Untimely Ends: The Apostles

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What would you die for? The twelve apostles faced this question with unflinching conviction, spreading Christianity across the ancient world despite knowing the brutal fates that awaited them. Their stories of martyrdom reveal both the extraordinary courage of these ordinary men and the threatening power their message held against established religious and political systems.

Journey with us through the forgotten histories of Jesus' closest followers after the resurrection. From Andrew preaching for two days while dying on an X-shaped cross in Greece, to Bartholomew being skinned alive for converting a king to Christianity, to Thomas meeting his end by spears in distant India – each apostle's story demonstrates remarkable faithfulness under unimaginable circumstances.

Contrary to popular belief, only three disciples were actually crucified, with others facing beheading, stoning, or being sawn in half. Their missionary journeys spanned astonishingly far – reaching Scotland, Russia, Turkey, India, and Ethiopia – in an age without modern transportation. These men weren't merely spreading religious ideas; they were testifying to events they personally witnessed, willing to endure torture rather than deny what they had seen.

The legacy of these apostles endures in surprising ways. St. Andrew's X-shaped cross appears on Scotland's flag. Thomas's finger may still exist as a relic in a Christian church in Mazul. Their collective witness built the foundation of a faith that would transform the Western world.

Whether you're a lifelong believer or simply fascinated by history's pivotal figures, these accounts of extraordinary courage challenge us to examine our own convictions. What truths would you be willing to die for? Join us for this deep dive into the lives, missions, and ultimate sacrifices of Christianity's founding witnesses.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
said your eyes wobbled.
We'll just say your eyeswobbled Uppy Downy Weeble.
Hey, by the way, you're welcomeon the Uppy Downy.
That was good, perfectly placed, and those of us who got it got
it.
Those of us who didn't.
What are they laughing about?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
What's funny?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I kept waiting and waiting.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I did too, honestly honestly, there were two spots
that I could have used it.
One was early and I was likenot yet, let's hold on to that,
let's put that in the backpocket, like let's just, let's
just keep that for a second.
But there were two people who Iasked did you listen to last
week's podcast?
I'm like oh and I was like oh,don't worry, I'm gonna know if
you listen to the podcast or not.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Give me a half hour, I'm gonna know well, I can tell
you I know stephanie caldwelldoesn't listen, because I'm
telling her I'm on my way herelike 10 minutes ago.
She's like oh, I didn't realizeyou still did that.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm like, yeah, yeah, they'll do it, yeah yeah,
apparently you don't payattention, hey, um, we are gonna
.
Oh, I'm we're recording, Ipresume yeah so I have not made
an official announcement.
Shall I do that?
Go ahead?
Yeah, so next week will be mylast week on the podcast.

(01:22):
Next week will will be a as aregular, but as a regular, oh
yeah.
I'll still come back.
Certainly I'll still come back,but as a regular.
Next week will be my last weekand again the desire for myself
is to be able to focus on Sundaymorning service.
I want to jump back into someof the tech stuff.
I really want to push for somelive stream stuff again, maybe
not everything, but some stuffthat we can live stream.

(01:42):
Sid, you had said you knowthere were some times you
couldn't be here.
You had to be at home orwherever and you wanted to be
able to watch but you couldn'tand we made the choice to cancel
live stream because we wereseeing attendance drop and we
felt like giving the option tostay home was detrimental.
I think now we have a solidenough situation that we're
probably okay to go back to livestream.

(02:03):
So that's my desire.
So I'm going to start to focusa little more time on live
stream or on Sunday morningservices, getting us in a better
place.
And for those of you who werehere last week, you know the
vision for the move of thesanctuary, and so that was the
big kind of like.
I really want to get into thatand start spending a lot of my
time there writing grants andjust whatever we can do to get

(02:26):
us to that point.
So that's my focus right now.
So next week will be my lastweek, but yeah, I'll still be
around.
Has it been four weeks already?
Next week will be four weeks.
Wow, time flies when you'rehaving fun.
Next week will be four weeks.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
And when you get old time flies.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
It certainly does.
I wouldn't know.
Does time fly when you getchubby?
Because then I would know.
Hey, nick, did I tell you thatmy jumpsuit's at the seamstress?
Yeah, my, my, yeah, we talkedabout that last week Is it
fixable.
She is confident that she can doit.
I am not confident that she cando it to my liking.
It's I mean, it's a big job.

(03:05):
It's a huge job, but we'll see.
So she's going to get me backinto it at least one time to
make sure that I'm happy with itbefore we call it done and head
off.
However, I did get my new wigand I got two of my new belts.
I have two more belts yet inthe mail that haven't arrived
yet.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
So did you get your wig monday.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Then I did get it monday.
So sid and I I called sidbecause you know post office
questions go to the, the one whoused to work for the post.
The lady I bought it from paidextra to have it delivered on
sunday, but our post office isclosed on sunday, so it was in
cleveland until monday at 10 30oh, oh, really yeah, and then at

(03:46):
some point monday afternoon 12,31 o'clock, I got a notice it
was available for pickup.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
So they must have piggied it down.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's I.
Well, I figure they probablybecause it was guaranteed for
monday or guaranteed for sunday.
They made sure it was there onmonday, but it was.
It was probably not like inwith the regular mail.
Yeah so it was just strange,but um she should be refunded.
I said the exact same thing.
I told her that.
I said, hey, I'm not upset thatit wasn't here on Sunday.
I even told her.
When she said that, I was likewe're not open on Sundays, we're

(04:28):
not getting it happen, butnever mind, she could have
fedexed it or ups'd it, whichwould have been fine.
But she said well, I only hadyour po box, yes, because you
asked me for my mailing address.
You didn't like if you wouldhave said, hey, I want to ship
this ups anyhow, it doesn'tmatter.
I got it.
It looks terrible right now.
I mean, she did a fantastic job, fits better than any wig I've
ever owned, but it's really flatfrom being in the box.
So trying to find a hairstylist.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
The lady that I tagged.
She has done like a fewdifferent people's, like
funerals, so I didn't know if itwould be.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Is a funeral the same as a wig?
Is a dead person's hair thesame?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
She could just put it on a mannequin, and then there
you go.
Well, usually I go, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
I sit for the cut and the style, because then they
can shape it to my head.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
So they will spray it and do all of the things that
they need to do, shape it on myhead and then I put it on the
mannequin head until Well, youknow, my daughter does all those
real hair dreads.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey maybe shecould, but this it like there.
I think it would intimidate,yeah you have to have a certain
knack for elvis hair too.
Like it's not the lady that I'mgoing to does wigs for little

(05:31):
theater, and so she did myoriginal elvis wig years ago.
But I can't like.
I've called her cell phone andI left her a message.
I called her house phone andleft her a message.
She's really hard.
She's like super doesn't dotechnology at all, so it's hard
to hard to get a hold of her.
Well, she just doesn't answer,like she just won't answer.
So she's gonna be at thetheater this friday, they told

(05:53):
me, so I'm probably gonna pop inand see her and try to say you
know where she lives yeah, yeah,I yeah.
I could definitely stop at herhouse, but she I don't.
So I'm just hoping I can getthem done before competition,
because I even want my old oneto be restyled.
I washed it.
Those things stink so bad whenyou wash them.
It's the worst it really is.

Speaker 4 (06:12):
So any competition news.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Nothing new.
I am looking to sign up for asecond one.
Already it's in September inNew York, so it's only three and
a half hours from here.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Is it like Buffalo, New York?

