Burnout Isn’t Inevitable: Stop Pushing Through with Dr. Hayley D Quinn

Episode Transcript
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Dr Nat Green (00:01):
Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nat Green, and I'm so excited tohave you join me as we discuss
what it means to navigate yourway through post-traumatic
growth and not just survive, butto thrive after trauma.

(00:23):
Through our podcast, we willexplore ways for you to create a
life filled with greaterpurpose, self-awareness, and a
deep inner peace.
Through integrating the manyyears of knowledge and
professional experience, as wellas the wisdom of those who have
experienced trauma firsthand.

(00:44):
We'll combine psychologyaccelerated approaches.
Coaching and personal experienceto assist you, to learn, to grow
and to thrive.
I hope to empower you to createdeeper awareness and
understanding and strongerconnections with yourself and
with others, whilst also pavingthe way for those who have

(01:08):
experienced trauma and adversityto reduce their suffering and
become the very best versions ofthemselves.
In order to thrive.
Thank you so much for joining meon today's episode.
Hi, and welcome back to GrowingTall Poppies, Thrive After
Trauma.

(01:28):
I'm your host, Dr.
Nat Green, and I am reallyexcited and grateful today to
bring you our next guest.
And it's my absolute pleasureand privilege to welcome back my
dear friend Dr.
Hayley D Quinn.
We actually had the pleasure ofchatting to Hayley in episode
seven, so please feel free to goback and refresh your memory

(01:52):
'cause it was full of wisdom Dr.
Hayley d Quinn is a mindset andwellbeing coach.
Speaker, author and formerclinical psychologist.
She's host of the popularWelcome to Self Podcast and past
president of Compassionate MindAustralia.
Dr.
Hayley is passionate aboutburnout, prevention, and helping

(02:16):
women non-binary and genderdiverse people transform their
relationships with themselvesand achieve their goals while
prioritizing sustainablepractices, self-care and
compassion.
She promotes a new model ofsustainable success, one where
personal wellbeing is no longersacrificed.

(02:37):
So welcome, Dr.
Hayley.
It's so great to have you hereagain.

Dr Hayley D Quinn (02:41):
Hi, Nat It's so lovely to be back.

Very excited that you agreed to come back on, and
I know we were just having aquick chat.
I know so much has changed foryou since we last caught up, and
you've come such a long way.
So I'd love for you to sharesome of your news and adventures
with us.

Thank you.
Yeah, so I think I was, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but I
think I was still registered asa psychologist when we first
were chatted back in episodeseven.
So last November, almost 12months ago now, I decided to
step away from my psychologyregistration and I'd been
running two businesses doing myclinical supervision and

(03:28):
training.
As a psychologist and then doingcoaching, speaking and writing
in my other business.
So November last year, I chosenot to renew my psychology
registration, which was a bigdecision.

Yeah.

And go all in on my coaching, speaking,
writing business as well.
And then January of this year, Istarted writing a book, which
originally was a book just forbusiness women.
And then.
I just kept getting this booktitle.
It would not leave me alone.
And when I told people thetitle, I spoke to three people

(04:01):
in my life and they all said, ohmy gosh, it's giving me
goosebumps.
So I was like, okay, wellobviously this is the book I
need to write and it's now gonnabe open for pre-orders next
week.

Oh, I'm so excited.
I've watched this.
I've sat in the background andwatched this come to life.
So I am absolutely thrilled thatwe get to.
Yeah, talk about it today and weall get to see the real thing
very soon.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So as you know for everyonewho's listening, the guests that

(04:33):
I have on share their trauma oradversity story and how they've
navigated their experience.
And I know back in episode sevenwhen we last caught up, you
spoke really openly about thedomestic violence relationship.
You'd experienced and thechallenges you faced around
leaving that.

(04:53):
And you also touched on someother issues that had
contributed to your journey tofinding yourself.
And I know that where you're atnow, you're definitely more
ready to share deeper parts.
So I'd love if you could tell usa little bit more about.
What you wanna share with yourstory today?

Yeah, so I guess, you know, my passion from
burnout prevention has reallycome from my own experience of a
significant burnout.
That was about 10 years ago now,and I think there's been
multiple things that led tothat.
I talk briefly, I kind of do abit about me in my book, but.
The book is not about me.
The book is about the reader ofthe book, but I do share some of

(05:34):
my story, including mentalhealth challenges that I had
from a young age.
Obviously leaving the uk, movingto Australia, finding out that I
was neurodivergent three yearsago, age 52.
And the challenges that, that onreflection.
I can see posed for me in termsof misreading signs and signals

(05:57):
in relationships and things, andtrying to fit myself into a
system and a world that reallywasn't designed for me.
Mm.
And as, as I would've spokenabout back in the other episode,
I became a single parent.
And I really thought that I wastaking good care of myself and
on, in many ways, I was.

Hmm.

But there's only so much you can do.
Like I was raising a son bymyself.
I, I was a complete solo parent.
There was no co-parenting and Imade the choice to go to
university having dropped out ofschool younger in life.
Mm.
So there was lots of challengesaround that and lots of imposter
syndrome that I was dealingwith.

