Siiickbrain: How To Transform Adversity Into Art, Authenticity, Modeling, and Skrillex

Episode Transcript
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Austin Seltzer (00:01):
Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast.
I'm your host, austin Siltzer.
Together we'll unveil the keysto success in the music industry
.
Join me as I explore my guest'slife stories and experiences to
uncover practical insights tohelp you align with your goals
more effectively.
Hey copy drinkers, welcome tothe Grounds for Success podcast.

(00:32):
On today's episode I have SickBrain.
She's a good friend of mine andwe have the most intimate
conversation I've had so farwith any guest.
We touch on very, very deepmatters.
So I just want to let you knowright now that this episode is
going to be deep and possiblysometimes difficult to listen to
, because Sick Brain dives intovery intimate, deep things that

(00:59):
have gone on in her life and Ithink through this episode you
will become much more empathetictowards people with mental
illness but people who havestruggled with very difficult
things in life, and through hereyes we can see how she's
overcome so many things thathave gone on in life to do

(01:19):
incredible things that have beenpropelled by trauma that she's
gone through in life or herupbringing.
And I think that this is one ofthe most beautiful podcasts
that I'll ever create withsomebody, because she is just
such a shining light through thethings she's gone through in
life.
In this episode we'll learnabout her early childhood and

(01:42):
really how the community shegrew up in was very judgmental
and it shaped who she was earlyin life, of course, but
throughout her years as well.
We will also talk about hermental health from a young age
and kind of like how it affectedher early childhood and through

(02:03):
middle school and high schooland how she saw the different
places that she would move andthe different school she would
go to, how that would affect heranxiety levels and an eating
disorder and kind of like howthat shaped who she was as a
child.
We will also talk about how shedeveloped agoraphobia, a

(02:27):
disorder that I looked up.
I didn't really understand, butthrough her eyes she wasn't
able to leave the house and bein social settings, so how
having this allowed her reallyto develop a craft and put in
her 10,000 hours at such a youngage.
She also gives us a look behindthe scenes on how incredibly

(02:50):
difficult being a professionalmodel is, kind of all the things
that go along with it Veryinteresting topic.
We also hear the tragic storyabout her best friend, tristan,
and how through him she was ableto move into music with a very
authentic message that shewanted to just get out of

(03:14):
herself.
I mean, really like pure art.
And then, lastly, we'll talkabout how sick brain connected
with skrillex really, justthrough being incredibly
authentic and doing somethingdifferent, a really cool story
as well.
Alright, let's get caffeinated.
I think that you as a personI've met you several times, but

(03:38):
we haven't gotten to have any, Idon't know, like lengthy,
deeper conversations.
But there's one thing that's soeasy for me to see, and I'm
sure that anybody who followsyou or kind of knows I don't
know, you don't put a ton ofstuff online, so maybe not.

Siiickbrain (03:53):
I used to.
I used to be crazy on theinternet.

Okay.
So people definitely knowyou're like I don't, I'm just
gonna say like artwork throughand through.
I mean, obviously you're abeautiful person but like.
I feel like everything you dohas such intention and such
beauty to it, whether I knowyour music is heavy and abrasive
and beautiful and all thesethings, but it's all beautiful.

(04:20):
It's just like what I mean bythat is so thoughtful.
Thanks.
I think that on this podcast Iwant to explore kind of like the
DNA of what got you to hear,understanding how you function
and how you think, and maybewe're going to explore things

(04:42):
that you haven't really eventhought of.
And I think that that's kind ofa beautiful thing as well.
So to start off, let's go allthe way back.
I'd really love to learn andhear some about your childhood
and where you grew up I thinkit's North Carolina.

Yeah.

But some early family life and early things
that you did in life.

Yeah.
So, yeah, I grew up in NorthCarolina.
I grew up on a farm in themiddle of nowhere.
There were no neighbors.
I was constantly terrified whenI was alone in the house
because I was like someone'sgonna come here, no one's gonna
know, I'm gonna die.
Fear, yeah.

(05:26):
So I grew up on a farm in themiddle of nowhere with horses,
and the community that I went toschool in and grew up in was a
very typical of a Southernconservative community.

(05:46):
It was just not an open-mindedcommunity at all.
There was also a lot of shamesurrounding mental health.
Yeah, basically, it was justvery frowned upon, very judged
if you had debilitating anxietyor any other problem with your

(06:10):
mental health.

So there's I'm forgetting the name of the book
right now, Kind of a shittything to.
I'm referencing something Idon't exactly remember, but
there's the lead researcher whodeals with trauma wrote a book.
I don't remember what collegeshe's a professor at, but she
wrote this book and I think it'sjust called trauma, but it's

(06:33):
upstairs somewhere.
I read it.
Beautiful book to help somebodywho.
I didn't have any traumagrowing up and I feel very
fortunate about that, and I'vehad to learn from my girl, cass,
a whole lot on empathy forpeople who have had trauma and
to understand how that canchange someone, like the fork in

(06:57):
the road where things happenand whatnot.
I got very interested inlearning about trauma and
anxiety and one thing that thisbook talks about and they know
for certain now that trauma ispassed down from your parents
and so if they went through, orsomebody one of the two went
through a very, very traumaticevent, you can pass on that to

(07:22):
your offspring.
It does change DNA.
It changes their DNA if theywent through really deep trauma.
I think the people that theystudied were like Auschwitz
survivors and people that wentthrough just incredible trauma
and how that passed on, and so Idon't know, but do you know if

(07:44):
your parents went or one of yourparents went through something
that was incredibly traumatic?

Oh yeah, I mean I know my dad and I have a very me
and my dad type relationship,like there's always been like a
wall there, so I'm not reallypositive on that.
I love my dad.
He's the best ever.

(08:09):
He's like my favorite person.
He and my mom both they'reincredible.
You met them.

They were in this room.
They were in this room.
Yeah, we recorded some cello.

Yeah.

And we showed them the room and the studio
next door and they were lovelyyeah they're amazing.

My mom has definitely been through a lot.
I don't know if that'ssomething that I want to talk
about publicly, because it's notmy stuff to share Of course.
But, yeah, my mom has beenthrough a lot and I think that
she's super inspiring to mebecause she and it wasn't this

(08:54):
way always Like I as I got olderand like learned more about
life, like I kind of realizedmore about how she works and had
a newfound appreciation for her, because as a kid we were
always butting heads and I thinkit's because we're so similar.

(09:14):
Yeah, like we had a really hardrelationship growing up, but
now she's like my person andyeah, she has shown me that
going through a lot of stuff canreally shape you into a strong

(09:39):
person and, instead of lettingit just rip you apart and, like
you know, cause a bunch ofissues, you can turn those
issues into something reallywonderful and you know it can
shape you as an individual andgive you empathy and more of an

(10:02):
understanding of, like, whatother people go through.
But, yeah, she's wonderful, sheis amazing.
Yeah, I love that she'sdefinitely been through some
shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I totally understand.
I mean that is her story totell.
Yeah.
Me and my mom were very much thesame way.
I think that her and I are sosimilar in so many different
areas that me and her just buttheads forever.
And then there was one day thatit clicked.
Probably I think it was like 18, like right.

(10:32):
Whenever I was graduating I hadthis like weird epiphany moment
where I was a class clown, Iwas a dick to subs, you know
substitute teachers.
I don't think that I reallypicked on people in school.
I would definitely wasn't abully, I think I.
But you could see like wheneverpeople were like poking at

(10:54):
somebody, I think that I wouldjoin in.
And there was this one day whereI don't know what happened, but
like it was like life justslapped me in the fucking face
and I changed completely.
I was like, wait, substituteteachers are just people, just
like me.
These people that I'm likejoining in, picking on somebody,

(11:17):
are that.
That person is me.
My mom is just like me and mywhole world just like flipped
and I started to treat peoplejust so much differently, Like
like I'm treating myself and meand my mom became very close and
I understood.
Like that also clicked.

(11:37):
I, you are just like me.
That's why we're butting headsand I love that you had that
epiphany with your mom as well.

Oh yeah, and it sucks because it's like when I
moved out, I moved to Brooklynbefore I moved to LA, but when I
moved out was when I startedrealizing it, you know it takes
like a very mature shift.

Yeah, a different perspective on life.
Yeah, moving out makes sense,Okay.
So yeah, you're in second gradeand you're having stomach
ulcers and incredibly difficult.
Oh yeah, I can't imagine.

I don't know why I was so stressed.
Like girl, calm down.

But I'm guessing that that was kind of just the
beginning.

Yeah, that was just the beginning.
I knew, like, you know, thatstarted like triggering a lot of
other things, yeah, and then itjust like kind of went crazy
from there.

Yeah.
So let's explore some of that,and this isn't just to
understand the I don't know thedark and deep things.
I think that all of this iswhat has created someone who has
such an interesting story totell, with such an interesting
background, and I think thatpeople who go on to really

(13:01):
inspire those and make great art, they are channeling something
that they have been through thatnobody else has, with a story
that nobody else has, and you'resomehow able to take all these
things that have happened inlife and create something truly
inspiring.
And so I.
This exploration is to figureout those things, because you've

(13:24):
told me, you don't reallyunderstand how you you are where
you are and doing the thingsthat you are, and so I think we
get to explore this together.
So let's move on from secondgrade.
What point in life did art ofany form start taking place?

I mean, when I was growing up like since before I
can even remember I was alwayslike ingesting a lot of music,
not like actually eating musicbooks, but like I, was like it
does.
I was listening to music as Iwas waking up.

(14:06):
My mom was playing piano, likeevery morning.
That's how I would wake up.
She was playing like a grandpiano in the living room every
day, and I was so over it atthat age.

But looking back I'm like yeah.

I'm like I would do anything to have those moments
back.
But I was just like ingestingthat and you know, my brother
and I shared a wall so I waslistening to his, like you know,
yellow card and HawthorneHeights, blink Bayside, I'm

(14:45):
guessing.
Lincoln Park at that era and,yeah, like everything he was
listening to that.
Okay, and he's my older brother, so I was like obviously very
influenced by that.
My mom was in the living roomplaying piano and my sister, who
I obviously have looked up toforever, was listening to, like

(15:12):
the shins, radiohead, the cure,john Mayer, elliot Smith
incredible, like one of myfavorites.
She was listening to a lot ofthat and anytime I would be in
her car I just remember like theshins playing or like Radiohead

(15:36):
.

This makes so much sense.

Yeah, so I was just like influenced by like these,
and then my dad like listened tolike Jimmy Buffett.

Having met him, I totally see it.

Oh yeah.
He's wonderful and he's like ona country era right now.
He's been listening to a lot ofcountry music which, like he
wasn't really growing up.
Growing up it was very likePaul McCartney.
You know stuff like that.

Yeah, what was the?
We go into the studio and Ihave him.
What was that?
I don't know.
So for everybody, for everybodylistening and watching I had
Caroline and her family over andI had them sit down in the
chair and, just like, choosewhatever they want to listen to.
Yeah, and your dad chose likethe most twangy country.

Oh my God, I listened to like who did I play?
I played, oh, Ethel Cain.
I was like oh mother.
So I was like, oh, let's listento Ethel Cain, because I've just

(16:54):
been like living for her lately, so I was playing that.
My mom was like I think too shyto pick a song.
So I was like, here, justlisten to this.
It's like a God want.
She like sits in the chair.
She like listens.
My dad's like I can't wait topick one and he picks one.
It's so country.

