June 16, 2025 • 42 mins
In this powerful and heart-opening episode of Growing Tall Poppies, Dr Nat Green sit down with the radiant Kathy Rausch—a mandala artist, author, and teacher—who vulnerably shares how the darkest chapter of her life cracked her open to divine transformation through creativity. Kathy shares her powerful story of overcoming deep trauma and hitting rock bottom. After being disowned by her family and spiraling into despair, she shared how after attempting suicide she then found healing through the creation of mandalas. Kathy discovered the healing potential of mandala art—an ancient spiritual symbol of wholeness. That one moment, one circle, would go on to save her life.
Kathy walks us through:
- 🌸 Her deeply personal story of loss, trauma, and spiritual awakening
- 🎨 How creating mandalas helped her reconnect with her true self
- 🌀 The neuroscience behind mandalas and why they calm the nervous system
- ✨ The surprising connection between sacred geometry, creativity, and post-traumatic growth
- 💡 Why art can be therapy—even if you’ve never picked up a paintbrush
Whether you're on your own healing journey or you're a therapist, coach, or health professional supporting others, this episode is a stunning reminder of the power of art, presence, and allowing the heart to lead.
Kathy also reveals insights from her book, 'Activate Divine Creativity,' and emphasizes the importance of self-belief, community, the power of giving yourself permission to feel and heal and the innate joy within us all.
Mentioned in the Episode:
- Kathy’s book: Activate Divine Creativity: The Life-Changing Magic of the Mandala
- Carl Jung’s use of mandalas in therapy
- The role of both hemispheres of the brain in healing through art
- How mandalas are now being integrated into trauma recovery, PTSD support, and even scientific institutions
Timestamps and Episode Flow
01:24 Meet Our Guest: Kathy Rausch
02:53 Kathy's Journey with Mandalas
05:32 The Healing Power of Mandalas
16:45 Scientific Validation and Broader Impact
21:35 Introduction to the Mandala Book
22:38 Impact and Feedback from Readers
27:32 The Healing Power of Mandalas
30:40 Community and Connection
31:50 Transformative Effects of Mandalas
🎧 Tune in for a truly transformative conversation that proves healing doesn’t always come from words—it can come from the simple, sacred act of drawing within a circle.
Connect with Kathy:-
If this episode resonates with you then I'd love for you to hit SUBSCRIBE so you can keep updated with each new episode as soon as it's released and we'd be most grateful if you would give us a RATING as well. You can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drnatgreen/ or on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DrNatalieGreen
Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Nat Green (00:01):
Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nat Green, and I'm so excited tohave you join me as we discuss
what it means to navigate yourway through post-traumatic
growth and not just survive, butto thrive after trauma.
(00:23):
Through our podcast, we willexplore ways for you to create a
life filled with greaterpurpose, self-awareness, and a
deep inner peace.
Through integrating the manyyears of knowledge and
professional experience, as wellas the wisdom of those who have
experienced trauma firsthand.
(00:44):
We'll combine psychologyaccelerated approaches.
Coaching and personal experienceto assist you, to learn, to grow
and to thrive.
I hope to empower you to createdeeper awareness and
understanding and strongerconnections with yourself and
with others, whilst also pavingthe way for those who have
(01:08):
experienced trauma and adversityto reduce their suffering and
become the very best versions ofthemselves.
In order to thrive.
Thank you so much for joining meon today's episode.
I'm really pleased and gratefultoday to bring you our next
guest on the Growing TallPoppies podcast.
(01:31):
It's my absolute pleasure andprivilege to welcome a lovely
lady who I've met recentlythrough an event for podcasters.
She has experienced and overcomeconsiderable trauma and
adversity throughout her life.
Anne has so kindly agreed tocome and chat with us today
about her experience.
So let me start by introducingKathy to you all.
(01:53):
Kathy Rausch is a mandalaartist, author, and teacher.
She studied art at UW Madison,Wisconsin and the Milwaukee
School of Arts, and studied andpainted the Mandala with Merry
Norris and Paul Heussenstamm Iprobably did not pronounce that
correctly.
It's okay.
(02:14):
She discovered the power ofMandalas whilst on her own
healing journey and founded Ilove Mandalas and has been
teaching others to create theirssince 2013.
So welcome Kathy.
It's so great to have you here.
Kathy Rausch (02:30):
Thank you.
I am, I am honored.
I am honored.
Thank you.
Dr Nat Green (02:36):
So I've given a very little introduction.
I'm just wondering mm-hmm.
And I know I won't have doneyour life introduction, justice.
So can we start with you givingus a brief introduction in your
own words of who you are andwhat you do in the world?
Kathy Rausch (02:53):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So, I am a, sometimes I laugh.
I'm a cheesehead from Wisconsinand I tend to have the accent
that goes with it.
However, my whole life I have,loved.
Being creative in art from aslong as I can remember.
That was my go-to.
(03:15):
I come from a very, a largefamily in, eight children.
And I also am a triplet, but mytriplet sisters are identical.
So I was, I often felt alone inthis huge, huge family.
And art always, you know, justbeing creative in any way was my
escape.
I was alone a lot.
I remember walking through theflowers and drawing flowers and
(03:38):
all as whatever I could do.
And I, and I always found ahappy, happy place.
And don't, we had a lot of,lovely times in my family, but
there was a lot.
Like many people, there was alot of.
Trauma, you know, a bit of ahard word, but that's true.
Yeah.
In the year, 2010 somethinghappened with my family and I
(04:00):
was basically disowned and Ibecame suicidal and it was not
pretty.
I have since been in recoveryand, but in that, right around
that time, you know, as I said,I wanted to, I just wanted to
die.
I did not know how to deal withall of these feelings.
(04:20):
I had no, no way to.
Deal with them not knowing thatI should just deal with them.
But I've tried wanting toescape.
And at that time, I met a fewwomen and they told me they were
in an art show.
They had paintings in a show andI was like, oh, are you all
artists?
(04:40):
And they said, no, and Ithought, well.
How can that be?
Whatever that is.
I wanna see it.
So, I, it was at the Jung Hausinterestingly enough, but I
really didn't, I had no ideawhat Mandalas were, and so I
didn't even know, understandwhen I was looking at, but the
whole show was beautiful,painted very different.
(05:05):
Mandalas.
Mm-hmm.
And I read their artiststatements and what, you know,
each one experienced while theywere painting this their own
personal mandala.
And I said, whatever this is,I'm in.
And Merry the woman I mentioned,Merry Norris, she's, was very
persistent woman.
And I was very soon in my firstfour day Mandala class.
(05:29):
Wow.
Uh, Mandala workshop.
And what I wanna say after that,what, what I realized years
later was what happened in thosefour days is, my, it was like a,
pierce of light of the divinepierced into my heart.
Hmm.
(05:50):
And I could feel again, Iwasn't, the pain and the, grief
parted for a while and from thenon, I have been painting and
drawing and teaching and I wrotea book about it also.
It's become my thing.
Yes.
Dr Nat Green (06:05):
So tell me then.
Like life wasn't great prior tothat.
You were in a world of pain andtrying to avoid those feelings.
Right.
So just seeing you as we weretalking then light up as you
said that.
So tell me a bit about, as bestas you can describe it, what you
(06:26):
felt.
You said it was like the divinecoming into your heart.
Tell me a bit more about that.
Kathy Rausch (06:33):
Oh that's a good question.
I guess how I can describe it,how I remember it very vividly
is I, first of all, I wassurrounded by women who are all
painting together.
Merry had a studio in herbasement, beautiful studio with
about eight people could be inthere with their own place to
paint.
And, like I said, I didn't knowwhat a Mandala was.
(06:55):
I was even, even at a moment of.
Ooh, I grew up Catholic.
I wonder if, is there somethingwrong with this?
But, it very quickly went awayand I got really engaged in this
process of the Circle Mandalameans circle.
Mm-hmm.
And I, like, I immediately knewI want to paint this about my
family.
(07:16):
And it's there's, it turned outas I painted it, I felt calm.
Dr Nat Green (07:22):
Okay.
Yep.
Kathy Rausch (07:23):
And I felt happy and I cried, but not desperate
crying.
I began to feel like myselfagain and Wow.
It was, I mean, I attributed tosaving my life and yeah.
Does that make, does that, doesthat answer?
Dr Nat Green (07:41):
It does.
It describes it beautifully.
So it sounds like it reallyallowed you to connect to those
nice feelings that you'd hiddenfor so long, or you'd become so
disconnected from.
Probably since you were a reallyyoung girl, to be honest
Kathy Rausch (07:59):
may not.
Not as much.
I also happened to be running alarge tech company that, oh
gosh, I'm also very technicaland that, so I had all these
employees and I was just likeburied.
Buried in things that thoughtsand feelings that mm-hmm.
Were not my own.
But yeah, I mean, I had manytimes of feeling.
(08:20):
Like that growing up when I wasalone painting, or I was sewing,
or I was mm-hmm.