(06:39):
But did very well at universityand went on to do a PhD.
During that time, I was alsosometimes working up to three
jobs to support me and my son.
Wow.
So on reflection, I was, I wasrecovering from trauma.
I was single parenting, I wasstudying, I was working, and I
was a neurodivergent womanliving in a neurotypical world,

(07:00):
but I didn't know I was aneurodivergent woman.
Mm-hmm.
So, of course I burnt out.

Yes.
It's really no wonder when you,know all the stuff.
In hindsight, it's the perfectrecipe for burnout, isn't it
really knowing what we know now.

Absolutely, and I guess the unfortunate
thing for me was there was lotsof signs and I didn't pay
attention to them, and when Idid and I knew I needed help.
I found that really hard at thetime to ask for help, so I just
kept pushing through.
And I think this is reallycommon for people is we just

(07:35):
think, well, you know, I'mtraining to be a psychologist,
or I'm, I'm now a psychologist.
'Cause my, my burnout happened afew years into being a
psychologist.
So a lot of this, you know, I'ma psychologist, I should know
how to manage this.

Yes.
What

will this mean if I tell somebody I'm not
coping well?
So lots of shame.
Which just compounds the problemand increases the stress, right?
Of course.
But then there was also thispart for me of the relationship
I had with myself, which wasn'tgood.
So I didn't necessarily think Ideserved to have the help that I
needed, and that was a practicein itself.

(08:12):
So a lot of what I talk about inthe book, the book's called"From
Self Neglect to Self-Compassion,A Compassionate Guide to
Creating A Thriving Life", andit really is based on my
clinical knowledge, my livedexperience.
And I have walked the path thatI take people through in the
book, and it really does make adifference when we can change
the relationship with ourselves.

(08:34):
It makes a difference toeverything that we do, the
decisions we make, thewillingness of receiving help
from other people, all thosethings.
Yeah.
So that was, that was a realjourney for me and, and a lot of
practice to get to a placewhere.
I did change the relationshipwith myself.
I have a very compassionaterelationship with myself, and

(08:55):
I've designed my life in a waythat works for me as a
neurodivergent woman, but alsoworks for me in terms of my
values alignment and what'smeaningful for me, but also what
brings joy and excitement andhappiness into my life as well.

What a wonderful way to live.
And you know, there's a fewthings I'd love to unpack in
what you just said.
I know that.
You know, I've shared some of mystory as I've talked through on
the podcast on various episodes,and one of the things that a lot
of the wonderful guests that I'mgetting on lately are so

(09:31):
generously doing is sharing.
From a place of their livedexperience being of huge value.
So don't get me wrong, we're notsaying that you have to have
been through something terribleto be able to do your job, but
it definitely brings that.
Depth to our work, doesn't it,that we didn't realize would add

(09:58):
that other layer until weexperienced it?
Would you agree with

that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Look, I think there, there's alot to be said for the the
learned knowledge.
I think is important.
Mm-hmm.
I don't think it can be one orthe other.
I think if we only have learnedknowledge and not the lived
experience, and that's not tosay we have to have exactly the
experience somebody else hashad, but if we have, you know,

(10:22):
if we've sailed through life,although I don't think I've ever
met anybody that really has justsail through life.
So, but if we don't have the,the learned knowledge and the
lived experience, if we've onlygot lived experience and We've
got no learned knowledge.
I think that can be dangerous.
Yes.
Agreed.
Um, so certainly now I've lefta, a kind of governed profession

(10:43):
like psychology and I've movedinto what, what I sometimes call
the wild, wild west of coaching.

It can feel like that can't it at times.

There's some amazing, um, people in the
coaching space who are reallycredible and have got really
good experience and really goodlearned knowledge.
And unfortunately, there'speople there who have lived
experience and are working withpeople in a way that perhaps
isn't.
The safest way to be workingwith people.

Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, and I think havingthat background with being so
ethical as a registered healthpractitioner for so long and
your own lived experiencewithout the guilt and the shame
for starting to be able to sharethat must be very different from

(11:35):
where you were at a year agowith such regulation.

Yeah, absolutely.
And I think you know thatthere's new regulations again
within the, the profession ofpsychology around
self-disclosure.
And I know that as apsychologist, and I think we
need to be very mindful aboutwhat we're disclosing, and
certainly sessions when peopleare working as a psychologist or
counselor or whatever they'redoing.

(11:59):
Self-disclosure needs to be inservice of the client's
wellbeing and what's in the bestinterest of your client always.
But the new regulations around,you know.
Basically you shouldn't beself-disclosing at all.
I think it's really sad becauseI think it's taking the human
out of the process.
And I know there's been timesthat I had shared things because

(12:20):
I knew they would be helpful formy client and they absolutely
were.
And the client let me know thatthey really were so.
I guess there's a sense offreedom now that I'm not working
in you know, under thatregistration, that I can be more
open and free about what I shareabout my story.
And, you know, I, I love BreneBrown always says, share from

(12:44):
the scar, not the wound.
And I'm a big believer in that Idon't share stuff that's
necessarily happening in themoment.
If I had something that wascausing me distress or very
stressful, I probably wouldn'tbe sharing that at that time.
Yeah.
But a lot of the stuff that'shappened in my life from
childhood right through, I'vedone a lot of therapy, I've done

(13:06):
a lot of work on myself, I'vehealed that.
I've got to a place where.
I am comfortable sharing thethings I'm comfortable sharing
and I'm not gonna get alldistressed.
And it then it kind of becomesabout me needing to share my
story with people.

