256 - Last ep before baby! What pregnancy has been like… - Growing Steady | Intentional Creative Business Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Caroline (00:06):
Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help
online creators like you build acalm business. One that's
predictable, profitable, andpeaceful. We're your hosts,
Jason and Caroline Zook, and werun Wandering Aimfully, an
unboring business coachingprogram, and Teachery , an
online course platform fordesigners. Join us each week as
we help you reach your businessgoals without sacrificing your
well-being in the process. Slowand steady is the way we do

(00:28):
things around here, baby.

Jason (00:29):
Alright, cinnamon rollers. That's you. Let's get
into the show. Hello, andwelcome to our podcast.

Caroline (00:39):
Gosh. We do we remember how to

Jason (00:42):
This is our podcast. When do you think the last time a
podcast episode went up?

Caroline (00:47):
I just looked at it. It was, like, five weeks ago. It
was, like, I think it was thelaunch recap, if I'm not
mistaken.

Jason (00:52):
It was the launch recap for sure. It was July 10. As of
recording this, it's August 12.

Caroline (00:58):
Yikes.

Jason (00:59):
So, you know, it's not too bad. I mean, we've gone on
longer stretches of notpodcasting.

Caroline (01:02):
But we didn't we didn't really say that we were
Yeah.

Jason (01:05):
It was a little bit of like a a standard Internet
entrepreneur does a launch andthen just disappears. But like

Caroline (01:11):
Which we hate doing. Like, we never wanna do that. I
will say to just pramble alittle bit and catch everybody
up on, like Sure. Life Let's hashappened. If I recall correctly,
a big part of us taking a breakwas also this was aligning with
the serve the celebration oflife service for my dad

Jason (01:28):
Yes.

Caroline (01:28):
Who passed away, in case you're just joining us. And
so we were like, this is not themost important thing right now.
It was stressful. We wereplanning. It was obviously, you
know, I was in the middle ofgrief and hard.
I I feel like I didn't know thisbecause, I mean, I've of course
had people close to me pass awaybefore, but no one as close as

(01:49):
like a parent. Yeah. But Ididn't really know before how I
felt about like funerals or likeservices or stuff like that. I
will say my experience has beenthat, though it was stressful to
plan because the kids were theones planning it, it was a very
beautiful, like

Jason (02:07):
Way to celebrate someone.

Caroline (02:08):
Way to celebrate a person, and it did create, like,
a container for, like, all thisgrief that I just was in the
middle of processing. And it wasso lovely to see how many of
his, like, friends and peoplefrom his life showed up and,
like, said kind things to mysiblings and I.

Jason (02:27):
You watched it from afar. So we watched the couch on a
YouTube stream.

Caroline (02:30):
We watched on a livestream and just sobbed, like
Yeah. As expected. But I it wasit was really beautiful, I would
say.

Jason (02:39):
I think so too. Does it change any of your thoughts or
feelings about my request of mycelebration of life service that
I have always told you about?

Caroline (02:47):
Yes. I've told you. Jason has a very particular
request about his service thatincludes some sort of Viking bow
and arrow Uh-huh. Animal pirate.

Jason (02:59):
You know that it's just due.

Caroline (03:00):
You you want

Jason (03:01):
something If we're around a lake or a body of water of any
kind, could be the ocean. Yeah.I want I want my body to be in,
like, a wooden boat. Yep. I wantthat wooden boat to head out to
sea.
Yep. And I want an archer with alit flame to be you to hit the
boat, light it on fire, and weall celebrate me. And if there's
like rice lanterns that eruptas, you know, I'm a a flame and
I'm going Okay.

Caroline (03:21):
To for everyone listening, the rice lanterns are
new.

Jason (03:23):
Yeah. Just I thought right

Caroline (03:24):
now. For people Also rice paper lanterns is

Jason (03:26):
that. Yes, course.

Caroline (03:27):
Not rice lanterns. Of course. Yeah. Has it changed my
view of that? Yeah.
Absolutely not.

Jason (03:32):
You're going absolutely not.

Caroline (03:33):
I'm going you're not you can't have that. Wow. This
is news to me. I should ask you,has it changed your thought on
that at all?

Jason (03:43):
Because I want it even more.

Caroline (03:45):
No, Jason. You've seen how hire stressful it

Jason (03:47):
a party planner to help.

Caroline (03:49):
You can hire a party planner

Jason (03:50):
I'm dead.

Caroline (03:50):
Pay for them. You need to do some I'm dead in this You

Jason (03:54):
need to

Caroline (03:54):
some planning.

Jason (03:55):
You just I think the difference is here is obviously,
like, the family took care ofyour dad's celebration of life.
So it was like a bunch ofstressful things. All you need
to do is just tell a person mywishes, you know? And then we're
good to go.

Caroline (04:07):
Whatever you prepare ahead of time for me

Jason (04:10):
is what you

Caroline (04:10):
get.

Jason (04:10):
Listen, I'll put a Canva presentation together. You can
pass that along to an expert.

Caroline (04:14):
Great. Perfect.

Jason (04:14):
And they'll do it. Again, though, you have an important
part of this, and that is?

Caroline (04:18):
The archery.

Jason (04:19):
You have to shoot the arrows.

Caroline (04:20):
Yeah. That's so mean that you, from the grave, just
wanna watch me fail with, like,a fire. You know how much I'm
scared of fire.

Jason (04:27):
A little bit of practice goes a long way. I think it's
gonna be so cool when you hit itfirst shot, and everyone's gonna
celebrate it.

Caroline (04:32):
I'm at the archery range. People are like, hey. So
are you just, like, just gettinginto archery? No, I need to
practice for my husband'sseason. Oh, he

Jason (04:40):
passed away? No, no,

Caroline (04:41):
no, no, No,

Jason (04:42):
no, no.

Caroline (04:43):
We're hoping he lives a long life, but

Jason (04:45):
I just gotta get

Caroline (04:45):
I'm good at really bad at archery, so we need to start
early. Yeah. Okay, if you can'ttell, the way that we have
processed the past month is justthrough a little

Jason (04:53):
bit Love it, love it. Of

Caroline (04:54):
A lot of laughs. It has helped us to just, like, you
know, laugh our way through thepain. A very,

Jason (05:02):
yeah, very difficult.

Caroline (05:03):
And a very difficult time. And if you knew my dad, he
would love this conversation. Hebe

Jason (05:08):
so happy. He he would be so mad if we were just, like,
saying, like, kind things andjust being boring. Like, it's
not at all

Caroline (05:15):
his fault. Was he was a super funny, super irreverent
dude. Yeah. And I miss him aton.

Jason (05:24):
Your dad was a dude. There's not a lot of, like,
dads. You could be like, oh,that's a dude.

Caroline (05:27):
He was a dude.

Jason (05:28):
Your dad

Caroline (05:28):
was a dude. For sure.

Jason (05:30):
Not to move on, that's some bad stuff. I was

Caroline (05:33):
gonna Segue.

Jason (05:34):
Let let everybody know, Caroline, as of recording this,
is thirty six weeks and two dayspregnant.

Caroline (05:39):
Yeah. And I just want just a couple quick words about
the third trimester.

Jason (05:43):
If if anybody listened to our second trimester episodes
where it comes

Caroline (05:47):
like My god. This? Second trimester. What's up? I
was like, what?
Like, it's hard. No. I'm justkidding. It was not easy. But
second trimester, as as manypeople note, I know this is not
true for everyone.

Jason (05:58):
Yeah.

Caroline (05:59):
But, yeah, we were just like firing on all
cylinders, feeling great. Theenergy was back. All think good.
Turned a corner into the thirdtrimester, and boy, did it
escalate.

Jason (06:10):
Really changes.

Caroline (06:10):
Yeah. I will say it's it's gotten a lot harder just to
exist in my body, I will say.And that's even like I'm like
super lucky. Like, many thirdtrimester symptoms I do not
have. I keep finding new onesthat people are like, Oh, you
know, like, when your like,hands and feet swell up, and I'm
like but, like, that soundsterrible.

Jason (06:30):
Yeah.

Caroline (06:31):
Like, hey, when you get varicose veins. And I'm
like, what's happening there?Yeah. I You do feel very lucky,
but I

Jason (06:38):
have entered the third trimester Tartaruga stage.

Caroline (06:41):
We are in the Tartaruga stage. Tartaruga means
turtle in

Jason (06:45):
Portuguese.

Caroline (06:46):
Portuguese. And, yeah, the the whole, like, you can't
bend at the waist at all. Yeah.Like, second trimester is
getting harder. Third trimesteris like, no, no, no.
You can't you actually can't useyour ab muscles. And, like,
every like, just flipping overside to side is difficult. And I
just, like I have to apologizeto pregnant women everywhere
because, like, I just didn'tknow. And I'm sure every person

(07:07):
says that when they go throughit. But, like, I just didn't
know.
I was like, hey, hey, you'rebeing a little dramatic. Like,
just flip over. It's like, no.

Jason (07:14):
You can't?

Caroline (07:14):
Your body doesn't work You the same can't. It's very
weird having an alien insideyour body because now she's big
enough to where it's like, it'snot like a cute little flutter
kick anymore. It's like full onelbow Karate. Karate.

Jason (07:27):
Yeah.

Caroline (07:27):
And but but I will say, like, the flip side of
that, which is very fun, is itdefinitely makes it more real
and, like, easier to connect toher and, like, who she is
because I'm like, oh, you're bigenough now that I can, like,
picture where your body partsare, you know?

Jason (07:43):
I can feel them on

Caroline (07:44):
my I can feel them, like, on my parts of my body.
Yeah. Before, it was just kindalike, oh, yeah, like, there's
some there's a baby inside me.Now, I'm like, oh, I can, like,
talk to you and say hi to youbecause, like, you are, you wake
up in the morning and you'refully you have a full body.

Jason (07:58):
Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline (07:59):
So that part's kinda cool. And, like, they go from,
like, whatever, like, two poundsto, like, she's, like, six
pounds right now.

Jason (08:05):
Mhmm.

Caroline (08:05):
And I'm, oh, six pounds? You're, like, a baby.

Jason (08:07):
Yeah. It's full baby. The second It's a little baby, but
it's a full baby.

Caroline (08:10):
I'm like, how are you inside my body? I don't
understand.

Jason (08:13):
And then she has to get out, just FYI. Speaking of
getting out, as of this lastweek, our last appointment with
our doctor, we have an inductiondate. So we because of your two
blood disorders, we essentiallyhave to have a planned induction
date. A

Caroline (08:31):
a medically necessary induction. So not just an
elective induction, but ifthat's your thing, then that's
thing.

