Yasmine Yousaf: Krewella's Story, Failing Forward, and Personal Growth

Episode Transcript
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Austin Seltzer (00:01):
Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast.
I'm your host, austin Siltzer.
Together we'll unveil the keysto success in the music industry
.
Join me as I explore my guest'slife stories and experiences to
uncover practical insights tohelp you align with your goals
more effectively.
Hey coffee drinkers, welcome tothe Grounds for Success podcast

(00:31):
.
Please like, follow andsubscribe so we can update you
with what's going on in ourworld.
Today.
On the podcast I have Yazziefrom the amazing electronic
group Cruella.
If you guys have been in theelectronic world for a while,
cruella was one of the firstgroups to really really pop off
in the electronic space thatalso branched into the pop world

(00:56):
.
I mean they had a song on theradio so they really really
touched a lot of lives And theyhave been intertwined in my life
for quite a while and we talkabout it on this podcast.
So I'm excited for you tolisten to that.
On this episode we're obviouslygoing to talk about Cruella.
We're going to talk aboutCruella from the very inception
till now, where they're on ahiatus, but we'll discuss kind

(01:18):
of all the intricacies of theirstory and how they got to where
they are.
We will also talk about how,all along the way, they failed
forward.
What I mean by that is if theyhad an idea, they didn't just
overanalyze and think you know,how can we continuously one up
ourself before putting out anidea?

(01:40):
they just did it, and I thinkthat's so important.
We will also talk about how,whenever the pandemic happened,
yazzy was finally able to slowdown.
She had been going, going,going going her entire you know
adult life with Cruella.
She finally had a moment totake a second and chill and

(02:02):
really work on her mental health, her health overall, and I
think that that was a reallybeautiful topic that we talked
about.
We will also talk about this.
This idea that I feel like mostcreatives talk about is should I
continue to keep my head downand work or, every now and then,
should I lift my head up andsmell the roses?

(02:24):
It's a really interesting topicbecause we really dive in on
why it's tough to look up andsmell the roses.
I had a revelation whiletalking to Yazzy that maybe this
podcast is just me talking toothers, so I can learn about
myself through the lens of, youknow, their feedback.

(02:47):
In our talk There's a prettymeta moment there.
We talk about this reallyinteresting story that brings
Jake Udell from third brain,into co-managing Cruella and how
that happened, and it involvesnone other than Skrillex, and so
I, if you're watching this, i'mwearing my little Skrillex

(03:08):
shirt And also it landed in arecord deal Pretty, pretty
interesting.
And finally, i finally get totalk some not all, but a lot of
my story as a, as someonestarting out as a producer that
wanted to be an artist, but youknow, mostly into production,

(03:29):
moving into mixing and some ofthe real, real struggles that I
faced And I'm sure I'm going toface more, but some real big
struggles that I faced and how Iovercame them and how I'm
sitting in this chair todaytalking to these really cool
guests.
So let's get caffeinated.

Yasmine Yousaf (03:47):
Cheers, cheers.
I haven't had a sip yet.
I was waiting for you.
What camera am I looking at?

All of them.

This is an ad placement.

All of the guests in the studio.

Oh, that's good.

Is it?

That's really good.
That's amazing.

Is it actually?

It is.
It's really good.
See, this is the kind of coffeethat I probably wouldn't put
cream in.
This is like I need it in itspure state.
It's really good.

I'm glad It's going to have a lot of caffeine.

So the problem with this is then I'll just
start shaking and chatting likecrazy person.

Let's go.

So if I look insane, it's the coffee, it's
not me I love that.

So Yazzie told me that she wanted to drink tea
because I think that we thoughtit was going to be after two,
but I didn't realize that shecan have caffeine before two.

I'm so specific.

But then I thought it was going to be tea.
but you're like, if you'rehaving coffee, i'm going to have
coffee.
I was like hell yeah.

And then Grounds for success.
I can't not have coffee withyou.

True.
I agree.
You also?

told me you would funnel it down my throat
if I didn't know That sounds soviolent.
You guys That did happen.

So she was like I take a splash of cream, but
then I said I'd take mine black,and then you're like I'll go
black.
And so here we are, just blackcoffee pour over.

But It's good though.
Yeah, if you don't finish it,we'll bust out a funnel and I
already feel like going straightto my heart, straight to my
heart.

I'm doing it out of love, i promise.

I know you are.
I know you are.
You just want me to get chattybecause we're on a podcast.
Here we go.

So I'm curious what does a normal day in
Yazzie's world look like?

Oh well, it kind of has been different this year
because Johan and I are takinga bit of a sabbatical not year,
but chunk of time And so Ihaven't been in the studio.
I've been doing something elsethat I'm not going to talk about
on this podcast, because Ihaven't talked about it at all.

(05:56):
You probably know what it is,but I just don't want to talk
about it in a public way yetbecause it feels very.
It's incubating still.
I'm creating it still.

I feel like we talked about it, but I'm just
going to play dumb.

We'll just mention it later, when we're not
on the record.
I love that, but I've beendoing something else every day
and it only involves me.
It doesn't involve anotherperson, it doesn't involve Johan
, it doesn't involve a team.
It is very insular And I feellike in that process, my life

(06:29):
looks completely different rightnow because I'm revolving
completely around myself.
So I love that I do havesomewhat of a routine in the
morning and night, but it's veryloose.
I think I'm all about justwaking up when my body wants to
wake up.
Moving my body first thing,like sweating, moving, walking,

(06:52):
eating a really, really slowbreakfast.
I love slow meals where I'm notrushing.
I hate that.
I hate rushing while eating.
It's probably like top fiveworst things for me for my
mental health.
Don't want to rush while I eatAnd then just spending the rest
of the day creating And then Ihope to spend time with loved
ones sprinkled in there.

(07:13):
So it's very loose.
It's very loose right now.
Nothing too specific.

I love that I'm the first person to come on here
and talk about moving slow, andI actually really, really
appreciate that.

Oh, i spent my whole ass adult life moving so
quick that I remember 5% of it.
It's really kind of sad for meat this point where I've spent
so much of my life truly rushinglike rushing from one thing to
the next And I think it did.
Johanna and I were both in thesame boat.
I know I can speak for her whenI say this, but we spent so

(07:45):
much time moving quickly andrushing that it was such a
detriment on every facet of ourlives physical health, mental
health, the relationships thatwe love.
So moving slow has been sohealing for both of us.
It's been healing for ourrelationship with each other,
with our relationship withourselves, our relationship to
creativity.
It's just.

(08:06):
I recommend moving slow, evenjust a sprinkle of it in your
day.
Just try it out.

I will.

I will, i know you're doing the most, you're
juggling a lot, so it's hard,it's hard.

Yeah, I'm like you in the mid, you know, like
15, 16, 17, or somewhere aroundthere, probably a little bit
earlier.
I'm just not at that scale byany means, but I am just putting
a little more on my plate thanI should.
But what I want to make a pointis to move slow in the morning.

Big time.

I wake up early, i always do.

Beautiful.

I'll go through times where I'll do a meditation
in the morning and then I'lljournal and I'll read a book and
then I'll go about the day.
But whenever my life getsstressful or I have a lot on my
plate, boom 7.30,.
I'm like let's run down to thestudio, Let's do some notes.
Come on, man, There's a wholeday to do that.

I know And it's a big issue for me, because we
have the best excuse in theworld Our work is creative.
So you always have this thingin the back of your head where
you're like well, i'm my ownboss, well, i have the dream job
.
You come up with all thesedifferent ways to make yourself
think, like I should be gettingstraight to work, like I love my
job, i love my life.
Why wouldn't I spend all mytime doing those things?

(09:24):
But at the end of the day, it'sstill work.
You know, it's still becomesomething that we're trying to
be compensated for.
We're not just doing this as ahobby, like we have to put food
on the table, we have to paybills, like this is not just I
mean, that's the dream, thoughis like to create as a hobby,
but we're not there right now.
But putting time aside to justbe a human being for like even

(09:49):
just 30 minutes before you jumpinto the work, even if it's
something you love to me, ithink, is one of the greatest
things I've changed about mylife.

I love that.
I recommend it.
How did you figure out that youneeded to slow down?

Um, it had been happening slowly already when
Johanna and I were working onour last, last record zero that
came out in 2020.
Right before the pandemic, um,we had already taken 2019,.
well, 2015, wrong year 2019 tospend most of our time creating

(10:24):
that album and slow down ontouring, which was the first
time in our entire career we haddone that.
We had usually juggled Like.
I'll go back I.
my calendar app on my computerhas everything from the last
decade.
No way.
I'll sometimes go back and lookat what my life looked like And
it would be like I kid you, notplay shows like Thursday, friday

(10:45):
, saturday, sometimes Sunday,fly home on the first slide out
Monday morning and go straightto the studio and spend Monday,
tuesday, wednesday, thursdaySometimes, if we didn't have a
show in the studio every singleday, but then, after the studio,
find time to see my dad findtime to spend time with, like if
I was dating someone spend timewith them.
No time to my, literally not notime to myself.

(11:05):
Johan was the same exact wayand then just on repeat for
years, to the point that in 2019, when we did slow down touring
just to focus on creating thebest album we could make,
because we just wanted to trysomething different, it was one
of those moments where werealized like, oh wait,
something wasn't working and wewere bypassing that and we were

(11:26):
just on autopilot for so much ofour life, including like
moments that really mattered,like my dad marrying my stepmom,
or like us getting like a bigchart placement, like through
all these, like big, monumentalmoments.
I barely remember them and it'sreally sad for me and I just

(11:46):
don't want to live life likethat anymore.
Johan and I had a lot of hardconversations where we would
have moments where one of us wasresisting and the other one was
trying to just show the way, orvice versa, because we would
both go through kind ofdifferent phases and eventually
we kind of locked into the sameplace where we were just like we
just want to be healthier, wejust want to be happier.

(12:08):
Something is wrong, something isaffecting our relationship.
Mine and her relationship Gotto the point where we were
fighting a lot, we weredisagreeing a lot, we weren't
enjoying our time in the studiotogether a lot, which is a huge
indicator that something iswrong, because making music with
Johan is magic.
It's like one of my favoritethings to do in the universe,
and when there's something wrongwith that, there's something

(12:28):
wrong.
And so when we slowed down in2019, we were really excited to
pick back up in 2020.
We were like, okay, we're goingto release the album in January
, then we have this really bigtour in the spring, and then
festival season all summer andwe're going to go hard, and then
in the fall and winter, we'regoing to take off again.
And then the pandemic hit and itforced us to fully back off the

(12:52):
road.
But Johan was going through alot of health issues around that
time and she needed to pullback.
When the pandemic hit, she waslike you know what The universe
is telling me?
that I need to pull backcompletely and figure out what's
going on in my body.
And so she tapped out entirelyand I was like I love that for
you.
Please go take care of yourself.

(13:14):
And in that time my partnerDevin and I we built a home
studio and we started workingheavily on our next projects.
I started doing some productionand songwriting stuff for the
next Cruella album.
I started doing some side stufffor myself and I went hard.
During the pandemic I wasstreaming a lot.
I was just going in because Iwas like, okay, i have all this

(13:34):
time Like, just let me feel it,everyone's doing stuff, like I
see everybody streaming andeverybody's creating music in
this time.
So I felt this pressure to justkeep the foot on the gas.
And so, johan, eventually shedid so much healing in that time
.
I'm really proud of her.
We eventually got back in thestudio together.
We made our last album, theBody Never Lies, and during that

(13:59):
process I was simultaneouslythe most fulfilled and the most
unhappy I'd ever been in myentire life.
It was really confusing.
It was a lot of dissonance forme.
I felt like I was so proud ofmyself and so excited about what
we were making, but at the sametime, i was overworking myself
and I was honestly.
There was a big chunk of mylife that I was like what is

(14:21):
anxiety when you talk about it?
I have no idea what that is.
And then all of a sudden, inlike 2021, towards the end, i
started having like thesedebilitating symptoms.
I had to go to the ER because Ithought I was having a fucking
heart attack.

By the way, can I swear?
Of course you can.

Amazing, i'm gonna have to go to the ER to
center myself.

Fuck, yeah, let's go.

And I was having all these irregularities on my
ECGs and EKGs and the doctor didevery test under the sun and
couldn't tell me what was wrongAnd I'm like, oh, it's my mental
health Got it, because usuallywhen there's nothing wrong with
our bodies, it is in our headand we have to figure out how to
calm Which is part of our bodyExactly?

It's all connected.
It's all connected.

They're not separate So right.
So when we went on the tour forThe Body Never Lies in wow,
time is crazy And we were ontour in 2022.
It was kind of weird.
It was like we did Ultra andthen we did this two month tour
And during that tour I felt likeI was degrading so quickly And

(15:18):
Johanna and I had been amazing.
But we started fighting a lotagain And again.
Like I said, that was such anindicator for me When I can't
control my nervous system aroundthe person that I should feel
the safest around.
There's something wrong thereAnd I called my manager.
I talked to Fiona and Johannatowards the end of that tour And

(15:39):
I'm like guys, i need space.
Like I know we have a lot ofstuff coming up.
We had some shows to finish outthe year.
We were playing New Year's inIndonesia And then we were
playing our first shows ever inPakistan, which was like such a
huge deal for us in.
January.
But then I was like, okay, soonce 2023 hits, like once we
come home from Pakistan, i justneed space.

(15:59):
I need time.
I don't need to see any showoffers, i don't need to hear
anything about what's coming upmusic-wise, i don't need any
pressure put on me, i will letyou know when I can tap back in.
And it's been so good for me.
I feel like I'm like I feelgood in my body again for the
first time in years.

