oh, it's going togo.
There is like a weird intuitivefeeling that I have, and

(01:19:53):
sometimes they do rip.
I'm like, holy shit.

I think that's you doing the lightning rod
You're channeling.
You know, maybe?
I think that that's part of theflow state.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, I think you're just inmore in tune with that.
But wait, I'm curious, why didyou?
Why did you delete all theseother pages and start a new one?

Layto (01:20:14):
Oh gosh.
Well, I don't want to fuck upmy algorithm, but I had like
these mean pages.
And then I did a page where Iwas like, did doja cat steal my
song?
And it was hounding and becauseshe did that record for the and
obviously like it was tongue incheek and like I knew she
didn't stand my song.
But, dude, I got so much flackfor that Like you wouldn't

(01:20:37):
believe the shit that I got forthat, like I became a meme, like
so many people were repostingand do adding it, and I did it
like in front of my bathroom.
I was like did doja cats stealmy song?
And then, like all thesefucking people would be like,
did doja cats steal my song?
They would, they would likeimitate what I was doing.
And it was actually hilarious,it was fucking funny.
But it was untenable after awhile and I was like, dude, I

(01:20:59):
can't respond to these peopleanymore.
And then I was like initiallyit was really funny.
And then I'm like this is not.
This is not resulting instreams.
This is, if anything, hurtingmy brand.
No one knows that I'm an artist.
They just think I'm an asshole.
Who's like accusing doja cat ofstealing your song?
And that's their favorite artist, of course.

And so I was like we got to switch it up.

Layto (01:21:20):
Yeah, we have to switch it up and we did, thankfully.

That makes sense .
I get it.
Yeah, I was wondering like why?
Why so many pages?
I guess, since the algorithmhas already kind of labeled your
meme pages as meme pages,probably you can't use that one.
I get it.
Whatever you did, you did itright and I hope that people
listening and watching kind ofpick up on.
I mean, you got to put love,time and effort and a lot of the

(01:21:47):
times, money, into creatingcontent.
Unless you can do all of that,but then it's going back to
there's no way that you can do acraft at the top level and have
time to do all these otherthings.

Layto (01:22:00):
Yeah.

Like, if you don't have the money, maybe find
a bunch of friends who want torise up with you and you somehow
compensate them in other ways.
Yeah, but you need people whoare really great at their craft
to play at the top level.
Yeah.

Layto (01:22:16):
Totally, and I guess it's not to say like a songwriter
can't, like I guess for me it'slike I'm not good enough to play
guitar, to play piano, to singacapella in front of my phone
with zero production, zero likemixing to cut through.
But there I have seen like manyartists that are fucking awesome

(01:22:37):
, that have dope voices, thatwrite like acoustic songs, like
there is like there is no, notnot just one way to do something
, but I've always operated inlike I'm going to outwork
someone, I'm going to have thebest production that I can have,
I need to process my vocals, Ineed to have six cinematography,
because it's like I don't, Idon't feel like I have like a

(01:22:57):
great enough voice to just standout.
You know it's not being humble,it's just the truth.
You know it's like I guess likewhat I would say is the best
aspect of my music is thesongwriting.
And then it's like all theselittle things like the mix and
you know Matt's vocals.
It's like it all helps, youknow, build something to where
it can be, but I need a lot ofpeople involved, you know,

(01:23:18):
rather than just like singing ina fucking parking lot and it
sounds unbelievable.

Yeah that makes sense, Okay.
So understanding what you bringto the table and just filling
in the gaps, yeah, Sweet.
Well then I want to pivot to,kind of, the main question of
this podcast, although I youknow whenever I say that really
the point is this greatconversation and there's so many

(01:23:43):
nuggets along the way, but I'mreally curious what?
What does success mean to you?

Layto (01:23:49):
I think, ultimately, it's like being able to have freedom
of time.
You know it's like what can Ido?
That I can kind of have my ownschedule Again, I always talk
about this with with Garrett butit's like being able to not
answer to someone, to dosomething that you're passionate

(01:24:10):
about and to kind of make yourown hours and like feel like you
can just operate in flow stateand not feel like you're working
, and then to be able to dothings that you want in life,
rather than being like, fuck, Igot a little work, which you
know there.
There's like a lot of valor inthat and you know, to each zone
and there's plenty of peoplethat love their jobs.
But like I value my time, likeI don't want to work for

(01:24:30):
somebody.
I could never do it.
I just not wired that way whereI could follow orders and be a
good employee, like personally.

