March 8, 2024 • 21 mins
Unlock the secrets to elevating your sales calls and leading your team to new heights with David Pearson, the visionary CEO of Level 5 Selling. As I, Dylan Burke, converse with this trailblazing leader, you'll be privy to an insider's roadmap for transforming from a knowledgeable sales practitioner to an indispensable value creator in your client's eyes. David's wealth of experience shines a light on the nuanced art of incremental improvement and the power of personalized coaching, providing actionable strategies that promise to revolutionize your approach regardless of whether you're nurturing a fledgling sales team or steering a colossal sales force.
Prepare to challenge the status quo of sales leadership as we dissect the five stratified levels of sales calls, unveiling the stark difference between simply visiting professionally and creating profound value. We're not just discussing theories; we're diving into the practical application of 49 microlearning modules specifically designed to catapult your skills to the pinnacle of sales performance. As the landscape of sales morphs, with buyers increasingly informed and discerning, this conversation with David equips you with the foresight and tools to not just meet but exceed the evolving demands of sales excellence. And for those eager to continue the learning journey, reach out for a complimentary sales book that will further amplify your expertise.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the growing Lean
podcast sponsored by LeanDiscovery Group, an
award-winning software and appdevelopment firm based out of
Virginia.
This is your host, dylan Burke,also known as Deech, and I'm
happy to be here today withDavid Pearson, ceo at Level 5
Selling.
Welcome, david.
Thanks, dylan, great to be withyou.
Yeah, I'm excited to learn moreabout your business.
(00:25):
On that note, can you start usoff by telling us a little bit
about yourself, your history andhow you ended up doing what you
do today?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, sounds good, dylan.
Hey, when I got out of college,I went into the sales training
and consulting business and Ispent 11 years there, going from
selling all the way up toleading the entire sales force.
The company I was with is avery well-known global brand and
I think that intellectualproperty is game-changing it's
some of the best out there.
But I found that a lot of theclients didn't get the results
(01:01):
they expected because theytreated it like a sales training
event Check the box, come in,run it and they go back there
always pretty quickly.
When I left there, I went on toa sales force.
I went on to lead a sales forceand ended up taking over sales
for a publicly traded companywith about 1,000 salespeople and
about $3 billion in sales Guys.
Pretty quickly, the frontlinesales leadership was the
(01:23):
absolute key to success.
I got this passion around thatparticular topic and I connected
up with a friend of mine, johnHoskins.
I've known him for many yearsand he had written some books on
this topic.
He said, david, we're growingthis business fast right now.
Why don't you come over and bea partner with me and let's
build this up to the next level?
That's how I got into whatwe're doing now, today, and
(01:46):
really focusing on how we makesales leaders just masterful
coaches who can develop and liftthe rest of the sales
organization.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's amazing.
Is that specific to anyindustry?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's not.
Actually.
We focus on B2B type industries, so we're not so much on the
B2C world, but actually ourclient base ranges from you name
it biotech, pharma,manufacturing, insurance,
everything that spans across theboard, just where they're sales
leaders, and it tends to be ina more complex selling
(02:19):
environment in a business tobusiness spot.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay, okay, that's awesome.
Yeah, I've been in sales forthe past six, seven years
started in real estate, thenwent to finance, now most
recently in tech, and yeah, it'sa super interesting space to be
in sales in general, DefinitelyI'm a sales leader.
Yeah, exactly.
Can you walk us through youroverall strategy for your
(02:45):
business?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, well it's we're all about developing front line
sales leaders to be masterfulcoaches and we give them the
tools to be successful atdeveloping salespeople in the
normal course of business.
And that's the key to what wedo.
You know, we've just found thatthe front line sales leaders
absolutely the key to drivingsuccess and impact and if they
(03:09):
can do the right types ofcoaching of salespeople, you can
elevate the conversations thatare occurring and change the
results that people are seeingdramatically.
And so our business is reallyhelping helping companies and
chief sales officers executetheir sales strategy through
getting their sales leadersdoing the right types of things
to build the business.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Okay, okay, and your clients are they.
Are they all like enterpriseclients, or how many employees
do they typically typically have?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, it's a good question.
It ranges in size prettydramatically.
We have customers that havewell over 1000 salespeople and
in fact our number one customersis is is closer to 3000
salespeople, but the you know wehave customers as small as 15
to 20 salespeople to, so it's apretty wide range in there.
I'd say most of the customerswe have, if you take that just
(04:03):
the bulk, are probably between50 and 100 salespeople somewhere
in that range.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Okay, okay, awesome.
And have you adapted to changesin the industry?
I know if I correct me.