(17:14):
I don't know anything aboutcountry music except for Shania
Twain and the Dixie Chicks forlifers.

I mean, I immediately looked over to you
and you're like oh my God, whatis he playing?

I was like oh my God.
I was like this place has neverheard that music before.
It's so true.
My dad picks this country musicand he's sitting there, the
speakers are here, we're allbehind him.
He's like, looking at thescreen starts playing the
country music, singing alongwith his chest, having a country
moment, and I am back therebiting my lip, trying not to

(17:52):
laugh because he's having hismoment.
Let him have his moment, youknow.

But he was like I've never heard this this way.

I've never heard it like this.
He was like so into it.
He was singing all the wordsand I was like yes, but I was
like that is wild.
I've never seen him or heardhim listen to that music before.
But anyway, he's on a countrytip.
But back to what we weretalking about.
I've had all these influencessurrounding me forever and that
was really my first.

(18:20):
That was the first thing that Iwas artistically shaped by, I
guess.
And then, of course, was veryindividual art.
I was drawing all the time andI was doing I mean, starting at

(18:41):
around 13, I started doing mymakeup and doing other people's
makeup and really getting intoit and having a moment, because
I was also dealing with myanxieties and agoraphobia.

What is that, by the way?

Agoraphobia.
Oh, I couldn't leave the house.
I would get super lightheadedand feel like I was going to
pass out.
I couldn't do anything.
Even there was a point where Iwas really looking forward to
going to homecoming.
This was when I was getting alittle older.
The agoraphobia was actually athing thing when I was in high

(19:24):
school.

What age did that start?

That started seriously when I was like I want
to say 16.
We came like an actual realthing.
I think it was kind of a thingmy whole life, but it was a real
thing that was extremelydebilitating when I was 16.

Two things.
What were some of the reallydifficult things that you were
dealing with at that time?
If you're open to it, Go.

Basically, when I was like I was trying to get,
you know, I was trying to findlike my place, where I fit in.
So I grew up, I went to privateschool, like I said before,
until seventh grade and Istarted going to public school

(20:20):
and I had like girls in theclass and I was, like you know,
starting to make friends withthem.
I was also struggling with aneating disorder, which is crazy
because I kept that for myfamily forever, like they still
don't really know, like thatthat's what was going on.
I was like terrified of food,like I had a really bad fear of

(20:43):
like being sick and like Ididn't want like, as my body was
growing and like developing, itwas like freaking me out.
I've like had this weird thingwith time my whole life, and so
I was like kind of starvingmyself, but I was also feeling
really sick, like super nauseous, but that was, of course,

(21:03):
rooted in anxiety, and so itkind of led to like this fear of
food and my family it was kindof just like never really
thinking that that was a thing,and both my parents are in the
medical field, so they were likesending me to doctors, doctors,
doctors, you know a few timeslike doctors would like bring

(21:27):
that up.
I would freak out on them Likethat's absolutely not what is
going on, you know.
But that's what people who dealwith eating disorders do
Usually, you know.
It's like this very like Idon't have a problem and that's
what I would say, and they wouldbe like, okay, then you don't
have a problem.
Then you have a medical problemand yeah, it was just like

(21:51):
eating disorder that was goingon.
I was also trying to fit in bydoing photo shoots with this
photographer that was likereally well known in the town,
who I actually found out that Iwas not the only girl, that he

(22:15):
was like extraordinarilyinappropriate, to like a degree
of where he should be in jail,vibe, which was really sad to
find out because he shot myfamily photos when I was four

(22:36):
years old and went to highschool with my mom and everyone
in the town kind of knows it.
But he's just out takingpictures of a little kid still
and vibing and you know what, hehad my photo in his window for
years.
He can rot, but anyway.

(22:58):
So I was dealing with that, youknow, and I didn't want to tell
anyone because also, on top ofthat my mom didn't want me to
take photos with him.
So when I got my license, Istarted secretly going to take
photos with him because I wantedto fit in and I wanted to like

(23:18):
be, like find a way to havegirlfriends and like find like
my crowd, you know, and I couldnever do that and I was like
maybe, if I like do some of thethings that they're doing, maybe
like they can find a way toaccept me or think like I'm cool
enough to be around or likecool enough to invite places or

(23:38):
whatever.
Because, like I needed to liketry extra hard, kind of, because
I just didn't have like I wasrandomly coming in mid middle
school to public school.
So I was like I gotta try.
I mean, I guess the timeline Iwas starting to take pictures of

(24:00):
him when I was 16, but it wasstill like a progressive thing
where I was like felt like I hadto continue to try like
throughout my entire high schoolcareer, you know, yeah, but
anyway.
So my mom had told me I wasnever allowed to shoot with him.

Because she knew yeah.

Like, as I got older, I wasn't like allowed to
go shoot with him alone.
Yeah, you know.

I'm guessing, because the town knows these
things, but they're just not set.

They never are set.
So I had that go on.
So that was something that wasin my head.
Constantly.
I was like kind of living infear of that, living in fear of
like men, and then I like hadlike my first relationship that
was, god awful, like a veryputting me in a really weird

(24:59):
place.
So I would just like constantlywas kind of being let down by
men, except for my dad, ofcourse, king.
But yeah, that was justsomething, and I think that that
causes a lot of trauma.

And was this first relationship whenever you
were 16?
Is this the guy that you wantedto go to homecoming with?

I think so it was around that same time that we
started yeah, seeing each other.

So do you know how the Goraphobia started?
Because this is a reallyinteresting thing that I don't
know much about.

It just started Like I always wanted to leave
school, like my entire life,like I always wanted to go home.

But was it preventing you from leaving the
house?

Oh yeah, like it got there.
Like I would always.
I would always leave schoollike my whole life, like I would
be like, oh, I don't feel good,like I want to go home, like
that was like my whole life,basically Because then in high
school it got to a point andthen I ended up finishing high
school from home.
Okay, like I would have people,like teachers, like bring my

(26:19):
books and bring my assignments,and I was so.
It was so bad at a point where Ididn't even want to see anyone
from the outside.
So I remember having a teachercome and like bring stuff to the
house and, by the way, at thistime my only friend was my
cousin who like had just gottenout of rehab.

(26:40):
He was like my only friend andwe laugh about this all the time
now.
But I had a teacher come withmy books and I literally was so
scared to like confront them andlike see them and say a word
that I literally ran to anotherroom and like hid.
Like I was like, oh my God,like act like I'm not here, you

(27:00):
know, like I can't.
Yeah.

How I mean to just explore the thought a
little bit more, and then we canmove on from this because I can
see that how this is going toinfluence things.
You know more current.
But, how did you start movingto a point where you could leave
the house and you did get morefriends and you know you

(27:25):
actually looked forward.

I never really had real friends in North Carolina,
I only had my cousin.
It wasn't until I moved toBrooklyn.
Everyone in North Carolina waslike making fun of me for like
my mental health because theydidn't understand and none of

(27:47):
them were like had been, youknow, shown that they didn't
understand.
They were like, oh, she's justlike crazy.
Yeah.
And like it's weird because itmade me think that too, I was
like I'm just like literally offthe rails and I remember there
was a point where my mom waslike telling me because, like,

(28:11):
like I said, like we weren'treally friends till I moved out,
she would.
She would say you're just goingto be here forever, like you're
going to just be on the couchforever and you're just going to
starve to death and be on thiscouch and not leave.
Because she was like puttingthis in my head, I guess, to try

(28:31):
and like get me to like dosomething about it, like
instilling fear in me that thiswas my future forever.

Yeah, Well, I I don't know how you left North
Carolina, but first of all I gotto commend the hell out of you.
Oh, thank you For getting out,for multiple reasons, like one I
know.
Whenever it feels all consuming, like that, you, your world is

(29:04):
in this tiny town.
It's very tough to leave.
I mean, you've already saidthat going from a private school
to a public school is verydifficult.
Leaving and going somewhereelse is so incredibly tough.
How did you leave?
What was, what was the thingthat?

got you to leave.
Basically, I was like okay, I'mgoing to prove to my mom that
I'm not going to go to communitycollege.
So I applied to like a fewcolleges.
I got into one, like probablytwo and a half hours away, and I

(29:39):
was like terrified to go.

And I.
I stayed in mental health likehelp, housing and sorry to
interrupt you here, but I ittotally makes sense, though.
Right, those are your peoplenot because they're in use, sort
of way it's because, theyweren't judging you.
They weren't right saying thatyou are this, that or the other.

Right.

You just, you just fit in because they weren't
doing that, and I love that,right, I think that's a great
thing.

Yeah, it was great, but I hated it.
I hated it.
I didn't want to go there.
I just like needed to get outand it was the easiest
transition for me.
Like it was the easiest optionI had in front of me.
I just needed to get gosomewhere and that was the only

(30:35):
place that, like, I could figureout how to go to.
So I went there.
I only went to that school forone semester and, by the way, I
ended up graduating high schoolearly.
I graduated one semester earlyfrom high school because I was
just like I can't, like I cannotkeep doing it.

(30:55):
So I crammed all my, all mycredits like into, like for
semester, senior year, basically, and then I finished and then I
got to focus on my mentalhealth for a little bit and then
during that period it was sobizarre, like I was on so many
different medications, trying tofigure it out, going to so many

(31:16):
different doctors, so manydifferent therapists.
I made one of them cry and likequestion her life.
It's crazy.
And then I ended up bouncingand going to that school and I
wrote my parents a letter likemidway through midway through

(31:39):
the semester.
It was only like semestersaren't that long Like now that
we're thinking about it, likenow that we're like older, it's
like wow, that's like two months, like half a semester.
That's not right.
I think like three maybe.

I don't know, I don't know Half a semester, yeah
, it's like three yeah.

So I wrote them a letter and I was already like
done.
I was like this sucks, like I'mover it.
I know that I can be out of thehouse.
And, by the way, my anxiety wasgetting so much more manageable
because I had no choice but tofigure it out on my own.
I didn't have someone in my earbeing like this is what you're
going to be for the rest of yourlife.
People you know telling me takethis, take that.

(32:24):
You know I was.
I was figuring it out on my ownand I was away from all the
trauma that I got when I wasyounger.
So I moved to Brooklyn.
I wrote my parents a letter.
I was like I got to get out ofhere.
It's like this is not what Iwant to be doing.

I like that you wrote them a letter.
I did, it was an email.

It was an email.

Okay.

And all the reasons that I wanted to move to
Brooklyn and why I thought Icould do it.
I wrote them a long email.

Do you remember any of those reasons?

Yeah, it was just like I'm not happy here.
I think I may have had in thisletter I don't know if I ended
up deleting it out of the letter, but I think I may have
literally had like, if I stayhere, I'm going to kill myself
or something.
It was like I like basicallythreatened my life.
I may have deleted it, but likein my head that's what was

(33:21):
going on.
I was like if I stay in NorthCarolina, I'm literally going to
kill myself.
Yeah.
And so I bounced, and as soon asI got to New York and I lived
in Brooklyn and, by the way, Ihad been to New York one time
for like two days before Imoved- there.

