The Weight of War and Faith- Guest Q & A

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Is it the?
I can't remember.
He makes God want to spewbecause they're just lukewarm.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Is your mic on?

Speaker 3 (00:48):
She's not talking into it.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
She don't have her headphones on.
That's what he's talking aboutover here.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
I might find someplace else.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
We know where your mind is at.
You shouldn't be thinking aboutthat Well, at church, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Because it reminds me of the days that we're living
now.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
The lukewarm churches that want to pacify and make
everybody happy.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, you're not going to make everybody happy.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
No, but they bend the rules.
They bend the Bible to makeeverybody happy.
No, but they bend the rules.
They bend the bible to makeeverybody happy.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
they're acceptive of everything you know we got to
allow everybody to be satisfied,not everybody's satisfied.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
You're never going to satisfy everybody do you want
to introduce someone special?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
that's here.
We have a special guest on thepodcast today, my son Richard
Rich.
So you know we're going to geta little insight from a listener
.
Yeah and see, you know, maybewe'll learn something that we
didn't know.
Maybe we can make ourselvesbetter.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
I thought you knew everything.
Roger, what's that?
I thought you knew everything.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Oh wait.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
No, that's not what your shirt says it's always my
fault.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, wow one of the slogans yeah, so all right, go
for it, let's dive in.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah, okay, so rich, so rich tell us a little bit
about yourself.

Speaker 6 (02:19):
Um, from yuricksville obviously.
Um, I spent 27 years in themilitary, been all over the
world.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I live in texas now, where the weather's beautiful,
not like this not like this iscrazy yep, no, he was
complaining this morning oryesterday morning.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
It's cold it has been cold in the morning it was like
50 some odd degrees.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
It doesn't get 50 where I live now are you in a
part of texas where you have towatch how much water you use yes
, yeah, yeah, I'm in like southcentral texas, yeah, so, um, you
guys heard about the floods inUvalde.

Speaker 6 (03:02):
obviously I'm like an hour from there.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
Oh okay, yeah, I've always thought that has to be
like what they tell you how muchwater you can use, right, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 6 (03:14):
Yeah, your watering day, depending on if you're the
last digit of your address, is aone.
Monday is your day, and thenall the way to whatever.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
That would be different, yeah.

Speaker 6 (03:27):
Yeah Well, I haven't watered my grasses, Dad.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Ours is too.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
He just didn't water it because he didn't want to mow
it.

Speaker 6 (03:37):
I have somebody to do that for me, oh, yeah, I forgot
.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Smart that is smart.
I know a guy, you know a guy, Ido.
So what made you stay in Texas?
Or are you not staying in Texas, like, how long have you been
in Texas?

Speaker 6 (03:55):
How do I want to?
There's the whole back story.
So I ended up in Tennesseewhere I ended up retiring and we
were going to stay there and mywife works for the VA, so she
was job searching.
We ended up in Texas.
I'm not leaving.
She wants to leave.
I'm not leaving.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
And he left.
He's lived in Texas, actuallylived in Texas quite a few years
.
Okay, a couple of times he wasstationed in Texas, actually
lived in Texas quite a few years.
Okay, because he was yeah, acouple of times he was stationed
in Fort Hood for Eight years,eight years.
Then he moved to Washington andthen from Washington back to no
, I went to Korea.
Oh, yeah, he went to Korea.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Okay, so let's start from when you graduated high
school.
Yes, what happened after yougraduated high school?
What happened after yougraduated high school?

Speaker 6 (04:43):
I joined the Air Force.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (04:45):
And then what?
And I went to Guam, stationedin California.
Then I got out.
I lived in Houston for a littlebit.
Then I came back home, was homefor about four years.
Then I joined the Army andstayed gone after that.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Okay, do you like staying gone from this area?

Speaker 6 (05:07):
oh, 100%.
Yeah, if they didn't live hereI wouldn't well yeah, I can see
that it's.
It's amazing the things thatyou see once you get outside of
this community yeah, I hear thata lot yeah, it's, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
And oh, you forgot germany oh yeah, germany was
that the the time that you andlinda?
Yeah, when is that who you wentand visited?

Speaker 4 (05:39):
yeah, okay you're really booming over there, sid
like loud yeah, I don't knowjust a little bit.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
These are my ears anyway well, hold on, you're
probably hearing her throughmine.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Is it booming for everyone?

Speaker 6 (05:53):
yeah, okay, let me see I don't you keep talking,
supposed to be so you guys keeptalking.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
I think I'm red um.
Is that better?
Is that better?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's better, all right cool.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
All right.
Well, no wonder you were loud,you don't have to shout.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
The thing slid clear up to the top.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
I was going to say who's orange.
It was clear up top too, butthat was Michael's yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
But yeah, it's different.
Yeah but but yeah, it'sdifferent.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I'm sure you enjoy whenhe is home.
Yeah, but not, he's never herelong enough yeah, yeah, I can
only do.
I can only do about seven daysyeah, he can't stand me any more
than seven days.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
That's kind of like me at the ocean yeah three or
four days, I'm ready to go home.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
That's exactly how Chase is too, and he loves it.
He loves the ocean, but by dayfive he's like I'm ready to be
home and I'm like ah.

Speaker 6 (06:52):
No, yeah, I can only stand about a week.
I love Linda, but she's a lotNow wait.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Is that mom to him?
Yeah, Okay, that's what Ithought.
But when he said, Linda, I'mlike wait a minute Okay.

Speaker 6 (07:13):
I wanted to make sure everybody in the room knew who
I was talking about.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
I knew who he was going to say it right off the
get-go.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
But no, to say it right off the get-go, but but
now it's, uh, he's, uh.
What do I want to say growingup?
Yeah, a little bit, yeah, yeah,he's got gray hair.

Speaker 6 (07:36):
That same amount of gray hair my beard, is you so?

Speaker 2 (07:40):
yeah, it's in the genes, it's your DNA.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
That's what I was about to say.

Speaker 6 (07:44):
Hey, as long as I get good hair, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
You got hair.
Yeah, I think you'll be good,based on what Roger has.
So, since you do listen, couldI consider you a Christian then?

Speaker 6 (08:01):
That's complicated for me.
Um so I was raised in thischurch back when Florence was
here.
Um then you know, joined themilitary and you go other places
and then then you go to war andyou kind of rethink your life.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
And then you see all those things and you're like is
there, whether you're Muslim,jewish, whatever your faith is,
is there somebody who's lookingout for you letting all these
people die?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Right, like a higher yeah.

Speaker 6 (08:35):
So I mean it's complicated for me because of
the things that I've seen.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
That is completely understandable.
I can see that do I?

Speaker 6 (08:46):
am I a believer?
In something?

Speaker 3 (08:47):
yes, yeah, yeah, um, nick, I was.
Do you have anything topiggyback from that?

Speaker 4 (08:54):
he nicks our history buff, which I'm sure you know if
you listen to a few episodesyeah, so yeah, with your
military service, you know yougo around the world and, like
you said, you've seen alldifferent kinds of people.
You know you've witnessed I'mgoing to guess that you've
witnessed violence.
You know destruction, all ofthose things I'm often my

(09:21):
theater of expertise is the, acivil war, which was a very
religious time in our country,and a lot of the men who fought
in that war were very religiousand for some purposes they they
fought, because they they notonly fought for their political
beliefs but they fought fortheir religious beliefs as well.
They kind of tied in togetherand a lot of these men fought

(09:50):
going into war as much as theycould.
You know that's the last thingas, being Christian people,
that's the last thing that theywanted to see happen.
But a lot of these men, ofcourse, are caught up in that
and I've learned there's just acouple things that would sustain
those men through those fouryears, and the main thing often
was their religion, that theyfelt that they were doing their

(10:11):
duty, as they saw it, to God andthey had to lean on that,
because without that, you know,you had very few people who you
know, if there wasn't certainpeople that had those beliefs, I
mean as terrible as it wasalready you had, you know,

(10:33):
700,000 casualties over fouryears, so 700,000 Americans, so
700,000 Americans.
And you think, if there wasn'tthese Christian, reasonable
people that held these strongbeliefs, how much to me is, how
much more terrible would it havebeen.
You know, it would just beencomplete bedlam and I think that
we would have foughtindefinitely because there would

(10:56):
have been no, there would havebeen no Christian people to say,
hey, you know we can't, youknow war is war, but we can't
let this thing slip into thisperiod of, you know,
bushwhacking and just completemurder and just killing people
at random.

(11:16):
You know we can't allowourselves to fall into that and
I think you know I can see God'shand in it as I've studied it
over the years.
That, as you said, you know, itmakes you question why God
would put people through that,why so many people have to die,
why we had to experience allthese things.
But I think sometimes it for meit always comes back to, you

(11:42):
know, the sin of the earth andwhat has been created.
You know human beings have, wehave created a lot of the
problems that we have.
Um, and then when you alsorealize that, yes, you know the,
uh, the prince of this earth,satan he is.
He is in control of this worldright now.

(12:02):
He has control of it.
Now the final outcome he's notgoing to have control of that,
but we can see.
If you dig deep enough, youstart to move away from this
idea.
That for me, it's just likethis thing with Charlie Kirk

(12:24):
today.
It's like, okay, there's a manwho claimed to be a Christian,
that spoke about God openly allthe time, that loved God, would
argue for him, fight for him,and he lost his life today in
doing that.
Yeah.
You know, but we've seen thatfrom the beginning.
I mean, jesus loses his lifebecause of that and fulfills his

(12:45):
purpose.
So, violence alone.
I don't think we can ever sitback and just say well, my
experiences, I have come to theconclusion that there is this

(13:08):
battle that we can't seespiritually, between God and
Satan, and we're all caught upin it and we all have a decision
to make about that.
And, yes, sometimes that placesus in bad situations and
violent situations where peopledo lose their lives.
Um, and it's unfair and it'sand it's hard to understand it.

(13:31):
Um, you know, but you know, Idon't think that.
I think, when we think of thatsimple idea that, well, we're
going to question everythingbecause the world's not perfect,
I think at that point, you know, we're missing.
The point is that, yes, thereis, you know, in this world

(13:54):
there is that confrontationbetween good and evil, between
God and Satan.
Yeah.
And it's going to continue.
We're all going to be caught upin it until the time comes that
Jesus decides to come back andtake it Right.
But the sad thing is we havethe key to the whole thing Jesus

(14:15):
and the Bible, everything thatJesus said he gave us, the key
to peace, to happiness, to thepoint where we don't have to
kill each other.
The problem is, as humans, wecan't figure it out.
None of us can.
The smallest sin can createsuch a ripple effect.
But when we're talking aboutthe bigger governments, get the

(14:38):
bigger the population gets allthose things.
Get the bigger the populationgets all those things all this
sin has just created this justconstant violence in our world.
That is only going to be solvedif every single person on the
earth can sit down and say I'm aChristian and I believe in

(14:59):
Jesus Christ and I want tofollow what he says.
I don't want to follow my ownselfish motives, I don't want to
follow, I don't want to be inpower, I don't want to be in
control, I don't want to takewhat they have, all of those
things.
Until every single person inthis world can do that all at
the same time, it's never goingto happen.

(15:20):
But of course, prophecy itselftells us that's not going to
happen.
It's just not so.
I can see how somebody like you,everything that you've seen,
you can question all thosethings, and I think you have
every right to.
But I think it's just a journey, no matter what your situation

(15:44):
is, where you come from, whatyou've experienced, that you
find Jesus Christ and that youtry to live by what he teaches
as much as possible.
Because it may be the onlything that does make the older I
get.
It's the only thing that doesmake the older I get.
It's the only thing that makessense.

(16:05):
Everything else just doesn'tmake any sense If you look at it
, if you look at everything elsein the world.
They don't make sense, youcan't even measure it.
But everything that, if youreally put it in your heart,
everything that Jesus Christsays and how he expects you to
live, it makes sense, becauseyou can feel it.
The more that you read the wordand you're into it.

(16:27):
You can feel it within yourself, and that's a big thing.
Is people always want to belike?
Well, prove to me that God isreal.
They want you to do somethingphysical.
They want you to be able to.
Well, why can't you stop thatwar if you know?
If you say Christ is real, Well, you're missing the point.

(16:48):
The point is within you.
You have to take what Christsays and put it within yourself.
If you don't do that, there's nochance.
There's just no chance, and alot of us Christians, we're
going to go to our grave stillin an imperfect world.
It's just the way it is.
But we won't be imperfect.
I mean the second that we diewe'll be perfect.

(17:11):
We'll be relieved from all ofthat and really that's just the
way it is.
But none of us, none of us aresaved from the trials of this
world.
And there's, and we're notpromised it will be saved from
the trials of this world, Right,None of us are.
Unfortunately, some of us haveto see worse than others.

(17:32):
Yeah, and a lot of times youknow, again studying the Civil
War, a lot of those boys.
They were like 18 years old.
They worked on their parents'farm.
They never traveled any morethan 10 miles from their home.
They didn't know.
They had all these politicalpeople stirring them up, telling
them what they should believe,and a lot of them fought for

(17:53):
that simple fact that, well, mybuddy's gone If I don't go.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I'm going to look like a coward.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
So I have to go.
Or it's the right thing to do.
It's the right thing to try tosave the country, or it's the
right thing to fight for mystate, my family and for my land
and everything that I know.
But it's because the peoplethat we give credit as being in

(18:27):
power they're not exercisingChristian principle.
They may say they are, they mayeven say that they're standing
up for Christian principles, butat the end of the day, if
they're asked to make a choicebetween okay, am I going to
follow what Jesus Christ says,or am I going?