If I'm wrong, you startedduring 2020, right, and I was
like bang in the middle of thepandemic.
How did you, firstly, how comethat came about, starting in the
middle of the pandemic?
(04:29):
Was it was that part of yourreason for starting the business
, or was just coincidental?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, no, no, actually we started the business
pre pandemic and we had achange dramatically because
suddenly you're not getting inperson with people and we're
able to deliver, deliver a lotvirtually so that that part did
change.
You know, I think the bigchanges that are happening in
the the industry is that.
You know, I think there's beena trend for many years that
(04:57):
people go to you, get hired in acompany.
You go to sales training.
They use a certain salestraining.
They send you in.
You go check the box.
You know we put Dylan throughtraining and you know you go
back to your old ways prettyquickly.
And the reality is that that'sjust not how we learn.
You know we learn in small,bite sized chunks and I give the
example a lot.
I'll say you know, if you wereto take me to a golf course and
(05:22):
put me in front of golf pro, thegolf pro can give me 10 things
to work on.
I'm not going to do a M Well,I'm going to.
I won't you give me too much.
Give me one or two things towork on.
I can work on over and over andover again.
I can practice it and as I getbetter at it, you can then add.
The pro can add more on.
Same thing with how we learn.
You've got to learn a little inlittle, bite sized chunks, and
(05:43):
so when you coach properly, youcan say, hey, this is where
David needs the most help andyou can focus directly in on
that and give me something shortand simple that I can work on
and improve.
When I improve, that you canadd on.
That's what.
That's some of the I think someof the trend changes that we're
seeing is just how people arelearning and how we need.
We need bite sized, quickthings that we can get.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, okay.
And how do you track theprogress of your clients team,
or is that up to them?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, yeah, we track the progress really closely
because we have two things thatwe do.
We create level five salesleaders and that's where the
level five comes in, and we findthere are five different types
of leaders out there and whenthey get to that top level,
which is a true performancepartner, they're spending 80% of
the time asking questions andlistening and guiding the
(06:38):
salesperson and 20% of theirtime telling.
That's a big thing.
That happens when they becomethat performance partner.
So we want to create that typeof a sales leader and then they
will.
Then when they become the righttype of you know they're
leading and coaching properly.
We want to create level fivesales conversations and we found
there are five different typesof sales conversations that
(07:00):
happen and I can certainly walkthrough those five.
But what happens is those thatare in level four and five we
found sell usually in most ofour customers they sell two X
more than those who are sellinga level one, two and three
regularly, and so you thinkabout that and usually it's
about 30% of the salespeople arein level four and five versus
(07:22):
one, two and three.
Now what happens is we findthat we can move through
coaching 40% of those people inlevel one, two and three over
the level four and five and whenyou do that you've got now you
think about the impact of thatof 40% of your people being able
to get over to level four andfive, where they can do two X
more in sales.
It's a big number yeah.
(07:44):
And we track that every quarter,based on how people are moving
up those levels.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, amazing, that's awesome.
And do you have any specifictactics or tools that have been
effective in growing yourbusiness?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, when you talk about growing the business, I
share with you a little bitabout that level five selling
model, and I'll share it reallyquickly because it won't take
very long and I think yourlisteners may appreciate it.
We found there's five types ofsales calls that occur out there
sales conversations and this isthrough Equipmenter Research
and now a lot of work with manycustomers.
(08:18):
But a level one sales call is aprofessional visitor, and this
is where they believe that youbelieve that friends buy from
friends.
It's all about the relationshipand you know more about the
person's kids and you abouttheir boss.
The fact is is that we need todevelop relationships, but if
that's all we do, we're notgoing to be successful.
Get to a level two, you're aprice seller.
It's all about the price.
(08:40):
Say what are you paying, I canget you a better price.
Your product becomes a pricelist.
Sometimes the sales person istrying to have a good
conversation, they're trying tohave value, but they customer
drags them at a price and theydon't know to get back to a
value discussion.
That's a level two call.
Level three is a technicalteller.
Hey, let me tell you why we'reunique, why we're different, why
we're the best.
Let me get my PowerPointpresentation out.
(09:01):
Let me tell you all about it.
It's that spray and pray typeof a sales approach and that's a
level three.
Dylan, we found in our researchthat about 60% of sales calls
are scrapping waste.
They just don't move the buyingprocess forward, which is
significant.
I mean, it just blows me away.
But most of those happen atlevel one, two and three.
When you get to level four,it's first of all professional
(09:24):
selling, where the sales personis asking good questions or
understanding what's importantto the customer.
They're like back a solution.
They're gaining commitment.