Mm.
But it,

what it does is it allows me to share things
that people can perhaps seethemselves in, and it can
normalize and validate for otherpeople that actually being a
human is really hard.
Mm, like we suffer.
It is part of our condition as ahuman being, and I think when we

(13:44):
know we're not alone in stuff,it can then make it easier for
people to kind of reach out andget the support that they might
need.

Yes, most definitely.
Because we know that healingfrom any sort of trauma, doing
any recovery in that area reallyis around connecting and having
relationships.
Being part of something biggerthan ourselves.
'cause we can't do this on ourown, can we?

Absolutely.

Yeah.
So tell me then, if this isokay, you've been, you know,
only three years ago recognizedthat you're a neuro divergent
woman.
So tell me a bit about that andhow that's been for you.

Yeah.
So I, um, I guess in some waysit came as a shock and in other
ways not at all.
Like I, I have known my wholelife that something was
different.
Mm-hmm.
I used to, I literally used tothink I'd been dropped off on
the wrong planet and then I gotmy assessment and I was like,
oh, I was dropped off on thewrong planet.

(14:53):
That makes so much more sense.
That that was a process that wasreally multifaceted and I, I'm a
big believer in it and I say ita lot, you know, feelings are
not mutually exclusive.
No.
And I felt a lot of relief and Ialso felt a lot of grief and
sadness as well.
I.
And then I had periods offeeling angry and then times

(15:14):
where I was like, oh my gosh, ifI'd have known this as a child,
maybe some of the circumstancesI ended up in my life I wouldn't
have done.
But then I also thought, do youknow what I, I was born in the
seventies maybe beingidentified., I've been, I, um,
identified autistic with ADHDmaybe in the seventies and
eighties.
That wouldn't have been greatfor me.
No.

(15:34):
The kind of, you know,treatments that were being
offered.

Yeah,

we're actually harmful.
So in some ways it's probablybetter.
I wasn't identified back then.
In some ways, it would've beenreally great to understand that
there was nothing wrong with me.

Yeah, yeah.

I just have a different type of brain and I
think differently, and I operatedifferently.
What I found.
Was when I, on reflection, Iwould look and I've always been
somebody that has like, youknow, 12 alarms a day in my
phone.
Gosh.
And I always used, I always usedto wonder like, God, why do I
have to set these alarms all thetime?

(16:18):
Then I got diagnosed with A DHD,and I'm like, well, of course I
have to set alarms all the timebecause I completely lose track
of time and I got hyperfocusedon something.
Mm.
You know, being an autisticwoman, I can struggle sometimes
to recognize that I'm thirsty orI'm hungry.

Mm-hmm.

So I'll set alarms in my phone to remind me
to eat.

Wow.

And I, I realized, I've actually set up
all these systems for myself.
I.
So I can live in a neurotypicalworld, but I didn't realize why
I was doing them.
And now I do obviously realize,hmm.
But what it means now is I canrefine these systems that I have
and I can make sure they arereally suitable for me and that

(17:02):
they're helpful, not harmful.
And I had developed thiscompassionate relationship with
myself.
I was really fortunate that Istarted my training in
compassion focused therapy backin, I think, 2013.

Mm.
And

I just knew it was, I really resonated with
the framework.
And I did a lot of training.
I was fortunate enough to bementored and trained by Paul
Gilbert, the founder ofCompassion Focused Therapy, and
I went on to train other peoplein compassion focused therapy.
So I was really embodying thisand really living this, and then

(17:37):
when I had my diagnosis, it, itjust upleveled my
self-compassion again.
You know, it was like, okay,well this is just more reason
for me to recognize what's goingon for myself, not shame myself
or be critical about why I dothe things I do.
So it's, it's been interesting.

(17:57):
I, and I think I'm still gettingto know myself through that
lens.
Through that lens, and I thinkalways will.
'cause we're always changing andgrowing, right?
I'm, I'm not gonna be the samewoman I am at 55.
At 65 or 75 or 85.
So yeah, it's, I think it'sabout being curious about

(18:18):
yourself and you know,continually kind of keeping in
touch with you and.
Understanding who you are andwhat you like and what works for
you,

and what a brilliant blend to have in your
background.
That compassion andself-compassion.
So that was another lens thatyou could bring to that.
Beautiful.
Yes, because many people wouldget that diagnosis that they
probably late in life alreadysuspected, but it might have

(18:48):
been a lot harder to accept thansomeone who had this.
Beautiful background incompassion.