(33:42):
And before I moved to LA, nevervisited, never came here, but I
just up and up and left and Istarted going to makeup school.
I was like I'm going to be amakeup artist because, like I
said, I was like doing makeup onmyself and like my friends to
try and like feel better, feelsomething you know, feel more
confident in my skin.
I was like maybe I'll feelbetter.
I was like, you know, hiding inmy room I had time on my hands.

(34:04):
I was like there's all.
I have all of this stuff.
So I started just doing makeup.
And then I was like more I wasI.
As soon as I got out and got inthe city and had a taste of what
life could be.
As soon as I was like more,more, more, more, more, more,
because I had been locked up bymy own mental health, like I was

(34:31):
essentially in my own prison,you know.
And I got out and I was like,okay, more and more I was like
I'm going to start a makeupcompany.
That was my first thing that Iwas like besides doing makeup.
I was like I'm going to start amakeup company.

(34:52):
I was like, but there's noschools like where I can learn
to do that, and so I found aschool in LA.
I'm like I'm going to bounce,I'm going to go get a marketing
degree.
Wow.
I was like like I said, like Iwas just like on a roll here.
I was like, okay, I can do this.

(35:14):
Like I was like I'm figuringout how to ride the subway.
I'm like living on my own, I'mexperiencing things.
By the way, like I started likegoing out, like I started going
to clubs by myself Bravo, Crazyperson.

That's actually really hard.

Crazy person Like, but it's like I was fresh off
the farm, like I wasn't thinkingabout, like what I'm going to,
like what kind of impression I'mgoing to put on people, and
just like I want to experienceit now because I'm sick of it.
Like I was like so in my zoneand so I literally like

(35:50):
befriended a club promoter inNew York and I would go oh, I
would like use my fake ID andlike go to these clubs by myself
and like, and at this time Iwas like living a crazy person
lifestyle, like 18 year oldliving in New York.

(36:12):
Like I was, like I there'smodels here.
I've never seen a real model inreal life.
Like that's crazy.
They're signed to an agency.
Like oh my God, anyway, we goto LA.
Right, I go by myself.
No friends in LA, like I'm.

(36:33):
Like I'm going to school formarketing, move downtown, like,
start going to school.
And as I was going to school, Iwas working as a makeup artist.
And as I was working as amakeup artist, I went to a job.
There was one model there.

(36:54):
The other model didn't show up.
I had done like.
I said like I had shot withthat creepy guy North Carolina,
yeah, um, I had like a littlebit of experience in front of
the camera.
They asked me if I would modelthe stuff and I would get her
rate.
I was like they told me herrate.
I was like girl, like that'sway more than I'm getting paid

(37:16):
as a makeup artist and I'mputting all that money back into
my kit so I can keep workingLike I would like.
Once you put like so much moneyback into your makeup kit, it's
like you get like scraps.
You know, it's like really hardbeing a makeup artist and
lugging your shit around.
It's like a tiny person.
Um, I was like fuck it, likeokay, I'll model.

(37:37):
So I modeled and then I gotmore modeling jobs.

Do you remember what the first gig was?

Like some random, like Japanese brand.
So, um, and I had hair at thetime, yeah, and so I was like,
okay, crazy.
And then I'm like, hmm, start,you know, experimenting with my
hair, you know just doing abunch of stuff like doing fun

(38:11):
photo shoots with my friend.
Um, I ended up moving toanother spot downtown with my
friend that I met at school andBianca Um, she's an incredible
photographer and she was justtrying to get into photography
and I was like, can you takepictures of me so that I can
like, maybe make this a realthing?

(38:32):
And so she started like takingpictures of me and she was
building her book.
I was building mine.
Um, I was also like living aninsane like lifestyle.
Like I was still like trying to, like I was going out all the
time like doing crazy things.
Um, my hair at this point wasgetting super, super damaged.

(38:53):
So one day I was like I justshaved my head, like she like
videoed it.
I shaved my head and she tookphotos of it and, like,
immediately, like I startedbooking so many modeling jobs.
And then, oh, throughout this,like right before, right before
I signed to a modeling agency,um, there was a setback like in

(39:17):
my mental health, likeeverything was going really well
.
I was struggling with anxietyand stuff, um, but there was a
shooting in my building downtownand my neighbor got shot in
front of my door and died.
So I came home one day I wasgetting all these texts.
They were like are you okay?

(39:37):
What's going on?
And I was getting all thesetexts because my friend's sister
like lived there or lived andworked there.
And he was like working in thelike leasing office, yeah, and
he was like check the news, likefor your building.
And I was like what the fuckthat's?

(39:59):
I share a wall with the guy whogot shot and killed.
So I come home and the carpetsripped up in front of my door
and that was like where he waskilled.
And so I was that sent me like alife is scary, like here I go
back to being crazy and likementally and well, um, and I

(40:20):
move out of that building likeliterally within like 48 hours.
I like don't sleep, I'm like ona sick one, I'm like I gotta
get the fuck out of here.
But I'm not going back to NorthCarolina or anywhere else, I'm
moving to West Hollywood.
So I moved to West Hollywood,near all the clubs, and by this
point I have almost graduatedand I finally graduate, signed

(40:53):
to a modeling agency and thenI'm like, okay, I need to start
like making money because I haveto.
Yeah.
So modeling is so unpredictableyou can work for, you know,

(41:16):
three months straight, make agrip of money and then don't
work for a year.
That's just how it works.
Trends come and go.
Trends are people.
You know my shaved head, mytattoos.
I'm also small for a model, so,like me, getting booked is like
you know, kind of you neverknow.

(41:38):
And so I start working as aclub promoter.
I've never said that in aninterview.
Never admitted it.

Wait, so we're going to pause there.

Yeah.

I want to hear about that.
That's very exciting.
It's like I can understandnetworking wise how that would
open so many doors.
But so I want you to realizethis.
I'm starting to see some of thehow you got to where you are,
and what I want to say is have Ibring this up on each podcast

(42:15):
episode, because this is one ofthe things that I love?
Have you read or heard of thebook Outliers?
By chance.
So the point of this book is totalk about how people who are
great at something, people thatwe put not on a pedestal, but we
just know that they are greatat whatever they do, but like

(42:37):
exceptional.
So one of the examples I givefrom that book is Bill Gates.
He grew up in a small town thathappened to have a library that
had a computer and one of theonly computers in I think it's
the state, and he would go upthere and work on this computer.

(42:57):
That's like brand new andnobody knows how to work it, but
he figures it out.
Whenever he's a kid and hehappens to go to a college
that's in his hometown, that oneof the only computer labs in
the US, and he has alreadylearned to use the computer, so

(43:21):
he's already like way ahead ofeverybody, and so he puts in all
these hours that nobody elsecan on a computer.
And so the place that he wasborn was an outlier.
The outlier just means likewhat are the freak of nature
type things that have to happenin order to make somebody
ridiculously great.
And it has so many otherexamples.

(43:43):
But what I wanted to say hereand what's so interesting, to
just use this Goraphobia, you,being in your house for so long
allowed you to do things thatpeople who are going to school
daily could not do.
So you said that you wereplaying with makeup all the time

(44:06):
, right?
And like, tell me some otherthings that you would do at home
.
While basically everybody elseis at school, you were doing
things at home that wereprobably things that you were
more passionate about so makeup,but how were you spending your
time?

Um, literally that's it Makeup and listening
to music.

There you go.
So you put so many hours intolearning makeup, learning how to
do it, I'm sure, in manydifferent I'm not like a makeup
person, obviously, but I'm surethat so many different styles,
so many different techniques.
You're exploring this and thatand failures, and oh, that works

(44:53):
.
So you're honing in on that andtrying different things while
people are at school.
They have to pay attention inclass.

Yeah, and also quick question If I asked you
something you learned in highschool, or like something you
learned in college, do you evenremember, like off top of your
head?

Maybe in the class that I actually cared
about.

Right, like I didn't give a shit about any of
that shit at all.

Yeah, one thing that I found except for English
but I still made it.
See, I'm going to find a goodpoint here is that I think
people who are very, verycreative and just to their core
are creative and they go on todo great things.
I think that almost all of themhated school because we don't

(45:47):
like the rigidity of like youhave to do this, that and the
other, but we all love learningand we like learning about
things that we care about, soyou were learning about makeup.
And then you went to marketingschool and you did music stuff.

Well, I will also say, though, I wanted to go to
marketing school, kind of tolearn about what, like doing you
know, doing you know owning myown brand.
But also, dude, I only reallywent to marketing school.

(46:26):
Like, I'll tell you thishonestly, I could not tell you
one thing that I learned inmarketing school that I applied
in my life, or that I will beapplying to my company if I
launch one.
I love that I love that I do notbelieve.
I do not believe in that typeof education.

(46:50):
I think that living life willgive you the education that is
the most important for livingthe lifestyles that we live.

I think that that's so true.
I didn't go to school for music.

Yeah, fuck that.
It's a waste of money.
You could literally spend yourtime doing things that will
benefit you in a much better way.
Yeah, like I, yeah.

I do personally love learning, like.
So, if there's something thatI'm interested in, I will seek
out either a book, an onlinecourse or something like that,
and I'll just like take this onething and learn about this one
thing, like starting a business.
I went very deep into learningabout that thing, but anything

(47:43):
surrounding that I just don'tcare about.

I don't care about that bullshit and it's literally
a waste of time.
You will spend so many hourslike working on school projects,
homework, reading things.
I mean I think reading isimportant and everyone should
read, but it's like I don'tremember anything that I read in

(48:07):
high school or college.
Like that shit is wild.

Like yeah, I'm very much on the same page.
I didn't give much of a shit.
I made really good grades.
Waste of time, except for inmath I fucking suck at math.
But but to the point that I wassaying with the Goraphobia
thing, that that is part of youroutlier or that is your outlier

(48:33):
you put in so many hours intodoing makeup and that's what
propelled you to get out of yourhometown.
That's what sustained lifewhile you're in New York.
You came out here.
That's what sustained life fora while is because you honed in
this craft that you were so goodat.

(48:54):
And I think that as we keep ontalking, I know that makeup and
beauty is going to be like avery deep fabric of who you are.
And if you didn't haveGoraphobia, if you weren't at
home constantly doing makeup,maybe you would have gone to
school and come home and done ita couple of hours, but then you

(49:16):
would have had homework.
I'm sure your parents wouldhave made you go to sleep early,
like this circumstance is whatallowed you to hone in a craft
that nobody else could have hadthe amount of years that you had
whenever you went to New York.
So I find that's a very deepfabric of what makes you special

(49:38):
is like you are able to put inhours at an early age in this
craft.
That's so creative and artisticThanks.
And now we can go back to youbeing a club promoter.

So, yeah, I was a club promoter and I was modeling
at the same time and duringthis period of time, I was like
going through a bunch of crazyshit that, like I never thought
I would go through, like what.
Like as I was modeling and it'scrazy because I was like I swear

(50:15):
I'm never going to bring thisup, but and I think modeling is
a great thing and I think it's agreat opportunity if you have
that opportunity Like, I thinkit's wonderful and like it's an
amazing way to see like Ilearned so much about marketing
when I was modeling because Ilike saw like the behind the

(50:38):
scenes, I saw like everyonethere like literally doing an
incredible job, like.
But I dealt with a lot ofinappropriate, disgusting
behavior that triggered me basedupon what I had been through

(51:03):
with modeling.