(18:50):
to do what isn't the benefit ofme, of not only myself, but the
so-called country and you know,for power so that we can
continue to have the upper hand.
It's going to go wrong everytime and it has I mean, that's
that's.
That's the proof of history.
It's never changed, doesn'tmatter how the technology
changes.
Yeah.
You know, you can kill peopleany which way you want to.
We've been doing it since thebeginning of time.
But the fact of the matter isnot enough people get it.

(19:14):
That's why it doesn't change.
So the only thing that you canchange is what's in your heart,
who you decide to follow.
Yes, I'm a patriot.
I believe in America, I loveAmerica, but God comes first.
He always will, because, again,in the end, that's the only

(19:35):
thing that's going to make meperfect.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
And what is it?
God and country.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah.
So I mean I believe you have tolove your country.
You have to Because, I mean, weare fortunate that we can.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
We can sit right here , we can worship the way that we
want to.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
And you know, and we're not going to, you know,
we're not going to getimprisoned for it, or shot, or
shot you know, but, againthere's always—and today is just
a perfect example of that, asyou have a man today who was
killed let's face it for hisChristian beliefs because,
that's what he was just gettingpeople to try to understand

(20:15):
themselves and try to get themto focus on.
Okay, forget about how you seeyourself.
How does God see you, how doesChrist see you?
That's what he was trying toget people to focus more on is

(20:36):
forget what the world is tryingto tell you to be.
Forget what the world is tryingto make you out to be.
Your first priority should behow does Christ see you?
And if you look in the mirrorand you can't see that, if you
don't see Christ in you, you'regoing to have problems.

(20:57):
You just are, and to me's.
That was a really long answer,I know, but but I think it's
important is to explain all that, because land a plane, nick
well, I'm sorry, but you can't,because because this is the
thing that has continued tohappen since the beginning of

(21:19):
time.
Yep, yep, yeah, even when theroman soldiers grabbed jesus yep
and took him back to becrucified.
It's been the same thing.
It's been happening ever since.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Oh, yeah, yeah, Like you said things, will change.
We don't get it and you know,technology changes, but at the
end of the day like thesesocieties.
Don't change the intent is thesame, yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
The intent is always the same.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
And I think same.
Yeah, the intent is always thesame, and I think, and then it's
guys like him that have that,that have to experience, yeah,
those things yeah, and I think,since he does give us free will
to make all of our decisions,which most the time are sin of
some sort, whether that's smallor large, you know, I think that
does lead to a lot of thesehorrific events and horrific

(22:00):
wars, and you know horrificsituations as you've you've
probably been in, but eventuallyhe does make it come all for
good, like he did.
He gave you that free will togo do whatever you know, but
whatever you know endures yearslater.
He's trying to like almostrebuild what he was trying to

(22:21):
make happen the whole timeanyhow, but instead, you know,
we're like, oh well, we're justgoing to go sin and do this.
And he's like, ah, come back,this way, I'm trying to do this,
you know.

Speaker 6 (22:32):
Well and God can speak through other people.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Like he spoke through Abraham Lincoln when God said
with malice toward none andcharity for all, with firmness
in the right, as God gives us tosee the right, you have a man
who is again like re-explainingtheir true purpose of what we're
supposed to be doing, and wecatch it for a while, when it
sounds good for a while, butthen we forget about it and we

(22:55):
do it all over again and again.
It's usually our young peoplewho get caught up in these
things, and that's my biggestfear, moving forward with
everything that's happening nowis you have a very unsuspecting
youth that is growing up in aworld of YouTube and just being
totally, you know, justblindsided by social media.
A lot of them are justabsolutely clueless.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
And they're going to be the ones that have to pay the
price of them do not know howto carry on a normal
conversation.
No, no, you know, everything isdone through the phone
technology and it's easy to hidebehind this and bully somebody
or be nasty.
Okay, is that better?
Can't hear me?
No, you can't.
I don't like to talk on my mic,but I mean just, yeah, it's

(23:47):
scary what our next leaders aregoing to be can't be any worse.

Speaker 6 (23:52):
No, and that's.
And that's the thing, and thatis the point and that's a great
point.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
It's okay.
So if you're always going tothat ballot box thinking that
next politician is going tosolve everything in your life
and is going to be the answer toyes, we have a duty as
Americans to do that, and itprobably is the best form of
government on the earth, butstill, at the end of the day,
it's not going to save you.
You still have to have JesusChrist, or everything else,

(24:21):
because it's the only thing youcan take with you.
It's the only thing you cantake with you.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah, it's the only thing you can take with you and,
like Michael said before, youknow, hey, if I'm wrong, then
I'm in a box underground dead.
But, man, if I'm right, youknow, and look at all these, you
know.
Look how I will endureafterlife.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
And so you know you're in a situation where you
believe in something but you'renot sure.
I'm not saying I don't want toput words in your mouth and say
doubt having that relationshipwith him personally.

(25:05):
If you've done it, if you trulyhave it in your heart and
you're truly trying to exerciseit on a daily basis, I've never
seen it hurt anybody.
I've never seen anybody notbenefit from it.
Now, yeah, you can go to a badchurch.
You can get around, let's faceit, you could get around bad
Christians.
That will lead you down thewrong path but, that's not what

(25:27):
I'm talking about.
It starts with your own personalrelationship with Jesus Christ
and knowing who he is andstanding firm in it, despite
being a sinner.
You're never going to beperfect, and that's not the
question.
It's never the question of youknow, because Christians can get
a bad rap.
Oh, you all think you'reperfect, well, no, well, maybe
some of them do, but that's thewrong attitude to have.

(25:49):
Those can be the hurtfulChristians that you shouldn't be
around.
It's that personal relationshipwith him that you carry with
you every single day, no matterwhat you're doing, no matter
what situation you're in, andthat's where you see yourself
start to grow.
That's where you see yourselfrising above things that you

(26:11):
never imagined you could do orwithstand.
That's when you start to reallystand firm in your principles,
instead of just you know, goingfrom you know blue to red, red
to blue, depending on you know.
Well, you know I like the wayhe looks, or you know I like the
way he talks, or you know, anyof those things.
I've seen people go fromRepublican to Democrat and back.

(26:33):
You can do all that stuff withpolitics, but I think if you
really focus on having apersonal relationship with them,
you won't waffle in it, youwon't go back and forth.
Yeah, we're always.
I think we can all be honestand say we don't understand, I
don't understand, I don'tunderstand this world we live in

(26:54):
.
I truly don't.
And it makes you wondersometimes, like where does it
end?
Where is the end point?
Is it going to go on foranother thousand years, another
2,000 years?
We don't know.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
And we're not supposed to know.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
We're not supposed to know.
But the thing is, though, isyou see, that you build your
life and, like I said, you'llsee yourself going in a
direction you never thought waspossible for yourself, and,
along the way, you're gettingother people to do that same

(27:27):
thing.
So, true, christians buildpeople up, and they and they
spread that seed as much aspossible, and that's what you
leave behind, and, hopefully,you, you know, you get enough
people, because, in the end,that's what I believe it's all
about, because there is this wargoing on, yeah, that we can't

(27:49):
see, that we don't understand,and, as human beings, you know,
god loves us.
That's why satan hates us somuch, because he loves us so
much, so that's why satan makesthis world as bad as he does,
and we help him out every timewe sin.
You know that's, but we again.
We've been doing that since thebeginning of time.
You can't blame the world forall the problems when you look

(28:11):
at yourself and say, well, youknow, yeah, I did that yesterday
, probably wasn't the best move,yeah, hurt that person over
there or took a shortcut overhere, or, you know, you can't
point the finger at God himself.
No, when you're not helping thecause.
you know you're always going tofall short, yep, but when, I
think, when you're in themajority, you know, following

(28:33):
God's word, and you trulybelieve that he is your Lord and
Savior, then your life itdoesn't matter what happens to
you.
I think.
Yeah, then your life.
It doesn't matter what happensto you.
I think you always come outwith a greater understanding in
the end that he is in control ofall things, even if you can
look at the outside world andsay, wow, this is just a
complete disaster.

(28:54):
But that's not what it's about.

Speaker 6 (28:58):
I agree with everything that was said and I
don't question anybody's faith.
But shots fired in anger, whatare you going to do?

Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's scary, it is.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
And that's part of your.
Well, let's face it, that'spart of your duty.
Yeah.
Shots fired in anger, you fireback, that's what you've been
trained to do.
And you can look at that rightthere and be like, okay, so how
can we be a Christian society ifwe, you know?
But then again, I mean you canlook at the Bible and God has
had his people and God has hadhis people go to war.

(29:33):
War has always been a part ofGod's hand, so to speak.
So it is confusing.
It is something that you know.
I can't say anything.
Like I said, I've studied theCivil War my entire life but I
can never say, well, Iunderstood what that kid went

(29:56):
through.
No, I don't.
I don't care how many books Iread about or how many accounts
I read that came from the mouthof those soldiers themselves.
You still can't ever understandit.
You have to experience ityourself.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
There's no way.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
There's no way.
So I get that.
I get how that itself wouldmake you question, like
everything, because you know youshouldn't—nobody should ever be
placed in that situation.
You shouldn't, nobody shouldever be placed in that situation
.
But it is a part of our sinfulworld that it takes place.

(30:29):
But again, to me, at the end ofthe day, sin is sin and we're
all placed in these positionsthat we might not even realize.
That's the thing.
Like you can look at that andyou can see it black and white,
like it's.
It's wrong to to have shotsfired in anger.
It's just wrong.
That's very clear yeah but Ithink there's a lot of sins in

(30:51):
our everyday nature we don'teven think about, and how
damaging they can be.
Um, so I think it's all.
It all hurts God's kingdom inone way or the other.
But yeah, I don't know.
I guess, just thinking aboutwhat you're saying, it's hard

(31:13):
for you to believe that God'swill is in control, because you
have these.
You've seen what you've seen.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
You have people interceding.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:29):
Yeah, I spent almost four years total and I had a
friend whose helicopter got shotdown.
So how do I explain that to hiskids, because we were close,
you know?
Or how do I explain it to hiswife, even though it's not my
job, they're going to want toknow exactly what happened,

(31:51):
right.
And the guy who shows up atyour house to tell you you know,
I'm sorry to inform you, maynot have all the details.
They just get a letter sayinghey, soldier Smithith, you know
was was killed, right, and theydon't.
They don't give any details.
No, and that's and that's not agood job to have either.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
No, no, I'm sure that's very tough, that's, and
you may never get the answers.
You know there's a lot ofpeople who never get the answers
that they want or somethingterrible that has happened in
their life.

Speaker 6 (32:29):
I don't know.
It's odd Just because you spendso much time with somebody
telling you not necessarilyright or wrong, but this is how
we are going to approach thissituation.
Well, we approached thatsituation for 20 years and

(32:51):
solved absolutely nothing youknow, so that makes me think
what did I?
You know what did I?
Why did I go there?
Yeah.
You know we went there, Somepeople died.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
So how did you get into the military in the first
place?
Let's go back to the beginningand think about when you were
either deciding after school youwere going to go do something
or you were going to join themilitary.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Can I tell the story?
Go ahead, I don't care.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Can I ask what year did you graduate high school?

Speaker 6 (33:25):
1988.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
So shortly before my dad.
Do you know my dad, steveMackey?
Yeah, okay, that's my dad.

Speaker 6 (33:35):
I mean we're not friends, but yes, I know who he
is.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Okay, I figured, because you both grew up here.
Anyway, go ahead.
Yeah, yes, I know who you are.
Okay, I figured because youboth grew up here.
Anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (33:44):
Yeah, so when I was like 12, we had an interaction
that wasn't positive and at thatmoment I decided that as soon
as I could, I was getting out oftown.
I mean, I don't think it wasanybody's fault, you know 50-50,
.
You know because I was preteenand sassy and Headstrong yeah.

(34:06):
Sassy, you know.
So, matter of fact, they had tosign a paper for me to join the
Air Force because I wasn't 18yet.
So the recruiter came to thehouse, sat down on the couch,
explained everything to them.
I don't think they were happyabout that decision, but all in

(34:33):
all it ended up working out forI don't want to say for me,
because I don't want to soundselfish, but that incident put
me in the situation that I'm innow, you know, which is a good.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
It forms who you are.

Speaker 6 (34:47):
Yeah, I mean it's a decent situation, I can't
complain about it.
But yeah, and then when I cameback, you know like, okay, this
is kind of cool, and then itwasn't cool anymore, so I had to
go again.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
Correct me if I'm wrong, nick, but okay, so when
you enlisted, was that DesertStorm time or not quite yet?
Okay, and then are you still?
Did you retire?

Speaker 6 (35:18):
Yes, I've been retired about 10 years now.
Okay, did you retire?
Yes, I've been retired about 10years now.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Okay, so for the whole time that you served, not,
I mean, there wasn't a lot of,like you said, for 20 years we
did this for what you know.
Am I wrong in thinking thatthere wasn't a lot of things
that were successful?
As far as the agenda, you knowwhat the agenda that we were

(35:41):
trying to push and I don't blameyou for thinking I'm, I've
dealt with all this and I, youknow, mentally, physically,
spiritually, I'm sure, in andfor what you know.
Just, am I wrong in thinkingthat we didn't have too many
advancements?
You look at the problems goingnow in the Middle.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
East, so nothing has changed.
Exactly yes you could take thatviewpoint that in the big
picture, yeah, what has it allbeen for?
Now, that doesn't mean that atthe moment it didn't have some
immediate effects to perhapssave us from this, save us from

(36:20):
that, have certain benefits,things that we felt we had to do
at the time.
But yeah, in the big pictureyou can go wow, we're still
sending guys over there, allbecause this small part of the
world, just again since biblicaltimes, has not been able to
figure it out.

