Embark on a digital odyssey with Jim Stern, digital analytics virtuoso, as he narrates his pioneering journey from the web's nascent days to the cusp of AI's generative frontier. Glean insights from Jim's storied career, tracing the arc from basic log file analysis to the Marketing Analytics Summit's inception, and behold the vista of analytics' progression to machine learning and AI marvels. Revisit the communal spirit that united early internet data whisperers and discover the present-day parallels with the generative AI buzz. Whether a veteran digital analyst or a curious novice, this episode promises to connect the dots across time, technology, and community.
Strategizing for growth isn't just a buzzword; it's a craft—and we're revealing the blueprint to triple your business revenue by 2026. Together with Jim, we dissect the essence of goal-setting, demonstrating how to distill lofty ambitions into achievable, short-term objectives. Hear our three-month action plan, from research to rollout, designed to spark emotional clarity and prevent the paralysis of overwhelm. As AI continues to reshape the business landscape, we investigate its potential to amplify, not replace, human efforts, ensuring that your growth trajectory is as human as it is algorithmic.
As we sift through the sands of time, distinguishing traditional AI from its generative counterpart becomes key. The conversation veers into the transformative power harnessable by businesses today, positioning generative AI as a strategic co-pilot for innovation and complex problem-solving. Yet, we caution against the trap of AI's penchant for redundancy, advocating for its role as a catalyst in the creative process. Wrapping up, Jim leaves us with a potent maxim: It's the precision of execution, not just the spark of innovation, that carves the path to enduring success. Join us for an episode that's as much a masterclass in digital analytics as it is a guide to thriving in business through execution.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the growing Lean
podcast sponsored by LeanDiscovery Group, an
award-winning software and appdevelopment firm based out of
Virginia.
This is your host, dylan Burke,also known as Dege, and I'm
happy to be here today with JimStern, author, consultant and
founder of the MarketingAnalytics Summit.
Welcome, jim.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thanks very much, dege.
My pleasure and an honor to behere.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
The pleasure is all mine.
I'm excited to interview you.
Well, you say that now we'llsee how it goes.
Well, let's see, let's see.
So how did you first getstarted in your industry and can
you tell us about the historyand background of the business?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So my industry is digital analytics measuring the
success of all of your digitalmarketing.
How did I get into it?
Well, I tripped over theinternet in 1993 and thought, oh
, this is going to change things.
And started doing publicspeaking and writing books about
how to do marketing onlinemarketing, advertising, customer
(01:04):
service, email and in about2000, I realized that it wasn't
just my opinion that mattered.
We could measure whether or notyour website really sucked.
So I became interested in webanalytics, started the Marketing
Analytics Summit in 2002.
It was called the E-MetricsSummit.
(01:26):
Back then, the audience createdthe Digital Analytics
Association, and so I've beenfocused on all of that ever
since.
Now analytics started out withhey, we have log files and there
must be some value in that data.
And then we started gettingbetter technology.
Oh, and then it wasn't justwebsite, it was email and social
(01:48):
and search and and and, sodigital analytics.
And then analytics got verysophisticated and I had to learn
about machine learning or AI.
So that was my 12th book is theartificial intelligence in
marketing practical applications.
But that was 2017.
So that was just machinelearning.
(02:09):
Now, of course, everybody'sexcited about generative AI and,
yes, that will be my next book.
I got into the industry by beingI'm something of a performer
and an educator and I loverunning workshops and doing
public speaking, so that was somuch fun.
(02:29):
When the conference that I wasreally focused on getting my
clients from speaking was calledInternet World, the founder of
that sold it to a company thatthen went bankrupt, so that
conference just disappearedovernight Like, oh well, I guess
I'll start my own.
So if I had to say what's myindustry?
I produce business conferencesfor a living, but my stock in
(02:55):
trade is consulting on how doyou do digital analytics really
well and how do you, how do youmaintain customer relationships
really well and how do you dobusiness transformation from
digital transformation to AItransformation and now
generative AI transformation.
That's my history in a nutshell, if you will.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Okay, amazing, amazing.
I love that.
And before we dive any deeperthere, I want to.
I'm just curious and excuse myignorance, but can you tell me
what it was like in the early2000s, with the internet coming
along and all of that?
I'm sure that, like, were therea lot of people who you could
target to do the analytics, forthem to do digital marketing?
(03:39):
No, I'm super curious aboutthat.
That's why I'm asking.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Well, so my first event was in 2002, is going to
be in 2001.
But there was this, this thingthat happened on September 11th
that everybody said, yeah, no,we're kind of don't want to get
on airplanes for a while.
So it was in 2002.
I had 50 people show up at myconference in Santa Barbara.
30 of them were vendors, one ofthem were consultants and 10 of
(04:11):
them were actually people whowere actually doing the work for
brands who might need to buythose tools and those services.
The audience was absolutelythrilled the day, the minute we
started, that, oh, these peopleknow what I do for a living and
nobody else in my company does.
And it's like in the in the mid1990s, the, every company had
(04:34):
one webmaster oh, you run thatinternet thing, isn't that
adorable.
And then it grew into a wholeteam.
Well, in 2000, it was oneanalyst and now, of course, it's
teams of people.
It takes a village to doanalytics.
But back then, oh, these are mypeople, this is my tribe, and
it was very exciting.
