May 20, 2024 • 42 mins
When you think of a pastor, you might envision a life dedicated to sermons and Sunday services, but Michael King's story shatters that mold, revealing a world where entrepreneurial spirit and divine calling blend seamlessly. Venturing into the transformative narrative of a man who traded his pastoral robes for the thrills and challenges of entrepreneurship, we uncover the essence of true service. Michael opens up about his evolution from a spiritual leader to a beacon of innovation, showing us how the chords of music and the hymns of leadership harmonized, leading to a life where every note plays a part in a grander mission.
Navigating the complexities of leading a growing church community, our conversation shifts to the seldom-discussed trials behind the pulpit. We honor the unsung heroes of faith, like Michael, who endure the weight of expectations and isolation only to emerge with strength and wisdom. His candid reflection on the journey from band frontman to guiding a Nebraska congregation through exponential growth is a poignant reminder of the quiet resilience demanded of those at the helm of spiritual leadership.
Wrapping up our episode, we celebrate the symphony of skills that saw Michael rise from humble beginnings to shaping the future of corporate culture and music. With the powerful influence of team coaching, Michael demonstrates how fostering dreams and emotional intelligence can sculpt not just businesses, but also the souls within. As we anticipate the latest sonic adventures from his band, Names Without Numbers, we're left inspired by the belief that within each of us lies the capacity to lead, innovate, and uplift—regardless of where our journeys begin.
Learn more about Michael and his services at:
https://www.teams.coach/home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Grow,
where God reveals our way.
I'm Angelique Gibson, your host, and I can't wait to explore
the vast riches of God's wordwith you.
So don't forget to subscribeand stay tuned for upcoming
episodes packed with biblicalteachings, inspirational stories
and a fresh perspective on theworld around us.
Now let's get started on thisbeautiful journey.
(00:24):
May God bless you abundantly.
Hello, grow listeners, it'sgreat to be back with you today,
and boy do I have a specialguest with me.
Many of you know that I have theincredible privilege of being a
chief information officer inthe marketplace, leading lots of
people, and one thing that Ihave learned in my role in the
(00:47):
marketplace is that themarketplace is a hurting
hospital who needs a goodshepherd, a pastor, to come in
and really just help themnavigate the pitfalls, the hurts
and just the brokenness ofhumans and who.
We are at work.
You know we are at work, thesummation of the health of our
(01:10):
team, and so if we don't havehealthy teammates, well, guess
what?
We're not going to have ahealthy organization, and I have
the privilege of bringing on anincredible pastor.
From the start, transitionedinto crazy, awesome entrepreneur
, he is a sought after speakerand he is a great shepherd
(01:34):
pastor to many in themarketplace, but it's no other
than the Michael King.
Michael, welcome to the Growpodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thanks so much, Angela, for having me.
It's like, how do we follow itup?
I hardly agree with anythingyou just said, but I'm pretty
humbled by it.
So thanks for the intro.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, it's all true and you know, just to kind of get
the listeners grounded, and whatI what do I mean by you started
off as a pastor and you're nowthis crazy successful, awesome
entrepreneur.
Like, how does that happen?
Where did, where did you start?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Man, I mean, my journey goes, my, my journey
goes way back, is that, you know, like grew up in a musician's
home and you know it was kind oflike looking for love and all
the wrong places.
You know, ended up falling inlove with the children's
pastor's daughter at the localchurch and she ended up being my
girlfriend, for you know, themy only one that I was really
(02:30):
chasing down, like during myhigh school years, and they told
me that I could date theirdaughter as long as I showed up
to church on Sunday and I, andthen I found out like, oh, uh,
the church can actually use mymusical gifts and so, um, so I
went down that career path, notnecessarily knowing it was a
calling, but it was.
It was just, I was just tryingto find my tribe, trying to find
my place, you know, and um, andthen, somewhere in the middle
(02:53):
of that, I started to reallyexperience the miraculous, not
not just my life but also in thepeople, the lives of the people
that we were doing life with.
And um, and I love, I lovebeing a musician, uh, I love
being um, I love, I loveexploring my faith and just, you
know, again, growingconsistently in in my journey um
(03:14):
with Jesus, but um, but.
This has always been aboutpeople.
And um, you know, I remember oneof my one of my mentors early
on said to me it's like hey,mike, you know, like if you can
do, if you can do anything elsein your life besides be a pastor
, you probably should.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
You know, because I think even at the time, like you
know, like the church cultureis just so, so interesting in
that you, there are people thatchase, chase down pastoral roles
, Like people that grew up in achurch and they, like, they
desire to be the next StephenFurtick or they desire to be the
next you know whoever Right.
(03:55):
But what he's saying was, justlike you know what, like this is
a hard job, Like it's hard, alot of unreasonable expectations
being put on pastors.
And I think that you know, forme, um, I've always had a, I've
always had a just a heart forpeople and trying to figure out,
like how can I help people getto the best versions of
themselves?
I wasn't expecting theentrepreneurial journey.
(04:17):
I've always been a strong, I'vealways had a strong business
acumen, you know, I think frommy role in the music industry to
being involved in church.
But, yeah, at 2001, after I gotdone with Bible college and I
jumped full-time into pastoralministry, involved in the
Christian music industry.
Next thing, you know, it's likeyou know, I've been able to
(04:39):
travel a lot doing music,produced a lot of records
they're all on this wall here,you know and written hundreds
and hundreds of songs andthere's nothing, by the way,
like even in leadership and Ilove leadership but you want to
(05:00):
feel something, put the prayersof the church on their lips, you
know, like as a songwriter, andto be able to hear like, oh,
wow, this is, this is powerful,Something that I've written,
that people are saying andsinging loudly, that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
That is incredible.
You know, what I love aboutyour story, uh and I know we're
going to get more into it is yousay I love that.
You said there's so many peoplethat wake up and they dream
about being the next StephenFurtick, or you know, fill in
the blank, it could be BillyGraham right.
I think he's probably had oneof the biggest reaches of all
(05:39):
evangelicals out there.
But we get this idea of what itmeans to serve the Lord and
sometimes the vision of it canget really big.
And you know, I look at yourtestimony as one that has been
faithful to the Lord, where hekept increasing and increasing
and increasing.
I mean he took you what peopletraditionally call ministry.
(06:03):
I have the viewpoint thatministry is anyone who comes
into your house, or if you go tothe supermarket and you run
into a stranger and you start agood, robust conversation with
them and you end up praying overthem, or the people you're at
work with.
So ministry doesn't know wallsand it doesn't know a building.
The church is God's peopletogether, working together and,
(06:23):
yes, there's structure of church.
You know where we go and doofficial community et cetera,
but ministry is doing God's workperiod.
Although I say, god took you, inour worldly view of what
ministry is, straight to the top.
I mean you were leading a megachurch just doing his work and
(06:47):
you know sometimes, like yousaid, pastor, work is the hard
work and you can burn both endsof the candlestick and
expectations can get a littleout of balance, if you will.
That journey, because I thinkit's pivotal, crucial for the
listeners who may not know yourstory to understand where you
(07:09):
were at.
Where then you pivoted intoyour entrepreneurial spirit.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, I was man.
If there's one thing I can say,it's, like you know, linking
onto these words of of lonelyand hard um and compromise like
this.
You know this, this story haseverything.
You know, it's kind of one ofthose things to where you can
almost like sum this up intosomething that could be like a,
(07:37):
you know, a made for TV type ofmovie as far as, like how it
affected my family, thedecisions that we had made.
But yeah, we were.
We were executive pastors atone of the fastest growing
churches in America and therefor close to a decade and moving
, and we loved the journey rightaway.
(07:58):
But we knew that maybe theremight not have necessarily been
an alignment from day one,because when we moved here we
weren't.
I don't know necessarily if wewere supposed to move here from
the very beginning, at leastaccording to our plans.
You know we had so all the wayback 2005, 2006,.
We had just signed a new recorddeal, the band that I was
fronting, and I needed to find achurch that was willing to
(08:19):
allow me to be like kind ofartists in residence, and so, um
, so we ended up at this churchhere in Nebraska and um, and
then fast, like as soon as wegot here, we were given a lot of
authority to change anythingthat we needed to, because the
church wasn't big at the timeLike it was.
It was maybe 200, 300 people,and so it was kind of a
refurbishing type of type ofwork and, um, and so the worship
(08:46):
department grew fast and itwasn't.
It was a lot of a lot ofturbulence.
Um, we had to make a lot ofstrategic changes and culture
changes and mission, vision,value clarifying, like who are
we, why are we doing what we'redoing?
And so in the middle of allthat, guess what I get?
You know, god was developing myleadership chops, like you know
, and in showing me what I couldlove about building people and
(09:09):
building organizations and allthis stuff.
So I'm nerding out over allthis because the things that we
were doing were working.