I love that so much.
I think I've said that a coupleof times now, that I love that
so much, but damn.
Thank you That that takes somuch bravery, i feel like
because you have fans that Iknow want to see you guys and
you have these creative urgesthat you feel like you have to
get out of you and you havefamily that's probably maybe not

(16:40):
.

Well, my parents are super fucking confused, for
sure.
Yeah, they're both like but howare you going to make money?
And I'm like well, we'll figureit out, we're going to let it
happen, we're going to let theuniversity charge here.

Yeah, that takes a lot of bravery and just
knowing that everything willhappen when it's supposed to
happen And I know that I'm surethat's going to be a theme
throughout our our podcast,because I'm I just get the sense
that you are very spiritual andyou just let things come when

(17:16):
they're supposed to, And Ihaven't always, but now I feel
like I am like anything you'resensing is newer, like it might
have always existed in me, butanything that feels at peace
with me right now is somethingthat I'm very recently grasping.
Amazing.
Then we're going to work fromstart to there.

Amazing.

And see the progression, because, yeah, i
actually always have got thatsense from you.

I'm so glad.
I mean, i think it exists inall of us.
We just have to be able to tapinto it.
But I do like the feeling ofbeing able to bring peace.
So like, even if I am in likepanic mode, i love appearing as
though everything is all right,not because, like, of course,

(18:03):
like there's a people pleasertendency happening there, but
also because I like people tofeel safe and comfortable around
me.
It's like one of my goals inlife is to have people feel good
around me, because I likeoffering a safe space for people
, but I want to be authentic inthat I don't want it to be a
mask.
So I'm trying to figure out howto like bridge the gap between
those two.

That is really difficult It is.

It is It's hard work.

Yeah, have you heard of Psy, our mutual friend,
one of my best friends andactually will be part of the
story?

Yes.

He told me about this book called Not Nice.

Oh, I've never heard of it.

It's great, i'm reading it and kind of the whole
point of it is that we all, aspeople, should just stop being
nice.
And what nice is is this facadethat we just say or do things
to make somebody feel a certainway, but not like actually mean

(19:01):
it.

Yes.

Being kind is what we should all strive for.

Like the difference between those two.
Nice is a facade So heavy.

Kind is like genuine.
Yes, it's really tough,especially here, like where
there are people you like for meat least, people I want to work
with people, i want to impresspeople.
You know that.
Well, that's really it.
I mean, those are kind of thethings like you just want people
to feel a certain way about you.
Sure, and when you say thatyou're kind, that resonates way

(19:31):
more deeply than whatever BS yousay to make a certain situation
feel a certain way.
Yeah, and I think that I'mgenuinely a kind person.

You are.
I can contest to that.

Thank you, but I think every now and then you
feel like you have to saycertain things to make somebody
feel great about something 100%.
And just being genuine and realis also appreciated and it
doesn't make you feel stressedor like I think that stress

(20:06):
comes out of.

that is like trying to be a certain way
Because it's inauthentic, yes,and when we realize that our
actions aren't meeting up withlike our soul, like what we
would actually want forourselves, like that's where so
much cognitive dissonancehappens and that's where so much
anxiety is bred.
In my opinion, like, for me, alot of where my panic comes from

(20:29):
in life is when I have twopieces of myself pulling away
from each other.
And I think when you can marrylike your I hate talking in
these terms because I know weall think differently about what
they mean but our real self andour ideal self, and we can kind
of bridge the gap and marrywhere they are in the middle, i
think that's where we find themost peace, because our ideal

(20:51):
self is a fantasy Like I'm nevergoing to be.
I will spend the rest of mylife trying out, till the day I
die.
I will try to become thatperson, but I'm never going to
have 100% of that.
There's always going to be thereal me that's just struggling
against my own stories, my owntraumas, my own baggage.
But like bridging the gap andcreating more authenticity,

(21:12):
there is, i think, where I'mgoing to find the most peace.
Maybe that's not for everybody,but like that's how I see it
And I also think I mean we'retalking about success here is
like back to the nice kind thing.
I think one of the things that'salways sat with me is that
there's plenty of people thatdon't like the music that my
sister and I make.

(21:32):
There's probably more peoplewho don't like it than do like
it.
But the thing that bothers memore than anything is not that.
If it's if someone walks awayfrom me with a bad experience,
my biggest thing that I want formyself is I want everybody who
comes into contact with me tofeel like I didn't judge them,

(21:53):
that I was kind to them and thatI treated them with respect.
That's truly like I'm like.
If someone walks away beinglike, yeah, they're good people,
i don't care if you like mymusic, i don't care.
Like that's lower to me.
If you think that, like that Itreated with your, with respect
and you had a good experiencewith me, that's way more
important to me.
That's beautiful.

(22:14):
No thank you for saying that.

Wow, you just summarized who I think you are,
and I think that that is why Ifelt like you are the spiritual
person who let things flow intotheir life.
It's just the way that youcarry yourself, the way that you

(22:37):
make somebody feel.

Thank you, it's the goal.
That's the goal.

Has that always been the goal?

I think it's how we were raised, 100%.
I remember one of the veryfirst things that my dad said,
because he was he's my numberone in my life.
He's like the most importantperson in my life, definitely a
daddy's girl And he always mademe feel growing up that, I mean

(23:04):
really, gender had nothing to dowith anything.
He would, he would push me todo everything and anything that
he thought I was good at.
If it was art, it was art.
If it was math, it was math.
It was building stuff,engineering something.
It was that.
He was truly such a bigcheerleader for me, And so what
he thinks about me is likenumber one on the totem pole in

(23:26):
life.
I wish, like I wish, what Ithought about myself was a
little higher.
But to be honest, it's not.
It's my dad and he knows it too.
But I remember back in 2012, wewere playing one of our first
festivals.
It was spring awakening inChicago.
That's where I'm from And itwas the first show my dad ever

(23:47):
came to And in the beginning ofCruella he was very concerned.
I mean, i was going to go tocollege and get a great, I was
going to be a fucking engineerand I was going to go do
something else in my life.
I wanted to be an electrical ormechanical engineer And I wanted
to major in engineering andminor in some sort of fine arts,
to marry both sides of my brainCause I feel like I'm very

(24:10):
split And he had these bigdreams for me because I fed that
, you know I told him that'swhat I wanted to, and so when I
told him that I was going to betaking a gap year to do Cruella
with Johan and Chris the gapyear that turned into like gap
life He was so deeply concerned.
He was not happy about it, butout of like, not because he

(24:32):
didn't believe in me and believein Johan and I, but it was just
such a hard thing for he's animmigrant, he's from Pakistan,
he can't imagine school notleading to a successful life And
like that's the American dream,right?
Like that's what we're sold.
And so when he finally startedto see that we could support
ourselves in what we were doingwhich is also a pipe dream, and

(24:53):
we got really lucky Luck is apart of it, for sure, and I
remember him being at springawakening and people in the
front, like he was in the frontand he was like jumping up and
down, having the best time And Iremember him after that show
coming backstage and being likeyou want all these people in the
crowd ask me who I was, and I'mlike I'm their dad.

(25:14):
And people telling me like welove your daughters, like we
love their music.
And he was like I've never beenso proud, like they all love,
like they think you're great.
And it wasn't about the music,it was more about the fact that
we had been doing meet andgreets like crazy.
We answered every Facebookmessage, every single one.

(25:35):
I was back when Facebook was athing I was even using, my God.
We were so in tune with thepeople that were listening to
our music.
They felt like they knew us andwe felt like we knew them And
like that's why they had thatinteraction with our dad.
And our dad was like peoplereally like you and love you.
Like I'm so proud.
That really solidifiedsomething in me where I'm like I

(25:56):
want to be that person becauselike that's who my dad raised me
to be, that's who my parentsraised me to be.

There is no doubt that that's why you guys
had so much early success.

Like you huge part of it.

I do remember just fans like loving Cruella.
It wasn't like a, it wasn'tjust I love this music, but like
I love them, it's reallyemotional.

It's like really , it's really sweet to think
about all of that It is.

I'd like to go back to childhood, which you've
already been touching on, but Iwant to figure out you know who
your parents are and how youguys were brought up.
I want to know the fabric ofYassi, like how is she you?

Well, anything I talk about, I hope that any
everyone listening or watchingknows that when I speak about
these things, i'm speaking aboutmy experience.
But my experience is sointertwined with Jahan.
It's like we've been attachedat the hip, not even in like
great ways, but in just likefactual It is what it is kinds
of ways since I was born, andwhen I speak about these things

(27:04):
I know she had a differentexperience in our household
because, siblings, you can liveunder the same roof and have a
completely different reality.
But our parents, like the waythey were, affected us, i think,
somewhat similarly.
Our father is an immigrant fromPakistan.
Our mom is a first generationAmerican woman, but her parents

(27:26):
fled World War II and came herefrom Lithuania, in Germany, and
so we definitely grew up in avery specific way.
We grew up pretty frugal, wegrew up with this like no crumbs
left on the plate mentality,but like I mean that as an
analogy for everything likethere was no waste, there was no
complaining, like if somethingwas wrong, you figure it out,

(27:48):
you don't complain, you don'tcry, you figure it out.
Like I love my parents.
I really like when I say this,i really, truly think that they
were doing their best, but itled to a household where we
didn't really express ourfeelings or emotions at all.
There was really no space forit.
But when there was emotion, itusually centered around music.

(28:12):
My parents were not musiciansbut they were music lovers.
They met in LA in the 80sbefore they moved to Houston
where they had Johanna and I,and then Chicago where we grew
up Like a lot of their firstdates were concerts and like
they had some of their besttimes going to shows and it
really you really felt that inour household.

(28:32):
My dad didn't spend money onanything but he sprung for an
incredible sound system and wehad CDs up the ass, like we had
so many CDs.
So until I was a certain age, iwasn't allowed to touch it, but
I had to like ask.
I was like, okay, so I want tolisten to this today.
So I would have to listen toCDs in their entirety.
I wasn't allowed to touch likethe fast forward or next button,

(28:54):
so I would just be listening.
I would sit in our living room,just sit and listen to albums
and their entire, and they wouldrepeat over and I would just
sit and listen.
I remember watching Talking Head.
Stop Making Sense.
I don't even remember wherethey filmed that concert, but
that video, that in the VCR ify'all remember what that is we

(29:17):
would watch that all the timeAnd it was just like magic to me
And it created some of the morejoyful moments in a household
that I do think was kind ofdevoid of emotion And in turn,
it made me feel like how I couldexpress myself was through
music.
So when I was 10, our parentsbought me an acoustic guitar for

(29:42):
my 10th birthday because I'dbeen asking for it and I really
never asked for things.
So when they got me this guitarI was like holy shit, they got
me a guitar, they got it for me,and so it was all I did.
Jahan and I, even at that age,started writing songs together
And it was so much fun for mebecause she was definitely the
older sister that I thought wasso cool.
And I wanted to be her, but shedidn't really give me the time

(30:04):
of the day because I was theannoying younger sister.
But in the moments where wewere writing songs together and
playing music together it's juststupid little songs, you know I
was like oh, this istogetherness, This is our way,
And so I think even back then itplanted that seed for me of
like this is something we dotogether.

Yeah, I wanted to tell you that, growing up in
my household, same thing withemotion.
Last year, kind of in likeFebruary or March, I did a lot
of deep diving into this where,yeah, I didn't have a lot of
love and emotion given to me youknow, in an affectionate way,

(30:43):
as my parents love the hell outof us.
They were also not in a greatrelationship Like same with my
parents.
Yeah, loving wise.
Yes, they loved each other, butthere was no romance.
No, they didn't talk anythingout.

Yes, things faster.
They streamed things out.
Yeah, yeah, in a bedroom?

Yeah, not in front of the kids.

But it was like same same, like you still hear
it.
You're a kid, you have ears,you know what's happening.

Totally.
It would be festering problemsthat they wouldn't talk out.
No communication.

Yeah, like aggressiveness, yes, yes,
jealousy, like the examples thatwe had in front of us, damn.

Yeah, yeah.
And it's so tough because theyare human and they're living
their best life and trying.
I'm sure, yes, but you neverknow what is being passed.
I'm sure you don't even thinkabout those things being passed.

You probably think They're functioning in
survival mode.
Yeah.

Yeah, How could you think about how little bitty
minute things in yourrelationship will affect your
kids?
Yeah.
But so like it's hard for me.
I'm not a super romantic person, although inside I feel that I
am.
It just doesn't come outnaturally at all.

This is the real self, ideal self thing.
Right Like your ideal self isso romantic and you have all
these fantasies of like what youthink you are, what you're
capable of, but then your realself acts like this.
That's about bridging the gap.

I have so many things that I think are a part
of me and are deep within me andthat I want to be a reality.
Yes, that just aren't, and it's.

Yeah, big same.

Yeah, i have journaled so much about this.
I've listed out the things thatI believe that I am, but that I
think others don't,specifically a partner don't
think that I am And it's sodifficult because I want to be
that person.
But it's not.
It looks easy And I'm sure forsome people it is easy.

But other things aren't easy for them.

I mean like Right, it's a trade off.

Everyone's got their shit.
Yes.

Yeah, it's very tough thing, so I completely
resonate with how your familylife was, while my parents
aren't immigrants and orimmigrant.

And sometimes it's also the generation, like
the generation number of parentshad a big like this is it's not
only an immigrant thing.
I do think it was like a babyboomers thing.
They were raised by ageneration.
that was just like coming outof such tragedy and coming out
of such like lack.
You know there's so muchscarcity there and it creates

(33:19):
like a lack of love, a lack ofessential needs, Not even like
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, butare just like just normal needs
, like basic needs for like ourbodily survival.