Jason (08:36):
I know. We really wanted to have the, like, we're in the
grocery store and your waterbreaks and we get to, like, you
know, rush

Caroline (08:40):
She really wanted the drama.

Jason (08:41):
Yeah. And then, like, I'm vlogging the whole thing, and
it's like, guys, what's up?Like, you knew it was gonna
happen. Yeah. We're we're notwe're not gonna have that
situation.

Caroline (08:49):
Which I think Unless she unless she comes early.
Unless This

Jason (08:51):
is true.

Caroline (08:51):
Unless she shows up early Yes. Which is not off the
table.

Jason (08:54):
Right. But but, yeah. We I mean, for two people who love
planning, there could not bereally a better situation where
it's like, this is the date. So,like, everything ready by then.

Caroline (09:05):
But I'm a little bit like, induction is not like, I
know a lot of people prefer toto go, like, the spontaneous
route because

Jason (09:13):
What if I can

Caroline (09:13):
stop the store? Your body's ready. Like your cervix
is ready. You are do you know,the baby has released hormones
that say like, I'm ready to goout, which is crazy, by the way.

Jason (09:25):
Yeah. Very.

Caroline (09:25):
Like, my lungs are developed, like, see you. Yeah.
Which makes a lot of sense tome. However and like, in doc
with induction, you do have,like, bigger chance of, like,
interventions and stuff likethat. However, I will say the
flip side of that is from thebeginning, I knew my doctor
literally from, like, a six weekour six week appointment was
like, just so you know, forthese conditions, like, we

(09:47):
almost always recommend amedically necessary induction.
Here are the reasons for that.And so I had already, like,
mentally prepared. There was no,like, disappointment on that. So
then I just started focusing onall the positives, and I was you
get to not be, like, crazystressed going into the
hospital. You get to plan aroundthe date.
Like, so I'm trying to look atall the positives and not like

(10:08):
Yeah. Oh, boy. Like, probablygonna have to have Pitocin, and
that's

Jason (10:12):
Yeah. I mean, it just this is kind of how we go
through life, though, especiallyme. It's like but you can't
change it. Like, you can't justdecide to be like, well, screw
my blood conditions. I'm justgonna do it my way.
It's like, no, you're not. I'mI'm not saying that to you. I'm
just I'm just saying in general,like, that's risky. That's,
like, putting you and the babyat risk. And so it's like, no.
Like, this is just the realityof what our journey looks like.
And so Yeah. We just have tocelebrate that as best we can.

Caroline (10:35):
It's just been our mantra through this whole thing
is, like, roll the punches.Yeah.

Jason (10:38):
It's kinda like our travel year. Just It

Caroline (10:40):
is very much like our travel year.

Jason (10:41):
You know? Like, you just you never know what you're gonna
get at an airport in Croatia,you know? And it's just like,
you show up and be like,whatever happens happens. If I
need to go in the back and I'mgetting strip searched, that's
just what I had to do today, youknow? But I I wanted to see
Split, so, like, here I am.

Caroline (10:53):
Weird way that was, like, good preparation in

Jason (10:58):
The traveling year? Yeah. Oh, 100%. Because I think

Caroline (11:00):
Dodging uncertainty at every corner.

Jason (11:02):
Absolutely. And I I just I think, you know, it it does
not compare in the physicalnature of pregnancy at all, and
especially the person who's notdealing with any of the physical
symptoms. I'm not trying to sayI relate to that. But I'm saying
that, oh, here's a newcurveball. Here's a new
curveball.
Like, it's just all these

Caroline (11:16):
things. Helps mentally a lot. Yeah. For me personally,
like and I think we'll talkabout this with some of the
questions that we got, but thethe anxiety, like, I really
thought that pregnancy was goingto cause me a lot more anxiety.
It was one my biggest fearsabout it.
And I think that because Ideveloped so many more tools to
deal with uncertainty duringthat travel year, I've had,

(11:37):
like, virtually no anxiety,which is kind of insane.

Jason (11:40):
Fantastic.

Caroline (11:40):
So Let's get into some questions. Let's get into some
questions that get kind ofcatches you up to speed on where
we are. And the nursery is done.We have basically all the baby
things.

Jason (11:50):
I think maybe what I'll try to remind you to do after we
finish recording this is to postthe nursery photos on our
wanderingeavely.com/now page.

Caroline (11:58):
Okay.

Jason (11:58):
So because that's like a good page because it's not like
we have like a there's not likea post on Instagram. So if you
wanna see what the baby nurserylooks like, you can go to
wanderinginfoil.com/now.

Caroline (12:07):
Well, I have to take good pictures in

Jason (12:09):
my mouth. You that have the you took. They were great.

Caroline (12:11):
Okay. Well, how about this? After the we record, will
you help me move the hospitalbag stuff into here? And then I
can, like, make the bed and makeit cute?

Jason (12:19):
Maybe. We'll see. But you have the two photos which are
good enough. And we're in awe're in a period of good enough
right now because you're thirtysix weeks pregnant.

Caroline (12:25):
Anyway, the nursery is done.

Jason (12:26):
The nursery is done.

Caroline (12:27):
Very cute. We both love it so much.

Jason (12:29):
Yeah.

Caroline (12:29):
And the only thing we have left to do that is, like,
very necessary is install thecar seat. And the reason we
haven't installed the car seat

Jason (12:37):
We still don't have a car.

Caroline (12:38):
Is because we don't have a car. We have a loaner car
because, in case you missed it,the week my dad passed away, our
Tesla decided to die. Thebattery died. Yeah. And so that
was rude Yeah.
And stressful. And thankfully,we did get a loaner. We have a
model

Jason (12:54):
X.

Caroline (12:54):
X. We hate it. It's terrible. It's so dumb.

Jason (12:57):
It's also super great to have a very nice rental car.
Yes. But boy, living inPortugal, it is not a car that I
would want to own. It's too big.It's too cumbersome.

Caroline (13:06):
Too futuristic.

Jason (13:07):
Like, the the doors that go up and, like, it's so cool in
theory, but, like, inpracticality, it is the worst.
And also, you just look like a dbag everywhere you're, like,
opening up these doors that goup. I'm like, no. Thank you. I
just, like, this

Caroline (13:19):
is We're in our subtle era,

Jason (13:20):
and this

Caroline (13:21):
that doesn't really is not conducive to that. But yes,
as you said, we are verygrateful that they did get us a
loaner and so we've had it for amonth and a half now. Yeah. And
so who doesn't want the addeduncertainty of like, can't drive
your own car to the hospital andhome from the hospital with your
new brand new newborn baby.Yeah.
He doesn't want that.

Jason (13:40):
Yeah.

Caroline (13:40):
So we've holding off installing the car seat, but I
told Jason, think this weekendis the weekend that we need to
just install the car seat on theloaner.

Jason (13:47):
Just in case.

Caroline (13:47):
Just in case.

Jason (13:48):
Our car is supposed to be fixed by Friday, but they've
been saying that for, like, thepast month, and we've our car's
been there for two months now,so we'll see how it goes.
Alright. Let's get into thesequestions. So you posted on the
old Instagram, and you got abunch of questions, which is
great.

Caroline (14:00):
Yeah. I feel like I've done no I did that on my, like,
personal Instagram because it'sthe most people, and I was like,
I've done no updates Yeah. On mypersonal Instagram or, like, my
art Instagram of this pregnancy.People are like, woah. This
really escalated.

Jason (14:13):
Alright.

Caroline (14:13):
So But, we yeah, let's go through them.

Jason (14:15):
Yeah. We have about, I don't know, 12 questions or so.
Let's not take too long becausealso your energy. You are
working out today. Correct?
I am working out. At thirty sixweeks, still working out. We
gotta conserve Working some

Caroline (14:26):
out. Wanna say in quotes is Yeah. You're still
yeah. Get in there.

Jason (14:29):
Going to the gym and moving things around. Alright.
So first question here. Yourfavorite This

Caroline (14:34):
is a classic. Someone was just like, what have been
your favorite and least favoriteparts of pregnancy? So I will
say my I mean, it's very easy tostart with the least favorite. I
again, I have had a very luckypregnancy. I thought I was
prepared for the absolute worstbecause I had seen and heard all
of the experiences all over themap.
And for anyone out there who'scurrently pregnant had a really

(14:55):
hard pregnancy, I just want youto know that my heart absolutely
goes out to you. And I'll neverknow how difficult that was
because I feel like I came outon the, like, lucky side of a
lot of these things. But still,my least favorite part was
definitely like the nausea, likeweeks five to ten, which wasn't
even that bad, but just the thegeneral nausea all and the

(15:18):
exhaustion of that. It was justlike a deep in your bones kind
of exhaustion. Really haven'tliked that.
I thought sleeping on my sideswould be a lot harder of a
thing. I kinda got used to thatpretty quickly. But I would say
this third trimester, sleeping,like, is just not comfortable.
There's there's no way to, like,get comfortable.

Jason (15:39):
And then whenever you do, you end up getting a karate
kick.

Caroline (15:42):
Yeah. Exactly. Like last night, I was trying to fall
asleep, and she had, like,violent hiccups. And I was like,
girl, we gotta we gotta justcalm this down.

Jason (15:51):
Yeah.

Caroline (15:51):
So, think, yeah, I think my least favorite part, I
will say, has just been, like,the limitations of my body.
Mhmm. Like, you know, not beingable to just, like, shoot up the
stairs to grab something fromthe

Jason (16:06):
second shoot up the stairs.

Caroline (16:07):
No. I can't You just end up out of breath. Yeah. And
I'll pass out. Like, shooting upthe stairs to, like, grab
something or just getting up offthe couch very easily.
It's just doing the dishes hasbecome hard. Like, all of those,
like, the mobility, the lack ofmobility for some reason has,
like, really impacted me, and Ididn't think that would. And
then my favorite parts ofpregnancy are just like I mean,

(16:32):
I feel like I'm very pregnancyneutral. Yeah. Like, favorite
obviously, favorite parts arelike thinking of her and just
knowing that she's in there andlike thinking about how excited
I am to meet her.
And just in a weird way, kind oflike, my favorite part of
pregnancy has been surprisingmyself with, like, how I've
handled it. Yeah. It's likefeeling like, I feel more

(16:55):
confident in myself in a weirdway, which I know is not
everyone's experience.

Jason (16:58):
Of course.