Yeah, very much same.

Layto (01:24:40):
I think a lot of creative people are very much like that.
I value my time, you know, andbeing able to call my own shots.
So like once I got to thatlevel where I was like had my
own hours, like to me that'ssuccess.
And then it's, and then it'snot resting on the laurels of
that and being like how do Ikeep building and continue
sustaining a career.
And then you just your goalsconstantly shift and change.

(01:25:02):
You know.
You know initially it's like Iwant to get signed.
Then you get signed, you'relike this isn't shit, like
what's next?
Like I want to be the bigger, abigger artist.
I want to.
You know I want to have a songthat passes X amount of streams.
Then you do that and you'relike what's next?
I think it's healthy to do thatwithin reason and not but not
get like caught up in it, but tohave goalposts.

(01:25:23):
You know milestones that youwant to hit, but I like to just
set goals and try to achievethem.
Like to me that's so gratifyingyou know, I like to be goal
centric and, like once we hitmarks, it's like it's a initial
feeling of like wow, this isgreat, we did this.
What's next?

(01:25:44):
You know?
So keep you going.

But like to distill down what you feel like
success is is the ability tohave and make your own schedule,
have time and make your ownschedule and not have to answer
I guess not have to run youranswers through somebody else's
filter Like you want to be ableto create and do what you do on

(01:26:08):
your own time, I mean yeah, likeI guess I get so subjective and
it's like success and whatcapacity?

Layto (01:26:14):
like I want to have a successful relationship.
You know, I want to have asuccessful like life it's
outside of music, but like forwhat I do in a career, like I
want my success to be, yeah, toafford me my, my own time, which
I guess, like not having moneyis not having time because you

(01:26:37):
need to put in time to work andto make money, and like you're
not on your own schedule.
It's like I often think, likewhat is the amount of money that
it would take for me to just belike okay, I don't need to do
anything anymore, like thatamount of money would be.
I wouldn't need anything morethan that.
You know, I would just needwhatever could afford me to like
not have to answer to a boss orwhatever, which seems like

(01:26:59):
super privilege and shit.
But it's like I just want towork towards that.
It's not like I have that, it'sjust.
You know, I want to work hardto be lucky enough to have that.

Yeah, I understand that.
Yeah, yeah, well, to pivot offof that, let's I kind of one of
the last questions I'd like toexplore is what, what do you
think that you've done along theway throughout your career or
life that have brought you tothis point where you're signed
as an artist?

(01:27:28):
A pub deal you are, you aredoing music for a living?
I'd like to maybe like distilldown to a couple of bullet
points for people watching andlistening, like what can they do
to have similar success thatyou've had?

Layto (01:27:50):
I think we got to work hard, obviously, but more than
working hard, you kind of haveto work creatively and kind of
think outside the box.
For me, initially, it wasfinding ways to email managers,
which I knew people weren'tdoing.
They're just like putting theirshit on SoundCloud or putting
their shit on Spotify, and I'mlike that doesn't work.

(01:28:11):
I'm going to go directly to amanager, sell the manager, then
the manager will sell me, soit's like I try to employ
ingenuity.
I think, at the crux of it,though, you need to have a lot
of fortitude and self-belief andnot just feigning it, but you
have to really believe in it,because if you don't believe in

(01:28:32):
yourself, nobody else is goingto believe in you, and you won't
be able to exemplify that andarticulate that to other people
that matter in the industry,because they can very quickly
see that you're insecure or youdon't believe in what you're
doing.
And if you have a vision, youneed a clear, concise vision of
what you want to do, and thenyou just work towards it.
And if you put in the amount oftime and don't waver and you

(01:28:56):
really love what you do and Ithink you do need to love what
you do, because shit is hard asfuck, especially trying to cut
through in the music industry.
It's like you will have so manybumps in the road and if you
don't like what you're doing orlove what you're doing, you're
going to give up.
That's just like anything inlife If you don't really care
about it when shit gets tough,you will give up the other

(01:29:18):
million jobs that I've had whereI'm like fuck this, I don't
want to do this.
So you need to be unwaveringlyfocused and you need to really
like what you're doing and worktowards it.
And if you keep doing that overtime, from my own experience, I
just feel like you'll besuccessful in one way or another

(01:29:38):
and maybe other opportunitieswill arise.
Maybe it's not what you thoughtit would be initially, but
you'll make connections.
And maybe you're still in theindustry, but you're in a
different capacity.
But I do think that that shitirons itself out.
Yeah, yeah.

