For Such a Time as This

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
it's just, it's nice to have like where I work.
You know we're all Christiansand like the other day I was
talking with the one girl aboutactually her husband is a pastor
.
He's not the senior pastoranymore but it's one in Philly
and yeah, Philly, I think.
But I mean she's like it's justcrazy how much anxiety she's

(00:21):
like I know I shouldn't carrythis anxiety because I've been a
follower my whole life and I'mlike, listen, it is, it is not
your fault.
I said a lot of the times thatis genetic.
And I said you know I wastelling her about people like,
oh, god will save me.
God will say I'm like maybegod's way of saving you or at
least helping you out of thattrench right now is that

(00:41):
medication temporarily.
You know what I mean and right,so at least I was kind of able
to or that person to talk withthe doctor, whoever.
Yes, but it's just nice thatyou're able to.
I mean, we were just freespirited talking about it at
lunch.
Like you can't do thateverywhere you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
That's a benefit of working at the catholic hospital
yeah, yeah, I can exactly thesepeople yeah yeah it's not that
I don't want to.
I just get nervous about it.
But sometimes God's just inthere and I know that I'll be in
bad shape if I don't If youdon't.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder if Esther was that way.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
Well, we'll find out, won't we Dun, dun dun?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Esther yeah, so if you guys don't know, we're going
to talk about Esther tonight.

Speaker 5 (01:29):
Are we on?

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah we're on.
See, you didn't tell me.
Now we're on Minute 30.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
Minute 30.
Well, is everybody enjoying thewarm weather?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, it's been.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Weird, though it's been humid the past few days.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
It has so humid you weather yeah it's been weird,
it's been humid, it has so humidand, like you, don't want to
complain because, coming out ofsix months of winter time, right
so you want to do is complainthat it's warm oh no, I'll just
go to the pool yeah, yeah, butyeah, when I left the house
today at 5 30, it was 72 degreesyeah that's a bit much yeah and
sticky yeah yeah so so for ourlisteners if they don't know

(02:06):
where we're located unitedstates, state of ohio, northeast
ohio and we're just in thatlittle spot where, yeah, we get
like six months of winterclimate, seasonal winter weather
, maybe a month of spring, maybea month of fall, maybe, and a
month of fall Maybe.
And then what like two, maybethree brutal months of?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
humid hot weather, heat and humidity, mm-hmm.
So yeah, we're the only placethat you turn your furnace on in
the morning and your airconditioner on in the evening.

Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, you just never know.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, got to get that chill out.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yep, uh-huh.

Speaker 5 (02:46):
Anything?
Yeah, got to get that chill out.
Yep, yep, uh-huh.
Anything else exciting going on?

Speaker 3 (02:49):
I get a new washer and dryer tomorrow, nice.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
I know the feeling.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
No, it's not excitement, but I'm thankful
that we are blessed that we canafford it.
Yeah, I have.
Our pantry is only large enoughfor the stackable apartment
size.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
Yeah, that's what we have to have too, and the washer
went out.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
We put I think $500 in it 32 days ago.
So when they came back theytold me well, we'll have to
charge another service callbecause our service it's only
for 30 days.
Are you kidding me?
We're 32 days out, but itwasn't the same problem, but it
was another $900 worth ofrepairs.
And it we were 32 days out, butit wasn't the same problem, but
it was another $900 worth ofrepairs, and it's five years old

(03:30):
.
It's just not practical tospend that To spend that.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, $1,400 in 32 days, yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
So we were able to get one in the dent and scratch
section.
Nice, yep, yep.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
For $1,700, and I'm like it's going in.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
You didn't go to macbid and get one.
No, no, I got it from weavers.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
Oh, oh okay can you get appliances at macbid?
Yeah, you can probably you canactually know that fun fact.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
I don't know how to do it.
Michael might know, but you canum, because he was talking
about it briefly one day.
But if you would want to bid onstuff like that, like, say you,
but that's the thing, I don'tknow how to realize what it will
be bidding on, like, say, say,this dryer comes to start
bidding it's a three-day bid orsomething you know, but you can

(04:14):
look at that before you startbidding.
But how do you know it's goingto be bid on?
Do you know what I mean?
So you can go to macbid, lookat it, see all the denser
scratches?
I don't know, you know, but I'mlike I guess you can do that,
but I think that would be verybeneficial if you were living up
closer maybe.
And I mean I don't know, I'veseen washers, I've seen

(04:36):
refrigerators, I think a dryer.
I've seen when I went to pickone.
I picked something up and Iactually seen like a
refrigerator.
Yeah, went to pick one.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
I picked something up and I did.
I actually seen like arefrigerator.
Yeah, so I know that.
Um, it just was to have thatget it from them, because when
you need somebody for repairs.
They're basically the only onesthat can come repair anymore.
It's yeah, I mean, if thatyoung kid is in school wants to
know what to go into, yeah,small appliance repair, yeah,
seriously, seriously, yeah, aneed and um, so it just worked

(05:10):
out and I'm just thankful andyeah, because chase, that's like
one thing he doesn't reallylike he.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
He was able to fix our dryer one time but I think
our uh, our gas stove we hadrecently bought it and I started
doing something with it and Itried to ignite it but all of
them were, like you know,cracked.
I'm like, oh crap, you know,and actually I think it's CJ's
Appliance, it's one of my highschool like friend's dad.

(05:41):
He works on them, but I thinkhe's from Port washington maybe.
But yeah, I was having a hardtime.
I'm like I, who do you call,you know?
Because I could not find anyoneand somehow I think someone
ended up telling me about himand I mean I think it was like
110 bucks to come and do like 30minutes.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
I don't know yeah, but yeah it.
Actually it's not comingtomorrow, it's coming Friday and
I'm leaving for Floridatomorrow, so that's a good thing
.
I'm going to go right into thehot and humid.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Where are you going in Florida?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I'm actually going to Tampa, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Nice.
So I'll be going to Englewoodin mid-July.
It's like that's where Maggie'sat.

Speaker 5 (06:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, she's got uh till Saturday.
She is so ready to come home.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh is she, she is, she's over it.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
Well, it's been a little bit of a tough situation
because she went down there withher friend and the friend's mom
and dad.
Well, the dad wasn't feelingwell before they left, but they
convinced him to go anywaybecause you know you paid for
the flights, all this, you mightas well go when you get down
there.
You can go to the hospital ifyou feel you need to.
Well, that's exactly whathappened.
Found out he had a heart attack.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Oh jeez.

Speaker 5 (06:52):
So they admitted him and now I think he's had two
surgeries within the last weekand a half Out of state and so
instead of I mean which she'sbeen going swimming, going to
the beach, stuff like that.
But she spent a lot of time inthe hospital with her friend,
you know, sitting with her dad,so hasn't been exactly the, you

(07:13):
know, ideal vacation she thoughtit was going to be, so Maggie
could be there for that littlebit.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, you never know.
Yeah, you never know, that'strue.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
But yeah, she is.
She is more than ready to getback home.
She's never been away from hermom this long in her life.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:30):
You know this, far away from her, but I think
overall, yeah, in the end Ithink it'll be good for her.
It was a good experience.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
I was supposed to go to Lido Keys in July with
Clayton the end of July buttheir condo had a lot of damage
from the hurricane and theythought they had everything
ready for inspection.
And they came in there andinspected them all and there is
something with the line to thepool that runs.

(07:58):
The electrical was not donecorrect, so they shut everything
down for them opening.
So the resort wasn't sure thatthey were going to be able to
get somebody in there to do therepairs and then get the
inspection done to be opened byjuly 26th, because he has a
timeshare down there well, I'llbe going to massachusetts next

(08:20):
month.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
all right, gotta bring my home.
She always gets to come homefor a few weeks in July.
Usually it's the entire month.
But you flew last time.
Right, I did.
Are you flying again?
No, I'm driving this time.
How long is the drive?
12 hours, 12, 13 hours Dependson the traffic.
That way, we can do somethingon the way.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
She's a car driver.
She can drive 12 hours, sleeptwo hours and drive 12 hours
back.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
That's rough, though that's getting hard to do.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
I was going to say can we hire you for our Maine
trip?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, that's getting tough.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
Where are you going to Maine Up by Arcadia National
Park?

Speaker 1 (08:54):
You'll have to let me know if you like it, because I
want to go up that way.

Speaker 5 (09:00):
Oh, it's beautiful up that way.
Yeah, this will be our firsttime up that way.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
That snores of Boos Bay, isn't it?
I believe so.
Yeah, I've been up to Boos Bay.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
I think it's around like was it Bangor, I forget
what else, but yeah, so itshould be fun.
Starting to get, I want todrive along the coast, see a lot
of the lighthouses.
I want to do that.
Trying to find some Civil Warstuff in there Found a few
things that might be worthseeing.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Have you heard of Solomon's Island in Maryland?

Speaker 4 (09:31):
No.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
I think it's very historical.
My doctor's going there aroundthe 4th of July and I think he
was a Navy.
I don't know what he did in theNavy.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
Maybe he was a dentist in the Navy

(10:06):
no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
You say it was solomon's island solomon's
island I need to look it up yetbecause I forgot, didn't have
time, like I was telling bethearlier, no time for anything.

Speaker 5 (10:27):
Roger, you joined us.
Hey, roger, How's it going outthere, oh?

Speaker 4 (10:30):
hey, it's lovely A little warm, sticky muggy.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Drink some of your water.
That's the reason I got a water.
Is it open A little bit?
Drink some of it.
I mean you don't have to now,I'm just making sure you're
hydrated.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Just roll back there, Pastor Roger.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
There's not very many left in her fridge, so I don't
want to drink it real fast.
It's not good for you anyway.
Water no.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
I agree, I agree.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
If Beth drinks more than six ounces of water a day,
she's a hey, there's water in mycoffee.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
That don't count.
I've been told that don't count.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Do you need something in your water when you drink?

Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Like a flavor.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, but I still don't drink it because I don't
like it.
It gives me heartburn.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
I know that sounds crazy, but no, I kind of can
relate to that, yeah maybe it'ssomething in the water it goes
down, yeah, it goes down theirown tube, or something, listen,
I've associated with it justdilutes my.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
It does something to all them acids in my stomach,
making them up.
That's my theory, so I don'tdrink it.
It's my story and I'm stickingto it.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Hey Roger, do you remember who we're talking about
?
Yeah, who.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Esther.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, good job.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
I'm surprised you didn't text me one more time.
Who?
Because I almost texted you andbe like just a reminder.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I thought no, I won't be smart, I'm not going to lie,
yeah, last time.