From photographers.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.
And there was like an extensivelist that came out in like a
few years ago that had like overa hundred like photographers
that were like blacklisted justbecause of the things that they
would do.

(51:26):
That pisses me off To modelsBecause they think models are
just toys or like props.
And also everyone uses modeling.
It's like a stepping stone,like no one's like oh, I'm going
to be a model forever, like no.
Like I was trying to make moneyand at the same time I did

(51:51):
really enjoy it.
When it was good, it was good,but when it was bad, it was like
really bad.
Like there was a point where Ithere was a really bad incident
that happened.
I mean, some shit would happenand it's like damn, like that
sucks.
I'm going to go cry about itfor two days and it's going to

(52:12):
suck and like I'll get throughit and I'll like tell everyone
else that I know not to workwith them.
But then there was like anincident where, like I was at
the police station for like anentire day with my modeling
agent.
I had like a call from thepresident of the agency Like oh
my God, I can't even imaginewhat happened.
And then we all decided we'renot going to say who it was,

(52:36):
because, hey, it's just reallyhard to like when you're in a
position like this or like youknow.
I know that Lady Gaga said inan interview too one time, like
that she would never say who itwas because she never wants to
face him and this type of shithappens.

(52:57):
It's the same as what I saidwith, like the person in my
hometown like I don't ever wantto see this person again, I
don't ever want to speak to themagain, I don't ever want to
like have to.
You know, of course, like I'llbring it up in conversation
during things like this, butthis is the only time I've ever
brought it up in conversation,like in with a camera or like in

(53:20):
some sort of like podcast orinterview, and it's like just
insane how common it is.
It's like if you want to be amodel, you have to have a thick
skin.
You're getting rejected,rejected, rejected, and then
when you get accepted, great forsomething, or you get the job,
like sick, like you're going tohave a great time, probably like

(53:43):
80% of the time.
The other 20% it's like you'rerunning on no sleep, like you're
surrounded by models who arelike so insanely beautiful.
It was like triggering myeating disorder at a point
really bad made my like bodydysmorphia really bad.

(54:04):
Like yeah, modeling is hard.
And then during that I was alsolike in the club promoter scene
and like going out every nightand like, of course, I was like
come home like and sleep forlike two days because I would
just be so exhausted.

(54:25):
But I was just like trying tomake money and, granted, I was
like living, I was like having agood time but, like all my
friends were like drug addicts,escorts or industry people and

(54:45):
bro, all the industry peoplethat I met as a club promoter,
that I became friends with likebro, I have not asked anyone for
anything that I met back then,or like no one has helped
further my career that I metback then.

That's very interesting and yeah and great
for people to know.

Yeah.

That's clearly where, because whenever I
stopped and went back and I saidwe continue this, my mind
immediately went to was like, oh, you probably like met someone
in the club promoter scene.

No, I mean, I met great people that I'm still
friends with to this day.
Half of them were dead but likea lot of them I don't talk to
because they're like still offthe rails or like married to an
old guy.
But, like I don't know, I justI.

(55:52):
That's when I met, like Kelsand like Maude and like everyone
.
I met them all back then but Ihaven't, like I haven't worked
together on like a music level.

Yeah, but I'm sure that it will come back
around to this conversation.
But I have a feeling that that,that part of your life, if it
hadn't happened the way that itwas, you just wouldn't be the
person that you are.

Well, yeah, because if I hadn't have had that time
in my life, I wouldn't have,like made friends with, like my
best friend in the world, wholike is the person who
ultimately, in a weird way, madeit so that I could start my
music career.

Who is that person?

My best friend that I met through this girly pop.
It was like her man at the timeand we all three hung out and

(57:14):
he was like, when I met him, howold was he?
I think he was like 20 when wemet.
That is Tristan as my bestfriend ever.
He was sober when we met.
We met like like I met herthrough nightlife, like I met

(57:34):
her through like the clubpromoter, like seeing whatever.
And, by the way, at the time Iwas like not telling people I
was club promoter, I would justgo out with my friends and I
would be getting paid and likebe club promoting like on the
low, like they would be like whydo you have a table with all
these bottles?
and I'm like, oh my god, I don'tknow.
But yeah, so I met him.

(57:55):
He just like I don't know, wejust like instantly clicked and
became like very close.
It was weird because he waslike family to me and he was
sober, he had just got offheroin and then and then he was

(58:22):
around me during the whole liketime that I was working in
nightlife and he was like I wantto do it with you and so we
became this like power nightlifeduo and became so close he
tattooed his name on me.
I tattooed mine on him in thesame spot, because I got a

(58:46):
tattoo gun for Christmas oneyear.
Because my parents became likesuper, like progressive and like
so cool and like because, like,I started like being like I'm
still me, but I'm like doing allthis cool stuff, like I mean,
well, they didn't know about thecrazy shit.
So Tristan kind of was likethis family person, like to me,

(59:10):
like he was always there for meno matter what, like anytime
that I would be seeing someone,it would go bad.
He would always be there.
Anytime I needed anything, hewould always be there and like
with balloons or something.
And he was like this scruffy,like floppy hair, like boy so

(59:34):
tall, like he was a model aswell and he like brought me to
his mom's house, like introducedme to his mom and her like this
.
And because we were innightlife, he started being like

(59:55):
I think I'm going to drinkagain.
I'm just going to try it, I'mjust going to do a little, I'm
just going to smoke a littleweed, like everything's going to
be fine.
I'm like, okay, just be careful.
Like to get it like whateverstarts doing other stuff.
I'm like, okay, be careful, Iget it.
Everyone's doing that, it'sfine, whatever.

(01:00:17):
And then he had dealt with a lotgrowing up and then it just
started becoming like he waslike doing more things, doing
more things, and I was doingless things and I was like he's
freaking me out, like it's notgoing good.
And then I was like falling inlove with him because he was
like my best friend, he was myperson, you know.
And then he would be like Ican't be with you because I'm

(01:00:44):
not doing good right now.
I need to get better and do allthis stuff.
And I'm like, yeah, like you do, like, but I'm here, I'm like
supporting.
And there was a point where hewas like trying to get sober at
my house and he was like havingseizures, like on my floor, like
hitting his head on the floor,and I was like just holding him
because I was trying to get himsober, because I knew like he
needed to get sober because shewas getting bad, like he was

(01:01:07):
doing bad shit again, and I waslike you can do it like I'm
practically sober at this point.
I'm just like I'm over it, likeI'm just seeing all the bad
shit.
I'm tired.
I'm like fucking exhausted.
Come on, like you got this.
He ends up getting sober againand then we're spending a lot of

(01:01:30):
time together, but he's like sosad, he's like so depressed,
he's like I miss not being soberand this is like the classic
like story.
It's like if I don't do drugs,I'm gonna kill myself because
I'm so I hate being sober.
Like I hate it so much, like Ihate the way.

(01:01:50):
Look, I hate the way I feellike I hate this, I hate that.
And then I'm like, okay, well,if you like need to smoke weed
again to be here, like you cando that, like whatever.
And then I the whole liketimeline is so fucked up to me
because everything was happeningso quickly and like there would

(01:02:10):
be time periods where, like Iwouldn't speak to him, or like
he wouldn't speak to me or hewould just be rogue.
There was like a time periodwhere his mom kicked him out
because he started using again,but like just little things, and
then he started staying withfriends and then, fall of 2019,

(01:02:33):
he didn't come to my birthday,which was in November, and I was
like where are you like this?
We're like this.
You know we never.
We never were like fully datingbecause he was always like I
just want to be better and thenwe can be together like at some
point.
Like I know we're like I knowwe're gonna like have kids

(01:02:54):
together, I know we're likegetting married, like I know we
are like and I'm like, yeah, cuzyou're my best friend and like
all this other shit anyway.
So he didn't show up to mybirthday.
I was texting him.
He was he like hit me up thenext day, was like I'm sorry I
didn't make it, everythingmisspelled, I'm like, but he

(01:03:15):
like sent me a selfie.
He's like where are you?
I'm like he's he's like onanother planet, like alright,
whatever, my my homie was likedon't see him when he's like
this, like da, da, da, da, da.
And I'm like, okay, biggestregret of my life.
He was like bouncing aroundfrom like friend's house to

(01:03:38):
friend's house.
And then I talked to him onChristmas because I was like I
remember I was like in NorthCarolina for Christmas and I was
like Merry Christmas, like da,da, da, da, da.
And he's like I'm in thehospital.
I'm like what the fuck happened?
He's like I don't know.
I woke up like I think I OD'dlike on the sidewalk or
something.
Like he's friend, he OD'd withhis friends that he was with

(01:04:00):
that.
He was like couch surfing, likehe was crashing at their place
and I guess it was like a drugdealer or something and they
dropped on that sidewalk andcalled 911 because they didn't
want to get in trouble.
So he woke up, like onChristmas or like some like one
of the days, like before orafter Christmas, I don't even
remember 2019.
He was like, yeah, I woke up inthe hospital like I think I

(01:04:22):
OD'd, like, oh my god, and thenI'm like I went once I get back
in town, like I'm gonna make it,make more of an effort to like
be around him and stuff.
Like, even if he's not sober,like it's fine, like I just
needed to be around him.
And then I was like talking tohim, like and then I run into

(01:04:45):
him at a party in January of2020 and, well, I told him to
come and this was also rightafter I met Maggie.
I met Maggie and like I think itwas like November, december of
2019, and we immediately becamelike best friends and I was with

(01:05:09):
Maggie at this party.
I was like I can't wait for youto meet Tristan.
He's like the best person inthe world.
He's like, he's like me, likewe're the same.
He's just like going through it, but you're gonna love him.
So he comes, and at that partyit was me, maggie, and then I
met this guy named it was adifferent Austin but he was like

(01:05:38):
, have you ever thought aboutmaking music?
And I was like not really.
I mean, I know I can screambecause, like an ex that I had,
that was like in the musicindustry, like heard me scream,
tall thorn heights, like Ohio isfor lovers, like for fun, like
being funny one day.

Austin Seltzer (01:05:55):
I think we've all streamed to that.

Siiickbrain (01:05:56):
Yeah, and he's like wait, why can you actually
scream?
And I was like I have no ideathat I even could, but anyway.
So I like had in the back of myhead that like if I ever wanted
to do music which I did myentire life I wanted to do music
.
But I was too scared and so Iwas like, yeah, to make up
whatever, I'll stay, like youknow, in the back, but I was
like slowly getting pushed likemore, like in front of the

(01:06:17):
cameras and like whatever.
Anyway.
So back to that party.
I met that guy.
It was like if you ever thoughtof doing music, I was like
maybe we could like fuck around,like make something one day.
Tristan comes I introduce himto Maggie.
My good friend Daniel was therewho was like also, like it was

(01:06:37):
like the trifecta of like thenightlife club kids like it was
me, daniel and Tristan, andDaniel was there and me and
Tristan like went out on theside patio and we're like
talking for a long time and itwas like, oh yeah, like we
should just say fuck it and likebe together or whatever.
And then I'm like okay, but Ineed to go home.