Speaker 6 (36:41):
There are a lot of guys I know who, once they got
out of the military, they didn'tadjust well, and then, when
Russia invaded Ukraine, they allpacked up their stuff to go
fight, because that's all theyknow.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
They actually get to the point where they're more
comfortable in that environmentthan they are peaceably at home,
yeah.

Speaker 6 (37:01):
And I know a lot of guys home, yeah, and it's.
I know a lot of guys who drinka lot.
I know a lot of guys who, whoare on you know hard drugs, yeah
, just because it's hard to.
It's not hard to deal with, butit's hard to manage.
As far as going to sleep, I'mon so many medications, it's
ridiculous, yeah, just so I cansleep, yeah, and not have

(37:26):
flashback nightmares, wake upsweaty cold.
All those things that you seein movies, those are all real.
Those, those are.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Those are all real even like adjusting to the
civilian life again.
I think, um, my brother-in-lawhe served in Kuwait and Iraq and
Afghanistan.
He's my age, so he's 28.
But I think he did four tours,I mean within like six years or
something.
Like he saw a lot and he didlike the filming, like video,

(37:57):
you know videography but evenwatching it.
And of course he came home rightbefore COVID hit and then COVID
hits and like just turmoil, youknow, and it almost, I think it
formed something in him likegermaphobic Cause and I'm like I
don't know like the brother'sjoke like, oh, you know what did

(38:19):
he see over there?
I'm like that's not funnythough, you know, because it's
something that's that he'sactually struggling with.
You know like, and I don't knowlike I don't know if it just
formed over there or but he, hewas having a hard time, you know
, even adjusting in general.
And then you know the thecouple of times that he came
back for like eight, nine months, but then once covid hit, it

(38:39):
was like a whole differentperson almost I don't know just
yeah that that happens to.

Speaker 6 (38:47):
it happens to a lot of us.
It just it's more mental thanphysical for most people, right,
because everybody has troublesleeping afterwards.
Um, I talked to a lot of myfriends and you know, those are,
those are things we talk formost people, because everybody
has trouble sleeping afterwards.
I talk to a lot of my friendsand those are things we talk
about Because we actually careabout one another, because you

(39:12):
form very, very strong bondswith individuals in a situation
like that.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I can imagine.
No, because you, you don't know.
We had no idea.
I was in a building that blewup, that was fun.

(39:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
There's only so much training can prepare you for,
I'm sure you know.

Speaker 6 (39:40):
Well, we I mean we we trained a lot, especially when
we found out that's we weregoing to a specific area and
what the geopolitical outlook ofthat area was at the time.
Because that that's.
I don't understand why it's allpolitical.
The people in the Middle Eastjust look at Gaza, for example

(40:04):
right, they've been fighting forthat tiny piece of land forever
, but nothing gets solvedbetween the two, like you can't
just split it up.
I'll take this half, you takethat half.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
No.
One at all or nothing.
No One at all or nothing.

Speaker 6 (40:21):
Well, I mean.
You think, though, throughouthistory I mean Vietnam is the
nearest example that we shouldknow better than to try and
fight farmers with pitchforks.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Yeah, because we're not going to win.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, that's what the British they kept saying.
You know we're going to fightfarmers with pitchforks and see
what happens.
Yeah.
So you know it's the same thing.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
Yeah, yeah, I don't.
And even in the Middle Ages,all the Crusades, all that stuff
right was fought in the name ofGod.
Yeah.
Right, but I mean, that's notwhat he's teaching.
You know, Not teaching war yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Teaching peace yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
Yeah Well, I've said many times on this podcast that
what Jesus brought to the worldat the time.
People don't realize this nowbecause everybody is used to
this idea of kindness and loveand sharing and all these things
.
Before Jesus came, people didnot have those ideas.
The world was a very cruel,hard, dark place where love and

(41:38):
those types of things were not auniversal part of how people
lived.
It just wasn't, and I thinkthat's the true purpose of it
all is, yeah, jesus has given usthis new idea of how to live
and how to treat each other andhow to treat the world that his

(41:59):
father had created and how totreat the world that his father
had created.
And again, it's all there forus to follow, but we can't do it
.
We can't do it.
I mean, a lot of us can.
I'd like to know the actual.

(42:21):
I would love to know the actualnumber of people in the world
right now that are saved, butI'm going to guess that we're in
the minority yeah, that's justmy guess.
So as long as that continues,we're going to have situations
like he's been placed in, yeah,and it's just the way it is.
So it's again, you know, and Ithink sometimes, like people in

(42:46):
your situation, you'll look atyou know a Christian and think,
well, they have a whimsy idea ofthe world, like they have this
idea of the world.
That it's, you know, it's….
Rainbows, unicorns butterfliesand you've got to say, well, but
you've never experienced whatI've experienced and in some

(43:08):
ways you might be right aboutthat that there are Christians
that have a very whimsy view ofthe world, have not fully come
to Jesus yet, that think that,oh well, you know, it's this

(43:29):
whimsy idea that just it's notrealistic for the world that we
live in and in that it's likeyou're right it's not realistic
for the world that we live infor you to live in this idea of
sunshine and rainbows all thetime and thinking that God is
going to take care of everythingand God is going to bring me
through this and we again, Idon't think there's anything in

(43:53):
the Bible that tells us that weare not going to experience
hardship.
If you truly read the Bible, itdoesn't always give you this
rosy outlook on life.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
It gives you all the trials and tribulations of
things that you could go throughor you're going to go through.
I mean, we did the episode onall the apostles and how the
outcome.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
You know how they were killed and all the violent
ways that they were killed forwhat they believed in.
But again, I think that'smissing.
I think that's missing thepoint and it's a hard.
Like I said, there's no waythat I could possibly tell you

(44:39):
like, well, whatever you'veexperienced, you just got to
give it to God and then me forjust expect, like for me not to
understand why he just can't dothat.
That's not being, that's notbeing christian no it's not
being understanding.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
No no, it's just not christian, because you have to
be understanding of, uh, whatother people have gone through
or what other people you knowsee, you know, because you're
not there, you're not in theirshoes.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
But what I would say as a Christian is you do not
have to be—.
You survived what you havesurvived, and you've done it.
However, you've managed to withyour life up to this point.
However, you've managed to withyour life up to this point, but
you always have.
You don't have to.
It's kind of you know, don't letit define you type of thing,

(45:34):
but you have to make thatdecision of okay, where, how am
I going to carry?
How am I going to carry all thethings that I've experienced?
Am I going to carry it myselffor the rest of my life?
Am I going to let God try tocarry it for me?
Am I going to look to God andto Jesus to try to say, yes, I'm

(45:56):
going to lay down my burdenswith him.
And if you have to go to thecross every single day, you have
to get in that habit of doingthose things.
I've experienced much lighterthings than you in life, but
when I was 12, 13, my mom wasdiagnosed with breast cancer.
I had the picture perfectchildhood up to that point, like

(46:18):
the wonder years, all that kindof thing.
That was my childhood.
Everything was perfect,everything was great, and my
world was shattered in aninstant when my mom got sick.
Because all of a sudden, I'm 13years old.
I got to learn how to do my ownlaundry.
I got to learn how to make myown meals.
I spent a lot of lonely time,you know, because my mom was,
you know, we were very close, soI relied on her for everything

(46:41):
and all of a sudden she was toosick to do all those things and
my dad had to work.
He had to keep going, so hedidn't really have a lot of time
to sit down and try to make youfeel better or make you feel
secure.
He had to keep being a man anddo what he was supposed to do.
So I had to grow up fast andfigure things out quicker than a

(47:02):
lot of my friends in highschool who were able to just run
out on a Saturday night andfeel good and get into trouble
and not worry about nothing.
And I was lucky enough that Iwas brought up to love Christ
and that, for whatever reason, Iwas immediately able to start
leaning on that and it didn'tsolve a lot of my problems, but

(47:26):
I think it kept me centered.
Yeah, I could go a little tothe right, a little to the left,
but ultimately it kept mecentered.
It kept my strength up when Ididn't have it as a boy who's
only 13, who doesn't understandanything.
There was just that innerstrength that I was able to gain
from that.
That carried it for me.

(47:49):
I didn't have to carry it allthe time, and so I've been
through a lot of things likethat that I didn't understand at
the time and that, yeah, I'vegotten angry at God plenty.
Him and I have had some prettyangry conversations, but to me I

(48:10):
think God is very happy stillif we talk to him in anger
because we're still talking tohim.
It's like being mad at yourfather, you know, for whatever
you two went through that, hadyou make that decision to go
into the military, well, that'sthe course that your life took
because of that.
But it's not, but that'sobviously not your true

(48:33):
relationship with each other.
And it's the same thing withGod.
You can be mad at God as muchas you want to be mad at him,
and I think he's okay with thatbecause you're still speaking to
him.
You want to be mad at him, andI think he's okay with that
because you're still speaking tohim.
You're still at the end of theday, even if you're angry,
you're still trusting him that,whether it's with your last
breath, your life ends with him.

(48:54):
Your life will carry on fromthis sinful world that we live
in, where you don't understandanything, to a place where
everything will be understoodand you will have that peace.
But you can't carry around theburdens that you have.
The way I've always looked atit is you have to.
You can't put everything youhave on your shoulders.

(49:14):
There's no possible way you cancarry that.
And if you do that every singleday, you know life is just
going to continue to beat you up.
It's just going to continue tobeat you up.
It's just going to continue todrag you down.
Um, so that's that's what I see.
Like I said, your, your lifetook a trajectory much like mine

(49:36):
, but in completely differentcircumstance.
But sometimes you feel likeyour life has led you.
You didn't lead your life Likebecause of circumstance you've
ended up where you are and someof it has been unfair to you.
But through all that, I think,when your center is God, you

(49:58):
come to understand it.
You come to understand theburden and in many ways it makes
you a much stronger person andit makes you this person that
can go to other people that haveshared the same experiences and
hopefully help them and getthem on the right path, Because

(50:19):
you don't want to live the restof your life feeling that way.
It's just.
I think that's a burden thatyou just can't carry by yourself
.
You just can't, and I think alot of people.
You do have to give it up toGod and that's just.
Like I said, what youexperience and what I experience
is orange and apples, but atthe end of the day, we can all

(50:42):
say that I think people.
At the end of the day I don'twant to use the word selfish,
but you kind of are, because itdon't matter if you forgot to
put the trash out.
And now you got to sit on it foranother week.
That's your problem.
And it's going to make you mad,it's going to make you
frustrated.
Yeah.
You know where somebody else is?

(51:02):
Yeah, has a terminal illness?
Yeah, but that don't mean yourproblems are any less because
you're fortunate than somebodyelse.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yeah, I was going to piggyback kind of on my.
You know the way you're lookingat like, is there a higher up?
Why are all these thingshappening, you know?
And growing up, my mom I thinkI was five or six, like you said
cookie cutter family, from whatI can remember, you know and

(51:32):
family of four, this and that.
And uh, my mom, she gets manicand gets diagnosed bipolar.
Like took months for them tofigure it out.
Like is she on drugs?
What the heck's going on?
Like my dad had people callinghim as he's at work because
there's no cell phones at thetime and call.
Actually he might have beenworking with Jarvie at the time,
I don't know.
Hey, you know, angie's going102 miles an hour down the road

(51:56):
sitting shy in the back, youknow, and just all this stuff.
And I mean every yeah, knock onwood every September, every
year we, we get an episode ofsome sort.
Now it's gotten a little bettersince the years have been on.
I guess with bipolar andmenopause there's something
correlated, I don't know.
So it's gotten a little better.
So hopefully it won't like wedidn't have anything last year.

(52:19):
But you know, through all theseyears I'm like, but why?
But what?
Because, like you said, youknow, grew up all these years,
I'm like, but why, but what?
Because, like you said, youknow, grew up in a church and
was, I don't know.
I think I was a half a blockaway, so we would walk there on
Wednesdays and then Sundays andI mean we had youth group, all
these things.
But at the back of my head I'mjust like, but why can't I have
a normal relationship with mymom?

(52:40):
You know, I see all these otherpeople.
I have the stepmom who, I mean,she has a strong personality
and I love her to death now.
But it was so hard to accepther as that because, number one,
that strong personality.
Number two, I had other peoplehey, she's not nice, you know,
just people talking.
It was hard.
There wasn't a normalrelationship anywhere and

(53:03):
nothing was being, you know,mirrored for me to know what a
mom should do.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
And and now I'm like, you know, I think why was I
ever, why couldn't I have justhad that normal, almost like
Nick, you know, like everythingwas good, and then all of a
sudden, hey, it just getsstripped away from you and well,
because, to be clear too,because then you know, yeah, I
was, uh, was the religiousbackground that I had and the
relationship I was forming withJesus was keeping me strong most

(53:31):
of the time, but I still,because of what had happened, I
was still making mistakes andstarting the things that
happening to me that I couldn'tcontrol.
And you know, and you alwaysthink like if that wouldn't have
happened, then I wouldn't havedone those things, like so I'll
think like so, god, you know,you know I believe in you, and
so why, why did you even letthis happen in the first place

(53:52):
for my life to go down thistrajectory?
That was, to me, unnecessary.
Yeah, yeah, and but again, butit's, it's.
That's not, that's not, it'snot our plan.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Right, and it's like you said, it's our selfish
desires, like I, you know, and Ijust look at my mom's life and
I'm like I hate to say it's awaste, because it's not you know
, but from who she was from 1996to 2002, 2003,.
Completely different than whoshe is now, because the

(54:25):
medications that work with herand keep her, you know, stable,
that is not who she was, youknow, and it's just like, first
off, why couldn't I have gottento know that person?
And then I'm like now lookingat it as a mom.
I'm like, you know, I didn'thave that normal relationship
with my mom.
However, I can give that toCooper, you know, like it won't

(54:47):
be mother, daughter, but it'llbe mother and son.
And I think I asked someone,maybe four or five years ago,
like I just don't understand whyhe would let this happen.
You know, like what?
That's something that I havealways toggled with, something
that I have always toggled withwhy would God, like just let
this happen?
Or why, why can't we find astable medication that makes her
at least half of thepersonality that she used to be?