And those people who came tothat conference and have been
(04:58):
coming for the last 22 yearshave were the core of the
industry and have grown to bechief analytics officers, chief
executive officers, directors ofdata science and have remained
well connected ever sinceliterally community.
(05:20):
So the exciting part was wewere inventing it as we went
along.
And if you look at all of theexcitements around generative AI
today, it's, it's, it's arepeat.
So in 1995, we were all excitedabout what this internet could
do and what it could be when itgrew up.
(05:41):
And in 2000, we were allexcited about, oh, what
analytics can do.
And today everybody's thrilledabout, wow, generative AI is so
unique, it's so new and it'slike, oh, this feels like.
I've been there.
I've heard this, this musicbefore, I've played this game.
It's fun.
Every conversation is a newbusiness model.
(06:01):
We are inventing it as we goalong.
That's, that's why I stuck withit.
It's just so you learnsomething new every single day.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm like super excited aboutwhat's going on at the moment
and a bit nervous and a bitexcited and a bit scared for the
next like 10 years.
Yes, because I think we're atsuch a pivotal point in human
and technological evolution thatthe speed of evolution is just
going to skyrocket.
(06:30):
And yes, like all the changethat's happened in my lifetime
26 years we're going to I reckonwe're going to see that that
same level of change in the nextfive years, and it's quite a
terrifying thought.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
The rate of change is increasing.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yes, yes, exactly, but it's exciting and I'm
staying positive.
Yeah, and yeah, what have beenthe biggest challenges for you?
Let's talk like early days inthe business.
What were the biggestchallenges then?
Getting your business up andrunning and, yeah, really
establishing yourself in theindustry.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Explaining to people what my vision was In 1994 and
95, when I'm doing seminars onmarketing on the internet.
I did a five city tour in 1995.
I had the last one was inSilicon Valley, was in San Jose,
(07:31):
and there's a couple hundredpeople in the room said how many
people have an email address?
And half the hands went up howmany people have seen the
worldwide web?
And about 15 or 20 hands wentup like okay, let me explain,
and it's important for youunderstand what the internet is
(07:51):
so that you can understand therest of what I'm about to tell
you.
Let me describe the differencebetween making a phone call,
which is point to point, orpacket switching, which is how
the internet works.
This is what a packet is.
This is.
This is why it was created.
This is how it works.
Everybody's going.
Why are you bothering me withthis?
Because it's now wholemarketing instead of push
marketing.
(08:12):
It's a whole different world.
Let's dive in.
The tough part is getting thatbreakthrough.
It's so generative AI.
Let me explain what a largelanguage model actually does
technically, so that you don'tuse it for the wrong thing.
I've always gravitated towardbeing the professional explainer
(08:34):
.
I love being able to takesomething that is exciting but
complex, and turning it intobusiness language, a business
owner can say, oh okay, I get it, now I can use it.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Okay, yeah, 100 percent.
I keep coming back to the factthat you've been around since
the 90s.
I'm old, yes, it's not a shotat your age, it's a shot at my
age, because you started beforeI was even born.
It's really interesting to me.
But, with that being said, howdid you adapt to all the changes
(09:12):
that have happened in not onlytechnology, but just the global
economy, like the crash of 2007,2008, the pandemic?
How have you adapted, as abusiness owner, to those changes
?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
One of the benefits of age is that you see something
coming and you go okay, I'veseen this before.
When I first started doingconferences if I had had hair I
would have said I tore my hairout, but it just drove me crazy
because there were so manythings that would go wrong and
it was constant juggle.
(09:46):
I finally teamed up with abusiness partner 18 years ago
who said look, jim, there are427 things that can go wrong in
a conference and 75 of them will.
Once you've dealt with them acouple of times, you go okay,
that's what happened again.
Oh, the AV guy showed up drunk.
(10:09):
Yeah, I've been there before.
Oh, the set fell over onto theaudience.
Yeah, I've seen that happen.
The keynote speaker didn't showup.
Oh, yeah, okay, we know how todeal with that.
It's frightening and life isfrightening and business is
frightening.
Oh, here's the great recessionof 2008 and the housing crunch.
Well, okay, how do we addressthe audience?
(10:33):
Well, before you were lookingat your data because it's
interesting.
Now you're looking at your databecause it's going to keep you
alive.
So you have to come to thisconference, you have to read
this book.
You need me to come in and do aworkshop for you, because it's
tough times it's like, okay, soI can survive that one.
But change, I think it's acharacter trait.
(10:54):
I have always gravitated towardchange.
My first job out of school wasselling Apple IIe computers out
of a retail store.
Let me explain to you what acomputer is.
Then I sold business computersto companies that had never
owned one before.
This is how you can trust yourfile cabinets full of paper to
(11:15):
this weird little box with ascreen.
It'll be okay, trust me.
So when change comes along.
I wrote my web metrics book andit came out in 2002.
Then the conference took overand I didn't write another book
until it was time to writesocial media metrics, because
(11:37):
that was so different that wehave to figure out how to do
that.
Then change was okay, fine.
Then suddenly, oh, machinelearning okay, now it's time for
another book.
Now, oh, big change, generativeAI yeah, here we go again.
So I think the way I'vesurvived is embracing change.
I enjoy it.