Caroline (16:59):
But because I was expecting the worst and it
kinda, like, came out a littlebit better than I thought, it
boosted my confidence in a way.Because I was just like, oh, and
and all the changes in my bodyhave happened so gradually.

Jason (17:12):
Which is why I think nature had to take this long.
You know?

Caroline (17:15):
So what about you? What have been like I don't know
if it's very hard for you to sayyour favorite or least favorite.

Jason (17:20):
I mean, yeah, from the partner's perspective, I think
it's you have the cakewalk ofthe thing, obviously. It's
always hard to see you in painor in discomfort. Like, that's
the hardest That's thing forhard for you.

Caroline (17:30):
That's always hard for you.

Jason (17:31):
Anytime I hear you like, from the side of couch, I'm
like, you okay? Like, I get likeI'm like, you know, a cat on a
ledge. Like, what's going on?And so that that's always, you
know, not fun. But, yeah, Ithink, you know, watching you be
able to, like, handle it and,like, still going to the gym.
Like, I'm so impressed that atthirty six weeks, you're still
going to the gym even if it'sonce or twice a week. Not
because I think you should, butbecause I'm just like, I just

Caroline (17:53):
I And keep giving myself permission to stop, but
I'm like, it makes me feelbetter.

Jason (17:57):
Exactly. Not at the

Caroline (17:57):
moment, but Actually, in the moment is the best. And
not the day after. So that's whywe just moved I I was basically
doing three days a week untilthis last week. And I told
Jason, was like, okay, for thesenext, like, two weeks, I have
got to just go down to one day aweek because I feel so good on
the day.

Jason (18:15):
Yeah.

Caroline (18:15):
The day after and I'm not doing anything wild, just to
be clear. Like, I'm not like

Jason (18:20):
You're not doing a 100 burpees. You're just doing 50.

Caroline (18:22):
Not doing burpees, for sure. It's just like a little
bit of body weight movementstuff. It's, you know,
stretching, opening up my, like,pelvis, like, stuff like that.
But at this point, your body isso susceptible to strain that
like, yeah, my body is tired thenext day. Yeah.
And I don't wanna be likefatigued body wise going into,

(18:43):
you know, the marathon that isbirth. But yeah, I keep I keep
giving myself permission to notgo, but I'm just like, as long
as I

Jason (18:49):
feel good, I'm gonna go. I think my other two favorite
things, number one, putting allthe nursery stuff together,
because I love building things.And also, it's all really cute
stuff. Like, you picked out,like, such great stuff. Thank
you.
I did pick out the crib.

Caroline (18:59):
So You did

Jason (18:59):
pick even the crib. Though, like, hanging the art is
not a fun thing, not a fun tasktogether, but it's okay. We we
go

Caroline (19:06):
pretty well.

Jason (19:07):
I know. And you did a good job of loosening because,
like

Caroline (19:09):
I did.

Jason (19:10):
You know, you just I'm the one who has to hold the
thing and tell me where to go.

Caroline (19:12):
I was actually very loose. The third trimester has
gotten it's like, I don't give Idon't care if it's, like, super
strange.

Jason (19:18):
And then the other thing what was I just gonna say? Oh, I
actually have been surprisedwith myself and finding your
belly to be cute.

Caroline (19:27):
Yeah.

Jason (19:27):
Not because I've never in my life have been like, oh,
pregnant belly is gross. Notwhatsoever. But my person having
a belly just always seemed kindof weird to me because I've
always seen you as one shape.

Caroline (19:37):
Sure.

Jason (19:37):
So I'm like, what's it gonna be like when you're not
that shape? Sure. And it hasbeen really cute. Just like
watch your belly grow. Andyou've had a pretty cute belly.

Caroline (19:43):
Thank you.

Jason (19:44):
And your belly button has popped. I'm sorry.

Caroline (19:46):
It hasn't been.

Jason (19:46):
I'm sorry. It has. You went

Caroline (19:49):
No. I didn't. The the lip is preventing it from
happening. First of all

Jason (19:54):
The lip we're talking about is the belly button lip.

Caroline (19:56):
The belly button lip. We had a bet going of whether my
belly button would pop. First ofall, I commend you because I
think that's very honest of youto say. I think that people
don't feel like they can saystuff.

Jason (20:05):
Oh, I'm a pretty honest guy.

Caroline (20:07):
You are a very honest guy. But I think that there is
truth to that. It's like, it isa little bit like your brain's
like, my I'm used to seeing mypartner in this one way. Like,
what what is my brain gonna feelwhen their body is changing like
a totally And different I hadthe same question. I was like,
how is how is my brain going toperceive my own body?

(20:27):
And we all have body stuff. Youknow what I mean? Like, just
live in a society that is verybody conscious. And I agree. I
have been pleasantly surprisedwith and I think it helps that
it's happened so gradually.

Jason (20:38):
Yeah. For sure.

Caroline (20:39):
So I I think it, like, gets your brain able to kind of,
like, see yourself in adifferent shape.

Jason (20:44):
Yeah.

Caroline (20:45):
And I have enjoyed, like, dressing the bump. I only
had one sort of, like, weekthere in the middle. I think it
was, like, a second trimesterwhere, like, I started really
not being able to fit into anyof my even, like, clothes at
all, where I remember friendswere visiting and I we were
trying to go out. I this thinkwas like the Aquarium Day or

(21:06):
whatever. And I had to try onlike three different outfits to
like even remotely wearsomething that felt comfortable
and cute.
And like that was reallyfrustrating.

Jason (21:13):
Right.

Caroline (21:13):
But I those moments have been few and far between.
So that's very interesting onthe body body side

Jason (21:20):
effect. Also, just wanna make it like a 100% clear. A
woman's body can look howevershe wants it to look, and it's
not in my thing to say one wayor the other. I was more just I
was more just commenting of likea pregnant belly. I didn't know
how it'd feel for my person to

Caroline (21:33):
You're have fine. The the

Jason (21:35):
The police aren't coming for you.

Caroline (21:37):
Police aren't coming for you.

Jason (21:38):
Yeah. You know, I'm just trying to, like, I'm saying it
in clear out here. You know? I Idon't wanna I don't wanna catch
any strays, you know, out herein

Caroline (21:44):
fuck out. That's a very normal thing to feel, and I
it's totally fine to share that.

Jason (21:49):
Okay. Next question. Let's this one's great.

Caroline (21:53):
What are somebody asked what are the some of the
best ways Jason has helpedthroughout the pregnancy?

Jason (21:57):
I didn't ask this question just so everyone's
curious. So I don't know any

Caroline (22:00):
What if it was you? Just like I I, like, submit
question. I'm like, so, like,what are, like, the most, like,
standout ways that Caroline hasshown you that she's the most
admirable and cutest pregnantperson of all time.

Jason (22:14):
Of all time?

Caroline (22:14):
It's so weird we got that question. That's so
bizarre. No. Some of the bestways. Well, definitely, this is
an obvious one, but, like,taking the lion's share of
chores and kind of, helping outwhenever possible to like make
meals or do things like that.
That's something that you do inour lives anyway just because
like, you know, sometimes I'llhave like a mental health day or
I'll do whatever and Yeah.You've always been very helpful

(22:35):
with picking up the slack inthat regard. But I my answer to
this question that I came upwith was, think the biggest way
that you have helped is just bybeing, like, all in on, like,
enthusiasm. So, you know, whenwe go to doctor's appointments,
like, really being present,really, like, wanting to be

(22:57):
there, wanting to fully beengaged in the experience. And I
know that that's not that easyfor you because the way that I
know you well enough to know theway that your brain works is
like, until there's a baby thatwe're holding, you're sorta
like, is there a baby?

Jason (23:10):
You know? Also, I think it was it was the same thing for
like, just like getting topregnancy. Right. So it's like,
until like, you're pregnant andlike, we're going to the
appointments, it's very hard forme to like

Caroline (23:20):
Think about that.

Jason (23:20):
Think about it because like, I can't see it. Like, my
logical brain is like, I don'tknow what's going on here. Like,
we have other things to do.

Caroline (23:25):
So So I think, like, that that enthusiasm or whether
it's that or whether it's, like,doing your own research or, you
know, having your little chattybitty that tells you, like, what
I'm going through every week.You sending me, like, TikToks
and things like that that yousee with, like, baby hacks.
Instagram reels of, like, babyhacks or, hey, I wanna do, like,

(23:46):
I wanna do something like thisor let's do it this way or
whatever. Like, you've just beena very active participant, and I
really appreciate that. And thathas helped me because I feel
like I have a true partner goingthrough this, like, weird life
experience.

Jason (23:58):
Yeah. For sure.

Caroline (23:59):
Again, I know the bar is on the ground. Everyone,
like, obviously, that's what apartner should do

Jason (24:03):
Yeah.

Caroline (24:03):
As your brain, life, and

Jason (24:05):
But I think a lot of people not a lot of people may
be listening to this show, but Ithink just in general, there are
certain circumstances in lifewhere you want someone to show
up in a certain way and, like,you think that they will, but
then they don't. And then it'slike

Caroline (24:17):
Yeah. And there is a reality that we can acknowledge
to the fact that I think in someways it is really hard to go
through this experience as thepartner, not the person who is
birthing, because you have tomentally work harder to, like,
be invested because you're notfeeling everything.

Jason (24:32):
Yeah. It's just it's very different. Right?

Caroline (24:33):
You just It's very different.

Jason (24:34):
I I and I've heard this from some dad content that I've
watched where it's just like, Ifeel so disconnected from this
entire process because Iliterally I physically can't
empathize. I I don't know whatthis feels like. And like, you
know, and again, even before youwere pregnant, like, go about my
day, like, Groundhog Day. Like,I wake up and every day I'm just
like, whoop, we gotta reset. I'mjust going.
You wake up with, like, theemotions of yesterday still.

Caroline (24:55):
The residual.

Jason (24:56):
And it's just, you know, and then to bring pregnancy into
that. So, yeah, I mean, I I'vetried to do my best to push
myself a little bit further thanI normally would to show up for
you emotionally, to create spacefor you, to try to empathize
where I have very little empathynormally and just like try to be
like, okay, like just be hereand like understand and try to
be helpful and whatever. Let'sreport back after the baby comes

(25:19):
out to really give me a scorebecause that's where it might
all crumble down.

Caroline (25:23):
You're gonna do great.

Jason (25:23):
Okay, great. Fantastic.

Caroline (25:25):
How have you prepared financially for having a baby? A
lot.