Speaker 5 (12:03):
She asked me like on four different occasions what
are we doing again, jeez?

Speaker 4 (12:10):
I'm the only one supposed to be doing, acting
like that, oh my brain, when youget old and senile and you
can't remember anything.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
I feel like that.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
I wish I was your age again, Sid.
There would be so many thingsthat I would change in my life.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
And you know, I'll say the same thing at your age.
That's the crazy part.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
But you know, I mean, you know, when I was your age I
didn't know the Lord.
So you know, I would definitelychange all that?

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Oh yeah, you know.
You know what the sad thing isis.
I did know the Lord, but I hadwalked away when I was her age.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
You know, I mean we all struggle with things.
You know, I mean, it doesn'tmake any difference what it is,
we all struggle.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, but that's a part of your testimony, beth
Mm-hmm.
Yes, like that's kind of minetoo.

Speaker 5 (13:05):
Mm-hmm mind too well, and that's exactly what we were
talking about.
You know what the bible is.
When you really start studyingit, you realize the jews and
themselves, god's own people howmany times they repeat the same
mistakes and you know they gettheir kingdom back and they, and
then they lose it again andthen something else happens and
they become slaves and they getit back.
Something else happens, they'reexiled again, and just amazing
how many times you know theyhave to go through the same

(13:27):
problems and situations beforeand I'm wondering if you know
and you know, maybe you know wasit documented so much?

Speaker 1 (13:34):
just so we could relate to that like, hey, they
were messing up so much you know, just like you guys are
certainly yeah, yeah and they'regod's chosen people.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah right, you know, don't feel bad, just pick
yourself up and start over againyeah, yeah, they're our example
of don't wait till monday tostart that new diet.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
Do it now, you gotta have, you, gotta skip the
weekend.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
You gotta skip the weekend a day off anyway, one
day anyway a cheat day.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Cheat day, not to change subject.
But your little guy in churchjust said they made my day.
That little hand up praising hewas rocking.
He was, he had it going, thenhe'd get that little finger.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Oh, he loves that finger.
He hears one little tune andhe's like oh, I mean not hands
going up, no matter what.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
He just couldn't wait on music to start, could he?
No, he's got natural rhythmyeah he does.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
My dad has a drum set at the house and my stepmom was
playing with Cooper and she'slike, yeah, you can take these
home, buddy, and I'm like, oh,we're going to need a bigger
house for that.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
What in the soundproof room?
This is your room, Cooper,Right.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, all right, all One of the soundproof room.
This is your room, cooper.
Yes, right.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 5 (14:49):
All right, we ready to get into it.
Yep, let's go, nick, all right,waiting on you.
Okay, so we're going to do thebook of Esther tonight, so let's
try to give a little backgroundto this.
So Esther, the book of Esther,one of the main things that
people bring up about this isthat god himself is not
mentioned at all in this book.
Yeah, so I believe.

(15:09):
For a long time they didn'teven want to include it is that?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
do you know if that's the only book in the bible?
That's like that to myknowledge okay, but I wonder
percent certainty?

Speaker 5 (15:20):
yeah, um, it is the only book other than Ruth that
is named after a woman.
So that's an interesting littletidbit.
Esther becomes queen in 479 BC.
So the book of Esther is inbetween if I don't pronounce
this right, I'm sorry Nehemiaand Job.

(15:42):
So if you're wondering where itis in the Bible, it's in that
period.
So in 586, jerusalem had beendestroyed.
The exiles go to Babylon.
The first exiles return toJerusalem in 538.
The temple is completed in 516.

(16:03):
Xerxes becomes king of Persiain 486, which we'll be talking
about him and then Estherbecomes queen in 479.
So this is definitely a book ofa lot of drama, a lot of
intrigue.
A lot of this would make a good.

(16:25):
This would probably make a goodlittle movie, I think.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:29):
There's a lot of stuff going on here.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
I thought there was a movie made of it.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Well, maybe there is, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
I thought there was Okay.

Speaker 5 (16:36):
Is it called Esther?
Yeah, oh, I'll have to look itup Me too, because I haven't
watched it.
It could be called the Book ofEsther, okay, well, yes, it
could.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
I thought it was One Night with the King, oh there is
One Night with the King.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Was Esther always Esther no.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
No, what was it?

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Hadassah.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
Yeah, Hadassah or Hadassah, that was her real name
.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
And she didn't become Esther until she was queen,
correct?

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Well, I think they changed names Mordecai.
So she wouldn't know, the kingwouldn't know that she was
Jewish.

Speaker 5 (17:15):
Yeah, but she was an orphan.
Her mother and father hadpassed away.
Mordecai will take her in.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Mordecai is her will take her in.
He's a cousin.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
And he takes her in, takes care of her.
Yes, I believe you're right.
I think it is Mordecai thatgives her that name.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
And he worked on the grounds of the.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
He may have been a government official.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 (17:39):
Which is why he will remain so close to Esther when
she becomes queen.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
He's able to go by every day keep a contact with
her.

Speaker 5 (17:51):
Let's see.
So I guess the most importantquestion is well, how?
How does she become queen inthe first place?
Going back to the Xerxes, theyruled over Persia, basically,
but they also ruled over another127 provinces, so they're

(18:13):
really starting to take over alot of territory From India to
Africa.
Yeah, I have in my notes, um,and basically, uh, the queen,
the original queen, um, the kingof Xerxes, um, he, he, it's

(18:34):
crazy to think about this, butwhen they want to show off their
power, or where they're gettingready to go to war, anything
like that, they decide to throwthese banquets.
And you think, well, a banquet,what a few hours.
Everybody brings a covered dishand you know, we all hang out
for a little bit.
No, these banquets can go onfor over 100 days.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
This one says six months.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
Yeah, I think the Bible says it's like a full 180
days.
So they're having this hugebanquet and it's getting to the
point where everybody's drinking, everybody's having a good time
and, for whatever reason, kingXerxes, he wants to show off the

(19:14):
queen, which I believe her nameis like Vashti, queen, vashti
Vashti and he wants to show heroff to all the other people.
Well, there's some debate as towhy she disagreed.
She would not come to thebanquet.
Yeah, so she defies the kingand this is a big deal.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well, didn't he want to show her off, like her whole
body off?

Speaker 5 (19:40):
Well.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (19:43):
I guess let's maybe jump a little bit ahead to
explain things a little bitabout how women were treated.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, at least in this situation.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
So, in order to become the queen, you had to go
through this huge like a youknow Miss USA on steroids or
something you know like, almostlike an American Idol type thing
, or just something wherethey're put through all these
beauty treatments.
They're only allowed to eatcertain foods.
They have to be.
Their whole body is justprepped for this experience.

(20:20):
So their whole existence isbased on pleasing the king.
So their whole existence isbased on pleasing the king.
And, of course, these women.
they're in control of the king's.
I think they call them Enochs,and they're the ones that take
care of the women.
The interesting thing aboutthat is the Enochs, for the most

(20:40):
part, are all castrated.
That's why they can be trusted.
That's why they can be trustedbecause then there's no chance
of anything going on that woulddefile the women or ruin it for
the king.
So these Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
I read too that prepping them is a 12-month
thing.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, that's what I read.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's a whole year process and Esther did you read
that Esther was only 10 months?
Yeah, but Did you read thatEsther was only 10 months?

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yeah, but the part of that reasoning is is in case
they were impregnated bysomebody?

Speaker 5 (21:10):
else yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
So that wasn't labeled as the king.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Huh Interesting.

Speaker 5 (21:20):
Yeah, so you know.
So they go through this crazyprocess.
And so what happens once shedefies the king?
Well, his authority has beenquestioned, and if he lets it go
, of course they're all afraidthat.
Well, okay, it's beenquestioned once it will continue

(21:43):
to be questioned.
Not to mention, they don't wantthis would give women status if
he backed down to her Right.
So in order to keep their status, they have to decide okay,
we're going to have to crown anew queen.
So the process, that 12-monthprocess, begins of bringing all

(22:04):
these virgins in from thesurrounding country, from the
surrounding area, and I don'tknow, I don't know if it says in
there how many actually gothrough this process, but it's
pretty extensive.
And for whatever reason, estheris going to be chosen.

(22:25):
I guess she's very beautifuland this kind of again tells you
what men value in women.
She is incredibly beautiful.
And the other thing about heris I guess she wasn't very
outspoken.
She did exactly as she was toldto do.
She didn't make any specialrequests, she just went through
the process pleasingly and, just, you know, made herself fit for

(22:49):
the king.
So he takes, he takes a specialliking to her and, um, after,
uh, I think a little bit more,uh, you know, scrutinization, uh
, she finally is the one thatgets selected to be the new
queen.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Um, so any, uh like more thoughts on um the thing is
, the other women that eventhough they were never chosen
queen.
They continued there, oh, andwere taken care of because they
were no longer virgins so theywouldn't ever be able to marry
another husband.

Speaker 5 (23:26):
Well, and another part of this is, even though
Esther becomes queen, I believethe king still they call it his
harem he still has relationswith the other women.
They're still and that's theironly purpose.
From what I've read is thatthey're there to fulfill the
desires of the king.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
But there's some of them that he would never, ever
cause again, and so it's.
Yeah, he sees them one time andThey'll never have children,
they'll never have that familyof their own.

Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, and I didn't know like, okay, were these
women?
Were they poor?
Were they orphans as well?
Were they?
Or were they or were theyselected from, say, maybe,
upstanding families?
Was it like a random, or didthey kind of signal out the more
weaker kind of they wereselected beautiful women, Okay,

(24:19):
so it didn't matter where theycame from what their situation
was, as long as they werebeautiful.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
As far as did anyone get like an age for Esther?

Speaker 5 (24:29):
Because there's different viewpoints.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
No, I did not, nowhere that I've read.

Speaker 5 (24:31):
I know that at some point I heard that, like Queen
Vashti, will get her status back.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
And maybe it has something to do with her son, or
they're saying well, maybeEsther died, and so then she was
able to come back and either bequeen again or at least get
some of that status back thatshe had.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, because something said like it could
have spanned from 40 to 80 yearsold, but then somewhere else
said, in a different culture,they were thinking like 12 to 18
years old.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
So I'm like I don't know, I mean, that's something.
I think they did marry awfulyoung at that point.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
Yeah, I'm sure they did One thing that.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
I thought you know they this says she may have been
14.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Six months of myrrh and six months of oil.
But isn't it, frankincense andmyrrh that the three wise men
Yep, yep, yep.
Yep, yep, it just sounds like.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Oh, it may have nothing to do with it, but it
made me catch that that's onceagain the Old Testament and the
New Testament lining up Rightwhen a lot of people don't
realize that it does.

Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
So many different ways.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, mine says she had to complete 12 months of
beauty treatments six monthswith oil of myrrh and six with
perfumes and cosmetics.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (25:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
And then they had a choice of their wardrobe and
jewelry that they would want toput on before they went to the
king and my understanding shewas kind of reserved with what
she chose From what I?
I don't know that I read thator if I heard it on a podcast or
something.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
Yeah, and another important thing to bring up is
it is a total secret that she isa Jew.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yes, yes, that was my first note.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
Nobody knew, yeah, nobody knew so there is getting
along in the story.
There's no indication of whereshe comes from, who she is, so
the king has no idea about herbackground, where she came from,
or does he care?

Speaker 1 (26:31):
I just also have it was she lived in.
Is it Susa?

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
The capital of the Persian Empire, right.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Yep.
So the next point of the story?
Uh, once esther becomes queen,uh, she stays in contact with
her cousin mordecai and, like wesaid, we we can believe that
maybe mordecai was a governmentofficial, something like that

(26:59):
where he could stay close, uh,to the king's circle, to the
kingdom there.
And so it happens, mordecai,he's sitting around the king's
gate just hanging around doinghis thing Maybe he's killing
time on the clock, I don't knowWaiting to go home and he hears

(27:20):
this plot Discovers a plot,discovers a plot that King
Xerxes is going to beassassinated.
So what does he do?
Mordecai tells Queen Estherabout this plot, and so of
course Esther goes to the king,tells him about it, and this

(27:42):
event is written down in therecord book of the annals of the
presence of the king.
So they take note of this.
But at that point they write itdown, but it just kind of gets
forgotten about.
So I don't know if Mordecaireally gets credit at the time.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
I don't think he gets any credit at the time.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
Queen Esther, who in turn reported it to the king,
giving credit to Mordecai.
But maybe she did, and ofcourse the king, with everything
else going on, just forgotabout it, didn't even consider
it.
So, moving on from there, alongcomes Haman, the son of

(28:26):
Hamidatha, who came from thefamily of the Amalekites.
And so if you know anythingabout the Amalekites, I think
it's in Deuteronomy.
These are the people that Godhad commanded to blot out their

(28:47):
memory from under heaven, sothey were enemies of the jews
and god had commanded theircomplete annihilation.
So this is kind of going to belike you know where your past
comes back to haunt you, kind ofthing you know.
So, uh, this is something.
So, even though God isn'tmentioned in this book, you can
tie in all these events to whatis going to happen with this

(29:09):
story.
So you have Mordecai who andthat's the thing, him being a
government official, it seems,at the time before things heat
up, that they don't realize thatMordecai is a Jew either.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
It's not even considered Right.
That's what I was wondering.
I'm like, if he's an official,like a government official,
there's no way that they knowhe's also a Jew.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
So Haman becomes basically King Xerxes right hand
man.
So Xerxes is going to honor himand pay him all these tributes
and, of course, so everybody issupposed to follow suit.
So I don't know what positionHaman would.

(29:57):
I don't know what his titleactually was, but I don't know
if he was like second in commandto the king.
Maybe if something happens tothe king is he elevated to the
throne.
I don't know, but was likesecond in command of the king.
Maybe if something happens tothe king is he elevated to the
throne.
I don't know, but he's rightthere beside Xerxes, in the
power of the Persian Empire.
Well, at some point Mordecai isconfronted with Haman and

(30:20):
Mordecai knows that Haman is adescendant of the Malachites, so
Mordecai will not bow down tohim.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
He will not show him any respect.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
Mordecai will only worship God.
He will only kneel to God andeven though he's doing his duty
within the kingdom he's doinghis job and he does the things
that the Persian kingdom tellshim to do the one thing that he
will not do is worship anybodyelse but God, so he feels that
kneeling down to Haman would beyou know, yeah, yeah, so here

(30:56):
starts the rub between Mordecaiand Haman.
Mm-hmm, between Mordecai andHaman.
So Haman does discover thatMordecai is a Jew.
So now they know they are swornenemies Based on the past,
based on everything that'shappened within the Bible

(31:16):
between the Amalekites and theJews.
Those two are sworn enemies.
So day after day, haman expectsMordecai to bow down to him,
and every time Mordecai respondsthe same way he just will not
bow down to him.
So this just enrages Haman themore and more it goes on, and so

(31:38):
it's funny.
He goes home and he talked tohis wife about it, of all people
, and he's like you know, whatshould I do with this guy?
Like he just no matter what Ido, he's just going to continue
to defy me.
So more or less, I think it'shis wife's just like well, why
don't you?

Speaker 2 (31:53):
hang.
Why don't you?

Speaker 1 (31:53):
just kill him.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
You know, just get rid of him and, like most men do
and do we listen to our wives,whether it makes good sense?

Speaker 1 (32:01):
or not.
Why didn't I think of that?

Speaker 5 (32:02):
Yeah, why didn't I think of that?
Yeah, he's got all this power,you know.
So, yeah, he takes his wife'sadvice, but he's going to take
it a step farther.
Because he has that hatred inhis heart for Jews, based on
what happened to his people.
Not only is he going to takeout Mordecai, but he's going to

(32:22):
send out an order to take outevery Jew in every province.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Who's that sound like ?

Speaker 5 (32:30):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
Another guy starts with H.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah, exactly so.
Yeah, he's going to call thatorder out and, of course, this
is going to to in turn, enrageMordecai.
So, Mordecai, he is going totear his clothes, change into
sackcloth, cover himself withashes and he's going to begin to

(32:58):
protest this movement.
And the cool thing about thething that I like about mordecai
is he just kind of becomes likethis.
He kind of becomes like aspecter where, no matter where
hayman goes, uh, mordecai isjust standing there just staring
at him just defying him youknow just his presence alone.

(33:21):
you know he, just day after day,he just just wants Haman to
know.
Like you know, I see you, Iknow what you're doing, I don't
appreciate it.
I don't appreciate it.
You know, and I'm not afraid ofyou.
I'm not afraid of you Eventhough you have all this
authority.
You know my authority standswith God and I don't fear you.
I think that's pretty cool.
Yeah, because I think that'spretty cool, yeah, because I

(33:41):
think there's even somethingthere where he says he doesn't
really say anything.
He won't say anything, he just,he just stares at him.
And I kind of thought aboutJesus when he goes in to be
tried, you know, for a long timeJesus doesn't say anything
either.
He stays silent.
So now it's like they're goinghead to head.

(34:03):
So now it's like they're goinghead to head.
And now that Mordecai knowsthat Haman is going to follow
through on his promise todestroy all the Jews, well, now
he's got to use Esther, he's gotto bring Esther in to try to
turn the tide, to try to getEsther to convince the king not

(34:29):
to go along with Haman's plan todestroy the Jews.
And she's a little reluctant todo this because, again, in
custom, even though she's thequeen, she cannot approach the
king without the properetiquette, without the proper
permission.
She has to go through the samechannels as everybody else and
if you approach the king whenyou have not been summoned, you

(34:51):
could be put to death.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well, she says anyone who appears before the king in
his inner court without beinginvited is doomed to die, unless
the king holds out his goldscepter.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Mm-hmm, what if he lost it?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
You're doomed, mm-hmm .

Speaker 4 (35:05):
Mm-hmm, so what if he lost it?
You're doomed, everybody'sdoomed.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
So now she has a.
She has a big decision to makebecause she knows she's risking
her life to do this.
But I, what does?
What does Mordecai say to her?

Speaker 4 (35:23):
You were made for such a time as this.

Speaker 5 (35:26):
Pretty much.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
I say that to my son and his wife, you know, because
they say they don't want tobring any children into this
world and I say that that babywould be brought in at such a
time as this.
And I thought where did I everhear that?
Why do I say that?
Well, right here, from the bookof Esther.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, I know and you hear Michael say it all the time
I'm like where is that comingfrom, though, Like I know it's
somewhere in the Bible, butwhere?

Speaker 5 (35:51):
Well, and there's that lesson that when you know
what you're supposed to do, whenyou have a responsibility, when
you know God's plan and youdecide you're going to put it
off, you're going to delay,you're going to delay, you're
going to try to deny it umusually it's always going to
come back to itching even harder, yeah reality is going to set
in it's you, you can't, you know.
You can try to go around themountain or whatever you want to

(36:14):
do, but it's gonna it's gonna.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
God's plan is going to come to fruition no matter
what you do.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
Yes and he basically tells her, almost to put I don't
know if he's trying to put fearinto her heart, but he says do
not think that because you arein the king's house, you alone
of all the Jews will escape.
So he's saying, just because ofyour status, of all the things
you have acquired, because theking has chosen you, does not
mean that you're going to escapethat fate.
Your fate will be the same asthe lowest person on the totem

(36:43):
pole.
You know of our race of people.
So you know, you really don'thave a choice.
It's either die honorably ordie with regret, knowing that
you didn't try.
And so that inspires her, thatshe's like okay, go gather

(37:04):
together all the Jews who are inSusa and fast for me.
Do not eat or drink for threedays, night or day, and I, my
maids, will fast as you do, andwhen this is done, I will go to
the king, even though it isagainst the law, and if I perish
, I perish, and if I perish, Iperish.
So but Esther just doesn't justgo into it, you know with no

(37:30):
plan.
Like la-di-da.
La-di-da yeah, so she's got tothink about it a little bit.
It's like I got to be a littlecrafty about this.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
And not to mention like she pondered and fasted and
prayed like should I do this?
You know, yeah, yeah.
And then she finallyered andfasted and prayed like should I?

Speaker 5 (37:45):
do this.
Yeah, you know, yeah.
And then she finally decidedshe takes her time, she plans
well, she prays about it and Ithink she uses the very.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
She uses the very same qualities and circumstance
that got her there in the firstplace.
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
She knows like when the king sees her.
That's why he chose her in thefirst place.
So she pretty much just setsherself right up to where he
will approach her.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Right.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
Instead of her, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yes, approaching him.