Our church went from 300 toprobably 1,500 or 1,600 within a
couple of years.
It's amazing, yeah, and so wewould end eventually get to
close to 3000 during the timethat I was there, and when you
(09:31):
are in that pressure cooker, butalso experiencing that type of
thing in the Midwest and we'renot talking like Bible belt
stuff here you know, like thosenumbers like are probably a
little bit more common if you'rein Dallas, texas, but in in the
heartland of Nebraska Are youkidding me?
(09:51):
No, like, like somethingsignificant was going on and I
don't want to take the creditaway from that and it had
nothing.
You know, like, I'm thankfulthat I experienced and I
experienced success at theleadership level.
At the leadership level, like Ihad over a thousand people in
my leadership pipeline, I hadover 300 people in just in my
worship department alone.
Like we were making records andwriting a lot, lots of songs and
(10:11):
I loved it, um, but there wassomething special there's life
transformation happening in thehearts of the people that were
going there and um, but in themeantime, like I, you know, we,
uh, it got lonely and it gotfrustrating, it got hard, um and
uh, I had a lot ofresponsibility without not a lot
(10:31):
of authority in the structurethat I was in, and so, um, the
next thing you knew it's likeokay, um, I ended up in an
unhealthy, unhealthy space, hadto make some changes pretty fast
to to, to leave and abandon,and I went from having
everything to losing pretty mucheverything.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That is absolutely incredible in the sense not that
it felt good to you, butincredible when you think about
the amount of loss.
Like, not a lot of people canhandle that and then get to a
place where they can kind ofreinvent themselves.
And I just want to marinate onthis for a little bit, because
(11:08):
some things that I'veexperienced in my own personal
walk with Christ is that youknow I did I was a person in the
congregation who had very highexpectations on the leadership
in the church and forgettingthat the church leadership are
human, just like I'm a human,and we start to put people on
(11:31):
pedestals and we expectperfection and that's just not
sustainable.
And so sometimes people in thechurch won't stop, pause and
have hard conversations withleadership.
If they're frustrated, they'lljust walk out and leave and
sweat off their back.
And God has really shown me ifI have any issue, source of
(11:54):
conflict, just like if I'm atwork, I would sit down and have
a conversation that matters withsomeone.
I need to do the same thing withthe people that I'm doing quote
unquote church with includingthe church leadership, and then
on the other side of that coin,there's real hurt and pain that
leaders are walking around withthat need to be understood
(12:17):
especially, you know, if wecan't have a heart and
compassion for our leadership inchurch, that means that there
could be, you know.
Obviously the opportunity forthe enemy gets in there is
wreaking havoc, and who's theshepherd to the shepherd right?
And so it's important for us ashumans to know that we all need
shepherding, and I had recentlygone through this now twice in
(12:40):
the last seven years, where Ihave seen two senior pastors
that I love get to a place wherethey're in almost a burnout
situation based on theexpectations that are put on
them and the environment reallydoesn't support success, and so
then, all of a sudden, they'remaking a life change to leave
(13:00):
and, like you said, everything'staken away from them.
And I just want to like what Iexperienced with these two
people that I love dearly is thefriends that were their friends
today.
It was like a ghost town.
Day two and it was almost likethe love and the adoration that
you cared for one day was justgone in a second, and I think
(13:24):
some people stay away becausemaybe they don't know what to
say or it's awkward for them,but really they don't understand
the need of the person who isno longer in the role that
they're in.
That's the time where they needtheir community and their
church body more and it grievesmy heart that you had to walk
(13:49):
through that, your family had towalk through that and I'm sorry
on behalf of the body of Christ.
That's not how we do lifetogether right, and I'm also
grateful your story has anotherside to it that you're walking
through now.
We're going to get to that, butyou know, thank you for your
(14:09):
service and leadership in thechurch and thank you for the
grit that you have to kind ofwalk through that pain that you
you experienced.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh man, um, no need to apologize, um and and and.
Thank you for you know, justfor your kindness.
You know we don't.
I don't even really necessarilyknow how to say all this, but I
would say this is that we wantto talk more about how people
(14:38):
leave the church rather thantalking about why they leave the
church, especially when peoplein ministry and hear me on this,
I'm not innocent.
I made some compromising choices, and do I regret them?
I regret hurting people alongthe way.
I don't regret my journey atall and you know, like I knew a
(15:02):
long time ago that there was amisalignment.
I knew like there was somethingin my gut that was telling me
like, hey, god's got a purposefor you, but you're in the wrong
place at the wrong time withthe wrong people.
This is not your thing, but thething was is I didn't leave
because I didn't know what elseI could do and and because I was
so entrenched in everything.
And here's the thing.
Is that what people don'trealize, that when you are a
(15:24):
pastor, you kind of have all ofyour worlds, your sustainable
sustenance, all in one singularspot, you know.
So you're getting yourspiritual needs from one place,
you're getting your relationalneeds.
You're getting your financeneeds Like everything is
connected to like one singleyour thing, and so, like you
(15:45):
take one brick out of that wall,the whole thing falls down.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Wow, you know strong perspective.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah and so, but it's a recipe for disaster.
And so it's like, like you said, like who is the pastors to the
pastor and and so so withinthat.
But so when somebody does leave, you're right, day two, dude,
it's a freaking ghost town likethere is.
There's nobody around and we're, you know we're living in a
town that's not massively huge,you know it's 300,000 people on
(16:12):
game day.
You know Lincoln, lincoln,nebraska, home of the
Cornhuskers, go right, um, but,and so everybody's kind of like
one step connected fromeverybody.
And so like when, when you leaveand it's a public thing well,
everybody in town kind of knowssomething went down, and so they
want to talk about how you left, but nobody wants to talk about
(16:36):
why you left.
And so here's like the onething that I would say this, and
if there's one thing about thebody of Christ that I would say,
cause I even had a like, acomplete, I had a discovery call
with a pastor that had to leaveministry, this, that earlier
this week, and he lost, he'slike literally he's lost
everything, trying to figure outhow to reinvent himself.
But when you talk about whypeople leave ministry, if you're
(16:59):
currently serving in leadershipin a church and if you see, and
if you're a member of a churchand you see a member of a church
team being treated unfairly, ifyou see them being verbally,
spiritually, emotionally orpsychologically abused and you
choose to still support thatorganization, they're not wrong.
You are.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Choose to not say something, and I think that that
was probably one of the thingsthat we had to come to grips
with a little bit.
Because I mean, like I mean,because, keep in mind, like we,
we went from feeling like we hadthousands of friends on day one
to having nobody on day two,almost lost our marriage, didn't
know where our next paycheckwas going to come from.
You know, I ended up like goingand working at a car dealership
(17:43):
for, you know, a year and ahalf while I finished up my
master's degrees and startedcoaching like individual clients
on the side, because my abilityto dream and see bigger than
what I was experiencing was socompressed.
It was like the whole world likejust crashing down on me and
you know I didn't reallynecessarily have a lot of people
around me to hold my arms up,so um so.
(18:04):
But when you kind of likelooking back and the things that
I've had to process through,it's like I've learned to be a
little bit more honest with mystory as far as saying, hey,
listen, yep, I've owned my crap.
but let's talk about, let's talkabout the bigger story here.
Um, because it's been, you know, like seven years plus now, so
we're in a different place, butbut still as you, because we're
(18:26):
still here in the area every nowand then it's like we bump into
people that we used to callourselves best friends with them
and we go.
You kind of knew what was goingon, but you didn't call.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You know, that's hard .
Speaker 2 (18:42):
That's a hard one to swallow.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It is incredibly difficult and what I hope you
know I'm certainly taking away,and I hope the listeners are
taking away is don't shy awayLike conflict, is that we're on
this side of heaven, right, andso it doesn't matter.
I love, Michael, that you saidlisten, I didn't get it perfect.
I hurt people along the way.
(19:08):
It's the one thing I wish Icould do over, but I don't take
my journey.
I wouldn't, you know, take myjourney away.
We have to be in there together.
You know God says it's one ofmy favorite life verses, john 17
, his prayer before he goes tothe cross Father, as you are in
me and I are in you, let them bein me and I in them, I in them.
(19:28):
So the world will believe inthe consequences of us not truly
living it out in love.
And you know, when we're goneon day two, that's certainly not
a demonstration of love, thatis the consequence People just
don't believe us.
So here we carry this mantlethat Christ is the answer and we
(19:48):
can't even be Christ to our ownbody.
And that's just what grieves meso much about your story.
And I know you're seven yearsout of it and yet, like you said
, just this week you got a phonecall.
This is happening to peoplearound the world and so and I
think God is shaking a lot rightnow in this season, so there's
(20:11):
going to continuing to beshaking.
But even when things areshaking like, god wants his body
to support each other.
You know, through correction,through repentance, through
forgiveness, through it allright, we're to be there to lift
the hands up when we can't liftour own arms up.