I have studied changemanagement so I can help
(11:58):
companies figure out how do youbring generative AI capabilities
into the company.
Here is a formal plan that youhave to accomplish before you
can start getting wildlycreative, which is the fun part.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I love that.
I love that answer.
I've never had that answer.
I think that's awesome.
It's an amazing great to havebe able to adapt to change.
I know I didn't adapt too wellwhen the pandemic hit.
It was just such a big shock.
I was in real estate at thetime, which isn't very much an
in-person job where you have tovisit people, go to houses, and
(12:35):
so we just completely shut down.
I think it was for two months.
There was nothing to do.
I was stuck at home, but I wasstill living with my dad.
It was just us, I go.
It was such a crazy time and Iwas just shocked.
I didn't know what to do, so Iwas just stuck at home.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Real estate business took a hit Producing business
conferences.
I'm afraid COVID was not kindto us.
We did virtual events and peoplewent.
It was a curve.
First it was this is weird, andthen it was okay, this is
normal.
And then you know what?
I'll just watch YouTube videos.
(13:13):
Why are you having this eventonline?
I don't get it.
So some people figured out howto do that.
Well, in my industry, therewere a couple of organizations
that said, yeah, we're going tostep up and do these online
Measure Summit.
I mean, if you're a digitalanalyst, you've probably heard
of Measure Summit All online,lots of education, hundreds of
(13:36):
speakers Amazing.
It's not my jam.
My predilection is let's meetin person, let's have a
conversation, let's eat lunchtogether, let's go to the lobby
bar with a group of people andhave a spirited conversation
about the topics of our choice.
That's why I do it.
(13:56):
The speakers yeah, they're good, they're interesting, but it's
the getting together and doingthings with other people.
That's the fun part.
So I'm very glad that at myconference, the Marketing
Analytics Summit, attendance for2023 was higher than it was in
2019.
So we've recovered from COVIDsort of.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's amazing.
That's really awesome.
I am seeing now that someindustries are coming back
stronger than they were.
I think people are justflooding back Once they realize
it's safe.
People are just flooding backand they're ready to get going
again.
But that's great.
You told me that you use afoolproof planning process that
(14:40):
companies of any size can use.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It's so straightforward.
A friend of mine wrote a bookcalled Scale at Speed and one of
the chapters is about doingthis planning.
And it's so straightforward andit's so brute force, logical
that it's amazing that everybodydoesn't already do it.
So you identify the end of twoyears from now.
(15:09):
It's January of 2026.
Where do you want to be?
Well, I want to have tripled myrevenue.
I want to double my customersize.
I want to have built my team upto be like okay, but pick a
very specific goal.
All right, triple my revenue,okay, good, in order to have
three times as much revenue comein.
(15:31):
What needs to be in place inJanuary of 2026?
Oh, well, I'll need this manymore salespeople.
I need this more many peopleproducing.
I'll need oh, if I have thatmany more people.
I'm going to need managers.
I'm going to need a humanresource person.
I'm going to need oh, my God,it's just overwhelming.
It's like no, it's not, becausethat's two years from now.
(15:52):
What else will you need inplace?
Well, I'll need to have amarketing revamped.
I'll need to have an advisorycouncil and I'll need that.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
It's like, okay, great, that'sthe vision.
Now, what do you need to havein place one year from today in
order to get you to that placetwo years from now.
(16:12):
Oh well, I'll need these things.
Okay, let's back off all the wayto in the next three months.
What are the five things youneed to change or put in place
Like five things only in thenext three months?
Well, we got to get our billingbetter, we got to fix our
website, we've got to pop, pop,pop pop.
(16:34):
And when you've mapped theseout order by quarter for the
next two years, it's anoverwhelming number of things.
It's like, oh my God, how am Ipossibly?
It's like, no, you've only gotfive things that you're going to
do in the next three months.
Month one oh, and these fivethings you give each one to an
(16:55):
individual.
Each person on your growth teamhas one thing they're
responsible for above and beyondtheir day job those five people
are working in over the nextthree months.
First month is research Readbooks, go on the internet, ask,
chat, ept, ask your friends inyour family, do your research,
(17:18):
just find out how other peopleare doing it.
The second month prototypebuild the thing or the process
or the wireframe for the website, whatever it is.
And the third month is rollout.
So I'm going to do my research,build a prototype which is a
lot of working with the rest ofthe company to how this
(17:39):
prototype is going to work.
And then the last month is rollit out and at the end of three
months you've changed fivebusiness processes.
You've implemented differentways of doing things, different
tools that you're going to use,different.
You've changed how the businessworks.
At the end of a year you'vechanged 20 things and that has
(18:03):
set you up.
So that year two wow, you canreally rock and roll and hit
that goal.
It is brute force simplistic tosay, but when you sit down to
do it, okay, we're going tospend a whole day in a workshop.
We're going to brainstormhere's the goal, what we need in
(18:24):
place, what has to happen now.
It's heavy lifting, it'sserious thought.
It's like close the businessdown for the day so you can
focus on what is my goal and, byGod, that is the North Star and
what are all the things we needin place to make it happen.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Amazing.
It's actually funny that youlaid it out like that, as in
breaking down the timeline,because I recently had a goal
setting session with my coach ormentor, whatever you want to
call it and I was like yeah, Iwant to do this by the end of
the year.