(55:08):
And it's like, you know, he thethe way this person said it was
.
He allowed that to happen likehe allowed her to get sick, but
it doesn't necessarily mean thatthat was what was it Allowed it
, but didn't he didn't directlycause it, you know, and I'm like

(55:28):
, oh, I guess, and I think Ithink that's like a big thing
with the free will and thesinning and all of these things,
and come to find out later on.
You know, my dad's like yeah, Ithink things could have been a
lot different if we weren'ttrying so many medications at
the same time.
You know, when you were kind oftalking about that, like, yeah,

(56:04):
you know, I I've had that thingwhere it's like why god, why
this, you know, and I just kindof wanted to bring my two cents
in, but that was a nickel'sworth.

Speaker 6 (56:14):
Yeah, nickel as a as a listener, I found that Nick
and Michael have a similarapproach to how the podcast goes
.
Yeah, and also the strongbelief, yeah, right, and that's

(56:37):
good, because now he's the newMichael.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, yeah.
It's true, he tends to keep hislittle more focused.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
Well, you know, Michael always says that he
wants to build something else,build something up and then pass
it on to somebody who can carryit.
We pass it on to you Because hecan't carry it all, and so you
know that's great, you know that, you know that's that's open to
me and I appreciate that.
Um, and I just want to be clearlike this this is not, this is

(57:07):
not a therapy session.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
We had no idea what we were going to get into.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying that's not myapproach here in listening to
you.
Is this therapy session?
Because if you really want toget down to my beliefs on the
whole thing, then I'll just bevery blunt and honest to be like
.
You have to understand thatthis, at the end of the day,
this is a battle between you andSatan.
That's it.
And we're all in this battleand we're all going to choose a

(57:35):
side.
And if you're that strong ofbelief, you realize that, yep,
he's going to keep coming.
Just when you think like he'sdone enough, just even when you
tell him like bring it on, likethere's nothing more you can do
to me, guess what, he'll findsomething.
So you're going to be tested.
It's not only you know, you'regoing to be tested every single
day and you have to make thatdecision in your life.

(57:58):
Okay, where am I going to endup in the end?
What side am I going to be on?
Because to me, that is thewhole answer to everything.
To me, it's the only thing thatmakes any true sense to me,
because the world itself makesabsolutely no sense.
If you want to try to makesense of this world, well, good
luck.
You're never going to do it.

(58:19):
But to me that's what makessense is because when I read the
word, I believe it.
I believe what God says, Ibelieve what Jesus says, even if
I can't follow it a hundredpercent, because I'm not perfect
, because I come from the sin ofthis world.
You know I, you know I came.
Even Jesus himself you look athis lineage came from sinful

(58:40):
people.
King David I can relate a lotto King David's life.
But he made a lot of mistakes,but that didn't mean he still
didn't have true purpose inGod's kingdom.
And that's where Jesus comesfrom.
And we all come from that samelineage.
If we all look back, we'llprobably all find that we've got
a.
We might have a serial murderin our family tree, we might

(59:03):
have a, you know.
You just never know what you'regoing to find.
But you're going to find thingsthat aren't so pleasant and
it's just the way it is.
So we're born out of this sinand Satan knows that.
So from the time we're bornagain, jesus loves us so much

(59:23):
and that's why Satan hates us.
And until you realize that andgo oh yeah, well then that kind
of makes sense, that makes senseof everything.
And yeah, there are going to becasualties in this world.
It's just the way it is.
But at the end of the day,though, none of us are
casualties.
If we're following the Lord, itdoesn't matter what happens to

(59:44):
us, where it happens to us, ifwe're 300 miles away from home.
When it happens to us, it doesnot matter, because if you're
following the Lord, that's whereyou're going to be, or you're
going to be on the other side ofit.
And there's a lot of peoplethinking right now that I'm a
very good person.
I've always tried to do theright thing.
Right now that I'm a very goodperson, I've always tried to do

(01:00:05):
the right thing.
I've always treated people nice, I've always been kind to each
other.
But that's not the point.
I'm sorry, but it just isn't,because when you realize
kindness comes from Jesus Christ, it doesn't come from any other
source.
So if your intent and why you'rebeing kind isn't because you're
following Jesus Christ, wellit's a good thing, it's great,

(01:00:27):
but in the end, it's not goingto mean anything.
It's because, in the end, youhave to decide where we're all
going to end up, because, in theend, there is going to be as
the Bible tells in Revelation,it's all going to come to a head
and you're going to be here oryou're going to be over there.
There's no gray area.
Now, when you say that, it saysit doesn't mean like yep,

(01:00:49):
you're 100% Never sinned in yourlife.
No, it has nothing to do withthat.
It has absolutely nothing to dowith it, because until the last
day you live.
If it's true in your heart,just as the thief was on the
cross beside him, you're goingto have that opportunity to go
to him.
If it's true in your heart, itdoesn't matter what you've done.
But if you don't do that, as wetalked, it doesn't matter how

(01:01:15):
much wealth you've piled up.
It doesn't matter how many gooddeeds you've done, you're still
not going to have the crowns oflife.
If that true purpose wasn'tbecause you did it for the
kingdom, you just did it foryourself, or you did it, you
know, because you wanted to,yeah, those things are nice, but
it's not going to mean anything.

(01:01:37):
That's just the way it is.
So again, it's not a therapysession Like I can't sit here
and tell you you know, I don'tcare what you've been through.
You need to forget it.
No.
That's not what we're saying andthat's not you know.

(01:01:59):
That doesn't build arelationship with Jesus Christ.
It's that you have been throughall these things and you're
honest with the things that youhave been through or the pain
you've inflected, even if it wasbecause you were told to do it,
because it was your duty to doit, you still have to lay those
things at his feet and give themto him and just say, yep, I've

(01:02:20):
lived with it long enough Now,in this time, like he's carried
everything, and it's time likehe's carried everything.
The moment he was crucified, hetook it all, took it all.
That's hard to fathom that inthose moments, he took on every
single sin that every singleperson on this earth will commit
for all time, whether it wasdone out of duty, whether it was

(01:02:43):
done out of good intention orthe worst intentions.
You know even the godlesspeople.
He took it on, and that has tobe your approach.
There's no gray area with that,but you can.
It takes a lot of work, though,and your work is never going to

(01:03:08):
be done.
That's the thing.
Now you think, well, yeah, nowI'm a Christian, I'm in the
front seat of this big churchwith 3000 people.
My work isn't done.
I got the big hat on the big bow.
Everybody's looking at me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Yeah, we would look at you if you had a big what are
you wearing?
Yeah, your work is you're.
You're in your pink chiffonskirt which church are you going
?

Speaker 6 (01:03:37):
pink chiffon that's good dad very good, hey, I'm not
.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I'm not a fashionista so I'm gonna switch gears.
Okay, go ahead as being a nursefor 38 years.
Do you feel that our governmentprovides you and other veterans
with the care that they trulyneed?

Speaker 6 (01:03:55):
that's funny because I was just on the phone with the
va today.
Uh no, but it it is gettingbetter.
It's slow and the process isextremely difficult to navigate
if you don't understand what'savailable to you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
That's what I was about to say, cause your wife is
.
Does she still work for the VA?
Yeah, okay, so you kind ofalready know what services and
what you can and can't.

Speaker 6 (01:04:24):
Yes, I had that advantage, but when I was
getting ready to retire, theymake us, they make you go to all
these classes.
They make you go to financialmanagement, you go to a resume
writing class, you know cause?
We don't know how to write aresume.
We've done the same thing for20 years.
Yeah.
You know, we don't, we don'tknow how to put that on paper.
So it makes sense to anemployer.
So they give you a, they giveyou a class and all these other

(01:04:47):
things, and they and the guycomes in and talks maybe 15
minutes about the VA.
He doesn't tell you what'savailable to you, nothing.
He just says, hey, you have VAbenefits.
If you make a certain amount ofmoney from retirement, then you

(01:05:11):
don't have to worry becauseyou're always going to have
health care, which is true.
However, the health care isquestionable at best some days.
Yeah.
You know, and it's just it's.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
Shouldn't be that way , no.

Speaker 6 (01:05:28):
It shouldn't.
It shouldn't as much as DonaldTrump is Donald Trump.
He has made improvements forveterans.
For example, in his first term,all, all veterans he forgave
all their student loans, whichwas great for me, you know, not

(01:05:51):
not so much for for people whoyou know haven't served.
And it doesn't matter how longyou serve.
If you serve a day or 30 years,the benefits are the same.
Is that fair?
Possibly not simply because,especially now there are, there

(01:06:20):
are sailors, airmen in basictraining that are going to get
hurt because this generation isweak.
All they do is watch YouTube,play video games, whatever.
So you get kids showing up tobasic training.
Either they don't understandwhat the military is about or

(01:06:40):
they just thought it was a goodidea.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
And they're not even physically fit in their own
world.

Speaker 6 (01:06:46):
Nope, not at all.
It's like they just came off ofmom's couch and showed up.
And you're like, wow, why did Ihurt myself, go to a place
called outside, that's?
Where it is.
Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
The only reason he knows a lot about this is he
works on base.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
The reason with.
I did home health for 21 years,so I see the benefits that the
people that have worked allthose years and get Medicare and
the people that work don'tcontribute Not saying
everybody's like that, but don'tcontribute and they get on the
Medicaid system.
Their health care is all paidfor.

(01:07:26):
But yet you've got little oldladies and little old men that
are making choices of buymedicine this month or food.
And I currently have an unclethat's 91, that was front row
Korea in battle.
Has Alzheimer's now Probablyreally alzheimer's, probably

(01:07:46):
just age-related dementia.
Yeah, he gets three hours aweek of a home health aid
whereas someone else would get40 to 50.

Speaker 6 (01:07:55):
Yeah, yeah yeah, or or live in possibly yeah, yeah,
it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
and whether it's because my aunt is elderly and
she doesn't know to push, push,push to get the assistance, I
don't know, but it's disgustingsometimes.

Speaker 6 (01:08:14):
I think the worst part about just the VA
healthcare system itself isthose generations before
meietnam, korea, world war ii.
They didn't have theseresources, so you know they
would come home what they callit shell shock.
You know they changed it toptsd during vietnam.

(01:08:37):
You know same thing, but theydidn't have, like I, but they
didn't have, like I said, theydidn't have the resources that
we have today, right, which iskind of really unfair to them.
I have a friend whose dad was inVietnam.
Every night he still listens toVietnamese radio.
He will not, he can't go tosleep if he doesn't listen to it

(01:09:00):
.
Wow, and that was 40 years ago,50 years ago, forever ago.
Still he can't.
I mean, I understand the reasonwhy.
His wife doesn't understand thereason why, right, and she's a

(01:09:23):
good lady, you know she's anurse and all those things, but
she just can't wrap her headaround why every night that's
what he has to hear.
I don't know if he understandsanything that's being said or
not, but I think it's just thenoise from it that helps him go
to sleep and just kind ofrelaxes him a little bit,
because that's what you wouldget go to sleep, and just kind

(01:09:44):
of relaxes him a little bit,cause that's what you would get
Like in the.
You know, at the end of the day,you you only get whatever the
local radio or TV is.
It was the same for us when wewere in Iraq.
All we got was like Al JazeeraTV.
I was unlucky enough to bethere at the time when they were
beheading all the contractors,and they would.

(01:10:07):
They posted this on TV.
They showed the whole thing,and the worst part about that
was if you've ever heard ananimal get slaughtered.
That's what it sounds like Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
And that's the sound you'll never get out of your
head.

Speaker 6 (01:10:33):
Oh Lord, no, that's why I don't hunt anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
Yeah, to piggyback on that, when my grandpa, he was
diagnosed with cancer braincancer last May, and then um had
home health in and everythingand, um, he had a knee surgery,
long story short, couldn'tfigure out why he wasn't you

(01:11:03):
know healing.
And so they start doing allthese scans, figuring out, hey,
yeah, we have brain cancer.
So they're setting him up withhome health to go home and he's
wheelchair bound and um, yeah,you can.
Only I think it was like 15hours of home health and my
stepmom, with the strongpersonality she has, she's like
um, what about his va?
Like they weren't even going tocover it, you know.

(01:11:25):
Like they weren't even gonnaask if he was a veteran, that
and oh, and then.
And then they go oh wait, he'sa veteran, yeah, oh, okay, well,
I'll have to contact them.
You know it was like it wasn'teven offered, like they didn't
even ask.
You know what I mean?
It's just like baffling, solike if cindy wasn't there and

(01:11:45):
would have, you know, have saidthat, like I probably.
You know, my grandma had toomuch she was thinking about, she
wouldn't have thought to sayanything yeah, like, but they'll
ask you when you go to crackerbarrel.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
Yeah, you're a veteran.
Yeah, but and that's noteverywhere, they don't do that
everywhere right I mean, that'swhat I love about texas.

Speaker 6 (01:12:04):
Texas is a military friendly state.
When we came back and we flewinto dallas because I was at
fort hood we flew into dallasthe fire trucks sit on the
runway and as you land, theythere's a huge flag and they
spray the plane with water,right, for whatever reason.

(01:12:27):
I don't know the reason behindthat.
That's just weird, but they dothat.
And on the plane, as soon as wehit American soil, everybody
claps, everybody Hooting andhollering the flight crew, you,
they were, they're cool.