(01:07:02):
I'm like so tired.
I like say bye to Maggie, I saybye to Austin and then like I
say bye to Daniel, and then Iturn around and Tristan's there
and Daniel's like why don't youguys just like date already?
like this is fucking ridiculouswe like kiss, and he's like
whatever, I'm like okay, I'llsee you soon.
I leave.

(01:07:23):
We like make plans, like acouple weeks later I'm out or we
make plans.
I FaceTime him.
I'm like I'll see you tonight.
Like do you want to hang outtonight?
And he was like I havesomething tonight, but let's
hang out tomorrow night.
I was like I can come with youto the thing tonight.

(01:07:45):
He's like no, no, no, it's liketoo dangerous.
He's probably like doing somelike shady, like drug deal or
something.
He's like it's too dangerous.
I'm like okay, even though,like I can hold my own, I can
literally get with you.
I don't care, I just want to bewith you.
I don't care.
He's like I'll see you tomorrow.
I'll see you tomorrow.
Like let's go out tomorrow.

(01:08:05):
I'm like okay, okay, but I goout with my friends to Warwick,
couple people in nightlife andFemme you know, femme, yeah.
I do.
Yeah, with green hair, my queenand we had just became friends,
like I mean, no, we had knowneach other for I guess a couple

(01:08:25):
years, but we weren't superclose at this point.
But we were out.
I was text interested and I waslike, hey, where are you?
I was like where you at?
He didn't hit me back.
I was like okay, whatever, likehe's just doing something.
And then I like look towardsthe door I'm like having a great

(01:08:47):
time, by the way.
I like look towards the doorand my friend Daniel's walking
in and he's like looks weird.
I'm like what the fuck?
Like Daniel's?

here let's rage.

And then I see my other homie who, like had grew
up with Tristan behind him andthey're like kind of like
looking around.
They're like I think Daniellike grabbed a bottle.
I'm like like off someone'stable.
I like jump down, like off thelike railing.
I'm like yeah, like let's getlit.
And he literally looks me deadin the face and I will never

(01:09:21):
forget this moment.
He was like he's gone.
I was like what?
I was like who?
I was like what's going on?
What are you talking about?
He was like Tristan.
I was like what do you mean?
And he was like he's gone andhe was like he's dead.
And then my friend that likegrew up with him, like was right
behind him and he was like I'msorry.

(01:09:42):
And I was like you're joking,right, like you're joking, like
you're literally joking me,right, and I was like what the
fuck?
I was like no, that's literallyimpossible.
I just texted him.
We had plans tonight.
Like it's literally impossible.
So we walk out, and this was thelast day of January.

(01:10:06):
It was like midnight.
I walk outside, I startfighting everyone.
I'm like fighting people.
Femme is like chasing after me.
My other homie is chasing afterme.
I'm like fighting people.
I'm like there's no fucking way.
Everyone shut the fuck up.
I'm like the bouncers arestaring at me.
I'm like screaming, kickingshit, breaking shit.

(01:10:29):
I didn't even know that I hadthis in me, because I am not
that type of a girl.
I was like we're calling anUber to his place right now.
Call an Uber to his place.
I'm like Daniel, get in thefucking car, let's go, he's fine
, I'll prove it.
Like let's go.
We get into the car.
We show up to the apartment.
We like went to the wrongaddress at first because we were

(01:10:51):
both like what the fuck isgoing on?
I'm like calling everyone.
I like call like my homie fromBrooklyn.
I'm like I don't know what'sgoing on.
I'm freaking out.
I call my mom, freaking out.
I'm like do I call his mom?
I'm like I don't know what'sgoing on.
I shouldn't call his mom.
Like I'm panicking.

(01:11:11):
I don't know what to do.
I'm like I'm freaking out.
I like can't breathe.
I'm just panicking.
I'm like I'm calling people.
I'm like calling people that Iknow we're up, my friends.
I'm like I don't know who elseto call because I would call
Tristan, you know, and I show upthere and there's cop cars and
I'm like you're fucking kiddingme and me and Daniel run like

(01:11:35):
top speed to the elevator andwe're like we get in the
elevator and they're like whoare you?
And we're like both like at thesame time.
We're like, oh, we're hisfamily, because that's like what
it was.
And we get up there, we walk tohis apartment, they're like
okay, they like didn't questionus.

(01:11:56):
We said we're family, we'relike good, the way that his
place was set up.
It's like the apartment.
And then like which?
It was his homie spot.
It wasn't his, because he waslike couch surfing and there was
a couch.
You could see the back of hishead and his hair like his
floppy, and then there was likea cop in front of him just
taking pictures with flash, likea bunch of pictures, and I'm

(01:12:20):
like what the fuck I'm?

like this my whole life right here.

Like this is my person, like this is the person
that I always call.
No matter what, daniel walks in, immediately turns around.
He's like don't go in there.
And I like tried to go in thereand I swear to God, I've never
felt something like this before.
But I tried to walk through thedoor and I couldn't like it was

(01:12:48):
like there was something, itwas blocking me from going in
there.
And then we just left and itwas like throwing up on the
sidewalk.
I was just like crying.
I was like I don't know what todo.
We like went to my house andlike laid in my bed until the
sun came up and it was like theweirdest thing ever.
And then, yeah, it was justsuper weird.

(01:13:12):
And then that's the moment whenI was like unwell for weeks at
a time.
And then I think it was like acouple days later, my homie that
I met that night.
That was the last time that Ilike saw him.
He was like do you want to dosomething?
And I was like, honestly, bro,anything to get my mind off this
, let's go record something.

(01:13:34):
And that's when I made my firstsong.

So wow, thank you so much for sharing.

I just like kept going.

Oh, thank you for sharing that.
That, wow.
It makes I understand how, ifyou didn't tell that story in
that way, I don't think that meor anybody would understand the
impact that he had on you.
I have a couple small questions.

(01:14:04):
One did he OD?

Yeah, he ODed on fentanyl, but he was it wasn't
laced, he was taking it onpurpose because he was already
like so used to doing heroin.
and also he had, like, after hepassed, the person that he was
staying with told us like he hadOD'd like probably three times

(01:14:28):
between Thanksgiving and when heOD'd for the last time, like
yeah, that wow, yeah, it's crazyand there were a bunch of weird
things surrounding his deathtoo, like it was obviously an OD

(01:14:49):
and everything, but there werelike weird things, like when I
went with his mom to go pick uphis stuff from like the corner
or wherever you go to pick up, Ithink it's.
I think it's the corner's office.
I was wearing this necklacewhen I found out, like the night
that he passed and it was alittle silver angel from Dalmada

(01:15:12):
, and whenever we picked up hisstuff, they what they do like if
you haven't like done thatbefore, they like slide
everything across and tell youwhat it is in like a super
dramatic, like weird way.
Why are you guys so dramatic?
Just hand us the stuff like I'mtrying to get the fuck out of
here.
They were like this rolled updollar bill, that's what he had

(01:15:34):
in his mouth.
This, that's what he had in hispocket.
This is his wallet, here's that, here's this.
And they slid across the exactsame necklace that I was wearing
that night when he passed awaySome brand Dalmada, like Angel.

(01:15:55):
Wow and he.
That was like the only necklacehe had on weird right yes and so
I feel like he's like kind ofalways like with me and like
kind of like I always.
I'm like, oh, I have like theseunexplainable like things that
happen to me now and I'm justlike I don't know, like like I
feel like I'm a spiritual personbut like honestly, like the

(01:16:18):
only thing that I can even likechalk shit up to is just like
it's him.
You know, when shit like weirdhappens, I'm like how come, like
I had been listening to likethis one artist and then they
hit me up and like they want todo a song?
Like it makes no sense.
How come I've had like theamazing opportunities I've had

(01:16:41):
since the beginning of 2020?
No sense, bro, and I'm not likea tiktoker, I'm like just an
artist and it's just so weird,yeah, but anyway, that's that.

So that's how I got into music yeah, you said
that he's the one who who reallyopened the door for music, and
you haven't explained that yet.

I'd love to hear yeah, I mean my whole life.
I like had had it in the backof my head.
I had like visions, like in theback of my head that I was
going to be like performing forcrowds, you know, at like
festivals and stuff, and I waslike I could never do that.
I'm scared to leave.
Like I'm scared to see oneperson, let alone play for a

(01:17:34):
crowd, let alone.
I don't even think I'm a verygood singer, but I can write
because I've been writing sinceI was, since I started like
being like a club promoter, likeI just started writing all this
shit down because like it wasweird, like I was like why am I
dealing with all this crazy shit?
And like who am I going to tell?
Yeah, so it literally was.

(01:17:56):
The fact that he passed thatliterally grabbed my fucking
face, shook me and was like thiscould be you tomorrow.
You could literally die in aday.
So why don't you do what thefuck you want?
Because life is just simply tooshort.

(01:18:17):
We don't know what's after this.
Like we don't know if we'regonna have like our own fucking.
We don't know if we're gonna beable to do what we really want
after.
Like we're not on this earth,so like we might as well fucking
just do it.
And so that's.
I just didn't leave the studio,like I just kept going back

(01:18:38):
yeah, because it was.
It was removing you from thepain and right it was handle it
somewhere right, and it was alsojust like screaming in my music
, just like, was super catharticand also like, well, the first
song that I ever wrote was abouthim.
I was still, to this day, justlike, can write a million songs

(01:19:02):
about us, you know, but yeahlet's um.

We talked before sitting down about how be or
Brent be, this.
I guess the beauty schooldropout guys are gonna come up a
lot of my podcast yeah.
I love them.
I want to know how you met.
Did you meet BSD, or was it so?

I, I, I met BSD, um briefly through like I kind of
knew Cole a little bit morethrough Bianca, the photographer
that I lived with, um, she wasreally tight with them um.
So I had met them like inpassing and stuff and then, um,

(01:19:51):
and I don't even know if theyhad music out at the time, but I
met be on a modeling job for,like, we were like doing some
shit together, um, and we justlike hit it off and um, yeah, we
ended up recording with me himin Diego, yeah.
I think, that was like so I methim and then like the whole

(01:20:15):
thing with Tristan passinghappened and then he they were
like some people that I got inwith like at the very, very,
very beginning yeah, be is theone that that I hit it off with
as well.

I he's such a beautiful soul like dude is so
fucking nice he's so nice, Ilove, I really love him um so I
met him first and then I I metBartow and Coley after, and yeah
, it makes so much sense that ona modeling job, I'm guessing

(01:20:51):
you had a buzzed head then.

Yeah, we were like twinning.
Yeah so funny.

That makes sense and then, okay, so at that time
, well, he introduced you toDiego and I told you that.
I went to the Blackbird Academyin 2015.
I don't know what year he washe was before me but whenever I
moved out here in 2016, I wasconnected to him and we haven't
hung out all that much.
But I love Diego.

(01:21:18):
He's an awesome dude, and soyour first recording session
ever was with Diego.

It was either with Diego or Austin.
They were probably both withina three-day span.

So you recorded with Diego and I know you said
the track didn't really goanywhere, but the feeling and
the emotion of just being ableto scream and get this emotion
out.
I'm guessing was a new type ofdrug.

Yeah.

And just something that made you really
you felt passionate aboutgetting out these feelings, and
I'm sure it was just anaddictive thing that I finally
have an outlet Right, and then Icould just write about
everything.
Yeah.