Speaker 5 (38:16):
Yes, she'll stand off in the distance In her royal
robes, yep, and all the thingsthat she knows that he can't
resist her royal robes, yep, andall the things that she knows
that, yes, he can't resist uh,and of course he, he, uh comes
over and and he just, I mean he,he don't even uh, he goes
overboard my opinion he's likeyou know what does esther ask?

(38:37):
You know he's like I'll giveyou anything you want.
I'll give you half the kingdom.
It'll be granted.
Just tell me what you want I'mthinking like how does he just
how?

Speaker 2 (38:44):
did he go right to that?

Speaker 5 (38:44):
yeah, yeah yeah I mean, she just might I don't
know, want a bowl of milk orsomething might just want some
water.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
That beth hates cheerios that's nasty.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Right at my nightstand and of course she's
like if the king, if you find mein great favor and if I please
you so much, come tomorrow tothis banquet and then I'll tell

(39:30):
you all about it.
So again, he's like and bringhayman, yeah, bring hayman, yep,
yep, and bring hayman alongwith you.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
So again, it's almost like she's she's using his own
words against him.
Like you know, I'm beautiful.
You know I'm everything you'veever wanted.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
So if you, if you've, you know, and I'll say most of
the time I hate when girls arelike that, but she's using it
for a good, good purpose, I'llsay that yeah, so she's got him
on the hook, um, uh, so whereare we at?

Speaker 5 (40:00):
okay, so, so, hay, he's, he's in high spirits
because, um, he feels that, well, he's going to start to get the
honor, you know, that's beenbestowed upon him and that's the
only thing.
That's important to Haman isthat everybody looks at him,
everybody thinks he's, he's ontop of the totem pole, you know.

(40:20):
So he's, he feels he's rightwhere he wants to be, um, and,
of course, what does he do?
He's thinking about mordecai.
He's like, okay, we're gonna,we're gonna do this right, we're
gonna, we're gonna build thiselaborate gallows, set of

(40:40):
gallows, to hang mordecai on, sothe whole province can see you.
You know, uh, what's going tohappen, not only to him but to
the rest of the Jews.
So he's going to be thatexample, uh, that's going to
kind of set off a new set of uhcelebrations and banquets and
everything to honor him.
So it's all going to be aboutHaman, um, but an interesting

(41:03):
thing happens the night beforeis, the king is having trouble
sleeping.
So, like most people we woulddo today, well, you get a book
out and you read so you can fallasleep.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
So, no nick, I think that's just you, you know, keep
me up all night well andhonestly, like I was saying at
the beginning of the podcast,like the girl who has anxiety
and everything she said, likefor her she goes to a different
location, like and I'm like yeah, I kind of do that too like, if
you can't fall asleep in yourbed, she goes couch type of
thing, but yeah, I guess that'sa good idea.

Speaker 5 (41:36):
I'll have to try that next time, or just find, like
the and it's almost like it says, like they're going to find the
most boring thing.
So they get out the history ofhis kingdom so they can start
reading it.
And it just so happens I don'tknow if this is part of Esther's
plan for them to read thisparticular volume or whatever.

(41:57):
But in that what they read tohim is how Mordecai uncovered
this assassination plot.
And the king gets intrigued andhe's like, really?
He's like, well, who is he?
Did we ever do anything forthis guy?
Was he ever honored at all?
Who is he?
So it's at that point that it'srevealed that it's Mordecai and

(42:20):
he's like, well, we gotta honorthis guy.
So it just so happens, at thatmoment, here comes Haman
strolling along and talk abouttiming.
Talk about timing.
The king says, well, who's inthe court?

(42:42):
And his attendant says, well,h's in the court.
And his attendants say, well,haman's standing out there.
So the king says, well, bringhim in.
And when Haman entered, the kingasked Haman well, what should
be done for this guy, mordecai,that the king delights so much
that he feels he should honorhim.
But king didn't say he didn'tsay Mordecai.

(43:04):
He didn't say he didn't sayMordecai, he didn't say who it
was.
And when the King said it, hethought, because he saw Haman,
that he was talking about Haman.
So Haman's like, hmm, well,this is a perfect opportunity.
So he's like who is there thatthe King would rather honor than

(43:26):
me, for the man the kingdelights to honor?
Have them bring a royal robethe king has worn and a horse
the king has ridden, one with aroyal crest placed on his head.
Then let the robe and horse beentrusted to one of the king's
most noble princes, to one ofthe king's most noble princes.
Let them robe the man the kingdelights to honor and lead him

(43:47):
on the horse through the citystreets, proclaiming before him
this is what is done for the manthe king delights to honor.
So the king's like well, hey,right now, get going, get the
robe, get the horse, go findMordecai.
And Haman has to be like excuseme Speechless.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Go find who Excuse me .

Speaker 5 (44:08):
I mean his stomach, yeah his pit of his stomach just
must have dropped out.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
That'd be a real kicker, wouldn't it?

Speaker 5 (44:14):
Right, yeah, so the very man that you are planning
to, and then, deflate you, thevery man you are planning to
hang the next day to honoryourself.
Now you gotta honor the guyyeah so plot twist plot twist,
mic drop.

(44:37):
So of course hayman goes homeand he's just, you know he's
beside himself and he's just,you know, he's beside himself.
So but he's got to do it, he'sgot to follow through with it.
Next day, of course, it's thebanquet.
King's there, esther's there,and once again, you know, the

(45:02):
king's just swooning over Esther.
And he asked her a second time,like well, what is it you want?
You know I'll give you anything, I'll give you half the kingdom
if you want it.
And so this time she says if Ihave found favor with you, o
king, and if it pleases yourmajesty, grant me my life and
spare my people.

(45:22):
This is my request, for I andmy people have been sold for
destruction and slaughter andannihilation.
If we had merely been sold asmale and female slaves, I would
have kept quiet, but because nosuch distress would justify
disturbing the king.
And then because he lovesEsther so much, and then because

(45:47):
he loves esther so much and I'mgoing to assume it's at this,
point that esther tells her thatshe's a jew, right?
yeah, yes, that he's like.
Well, who is, who is this guy?
You know who would dare do sucha thing?
You know, to my yeah, yeah tomy beautiful, my beautiful queen
, queen and her people, yeah and, of course, esther reveals that
it's Haman and Haman's standingthere when she reveals it and

(46:11):
he, basically, at this point theking's gonna be like not a
second's hesitation Okay, yep,we're gonna hang him, we're
gonna hang Haman, and Haman begsEsther for his life yep, we're
gonna hang him, we're gonna hanghayman.
And uh, hayman, hayman begsesther for his life.

(46:31):
He falls on his knees, falls onher, begs for his life.
Well, guess what?
Now you just committed yoursecond mistake, because when the
king comes back in, guess what?
Hayman's clinging to his queen,touching her, and that is
another insult.
So now it's, you know it's over.
So Haman is going to go to thegallows and get hanged on the

(46:54):
very same gallows that he hadbuilt at his house.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
For.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Mordecai.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
For Mordecai.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (47:01):
And so there you have , once again, god's people in
the most unusual situation yeah,yeah that come out on top, come
out on top yeah, like you would.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
You wouldn't have thought that that would have
happened from the beginning, youknow?
No, you wouldn't have thoughtthat that would have happened
from the beginning.
You know, no, you wouldn't havethought that that would have
been the outcome.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
Well, you know, and it's another one of those things
where how could, when the kinggives that order, when Haman
gives that order because I thinkthey will mention this in the
aftermath is like as soon asthat, when a king made an order,
so anything that he signed, hesigned it with his ring, he

(47:47):
would stamp it.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
And once he signed that order, even the king
himself could not rescind thatorder.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Huh, yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:56):
So it was a pretty serious thing.
So it goes out into theprovince and you know so it's
going to be almost impossible toprevent this.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
It's done, it's done, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (48:08):
And not even the king will go back on his word.
So for him to, through therequest of Esther to rescind an
order was almost unheard of.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
You know.
So again, you look at the storyof you go all the way back to
the Amalekites.
The story really begins therein Deuteronomy and it's going to
follow all the way through tothis next event, and without
that event you don't have uh,this confrontation between uh

(48:43):
haman and mordecai um and reallyyou know it's the book of
esther, but I think maybe itshould have been called the book
of mordecai, because yeah hereally is kind of the.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
You know, he's kind of the hero of the story he's
kind of the the one everything,had he not prompted her, had he
not prodded her to yeah do whatshe did.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
The mascot of yeah of the book of esther like I said,
he's just uh, it's, I mean it'ssurprising, I guess, when I
think about I'm like what'ssurprising?
He just didn't lose his jobwhen he yeah, when he started to
defy hayman.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
They could have just got rid of him I think it's
baffling that they didn't knowhe was Jewish all along.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (49:24):
So I don't know if Haman had to start digging stuff
up and be like, okay, where'sthis guy?

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Probably Where'd he come from.
I don't like this guy.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
And to find out that he's basically your blood's
sworn enemy just makes it evenmore interesting, but it your
blood's sworn enemy.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
Just makes it even more interesting.
But it propels the whole storyto reverse the destruction of
the Jewish people, because atthat point they had been exiled,
some had went back to Judea,some had went back to Jerusalem,
but most of them had moved onto other provinces.
So they were divided peoplewhich any anytime you're divided

(50:05):
, you're weaker.
Yeah, so the jewish people, ina sense, could have just became
extinct.
They become, become such aminority that they may, at some
point they may not have existedin its purest form, but through
all this they're saved, they'repeople like a turnaround, yeah
yeah, but it took so many.

(50:26):
Well, of course it took estherin doing something that you know
, was like that was, that was arisk, that was quite the risk.
You know, and, but I will giveher credit.
I think she did have a good, agood deal of like calculation.
She knew how to go about it.
Like I said, she took her time,she prayed about it, but I
think she knew her king well.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (50:44):
Like she knew what she could.
What she could pull off whatshe could pull off.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
And I think she gained a lot of confidence from
that and I think it was justkind of like in the beginning
how she got to be queen.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
She never overstepped she didn't push too hard, she
didn't right, she knew her place.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
Yeah yeah, she just went through it step by step.
She stayed calm and she justworked through the problem, as
opposed to you.
Know, she just go right to kingand start begging yeah uh, when
you know, before she becamequeen, she didn't try to be
flashy, she didn't try to, youknow, really get his attention
doing this or doing that, whichI'm sure maybe some of the girls

(51:24):
really tried hard, but she just, she just was who she was, yeah
, and she was just honest and Ithink that's, that's how she was
able to have such an advantage.
She was true to herself, trueto her God and her people, and
that's what made it work for her.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
One thing I found interesting with listening to
different pastors talk aboutthis story and do teachings on
it.
When Esther went in to the kingand he put the scepter out to
her, he was granting her mercyand grace.
I read that Just as Christ withhis outstretched hand gives
granting her mercy and grace.
I read that, as christ, withhis outstretched hand, gives us
our mercy and grace, huh which Imean when you think about it,

(52:08):
that's, you can make thatcomparison.