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Hold on, I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, that'd be like five, I think Buffalo's five
hours.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Let me tell you, but this is a very much so
entry-level contest.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Maybe you should have started there.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
This one's been going on for a long time.
Let's see here what's the nameof that competition feeling the
love pastor what's the name ofthat competition?
Pennsylvania reflections,reflections of the King.

(07:03):
Let's see here, westfield, newYork, so it's just at the corner
of New York.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
Just over the border.
Just over the border, yep, justover the border.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
So it's not a terribly far drive and I thought
I'm driving further to get toIllinois.
So I think Illinois is aneight-hour drive, so this
wouldn't be too terrible.
Check it out.
It's very small.
It's all tracks, no band, alittle more entry level, but
depends on what the prize moneyis.
If it pays well, why not?

Speaker 4 (07:33):
So the competition in Chicago, is it all band, all
band.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
You get no tracks.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
All band.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
All band.
Most of the big competitionsare round one tracks.
You have to provide your tracks.
Round two it'll dwindle down todepending on how many people
obviously compete, but it'susually one song, one track.
And then the round three andthe final round is all band.
Do you have?

Speaker 4 (08:01):
any rehearsal time with these guys, you get nothing
.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Oh, you get their band.
You get their band.
They have a house band and youwork with their band.
So basically I say I want to doPolk Salad Annie.
I have to trust that they'redoing the same version that I'm
doing.
Wow.
So what I've seen of all ofthese competitions, those bands
are so well seasoned that thereare two ways to start Polk Salad
Annie.
You can do the talk part, oryou can just start singing the

(08:26):
song and they will follow youpretty closely, like they just
are good enough that they knowit however, I've never worked
with them before and that justmakes me nervous, so you know
already being a little bitnervous about the competition to
begin with.
That only increases that, andI've never worked with a live
band, even in a small scale, soit'll be interesting.
They've got a, I mean they'vegot a.

(08:47):
They've got horn players, likeit's full bit.
So be curious to see yeahbecause that'll be even
different coming behind youthrough the monitor the whole
deal like that would beintimidating here's what I've
learned anytime you do livemusic, ever the only thing that
matters are the drums yeah, onlything that stay on time.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
If I can stay on time I'll be fine.
The rest of them will follow me.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
I just need to stay on time and I need the drummer
to be able to see me at alltimes.
Yeah, like that's the yeah.
So, yeah, hope for the best.
Well, that'll be interesting.
Yep, it'll be fun.
There's one guy on my facebookwho has bought stuff for me in
the past.
He's he, he uses like aHalloween wig and it's like he's
never had it styled so it'slike matted in the front, like
stuck to his head, and he waslike I'm pretty sure I'm going

(09:29):
to win this.
I'm like say what my friendLike and I'm not being like I
don't think I'm going to win youthink you'm going to mug him in
the parking lot.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
I just want to be clear, so I showed.
Rosalyn, your picture onFacebook.
I said who is that?
She said Elvis.
I said that's Elvis.
Yeah, my Elvis, that's funny.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, I'm excited to get there and to just make it
happen, but I have six showsthis month, six shows plus the
competition, so I'm going to getplenty of practice in before we
get there.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Colonel Parker's pushing you pretty hard.
Huh, yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
August is the same way.
August is completely full.
I can't take another date inAugust.
So I told Alyssa next yearwe're bumping the price in
August.
It's the month everybody wantsElvis.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
It's weird.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
That's when he died, so Elvis week is that week, so
there's a lot of like A lot ofcelebrating, yeah Well.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
What about when he was born?
Why don't they do that?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
January is a pretty popular month as well but it's
not nearly as popular as Augustis.
Yeah, yep, hmm, oh.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
You're going to miss that.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
What was that?
He goes.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
I didn't even see it.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Imagine if you had hit him right in the eye In the
good eye.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Well in the good eye, that would have been a real
problem In the bad eye, it don'tmatter.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Yeah, it don't matter .

Speaker 1 (11:02):
All right.
Well, what are we talking abouttonight, disciples?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
We're doing it.
Huh, we're doing it, we'redoing it.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
This has been what.
Three weeks yeah, three weekswe've been building this one
Since before Easter yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:14):
I'm excited to hear Nick's input.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Oh, he's got a stack of stuff he's printed on.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
A whole bunch of papers there.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Did you have time to study?
Well, I got saint andrew here.
That was my main focus the onethat was really able to get into
a little bit.
I wanted to do this for all 12,but life is very busy right now
.
So, yeah, such is life it'ssoftball season she ain't
playing softball this year?

(11:44):
She's not she didn't want toplay Wow.
So you know, that's well, Ishouldn't say that.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
That's a good thing, yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Nevertheless.
I mean there's a lot of homeprojects going on.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Work is very, very busy, very busy I was telling
Don and Roger before everybodygot here my wife, the only time
her and I will have a daytogether is this coming Saturday
.
Every other day either she'sgot somewhere to be or I have
somewhere to be literally theentire month.
She is going to go to thecompetition with me, so that'll
count for something.
But generally speaking, at hometogether, this Saturday is the

(12:17):
only day and she's already gotmy plans set for me Going to the
greenhouse, buying plants andputting them in the ground.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Well, it's Mother's Day weekend, of course, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
I told him at least you're together.
You know what I got my wife forMother's Day?
I bought her a purple hydrangea.
That I wanted.
Wasn't that nice of me?
Well, at least it wasn't achainsaw.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, that's true, Caitlin said Mom, you haven't
said anything that you want.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I said, caitlin I, mom, you haven't said anything
that you want.
I said, caitlin, I don't needanything.
And so she said again mom, youdidn't say anything that you
want.

Speaker 5 (12:51):
She's a very good gift giver.
But you know what?
I'd like to go on a cruise.
I said I need some new pots andsome potting there you go.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I need to transplant all my plants.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah, there you go I've never seen the holy land
not sure I want to see it rightnow.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
not, not right now.
I don't Not right now, notright now.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Probably not.
Wait a little while.
Yeah, a little while.

Speaker 5 (13:08):
Well, Jarvie always tells me I'm not your mom, so I
don't need to buy you a gift.
So the last two years, father'sDay comes.
You're not my dad.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
I actually told my mom.
I saw this on Facebook.
I told my mom.
I said, hey, you know Mother'sDay is coming up.
I know you're going to beexpecting a gift, but I don't
remember getting an Easterbasket, just saying that's the
same thing to me.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
When I left for vacation, you didn't leave me an
Easter basket.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Fair is fair.
You didn't get me anything.
I ain't getting you nothing.
No way to be, I know, I knowTwo wrongs don't make a right.
That's right, oh boy.
So are we going to talk aboutdisciples, or are?

Speaker 4 (13:50):
we going to keep making stupid jokes.
Who wants to kick it off?

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Does anybody else kind of focus on certain I've
got just like a couple thingsfor each of them I have a
question.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Oh jeez, don't ask, go ahead.
How many of them were crucified, do you?

Speaker 1 (14:07):
know that I could tell you really quickly if I
look at my notes.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
I think all of them.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
But two, no all of them but two, not as many as you
think.
Nope, no, nope, not as many asyou think.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
How many died of a natural death?