And yeah, and it's crazy, there were just so many
things that I learned aboutmusic that I just had never
known.
And, to be honest, dude, it wasso weird, like the timing of
everything If it would have beena different time it wouldn't
have done anything Like it wasreally interesting.
It was like I made my firstsong beginning of February, put

(01:22:34):
it out beginning of March onTristan's birthday, and then
didn't stop and, like COVID, hitin March.

Yeah, and what did you do during COVID?

Record.

It was perfect.

Yeah.

I think a lot of us, if we take a step back and
think about it.
Covid, while terrible in waysand I'm really sorry for the
people who passed and the peoplethat it really affected
financially and whatnot.

Me too.

Very tough.
That way, I think, also one ofthe greatest possible things if
you needed time to hone in acraft and put time into a
specific thing, like music,takes years in years in years of
time and effort and love andtrial and error, but you could

(01:23:26):
condense years down to monthsbecause we had so much time.
So, just being able to get inrecord, put your feelings into
something, learn the ins andouts of probably how like, if
you're working with Diego, howto tell him what you want that's
a whole new vocabulary.
But the cool thing is you'vebeen so deep into music

(01:23:48):
listening wise for so long thatyou have an ear.
You didn't have to train that,you just had to learn, probably,
how to-.

How to like say Valorize what you wanted Exactly
.

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, yeah, thank you so muchfor sharing all that Like.
I'm still trying to absorb that.
I've never had anything happento me like that and so like I
have never been in that position.
But I can really understand bythe way you told that story.
You know how that shaped whereyou're at right now.

Yeah, it's weird.
I'm like I don't know.
Thanks.

So I'm really curious with having so many
tattoos.
I wanna know kind of when thatstarted and what like the
impetus of getting your firsttattoo was and continuing to get
them.
I don't want to assume, I wantto ask, but I am guessing that

(01:25:02):
they somehow have to do withpushing certain people away or
certain.
You want to look a certain wayso that certain people, possibly
from your childhood and thosetype of very conservative,
judgmental people, are just kindof pushed out of your way.

Maybe like subconsciously, I did that, but
to be honest, I just like wanteda tattoo when I turned 18, I
had like always wanted one andobviously at the time I had hair
, and so I got it on the back ofmy neck.
So my mom couldn't see itbecause she was not about that,

(01:25:45):
and so I got my first tattoo onthe back of my neck.
It's little horseshoe givingfarm, and I'll probably get it
covered, honestly, soon.
I've been like on this thing oflike covering like tattoos.
I don't know why, really, but Igot that on my 18th birthday

(01:26:07):
with my sister.
She came with me, it wasshaking, I was so scared and I
got it and it was likeimmediately addicted.
I was like, oh, that wasn't evenbad and I like went back the
next week and like got anotherone and then I just like kind of
kept going, but I never likethought that I would end up
looking like this.
Like I think it kind of wasaccidental.

(01:26:28):
But now I look like this andI'm like, oh cool, it's just
like me, it's just like how Ilook.
Yeah, I mean, I honestly justdidn't put that much thought
into it.
I think a lot of the time I tryand like make things I like,
will create something in my headwhere I'm like trying to make
it like some deep thing.

(01:26:50):
But I'm wondering if maybe it'sjust like more of an in the
moment thing.
Like my legs mainly have justlike tattoos that, like my
friends have given me andthey're my favorite ones because
they're like moments that I'vecaptured, like this one like my
friend gave.
Actually, that's not true.

(01:27:10):
This one my friend like gave tome in my kitchen, like downtown
and those watching she waspointing at her knuckles.
Yeah, and like I have like abunch on this arm that I gave
myself just like at four am.
Yeah, like this one was a stickand poke from a photo shoot.

(01:27:35):
A hairstylist did it.
I don't even know why thehairstylist was there, because
I'm bald and I was bald at thattime.
But yeah, no, I just have like abunch of just random tattoos
that I got in the moment and Ilike to have them as more of
like an in the moment thing.
I like don't care if they'reshitty.
I just kind of am into blackand gray.

(01:27:56):
I had like a lot of color on myarm, but I just recently got it
blacked out just cause I likethe look of it.
There was definitely a timewhere I was kind of like I think
I'm pushing everyone awaybecause of the way that I look.
But now I'm kind of like damn,like, why'd I do that?
And then, yeah, I think alsosomething that I've found myself

(01:28:20):
doing is I always want to bedifferent.
Like I spent so much of my lifelike trying to fit in.
Like I said, like in highschool I was like trying to do
things, to try and make friendsor something or be like other

(01:28:42):
people.
But now I'm like yuck, like Idon't want to be like anyone
else because I want to be my ownperson and I want to be an
individual.
And like I'll get kind ofpissed off when, like people are
like copying my tattoos or likedoing something.
Like there were like a coupleof girlies who like shaved their

(01:29:05):
heads and like got like aspider neck tattoo and like X's
on their eyelids and I'm likedamn, that's like very specific
I'm like yucky.
yeah, yeah, it's weird.

So I want to know the juxtaposition possibly
of like what does your houselook like?

What does my house look like?

Yeah, what do so ?
This is your exterior.
This is how you show yourselfto the world, but I find, like
the place that you live, as theyin and yang representation of
somebody.

That's so funny.
So I just moved actually, but Iwas living in Laurel Canyon
since 2018, I think, oh, wow,you're there for a while.

A lot that that place saw.

A lot and I became really attached to that place
because just a lot of stuffhappened there.
I grew a lot as an individualthere.
There were posters all over mywalls like black bed frame, you
know.
I had like velvet bedding.
It was like green.
I had like a really cool likepink rug but it's not giving

(01:30:32):
like like it was giving likevintage, like it was giving like
very vintage rock and roll.
Like in Laurel Canyon.
I had like a bunch of stuff onthe walls.
It was really unique, like Ihad like a literal bird cage
like hanging from my ceiling,like with a bondage Barbie
inside.

Yes.

Yeah, it was giving that, and a bunch of Polaroids
too on the wall.
I'm like trying to paint you apicture.

I love it, I can see it.

Yeah, and a lot of books, a lot of records, stuff
like that Just giving likeLaurel Canyon rock and roll room
, and so I moved out a couple ofmonths ago.
I needed a change.
I wanted to live on my ownbecause like I had had friends
coming and going, like living inthe other room, which was cool.

(01:31:19):
But yeah, a couple of monthsago I kind of realized I was
kind of like living for I likehave this like people pleaser
thing inside of me but like Ijust always want to make sure
everyone else is comfortable andhappy, but at my own expense,

(01:31:40):
and it was really starting toget at me Like I was really
losing my sense ofcomfortability in my own home.
I ended up moving to a cutelittle bougie high rise in
Hollywood, which is weirdbecause I was like I'm never
moving down out of the canyonbecause I love it up there.

I really do, it's beautiful.

But I just kind of wanted to be somewhere like
really safe.
So I have like a conciergedoorman.
It's a little space though, butit's all white.
It's all white.
It's a lot of differenttextures.
Like I'm super about textures.
Right now I have like a likestone table.

(01:32:23):
I have like a bunch of like mybedding is made out of what's
that like?
It's linen bedding, neutraltones, a lot of plants, big view
, 14th floor.
It's giving something, but it'sgiving.
Small but it's giving.

(01:32:44):
I'm living here by myself and Ineed zen spa, cleansed vibe.
It always smells like sage inthere.
I always have candles burning.
If I have lights on, it's justthis little warm orange lighting
everywhere.
That's like the same color ofcandles.
I love that.

(01:33:05):
It's all like wood.
Like I kind of wanted toemulate like the one hotel a
little bit, but anyway, that'smy new place.

Yeah, I love that and that kind of makes
sense.
I don't know why.
It's mostly like your music, theway you look very edgy and like
rough beauty and I figured thatthere's like some kind of
juxtaposition of balance andyour places is that.

(01:33:33):
It sounds like it.
The LA is chaos and you saidthat your mind at times is chaos
and the place that you livebrings you some zen.
Okay, I want to move on to kindof the main point, I suppose,

(01:33:56):
of the podcast, although all ofthis really is.
But what does success mean toyou?

Right.

It's a very deep , thoughtful question.

It's just to me has changed.
I think when I was in thebefore time in the before time,
like before, I really grew upand I'm telling you, the
beginning of 2020 was a hugechange in who I am as an

(01:34:30):
individual.
Before, I think success meantlike the amount of money in your
bank account and howcomfortably you lived, but now
success to me just means likeliterally as corny as it sounds,

(01:34:51):
it literally means just likehaving done, or having access to
do, the things that like reallyfulfill me as an individual.
Like one of the things that Iwant in life is like just to

(01:35:15):
have out an incredible body ofwork that I'm really proud of as
me, not like, hey, what do youthink of this song?
I want your opinion Like mm-mm.
Like what do I think of thesong?
Yeah, because I've had to likefigure that out lately.

(01:35:36):
And, yeah, I think success isliterally just being proud of
who you are as an individual.

The beginning part of your answer, I think, is
my exact definition of success.
It's if I have an idea or someavenue of creativity that I want
to explore that I have theability to do that.
That is a financial thing.

(01:36:07):
I need to know that if I wantto start a coffee company, that
I am able to do that.
I have the resources.
If that were some money needed,or if that's relationships or
whatever, that I have theability to creatively pursue

(01:36:28):
something.
If I feel like that's too highand I can't really go for that
thing right now.
I need to step up to be able togo for that.
Like I want to be able tocreatively fulfill my dreams
that pop up.

Yeah.

And, yeah, I think that success the
definition always changes.
But I think throughout thistalk we've kind of explored why
I mean you are absolutelysuccessful.
You have set your mind toseveral different things rolled
with so many different punchesin life, and you just keep on

(01:37:08):
moving forward and you keep onstriving to create art.
And I think throughout thispodcast we've really explored
why you are so special and whypeople should look at your art.

(01:37:30):
And I'm certain that wheneveryou listen to your music,
whenever you look at your postslike your modeling stuff where
you are wearing these crazyextravagant, like alt pieces of
clothing, like it's just likemind boggling how cool these
pictures look, the artwork forall of your singles and music.

(01:37:53):
I mean it's just like so wellthought out.
I think throughout thisconversation people can
understand that your story isjust very special and you have
used all these experiences, verytough experiences, and you've

(01:38:13):
honed them into something that Ithink resonates profoundly.
I genuinely feel that.

Thank you.

Yeah, and I'm certain that if we did this a
year from now, successful willlook slightly different.
I think that's the.
Thing that always changes.

I think so too yeah .

I don't think happiness does.
I think that that's one partwith everybody I've talked with.
Success goes from amaterialistic thing which is
probably always there.
I'm certain that you want to bewell off financially and you
want to have great friends andyou want to be able to explore
things creatively and this andthat.

(01:38:54):
But I think the one thing thatalways stays constant is the
happiness aspect.
You want to be doing thingsthat make you happy.

Yeah, absolutely.
Sometimes I don't know whatthat is Like.
I'm sure a lot of people feelthat way.
Like sometimes I'll be in myroom and I'm like what do I even
feel like doing, you know?

Yeah, it's weird .
I think that's very human.

Yeah.

We don't always know until we know.

No, you're right.