Creating batiks or, you know, soit wasn't, you know, it wasn't
that I never felt good in mychildhood, but it was, it was
very stifling.
And it sounds like a lot ofstuff was also going on around
you, within the organization, soyou'd taken on other people's
(08:45):
stuff and Yes.
You're obviously someone whofeels deeply and is an empath,
so takes on feelings andthoughts and beliefs from other
people within yourself.
So it sounds like this was a wayto bring you back to yourself
and find an escape to releasestuff that was never yours to
(09:08):
carry.
Would that be right?
Yeah, and it's, not even reallyan escape.
It was like, it like parted allthat I.
All of that was parted and Ifelt me again.
It was just such a beautifulthing.
Dr Nat Green (09:22):
And I, it's quite a while ago, but I can still see
as we are talking that it'slights you up and you connect to
that still so deeply.
Yes.
Yes.
How did you initially cope?
So you did this workshop, youhad this whole sense of.
Things parting and suddenlyfeeling different.
(09:43):
What were your immediatereactions then?
Kathy Rausch (09:47):
Oh, I was, I was like, look at this.
I even, uh, this isembarrassing.
I even brought it into work.
We had a lot of very talentedartists from like Carnegie
Mellon, you know, just who weredoing our, the artistic part of.
The websites mostly we wereworking on, and I'm like, look
(10:09):
what I did.
I'm just skipping around like alittle kid.
And I, I'm pretty sure they werelike, oh my god, you know?
Okay.
That's great.
Oh dear.
I was just, and I had it in ashow and my kid, my two grown
sons came to it and they were sohappy for me and I just, it was
(10:30):
wonderful.
Now, it didn't all go away, ofcourse.
However, I mean, I did six morefour day workshops with Merry
over the following year and ahalf.
And we started, you know, webecame friends and then I
started drawing them and, it's,today I have hundreds of I call
Mandala doodles, but some of'emare quite beautiful.
Dr Nat Green (10:50):
So tell me what that led to for you, because I
know that you've turned.
The experiences and the traumainto your passion and you pay it
forward to others now.
So tell me a bit about that.
Kathy Rausch (11:04):
Yeah.
It was about, let's see, so Iwas taking classes at the
spiritual center.
I.
That I belong to.
And I would always start in theclass and I would start with the
dot, and then towards the endI'd just have a mandala that I
drew in.
After a while, people startedasking me, how did you do that?
And within a month or so I gotthis message as I was sleeping.
(11:29):
Like teach people how to drawthem.
They can do that.
It's much more accessible.
And here are the steps for yourclass.
And I, you know, wrote'em down.
And lo and behold, I startedteaching.
And that was in 2013.
And the first woman I asked, shehad a, a spiritual.
(11:51):
Center, doing all kinds of reikiand mm-hmm.
Cool stuff that I was actuallykind of unfamiliar with, but the
second I said the word Mandala,she said yes, whatever it is.
Yes.
And so, oh, okay.
Yeah, that's when I started toteach and I just, I haven't
stopped.
It definitely slowed down duringCOVID, but I've been all over
(12:13):
the US and in Canada I'vetaught.
Over a thousand people, how todraw their own Mandala and it's,
you know, it's just somethingthat people have come to know me
as the Mandala lady, although Iwill tell you, most people say
Mandala or mandala yeah.
Mandala is the correct way,which I was taught.
(12:36):
Mm-hmm.
It's a Sanskrit word.
And in Sanskrit, a threesyllable word.
The first syllable is alwaysannunciated
Dr Nat Green (12:45):
mandala.
There you go, we've learned alot today already.
And yes, I know that might be myAustralian accent and that might
be how we tend to say it.
Absolutely.
And I'm not offended, but I dolike to tell people.
Yeah.
So tell me then,'cause I knowour listeners will be,
everyone's seen Mandalas and,and I've always been fascinated.
I have a coloring in bookinterestingly that Yes, yes.
(13:08):
I enjoy coloring in and I wasdrawn to the mandala and, oh,
I'll get that.
And it's quite time consuming,but I always find it calming.
So tell me a bit about Mandalaand what it means and what it's
about.
Kathy Rausch (13:23):
Okay.
So yeah, the, definition, as Isaid of it's a Sanskrit word and
it means circle.
Mm-hmm.
And, the art, it basically didoriginate from as far as the
word goes from eastern artreligions.
And it is so.
(13:46):
Powerful because it's a circle.
And circles are, you know, nowall the science is coming in
about how, this stuff has allbeen proven scientifically, but
our brains are very familiarwith circles and we, you know,
we engage with circles all thetime.
I mean, we're looking into eachother's circle eyes, you know?
(14:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
So then when you create amandala it's typically, and not
always, but typically, in theway I teach it, is divided into
equal sections.
So it's, it gets very, basicgeometry.
Mm-hmm.
And so both sides of your brainfire up and it's the same when
(14:27):
you're coloring them.
Mm.
Both sides of your brain fire uptogether and you become.
A very centered, it, producesneurons and, things to be fired.
That gives us dopamine and, youknow, all these wonderful
feelings.
It's just a very familiar thingto do, and the way I teach it is
(14:50):
I have them start, have peoplestart with the same with a
process that divides it in.
Four and then six, and theneight.
And then I have them start allthe same in the middle.
And then as they go out, I say,okay, now I want you to think of
your own symbols.
Okay.
And I always get pushback.
(15:10):
Oh, interesting.
Some pushback.
And, but it is inevitable.
Everybody I've had like maybe.
Less than five people say, Ican't do this.
But they just, all of a suddenthe room becomes quiet.
And they've gone as long as fourhours where I'm like, okay, my
goodness.
Gotta you got end now.
Dr Nat Green (15:31):
When you say you get pushback, what do you think
that, that pushback is about?
Kathy Rausch (15:37):
Oh, good question.
They don't trust that theycould.
draw something, most of them.
Mm-hmm.
Of course there are someartistic people who just go to
town.
But yeah, they're like, what?
What do you mean a symbol?
And I'm like, everyone knowswhat a symbol is.
I kind of, you know, I, I'm verylighthearted about it.
And I, it does not have to be asacred symbol or something
(15:59):
religious or benevolent.
It can be whatever you want itto be.
And then, so, and when peopleget stuck, I say, all right,
let's start with the littlecircle.
And so you draw it in the same,in one part of the mandala like
here.
Mm-hmm.
And then.
You draw seven more in the sameplace and you suddenly circles
(16:21):
are starting and pretty quicklythe pushback ends.
And then after a while.
I will break out little stencilsthat I have of birds and hearts
and the ohm symbol and thingslike that.
But it's just amazing to watch.
And at the end, they're all,just so you know, 99% of'em are
(16:43):
just so delighted with whatthey've done.
And I, you know, I've, have youheard of this book, your Brain
on Art?
No.
Only from when you mentioned itrecently.
Yeah.
Oh, it's just, it's justamazing.
It's full of, proof, scientificproof.
These women, two, women fromGoogle and johns Hopkins,
mm-hmm.
Have done all kinds of researchin the arts and in and how it.
(17:08):
They use it for PSDD.
PSTD, PTSD.
PTSD.
So it's there.
It's what I'm so happy about isthat it's now being
scientifically proven that beingan artist in any manner,
expressing art in any way orlooking at art.
(17:28):
Does that to your brain, itstarts to calm you down
Dr Nat Green (17:33):
really fascinating, isn't it?
And as you said, it reallyengages both hemispheres, left
brain and right brain, so Right.
The over analyzing and the overcritical part of us.
Yes.
Working.
With the other side and thecreative part.
So connecting together, they'recommunicating in ways that we
(17:56):
tend not to when we're stuck inRight.
Trauma or hurt and pain.
Yes.
I love that so much.
Kathy Rausch (18:03):
And it, you know, you, I can see, or if it's over
Zoom, I can sense when ithappens sometime individually
sometimes.
I did a few workshops for, agovernment agency here when they
hired me, I didn't know whatthey, their name is Sandhia.
I was like, sure, I'll and itturns out to be a government
agency of 16,000 scientists, andI was Oh.
(18:26):
Oh my God, what have I gottenmyself into?
And wow, they loved it.
They had to cap it at a hundredpeople and I did it a few times
and.
And it was men and women.
It's not just for women by anymeans, sounds very
Dr Nat Green (18:42):
powerful and yes, and the fact that it's appealing
to scientists.
Yes.
And getting more traction inthat neuroscience and evidence
base is.
You were way ahead of your time,weren't you?
By bringing this?
Well, Carl Jung was the firstone.
Kathy Rausch (19:01):
Yes.
Carl Jung wrote a huge, he had ahuge book.
It's called The Red Book, andit's like this big, and it's
his, all of the Mandalas that hecreated, but he talks about his
patients and how he just hadthem start with a circle and it
just helps people just to.
Let everything else go and justbecome one with this circle, and
(19:24):
they make it their own and it'sso delightful.
Dr Nat Green (19:28):
Powerful.
Oh, very powerful.