Speaker 1 (14:22):
That's what I'm saying how many was beheaded is
a better question.
This is a lot.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
John died of a natural death, yes, but then
there was some speculation thatlike possibly he didn't.
But I also only read that oneplace, whereas everywhere else
said he died naturally.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Well, the notes that I have, there's several that are
like he could have been beatenor stoned to death.
Just based on translation, theycould be a little bit different
.
Here's what I think we need tostart with, because this,
believe it or not, a lot ofpeople do not know who were the
12 disciples.
A lot of people don't actuallyknow who they were.
Sometimes it's hard becausetheir names are changing.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
Correct, Exactly yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
So it's Peter Andrew James.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
That's what all these check marks are for.
You see where I double checked.
I'm like wait a minute, I'vegot different names.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew,
Thomas, Simon, Judas, Iscariot,James, Matthew and Matthias.
Those are all of the disciples.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
Now, wait a minute.
Where did Bartholomew andNathanael come in?
Wasn't one of the original, ordid you say it?
I missed it.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
I said Bartholomew.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
And Matthias was replaced by Judas right.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
Well, he replaced Judas, he replaced.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Judas, Like he was kind of like one of their side.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
He was like a not a fan, but he followed them the
whole way anyway, followed himthe whole way anyway.
Yeah, he was a fanboy, he was afangirl, yeah, yeah, so then he
was a groupie.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
There you go, that's what.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
I was going to say he was a groupie.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Judas was framed so get in there.
Oh geez, oh geez, oh geez, ohgeez.
All right, let's run throughthem.
Who's got what?
What?
Well, nobody answered myquestion yet.
Question oh, how many werecrucified?
How?

Speaker 5 (16:03):
many were crucified.
Three three.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
There's only three.
Yeah, it's three.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
How many were beheaded?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
one one two, two, two james was head beheaded and
matthias yes well again or stoneto death, depending on
translation.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
How many hung themselves?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
One I was going to say.
Does anybody know which onehung themselves?
Let's hope.
I bet there are some who do not.
I'm sure there are some peoplewho are listening who do not,
Because it is a passage ofscripture that gets passed up
because we're only ever focusedon the crucifixion passage of
scripture that gets passed upbecause we're only ever focused
on the crucifixion.
We almost stop the story atthat point and we really don't
like we don't focus on that.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
Which one was boiled in oil and survived.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
John, that sounds terrible.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
So they tried to kill him Didn't work.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Does anybody know where he died?

Speaker 3 (17:05):
I think hold on um like today.
No, never mind.
That wasn't the one.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Ephesus.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
Ephesus yep and don't ask me where that's at, because
I flunked uh geography,geography, world geography,
because I skipped it and went tolunch with Don every day I paid
Craig Reitman to take my nameoff the missing attendance.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yes, all right.

(17:56):
Well, we'll start with my boy,andrew.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Okay, maybe it'll get the get the ball rolling, just
flow in here.
So andrew is actually peter's.
I knew that.
Well, I didn't know that untilI did my research.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Apparently, he was a disciple of John first.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
John the Baptist yes.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
John the Baptist.
So that is how he is connectedto Jesus is that when Jesus is
baptized?
Andrew and Peter witnessed thisand that is how Andrew starts
to follow.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Jesusesus.
So that's the first churchdefect yeah, there you go, yeah
bounce from one church to thenext.
Yeah, looking for the next bestthing, looking for greener
grass.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
Well, he found it, but I'm just like uh it's a good
choice that's all I'm saying.
Yes, so peter and andrew, ofcourse, are fishermen and that
is, you know, in the gospel.
That's how those two have theirmain meeting with Jesus.
As you know, when Jesus says Iwant to make you fishers of men,

(18:58):
you know he's talking to Andrewand Peter.
Now they say Andrew's reallynot mentioned in that passage.
He's only mentioned a littlebit later that you learn that
he's actually Peter's brother.
So according to tradition, heis one of, he's one of Jesus'

(19:24):
most close, closest to him.
So he's like I'm not saying youknow Jesus has a favorite, but
apparently, according totradition, he does.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's me, oh, it's me.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Where is that at?
They didn't write it in theBible.
They skipped that part.
I missed that.
I, just me.
Oh, it's me.
Where is that at?
They?

Speaker 1 (19:42):
didn't write it in the Bible.
They skipped that part.
I missed that, I just know Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
We just kind of skip over that part.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Yeah, we skip that passage in Scripture yeah, so
he's one of Jesus' maindisciples.
Now, after, let's see, afterthe crucifixion, andrew is sent
out into the world and he goes.
This guy goes all over theplace.
Um, he'll go to russia.

(20:08):
What will be russia?
Uh, he goes to, uh, greece,turkey, turkey, scotland,
scotland will be where'scourtney's turkey?
If you know, uh, scotland'sflag is saint the saint andrews
cross it's a blue and white flagand yeah, if you look at it,
it's, it's saint, it's the saintandrews cross um is it over

(20:31):
there behind you?
uh, I don't know.
Oh, I'm sure it is on our uh,on our board, on our wall yeah,
oh yeah, over there, yeah, yeah,yeah, I'm sure it's in there
somewhere, our history teacher.
You do see quite a few crossesin there.
But like, yeah, but he, like Isaid, he preached in so many

(20:53):
different places that I'm surehe could have had influence over
a lot of them.
But of course there is theCivil War connection.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Of course, that influence over a lot of them, um
, but of course, there is thecivil war connection of course,
that was not even possible, onlynick the confederate battle
flag is the saint andrews cross.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
when you see the classic stars and bars, it's the
saint andrews cross and theysay, according to tradition, is
because so many southern peoplewere Scottish, had Scottish
heritage.
That that's why they adoptedthe St Andrew's Cross for that,
so you knew I'd get it in there.
Yeah, I was going to saytoday's fun fact.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Today's fun fact.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
So getting into his death and his crucifixion.
I learned that, his death andhis crucifixion.
I learned that okay, so Ibelieve this takes place.
It's Roman territory but it'sGreece.

(21:52):
So the good old Romans, theydidn't learn their lesson the
crucifixion.
So the main reason,traditionally, why they say that
Andrew is going to be crucifiedis because, of course, he's
preaching the gospel and he'supsetting the Roman government
because he will not accept allof these pagan traditions and
beliefs.
So Andrew is trying to stampout all these pagan beliefs and

(22:18):
having the Roman people acceptChristianity and it's really
starting to make the Romangovernment mad.
But a little more goes into itfrom what I've learned.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Is that the main we're going to be on him all
night.
This is 12 episodes.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
No, let's be quick, I just wanted to get the guy's
name.
Well, I can't even say his nameAgiatos Agatos, something like
that.
Egg and toast oh, that soundsgood he's like the main prefect
in the city which is calledpatra, but that's in Greece.

(22:53):
Apparently his wife is.
She really likes Andrew, she isaccepting the Christian faith.
I did read that and that's whenthey finally, this is the last
straw for him that okay, youknow his wife has defected to

(23:14):
Christianity and now she'sfollowing Andrew, and so he's
got to be put to death on an Xshaped cross, and there's some
argument about how that occurs.
Some say that following Andrew,and so he's got to be put to
death On an X-shaped cross right, and there's some argument
about how that occurs.
Some say that—.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
It just fell over.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
It just fell over.
Some say that Andrew requestedthis because he did not want to
be crucified.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
the same as Jesus, the same as.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Peter.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
He didn't want to feel as he was worthy.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
So he said, yeah, let's—so they made an X out of
it.
And then there's another storywhere eggs and toast who's going
to say it Cooked in grease.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Let's see they're in grease.
As soon as he said grease, Iwas like oh boy, was that canola
.
As soon as he said grease.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I was like, oh boy Was that canola.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
So I think he's being crucified and he's been
suffering for two days and thepeople are really starting to
cause a riot.
Things are really getting outof control.
So Eggs and Toast wants to stopthe execution.
Gosh Right, yeah, butapparently when Too?