Jason (25:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think this is

Caroline (25:30):
We waited a long time.

Jason (25:32):
Yeah, this is the number one reason why we're having a
baby where you're 37 and I'm 43.It's because we've been together
for fifteen years and we couldhave done this at the five year
mark and that would have beenkind of like the quote unquote
normal time, but it would havebeen a horrible time for us
financially, and it would havebeen a very difficult time for
us mentally.

Caroline (25:52):
Totally.

Jason (25:52):
And so, I think waiting this long, that has been the
biggest preparation for us.Yeah.

Caroline (25:58):
Know? Because we've had time to build savings. We've
had time to build investments.We've had time to build, you
know, business foundations. So,it's like, we have all of these
foundations in place that haveallowed us to be able to take
time off.

Jason (26:11):
Yeah.

Caroline (26:12):
To have a financial cushion in case, like, you know,
something changes.

Jason (26:17):
To be able to afford a night nanny, which we talked
about in our

Caroline (26:19):
To be able to afford a night planning. A night nanny,
which So like we are using forthe first three months.

Jason (26:24):
Yeah. Everybody kinda knows we're doing that, and and
that is an incredibly amazingthing to be able to do. Yeah.
And to live in a country where,you know, we have friends that
looked into it in anothercountry and like, it was not
affordable for them. I would sayaffordable in quotes because
that's on a spectrum foreverybody to decide.
But I think for us, like it doesfeel doable and it is something

(26:45):
that just like, we know thatsleep is so important to us and
like mental health is soimportant to us and being able
to do that. And so, yeah, youknow, preparing for that for
years, putting savings aside,and then also kind of like doing
our final launch of wanderingaimfully really helped to build
up the financial runway in amonthly thing so that when we
take off for three months andwe're not working, when we're
pivoting our business towardsthe end of this year, and we're

(27:07):
not making any additional newincome, like we have a buffer
for all of that and that'sreally helpful. And and I think
too, like, you know, we started,you know, just kind of like
preparing financially foranother person in our household.
Like we started a quote unquotecollege savings fund years ago.

Caroline (27:23):
Yeah. Think that was 2016.

Jason (27:26):
Yeah. And and we've just been putting like I think when
we started, we were putting like$50 into it a month, whatever.
It's up to like $200 goes intoit a month now. But like, by the
time our our baby turns 18 andis ready to make a decision on
like, do you wanna travel? Doyou wanna go to college?
Do you wanna whatever? There'sgonna be such a a sizable chunk
of money sitting and waiting forthem that like neither of us
had. And we don't want them tojust like have it and do what

(27:47):
they want with it, but like tohave the optionality to be able
to do things is I think anincredible like place to to be.
And it just that just takestwenty years of thinking ahead.
Exactly.
And and the ability to put moneyaside. But but like I said, even
just $50 a month can can set upan incredible kind of, like,
thing for for a child down theroad. So I'm glad that we did
little things like that becauseit's not something that either

(28:09):
of us necessarily, like, werethinking about. We just started
doing and now I'm like, oh, I'mso glad we started doing this
because it's gonna set us up andset them up for something. We

Caroline (28:18):
do talk often though about, like, we didn't have any
of these financial resourceswhen we were growing up. And so
there's a delicate balance of,like, wanting to offer financial
like, a good financialfoundation for our kids, but
also not wanting to set them upfor a life full of

Jason (28:39):
Everything you can do

Caroline (28:40):
to privilege and handed to them. And because so
many of life's best lessons, notjust about empathy and
understanding the way that theworld works, but also just, you
know, hard work and buildingcharacter and grit and all of
those things only come when youdon't know that you have a
safety net. So it's like, it's avery delicate balance. It's
something we talk about often.And I think the biggest pill to

(29:03):
swallow as parents is knowingthat if you wanna teach your
kids those lessons, you also, asparents, have to be willing to
be inconvenienced.

Jason (29:11):
Yeah.

Caroline (29:11):
So that you can build up their threshold for their
tolerance for inconvenience.You're you're a family. So
you're going to have to also beinconvenienced and teach them
patience and teach them like,listen, we don't you can't
always just like throw any otherproblem. Yeah. Like, so

Jason (29:26):
I think I figured out how we solve this to not have like a
silver spoon baby.

Caroline (29:29):
Go ahead.

Jason (29:30):
We can order two appetizers in any meal, but they
can only order one No. Or

Caroline (29:36):
None, babe.

Jason (29:37):
Okay.

Caroline (29:39):
You're we're we're gonna work on it. I love how
that was like headed in adirection.

Jason (29:42):
It was it was completely a joke no matter what, But now
that I said one, I was like,yeah, should be zero, I guess.
Wow. No appetizers for the baby?

Caroline (29:49):
Hey. I was a no appetizer family, and

Jason (29:51):
So, I mean, I

Caroline (29:52):
turned out kickass.

Jason (29:53):
Yeah. I don't even remember going out to dinner
that much as a kid. We We mayhave.

Caroline (29:56):
I just have that. On the podcast before, but I will
never forget going on, like, myfirst couple dates with you, and
you were an appetizer guy. I waslike

Jason (30:03):
Yeah.

Caroline (30:03):
You're rich.

Jason (30:05):
Yeah. Like Well

Caroline (30:06):
What are you doing? You're being so irresponsible.

Jason (30:08):
Also, in college, when I worked at Athlete's Foot, which
is a shoe store that does Idon't even think it exists
anymore, where you would go inand try on shoes and buy them. I
would take my check from that,and I would literally then go
to, like, Chili's with myfriends, and, like, I would pay
for dinner for everybody. Thenwould

Caroline (30:24):
have because you're Mecca.

Jason (30:24):
Then I would have no money. No money. Like, I would
just, that's where all my moneywent.

Caroline (30:27):
Paying for dinner.

Jason (30:28):
I really do. Alright.

Caroline (30:29):
Okay. So how has it felt stepping back from WAIM?

Jason (30:33):
Okay. So let me talk about You can talk

Caroline (30:35):
about this the most.

Jason (30:36):
I'm, like, the most excited about is so we ended up
hiring an operations manager.Her name is Sara.

Caroline (30:42):
Hi Sara, if you're listening to this.

Jason (30:43):
I'm not even sure Sara knows we have a podcast.

Caroline (30:45):
Yes, she does.

Jason (30:47):
But just mostly because it hasn't been in any of her
workflow yet because she came ontwo weeks ago now.

Caroline (30:52):
Yep.

Jason (30:53):
The last time we recorded a podcast was five weeks ago.
But, that part has been amazing.So just to give you a very
quick, overview for those of youwho care and you've been
thinking about hiring someone,we have not hired a person to be
like an operations manager slashlike assistant type of person
really ever. Like I, we had one

Caroline (31:10):
I had an assistant when I had made Vibrant. That
was before Wandering Aimfully.

Jason (31:13):
Yes. And then I had one during the I wear your shirt
days. Yep. So this is like verylittle experience with this, but
we went through a hiring processthrough Upwork, created and job
85 people applied. And thelittle test that I did, I like
sharing this because I think itopens people's eyes to this, is

(31:34):
I did a little three questionthing I wanted people to fill
out.
I didn't want their CV. I don'tcare about their resume. I don't
even want your work history. Itdoes not matter to me. I just
want you to show me that you cando the tasks that are like
important for me to do, to haveyou do.
And these were very smallthings. It was like, you know,
fix this transcript, find thiserror in this paragraph and then
like do this other thing. And,but my like, big brain moment,

(31:58):
which I don't have a lot oftimes, but sometimes I have a
big brain moment. Was like, oh,let me put this into ChatGPT
just to see how it respondsbecause my guess is a lot of
people are gonna do that. Boy,it was formulaic in in its
response.
And I was just like, okay, thisis fine. But like, the first
answer was wrong, because it waslike sourcing incorrect thing.
Anyway, I we post this jobposting. 79 people

Caroline (32:19):
Out of 85.

Jason (32:19):
Out of 85 used ChatGPT and copied and pasted Just

Caroline (32:23):
straight copy pasted.

Jason (32:24):
The exact thing. Yeah. So I was like, oh, this is so easy.
I can just thumbs down everysingle one of these people
because some of them even looklike they would be a good fit.
They have tons of experience.
They've made a bunch of moneythrough jobs on Upwork, which is
a good way to know that peoplekeep getting rehired.

Caroline (32:36):
It's like, if you're not going that extra step to
double double check the workExactly. Like, great. Use
ChatGPT. Like, we're not againstthat at all. Yeah.
You you need to add your humantouch. You need to you need to
double check that the work iscorrect. You need to rephrase
things. Like, just go that extrastep. So that

Jason (32:54):
was Yeah.

Caroline (32:54):
Didn't You sent me that, and it was you sent me the
inbox of, like, all theresponses. And when I tell you
it was so eye opening to seelike just the straight copy and
paste. Like some were almostidentical in their

Jason (33:07):
responses. Were identical.

Caroline (33:08):
Yeah. They were all identical in the structure of
the response. It was wild.

Jason (33:12):
So anyway, Sara was one of the six. He did a good job.
And then I sent a follow-uptest, which I then paid people
for their time, one hour to dolike seven things to just see
like how far they could get. Itwas so interesting to see how
people handled that. Like, somepeople just like they spent the
one hour and then they juststopped and then they didn't say
anything.
Some people got everything donein the one hour, but like it was
kind of rushed and like it wasagain, it's okay. I just want to

(33:34):
see how people handled it. ButSara was, her response was just
like the best. She was like,first of all, I knew there was
an hour, but like I had tofinish all these tasks. Like I
was not gonna let them goundone.
Was like, oh, that's a hugegreen flag because I just love a
person who's like me. That'slike a dog a I gotta get this
finished. And then just like,it's very simple and silly, but
like she uses emojis a lot. Shehas a good sense of humor. And

(33:55):
like, this is someone who And

Caroline (33:56):
it's just a personality match.

Jason (33:58):
Yeah. And it's like, I'm gonna interact with this person
on a day to day basis. Like, Iwant it to be a person I wanna
interact with. And so I evenfind myself, like, we're
Whatsapping, you know, everysingle day now as she's working
through things. And, like, Ifind it so enjoyable to see her
messages come through.
Whereas, like, I've hadrelationships with other people,
developers, whatever. Like, Isee like, their, like, name pops
up with a message, I'm justkinda, like, bummed because I
know it's gonna be not a funYeah. And it doesn't have to be

(34:20):
fun, but I'm just saying, like,the interaction is gonna It be

Caroline (34:22):
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it.