So thank you for your courage toeven share the testimony,
(20:33):
because I got to be honest withyou.
I know a lot of people who havehad similar stories and they
won't even talk about it.
They're almost like, scared totalk about it.
So I think it's courageous thatyou talk about it.
You've walked a path of healingand forgiveness.
And what was the pivotal point?
Because I really want to get towhat you're doing now, because
it's incredible what you'redoing right now what was the
(20:56):
pivotal point or season in lifewhere you got you know the aha
moment, if you got one to sayyou know what?
There is something even biggerfor you.
You thought you were achievingbig and your world was getting
bigger, but God had even morefor you.
You thought you were achievingbig, and your world was getting
bigger, but God had even morefor you.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, I mean, I'd spent so much of my even time
leading up to being in pastoralministry of feeling like maybe
the Because my dad wasaprofessional musician.
So therefore I'm like I want tobe a professional musician like
my dad and all that stuff.
But and I love that but I mynatural knack when it came to
(21:38):
like building teams, inspiringteams and inspiring leaders and
coaching leaders.
I've just always had thispastoral heart about of like
really just making sure that, nomatter what, that I'm willing
to fight to make sure thatsomebody ends up being the best
version of themselves.
I want to see them win.
I want to make sure they havethe right tools, systems and
strategies in their place, andso that's just always been me,
(22:00):
no matter what it's like.
Even even when I went and Istarted working at the car
dealership, I quickly I quicklyascended into into corporate
leadership, like being in chargeof their.
You know, here I'm like workingwith a Toyota brand and I'm
like working with Toyota leadersto develop a leadership
pipeline for one of the region'sbiggest, you know.
(22:20):
I love that this leadershipthing and I was already going
back to school and um, but thenI started to go, you know, just,
you know one thing afteranother, working with uh, you
(22:42):
know, aveda beauty salons andhelping them, helping develop a,
um, you know, a guestexperience certification program
.
And then the next thing, youknow, it's like I'm getting
asked to speak at these eventsand bigger events, working with
fortune companies starting to.
It's like it was just like thisthing snowballed and with this
idea of our teams, you know,methodology around our business
just kind of started a freighttrain that we couldn't really
(23:05):
necessarily stop and so, um, soI think that that's where, like,
sometimes the blinker goes offand it actually forces you to
realize that there's a biggerdream.
Sometimes the blinker goes offand it actually forces you to
realize that there's a biggerdream that you're not willing to
look at.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And and that, and that's, for me, is like I've
always felt like maybe, like Iwas built for something
different.
There's things that I know howto do, that I have no idea why I
know how to do them.
You know, even even as I end upon stages and speaking, and
things like this there's.
There's at times, like when itcomes to me sharing stories of
these ridiculous things thatI've been able to be a part of
and having no idea how I wasable to get there in the first
(23:41):
place, but I know that it allmakes sense, like it just it
just does, and so.
So that's kind of where youknow.
So, between 2017 and today, youknow we have coached with some
of the biggest organizations inthe world.
I've worked with leaders thathave been with Pfizer, with ADP,
with Disney, with even Ducati.
(24:03):
I got to meet with some peoplewith them last week, and I think
it is again.
It's just like the first thingthat disappears when you're
going through a season offailure is your ability to dream
.
The first thing, like you caneven think about that as a
person, it's like, okay, what'syou know?
You start going through a roughtime.
There's no money in the bank,um, people are frustrated with
(24:23):
you.
You don't know who to call.
You're not going to call theghostbusters, but um, but anyway
.
So, um, yeah, anyways, um, butanyway, so, um, yeah, anyways.
That's so stupid.
Um, but your, your ability todream, is the first thing that
goes Um and so.
But once you start to see theflicker of hope, hope's an
engine, you know, and leaning onthose things as far as like,
(24:46):
how are you built?
Are you in the right space?
Are you surrounding yourselfwith the right people?
Like here's the thing that Ilove is I embrace this too late
in my life is that you are thesum average of the five loudest
voices in your life.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's, that's good.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
And I thought that I had to accept the hand that was
dealt to me.
through my whole life I grew upthrough abuse as a kid and my
mom and my dad weren't reallynecessarily around that much Um
and so, and then getting intolike adult life and just going
okay, this is mother hand, thatI'm dealt, I got to live with it
.
No, if you want to be a betterdad, you surround yourself with
better dads.
(25:20):
If you want to be a better youknow business person,
entrepreneur, surround yourselfwith people that dream bigger
than what you think is possible.
And that's what I did.
And you know, beyond school,you know so I went back to
master's degrees in executivecoaching and organizational
leadership and then I just 100%,irrefutably serve my clients,
(25:42):
even like today, like, forexample, like I wake up every
day and I challenged myself.
I have the same type of textmessage that I send out to
people that are just on a randomlist and and so it just
basically says says this hey,thinking of you today, just
wanted to cheer you on, pleaselet me know if there's a way
that I can serve you today, loveyou.
And I just send it.
(26:03):
And you know, like I get thistext message back from this guy
that was part of a constructioncompany that I met like four
years ago and he was like dude,that text message today.
That's how you served me.
He goes just you showing up andreminding me that I'm here to
bring the best out in my clientsmeans the world to me, so
thanks.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's the simple things right.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, you know, what I love about it is, uh, the.
What I see you're doing istruly discipling the marketplace
.
I mean you're coming in andyou're giving people and you're
see you're doing is trulydiscipling the marketplace.
I mean you're coming in andyou're giving people and your
company tell us what your it's.
Teams Coach.
So is it Teams Coach, and Ilove your tagline, or it's kind
(26:47):
of a mission statement too, butwill you tell me, is it a
mission statement or a tagline?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
no-transcript um, we, um, I'm sorry I'm getting
getting back from being sick,but um, well, the the story with
, with, with teams, that coachwas that that wasn't necessarily
going to be the name of mycompany.
I mean, we were looking atsomething of like and my dream
is big.
My dream has always been big,um of like going okay, like
(27:22):
Patrick Lencioni, I would loveto hang out with that guy, you
know what I mean.
It's like he's got the tablegroup we got to come up with
some sort of like cool, coolbranded name to go after.
Maybe we'll go after thearmchair collective, you know,
or something like that.
Um, but it really came down toour methodology of coaching, you
(27:43):
know.
So it was like so, teams isactually an acronym, so team.
So the five things that we seethat every single successful
organization does that aremoving things forward.
Number one clearly identifytargets.
You know, they know they'rebullseye.
If you can't measure it, itdoesn't count.
Number two engagement.
Three different levels ofengagement that every single
leader thinks about.
How am I, how am I leading mymyself?
(28:10):
Engagement point Number one.
Two how am I engaging with myteam?
Engagement point number numbertwo.
Engagement point number threehow am I engaging with my
audience?
Do they know my why and am Icreating a feeling that will
never let them forget me?
So powerful, right?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So powerful.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
A action steps, you know, clear action steps.
That ties back to our originaltarget that we talked about in
the first place.
Nobody likes to be sent out onfool's errands Nobody.
You know.
83% of people in the workforceclaim that they get asked to do
things every single day thatdon't make sense according to
the mission, vision and valuesof their company.
83% that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Come on, it is.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You know, momentum is the M, you know.
So it's not about more we canadd to the plate.
It's about what can we takeaway to help us go faster.
And then synergy, you know,again, celebrating the wins.
What are we doing to make surethat we're we're breeding good
collaboration on our teams andempowering leaders in the right
spaces and and making sure thatpeople on our team know that we
care about them and love them,and so that's the team's
(29:08):
methodology.
But on the technology side of itis that we are committed 100%
to being the most sought afterand the highest level of
innovative leader within thecoaching space, and so when you
get involved in us, we makecoaching super stinking cool and
super stinking easy.
We have integrations that takeabout 20 minutes.
(29:29):
That's going to give you ablueprint of your team to let
you know what your reasonableexpectations can be and what's
the ecosystem and thetemperament and the motivations
of the people that are on yourteam.
But then we have our coachingapp as well that does nudges
every single day, based on yourgoals and based on who you are.
Have our coaching app as wellthat does nudges every single
day, based on your goals andbased on who you are, and so we
wanted to.
(29:49):
We wanted to solve the problemof this is that a lot of times
people don't do coaching becauseit becomes incredibly expensive
to do full plan integration forfull companies.
So we took care of that problem.
We figured out ways to be tohelp technology be our friend on
that, but then also to makecoaching actionable and simple
for C-level leaders who don'thave time to feel like they have
(30:11):
to invest hours upon hoursdoing homework.
And no, we figured it out, wecracked the code on that.
So that's been important to us.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah.
So what's really attractive isyou can really learn.
I have this motto about youcan't really lead people you
don't know, and so you haveframeworks in place that you can
learn through who your peopleare, what they care about,
various assessments that peoplecan take that you can have.