Speaker 1 (24:22):
late.
Roger's going to have to leavethe room.
We're not going to be able tokeep going.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
It's eggs and toast this week, oh boy.
But apparently, when they tryto remove him from the X-shaped
cross, they lose control oftheir hands.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
The soldiers.
How do they lose control oftheir hands Like almost some
spiritual thing is keeping themfrom removing him from the cross
.
They start punching themselves.
Quit hitting yourself.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
They were not sunny side up.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah.
And then they say that ablazing ray of divine light
illuminated the cross and Andrewexpired.
The wife's name was Maximilla.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
And she had the body of Andrew taken down and buried
with honor and apparently hisbody moves around quite a bit
after the crucifixion.
Actually certain parts of hisbody they say, like the top of
his skull, a finger, a tooth.

(25:28):
All these different parts ofhis body are buried in different
places.
As they move around.
It'll move from like Italy toGreece.
And then they say, finallysettled all his bones in
Scotland.
Because, they say, when he wentto scotland and he touched his
staff down in the water, in theshore, he says that the water
became healing and all thesepeople came out to get healed by

(25:50):
the water, which is now whyscotland pretty much honors him
as their, as their patron saint.
Um, so that's the uh legendbehind all that.
Uh, I know, here's a picture ofold, poor Andrew on the uh.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Oh, okay, all right.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
I mean, our listeners can't see that.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
But yeah, well, can you put that in the comments?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
You can.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
We'll have to like Google one and just put it in
the comments.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
So yeah, pretty, uh pretty brutal, but uh so brutal.
So he has a really interestingstory and it's maybe the same
for all 12 of these guys.
You know, they move around andcover as much territory as they
can and more or less they'reupsetting a lot.
They're not upsetting thenormal, you know, the citizens.

(26:41):
They're upsetting thesegovernments that are trying to
control these people throughdifferent pagan beliefs and such
things?

Speaker 1 (26:47):
So I would like to say this so most non-believers
think that Christianity, or theBible generally speaking, is a
way for kings to controlcommoners.
If I make you afraid of thisheavenly deity that can strike
you dead, you will be afraid.
And if I tell you to follow myteaching my way, like just I

(27:08):
mean, like any good cult if youfollow my teaching, if you
follow my way, then you will bespared the wrath of God.
It's interesting because thenwhen the real gospel starts to
get preached and when Jesuscomes on the scene, you know you
can look at the book ofLeviticus and say, if you eat
bacon, if you do these things,that you will burn in hell, and
so they can kind of make uptheir own rules.
But then once Jesus has come,been crucified and died, all of

(27:32):
those things have been fulfilled.
And so now when these guys aregoing out and preaching the
gospel, they're saying, hey, youdon't have to live like that,
yeah, you have to live like that.
Yeah, you have to believe thatJesus Christ is your Lord and
Savior.
You know, I mean, they areevangelists in their own right.
That I'm sure would burdenkings and rulers and, you know,

(27:52):
governors and all of thosethings, Because now the control
that they felt like they hadover the people they've lost
because Jesus has paid the priceRight, and so now it's chaos
for them the price right, and sonow it's chaos for them.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
I think another one that um kind of like got the
heart of a you know militarycommander was philip.
I read about that um, and itbasically was just saying that
he, um, his ministries, weremainly in the north af area and
the Asia Minor.
Is that Asia Minor or Minor?

Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's Minor, minor, yeah, but yeah.
Yeah, I don't know where AsiaMajor is.
It's kind of like Indochina.
Where's Outdochina?

Speaker 2 (28:31):
It's not Dochina.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
So yeah, as late as 2006, the Catholic Church were
still finding relics of StAndrew.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
When they say relics, they mean pieces of his body,
pieces of his body, or perhapsthings that belong to him.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
I just—.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
Things that have been passed down from generation to
generation.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Isn't there some of his remains in the Vatican?

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Well, yeah, but I think once again they may have
moved them again, it's moved too, many times it's hard because
they're saying you can go toScotland and they have.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, well, you know that, notre Dame, notre Dame,
they have allegedly have the OGcrown of thorns that Jesus wore.
And then you can walk by andsee it and like how do we know?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
yeah, yeah how do we know?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
because I've got one hanging out there on the wall
that if you believe that thatone's the real one, maybe I can
sell you mine right, yeah, itdidn't burn no, it was, that's
it's.
That's how I learned that itwas there.
Ironically, it was in a safethat only two people had the
combination for, or somethingcrazy like that, and when the
building caught fire theycouldn't get the combination
from anybody to go in and get it.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
That was on a Netflix thing?
Was it Like they couldn't?

Speaker 1 (29:52):
figure out how to get to it, because they didn't even
really know where it was at inthe building.
There were only certain peoplewho knew where it was kept.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Well, have you seen?
Now they're doing AI researchwith the Shroud of Turin.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Listen that's a whole nother weird.
We don't want to call it aconspiracy theory, but it can be
.
Reverse image of Jesus on theShroud that nobody knows how old
it is.

Speaker 5 (30:17):
One thing on Andrew, I have in my notes.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Closer to your mic.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Oh, you're always after me.
I know is that that hecontinued to preach the gospel
as he was hanging on that cross.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
For days I'm sure this happens and this happens in
60 ad is when they said he wasput to death.
It's almost 60 years after thecrucifixion of Jesus.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
That's a long time.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
He's a long time.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
So he'd have been in his 70s then probably.
Yeah, so he must have beenquite young.
Yeah, thanks, started out.
Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
No, you were talking about, like the remains.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
You know, in Thomas I was reading somewhere that his
finger could still exist in theChristian church of Mazul.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
It's fascinating the things that we'll keep isn't it.
You know, you've got hoardersthat keep dead rats.
We just keep people's fingers.
And kids' teeth, kids' teeth.
Oh, that's so weird to me.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
Oh, there was another one thing I wanted to share.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh geez, They've got two of his eyeballs Kept in a
mason jar.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
In Scotland, or in Scotland and England, they say,
a local superstition uses thecross of St Andrew as a hex sign
on the fireplaces in northernEngland and Scotland to prevent
witches from flying down thechimney and entering the house
to do mischief by placingAndrew's cross on one of the

(31:44):
fireplace poster lentils witchesare prevented from entering
through the opening.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
Why don't you just put it over the door?

Speaker 4 (31:56):
I'll get you my pretty, because the witches fly
and they come down the chimney.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
They're not knocking at the door.
I've never seen a witch fly.
I've never seen a witch fly.
I've never seen a witch.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I have.
We won't tell Linda you'retalking about her.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Thanks a lot.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I'm not very good graces now.
Anyways.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
You're just throwing fuel on the fire, digging the
hole.
Okay, that's Andrew.
We've covered, andrew.
Who do we need to go to next?

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Bartholomew Bartholomew.
Does anyone know how he died?
Yes, what is it?

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Skinned alive.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Isn't that?