For sure.

Yeah, it creates a different breed of humans.
I feel like our generation.
our job has been well, not ourjob that we chose, but the job
that we have unfortunately justbeen laid with is that we either
break those patterns or wecontinue them, and we're more
conscious than our parents,because we have the internet, we
have all this new language todescribe what's happening, we

(33:53):
have therapy.
It's accepted to talk about ourmental health in a way that no
other generation has accepted.
So, yeah, it's a big part of, ifeel, like my Dharma.
my purpose is to help breakthese patterns.
for me and my sisters and myparents and my family.
It's like it's all woven in,like I have a lot of purposes,

(34:14):
but that's woven in for sure.

That sounds like you're really doing it.

I mean, your relationship with your dad is
great and you're working withyour mom, my dad has always been
good, though That's somethingthat I think is the reason why I
have like the crumb of sanity Ihave left is that my
relationship with my dad wasalways a safe place for me, even
if I didn't really like realizeit as I was younger.

(34:39):
Even looking back now I'm like,oh, i could have been anything
I wanted to be and my dad wouldhave loved me.
Just like that full acceptance.
And it is God I'm not trying tocry on the podcast, my guy, but
I will.
If I talk about my dad, i willLike he's really the thing that
held me down, like this quote Idon't know we're not going to

(34:59):
talk about that yet, or?

are we?
I mean, we can totally talkabout it.

Please tell me about this place where you are,
god circled on a map for youIt's Hafiz, which is.
He is a 14th century Persianpoet and writer, so that's an
old asco.
It's almost like a thousandyears old.
My father was raised with a lotlike in Pakistan There's so

(35:24):
much Persian and Middle Eastern,afghani and Pakistani poets
that have like embeddedthemselves in the very culture,
and so these things are normal.
It's normal to just saybeautiful proverbs, you know.
It's just normal to speak thosethings aloud, which I think is
a lost thing in this part of theworld.

(35:44):
I would love to bring that back, just discussing poetry like
that.

Yeah, that would be so cheesy and weird People
would be like wait what the?

Right, i don't live for that shit.
It's like the softy part of mewhere I'm like, oh, just give me
all the soft stuff, give me allthe inspirational stuff.
I don't care if I'm cringe, butI was going through.
I was diagnosed with anautoimmune disease when I was 15
.
And like from 15 to 19, myhealth was really all over the

(36:11):
place.
Like I almost didn't graduatehigh school because my
attendance was so low.
My grades were like amazing,but my attendance was so low
that they almost didn't let megraduate.
Damn.
I was like in and out of thedoctor and in the hospital I had
to skip a lot of school And Iwas kind of going through this
period where I had doctorstelling me really honestly,

(36:31):
fucked up things they shouldn'thave said.
They were just saying like, oh,be prepared for this to happen,
even though I'm like, but itmight like cancer and shit You
know.
Just think that you shouldn'tsay to like a 17 year old kid
who's like got the whole rest oftheir life in front of them.
But I think, with how poor Ifelt, my mental health started
to spiral and then, in turn, myphysical health never got better

(36:54):
And I was in a really lowmoment and my dad can sit like
I'll pick up the phone and justsay hi, and the way I say hi, he
will know if I'm not okay,he'll just know.
He'll be like what's wrong,tell me.
I'm like.
I just said hi, how do you know?
So I was going through a lotaround my 19th birthday and he
wrote that on the card And itkind of was this moment for me

(37:19):
that like lifted me out of a lotof doom and gloom, like a lot
of self pity, a lot of selfisolation, and every time I'm
kind of struggling I go back tothat quote because it really
brings me a lot of peace.
It's like I don't care what youbelieve in.
I'm not like a God fearingperson.
I grew up Muslim but I'm notpracticing.

(37:41):
I really don't know what Ibelieve God is, but I believe in
something.
I believe in something, becausethat's just who I am And I
really do.
When I really think about thisHuff is quote I'm just like,
okay, everything I've ever done,everything I've ever believed,
everyone I've ever loved, everyword I've ever said, every piece

(38:03):
of art I've ever created everynight I've spent crying myself
to sleep.
Every day I've spent laughingand enjoy has brought me right
here Like how could it notmatter?
How could it be all for nothing?
How could it not have weight toit?
And I'm pretty nihilistic in myworst moments.

(38:25):
I'm definitely one of thosepeople who struggles to figure
out, like the meaning behindthings.
I'll have to like likepurposely place meaning on
something when I'm reallystruggling because I'm like I
need to find anything.
I needed like dig magic out ofthis moment, to like know that I
can wake up tomorrow.

(38:46):
But when I read that quote, i'mjust like, oh, okay, i have
spent 31 years on this earth 31years and counting on this earth
and I've done so much with mylife, even if I didn't have the
career I had.
I've done so much with my life.
I've loved so many people.
I have so much love in my life.
I've experienced so manydifferent places on this earth.

(39:08):
I've met so many people.
I've had like the lowest lowsand the highest highs I can
imagine and they will get lowerand they will get higher as.
I get older, i'm like how couldit all not matter?
How could it all beinsignificant?
So, trust me, if you're outthere and you're like, well,
everything's insignificant andnothing matters, i'm like I feel

(39:29):
you.
It's one of my biggestexistential crises every single
day.
But like that quote brings meback down to earth, especially
because it's my dad who put itin my head also, but like it
really grounds me.
Well, if I'm going, thecaffeine is making me go on
tangents, my guy.
They're just going off into thewilderness.

That's beautiful .
I think that somehow we'll comeback to that, because if we get
into like universal and soultalk and this and that then you
need something to ground you,because the thoughts are too
large.

So we'll get there, because oh, you don't
want to get there with me.
I mean, maybe we do, but let'sgo.

Maybe we'll edit some out of the podcast.
The way that I think about thispodcast is really just a talk.
It's not an interview because,i'll be honest, i don't want to
do any research.

You have like questions.

You're like hmm, i do actually have some
questions, but they are organic.

Yeah, free flowing.

They're like thought provoking and not.
I did research to figure thisout And I think if I'm having a
great time having thisconversation, then other people
will have a great time listeningto it.

Big time.

And if they don't, we got closer.

Amazing Win-win.
Yeah, love it.

That's really the goal here.
So, okay, let's move a littlebit forward.

So Johan and Chris our ex-member started
Cruella when I was 15.
I wasn't in it.
It was like Chris was makingbeats and he and Johan were.
I think everyone knows theydated at this point.
It's not a secret.
They were dating Like she wouldjust be, like hanging out with
him and he realized she couldsing and she wanted to write.

(41:18):
She was writing songs alreadyand kind of just happened
organically.
I feel like a lot of peopleknow this story already, but
they were looking for a thirdmember like another singer, and
Johan was just like my sistersings.
We've been writing songstogether since.
We were like little, littleships.

Had you guys been singing?

Yeah, oh, absolutely We were.
I mean, we grew up notclassically trained in anything,
but just exploring and enjoyingand knowing that it felt good
and it felt like we were in aplace of pure joy when we were
singing and writing and playinginstruments Like it was.

(41:57):
It just felt right for us.

It's so much more important than being
classically trained, in myopinion.
I'm not talking down aboutpeople who are?
classically trained, butsomething that's actually just
like deeply from the soul thatyou figured out.

Chris and Johan were over one day at our house
that we grew up in in Chicagoand they were upstairs just like
working on some music andrecording stuff.
And Johan just knocks on mydoor And, by the way, at this
point I'm already so excited.
I'm I'm a little sister, i'mjust so excited about everything
my big sister is doing.
She knocks on my door, mybedroom, down the hall, and

(42:29):
she's like can you come in hereand just like try singing
something?
And I was like me, you chooseme.
And they had only been doingthis for a few months but I was
already just like no, this isthe coolest thing ever.
It's like you guys are going tobe huge.
And when they asked me to sing,it felt like I was stepping over
this invisible boundary of likeJohan's cool life and like my

(42:53):
life over here.
I felt like I was stepping overthis boundary and it felt so
exciting for me because it's notlike we had a bad relationship
growing up, but we weredefinitely just like big sister,
little sister, polarityDefinitely had that vibe.
And when I sang that day itjust kind of fell into a pattern
Chris would come over afterschool and we were just right

(43:15):
stuff, and I just fell intobeing a part of what they were
doing.
Johan had already come up withthe name Cruella.
Just, i think it was just likea random thing She thought
sounded cool And it became mywhole life.
I had school and then I wouldcome home.
I had a band I was into in highschool like an indie rock band,

(43:40):
kind of like a dash cab wannabeband.

I love that.
I could kind of see that.

Thank you.
Cool, i like that because Iloved it.
I was such an indie kid.
I was an Indian email kid.
I had like both parts of me,but then this other part of me
doing the stuff with Johan andChris for Cruella felt like we
were striking gold.
It really felt like that.
I had an iPod, shout out iPodsAnd I would just like load up

(44:06):
all the demos we made and Iwould just listen to them on
repeat, imagining performingthem, and I would just take
walks around my neighborhoodwith my iPod and just like lip
syncing to the songs we hadwritten.
Yesterday probably looked likea crazy little kid, just like
walking around talking tothemself.
But yeah, it just becamesomething.
I had never been so excitedabout something.

(44:27):
And in my senior year of highschool we had already had a
manager you know Nathan right,he's my ex manager now, but he's
still like family for me And wehad a manager and we felt good,
wait, we're skipping ahead.

How did you?

My space.

I mean so much great music came from my space,
though that era I just fuck with.
So good.

We definitely felt like we were part of the
MySpace scene.

It's okay if nobody remembers You totally are
.

It's fine if nobody remembers, but we felt
like we were like embedded inthat And like anytime people had
our song as their MySpaceprofile song, i was like, fuck
yeah, my space profile song.
And we were doing this like wewere so inspired by like the
faint and cut, copy andmastercraft, but then we were
also so inspired by like thenineties pop that we all were

(45:18):
like obsessed with growing up Sowe had this thing going that
was like electronica pop withlike Chris was in metal band So
he was bringing in all of thisother like other flavor, truly
in all of like the drumprogramming he was doing.
To me At that point nobody wasdoing what he was doing in

(45:39):
electronica pop music.
He was like doing such nextlevel shit And he was incredible
He's still an incredibleguitarist Like he was doing
stuff that I'm still proud tothis day.
I'm like that dude was on awave that nobody else was on.

Absolutely.
You guys were in your own light.

I feel you, i appreciate that And I just felt
like when we first I would haveto say it was I graduated high
school in 2010.
Like a couple months before Igraduated, we had this talk with
Nathan, johan, chris and I andwe were like, okay, so you're
graduating high school, johan'sin community college right now,

(46:14):
and she could take that all theway, or we could stop everything
else we're doing And, once yougraduate high school, spend the
next year fully developing thisproject, not as like a side
thing we do after school, butlike a full time gig.
And I was young andimpressionable, but I was also
obsessed with what we were doingAnd I was just like, yeah, yeah

(46:38):
, let's do it.
I'm not going to college nextyear.
Let's fucking go.
It was not even.
I didn't even have to thinkabout it.
I was like, absolutely for sureI was dating this guy and I was
not supposed to be datinganyone but I was dating this guy
in high school.
And I remember like his parentswere both professors at this
like really good college inChicago, And I remember him
being like you do realize thisis dumb, right This?

(47:01):
is like the worst idea.
You have to go to school.
This is not actually going tohappen And I remember being like
I love you less now.

We all need one of those in our life.

He was a great guy, but he just like didn't
comprehend, following a pipedream which, by the way, at that
time I don't think it felt aspossible.
It was like pre-internet,famous.
It really felt like a pipedream, but for us we were like
no, but I'm with my best friendsand we can make it happen.

(47:35):
It was silly, but it felt soreal to us.

Well, i talk about it all the time,
especially on this podcast.
We, as people in the musicworld have to be slightly
delusional.

Yes, big time.

I mean yes.
Yeah, still today, even withthe internet.
People you see with millions offollowers on Instagram but drop
a track and it gets like 10,000plays.
You have to be delusional tokeep on going forward after that
100%, and we were.

We were collectively delusional And I
think that's what made it feelsafe.
To be delusional is because wewere all in it together.
By the way, i wouldn't havedone anything I've ever done
alone.
I wouldn't have.
It's probably, if we're talkingabout anything, about something
you can take away from.
What I can tell you, it's thatIf you're a solo act, great.

(48:28):
But then get yourself a managerwho believes in you.
Surround yourself with peoplewho obsess as much as you obsess
and care about you.
See you as a human, not as acommodity.
See you as a fully functioninghuman with all these like
incredible artistic endeavors togive the world as a gift.
But if you're not a solo act,surround yourself with people

(48:52):
you are making music with, thatreally, really are on the same
page as you and can go all theway with you.
Don't make music with peoplewho don't make you feel good.
Don't make music with peoplewho aren't as invested as you
are.
If they're giving 5% and you'regiving 95, you will burn out.
Work with people who have thesame obsession and love and

(49:13):
drive as you, because that'swhat we had and I don't think I
would have been able to do anyof it alone, i truly like, i
know it in my heart And we wereunstoppable because of every
piece of that puzzle.
And even to this day, me andJahan, the way that we function
together to me is magic.

(49:34):
We know how to tap into eachother.
We know how to be like okay,that thing you do like do that,
they go in the booth and do thatthing.
Or if I'm like working onsomething, she's just like okay,
i know that, like we love thissong, let's like listen, blast
this song and get super inspired.
And we are so driven with eachother And I really think that it

(49:55):
is the reason why we're stilldoing what we're doing.
I don't know.
Yeah, sorry, i just wanted atangent but I was very beautiful
.