Speaker 5 (52:12):
But the persians, they were not godly people no,
no so again, it's like god iseven using people not of his own
, not godly, not of his own.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Not godly, not of his own, but he's still using them
To get the job done.
Yeah, they don't realize, he'llstill use you.

Speaker 5 (52:23):
Even if you're like I don't believe in God, I don't
want any part of the church orwhatever it's like, well, guess
what?
God still wants part of you,yeah.
And if he's going to you know,grant her that and just as
Christ is, so in love with us.
Yep, yeah, yep.

(52:47):
If our, if our hearts are inthe right place, he will truly
grant anything that we ask.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
And that is a good point.
Like you said, nick.
Like well, just because doesn'tmean he's still not going to
use you.
That's where he came from.

Speaker 5 (52:58):
So whether you, want to deny it or not.
It's like, well, you know youmight.
Yeah, you won't have all thegrace and favor you know that
you could be having on earth butguess what?
You're still part of the planYep Whether you want to be or
not.
You might be demoted to thelowest you know denomination of
what it's going to turn out tobe, but eventually, though, yeah

(53:21):
, you will serve your truepurpose.
That's just the way it's goingto go, and uh that's.
This is a perfect example ofthat.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
Yeah, um how long do you think?
How long do you think thiswhole from the first chapter to
the to the eighth chapter?
How long do you think in timethat took?

Speaker 5 (53:41):
I say it was quite a few years, I think it was.
I don't think it was like.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
It wasn't a couple weeks, I don't think it was like
90 days.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
I truly think it had to be over the course of time.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
I mean because I would think, even though I mean
you know, for Esther to know theking that.

Speaker 5 (54:01):
Well, yeah, I was going to say, even though, to
know how to approach him.
Yeah, yeah, Even though she wasreally beautiful and she had
all the qualities he desired,she really got to know her king
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Right.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
And I think over time she probably gained a lot of
respect because I don't unlikeVashti, you know she never
defied him, you know, and Ithink she just had those
qualities of you know she notthat she knew her place, but I I
think she showed a differentkind of uh strength that he

(54:34):
appreciated, like I think sheand I don't know, I don't know
if she had any like specialservices.
She was as queen.
I don't know if there werecertain things that she did that
maybe were like he really gotto the point where I just like
the way she operates, shehandles her position.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
well yeah.
You know to where he he in turn, even though he may have, as a
king, being in that day and age,he would never have said to
anybody else yeah hey, I I seeher as my equal I appreciate he
may have seen her as his equalyeah, and that could be why she
got away with well, especiallyyeah like all the newer

(55:15):
providences that they weretaking over and stuff, like
maybe at that point, you know,he was kind of like maybe she
can kind of govern all that.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
That's kind of where my brain was going.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
I don't know if he ever counseled her, because he
didn't allow her to live andmost of the time they were
beheaded at that time.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:37):
And reading this again.
I read this and I go yeah, yeah.
And reading this again, I readthis and I go, yep, this is
another perfect example of howthe world was before Jesus came
along.
Yes, this is a very cold, hard,cruel world, especially for
women, you know, but men as well.
I mean there is really, thereis no love in anything.
It is all about power, control,war and, let's face it,

(56:03):
pleasure.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
Yeah, right, yeah you know.

Speaker 5 (56:05):
That's the reason a lot of these kings are taking
over these territories.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
Because they want the power, they want the control,
they want the pleasure, mm-hmm,they want as much as they can
get.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
For as long as they can get it.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
And that's really the only thing they're after.
Um, you know, it was kind ofjust the same way when we were
reading about jonah and you know, you look at all these kingdoms
and all these kings and youthink, man, these guys, there's
some terrible people and there'sthere's really no good
qualities now in this king.
You can you kind of maybe gleamthere's, maybe maybe he's not

(56:37):
such a bad guy, right, you know,given the benefit of the doubt,
he might he might be maybebetter than most, um, but yeah,
it's a, it's a, you know,there's, there's not really, uh,
before jesus comes along, youjust you don't have very many
other than god's love himselfand him trying to, you know, get

(56:58):
people to see his love and walkin his light.
The reality of the world in thehuman form is really cold and
dark.
There's just not much redeemingquality in the human form,
because they just won't, they'rejust not interested in it,
which is well.
That's why God has to keepdoing what he's doing, example

(57:19):
after example, after example, Isay over and over and over again
.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Oh no, that's not what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (57:27):
So we could go, you know, of course the Jews are
delivered.
They have their own set ofbanquets and celebrations and
all those things.
But yeah, they are deliveredand the Jews triumph again,
things um.
But yeah, they are deliveredand the jews triumph again.
And I I did find theinteresting thing I found about
it is the jews will go out andthey will strike down all their

(57:48):
enemies really they becomepowerful again.
They go, strike down all theirenemies and they're killing
people left and right.
I mean they're really showingforce, but the in the Bible they
say their one redeeming qualityis they never lay their hands
on the plunder.
So I don't know what that meansexactly.
I mean it's like so they killpeople but they don't take their

(58:09):
possessions.
They don't.
Yeah, I couldn't really discern.
Like okay, why is that like aredeeming quality that you know,
did you not?
You know you didn't.
You didn't do it.
For that reason you do.
You did it just to destroy yourenemies, which was the

(58:30):
honorable thing to do.
So therefore, you don't do.
You don't perform any of theother disgraces that people
would normally perform inwartime.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
I just now.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Would that be Hebrew or Jewish?

Speaker 5 (58:53):
Like, as far as the translation goes, like if I'm,
it would be Hebrew, wouldn't itHebrew, I think so that's my
thought Okay, hebrew, I think so.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
That's what I thought Okay.
So the Hebrew word could beeither spoil, plunder I'm not
even going to say the other oneor a body part.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
Well, yeah, the spoils of war are always.
Well, you take the enemy'spossessions, you take their food
, you take their equipment.
You take anything that's usefulor that you can take to honor
yourself.
So maybe that's what it means.
Like they destroyed theirenemies, but that was their only
true purpose and they stuck tothat.
They didn't do they didn't burn.
They didn't burn, you know,people's houses down or destroy.
They didn't destroy anythingother than the people themselves

(59:34):
.
You know where they're swornenemies, but yeah, they, they,
uh, they go hard.
I guess you they, they, uh,they go hard.
I guess you know they go hard.
And and, uh, they go allthrough them, provinces and, and
maybe that's like, maybe thatwas because the King couldn't
rescind the order, maybe thatwas the only thing you could do
is like, okay, well, now youhave the King's permission to go

(59:55):
out into the province andanybody that's an enemy of your
people, feel free to wipe themout until there was no enemies
left this says.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
This word is used in the book of esther to describe
the wealth that the jews inpersia were permitted to take
after defending themselves.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
But yeah, and it says time again that, uh, they
didn't do that.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Let me go.
I'm never going to fight.
Can't find it now Because Iwon't pay for NLT here.
I got to go watch my free game.

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
Well, and I think another main point of this is,
it's just a reminder of god'sfaithfulness.
It's just a reminder that, evenin the darkest times, when you,
when you think that you'vetotally lost control of the
situation, when you, when youthink that your time has passed,
uh, god's still in control ofthe situation and it may and it
may be years before you seesomething come to fruition.

(01:01:04):
You're not going to have longto wait if you're waiting with
the Lord.
It may seem as though it couldbe a lifetime waiting for
something to pass, but God's incontrol of it, no matter how

(01:01:25):
dark things look.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Going back to the scepter and God's outstretched
hands, it took me to Hebrews4.16.
So let us come boldly to thethrone of our gracious God.
There we will receive his mercyand we will find grace to help
us when we need it the most.

(01:01:47):
So she did.
She walked in there withconfidence.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
Yeah, yeah, she sure did.
Yeah, I mean, at first she wasa little shaky, you know, but I
think Mordecai said the rightthing and kind of just laid it
out there and she's like yep,you're exactly right, this is.
I have been born for a timesuch as this and the result
could be the same no matterwhich way I go, so I might as
well go with honor and withintegrity and trying to do the

(01:02:12):
right thing for my people andfor God.
Yeah Dawn, you look like youwere going to say something.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Well, my footnotes say we said how long for the
book of Esther.
It says about 10 years, From483 BC and concluded in 473 BC.
So just about 10 years.

Speaker 4 (01:02:31):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
I just listened to this Elizabeth Elliot, an older
pastor.
I listened to her podcast andshe was talking about marriage
and she was just saying it takesfive years for a woman to truly
know her husband.
So she was well into thatmarriage.

Speaker 5 (01:02:58):
Well, and it had to take a lot of.
For me, it's hard to imagineyou know if you're you're the
queen, right, and then you stillsee the king with other women.
You know what's going on andyou would truly feel like what
kind of position is this right?
So for her to keep that kind ofyou know integrity and you know
her, yeah and there's never anymention of children.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
No, no, so yeah and which makes you wonder how maybe
she was actually reallyinvolved with the political and
government part of it, becausemaybe she didn't have time to be
a caretaker for the children.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
I don't know, yeah you know, you don't know, um,
but she does die at some point,like I said, and uh, I think
queen vashti does come back andget some of her.
So I don't know if esther maybedied young, so there wasn't
that opportunity to havechildren I read something that I
think it said she died like at28 or something.

(01:03:59):
So her reign might have beenvery short, but just enough to
fulfill her purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Now is there a biblical that said that Vashida
comes back.

Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
I did read that somewhere, but I would have to
go back and I don't know if Ican find that again.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Well, and then isn't there a Jewish holiday, that is,
purim?

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
Purim Purim yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
That is celebrated every year.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
Yeah, yep, where was that?
I know I read it somewhere.
I swear I didn't make it upthat's okay, I'm not calling you

(01:04:52):
out.
I mean, I just wondered if itwas like mentioned down the road
it's okay to say you don't know, so I got a few questions down
the road.
It's okay to say you don't know, so I got a few questions.
But did anybody have any otherthoughts or anything they wanted
to bring up or anything Imissed in that whole thing there
?

