December 29, 2023 • 25 mins
Are you ready to ride the wave of blockchain and digital assets? In an extraordinary chat, our guest David Doss, a board member of ChainBIX and the founder of CKC Fund, takes us on a compelling journey into the cryptocurrency Web3 space. With an intriguing surfing analogy, David aptly describes the volatile nature of this market, emphasizing the need for preparedness and a strategic approach to thrive amidst the market's fluctuating cycles.
In the second half of our conversation, David generously imparts his investment wisdom, equating research and diversification to a buoyancy aid in the turbulent sea of digital assets. As he navigates through his investment strategies, he underscores the importance of understanding your risk profile, painting a clear picture of a rigorous approach needed for this frontier. Eager for more? Stay tuned as David cordially extends an invitation to connect with him via LinkedIn or email. This episode is packed with valuable insights, offering a glimpse into the future where blockchain and digital assets are steering the wheel of global innovation. So, don your wetsuit and get ready to ride this wave, armed with valuable insights and strategies!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to the growing Lean podcast, once again
by Lean Discovery Group.
This is your host, dylan Burke,also known as Teage.
I'm very happy to be here withDavid Doss, founder of the CKC
Fund and board of directors ofChainBLX.
Welcome, david.
Thank you for having me, dylanAmazing.
So to get us started, can yougive us a little bit about the
(00:25):
history and background ofyourself and how you ended up
where you are today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, sure.
So I've spent about the last 15years in marketing strategy and
operations, mainly fortechnology companies, and I've
spent about the last six yearsof that in the blockchain and
cryptocurrency Web3 space.
So I've worked on blockchaininitiatives with Citibank, with
(00:52):
Gemini, a variety of otherplayers in the space and, in
terms of what inspired me to getstarted doing what I'm doing
now, also have a very globalbackground, where I've lived in
various countries, traveled toseveral dozen different
countries at this point and Iwas really fascinated with the
(01:16):
ability for digital assets toact as a catalyst for innovation
globally.
So what I do now as the founderof CKC Fund is focus on helping
businesses and investment fundsto grow through blockchain and
(01:38):
digital assets.
So on the one side of whatwe're doing is we help to
operate investment fund vehiclesin the digital asset space and
with that, we help also tofacilitate liquidity for other
alternative investment fundsthat accept capital in the form
of cryptocurrencies so fundssuch as ESG funds or other
(02:05):
emerging tech funds that arereceiving investment capital in
the form of cryptocurrency andthen redeploying it into other
areas.
And then the other side of whatwe do is growth, consultancy
and development aroundblockchain and cryptocurrency
startups and digitaltransformation initiatives.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, amazing.
And when did you start thebusiness?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So we have been going .
It's I guess that's kind of alittle bit of a larger question
because it built.
It have been building it outslowly in the background, but
I'd say particularly since aboutearly 2022 is when we really
(02:54):
started focusing on buildingthis out.
But I think that speaks also toa larger challenge of kind of
naming when a business starts,because really this also this
started, for example, on thedigital asset investments side.
It started with building out apersonal investment portfolio
(03:17):
over six years ago.
So, and then from thoselearnings and from you know,
from a lot of thoserelationships in the blockchain
space, is where there's kind ofthis organic growth into doing
what I do now.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, amazing.
And what has been the biggestchallenge you've faced in
getting to your business whereit is today and how you solved
it, or how you solving it?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah.
So I would say, in emergingtechnologies in general, but in
particular in the blockchain anddigital assets space, there's a
very kind of boom and bustcycle that can happen here.
Where this is something that Ihave perspective on, having been
(04:04):
involved in this market forquite some time, is that you
have just these really majordrawdowns.
So, for context, you know, alltime high for Bitcoin was about
$80,000 and it's been hoveringin the kind of 25 to $30,000
range lately, but the thing isthat this is nothing super new
(04:27):
around the larger digital assetsspace.
That also the last all timehigh in 2017, 2018, bitcoin was
at about $20,000 and then itwent down to about $3,000.
So you have these just verysignificant fluctuations, but
upward trending.
(04:48):
So I think that the largerperspective is to kind of
prepare for the marathon ratherthan for the sprint and to
really kind of hope for the bestbut plan for the worst, and so
some ways that we've beenfocusing on doing that is really
(05:09):
tooling up and building outwhat we have to offer in the
midst of a bear market so thatwhen there is the next bull
market, we can be really 100%equipped to provide value and to
handle the demand that will bethere.