So I guess, to distill that down, you dropped
out of college because you feltthis was the right time.
You had a track that poppedsome.
I'm sure it popped really wellbut couldn't afford you life
forever.
But it made you feel like I cando this and you acted on that.
That's a strong.

(01:30:16):
Whenever we were talking I waslike that is that's the essence
of someone who will make it,just believing in something like
a little pad on the back likeyou can do this, and then you
just run.

Layto (01:30:27):
Yeah, it's like a little win.
I think a lot of people havemisconstrued what making it is,
but it's like grinding, like forsix or seven years doing music.
It's like these little winsthat you have.
That, like you said, like thatinitial onslaught of success for
me, and it's like I'm detailingcars.
But I would be like I'd have myheadphones in, I'd be like, and

(01:30:50):
I would just have such afeeling of joy Like holy fuck,
we can do this.
Like if I just, if I just savemy money and I'm like planning
out what I'm going to do and I'mnot bothered by the shit work
that I'm doing, because I knowthat I'm going to go to the
studio in a week and recordanother song.
It's like keeps you going, youknow, and then just slowly
compounds, I think, as long asyou keep working at it.

Yeah, yeah.
The last point whenever you'retalking, you were saying the
mental fortitude and a couple ofthe guests I've had we've
talked about and I talk aboutthis kind of often with people
but I think that you have to beobsessed with whatever it is
you're trying to do.
Obsessed gets a bad rap, but Ithink you have to be obsessed

(01:31:31):
and delusional kind of, to justkeep on getting punched in the
face and just keep going forward.
And from music I mean, youreally need that.
That's the mental fortitude.
It's like how many times can Iget punched and just keep going?
You have to be obsessed to thepoint where your friends invite
you to this, or you have thisgoing on over here, or you want

(01:31:54):
to watch that TV show and you'relike no, I got to sit here and
get this thing done because thisis what's going to get me to
where I want to go.

Layto (01:32:01):
Totally.
And I think, like for anybodywho doesn't do that, I think
once you start training yourbrain to do that, once you go
through like the hard times, youactually appreciate it.
It feels good to do it and evenin the moment, because you're
like okay, like and and and I'mlike we're tore, like I'm like
okay, in a month I'm going to berelaxing, like this is going to
be so worth it.
I'm going to appreciate myrelaxing times because it's

(01:32:25):
earned, you know.
It's like everything needs tobe earned, in my opinion, to
really like, have a sense ofvalue.
Otherwise, what are you doing?
And you don't really understandwhat you're doing because you
didn't earn it, you know.
But I definitely like with thedelusional thing.
Like in the beginning I wasvery much delusional as to what
I could do and I had noexperiential knowledge, no
barometer.
But that was like you said, itwas like I needed that because

(01:32:48):
if I knew what I knew now butthe industry, I would never
start Same.

Absolutely same.
I was actually thinking aboutthat in the shower today.
Really I was like man.
If I would have known all theshit that I'm going to get drug
through.
I was just looking backthroughout, like my time in
music, and I was like man.
If I could actually reallypaint this in somebody's mind, I
think that I would turn themaway from doing this.
But the one way I can get awayfrom that is just saying you got

(01:33:15):
to be delusional If you justlook through our lens, just get
drugged through the shit andlike have fun, pretend like it's
a slip slide, slip inside, yeah.