I want to do this by two yearstime.
And she was like, okay, that'sgreat, but what do you need to
do in the next six months to setyou up for that?
(19:04):
And then I was like okay, Ineed to do this.
And she was like okay, what doyou need to do in the next three
months to get to those sixmonths?
And then we got down to onemonth and two weeks and one week
, and it's super helpful to dothat, especially for me.
I'm like extremely ADHD, so whenI see a lot of things, my brain
just shuts down and I can't doany of them.
So when I break it down intosmaller tasks, it makes it a lot
(19:28):
easier to understand, and Ithink that's the same for
business owners.
And it's like you need to likeobviously, you need to focus on
the bigger picture, but you needto break it down into what you
need to do today.
That'll set you up for yourweek goals and what will those
week goals set you up for yourmonth goals and etc.
Etc.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I found it to be emotionally reassuring.
I've got, I've got 35 things,big things I need to do.
No, no, no, you have five, onlyfive, and today you're only
going to work on one of them.
But all these other things, no,you're actually not going to
think about those at all,because none of that can happen
(20:06):
until you do this one thing.
It's like, okay, now I canfocus.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Exactly, exactly, and it's a super great way of
thinking and it's great.
It's crazy that you broughtthat up like the day after I had
the session with my coach.
That's awesome.
I love that.
I'll just check the time, jim,but we are running out, but I do
want to chat to you a littlebit more.
I want to hear your thoughts onAI and how you think it can
(20:35):
assist businesses.
I want to hear your thoughts onthat, like, where do you think
it's going to?
I don't want to say replacehumans, but help humans and
speed up processes.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
First of all, ai.
I divide up into two groups.
There's traditional AI, whichis machine learning which I
wrote about in 2017, which isdeterministic.
This is statistics.
This is if you'd have thisinput, you get that output, and
if you're doing work that mightbe scrutinized by regulatory
committees, that's importantthat you can reproduce.
(21:13):
Why did you ensure this personand not that person?
Here's the algorithm, here'sthe data, here's how it works,
good.
Then there's generative AInon-deterministic.
You can ask it the same questionfive times.
You will get five differentanswers.
So businesses will get valueout of it if they understand.
It is not a database.
(21:34):
It's not a search engine.
It's not a calculator.
It's not an encyclopedia.
We have always used computersfor memory and calculation.
This is a different animal.
This is a cognitive aid.
This is a brainstorming tool.
This is a critical thinkingsupport mechanism.
(21:56):
Don't ask it for answers.
Ask it for its opinion.
Ask it to be your strategicadvisor.
Let me break that down toabsolute tactical.
There's something in chat, gptthat's called custom
instructions.
You can say every time I askyou a question, keep this stuff
in mind, one of the custominstructions that I've given.
(22:17):
It is every time I give you aprompt, I want you to ask me
three questions that will helpyou execute the prompt.
And then, when I answer thosequestions, ask me three more
questions and repeat until I usethe word done.
So I have asked it to help meask it questions and sometimes I
(22:42):
forget that I've done that andit's like do this thing?
It's like, well, wait a minute,I have a few questions for you,
just like a good consultantwould do.
And I go, oh, that's right, I'msupposed to.
Well, wait, those are reallygood questions.
I hadn't thought about that.
Well, here's the answer to this, here's the answer to that.
That one doesn't matter.
And then it asked me three morequestions like, oh, okay, well,
this, this, this and this.
Then ask me three more.
It's like, okay, I'm bored, Ineed the answer.
(23:03):
Done, execute.
If companies realize that it'sthis different kind of cognitive
tool and not a deterministicthing.
It is a mentor, it is aconsultant, it is a
brainstorming sidekick buddy whoknows more about things and has
(23:25):
read more business books andunderstands humans better than
ever.
But if you think you're goingto use this generative AI thing
to create something that you cancopy and paste, you're fooling
yourself.
It's not going to.
It's not going to help you.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, for sure.
I've even noticed that myself.
I remember when it first cameout I was like super excited
making LinkedIn posts, all thattype of thing, and then I just
started like reading otherpeople's LinkedIn posts that
were AI generated and it justgot so repetitive and so boring
and I was like I can't do thisanymore, because that's what
(24:00):
it's designed to do.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
It's designed to give you the most vanilla thing,
because a large language modelstatistically figures out what
the next word should be.
The most likely next word isvanilla.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Exactly exactly.
So now I've stopped using it towrite copy for me.
I do use it to like scrollcheck and grammar check and that
type of thing, but it's morefor ideas and if I have a
calculation or something that Idon't want to go on a calculator
, sometimes I just play aroundand have fun with it and see
what, how far I can push it, andthat's really cool as well.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Another example is now, I'm not a graphic artist.
I don't play one on TV.
So I have fun with those tools,but I don't use them.
Graphic artists say forgetusing it for output, use it for
ideas.
I want a horse on the moonthat's playing bridge.
It's like, oh that's.
(24:58):
I see that picture, but that'snot really what I meant, what I
was thinking I wanted.
Now I know better.
It's a cognitive tool.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Exactly, exactly.
And, jim, look, I'd love tocontinue chatting about this,
but we are quite a bit over ourdeadline.
But, before we go, what is the?