An analogy I like to use is youknow, if you're surfing, for
(05:32):
example, and they're kind of nowaves out there, yeah, you could
just stop and swim to shore,but then if you see this big
wave coming from shore, you haveto run into the water and then
start paddling over out to thewave, and by the time that you
see that wave you may havemissed it.
So if you're just constantlygoing back to shore and then
(05:54):
chasing that wave from the shore, then it becomes a challenge.
So they talk about that inother sports too.
You want to go not to where theball is, but to where the ball
will be.
So I think that's a challengein emerging technologies and
crypto in particular is to kindof prepare for where the ball
(06:14):
will be.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, 100% and I love that analogy because it
literally is a wave if you lookat the graph.
And you want to be at the bottomof it going up just so you're
ready for the pump.
I used to.
Well, I was dabbling.
I was really young in 2017 whenthat sort of emerged into the
mainstream and I dabbled with itand I turned like 500 rand into
(06:40):
30,000 rand, which was likecrazy at the time and I remember
telling my grandpa I was like,hey, this is what I've done with
500 rand.
And he was like take it out nowit's going to crash.
And I was like I know betterthan him, he's only been doing
this for 60 years with markets.
And two weeks later it crashedand I lost it and I pulled it
(07:01):
out and I just took the lossbecause it wasn't technically a
loss.
It was because it was only 500rand, which was broken.
Yeah, yeah.
And if I had hold that untiltoday it would be worth like 30x
what it was.
So that's what I'm saying youbetter to wait in the ocean.
(07:21):
I love that melody.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah, well so, and I mean the thing, though, is
that waiting is this issomething that I think is also
an important concept is thatwaiting is something that is Is
kind of a very active thing.
I remember there was this Ithink it was a Hamilton song,
the musical, but it was I'm notlying around, I'm lying in wait,
(07:46):
and so that that kind ofCrouching ready to, ready to
strike, sort of a waiting is, isreally the kind of thing that
we're talking about, not thislike kind of Waiting for the
whole thing to get better,without kind of taking agency of
it is, I think, another,another important learning of
you know there's there are waysto be productively waiting, and
(08:08):
so, to that point and to thatkind of you know Example that
you're talking about, you knowthere's there are opportunities.
You know, certainly would, it'syou know, better to better to
sell at the peak then Then tosell at the dip.
That's, you know, obviouslyalso easier said than done.
But then you know, beyond that,to your other point, it would
(08:31):
also maybe have been better toyou know, to either sell at the
the last peak or to wait it outuntil the next one, and
depending on your priorities,right, but there are also other
ways of actively waiting, suchas, you know, I think, some of
the really successful funds outthere they have.
They've seen that They've beenthinking about the short term
(08:53):
and about the long term.
So and then and that's a storythat you're providing you know,
I think that what a lot of fundsin the space would be looking
to do is Sell out of thosepositions, not to completely
cash out and and kind of closeup shop, but to sell out of
their positions and then getback in at, basically, at a
(09:13):
heavy discount Is another areawhere I think that there's a lot
of opportunity in a marketwhere there's volatility.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
And then could you walk usthrough your overall business
strategy and Kind of where yousee yourself heading in the next
couple years?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, for sure.
So In terms of our so we havetwo sides of what CKC does.
One side is CKC fund, and sowhat we've, what we've been
doing, is managing Investmentvehicles in the digital asset
space.
So we're a fund operator or afund advisor, and and in terms
(09:58):
of the model and what we'repreparing to do, we're thinking
about this in terms of, to yourpoint, of the medium to
long-term value in in thismarket where, for example,
analysts from city and from theWorld Economic Forum have talked
about the overall blockchainand tokenization markets being a
(10:20):
multi-trillion dollaropportunity, where Right now
it's I mean, the overallmarket's a little bit difficult
to estimate, but maybe in thelow trillions and they're
they're estimating basicallycloser to a 10 to 20 trillion
dollar opportunity by 2030.
(10:41):
So what we're looking to do isis really to help fuel that
overall, that overall trend, andProvide value in that.
In terms of the strategy aroundinvestment management, our
mindset is that there's there'sbeen a lot of kind of
risk-seeking behavior in thecrypto markets.
(11:02):
There's a lot of you know, kindof more, more gambling, and I
mean gambling is gambling iscool, you know you can, you can
win a lot, you can, but theproblem is you can also lose a
lot.