Yeah, because I think there, there is still a
lot of stigma, particularlyaround autism, more so than
ADHD.
And you know, some of it hasbeen challenging.
And like I said, there was, Ifound a lot of grief was showing
up as well in how different mylife could have been, perhaps if
I'd have known myselfdifferently and if people around

(19:15):
me had known me differently andunderstood me differently.
So I think it's.
It.
I think it's one of the biggestgifts I've given myself.
I'm, I'm absolutely reallypleased that I went through that
assessment process and Iacknowledged my own privilege in
that because it's not an easyprocess to access and it can be
expensive, but for me, that wasabsolutely something I would do

(19:38):
10 times over again because Ithink knowing ourselves is one
of the greatest gifts we couldever give ourselves.

Mm-hmm.
Definitely.
So.
With that, knowing yourself andalso then making that decision
to break away from being apsychologist.
What other huge things havehappened in that past year?

Gosh, well, writing the book, yes.
That's been a pretty, pretty bigthing.
I think just really, um, I, Iwas always already running my
coaching business, but reallyfocusing on that differently.
Has been interesting.
I've been learning a lot more.
At one point it felt like I'dgone back to university even

(20:25):
though I had the learning aboutmarketing and different things
in business.
And I think also I'd done a lotof identity work before giving
up my registration.
But what I realized after, so Ifelt comfortable that I could
let go of the psychology, thepsychologist label.

(20:46):
Yes.
Um, but I think that continuedto be a process for me of what
does that mean?
And I still use the term formerclinical psychologist.

Yes.

Because.
I worked really, really hard forthat, and I think it also gives
information to whoever's comingacross my work to see that I'm
not just a coach in a sea of amillion coaches.
Mm-hmm.
I've got this crediblebackground that adds to what I
offer as well, but I questionedfor a while, am I hanging onto

(21:22):
it?
Because I want to hang on tothe, I'm a psychologist still,
so that was an interesting kindof process.
And then just per, just on apersonal level, I, I moved.
Um, we are currently building,my husband and I have a building
company and we're currentlybuilding our house.
We sold in Brisbane and we'recurrently building again, but I
live up, up at the coast at themoment.

(21:43):
So that's been really lovely.
We've spent a lot of time uphere, but I've been living up
here permanently, so that's beena change.
And I guess that has also.
Helped me focus on a differentway of wanting to take care of
my health.
As well.
So that's been quiteinteresting.
Moving away from the city to thecoast makes me kind of want to

(22:07):
be outside and, you know,walking on the beach or just
being out in the fresh air, thatis an area for me that I
struggle with, with consistency,which I think is part of my
ADHD.

Yes, I understand that.
Well and truly.

But it's, it's that take yourself out of
an environment and put yourselfsomewhere new and then check in
with.
How you feel and what you likeand what you don't like.
So that's been reallyinteresting.
But I'd say the main thingreally has been the, the book
writing.

Mm.
And you know, where better toget inspiration than by the
beach.
Mm.
Out of the city, just to reallyset a whole new scene.
Yeah.
And I know one of the thingsI've loved about you in the time
since I've known you is that youreally.
Walk your walk your walk andtalk your talk.

(22:56):
And you, the anti burnout coachhave so many things in place
mm-hmm.
To honor your boundaries andreally live and breathe what you
do.
So tell us a bit more about whatyou've managed to do in your
burnout recovery that you insiston doing daily.
Now,

the, the absolute key thing for me is
checking in with myself everyday.
Mm.
And, um, I, I just recentlystarted over on Instagram, a
check in daily with Dr.
Hayley.

I'm enjoying that.
I love listening to that everyday.
Well, what's Dr.
Hayley up to?

Well, the, the name came to me and I'm
like, is that like, totally likecheesy, but I love it.

Yes.
But I love it.
It's so cool.
Check in daily with Dr.
Hayley.
What's she doing today?

Yeah, so that for me is really to help people
get into the practice ofchecking in with themselves.
For me, it starts first thing inthe morning when I wake up, it's
like, oh, good morning, darling.
How did you sleep?
And then thinking about whathave I got on?
What do I need so that I'mresourced and is that something
I can provide for myself?

(24:06):
Or is that something I need toreach out and ask somebody else
to help me with?
But then also checking inthroughout the day at different
times, just like, how am Ifeeling?
What do I need?
And then honoring that as best Ican.
Mm.
So that I think is the, theabsolute fundamental thing for
me is just check in.

(24:26):
Then there are things like notover committing in my diary.
Making sure things aren't, youknow, I've not got too many
things, not doing back to backmeetings, things like that.

So tell me, if someone were to ring and say,
oh, could just, could I squeezeyou in here?
Or could you do that?
What would happen?
How would you handle that?
Now that the old Hayley, who wasthe psychologist that was back
to back when she was burnt out,would've done?

Yeah.
So old Hayley would've lookedat, how on earth could I squeeze
you in?
I need to do that.
I need to make sure you're in mydiary and take care of you.
I would look at my diary and Iwould see if there was actually
space and if there wasn't, Iwould respond and say, I don't
have anything today, but theseare the times I've got, and I

(25:16):
would send an email.

Perfect.
So really setting boundaries tostart with.
Holding boundaries and honoringyou and your energy levels.