(01:12:47):
And then when you walk into theairport in dallas, you get the
same thing.
Like it's crazy how much it'schanged from vietnam when they
came home to when we come homenow yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
That is good.

Speaker 6 (01:13:06):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Any more questions.
One more what made you decideto go into the Army instead of
reenlisting in the Air Force?

Speaker 6 (01:13:14):
That's a very good question.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Yeah, I feel like a lot of the times it's the other
way around, like people flipfrom Army to Air Force.
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:13:22):
When I decided I wanted to go back in back into
the military, I went to the airforce recruiter first and at
that time they weren't takingany prior service.
So if you were from a differentbranch you were just kind of
out of luck.
I was like, well, I just walkedacross the hall.
Then the guy's like, yeah, thisis what I can get you.
I'm like okay, when can I leave?
Huh that's neat yeah, it was,it's been interesting it I'm

(01:13:54):
glad I had the experience, but Ididn't.
I wouldn't want anybody else tohave it because it's you know,
but this generation coming upthe world's gonna smack them in
the face and they're I don'tknow what's gonna happen yeah,
that's the thing I've worried.

Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
That's what I've thought about in just past few
hours yeah with what's happenedwith charlie kirk and I just I
see a reckoning in this countrythat these young people are not
going to be ready for.
I think there's been so manyflashpoints already.
With this now happening, I seemore to come and I just don't

(01:14:33):
think young people can quiteeven understand it.
I don't even think theyunderstand the levity of it all.
You know, they're just so intheir own world.
I try to think because, yeah, mystepdaughter she don't
understand it and she's afreshman in high school and I
think back when I was a freshmanI think I at least had pretty
good understanding yeah you knowof things, but they just don't

(01:14:54):
see the world around them at all.
And uh, it's yeah, it's scarything to think about right now.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
And you know, a lot of people always say, oh, these
young kids you know, but notabout certain, you know, not
about wartime, like this is not,you know, a conversation that
others were having 20 years agoabout the upcoming generation.
Well, the thing that concernsme, I truly don't think that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:19):
Is I think it has developed in them even a lack of
empathy that when something badhappens, it doesn't even affect
their heart at all, they don'teven react to it.
It's like oh, oh, yeah well ohwell.
If it doesn't concern them,they're not interested, so
there's no empathy for what'sgoing on around them, and it's

(01:15:43):
just that's what's scary is thatyou know?
and they're going and, let'sface it, yes, it's a sad thing,
but the young always have tocarry the burden of these
terrible things that happen andI just don't think they're going
to be prepared to do that and Ipray that nothing happens.
You know, I pray that nothinghappens out of all this.

(01:16:04):
But again, we don't know.
But I just, yeah, I just see alot of young people that are
just too social media and cellphones and all that have just
made young people just socornered and just so blindsided
to everything that you know,especially with, like, ai.

(01:16:27):
I mean, they'll watch stuff onai and I'm like I know that's
not real, yeah, but do they?
But do they like you know?
like I I saw a few like I'vebeen seeing these videos.
I'm a beatles fan, so I seethese videos of, like, john
lennon and this and I'm like Iknow that's not him, because
I've seen all the real footage.

(01:16:47):
But now they've taken thatfootage and they've tainted it
to where he's doing this ordoing that and I'm like I know
that's not real, but do they?
And that's just whether youwant to say that the Beatles are
important or not, but therewill be things that are
important.
Right it will affect how theythink, and they're going to
think it's real and it's not.
And then, at the same time,when serious things happen,

(01:17:12):
they're so distracted by theunreal yeah, that they don't
even they don't even understandwhat's going on, yeah.
So how are they going to make,how are they going to make good
decisions when you don't evenunderstand the world around you?

Speaker 6 (01:17:28):
That's true.
So I want to circle back tosomething that you had said
earlier, which I thought aboutand I didn't think about at the
time, and the minority.
I think the reason thatreligious individuals, no matter

(01:17:51):
what your faith, I think thatthe reason young people don't go
to church or read the Bible orwhatever it is that their
parents teach them is I thinkit's become so watered down that
nobody really understandswhat's being said.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
It's because they're and it's being, like Beth was
saying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
They change everything and they water it
down to make it nice and so it'sappealing to everyone.
So you know we've got to getyou in here.
You know, and they don't wantto hear the— the truth, Hell and
bridge.
Yeah, Let me use my historyagain.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
If we take a young child in the 19th century Civil
War times, what are the mostimportant things to that child?

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Food, shelter, water.

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
Water, yeah, food, family, god, there's no other
distractions.
Like that child, most likely,whether he's in a big city going
to a big church, like inPhiladelphia, new York, or if
he's from the small rural townin Virginia, most likely he's

(01:19:09):
going to church at least twice aweek.
Most likely guess what?
A lot of families can't affordactual books, the only book they
have is the Bible.
So what are you doing atnighttime, when the sun goes
down?
Most likely the family'sgathering around to read the
Bible.
So they hear it every singleday, they live it.

(01:19:30):
They're close with their family, they work with their family.
That's the reason most peopleare having children at that
point in time is to help withthe farm to help survive.
You want to have these childrenbecause, yeah, they get enough
of age, they could go fetchwater, they can help hunt.
You want to have these childrenbecause, yeah, they get enough
of age, they could go fetchwater, they can help hunt, they
could bring in the food.
So everything is centeredaround that family unit and it's

(01:19:51):
all centered around God.
And if you look at our societyas it keeps growing, that focus
from God keeps getting fartherand farther away because there's
so many distractions.
And, let's face it, if you pullout the bible and want a child
to read it not gonna happen,it's boring in their mind.
It's boring becausedistractions have gotten just.

(01:20:11):
I mean, I just think about whenI was a kid, like we had the
nintendo.
When nintendo came out, we justthought that was the end of all
being and it certainly was aanother step in that direction.
But even then it was like, okay, you had number one, you had to
get permission.
You had one TV in the family,so you had to get permission to
get time to be in front of it.

(01:20:32):
And then you had you had toplug it in, you had to push
power, you had to sit down infront of it and you had to play
it and eventually your parentsare going to say out, right, go
outside.
You know so you would get alittle time with that, but you
still had to go back to reality.
But now these kids don't everhave to leave the game and

(01:20:52):
they're all connected.
They're all.
They don't see their friends.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
They don't have to go on theirbike down the street to meet
their friend.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
They're the only person that has the game console
?
No, now, they all got it ontheir phones and it's all they
do, no matter where they go,michael, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Yeah, and there's like 10 people watching.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
We have an audience.

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
ladies and gentlemen, what do you do?
Hit the window.
Acted like a dead bird hittingthe window.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
I didn't even see him .

Speaker 4 (01:21:20):
So that's been.
The big change is you had thissmall family unit who focused on
God, who you know again, thatwas the whole center.
But now that's not the centerof our lives, it's just not.
And you can say that for mostadults too, the phone, the phone
is the center of your lives andeverything that goes on.
You know everything that'sgoing on in the outside world,

(01:21:43):
up to the second that it happens, but you have no idea where God
is, what he's asking of you,what he wants you to do.
You have no clue because youhave spent no time with him
whatsoever, because you are sodistracted with the world that
we live in and that's theproblem.
And again, that's spiritualwarfare.

(01:22:04):
Satan is like he's loving itBecause he's got a lot of people
exactly where he wants them andthey don't even know it.
Now, my generation, yourgeneration, I think, everybody
sitting in this room we stillhave enough of the old world,
the old ways that we still gotsomething to cling to, no matter

(01:22:25):
if we get wrapped up in ourphone for three hours.
Yeah.
We're probably still going tosay you know what, I've been on
that a little too much today.
Yeah.
I'm going to put it away for theday Right, like I try to do no
cell phone Sundays as much as Ican, but sometimes I falter in
that, but, but sometimes Ifalter in that, but at least
we'll do that.
But if you take this away froma 14-year-old right now, their

(01:22:47):
whole world has crumbled youmight as well cut their arm off,
and that's like what you'resaying.
If they have to go, if WorldWar III occurs, and they have to
go to war, and they can't havethis in their hand, I don't know
, I just don't.
I don't understand how they'regoing to survive without it.

(01:23:10):
They'll learn quick maybe theywill and maybe they will, and
sometimes I think is that whatit's going to take is something
so terrible that brings peopleback to reality of we don't need
this 24-7 because something isgoing to make us snap back and
say, okay, you know what we'vebeen doing is, you know it is

(01:23:31):
not good for our society.
But now that's to me.
That to me, is is the reasonfor that minority.
It's just, it is no longer.
It's not a family thing, it'snot something people center
their lives around anymore.
It's something if you've gotthe time, if you've got the
extra time.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Let's face it no one has the extra time because,
there's Sunday fun day.
And like you said, most peoplework six days a week and they
just want that extra day.
I mean, yeah, the way thatsociety is made anymore, let's
just talk football.

Speaker 4 (01:24:06):
It used to be just Sundays and you had college
football Saturdays, but now yougot a Monday game, you got a
Thursday game, you got a Fridaygame, a Saturday game.
That man, after work or on theweekends, that's all he wants to
do Watch every game that's onTV.

Speaker 6 (01:24:21):
Yeah, try not to leave the house on Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
And there's nothing wrong with enjoying a football
game.
There's nothing wrong with that, yeah.
But the problem is, it's likewhen it just society is
consuming us with just all ofthis junk that we, we can't, we,
you can't wade through itanymore, like it's just become a
swamp that most people justthey're smack dab in the middle
of it and and they want to be init.

(01:24:48):
I guess I mean you know, theyjust don't, like I said, they
don't even know the trap thatthey're in.
Yeah, I don't know any betteryou're going to turn around and
you know that 19 year old kid'sgoing to be 40 years old, and
what do you got to show for it?
Yeah, hours upon hours of timespent with your cell phone.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
I tell you you're watching any of jeff dunham?
Yeah did you have you seen?
Have you seen earl url?
That's how he spells it.
He's, it's a little a guy or akid and he's on his phone and

(01:25:25):
he's, he makes his thumbs workand everything.
And you stop and think about.
You know that really.
And and he talks to him.
He's yeah, yeah, I am.
And he break back to his phoneyeah, okay all right back to his
phone.
Okay, right back to his phone.
You, you know, that's societytoday.
I mean like we went toApplebee's Sunday for lunch with

(01:25:48):
Harry and Luna.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Thanks for the invite , yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
I don't like Applebee's anyway, I'll tell you
that right now.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
I didn't, I was just, I was told.
But anyway, all in time there'sa family sitting and there's
probably six adults and onelittle baby and everybody was
sitting there on their phone.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Nobody talking at all .

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Nothing, they're just sitting there on their phone.
Yeah, okay, sitting there ontheir phone.

Speaker 4 (01:26:20):
And the problem is too, is.
This kind of talk is almostcliche now.

Speaker 3 (01:26:24):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
To talk about it in that terms is like yep,
everywhere you go, you seepeople on their cell phones just
sitting there.
Well, guess what?
Most likely, you're probablydoing the same thing.
Yep, uh-uh.
That's because you don't knowwhere yours is at most of the
time we all again as we said atthe beginning of this podcast,
is we all see the problem butwe're not going to do anything
about it and it's the same thingwith with with having a

(01:26:46):
relationship with christ.
We all see the problem, butwe're not going to do anything
about it because it'll just taketoo much time.
It may mean that you know, wemay have to sacrifice something
sacrifice something.
um, we, in some cases we're not.
We're not ready to give up thatpain that we're carrying, for,
whatever it is, whether, whetherif it's a military sort,

(01:27:10):
whether it's a divorce, whetherit's a death in the family, I
don't know whatever it is,you're not ready to give it up.
You want to carry that painwith you because I don't know if
it makes more sense to us, asyou said, like he has to listen
to that every night to go tosleep.

(01:27:30):
It's hard to give those thingsup, but that's the problem.
It's like we can't go to Jesusand give it to him.
Like I say, how many times youlay down at the foot of the
cross and before you leave youpick it back up head out the
door.
We all do it to him.
Like I said, how many times doyou pick it?
You lay it down at the foot ofthe cross and before you leave,
you pick it back up head out thedoor.
We all do it, and that's theproblem.

Speaker 6 (01:27:52):
Just sitting here thinking and you brought up why
he listens to the music.
Helicopters make me feel safeJust hearing the helicopters,
because I was in, we hadhelicopters.
Yeah.
So if they were flying, badthings were happening, you know,
but they weren't happening tous when they were flying.

(01:28:12):
Gotcha yeah.
Right.
Airplanes not good.
Fireworks not good.
When we first, when we firstmoved to Texas, seaworld at nine
o'clock lights off, fireworksand we were they have a strip
mall close to SeaWorld thefireworks went off.

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
I almost ran in a building have you been to
therapy at all?
Have you done any of that?
How extensive has it gone foryou?

Speaker 6 (01:28:48):
I mean it's gone fine , but going to therapy and even
though talking about it and mywife and I, you know, talk about
all of our experiences itdoesn't really make it any
better.
I mean it's still there, right,and yes, it's still there,
right, and yes, it's off mychest, you know, but at night

(01:29:10):
when I go home and go to sleepor lay down, it's there.
I can't get rid of it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:21):
Almost like when people say, like losing someone,
like you don't like coping withit, it like it doesn't get any
better, you just learn to livewith it.

Speaker 6 (01:29:27):
I guess that's kind of the way I looked at that when
you explained yeah, that's,that's that's, that's pretty
much what it is yeah because Ijust live with it day to day
yeah all the whatever else theydid to me, and hips hurt and
knees hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
Well, you know, that's what I was going to ask
you next.
Is this more of a you know, aphysical pain?
Is it a fear?
Is it a like?
How do you associate that wholeexperience that you have every
time your head hits the pillow,like you know?