And it must be fabulous to seethat every one of them is
different.
Unique to that person.
So there's no two Mandalas thatare the same?
No.
Kathy Rausch (19:41):
There are no, and I have hundreds and hundreds of
examples of my studentsmandalas.
I think there's, there are some,I have a couple of websites.
But yeah, there, every one ofthem is different.
And I'll tell this, story.
I, I started to do it.
I did it for my daughter-in-law,for her art.
Class.
She's a high school advanced artteacher.
(20:02):
And so the art they do is justamazing.
And so I went in and did it forher class, and she now teaches
it every year and incorporatesit with other art methods like
painting or shading.
Mm-hmm.
But when I was there, you know,I'm looking around and just
like, always, I'm like, oh myGod, this is so wonderful.
Or, oh, I love your mushrooms.
And she says, those aren'tmushrooms.
Those are penises.
(20:24):
This.
You do you basically, she was asenior in high school, but Wow.
Yeah, so I just never know.
Dr Nat Green (20:36):
Yeah.
Oh, fascinating.
And to think that you are notrestricted to having to do this
in person, that you now teachthis on Zoom.
Kathy Rausch (20:45):
Yes.
Which is it's just amazing to dothat.
I wrote the book that also wasdownloaded to me, oh.
I know a woman who is a,professor at Harvard PhD in
Harvard, two degrees mm-hmm.
In Eastern Religion andgoddesses.
And she endorsed my book.
Wow.
Oh, wow.
Amazing.
She said, I cannot tell peoplein real life vernacular.
(21:11):
I.
What a mandala is because shewill go to the extreme.
'cause she so has so muchknowledge.
Mm.
And she's like, thank you forwriting this book so regular
people like you, like me.
Mm-hmm.
Understand what it is and thepower of it.
Dr Nat Green (21:28):
So tell me about your book.
I know our listeners will bethinking, Ooh, there's a book
about this.
So how do we do this?
Kathy Rausch (21:35):
It is called activate divine creativity, the
life changing magic of theMandala and during this process,
it's eight chapters, likethere's eight sections in a
Mandala.
I decided I should draw, handdraw mandala for each chapter.
So here's one.
Okay.
Yep.
(21:56):
And so I drew them.
And then I also have a workbookthat goes with it that, an, that
you can, do for each Mandala'cause each one has meaning.
The first one is the seed isplanted, the second one is, and
so it grows expansion andcreation and it goes on in the,
from through our lifetimesself-actualization.
Dr Nat Green (22:16):
Yeah.
So the book will help people beable to understand the role of
the mandalas and how to createtheir own.
Kathy Rausch (22:28):
Yes.
So at the end of each chapter, Ihave one step that you start
with, and then at the end, bythe end you have your own little
Mandala that you've drawn.
Dr Nat Green (22:38):
Excellent.
Kathy Rausch (22:38):
I had a woman contact me, and she said, I took
your class a year ago, and Ithought you should know that I
have a hundred of my.
Mandalas on display at theWesterville Library.
You should go see them.
Dr Nat Green (22:49):
What's that like for you, knowing that you've
written this book, you'veproduced it, created it, and
it's out there in the world andyou're getting that sort of
feedback,
Kathy Rausch (23:00):
um, mean it's amazing.
It, you know, when that happens.
I haven't sold a ton of'em, butI've gotten a lot of really good
reviews.
It's just, oh my God.
It's just like so affirming andI feel, honored to be able to
help people like that.
Another woman tracked me down onFacebook and sent me this long
(23:27):
message and said, I, you know,my name is, her name and I'm
from India, and your book savedmy life and my daughter's life
as we're going through a verydifficult divorce.
I wanna thank you.
Oh, and I was just like, youknow what, what I mean, and I
was showing my husband and hesays, if that's all that happens
(23:48):
from your book.
It's worth it Exactly.
Oh, I got goosebumps.
And she's now an art therapistand has her own practice and I
wish she was closer.
I'd love to visit her.
So very,
Dr Nat Green (23:58):
very powerful.
And what a gift that you.
Experience that gift of beingable to reconnect to yourself.
Yes.
Heal, start that healing journeyto heal from your trauma.
Mm-hmm.
And now you are paying itforward.
So I'll make sure we put a linkto your book in the show notes.
(24:18):
And, and yes.
The other book, was it the YourBrain on Art, because I know
that there's a lot of Yes.
Therapists and coaches thatlisten to the podcast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a lot of people thatwill listen to the podcast that
are on their own healingjourneys, but also work with
clients.
Yes, I've
Kathy Rausch (24:37):
noticed that.
I've been listening to yourpodcast and it's just so
wonderful.
Dr Nat Green (24:41):
Oh, thank you.
Kathy Rausch (24:42):
You are welcome.
Dr Nat Green (24:43):
So when you look at how far you've come from
where you were with everythingyou'd been through growing up
and where you were, and thenyour turning point, what do you
feel have been some of yourgreatest challenges that you've
now overcome?
Kathy Rausch (25:00):
Oh, well, believing in myself as a real
artist.
Mm.
That has always, that's when Iwent to the Milwaukee School of
the Arts.
One of the first things the.
Ah, what is he?
The director of said You shouldnever paint again.
Oh, really?
And I've heard that from quite afew other people.
(25:22):
I had the opportunity lastsummer to go to Europe in
Venice, to the, EuropeanCultural Arts Academy and
studied for two weeks withartists from all over the world.
Amazing.
And there, I was not the onlyperson who heard that from their
dean of art or of their schoolor college.
It's, it can be a very.
(25:44):
Cutthroat place to be in thatreally, I mean, I was 18 when
that happened and but it, youknow, it didn't stop me from
painting, thank goodness.
Dr Nat Green (25:52):
Right So when you look, do you think there's any
specific qualities or personalattributes that you see as being
key to moving from trauma intopost-traumatic growth?
Kathy Rausch (26:08):
Oh boy.
When you say attribute, do youMean
Dr Nat Green (26:13):
anything like within yourself as a person or
that you see in other peoplethat you've worked with
throughout the mandalatrainings.
What do you notice?
Any specific things in common?
Kathy Rausch (26:29):
Yeah.
I would say the biggest, whatcomes to mind is that they gave
their self permission to dosomething that they didn't think
they would like nor besuccessful at.
Hmm.
I have heard that from so manythat they, you know, they've
heard of Mandalas, and they werecurious, but they never, they
didn't think they could reallydo it, and at the end they're
just blown away.
(26:49):
Like, I did not think I wasgonna do this.
So what I see is there's like aprocess.
They start and they're like,okay, okay.
And then they get a little bitengaged and then they're just
gone.
They're gone.
It's them and their art.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Nat Green (27:06):
Yeah.
Does that answer?
Yeah, it does.
So they gave themselvespermission, and I know that you
said before that one of the keythings was that you have learned
to believe in yourself.
Yes.
Kathy Rausch (27:18):
Yes.
And if you know, in trauma gosh,just allowing yourself to get
out of it.
Even though like it's gonna, myexperience, it can follow you
around like a cloud.
Of
Dr Nat Green (27:31):
course.
Kathy Rausch (27:32):
However if I get out, if I do this, I mean, I
draw a lot of mandalas when I'min the process of, you know,
doing something mentallydifficult.
Mm-hmm.
Or challenging or fun and, justallowing myself to do that.
For a while I was kind of hiding'cause I was drawing so many of
it and, didn't want really wantpeople to see what I was doing,
(27:54):
but Okay.
Yeah, just, give yourselfpermission even, it doesn't have
to be artistic, but to get on abike or go for a ride.
Mm-hmm.
Or go to the store and buyyourself some flowers, or plant
some flowers.
Even when it doesn't feel good.
Yes.
Not always gonna feel good, andthat's one of the biggest things
(28:17):
I have learned is to.
Not be so afraid of thosefeelings and to accept them.
I mean, even to, you know, nowafter this many years, I still,
you know, it's like, oh, no, notthis again.
Here we go.
And I've got, it's taken me awhile to still be like, it's
okay.
I love you.
You know, all that stuff that I,for a long time thought was just
(28:37):
so silly to say, I love youlittle child.
Mm-hmm.
It's not, I even Google,Meditation for to love your
young child and Yes, there are.
There
Dr Nat Green (28:47):
are, yes.
Yeah.
And like you said, it's aboutgiving yourself permission and
one of the big keys of that isto feel, because we spend so
much time avoiding thosefeelings,'cause they're painful,
they're awful.
Mm-hmm.
We don't wanna stay stuck inthat discomfort and that pain,
(29:07):
but it sounds like you're ableto use the Mandalas to really
help peel back the layers andallow ourselves to feel, and you
can do a little bit at a time bythe sound of it.
You don't have to do it all inone go.
Yep.
You just allow yourself to doit, to feel and give yourself
permission to create.
(29:29):
Yeah.
To create
Kathy Rausch (29:31):
to just step out of it and to know that those
feelings are not gonna kill you.
It's how, how you react to thosefeelings.