Absolutely.
So I, I color code my diary.
I think the wonderful thingabout these smartphones is we,
we can really use them well forour brains, particularly for
neuro divergent.
And I color code differentappointments in my diary and I
have anything that's classed forme as self-care is yellow.
And I look at the start of everyweek how much yellow I've got in

(25:52):
my diary.
And if there is not a lot ofyellow in my diary, I make sure
I put it in.

I'm just sitting here going, oh, don't look at my
diary.
I need to do a check-in dailywith Dr.
Hayley myself.
I love that.
What a, what a great way toorganize things so that you can
look at it very quickly.
Know

and that's the thing for me is a lot of the
stuff I try and do for myselfand I, and when I'm working with
clients is how do we reduce thecognitive load?
Because having to decipher, sayyou had say five things in your
diary, having to decipher, isthis work, is this something for
the kids?
Is this self-care?
What is this?

(26:39):
Takes time and energy.
Mm-hmm.
If work was green and thechildren stuff was blue and
self-care is yellow, you don'tneed to do that part because you
just need to look visually andsee it.
So for me it's about how do I.
Make things easier, that can bemade easier.
And you know, I, I focus on goodnutrition.

(27:03):
I, I actually have somebody whocomes and cooks my meals and I,
we have love it.
Well, cooking.
I know somebody said to me, isthat not just for celebrities?
And I'm like, well, no.
It's about thinking about whatcould I outsource because I had
got a little while ago to aplace where I was.
Not planning and organizing myfood well.

(27:26):
So I would grab something and Ivery quickly realized that I was
either skipping some meals or Ijust wasn't eating.
I was just grabbing what wasavailable.

Mm.

And I know for me that I don't, if I don't
nourish my body well, I really,for everybody,

yeah, your

brain can't function as well as it might,
and your body doesn't work aswell.
So that was one of the thingsthat I chose to outsource.
So now all my meals are planned,like I still do the planning and
choose what I wanna have, butuh, it's then cooked and it's
ready.
Um, beautiful.
And I find that really helpful.

(28:03):
Things like making sure I've gotglasses of water popped around
because I can be terrible forjust taking a glass of water for
a walk'cause my husband says.
Rather than drink, take it for awalk around the house, put it
down somewhere else.
Not ideal.
No.
But making sure things like thatare visual for me, because as an
ADHD'er like object permanence,right?

(28:24):
Mm-hmm.
If there's not a glass of waterin sight.
I'll forget water exists andwon't drink it.
Exactly.

Oh, so when you look at all these things you've
got in place now, and I'm surewe've only scratched the surface
with prompts around like that,with outsourcing that with color
coding, your diary notoverbooking yourself when you
think about where you are nowversus.

(28:52):
In the midst of that dreadful,burnt out period of your life,
tell us a little bit more aboutwhat life was like then in that
burnt out, exhausted phase,because it's not just about
physical exhaustion, is it?

No, not at all.
I mean, I, I was mentally,physically, spiritually, just
completely depleted.
And when you say what was lifelike, I'm almost like, gosh, it,
it is almost like it waslifeless.
Mm-hmm.
Know it was, um, it was a reallyhard time actually.

Yeah.

And I think we can forget how hard things
are, but when we really reflectback.
I was disconnected from not onlymyself, but my husband, my
friends, um, my son to a degree,like my son and I were single
parent and child for 13 years.
We've got a really closerelationship.

Yeah.

But there would be things there that I
was, I was just finding itreally hard to be engaged in
anything.
I mean, there was times I, Icould barely get off the couch,
like if I got outta bed andcould make it to sitting on the
couch watching a movie or doingsomething that was.
It was like a good day.
Some days like I'd go to try andput something in the washing
machine and I'd feel likecompletely out of breath and

(30:08):
like, I'd run a marathon.
It was ridiculous.
When I think about it, um, mybody was so depleted that I just
really had to stop most things.
I was not socializing.
Um, it had a really significantimpact on, you know, finances.
My health, my overall wellbeing,my relationships, the lot.

(30:30):
And this is why I'm so, sopassionate about burnout,
prevention.
'cause if we can stop peoplegetting to the point of burnout,
like preventing burnout willtake you less time, less energy
and cost you less money thenrecovery from burnout ever will.

Absolutely

that, that cost me a lot of money in like,
figuring out my health.
Mm-hmm.
I lost lots of income.
Um, you know, the, all thethings that you need to do to
get to a place where you are.
Feeling okay again, is, is canbe a massive journey and can
take weeks, months, even years.

(31:08):
And there's research out showingthat, you know, even after four
years, you can still see kind ofthe remnants of burnout from
people.
So I don't want that foranybody.
That's, that's why I'm sopassionate about burnout
prevention.
Mm-hmm.
And if we can get to knowourselves and really set up life
in a way that works for us, thenwe've got a much better chance

(31:30):
of never being in burnout.

And I think I really, I'm very grateful that
you shared that because so manyof the people that listen to our
podcast often message and sharethat they're exhausted, they're
burnt out, but they've justgotta keep going, keep going,
keep pushing.
And what we think is if we justdo that, we'll get better.