Speaker 6 (01:30:04):
I can't stop it.
It just happens when I close myeyes.
If I don't take my medication,I don't sleep Like I can stay up
for 36 hours.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
No problem.
So, even if you've had a greatnight, had fun, you know you lay
your head on the pillow andyour mind immediately goes to
all those experiences.

Speaker 6 (01:30:28):
Yeah, so it's how you just deal with it and try not
to let it, you know, controlyour life, because there are
some people like that who won'tleave their house.
Yeah, people like that whowon't leave their house, yeah,
you know.
Or a car backfiring, you know,will send them diving to the

(01:30:49):
floor.

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
You know, however, they react to that.

Speaker 6 (01:30:52):
Do you give yourself credit for what you've been?

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
through In what way?
Well, I mean, do you just lookat yourself and say you know
what?
You know?
I've endured a lot of you, lotof things that say a normal
person would not have to endure.
Did you ever look at it thatway?
Yeah, I can hold my head uphigh and say, yeah, I've been
through a lot of stuff in mylife and I'm trying to carry it

(01:31:17):
the best that I can.
I mean, I'm just asking that,as— yeah, no, I understand what
you're saying.

Speaker 6 (01:31:24):
Yeah, I'm proud of what I did.
I mean.
So it's from those have.

Speaker 4 (01:31:29):
I.

Speaker 6 (01:31:30):
No, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:31:34):
It's more of a I'm proud of it, but I don't try to
put it out there to everybody Isee and talk about hey, I did
this, what have?

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
you done in your life , kind of thing.

Speaker 6 (01:31:47):
I don't try to do that, you know, because we just
we want people to know, but wedon't like it when they ask
questions.
Yeah.
Right, so this format's alittle different because he's
here.
Gotcha, you know if he wasn'there, this would be more
difficult for me, because we'vealready had this conversation.
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:32:06):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:32:06):
Probably a couple of times.

Speaker 4 (01:32:08):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:32:08):
You know, yeah, so I mean it gets easier, you know,
as the years go on, but it'sstill not an enjoyable

(01:32:31):
experience sometimes, I don'tknow.
It's yeah, like I said, I meanwe're proud.
And one thing we figured out,you know, going through this
just military people in generalis we were a part of living
history.
We, we tried to affect changein our lifetime and there are a
lot of people who are inpositions to make change that
don't, because the answer isalways well, that's always the

(01:32:54):
way we've done it.
I'm not five.
Give me a reason yeah.
You know we never got a reasonRight, other than you know
George Bush was weapons of massdestruction, big fat lie.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:33:10):
Was nothing.
He just needed an excuse.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:13):
And every order in the military is because I said
so, yeah.
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:33:18):
Mostly, but but still , you know I'm not five.
You're doing it because I toldyou to.

Speaker 3 (01:33:22):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:33:24):
Give me, I'll paint your rocks all day.

Speaker 4 (01:33:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:33:27):
Tell me why I'm painting your rocks.
Right.
Now, if you want to look prettybecause there's a distinguished
visitor, a colonel general,somebody like that, coming and
they want to make it pretty,okay, that I can understand.
That doesn't mean I likepainting rocks, right, because
when they dry we got to flipthem over and paint the other
side.
You know, it's just.

(01:33:48):
I think if leaders, seniorleaders, would give more
information, it won't be asdifficult for people to deal
with after they, you know, havean experience of some sort.
Yeah.
But just go here, roger.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Do you think, um, do you think they do that because
because of the civilian Cause?
I know, like I know, you guysknew a little bit more, not much
more than us, you know, but Ithink even when cole was um,
before he went to kuwait, theywere talking about possibly
having him go to korea.

(01:34:33):
I think, um, and he had alittle bit of insight, but not
much, but even that insight,like he couldn't tell us.
You know what I mean.
Do you think, like them, notsharing with you guys is because
of the civilians?
But I don't even think that,though, because I think they
could trust you guys to keepyour word, if that makes sense.

Speaker 6 (01:34:55):
Are you talking about American civilians, or
civilians wherever?
I guess, americans.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
Yeah, about American civilians or civilians wherever.
I guess American civilians.

Speaker 6 (01:35:03):
Yeah, american civilians, oh yeah, Regular
people really had no idea ofwhat we were doing.
Yeah, because we were doing allkind of not shady stuff.
But we were doing a lot of darkops kind of things, you know,
trying to chase all Osama BinLaden yes, all his henchmen, and

(01:35:24):
no, that's not stuff you'veheard of.
For example, in 2005, whenHurricane Katrina hit and they
had a massive earthquake inPakistan, I have a piece of
paper with my name on it thatsaid I got this award or this

(01:35:45):
medal for Hurricane Katrina.
I never stepped a foot inLouisiana and American NATO aid
to Pakistan at that time was acover for the SEALs to go

(01:36:14):
capture a guy.
But with all the otherdevastation and all the busy,
we're here, we're here, we'rehere it went unnoticed.

Speaker 4 (01:36:24):
Yeah, you guys are doing demonstrations while the
real plan is being carried out.

Speaker 6 (01:36:30):
Yeah, yes, yes, we're there, we're there on the
premise of we're here to help.

Speaker 4 (01:36:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Diversionary action yeah, yeah,yeah yeah.
Diversionary action Right yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:36:44):
I mean, I'll never say that senior leaders were
wrong, from the president ondown to the Department of
Defense.
There was something lost intranslation.

(01:37:05):
From the Department of Defenseto those people that had to
actually serve on the line.
We would just ride around intrucks and hope you don't run
over a bomb.
That's no way to live.
That's craziness.
What's the matter, Beth?

(01:37:28):
You okay.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
I'm fine.

Speaker 4 (01:37:33):
Most things that I've studied in military history.
Hardly anything ever goesaccording to plan.
Correct.
It could be the most geniusplan on paper, but it never goes
the way it's supposed to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
I don't know how your poor mother slept.

Speaker 6 (01:37:44):
I don't either.
I mean, you're the only onewith insight on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Prayed every night Hard.

Speaker 4 (01:37:59):
Yeah, that's a whole other topic.
That's a whole other topic.

Speaker 6 (01:38:01):
That's a whole other side yeah, yeah, yeah, that that
puts a whole new twist on howstrong is your faith.
You know, yeah, not only fromthe battlefield point of it, but
from those people whose kids,whatever you know.

Speaker 4 (01:38:22):
It's tough.

Speaker 6 (01:38:23):
And then you have to come back and try to assimilate
into life, right?
Because while you're gone, yourwife's taking care of the house
, taking care of the kids, doingall of those everyday things
that you would normally do ifyou were there.
And when you come back and youtry to fit in, she's already got
some rhythm yeah in.

Speaker 3 (01:38:41):
She's already got.
Yeah, it's hard rhythm, yeah,it's hard.

Speaker 6 (01:38:43):
yeah, because you have to try and get some sort of
normality after the chaos, andit's some some people.
Like I said, some people dealwith it better than others, like
, luckily, my wife has had thatsame experience, so for us to

(01:39:05):
deal with it.
We have each other when a lotof people don't.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
To clarify that she was in the military also.
That's the reason she has thesame experience as he did.

Speaker 3 (01:39:21):
That's what I wondered, I kind of figured that
.

Speaker 6 (01:39:24):
I thought it was implied.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
I'm old, I have to be told.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
I don't think it was told.
I think you were the VA.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
It wasn't told.

Speaker 3 (01:39:35):
But I was piecing together.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
Because I think earlier on you said something.
But yeah, just because sheworks at the VA doesn't mean she
has experiences.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
Right, no, no, no.
I was just saying we.
We said that she worked at theVA, but we didn't go on and say
that she was active duty.
She was active duty too, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
Maybe that's the way I should have addressed it too.

Speaker 6 (01:40:02):
Yeah, maybe that's the way I should have addressed
it, but the best part about herbeing active duty as well as the
same time as me I didn't haveto share a room with another guy
.
We got to stay.
We got to stay together.
So that was that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
That's really the only advantage that we had and I
think last week I was sayingyou know um trying to, I think
it was on here you, you can talkto Margie all you want about
shop talk, you know, and.
But at the end of the day she'snot 100% going to understand and
it's like you guys did almost100% understand, I think that's.

(01:40:35):
I mean even you know, no onereally can get that anymore
because most people don't workthe same job and you know, be
able to talk about theirstresses about work and have the
other one 100% agree, likethat's.
I'm sure that was nice at thetime, you know, just to be able
to bond just simply over that,even knowing someone is in the

(01:40:56):
same shoes and dealing with thesame finances, dealing with,
yeah, all the same strugglestogether.

Speaker 6 (01:41:03):
Yeah, and then and then if you're married and have
kids and you're both acting dude, you got to find somebody to
watch your kids.
Then you get back after a yearyour kids are a little skittish
and shy.
Right.
Because you haven't been thereRight.
And if they're babies, that'seven worse.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, luckily ourswas old enough to kind of

(01:41:26):
understand, but not reallyunderstand, yeah.
But now he's gotten older andhe starts asking more questions
and then you know it's like, ok,that's why you had to be gone.
Yeah, that's why you had to begone so long.
That's why you did this.
That's why these things to begone yeah, that's why you had to
be gone so long.
That's why you did this.
That's why these thingshappened to me.
But all in all, like he's, he'svery well rounded as far as his

(01:41:55):
culture, or just everybody'sculture, because he's gotten to
live all these different places.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
You know where most people in yorksville are still
here yeah, I had a um, exactlymy mom's good friend from high
school.
She married someone who was anavy seal and they were in um
italy for I don't know three,four years washington,
washington State, new York,maine, I think, germany, maybe a

(01:42:24):
year.
But it's just neat seeing thembecause they're 21 and 19 now
and I mean just yeah, justlooking.
I think they did end upsettling in the Indian Valley
district, but I mean, just justeven looking at them compared to
others the same age like youcan tell that their dynamic is
just more rounded.

(01:42:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:42:46):
And you, for the most part.
You can see those people whohave been in the military just
simply how they carry themselvesin in any situation you knowhmm
.
You know, oh yeah.
They don't freak out inemergency situations.
They don't freak out if theyget stressed out.

Speaker 3 (01:43:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:43:05):
You know, but it's more you can tell by the way
they carry themselves and howthey present themselves to other
people.

Speaker 3 (01:43:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
Now do you feel that, with you both being in the
military, you raised your childa little stricter than?

Speaker 6 (01:43:22):
A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
I just asked because my daughter's husband, his
parents, were both in theservice.

Speaker 6 (01:43:30):
He'd all be messing around, doesn't he?

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
Nope, my granddaughter.
She'll get in the car on Fridaynight to go.
We have a houseboat she goes to.
She says, papa, did you bringmy iPad?
He said yeah, why?
She said, lost the TV again.
Why did you lose your TV?
I told Mommy supper wasn't anygood, I had to sit there and eat

(01:43:52):
it.
And she's six.
But he, I mean mean they keepher in line and they have.
She has no electronics at homebesides a TV.
So yeah, I have to remind herthat's grandma's iPad that's
grandma's iPad.
When you go home, that'sgrandma's iPad, yeah did we

(01:44:12):
discuss your official rank?

Speaker 4 (01:44:14):
did you no?
So what was it?
Uh staff sergeant uh, e6, okay,so what?

Speaker 6 (01:44:19):
was it uh staff sergeant, uh, e6.
Okay, so with that then you getobviously a little bit more
responsibility so you had tolead as well.
Yes, okay yes and noteverybody's a good leader.
I, I hope I tried to do my best, you know.
I hope that everybody that Ihad contact with or was their

(01:44:42):
supervisor or whatever, tooksomething from me that you know
they can apply to their life.
Right, because that's what Idid, like I had good leaders and
I had bad leaders.
So I just kind of picked thosethings from those people you
know to help shape my leadershipabilities and then they send
you to like leadership school.

(01:45:02):
But it's just a big party isall it is.
You sit in class for eight hoursa day.
You're not at your home station, you're somewhere new, all
these people you don't know.
So you, you know, you go to thebar or whatever you know, and
then you bond over that, becausenot everybody at that time was

(01:45:28):
a drinker, so they would stillcome, then they would drive, but
they would still come just tohang out.
So you get to know these peopleBecause you're spending three
months with these people youknow from everywhere and it's
just and talking to them andsharing everybody's experience.
This was before the war, uh,sharing everybody's experiences,

(01:45:52):
just on what they've donethroughout their military career
.
You know some people did awhole lot more than I did.
Some people did a whole lotless.
You know it just depended onwhere you were at that time in
your, your career.
So I mean, I think the best, Ithink the best assignment I had

(01:46:15):
was germany.
I love germany.
It was so much fun, there's somuch to do.
They had good food.
Yeah, I gained 30 pounds inthree years.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
That was pretty good.
To average 10 pounds a year,that was not bad.
At least you didn't gain it allat once.