Dr Nat Green (29:41):
And when you are using Mandalas, you can continue
to be in charge and in controland allow yourself to sit with
that and produce.
And that creativity can allowthings to be processed and
released.
I'm gathering Yeah.
Kathy Rausch (29:56):
A funny story.
During the pandemic.
I was miserable for, you know,like many of us and just so
angry and I heard a voice and,um, I won't say the swear but
word, but I heard very loudlydraw a effing Mandala.
And I was like, whoa.
And I started off, And then I, Igot over that and it, it turned
(30:17):
into a really, you know,beautiful little Mandala that I
drew.
So, yeah, it's hard, you know,life is hard and, and for me
too, also realizing I'm not theonly one who's experienced bad
stuff by any means, you know?
No.
And I think
Dr Nat Green (30:32):
when we've experienced trauma or something
really awful, we do feelisolated and alone.
One thing that I also noticedthat you said back in that very
first workshop, you were therewith other women.
Yeah.
It didn't have to be women, butother women.
So you had a community, right?
(30:52):
Community.
So community was really, reallyimportant.
And that's what you continue tocreate in your workshops is that
sense of not being alone.
Kathy Rausch (31:03):
Yeah.
And there's, a lot of theseretreats I went to, I've had
this idea one night to, therewere all these big round tables
and I happened to have paperwith me and tape and I.
Created a big, it was a six footround table and I covered it
with white and verymeticulously.
I stayed up all night.
(31:23):
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
And I started doodling amandala.
I started in the middle and bythe time they all got in, there
was this big mandala for themall to color.
And so I've done quite a few ofthose at retreats.
I don't do them by hand anymore.
I do use the computer, but, um,be
Dr Nat Green (31:41):
a bit easier.
Kathy Rausch (31:42):
Yeah.
It's just a way to, communityart is so powerful.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Dr Nat Green (31:49):
Yeah.
So you've talked about thejourney you were on and then
how, you know, you were atabsolute rock bottom, tried to
kill yourself, and how this hashelped save you.
Mm-hmm.
How else has.
The experience of the Mandalas,how has that transformed your
(32:10):
perspective on life, onrelationships and your personal
values?
Kathy Rausch (32:15):
Ooh, on life.
What I realized, you know, andit wasn't like an aha moment.
No.
Well, and also the process ofwriting this book, I'm not a
writer, but I did it.
Mm-hmm.
Is that life is hard and it'shard for everyone.
I am not alone.
(32:36):
It's also beautiful andwonderful and fun, and to be
able to balance that.
And understand that is sofreeing.
Mm.
Still isn't easy.
And I don't, I still fall intoit and I'm getting better and
(32:57):
better at just accepting me aswho I am.
And what were the other
Dr Nat Green (33:03):
questions?
You, how it's transformed yourperspective on relationships as
well.
I know you had quite challenginginterwoven relationships with
siblings and being a triplet andthe challenges that that's
brought.
So how has it transformed thatperspective on relationships?
Kathy Rausch (33:25):
The biggest change for me is that I am okay.
I don't need to rely on Thoserelationships, I miss them.
I miss them a lot.
And that's okay too.
It's, you know, it's forwhatever reason, karma, God's
(33:46):
will, whatever I, this is thelife that I have.
Mm-hmm.
And as I walk throughrelationships with my husband,
which has not always been easy,and my sons and getting through.
The feelings of being betrayedand sad and angry is part of the
(34:09):
process.
And.
I've heard so much aboutjournaling, it doesn't always
help you immediately.
Let's just, no, it doesn't.
It's not like I journal.
It's like, woo, don't skip outof the, it's like, oh, well I
got that out and then I like todraw a mandala which just, it
just makes me feel better.
Yeah.
It's releasing those chemicalsthe neural pathways, making new
(34:31):
neural pathways and cortisone.
And is that the.
I am no scientist,
Dr Nat Green (34:37):
but you're doing a really good job explaining it
and blending the arts with thescience, and I think yes, you've
shared a lot of powerfulinformation today.
So yeah.
If you could share one thingwith our listeners that would
help them as they navigate theirpost-trauma or adversity
experiences and move intopost-traumatic growth, what
(34:57):
would it be?
Kathy Rausch (34:59):
One message.
You can have more than one ifyou like I believe that all of
us have this core real essencethat is joy.
That is love.
That is expansion.
That I believe that that's thecore.
Mm-hmm.
Of who we are.
And you know, I believe thatbecause I've felt it and I know
it.
I felt it often when I wasgrowing up.
(35:20):
I could feel it.
Yeah.
It was when I started to babysitit, it just like blossomed.
I was like, whoa.
So that is never gone.
I don't believe anything cantake that away.
It's just, it gets lost and themore you can just, I can tap
into that and breathe into it.
(35:41):
And that I finally realized,I've been meditating for a long
time and it took me a while torealize why it's so powerful.
'cause even for a few minutes ora few seconds sometimes mm-hmm.
I can feel that, that it's ityour true, real self.
The beauty of who you are, theessence of who you are never
(36:04):
goes away.
It is not gone.
It is not ruined.
Dr Nat Green (36:08):
Oh, I love that so much.
Very powerful message that eventhough it can feel like things
are being taken away or we'velost, it's always there.
And it's about working out howto tap back into that.
Kathy Rausch (36:22):
Yeah.
Tapping back into it and atfirst just.
Knowing it's there took me along time to even realize that's
what happened as I started to doart again.
It's like it tapped into that,that like that light, I just saw
it like pierced right into thatlittle creative girl.
Like you're still there.
You are still there.
(36:44):
You know, I will tell you it'smade me into a pretty incredible
grandmother because I'm, we'reconstantly being creative and I
let them get dirty and I letthem mess up the house to a
degree.
It's, you know,'cause I don'twant them to ever have it be
buried like I did.
(37:05):
Yay.
Dr Nat Green (37:06):
Yeah.
So as we move to wrapping thisconversation up, where can our
listeners find out more aboutyou and find you online?
Kathy Rausch (37:15):
They can go to Ilovemandalas.com.
I.
That's easy that's good toremember.
I love, and it'sM-A-N-A-D-A-L-A-S.
That's why we say Mandalas ormandalas.
I love mandalas.com.
KathyRausch.com also will pointto it,
Dr Nat Green (37:32):
Yeah, so I'll put that in the show notes with a
link and Yeah.
Yes.
And then, and also on Instagramit's, I_ love mandalas_ and on
Facebook it's just Kathy Rausch.
Excellent.
I'll put all that in there and,and they can get on and connect
with you and, and look at yourbook and yes.
(37:54):
We can all explore this wholenew world of Mandalas.
Yeah, we
Kathy Rausch (38:00):
should, we should.
I would love to coordinate aworkshop in Australia so that,
I'm not trying to get peoplefrom all over doing different
time zones, but that would be.
Lovely.
Dr Nat Green (38:11):
Oh, maybe we could get people to reach out.
Yeah, reach out and connect withus, and we could look at getting
a Mandala workshop up onlinethrough growing tall poppies.
That would be amazing.
Oh my gosh.
That would be so great.
Kathy Rausch (38:24):
Yes.
I mean, look at the poppies.
They're just, they're justmother nature's Mandalas.
I love it.
And just like flowers.
No flowers are the same.
No, Nope.
Two poppies are the same, butthey're poppies.
Mandalas are just like
Dr Nat Green (38:39):
that.
Snowflakes, also snowflakes.
Yes, So one thing I like toalways finish with my guests on
is what do you think youryoungest self would think of
everything you've done in yourlife now?
Kathy Rausch (38:58):
Wow, that's a beautiful question.
I think she would be like way togo.
You did it.
I knew you could do this whenyou were Oh, when I was very
five, my best friend died as shewas coming to my house, she was
hit by a car and died.
(39:20):
You know, that kind of thing.
It happened and, but it didn'ttake away, you know, she would
say.
I am so happy we connectedagain.
I'm so happy.
I am a big part of this life.
You are leading while you'retrying to be an adult.
Wow.
Dr Nat Green (39:40):
You just gave me absolute chills and goosebumps
that really Oh,
Kathy Rausch (39:44):
yay.
Dr Nat Green (39:45):
Hit home that it's never
Kathy Rausch (39:46):
gone.
Your true essence is never gone.
Even if you have to fake it,it's not hard.
Fake it till you make, it's noteasy, but.
And I've learned that there's awonderful website called the Joy
within.org.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it's just a, a wonderfulteacher that I found who, who
really helped me through the,just know it's always there.
It is.
Always there.
Dr Nat Green (40:07):
Beautiful.
What a wonderful note to finishon.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.
Kathy Rausch (40:13):
Oh my gosh.
You're welcome.
It's been, I'm just honored andso pleased to be doing this with
you, and I love your podcast andyou, you have some really,
really helpful, funny, beautifulpeople on your podcast.
It's, it's really great.
Dr Nat Green (40:28):
Thank you and, and your one that we can add to the
list.