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Listen, my whole thing on this story is just that
scepter in God's outstretchedhand.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
We can tell.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
That's really something that jumped out at me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
And it's probably going to jump out to a lot more
people who listen.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
Right, that's the great thing about it, because
you can take one verse, just onepart of it, and you can get a
whole.
See, that could be a wholeprogram in itself.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
You could take that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:42):
That's the one thing that I wish more people
would—when they try to discreditthe Bible, when they try to
discredit the whole thing, justtry to not see these things.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
Because if you read this long enough and you follow
through long enough, you, youwill.
There's just so much to begained, there's so much to get
out of it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
And then they then flip him right to Hebrews four,
16, you know.
Go boldly before the Lord'sthrone.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Beth, there's a picture.
It's been like um, like they'restarting to make it on canvases
, like 17 by 20 canvases, butit's a scripture and it looks
like a bunch of rainbows.
But it's a scripture from theOld Testament and it links to a
scripture in the New Testament.
Oh wow, and I think you wouldbe very interested to see that.

(01:06:36):
Like there's so many likeintermingled, it's really neat.

Speaker 5 (01:06:40):
Here it is.
Ancient greek documents callxerxes wife a maestress who was
probably a greek form of vashti.
So, uh, vashti was deposed in484, 48, but she is mentioned
again in ancient records as thequeen mother during the reign of

(01:07:03):
her son.
I can't pronounce this oneeither Artaxes, artaxes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Who succeeded?

Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
Xerxes.
So the next king is going to beVashti's son.
So toward the end of Xerxesreign, either Esther died or
Vashti was able, through her son, to regain the influence she
had lost.
So it must've been like I said.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
it must've been Cause it still would have what the
reign still would have went tothe next, the first, oldest son,
Wouldn't it?
I mean, didn't that's how italways went, whether the queen
was alive or not, or?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
right or maybe she just got more in.
Maybe she got more popular inthe government eye like
government point of view.

Speaker 5 (01:07:54):
I, because her son was king he's king, then xerxes
has to be dead kings oh yeahdead so well, when you think
about it, I mean for queenvashti, she's got some good
qualities too.
I mean, like she's like toldthe king, like I'm not doing
this, I'm not going to be yourwell, and the thing is, I'm not
showboating for all you men,because they even said she may

(01:08:14):
have been pregnant at the timeand they're like she didn't want
to show herself off as beingpregnant or putting herself in
any of those situations intoheavy drinking, yeah yeah, right
, oh yeah so, and some of thosethings that were done in the
king's court weren't alwaysappropriate yeah, we can't even
imagine what these parties werelike
she may have knew what yeah, shewas just standing up saying

(01:08:36):
absolutely not, I'm not gonna,you know, I'm not gonna do that.
So yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
She had some good qualities too, um yeah, she was
actually pretty courageous, just, you know, to stand up to him
and not go the fact that he justlet her go and said well, your
punishment is.

Speaker 5 (01:08:54):
Well, I'll just pick another queen was probably
pretty.
So maybe the guy wasn't so bad.
You know, maybe of all thekings out there, he was more
likable the most.
Guy wasn't so bad, you know,maybe of all the kings out there
, he was more likable the mosthe wasn't a complete you know
like, just you know, I'm gonnakill somebody and you know, just
dispose of them.
So yeah, maybe maybe he wasn'tso bad.
Um, um, let's see how.

(01:09:23):
About this one?
When we feel that our personalauthority is being questioned,
how can we use God's own lovefor us help deal with that
situation?
So somebody really comes at you.
Like you tell them to dosomething, say like me, I'm in a
management position maybe youknow you're in charge of certain

(01:09:44):
things and you tell somebody todo something they just come
back with I ain't doing that, Iain't doing anything you tell me
to do.
How do you, how can you handle?
You know that you know, pushback of your personal authority,
because it's very.
In those situations, what mostof us want to do is well, we

(01:10:04):
yell.
So many questions our authority.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Our flesh comes out.

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
We can do it with our children.
You know our children say youknow they're not going to clean
up the room.
You know, a lot of times thefirst thing you do is you want
to yell.
You know you want to show yourauthority with strength.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
Yeah, is you want to yell?

Speaker 5 (01:10:19):
you know you want to, you want to show your authority
with strength, yeah, you know,with physical strength, with
fear, all those things.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
So well, I'll tell you a parenting advice that
might help, because I readsomewhere someone's trying to
yell less and they said, youknow, distract something else,
then redirect I've heard thatbefore maybe even like distract
them with like a, a story oflisten.

(01:10:45):
Hey, I know you don't want todo this, but da, da, da, da, da
da.
And then, I don't know,redirect their point of view.
I don't know.
I read that earlier today.

Speaker 5 (01:10:54):
I'm like, well, that kind of well, maybe you could
kind of turn that into.
Instead of using distract, well, you can say you could.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
You could pray about it, yes, yes, that's a good idea
, you're reflecting it yeah andthen, what was the second one?

Speaker 5 (01:11:07):
um redirect redirect so through that prayer you can
come to a better decision abouthow to handle it.
As opposed to corporalpunishment, yes you know and you
can use uh an example, or yeah,yeah uh, you can get somebody
to see why it is important.

(01:11:28):
Well, it was pastor michaelsaying about his daughter and
having the guinea pig and yeah,and that's like she had to make
her see why it was important toclean her room, not just because
I told you not just because Isaid so but you need to see like
through, through god's plan,through god's love for us.
Why is it important that we,that we do the things that we do
, that we have structure, thatwe follow through on things that

(01:11:48):
we don't you know, just saywe're going to do something and
then we get what we want.
We instantly just forget allabout.
You know what we're supposed todo.
Yeah, um, so that's what Ithink, you just.
And it's hard because I'lladmit, like um, I don't really
have a relationship with my sonbecause he has decided like he

(01:12:09):
is going to live his own life.
He's got his own ideas aboutwhat he wants to do.
It doesn't quite line up withwith what I think, Um, but I
never had a conversation withhim where I wasn't trying to do
that.
And so sometimes I think, Um,but I never had a conversation
with him where I wasn't tryingto do that.
And so sometimes I think, well,that failed, that approach
failed, Like I.
You know I should have.
Maybe I should have yelled moreyou know, maybe I should have,

(01:12:32):
and there were times where itdid get the best of me and I did
yell but I'd always come.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
I thought the louder I was, they heard me better.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
But I would always come back with trying to be like
okay you know I'm not justdoing this because I want to be
a pain and make your lifedifficult.
Yeah, I'm trying to do this sowhen you grow up you'll be a
good person.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
I'm doing this because I love you, but is it in
Proverbs, where it says a softword or a soft answer?
Yeah, turneth away wrath I'mtrying to be Danny.

Speaker 5 (01:13:01):
Tanner over here it's like and now that we don't have
that relationship, I think well, you know, maybe I didn't.
I didn't do what I was supposedto do.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
It'll come around.

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
But then right, the more I think about it is if, if,
if he came back today, I stillwouldn't let the same thing
slide.
Right, right I would still havethat same approach.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
Yeah, right, right I would still have that same
approach yeah, yeah, because,yeah, because you have your firm
foundation, you stand on yourrock and yeah, and the point is
you, you till your dang die.

Speaker 5 (01:13:30):
Sometimes you got to work on people to hopefully they
they get it right, that they'llstart going in the right
direction.
It's all you can do you know ifyou just continue to yell.
And most time I tell mostpeople I was like you know, when
you yell at somebody, like likemanaging at work, I don't use
the approach of never yelling atsomebody because, guess what,
usually you're the only onethat's upset.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Yeah, yeah, so it just makes it worse.

Speaker 5 (01:13:59):
So I just I've never, I have never profited from.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:14:03):
From that example of just getting mad and trying to
show my anger and personalauthority.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:14:10):
So I'm always hoping that you know there's these
young kids.
It's like I've just told myself, like you are going to have to
constantly work with these kidsto teach them any sort of
discipline and respect Integrity.
Yeah, and all those things tohopefully one day it'll click to
where they'll go, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
I get it Right.

Speaker 5 (01:14:31):
And not only will it make them better in the
workplace, it may make them abetter parent, yep, it may make
them a better friend, bettercoworker, all those things and
that's the best you can hope for.
And some you're going to get,some you're not going to get,
yeah, but I think in the end youwould walk away with more
regret that you didn't try to dothat as opposed to yeah, I
really showed him.

(01:14:51):
Yeah, he tried to up me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
You know my authority and I put him in his place.

Speaker 5 (01:14:57):
That's great in the moment.
That's a small.
You feel like you've got asmall victory there, but what
kind of victory really is it?

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
Right, I had to read in nursing school and you might
have had to read it too, I don'tknow.
It was called the Ten MinuteManager and it pretty much was.

Speaker 5 (01:15:12):
You know you give them a minute of reprimand or
what the situation is, and thenyou take the next nine minutes
and point out all their positivethings, and I do that I at
least be like hey, you screwedup on this, but here is what
you're doing, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Right, I got faith in you Always.
End on that positive note.

Speaker 5 (01:15:31):
I got faith in you.
I know you can do this job.
You have the qualities.
It's just you got to focus youfew things you're not doing
right and ask yourself well, howcan I do them better?
That's all you can do, let'ssee.
Wow, then that goes into.

(01:15:54):
Can an impulse, spur of themoment, decision based on
emotion ever fulfill god's planfor us?
So do you think, like somebodycan say, well, that's just the
way I'm built.
No, that's just the way I am.
When I get mad, I yell.
When I get mad, I cry.
When I you know, when I get mad, I go be by myself and ignore

(01:16:15):
everybody.
And do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
I think that's an excuse for god can god work with
that?

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
can god ever work with that kind of?
Not god can work with anythingto better your life, but to
better yours you know he'sdefinitely got his hands full
with that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Yeah, yeah and when, when you're not wanting to budge
or anything.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
If you have that kind of attitude, like it's going to
be harder for him to work withit but esther showed right there
, she didn't react out ofemotion, right right not her
feelings, yeah yeah, you know,she thought seek wisdom prayed
about you know, fasted, fastedyeah boy, if we all couldn't

(01:16:57):
just what a happier place wewould be living in.
Well, a lot of we would beliving in.