It should not be this, this, this or this Like
people need to hear that.
It's so true, it's that.
Yeah, you laid it out, like youlaid out the things that you
should not do, which leave thegood things.

I actually think this might be an overarching
umbrella statement for any typeof relationship in your life.
But you have to be with someonewho's willing to grow with you,
like willing to understand ifthey bring criticism to the
table, that if you want to beable to grow with this person,
you have to be able to makespace for that, and you have to
do it with compassion.

(50:38):
Both sides Like and that'ssomething Johanna and I have
done so much work on there Usedto be times where we had no
compassion and we were devoid ofthat and we were just like no,
it's my perspective, me, me, me,me, me And they were some of
the lowest points in ourrelationship.
But now I'm like all I want isfor her to step into the studio
and feel like she's free, evenif we didn't make a song, even

(51:00):
if it goes in the trash likewe've won.
So wow, that was anotherfucking caffeine man.

Caffeine's a hell of a thing.
He really really did didsomething for me today.
I love that.

How did we get here, Austin?
How did we get to him?

Wait, are we asking like an existential
question here?

No, i mean conversationally but we can go
existential.
I would love that too, butconversationally, how did I get
us here?

I don't know.
I was just in it and listening.

Same.
I was in it and talking.

I knew, I know how to get us back on track
though, amazing.
One thing that we skipped over.
What were the songs that youguys were putting out that
Nathan heard and brought himtowards you?
Or how did Nathan get into thepicture.

Nobody knows those songs.
They're deleted, they're gone,they're never going to be
released.

They were early MySpace songs.
People who are listening,though they need to hear, just
like how this came about,because this is, i think, part
of the story that really mattersfor people 100%.
Because they're trying to gofrom.
Some people are trying to gofrom making songs to making
something a reality, whichgrabbing a manager who believes

(52:11):
in you is.
So what was that?

I mean, by the way, nathan was just another kid
and he was managing this localrapper who used to go by Esprim,
but now he goes by Primm.
He's one of.
He's like family for me too,because we were all kind of in
the same scene coming up andNathan, he was just a kid, but
because he was managing thisrapper he seemed so legit but he
was figuring shit out on the goto.

(52:35):
He was our.
I mean, he's God.
I think he's like four yearsold.
He might have been like Chris'sor John's age, so he was just
another kid trying to do thething.
But he found our music onMyspace, did the proverbial,
slid into our DMs.
But back in 2007, 2007, i wantto say maybe, maybe a different

(52:57):
year, but I can't.
My timeline is a little muckyBut when we had someone telling
us like I love what you do, ibelieve in you, like let's have
a meeting, i want to manage you,that in itself was like wait,
someone wants to manage us What?
And so it was easy.
Like he loved what we weredoing, he believed in what we
were doing.
He came to every single studiosession, he pulled up every

(53:19):
single day, no matter what hewas doing and sat with us and
gave us amazing feedback andbecame someone that we really
trusted and relied on.
He had his ear to the ground,he was paying attention and he,
till this day this man is so histaste is, like chef's kiss
impeccable.

(53:39):
I love his taste.
He still has his ear to theground.
He's now directing and writingand creating movies.
Like the dude is this fuckinggenius, psychotic genius person
that I respect more than Irespect most people.
But he definitely gave us afeeling that we could do
something with what, like wealready kind of felt delusional,
but he drove the delusiondeeper for sure, and he really

(54:03):
started to reach out to people.
He was starting to makeconnections in Chicago with
promoters and just like otherpeople we could work with.
Yeah, he really, he really wenthard for us.

That's awesome.
Yeah, did okay.
So you mentioned Jake Udall.
Yes, what was there anythingsubstantial that happened like
in between Nathan hopping onboard and you meeting Jake or
Jake coming on board?

Yes, we released our first two tracks, three
tracks, sorry, before Jake cameon board and those three tracks
all hit the blogs.
Remember the blogs, guys?

Remember the blogs?
Yeah, which tracks were these?
Oh man, do you remember?

Yes, but okay, life of the Party, which was
actually featuring that rapper,the Chicago rapper SPrem
Strobelites, and One Minute, andthose three songs kind of
brought us to this place wherepeople were looking at us for
the first time, and it was afterthose three songs got released
where we deleted our MySpace anddeleted all the other songs.
so nobody could ever find themagain.

Yes, the rebrand .

No, exactly, We're like no, we can't be these
people anymore.
People are actually payingattention.
We're starting fresh.
We opened for Porter Robinsonin 2011,.
it was the first big gig and Iremember he had a no playlist no
dubstep, no electro house, no,so many things, including all
the genres of the music we madeand we're like fuck the no

(55:40):
playlist and we did whatever.
If you're no playlist is like,please don't play any Cruella
songs.
That's usually what our noplaylists are.
Just don't play any of ourmusic and go play whatever else
you want Totally.
But when they're so specific itis a little shitty.
But I still feel really badbecause that was such a big
moment for Porter.
It was his first big Chicagoshow and I feel kind of like we

(56:03):
were just like we're just goingto rebel and do what we want and
I feel super shitty about it.
Don't be that person.
We were those people, but itwas one of those.
I mean, you guys were makingyour own music also, so it's
like We had a dubstep song, wehad an electro house song, we
had all these songs we're like,until we just not play our own
music.
I think Porter did okay, he didjust fine.

He's a legend.
We love Porter.
He's doing great.

But I think, as these things were happening,
these promoters in Chicago wereseeing what we could do and the
energy we brought and how webrought something a little bit
different.
And then we went to Australiain 2012 and we did live singing
for the first time, which was ashit show because nobody was
doing it yet.
Nobody was mixing live in DJ yet, and it was being the first

(56:49):
ones to do anything.
You know shit's going to gowrong.
You know it's going to soundbad.
You know you have nobody tolean on to tell you what the
right and wrong way to doanything is, and so it was
really bad.
It was truly just bad, but itwas a learning process.

Why was it bad?

We had no friend of house person, so we had
nobody mixing the show.
We had like a little mixer onstage with us So he would run
back and forth telling us likeyou need to turn the vocals up,
okay, now they need to come down, there's too much high end,
like, oh my.

God, it was, oh my God, during the set.
Oh man, that's a lot to thinkabout.

And so we were self mixing the show based on
what Nathan was telling us.
It sounded like.
So then we went to Ultra and wedid that at Ultra live.
Like I think that sets onfucking YouTube.
Don't watch it, it might not be, i don't actually know.
But then, like, we bombed alittle less that time.
You know, every time we werebombing a little less every time

(57:44):
.
And eventually we got itfigured out and we like created
a team around it.
We started making enough moneyto actually bring someone on the
road to work our in-ears,because we were using fills.
In the beginning We didn't havein-ears.
We finally figured out, oh, weshould have in-ears, we should
have an in-ear person and afriend of house person.
We started to build it out andit became so clear to us how to
build the team out.
But we fucked up a lot, webombed a lot before we got to

(58:07):
that point, like, whether it'sreleasing a bunch of demos that
are sitting on your hard drivefor a year or just doing the
thing you know you're supposedto try to do and failing like
you just have to start.
That's one of my things.
I've said it a lot ininterviews, but I like really

(58:29):
feel the need to reiterate it.
You have to start, because ifyou don't, you will get stuck in
this place of just trying toone up yourself And just trying
to like oh, i could just dobetter, i could do better, i
could make it more perfect, icould make it sound better, my
songwriting could be better, mymix could sound better.
You can do that forever andthen you're just nowhere.

What's the worst that can happen?

Yeah, and play the shows with a new setup.
That might not sound great, butyou're practicing and you're
trying, like do it.

I'm so glad that you said this, because this is
one of the main points that Ihad talked about as well is like
fail forward, Just just.
if you have an idea, just dothe damn thing Yeah.
Cause, if it sits in your head,you never move forward, you
never get feedback on it.

You never move forward.

You didn't try to learn to DJ on a CDJ, you
just got out there and did thedamn thing And you said you
failed, and then a lot, and thenyou went on to the CDJs and I'm
sure that you failed with thatfor sure.

Oh my gosh.

And then you threw in.
I still do.
sometimes I'm just like I'mjust playing my own song all the
time It's fun.
Yeah, it's human.

I'll be like enjoying myself so much that my
elbow hits the play button andjust stop the music at a huge
show and I'll just get on themic and be like that was my bad
And just press play.
Again It happens.

It would be hilarious, if you like, sort of
jump in and you smack it againand you're just like It's all
happened.

It's all happened.

Damn.
I need a video of that one,please.
Somebody find that, oh God.
But then you throw in the livevocals, right?
Yeah.
And you fail And you just keepon going.
But you figure it out as you'regoing, but you don't just sit
there and analysis, paralysisand not move forward.

Yasmine Yousaf (01:00:10):
Yeah, That's such a key.
But that's another thing aboutbeing in a group with people,
even if I was analysis,paralysis, analysis, paralysis
thing.
I like that.
Not a term, someone elsewouldn't be and it would pull me
out Like Johan wouldn't be, orChris wouldn't be, or Nathan,
you know, someone wouldn't be.
In those early days we wouldall just keep each other on this

(01:00:31):
like autopilot, but just likestraight shot path of like sorry
, we're still, we're stillmoving, so, so get out of
whatever you're thinking andwe're going.
There were some moments inthose early days that felt so
unhealthy, like looking back andlike, wow, super unhealthy,
super toxic, not a good way towork or create relationships

(01:00:54):
with the people that you'remaking music with.
It was a lot of like pressureand a lot of like well, if you
don't do this, you're out.
You know a lot of a lot of likeultimatum talk and a lot of
like no space for breakdowns.
You know a lot of that got usto where we are today, but it's
something that I had to work tounlearn, because I thought that

(01:01:16):
hard work equaled ignore yourmental health and just keep
going like up until like 2020.

Austin Seltzer (01:01:27):
This is such a interesting conversation for me
because I I know many peoplelike you at this point where you
can look back and say that It'sincredibly hard to ignore how
again delusional or obsessed orjust like you, have horse
blinders on to anything going onthat allow people like you to

(01:01:51):
make it to that level.
There are so many people thatI've I've heard in interviews
that just say I never looked upand I wish I would have.

That's really sad.

It is, but like what if?
what if?

I did look, or what if we did look up and where
we were?

What, if you take the time, is that all of
the people who didn't make it towhere you are Like?
I really like having thisconversation because it's so
difficult If you ask almostanybody who has made it to a
level that you're like, oh shit,they did not look up, like 99%
of them.
How do we deal with this goingforward?

Awesome.
This is a real conundrum for mebecause I, at this point in my
life, will not trade my peacefor anything, but it took me
sacrificing my peace for likemore than a decade to get to
this place, and I'm also in aprivileged position where I'm
financially comfortable and wehave an incredibly solid career

(01:02:50):
where I can go fuck off and likehelp myself.
So I can't speak from a placeof preaching anything, because
I'm in a position of privilegeAnd so anything I say is tainted
by that not tainted in a badway, but it is tainted.
And so, like I would never tellsomeone who's on the come up
like take care of yourself first, man.

(01:03:11):
Like don't forget that, becausethat's going to go in one ear
out the other.
Like it has to come from aninternal place.
No one can force you to taketime off or like have slow
mornings or put yourself first.
Like no one can force theperson who is in that position.
Like it truly has to come fromwithin.
It had to come from within forme.

(01:03:32):
Like I saw Jahan doing thatduring the like a little bit
2019, 2020.
I saw her doing it firsthandand I resented her for it.
For some of it Like damn, likeshe's fucking taking this time
off to like get healthy, likewhy can't I?
I didn't resent her.
You know, i hate to say Iresented her because I resented
myself, because I couldn't.

(01:03:54):
Resentment isn't towards theother person.
It's like seeing what someoneelse does, being affected by it
and then not taking action.
To me, that's what resentmentis and It truly like I had to
get to the like rock bottom-y,bottom-ist place to see why she
was doing what she was doing forherself and to really have it

(01:04:17):
click.
And now we both get it.
And if we both don't want to do, if one person doesn't want to
do something even if I reallywanted to do something but Jahan
didn't I'm just like okay, wewon't do.
It Rolls off my back.
I'm not like but theopportunity and the money and
the this and no, i'm like cool,you don't feel like it's right
Done, cool, it's so much moresimple now that we both get it.

Damn.

Another tangent.
I'm so sorry, No.

I get it.
You just you have to.
you have to be on the same page.
Yeah, i've had thisconversation as well with
friends before.
that It's the you can lead ahorse to water thing.
You can say it all day long,but if it doesn't come from
within, how you can't penetratesomebody's mind with your

(01:05:06):
feeling, it has to come fromwithin.

And Austin.
I like hate to take us out ofmusic world, but this goes for
everything A romanticrelationship, relationships with
your parents, relationshipswith even not in music workplace
, but any workplace.
You cannot control what someoneelse does.
You can't force them to seesomething, and like things truly
need to come authentically forpeople to create real change.

(01:05:30):
Like I really like out.
If you're struggling out therebecause you're trying to get
someone to see something whetherit's work, whether it's romance
, whether it's familialrelationships, whatever it is
just stop, just take a step backand just like have a moment for
yourself and realize that likereally like we hear it all the

(01:05:52):
damn time that we can onlycontrol ourselves.
But this is something I'm stilllearning.
Like I still, when I feel sostrongly about something, i'm
like I just want to be there, iwant this person to see it, i
just want this person to get it.
And I am trying my absolutebest in the last couple of years
of my life to just take a stepback and be like there's no
forcing anything.
Forcing someone to seesomething would hurt me.