You've been an absolute delight.
Thank you so much and I lookforward to talking with you
again soon.
Alright.
Bye-bye.
Have a good night Thanks Kathy.
Bye for now.
Thank you for joining me in thisepisode of Growing Tall Poppies.
(40:51):
It is my deepest hope thattoday's episode may have
inspired and empowered you tostep fully into your
post-traumatic growth, so thatyou can have absolute clarity
around who you are, what mattersthe most to you, and to assist
you to release your negativeemotions.
(41:12):
And regulate your nervous systemso you can fully thrive.
New episodes are published everyTuesday, and I hope you'll
continue to join us as weexplore both the strategies and
the personal qualities requiredto fully live a life of
post-traumatic growth and tothrive.
So if it feels aligned to youand really resonates, then I
(41:35):
invite you to hit subscribe andit would mean the world to us.
If you could share this episodewith others who you feel may
benefit too, you may also findme on Instagram at Growing Tall
Poppies and Facebook, Dr.
Natalie Green.
Remember, every moment is anopportunity to look for the
(41:58):
lessons and to learn andincrease your ability to live
the life you desire and deserve.
So for now, stay connected.
Stay inspired.
Stand tall like the tall poppyyou are, and keep shining your
light brightly in the world.
Bye for.
Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nat Green, and I'm so excited tohave you join me as we discuss
what it means to navigate yourway through post-traumatic
growth and not just survive, butto thrive after trauma.
(00:23):
Through our podcast, we willexplore ways for you to create a
life filled with greaterpurpose, self-awareness, and a
deep inner peace.
Through integrating the manyyears of knowledge and
professional experience, as wellas the wisdom of those who have
experienced trauma firsthand.
(00:44):
We'll combine psychologyaccelerated approaches.
Coaching and personal experienceto assist you, to learn, to grow
and to thrive.
I hope to empower you to createdeeper awareness and
understanding and strongerconnections with yourself and
with others, whilst also pavingthe way for those who have
(01:08):
experienced trauma and adversityto reduce their suffering and
become the very best versions ofthemselves.
In order to thrive.
Thank you so much for joining meon today's episode.
I'm really pleased and gratefultoday to bring you our next
guest on the Growing TallPoppies podcast.
(01:31):
It's my absolute pleasure andprivilege to welcome a lovely
lady who I've met recentlythrough an event for podcasters.
She has experienced and overcomeconsiderable trauma and
adversity throughout her life.
Anne has so kindly agreed tocome and chat with us today
about her experience.
So let me start by introducingKathy to you all.
(01:53):
Kathy Rausch is a mandalaartist, author, and teacher.
She studied art at UW Madison,Wisconsin and the Milwaukee
School of Arts, and studied andpainted the Mandala with Merry
Norris and Paul Heussenstamm Iprobably did not pronounce that
correctly.
It's okay.
(02:14):
She discovered the power ofMandalas whilst on her own
healing journey and founded Ilove Mandalas and has been
teaching others to create theirssince 2013.
So welcome Kathy.
It's so great to have you here.
Kathy Rausch (02:30):
Thank you.
I am, I am honored.
I am honored.
Thank you.
Dr Nat Green (02:36):
So I've given a very little introduction.
I'm just wondering mm-hmm.
And I know I won't have doneyour life introduction, justice.
So can we start with you givingus a brief introduction in your
own words of who you are andwhat you do in the world?
Kathy Rausch (02:53):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So, I am a, sometimes I laugh.
I'm a cheesehead from Wisconsinand I tend to have the accent
that goes with it.
However, my whole life I have,loved.
Being creative in art from aslong as I can remember.
That was my go-to.
(03:15):
I come from a very, a largefamily in, eight children.
And I also am a triplet, but mytriplet sisters are identical.
So I was, I often felt alone inthis huge, huge family.
And art always, you know, justbeing creative in any way was my
escape.
I was alone a lot.
I remember walking through theflowers and drawing flowers and
(03:38):
all as whatever I could do.
And I, and I always found ahappy, happy place.
And don't, we had a lot of,lovely times in my family, but
there was a lot.
Like many people, there was alot of.
Trauma, you know, a bit of ahard word, but that's true.
Yeah.
In the year, 2010 somethinghappened with my family and I
(04:00):
was basically disowned and Ibecame suicidal and it was not
pretty.
I have since been in recoveryand, but in that, right around
that time, you know, as I said,I wanted to, I just wanted to
die.
I did not know how to deal withall of these feelings.
(04:20):
I had no, no way to.
Deal with them not knowing thatI should just deal with them.
But I've tried wanting toescape.
And at that time, I met a fewwomen and they told me they were
in an art show.
They had paintings in a show andI was like, oh, are you all
artists?
(04:40):
And they said, no, and Ithought, well.
How can that be?
Whatever that is.
I wanna see it.
So, I, it was at the Jung Hausinterestingly enough, but I
really didn't, I had no ideawhat Mandalas were, and so I
didn't even know, understandwhen I was looking at, but the
whole show was beautiful,painted very different.
(05:05):
Mandalas.
Mm-hmm.
And I read their artiststatements and what, you know,
each one experienced while theywere painting this their own
personal mandala.
And I said, whatever this is,I'm in.
And Merry the woman I mentioned,Merry Norris, she's, was very
persistent woman.
And I was very soon in my firstfour day Mandala class.
(05:29):
Wow.
Uh, Mandala workshop.
And what I wanna say after that,what, what I realized years
later was what happened in thosefour days is, my, it was like a,
pierce of light of the divinepierced into my heart.
Hmm.
(05:50):
And I could feel again, Iwasn't, the pain and the, grief
parted for a while and from thenon, I have been painting and
drawing and teaching and I wrotea book about it also.
It's become my thing.
Yes.
Dr Nat Green (06:05):
So tell me then.
Like life wasn't great prior tothat.
You were in a world of pain andtrying to avoid those feelings.
Right.
So just seeing you as we weretalking then light up as you
said that.
So tell me a bit about, as bestas you can describe it, what you
(06:26):
felt.
You said it was like the divinecoming into your heart.
Tell me a bit more about that.
Kathy Rausch (06:33):
Oh that's a good question.
I guess how I can describe it,how I remember it very vividly
is I, first of all, I wassurrounded by women who are all
painting together.
Merry had a studio in herbasement, beautiful studio with
about eight people could be inthere with their own place to
paint.
And, like I said, I didn't knowwhat a Mandala was.
(06:55):
I was even, even at a moment of.
Ooh, I grew up Catholic.
I wonder if, is there somethingwrong with this?
But, it very quickly went awayand I got really engaged in this
process of the Circle Mandalameans circle.
Mm-hmm.
And I, like, I immediately knewI want to paint this about my
family.
(07:16):
And it's there's, it turned outas I painted it, I felt calm.
Dr Nat Green (07:22):
Okay.
Yep.
Kathy Rausch (07:23):
And I felt happy and I cried, but not desperate
crying.
I began to feel like myselfagain and Wow.
It was, I mean, I attributed tosaving my life and yeah.
Does that make, does that, doesthat answer?
Dr Nat Green (07:41):
It does.
It describes it beautifully.
So it sounds like it reallyallowed you to connect to those
nice feelings that you'd hiddenfor so long, or you'd become so
disconnected from.
Probably since you were a reallyyoung girl, to be honest
Kathy Rausch (07:59):
may not.
Not as much.
I also happened to be running alarge tech company that, oh
gosh, I'm also very technicaland that, so I had all these
employees and I was just likeburied.
Buried in things that thoughtsand feelings that mm-hmm.
Were not my own.
But yeah, I mean, I had manytimes of feeling.
(08:20):
Like that growing up when I wasalone painting, or I was sewing,
or I was mm-hmm.
Creating batiks or, you know, soit wasn't, you know, it wasn't
that I never felt good in mychildhood, but it was, it was
very stifling.
And it sounds like a lot ofstuff was also going on around
you, within the organization, soyou'd taken on other people's
(08:45):
stuff and Yes.
You're obviously someone whofeels deeply and is an empath,
so takes on feelings andthoughts and beliefs from other
people within yourself.
So it sounds like this was a wayto bring you back to yourself
and find an escape to releasestuff that was never yours to
(09:08):
carry.
Would that be right?
Yeah, and it's, not even reallyan escape.
It was like, it like parted allthat I.
All of that was parted and Ifelt me again.
It was just such a beautifulthing.
Dr Nat Green (09:22):
And I, it's quite a while ago, but I can still see
as we are talking that it'slights you up and you connect to
that still so deeply.
Yes.
Yes.
How did you initially cope?
So you did this workshop, youhad this whole sense of.
Things parting and suddenlyfeeling different.
(09:43):
What were your immediatereactions then?
Kathy Rausch (09:47):
Oh, I was, I was like, look at this.
I even, uh, this isembarrassing.
I even brought it into work.
We had a lot of very talentedartists from like Carnegie
Mellon, you know, just who weredoing our, the artistic part of.