Layto (01:33:26):
Slip inside of shit.
Yeah, no, that's true.
I definitely feel that you gotto be kind of crazy in your own
head.
Also weirdly feel like if youreally believe in that like shit
weirdly does like whetheryou're like a tune to it.
I kind of do believe that,though, like the serendipity of
people being kind of thrust intoyour life like yourself, and

(01:33:48):
it's like you told me that storyabout hounding today.
It's like I didn't know that.
I had no idea that you knewthat song With my
cinematographer.
He has like a crazy story wherehe like went to his
grandfather's grave and likewant he's like please give me
some success or something.
And then, like that day welinked up, like I hit him up on

(01:34:10):
the phone and we had a meeting.
It's like it's just so weird.
You know how that shit works,but I do kind of believe in that
To be honest, I do too.

Yeah, as an atheist, I was very into science
, which I still am and whilethat's not science, I can see
how many times something hasworked.
And then at that point you'rejust kind of silly if you don't
see that or at least I wouldhave been silly if I didn't see
that.
You know, yeah.

Layto (01:34:35):
I think, like you and I probably align more than we
might think on that.
It's like an energy thing, likean energy field that might not
be like apparent but to yournaked eye, but there is
something there, I feel you know, like you said, it's like too
many.
That would be far too manycoincidences.
And so many people have thesame story where it's like yeah,

(01:34:56):
like 50 different thingshappened to me that led me here.
It's like what you know?
Yeah, just seems so planned.
Almost it's crazy Hell yeah, no.
It's a fun ride.

It is a fun ride that we are on together,
alternative Psycho.

Layto (01:35:11):
It was out the 9th of June and hopefully you've
already been listening to a lotof the records on it, and you,
boy, mixed and mastered theentire album, and great job, man
.
Thank you, man.

Dude, we killed it together.

Layto (01:35:22):
You, the man.

Yeah, please go stream that it's.
I mean, it's an incredible bodyof work, thank you.
I really love it from start tofinish.

Layto (01:35:30):
Yeah, me too, and you know we'll be continue to be a
big part of my career.
So I appreciate you, bro.
Thanks, man.

And maybe by the time that this is coming out,
there will be some otherreleases to TBA.

Layto (01:35:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just follow me on TikTok.

Exactly.
By that time you might have 100, 100,000 followers.
Yeah, who knows?
Hell.
Yeah, dude.
Thanks for coming on, man.

Layto (01:35:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me, man.
Oh yeah.

All right.
So now that you've heard thefinal episode of season one with
Lado, I'm sure that you have amuch better glimpse of who he is
, how he develops a team aroundhim.
You know, like therelationships involved in making
music, how his work ethic hasgotten him to where he is now.
You know he has tried so manydifferent things with different
social platforms, with music,with careers, that he's honed in

(01:36:25):
who he really is, and I thinkthat that's super admirable and
I'm sure you learned a lot ofthings from him.
I wanted to start out on thekey points of what he wrote on
the chalkboard.
It was a Michael Jordan quoteand it says limits, like fears,
are often an illusion.
I mean, of course, I love thisquote because I feel, like

(01:36:47):
everything in music andeverything creatively and
everything that you have tothink outside of the box, fear
is something that we constantlyrun into.
We're so ingrained in like aparticular way of living life
that's easy and comfortable,because I think humans like
comfort.
Of course, fear is just aconstant thing that we're having

(01:37:08):
to break down, and so thisquote touches home.
But then how he elaborated onit.
I think his superpower is thathe surrounds himself with people
that complete what he lacks.
So Lado talks about hisstrengths in this episode and he
also talks about things thathe's not great at.

(01:37:28):
He doesn't play instruments.
He didn't want to take the timeto learn how to be able to
produce a track, like get theperfect idea and sound out of
his head into a song.
He wanted to find producersthat he could work with that
could understand him andcomplete what he's lacking and,

(01:37:51):
as a result, he has actuallygotten music out that sounds
incredible and it's authenticbecause he's able to resonate
through the people he is around.
What he wants and why thisbreaks down fear is that
somebody could sit there andanalysis, paralysis, like
thinking, oh, I have to learnhow to produce, I have to learn

(01:38:11):
how to write, I have to learnhow to sing, I have to like all
these things, and never actuallyget moving.
But in this scenario, lado knewwhere he wanted to go, he knew
what he brought to the table andhe found people to surround
himself with to take him there.
So he broke down that fear wallof getting moving and that's

(01:38:32):
why he's getting a lot of TikTokfollowers and plays and he
signed as an artist and hesigned a pub deal.
So huge key for the finalepisode here.
Another huge key.
I love this and we allunderstand that we have to
continue to move forward andpersevere through hard times.