Speaker 5 (01:17:01):
Well, a lot of people would say, well, life just
doesn't give me time to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
You can't take time.

Speaker 5 (01:17:07):
Right.
But in our world a lot of timesyou got to make quick decisions
.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Yeah, we react first, right.

Speaker 5 (01:17:12):
Yeah, we're not given in our world, we're not given a
lot of time to reflect.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
A lot of decisions do have to be made in the moment.
Yeah, but I think a lot ofdecisions don't have to be made
in the moment.
But since we're so reactive andemotional, we do make them you
know we don't seek that with.
You know we could we do say heylet me, let me have some time
to think about that, and I'll beback with you, but a lot of
times people just jump the gun.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Mm-hmm react out of emotion and I oh, me too.
Me too, I'm working on that butit always comes with regrets
when I react same yeah, yeahlet's see.

Speaker 5 (01:17:57):
Well, how important is it for us to remain still and
wait for God's purpose to fullyreveal itself before we go to
work on a problem.
So it kind of just bounces offwhat we just talked about.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
Pastor Holly, she's a contemplator.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
She has to sit on something for a few days, that's
good though Before she can cometo, she might have the idea
yeah, he's gonna work it throughand make sure that it's what
god wants.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
I admire that quality in her yeah, well, yeah,
because if we wait, we aretalking to god.
We are relying on god likeyou're not strength from him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
You're not only contemplating your own self,
like you're talking with himExactly.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Figuring that out.

Speaker 5 (01:18:44):
But a lot of people will take waiting for weakness.
If people see you wait, ifpeople see you hesitate, then a
lot of people can immediatelysay well, they're afraid.
They don't want to do it.
Yeah, other than well, maybethey're just really taking their
time to come up with the rightanswer.
Yeah, so that can be hardbecause you got that pressure.

(01:19:05):
Yeah, definitely To act, tocome to a decision, and if you
don't, you know they'll be likewow, you just, you're not fit
for the job.
You can't make quick decisions.
You can't In our day and age.
Sometimes it's very hard to youknow, so sometimes for me it's
like at the beginning of the dayI can say no matter what
happens in the course of my day.
I'm praying right now that youhelp me make the best decision.

(01:19:29):
Even if it is a quick decision,yeah, that you instill in me
the best discernment to do whatI need to do.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Yes, the best discernment to do what I need to
do.

Speaker 5 (01:19:39):
To fulfill your word and to go about things in a way
that would honor you, as opposedto acting like a fool.
And regretting it later.
So sometimes for me that's thebest I can do.
You think about it even beforeyour day starts, what?
happens today, you've gotcontrol of this.
A lot of times when I leave thehouse, I I'm like this is the

(01:20:02):
day you have made.
It's already been signed,sealed, delivered.
All I have to do is my job.
Like I said, it's like I'll domy best and god will do the rest
right, do my job and seek yourface yep, just just very simple.
Sometimes that's the best youcan do, because you know it's,
you know it's going to be busy,you know you're it's going to be
busy, you know it's going to bestressful, you know you're
going to have to make a lot ofdecisions, sometimes very

(01:20:24):
quickly, and that's all you cando is just pray that, no matter
what happens, you'll make thebest decisions you can at the
time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:31):
And if, for whatever reason, something doesn't work
out well, it will.
Everything will work out, forhis good and for yours as well,
if you have that mindset.
So for me that's almost like ano fail type of attitude.
Even if things don't go quitethe way I had planned, the way I
saw them starting out when Istarted by morning, they'll

(01:20:51):
still go, they'll still come outright.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:55):
And you know, things will end up where they're
supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:21:03):
That's kind of an interesting one.
Um, is it healthy to seekcounsel from others regarding
God's plan for your life?
If you feel you have receivedGod's word, what is the best way
to confirm it?

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
what is the best way to confirm it?
To the second part, I think thebest way to confirm it is, you
know, a prime example of a fewweeks ago in the sanctuary, when
, okay God, if this is reallywhat I should be doing, you know
, make this sound equipment stopworking and boom it.
Did you know?

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
like ask well ask yeah, and what?
What is it?
Pastor michael says he's notgoing to go to somebody that he
doesn't trust, right, or toallow them to speak into his
life.
So I'm going to seek, with you,know from somebody wise and
trusted.
Yes I'm not just going to go.
And, of course, mordecai wasvery trusted.

Speaker 5 (01:21:56):
Esther really trusted him yeah, you know so I don't
think she would have went intothat yeah the way she did, if
she didn't trust what mordecai,right, right yeah yeah, don's my
person well, we, yeah, we areeach other's person.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
She talks me off a mountain many a times yeah
sometimes she makes me seethings that have you, I didn't
want to see and I'm like Ididn't like that when I hang up
the phone.
But she was right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Yep, but it's good to have that person.

Speaker 5 (01:22:24):
Yeah, it's good to know who that person is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Yeah, you know that person's going to be truthful
with you.
They're not going to blow smoke.

Speaker 3 (01:22:33):
They're not going to make it what you want it to be
just because it's going to beokay.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
Yeah, well, you created it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
You better figure out how to fix it.
You broke it.
You bought it I didn't do thatno she really doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:22:48):
She'll just say well, you know, Remember when.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Like why did I call you?
I got to go, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
But she makes me think about things it makes me
see things in another view,outside of my own view.

Speaker 4 (01:23:09):
A lot of times we have that tunnel vision we don't
want to see the whole picture,sure Right.
We just want to see what wewant to see.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
We see, yes, yep.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
And I want you to see what I see, and I don't like it
when you don't see it that wayand no offense, ladies, but
that's hard for us husbands toapproach things that way,
because a lot of times we'rejust supposed to listen right
and we're just supposed to sayit'll be okay yes, so sometimes
we're walking in line when wehave to be like.
Well, look, you may be a littlewell and then you're the bad

(01:23:38):
guy.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
Well, and I?

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
think.
I think it is like a provenfact that men's like brain, it
is more of a logical, like Right, how it's wired, and we're more
emotional.
So when we're talking we'relike they're instant.
You know, problem solving,problem solving, I can fix that
and I'm like just let me vent toyou yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah
, let me gossip.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
Sometimes I just I come home and I just want to
unload.
Yeah yeah, and he's like well,if you don't like your job, then
find something else.
No, I love my job.
He said well, it don't soundlike it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
I just need to vent a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:24:15):
Well, shouldn't Dawn be calling?
Let me call.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
Dawn.
Well, here's a maybe a littlecontroversial for our time time
we're living in right now.
Uh, how important is it tofirst seek god's counsel before
acting out in protest to anevent of worldly importance.
So we got a lot of things goingon right now, a lot of protests

(01:24:40):
happening all over the place.
How do you know Like well,should I be joining in on this?
Should I be you?
Know, or should I be?
Is this not what I'm supposedto do?
Am I supposed to just sit backand or any of them?

Speaker 4 (01:24:55):
glorifying God Right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
And I think that's a great question.
Yeah, that's a great question.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
That's why I asked it .
I would say no.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Just go to him with that, just like you would any
other thing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
Am I supposed to do this or not?

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
If it's really weighing on your heart.
Maybe that's the Holy Spiritsaying.
Maybe you shouldn't be doingthat.

Speaker 5 (01:25:17):
Yep Spirit saying yeah, maybe you shouldn't be
doing that.
That's all I get out of thatone, yeah that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
Yeah, I think God probably would have to carry me
kicking and screaming.

Speaker 5 (01:25:34):
Get me out there in any of these protests.
Yeah, I feel that way too.
I'm always just like well, Idon't understand it, because I'm
not knocking on anybody'sprotest so I'm not even going to
get into that.
But for me personally, I'malways thinking how do these
people do this?
Like, if you have a family,kids, things you have to protect
, you know, like, how do you gotlike the time or?

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
how can you risk your own state?

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
They're paid.
They're paid and you may beright about that $2,500 a week
to $3,500 a week.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
I'm in the wrong profession, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:26:04):
I could just see me protesting one time and be like
I'd be the guy they put inhandcuffs and walk away.

Speaker 4 (01:26:13):
Get hit in the head with a brick.
Die Over nothing.
I mean I can go to work and die, you know so we'll mix it Even
peaceful protests.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Listen, I'm not a confrontational person.
I wouldn't want to be out there.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
Nope yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
But don't you think that you can get just as much
done by being on your kneespraying?

Speaker 4 (01:26:43):
We can get more.
You can get more done More doneexactly yeah.
Because it's not.
You're not going to be doingthe work.
The Lord's going to be doingthe work yeah.
It's easy.
It's hard for us, it's easy forhim, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Yeah, but most of those probably out there
protesting, I don't know, I mean, but maybe they don't know that
they need to be on their knees,right, yeah, I mean, I don't
know that, you don't know thatabout anybody.
No, right?

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
No, you don't, you don't know anybody I mean unless
they have it on their sign thatthey're just.
You know, then you know.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
Yeah, but it could be somebody else's sign that says
here hold this.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
And maybe they can't read what's your sign.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
Here's your sign.

Speaker 5 (01:27:36):
But I saw Mordecai's standing up against Haman as his
form of protest.
You know he went out thereevery day in sackcloth and
covered himself in ashes andstood out there and defied him
and defied him and defied himyeah.
But it's like it was for theright purpose, because he was
worshiping.
He was not going to worshipanybody else but God, so he was
not going to, no matter howdangerous it could be for him,

(01:27:57):
he was not going to back downfrom his relationship with God.
He wasn't going to worshipanybody else.
Does God ever I'm sorry, doesGod's favor ever exalt us over
others?

Speaker 4 (01:28:12):
No, I don't think so, because we're all equal.
We're all equal in his eyes.
So the favor he would give me,he would give you, you, you and
you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
Versus a non-follower .

Speaker 5 (01:28:31):
That's the way I'm looking at it right now, kind of
where I'm going with this.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):
I think once a non-follower would come to
Christ he would bless them withthat favor.
Yeah, I agree, and that is hardfor some Christians.
Well, look what he's done.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
You know Right, because he's judgmental.

Speaker 3 (01:28:51):
Why are you giving him that, god?
I've been here all these years.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
I've been here all these years worshiping you.

Speaker 5 (01:28:59):
You haven't done that for me, but I'll do that for
him, you know, I guess that'swhat I'm trying to say is like
you feel like, okay, you put in20 years with the Lord, so
should it ever give you thisfooting over somebody else to
have advantage over them?