There's a moment where something will hit you
and you're like I have to dothat.

Yeah, absolutely.

That is what I have to do right now.
Tattoos it's that feeling Likewhenever you have that spark.
I think, the ability to act onit right there.
That's like.
That's one of the best feelingsI want to talk about this that
you wrote there.
Leave something for me.
Yes.
Slightly touched on it before.

(01:39:55):
But why did you leave?
Why did you write?
Leave something for me.

I wrote that because it's kind of like a
reminder for me.
But also I just had thisconversation with my manager and
he's also like one of myclosest friends.
He's wonderful, but we bothstruggle with like.
This is just like a topic likesuper relevant in our lives

(01:40:23):
right now.
Like we just give so much toother people in terms of like
making sure they're comfortableat our own expenses, or giving
so much time, or like listeningto someone going through

(01:40:46):
something for so long that it'slike but they didn't even listen
to what I'm feeling or what I'mgoing through.
They're not leaving a secondfor me.
It's kind of like what it feelslike.
So it's a reminder to just likehold the universe and like

(01:41:10):
myself like accountable for likewhat I need as an individual in
order to be happy.

Yeah, I'm currently reading a book because
my buddy Sai put me onto this.
It's called Not Nice and I amlearning so much from it.
The whole point of this book isthat we need to stop being nice
.
And what?
Nice means in this book?

(01:41:41):
Is this facade that we put onto make others feel good, or
that's not the right way to sayit?
Nice is just a facade that weput on to not stir the waters
like in your hometown.

Yeah.

Nice is us just being agreeable or listening and
nodding our head to somethingthat we are not passionate about
, we don't agree with, but wedon't want to make somebody feel
a certain way Totally differentthan kind.
We should all be kind people,right, but nice is disingenuine.

(01:42:22):
Yeah, like you were saying, notlike you.
Just taking so much of yourtime to make everybody feel good
is expending so much of yourenergy and we really have to
think about ourselves, becausethen we can bring the best
version of ourselves to thetable.

(01:42:43):
And it's so difficult.

Yeah.

Because I feel like the industry that we're in,
or really any industry that'screative, we always feel like we
shouldn't stir the waters ormake somebody feel a certain way
, oh yeah.
Yeah, will I get the callback.
Will I get on this tour.
Will I get on this feature?
Will I be able to mix the nextsingle?

You know it's like Right, but it's also, at the
same time, something that I'verealized, like lately is kind of
like, if you feel like youcan't open your mouth to like
say like how you feel aboutsomething that may you know, get
in the way of you doingsomething, or get in the way of
you doing a feature, or get inthe way of you going on tour

(01:43:26):
with someone, it's like, bro, doyou even want to be going on
tour with them?
Anyway, if you don't agree onsuch a level that you're afraid
to like open your mouth, they'relike.
You know what I mean.

Yes, so what song of yours?
I'm not trying to lead this.
Actually.
I really want to know what songof yours kind of like started
the ball rolling downhill whenyou're.
I mean you went on freakingtour with Bring Me the Horizon,

(01:43:55):
so dope Love them, I've lovedthem forever.
But we're just saying whereyour career is going.
I mean we're just making a lotof music, going on tours, doing
this and that.
What is the song that reallystarted the ball rolling?

Probably.
I mean, I feel like it's beenkind of progressive throughout,
just like me beginning music,but one that I feel like a lot
of people kind of like know mefor being a part of is this girl
, swaley song.
Yeah, yeah.

I mean certainly I personally.
That's the first time that Iheard you.
Oh really.
Yeah, yeah.
So I want to know how that cameabout, like what were the
things that happened before thattrack?

And then, how did you link up with Skrillex and so
I had literally this is sofunny and I feel like people are
going to hate me for this, butthis is just one of those things
that just literally happenedand it happened literally, I

(01:45:15):
think like a couple months afterI even started recording music,
Like Skrillex just hit me upand was like do I know you?
Like what is up?
You scream in music.
That's cool, Because obviouslyhe's from a very hardcore
background.
Yeah, he's like what's up withthat?

(01:45:39):
And he was like can we chat?
And I'm like, yeah, we can chat.
Like what is up?
I was like confused.
I was like is he trying to likeget at me?
But no, not at all.
He was literally just like whatis going on?

(01:46:00):
Like you're doing somethingdifferent and you're a girl
artist?
And he was like what do youwant to come to the studio?
And I'm like, yeah, honestly,sure, like fuck it, Like what do
I have to lose?
Got in a situation and I calledlike my homie who had like

(01:46:25):
literally it was one of the onlypeople that I had recorded with
and I was like, should I go?
Like what is tea here?
Because obviously, like, givenmy history just in life, like
okay, dude hits me up, he wantsme to come to the studio.
Okay, Like you know, Absolutelyyeah.

(01:46:47):
But literally no.
Like I was so shook.
He was like sweetest, nicestperson ever.
He was like I love your stuff,what's going on?
And I'm like that's so crazy, Idon't know what I'm doing.
Like I have no idea what'sgoing on.
And he was like let's fuckaround.
Like you know, his homie heavymetal star like playing guitar.

(01:47:10):
I was like, okay, I just like.
There's a mic in the middle ofa room.
I'm like low key, shaking in myboots and, bro, I just like
scream on a mic in the middle ofthe room.
I don't even think I hadheadphones on.
Like I think I just likestarted screaming this shit on
this track and they were likefucking with it.

(01:47:32):
We like hung out a little bitlonger.
I like bounced.
He calls me like a few dayslater.
He's like hey, I think likewe're going to get this person
on the track.
I'm like for real, like this isactually going to be a real
song.
What's going on?

Did he say Swaley at that time?

He said someone else and then he like called me
like a week later and was likejust kidding, Getting Swaley on
it Like my God, that's crazy.
Yeah, I can't and so he likelike, come through, I want to
play for you.
I'm like, okay, he plays it forme.
I'm like I should recut vocals,like in my head.
I'm like I was so nervous Ididn't know what I was doing.

(01:48:08):
Obviously, like you know, wemade the track like a year
before it came out and like, ordid it come out in?
No, it came out in.
Yeah, it came out in 2021.
So we made it like a yearbefore it came out.
And so over time, I was like,fuck, like I'm in the studio all

(01:48:30):
the time, by the way, likeafter I first go in, like not
with him, just like in general.
So I'm just like progressively,like figuring out like my vocal
sound and like how I like tosound and like how I like to
record.
So I went and retract thevocals, like three times, and
then he like he was just the onefrom the first day.
I'm like that's crazy, causethere was.
He was like there was an energy, you know, and I'm like period,

(01:48:53):
do whatever you want.
Seriously, like, do whateveryou want, like that's so far.

And then he clearly knows, you know what the
vibe of a record is supposed tobe like.

Yeah, so yeah, I mean, and then too bizarre
happened.
And then after that he was like, oh, I'm going to do another
version for the album.
I'm like, okay, it's crazy andit's funny because like I know I
shouldn't do this, but like Ilike read the comments on that
song, like I was kind of likeooh, scary, because obviously

(01:49:28):
Swaley's audience not a lot ofthem have probably heard
screaming before.
Yeah.
So it was like people eitherloved it or didn't.
My part at least.
I mean the rest of the songobviously is pristine, but yeah,
it made me feel a little bit.
I was like, oh, my.

(01:49:49):
God, yeah, I've never.

I've never read a comment on that track, but I
fucking love it and I reallythink that that juxtaposition
Thanks.
I mean, that track would not bewhat it is without that.
I really think that you guysharness something cool and it's
so funny.
I've never met him, never metSunny, but I have this like very

(01:50:11):
weird, like hindered spiritfeeling about him.

Dude, he is just so sweet.
He's just a little sweet angel.
I don't know there's likesomething so special about him
because he just loves art.
He's given me the best advicein life and in music.

(01:50:35):
He's just, he's just like bro,the industry is so saturated
with like literally pieces ofshit people and like it's just
so rare to find like real peoplelike him.
And yeah, I don't know, I justlove him.

Maybe that's why I feel that I have worked with
so many people that areincredibly, not great people and
my mandate legitimately is now.
I just want to work with kindpeople who I'm friends with
because there are so manytalented, kind, awesome people.

(01:51:14):
Why would you choose to workwith people who don't make you
feel great?

Bro, it's so wack yeah.

But so easy to make that choice.

Yeah sure.

You might say no to some things that turn out to
be this or that, but honestly,whenever you listen to that
track, you're going to feel thathurt or that pain or whatever
you went through to get thatthing out there.
It's just not worth it.

It's not.

So we've talked about all like your life,
starting from the beginning tillnow what, what comes next for
your artist project?

Well, I am working on an album right now, finishing
it up.
I want to.
I want it to start gettingmixed and mastered in like a
month or so, Actually yeah, inlike a month or so.
Yeah, so I'm working on analbum.

(01:52:12):
I have like a couple of songscoming out before then.
I just have to figure out whichones I want them to be.
I'm really excited about it.
I think it's just going to be ame album.
I think it's going to just beeverything that I want it to be.

As you know what do you want it to be.

I want it to just be super eclectic and
experimental and I want it to benew sounding and I just want it
to be very me like.
I want it to sound veryethereal and have like some hard
shit in there.
I want to be fun.

(01:52:58):
I want like a few ass shakingsongs.
Who doesn't?

love that.

Yeah.

What are you going to say?
As you know, I forgot.
Sorry about that.

No, it's okay, but yeah, I don't I don't know yet
if I want to have any featureson it.
Because it's just so me and Ifeel like a lot of people know
me, for I don't want to be afeature artist, I don't want to

(01:53:38):
be really an extension of anyoneelse, because I'm just so.
I'm just not that like I wantto be known for being an
individual artist and, yeah, Idefinitely want people to be a

(01:53:59):
part of it, but I just want itto be what I want it to be, if
that makes sense, like I want itto be really weird, yeah, and I
want to love it.

I think always, at the end of the day, you could
just like re-release the trackwith a feature.

Absolutely.

But you have like this body of work that is
just unapologetically you.

Thank you.
Yeah, I'm also planning on.
Literally I like, I'm like cool, I have to finish this album,
but I also already have like anEP for following the album like
halfway done.
I love that.
And it's just going to beacoustic?
Yeah, because I don't know, Ilove like the heavy production
shit.
But Writing has always beenreally close to my heart and I

(01:54:45):
just want the lyrics and thevocals to really speak for
themselves and I want to showpeople that I don't necessarily
need to be a feature artist orproduction artist, I just want
to be an artist.
Yeah, so I'll put out a littlecry album, little cry acoustic

(01:55:07):
or EP, rather Probably in thefall, yeah.

Yeah, that's going to show a cool side of you
.
I can't wait.

Oh yeah, I like already have a lot of the songs
done.
It could be done honestly nowif I wanted it to be Some of
what?
Like it's all pretty much likevoicemail motion, but I mean
it'll do what it what it does.
I mean right now I'm like anindependent artist and, like I

(01:55:38):
said, like the most importantthing To me is just to feel good
about the work that I put out.
I've had some experiences withlabels wanting me to sign and
become something that I'm not.
I will never be a sell outrefuse.
I would rather have 10 monthlylisteners and be broke and find

(01:56:04):
my money other ways than to be asell out artist.
Yeah, if I ever do that,someone slap me you heard that.
Yeah, literally.