(01:38:56):
Right, like that's just.
That's like the essence of whatmakes somebody successful is
their ability to keep on gettinghit in the face and continue to
move forward.
But Lado said that he hadsomewhere around 25 TikTok
channels.
I find this crazy that he trieddifferent niches, tried
different avenues, tried to finddifferent fans over and over

(01:39:19):
and over until finally somethingstuck.
And once he found that niche,that people really resonated
with his music, his vibe, hislook, his everything.
He just started hammering thathome and I find so much
admiration in that Like to beable to quote, unquote, fail

(01:39:42):
that many times but justcontinue to move forward because
you know what you're offeringthe world.
You just have to find thepeople that that little story
was pretty awesome.
Go follow him on TikTok andyou'll see, like his vibe on
there and how well his videosare doing.
Lastly, I want this to be thelast key point of season one

(01:40:04):
because it's so truthful, it'sso real, it is the essence of
what it takes to be somebody inmusic and I wrote this down and
I'm going to read it straightfrom here instead of trying to.
You know, remember from memoryhere If I could paint into your
mind how tough it was going tobe getting into the music

(01:40:25):
industry and all of the shitthat you would have to go
through at any point in time toget any sort of success success
to the point where you'reactually able to live off the
income from music alone I woulddefinitely go on record and say
that 99.99% of people would noteven try.

(01:40:48):
It is so painfully tough tomake it in music, to make it in
any creative field.
So the point here that I wouldlike to make is that you have to
be incredibly delusional,almost to the point where you
find fun and you get like thissense of joy and a spark of life

(01:41:11):
every time you walk through,swim through shit.
It's going to be tough.
People around you are not goingto help you until you are able
to help them.
You are going to continuouslyhear nos.
You're going to run intofinancial trouble, stress
troubles, maybe health troubles,because you are working

(01:41:35):
yourself to death.
None of this sounds good andit's probably not healthy, but
it's reality.
And those that are able to justcontinue forward with this
delusion that one day it's allgoing to be worth it, you're
going to make it and you neverstop.
You might doubt yourself attimes, but as long as you keep
moving forward and you find funand you make a game out of it

(01:41:59):
and you just continue forward,you will have a breakthrough.
It will happen.
You just have to keep going.
You have to keep going, keepyour goal in mind and just keep
moving.
It will be incredibly tough andif I could somehow take my head
and my heart and my body andeverything that I've gone

(01:42:21):
through and I made somebody feelwhat I have had to go through
to get here, I am certain thatnearly every single person would
just quit immediately.
I would too.
We talk about it on thispodcast.
I would quit, probably knowingall of this.
But the reason I didn't isbecause I had fun in the

(01:42:43):
challenge and I'm not to where Iwant to go one day.
I want to be somewhere furtheralong and doing music that
touches more lives.
But sitting here today I am sostoked on where I am and the
only reason I'm here is becauseI found fun in continuing on and

(01:43:05):
my delusion is so high that Inever really thought that I
wouldn't make it, and I stilldon't.
I am like a little kid in asandbox just having a great time
, and I think that that isreally the essence of what it
takes to keep going and havingany sort of success where you
can live off of music.
So hopefully season one hasimpacted your life in such a way

(01:43:31):
that you feel more equipped togo after this career in music
and I hope next season we justkeep on building on that.
So thanks so much for listening.
This means the world to me andI'll catch you on next season.
Thanks for listening to theGrounds for Success podcast.
I want to thank all of thepeople who work on this podcast

(01:43:54):
and help me out.
My team is everything to me,and without them I couldn't
bring these to you every singleweek.
I couldn't post on social mediawith all the clips that we have
, and so I thank you guys somuch.
I want to also thank all of myclients on the Mixing and
Mastering side, because withoutyou I could not have Grounds for
Success.

(01:44:14):
So thank you so much.
If you're enjoying the Groundsfor Success podcast, please
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