They're differentiating all thethings you'd want of a sales
person, but they're they'refinding a fit for their solution
.
When you get to level five,it's a value creator.
And that value creator is whereyou are now understanding your
customer's customer.
You're understanding theirbusiness in a much broader
(09:45):
perspective and how you can helpthem, you're helping shape
their thinking, you're bringinginsights to the table.
And so those are the fivelevels and, as I mentioned
before, those in four and fivetypically sell two X more than
those in one, two and three.
So our goal is is you canidentify where people
predominantly sell and help movethem over through coaching.
And then we have tools that we49 micro learning modules that
(10:09):
we can use to help get themthere, because there's there's
really 40 plus skills you needto master to be a level five
sales person.
So those are some of the toolsthat we that we use that are
very successful in helping ourcustomers grow their businesses,
and if we can do that, thatgrows our business.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, amazing, amazing.
And these 49 modules is that?
How do they do that?
Is it just like PDFs or videos,or is it for one courses?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
No, their videos are eight to 10 minutes in length
and we have a technologyplatform where they go in and
they view those videos eight to10 minutes in length.
They have because that's reallywhat our attention span is
these days right, and then whenyou get done, you have an
exercise.
So if it's something simplelike opening a call, I'll watch
a video.
And opening a call, I've got atool that I pull down and then I
(10:58):
actually practice opening acall, I can record a video for
my manager Manager can watch itand provide feedback on it.
It makes it really easy toprovide coaching remotely on a
very specific skill thatsomebody might need.
And those video span across allkinds of different areas, from
account you know, call planningand execution, to account
strategy, negotiation, businessacumen.
(11:19):
But they're the key skillsrequired to be a level four or
five salesperson.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And in terms of your businessand getting to where you are
today, what have been thebiggest challenges that you
faced?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
The biggest challenges on getting where we
are today.
I would say that it's kind ofinteresting.
Risk is one that is, I wouldsay, is one of the challenges we
had overcome.
And you know, I think thatsometimes when we're out selling
and talking to people, we failto address the risk.
And I think we did that in thebeginning in this business.
(11:56):
And I'll tell you what happenedis I used to work for a really
well-branded, known company andit's like when you go in and
talk to them about that company,people know it.
They'd say oh yeah, everybodyuses that company.
It's, the risk is a lot less.
When we were getting ourbusiness going, a lot of people
had not heard of level fiveselling and level five coaching
system and so it's a risk, andso we actually really thought
(12:20):
about how we can remove thatrisk and now we have a way that
people can we guarantee theresults.
If they don't see results in 90days, they don't pay and they
don't continue paying.
So it's, you know, it's kind ofa SAS type model, that kind of
more of a you know learning as aservice and if they don't have
(12:41):
to continue on.
But we know that people getresults quickly and I think
addressing that risk was a bigkey for us.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And I think that's for probably a lot of people's
businesses.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
We have to.
You have to really address therisk component and take the risk
out of it for people to makethe decision easier 100%, and
what stage of growth are you onin terms of your business?
Well, we're in a pretty rapidgrowth phase right now because
we've got a pretty nice clientbase now and so as we start
(13:13):
working with these you know wework with these clients they see
results and that just drivesmore business and more
opportunity for us.
So we're in a pretty we've gota very strong product and
solution.
You know, I think theintellectual property is all
there and it's more a matter ofgetting it out into more
(13:33):
people's hands, and that's whatwe're doing now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, 100%.
And in terms of yoursatisfaction with your business
operations and the level you'reat, what would you rate that out
of 10 if today?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh, I'd say probably maybe an eight, seven or eight,
somewhere in that range.
There's always more room to go.
You know, we're constantlylooking at getting better and
getting more efficient and howcan we make it easier for our
customers, and I just want tostay focused on that.
How do we?
You know, I think I'm at apoint in my life, dylan, where
(14:10):
I've done a lot of really coolthings in my career and I really
want to make a big impact, andso whatever we can do to make it
easier and create even biggerimpact, we're always looking to
do that.
So more to go it's a neverending game.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, 100%.
And then if we were to sit downagain in the 12 months time and
everything that has gone,everything that could go right,
has gone right in your business,what would the business look
like and what would you rate itout of 10?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Well, it's a good question.
If we were forward, we'd havecustomers that are using our
service on a regular basis.
They're continuing to see valuein it year after year.
They're renewing agreementswith us because they see the
value and you know it's buildinga subscriber base and having a
(15:04):
really strong subscriber basethat is telling others about it
and referring.
I think that you know my goalwould be to be that kind of a
household name in the world ofsales and sales leadership in
the next few years.