Jason (34:23):
So, anyway, we're we're two weeks in, but extremely
happy. So I will say the the thehow is it felt stepping back?
Weird. Yeah. Because for theentire time of running Wandering
Aimfully specifically, I havedone all of the admin tasks.
Yep. I have done all of theSlack community management. And
then also in Teachery , I'vedone all the customer support.

(34:44):
And now Sara is doing all ofthose things.

Caroline (34:46):
Yeah. You've just been behind, like, the control panel
this entire time, like pushingall the levers and making sure
everything's running. And to,like, have someone step in and
sit in that chair, basically, isgotta feel so weird.

Jason (34:57):
Well, and the weirdest thing is, like, right now, we
don't have a baby yet. So it'slike, we still have the time.
So, like, I still have my, like,morning, like, routine stuff.

Caroline (35:04):
We're gonna have a conversation about that because
you're gonna need to taper offpretty soon here.

Jason (35:07):
Taper off what?

Caroline (35:08):
Like, you still have your hand in so many different
things.

Jason (35:10):
Oh, I know. But but the way that I have it now is, like,
I see it, but I don't doanything.

Caroline (35:14):
I know.

Jason (35:15):
Which is very weird.

Caroline (35:16):
Very weird.

Jason (35:16):
So and and I I know listen. When we have, like, a
brand newborn newborn, there'splenty of pockets of time
throughout the day. Like, I'veI've had enough friends who've
been dads that are like, yeah.Like, you still find, like, one
or two hours easily to, like, dothings. But even that, I'm
forcing myself now where I'llget up.
I have plenty of time. I havenothing to do. There's an inbox
of like 10 things that I coulddo, but I'm like, thought it was

(35:37):
gonna handle this in one hour. Idon't need to do this. So that
has been extremely weird.
I I will say the one thingthough that I I really do
struggle with is like our ourSlack community.

Caroline (35:47):
Yeah. Me me too.

Jason (35:48):
Which is like, come on.

Caroline (35:50):
No. I struggle I struggle with the thought.

Jason (35:53):
I only I gave her a look and you couldn't see it because
we're not on video becauseCaroline does not exist in our
Slack

Caroline (35:58):
But community the reason I said had that response
is to because to me, the Slackcommunity is, like, where
everyone's hanging out. And thething that I meant about that is
I feel a sense of, like,responsibility for providing
this continuity of training andinformation and community and

(36:19):
everything. And it's so weird tome to be like, okay, for the
next three months, like, we'regonna kinda be out. Like, even
though I'm not there every day,like, it's the part of me that,
like

Jason (36:30):
You know I'm there.

Caroline (36:31):
I know you're there. I know I know that we, you know
and of course, like, we toldeveryone, everyone's well aware
even with this last launch. Soit's like it's not like I feel
like we're somehow, you know,shirking our responsibilities in
any way, shape, or form. Andalso we have such an amazing
community that they're all like,yeah, take the time, like and a
lot

Jason (36:46):
of them are

Caroline (36:46):
parents and

Jason (36:47):
Really, the the timing couldn't be better because the
summer is always the slowesttime in our Slack community.
It's like August, it's like,it's everyone goes quiet because
people are going on vacations ortaking holidays or just slowing
down, even if they're in adifferent hemisphere, like it's
just like the vibe is muchslower. So the timing has
actually worked out pretty well.But, yeah, I mean, we have
coaching sessions that are gonnago up for these like live quote
unquote premieres where wefigured out how to like build

(37:09):
this like auto play coachingthing for the next three months.
But like, I mean, I wouldimagine at the times that those
happen, if nothing's going on inour life with Baby, like, I'll
probably watch it with everybodythere and just like tune in.
But it'll be so weird that like,it's not us doing it live, which
we've been doing for six years.So, all in all, it's felt very
weird to me as the person who islike so into the business every

(37:32):
single day. But I will sayfinding Sara and having someone
who's very competent and capableto take over all these things
has been an amazing weight offmy shoulders. And it really
gives me a lot of excitement forlike the next chapter of
business for us, where we canreally focus on the high level
creative ideas, execution ofthose things, and then have a

(37:52):
really competent person to likehelp manage everything and like
have everything work smoothly.

Caroline (37:58):
Yeah.

Jason (37:58):
So I I look forward to that and yeah, we'll we'll
definitely keep everybody postedon how that goes.

Caroline (38:03):
And I will say that it has surprised me. This won't
come as a surprise to manypeople out there, but, like, my
brain has definitely done thething where the number one thing
that's taking up my thoughts andand focus is just like becoming
a mom. Yeah. Which, you know,may sound very, very obvious,
but I would have thought that Iwould have been someone who at

(38:23):
least would have been like, oh,I wanna work on stuff here or
there. And it's like, no, no,no.
Like, my brain just wants to,like, fully shut out the world,
shut out everything else, like,anything that my my my mom was
like, oh, you have, like, timebefore the baby comes. Like,
don't you wanna do some art andstuff? I'm like, no. I actually,
I just am, like, going fullyinto my, like, mom cave Yeah.
Because I feel like I'm about togo through this, like, huge

(38:46):
transition.
And I just want, like, my littlebubble to, like, get my mind
right and, like, be fullygrounded and present for her
when she comes. So that that hasbeen kind of surprising to me,
which I think most people wouldbe like, no. Like, obviously,
your brain does that.

Jason (39:01):
Yeah. Okay. Next question?

Caroline (39:04):
Well, parlays into the next question. What are the most
surprising or unexpectedemotions you've experienced
throughout the journey?

Jason (39:11):
Oh, I have so many.

Caroline (39:13):
Well, I I hey. Let's start with you, actually,
because I'm curious, like, whenyou envisioned how you would be
as, like, a person preparing tobe a father and, like, through
pregnancy, like, how does theexperience match up to what you
expected of yourself?

Jason (39:29):
I think until the baby comes, like, there's just it's
so hard for a person like me to,like, have any emotional
connection to it.

Caroline (39:37):
Of course. Yeah. I mean, like, I know that one of
your fears going into it was,like, the fear of losing your
autonomy, the fear of losingyour freedom. But I guess that
has been a fear that you've hadto step into during all this. So
that's not really surprising.

Jason (39:50):
No. Not at all. And I and again, like, until the baby
comes and the baby's here and,like, we have a whole new life
routine and setup with a wholeother person involved, I don't
have any, like, feelings aboutit yet other than fear, other
than like, you know, and that'slike the one thing that's been a
constant that like my brain goesback to when I'm like out on a

(40:10):
walk or I'm doing whatever.Know, it's like, oh, like, this
is not gonna feel this easy inthe future. Like, you're gonna
have something in the back ofyour mind that like, oh, I need
to be, you know, be doing thisor whatever.

Caroline (40:21):
Which is so funny because I feel like out of the
two of us, I'm more, like,historically, I'm the one that
future trips more than you.Like, I'm the one who is like,
oh my gosh, like, this is gonnabe this way or like try like
painting through the scenarios.And on my side, what's the most
surprising or unexpected thing?The most surprising or
unexpected thing has been that Ihaven't been doing that, like,

(40:41):
at all. Yeah.
Which is weird. So it's justlike, I feel like there's been
this, like, role reversal kindof.

Jason (40:46):
But it might also be because, like, you have so much
physically to think about that,like, you don't even have the
space to necessarily, like

Caroline (40:52):
I I think you're right. Like, it kinda brings me
into the present moment becauseit's And I have like

Jason (40:55):
no physical I

Caroline (40:56):
have nothing.

Jason (40:57):
Like, to deal to deal with. And so all I can do is,
like, mentally trip up over,like

Caroline (41:01):
Totally.

Jason (41:01):
What's it gonna be like?

Caroline (41:02):
So That's interesting.

Jason (41:03):
But, yeah, I'm I I'm very interested because I have in a
lot of content that I haveconsumed about dad stuff is how
difficult it is for a dad toconnect Mhmm. To the baby in the
beginning. Mhmm. And I have ahard time connecting

Caroline (41:17):
Mhmm.

Jason (41:17):
With other humans in general.

Caroline (41:19):
Mhmm.

Jason (41:19):
And and truthfully, honestly, other people's babies,
I have never cared aboutwhatsoever. And I that's not
even like a intentional. It'sjust like someone's like, oh,
here's this baby. And I'm like,I don't care about that baby.
Like, it's not that I don'tthink the baby's cute.
It's not that I don't think thatlike, oh, like, me, like,
snuggle the baby. Like, Iunderstand that part of it. It's
like, I promise I'm not rightnow. But, yeah, I'm actually

(41:56):
very curious to see how thatfeels for me because I don't
know if it's gonna be different,and I'm I'm trying to leave the
door open for it to be differentand not to think, oh, this is
how I'm going to be as well.

Caroline (42:09):
Yeah. So that you don't, like, kinda manifest
that. However, we have had lotsof conversations about also not
trying to force you into anexpectation that's only gonna
cause conflict. Do you know whatI mean? So it's like, whatever,
like and I think you I'mgrateful for these other dads
who have shared stuff like thatwhere like, hey, it took me a
while to, like, develop thisbond.

(42:30):
It took me a while to, like, formy like, or, like, I wasn't
super into the newborn phase,but, when my baby got nine
months and, like, starteddeveloping a personality, like,
I could connect to them so muchmore. And I think what I've
heard from people who areparents is like, everyone's
experience is different.

Jason (42:45):
Yeah.

Caroline (42:45):
How everyone bonds with their children is
different. And so don't, like,put an expectation on yourself.
Even for mothers, like, there'sthis, like, notion that you're
supposed to, like, beimmediately, like, head over
heels in love, and people whoaren't can feel really like
inadequate or like something'swrong with them. And I think
hearing from people that that'snot always the experience is

(43:06):
really helpful because it givespermission to just have an
authentic experience. Like Mhmm.
We obviously love our daughter.We obviously are excited to be
her parents. And however that exlike, connection evolves is just
natural, and it's the way thatit's supposed to be. And I think
you create more problems whenyou place an expectation on
yourself and think this wassupposed to be this way. So and

(43:28):
and also it can cause, I think,tension in relationships where,
like, maybe I do connect rightaway, maybe you don't.
And then I'm like, oh, youshould be feeling this way. And
it's like, that's never gonnalead to a good situation.

Jason (43:39):
Yeah.