You know just different nuggetsof information about them and
(30:41):
you start to formulate a bigger,wider view of who your teammate
and team is collectively, andit puts it all in a one-stop
shop place to go and you takethat information and you can
start to create meaningfulinteractions and then, following
your team's framework, it'sreally the end-to-end package.
(31:03):
What I find is, in coaching ingeneral, you have to go to
multiple sources to get varioustypes of coaching, and this is
it's almost like you have solvedthe problem where some coaches
work on who I am as a humanbeing and what do I need to do
to continue to be the betterversion of myself as a leader, a
(31:25):
contributor on a team, etcetera, and then but it's very
much disconnected from thetangible execution of the
business when am I going?
What are the actions that Ineed to take?
But being inspired and who do Iwant to be, what's that essence
, the imprint that I want toleave behind.
I love that on the engagementside, it's just really the 360
(31:50):
view of taking team performanceto the next level.
So I encourage everyone who'slistening.
It doesn't matter where you'releading a team.
You need to check this outbecause it truly is a set apart
approach to coaching.
What else would you add on that, michael?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
with some exciting things.
I mean, I think the just goingback to like, okay, why did?
Why do people reach out tocoaches in the first place?
Um, they're.
They're either relationally or,you know, just like culture,
wise.
Things are either falling apartand it just feels gross and
everybody knows um, or they'retrying to achieve, um,
scalability, or achieve newlevels of top line revenue
(32:36):
production that, um, that theycan't reach on their own.
And and you, and to be honestwith you, great leaders have
great coaches.
This should not be a weirdconversation for people If you
haven't explored executivecoaching.
Um, great leaders have greatcoaches.
This should not be a weirdconversation for people if you
haven't explored executivecoaching, because great leaders
have great coaches.
I promise you.
Look at some of the bestcompanies out there.
Almost every single person hasadvisors or coaches.
What makes it hard about thisis that I will say this the word
(32:57):
of warning on this is that doyour research and find somebody
who is certified and somebodywho's actually legitimate post
COVID.
I tell you what, in anunregulated field, this has been
, this has been crazy the levelof people that are just they're
putting out digital programsthat have been created by AI,
but because they're really goodat sales.
They're making a lot of moneyoff of people and kind of
(33:19):
bringing some credibility issuesto the coaching field.
So that's all I'm going to sayabout that.
But, but the but, the motivationbehind why like, like, like.
Take, for example, when peoplereach out to us that are looking
to increase their top linerevenue.
We just signed a new clienttoday of another fortune 500
company.
They came on board today, got atext message last night from
the CFO and he says howconfident are you that you're
(33:41):
going to help us increase ourtop line revenue?
I'm like, oh man, what ahorrible question to ask in the
11th hour.
I don't want to answer thatquestion, you know, like.
So I sent it over to one of myteam members and the team and
she was so brilliant with howshe responded.
She said here's the stats, justsend him these.
And so what the text messagehas said was 89% of 89% of all
(34:07):
of our clients report reportrevenue increases within the
first two months of theircoaching experience and 93% of
our clients report that they'venever actually had to pay for
their coaching because their topline revenue exceeded what
their goals were.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
So it's like your motivation might be to fix your
revenue.
I promise you your revenue isnot your issue.
It's it's structure, it'svision, it's mission, it's value
, it's clarity.
When you're able to kind of getall the things working in the
right direction, it's so funwhen you eventually go hey,
we're not talking about revenueanymore, Right.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Amen, Amen, Amen.
It's hard work too.
A lot of things that once you,even if you have a strong
mission, vision and mission andyou know exactly where you're
going, if you don't have healthypeople on that team, you're not
going far.
I mean, what takes a healthyteam, you know, a day to do?
It could take you a month to do.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
And so structure issues.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yes, and so one thing that I'm I mean I'm in
technology, I build software fora living.
So one of the things that wealways have to be aware of it's
not just about the you know whatwe're putting into production,
but it's about, you know,putting into the marketplace to
sell.
It's about speed, because wehave to be highly innovative.
(35:31):
Speed is everything, and sowe're constantly looking at
what's the friction in theorganization and how can we go
faster.
And so everything that you'retalking about across that
spectrum, that is exactly spoton where healthy companies who
are doing what you're talkingabout.
That's why they're exceedingthe competitors who aren't doing
(35:51):
it.
And as far as coaching goes, Ilove that you said every good
company has coaches.
Just look at it.
Every good team has coaches.
Every good sports team has acoach.
Try looking at a.
Could you imagine if there wasno coaches in basketball?
We're in March Madness rightnow.
Could you imagine if there's nocoaches, you don't have a team.
Um, you don't have coaches infootball.
(36:13):
There's no Superbowl, like.
Just think about everywhereelse in the world where it's a
team sport, we have coaches, andto think that we don't need
them in the marketplace is kindof backwards.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, and you know so , and I think that even when so
I have two coaches myself andyou know you shouldn't work with
a coach that doesn't have acoach you know it's like one of
those weird things, to whereit's, you know it's karma,
things will always come back,type of thing, but you have to
lead by example on this.
But but that's what this is sofun is that when you embrace
(36:51):
teachability, when you embrace,um, expanding your, your, your
role as the chief visionaryofficer of an organization or or
somebody that's responsible forculture, um, things get
incredibly fun when you getaddicted to growing and then
when you know how to become thechief strategy officer for your
(37:11):
organization, that youunderstand how to.
Okay, let's clarify the vision,but then let's make sure that
these three orbs of our system,strategies and structures
absolutely make sense andthey're in alignment with the
thing that we care about themost about, you know.
And lastly, I would say this isthat EQ will be one of the most
important things that we talkabout in leadership for the next
decade at least.
We're having this grandawakening right now within our
(37:32):
organizations to where that'swhy we have all these different
agenda type things that arepopping up, of going oh man,
maybe we should care aboutdiversity, maybe we should care
about equality, maybe we shouldcare about empowerment.
Well, it's not because we, youknow, it's not because those are
new ideas.
It's because we're being awokento the idea that maybe we
haven't really given thosethings priority in the past.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Amen, well said, let me ask you a different question
what's on the horizon for music?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Um, that's, that's an interesting comment.
So our question so, um, so wehave some new, some new music
coming out later this year, soI'm excited about that.
Um, and I think that that's thething is, you know, my goal
right now is to release newsingles, probably, you know,
once a quarter, uh, for the nextyear, uh, maybe a year and a
(38:22):
half, but just to kind of primethat songwriting engine again.
So you know, so every week I'mworking with different artists
as a producer.
I have a have a.
There's a band called nameswithout numbers.
You got to check them out.
They're brilliant, but justthey have a new project coming
out that we produced on, and socollaborative spaces and working
with the right artists continueto just kind of stretch that
(38:43):
muscle as well.
That's so good.
I'm definitely going to checkit out.
Names without numbers, did yousay?
Yeah, they were.
They started about 20 years agoand now they had a resurgence,
which they're bigger than ever.
But that names without numbersyou can definitely tell they're
kind of like an emo rock band bythat name, Talking about sassy
names of that number.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You remember that back in the nineties and the
early two thousands, like therewas always a band name that had
numbers in it, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Exactly.
That's funny.
Um, okay, so my last.
I have two more questions.
My next question is uh, you maybe working on a book that we're
all going to pray intoexistence.
We're joining you.
What is this book?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, so Dreaming Through Failure is the first one
that's coming up, and thefollow-up to that is a book
called the Unstuck andUnstoppable Team, and so both of
these are keynotes right now.
So, if you catch me at aleadership conference or if you
want me to book me as a speaker,I can send you out the teaser
trailers.
As far as, like what you getwith those keynote packages um,
(39:48):
hearing me speak but yeah, Idecided to turn, turn both of
them into into books.
Um, because number one, thedreaming through failure that is
my story, you know, and that's,but that's the thing is that
that's your story too is that weall get to this place, to where
the first thing to go whenwe're experienced failure, loss,
(40:08):
et cetera, is our ability to beable to see bigger, to see a
dream, and so my personaljourney is even though there's
there's some pain in there uh,for me to be able to see bigger
than I ever have before, todream bigger than I ever have
before.
Right now, um, it's so powerfuland good.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's so incredible and we all need it because, to
your point, we all get to theend of ourself and then God is,
you know, rebirthing to where hewants us next.
So I love that, so definitelypraying it in with you, and I
can't wait for it to bepublished.
And then I want you to leave uswith what is your anchor
scripture that you just turnedto, and it just gives peace to
(40:47):
your heart yeah, so uh, for I'mcrucified with christ.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
No longer I live, but christ who lives in me.
That's my go-to amen.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
And that wraps it up.
Michael, would you do us thehonor of praying us out?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
yeah, thanks, uh, jesus, just pray that, um, you
take these words, take the heartof this, this podcast, and that
it reached the right listenerstoday.