So you know, doing that thatwould probably put me up there
higher on the number of one to10.
Although I don't want to go toomuch higher because you can't
(15:26):
ever be satisfied.
If I get satisfied, we're notcontinuing to grow and get
better 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And where do you see this industry heading?
I'm talking about sales ingeneral.
Do you think it's gonna getharder or easier?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Because it's constantly.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I've noticed it's just getting harder and
harder because there's just somuch saturation.
So do you think it's gonnacontinue getting harder or yeah
for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Sales is always gonna get more and more complex.
You know, you think about it.
Years ago, salesperson, go outand tell people about what
they're selling, what they'redoing, and you know your
education was a bigger part ofthe job.
Today, think about when you buysomething.
You go online, you research.
You've done all, you've doneall your homework before you
ever even talked to somebody.
You know exactly what's outthere.
You know where they are, whatthey do and so how does that
(16:17):
person add value?
And you know that becomes socritically important on how they
can really understand and linkit back and add the right type
of value.
And that's a skill I think wehave to.
We've gotta move that needleacross the industry because it's
gonna get harder, it's gonnaget more complex, it's gonna get
(16:38):
harder to get in front ofpeople, so it'll continue to get
more challenging.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, 100%.
I read a post on LinkedIn theother day.
It was a simple quote.
It said sellers aren't sellinganymore.
Buyers are buy, which basicallymeans that if someone's going
to buy something, they are goingto do the research.
They're going to look up thecompetition, they're gonna look
up the different prices and thedifferentiation comes in some of
the time the salesperson andhow they present the offer.
(17:10):
Because if you're gonna buy asoftware, you're gonna do your
research right.
You're not gonna just take theword of some guy calling you.
You're gonna do your researchright.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You're right.
Well, I think what you said isimportant, as long as
salespeople realize that it'snot about being passive and
thinking well, they're justgonna buy.
You know you have to go out andfind people that match your
ideal customer profile and lookand reach out to the right level
in that company and offer value.
You know, I think, that youhave to come from a point of
(17:41):
service.
How can I give, how can I addvalue?
And you find the people thathave that need and share with
them freely, and they're gonnaneed your help and when they do,
they're gonna come to you.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, 100%.
And have you had anypartnerships or collaborations
that have been effective ingetting to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Definitely, in fact, the content on our micro
learning modules.
We partnered with a gentlemanby the name of Dick Roof and he
was back in the day.
I don't know if you've heard ofSpin selling back in the day
Neil Rackham but a lot ofresearch and good work was done
in developing a system.
Well, dick Roof was Neil'spartner.
He, you know, co-wrote one ofhis books and it was doing a lot
(18:28):
of research with him as well.
He helped us develop a lot ofour micro learning modules.
Our content is really strongand solid.
We also have another contentpartner that helped us with our
business acumen content and hewas the creator.
He's a partner of ours and thecreator of the content and he's
also a bestselling author of abook called Profit Heroes.
(18:50):
So what it does is make surethat the micro learning module
content we have is just, youknow, top of the line.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That we're back at yeah, 100%.
And is this available to theaverage salesperson, or is it
only to your corporate clients?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So like you're talking about an individual that
might want to connect with you.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Like me.
For example, if I wanted to goand improve my sales skills, is
there a way for me to purchaseyour course and go through it?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, so typically we're.
We are going through companies.
You know it's the issue of thecompany because we're working
with the leadership in there.
However, I do have a copy ofour book.
That's, in fact, your listenerswho've made it this far.
If they want to copy the book,they can drop me an email.
I'll give you my email addressis David at level five,
sellingcom.
I'll spell that L E V E L F I VE dot com.
(19:47):
Drop me an email and say youlisten to this podcast.
I'd like to copy the book.
I'll send one out to you.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Amazing, that's awesome, and I think I want one
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Please, I'll send you one, dylan.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Awesome, thank you.
So we have come to the end ofthe podcast, but before we go,
if you could give one piece ofadvice, firstly to business
owners looking to succeed andsecondly to salespeople looking
to succeed, what would thatadvice be?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
You know I would probably give the same advice on
both of them and I mentioned alittle bit earlier focus on
serving.
You know I think you mentionedearlier.
You know it's not about sellingpeople.
You know people help people buy.
You know it's really focused onserving.
Give give freely, give yourcontent freely, help people to
be better and you know many willwant to scale up and they'll
(20:39):
want to use your concepts withinthe organization.
They'll want to help inexecution and they'll reach out
to you.
But help you know and giveinformation freely.
I found that to be an effectiveway of getting a business going
and started.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Thank you so much and thank youfor your time today, David.