(01:06:14):
Like I don't want to forceanyone to do anything.

Actually, I find a lot of these conversations
just like even off the podcast,like whenever it's one on one
and it's deep.
We're always talking toourselves actually Yes, big time
.
Yes, and like this I stop andI'm like fuck, i'm just talking
to myself, aren't?

I, that's for me , that's for me Yeah it's for me
.

You're a mirror and but we need mirrors?
Oh God, big time.
Because if it's up in my headand it's not verbalized, I guess
I'm.
Somebody has to talk throughthings.
I am incredibly good atfiguring out things in my head,
but the key to all of the thingsalways is verbal.
Yeah, Like I get 95% of the waythere, but then as soon as I

(01:06:56):
verbalize something like acouple words into a sentence,
I'm like, oh fuck.

Yep, that's it.
That's the answer.
Yes, yes.

And then I just have to say thank you to
somebody because they were mymirror.
Maybe that's what this podcastis is just me.

Holding up a mirror.

Yeah, maybe all of these conversations are just
for me to learn about myselfthrough the lens of someone else
.

The best relationships in life And like
don't take my word for itbecause I know nothing.
I'm learning every single day,but I feel like the best
relationships are the ones thatput a mirror up to you and
you're like oh shit, I don'tlike what I see.
And they're the ones where youfeel safe enough not to run away
.
Oh yeah, God, the caffeine man.
What'd you?

(01:07:41):
put in this shit.
What'd you just Those frinkled?

potions Pure, unadulterated coffee.
Yeah.

Magic potions.

Wait, i asked a question and somehow we went
there, which was beautiful, butwhen did Jake come into the
picture and what was Jake doing?
Okay, awesome.

So I've never talked about this like on the
record, and I feel like thislike surmountable guilt about it
, so I'm just going to talkabout it here, right here and
right now.
And it's kind of funny nowbecause this was so long ago and
I was like 19 when thishappened and I'm 31.

(01:08:23):
So this was like 12 years ago.
But I was at movement Detroitlast weekend with Devin Devin's
from Detroit, Devin's my partnerYeah.

Devin.
Oliver Shout out Devin.

Shout out Devin.
And on the last day of movement, skrillex played and I haven't
seen Skrillex in so long.
I was so fucking excited.
I literally had butterflies.
I was so excited because I lovehim.
Like, if you don't love him,you don't make sense to me.

I really think he's the best to ever do it, and
I don't mean as a DJ.
I literally mean as a producer,as possibly an artist.

So to one of his sets.
Now you might add DJ to thatlist, because his set was so
genius.

Me and Cass actually saw him recently,
insane.
I felt.
Actually I just got chills Samesame.

Thinking about it, i love that I am not jaded
because I can get so fuckingchildlike, obsessed and excited
to go see a Skrillex set as ifI'm fucking 17.
Because I think I was 17 when Ifirst heard about Skrillex, but
he was sunny more back then.

Yeah, But I remember it was.
it was the in between projectbetween Skrillex and.

It was so good and I was obsessed.
So I like having the ability tostill be that to me.
I'm like, thank God, i don'tever want to be jaded,
especially about music, fuck,music and love.
Please never, god, if you're upthere, don't let me be jaded
ever.
But when he played well, ithink it's called what is it

(01:09:50):
actually called?
Summit.
But when he first leaked thesong it was called Breathe.
Do you remember that?
I do Yeah.
This is where Jake came in thepicture.
I promise this is all going tomake sense.
Skrillex releases this likedemo version of a song.
You know, like it's.
It's the first song he's everreleased.
It doesn't have a that doesn'thave a drop, it's just like a

(01:10:11):
very like low key emotional vibe.
And Jake's in the picture forthe funniest reason Johan and
Chris.
He went to high school withJohan.
The same grade.
Jake's younger sister was in mygrade in high school.
It's such a small world And shenow owns this like incredible
catering chef company.
She's a fucking boss.

(01:10:32):
I love that for her, thatfamily's on some other shit in a
good way, like they're just allincredible geniuses.
But Jake was trying to have amusic career.
He was trying to be a pop starand Johan and Chris would
produce beats for him and Johanwould write songs for him and he
would sing them and rap them.

I had no idea.

And so as he was kind of phasing out of the I'm
going to be a pop star rappercareer, he was like I still want
to do something with music.
And he was the CFO for a hugecandy company.
Like he was doing, he went toschool for business, like his
mind is on some other shit, formarketing and business, and he

(01:11:11):
was like really excited aboutCruella and everything we were
doing and kind of getting liketapping into the electronic
scene and made no sense to him,like DJing made no sense to him.
He was like what are they doingup there?
And like he's like why is thismusic the way it is?
But I think through us hestarted to understand it a
little bit.
And when we were all freakingout about Skrillex dropping this

(01:11:31):
song Breathe, he was just likeyou guys have to like write over
it.
We're going to produce Drop,we're going to put it out and
we're going to leak it as ifit's a collab with Skrillex.
Oh shit.
So from the moment we heard God,this is where the surmountable
guilt comes in.
From the moment we heard thesong to the moment we released
it was three days we went turbomode and we were just like, cool

(01:11:55):
, john and I are going to writesome shit, we're going to record
it, we're going to produce thisout with Chris, we're going to
create a Drop, we're going tomake it like a song, like a full
fledged song with a Drop andeverything.
And we released it.
But the way it was releasedthis was like Drake's trial
management period, because hewas like I'm going to go hard
for you guys And like I kind ofwant to manage you guys And like

(01:12:17):
let me show you what I can do.
He took the song we made andlike leaked it to a bunch of
people and was like, oh shit, igot the leak of the new Skrillex
song, but the MP3 said Skrillexfeaturing Cruella, and so all
the blogs picked it up.
And this is why I feel soguilty is because I feel like we

(01:12:41):
took something away fromSkrillex's release.
To this day, i'm just like Ifeel kind of bad because that
song ended up coming out, withEllie Golding on it, like very
shortly after we released thisleaked version.
I feel like his team was justlike who the fuck are these
people Like?
who is Cruella?
Who are these people?
So this is not our song, and Ifeel like he was.
Him and his team were probablyjust like we have a real song,

(01:13:03):
let's just like release the realversion on my socials and just
like to shut these fuckingpeople up.
So I feel really bad about it.
I feel like we stole a shinethat we shouldn't have stolen.
But Jake really did some shit.
He really like made that songpop off in the blog days and
people were so amazed They werelike who is this Cruella person,

(01:13:25):
even though we're three people?
and how did they get a songwith Skrillex, even though we
didn't have a song with Skrillex?
So, sonny, i'm really sorry.
Like I still feel kind of badabout that And have you talked
with him about it?

You deserved better?

No, because I'm scared of confrontation.
and Sonny's probably the nicestguy.
I've met him a few times.
He actually is the nicest guyin the world But I just feel
like it's 12 years ago.

It's 12 years in the past and you know it's fine
, Everything's fine, it doesn'tmatter at all, but it would also
be incredibly cathartic.

I bet It'd probably be really funny.
He'd probably be like why doyou feel bad about this?
And I'd be like, i don't know,i have a lot of shame in my soul
and I need to get rid of it.
But yeah, jake really provedhimself with that because, dude,
when that happened, then we gotMonster Cat's attention and we
released Killing It with MonsterCat And that's where I.

(01:14:18):
That's where you heard of us,that's where most people heard
of us, and it's so funny becauseour A&R at Columbia Records
we're not with Columbia anymore,but our A&R, andrew Keller,
shout out.
Andrew Keller, he discovered uson.
Oh my God, what was thatwebsite where you could like
heart something and it would go?

up, Oh Hype'em.

Hype'em.
Thank you.

Yeah, he discovered Killing.
It on Hype'em Killing It.

And because it was like getting all these
upvotes every single day.
and he heard that and he flewout to Chicago to meet with us
and he was just like I want tosign you to Columbia Records.
like, show me the other shityou have.
And we were like I just gotchills because I'm like, excuse
me, major label, we're justthese little shits from Chicago
making me like faking our waythrough this shit.
We just faked a Skrillex collab.

(01:15:03):
You want to sign us to ColumbiaRecords?
And we had almost a full EPdone and it was the Play Heart
EP and Alive was on that.
And when he heard that heimmediately knew He was just
like cool, i'll see you nextweek.
I'll bring the president ofColumbia here.

Oh my gosh, i know.

Columbia flies out to meet us.
I'm a child, austin.
I'm like a faking kid.
Still, i was 19, just turning20 as this was happening.
And, by the way, if you're 19and you don't feel like a kid,
turn 31 and look back onyourself as a 19 year old and

(01:15:40):
you'll be like, no, i was afaking kid, for sure.
I probably was cosplaying as anadult, but I wasn't an adult at
all.
I'm still not really an adult,but whatever.
And yeah, that really fakingchanged the trajectory of so
much.
Because we white-labelled thatfirst EP, because we were so

(01:16:02):
afraid of the EDM communityknowing that we had released
something on a major label andthinking we had sold out,
because it was all about theunderground back then.
It was all about, like, stayingtrue to your roots And we
needed to hang on to that, evenif by a thread, because that was
our core, that's how we got towhere we were, by our fan base

(01:16:24):
that we were in touch with everysingle day, these songs that
really tapped in to what peoplewanted to feel in here And that
was so deeply important to ourbrand I hate the word brand, but
I don't know what other word touse And we white-labelled,
released the first EP and thatwas June 2012.
I still have it faking tattooedon my faking fingers.

(01:16:45):
That's so funny.
Anyways, i asked 6, 18, 12,june 18th Wow, what day is it?
June 6th?

Yeah, diablo came out today.
That's why I knew that Diablo 4.

I've been waiting for this for a long time
Does it always come out on 6, 6for a reason.

I actually don't know.
We'll figure that out later.
Let's just go with that.

And then, a year later, our first album came out
, get Wet.
But man, between puttingPlayhard out and putting Get Wet
out, that was probably the mostlife-changing year of my life.
We went from making music Iremember everybody knows this

(01:17:27):
story but we made a live, or wefirst started writing live on
New Year's of 2011, going into2012.
We had no show.
We were like, if you're poppin', you're playing a show on New
Year's, but we were just sittingat our loft drinking Bud Light,
limes or whatever the fuck, andwriting this song that would
end up changing our lives.

(01:17:48):
And it's just so funny to thinkabout it.
We had no idea It was so pure.
For us, it was just so pure Andif I had known everything that
was going to happen, i wouldn'teven fucking believe it.
I wouldn't believe it.
Actually, maybe I would've,because I was fucking delusional
.

Yeah, i do know.
I'm sure, whenever you werewriting, that the goal was we
want to be massive.
We want to be playing a showtonight next year Exactly.

And we were, we were.

Hell yeah, do you know what you played that?

next year.
Pretty sure Lights All Nightwas one of them, that's what I
meant Because it was.
We had two shows on New Year's.
We had Lights All Night andsomething else, and I can't
remember what it was.
That's so awful Fuck.

Oh yeah, i met you that next year at Lights All
Night, which I have a pictureof 2012, going into 2013.
Yeah, That sounds right.
I don't know.
I can actually look at mypicture, the one I showed you.
Do you remember the picture Ishowed you?

Of course, Of course It's fucking hilarious.
It's the night I met Psy also.

Yeah, is that?

Yeah, i think so .
He interviewed us Right.

I think he met you while you were in town.
Maybe, But I think he had youguys stuff Oreos in your mouth
or something like that.

Some shit like that sounds very.

Yeah, so my buddy Psy was hosting it, or he
was the host of a radio show,technologic Radio, and it was at
a UTA in Arlington, texas Sowild Yeah.
And he would talk to variouselectronic artists who were
popping in.
Yeah, i think he had you guyson to stuff Oreos in your mouth

(01:19:23):
and you had to answer questionswhile you Such a good premise.
Such a good premise I love it,taste good, it's hilarious, it's
comedy.

Absolutely Amazing.

Yeah, wow, yeah.
It's crazy that it happened offof one track on Hypom that
caught the attention of a major,but I mean, hypom was what I
guess labels are using tech talkfor right now.

Yes, it was the benchmark, but also back to the
like, got back to the quotebehind me and back to the
everything you do matters, Likeit's not insignificant.
We had to release all theMySpace music and then delete it
.
We had to release the firstthree songs, which are like
they're low key, like pleasedon't even go listen.
I mean, if you want to, fine,but like they're not.

(01:20:08):
Things that I'm like, yes, butlike they were a part, they're
building blocks.
We had to.
We had to steal Skrillex's shotand release that song.
I didn't say it like that,honestly, i'm fucking.
I stan Skrillex.
Like this is like I feel so bad, like even saying it like that.
But yeah, yeah, i just feellike all of those things had to

(01:20:31):
happen for killing it to have tohappen, for alive and the whole
play hard EP to have to happen,like all that had to happen
that way.
So just release the music.

Yeah, just release it Just let it go.
I want to get to some otherstuff as well.
Like I think that people areunderstated or they can
understand from the conversation.
We've had some key takeawaysfor success.
For sure.
Like it just takes a lot of hardwork.
You have to give up literallyeverything in life, i think for

(01:21:04):
a long period of time where youare just grinding, because there
are millions of people who dowhat we do or want to do, who
are putting in that work And itit.
These things take time.
You're not just born with theability to do everything that
you need to to be an artist Like, yes, you can, you can be.

(01:21:26):
You can just be born withtalent, like more just innate
talent, but talent doesn't getyou that far without the work,
and so those have to live in thesame world.
But one other thing that Ithink people can take away from
you guys is you've had a verylong career And I want to

(01:21:48):
understand, i think, from, i'lljust say, a fan perspective, you
guys have built a true fan basethat, like diehard people that
whenever you announce a tour,they heard you back in.
You know 2012 and they stillare coming out.
What do you think has allowedyou guys to have such a long

(01:22:09):
career?