God, more importantly, forthose that are listening, god,
we pray that you'd remind usthat hope is an engine and that
you have great things in mindfor those who love you, that
you've already ordained thosesteps.
It's not things that we need tochase down, but just things
(41:19):
that we can open our hearts to.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Amen.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of Grow, where God
reveals our way.
We hope you found inspiration,wisdom and encouragement as we
continue on this faith-filledjourney together.
We invite you to subscribe toGrow so you never miss an
episode.
Stay tuned for more biblicalteachings, heartfelt testimonies
and insights that will nourishyour spirit and deepen your
(41:44):
relationship with God.
We appreciate your support andparticipation in this podcast.
Until next time, may you growin faith, love and knowledge of
His divine plan.
May God bless you abundantly.
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Grow,
where God reveals our way.
I'm Angelique Gibson, your host, and I can't wait to explore
the vast riches of God's wordwith you.
So don't forget to subscribeand stay tuned for upcoming
episodes packed with biblicalteachings, inspirational stories
and a fresh perspective on theworld around us.
Now let's get started on thisbeautiful journey.
(00:24):
May God bless you abundantly.
Hello, grow listeners, it'sgreat to be back with you today,
and boy do I have a specialguest with me.
Many of you know that I have theincredible privilege of being a
chief information officer inthe marketplace, leading lots of
people, and one thing that Ihave learned in my role in the
(00:47):
marketplace is that themarketplace is a hurting
hospital who needs a goodshepherd, a pastor, to come in
and really just help themnavigate the pitfalls, the hurts
and just the brokenness ofhumans and who.
We are at work.
You know we are at work, thesummation of the health of our
(01:10):
team, and so if we don't havehealthy teammates, well, guess
what?
We're not going to have ahealthy organization, and I have
the privilege of bringing on anincredible pastor.
From the start, transitionedinto crazy, awesome entrepreneur
, he is a sought after speakerand he is a great shepherd
(01:34):
pastor to many in themarketplace, but it's no other
than the Michael King.
Michael, welcome to the Growpodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thanks so much, Angela, for having me.
It's like, how do we follow itup?
I hardly agree with anythingyou just said, but I'm pretty
humbled by it.
So thanks for the intro.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, it's all true and you know, just to kind of get
the listeners grounded, and whatI what do I mean by you started
off as a pastor and you're nowthis crazy successful, awesome
entrepreneur.
Like, how does that happen?
Where did, where did you start?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Man, I mean, my journey goes, my, my journey
goes way back, is that, you know, like grew up in a musician's
home and you know it was kind oflike looking for love and all
the wrong places.
You know, ended up falling inlove with the children's
pastor's daughter at the localchurch and she ended up being my
girlfriend, for you know, themy only one that I was really
(02:30):
chasing down, like during myhigh school years, and they told
me that I could date theirdaughter as long as I showed up
to church on Sunday and I, andthen I found out like, oh, uh,
the church can actually use mymusical gifts and so, um, so I
went down that career path, notnecessarily knowing it was a
calling, but it was.
It was just, I was just tryingto find my tribe, trying to find
my place, you know, and um, andthen, somewhere in the middle
(02:53):
of that, I started to reallyexperience the miraculous, not
not just my life but also in thepeople, the lives of the people
that we were doing life with.
And um, and I love, I lovebeing a musician, uh, I love
being um, I love, I loveexploring my faith and just, you
know, again, growingconsistently in in my journey um
(03:14):
with Jesus, but um, but.
This has always been aboutpeople.
And um, you know, I remember oneof my one of my mentors early
on said to me it's like hey,mike, you know, like if you can
do, if you can do anything elsein your life besides be a pastor
, you probably should.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
You know, because I think even at the time, like you
know, like the church cultureis just so, so interesting in
that you, there are people thatchase, chase down pastoral roles
, Like people that grew up in achurch and they, like, they
desire to be the next StephenFurtick or they desire to be the
next you know whoever Right.
(03:55):
But what he's saying was, justlike you know what, like this is
a hard job, Like it's hard, alot of unreasonable expectations
being put on pastors.
And I think that you know, forme, um, I've always had a, I've
always had a just a heart forpeople and trying to figure out,
like how can I help people getto the best versions of
themselves?
I wasn't expecting theentrepreneurial journey.
(04:17):
I've always been a strong, I'vealways had a strong business
acumen, you know, I think frommy role in the music industry to
being involved in church.
But, yeah, at 2001, after I gotdone with Bible college and I
jumped full-time into pastoralministry, involved in the
Christian music industry.
Next thing, you know, it's likeyou know, I've been able to
(04:39):
travel a lot doing music,produced a lot of records
they're all on this wall here,you know and written hundreds
and hundreds of songs andthere's nothing, by the way,
like even in leadership and Ilove leadership but you want to
(05:00):
feel something, put the prayersof the church on their lips, you
know, like as a songwriter, andto be able to hear like, oh,
wow, this is, this is powerful,Something that I've written,
that people are saying andsinging loudly, that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
That is incredible.
You know, what I love aboutyour story, uh and I know we're
going to get more into it is yousay I love that.
You said there's so many peoplethat wake up and they dream
about being the next StephenFurtick, or you know, fill in
the blank, it could be BillyGraham right.
I think he's probably had oneof the biggest reaches of all
(05:39):
evangelicals out there.
But we get this idea of what itmeans to serve the Lord and
sometimes the vision of it canget really big.
And you know, I look at yourtestimony as one that has been
faithful to the Lord, where hekept increasing and increasing
and increasing.
I mean he took you what peopletraditionally call ministry.
(06:03):
I have the viewpoint thatministry is anyone who comes
into your house, or if you go tothe supermarket and you run
into a stranger and you start agood, robust conversation with
them and you end up praying overthem, or the people you're at
work with.
So ministry doesn't know wallsand it doesn't know a building.
The church is God's peopletogether, working together and,
(06:23):
yes, there's structure of church.
You know where we go and doofficial community et cetera,
but ministry is doing God's workperiod.
Although I say, god took you, inour worldly view of what
ministry is, straight to the top.
I mean you were leading a megachurch just doing his work and
(06:47):
you know sometimes, like yousaid, pastor, work is the hard
work and you can burn both endsof the candlestick and
expectations can get a littleout of balance, if you will.
That journey, because I thinkit's pivotal, crucial for the
listeners who may not know yourstory to understand where you
(07:09):
were at.
Where then you pivoted intoyour entrepreneurial spirit.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, I was man.
If there's one thing I can say,it's, like you know, linking
onto these words of of lonelyand hard um and compromise like
this.
You know this, this story haseverything.
You know, it's kind of one ofthose things to where you can
almost like sum this up intosomething that could be like a,
(07:37):
you know, a made for TV type ofmovie as far as, like how it
affected my family, thedecisions that we had made.
But yeah, we were.
We were executive pastors atone of the fastest growing
churches in America and therefor close to a decade and moving
, and we loved the journey rightaway.
(07:58):
But we knew that maybe theremight not have necessarily been
an alignment from day one,because when we moved here we
weren't.
I don't know necessarily if wewere supposed to move here from
the very beginning, at leastaccording to our plans.
You know we had so all the wayback 2005, 2006,.
We had just signed a new recorddeal, the band that I was
fronting, and I needed to find achurch that was willing to
(08:19):
allow me to be like kind ofartists in residence, and so, um
, so we ended up at this churchhere in Nebraska and um, and
then fast, like as soon as wegot here, we were given a lot of
authority to change anythingthat we needed to, because the
church wasn't big at the timeLike it was.
It was maybe 200, 300 people,and so it was kind of a
refurbishing type of type ofwork and, um, and so the worship
(08:46):
department grew fast and itwasn't.
It was a lot of a lot ofturbulence.
Um, we had to make a lot ofstrategic changes and culture
changes and mission, vision,value clarifying, like who are
we, why are we doing what we'redoing?
And so in the middle of allthat, guess what I get?
You know, god was developing myleadership chops, like you know
, and in showing me what I couldlove about building people and
(09:09):
building organizations and allthis stuff.
So I'm nerding out over allthis because the things that we
were doing were working.
Our church went from 300 toprobably 1,500 or 1,600 within a
couple of years.
It's amazing, yeah, and so wewould end eventually get to
close to 3000 during the timethat I was there, and when you
(09:31):
are in that pressure cooker, butalso experiencing that type of
thing in the Midwest and we'renot talking like Bible belt
stuff here you know, like thosenumbers like are probably a
little bit more common if you'rein Dallas, texas, but in in the
heartland of Nebraska Are youkidding me?
(09:51):
No, like, like somethingsignificant was going on and I
don't want to take the creditaway from that and it had
nothing.
You know, like, I'm thankfulthat I experienced and I
experienced success at theleadership level.
At the leadership level, like Ihad over a thousand people in
my leadership pipeline, I hadover 300 people in just in my
worship department alone.