So what is the best way forpeople to reach out to David
Pearson?
I know you mentioned your email, but do you want to say it
again and if there are any otherways, you can mention them now.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, I appreciate, dylan, I mentioned so our
website is levelfivesellingcom,all spelled out, and you can.
You can find out about ourbusiness and also, like I said,
drop me an email if you wouldlike to see the copy of the book
.
I'll be happy to drop one.
Send one out to you, david, atlevelfivesellingcom.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Amazing.
Thank you so much again.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Appreciate it.
Dylan, have a good day.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You too.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the growing Lean
podcast sponsored by LeanDiscovery Group, an
award-winning software and appdevelopment firm based out of
Virginia.
This is your host, dylan Burke,also known as Deech, and I'm
happy to be here today withDavid Pearson, ceo at Level 5
Selling.
Welcome, david.
Thanks, dylan, great to be withyou.
Yeah, I'm excited to learn moreabout your business.
(00:25):
On that note, can you start usoff by telling us a little bit
about yourself, your history andhow you ended up doing what you
do today?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, sounds good, dylan.
Hey, when I got out of college,I went into the sales training
and consulting business and Ispent 11 years there, going from
selling all the way up toleading the entire sales force.
The company I was with is avery well-known global brand and
I think that intellectualproperty is game-changing it's
some of the best out there.
But I found that a lot of theclients didn't get the results
(01:01):
they expected because theytreated it like a sales training
event Check the box, come in,run it and they go back there
always pretty quickly.
When I left there, I went on toa sales force.
I went on to lead a sales forceand ended up taking over sales
for a publicly traded companywith about 1,000 salespeople and
about $3 billion in sales Guys.
Pretty quickly, the frontlinesales leadership was the
(01:23):
absolute key to success.
I got this passion around thatparticular topic and I connected
up with a friend of mine, johnHoskins.
I've known him for many yearsand he had written some books on
this topic.
He said, david, we're growingthis business fast right now.
Why don't you come over and bea partner with me and let's
build this up to the next level?
That's how I got into whatwe're doing now, today, and
(01:46):
really focusing on how we makesales leaders just masterful
coaches who can develop and liftthe rest of the sales
organization.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's amazing.
Is that specific to anyindustry?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's not.
Actually.
We focus on B2B type industries, so we're not so much on the
B2C world, but actually ourclient base ranges from you name
it biotech, pharma,manufacturing, insurance,
everything that spans across theboard, just where they're sales
leaders, and it tends to be ina more complex selling
(02:19):
environment in a business tobusiness spot.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay, okay, that's awesome.
Yeah, I've been in sales forthe past six, seven years
started in real estate, thenwent to finance, now most
recently in tech, and yeah, it'sa super interesting space to be
in sales in general, DefinitelyI'm a sales leader.
Yeah, exactly.
Can you walk us through youroverall strategy for your
(02:45):
business?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, well it's we're all about developing front line
sales leaders to be masterfulcoaches and we give them the
tools to be successful atdeveloping salespeople in the
normal course of business.
And that's the key to what wedo.
You know, we've just found thatthe front line sales leaders
absolutely the key to drivingsuccess and impact and if they
(03:09):
can do the right types ofcoaching of salespeople, you can
elevate the conversations thatare occurring and change the
results that people are seeingdramatically.
And so our business is reallyhelping helping companies and
chief sales officers executetheir sales strategy through
getting their sales leadersdoing the right types of things
to build the business.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Okay, okay, and your clients are they.
Are they all like enterpriseclients, or how many employees
do they typically typically have?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, it's a good question.
It ranges in size prettydramatically.
We have customers that havewell over 1000 salespeople and
in fact our number one customersis is is closer to 3000
salespeople, but the you know wehave customers as small as 15
to 20 salespeople to, so it's apretty wide range in there.
I'd say most of the customerswe have, if you take that just
(04:03):
the bulk, are probably between50 and 100 salespeople somewhere
in that range.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Okay, okay, awesome.
And have you adapted to changesin the industry?
I know if I correct me.
If I'm wrong, you startedduring 2020, right, and I was
like bang in the middle of thepandemic.
How did you, firstly, how comethat came about, starting in the
middle of the pandemic?
(04:29):
Was it was that part of yourreason for starting the business
, or was just coincidental?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, no, no, actually we started the business
pre pandemic and we had achange dramatically because
suddenly you're not getting inperson with people and we're
able to deliver, deliver a lotvirtually so that that part did
change.
You know, I think the bigchanges that are happening in
the the industry is that.
You know, I think there's beena trend for many years that
(04:57):
people go to you, get hired in acompany.