Speaker 1 (32:39):
crazy.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Like a potato peeler is how I picture it.
I just picture you.
What is it?
Skinned alive.
Isn't that crazy, Okay?

Speaker 1 (32:41):
now.
So my question, Like a potatopeeler, is how I picture it.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
I just picture you peeling your feet.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Are we really going to go here again?
Alva's going to turn off thepodcast.
Yeah, we're trying to beserious Nick Come on now Alva's
done, turned off the podcast.

Speaker 5 (32:57):
That he was filleted.
Why?

Speaker 4 (32:59):
Why was he filleted?
That's that he was filleted.
Why was he filleted?
That's such a.
It's a very gruesome death,barbaric and crazy.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
I don't know, I didn't find anything because I
searched like why but?
Yeah, as far as him.
What else do I have on him?
He was beheaded after that.
Gee, yeah, so like oh, itwasn't enough apparently not why

(33:30):
they selected that.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
I don't know, like.
I mean, I know why they did it,but like why that was the like,
why they didn't just shoot himbetween the eyes, or well,
that's because they didn't haveguns or crucify him, I don't
know, but it was because heconverted king polyamus to
christianity.
Now again why we chose to peelhis skin off, I don't know it
doesn't say it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Fired up the pagan priest yep, it does say that
he's often represented in artwith him either holding his
flayed skin or with a skinwrapped around him.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
That's disgusting, yeah, so never mind, I'm not
going to tell that story.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
We're going to talk about that.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
Oh, so well.
Here it says according let'ssee, bartholomew traveled east
to India to preach the gospeland ended up in greater armania
and ethiopia and southern arabiaokay so according to tradition,
he was flayed and beheadedbecause he had converted the

(34:32):
king to christianity.
So apparently they wanted toreally prove a point on that one
.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, it says that he was first filleted alive and
then was beheaded.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
That's what I have in my notes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yeah, I can't say this either.
A state A-S-T-Y-A-G-E-S was thename of the Armenian king that
commanded him to be filleted.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
Which I have in my notes, was the brother of the
king that was converted.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Wow, but that just seems like such an.
I guess at the end of the dayit's all about power.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Cause you figure if control.
Yeah, cause you figure if youget.
If you get to the King and gethim to change his mind to become
a Christian, you think that'dbe a good thing.
Like, like okay well if theKing, you know, the one we all
follow here is.
It depends on who you Right,but you just think that okay if
the king, who rules over us,believes that this is the way to

(35:43):
go.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
So let's bring that to a local context for just a
quick second.
So I was at the Twin CityMinisterial Association meeting
this morning and a lady came inand she hands us a flyer about
this program that they're tryingto launch in the schools.
It's a faith-based program butit is not doctrine or it's not
church polity, so they don'ttalk about like being pentecost

(36:06):
or being baptist or is it morelike spirituality?
no, it is definitely like they,they pre, they, they teach um
genesis to revelation, but theydon't like, they don't talk
specifically about speaking intongues or again what we would
consider church polity more thandoctrine.
But we know that doctrine willstill get shared to some degree

(36:27):
regardless.
They are not allowed to do iton school property, which is
fine.
And it has to be.
They call it like relief hours,so they're allowed to leave for
an hour or whatever, but theyhave to get parents signatures
and yeti.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
I know Philly was trying to do it.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yes, I don't think it's the same program that
Philly was trying to do, um, butnobody would be bused, they
would all have to walk.
So they're trying to connectwith churches that kids can walk
to, if that makes sense.
So, like um, the intermediateschool would either use the
Presbyterian Church or Bethel.
Like junior high could useBethel or Presbyterian yes, so
they're just trying to figureout how they can like work that

(37:07):
out.
Anyhow, long and short of it,the superintendent at Claymont
had denied a high school groupfrom meeting during their
regular club meeting periodbecause it was a faith-based
organization Girl from ourchurch, actually I don't want to
say managed it but, has startedit and they had to have a

(37:27):
teacher chaperone.
They had one, she quit, they gotanother one, but they weren't
allowed to meet when everybodyelse was allowed to meet.
So I sent them an email and Iwas like I'm just confused, like
why is this okay?
But this is not okay.
What I asked was not okay wasthe LGBTQ+, like they're allowed
to meet but they meet under adifferent name.
So it's like the greencarnations, because apparently
that's representate.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
That's what I said, as the white doves or something,
yeah, that's exactly what Isaid.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I said well, you know , we can come up with our own
way of doing that, Like there'stwo ways to skin a cat, stop
while I'm ahead.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
one one more time stop while I'm ahead anyhow.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Um.
So he responded and he wasbasically like the school board
gets to decide and they've saidno.
He said there's a law that'sbeing passed by the state senate
and they'll be able todetermine how much of that
instruction are like they haveto allow something, but they can
set it to one hour a year.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
One hour a year.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
They can so it's, it's designated as one hour.
But because it's designated asone hour, it doesn't say a week,
a month, a day you know whatlike.
So basically they could cut itat one hour per year and that's
all that.
They would get long and shortof it.
Um, I've learned that he got aletter, or the school board got
a letter, from somebody one ofthose like anti-Christianity

(38:51):
groups and said basically, ifthe school allows anything,
they're going to sue them andthat made him panic and
therefore he doesn't want toallow this.
He's actually, from myunderstanding, where he doesn't
want to allow this.
He's actually, from myunderstanding, very much so
against the program that'strying to be initiated while
it's legal and it's gone throughall of the things that it's
supposed to go through.
And I thought it's interestingthat the man at the top at the

(39:14):
school would be trying sodesperately to stop these kids
from getting the word Like.
That just tells me what we needto know We've got the wrong
superintendent.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
That's just the way that it is.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
And you know, if the school board is agreeing with
him, we've got the wrong schoolboard and, like that's, the
people who are voting for.
That need to be very aware ofwhat they're voting for and they
need to push back.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
Yeah, so things never change.
I guess you know it's apparentthat you know what the apostles
are doing is working, otherwiseI don't, you know they wouldn't
bother with them.
Apparently they're stirring upenough, you know, getting enough
attention, that hey, we gottawhich.
You know.
Jesus warned them about that.

(39:59):
Yes, you know.
Anyway, he knew it was coming,they all knew it was coming.
Yeah, I'm sure he never thoughthe'd be flayed to death.
But how could you?

Speaker 1 (40:07):
I don't think anybody plans for that.
No, there's a lot of things youcan think about with death, but
I think being skinned alive isnot on the bingo card is not on
the bingo card, no, so yeah,well, who else do?
We have Not on the bingo card,no, so yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Who else do we have?

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Go through the list.
Ed Go through the list.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
So Well, we hit on Peter for just a quick second,
so we just talk about himBriefly.
Yeah, andrew's brother.
Yeah, let's just talk about him.
Well, you can.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
I don't know if I have much other than he was
crucified upside down anyway.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, basically, he did not want to be crucified the
same way that Jesus was, and sohe was crucified upside down 33
years later.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
That is a long time I have questions about this,
though.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Okay, have you ever like laid on the couch with your
head hanging upside down andthe blood rushes to your head
and you start to get woozy andwhatnot?
Do start to get woozy andwhatnot?
Do you think he had like hewould have had to have
experienced that right?
Well, I'm sure he experiencedthat Okay but now what I'm
saying, though, is like that.
To me made that far worse.
Oh yeah, like you got the nailsin the hands and in the feet

(41:12):
regardless, like that'shappening.
But now you're upside down.
All the blood is rushing toyour head.
You're probably trying to vomit, but you can't.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
Like you know what I mean, Like that is a miserable
experience.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
And so for somebody to choose that, because they
didn't want to, they didn't feelworthy of dying the same way
that Christ did, is beyond me.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
I mean he could have asked to have his head cut off,
but instead upside down, please.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
Yeah, cause Jesus never said anything about hey.
Nobody else is allowed to becrucified here.