What is a piece of advice thatyou'd like to give other
business owners looking tosucceed?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Everything is execution.
I, you know, I started out lifesaying I'm an ideas guy and
everybody I told that to saidnobody cares, ideas are free.
Getting stuff done is where themoney is.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I love that and I someone actually told me that as
well.
It's not about what you do,it's about how you do it, and
you don't need to be innovative,you just need to do it better.
You just didn't get it out thedoor.
Exactly, exactly.
Well, thanks, jim.
Thanks so much for yourinsights.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
What's the best way for?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
what's the best way for our listeners to reach out
to Jim Stern, if you've got anyoffers for them or if they're
looking to just follow you?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
LinkedIn is the best.
My email address is availableeverywhere on the internet.
My domain name is targetingcom.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Amazing Thanks.
So much, jim, thank you.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the growing Lean
podcast sponsored by LeanDiscovery Group, an
award-winning software and appdevelopment firm based out of
Virginia.
This is your host, dylan Burke,also known as Dege, and I'm
happy to be here today with JimStern, author, consultant and
founder of the MarketingAnalytics Summit.
Welcome, jim.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thanks very much, dege.
My pleasure and an honor to behere.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
The pleasure is all mine.
I'm excited to interview you.
Well, you say that now we'llsee how it goes.
Well, let's see, let's see.
So how did you first getstarted in your industry and can
you tell us about the historyand background of the business?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So my industry is digital analytics measuring the
success of all of your digitalmarketing.
How did I get into it?
Well, I tripped over theinternet in 1993 and thought, oh
, this is going to change things.
And started doing publicspeaking and writing books about
how to do marketing onlinemarketing, advertising, customer
(01:04):
service, email and in about2000, I realized that it wasn't
just my opinion that mattered.
We could measure whether or notyour website really sucked.
So I became interested in webanalytics, started the Marketing
Analytics Summit in 2002.
It was called the E-MetricsSummit.
(01:26):
Back then, the audience createdthe Digital Analytics
Association, and so I've beenfocused on all of that ever
since.
Now analytics started out withhey, we have log files and there
must be some value in that data.
And then we started gettingbetter technology.
Oh, and then it wasn't justwebsite, it was email and social
(01:48):
and search and and and, sodigital analytics.
And then analytics got verysophisticated and I had to learn
about machine learning or AI.
So that was my 12th book is theartificial intelligence in
marketing practical applications.
But that was 2017.
So that was just machinelearning.
(02:09):
Now, of course, everybody'sexcited about generative AI and,
yes, that will be my next book.
I got into the industry by beingI'm something of a performer
and an educator and I loverunning workshops and doing
public speaking, so that was somuch fun.
(02:29):
When the conference that I wasreally focused on getting my
clients from speaking was calledInternet World, the founder of
that sold it to a company thatthen went bankrupt, so that
conference just disappearedovernight Like, oh well, I guess
I'll start my own.
So if I had to say what's myindustry?
I produce business conferencesfor a living, but my stock in
(02:55):
trade is consulting on how doyou do digital analytics really
well and how do you, how do youmaintain customer relationships
really well and how do you dobusiness transformation from
digital transformation to AItransformation and now
generative AI transformation.
That's my history in a nutshell, if you will.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Okay, amazing, amazing.
I love that.
And before we dive any deeperthere, I want to.
I'm just curious and excuse myignorance, but can you tell me
what it was like in the early2000s, with the internet coming
along and all of that?
I'm sure that, like, were therea lot of people who you could
target to do the analytics, forthem to do digital marketing?
(03:39):
No, I'm super curious aboutthat.
That's why I'm asking.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Well, so my first event was in 2002, is going to
be in 2001.
But there was this, this thingthat happened on September 11th
that everybody said, yeah, no,we're kind of don't want to get
on airplanes for a while.
So it was in 2002.
I had 50 people show up at myconference in Santa Barbara.
30 of them were vendors, one ofthem were consultants and 10 of
(04:11):
them were actually people whowere actually doing the work for
brands who might need to buythose tools and those services.
The audience was absolutelythrilled the day, the minute we
started, that, oh, these peopleknow what I do for a living and
nobody else in my company does.
And it's like in the in the mid1990s, the, every company had
(04:34):
one webmaster oh, you run thatinternet thing, isn't that
adorable.
And then it grew into a wholeteam.
Well, in 2000, it was oneanalyst and now, of course, it's
teams of people.
It takes a village to doanalytics.
But back then, oh, these are mypeople, this is my tribe, and
it was very exciting.
And those people who came tothat conference and have been
(04:58):
coming for the last 22 yearshave were the core of the
industry and have grown to bechief analytics officers, chief
executive officers, directors ofdata science and have remained
well connected ever sinceliterally community.
(05:20):
So the exciting part was wewere inventing it as we went
along.
And if you look at all of theexcitements around generative AI
today, it's, it's, it's arepeat.
So in 1995, we were all excitedabout what this internet could
do and what it could be when itgrew up.
(05:41):
And in 2000, we were allexcited about, oh, what
analytics can do.
And today everybody's thrilledabout, wow, generative AI is so
unique, it's so new and it'slike, oh, this feels like.
I've been there.
I've heard this, this musicbefore, I've played this game.
It's fun.
Every conversation is a newbusiness model.