You go to sales training.
They use a certain salestraining.
They send you in.
You go check the box.
You know we put Dylan throughtraining and you know you go
back to your old ways prettyquickly.
And the reality is that that'sjust not how we learn.
You know we learn in small,bite sized chunks and I give the
example a lot.
I'll say you know, if you wereto take me to a golf course and
(05:22):
put me in front of golf pro, thegolf pro can give me 10 things
to work on.
I'm not going to do a M Well,I'm going to.
I won't you give me too much.
Give me one or two things towork on.
I can work on over and over andover again.
I can practice it and as I getbetter at it, you can then add.
The pro can add more on.
Same thing with how we learn.
You've got to learn a little inlittle, bite sized chunks, and
(05:43):
so when you coach properly, youcan say, hey, this is where
David needs the most help andyou can focus directly in on
that and give me something shortand simple that I can work on
and improve.
When I improve, that you canadd on.
That's what.
That's some of the I think someof the trend changes that we're
seeing is just how people arelearning and how we need.
We need bite sized, quickthings that we can get.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, okay.
And how do you track theprogress of your clients team,
or is that up to them?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, yeah, we track the progress really closely
because we have two things thatwe do.
We create level five salesleaders and that's where the
level five comes in, and we findthere are five different types
of leaders out there and whenthey get to that top level,
which is a true performancepartner, they're spending 80% of
the time asking questions andlistening and guiding the
(06:38):
salesperson and 20% of theirtime telling.
That's a big thing.
That happens when they becomethat performance partner.
So we want to create that typeof a sales leader and then they
will.
Then when they become the righttype of you know they're
leading and coaching properly.
We want to create level fivesales conversations and we found
there are five different typesof sales conversations that
(07:00):
happen and I can certainly walkthrough those five.
But what happens is those thatare in level four and five we
found sell usually in most ofour customers they sell two X
more than those who are sellinga level one, two and three
regularly, and so you thinkabout that and usually it's
about 30% of the salespeople arein level four and five versus
(07:22):
one, two and three.
Now what happens is we findthat we can move through
coaching 40% of those people inlevel one, two and three over
the level four and five and whenyou do that you've got now you
think about the impact of thatof 40% of your people being able
to get over to level four andfive, where they can do two X
more in sales.
It's a big number yeah.
(07:44):
And we track that every quarter,based on how people are moving
up those levels.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, amazing, that's awesome.
And do you have any specifictactics or tools that have been
effective in growing yourbusiness?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, when you talk about growing the business, I
share with you a little bitabout that level five selling
model, and I'll share it reallyquickly because it won't take
very long and I think yourlisteners may appreciate it.
We found there's five types ofsales calls that occur out there
sales conversations and this isthrough Equipmenter Research
and now a lot of work with manycustomers.
(08:18):
But a level one sales call is aprofessional visitor, and this
is where they believe that youbelieve that friends buy from
friends.
It's all about the relationshipand you know more about the
person's kids and you abouttheir boss.
The fact is is that we need todevelop relationships, but if
that's all we do, we're notgoing to be successful.
Get to a level two, you're aprice seller.
It's all about the price.
(08:40):
Say what are you paying, I canget you a better price.
Your product becomes a pricelist.
Sometimes the sales person istrying to have a good
conversation, they're trying tohave value, but they customer
drags them at a price and theydon't know to get back to a
value discussion.
That's a level two call.
Level three is a technicalteller.
Hey, let me tell you why we'reunique, why we're different, why
we're the best.
Let me get my PowerPointpresentation out.
(09:01):
Let me tell you all about it.
It's that spray and pray typeof a sales approach and that's a
level three.
Dylan, we found in our researchthat about 60% of sales calls
are scrapping waste.
They just don't move the buyingprocess forward, which is
significant.
I mean, it just blows me away.
But most of those happen atlevel one, two and three.
When you get to level four,it's first of all professional
(09:24):
selling, where the sales personis asking good questions or
understanding what's importantto the customer.
They're like back a solution.
They're gaining commitment.
They're differentiating all thethings you'd want of a sales
person, but they're they'refinding a fit for their solution
.
When you get to level five,it's a value creator.
And that value creator is whereyou are now understanding your
customer's customer.
You're understanding theirbusiness in a much broader
(09:45):
perspective and how you can helpthem, you're helping shape
their thinking, you're bringinginsights to the table.
And so those are the fivelevels and, as I mentioned
before, those in four and fivetypically sell two X more than
those in one, two and three.
So our goal is is you canidentify where people
predominantly sell and help movethem over through coaching.
