What Does Your Heaven Look Like?

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What do you picture when you imagine heaven? Floating on clouds with angels? Reuniting with loved ones? Streets of gold and gates of pearl? In this thoughtful conversation, we explore how our vision of heaven evolves throughout our spiritual journey.

Many of us grew up with comforting images of heaven as the ultimate family reunion - a place where we'd recognize loved ones just as they were on Earth. But as we mature spiritually, these simplistic visions often give way to deeper questions. What does Scripture actually say about heaven? Will we recognize each other? Will we continue to serve God with purpose?

Diving into Revelation's vivid descriptions, we unpack heaven's physical attributes - walls adorned with precious stones, gates made of single pearls, and streets of pure gold. Yet more profound than these material wonders is the promise that God's very presence will illuminate this eternal home, eliminating the need for sun or moon.

Perhaps most challenging is the realization that heaven may not match our earthly expectations. As one host reflects, "I want to put my faith in the fact that whatever God has for me after I pass from the earth, that's okay." This spiritual maturity means trusting God's eternal plan even when it doesn't align with our personal preferences.

Whatever heaven holds, Scripture promises one certainty: "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain." In a world where we're constantly battling hardship, that promise alone sustains us through our earthly journey. What's your vision of heaven, and how has it changed as you've grown?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
thing on this subject .

Speaker 2 (00:01):
So well, it's just a fun, relaxed one yeah I, I
honestly didn't have to studyfor this one.
Yeah, I honestly didn't either.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Um, you know it's a short week for everybody.
Hopefully it's a short week foreverybody yeah, I have a couple
that I have to see, but I won'thave a long day or anything
that does make it busier, atleast in my profession, because
now everybody wakes up like, ohmy goodness, we're not working
friday, we need our stuff, yeah.
So then everybody's trying toget their material before the

(00:30):
holiday.
It's like, come on, people uh,the water is on okay, I'll let
you need to give us like asignal when we're live.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know like right, no, no, no, no, ddt, then it
wouldn't be fun yeah, yeah, butsometimes, when we get talking,
okay, we're live, oh we are,we're on.
Yeah, ddt we're on, we're live.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Oh, we are, we're on.
Is that what that little signalwas?
Ddt, we're on.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
We are live.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
No, I was running late because I saw this clip for
CBS News.
It was about the Gettysburgtest and the whole.
It was all about the fact thatit is officially considered the
hardest test ever, like ever.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
That's how they're projecting it.
So I was like, all right, itwas like a four-minute clip.
So I thought, okay, I gottawatch this before I leave.
Sure enough, I'm notinterviewed anything like that.
But sure enough, they got thebackside of me bald head.
I'm not interviewed anythinglike that, but sure enough, they
got the backside of me baldhead.
I'm like are you kidding me?
And it's like real quick.
So I would probably only knowit's me.

(01:52):
But I'm thinking really, that'sthe clip you got.
You couldn't have got a niceshot from the front.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
So much for your 15 seconds of fang.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
So I was like well, there's my bald head on cbs.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Are you planning on?
Have you scheduled another one?
Well, you don't schedule it.
They, they decide.
Oh so it could be years, but itwas.
It was interesting to watch itbecause the people that they did
interview they were like, yep,this is my third time and it was
even harder, I think, than thelast two times.
So, wow, yeah, well, and I waswatching just some of the
people's approach to the wholething and it was even harder.
I think, than the last two times.
Wow, yeah, and I was watchingjust some of the people's