Caroline (43:40):
So I'm giving you the space and the permission to
just, like, let it feel howeverit's going to feel. However, and
again, not to put this on you, Iknow you and I think I do think
that when you meet her, like,don't have doubts or fears about
whether it happens on day one,whether it happens on month one,
whether it happens over thecourse of that first year.

Jason (44:01):
18. When she turns 18 and moves out.

Caroline (44:03):
It's like Dean leaves the house. I don't have a doubt
in my body that you are going tolove her, connect with her. If
anything, I'm like, I knowexactly how this is gonna go.
She's gonna be a daddy's girl.She's gonna love you more than
me, and it's fine.
It's Probably because you're notthirsty for It's true.

Jason (44:21):
Yeah. Yeah. That's how it is.

Caroline (44:22):
And so but but going back to the question of, like,
what has been most surprising,everything about pregnancy has
been surprising to me because Ithought it was gonna be so
different for me based on howhard it was for us to and,
again, hard is relative. I knowpeople go through much harder
fertility journeys, but, like,it was rocky for us in the

(44:44):
beginning. And I had this ideain my head that, like, because
we had experienced loss, that Iwas gonna be anxious the entire
time. Really, just in general,my fear about becoming a mother
with, like, all the hormones andthe uncertainty was that I was
gonna kind of regress in myanxiety healing journey, and
then I was going to have a lotof anxiety throughout the

(45:04):
process. I don't do well withnew body sensations.
I used to struggle a lot withhealth anxiety. So the idea of
doing shots every day, the ideaof going to the hospital all the
time, the idea of getting blooddrawn all the time. I was like,
this is gonna this is gonna makeme spiral. And the it has not at
all. At all.
And it's just that has been sosurprising to me and a testament

(45:27):
to, I think, anyone listeningout there who you're dealing
with an anxiety disorder apartfrom pregnancy, you're just
dealing with an anxietydisorder. You I think it's very
easy to create a narrative aboutyourself that you will feel like
this forever. And I just wannabe like a little bit of a beacon
of hope of like, it is totallypossible to rewire your brain.
It takes a lot of work. It takesa lot of tools.

(45:48):
It takes a lot of support. Ittakes a lot of time, but you're
not your your brain is not setin stone. And you can learn
skills that can have you show upin the world and relate to the
world in a different way. Andthat has been my experience
through this. And so it's been,so many things about it have

(46:08):
been surprising.

Jason (46:09):
Yeah. I I will say just to say it here. I think I've
said it before in otherpodcasts, but, like, incredibly
impressed with the handling ofthe daily injection.

Caroline (46:19):
Thank you.

Jason (46:19):
That is a thing that is like, that is a very difficult
thing to do every single day ofyour life because it's not even
just like a little, what's it,subcutaneous, is that what the
thing is called?

Caroline (46:27):
Yeah, like

Jason (46:28):
tiny little like pen, like the pen click injection
where you just like, it's like aboop, which is what we did when
we did the embryo freezing.Mhmm. This is like a full on
syringe that has to like go intoyour skin and

Caroline (46:40):
And like it burns.

Jason (46:41):
And like that for nine months straight, plus, you know,
you'll have to do it for anothersix weeks. Like, that is so
difficult to do. And especiallyon days when like, now in the
third trimester, when you'rejust feeling terrible.

Caroline (46:55):
And when she's kicking me during it, I'm like, girl.

Jason (46:58):
Yeah. And I mean, this

Caroline (46:59):
is not making it easy on me.

Jason (47:01):
Yeah. I I just think anyway, I just wanted to say
that I I'm that's very muchcommendable to how you've
handled that.

Caroline (47:06):
Well, and I will say

Jason (47:07):
I wouldn't say admirable, but I would say commendable.

Caroline (47:09):
I will say I was very scared. I was very scared going
into it. It felt like aninsurmountable task. And then I
just focused on one day at atime, and it's really not that
bad. Like, on a scale of, like,I want to, like, I dread this.
This is something that, like,every day I wake up and I'm
like, I have to do this today. Idon't even think about it until
it's almost time. And then Iwould say probably half the

(47:31):
days, I'm like, I don't wanna dothis. The other half the days,
I'm like, gotta go do this. LikeYeah.
It is and it's fine. And somedays are awful, but you get
through it. And if anything, Ihave somehow framed it in my
mind to be like, every day, itfeels like I'm going into the
gym to prepare me for how todeal with pain mentally for
birth Yeah. Or for being a mom.That's what I just kinda like

(47:52):
view it as.
And I view each injection as anopportunity to like practice
being more comfortable with painand not running away from it.
And I think that's really helpedme.

Jason (48:01):
Great. Alright. Couple more questions here.

Caroline (48:04):
How has it been going through pregnancy after
miscarriages? So just to recapeveryone, we had two very, very
early miscarriages. So what theywould call a chemical pregnancy,
which means you are pregnant,but just the embryo is implants
but is never able to kind ofdevelop. And we were diagnosed

(48:25):
with two blood disorders whichwere the causes of those losses.
And so that that's what we'retalking about with the shots.
I had to go on daily bloodthinners, which worked. And and
that was another thing I'll sayabout the shots is, like, on the
hard days, I just lean into thegratitude of, like, somebody
discovered that this is asolution. Yeah. And the fact
that we can even have a child atall is a miracle that someone,

(48:49):
like, figured that out. So Ijust try to be grateful for
that.
But I will say I definitelythought I think the way that it
has impacted the pregnancy is,like, it took me I know it still
probably takes you more time tolike connect to the fact that we
have an actual child.

Jason (49:06):
Yeah.

Caroline (49:07):
But I think my brain was protecting me from like
really connecting with her for along time. Like because I was
just sort of like, it's not eventhat I was actively like
something bad is gonna happen orwe're gonna lose the baby or
something like that. I thoughtthat would happen. I didn't
really find those thoughts to betoo intrusive. But it's more

(49:28):
just like I felt this partitionbetween my brain and being able
to connect to who she is and thefact that she's here.
And I think it's just aprotective mechanism. I will say
because on our because ourlosses were so early, as soon as
we got past that, like, five orsix week mark

Jason (49:45):
Mhmm.

Caroline (49:45):
My brain did this cool thing where it was like, oh, the
outcome can be different now.

Jason (49:49):
Mhmm.

Caroline (49:50):
Like, know what I mean? Like, those first few
weeks were actually the hardestbecause my brain was kinda like,
every time I'd go to thebathroom, I'd be like I'm
expecting to see blood. I'mexpecting to, like, just lose
loser. And that part was reallyhard. Yeah.
But then once I got past thatpoint and I think that's gotta
be so much harder for people whohave later losses

Jason (50:10):
Yeah.

Caroline (50:11):
Because they have to wait that whole time until they
can kinda, like, breathe. Andthen I will say I was holding my
breath definitely at some of thebigger scans. Like, I had
probably one or two, like,anatomy scans, like, early on
where, like, I felt nervousgoing into it of, like, kind of
bracing myself for bad news. Andwe also have friends who have
had, you know, gotten really badnews. And so but I just would

(50:33):
constantly tell myself, don'tfear something that isn't here
yet.
Like, don't you know what Imean? And I'm trying to keep
myself from that, like, futuretripping. And so, yeah, I I
would say it has taken a lot ofmental effort in order to not
experience anxiety after lossYeah. And to try to connect. But

(50:56):
I think once we got enough scansunder our belts where it was
like, she's normal, she'sgrowing, she's healthy, she's
breathing, she's beautiful,like, I I started to feel more
confident that like this andthen something weird happened
where then when we got to thethird trimester, then the the
fear kind of popped up againbecause it was like, well, now

(51:17):
I'm so close to meeting her.
If something happens now

Jason (51:20):
Yeah.

Caroline (51:20):
That would be so devastating. And, like, it's
devastating anytime, but, like,you know, I had some fear about
that. But one of the brightspots of being a high risk
pregnancy is that we go all thetime to see her. I know a lot of
women don't have that. Like,they're only seeing her seeing
their kids, like, multiple weeksin between.

Jason (51:39):
Yeah.

Caroline (51:40):
But we get to have scans or we get to have doctor's
visits where I feel moreconfident of like

Jason (51:45):
Yes. Once a week.

Caroline (51:46):
She's doing she's doing well.

Jason (51:47):
Yeah. There's a lot of a lot of attention paid. So, yeah,
we have a very close eye.

Caroline (51:52):
Yeah. So that's that's how it's been for me. And I
mean, I don't think it'sprobably changed much for you.

Jason (51:56):
It does. No.

Caroline (51:57):
Yeah. Because you're like

Jason (51:59):
It didn't didn't happen to to me physically.

Caroline (52:01):
Yeah. But it

Jason (52:02):
was I think I think had it been later on. Yeah. It would
have been different, but becauseI think it was so early, there's
just nothing there's nothing Ican see. There's nothing I can,
like, I don't yeah. It's it'snot that different for me.

Caroline (52:13):
Yeah. Which I think is

Jason (52:14):
I'm just glad that it's been good for you.

Caroline (52:16):
Totally. And I I do just wanna say, like, I do think
that is actually one of theharder parts of early loss is
that, like, really, it can bevery isolating because your
partner sort of isn't investedyet. And it's like you're the
only one who's sort of, like,experiencing that that hope and
that feeling and taking the testand doing the thing and feeling
feeling the pregnancy symptomsand all that. And then all of a

(52:39):
sudden, it's just like gone.Like that, it's really hard.
So Yeah. But I just I literally,when I have days where my body
aches and I'm just sort of likeuncomfortable, I think back to
like it was not that long agowhere I can connect to like
sitting on the couch and beingso sad and wondering like when
it would happen Yeah. Like if itwould happen. And and so I just

(52:59):
back to those moments, and I'mlike, this is the moment that I
was, like, hoping for. So, stopyour complaining.
No. I'm just kidding. Yeah.

Jason (53:07):
Alright. Four more questions.

Caroline (53:09):
Yep. So, this one was interesting. You can't know for
sure, but how do you thinkbecoming parents will change
you? What has already started toshift? Has pregnancy made you
see the world differently?
This is a very deep question andthat we could probably do a
whole podcast on.

Jason (53:23):
Yeah. I think it would be fun to do this one a year from
now. Yeah. Like, this is apodcast episode to to kinda come
back to. I I mean, yeah.
Again, this is just my, like,logical rational brain. I don't
think it's changed me whatsoeverbecause the baby's not here yet.
So it's like, until the babygets here, like, I don't think
I'm gonna change at all. But Ido think, like, naturally

Caroline (53:40):
It's funny though because you say that, like, I've
seen a change in you.