And then we have tools that we49 micro learning modules that
(10:09):
we can use to help get themthere, because there's there's
really 40 plus skills you needto master to be a level five
sales person.
So those are some of the toolsthat we that we use that are
very successful in helping ourcustomers grow their businesses,
and if we can do that, thatgrows our business.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, amazing, amazing.
And these 49 modules is that?
How do they do that?
Is it just like PDFs or videos,or is it for one courses?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
No, their videos are eight to 10 minutes in length
and we have a technologyplatform where they go in and
they view those videos eight to10 minutes in length.
They have because that's reallywhat our attention span is
these days right, and then whenyou get done, you have an
exercise.
So if it's something simplelike opening a call, I'll watch
a video.
And opening a call, I've got atool that I pull down and then I
(10:58):
actually practice opening acall, I can record a video for
my manager Manager can watch itand provide feedback on it.
It makes it really easy toprovide coaching remotely on a
very specific skill thatsomebody might need.
And those video span across allkinds of different areas, from
account you know, call planningand execution, to account
strategy, negotiation, businessacumen.
(11:19):
But they're the key skillsrequired to be a level four or
five salesperson.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And in terms of your businessand getting to where you are
today, what have been thebiggest challenges that you
faced?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
The biggest challenges on getting where we
are today.
I would say that it's kind ofinteresting.
Risk is one that is, I wouldsay, is one of the challenges we
had overcome.
And you know, I think thatsometimes when we're out selling
and talking to people, we failto address the risk.
And I think we did that in thebeginning in this business.
(11:56):
And I'll tell you what happenedis I used to work for a really
well-branded, known company andit's like when you go in and
talk to them about that company,people know it.
They'd say oh yeah, everybodyuses that company.
It's, the risk is a lot less.
When we were getting ourbusiness going, a lot of people
had not heard of level fiveselling and level five coaching
system and so it's a risk, andso we actually really thought
(12:20):
about how we can remove thatrisk and now we have a way that
people can we guarantee theresults.
If they don't see results in 90days, they don't pay and they
don't continue paying.
So it's, you know, it's kind ofa SAS type model, that kind of
more of a you know learning as aservice and if they don't have
(12:41):
to continue on.
But we know that people getresults quickly and I think
addressing that risk was a bigkey for us.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And I think that's for probably a lot of people's
businesses.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
We have to.
You have to really address therisk component and take the risk
out of it for people to makethe decision easier 100%, and
what stage of growth are you onin terms of your business?
Well, we're in a pretty rapidgrowth phase right now because
we've got a pretty nice clientbase now and so as we start
(13:13):
working with these you know wework with these clients they see
results and that just drivesmore business and more
opportunity for us.
So we're in a pretty we've gota very strong product and
solution.
You know, I think theintellectual property is all
there and it's more a matter ofgetting it out into more
(13:33):
people's hands, and that's whatwe're doing now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, 100%.
And in terms of yoursatisfaction with your business
operations and the level you'reat, what would you rate that out
of 10 if today?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh, I'd say probably maybe an eight, seven or eight,
somewhere in that range.
There's always more room to go.
You know, we're constantlylooking at getting better and
getting more efficient and howcan we make it easier for our
customers, and I just want tostay focused on that.
How do we?
You know, I think I'm at apoint in my life, dylan, where
(14:10):
I've done a lot of really coolthings in my career and I really
want to make a big impact, andso whatever we can do to make it
easier and create even biggerimpact, we're always looking to
do that.
So more to go it's a neverending game.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, 100%.
And then if we were to sit downagain in the 12 months time and
everything that has gone,everything that could go right,
has gone right in your business,what would the business look
like and what would you rate itout of 10?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Well, it's a good question.
If we were forward, we'd havecustomers that are using our
service on a regular basis.
They're continuing to see valuein it year after year.
They're renewing agreementswith us because they see the
value and you know it's buildinga subscriber base and having a
(15:04):
really strong subscriber basethat is telling others about it
and referring.
I think that you know my goalwould be to be that kind of a
household name in the world ofsales and sales leadership in
the next few years.
So you know, doing that thatwould probably put me up there
higher on the number of one to10.
Although I don't want to go toomuch higher because you can't
(15:26):
ever be satisfied.
If I get satisfied, we're notcontinuing to grow and get
better 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And where do you see this industry heading?
I'm talking about sales ingeneral.
Do you think it's gonna getharder or easier?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Because it's constantly.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I've noticed it's just getting harder and
harder because there's just somuch saturation.
So do you think it's gonnacontinue getting harder or yeah
for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Sales is always gonna get more and more complex.
You know, you think about it.