Like we were making records andwriting a lot, lots of songs and
(10:11):
I loved it, um, but there wassomething special there's life
transformation happening in thehearts of the people that were
going there and um, but in themeantime, like I, you know, we,
uh, it got lonely and it gotfrustrating, it got hard, um and
uh, I had a lot ofresponsibility without not a lot
(10:31):
of authority in the structurethat I was in, and so, um, the
next thing you knew it's likeokay, um, I ended up in an
unhealthy, unhealthy space, hadto make some changes pretty fast
to to, to leave and abandon,and I went from having
everything to losing pretty mucheverything.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That is absolutely incredible in the sense not that
it felt good to you, butincredible when you think about
the amount of loss.
Like, not a lot of people canhandle that and then get to a
place where they can kind ofreinvent themselves.
And I just want to marinate onthis for a little bit, because
(11:08):
some things that I'veexperienced in my own personal
walk with Christ is that youknow I did I was a person in the
congregation who had very highexpectations on the leadership
in the church and forgettingthat the church leadership are
human, just like I'm a human,and we start to put people on
(11:31):
pedestals and we expectperfection and that's just not
sustainable.
And so sometimes people in thechurch won't stop, pause and
have hard conversations withleadership.
If they're frustrated, they'lljust walk out and leave and
sweat off their back.
And God has really shown me ifI have any issue, source of
(11:54):
conflict, just like if I'm atwork, I would sit down and have
a conversation that matters withsomeone.
I need to do the same thing withthe people that I'm doing quote
unquote church with includingthe church leadership, and then
on the other side of that coin,there's real hurt and pain that
leaders are walking around withthat need to be understood
(12:17):
especially, you know, if wecan't have a heart and
compassion for our leadership inchurch, that means that there
could be, you know.
Obviously the opportunity forthe enemy gets in there is
wreaking havoc, and who's theshepherd to the shepherd right?
And so it's important for us ashumans to know that we all need
shepherding, and I had recentlygone through this now twice in
(12:40):
the last seven years, where Ihave seen two senior pastors
that I love get to a place wherethey're in almost a burnout
situation based on theexpectations that are put on
them and the environment reallydoesn't support success, and so
then, all of a sudden, they'remaking a life change to leave
(13:00):
and, like you said, everything'staken away from them.
And I just want to like what Iexperienced with these two
people that I love dearly is thefriends that were their friends
today.
It was like a ghost town.
Day two and it was almost likethe love and the adoration that
you cared for one day was justgone in a second, and I think
(13:24):
some people stay away becausemaybe they don't know what to
say or it's awkward for them,but really they don't understand
the need of the person who isno longer in the role that
they're in.
That's the time where they needtheir community and their
church body more and it grievesmy heart that you had to walk
(13:49):
through that, your family had towalk through that and I'm sorry
on behalf of the body of Christ.
That's not how we do lifetogether right, and I'm also
grateful your story has anotherside to it that you're walking
through now.
We're going to get to that, butyou know, thank you for your
(14:09):
service and leadership in thechurch and thank you for the
grit that you have to kind ofwalk through that pain that you
you experienced.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh man, um, no need to apologize, um and and and.
Thank you for you know, justfor your kindness.
You know we don't.
I don't even really necessarilyknow how to say all this, but I
would say this is that we wantto talk more about how people
(14:38):
leave the church rather thantalking about why they leave the
church, especially when peoplein ministry and hear me on this,
I'm not innocent.
I made some compromising choices, and do I regret them?
I regret hurting people alongthe way.
I don't regret my journey atall and you know, like I knew a
(15:02):
long time ago that there was amisalignment.
I knew like there was somethingin my gut that was telling me
like, hey, god's got a purposefor you, but you're in the wrong
place at the wrong time withthe wrong people.
This is not your thing, but thething was is I didn't leave
because I didn't know what elseI could do and and because I was
so entrenched in everything.
And here's the thing.
Is that what people don'trealize, that when you are a
(15:24):
pastor, you kind of have all ofyour worlds, your sustainable
sustenance, all in one singularspot, you know.
So you're getting yourspiritual needs from one place,
you're getting your relationalneeds.
You're getting your financeneeds Like everything is
connected to like one singleyour thing, and so, like you
(15:45):
take one brick out of that wall,the whole thing falls down.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Wow, you know strong perspective.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah and so, but it's a recipe for disaster.
And so it's like, like you said, like who is the pastors to the
pastor and and so so withinthat.
But so when somebody does leave, you're right, day two, dude,
it's a freaking ghost town likethere is.
There's nobody around and we're, you know we're living in a
town that's not massively huge,you know it's 300,000 people on
(16:12):
game day.
You know Lincoln, lincoln,nebraska, home of the
Cornhuskers, go right, um, but,and so everybody's kind of like
one step connected fromeverybody.
And so like when, when you leaveand it's a public thing well,
everybody in town kind of knowssomething went down, and so they
want to talk about how you left, but nobody wants to talk about
(16:36):
why you left.
And so here's like the onething that I would say this, and
if there's one thing about thebody of Christ that I would say,
cause I even had a like, acomplete, I had a discovery call
with a pastor that had to leaveministry, this, that earlier
this week, and he lost, he'slike literally he's lost
everything, trying to figure outhow to reinvent himself.
But when you talk about whypeople leave ministry, if you're
(16:59):
currently serving in leadershipin a church and if you see, and
if you're a member of a churchand you see a member of a church
team being treated unfairly, ifyou see them being verbally,
spiritually, emotionally orpsychologically abused and you
choose to still support thatorganization, they're not wrong.
You are.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Choose to not say something, and I think that that
was probably one of the thingsthat we had to come to grips
with a little bit.
Because I mean, like I mean,because, keep in mind, like we,
we went from feeling like we hadthousands of friends on day one
to having nobody on day two,almost lost our marriage, didn't
know where our next paycheckwas going to come from.
You know, I ended up like goingand working at a car dealership
(17:43):
for, you know, a year and ahalf while I finished up my
master's degrees and startedcoaching like individual clients
on the side, because my abilityto dream and see bigger than
what I was experiencing was socompressed.
It was like the whole world likejust crashing down on me and
you know I didn't reallynecessarily have a lot of people
around me to hold my arms up,so um so.
(18:04):
But when you kind of likelooking back and the things that
I've had to process through,it's like I've learned to be a
little bit more honest with mystory as far as saying, hey,
listen, yep, I've owned my crap.
but let's talk about, let's talkabout the bigger story here.
Um, because it's been, you know, like seven years plus now, so
we're in a different place, butbut still as you, because we're
(18:26):
still here in the area every nowand then it's like we bump into
people that we used to callourselves best friends with them
and we go.
You kind of knew what was goingon, but you didn't call.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You know, that's hard .
Speaker 2 (18:42):
That's a hard one to swallow.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It is incredibly difficult and what I hope you
know I'm certainly taking away,and I hope the listeners are
taking away is don't shy awayLike conflict, is that we're on
this side of heaven, right, andso it doesn't matter.
I love, Michael, that you saidlisten, I didn't get it perfect.
I hurt people along the way.
(19:08):
It's the one thing I wish Icould do over, but I don't take
my journey.
I wouldn't, you know, take myjourney away.
We have to be in there together.
You know God says it's one ofmy favorite life verses, john 17
, his prayer before he goes tothe cross Father, as you are in
me and I are in you, let them bein me and I in them, I in them.
(19:28):
So the world will believe inthe consequences of us not truly
living it out in love.
And you know, when we're goneon day two, that's certainly not
a demonstration of love, thatis the consequence People just
don't believe us.
So here we carry this mantlethat Christ is the answer and we
(19:48):
can't even be Christ to our ownbody.
And that's just what grieves meso much about your story.
And I know you're seven yearsout of it and yet, like you said
, just this week you got a phonecall.
This is happening to peoplearound the world and so and I
think God is shaking a lot rightnow in this season, so there's
(20:11):
going to continuing to beshaking.
But even when things areshaking like, god wants his body
to support each other.
You know, through correction,through repentance, through
forgiveness, through it allright, we're to be there to lift
the hands up when we can't liftour own arms up.
So thank you for your courage toeven share the testimony,
(20:33):
because I got to be honest withyou.
I know a lot of people who havehad similar stories and they
won't even talk about it.
They're almost like, scared totalk about it.
So I think it's courageous thatyou talk about it.
You've walked a path of healingand forgiveness.
And what was the pivotal point?
Because I really want to get towhat you're doing now, because
it's incredible what you'redoing right now what was the
(20:56):
pivotal point or season in lifewhere you got you know the aha
moment, if you got one to sayyou know what?
There is something even biggerfor you.
You thought you were achievingbig and your world was getting
bigger, but God had even morefor you.
You thought you were achievingbig, and your world was getting
bigger, but God had even morefor you.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, I mean, I'd spent so much of my even time
leading up to being in pastoralministry of feeling like maybe
the Because my dad wasaprofessional musician.