So you know it's it's fine tobe to be gambling if, if what
someone wants to do is gamble,but if it's, if it's a question
(11:22):
of investing, then there thereneeds to be more of a Kind of a
measured approach of researchingfundamental value.
You know, diversification, riskmanagement, looking at at price
correlations, trying to buildout an overall portfolio that
can Basically mitigate risk.
(11:44):
So what we look to do ismitigate risk across the larger
digital asset portfolios thatwe're building.
We also look to provide digitalassets as a way in turn, to
mitigate investor risk Acrosstheir, their larger, their
larger portfolio.
(12:05):
So we like to look at how canDigital assets like Bitcoin or
Ethereum, how can they be acounterbalance, given that they
show low to Low, to nocorrelation with other markets
like stocks, bonds, real estate?
How can, how can the Upwardtrending volatility of of
(12:28):
digital assets provide anasymmetric growth opportunity
for people's portfolios in a waythat also kind of balances out
the larger volatility acrossthat.
So that's one area or set ofareas.
Another point there around whatwe're looking to do is we're
looking to really bring more ofa rigor to the digital asset
(12:51):
space, where a lot of the kindof total wipeout scenarios that
have been happening have beenfrom being way, way over
leveraged on really, reallyrisky place, where some people
have become just unbelievablyrich overnight, but other people
have lost absolutely everythingor are actually in the red, and
so what we're looking to do isbe kind of the antidote to that,
(13:15):
towards a more risk mitigatedtype of approach.
On the studio and developmentside, what we look to do is help
to build out the largerecosystem of products and
services in the blockchain spacethat are going to help to fuel
(13:37):
the next bull market.
Essentially, 100%.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, I've got some friends who have kind of like,
pulled out most of theirinvestments and then they're
just riding whatever they'rewilling to lose.
But I've got this one friendwho he's like a super
intelligent guy and he's he putseverything into Bitcoin,
specifically diversified alittle bit, but he's backing
(14:02):
Bitcoin to the end and even whenit dips he's at it last.
He just keeps buying more andmore and more.
And he's explained it to me somany times and it does make
sense.
He's backing the technology andhe's backing that Bitcoin will
be the front runner at the endof it.
But, with that being said, havethere been any times in your
journey like where you've seen atank so hard and you like, oh
(14:26):
God, what am I doing?
Like I'm losing so much?
Has there ever been a timewhere you considered like
pulling it quits and findingsomething new?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You know, I think there's always that, there's
always that question around.
You know, anything in life thatgets that gets tough right.
But you know there have beentimes where it has been really,
really brutal.
So you know, for one thing, Ileft a very, very cushy job in
(14:58):
early 2018, early to mid 2018 towork in an early stage
blockchain and cryptocurrencystartup and, within two weeks of
quitting, bitcoin fell by 50%and alt points so you know a lot
of the other ones out therefell by up to 95 to 99 plus
(15:18):
percent in some cases, and sothe market was just totally,
totally decimated and I wasgetting paid in cryptocurrency.
So you know, it's there were.
There have been times whereit's been, you know, a really
quite a bit of a shock, to putit mildly.
(15:39):
But that kind of hardback to myearlier point I was making is
that realizing okay, these arethe patterns, how can we prepare
for this next time, be betterinformed, learn from the pain,
basically.
But yeah, I think that it comesdown to finding something that
you're really excited about,passionate about, that you think
(16:01):
has, has impact potential, andsomething that's that's worse,
worth the headache, worth thepain?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, 100%, and you obviously back the technology
all the way.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah.
So I will caveat that by sayingI have been consistently
involved with the technology andwith the assets all the way or
through that entire duration,and focus the mind, share of my
time and attention to it.
Personally, though, I've notchosen to kind of go all in on
(16:39):
kind of sell the house and buyBitcoin or sell the car and buy
Bitcoin.
There are folds for whom thatreally paid off.
There are others for whom itreally really really didn't.
There are horror stories ofpeople who took on a second
mortgage to buy crypto towardsthe peak and then tanks or stuff
(17:05):
like that.
So, with that in mind, what Ilook to do is to practice what I
preach, which is the benefitsof diversification, not just
diversification across differentcrypto assets, but also
diversification of havingtreating crypto like the
(17:28):
promising emerging asset class.
That it is where it reallydepends on a person's risk
profile.
For some younger folks, it couldmake sense to have 25 plus
percent of net worth in crypto.
For some, it could really notmake sense if they have kind of
a lower risk type of profile orset of priorities for, let's say
(17:52):
, broader.