Speaker 5 (41:41):
I'm the only one that you know, so, but yeah, I have
in my notes that part of thereason that they crucified him
is that there was fires in Romeand the king blamed the
Christians starting those fires,and so they were going to take
the leader down.

Speaker 4 (42:00):
Yeah, so it was between 64 and 68 AD.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
So a little later than Andrew, that was on Vatican
Hill in Rome, okay.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Which we have to keep in mind that it actually wasn't
64.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Like Jesus technically would have died
around 32 or 33.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
He was a yes and it wasn't.
And it wasn't that he said Idon't want to be crucified like
jesus.
So they thought, okay, what canwe do with him?
We'll hang him upside down.
I guess he apparently said toldthem to hang him upside down
according to tradition.
So, and then he was buriedthere, uh, on a road leading out
of the city, on vatican hill,um so just to clarify the ad bc

(42:49):
ad thing a lot of people thinkad is after death.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
It is not um.
It's a latin term, um, whichstands for in the year of our
Lord.
So when Jesus started to live,that's AD began.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
So for clarity on that, I always thought that AD
started after he was crucified.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Nope, no, learn something new today.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Huh, you're never too old to learn something.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Too old to retain it, but not too old to learn it,
Beth.
Are those notes too small?
Yes, she's like where are themglasses at?

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Well, the notebook looks small.

Speaker 5 (43:30):
I was thinking the same thing Do you know how many
times I've wrote my notes downand forgot them here forgot them
there, little pocket-sizednotebook I can't read my own
writing as part of it so we'vecovered Andrew.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
We've talked a little bit about James, just that he
was one of the ones that wasbeheaded now I've got two
Jameses in here.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Is there two James?

Speaker 1 (43:53):
yes, there's James, james the less, and then James,
son of Zebedee.
Yep, that got quiet real quickwell, the son of Zebedee.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yep, that got quiet real quick.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Well, the son of Zebedee I have.
He was martyred when he waspreaching in Jerusalem and was
stoned to death by the Jews,then clubbed to death well how
are you stoned to death andclubbed to death?

Speaker 1 (44:18):
you only die once.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
You don't get to die multiple times.
Maybe he was stoned, but not todeath.
Death and clubbed to death.
You only die once.
You don't get to die multipletimes.
Maybe he was stoned, but not todeath.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
And then clubbed to death.
I have that he was beheaded.
Who are we?

Speaker 5 (44:27):
talking about.
I have that he was beheaded.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
James, son of Zebedee .

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Son of Zebedee.
I have that he was the firstone.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Off with his head.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
The first one to be um martyred martyred I know he
preached in syria well, that'sgood to know.

Speaker 5 (44:44):
Yeah, it's good to know way to go, james and that
he was king herod, but it hadanother name after herod, so I
don't it's not the same kingherod yeah, oh agrippa king
herod agrippa yeah, you're right, the first, the first of judia
yeah, and then that the man thatwent to the king and made the

(45:09):
accusations um was saved then byjames and so he died along him,
was beheaded right along theside man, he's just cutting
everybody's head okay, I have tomake a correction.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
What I said was the other James.
Oh, okay, you were on the wrongJames.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
Yeah, I was about ready to say King Herod is the
one that orders the death ofJames of Zebedee.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Yes.
Yeah, and the man that went tohim and accused him of James, of
whatever ended up being saved,all right.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
What about Simon?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Real quick before we do that, since we're talking
about beheadings.
I knew this, but I had to lookit up just to make sure that I
was right.
So we talk about beheadingpeople like.
This is a little bit differentwhen we're talking about
beheading in these times,probably just with a sword or a
knife or whatever.
They're just like literallycutting someone's head off.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
We should probably tell them Dawn left.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Oh yeah, dawn left.
Dawn left.
She had somewhere to be so sheleft.
She was here, but she's gone.
Bye, dawn, miss you.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
See you.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Dawn.
Did you know that theguillotine was used all the way
until 1977.
?

Speaker 3 (46:21):
I did know that.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
What?
Yes, they were still cuttingpeople's heads off in 1977.
Yes, in.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Germany.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
France was a big one.
Yes, france was a big one, yes.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, I read that somewhere recently.
How?

Speaker 1 (46:34):
bizarre that until 19 .
Elvis was alive when they werecutting people's heads off,
mm-hmm.
How weird, how weird, how weird.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Anyhow, are we talking about Simon the Zealot?
Yes, okay, yes.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Are we Now?
We are.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
We are Okay.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Okay, so he dies in Persia and I've got here that he
was sawed in half.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
I have crucified or possibly sawed in half.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Because he didn't want to sacrifice to the sun god
.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
The sun Like they were worshiping the sun, all in
Persia.
That's what they do in Persia.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
I don't know if that's what they still do.

Speaker 5 (47:11):
And he also was with Jude Thaddeus.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thaddeus.
I like Thaddeus, thaddeus.

Speaker 5 (47:16):
They preached together.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yes, Thaddeus was a cool dude.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
That is not because they do say there is a
possibility he did die of oldage.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I was going to say.
I have here that it's theirspeculation of his death.

Speaker 5 (47:31):
I have that Jude was killed to death.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wait, hold on.
How do we speculate thatsomebody was sawed in half?
Either you were or you weren't.
Was it a magic trick and theypulled him back out and he goes
ta-da.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Well, it probably depends on who's telling the
story.
Is it the loser or the winner?

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yeah, and it is hard to remember I mean, it's
something to put into contextthat the information that we
have, just like all information,is only what you can glean from
the stories that people havetold, and you get differing
opinions or stories.
You don't really know whathappened.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
so yeah, because yeah , because according it's
according to the apocryphalpassion of simon and jude that
he is cut in half, but accordingto the studies of saint basil
the great uh, the fourth centurycappadocian father, he dies
peacefully.
Okay, it's all like a lot ofthis is just a lot of.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, I prefer the gruesome ones.

Speaker 5 (48:25):
So I know I don't remember what I?

Speaker 4 (48:27):
Well, yeah, if you're going to make the movie, let's
go Sorry.

Speaker 5 (48:31):
Beth, no, it just said whatever.
I where I got my information.
It said just that he was eithercrucified or sold in half.
Yeah, I mean, they just reallyweren't sure.
I think if you're sold in half,people just would tend to not
forget that.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like, if you watch that
happen, you're not going toforget.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
Oh wait, as I'm studying this, I'm like, oh Lord
, I pray that you just steppedin and let them not feel
anything.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
Well, I'm picturing like is it a long sword?
Like the lumberjacks, have oneguy on each end yes, the saw yes
, or is it just some guy with adull?