(06:01):
We are inventing it as we goalong.
That's, that's why I stuck withit.
It's just so you learnsomething new every single day.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm like super excited aboutwhat's going on at the moment
and a bit nervous and a bitexcited and a bit scared for the
next like 10 years.
Yes, because I think we're atsuch a pivotal point in human
and technological evolution thatthe speed of evolution is just
going to skyrocket.
(06:30):
And yes, like all the changethat's happened in my lifetime
26 years we're going to I reckonwe're going to see that that
same level of change in the nextfive years, and it's quite a
terrifying thought.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
The rate of change is increasing.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yes, yes, exactly, but it's exciting and I'm
staying positive.
Yeah, and yeah, what have beenthe biggest challenges for you?
Let's talk like early days inthe business.
What were the biggestchallenges then?
Getting your business up andrunning and, yeah, really
establishing yourself in theindustry.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Explaining to people what my vision was In 1994 and
95, when I'm doing seminars onmarketing on the internet.
I did a five city tour in 1995.
I had the last one was inSilicon Valley, was in San Jose,
(07:31):
and there's a couple hundredpeople in the room said how many
people have an email address?
And half the hands went up howmany people have seen the
worldwide web?
And about 15 or 20 hands wentup like okay, let me explain,
and it's important for youunderstand what the internet is
(07:51):
so that you can understand therest of what I'm about to tell
you.
Let me describe the differencebetween making a phone call,
which is point to point, orpacket switching, which is how
the internet works.
This is what a packet is.
This is.
This is why it was created.
This is how it works.
Everybody's going.
Why are you bothering me withthis?
Because it's now wholemarketing instead of push
marketing.
(08:12):
It's a whole different world.
Let's dive in.
The tough part is getting thatbreakthrough.
It's so generative AI.
Let me explain what a largelanguage model actually does
technically, so that you don'tuse it for the wrong thing.
I've always gravitated towardbeing the professional explainer
(08:34):
.
I love being able to takesomething that is exciting but
complex, and turning it intobusiness language, a business
owner can say, oh okay, I get it, now I can use it.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Okay, yeah, 100 percent.
I keep coming back to the factthat you've been around since
the 90s.
I'm old, yes, it's not a shotat your age, it's a shot at my
age, because you started beforeI was even born.
It's really interesting to me.
But, with that being said, howdid you adapt to all the changes
(09:12):
that have happened in not onlytechnology, but just the global
economy, like the crash of 2007,2008, the pandemic?
How have you adapted, as abusiness owner, to those changes
?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
One of the benefits of age is that you see something
coming and you go okay, I'veseen this before.
When I first started doingconferences if I had had hair I
would have said I tore my hairout, but it just drove me crazy
because there were so manythings that would go wrong and
it was constant juggle.
(09:46):
I finally teamed up with abusiness partner 18 years ago
who said look, jim, there are427 things that can go wrong in
a conference and 75 of them will.
Once you've dealt with them acouple of times, you go okay,
that's what happened again.
Oh, the AV guy showed up drunk.
(10:09):
Yeah, I've been there before.
Oh, the set fell over onto theaudience.
Yeah, I've seen that happen.
The keynote speaker didn't showup.
Oh, yeah, okay, we know how todeal with that.
It's frightening and life isfrightening and business is
frightening.
Oh, here's the great recessionof 2008 and the housing crunch.
Well, okay, how do we addressthe audience?
(10:33):
Well, before you were lookingat your data because it's
interesting.
Now you're looking at your databecause it's going to keep you
alive.
So you have to come to thisconference, you have to read
this book.
You need me to come in and do aworkshop for you, because it's
tough times it's like, okay, soI can survive that one.
But change, I think it's acharacter trait.
(10:54):
I have always gravitated towardchange.
My first job out of school wasselling Apple IIe computers out
of a retail store.
Let me explain to you what acomputer is.
Then I sold business computersto companies that had never
owned one before.
This is how you can trust yourfile cabinets full of paper to
(11:15):
this weird little box with ascreen.
It'll be okay, trust me.
So when change comes along.
I wrote my web metrics book andit came out in 2002.
Then the conference took overand I didn't write another book
until it was time to writesocial media metrics, because
(11:37):
that was so different that wehave to figure out how to do
that.
Then change was okay, fine.
Then suddenly, oh, machinelearning okay, now it's time for
another book.
Now, oh, big change, generativeAI yeah, here we go again.
So I think the way I'vesurvived is embracing change.
I enjoy it.
I have studied changemanagement so I can help
(11:58):
companies figure out how do youbring generative AI capabilities
into the company.
Here is a formal plan that youhave to accomplish before you
can start getting wildlycreative, which is the fun part.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I love that.
I love that answer.
I've never had that answer.
I think that's awesome.
It's an amazing great to havebe able to adapt to change.
I know I didn't adapt too wellwhen the pandemic hit.
It was just such a big shock.
I was in real estate at thetime, which isn't very much an
in-person job where you have tovisit people, go to houses, and
(12:35):
so we just completely shut down.
I think it was for two months.
There was nothing to do.
I was stuck at home, but I wasstill living with my dad.
It was just us, I go.
It was such a crazy time and Iwas just shocked.
I didn't know what to do, so Iwas just stuck at home.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Real estate business took a hit Producing business
conferences.