So therefore I'm like I want tobe a professional musician like
my dad and all that stuff.
But and I love that but I mynatural knack when it came to
(21:38):
like building teams, inspiringteams and inspiring leaders and
coaching leaders.
I've just always had thispastoral heart about of like
really just making sure that, nomatter what, that I'm willing
to fight to make sure thatsomebody ends up being the best
version of themselves.
I want to see them win.
I want to make sure they havethe right tools, systems and
strategies in their place, andso that's just always been me,
(22:00):
no matter what it's like.
Even even when I went and Istarted working at the car
dealership, I quickly I quicklyascended into into corporate
leadership, like being in chargeof their.
You know, here I'm like workingwith a Toyota brand and I'm
like working with Toyota leadersto develop a leadership
pipeline for one of the region'sbiggest, you know.
(22:20):
I love that this leadershipthing and I was already going
back to school and um, but thenI started to go, you know, just,
you know one thing afteranother, working with uh, you
(22:42):
know, aveda beauty salons andhelping them, helping develop a,
um, you know, a guestexperience certification program
.
And then the next thing, youknow, it's like I'm getting
asked to speak at these eventsand bigger events, working with
fortune companies starting to.
It's like it was just like thisthing snowballed and with this
idea of our teams, you know,methodology around our business
just kind of started a freighttrain that we couldn't really
(23:05):
necessarily stop and so, um, soI think that that's where, like,
sometimes the blinker goes offand it actually forces you to
realize that there's a biggerdream.
Sometimes the blinker goes offand it actually forces you to
realize that there's a biggerdream that you're not willing to
look at.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And and that, and that's, for me, is like I've
always felt like maybe, like Iwas built for something
different.
There's things that I know howto do, that I have no idea why I
know how to do them.
You know, even even as I end upon stages and speaking, and
things like this there's.
There's at times, like when itcomes to me sharing stories of
these ridiculous things thatI've been able to be a part of
and having no idea how I wasable to get there in the first
(23:41):
place, but I know that it allmakes sense, like it just it
just does, and so.
So that's kind of where youknow.
So, between 2017 and today, youknow we have coached with some
of the biggest organizations inthe world.
I've worked with leaders thathave been with Pfizer, with ADP,
with Disney, with even Ducati.
(24:03):
I got to meet with some peoplewith them last week, and I think
it is again.
It's just like the first thingthat disappears when you're
going through a season offailure is your ability to dream
.
The first thing, like you caneven think about that as a
person, it's like, okay, what'syou know?
You start going through a roughtime.
There's no money in the bank,um, people are frustrated with
(24:23):
you.
You don't know who to call.
You're not going to call theghostbusters, but um, but anyway
.
So, um, yeah, anyways, um, butanyway, so, um, yeah, anyways.
That's so stupid.
Um, but your, your ability todream, is the first thing that
goes Um and so.
But once you start to see theflicker of hope, hope's an
engine, you know, and leaning onthose things as far as like,
(24:46):
how are you built?
Are you in the right space?
Are you surrounding yourselfwith the right people?
Like here's the thing that Ilove is I embrace this too late
in my life is that you are thesum average of the five loudest
voices in your life.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's, that's good.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
And I thought that I had to accept the hand that was
dealt to me.
through my whole life I grew upthrough abuse as a kid and my
mom and my dad weren't reallynecessarily around that much Um
and so, and then getting intolike adult life and just going
okay, this is mother hand, thatI'm dealt, I got to live with it
.
No, if you want to be a betterdad, you surround yourself with
better dads.
(25:20):
If you want to be a better youknow business person,
entrepreneur, surround yourselfwith people that dream bigger
than what you think is possible.
And that's what I did.
And you know, beyond school,you know so I went back to
master's degrees in executivecoaching and organizational
leadership and then I just 100%,irrefutably serve my clients,
(25:42):
even like today, like, forexample, like I wake up every
day and I challenged myself.
I have the same type of textmessage that I send out to
people that are just on a randomlist and and so it just
basically says says this hey,thinking of you today, just
wanted to cheer you on, pleaselet me know if there's a way
that I can serve you today, loveyou.
And I just send it.
(26:03):
And you know, like I get thistext message back from this guy
that was part of a constructioncompany that I met like four
years ago and he was like dude,that text message today.
That's how you served me.
He goes just you showing up andreminding me that I'm here to
bring the best out in my clientsmeans the world to me, so
thanks.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's the simple things right.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, you know, what I love about it is, uh, the.
What I see you're doing istruly discipling the marketplace
.
I mean you're coming in andyou're giving people and you're
see you're doing is trulydiscipling the marketplace.
I mean you're coming in andyou're giving people and your
company tell us what your it's.
Teams Coach.
So is it Teams Coach, and Ilove your tagline, or it's kind
(26:47):
of a mission statement too, butwill you tell me, is it a
mission statement or a tagline?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
no-transcript um, we, um, I'm sorry I'm getting
getting back from being sick,but um, well, the the story with
, with, with teams, that coachwas that that wasn't necessarily
going to be the name of mycompany.
I mean, we were looking atsomething of like and my dream
is big.
My dream has always been big,um of like going okay, like
(27:22):
Patrick Lencioni, I would loveto hang out with that guy, you
know what I mean.
It's like he's got the tablegroup we got to come up with
some sort of like cool, coolbranded name to go after.
Maybe we'll go after thearmchair collective, you know,
or something like that.
Um, but it really came down toour methodology of coaching, you
(27:43):
know.
So it was like so, teams isactually an acronym, so team.
So the five things that we seethat every single successful
organization does that aremoving things forward.
Number one clearly identifytargets.
You know, they know they'rebullseye.
If you can't measure it, itdoesn't count.
Number two engagement.
Three different levels ofengagement that every single
leader thinks about.
How am I, how am I leading mymyself?
(28:10):
Engagement point Number one.
Two how am I engaging with myteam?
Engagement point number numbertwo.
Engagement point number threehow am I engaging with my
audience?
Do they know my why and am Icreating a feeling that will
never let them forget me?
So powerful, right?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So powerful.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
A action steps, you know, clear action steps.
That ties back to our originaltarget that we talked about in
the first place.
Nobody likes to be sent out onfool's errands Nobody.
You know.
83% of people in the workforceclaim that they get asked to do
things every single day thatdon't make sense according to
the mission, vision and valuesof their company.
83% that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Come on, it is.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You know, momentum is the M, you know.
So it's not about more we canadd to the plate.
It's about what can we takeaway to help us go faster.
And then synergy, you know,again, celebrating the wins.
What are we doing to make surethat we're we're breeding good
collaboration on our teams andempowering leaders in the right
spaces and and making sure thatpeople on our team know that we
care about them and love them,and so that's the team's
(29:08):
methodology.
But on the technology side of itis that we are committed 100%
to being the most sought afterand the highest level of
innovative leader within thecoaching space, and so when you
get involved in us, we makecoaching super stinking cool and
super stinking easy.
We have integrations that takeabout 20 minutes.
(29:29):
That's going to give you ablueprint of your team to let
you know what your reasonableexpectations can be and what's
the ecosystem and thetemperament and the motivations
of the people that are on yourteam.
But then we have our coachingapp as well that does nudges
every single day, based on yourgoals and based on who you are.
Have our coaching app as wellthat does nudges every single
day, based on your goals andbased on who you are, and so we
wanted to.
(29:49):
We wanted to solve the problemof this is that a lot of times
people don't do coaching becauseit becomes incredibly expensive
to do full plan integration forfull companies.
So we took care of that problem.
We figured out ways to be tohelp technology be our friend on
that, but then also to makecoaching actionable and simple
for C-level leaders who don'thave time to feel like they have
(30:11):
to invest hours upon hoursdoing homework.
And no, we figured it out, wecracked the code on that.
So that's been important to us.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah.
So what's really attractive isyou can really learn.
I have this motto about youcan't really lead people you
don't know, and so you haveframeworks in place that you can
learn through who your peopleare, what they care about,
various assessments that peoplecan take that you can have.
You know just different nuggetsof information about them and
(30:41):
you start to formulate a bigger,wider view of who your teammate
and team is collectively, andit puts it all in a one-stop
shop place to go and you takethat information and you can
start to create meaningfulinteractions and then, following
your team's framework, it'sreally the end-to-end package.
(31:03):
What I find is, in coaching ingeneral, you have to go to
multiple sources to get varioustypes of coaching, and this is
it's almost like you have solvedthe problem where some coaches
work on who I am as a humanbeing and what do I need to do
to continue to be the betterversion of myself as a leader, a
(31:25):
contributor on a team, etcetera, and then but it's very
much disconnected from thetangible execution of the
business when am I going?
What are the actions that Ineed to take?