Speaker 3 (01:29:16):
No, no, no, no, no, no, over them.
No, no, because god's no allthe same.

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
Yeah, you know because because that's sometimes
the way I look at it is, Idon't care if you've been with
the lord 20 years.
That person has never known thelord in their life and comes to
him truly in that moment, evenif it's for a day.
Then you were on equal footing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
That's right.
Right, there's no.
Yes, you know, and you knowwhat.
And to sit back and watch a newChristian on fire, yeah, yeah,
and it might be like yeah.
That makes you want to.
I want to capture that again,yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:29:48):
I want to remind you where you were all those years
ago.
Right yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:29:52):
Where we've kind of let it.
We've let it get stagnant.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
We've let it simmer, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
It's not boiling, it's just simmering.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
And we should never let that fire go out.
Uh-uh, we tend to Mm-hmm yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:30:06):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:30:12):
Oh, how can we be careful not to confuse serving
our government with worshipingour politics?
So you know, if somebody's youknow going either way with this,
you know if you're on the rightor on the left, wherever you

(01:30:33):
are.
Some people can actually takethat as a form of religion, Like
they believe in it so firmlyand they speak it so loudly that
you would almost assume, likethat's, that's the end of all
being for them.
That's what.
That's where their beliefs lie.
Like at the end of the day, theyhang their hat on what's

(01:30:53):
happening in dc right so how doyou, how can you, how can you be
a faithful citizen of yourcountry but not confuse it with
your relationship with God?

Speaker 4 (01:31:14):
He has to trust that God's going to have his hand in
all of their decisions.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
And that he works all things out for good, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Isn't it here we go, chosen as a time as this?
Yeah, I truly believe that thepresidents and the leaders that
are in our government today arethere, because we may have all
voted, but because God allowedthem to be appointed Right,
whether it is for good orwhether it is for bad.
How many?

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
kings, whether they want to be used or not.
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
Look throughout the Bible and I'm not saying this
regarding our president.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Yeah, I don't misinterpret that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
Look how many kings he's allowed to be in power that
were just downright evil.
Yep, yeah, yep.

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
My grandmother pounded in my head as a child
that you don't have to approveof your leadership.

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
But you have to respect, but you have to respect
.

Speaker 3 (01:32:16):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:32:19):
Well, and you just have to pray that they're going
to do the right thing.
The right things and thatthey're going to pray about it
before they do things a lot oftimes you think.
I don't think they're prayingabout anything right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
It's very hard praying that they have some
moral principles.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
Yeah, yeah, they're not sitting it, sitting with it,
thinking they're making impulsedecisions right.

Speaker 5 (01:32:35):
You hope they're you hope they're getting on twitter
and yeah yeah, you hope they'relooking to m Mordecai and Esther
with that same kind ofdiscernment to be like, okay,
before they make a decision togo into something, come up with
a plan that they're yeah, thatthey're looking to God first.

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
Yeah, and I don't know this doesn't really
probably flow with your question, but like I think, if you look
at some of your diehardDemocrats and your diehard
Republicans, that they are goingto remain with that party
regardless.
They're not looking, and that'swhere you know they're not
looking at what God?
Well, that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
Yeah, no moral compass.
Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
You know, are they looking to do godly things for
our country?
Are they, you know, basingtheir leadership and things upon
God's word?

Speaker 5 (01:33:22):
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm asking.
Yeah, people get so you knowyou're a lifetime Democrat, and
so it doesn't matter who's inoffice, what they say, what they
do.
You're still a Democrat, you'restill doing it, even if part of
the platform is like that isnot within God's will.
That is not.
You know how it was 30 yearsago.
I've still got to stay on that,donkey.

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
When I walk in to vote, I'm voting for who I
believe is going to representGod and who I believe is going
to follow my beliefs and benefitmy family.

Speaker 4 (01:33:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:33:56):
Even if you know the whole thing's not perfect.
Right, absolutely you stillhave to follow.
The one you think is listeningto god is at least following
someone yeah, oh yeah,absolutely oh yeah yeah, but we
can only do our best, we canonly right that's all we can do
especially just how the systemis anymore is.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
You know?
You know, mostly everyone justgoes down the line and no, it's
either all red or all, not me,no, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna and
I get it.
You know I people say, well, ifyou're not voting, all like
that, then there's, there's nopoint, or you're, you're giving
a disadvantage.

Speaker 5 (01:34:32):
No, I mean, I'm doing what I think is right and

(01:34:53):
what's best and checks andbalance.
I didn't quite word this oneright when I wrote it down.
Basically without the value andsecurity of our relationship
with God, can we truly?
I didn't word that right at all.
I got that one all messed up.

(01:35:14):
Is there any value or securityin our lives without the love of
God?
Is there anything else like youcan do in your life Buy, sell,
acquire another relationship,anything like that that can
replace that relationship?
I know the answer to thequestion no.

Speaker 4 (01:35:34):
But if you do, it's always going to be wrong, it's
always going to go bad.

Speaker 5 (01:35:38):
And I ask that because Esther's thinking about
it.
She's like well, I'm the queen,I got all these privileges.
Always going to be wrong, and Iasked that, go bad.
Yeah, and I asked that becauseyou know esther's thinking about
it.
She's like well, I'm the queen,right, I got all these
privileges and I'm doing prettywell for myself.
I got these nice robes, I gotall this stuff.
Am I really going to endangermy situation by going to the
king and revealing that I'm ajew, that I'm a woman of god?
just for my people just for my,so everybody else can survive?

(01:36:00):
Or should I just protect myselfand stay quiet?
No, she has that decision to me, so she makes the ultimate
decision.
That doesn't matter what else Ihave, doesn't matter how long
I'm queen.
Eventually, whether they get meor my life expires.
Naturally I'm going to die,right, and I'm still going to

(01:36:20):
have to look at God in the endand say whether I was faithful
or not.
And she makes the rightdecision.
Yeah, definitely.
So we should never get to apoint in our lives where we
think our valuables, everythingthat we've acquired, even up to
our jobs which, let's face it,yes, that is our whole base of

(01:36:41):
security in our world that welive in.
Like everybody, we all have todo the same thing.
We all have to go to work, weall have to make money.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
We all have to we have bills to pay.

Speaker 5 (01:36:51):
We have bills to pay, feed our families.
We all have to do that.
There's no way to get out of it.
None of us can just get up inthe morning and go.
Well, you know what God's gotit?
I'm just going to sit here.
I ain't going to work.

Speaker 4 (01:37:02):
I tried to.
I didn't work.
Yeah, you can't do that.

Speaker 5 (01:37:05):
I mean.
So that's the reality.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:37:07):
We have to look at that Now.
Maybe if somehow, in some waywe could blot out the entire
world and we did just sit thereand we said, well, this is God's
will.
I'm going to sit here and waitfor something to happen.
Maybe you'd be all right, maybe, and you probably would.
Now you might lose your house,you might lose everything that

(01:37:30):
you have, you might have tostart over.
You might be living in thewoods, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
Right In a box Under a tent you made with.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:37:37):
Yeah, but maybe you would be more one with God.
I don't know, but you, in theend, yeah, you'd probably still
be okay.
Yeah, and in the end, if youperish, lacking all those things
, if you're with God, you arestill going to be okay.
Right In the end, you're goingto be more, you know.

(01:37:58):
Yeah, because we're not takingthose possessions with us, no,
nope no, so don't ever justthink that.
You know, I guess sometimes I'mvery careful not to ask god for
uh financial yeah, possessionssame, that nature same I'm very
careful never to be like.
I wish I just you know.
If you find a way to get methat brand new green Challenger,

(01:38:18):
I'd really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
That'd be so cool.
You sound like Chase.
He's like there's my car again.
There's my car.

Speaker 5 (01:38:24):
Yeah, so you know.
It's just I'm very carefulnever to pray about those kinds
of things yeah.
You know, it's just.
It's like if God wants me tohave those things, I mean yeah,
I'm human.
There's things I'd love toacquire.
Makes you feel good.

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
Like that hot tub, like the hot tub.

Speaker 5 (01:38:42):
Well, you know, my wife ordered a two-seater.
She brought it up.
I just took it to the nextlevel.
That's what I do.
So we got an eight-seater.
She just wanted to get a newbed frame.
We got the whole bedroom set inmahogany.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
I was like, oh, that's what.

Speaker 5 (01:38:58):
I do.
Don't tell me you want to dosomething, unless you want to go
big, go on all out.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
Yeah, go big or go home.

Speaker 2 (01:39:09):
Yeah, she knows, just to plant that seed?

Speaker 5 (01:39:10):
Yeah, then she blames it all on me.
You're the reason we got thisbig payment Wait a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:39:14):
So how many years have you been married now?

Speaker 5 (01:39:17):
You've been over five years.
Well, I think it'll be seven.
This october dang it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
She got you.

Speaker 5 (01:39:25):
I should have read this book sooner.
Yeah, so that was the point ofthat.
It's just, you know, it's just.
We all have to be careful aboutwhat we pray for, true yeah um,
it should always be things thatare truly, uh, gonna make us
more closer to god, and not justthings for our own.

Speaker 1 (01:39:43):
Yeah, you know better for the kingdom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39:47):
So I agree Just you know, I tend to leave those if I
want something and my wife saysno, it's like okay, whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
I'm said no.
The boss already said no.
I'll try.
Try again.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
It's funny, all right .
Well, I don't even rememberwhose turn it is to pray.
I think it's yours nick.

Speaker 5 (01:40:11):
Didn't I all volunteer, okay, the volunteer's
tribute.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
Yeah, all right, let me get this.

Speaker 5 (01:40:21):
Lord, thank you for bringing us all together tonight
, and I just want to just letyou know how much we all
appreciate the fact that yourwill always has the controlling
power in our lives.
That, your sovereignty, yourgrace, all the things that help

(01:40:42):
us continue to live our livesday after day, even when times
get tough, when we can't quitesee the light at the end of the
tunnel, when we think thatthings that we're hoping for,
things that we're strugglingwith, are never going to come to
a rightful, we're not going tohave the answers that we desire,

(01:41:02):
that you do have it all workedout and all we need to do is be
patient, continue to trust youand just do our duty as you
would see us, do it for yourkingdom, and just let that be
just a leading guide foreverything that we do in this
life.
I just pray that we'll all gethome safely tonight and

(01:41:26):
hopefully we'll all be back herenext week to do it again.
All these precious things arein your name, amen, amen.

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