Speaker 1 (49:04):
blade.
That's what I'm thinking.
It's like he's playing theviolin.
Yeah, I actually always picture.
You've seen Aladdin the movie,aladdin the cartoon and like all
of those, all of the palaceguards have those great big
swords with a hump in the middleof them, but they're real long
and real fat.
I just picture them using twohands and swinging that sucker

(49:26):
Like chopping a log almost.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
You know what I mean?
That was great.
So cutting your head off wouldbe like chopping a log.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, I'm sure it would be.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
If they miss, you'd dunk in the back of the head oh
ah, Oop, try again.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Thomas is one of my favorites.
I like Thomas, just generallyspeaking.
I like Thomas, I like go ahead.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
Well, I just had a thought.
So okay, so for all theseapostles after Jesus is
crucified, is there any safehaven for these guys?
Is there any place in the worldthese guys can go that if they
had wanted to, they could havejust stayed there, say, build a
church, whatever, and been safe?
Likely not.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
No, if you think about it, because they're
they're going against literallyevery well, and I Hear is it
Peter or Paul that gets arrestedand that he's on the boat and
then he goes to the island?
It's Peter.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I think it's Peter.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Gets bit by the snake on the island and shakes off
the snake and then they thinkhe's some sort of godly guy,
like literally they would arrestthem and transport them all
over the world.
There was nowhere really thatthey would ever be safe.
I wouldn't think.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Not even in Judea or anywhere.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
No because at that point remember that Jesus said
that you know, a prophet iswelcome anywhere except for in
their own hometown.
So I think if those guys wereto go even close to those people
who knew them, they would bechastised for whatever it is
that they're doing.
And I think that that's animportant passage of scripture

(51:00):
to even just remember that, thatyou know, for those of us who
have family members who are notsaved, that we wish were saved
and we try to preach the gospelto them.
I mean, the Bible tells us thatwe will never be welcome in our
own hometown.
That a lot of times when we'retelling people that we love or
that we know about who Jesus isthey're like you're crazy and
you're just a.
You know a Bible thumper and youjust whatever.
But it's not until they have anexperience with God or that

(51:23):
somebody that they know tellsthem.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Then they realize and out of town, or tells them yes,
and out of town, or tells them.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
And, as you said before, we're a very blessed
people here in the United Statesto be able to worship freely.
Still to this day, there's someplaces you cannot do that.
So yeah, it was just aninteresting thought I had.
I thought do these guys haveanywhere to go, that they felt
like safe for a while, like ifthey need you know, if they

(51:52):
right, if they just get tired.
And I wonder, did they ever getback together?
You know, were they ever theseguys ever get back together?
You know, were they ever theseguys ever get back together at
all?
Or did they just all go theirseparate ways and tried to cover
as much ground as they could,right, and never saw each other
again Because, I mean, they hadto be close?

(52:12):
Right, you know during that timeof their discipleship, before
you know, Jesus was crucified.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
So I wonder if they ever had a chance to see one
another again I know like acouple of them did preach
together like paul and peter yep

Speaker 1 (52:28):
um a few other ones there's a lot of bible stories
too, about when they would goout together and then they would
separate.
You know be differences inopinion and you can really see
that that's how the churchstarts to start in different
ways.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
And again they start to like really lean into
different, Okay, into theirinterpretation of what Jesus had
told them.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
Yeah, but they're not getting together for any like
reunions.
No, there's no, you know, 25thanniversary reunion?

Speaker 1 (52:54):
No, no, because at this point they're all just
dying off.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
Yeah, they're all getting.
Yeah.
No, because at this pointthey're all just dying off.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah, they're all getting.
If they all get together,they're in trouble because
they're just going to be a mobform, and I feel like Paul would
have told us or something.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Yeah, oh yeah, for all his past events that he
wrote yeah, that's a good pointI don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Speaking of Paul, there's things to think about.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Have we talked about Paul?
We have not talked about Thomas.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
So Thomas is one of my favorites, because this is
doubting Thomas.
This is Thomas who, in myopinion, gets a bad rap for
questioning Jesus, and I saythat because each and every one
of us do it every single day.
We just like to pretend like wedon't.
Thomas was the only one in thatroom brave enough to say Lord,
if it's really you like, yeah,let me see something.
You can tell all these peoplewho you say you are, but until I

(53:42):
see it I'm not gonna believe it.
And so he gets cast as thedoubter.
He's the, he's the odd man out,because everybody else just
buys it.
Speared to death in india ouchby four soldiers.
Spears like that's so we talkabout impaling on poles in the
old testament, like there'sthese huge poles and the kings
are just impaling people onthese poles and just like all
these like.
And then kings are justimpaling people on these poles
and just like all these like.

(54:02):
And then I picture that withlike all of these bodies just
stacked on top of the pole.
Yeah.
You just slide down the pole andyou throw another one on Like a
shish kebab yeah, it's like ahuman shish kebab and like
that's kind of what happened toThomas.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Like Thomas was like that would have been frightening
to face that knowing it'scoming hit on, and the old
diners when they'd put the orderoh yeah, with their ticket yes,
they just keep stacking.

Speaker 5 (54:26):
Yes, yes, exactly exactly I have in my notes that
he, the first spear, was throughthe side, just like jesus's.
So whether you know, history'sright or not, I don't know and
that he also continued prayinguntil his last breath.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Hmm, who was the other one that?

Speaker 4 (54:47):
did that?
When does it say when he was?

Speaker 5 (54:51):
It probably did, but I didn't probably write it down
the one that was hung on the Xcross.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
I know he was preaching East Assyria Andrew.

Speaker 5 (55:08):
That he continued to preach the two days from the
cross.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
For two days Yowch.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
They actually have a date for him.
They think it's July 3rd of 72ad 1972.
Ad latin church holds traditionthat it was december 21st so
like six months differentsomehow because we just make up

(55:37):
dates, like in my.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
it is really hard to put dates Like we celebrate
Jesus' birthday on December 25th.

Speaker 4 (55:44):
Chances are that ain't Jesus' birthday, we don't
know.
And once again, they decapitatehim after the fact.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
According to this, and I have that he went into
areas that never even heard ofChrist.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
I wonder did they do that because they were afraid,
maybe they'd come back likeJesus did?

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Because that kind of rolls into vampire mythology,
even though after they kill him,they still behead him.
They're not taking any risks?

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah, any risks.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
Even though we think it's dead, we're still going to
cut its head off.
We're going to separate it fromits body so it doesn't come
back.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
They said, they did that.
This is you have to be local inorder to the warlock's grave.
Oh yeah, that when they buriedhim they cut his head off so
that.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
But every year it inches closer to the, to the top
and I'm like you go crazy.
So I wonder if it was sometimestheir local superstitions that
made him go to these lengths tobe like we got to make sure this
dude's dead and he ain't comingback.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
It's very possible.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
That's why they got that big stone on his grave too.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
The warlocks yes allegedly.
It's on my stepmom's mail route.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Really, does she deliver mail to him?
Does he still?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
get mail.
Every now and then he does.
He still gets mail.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
They're still trying to reach him about his car's
extended warranty.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
He's still getting voter registration.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:11):
You guys are so wrong .
I know what can we say.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
What can we say?
Hey, we've creeped up on anhour pretty quickly.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
All right, well, we got to do the poll.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
We at least got to.
We've creeped up on an hourpretty quickly.
We gotta do, Paul.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
We at least gotta we can speed run the last of them,
paul, cause I feel like that'sthe only one we have.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Paul Paul, paul Paul.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Okay, so I have that.
He was the only one persecuted,or no, sorry, he was the one
who persecuted Jesus' followersbefore following him.
Yep, some a lot of us know that, but some don't.
But Yep, some a lot of us knowthat, but some don't.