The websites mostly we wereworking on, and I'm like, look
(10:09):
what I did.
I'm just skipping around like alittle kid.
And I, I'm pretty sure they werelike, oh my god, you know?
Okay.
That's great.
Oh dear.
I was just, and I had it in ashow and my kid, my two grown
sons came to it and they were sohappy for me and I just, it was
(10:30):
wonderful.
Now, it didn't all go away, ofcourse.
However, I mean, I did six morefour day workshops with Merry
over the following year and ahalf.
And we started, you know, webecame friends and then I
started drawing them and, it's,today I have hundreds of I call
Mandala doodles, but some of'emare quite beautiful.
Dr Nat Green (10:50):
So tell me what that led to for you, because I
know that you've turned.
The experiences and the traumainto your passion and you pay it
forward to others now.
So tell me a bit about that.
Kathy Rausch (11:04):
Yeah.
It was about, let's see, so Iwas taking classes at the
spiritual center.
I.
That I belong to.
And I would always start in theclass and I would start with the
dot, and then towards the endI'd just have a mandala that I
drew in.
After a while, people startedasking me, how did you do that?
And within a month or so I gotthis message as I was sleeping.
(11:29):
Like teach people how to drawthem.
They can do that.
It's much more accessible.
And here are the steps for yourclass.
And I, you know, wrote'em down.
And lo and behold, I startedteaching.
And that was in 2013.
And the first woman I asked, shehad a, a spiritual.
(11:51):
Center, doing all kinds of reikiand mm-hmm.
Cool stuff that I was actuallykind of unfamiliar with, but the
second I said the word Mandala,she said yes, whatever it is.
Yes.
And so, oh, okay.
Yeah, that's when I started toteach and I just, I haven't
stopped.
It definitely slowed down duringCOVID, but I've been all over
(12:13):
the US and in Canada I'vetaught.
Over a thousand people, how todraw their own Mandala and it's,
you know, it's just somethingthat people have come to know me
as the Mandala lady, although Iwill tell you, most people say
Mandala or mandala yeah.
Mandala is the correct way,which I was taught.
(12:36):
Mm-hmm.
It's a Sanskrit word.
And in Sanskrit, a threesyllable word.
The first syllable is alwaysannunciated
Dr Nat Green (12:45):
mandala.
There you go, we've learned alot today already.
And yes, I know that might be myAustralian accent and that might
be how we tend to say it.
Absolutely.
And I'm not offended, but I dolike to tell people.
Yeah.
So tell me then,'cause I knowour listeners will be,
everyone's seen Mandalas and,and I've always been fascinated.
I have a coloring in bookinterestingly that Yes, yes.
(13:08):
I enjoy coloring in and I wasdrawn to the mandala and, oh,
I'll get that.
And it's quite time consuming,but I always find it calming.
So tell me a bit about Mandalaand what it means and what it's
about.
Kathy Rausch (13:23):
Okay.
So yeah, the, definition, as Isaid of it's a Sanskrit word and
it means circle.
Mm-hmm.
And, the art, it basically didoriginate from as far as the
word goes from eastern artreligions.
And it is so.
(13:46):
Powerful because it's a circle.
And circles are, you know, nowall the science is coming in
about how, this stuff has allbeen proven scientifically, but
our brains are very familiarwith circles and we, you know,
we engage with circles all thetime.
I mean, we're looking into eachother's circle eyes, you know?
(14:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
So then when you create amandala it's typically, and not
always, but typically, in theway I teach it, is divided into
equal sections.
So it's, it gets very, basicgeometry.
Mm-hmm.
And so both sides of your brainfire up and it's the same when
(14:27):
you're coloring them.
Mm.
Both sides of your brain fire uptogether and you become.
A very centered, it, producesneurons and, things to be fired.
That gives us dopamine and, youknow, all these wonderful
feelings.
It's just a very familiar thingto do, and the way I teach it is
(14:50):
I have them start, have peoplestart with the same with a
process that divides it in.
Four and then six, and theneight.
And then I have them start allthe same in the middle.
And then as they go out, I say,okay, now I want you to think of
your own symbols.
Okay.
And I always get pushback.
(15:10):
Oh, interesting.
Some pushback.
And, but it is inevitable.
Everybody I've had like maybe.
Less than five people say, Ican't do this.
But they just, all of a suddenthe room becomes quiet.
And they've gone as long as fourhours where I'm like, okay, my
goodness.
Gotta you got end now.
Dr Nat Green (15:31):
When you say you get pushback, what do you think
that, that pushback is about?
Kathy Rausch (15:37):
Oh, good question.
They don't trust that theycould.
draw something, most of them.
Mm-hmm.
Of course there are someartistic people who just go to
town.
But yeah, they're like, what?
What do you mean a symbol?
And I'm like, everyone knowswhat a symbol is.
I kind of, you know, I, I'm verylighthearted about it.
And I, it does not have to be asacred symbol or something
(15:59):
religious or benevolent.
It can be whatever you want itto be.
And then, so, and when peopleget stuck, I say, all right,
let's start with the littlecircle.
And so you draw it in the same,in one part of the mandala like
here.
Mm-hmm.
And then.
You draw seven more in the sameplace and you suddenly circles
(16:21):
are starting and pretty quicklythe pushback ends.
And then after a while.
I will break out little stencilsthat I have of birds and hearts
and the ohm symbol and thingslike that.
But it's just amazing to watch.
And at the end, they're all,just so you know, 99% of'em are
(16:43):
just so delighted with whatthey've done.
And I, you know, I've, have youheard of this book, your Brain
on Art?
No.
Only from when you mentioned itrecently.
Yeah.
Oh, it's just, it's justamazing.
It's full of, proof, scientificproof.
These women, two, women fromGoogle and johns Hopkins,
mm-hmm.
Have done all kinds of researchin the arts and in and how it.
(17:08):
They use it for PSDD.
PSTD, PTSD.
PTSD.
So it's there.
It's what I'm so happy about isthat it's now being
scientifically proven that beingan artist in any manner,
expressing art in any way orlooking at art.
(17:28):
Does that to your brain, itstarts to calm you down
Dr Nat Green (17:33):
really fascinating, isn't it?
And as you said, it reallyengages both hemispheres, left
brain and right brain, so Right.
The over analyzing and the overcritical part of us.
Yes.
Working.
With the other side and thecreative part.
So connecting together, they'recommunicating in ways that we
(17:56):
tend not to when we're stuck inRight.
Trauma or hurt and pain.
Yes.
I love that so much.
Kathy Rausch (18:03):
And it, you know, you, I can see, or if it's over
Zoom, I can sense when ithappens sometime individually
sometimes.
I did a few workshops for, agovernment agency here when they
hired me, I didn't know whatthey, their name is Sandhia.
I was like, sure, I'll and itturns out to be a government
agency of 16,000 scientists, andI was Oh.
(18:26):
Oh my God, what have I gottenmyself into?
And wow, they loved it.
They had to cap it at a hundredpeople and I did it a few times
and.
And it was men and women.
It's not just for women by anymeans, sounds very
Dr Nat Green (18:42):
powerful and yes, and the fact that it's appealing
to scientists.
Yes.
And getting more traction inthat neuroscience and evidence
base is.
You were way ahead of your time,weren't you?
By bringing this?
Well, Carl Jung was the firstone.
Kathy Rausch (19:01):
Yes.
Carl Jung wrote a huge, he had ahuge book.
It's called The Red Book, andit's like this big, and it's
his, all of the Mandalas that hecreated, but he talks about his
patients and how he just hadthem start with a circle and it
just helps people just to.
Let everything else go and justbecome one with this circle, and
(19:24):
they make it their own and it'sso delightful.
Dr Nat Green (19:28):
Powerful.
Oh, very powerful.
And it must be fabulous to seethat every one of them is
different.
Unique to that person.
So there's no two Mandalas thatare the same?
No.
Kathy Rausch (19:41):
There are no, and I have hundreds and hundreds of
examples of my studentsmandalas.
I think there's, there are some,I have a couple of websites.
But yeah, there, every one ofthem is different.
And I'll tell this, story.
I, I started to do it.
I did it for my daughter-in-law,for her art.
Class.
She's a high school advanced artteacher.
(20:02):
And so the art they do is justamazing.
And so I went in and did it forher class, and she now teaches
it every year and incorporatesit with other art methods like
painting or shading.
Mm-hmm.
But when I was there, you know,I'm looking around and just
like, always, I'm like, oh myGod, this is so wonderful.
Or, oh, I love your mushrooms.
And she says, those aren'tmushrooms.
Those are penises.
(20:24):
This.
You do you basically, she was asenior in high school, but Wow.
Yeah, so I just never know.
Dr Nat Green (20:36):
Yeah.
Oh, fascinating.
And to think that you are notrestricted to having to do this
in person, that you now teachthis on Zoom.
Kathy Rausch (20:45):
Yes.
Which is it's just amazing to dothat.
I wrote the book that also wasdownloaded to me, oh.