More broadly speaking, a lot ofprivate-worth individuals,
family offices and such, as wellas modern portfolio theory
would have been saying insurveys or in analyses that it
can make sense to put, say,around four or five percent of
net worth into digital assetsbecause of the significant
(18:18):
upside, while also in a scenariowhere you're not looking to
invest any more than you're okaywith losing, it would still be
kind of a minimal damage toone's overall net worth.
So I think there are a lot ofthings to think through there of
what is the mindset, what isthe risk appetite, and then make
(18:42):
decisions accordingly.
Essentially, yeah 100%.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So I've got.
My one side of my family has areal estate development
background, which takes hugerisk, and then my other side, my
stepdad, is an accountant, sohe's very risk averse and both
of them tell me to stay awayfrom cryptocurrency.
So it's super interesting.
Even the risk takers and therisk mitigators.
(19:07):
They have a common agreement.
But now they're slowly startingto understand it more.
As the years have gone by, withmore case studies and education
, it's becoming more understoodby them, especially the older
generation.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I think it comes down to looking at crypto
as special, just like any otherasset class, so it has these
particulars about it, just likethe real estate market does, or
the fine art market or the stockmarket or what have you.
But realizing that you need tolook at the fundamentals, you
(19:43):
need to exercise good judgment.
I think that sometimes folks incrypto can talk about it as
this super, super special thingthat's unlike anything else, in
a way that can kind of make itit kind of smacks of some
exceptionalism, like the rulesof investing don't apply,
(20:04):
fundamental analysis doesn'tneed to apply, and that's, I
think that's a mistake.
So, to your point, educationreally important, and also just
realizing the overall value,potential and making informed
decisions all really important.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, amazing.
So we are running out of time abit, but I just wanted to,
before we go, if you could ratewhere you are in terms of your
level of satisfaction with yourbusiness on a scale of one to 10
today.
What?
Where would you rate that?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh boy.
So I would say, you know, Ithink this is around probably
where most people would say, butit's somewhere towards the
first, that kind of six, seven,eight out of 10 range, the
(21:02):
reason being, I think it's abalance of celebrating the wins
but also staying hungry andstaying humble for what's to
come.
There's a whole lot that I wantstill to accomplish, but I
think that there's been a lot ofgrowth as well 100%.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And if we were to meet again in three years' time
and ask you the same question,what would you want the answer
to be?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I would want the answer to be a lot higher, and I
think that that also speaks toyour point.
There was a saying by I can'tremember who was, but kind of a
fairly common saying thateveryone overestimates what they
can do in a year, but theyunderestimate what they can do
(21:48):
in 10 years.
And so looking through, youknow, to three years from now, I
think the sheer level ofpotential of what could have
been achieved is a lot moresignificant, you know, versus
the expectations that it wouldhave.
So I think it's good to bebuilding for that longer term
for sure 100%.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And do you sort of have an idea what it takes to
get to that point Like what'smissing.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's for this stage.
I think it comes down to betteroperations around sales and
business development, and thenalso increased focus on
optimizing the asset managementside of things.
(22:37):
So those are, I think, going tocontinue to be key areas.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Okay, amazing, I love that.
And before we go, what advicewould you give to other business
owners looking to succeed inyour industry?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
A couple of things.
One would be testing out whatit is exactly you want to be
accomplishing.
So you know, I think that therehave been a lot of folks that
will go oh, crypto, you knowthat's going to be easy.
But really finding what it isthat you really find interesting
(23:13):
about the blockchain and cryptosphere and kind of building out
knowledge and experience andkind of track record in that is,
I think, really important.
Relatedly also, just that Iwould say the other related side
to that is that there's just somany areas within blockchain
(23:34):
and crypto that are growingright now, ranging from, you
know, kind of more B2Binfrastructure to, you know,
blockchain related to music,streaming, events, and so
there's just a whole scope.
So kind of trying to find whatreally ticks with you know,
(23:56):
personality, skill set etc.
Would be another key area.
And then the last point wouldbe just bearing in mind those
cycles that you know.
I think a lot of people kind ofget onto that, watching a
crypto bandwagon when you knowwhen the price is ludicrously
high and then when things startto dip, they start to drop off a
(24:17):
bit.
So just bearing in mind thatyou know that'll probably
continue to, you know there willcontinue to be cycles is
another thing and prepareaccordingly 100%.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I appreciate that so much, and thanks for being on
the show, david.
It's been really interestingand I'd love learning more about
this.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
You're having me on don't.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
What would the best?