(02:28):
approach to the whole thing,Like this one lady.
She had one wall of her I don'tknow if it's her living room or
just the room in her house, butthe whole wall.
She had drawn a map on it ofthe whole battle.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I was like wow, that's intense you know what
people have been making bannersfor, like birthday parties, but
they project a projector ontheir wall and then put a banner
there.
I wonder if that's what she didI think.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
No, it looked like she was actually drawing on
there I don't know and she hadall these pictures, you know, so
she could identify all thesepeople, and they said it was
just like really intense, likewow.
You know, I don't take it tothat level.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, yeah, margie would have you oh yeah, come
home.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
I got a magic marker across the wall.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
Hey honey, here's a little round top.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Here's Devil's Den.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
You better make it a dry erase.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, yeah yeah, she's like oh yeah, where's the
cemetery?
Right here.
Yeah, well that's where you'regoing to be.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
We should mention Roger's not here.
Have we done that?
Nope, not yet.
Yes, he was working out of towntoday and didn't think he would
be back in time, so that's whyhe's going to be super quiet
today.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yes, Extra quiet Extra quiet.
But anyway, yeah, it's a shortweek for all of us.
It's holiday weekend.
It's going to get hot again,yeah, but I think the rain is
finally gone, uh-huh, which isgood.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Which is good.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Felt like it was lingering around forever.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, so unfortunately I got to start my
holiday weekend by mowing thelawn.
Want to have it done beforehand, but so it goes.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
It is what it is.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, so, but looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
I even might mow this evening when I get home.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
You were mowing the other morning or the other
evening?
Was it in the morning?
I don't know when.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
It was that backyard that grass grows so fast.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
No, it was when your family left.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Sunday.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
It was Sunday evening .
I'm like I'm going to go buy myyou-go-girl yeah this humidity.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
It just makes it go crazy.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, my neighbor was weed eating at like 740 this
morning.
I'm like yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I mean, do it before it gets hot, you know.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
Morning I'm like yeah, I meanyeah, before it gets hot, you
know, yeah, absolutely yeah.
I can remember one time jarveyand I had this little tiff about
you know he didn't help me inthe house, whatever, you know
he's like well you don't help memow the grass.
I thought I'll fix you.
I got up at six in the morning,mowed that grass before I left
for work.
He came home and he's like whatdid you do?
It's all clumped together.

(05:06):
You can't move when it's wet.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Oh yeah, you're like dewy and everything it's done.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Dishes in the sink waiting for you.
They're waiting.
Have we mentioned what?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
today's topic is no, so we're just going to have a
nice relaxed.
They're waiting.
Have we mentioned what today'stopic is?
No?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
So we're just going to have a nice relaxed
conversation today.
We didn't have to study hardfor this one, even though I
couldn't resist.
But dig in a little bit, we'llmiss the one.
Find some things.
I started thinking aboutRevelation today and kind of
what it mentioned about it.
So I had to at least go intothat a little bit.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
I almost did.
But then I'm like well, I don'tknow.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
We said we're not gonna do much research, I'm not
going to so yeah, you can takeit away, yeah so officially,
we're just going to go arounddiscuss what everybody's vision
of heaven is, what their heavenuh will be if get there, when we
get there.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, when, when we get there and I kind of think,
at least for me.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
it's interesting that it's kind of changed from the
time I was little to being ayoung adult and now, being in my
40s, it does at least for me,that vision has kind of changed.
So I think that in itself iskind of interesting.
That is yeah, At least for me.
That vision has kind of changed.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
So I think that in itself is kind of interesting,
that is yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
But yeah, so we'll just kind of go around and share
If you have any kind of I don'tknow if anybody has any, maybe
unique ideas, you know, maybeisn't, you know, because there's
, you know, kind of the standard, I want to say american idea of
what, yeah, like heaven is, andeverything pearly gates and,
yeah, streets of gold and Ithink the big one for me, uh,

(06:52):
when I was a kid, you know, uhthat's what I was like both my
both my both, my grand, my uh,but paternal and maternal
grandfathers had already passedbefore I was born.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
And my grandmas didn't live very long either.
So I was at the cemetery a lotfrom a young age and of course
you know, my mom would be thereand she'd be talking about the
family and her parents.
Their stone was in one sectionand then, where my parents had
bought, their plot was justacross the way, and the way they