Jason (53:43):
Which is what?

Caroline (53:44):
I've seen you, like, consider decisions from a
different perspective.

Jason (53:50):
Like, don't drive so fast on the highway?

Caroline (53:52):
No. You still drive too fast. No. I just think,
like, you have considered I Isee you considering us as a
family already. Like, I see youbeing like, oh, you know, this
will make our lives easier orthis will and maybe it just goes
back to what I was saying aboutyou being all in.

Jason (54:11):
Right.

Caroline (54:11):
Like, so that's a little bit of a change of just
in terms of, like, yourwillingness. I think also your
willingness to I mean, you'vealways been someone who is
willing to, like, look atyourself and experience personal
growth and things like that. ButI think you have an awareness
that be becoming a parent isonly going to highlight the
weaknesses in our own triggersand patterns and things like

(54:38):
that. And I've just seen, like,a willingness for you to talk
about, like, these are the waysthat I don't want this pattern
to show up in our kids or, like,parenting and stuff like that.
So I don't know.
I've seen, like, a like a asoftness and an openness to
change that I maybe didn't seebefore.

Jason (54:54):
Okay. Well, yeah. I know my mom is rooting for the the
softening of She always says me.Yeah, for sure. Which I think
will happen.
Like, I just think it's aninevitability. Like, Totally.
You have a a tiny human that youwant to bring into the world,
and, you know, I may be a 43year old man who has gone
through what I've gone throughand I exist the way that I do,

(55:14):
but I don't want a brand newhuman to like have all of my
baggage that they have to likesort through to start. Like, I
want them to like live their ownlife and figure it all out. So,
so yeah, I I think that'll beinteresting for me, but again, I
just personally, I don't feellike any big shifts are going to
happen till she gets here, but Ido think there will be a shift.
Like, I just don't think I'mgonna be able to exist as the

(55:34):
same person.

Caroline (55:35):
No. That's thing is that's why it's so hard to
answer the question because it'slike everything.

Jason (55:39):
Yeah.

Caroline (55:40):
For me personally, something I'm excited for that
I've sort of noticed happeningalready is like just a more
confidence in my own point ofview and my own intuition. Like,
think I've always kind of feltthat way, but man, just
ingesting all of the likepregnancy content, the momming
content. Where do you stand onthis? How do you feed your kids?

(56:00):
What do you do?
Like, how do you parent them?Like, there's just a million
different ways to go about it,and everyone has such strong
opinions.

Jason (56:06):
Mhmm.

Caroline (56:07):
And I think I have already had to make decisions
where I'm just like, yeah, I'mnot gonna do that or I'm not
gonna worry about that or I carea lot about this or not about
this. And you have to kind oflike stand, like say those
things with your full chestbecause people are gonna have
opinions about it, and you haveto just like be okay with being

(56:29):
judged or misunderstood orwhatever. And I'm actually
looking forward to that. I'vejust like giving less fucks.

Jason (56:36):
Yeah. I mean, I think for a people pleaser by nature, it's
hopefully going to create a lotof that. I'm not a people
pleaser by nature, so maybe I'llshift into a little bit more of
that than I ever have before,but we'll find out. We'll see.

Caroline (56:48):
And also, I do find myself like, the way that we
show up in situations or, like,saying certain things that kind
of I don't know. I I sort of,like, step outside my body, and
I'm, like, thinking about justbeing careful about what I say
because everything that you saywith little kids around is like

(57:09):
you're informing theirworldview. Right? So it's like
it's not like I'm sayinganything bad, but I'm just
saying like, okay. You know, I Iespecially having like a little
girl, it's like, okay.
Commenting on my own appearanceor negative speaking negatively
about myself. It's like thatinforms her self image. And so
it has made me, I guess, justlike step outside of my own

(57:30):
experience and see how I'mbehaving and going like, would I
want my child to model this?

Jason (57:36):
Right.

Caroline (57:37):
And so, yeah. I I think that's a very natural
thing with parenting too. It'slike, it just kinda makes you,
like, more mindful of the waythat you move through the world
so that your kids you're, like,molding them into, like, who you
want them to be.

Jason (57:47):
Yeah.

Caroline (57:48):
Not for a while, of course, but, like, you still
think about these things. Areyou doing hypnotherapy for the
birth? Hard recommend. And theanswer is yes. So hypnobirthing.
And really, it's, like, such aweird word for it. I really just
see it as like mindful birthing.

Jason (58:04):
Yeah. When I hear it,

Caroline (58:05):
I'm like Meditative birth.

Jason (58:06):
I'm like, okay. So I'm gonna have an old timey clock
that I swing in front of youwhile we're doing this.

Caroline (58:10):
So I'm I'm gonna cluck like a chicken while the baby
comes Every

Jason (58:14):
contraction.

Caroline (58:16):
But I am following, like, hypnobirthing. I I have
heard wonderful things about it.But to me, again, it's just like
meditative birthing, which to meseems like a no brainer if you
were gonna go through, like, oneof the potentially most painful
things. Just using mindfulnesstools makes sense to me in
managing fear and managinguncertainty. So a couple of
things I've done, I mean, we wedid a birth prep class, and she

(58:37):
talked not too much abouthypnobirthing, but she just
kinda, like, introduced it as aconcept.
Then I took, like, a little minicourse on it, which was helpful,
and I have been, like,practicing the affirmation. So
I'm not, like, super, like, deepinto it, but I it just made
sense to me that regardless ofeven before I found out about

(58:58):
hypnobirthing, I was planning onusing meditation as, a pain
management technique. So that'swhat I'll be doing.

Jason (59:05):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

Caroline (59:06):
I think in the zone.

Jason (59:07):
I think this is just, like, very much how we exist in
the world too, which is, like,we're not the type of people who
are gonna have a baby and we'relike, let's just see how it all
falls out.

Caroline (59:17):
Yeah. No. When we

Jason (59:18):
get to the hospital, we'll just whatever my body
feels like it needs, I'll giveit and I'll just do that. It's
like, no, we're gonna have like93 tools available at our
disposal to use.

Caroline (59:26):
But Sorry. Go ahead.

Jason (59:27):
And and like, we're we're gonna be prepared in like what
we feel is gonna be best for us.Yeah. And and I think that like,
that's just how we operatethrough life. It's how we
operate through business. It'show we move to Portugal.
It's like all of those things.It's it's the planner in us. And
again, listen, I fullyunderstand that we were
literally having a conversationabout this at lunch yesterday
that like, we do not know howthe birth is going to go. There

(59:47):
are so many curveballs that canhappen, and we can't control any
of that. But what we can controlis like our preparation for what
those curveballs will be.
Yeah. And again, it's like goingback to like the airport in
Croatia. It's like, I'm justgonna prepare that I will get
strip searched today. So I'mgonna wear my good undies.

Caroline (01:00:00):
Yep.

Jason (01:00:01):
I'm gonna make sure I'm smelling nice. Like, I wanna be
ready for this. But like, if itdoesn't happen, that's fine. But
like, I wanna be ready for it.And so I think like
understanding hypnobirthing andand like other things like that.
And like you've created a wholebunch of checklists for me,
which are amazing. In the nextlike two weeks, I'm starting to
go on my like be a prepared dadjourney for labor. And like I'm
gonna watch birth vlogs. I havenot watched a single one of

(01:00:22):
those. Like I wanna start tolike, you know, assimilate some
of this information into myawareness.

Yeah. And you have a foundation because we took the
class together.

Jason (01:00:30):
Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, but now for me is the time
to like, okay, great. Like, Iwanna like be armed with a bunch
of things that I've seen andwe've had plenty of
conversations. We will have morefor the next couple of weeks of
how I can best support and,like, things that I, you know

Yeah. I'm super direct. I'm like, here's here's
what to say to me. Here's whatnot to say to me.

Jason (01:00:46):
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

But I think you have to speak up for those things.
Now, what's interesting aboutyou saying that is and I totally
agree with you. Like, ourapproach has been, like, let's
educate ourselves. Let's beinformed. Let's like know.
And also, I just am like, I lovelearning stuff, so I love
learning about birth. I lovelearning about, like, the
physiology of it, the mental ofit, whatever. But I will say,
going back to what what hassurprised me is I thought I
would be like a color codednotes girl, like a full deep

(01:01:12):
dive girl, read all the booksgirl. I haven't gotten through a
single freaking book. Haven'tgotten through a single book.

Jason (01:01:18):
Yeah. But I think I I think as I just clicked open
your little One Hub Notionorganizer, like, while you may
not have a color coded bindersystem, this is a this is a
color coded binder system.

No. Yeah. It's all relative. I know what you're
saying. But I'm I'm just saying,like, I have friends who, like,
they have, like, Google Docsthat are 12 pages long.
And I surprised myself with thefact that, like, I definitely
came to this point in whether itwas researching breastfeeding or
researching the, you know, birthor whether it was just
researching newborn care and allthese things. I definitely

(01:01:51):
reached this point where I waslike, oh, I'm tilting into like
information overload.

Jason (01:01:55):
Yeah, of course.

And in 2025, it can become very easy to just like
try to consume everything. Andthen you just have this like
noise in your head, and I thinkit can cause more anxiety. So I
have found that I I have thisthreshold where I start to feel
prepared, and then there's this,like, line where it start to
feel, like, over prepared andoverloaded. And then I just that

(01:02:18):
that's when I put down the bookor I put down the course, and I
just go, and the rest can justfall where it falls. And also, I
remind myself that you don'tit's not some test where you,
like, have to cram and then getall the answers right at the
moment.
Like, the baby's here or thebirth is here, and, like, yes,
you wanna be prepared, but,like, you can problem solve in
the moment as well.

Jason (01:02:39):
For sure. And, like, again, you may try to problem
solve for a whole bunch ofthings that don't actually
happen the way that you thinkthey're gonna

Yeah.

Jason (01:02:46):
Right? And so it's like, it's good to, I think, be
prepared, but I think it's alsogood to just like be open to the
fact that like, again, you mightget the strip search, you might
not. We'll find out.

Exactly.

Jason (01:02:54):
Alright. Two more questions here.

What will work slash childcare look like for you?
Great question. And we have anidea about what it'll look like,
but we are leaving it open tohow it will feel once she's
here. But the way that we haveplanned it is basically like
three full months of both of usoff of work. Of course, Jason
already told you, like, Sara isgonna be basically managing the

(01:03:17):
day to day.
He's gonna be the point ofcontact, so there's gonna be a
little bit of that.