(31:55):
We'll just push through it andwe'll be fine.
But what we know, and I'm arecovering, burnt out.
Person as well, workaholic thatsometimes we have to completely
stop because it's our nervoussystem that's fried.
It's not just absolutely, weneed a little bit of a rest and
we sleep a bit more.
It's not that

at all.
You, you cannot work yourselfout of burnout.
You cannot push yourself out ofburnout, like it's the
antithesis of what you need tobe doing.
I say to people, you know, ifyou, if you saw something
smoldering.
You could get a glass of waterand throw it on that and it
would put out that smolder.

(32:37):
If you wait for that to setfire, that glass of water's
gonna do nothing.
Mm-hmm.
And it's the same with us.
If, if we look at our diariesand go, I'm back to back, I'm
seeing, like I used to speak topsychologists who were seeing
eight, nine people a day back toback and be like, oh, I'm fine.
Well you might be fine today,but I could almost guarantee

(32:59):
give it a few years.
Or even shorter for some people,and you're not going to be fine.
Now, we all have differentcapacities, of course, so for
some people, seeing three peoplein a day might be capacity.
Some people may be able to seesix or seven people because
maybe they don't have all theother things going on.

(33:19):
In their life, or maybe they dohave, um, a different kind of
energy level.
So I'm not saying everybodyshould do like minimal.
This, this, for me, I think oneof the fears can be, you know, I
work a lot with women non-binaryand gender diverse folk, high
achieving.

Mm-hmm.
And

I think some of the fear can be, but if I
slow down or if I don't, youknow, if I become more
compassionate to myself or if Ichange the way I'm doing things,
I won't be successful.
I won't be achieving.
I don't believe that's true atall because I think a lot of the
stuff we do a lot of the time isbusy.
Being busy.

Oh, absolutely agree.
Yes.
And And I was very much likethat, that you just keep going,
keep going.
And I did the.
Eight clients a day, five days aweek, six days a week, sometimes
for years.
Yeah.
And wore that badge.
Yeah.
A big badge of honor about beingbusy.
Yeah.

(34:19):
But I paid a price.
Absolutely.
And you cannot possibly do thatrelentlessly without some sort
of impact.
And it might be that it's thatcomplete disconnection from the
world around you.

Yeah.
And I think you know it.
Like I said before, I mean,people, people have different
capacity and capabilities of howmuch they can do, but everybody
needs to take care of their bodyand mind.

Exactly.

That's a non-negotiable, and if you
don't, I, I think you, you areultimately gonna end up in
burnout somewhere, but I thinkone of the really toxic things
we hear is, well, burnout'sinevitable.
I remember listening to apodcast.
I was in the car with my husbandand I was listening to a podcast
and the person said, well.
Everyone's gonna end up inburnout, so it's better you end

(35:08):
up there sooner rather thanlater.
And I was ranting in the car.
Oh, I can imagine.
Absolutely.
Ranting in the car and I waslike, that is ridiculous.
We are literally saying topeople, just burn out and then
get over it.
That is so irresponsible.
Exactly.
And it's not inevitable.
We can be putting things inplace that can help.

(35:32):
When we are busy, like I, I liketo think of things like you, we
need to understand that if we'regonna be really busy and have
heavy loads, it's gotta be asprint, not a marathon.

Yes.

You know, we can't just keep doing it.
We can do it for a period oftime, but then we have to have
time where we are not working atthat level.
And I like to do what I callfront loading self-care.
Mm.
Tell us about that.
If I know I'm going into areally busy period, I'll start
to think, okay, what do I needto do to build my resilience for

(36:06):
myself, make sure I'm gettingenough sleep opportunity,
because we can't control howmuch sleep we get, but we can
decide on how much sleepopportunity we're gonna give
ourselves.

Mm.
So

if we want eight hours of sleep, we need to
be in bed for at least eighthours.
Right?

Yeah.

If we're only in bed for seven hours, there's
no way you get an eight.

Mm-hmm.

Plenty of sleep opportunity.
Making sure I'm hydrated, makingsure that I'm well nourished,
making sure that I'm not reallybusy in the run up to the period
where I'm gonna be busy.
Mm.
And starting to think what aresome of the things that I can do
for my nervous system as well?
Then going into the period ofbeing busy, making sure during

(36:47):
that time I'm also checking inwith myself.
What are the behaviors I need tobe doing?
What are the structures andstrategies I need around me?
How do I need to resource myselfduring this busy period?
Mm.
And then can I give myself somespaciousness after the busy
period?

Yes.

So I can rest, maybe go have some fun, do
some fun things, because perhapsI've had to put a bit of the fun
stuff on hold, maybe some of thesocializing.
Mm-hmm.
Whilst I've got all this otherstuff on.
So that I can reengage with thatbecause we know that that
community connection andinvolvement with others is so
important for us as humanbeings.

(37:29):
And again, that's gonna bediffering levels for different
people.
Mm.
So for me, it's like before,during, and after is really
important in terms of how do Itake care of myself And this
can't be ongoing for months andmonths and months and months and
months.

No.
No,

not without a price.

Exactly.
And I think that's the thingthat we need to remember that.
Yeah, sure.
You can do it.
Absolutely.
But at what cost?

Yeah, I did it for years.
Exactly.
I pushed through.
I pushed through, I pushedthrough, and then I crashed to
the ground.