Longevity is a funny thing, right?
Because people are very fickle.
Listeners are very fickle, evenme, as, like a diehard music
listener, i like I'm the albumlistener My favorite artist
comes out with an album.
It's all I'll listen to for thenext six months, on repeat, top
to bottom, and I'll go to theshow and I'll buy them.
That's me.
I'm a fan, but I do know frompersonal experience as an artist

(01:22:34):
and as a fan, people are veryfickle, so it's a hard thing to
truly lock down that.
I think that the way you makepeople feel in your music is
very important, and also with,like who you outwardly claim to
be, and I think peopleconnecting with something is the

(01:22:58):
reason why Jahan and I arestill where we are.
And I mean to be honest, likeI'm not going to go too deep
into it, but, like when we gotsued in 2014, and then, like my
whole life was put on blast forlike a long time, jahan and I
did have to further put on thoselike horse blinders and just be

(01:23:21):
like we could either quitbecause everybody fucking hates
us, or we could just keep goingand see what happens.
And we kept going.
And it was a true testament tothe fact that because we were
creating from authentic places,always like even when the
awesome.

(01:23:41):
When I tell you like bless ourA&R and bless Columbia Records
for everything they did for us.
But when we were angry and wewere making angry music, they
were like, no, sorry, this does.
We were like, no, but we'reangry, but we're sad, but we're
in pain And this is all we cando right now.
This is all we can do.
Like we'll go in the studiowith your like top 40 writer and

(01:24:04):
write a pop hit, but it's notcoming out.
Like it's not something we feellike we can back.
Like we'll do what you want usto do, but when it comes time to
release, like we have things weneed to say and we definitely
like compromise with them a lotLike that's what the ammunition
EP was like, there's a wholenother body of work.
That's so much anger that nevercame out, so much more like I

(01:24:29):
don't know stuff y'all willnever hear.
But it's just this shit that wehad to compromise on and never
got to release.
But I think because people knewwe were always creating from an
authentic place and wanted toconnect with people over it, i
think that's what's worked forus.
I don't think the same formulaworks for everybody, though.

(01:24:51):
I know plenty of people whodon't make their own music and
are just DJs, and they havegreat careers.
So, like, truly not the samething does not work for
everybody, but for Johanna and Iit's the only way we know and
it's the only way that I feelgood about working through and
creating from.

(01:25:12):
So, yeah, i'm not a businesswoman first, i'm a musician
first, through and through.
I don't know how to think aboutlike how can I capitalize off
the market today?
I don't know how to think aboutlike, okay, this song is really

(01:25:32):
good, but if I just brought inthis person to make it shinier,
we could, like, hit the chartsagain.
I don't know how to think likethat.
All I know how to do to thisday, from day one till now, and
I've learned a lot.
but it's like the one thingthat hasn't changed for both
Johanna and I is like, if welike what we're doing and it
feels authentic to us, likethat's good enough, i don't care

(01:25:56):
if the A&R doesn't like it, idon't care if it doesn't hit the
charts.
Like, that's how we feel.
Yeah.

I think that that really is the longevity
there.
I do think that the audiencethat found you guys understands
that.

Yeah, i hope so.

Well, i mean, i think that it shows, whenever
you guys go back on a tour, thatpeople are there.

Yeah, that's very true, and it's crazy to
know that people connect withstuff that we made 12, 13 years
ago and the stuff that we madeyesterday You know it's like not
yesterday, but you know whatI'm saying Like it's really a
testament to people growing withyou, like the new fans too,
that like have just learnedabout us from the last record.
That's amazing as well.

(01:26:38):
But the people who have beenthere since day one, who have
grown with us, i'm like that'sso fucking cool to be on a
journey with people like that,because when my favorite bands
I'm like I know what that feelslike My favorite artists, i know
what that feels like Yeah, andI loving a little deliver that
to people.
It's so cool, it's fuckingcrazy.

I want to tell everybody now and we I don't
think that we've actually liketalked through this, but I want
to I want to bring up all thecrazy intertwining of my world
and the Cruella world and howit's brought so many of my
friends together.
Yes.
It's actually.
It is the one like connectionthat I always bring up.

(01:27:23):
I don't understand how thishappened, what you know.
The universe just made thesethings kind of happen.
But yeah, to go all the wayback.
I mean, of course, i heardkilling it.
And yeah, i mean, and I loveJaws music like everything that
you guys would drop.
I would play all the time withmy friends and he will come

(01:27:48):
later in the story.
But of course our friend Jamesremix that song New Tricks.

Oh my God, best, best remix Well, one of the
best, because I love all of them, but like, oh, so inventive.

Yeah, yeah, i actually listened to it this
morning just to refresh my mind.
Just like, what did this soundlike back in the day?
And there was totally nothinglike that.

Nothing it was.
Inventive is the only word Ican think of, because when we
first heard it I remember beinglike who the fuck is New Tricks
Like this shit is crazy.

Wait, how did that remix come about?
I don't think James has evertold me that.
I think.

Jake and Nathan were just reaching out to
certain people.
We already knew some of them,like the dirty phonics I loved
it.
I still love them Dirty phonicsgreat God, there's still homies
of mine to this day And thosesome of them were like Instagram
DMs, but some of them werepeople that we didn't actually
know or have a relationship with, and then we would go through
management.
We had a long list of peoplethat we were like dream remixes.

(01:28:45):
We would just go down the listand reach out to people.

Yeah, maybe we should talk about some of those.
I'll know all of them, but sohe'll come on later in the story
.
But so of course I'm listeningto the to y'all's music.
I believe I can't remember ifI'd met Si.
See, that's the funny thing.
I don't know if I I.

(01:29:10):
I'm just going to go ahead andsay that I don't think I knew Si
, but he had you guys on hisradio show.

Yes.

And then I met you, which there's no way you
remember this because it was itwas lights all night.
It was just wild, too manypeople.
But I met you purely as a fan.
I think that somebody invitedme to lights all night And so I
had a VIP wristband Amazing AndI was doing a lot of a lot of
networking at Lizard Lounge inDallas.

Oh yeah, of course I mean that was the spot.

It was, It was, I don't know if it's still.
No, it's not.

Oh no, is it close?
Yeah, the pandemic?
Oh no, that hurts my soul.

Not only that, they tore it down.

Bro why?
Condominiums or some shit.

I think that they're like gentrifying the
entire area.

It sounds like the mid in Chicago.
They tore it down forapartments.

I'm in deep LM where Lizard Lounge was is
completely getting likerenovated in various ways.
No, the chandelier in therelives on.
It moved on and I forgot.
my friends in Dallas who arelistening to this are going to
kill me.
It did move on to another place.

I think Makes me happy A little piece somewhere
else.

Yeah, yeah, really sad, but I would go there
at least twice to three times aweek And I mean, but my whole
thing was I was, i was prettysad.
The thing was I was, i wasproducing and I wanted to meet
other people that I could askthese nitty gritty questions
with And, funny enough, likealmost all artists who did
produce their music, like I,could have these like dumb,

(01:30:42):
stupid down the rabbit holequestions like compressor
settings and the two things Andbecause they were like oh shit,
somebody else who can talk aboutthis, Because YouTube wasn't.

What it was today.
No, it wasn't.

Exactly It wasn't what it is today.
Like you couldn't just go andget information, so I needed to
get it from somewhere.

Yes.

So I don't, I don't know who invited me, but I
went there and I had this VIPwristband, So I was in this VIP
area and I saw you and I went upto you as and I don't, I have
no idea what I said, but Thiswas at Lizard or at Lights All
Night.

Lights All Night , okay.

Yeah, and it must have just been like a fun
little conversation And I justremember like we took that
picture.
We took, we took a picture andyou know it's stupid and goofy,
but we just took a picturetogether And but I I remember
having a feeling of you werejust like a genuinely kind
person And that was thatsnapshot in time.

(01:31:40):
And then later on I getintroduced to one of my best
friends, cy And I.
He said that he had you guys on.
I was like, oh my gosh, i mether just like a day later or
something like that.
Yes.
And we had this, this connectionwith you.
And then fast forward in time,i moved from Nashville to LA and

(01:32:05):
I'm working for somebody as anassistant and ammunition.
The album comes through and Ijust get a little giddy because
I'm like I.
I have loved Cruella for solong, i, and now I'm getting to
somehow work on.

This is like three and a half years later.
I want to say Yeah, it was 2016.

I'm not sure it was the beginning of March or
something.
Yes, 2016.
Yeah, whenever it was, and itwas you two, and then, i'm sure,
nathan came through.

Nathan was there , cody was there.

No, Cody came later.

Did he come later?

Yeah, So no, you're right, Cody you guys did
a Christmas tracker or you didsomething after my time.

Not a Christmas track, but around Christmas.

Okay, around Christmas.

All I know is there was like, not a Christmas
song.
It was actually team.

Oh, okay, yeah, Okay.
I don't know if you know thatsong.

We mixed that studio, but yeah.
You weren't there anymore.

No, I had quit.

You were there for all of ammunition, though.

I was.

So if you know that EP Austin worked on, it, i
did.

I did And yeah.
So you guys came through and Ijust like I.
It was such an awesome circularmovement that I've loved you
guys for a while, and then I gotto play a very, very small role
, but a role.

No, mixing is a huge role Do you never downplay
I?

wasn't the mix engineer, though I feel you, but
you were a part.

You were a part of the team.

I was a part of the team And, yeah, i remember
you guys coming in and Stephenwas there, though Stephen was a
producer on some of the tracks,right Are you talking about
Stephen Swartz?

He was.
He worked on one track.

Okay, he did come in the studio, though, one
day.

He worked on Can't Forget You, which is one
of the songs on ammunition.
Yeah, we worked on that one.
We wrote that with him.

Marching on.

Marching on was with.

Andrew Goldstein Yes, Andrew, I love you.

Andrew, You had him on right.

Not yet.
Actually, we had to reschedule,but I think I'll have Andrew on
.
I love Andrew.

I love him.
I love that dude.
I haven't seen him in years,but such a good dude, okay,
anyways.

So we had that relationship like I got to work
on this album And then I left LAbecause of I was just so dead
and jaded with music.

I actually did not know that, yeah.

We'll talk about that off camera.

For another time .
Yeah, I don't?

it's just like it's so deep and hurtful time
for me.
Yes, Just like you're 2014, andI just don't like talking or
giving light to the person whomade me feel that way, i fully
get it, yeah, so then I did.
I went back to Dallas.

Okay, how long were you in Dallas before you
came back?

Well, i was in Dallas for nine months Okay, i
actually haven't said this onthis podcast and I mean I feel
like let me straighten up herefor you guys watching.
I'm not slouching during mycome up story or my comeback
story.

Come back, come back, baby, you were already
there.
You just needed to find itagain.

I did.
Yes, i went back to Dallas andI just needed to feel solid
ground.
I, yeah, i was like the mosthappy go lucky human and
everything seemed to just begoing my way, like in the best
way, not not in any other wayJust like I was putting in the

(01:35:35):
hard work and cool things werecoming back.
And then I really got socked inthe face and you know just like
I had to lay down for a bit andnurse the wounds.
And so I went back to Dallas andI got my insurance sales
license.

Oh shit, I sold insurance Bro side quest.

Full side quest.

Absolutely.
I would have never guessed.
By the way.
There's nothing wrong withselling insurance.
It's just not what I would.

No, it's a 180 from you're just like music is
your calling, it is your purposeAnd I just wouldn't see it.

Yeah, but it's part of the, it's part of
licking the wounds, it's part ofthe healing, so you got to just
go on a side quest sometimes.
Yeah, there was no way that Iwould be standing here or
sitting here doing what I do ifI hadn't gotten socked in the
face in the job?

Yes, And if?
if I hadn't gone back and soldinsurance and felt solid ground.
I was selling home auto andsome life insurance.

Umbrella policy baby, let's go.
Yeah, you make a little bitextra commission.
Yeah, why not Yeah?
And so I did that for ninemonths.

I think it was nine months.
That's just the number thatcame in head and into my head.
I'm trying to think It had tohave been because I started
somewhere around January and I,i was like I started somewhere
around January and I went on afour month trip in November.

So less than a year.

Yeah, less than a year, but long enough that I
felt solid ground And I guess Icould talk about this on this
podcast, cause I don't know ifI'll get in trouble with any
algorithm type things orwhatever.
But yeah, then I had my firstpsychedelic trip with mushrooms.

Amazing, i love mushrooms.
Yeah, i don't think we'll getin trouble, okay, i don't know
if I'll ever know about thispart.

Yeah, i don't want anybody to hear, but I do,
i do.
You should do mushrooms, yeah.
I didn't tell you that You'refrom me.
It gosh it.
it changed your life.
Yeah, it took somebody who wasjust.

I'm not going to keep whispering.

I liked it for a second It it took somebody
who's incredibly jaded withmusic.
I actually did not reallylisten to music, I absolutely.
I uninstalled Ableton Pro Tools, the whole nine yards.

You sound like me right now.
This is me right now.

So now it's a mirror.

Now it's a mirror.
Sorry to go on, go on.

I.
I deleted every music software,every plugin, every sample,
everything I didn't turn on myradio on my car.
I was, i was that hurt with,with I don't know where.
I thought that I had likereached up here.

Yeah.