Speaker 6 (01:46:35):
Being fat in the Army is not a thing.
I mean it's a thing now, itwasn't a thing then.
In the army is not a thing.
I mean, it's a thing.
It's a thing now, it wasn't athing then.
And the military is conformingto society instead of society.
Can those kids coming?
in conforming to the militaryrules and regulations, like
we're assimilating to society at, for example, um, females could

(01:46:56):
never have their hair downright, unless it was short.
You know, you had to be in abun, you had to be able to wear
your hat, it had to not lookcrazy, you know.
But now they can have ponytailsas long as they are a certain
length.
You know there are people whohave their hair done a certain

(01:47:17):
way.
Half of them can't even weartheir hat because it looked you
know, yeah, and you look crazy,like they're sloppy.
It bothers me.
It bothers me.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
I don't even like going to the store on post,
because it's just I don't likegoing to McDonald's because
sometimes you don't know who'sworking behind the counter.
Are you working or not?
You know, there's no uniforms,yeah Nothing, yeah yeah.
And that's another argument isyou know, we get farther and

(01:47:52):
farther away from the structure.
Because people are desperate forwork anymore and they just
start bending for people and theemployees start making the
rules about how they're going todress and how they're going to
present themselves, and it'sjust yeah, we're getting so far
away from that discipline andstructure.
That again, I think it's.
Another thing that makes itdifficult for people to come to

(01:48:14):
Christ is because it's all aboutdiscipline.
I mean a lot of your life youhave to change.
About discipline, I mean a lotof your life you have to change.
You have to give up a lot ofthose things and learn to have
self-control and uh, and we'rejust getting farther and farther
away from that in every aspectof our lives.
It's just everybody can go towork in sweatpants.
It's like I'm just it's notgood.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
When I graduated from nursing school, you wear white
hose, white shoes and crispwhite dress and your hat.
Yeah, people they're cleanevery day, right yeah, on the
floor now you can't tell a nursefrom you know a visitor yeah,
you're half afraid to go and belike.

Speaker 4 (01:48:48):
Can you help me?

Speaker 6 (01:48:49):
because, you don't know yeah I mean you went to
nursing school when?

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
no, no eight, the year prior 87, but we still had
to that I had mrs labellemilitary nurse better your
uniform, better crisp when youwalked and those corners better
been tight when you made thatbed absolutely yeah I always

(01:49:19):
thought she looked at like mrsbeaver on leave it to beaver or
whatever that show was.

Speaker 6 (01:49:23):
Leave it to beaver oh , she was june yep, that hair
perfect right and and she shespoke with.
When she spoke to you, it wasfirm and stern.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
Oh, definitely.

Speaker 6 (01:49:40):
And if you did something wrong, it was still,
you know, stern and firm, it wasjust louder, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:49:48):
I was five four or five.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
But, you learned a lot from her, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:49:53):
I was four or five and I would get this bad
bronchitis every year and I hadto be hospitalized and back then
they put you under this tent.
Yes, I hated that tent.
I mean, I'd my parents leave,I'd cry.
But I still remember the nurse,I still remember how she looks.
I remember her name, nurseburger, and yeah, she was tough,

(01:50:14):
even to me, like, but I justremember her still talking to my
parents and just, yeah, she wasa tough customer but I came out
all right.
You know, she got her job done.
That's, that's the mostimportant thing.
Uh, yeah, so they leave animpression absolutely only the

(01:50:35):
good ones, sometimes the badones.
Like if they're really bad.

Speaker 6 (01:50:39):
Yeah, I have a few.
I've had a few of those and asI've gotten older and my career
progressed, I'm like you werejust not smart oh yeah.
Just I mean we all have that.

Speaker 3 (01:50:59):
We all have that.
That's what I was about to saywe all have that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:01):
Sometimes you're looking at your people above you
.
You're like where are youcoming from?
Like, do you even know whatwe're doing here?

Speaker 3 (01:51:09):
yeah, yeah like having a postmaster that has
never delivered mail and tryingto structure yeah, trying to
tell you how to do your routeyeah, I'm like, well, you don't
even oh, do you get to drive thecar that's on the wrong side of
the?
well I'm, I no longer delivermail.
I quit last year when part-timewasn't part-time, you were.

(01:51:33):
I wanted to be home with my sona little bit, um, but, yes, I.
But I also straddled, so Iwould just drive like a.
I had a CRV, I had a caravan.
My dad made like a bench to gointo the middle, like he took
the console out, and so I wouldsit in the middle, use my left
foot and then deliver.
Gosh, yeah, yeah.

(01:51:56):
But it was a lot moreconvenient with the right-handed
vehicle, like their right-handdrive.
Um, I did like the rural routes, so it was.
Half of them were like the boxcars or you know, and then the
other half were the more countryroutes and you needed like
four-wheel drive, so theyrequired your own vehicle.

(01:52:17):
So it was was fun, though I didreally enjoy it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:25):
But there again, where did the post office ever
come to the idea that you haveto tear up your own vehicle?

Speaker 3 (01:52:30):
Exactly, I don't know .
I mean you get paid for it.
It was like vehicle orequipment EMA Is that?
Do you know?
It's government like equipmentmaintenance allowance is what
it's considered?

Speaker 6 (01:52:47):
Yeah, that would be.

Speaker 3 (01:52:48):
That sounds right, yeah, but they um reevaluate it
every January and July, likebased on how the economy is.
So you would get paid, like forthe gas and the maintenance of
the vehicle, but you would haveto like replace your own brakes,
you know, any struts, anythingnew that you needed, any tires
gas like.
It was all included in that ema, so it was like an extra

(01:53:11):
stipend that you got on yeah, Iguarantee you.

Speaker 4 (01:53:14):
Riders on the pony express had to supply their own
mount Right, roger, I'm positive.

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
Yeah right See how they treat me.

Speaker 6 (01:53:24):
That would be funny if mom was here.
That'd be funnier.
She said something the otherday.
She said oh, she's like.
Oh, I'm older.
This that I said you're olderthan Methuselah.
She didn't think that was funny.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
She didn't think that was funny.
She didn't think I was funny.
No, I thought it was hilarious.
She don't have a sense of humorsometimes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:53:52):
We won't tell her.
You said that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:53):
I don't care.
Tell her You're like do it.

Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
You don't get picked on quite as much since Michael's
not here.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
No, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
We spare you most of the time.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:06):
I appreciate that.
But Beth, every time she gets achance she'll jump right in
there.

Speaker 1 (01:54:11):
Oh, I do not, I do Every now and then.

Speaker 3 (01:54:16):
And we ignore Nick's text messages.

Speaker 4 (01:54:18):
Yeah, Like is anybody even paying attention?
Are they as long as when hetalks?

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
It was just like this past week.
He was throwing us some topicideas, crickets, nothing.
I think it was like 36 hourslater he's like I'm genuinely
concerned if my phone's evenworking.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
Well, that one text was pretty long.
Oh, I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:54:44):
Yeah, I have the excuse of a little toddler
running around being a heathen.
I don't know what their excuseswere.

Speaker 1 (01:54:51):
I think I was Amazon shopping on my phone.
Oh man.

Speaker 6 (01:54:59):
Well, I don't think we hit any of your topics that
you threw out there.

Speaker 4 (01:55:06):
No, and I didn't plan to today.
Once he said that you werecoming on, I was like okay,
we're going.

Speaker 2 (01:55:11):
Well, I thought it would be kind of cool to have
somebody that listened.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:55:16):
Yeah, and there's some stuff out there, but this
is just one of those topics thatwe would never have the
opportunity to get exactly yeahyou know, and it's a very
important topic, it's a very,it's very, it's a very tough
topic.
It doesn't have, it doesn't haveeasy answers, but it's
definitely something.

(01:55:36):
As I always say, the onlyreason I want to do this podcast
because it's useful forsomebody, because it helps
somebody.
If I'm not doing the onlyreason I want to do this podcast
because it's useful forsomebody, because it helps
somebody if I'm not doing that,I don't want to be doing it.
I'd rather be doing somethingelse to be honest, I don't do
this for my own enjoyment.

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
I enjoy it, but yeah, that's not my purpose.
I would see these numbers ofpeople listening.
I'm like, no, no one'slistening.

Speaker 4 (01:55:53):
Hey, I know we have at least one listener, you know
um, you know we can, we can picktopics every week, but this is
real.
This is coming from somebodywho has experienced the military
life that has done his service,and it's an extraordinary thing

(01:56:13):
and you don't get to talk topeople like this every day to to
see what it's.
We all think we know what it'slike you know.
But until you actually talk tosomebody, you know it's.
It's very fulfilling to talk tosomebody like that that you
know it does give you a greaterunderstanding of what some
people actually do sacrifice forthe country.

(01:56:35):
Yeah, and like he said heprobably wouldn't have even gone
as deep as he did, had rogernot even been here, you know.
So it's nice that everything hasto.
Everything has to fit togetherand come together for a reason
and and I think you were herefor a reason yeah, you know, at
the end of the day, I hope youknow that this, you did get
something from it, that it willhelp you in that next step, you

(01:56:58):
know, in your, in your journey,for your faith.
You know that you can takesomething from this and go.
You know what I can build onthat.
That's something I can moveforward with because I've
learned something.
That's the other great thing.
It's like I've learnedsomething, that's for sure, and
I can take that on my faithjourney too and be like you know
what, maybe I think Iunderstood that, but, you know,

(01:57:21):
perhaps I need to look a littlefurther.
Yeah, and that's what it's allabout.
I think we all need tounderstand each other's paths in
life and we need to be able totalk about it.
Yeah.
Because, again, that's why a lotof things don't get resolved
because nobody talks anything.
You know, nobody's willing tosit down, talk, help each other
out, yep you know, um growtogether yeah, right, yeah, just

(01:57:43):
exactly hey snap you got abutton on there.

Speaker 3 (01:57:49):
Yeah, I don't know which button it is okay, don't
push it yeah don't push I needto make little pictures of yeah,
I need a little symbol forsomeone little emo emojis.

Speaker 2 (01:57:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:58:02):
But you know it's scary to just be like, yeah,
come on the show, we have noidea what he's going to say we
have no idea, but I think that'sthe great part about it.
It's a little scary Becauseit's going to get real and
that's what we should be doing.
You know we can pick a topic ofthe Bible every week.

Speaker 2 (01:58:18):
Yeah, but we talk about real stuff, though.
We do.

Speaker 4 (01:58:21):
But we can have a good time and sometimes you
don't realize the levity of whatyou're talking about, until you
can have somebody like him comeon and actually, like I said,
it gets real.

Speaker 3 (01:58:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:58:34):
Because we're not just talking about it Now.
We're actually listening to hisexperiences and we have to
consider things that perhaps wehaven't considered before, and
hopefully that's the same thingfor the listener.

Speaker 1 (01:58:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:58:46):
You know is that I don't care if five people catch
this podcast tomorrow.
I guarantee all five of thosepeople are going to come out of
it with a better understandingof if it's just the military or
you know what we discussed.
You know, spiritually, I thinkit all.

Speaker 1 (01:59:05):
You know it all helps us continue to grow, definitely
eye-opening for me, because Iwas an American and you watch
the news clips and you watchthis and that and you're like,
yeah, yeah, you know you're, butwe never once think about the
true reality of what oursoldiers are going through what
our boys are going through andthe sacrifices that they're

(01:59:25):
willing to give, just so we cansit here and watch this.

Speaker 4 (01:59:28):
TV, we can hit the button and go to bed.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
We don't think anymore about it yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:59:34):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:59:36):
That was another thing that was kind of
aggravating for us, as we werethere and everybody, like Beth
said, everybody was like yeah,rah, rah, rah.
Didn't feel that yeah.
Meanwhile, I'm wearing 900pounds of gear trying to not get
blown up.
Sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:56):
But we never know that.
I mean we don't think aboutthat, and unless you have
military background, you reallyjust don't know that.
You know, I mean we don't thinkabout that, and unless you have
military background, you reallyjust don't know it.
Men might?
I don't know as a woman, Ididn't, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:00:10):
Yeah, the only soldiers I've ever heard talk
about it like that are the onesthat have just started out and
haven't experienced anything yet.

Speaker 3 (02:00:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:00:17):
But the changes you know the more work experience
they have.

Speaker 1 (02:00:21):
It's not quite so uh I worked with a nurse that her
husband was I don't know what hewas in the military.
He'd be home for a while andshe'd be at work and all of a
sudden he'd be gone yeah and hemight have been going for a week
before she knew where he reallywas.
He'd be going for three or fourmonths, and then he'd come or
if she even knew where he wasyeah, and she looked.

(02:00:42):
I you know, don't know how shelived.
Yeah, you know, I don't knowwhat branch he was ever in, but
it was.
It was always top secret whathe did I mean you.

Speaker 6 (02:00:57):
You, you figure out how to navigate that.
It's like when that when youcome home, like I was saying
before, as the person comingback into the lives of these
people, you have to figure outhow to deal with them.
They don't figure out how todeal with you because it'll mess
up their routine.
You have to figure out where doyou fit in this puzzle anymore,

(02:01:19):
and it changes every time, youknow, as kids get older or you
get different jobs or you movesomewhere else.
You know it's never the sameand that's frustrating as well,
because we just want to comehome and be normal.
Yeah.
But our normal is not the normalwe left, no, yeah, but our

(02:01:39):
normal is not the normal.

Speaker 4 (02:01:40):
We left.
Yeah, I spent 15 years in thestair wood industry and then
moved on to steel, where I'vebeen for almost six years, but
it's not anything like whatyou're talking about.
I think a lot of people don'tunderstand that.
Yeah, it's his occupation, butit's not just an occupation.

Speaker 3 (02:01:59):
Yeah, the old thing is when you go home you forget
about it.

Speaker 4 (02:02:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's his occupation, but it's not just an
occupation.

Speaker 3 (02:02:01):
Yeah, you know, it's you know, the old thing is when
you go home.

Speaker 4 (02:02:03):
You forget about it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:02:04):
You know until the next day.
But you know, that's not howthat operates.

Speaker 6 (02:02:08):
No, no, that's you know.
And my favorite, my mostfavorite thing is I like to talk
to the old guys.
Yeah, so the World War II guys,which there aren't many left,
the Vietnam guys, the Korea guys, you know their stories are
amazing For me because I'veexperienced that same thing.