Jason (01:03:21):
Yeah. Like, I I envision that I will probably work. I
don't think it'll be an hour aday, maybe a half hour a day.

Yeah. Mostly Checking in on stuff.

Jason (01:03:29):
Mostly just from the standpoint of like, it's also
something I want to do. It wouldbe it would be different if it
was like

Kinda like a hobby.

Jason (01:03:34):
Yeah. It's like, I work at a nine to five job. I'm like,
I can't wait to take threemonths off. Like, I don't love
showing up and doing this orwhatever. It's like, I I love
the things that we build.
And so, like, I want to check-inon them. But I also don't want
to at all be the, I gotta go dowork right now. It's two weeks
after the baby's born and, like,I'm taking time away from our
new family unit. Totally.Anyway, sorry.

Yeah. And I think we've also talked about, like, I
think very important in thoseearly weeks of, being both fully
present in the learning her andlearning, like, our new way of
life, but also being vocal witheach other about I just need
some alone time. So it's likeand if work is what you wanna do
with your alone time, thenthat's totally your prerogative.

(01:04:14):
If what I wanna do during myalone time is, like, take a
shower and,

Jason (01:04:17):
like Well, and and that watch

a movie, then that's fine too.

Jason (01:04:20):
We we obviously don't know exactly how the post
party's gonna go. That's howwe've been We've

on a post party.

Jason (01:04:25):
Instead of post partum, which just kinda sounds like a
little bit depressing. Like,it's the post party.

It's the post party.

Jason (01:04:29):
It's not gonna feel good, but Aw. But like, I know that I
am going to I'm gonna doeverything in our household for,
let's call it at a minimum threeweeks. And so I'm I'm okay with
that. Like, it's totally finethat I I'm happy to support you
in that way. You've done so muchfor nine months.
The least I can do is for threeweeks, like pick up all the
slack. But I think in that, it'salso, you know, realizing too,

(01:04:53):
like, great. So, you know, whatis it that you need and that's
going to change every singleweek, right? Like the first week
we've already talked about like,you know, we again, we don't
know exactly how it's gonna go,but you're probably gonna stay
in our bed in our bedroom Yep.The entire time.
And so it's like, great. Like,how can I not make that a
miserable experience for you?That's why we've been calling
the post party. So it's beenlike, okay, like, what's a fun

(01:05:14):
thing I could do every daythat's like more than just the
chores and like changing all thediapers, but it's like

Something to look forward

Jason (01:05:19):
to. Yeah. Something fun that's like, okay, I can have
Chatchippity help me create aFamily Feud style game for
disaster movie questions. Yeah.You know?
And it's like something stupidlike that, but it is also just
like a moment of joy every dayto look forward to. And so it's
like, I think the beginning of,you know, our new family unit
will look like that. I thinkgetting back to the question of

(01:05:39):
work and childcare, so much ofthis is like, we have a plan
now, but also we've loosely beentalking about like, you know,
you don't know how you're gonnafeel as a mom.

Like Well, totally.

Jason (01:05:49):
Maybe you're not gonna wanna do a lot of work Totally.

In the

Jason (01:05:52):
worst early times.

Right. Going back to what has surprised me is like,
especially this past month,stepping away from business
stuff and going fully intofocusing on mom mode, I have
enjoyed the focus of just beingable to focus on her and like,
you know, and so I don't know.Our roles might shift a little
bit and like maybe I do wannatake off a little bit more time

(01:06:13):
before I come back. Knowingthat, like, I'm I I don't
foresee myself being someone whois not going to want to do any
work

Jason (01:06:22):
Right.

At all. But I don't

Jason (01:06:25):
know. Yeah.

Really don't know how I'm gonna feel. And so, again,
our plan is three monthstogether, definitely, like, off.
And then when November, Decemberrolls around, like, easing back
in kind of transition. And thenJanuary is like, okay, back to
work. But knowing that maybethat's only Jason back to work.
Maybe that's yeah.

Jason (01:06:45):
So

but we as far as childcare goes, we are planning
to transition after our nightnurse into someone who comes,
like a nanny, the day, just tohelp out so that we can work and
have that option.

Jason (01:06:59):
Yeah. And again, like that boils down to we've been
waiting such a long time to dothis so that we have the
financial means to do that, sothat it creates time and space
for us to be able to have stillour own lives and our own
passions and desires while alsohaving help to make sure that
our baby is getting as muchsupport as they can possibly

(01:07:22):
get. So it's like, we're notjust two tired parents. And
again, I'm not saying this is abad thing that people do. I'm
just saying we have the abilityto do it.
So we're looking forward to thatwhere we do have a little bit
more freedom and space to investin ourselves as well as kind of
like our family unit.

Yeah. And then at some point transitioning to like,
what they call here, creche, islike preschool, just to get some
of that.

Jason (01:07:43):
And that's at like three?

You can do it before three.

Jason (01:07:47):
Oh, okay. Cool.

Yeah.

Jason (01:07:48):
Can't wait them can't wait for them to get a part time
job before three, you know?Okay. Cool. So that's that. And
then the final question here iswhat will be the deal with baby
citizenship?

Oh, loaded questions.

Jason (01:07:59):
Which is very tricky. At the moment, if we can get the
baby out before September

What's really wild is they basically are in the
process of changing the lawshere. So this whole time since
we've moved here in late twentytwenty two, the rule has been
that basically if you're if youas the parents have been here at
least a year, I think was thethreshold. Even if you're not

(01:08:24):
Portuguese citizens, if you havethe baby here and you've been
here a year, they will beautomatically dual citizens. So
like they will get Portuguesecitizenship. They would be also
US citizens, so they'll they'llbe dual citizens.
That has always been the plan.Now, funny enough, we're
pregnant, second trimester. Theydecide to introduce this new law
change before the summer. Ithink this was like back in

(01:08:46):
maybe June or May. Introduce itinto like parliament to adjust
the

Jason (01:08:54):
Requirements, essentially.

Requirements to where you would have to be here for

Jason (01:08:59):
It's like five years or seven years to

begin. Three years.

Jason (01:09:01):
It's all up in the air. Like, it's basically what the
proposal was is the getting ridof the one year thing

Yeah. Exactly. Essentially. So, basically, then
our baby wouldn't beautomatically a Portuguese
citizen. And so we were kind oflike, oh, no.
That really sucks that we, like,kind of just the timing happened
to work out to where this lawchanged. Did a little bit more
digging and realized, again,we're we're new here, so we're
not super well versed on thecivics of Portugal, which we're

(01:09:28):
gonna have to be because that'sanother thing they added. It's
like you have to be fully wellversed on how the government
works and everything. Butanyway, similar to The US in the
sense that they can't justintroduce a law and then it's
law. Right.
They have to it goes to, like,parliament. They argue. The
different parties, like, arguefor different, you know, clauses

(01:09:50):
and things like that. And thenit has to, like, pass by a vote
and yada yada yada. And so thethe good news is that it's
August right now.
So the, I guess, what you wouldcall Congress is like the most
US equivalent is out kind of forsummer.

Jason (01:10:04):
Holiday. Yep.

And so it hasn't gone into law yet.

Jason (01:10:08):
Yeah. I think from last I heard, it was basically like
September 10 or something likethat was like the earliest.

And that's when they start arguments.

Jason (01:10:14):
And it's like a two week period that it's open for. So we
may get very lucky and that ifour baby is born before that

Yeah.

Jason (01:10:21):
We but again, I don't know when we do the paperwork
for it either.

That first week we do the paperwork.

Jason (01:10:26):
Yeah. It's it's a very like It's

gonna be down to the wire.

Jason (01:10:28):
It's super, super interesting.

Best case scenario is that they will accept her under
the old kind of regime, and shewill get a Portuguese passport,
and so she will have and she'llget a US passport, so she'll be
a dual citizen.

Jason (01:10:43):
Yeah. So, yeah. I don't we we have this written down in
a doc somewhere. I don'tremember it exactly because I
don't need to remember it atthis very moment. But
essentially, it's like, we dothe Portuguese kind of like
thing.
We go to like whatever thegovernment office is for that
with her, get that set up, andthen we almost immediately do
the US embassy one as Exactly.And so she, you know, ends up
with both passports, then likewe can start gallivanting around

(01:11:05):
Mhmm. You know, right afterthat, hitting all the hotspots,
you know?

Yep. She's on

Jason (01:11:08):
the That's how

it works.

Jason (01:11:10):
But, yeah. Alright. I think that's all the questions.
I think that's all the things.

Thanks for your interest in our child.

Jason (01:11:16):
Maybe another five weeks before we have a podcast
episode. So if you listen thisfar in, I hope you enjoyed it. I
did actually get a couplemessages from different people
who've said they've startedgoing back and listening to,
like, episodes years ago just tobecause they they missed out on
the podcast. I was like, oh,that's so sweet. You know, I
think we we will definitely onlybe doing one episode, two, maybe
three episodes in the nextcouple months, maybe.

Yeah. Just to give you an update on how this huge life
transition is going. And we'revery excited to meet her and
just to have her be real.

Jason (01:11:47):
Yeah.

She's just like a little thought right now. Mean
Exactly. She's more than athought based on her

Jason (01:11:52):
Karate role kicks.

Karate kicks.

Jason (01:11:54):
Yeah.

For me right now. But this has already been such a
wild journey different than whatI expected. And so I can only
imagine from here on out, it'sgonna all be different than what
we expected.

Jason (01:12:05):
For sure. Yeah. It's gonna be interesting. Alright.
Well, let's everybody put putyour, like, good vibes out there
that our baby won't be balduntil she's two we were both
bald

until two. We were both bald until two.

Jason (01:12:17):
I have If that's the one thing we could request, that
would

be great. Yeah. I I it's funny because, like, I
never thought I'd be like a ahair bow mom.

Jason (01:12:23):
Yeah.

But I just I see these little headbands with bows on
them, and I can't help itbecause I'm like Oh. That baby's
gonna be bald. And also, all ofher clothes are very gender
neutral. And so I'm like, I justI just want people to be like,
oh, is she a boy or a girl?

Jason (01:12:37):
Just wearing headbands. Yeah. Alright. Well, thanks for
all the questions, everybody. Weappreciate all the support.
And if you, you know, wanna getan update on the baby, just
stick around to the podcast,don't unsubscribe anytime soon,
and we'll have an episode maybein another five weeks or so.
We'll see.

We'll see.

Jason (01:12:54):
Alrighty, that's it.

Bye.

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