I think I touched the sun too quickly and
I fell back down and Well,icarus story, exactly, i got you
.
But this Icarus did not drown.
That's, that's the thing.
I, yeah, i, i had a trip andthe generally three days later
because it it took me.
It took a moment for themedicine to to affect me.

(01:38:39):
But I was taking a shower onemorning and I was getting ready
to go in to sell insurance and Ijust started bawling.
Well, you couldn't tell whatwas shower water, what was my
tears.
It was just coming down but Ihad, for the first time, i was

(01:39:00):
humming and singing randommelodies and like, playing, like
, just like drums on the, thetile in the shower.
All of my passion for music andeverything came back in like
Tush 10.

Yeah.

And it hit me so hard and I had a goofy little
Amazon drop shipping businessthat I started while I was at
this insurance company and kindof overnight it didn't become so
goofy anymore.
I started selling thesehilariously ball canning jars.

(01:39:36):
I had listed thousands ofproducts but for some reason I
didn't know what canning seasonwas.
I didn't even know that was athing.
But these ball jars startedflying off the shelf But like to
the tune of $30,000 in a month.
Where I didn't like I wasn't, ihad 17, sorry, seven VA, so

(01:40:00):
virtual assistants like peoplein the Philippines who this is
what they do.
They get to provide for theirfamily getting paid US dollars,
which is very strong over there.

Yes.

And I was.
I was just going to town withthem like we were trying to
figure out how we can managethis many orders, and so I quit
insurance and I just did thisfor a minute and I saved up
money.
And then Cy and anotherroommate and another guy were

(01:40:32):
ready to go on a four month tripoverseas.
They were already doing it andthey asked me and I was like I
have the money now.

It just came out of nowhere, thank you, And
you're not locked to a job likethat.

I wasn't locked to a job.
I had all the passion for musicback, and so I went overseas
and created music for fourmonths.
Where'd you go?
I went to various places, so Iwent from.
It started in Hawaii for fourdays, we just four days, and
then from there we went toTaipei for just one day because

(01:41:13):
it was a layover.
All of this was to get to thePhilippines, so we went from
Hawaii to Taipei.
Might have been in there juston a layover, but really we went
to Manila for one day.
That was where we had to landAnd we explored just that night.

(01:41:35):
But then we went to, like Allover Palawan.

I don't know what area of the Philippines
that is.

It's like this beautiful island that's just
right off the Philippines, butit's part of the Philippines.
So all over there and I'mforgetting the Boracay, el Nido,
there are a few other places.
So we were there for a whileand then we were in Cebu City

(01:42:05):
and then me and Sai got ourdiving license Oh cool.
So we were diving, we dove likeover 20 times in the
Philippines Damn, it costnothing, damn.
And then we just got to be innature and create, yeah.
So then we went from there.
Sai went to Japan and I wentwith the other guys to Australia
, and so we were there for abouta month and just exploring

(01:42:28):
Australia.
And then I went to Japan fortwo solid months and just
explored their culture, that'sawesome.
Thank God, and all that time Iwas making music.
I'm going on here about a story.
That's okay.
I've never really shared this.

Good, you feel like a safe space to talk, to
Share.
It's your podcast, the peopleshould know.

But it's about you.
but you kind of unlocked thisand me And I think that's kind
of beautiful.

Good, i'm glad.

So, yeah, i created all this music over
there.
And then there was just amoment, i went alone to Japan
And there was this moment wherepretty much everyone in Japan
only speaks Japanese.
Yes, there were various peoplewho do speak some English, but I
really couldn't connect withanybody language wise just like

(01:43:15):
through music or throughgestures or you know some
Japanese words that I could lookup or knew.
But there was this moment where, one on one hand, i just felt
incredibly lonely, you know,because it's hard to connect
with anybody, right?
So you're just learning so muchabout yourself.
And then this one moment whereI knew, right, then it was so

(01:43:37):
weird.
It was this very, very deepfeeling of, if I go back to LA
right now, right, this second, iam going to succeed.
You have everything you need.
You got the passion and driveback.
You've got like six plus yearsof actual, like professional
work under your belt.
Yeah, yeah, it may have been inthe past and shit, i have no

(01:44:00):
credits from that time.
I was not credited for anythingAnd it was like, but that's
okay, the rage I feel, yeah, youknow, that's what it is.

It's more like I'm a big credit where credit is
due person, which is why anyonewho's ever said that Johanna
and I have used ghost producersI'm like no, i will credit
everybody for always.
End of time.
And I hate when people don't.
I hate when people don't.
It's one of my biggest petpeeves in the music industry,
sorry It takes it.

It takes a team.
Music is a team sport.

It is Oh I like that.
I like that Team.

Yeah, team, but I just keep on coming back to
that.
I wasn't a part of that record,but I like it.
Yeah.
And then I just went back outto LA and then there's so much
more there, but that's that.
Wow, this all got a detour.

The hero's journey, though, like I hate to.
You know it's so funny when Ihear phrases come out of
people's mouths Sometimes I'mlike, oh, fucking saying these
words.
But that it's true.
Like I feel like when you knowyou're on your hero's journey
and you can tap in and reallypay attention to your intuition
and your gut, because I feellike we spend so much time

(01:45:15):
ignoring our gut, ignoring ourfeelings, bypassing ourselves
because I should do what I'msupposed to, or this person
expects something of me, or I'ma people pleaser And if I do
that, like these people won't bepleased, like whatever it is.
But when you're truly on yourhero's journey, you are
listening to your gut instinctsand you are following them

(01:45:36):
wherever they take you, and itsounds like you really fucking
followed it.

I did.
That was the one time, i think,in my life that I was an
autopilot for some hire,whatever.
It was just like.

The muse was controlling you.
Yeah, yes.

Here is the road , just take it.
Say yes.
There were so many reasons whyI should have said no.

Yeah, i think I should find a reason to say no.
You know that I'm going tobring up a fucking Lady Gaga
song, but whenever I heard thatsong she has that lyric about
like there's a million reasonsto leave, but I just need one
good one to stay.
Like I have applied that to some.
Like that lyric in itself hasbeen like okay, even if I have

(01:46:15):
one good reason to do somethingfucking crazy, i think I might
do that crazy thing, even ifthere's a million reasons that
are telling me I got to justlike no, i should stay put, or I
should save the money, or I gotto do this for work.
Like no, like I'm trying tolisten to that instinctual thing
.
It's so important, it's soimportant.

Yeah Well, after that long trip, now I'll come
back to more things that are inline with Cruella, and I find I
had to say all of that to say,like the first week I'm back in
LA Legit.

I don't know about this yet.
We haven't gone into this yet.
Tell me the first?

No, i don't think we have.
The first week that I was backin LA, i was crashing on size
floor on an air mattress.
He was staying in Hawthorne.
You guys had a show.
I think it was an OC, but Ican't remember.

Okay.

I don't even know what the club is called.

Do you know what year it was?

Yeah, 2018.
It was something down the coast.

We had a drive.
Was it San Diego or was it theOC?

No, it wasn't San Diego, it was like an hour
drive.
I saw, i guess on social mediaor something, that you guys were
playing Time nightclub.
I don't know what it.

Maybe I'm trying to like dig back into the room.

I can give you Mike Lassanti was tourmanging
that It was time.
It was one show that he did, Ithink.

Time nightclub, I think.

Okay.

I could be wrong , but anyways you came, you
pulled up.

Yeah, So funny enough.
I saw that you guys wereplaying this and I still had
your manager's email orsomething from my time at that
other place.
I was like hey, i would reallylove to come out and see the
girls I worked on ammunition.
I was just making out play.

Dude.
Absolutely, though, but.

I really love these people.
They felt good, like goodpeople, and I want to be around
them.
So I was like, oh my God, i'dlove to see them.
So we drive down there, we goto the show, we are Like you
guys are playing and we are likebehind you guys.

Yeah, the VIP booth is right behind, if I'm
not mistaken.
Yes, Yeah.

So we're standing there but we like
totally feel out of placebecause we didn't We haven't
said hey to you guys.
And there are some people thatare like they own some mega
fucking weed company.
They bought out two of theareas behind you guys Just have
bottles everywhere.
I'm like, okay, so we are soout of place, this is whatever,

(01:49:04):
but we have these one ties tothese girls.
So we're here, yeah, okay, sothe show is done and we want to
say hey to you guys, but youguys run off stage and Where did
we run to?
No, I'll tell you.
But we go over to this elevatorand we're riding down to the
parking garage because you guysare like leaving.

Yeah, yeah, yeah .
We happen to be in the elevatorwith Mr Muturx.

Amazing And this is where we meet James.
I'd never met James, but thisis why Was.

Devin with me at that show, because then that
would explain why James wasthere, because I love James.
We're tight, we're like bestfriends.

There was somebody else in there, but I
don't think it was Devin.

Devin and I were dating then, so he was
definitely there if he was intown.
This is so crazy, so I'm justtrying to connect the dots.
Yeah, i don't know.
Okay.

But I didn't meet Devin then Okay, But James
goes.
Hey, you look familiar to meAnd we'd never met.

It just like probably Did you know who he was
.
Nope, i think it was just Youjust knew him by name.

No, He goes hey, you look familiar, my name is
James.
I was like dude, i'm Austin.
And so I was like I'm Cy.
We gave him a hug on theelevator And then he was like
how do you guys know the girls?
And I was like, oh, i workedfor this guy and we worked on
some of their songs.
He's like, oh, i go byMewtricks.
Back in the day I did a remix.
I was like dude, of course Iknow that remix.

(01:50:34):
That's awesome, yes.
And so then me and James becomereally tight.
He comes over like severaltimes that same week to our
house in Encino.
But we said, by the way, youguys in the parking lot just
like this briefly, because youguys had to hop on a plane to
play a show like That makessense in Vegas.
Like right then Yes.

It was a Vegas show.
I feel like there's no otherthing it could be.
Maybe there is something elseit could be, but it seems like
it would be Vegas.
We did a lot of those like twofor ones with Vegas sets, yeah.

So I mean there was that And then I would
randomly see you.
There was one day that you weregoing to meet Devin, me and Cy
were eating at some pizza placeand you were like Oh, we walked
by in Silver Lake.

Yeah, so yeah, somewhere Was it in Silver Lake,
wasn't it that Thai restauranton Silver Lake Boulevard?

I don't know.
You walked literally right by.
I was like Yassie, i remember,and you came back and was like
oh my God, guys, it's so greatto see you.
I'm meeting Devin right now atSo-and-so Place.
I still hadn't met Devin, butso you just kept on coming up in
our life And it was like.
I mean, LA is a pretty bigplace.

And I don't leave the house that often And
I'm not just that you know thisLike I don't leave the house
that often.

Yeah, I mean you're a homebody, but I love
that.
It's probably because you're onthe road so much.

True, true, true .

But this just keeps on going.
I hadn't met Cody yet, and meand Cody grew up in Dallas
together.
We had the same friend groups,literally We went to the same
shows.
Everything We never met.

We are so deeply connected and don't even
realize it.

all of us I know It's crazy, but Cody reaches
out.
No, sorry, this is how thiseven gets deeper.
James invites me to a dodgeballevent And that Cody is throwing
.
I was like I've always wantedto meet Cody.
We, literally we know of eachother, but we'd never met.

(01:52:25):
So I go there and I meet Devin.

Yep, i wasn't there though.

No.

Yeah, i remember I skipped out because I'm
really bad at dodgeball.
I'm not joking, that'sliterally why I skipped out,
like I will be out the wholegame, so I'm not gonna come.

I love that.
I mean, I get it.
You know, it was hot.
It was hot as hell too.

I'm like the pick glass bitch in school Like
nobody wanted me on their teamfor anything, especially
dodgeball.
But go on.

Whatever, i mean , it would have been fun.
It was a Halloween thing, but Imet Devin, But James invited me
.
Then I meet Cody, and then thepandemic basically strikes.
Oh, i met Maggie that day aswell, and then I ended up mixing
.

I remember this.
Yes, well, i wasn't there, butI remember all of this happening
.

Yes, yeah, yeah.
So I mean more weird things,like I met Maggie and then I
ended up mixing your record.
I didn't know who Maggie was,but you know now me and Cody
know each other And, yeah, thenthe pandemic happens and things
just shut down.
I didn't talk to Cody oranybody, but whenever that
started tailing out, then me andCody started hanging out And
then, you know, finally I hungout with Devin at do you know,

(01:53:35):
the petite hermitage.
Yeah, so I'm with Justin, cryWolf and Ronit.
Yeah.
Yeah, James shows up with Devinand then me and Devin hit it off
and we just like talk.
And then you know you happen tobe at something that we're at
And then, yeah, I mean it's alot of just things that, captain

(01:53:58):
Kenyatta.

Yeah, it's kind of insane.
even when you mentioned, like,justin Cry Wolf, i met him in
like 2012 at a show in likeNorth Carolina.

No way, yeah, i mean where he's from.

Exactly.
But it's just stuff like thatthat I'm like certain people
have just kept showing They justlike repeat as a pattern, And
eventually I'm just like, no,it's not a pattern, It's like
meant to just be there.
All these people are just meantto know each other.

Yeah.

It's wild.

I love it.
I love it so much?
Yes, because I feel like I have, at this point, so many good
memories with you, while one ofthem I was totally going through
the shit.

For sure.
But besides that, Yeah.
Yeah, we got some good stuff todiscuss apparently.

Yeah, well, this one is really great.
I actually had my buddy Mittyon.
He's an amazing producer.
I had him on Saturday and Iasked him, but I think that
you're going to have a differentperspective on this, which I
want.

Yes please Tell me.

How do you go about picking a manager?
And the reason I'm asking thisis because I know that you've
had various managers, but thenafter Jake and I want to hear
about that as well But I thinkthat, from what I heard, you
like not interviewed, butinterviewed a ton of different
managers.