(02:02:31):
They're amazing.
I love them to death.
I could sit and talk to an oldguy for hours, tell me about
what you did.
Some of it's pretty hairy, butyou know, I mean everybody

(02:02:51):
pretty much has the same sametype of story.
Right, the places and you knowthe names are different, but the
situation is the same yeah, andthe technology is a little
different.
But yeah yeah yeah, buttechnology really didn't figure
into our piece of the puzzle.
You know where, where I was,the technology is at like a

(02:03:15):
higher headquarters buildingwhere they have one room
dedicated to nothing but TVs anddrones, you know, and then they
have another room, that's.
They're putting pins in a map,like they did in, you know,
world War II.
Yeah.
You know, and then another one,depending on what your job was
or your role you would have.

(02:03:36):
They would set up a sand table.
You know which is A?

Speaker 2 (02:03:41):
big sandbox.

Speaker 6 (02:03:43):
No, that's not.
It doesn't have sand in it,right.
But if you look back to likeWorld War II, right where they
were drawn into dirt, it's likethat, except it's just not in
dirt anymore.
It's something that you can see, you know and you can see with
the technology.
You can see the 3D stuff.
You can see how many stories ofa.
See, you know and you can seewith the technology.
You can see the 3D stuff.
You can see how many stories ofa building you know, you can

(02:04:04):
see.
You know, if there's empty spaceon either side you can see, is
there a big, tall building whereyou might get shot from.
You know all of those thingsand that's where the drone piece
comes into play too, and it'sjust it.
It's interesting, you know.

(02:04:25):
And then the further I got inmy career because I was always
like, why do we do this?
Why, you know, this is, this isdumb or this doesn't make sense
but as I got further my mycareer and learned from
different people and worked incertain situations or certain
places, you kind of understand,right, because I worked at it

(02:04:49):
like a brigade.
So that'd be Michael, right?
So Michael lays out all theplans, types up all the orders
on what each person is going todo.
Then that goes down to yourleadership, which comes down to

(02:05:10):
you, and at that level youfigure out how things are
written and why they're writtena certain way, right.
And then that started to makesense to me and I'm like man.
I've been confused for 30 years.
You know it's just, but youdon't ever get that information

(02:05:32):
unless you've worked in, youknow that, that, that
environment, not not just thepiece, just what have you done
outside of that you know what.
Where did you work?
What did you do?
You know, and I got luckyenough that I could.
I could do those things youknow.
Work in different areas whereyou see, okay on a bigger scale

(02:05:57):
this is where.
this is where I fit in yourscale.
This is where I fit in, so Imean, not everybody gets to
experience that.
I was just lucky enough to beable to do that.

Speaker 2 (02:06:13):
Yeah, what are you going to say, dad?
I was going to say that's thereason you said the FBI is going
to call.

Speaker 6 (02:06:20):
Well, I mean, technically I'm a felon.
What's that I?

Speaker 2 (02:06:27):
said, technically I'm a felon.

Speaker 6 (02:06:30):
Yeah, it's just because of my rifle, is all.

Speaker 2 (02:06:37):
Oh well, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:06:43):
I hope cops don't listen to this.

Speaker 3 (02:06:46):
So if this is taken down tomorrow morning, we know
why yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:06:50):
CIA has confiscated this little podcast.
I'd be quite proud of that.

Speaker 6 (02:06:59):
Why'd you shut down?
I got busted, no.

Speaker 4 (02:07:06):
Well, sir, how do you want to button up this episode?
What are your final thoughts on, you know, being here, having
this experience, everything thatwe've discussed?

Speaker 6 (02:07:21):
I enjoyed it.
When he asked he's like, didyou want to be a guest on the
gop?
I said I'd love to.
Yeah, there was no hesitation?
No, no, not at all.
You know, because, like I said,listening to it right now I can
put faces to voices, wherebefore it's just the only one I
understood was his.

Speaker 4 (02:07:44):
Really, because I don't understand him at all 55
years of experience.

Speaker 6 (02:07:50):
You kind of learn to decipher the things here and
there.
But yeah, I enjoyed it, Ilearned a different side, but
yeah, I enjoyed it, or is thereany?
I learned a different side ofwhat faith is or it can be, and
not just you know.

(02:08:11):
Being a C&E person, you know.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:08:17):
At least see, he knows what C&E is.

Speaker 6 (02:08:19):
Yeah, he sure does I got a whole college degree.

Speaker 3 (02:08:23):
I know lots of stuff I was gonna ask if there were
any takeaways that you wouldwant us list.
Are not us listeners thelisteners to take away from it?

Speaker 6 (02:08:36):
from my experience, or the podcast as a whole just
whatever we talked about tonight, I guess yeah well, hopefully
you know somebody who's thinkingabout joining the military
hears this and then they canmake a better informed choice of
what they want to do, becauseit's not you know, take lightly

(02:08:57):
no, it's, it's not, and somepeople would be like oh.

Speaker 2 (02:09:02):
Sounds like fun.
I'm bored.

Speaker 3 (02:09:05):
Or I want to travel, so this is a good.

Speaker 2 (02:09:08):
That is not how you travel.

Speaker 6 (02:09:09):
Yeah, I mean, you don't have to pay for travel.

Speaker 3 (02:09:12):
Sure but.

Speaker 6 (02:09:13):
And you don't have to pay to move your stuff.
Yeah, but moving every threeyears, four years, it gets kind
of like it's a lot yeah, that's,and I've heard.

Speaker 3 (02:09:24):
I've heard people say that and I'm like you might
need to look into what you'regetting into, you know yeah, I
mean it's a, it's a lot yeahlike I'm on my third house in 10
years.

Speaker 6 (02:09:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:09:39):
That's insane that normal people don't do that,
yeah, yeah, you know just whenyou think you're adjusting, and
then it's like, hey, yeah let'sgo somewhere else.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:09:50):
Like like them, they've been living out there
for you know 20 some odd years,right.

Speaker 3 (02:09:55):
Since the pony express Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:10:02):
You know, and have you thought about moving?
No, not really.
Yeah, see.

Speaker 6 (02:10:06):
Beth, have you thought about moving?

Speaker 1 (02:10:07):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 3 (02:10:09):
My grandparents moved two fall yeah, two Octobers ago
, but they were in their housefor 47 years.
The only reason they moved isto find a one-story ranch that's
easier on their legs.
That was the only reason.
Yeah 47 years.
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:10:32):
I think we've been in this house 15 years.
We moved quite a bit, butthat's because we'd buy a house,
fix it up, sell it buy a house,fix it up and sell it Yep.
The last one we fixed up italmost caused a divorce.

Speaker 2 (02:10:44):
So yeah, that's what I decided you better keep this
one.

Speaker 1 (02:10:48):
We're just going to stay.

Speaker 3 (02:10:48):
That's what my father-in-law keeps telling us
we should do is buy, cause youknow we're fixing a child like.
I don't want to be just focusedon it's a great way of income,
but I think maybe working on oneon the side, making that a
rental, not necessarily flippingand adjusting and flipping and

(02:11:09):
adjusting I I don't know ifthat's because I have a hard
time adjusting the last one wesold.

Speaker 1 (02:11:15):
We were still, we lived in our home that we're in
now.
Okay, yeah, we sold it beforeit was finished.
It got so ugly I can't see thefinished product in my mind.

Speaker 3 (02:11:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:11:28):
And he can, and then we'd just fight and bicker about
it.
Mm-hmm.
I'm done.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
It's not worth all the hassle, no, it's not, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:11:37):
And then the business , his work, started wanting him
to work six days a week and wewould have to pay people to
finish it.
And it wasn't getting done theway we wanted it.
Yeah, it's like nope, we'redone.

Speaker 6 (02:11:51):
Yeah, but I am back to the military thing.
I also am of the belief thateveryone should do it.
Yeah.
Male or female Right, I'm all.
I don't want to say conscriptor draft, but I think everybody
should do two years, just so youunderstand how you get the

(02:12:13):
things that you get to do.
Yeah.
And understand what it takesfor you to be able to do that as
well.

Speaker 3 (02:12:22):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 (02:12:23):
And the toll that it takes on the families of those
people, not only those peoplewho served and come back, but
those people who didn't comeback.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah.
And that's where a lot ofmilitary people get hung up

(02:12:46):
Right when you see your friendsdie in a horrific way, they get
hung up on that, and that's theonly thing they see when they
come back.
Yeah, you know.
And then if you've been onmultiple tours, you still have
that.

Speaker 3 (02:13:02):
you just have it yeah , you're carrying it like a
survivor's guilt why did, yeah,why?
Yeah yeah, why them?

Speaker 6 (02:13:09):
not me exactly yeah yeah, I don't know.
I think everybody should do it.
I, I enjoyed my time, you know,other than those things, but 20
years went fast.

Speaker 3 (02:13:24):
I always hear that.

Speaker 6 (02:13:27):
Like to the point where you know.
The initial intent when Ijoined the military was oh, I'm
going to go to school, right,I'm 18.
I get sent to a place that hasno drinking age Right and you're
with people from you know allwalks of life, so you get caught
up in that as well.

Speaker 3 (02:13:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:13:49):
You know, because in certain places you can't even
leave the base.
So that's all, that's all youhave, that's all you know, and
everybody who's there right isyour family.
Yeah.
Right, and you have to figureout how to deal with their you
know idiosyncrasies or you knowtheir little tics, you know, and

(02:14:17):
you get people from Wisconsinwho you got to try and figure
out how what they're saying.
Right, I have a good friend wholives in wisconsin.
Love that dude to death, but Idon't understand nothing he's
talking about not one thing mydad.

Speaker 3 (02:14:33):
Uh, I'm sure he wouldn't mind me, I don't know,
maybe he would mind me sayingthis, but I'm gonna it anyway.
But when he was stationed inGermany, the only thing he knew
how to say was one more beer,please.
Well, in German.
In German.
Yeah, of course Ein Bier bitteYep, yep, he still likes his
German beers.

Speaker 6 (02:14:53):
I love my German beer .
I don't drink it as often as Iused to, yeah, but I like a good
Guinness every once in a while.
German beer is very good.
Your dad's a smart individual.
I think I could be a friendwith that guy, yeah.

(02:15:15):
Yeah.
I mean plus, there's the tourismyou can go to.
You can go to the CzechRepublic, you can go to France
you know, you can see all ofGermany.
If you get on a train, you can,you know, go to Paris.
Get on a train, you can go toLondon.

Speaker 3 (02:15:35):
I just had a friend do that for like two weeks in
August.

Speaker 6 (02:15:39):
Yeah, and it's amazing, the places you see and
even just the scenery is, youknow, is beautiful.

Speaker 3 (02:15:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:15:46):
Plus all the history that's there.
Yeah, you know we had a when Iwent to a leadership school in
Germany.
The barracks that we werestaying in still had Nazi
helmets over the doorways, likethe Keystone had a Nazi helmet
on it.
They had pictures of Elvis whenhe was there.

Speaker 1 (02:16:09):
I mean it was cool.

Speaker 6 (02:16:10):
Well, yeah, you know just from the historical aspect
of it.

Speaker 4 (02:16:13):
Yes, michael, it took us almost two and a half hours,
but we finally got Elvis in.

Speaker 6 (02:16:26):
Aren't you proud.
I mean, it was everywhere itwas.
It wasn't?
It was very interesting.

Speaker 4 (02:16:29):
I had a very good time while I was there, went to
a lot of, went to a lot ofplaces but you know we're going
to catch heck for this episodebeing two and a half hours long,
because we're never going tohear the end of it.
I mean, I never hear the end ofhow long my sermon was.

Speaker 3 (02:16:43):
So strike two hey all right, we could try to split it
up.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:16:47):
You could probably make two parts out of this.
If you want, yeah, then it'lljust erase fully.
Yeah, I'm not going to do that,yep.

Speaker 3 (02:16:56):
He trained me, but he didn't train me too well on
this thing.
Yeah Well.

Speaker 4 (02:17:04):
Well, any final thoughts?

Speaker 1 (02:17:07):
Why is everybody looking at me you?

Speaker 6 (02:17:09):
ain't said nothing the whole day.

Speaker 1 (02:17:11):
I usually don't Plus guess what.
No, yeah, I thought you shoulddo the interview.

Speaker 2 (02:17:20):
No, I did two weeks ago, sid did last week.
You weren't here.
Hmm, don't look at me with thembig, sad puppy dog eyes.

Speaker 3 (02:17:37):
I'm not going to let you off the hook and, to be fair
, I don't think Roger could Doit right now.
Thank, you.
You're welcome.
Alright, are we ready?
No, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:17:50):
I can't remember your first name.
I was going to say Roger's son.

Speaker 6 (02:17:57):
Rich.

Speaker 1 (02:17:59):
I was close.
I'm going to call him Rick.
I mean I've been called worse.
Roger's son Rich, rich, rich.
Okay, that's close.

Speaker 6 (02:18:04):
I'm going to call him Rick.

Speaker 1 (02:18:09):
I mean, I've been called worse.
All right, that's the memory ofwhat you heard from me tonight.
Was that?
Oh, dear Heavenly Father, sweet, precious Jesus, we just thank
you for the time that you havegiven us here tonight and thank
you for Rich and the words thathe has shared with us and opened
all of our eyes here ascivilians that hopefully that we

(02:18:29):
will go out and we will prayfor our military, because we
just don't know what they reallygo through and the sacrifices
that they make for us.
Dear Father God, and we ask thatyou just continue to put that
hedge of protection around himand his family, dear Father God,
as they travel back home.
Dear Lord, and we just ask thatyou just be with each and every

(02:18:49):
one of us as we travel to ourhome tonight, lord, and that you
protect us In Jesus' name.
We pray, amen, amen.

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