(07:29):
always explained it was well,come Judgment Day, when the dead
are raised, they'll rise up andthey'll be able to see each
other.
So that was kind of the pointsometimes of that's why families
wanted to be buried as closetogether as possible is so on
that judgment day you knowthey'll be able to find each
other sure they'll just be ableto rise up and look across and

(07:52):
there they'll be yeah so I kindof I kind of grew up with that
idea in my head like oh that's.
That's how it's going to be youknow that we'll all recognize
each other as we are, whetherit's maybe in the prime of our
life or however we left, I don'tknow.
But, it was just always thatidea that that's kind of like.
The first idea of heaven that Ihad was just oh, yeah heaven's

(08:15):
going to be all about beingreunited with your loved ones
and you're going to spend, youknow, and of course, your loved
ones are looking down oneverything that you do and
they're waiting on you.
And so you know, and of course,your loved ones are looking
down on everything that you doand they're waiting on you, and
so you know.
I kind of grew up with thatkind of yes.
You know that vision, with thatidea.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
And now?
Now, what's the Well?
Fast forward to the present.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
You know, let's see.
My mom's been gone 15 years.
I think my dad will be gone sixyears this October and it's
crazy because they died like itwas almost 10 years, but one day
apart from each other.
So, October 14th, October 15th.
So they almost died on the sameday.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Isn't that how Alyssa's mom?

Speaker 3 (09:02):
and-.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, Is it grandma or I can't remember, but it's her
mom.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
Her mom is another very important person in her
life.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Mm-hmm.
So I guess one thing that haschanged for me and I don't look
at this not necessarily like ina negative way, like I'm not
depressed about it, butsometimes I do wonder like, okay
, that's because you don't seethat in the Bible.

(09:37):
I don't think that's mentionedin the Bible, like you're going
to recognize your family andthat's how you're going to spend
your time.
So I guess how can I put thisLike?
I want to put my faith in thefact that whatever God has for
me after I pass from the earth,that it's okay.

(09:59):
It's okay for me if I never seemy parents again, like if I get
to heaven, and that's not whatit is Right.
Right, like I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, I've had thoughts like that too.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, yeah, so I don't.
I guess I don't hang my hat onthat.
Yeah, I want to get to heaven,so I can see my parents again.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Like.
I realize now being older andgetting more into the word that
perhaps you know that's.
That may not be how heaven isstructured, and you know God,
who knows?
You know, when I pass from thisworld is my work truly done?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Right, and I was just about to say, we're once again
looking at heaven, or our faith,you know, as almost, like,
almost in a selfish way, like,oh well, when I'm in heaven, I'm
going to be all put together?
Again and I'm going to beseeing my friends and family
that I've missed for so much.
But what if we're not done?
You know what if?
What if we have?
That's not God's plan for howheaven works.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, and you know, and you get reading into
revelation a little bit and youkind of get that feeling like,
okay, maybe that's not, that'snot the point of heaven, that's
not what we'll be doing.
You know, um, when we get there, it's not, it's not going to be
just like a constant familyreunion, like you'd imagine it
down at the park, something likethat.
Right, so yeah.

(11:23):
So I've just gotten to thatpoint where I try to just be
like, okay, you know this, youknow, I don't know.
I know a few things aboutheaven from what the Bible tells
me, but I but I don't knowexactly what it's going to be
and I can have my hopes, but I'mnot going to hang my hat on
kind of those ideas that Icarried with me when I was young
.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, that's understandable.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
So it's just another way of you know you're accepting
God's will for what your life'sgoing to be not in this world,
but the next world as well.
This is kind of I don't know ifI should share this, but I've
told several people.
I said, you know, I said I'd bebecause some people were like
there ain't no way I'd do thatI'd be perfectly okay if God was