What would the best way forpeople to get in touch with
David Doss, if you have any, ifthey have any questions or if
you have any offers for them totake advantage of?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, would be great to to continue conversations.
Happy to help in what ways Ican.
My LinkedIn would be a good way.
I'm pretty active on LinkedInSearch for David Doss CKC fund.
You can also reach out to mevia email.
So that's David at CKCfun andyeah, those would be some of the
(25:10):
main ways.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Amazing.
Thanks so much, David.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I appreciate it.
Welcome back to the growing Lean podcast, once again
by Lean Discovery Group.
This is your host, dylan Burke,also known as Teage.
I'm very happy to be here withDavid Doss, founder of the CKC
Fund and board of directors ofChainBLX.
Welcome, david.
Thank you for having me, dylanAmazing.
So to get us started, can yougive us a little bit about the
(00:25):
history and background ofyourself and how you ended up
where you are today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, sure.
So I've spent about the last 15years in marketing strategy and
operations, mainly fortechnology companies, and I've
spent about the last six yearsof that in the blockchain and
cryptocurrency Web3 space.
So I've worked on blockchaininitiatives with Citibank, with
(00:52):
Gemini, a variety of otherplayers in the space and, in
terms of what inspired me to getstarted doing what I'm doing
now, also have a very globalbackground, where I've lived in
various countries, traveled toseveral dozen different
countries at this point and Iwas really fascinated with the
(01:16):
ability for digital assets toact as a catalyst for innovation
globally.
So what I do now as the founderof CKC Fund is focus on helping
businesses and investment fundsto grow through blockchain and
(01:38):
digital assets.
So on the one side of whatwe're doing is we help to
operate investment fund vehiclesin the digital asset space and
with that, we help also tofacilitate liquidity for other
alternative investment fundsthat accept capital in the form
of cryptocurrencies so fundssuch as ESG funds or other
(02:05):
emerging tech funds that arereceiving investment capital in
the form of cryptocurrency andthen redeploying it into other
areas.
And then the other side of whatwe do is growth, consultancy
and development aroundblockchain and cryptocurrency
startups and digitaltransformation initiatives.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, amazing.
And when did you start thebusiness?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So we have been going .
It's I guess that's kind of alittle bit of a larger question
because it built.
It have been building it outslowly in the background, but
I'd say particularly since aboutearly 2022 is when we really
(02:54):
started focusing on buildingthis out.
But I think that speaks also toa larger challenge of kind of
naming when a business starts,because really this also this
started, for example, on thedigital asset investments side.
It started with building out apersonal investment portfolio
(03:17):
over six years ago.
So, and then from thoselearnings and from you know,
from a lot of thoserelationships in the blockchain
space, is where there's kind ofthis organic growth into doing
what I do now.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, amazing.
And what has been the biggestchallenge you've faced in
getting to your business whereit is today and how you solved
it, or how you solving it?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah.
So I would say, in emergingtechnologies in general, but in
particular in the blockchain anddigital assets space, there's a
very kind of boom and bustcycle that can happen here.
Where this is something that Ihave perspective on, having been
(04:04):
involved in this market forquite some time, is that you
have just these really majordrawdowns.
So, for context, you know, alltime high for Bitcoin was about
$80,000 and it's been hoveringin the kind of 25 to $30,000
range lately, but the thing isthat this is nothing super new
(04:27):
around the larger digital assetsspace.
That also the last all timehigh in 2017, 2018, bitcoin was
at about $20,000 and then itwent down to about $3,000.
So you have these just verysignificant fluctuations, but
upward trending.
(04:48):
So I think that the largerperspective is to kind of
prepare for the marathon ratherthan for the sprint and to
really kind of hope for the bestbut plan for the worst, and so
some ways that we've beenfocusing on doing that is really
(05:09):
tooling up and building outwhat we have to offer in the
midst of a bear market so thatwhen there is the next bull
market, we can be really 100%equipped to provide value and to
handle the demand that will bethere.
An analogy I like to use is youknow, if you're surfing, for
(05:32):
example, and they're kind of nowaves out there, yeah, you could
just stop and swim to shore,but then if you see this big
wave coming from shore, you haveto run into the water and then
start paddling over out to thewave, and by the time that you
see that wave you may havemissed it.
So if you're just constantlygoing back to shore and then
(05:54):
chasing that wave from the shore, then it becomes a challenge.
So they talk about that inother sports too.
You want to go not to where theball is, but to where the ball
will be.