But being inspired and who do Iwant to be, what's that essence
, the imprint that I want toleave behind.
I love that on the engagementside, it's just really the 360
(31:50):
view of taking team performanceto the next level.
So I encourage everyone who'slistening.
It doesn't matter where you'releading a team.
You need to check this outbecause it truly is a set apart
approach to coaching.
What else would you add on that, michael?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
with some exciting things.
I mean, I think the just goingback to like, okay, why did?
Why do people reach out tocoaches in the first place?
Um, they're.
They're either relationally or,you know, just like culture,
wise.
Things are either falling apartand it just feels gross and
everybody knows um, or they'retrying to achieve, um,
scalability, or achieve newlevels of top line revenue
(32:36):
production that, um, that theycan't reach on their own.
And and you, and to be honestwith you, great leaders have
great coaches.
This should not be a weirdconversation for people If you
haven't explored executivecoaching.
Um, great leaders have greatcoaches.
This should not be a weirdconversation for people if you
haven't explored executivecoaching, because great leaders
have great coaches.
I promise you.
Look at some of the bestcompanies out there.
Almost every single person hasadvisors or coaches.
What makes it hard about thisis that I will say this the word
(32:57):
of warning on this is that doyour research and find somebody
who is certified and somebodywho's actually legitimate post
COVID.
I tell you what, in anunregulated field, this has been
, this has been crazy the levelof people that are just they're
putting out digital programsthat have been created by AI,
but because they're really goodat sales.
They're making a lot of moneyoff of people and kind of
(33:19):
bringing some credibility issuesto the coaching field.
So that's all I'm going to sayabout that.
But, but the but, the motivationbehind why like, like, like.
Take, for example, when peoplereach out to us that are looking
to increase their top linerevenue.
We just signed a new clienttoday of another fortune 500
company.
They came on board today, got atext message last night from
the CFO and he says howconfident are you that you're
(33:41):
going to help us increase ourtop line revenue?
I'm like, oh man, what ahorrible question to ask in the
11th hour.
I don't want to answer thatquestion, you know, like.
So I sent it over to one of myteam members and the team and
she was so brilliant with howshe responded.
She said here's the stats, justsend him these.
And so what the text messagehas said was 89% of 89% of all
(34:07):
of our clients report reportrevenue increases within the
first two months of theircoaching experience and 93% of
our clients report that they'venever actually had to pay for
their coaching because their topline revenue exceeded what
their goals were.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
So it's like your motivation might be to fix your
revenue.
I promise you your revenue isnot your issue.
It's it's structure, it'svision, it's mission, it's value
, it's clarity.
When you're able to kind of getall the things working in the
right direction, it's so funwhen you eventually go hey,
we're not talking about revenueanymore, Right.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Amen, Amen, Amen.
It's hard work too.
A lot of things that once you,even if you have a strong
mission, vision and mission andyou know exactly where you're
going, if you don't have healthypeople on that team, you're not
going far.
I mean, what takes a healthyteam, you know, a day to do?
It could take you a month to do.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
And so structure issues.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yes, and so one thing that I'm I mean I'm in
technology, I build software fora living.
So one of the things that wealways have to be aware of it's
not just about the you know whatwe're putting into production,
but it's about, you know,putting into the marketplace to
sell.
It's about speed, because wehave to be highly innovative.
(35:31):
Speed is everything, and sowe're constantly looking at
what's the friction in theorganization and how can we go
faster.
And so everything that you'retalking about across that
spectrum, that is exactly spoton where healthy companies who
are doing what you're talkingabout.
That's why they're exceedingthe competitors who aren't doing
(35:51):
it.
And as far as coaching goes, Ilove that you said every good
company has coaches.
Just look at it.
Every good team has coaches.
Every good sports team has acoach.
Try looking at a.
Could you imagine if there wasno coaches in basketball?
We're in March Madness rightnow.
Could you imagine if there's nocoaches, you don't have a team.
Um, you don't have coaches infootball.
(36:13):
There's no Superbowl, like.
Just think about everywhereelse in the world where it's a
team sport, we have coaches, andto think that we don't need
them in the marketplace is kindof backwards.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, and you know so , and I think that even when so
I have two coaches myself andyou know you shouldn't work with
a coach that doesn't have acoach you know it's like one of
those weird things, to whereit's, you know it's karma,
things will always come back,type of thing, but you have to
lead by example on this.
But but that's what this is sofun is that when you embrace
(36:51):
teachability, when you embrace,um, expanding your, your, your
role as the chief visionaryofficer of an organization or or
somebody that's responsible forculture, um, things get
incredibly fun when you getaddicted to growing and then
when you know how to become thechief strategy officer for your
(37:11):
organization, that youunderstand how to.
Okay, let's clarify the vision,but then let's make sure that
these three orbs of our system,strategies and structures
absolutely make sense andthey're in alignment with the
thing that we care about themost about, you know.
And lastly, I would say this isthat EQ will be one of the most
important things that we talkabout in leadership for the next
decade at least.
We're having this grandawakening right now within our
(37:32):
organizations to where that'swhy we have all these different
agenda type things that arepopping up, of going oh man,
maybe we should care aboutdiversity, maybe we should care
about equality, maybe we shouldcare about empowerment.
Well, it's not because we, youknow, it's not because those are
new ideas.
It's because we're being awokento the idea that maybe we
haven't really given thosethings priority in the past.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Amen, well said, let me ask you a different question
what's on the horizon for music?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Um, that's, that's an interesting comment.
So our question so, um, so wehave some new, some new music
coming out later this year, soI'm excited about that.
Um, and I think that that's thething is, you know, my goal
right now is to release newsingles, probably, you know,
once a quarter, uh, for the nextyear, uh, maybe a year and a
(38:22):
half, but just to kind of primethat songwriting engine again.
So you know, so every week I'mworking with different artists
as a producer.
I have a have a.
There's a band called nameswithout numbers.
You got to check them out.
They're brilliant, but justthey have a new project coming
out that we produced on, and socollaborative spaces and working
with the right artists continueto just kind of stretch that
(38:43):
muscle as well.
That's so good.
I'm definitely going to checkit out.
Names without numbers, did yousay?
Yeah, they were.
They started about 20 years agoand now they had a resurgence,
which they're bigger than ever.
But that names without numbersyou can definitely tell they're
kind of like an emo rock band bythat name, Talking about sassy
names of that number.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You remember that back in the nineties and the
early two thousands, like therewas always a band name that had
numbers in it, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Exactly.
That's funny.
Um, okay, so my last.
I have two more questions.
My next question is uh, you maybe working on a book that we're
all going to pray intoexistence.
We're joining you.
What is this book?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, so Dreaming Through Failure is the first one
that's coming up, and thefollow-up to that is a book
called the Unstuck andUnstoppable Team, and so both of
these are keynotes right now.
So, if you catch me at aleadership conference or if you
want me to book me as a speaker,I can send you out the teaser
trailers.
As far as, like what you getwith those keynote packages um,
(39:48):
hearing me speak but yeah, Idecided to turn, turn both of
them into into books.
Um, because number one, thedreaming through failure that is
my story, you know, and that's,but that's the thing is that
that's your story too is that weall get to this place, to where
the first thing to go whenwe're experienced failure, loss,
(40:08):
et cetera, is our ability to beable to see bigger, to see a
dream, and so my personaljourney is even though there's
there's some pain in there uh,for me to be able to see bigger
than I ever have before, todream bigger than I ever have
before.
Right now, um, it's so powerfuland good.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's so incredible and we all need it because, to
your point, we all get to theend of ourself and then God is,
you know, rebirthing to where hewants us next.
So I love that, so definitelypraying it in with you, and I
can't wait for it to bepublished.
And then I want you to leave uswith what is your anchor
scripture that you just turnedto, and it just gives peace to
(40:47):
your heart yeah, so uh, for I'mcrucified with christ.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
No longer I live, but christ who lives in me.
That's my go-to amen.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
And that wraps it up.
Michael, would you do us thehonor of praying us out?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
yeah, thanks, uh, jesus, just pray that, um, you
take these words, take the heartof this, this podcast, and that
it reached the right listenerstoday.
God, more importantly, forthose that are listening, god,
we pray that you'd remind usthat hope is an engine and that
you have great things in mindfor those who love you, that
you've already ordained thosesteps.
It's not things that we need tochase down, but just things
(41:19):
that we can open our hearts to.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Amen.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of Grow, where God
reveals our way.
We hope you found inspiration,wisdom and encouragement as we
continue on this faith-filledjourney together.
We invite you to subscribe toGrow so you never miss an
episode.
Stay tuned for more biblicalteachings, heartfelt testimonies
and insights that will nourishyour spirit and deepen your
(41:44):
relationship with God.
We appreciate your support andparticipation in this podcast.
Until next time, may you growin faith, love and knowledge of
His divine plan.
May God bless you abundantly.
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