I know a woman who is a,professor at Harvard PhD in
Harvard, two degrees mm-hmm.
In Eastern Religion andgoddesses.
And she endorsed my book.
Wow.
Oh, wow.
Amazing.
She said, I cannot tell peoplein real life vernacular.
(21:11):
I.
What a mandala is because shewill go to the extreme.
'cause she so has so muchknowledge.
Mm.
And she's like, thank you forwriting this book so regular
people like you, like me.
Mm-hmm.
Understand what it is and thepower of it.
Dr Nat Green (21:28):
So tell me about your book.
I know our listeners will bethinking, Ooh, there's a book
about this.
So how do we do this?
Kathy Rausch (21:35):
It is called activate divine creativity, the
life changing magic of theMandala and during this process,
it's eight chapters, likethere's eight sections in a
Mandala.
I decided I should draw, handdraw mandala for each chapter.
So here's one.
Okay.
Yep.
(21:56):
And so I drew them.
And then I also have a workbookthat goes with it that, an, that
you can, do for each Mandala'cause each one has meaning.
The first one is the seed isplanted, the second one is, and
so it grows expansion andcreation and it goes on in the,
from through our lifetimesself-actualization.
Dr Nat Green (22:16):
Yeah.
So the book will help people beable to understand the role of
the mandalas and how to createtheir own.
Kathy Rausch (22:28):
Yes.
So at the end of each chapter, Ihave one step that you start
with, and then at the end, bythe end you have your own little
Mandala that you've drawn.
Dr Nat Green (22:38):
Excellent.
Kathy Rausch (22:38):
I had a woman contact me, and she said, I took
your class a year ago, and Ithought you should know that I
have a hundred of my.
Mandalas on display at theWesterville Library.
You should go see them.
Dr Nat Green (22:49):
What's that like for you, knowing that you've
written this book, you'veproduced it, created it, and
it's out there in the world andyou're getting that sort of
feedback,
Kathy Rausch (23:00):
um, mean it's amazing.
It, you know, when that happens.
I haven't sold a ton of'em, butI've gotten a lot of really good
reviews.
It's just, oh my God.
It's just like so affirming andI feel, honored to be able to
help people like that.
Another woman tracked me down onFacebook and sent me this long
(23:27):
message and said, I, you know,my name is, her name and I'm
from India, and your book savedmy life and my daughter's life
as we're going through a verydifficult divorce.
I wanna thank you.
Oh, and I was just like, youknow what, what I mean, and I
was showing my husband and hesays, if that's all that happens
(23:48):
from your book.
It's worth it Exactly.
Oh, I got goosebumps.
And she's now an art therapistand has her own practice and I
wish she was closer.
I'd love to visit her.
So very,
Dr Nat Green (23:58):
very powerful.
And what a gift that you.
Experience that gift of beingable to reconnect to yourself.
Yes.
Heal, start that healing journeyto heal from your trauma.
Mm-hmm.
And now you are paying itforward.
So I'll make sure we put a linkto your book in the show notes.
(24:18):
And, and yes.
The other book, was it the YourBrain on Art, because I know
that there's a lot of Yes.
Therapists and coaches thatlisten to the podcast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a lot of people thatwill listen to the podcast that
are on their own healingjourneys, but also work with
clients.
Yes, I've
Kathy Rausch (24:37):
noticed that.
I've been listening to yourpodcast and it's just so
wonderful.
Dr Nat Green (24:41):
Oh, thank you.
Kathy Rausch (24:42):
You are welcome.
Dr Nat Green (24:43):
So when you look at how far you've come from
where you were with everythingyou'd been through growing up
and where you were, and thenyour turning point, what do you
feel have been some of yourgreatest challenges that you've
now overcome?
Kathy Rausch (25:00):
Oh, well, believing in myself as a real
artist.
Mm.
That has always, that's when Iwent to the Milwaukee School of
the Arts.
One of the first things the.
Ah, what is he?
The director of said You shouldnever paint again.
Oh, really?
And I've heard that from quite afew other people.
(25:22):
I had the opportunity lastsummer to go to Europe in
Venice, to the, EuropeanCultural Arts Academy and
studied for two weeks withartists from all over the world.
Amazing.
And there, I was not the onlyperson who heard that from their
dean of art or of their schoolor college.
It's, it can be a very.
(25:44):
Cutthroat place to be in thatreally, I mean, I was 18 when
that happened and but it, youknow, it didn't stop me from
painting, thank goodness.
Dr Nat Green (25:52):
Right So when you look, do you think there's any
specific qualities or personalattributes that you see as being
key to moving from trauma intopost-traumatic growth?
Kathy Rausch (26:08):
Oh boy.
When you say attribute, do youMean
Dr Nat Green (26:13):
anything like within yourself as a person or
that you see in other peoplethat you've worked with
throughout the mandalatrainings.
What do you notice?
Any specific things in common?
Kathy Rausch (26:29):
Yeah.
I would say the biggest, whatcomes to mind is that they gave
their self permission to dosomething that they didn't think
they would like nor besuccessful at.
Hmm.
I have heard that from so manythat they, you know, they've
heard of Mandalas, and they werecurious, but they never, they
didn't think they could reallydo it, and at the end they're
just blown away.
(26:49):
Like, I did not think I wasgonna do this.
So what I see is there's like aprocess.
They start and they're like,okay, okay.
And then they get a little bitengaged and then they're just
gone.
They're gone.
It's them and their art.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Nat Green (27:06):
Yeah.
Does that answer?
Yeah, it does.
So they gave themselvespermission, and I know that you
said before that one of the keythings was that you have learned
to believe in yourself.
Yes.
Kathy Rausch (27:18):
Yes.
And if you know, in trauma gosh,just allowing yourself to get
out of it.
Even though like it's gonna, myexperience, it can follow you
around like a cloud.
Of
Dr Nat Green (27:31):
course.
Kathy Rausch (27:32):
However if I get out, if I do this, I mean, I
draw a lot of mandalas when I'min the process of, you know,
doing something mentallydifficult.
Mm-hmm.
Or challenging or fun and, justallowing myself to do that.
For a while I was kind of hiding'cause I was drawing so many of
it and, didn't want really wantpeople to see what I was doing,
(27:54):
but Okay.
Yeah, just, give yourselfpermission even, it doesn't have
to be artistic, but to get on abike or go for a ride.
Mm-hmm.
Or go to the store and buyyourself some flowers, or plant
some flowers.
Even when it doesn't feel good.
Yes.
Not always gonna feel good, andthat's one of the biggest things
(28:17):
I have learned is to.
Not be so afraid of thosefeelings and to accept them.
I mean, even to, you know, nowafter this many years, I still,
you know, it's like, oh, no, notthis again.
Here we go.
And I've got, it's taken me awhile to still be like, it's
okay.
I love you.
You know, all that stuff that I,for a long time thought was just
(28:37):
so silly to say, I love youlittle child.
Mm-hmm.
It's not, I even Google,Meditation for to love your
young child and Yes, there are.
There
Dr Nat Green (28:47):
are, yes.
Yeah.
And like you said, it's aboutgiving yourself permission and
one of the big keys of that isto feel, because we spend so
much time avoiding thosefeelings,'cause they're painful,
they're awful.
Mm-hmm.
We don't wanna stay stuck inthat discomfort and that pain,
(29:07):
but it sounds like you're ableto use the Mandalas to really
help peel back the layers andallow ourselves to feel, and you
can do a little bit at a time bythe sound of it.
You don't have to do it all inone go.
Yep.
You just allow yourself to doit, to feel and give yourself
permission to create.
(29:29):
Yeah.
To create
Kathy Rausch (29:31):
to just step out of it and to know that those
feelings are not gonna kill you.
It's how, how you react to thosefeelings.
Dr Nat Green (29:41):
And when you are using Mandalas, you can continue
to be in charge and in controland allow yourself to sit with
that and produce.
And that creativity can allowthings to be processed and
released.
I'm gathering Yeah.
Kathy Rausch (29:56):
A funny story.
During the pandemic.
I was miserable for, you know,like many of us and just so
angry and I heard a voice and,um, I won't say the swear but
word, but I heard very loudlydraw a effing Mandala.
And I was like, whoa.
And I started off, And then I, Igot over that and it, it turned
(30:17):
into a really, you know,beautiful little Mandala that I
drew.
So, yeah, it's hard, you know,life is hard and, and for me
too, also realizing I'm not theonly one who's experienced bad
stuff by any means, you know?
No.
And I think
Dr Nat Green (30:32):
when we've experienced trauma or something
really awful, we do feelisolated and alone.
One thing that I also noticedthat you said back in that very
first workshop, you were therewith other women.
Yeah.
It didn't have to be women, butother women.
So you had a community, right?
(30:52):
Community.
So community was really, reallyimportant.
And that's what you continue tocreate in your workshops is that
sense of not being alone.
Kathy Rausch (31:03):
Yeah.