So I think that's a challengein emerging technologies and
crypto in particular is to kindof prepare for where the ball
(06:14):
will be.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, 100% and I love that analogy because it
literally is a wave if you lookat the graph.
And you want to be at the bottomof it going up just so you're
ready for the pump.
I used to.
Well, I was dabbling.
I was really young in 2017 whenthat sort of emerged into the
mainstream and I dabbled with itand I turned like 500 rand into
(06:40):
30,000 rand, which was likecrazy at the time and I remember
telling my grandpa I was like,hey, this is what I've done with
500 rand.
And he was like take it out nowit's going to crash.
And I was like I know betterthan him, he's only been doing
this for 60 years with markets.
And two weeks later it crashedand I lost it and I pulled it
(07:01):
out and I just took the lossbecause it wasn't technically a
loss.
It was because it was only 500rand, which was broken.
Yeah, yeah.
And if I had hold that untiltoday it would be worth like 30x
what it was.
So that's what I'm saying youbetter to wait in the ocean.
(07:21):
I love that melody.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah, well so, and I mean the thing, though, is
that waiting is this issomething that I think is also
an important concept is thatwaiting is something that is Is
kind of a very active thing.
I remember there was this Ithink it was a Hamilton song,
the musical, but it was I'm notlying around, I'm lying in wait,
(07:46):
and so that that kind ofCrouching ready to, ready to
strike, sort of a waiting is, isreally the kind of thing that
we're talking about, not thislike kind of Waiting for the
whole thing to get better,without kind of taking agency of
it is, I think, another,another important learning of
you know there's there are waysto be productively waiting, and
(08:08):
so, to that point and to thatkind of you know Example that
you're talking about, you knowthere's there are opportunities.
You know, certainly would, it'syou know, better to better to
sell at the peak then Then tosell at the dip.
That's, you know, obviouslyalso easier said than done.
But then you know, beyond that,to your other point, it would
(08:31):
also maybe have been better toyou know, to either sell at the
the last peak or to wait it outuntil the next one, and
depending on your priorities,right, but there are also other
ways of actively waiting, suchas, you know, I think, some of
the really successful funds outthere they have.
They've seen that They've beenthinking about the short term
(08:53):
and about the long term.
So and then and that's a storythat you're providing you know,
I think that what a lot of fundsin the space would be looking
to do is Sell out of thosepositions, not to completely
cash out and and kind of closeup shop, but to sell out of
their positions and then getback in at, basically, at a
(09:13):
heavy discount Is another areawhere I think that there's a lot
of opportunity in a marketwhere there's volatility.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
And then could you walk usthrough your overall business
strategy and Kind of where yousee yourself heading in the next
couple years?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, for sure.
So In terms of our so we havetwo sides of what CKC does.
One side is CKC fund, and sowhat we've, what we've been
doing, is managing Investmentvehicles in the digital asset
space.
So we're a fund operator or afund advisor, and and in terms
(09:58):
of the model and what we'repreparing to do, we're thinking
about this in terms of, to yourpoint, of the medium to
long-term value in in thismarket where, for example,
analysts from city and from theWorld Economic Forum have talked
about the overall blockchainand tokenization markets being a
(10:20):
multi-trillion dollaropportunity, where Right now
it's I mean, the overallmarket's a little bit difficult
to estimate, but maybe in thelow trillions and they're
they're estimating basicallycloser to a 10 to 20 trillion
dollar opportunity by 2030.
(10:41):
So what we're looking to do isis really to help fuel that
overall, that overall trend, andProvide value in that.
In terms of the strategy aroundinvestment management, our
mindset is that there's there'sbeen a lot of kind of
risk-seeking behavior in thecrypto markets.
(11:02):
There's a lot of you know, kindof more, more gambling, and I
mean gambling is gambling iscool, you know you can, you can
win a lot, you can, but theproblem is you can also lose a
lot.
So you know it's it's fine tobe to be gambling if, if what
someone wants to do is gamble,but if it's, if it's a question
(11:22):
of investing, then there thereneeds to be more of a Kind of a
measured approach of researchingfundamental value.
You know, diversification, riskmanagement, looking at at price
correlations, trying to buildout an overall portfolio that
can Basically mitigate risk.
(11:44):
So what we look to do ismitigate risk across the larger
digital asset portfolios thatwe're building.
We also look to provide digitalassets as a way in turn, to
mitigate investor risk Acrosstheir, their larger, their
larger portfolio.