But I don't think that you could be.
I just from the little I knowyou, which now I feel like I
know you so much more deeply.
I can tell that that's just notin the fabric of who you are.

Yeah.

You have too much of an authentic story to
put into a box.

Thanks.
There have been moments whenI've been like, shit, I need a
bag, let me just sell out reallyquick.
But it's like once you sell out, you can never go back.

But also there's a bag waiting for the person
who sticks to their vision.

Right and also like I don't know.
I'm just in a place where I'mlike whatever dude, like I'm not
going anywhere, like I'm notlike honestly dude if I'm
scraping by and like living onsomeone's couch like I'm sorry,
but I'm still just like as longas I can get by, I just don't

(01:57:10):
want to, I'm just not interestedin like making some song that's
going to eat me alive, you know.

Yeah, you'll play it at every single tour
date and every single time thatyou play it, you will just lose
it.

And it's like the whole point of me being in this
career in the first place wasliterally just doing what I want
, like why would I suddenly dowhat I don't want?
Or like also another point ofme being in this career and like
being an artist in general islike to save my life.
You know what I mean.

(01:57:46):
Yeah.
So why would I do that?

Yeah.

How can you?

channel a real raw emotion.
Right what puts you into this.

Right.

If you know that it's being disingenuous.

Right, it's like it's saved my life once, like,
what would I do?
Like it almost seems like adisservice to like the
opportunity that I've had thusfar to like do some wax cell out
shit, you know.
Yeah.
Also, I just feel like there'slike this really sad message
being sent to like the youth whoare like going to shape the

(01:58:21):
world, you know, after we'regone, and like, honestly, it
just sucks because like there'sthis weird wave of like artists
being manufactured right nowthat you know we're sending
their own message to the youthand like they're lying and being

(01:58:45):
like I made this song becauseof X, y and Z and it's like
bitch, no offense, no offense,but like no, you didn't.
Like you literally were handeda career because of the internet
and like you're not a realartist, so stop acting.
Like it Like it's really sad tosee like kids looking up to

(01:59:07):
that.
Yeah.
Yeah, because it's like art canreally save lives.
But that type of manufacturedshit where it's like, where it's
like a career is handed andmanufactured, bro, those people
are not happy, I know them.
They're not happy.
But like the people that arehappier, the ones that are like

(01:59:32):
doing what they want and likecreating real art, because then
it's like, do you know thesatisfaction that it can give
you when you create somethingthat you genuinely love and
someone can you know it canresonate with someone?
It's just crazy.
It just goes so much longer, itjust goes like further.
It's just better.
It's like we need more of that.

(01:59:55):
And it's really sad too thatlike society is absorbing all
the manufactured shit and likekind of giving it more power
right now, like when there's somuch good real art out there.
Yeah, yeah.

I really hope that people listening and
watching understand that.

Yeah.

People that are off on this journey, maybe right
at the beginning, and they'refaced with this, like they're
not getting instant feedback,with tons of listens or views or
this or that, and there's thisfork in the road where they can
decide to be disingenuous towhat they really feel connected

(02:00:44):
to yeah.

And bro, it's like people in the industry can tell,
like, if you're being like famehungry or money hungry or
whatever, and you're just like,oh, like, I'm gonna make this
pop song like or whatever,versus like I'm gonna make
something that I like, andbecause it's something I like, I

(02:01:08):
know that at least one personwill also like it.
Yeah, you know.

I don't know.
I think you're spot on withthat.
Okay, so I have to know, andI'm sure that I'm not the only
one that wants to know this.
But, dude, your skin alwayslooks like so ridiculously good
and, as someone who wishes hisskin looked better, like I
really take care of it.

Your skin looks so good.
You're like glowing oh thankyou, it's giving.

I feel like I could do better, but I try.
But I have to ask since yourskin looks so damn good always,
how can the rest of us, justmere mortals, figure this out?

Mere mortals.
I think the most importantthing, honestly, is like
obviously people hear it timeand time again, but it's like
hydration, but not only justdrinking a lot of water, because
, like I know, I'm like I needto drink more water, but even
just like hydrating your skinfrom the outside is really
important, but with like goodingredients, like clean

(02:02:16):
ingredients, without a bunch ofadditives, is really important.
Getting enough sleep, treatingyourself with like love and like
your skin, because it's thebiggest organ on your body, like
biggest organ that is a part ofyour body, it's the only organ

(02:02:37):
arguably on your body.
But yeah, I mean, I think alsolike in terms of like using
makeup and stuff, skin is likethe most important because I
mean, as long as you have a goodbase, everything else is just
kind of like you know extra.

(02:02:59):
But I mean, no matter what typeof skin you have, there's
always ways to like accentuateand like bring like the best out
in what you're working with andlike ways to make you look and

(02:03:19):
feel your best.
Yeah, but yeah, I would just saygood, clean ingredients, no
toxic stuff, no show withadditives.
Yeah, sleeping enough and liketaking time for yourself yeah,

(02:03:39):
it's the most important.
Yeah, I also love icing my face.

Icing.
Yeah, tell me about this.

I have these like cooling globes that I like put
on my face like go upward, likebrings any like inflammation
down.

That's cool.

Yeah, that's like my favorite thing to do.

Okay, I'm gonna have to figure out about that.

I'll send you a link, yeah, I gotta understand
that.

So obviously you're very into makeup.
I mean, that's like part of thefabric of who you are We've
talked about, and like justbeing a person who I can tell is
not gonna be satisfied in onecategory.
I mean you want to keep oncreating different things.

Oh yeah, I wanna be in like, I wanna like explore,
like multimedia art as well.

That would be really cool.
Do you have any interest ingetting into the world of either
skincare or makeup or somethinglike that?

Yeah, I mean, as I've gotten older, I definitely
like love skincare like a littlebit more, because I've just I
don't know, I just love like theritual of it and yeah, I love

(02:04:54):
skincare.
I also like wanna get involvedin film and TV stuff.

I could totally see that.

Anyway, yeah.

You're gonna have so many buckets.

Yeah, there's a lot of things going on.

Yeah, and I think, as one of the pedestals
or the one of the crafts thatyou're building either, music
modeling, whatever it may be,raises, I think that all of the
other tides that you wannaexplore will also have a place,

(02:05:35):
like you always see like musicartists who get large and then
they wanna go into acting orthey wanna go into brand
development.

And it just kind of builds everything.

Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that's gonna
happen.

Yeah, I mean, I think it'll just be fun and it's
like, like I said, like before,like life is so short Like I
wanna do all of it.

I love that.

Yeah.

I can't wait to see that.
Thanks, so I just superthrilled that you came on this
podcast.

Thank you so much for talking with me.
Me too.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for opening up, Thanksfor having me.
Hello, can I speak English?

Yeah, thanks for opening up about so many deep
things.
I think everybody has learnedso much more about you and what
goes into the fabric of yourlife, your creativity, your art.
I feel like knowing all of thisstuff just makes everything
that you do just so much morebeautiful, cause you can see all

(02:06:33):
of the love and care anddifficult things that you've
gone through that have createdthis world of yours, thank you,
thanks for having me.
All right.
So now that you've listened tothis episode, I know at times

(02:06:55):
this was very beautiful and verydark and challenging and
optimistic.
I mean, it had everything in itand I'm so thankful that Sick
Brain opened up and allowed thatconversation to happen.
There's so many beautifultopics that were in there and,

(02:07:16):
through the struggles that she'sdealt with, somehow she has
managed to channel that into art.
That's very authentic.
I mean check socials andwherever.
I mean.
She's just like pouring out artall the time.
It's very unique and authenticand I hope that you enjoyed

(02:07:37):
listening to this podcast.
A couple of the key takeawaysamong so many but I'll highlight
the few that I just thoughtwere very outstanding was her
outlier undoubtedly is the timealone at home.
Whenever she wouldn't leave thehouse.
She was using her time tolisten to music all the time and

(02:08:01):
do makeup.
She became incredibly good atdoing makeup of all styles and
through our conversation you cantell that that translated into
professional jobs and othercities.
It led her to New York, it ledher to LA and having put in her
10,000 hours at such a young agejust allowed her to become so

(02:08:24):
good, so young and at a timewhen she just wanted to get out.
She just wanted to go do thingsthat weren't in North Carolina,
and this actually allowed her avehicle to do that.
So really the takeaway for meis that the younger you can put
in the hours into a craft, thebetter.

(02:08:46):
But if you're listening to thisright now and you're in your
30s, your 40s, your 50s,wherever you're at, it's really
just about blocking out time tobe able to do a thing that
you're passionate about andthrough that time you'll get
better and better and better ata craft and then just utilize it
as soon as you can.

(02:09:07):
I think as soon as Carolinecould get out, she did and she
went and did makeup and it gother out of North Carolina.
The next huge point about sickbrain success is the tragic
death of her friend.
Tristan was kind of like a rockfor her here in LA and through

(02:09:32):
the tragic loss of him Carolinehad like an authentic message of
anger and sadness but beautyand love for somebody who'd
passed on.
That she was able to put downon paper and lyrics and in music
she was able to scream and lether feelings out and through

(02:09:53):
that she made like purelyauthentic music and you hear
through this podcast that shejust wants to be true to herself
and her art because that'swhere it started and it's.
I think it's really cool tohear from somebody who is just
so purely indie.
She knows exactly what shewants and she doesn't want a

(02:10:15):
major label or anything to helpher out and I mentioned in this
podcast that's not the only wayto go about music, but I love
that.
It's authentically her andthat's what I'd like to
highlight from this episode isthat she came from a very
authentic space.
I keep on saying that, but Iknow so many artists, so many
artists, and a lot of them wishthat they could just be purely

(02:10:37):
authentic, and Carolina is asplitting image of that.
Hold yourself accountable forwhat you need to do in life to
make you feel happy andfulfilled.
I thought that that was areally cool line that she said
and that it really goes with thelast point.
It's just like being asauthentic as possible because

(02:10:59):
it's going to attract people toyou that resonate with that
authenticity Somebody likeSkrillex, of course.
I mean he hit her up and wantedto have her in the studio only
months after she started makingmusic because you could tell
that she's so authentically herthat it brought him to her.
And so if there's anything totake away from this episode is

(02:11:22):
just figure out who you are andit's be as authentic to that as
you can be.
That might be the indie mindset, like Sick Brain has, or that
might be somebody who wants tobe just very straight ahead pop.
You want to sell as manyrecords as possible.
You want to play a stadium.
You want to have a song on theradio.
Just be very authentic to thatvision and that's going to take

(02:11:46):
you as far as possible.
Thanks for listening to theGrounds for Success podcast.
I want to thank all of thepeople who work on this podcast
and help me out.
My team is everything to me,and without them I couldn't
bring these to you every singleweek.
I couldn't post on social media, you know, with all the clips

(02:12:06):
that we have, and so I thank youguys so much.
I want to also thank all of myclients on the mixing and
mastering side, because withoutyou, I could not have Grounds
for Success.
So thank you so much.
If you're enjoying the Groundsfor Success podcast, please
follow, like and subscribe onwhichever platform you're
listening or watching on.
It helps us out a ton and Iwant to keep getting this

(02:12:28):
content to you, in whichever wayyou listen or watch.

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