Yeah.

Because I think you figured out what you were
really looking for.
But how?
why did you guys leave thirdbrain?
And what was it like in betweenthat and finding a manager?
and how did you land on amanager?

So it was really interesting because Nathan
wasn't part of third brain buthe partnered with Jake, whose
company was third brain is forCruella.
So we had, like Nathan Lemon Coand third brain partnering as
our managers.
Nathan was our original managerfor three years, then Jake came
on in the end of 2011 and thenup until wow, was it 2018?

(01:56:04):
I think, yeah, 2018.
We, over time, started maybehaving a little bit of a
different vision for Cruella.
Like Johan and I saw somethingelse and Nathan and Jake or
rather, jake started to seesomething else And then, bless

(01:56:25):
his soul, probably was managingmusic for longer than he ever
wanted to.
He had been wanting to get outand do something else with his
life for a long time, but Ithink he stayed because we loved
each other so much, likegenuinely.
Like there are very few peopleoutside of my family that I feel
unconditional love for AndNathan is one of those people

(01:56:47):
that I will just, I just have somuch love for him And I think
we held on because we had thatAnd I couldn't imagine not doing
Cruella or doing Cruellawithout him.
It just didn't make any senseAnd it was a really emotional.
It felt like a breakup but amutual like with so much love

(01:57:08):
kind of breakup, i think forJake he had just he had so many
other projects And I think hewas trying to juggle a lot of
things And I think with Nathanhe was trying to get out And we
were like you know what, guys,why beat this relationship into
the ground?
I feel like we are mutuallypulling away from each other and

(01:57:30):
like let's leave.
With love.
I'm still in touch with Jake.
Jake's one of my fucking homiesto this day.
Nathan's my fucking family forlife.

Yeah, he was at your birthday, or a little
surprise party.

I'm having dinner with him tomorrow Like
he's.
He'll always be in my life.
So will Jake.
I don't like burning bridges orending relationships poorly.
To me is such a cardinal sin,like I don't ever want to do
something that fucks someoneover.
I don't want to ever harmsomeone so much that they can't

(01:58:00):
speak to me Like it's just nothow I do things.
And so John's very similar.
We just had this reallyamicable conversation.
We were like I think it's timeto let go of each other.
It was really sad.
It was so emotional, truly likeI couldn't imagine a career
without Jake and Nathan.
And when we met with we went tored light to meet with Steve and

(01:58:23):
Fiona, who's our manager rightnow And they just seemed to
really want to let us be who weare.
They had no grand ideas to makeus something else.
They were like we love what youare, let's take what you are
and just elevate it.
And I felt so, seen we hadnever worked with a woman in

(01:58:45):
that capacity.
I was so like I had so muchdesire to work with more women
And just seeing so Steve waslike the main manager of he was
the president I don't even knowwhat to call him of the
electronic department at redlight.
He was the head and Fiona washis point person And so they
were our team, the two of themtogether.

(01:59:07):
And over time, like I love Steve, i still love the dude.
He's amazing Like one of themost kind, gentle, menly people
in this business.
But over time we were justworking with Fiona so much more
than Steve that eventually shewanted to break away from red
light and start her own companyAnd we left with her.
Like back to your question likehow do you choose a manager?

(01:59:31):
You have to know what you wantfor yourself first.
If you want to be like TaylorSwift, big and play fucking
stadiums and have songs on theradio and like all that kind of
stuff, you need someone who'sgoing to be the help, be the
vessel to take you there.
But you have to know what youwant.
You have to know yourself, youhave to know the kind of career
you want.

Yeah, I think so .
The the one of the points heregoes back to what we were saying
earlier, that I think peoplehave to fail forward.
Yeah, there's no way that youknow what you want in a manager
unless you've had a manager.
Yes, there's no way you canknow what you want in a
relationship if you haven't hada relationship.
Yes, you're just looking atlike a fantasy.

Big time.

I want to ask kind of the the main question of
the podcast.

So it's changed a lot in my life.
I don't think that it's aconstant variable and I think it
changes as you change, but inthe past few years, as I've
really healed my relationshipwith Jahan and gone back to
being sisters first, it's one ofthe like.

(02:00:44):
It definitely makes me superemotional because I think we
spent so much time in the darkwith each other, spent so much
time like, so much frictionbetween us, still creating and
living authentically in ourcareer, but with a lot of
tension and friction.
I think healing ourrelationship has changed the

(02:01:06):
definition of success for me andit's something that I, like
always thought, i thought, butnow I feel it, i embody it.
You know it's not just likethis concept anymore.
I feel like I'm embodying it isif my relationships with my
closest loved ones areconstantly and consistently

(02:01:29):
growing closer and closer andcloser, even centimeter by
centimeter, i feel like I amsuccessful.
But I had to do so much othershit in my career to get to a
point to realize that that's themost important thing to me.
There was a point in my lifewhere I wasn't I mean like back

(02:01:53):
to the like.
You have to put everything elseon hold and work super hard,
like I was not the bestgirlfriend, sister, daughter,
friend.
I wasn't focusing on thosethings, i wasn't pouring my
energy into those things andlooking back I'm like, okay, i

(02:02:15):
had to learn that I know who Iam today and what I think I will
hold on to for the rest of mylife.
Because it is so clear, it's socrystal clear.
Most things in life are soconfusing.
Most things in life are fullmuck.
To me, the thing that is myNorth Star it's so crystal clear
is that my loved ones, thepeople who make this life is so

(02:02:40):
temporary, right, likeeverything is temporary, even
things that take you to the endof your life.
Death will take everything awayfrom you.
The people who make you feellike there's some morsel of
permanence is like.
That's my definition, is like Iwant to pour my energy there

(02:03:04):
And obviously I'm a creative.
I love waking up every day,being like I'm a fucking
musician.
I'm a creative.
I want to make art for a living.
That is so that drives me aswell.
But if I don't have the peopleI love in my life, knowing that
they can lean on me, rely on me,come to me, love me as I love

(02:03:27):
them, i'm nothing.
I'm nothing without that.
So that's where I'm at rightnow, and I do think as I grow
older I will gather more gems ofwisdom and knowledge and I'll
add to that, and right now I'mlike that's my number one.
That's my number one.

That's beautiful .
I think about this podcastoften as a time capsule where I
really, really want to come backin like a year or two or
something and talk and say likeI'll be here.
This is what we talked aboutlast time, and you're like.
You could be like oh God, thisis where I'm at now.
We're grinding again, we're ontour, we're or.

I will, i can, i can't believe I'm going to say
this because I'm not going tosay this, because it's something
that Johanna and I talk aboutbut I don't really like putting
out there because I don't wantto.
I don't want fans to hear thisand think that something bad is
happening.
Nothing bad has happened tomake me feel this way.
But we will never tour the waywe used to tour.
We will never create the way weused to create.

(02:04:26):
We will always factor in ourmental health and our physical
health above anything on ourcareer, and that means that
there's going to be a lot moretime in space.
It's not going to be grinding.
I won't do the grinding hustleanymore.
I've tapped out of that life.
I don't want, like I hate to beso dark, like maybe I should say

(02:04:51):
trigger warning for this, butlike I don't want to be doing
something I should love and wantto kill myself.
Like there are so many people,so many creatives, who get to
that point and actually do theworst.
Like they come to that worstmoment because they are under a
mountain of pressure and amountain of feeling alone in a

(02:05:14):
room full of people.
Like all of that has likeovertaken their human experience
And I won't.
I'm not going to sacrificeanything for that.
Like I'm not going to get thereAnd I'm not.
I'm never going to let Jahanlike my number one person.
I'm never going to let her getthere.
I'm going to protect myself andI'm going to protect her before

(02:05:35):
I do anything.
Sorry.

Thanks for sharing that, did that feel good
.

Yeah, cause my relationship with Jahan like is
the thing I've learned the mostfrom in my entire life.

Well, i think on that note you want to end it.

Sounds great.
I really want to know how longwe've been talking.
Oh, we'll find out in a secondhere.

Amazing.
Okay, thank you so much forcoming on here.
Thank you, that means a lot,thanks for letting me ramble.

If it weren't for the potion, I wouldn't know,
but I did.
So here we are.

The potion.
I love that It's never beencalled that and I love it.

It felt like a potion.
I'm on another level right now.
Let's go Hell yeah.
Thank you, thank you Okay.

So, now that you've listened to this episode
with Yazzy, i'm going to gothrough a couple of the really
cool key points that I wrotedown.
This was an incredibly longpodcast.
It was actually somewherearound four hours.
We chopped it down to two.
Thanks for sticking around.
Some of that information wasjust way way too good to chop,

(02:06:48):
so I'm going to go through someof that.
One of the first things that Inoticed about Cruella this is
whenever I went, i was listeningto them and I love Cruella, but
I remember how intertwined intheir fan base they were.
You may love their music, but Ithink really what made them

(02:07:13):
huge is the connection that theyhad with their fans, and so I
mean Yazzy talked about how, inthe early days, they answered
every single message that theygot on social media.
Every single person felttouched by Cruella, and I think
that for artists today I know alot of you are doing that same
thing You are making sure tocomment and what not to people

(02:07:38):
who message you, but cultivatingthat very deep fan base of
people that really feel investedin you is what made Cruella be
able to stand this very longtest of time.
If they were to announce a showright now.
I guarantee you would sell out.
They have really dedicated fans, so great point there.

(02:07:59):
I really loved this sectionwhere Yazzy talked about early
on in Cruella.
She would walk around the blockwith her little her.
She had an iPod, that's what itwas And she would listen to
their demos and her headphonesjust walking around the street

(02:08:20):
and she would sing them and shewould see herself on stage
performing at massive, massiveshows And I really think that
the manifestation there of justcontinually feeling like they
were already larger than life,they were already doing what
they wanted, already singing thesongs that they're going to

(02:08:42):
perform Or Yazzy is going toperform I can't help but think
that that really, really helpedpush her to become that great.
That great artist Manifestationis just so important.
One really awesome point thatYazzy brought up that I have

(02:09:02):
talked about on other podcastsbefore is that she said that she
could not be where she iswithout a team.
She could not be where she iswithout Chris and Jahan and Jake
and Nathan and her otherteammates.
We are, if we're trying to playat the top level, you need

(02:09:26):
people around you that push youto be better, that push you to
go beyond your limits, thatbelieve in you, who don't just
see you as a monetary resource,but as something special that
they want to be a part of.
Ultimately, you can't do thesethings alone, finding people to

(02:09:48):
surround yourself who are goingto be core members of your team
because they're great at whatthey do And they also love you.
For you, that's so important.
If there are people surroundingyou who are leeches, who are
just trying to take money, whoare not trying to push you to be
the best version of yourself,who are not there for you, you

(02:10:10):
have to get rid of them to moveforward in the right direction.
Surround yourself with greatpeople.
And, last and not least for sure, is something I touched on at
the very beginning of thispodcast is to fail forward.
I talked about this on anotherpodcast as well, the crystal

(02:10:32):
method, one for sure where, ifyou just have analysis,
paralysis, which means you thinkthat you want to do X and you
continuously think about it, butyou never do it, you never move
forward.
If you want to become an artist, you have to put out music.
If you want to go on tour, youhave to play shows.

(02:10:52):
If you want to literallyanything, just fill in the blank
.
Whenever you want to dosomething, just do it.
You're going to fail.
You're going to continuouslyfail, but each failure you're
going to learn something thatyou can implement into the next
failure.
And I feel like there wasnothing that she said more

(02:11:14):
resonant with me than my podcast.
Right now, i have no idea whatI'm doing.
I love talking to people, ialways talk to people, but I've
never worked with a camera,really I've never done it in a
setting where there's lightingand whatnot.
But I'm here having greatconversations and I'm putting it
out and I'm putting as muchlove into it as I can.

(02:11:35):
So I'm certain that eventuallythis will catch on and each
season we're going to make thelighting better, we're going to
make the audio better, we'regoing to make things better.
But for now, i'm just puttingas much love into this as I can
and I'm getting it out there sothat I can see what I could do
better.
I hope that that really helpsyou maybe get out of a little

(02:12:00):
rut that you're in of notreleasing or not doing something
because it's so important.
The world wants to see yourcraft and your love, so give it
to him.
All right, catch you on thenext episode.
Thanks for listening to theGrounds for Success podcast.
I want to thank all of thepeople who work on this podcast
and help me out.
My team is everything to me,and without them I couldn't

(02:12:23):
bring these to you every singleweek.
I couldn't post on social mediawith all the clips that we have
, and so I thank you guys somuch.
I want to also thank all of myclients on the Mixing and
Mastering side, because withoutyou, i could not have Grounds
for Success.
So thank you so much.
If you love this content and youwant to keep on receiving it,

(02:12:44):
please follow, subscribe, likeon all of the platforms or
whichever platform you use.
I should probably say thatagain.
Let me try that again.
That was just like totallyfree-balled.
Let's go with the second one.
Maybe Or actually maybe you canjust like, edit it together.
But I want to say that lastpart again If you're enjoying

(02:13:12):
the Grounds for Success podcast,please follow, like and
subscribe on whichever platformyou are watching or listening on
.
It really helps us out and Iwant to keep on giving this
content to you and whichever waypossible.
Let me shorten that If you'reenjoying the Grounds for Success

(02:13:35):
podcast, if you're enjoying theGrounds for Success podcast.
Please follow, like andsubscribe on whichever platform
you're listening or watching on.
It helps us out a ton and Iwant to keep getting this
content to you in whichever wayyou listen or watch.

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