(12:05):
So we like to look at how canDigital assets like Bitcoin or
Ethereum, how can they be acounterbalance, given that they
show low to Low, to nocorrelation with other markets
like stocks, bonds, real estate?
How can, how can the Upwardtrending volatility of of
(12:28):
digital assets provide anasymmetric growth opportunity
for people's portfolios in a waythat also kind of balances out
the larger volatility acrossthat.
So that's one area or set ofareas.
Another point there around whatwe're looking to do is we're
looking to really bring more ofa rigor to the digital asset
(12:51):
space, where a lot of the kindof total wipeout scenarios that
have been happening have beenfrom being way, way over
leveraged on really, reallyrisky place, where some people
have become just unbelievablyrich overnight, but other people
have lost absolutely everythingor are actually in the red, and
so what we're looking to do isbe kind of the antidote to that,
(13:15):
towards a more risk mitigatedtype of approach.
On the studio and developmentside, what we look to do is help
to build out the largerecosystem of products and
services in the blockchain spacethat are going to help to fuel
(13:37):
the next bull market.
Essentially, 100%.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, I've got some friends who have kind of like,
pulled out most of theirinvestments and then they're
just riding whatever they'rewilling to lose.
But I've got this one friendwho he's like a super
intelligent guy and he's he putseverything into Bitcoin,
specifically diversified alittle bit, but he's backing
(14:02):
Bitcoin to the end and even whenit dips he's at it last.
He just keeps buying more andmore and more.
And he's explained it to me somany times and it does make
sense.
He's backing the technology andhe's backing that Bitcoin will
be the front runner at the endof it.
But, with that being said, havethere been any times in your
journey like where you've seen atank so hard and you like, oh
(14:26):
God, what am I doing?
Like I'm losing so much?
Has there ever been a timewhere you considered like
pulling it quits and findingsomething new?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You know, I think there's always that, there's
always that question around.
You know, anything in life thatgets that gets tough right.
But you know there have beentimes where it has been really,
really brutal.
So you know, for one thing, Ileft a very, very cushy job in
(14:58):
early 2018, early to mid 2018 towork in an early stage
blockchain and cryptocurrencystartup and, within two weeks of
quitting, bitcoin fell by 50%and alt points so you know a lot
of the other ones out therefell by up to 95 to 99 plus
(15:18):
percent in some cases, and sothe market was just totally,
totally decimated and I wasgetting paid in cryptocurrency.
So you know, it's there were.
There have been times whereit's been, you know, a really
quite a bit of a shock, to putit mildly.
(15:39):
But that kind of hardback to myearlier point I was making is
that realizing okay, these arethe patterns, how can we prepare
for this next time, be betterinformed, learn from the pain,
basically.
But yeah, I think that it comesdown to finding something that
you're really excited about,passionate about, that you think
(16:01):
has, has impact potential, andsomething that's that's worse,
worth the headache, worth thepain?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, 100%, and you obviously back the technology
all the way.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah.
So I will caveat that by sayingI have been consistently
involved with the technology andwith the assets all the way or
through that entire duration,and focus the mind, share of my
time and attention to it.
Personally, though, I've notchosen to kind of go all in on
(16:39):
kind of sell the house and buyBitcoin or sell the car and buy
Bitcoin.
There are folds for whom thatreally paid off.
There are others for whom itreally really really didn't.
There are horror stories ofpeople who took on a second
mortgage to buy crypto towardsthe peak and then tanks or stuff
(17:05):
like that.
So, with that in mind, what Ilook to do is to practice what I
preach, which is the benefitsof diversification, not just
diversification across differentcrypto assets, but also
diversification of havingtreating crypto like the
(17:28):
promising emerging asset class.
That it is where it reallydepends on a person's risk
profile.
For some younger folks, it couldmake sense to have 25 plus
percent of net worth in crypto.
For some, it could really notmake sense if they have kind of
a lower risk type of profile orset of priorities for, let's say
(17:52):
, broader.
More broadly speaking, a lot ofprivate-worth individuals,
family offices and such, as wellas modern portfolio theory
would have been saying insurveys or in analyses that it
can make sense to put, say,around four or five percent of
net worth into digital assetsbecause of the significant
(18:18):
upside, while also in a scenariowhere you're not looking to
invest any more than you're okaywith losing, it would still be
kind of a minimal damage toone's overall net worth.
So I think there are a lot ofthings to think through there of
what is the mindset, what isthe risk appetite, and then make
(18:42):
decisions accordingly.