Years ago, salesperson, go outand tell people about what
they're selling, what they'redoing, and you know your
education was a bigger part ofthe job.
Today, think about when you buysomething.
You go online, you research.
You've done all, you've doneall your homework before you
ever even talked to somebody.
You know exactly what's outthere.
You know where they are, whatthey do and so how does that
(16:17):
person add value?
And you know that becomes socritically important on how they
can really understand and linkit back and add the right type
of value.
And that's a skill I think wehave to.
We've gotta move that needleacross the industry because it's
gonna get harder, it's gonnaget more complex, it's gonna get
(16:38):
harder to get in front ofpeople, so it'll continue to get
more challenging.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, 100%.
I read a post on LinkedIn theother day.
It was a simple quote.
It said sellers aren't sellinganymore.
Buyers are buy, which basicallymeans that if someone's going
to buy something, they are goingto do the research.
They're going to look up thecompetition, they're gonna look
up the different prices and thedifferentiation comes in some of
the time the salesperson andhow they present the offer.
(17:10):
Because if you're gonna buy asoftware, you're gonna do your
research right.
You're not gonna just take theword of some guy calling you.
You're gonna do your researchright.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You're right.
Well, I think what you said isimportant, as long as
salespeople realize that it'snot about being passive and
thinking well, they're justgonna buy.
You know you have to go out andfind people that match your
ideal customer profile and lookand reach out to the right level
in that company and offer value.
You know, I think, that youhave to come from a point of
(17:41):
service.
How can I give, how can I addvalue?
And you find the people thathave that need and share with
them freely, and they're gonnaneed your help and when they do,
they're gonna come to you.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, 100%.
And have you had anypartnerships or collaborations
that have been effective ingetting to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Definitely, in fact, the content on our micro
learning modules.
We partnered with a gentlemanby the name of Dick Roof and he
was back in the day.
I don't know if you've heard ofSpin selling back in the day
Neil Rackham but a lot ofresearch and good work was done
in developing a system.
Well, dick Roof was Neil'spartner.
He, you know, co-wrote one ofhis books and it was doing a lot
(18:28):
of research with him as well.
He helped us develop a lot ofour micro learning modules.
Our content is really strongand solid.
We also have another contentpartner that helped us with our
business acumen content and hewas the creator.
He's a partner of ours and thecreator of the content and he's
also a bestselling author of abook called Profit Heroes.
(18:50):
So what it does is make surethat the micro learning module
content we have is just, youknow, top of the line.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That we're back at yeah, 100%.
And is this available to theaverage salesperson, or is it
only to your corporate clients?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So like you're talking about an individual that
might want to connect with you.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Like me.
For example, if I wanted to goand improve my sales skills, is
there a way for me to purchaseyour course and go through it?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, so typically we're.
We are going through companies.
You know it's the issue of thecompany because we're working
with the leadership in there.
However, I do have a copy ofour book.
That's, in fact, your listenerswho've made it this far.
If they want to copy the book,they can drop me an email.
I'll give you my email addressis David at level five,
sellingcom.
I'll spell that L E V E L F I VE dot com.
(19:47):
Drop me an email and say youlisten to this podcast.
I'd like to copy the book.
I'll send one out to you.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Amazing, that's awesome, and I think I want one
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Please, I'll send you one, dylan.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Awesome, thank you.
So we have come to the end ofthe podcast, but before we go,
if you could give one piece ofadvice, firstly to business
owners looking to succeed andsecondly to salespeople looking
to succeed, what would thatadvice be?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
You know I would probably give the same advice on
both of them and I mentioned alittle bit earlier focus on
serving.
You know I think you mentionedearlier.
You know it's not about sellingpeople.
You know people help people buy.
You know it's really focused onserving.
Give give freely, give yourcontent freely, help people to
be better and you know many willwant to scale up and they'll
(20:39):
want to use your concepts withinthe organization.
They'll want to help inexecution and they'll reach out
to you.
But help you know and giveinformation freely.
I found that to be an effectiveway of getting a business going
and started.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Thank you so much and thank youfor your time today, David.
So what is the best way forpeople to reach out to David
Pearson?
I know you mentioned your email, but do you want to say it
again and if there are any otherways, you can mention them now.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, I appreciate, dylan, I mentioned so our
website is levelfivesellingcom,all spelled out, and you can.
You can find out about ourbusiness and also, like I said,
drop me an email if you wouldlike to see the copy of the book
.
I'll be happy to drop one.
Send one out to you, david, atlevelfivesellingcom.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Amazing.
Thank you so much again.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Appreciate it.
Dylan, have a good day.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You too.
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