I'm afraid COVID was not kindto us.
We did virtual events and peoplewent.
It was a curve.
First it was this is weird, andthen it was okay, this is
normal.
And then you know what?
I'll just watch YouTube videos.
(13:13):
Why are you having this eventonline?
I don't get it.
So some people figured out howto do that.
Well, in my industry, therewere a couple of organizations
that said, yeah, we're going tostep up and do these online
Measure Summit.
I mean, if you're a digitalanalyst, you've probably heard
of Measure Summit All online,lots of education, hundreds of
(13:36):
speakers Amazing.
It's not my jam.
My predilection is let's meetin person, let's have a
conversation, let's eat lunchtogether, let's go to the lobby
bar with a group of people andhave a spirited conversation
about the topics of our choice.
That's why I do it.
(13:56):
The speakers yeah, they're good, they're interesting, but it's
the getting together and doingthings with other people.
That's the fun part.
So I'm very glad that at myconference, the Marketing
Analytics Summit, attendance for2023 was higher than it was in
2019.
So we've recovered from COVIDsort of.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's amazing.
That's really awesome.
I am seeing now that someindustries are coming back
stronger than they were.
I think people are justflooding back Once they realize
it's safe.
People are just flooding backand they're ready to get going
again.
But that's great.
You told me that you use afoolproof planning process that
(14:40):
companies of any size can use.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It's so straightforward.
A friend of mine wrote a bookcalled Scale at Speed and one of
the chapters is about doingthis planning.
And it's so straightforward andit's so brute force, logical
that it's amazing that everybodydoesn't already do it.
So you identify the end of twoyears from now.
(15:09):
It's January of 2026.
Where do you want to be?
Well, I want to have tripled myrevenue.
I want to double my customersize.
I want to have built my team upto be like okay, but pick a
very specific goal.
All right, triple my revenue,okay, good, in order to have
three times as much revenue comein.
(15:31):
What needs to be in place inJanuary of 2026?
Oh, well, I'll need this manymore salespeople.
I need this more many peopleproducing.
I'll need oh, if I have thatmany more people.
I'm going to need managers.
I'm going to need a humanresource person.
I'm going to need oh, my God,it's just overwhelming.
It's like no, it's not, becausethat's two years from now.
(15:52):
What else will you need inplace?
Well, I'll need to have amarketing revamped.
I'll need to have an advisorycouncil and I'll need that.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
It's like, okay, great, that'sthe vision.
Now, what do you need to havein place one year from today in
order to get you to that placetwo years from now.
(16:12):
Oh well, I'll need these things.
Okay, let's back off all the wayto in the next three months.
What are the five things youneed to change or put in place
Like five things only in thenext three months?
Well, we got to get our billingbetter, we got to fix our
website, we've got to pop, pop,pop pop.
(16:34):
And when you've mapped theseout order by quarter for the
next two years, it's anoverwhelming number of things.
It's like, oh my God, how am Ipossibly?
It's like, no, you've only gotfive things that you're going to
do in the next three months.
Month one oh, and these fivethings you give each one to an
(16:55):
individual.
Each person on your growth teamhas one thing they're
responsible for above and beyondtheir day job those five people
are working in over the nextthree months.
First month is research Readbooks, go on the internet, ask,
chat, ept, ask your friends inyour family, do your research,
(17:18):
just find out how other peopleare doing it.
The second month prototypebuild the thing or the process
or the wireframe for the website, whatever it is.
And the third month is rollout.
So I'm going to do my research,build a prototype which is a
lot of working with the rest ofthe company to how this
(17:39):
prototype is going to work.
And then the last month is rollit out and at the end of three
months you've changed fivebusiness processes.
You've implemented differentways of doing things, different
tools that you're going to use,different.
You've changed how the businessworks.
At the end of a year you'vechanged 20 things and that has
(18:03):
set you up.
So that year two wow, you canreally rock and roll and hit
that goal.
It is brute force simplistic tosay, but when you sit down to
do it, okay, we're going tospend a whole day in a workshop.
We're going to brainstormhere's the goal, what we need in
(18:24):
place, what has to happen now.
It's heavy lifting, it'sserious thought.
It's like close the businessdown for the day so you can
focus on what is my goal and, byGod, that is the North Star and
what are all the things we needin place to make it happen.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Amazing.
It's actually funny that youlaid it out like that, as in
breaking down the timeline,because I recently had a goal
setting session with my coach ormentor, whatever you want to
call it and I was like yeah, Iwant to do this by the end of
the year.
I want to do this by two yearstime.
And she was like, okay, that'sgreat, but what do you need to
do in the next six months to setyou up for that?
(19:04):
And then I was like okay, Ineed to do this.
And she was like okay, what doyou need to do in the next three
months to get to those sixmonths?
And then we got down to onemonth and two weeks and one week
, and it's super helpful to dothat, especially for me.
I'm like extremely ADHD, so whenI see a lot of things, my brain
just shuts down and I can't doany of them.
So when I break it down intosmaller tasks, it makes it a lot
(19:28):
easier to understand, and Ithink that's the same for
business owners.
And it's like you need to likeobviously, you need to focus on
the bigger picture, but you needto break it down into what you
need to do today.