Essentially, yeah 100%.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So I've got.
My one side of my family has areal estate development
background, which takes hugerisk, and then my other side, my
stepdad, is an accountant, sohe's very risk averse and both
of them tell me to stay awayfrom cryptocurrency.
So it's super interesting.
Even the risk takers and therisk mitigators.
(19:07):
They have a common agreement.
But now they're slowly startingto understand it more.
As the years have gone by, withmore case studies and education
, it's becoming more understoodby them, especially the older
generation.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I think it comes down to looking at crypto
as special, just like any otherasset class, so it has these
particulars about it, just likethe real estate market does, or
the fine art market or the stockmarket or what have you.
But realizing that you need tolook at the fundamentals, you
(19:43):
need to exercise good judgment.
I think that sometimes folks incrypto can talk about it as
this super, super special thingthat's unlike anything else, in
a way that can kind of make itit kind of smacks of some
exceptionalism, like the rulesof investing don't apply,
(20:04):
fundamental analysis doesn'tneed to apply, and that's, I
think that's a mistake.
So, to your point, educationreally important, and also just
realizing the overall value,potential and making informed
decisions all really important.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, amazing.
So we are running out of time abit, but I just wanted to,
before we go, if you could ratewhere you are in terms of your
level of satisfaction with yourbusiness on a scale of one to 10
today.
What?
Where would you rate that?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh boy.
So I would say, you know, Ithink this is around probably
where most people would say, butit's somewhere towards the
first, that kind of six, seven,eight out of 10 range, the
(21:02):
reason being, I think it's abalance of celebrating the wins
but also staying hungry andstaying humble for what's to
come.
There's a whole lot that I wantstill to accomplish, but I
think that there's been a lot ofgrowth as well 100%.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And if we were to meet again in three years' time
and ask you the same question,what would you want the answer
to be?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I would want the answer to be a lot higher, and I
think that that also speaks toyour point.
There was a saying by I can'tremember who was, but kind of a
fairly common saying thateveryone overestimates what they
can do in a year, but theyunderestimate what they can do
(21:48):
in 10 years.
And so looking through, youknow, to three years from now, I
think the sheer level ofpotential of what could have
been achieved is a lot moresignificant, you know, versus
the expectations that it wouldhave.
So I think it's good to bebuilding for that longer term
for sure 100%.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And do you sort of have an idea what it takes to
get to that point Like what'smissing.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's for this stage.
I think it comes down to betteroperations around sales and
business development, and thenalso increased focus on
optimizing the asset managementside of things.
(22:37):
So those are, I think, going tocontinue to be key areas.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Okay, amazing, I love that.
And before we go, what advicewould you give to other business
owners looking to succeed inyour industry?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
A couple of things.
One would be testing out whatit is exactly you want to be
accomplishing.
So you know, I think that therehave been a lot of folks that
will go oh, crypto, you knowthat's going to be easy.
But really finding what it isthat you really find interesting
(23:13):
about the blockchain and cryptosphere and kind of building out
knowledge and experience andkind of track record in that is,
I think, really important.
Relatedly also, just that Iwould say the other related side
to that is that there's just somany areas within blockchain
(23:34):
and crypto that are growingright now, ranging from, you
know, kind of more B2Binfrastructure to, you know,
blockchain related to music,streaming, events, and so
there's just a whole scope.
So kind of trying to find whatreally ticks with you know,
(23:56):
personality, skill set etc.
Would be another key area.
And then the last point wouldbe just bearing in mind those
cycles that you know.
I think a lot of people kind ofget onto that, watching a
crypto bandwagon when you knowwhen the price is ludicrously
high and then when things startto dip, they start to drop off a
(24:17):
bit.
So just bearing in mind thatyou know that'll probably
continue to, you know there willcontinue to be cycles is
another thing and prepareaccordingly 100%.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I appreciate that so much, and thanks for being on
the show, david.
It's been really interestingand I'd love learning more about
this.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
You're having me on don't.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
What would the best?
What would the best way forpeople to get in touch with
David Doss, if you have any, ifthey have any questions or if
you have any offers for them totake advantage of?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, would be great to to continue conversations.
Happy to help in what ways Ican.
My LinkedIn would be a good way.
I'm pretty active on LinkedInSearch for David Doss CKC fund.
You can also reach out to mevia email.
So that's David at CKCfun andyeah, those would be some of the
(25:10):
main ways.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Amazing.
Thanks so much, David.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I appreciate it.
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