(57:48):
But he was beheaded in 66 AD,possibly the same time as Peter,
which I think.
Maybe Beth said that, possibly,but I did think that this was
interesting.
Second Corinthians, 11.25, saysthis would be him speaking
Three times.
I was beaten with rods once.
I was stoned three times, I waswas shipwrecked once.
I spent a whole night and a dayadrift at sea.
So, basically, and maybe he wasspeaking, you know, not

(58:11):
literally, maybe those are moresymbolic things, or maybe he was
speaking literal, but I justthought that was very
interesting, so cool.
Yes, anyone else have anythingfrom Paul?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
I'll say this this is the kind of stuff that if you
can ask the question, it givesyou something to dig in your
Bible about and then, obviously,just like, you can Google it
and you can just read about itand it's not always going to be
like, well, that's a weird topicto Google.
But if you Googled, like, theorder of Jesus's miracles
because you get differentmiracles in different books of

(58:48):
the Bible you would really beable to sit down and put a
timeline of Jesus's lifetogether.
And really like that's realBible study.
That's the stuff that gets youengaged.
What were you going to say,Nick?

Speaker 4 (58:58):
You got your phone out ready to quote some stuff.
Well, I forget which one it was, but the Emperor Nero in Rome.
I know he ordered the death ofanother one of the disciples.
Can't remember which one it was, but he's the one that orders
Paul's death as well.
Peter, I think, Okay, so Pauland Peter maybe Okay, apparently
, paul had the rights of Romancitizenship.

(59:20):
Yes, I did know that, which iswhy he was put to bet, put to
death with a sword instead ofcrucifixion, gotcha.

Speaker 5 (59:28):
Huh, did we cover.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Matthew, did I miss out?
No, actually, we didn't.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Oh, I've already closed my Mac book.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Well, you're off the hook on this one, okay.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Deal.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Yeah, I don't think we did.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Matthew danced away into the sunset.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
In Ethiopia by a sword wound.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Although some old reports say he wasn't.
So a lot of them are going toIndia, Ethiopia.
Why do you think that area wasso important?

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Well, is it close to where?

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
I don't know, I can't see the map's too far away
india's, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:08):
You can see where egypt is saudi arabia uh- huh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
So I mean, yeah, it's a short walk it's a short walk
and walking distance but there'salso been ones that went to
africa like that's not a shortwalk, that's the other way.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Yeah, we don't know how far in Africa they went.
We don't know that they wentdown to the tip.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
I'm impressed with Andrew.
I mean for going all the way upinto Russia.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Yeah, but I don't think he walked.
He probably took an Uber.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Oh come on.

Speaker 5 (01:00:44):
Maybe a Lyft walked.
He probably took an uber.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Oh, come on maybe, maybe, a lift, I don't know.
Jet blue, jet blue.
So wait a minute, what'd?

Speaker 5 (01:00:47):
you have.
Matthew died from um a sorewound.
Yeah, I have.
They was stabbed um sheddingblood on the altar.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
He was teaching the love of christ but then this
also says possibly ethiopia, butthen some reports say africa as
well I have.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
So maybe it's both but do you do you think, maybe,
that the uh arc of the arc ofthe covenant isn't ethiopia?
That'd be a great place tostart.
Yeah apparently they say it is,yeah, but but nobody can get
into this shrine and actuallyfind out, because it's just a

(01:01:28):
small building but then there'sa big fence around it and then
there's a keeper and he's thereall the time.
He basically lives there.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, huh, time he basically lives there, really,
yeah, huh, and when, and I thinkI think he does have an
apprentice and that way, when hepasses his apprentice takes his
job, there's always someonethere and what about did we do
the other james, james the sonwell, that was the one that I
started saying.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
That it was uh, that I was getting it mixed up with
james's evidy.
But yeah, the other james,murdered when preaching in
jerusalem and was stoned todeath by the jews well, stoned
and then clubbed to death.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Question yes, stone to death, clubbed to death.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
He was, I don't know.
I can't read my own writingthat he was thrown from the
walls of the temples, but hesurvived.
And then he was clubbed todeath by a bystander.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
So, some guy just comes along and finishes him off
well, and the walls wereprobably made of stone, so they
were probably just throwing him,you know it's such bizarre that
he was had was taken before thesame council that can condemned
does anybody smell nail polishright now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
nope, yeah, I'm starting to think I'm having a
stroke.
I'm not sure.
Like seriously, does anybodysmell nail polish right now?
Uh-uh, nope.

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
Is there something you'd like to talk about?

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Yeah, I'm starting to think I'm having a stroke, I'm
not sure.
Like seriously, like I smellnail polish really, really
strong right now.
What's nail polish?

Speaker 5 (01:03:09):
got to do with a stroke.
Is that a smell?
I don't know.
Isn't it toast?
You smell toast.
You're having a stroke.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Isn't Eggs and toast.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Eggs and toast.
Is that next week's workinginto the sermon eggs and toast
You're going to?

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
have to listen to us every week, just so you can work
a little egg in Key word orphrase.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
We did that when we first started.
We did that and I would askwhat was the key word, what was
the secret word?

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Or what was the key point?

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
We can all yell like Pee Wee, irving.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Can you imagine visitors coming and?

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
they did that, they'd be like what just?

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
happened peewee's playhouse going on in here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
It's a cult.
It's a cult.
Freaking people are crazy, ohgeez.

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
So I don't know.
In my reading and looking, Icome across where it said that
the you know when, when Judasthrew the 30 pieces of silver
back at the priest, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
You're not talking into your microphone.
Nobody can hear you, okay,thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Judas threw the pieces of silver back, that the
priest kept it and bought apiece of land, and that piece of
land that they called it thefield of blood because that was
blood money.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
They don't know where it was when I researched that
Interesting I didn't know thatwe need to get her a head mic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Yeah, she's going to have to start wearing a headset.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
I'll have to call her Garth Brooks.

Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
I don't like to talk.
All right, is that it?
I think that is all.
Who's turn that it?

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
I think that is all.
Whose turn is it?
It's probably Dawn's again.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Dawn got skipped.
Dawn went and then, but you hadalready gone because you were
skipped the first time, nick,you, I started the whole.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
You fixed it, then she did it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Then Dawn did it.
It's Roger's turn.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
I knew it was one of them.
It's Roger's turn.
Here we go.
I'm going to do it, are yougoing to get it right?
Yes, I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
All right, Heavenly Father, I do thank you, Lord,
for this day.
Lord, we just ask you tocontinue to be with this podcast
, Lord.
Be with each person thatlistens to it.
Lord, we just hope that some ofour words and our funny antics
and that just lightens inpeople's hearts.
Lord, Lord, we just ask thatthey can just let them learn how

(01:05:30):
to get into the Word and tostudy the Word, Lord.
This session here, Lord, was agood one to start with.
Lord, Just ask you know if theywrote anything down while
they're listening to this.
Get into the Word and see howright we were or how wrong we

(01:05:51):
were.
Lord, and we just thank you andpraise you.
Lord, we just ask you to giveeach person you know traveling
mercies from here and back.
Lord and Lord, just let us havea blessed rest of the week,
Lord, and we just thank you andpraise you and we give you all

(01:06:11):
the glory and we just ask allthese things in Jesus name, Amen
.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Eggs and bacon.