Exactly.
And it's that crash that youwant to prevent other people
from experiencing.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, because

you

know it's horrendous.
You wouldn't wish it on yourworst enemy, would you?

And also I don't believe anybody.
If they sat and thought, what isthe sort of life I want?
I really don't think anybody'sgoing.
I want one where I feeloverwhelmed and I'm exhausted
and I don't have enough time formy family and I never see my
friends and I can't sit down andenjoy a meal quietly.

(38:38):
And I know there's parents ofyoung kids out there that would
dream of having a meal quietlythat that will come, I promise
it will come.
Nobody's dreaming of a lifewhere they just feel rushed and
stressed and their nervoussystem's activated all the time
and they're trying to keepeverybody else happy.
Mm-hmm.
That's.
That's nobody's dream, right?

No, definitely not the dream life.
No.
I think that you've painted apicture that you are living the
dream life that, that a lot ofus are striving for, and I love
that.
I love that so much.
And I take my hat off to you forhaving turned the awful
experience you had into theopportunity and the gift that

(39:20):
you have.
Because look at, look at lifenow for you.

Yeah.
And you know, it feels like adream life for me.
And I also know that my dreamlife isn't someone else's dream
life.

No.

And certainly when I work with people, it's
not about, here's a prescriptionof how to live this life that
you see.
It really is about get to knowyourself.
What is it you want?
What do your dream and desires?
What do you need to do to changethings and learn to do things
differently so you can be livinga values aligned, meaningful
life for yourself, whatever thatlooks like.

Yes.

Yeah.

So if you could share one thing that you feel
would be important with thelisteners as they navigate their
burnout, recovery, trauma,recovery, adversity, recovery,
whatever it is, and move intopost-traumatic growth, what
would it be?

Oh gosh.
Well, just one.
Ah, well you can do three orfour if you like.
Look, I think I've been saying alot lately is like, one, really
acknowledge that you matter andtake care of yourself
accordingly.

Mm-hmm.

But also, I think the other thing that is
really important is.
Having a willingness to receivethe flow of compassion from
other people and, and havesupport and help from other
people.
And I know that can be really,really difficult.
And that was something that wasvery difficult for me.

Yeah.

So if it is something that's really
difficult for you.
Please practice even with littlethings, like if somebody offers
you to make you a cup of tea.
I know there's people, somebodysaid they'll make you a cup of
tea.
No, no, it's all right.
I'll get it.
Like it can be that ingrainedthat we don't want to accept
help.
So even if it's starting smalllike that, somebody offers for

(41:09):
you to go in front of them in aqueue or something and you just
say Thank you and take thatopportunity so that you can
build up to.
I need help to work throughthis.
I need help with my, like maybewith a therapist with my mental
health after what I've beenthrough, or you know, a trauma
therapist or coach who can helpyou or somebody like myself,

(41:32):
where if you wanna redesign yourbusiness and your life that you
can have that help.
So I think, you know, you matterand treat yourself accordingly,
but also practice being able toreceive help from other people
because we can't do this alone.
We're not meant to, we're socialbeings, we're not meant to be
doing life by ourselves.

(41:53):
When I changed that and learnedthat, I was like, wow, this is
so much, not only easier becauseyou're not holding everything
yourself, but it's so muchnicer, like you're in community
and connection with people.

It makes such a difference, doesn't it?
It really does, and I think, youknow, if, if you are sitting
there listening now and you feellike, yeah, you really are
isolated and doing it alone,then I really urge you to listen
to what Hayley is saying andjust try one little thing.
Yeah.
Because, you know, look whereyou've come from, hay to where

(42:28):
you are now and, and it startedwith little steps.
It didn't happen overnight, didit?
God, no.
Not all way.
No.
We're still a work

in

progress.
Oh, I think we all are.
Aren't we really?
You know, I hope so.
We never get to the end.
Yeah.
It's like we're always learningand growing and it's, it's
exciting to know that.
How we are today is not howwe're gonna be the end.

I, I just had the thought as well.
When it comes to receiving helpfrom other people, think about
how much you like helpingsomebody.
'cause most of us really likehelping people, right?
Yeah.
So think about how much you likehelping somebody and imagine the
gift you are giving someone elsewhen you ask them to help you.
'cause people that care about usand, and love us, they want to

(43:14):
help.

Yes.

And even strangers, like people love
helping people.

Yeah.
Spot on.
Really.
And you, you just said that sobeautifully because we get such
great feelings out of helpingother people and, and by letting
someone do that to us, it mightfeel really uncomfortable to
start with, but it gets easier,doesn't it?

(43:41):
Absolutely.
Accepting that help.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So now as we move to wrapping upthe conversation, I'd love you
to share where our listeners canfind you online and anything
else you wanna about youramazing book.

Oh, fantastic.
Thank you.
I'm very excited that, yes, mybook will be out for pre-orders
next week.
I can't even believe it, butthat's very cool.
Um, so I am, my website isDrhayleydquinn.com.
Mm-hmm.
And.
People will be able to order thebook, pre-order the book online.