That'll set you up for yourweek goals and what will those
week goals set you up for yourmonth goals and etc.
Etc.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I found it to be emotionally reassuring.
I've got, I've got 35 things,big things I need to do.
No, no, no, you have five, onlyfive, and today you're only
going to work on one of them.
But all these other things, no,you're actually not going to
think about those at all,because none of that can happen
(20:06):
until you do this one thing.
It's like, okay, now I canfocus.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Exactly, exactly, and it's a super great way of
thinking and it's great.
It's crazy that you broughtthat up like the day after I had
the session with my coach.
That's awesome.
I love that.
I'll just check the time, jim,but we are running out, but I do
want to chat to you a littlebit more.
I want to hear your thoughts onAI and how you think it can
(20:35):
assist businesses.
I want to hear your thoughts onthat, like, where do you think
it's going to?
I don't want to say replacehumans, but help humans and
speed up processes.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
First of all, ai.
I divide up into two groups.
There's traditional AI, whichis machine learning which I
wrote about in 2017, which isdeterministic.
This is statistics.
This is if you'd have thisinput, you get that output, and
if you're doing work that mightbe scrutinized by regulatory
committees, that's importantthat you can reproduce.
(21:13):
Why did you ensure this personand not that person?
Here's the algorithm, here'sthe data, here's how it works,
good.
Then there's generative AInon-deterministic.
You can ask it the same questionfive times.
You will get five differentanswers.
So businesses will get valueout of it if they understand.
It is not a database.
(21:34):
It's not a search engine.
It's not a calculator.
It's not an encyclopedia.
We have always used computersfor memory and calculation.
This is a different animal.
This is a cognitive aid.
This is a brainstorming tool.
This is a critical thinkingsupport mechanism.
(21:56):
Don't ask it for answers.
Ask it for its opinion.
Ask it to be your strategicadvisor.
Let me break that down toabsolute tactical.
There's something in chat, gptthat's called custom
instructions.
You can say every time I askyou a question, keep this stuff
in mind, one of the custominstructions that I've given.
(22:17):
It is every time I give you aprompt, I want you to ask me
three questions that will helpyou execute the prompt.
And then, when I answer thosequestions, ask me three more
questions and repeat until I usethe word done.
So I have asked it to help meask it questions and sometimes I
(22:42):
forget that I've done that andit's like do this thing?
It's like, well, wait a minute,I have a few questions for you,
just like a good consultantwould do.
And I go, oh, that's right, I'msupposed to.
Well, wait, those are reallygood questions.
I hadn't thought about that.
Well, here's the answer to this, here's the answer to that.
That one doesn't matter.
And then it asked me three morequestions like, oh, okay, well,
this, this, this and this.
Then ask me three more.
It's like, okay, I'm bored, Ineed the answer.
(23:03):
Done, execute.
If companies realize that it'sthis different kind of cognitive
tool and not a deterministicthing.
It is a mentor, it is aconsultant, it is a
brainstorming sidekick buddy whoknows more about things and has
(23:25):
read more business books andunderstands humans better than
ever.
But if you think you're goingto use this generative AI thing
to create something that you cancopy and paste, you're fooling
yourself.
It's not going to.
It's not going to help you.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, for sure.
I've even noticed that myself.
I remember when it first cameout I was like super excited
making LinkedIn posts, all thattype of thing, and then I just
started like reading otherpeople's LinkedIn posts that
were AI generated and it justgot so repetitive and so boring
and I was like I can't do thisanymore, because that's what
(24:00):
it's designed to do.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
It's designed to give you the most vanilla thing,
because a large language modelstatistically figures out what
the next word should be.
The most likely next word isvanilla.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Exactly exactly.
So now I've stopped using it towrite copy for me.
I do use it to like scrollcheck and grammar check and that
type of thing, but it's morefor ideas and if I have a
calculation or something that Idon't want to go on a calculator
, sometimes I just play aroundand have fun with it and see
what, how far I can push it, andthat's really cool as well.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Another example is now, I'm not a graphic artist.
I don't play one on TV.
So I have fun with those tools,but I don't use them.
Graphic artists say forgetusing it for output, use it for
ideas.
I want a horse on the moonthat's playing bridge.
It's like, oh that's.
(24:58):
I see that picture, but that'snot really what I meant, what I
was thinking I wanted.
Now I know better.
It's a cognitive tool.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Exactly, exactly.
And, jim, look, I'd love tocontinue chatting about this,
but we are quite a bit over ourdeadline.
But, before we go, what is the?
What is a piece of advice thatyou'd like to give other
business owners looking tosucceed?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Everything is execution.
I, you know, I started out lifesaying I'm an ideas guy and
everybody I told that to saidnobody cares, ideas are free.
Getting stuff done is where themoney is.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I love that and I someone actually told me that as
well.
It's not about what you do,it's about how you do it, and
you don't need to be innovative,you just need to do it better.
You just didn't get it out thedoor.
Exactly, exactly.
Well, thanks, jim.
Thanks so much for yourinsights.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
What's the best way for?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
what's the best way for our listeners to reach out
to Jim Stern, if you've got anyoffers for them or if they're
looking to just follow you?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
LinkedIn is the best.
My email address is availableeverywhere on the internet.
My domain name is targetingcom.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Amazing Thanks.
So much, jim, thank you.
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