And there's, a lot of theseretreats I went to, I've had
this idea one night to, therewere all these big round tables
and I happened to have paperwith me and tape and I.
Created a big, it was a six footround table and I covered it
with white and verymeticulously.
I stayed up all night.
(31:23):
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
And I started doodling amandala.
I started in the middle and bythe time they all got in, there
was this big mandala for themall to color.
And so I've done quite a few ofthose at retreats.
I don't do them by hand anymore.
I do use the computer, but, um,be
Dr Nat Green (31:41):
a bit easier.
Kathy Rausch (31:42):
Yeah.
It's just a way to, communityart is so powerful.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Dr Nat Green (31:49):
Yeah.
So you've talked about thejourney you were on and then
how, you know, you were atabsolute rock bottom, tried to
kill yourself, and how this hashelped save you.
Mm-hmm.
How else has.
The experience of the Mandalas,how has that transformed your
(32:10):
perspective on life, onrelationships and your personal
values?
Kathy Rausch (32:15):
Ooh, on life.
What I realized, you know, andit wasn't like an aha moment.
No.
Well, and also the process ofwriting this book, I'm not a
writer, but I did it.
Mm-hmm.
Is that life is hard and it'shard for everyone.
I am not alone.
(32:36):
It's also beautiful andwonderful and fun, and to be
able to balance that.
And understand that is sofreeing.
Mm.
Still isn't easy.
And I don't, I still fall intoit and I'm getting better and
(32:57):
better at just accepting me aswho I am.
And what were the other
Dr Nat Green (33:03):
questions?
You, how it's transformed yourperspective on relationships as
well.
I know you had quite challenginginterwoven relationships with
siblings and being a triplet andthe challenges that that's
brought.
So how has it transformed thatperspective on relationships?
Kathy Rausch (33:25):
The biggest change for me is that I am okay.
I don't need to rely on Thoserelationships, I miss them.
I miss them a lot.
And that's okay too.
It's, you know, it's forwhatever reason, karma, God's
(33:46):
will, whatever I, this is thelife that I have.
Mm-hmm.
And as I walk throughrelationships with my husband,
which has not always been easy,and my sons and getting through.
The feelings of being betrayedand sad and angry is part of the
(34:09):
process.
And.
I've heard so much aboutjournaling, it doesn't always
help you immediately.
Let's just, no, it doesn't.
It's not like I journal.
It's like, woo, don't skip outof the, it's like, oh, well I
got that out and then I like todraw a mandala which just, it
just makes me feel better.
Yeah.
It's releasing those chemicalsthe neural pathways, making new
(34:31):
neural pathways and cortisone.
And is that the.
I am no scientist,
Dr Nat Green (34:37):
but you're doing a really good job explaining it
and blending the arts with thescience, and I think yes, you've
shared a lot of powerfulinformation today.
So yeah.
If you could share one thingwith our listeners that would
help them as they navigate theirpost-trauma or adversity
experiences and move intopost-traumatic growth, what
(34:57):
would it be?
Kathy Rausch (34:59):
One message.
You can have more than one ifyou like I believe that all of
us have this core real essencethat is joy.
That is love.
That is expansion.
That I believe that that's thecore.
Mm-hmm.
Of who we are.
And you know, I believe thatbecause I've felt it and I know
it.
I felt it often when I wasgrowing up.
(35:20):
I could feel it.
Yeah.
It was when I started to babysitit, it just like blossomed.
I was like, whoa.
So that is never gone.
I don't believe anything cantake that away.
It's just, it gets lost and themore you can just, I can tap
into that and breathe into it.
(35:41):
And that I finally realized,I've been meditating for a long
time and it took me a while torealize why it's so powerful.
'cause even for a few minutes ora few seconds sometimes mm-hmm.
I can feel that, that it's ityour true, real self.
The beauty of who you are, theessence of who you are never
(36:04):
goes away.
It is not gone.
It is not ruined.
Dr Nat Green (36:08):
Oh, I love that so much.
Very powerful message that eventhough it can feel like things
are being taken away or we'velost, it's always there.
And it's about working out howto tap back into that.
Kathy Rausch (36:22):
Yeah.
Tapping back into it and atfirst just.
Knowing it's there took me along time to even realize that's
what happened as I started to doart again.
It's like it tapped into that,that like that light, I just saw
it like pierced right into thatlittle creative girl.
Like you're still there.
You are still there.
(36:44):
You know, I will tell you it'smade me into a pretty incredible
grandmother because I'm, we'reconstantly being creative and I
let them get dirty and I letthem mess up the house to a
degree.
It's, you know,'cause I don'twant them to ever have it be
buried like I did.
(37:05):
Yay.
Dr Nat Green (37:06):
Yeah.
So as we move to wrapping thisconversation up, where can our
listeners find out more aboutyou and find you online?
Kathy Rausch (37:15):
They can go to Ilovemandalas.com.
I.
That's easy that's good toremember.
I love, and it'sM-A-N-A-D-A-L-A-S.
That's why we say Mandalas ormandalas.
I love mandalas.com.
KathyRausch.com also will pointto it,
Dr Nat Green (37:32):
Yeah, so I'll put that in the show notes with a
link and Yeah.
Yes.
And then, and also on Instagramit's, I_ love mandalas_ and on
Facebook it's just Kathy Rausch.
Excellent.
I'll put all that in there and,and they can get on and connect
with you and, and look at yourbook and yes.
(37:54):
We can all explore this wholenew world of Mandalas.
Yeah, we
Kathy Rausch (38:00):
should, we should.
I would love to coordinate aworkshop in Australia so that,
I'm not trying to get peoplefrom all over doing different
time zones, but that would be.
Lovely.
Dr Nat Green (38:11):
Oh, maybe we could get people to reach out.
Yeah, reach out and connect withus, and we could look at getting
a Mandala workshop up onlinethrough growing tall poppies.
That would be amazing.
Oh my gosh.
That would be so great.
Kathy Rausch (38:24):
Yes.
I mean, look at the poppies.
They're just, they're justmother nature's Mandalas.
I love it.
And just like flowers.
No flowers are the same.
No, Nope.
Two poppies are the same, butthey're poppies.
Mandalas are just like
Dr Nat Green (38:39):
that.
Snowflakes, also snowflakes.
Yes, So one thing I like toalways finish with my guests on
is what do you think youryoungest self would think of
everything you've done in yourlife now?
Kathy Rausch (38:58):
Wow, that's a beautiful question.
I think she would be like way togo.
You did it.
I knew you could do this whenyou were Oh, when I was very
five, my best friend died as shewas coming to my house, she was
hit by a car and died.
(39:20):
You know, that kind of thing.
It happened and, but it didn'ttake away, you know, she would
say.
I am so happy we connectedagain.
I'm so happy.
I am a big part of this life.
You are leading while you'retrying to be an adult.
Wow.
Dr Nat Green (39:40):
You just gave me absolute chills and goosebumps
that really Oh,
Kathy Rausch (39:44):
yay.
Dr Nat Green (39:45):
Hit home that it's never
Kathy Rausch (39:46):
gone.
Your true essence is never gone.
Even if you have to fake it,it's not hard.
Fake it till you make, it's noteasy, but.
And I've learned that there's awonderful website called the Joy
within.org.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it's just a, a wonderfulteacher that I found who, who
really helped me through the,just know it's always there.
It is.
Always there.
Dr Nat Green (40:07):
Beautiful.
What a wonderful note to finishon.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.
Kathy Rausch (40:13):
Oh my gosh.
You're welcome.
It's been, I'm just honored andso pleased to be doing this with
you, and I love your podcast andyou, you have some really,
really helpful, funny, beautifulpeople on your podcast.
It's, it's really great.
Dr Nat Green (40:28):
Thank you and, and your one that we can add to the
list.
You've been an absolute delight.
Thank you so much and I lookforward to talking with you
again soon.
Alright.
Bye-bye.
Have a good night Thanks Kathy.
Bye for now.
Thank you for joining me in thisepisode of Growing Tall Poppies.
(40:51):
It is my deepest hope thattoday's episode may have
inspired and empowered you tostep fully into your
post-traumatic growth, so thatyou can have absolute clarity
around who you are, what mattersthe most to you, and to assist
you to release your negativeemotions.
(41:12):
And regulate your nervous systemso you can fully thrive.
New episodes are published everyTuesday, and I hope you'll
continue to join us as weexplore both the strategies and
the personal qualities requiredto fully live a life of
post-traumatic growth and tothrive.
So if it feels aligned to youand really resonates, then I
(41:35):
invite you to hit subscribe andit would mean the world to us.
If you could share this episodewith others who you feel may
benefit too, you may also findme on Instagram at Growing Tall
Poppies and Facebook, Dr.
Natalie Green.
Remember, every moment is anopportunity to look for the
(41:58):
lessons and to learn andincrease your ability to live
the life you desire and deserve.
So for now, stay connected.
Stay inspired.
Stand tall like the tall poppyyou are, and keep shining your
light brightly in the world.
Bye for.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.