(44:18):
If they're outside of Australia,it will have to be online.
If they are in Australia,they'll have the choice of
ordering from an onlineretailer, whatever your favorite
online retailer is.
Or they can order from mywebsite, and if they order from
my website, they can have thebook dedicated to themselves or
somebody else.
And I'll sign that and send thatnicely to them.
So that'll be the option.

(44:40):
I also have a book wait list,and if people are on my book
wait list, there'll be some,there'll be some pre-order
bonuses anyway for people.
Mm-hmm.
But if you are on my book waitlist, there'll be some extra
special pre-order bonuses sopeople will be able to jump on
there.
And also I'll be sharing kind ofsneak peeks and things of the
book on that as well.

(45:00):
That's very exciting.
I'm so excited.
Like a kid waiting forChristmas.
Oh, I know.
And then I'm on Instagram,LinkedIn, Facebook as Dr.
Hayley d Quinn.
Um, my dms and emails are alwaysopen, but as I say, they're
always open, but I don't alwaysrespond straight away because
I've got boundaries aroundthose.
But I love people sending memessages.

(45:22):
So if you've got any questionsor you just wanna reach out and
say hi, then feel free to dothat.
And it's always me thatresponds, unless it's one of
those comment episode 104 andthen you'll get an automated
link for the podcast.
But excellent.
And yes, otherwise it's me,

ex.
I'll put all those links in theshow notes.
But yes, Hayley also has apodcast, so did you wanna share
that as well?
Yeah, about the podcast.

Yeah, so that's Welcome to Self.
It used to be called Caring forthe Human in the Therapist
chair.
So the early episodes are aimedat therapists, but I had lots of
people telling me that they werereally helpful for non
therapists anyway.
And now it's called Welcome toSelf and it really is all about
self-care, self-compassion,sustainable ways of living and
working.
And uh, yeah, we recently had ahundred episodes that was very

(46:07):
exciting as well.

Huge milestone.
Yes.
So I highly recommend going overand listening to Hayley's
amazing podcast.
Thank you.
Such a wealth of wisdom andknowledge that she imparts
there.
And as you know, I always end myepisode and I'll be interested
to see if it's changed fromepisode seven when I ask you the

(46:29):
question I won't remember.
What do you think your youngerself.
Would think of where you are nowand what you've achieved.

Oh, she's just, she's just beside herself
at the minute, like we've beenchecking in quite regularly and
she's in the book and she'spretty stoked about that.
And as a teenager at highschool, I wanted to write a
book, actually wanted to write anovel, but I was not in a great
head space.
And I had a lovely Englishteacher who had offered to the.

(47:01):
Read anything I wrote, but I wasnot open to somebody helping me,
so I decided I wasn't gonnabother writing.
She's so sad when I think aboutit now.
Yeah.
But she's just like, oh my gosh,we did it.
She's, yeah.
Oh.
Yeah, that's, yeah, it's, oh,I'm, I'm, it's all very surreal
at the moment, I'll be honest.
It's very surreal at the moment.

I love it so much, and I, I know I'm on your wait
list and I'm very excited to getmy hands on a copy.
When is it likely to be out?
And available.
So

yeah, so the publication date will be in the
new year.
Okay.
And I, I had different thoughtsabout that, but you know,
Christmas people are, are busyand we've got the school
holidays, so it's coming outearly February in time for
Valentine's Day.
So you can actually be your ownValentine.
And build that relationship withyourself.

(47:57):
And then we'll haveInternational Women's Day coming
up shortly after.
So pre-orders will be 18th ofNovember.
Mm-hmm.
The book will be early February.

Fantastic.
And yes, I honestly urge you allto get out and buy a copy of
that Get on Hayley's wait listand I'm so excited and I'm
honestly, I, I feel so proud tosee how far you've come and all
the amazing changes that you'vemade, even just in the last

(48:26):
year.

Thank you so much.
That means such a lot.

Oh, honestly, I feel honored and blessed to be
your friend.
Oh, same.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story again today and going
at a much deeper level andreally being such an open book.
And yeah, thank you so much.
You're so welcome.
Thank you.
Okay, bye for now Thank you forjoining me in this episode of

(48:58):
Growing Tall Poppies.
It is my deepest hope thattoday's episode may have
inspired and empowered you tostep fully into your
post-traumatic growth, so thatyou can have absolute clarity
around who you are, what mattersthe most to you, and to assist
you to release your negativeemotions.

(49:20):
And regulate your nervous systemso you can fully thrive.
New episodes are published everyTuesday, and I hope you'll
continue to join us as weexplore both the strategies and
the personal qualities requiredto fully live a life of
post-traumatic growth and tothrive.
So if it feels aligned to youand really resonates, then I

(49:44):
invite you to hit subscribe andit would mean the world to us.
If you could share this episodewith others who you feel may
benefit too, you may also findme on Instagram at Growing Tall
Poppies and Facebook, Dr.
Natalie Green.
Remember, every moment is anopportunity to look for the

(50:07):
lessons and to learn andincrease your ability to live
the life you desire and deserve.
So for now, stay connected.
Stay inspired.
Stand tall like the tall poppyyou are, and keep shining your
light brightly in the world.
Bye for.

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