(12:12):
like okay, you're going to goto battle.
You're going to be part of thatbattle and the revelation.
If God would have that kind ofmission for me, to have to
experience that part of it, I'dbe like, okay, that's what I'm
going to do then it might not betime for me to rest.
When you get there, when I getexperience that part of it, I'd
be like, okay, that's what.
I'm going to do, then you knowit may, it might not be time for
me to rest when you get there.
When I get there, there might bemore to do because you know it

(12:32):
talks about the war in heaven.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
It talks about all those things.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
I think, well, if that's what I have to do, that's
what it comes to, Okay, then Iwant to be prepared for that too
.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like I said, said I never want to go into heaven.
Thinking self, being selfish,like just thinking about all the
things I want right, you knowso.
So that's one maybe kind ofunique thing for me is that I
just I try not to just focus onwhat I want out of heaven my mom

(13:00):
used to have a vision of comingback on a horse in the battle,
and she used to dream that allthe time.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
That would like give you chills, I think, when she
would tell you yes, oh my yes.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Was she very descriptive.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Oh, the color of the horse, the whole nine yards yes.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
That's cool yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Now, nick, I have to ask um like did you ever want to
go into the service or themilitary?

Speaker 3 (13:32):
I think at the time when I was young.
No, but I wish I would havedone it.
Now, looking back, I kind ofthink I probably would have fit
in.
Yeah, I probably would havebeen good at it, and I kind of
wish I would have done it.
I wasn't sure, I think I couldprobably be retired right now if
I would have you know if I'dhave done that.
Yeah, the one number one um butyeah because I've always had an

(13:53):
interest.
You know, and just you know,the whole military thing, the
civil war yeah, that kind ofthing you know and have an
interest in one thing andactually doing is quite another
for sure, don't get me wrongyeah.
But yeah, I sometimes havethought, maybe I should have.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Oh I I've always thought that I mean off, off
topic, but I mean it's alwaysbeen in the back of my brain
since like 14 or something,because I'm like, well, my
grandpa served, dad served, andI'm like, well, I'm the tomboy
of the family, but we're allgirls, so I guess, like I could
serve, and my dad's like, well,if you do, don't go into the
army.
But I mean, yeah, I still lookat it that way, you know.

(14:31):
I'm like, well, yeah, I don'tknow, I guess it's technically
not too late for me, but that'dbe kind of hard.
But I just wasn't sure becauseof your love for history and the
way that you're you know,looking you know, because I
talked to some people.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
I'm'm like is it silly that, or is it, even If
you've never been in the service?
If you've never been in combat.
Is it silly that you study warsand people that have and I want
to say past judgment, but yougot your own ideas about why
they won or lost and you know wetalk about all those things
when you get in groups with youknow, especially with the battle

(15:06):
of gettysburg.
You know why.
You know why lee lost, and youget into all these topics of
what he should have done, right,you know, and you think, like
you know, like you're anarmchair general now after the
fact, and he should have donethis, should he done that?
And people get into these long,hard debates about it and it's
like, is that kind of silly?
Because you know, I've neverbeen in the service myself, I've

(15:27):
never experienced it, and is itonly people that have actually
done that worthy of talkingabout it?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I don't know because I can.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
There's still many things I can learn from it that
I use every day in my life andwhat I do.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
So it does have its uses, yeah, but, but yeah, I, I
might have missed a boat on thatone.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
I just wasn't sure.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Maybe not, maybe, you know.
Like I said, no-transcript.
Like you know, he works throughpeople and he needs certain
people to do certain things andhe can definitely look into

(16:15):
somebody's makeup and theircharacter and yeah be like well,
yeah, he probably be a goodgood, good fit for that yeah,
never know the calm before thestorm, yeah but, uh, but I guess
, if, if, if I got to choosewhat you know, if I got to
heaven, the lord's like okay,whatever, whatever you want to

(16:36):
do, whatever you choose, that'swhat you'll have.
I think we were talking beforewe left last week.
Yeah, I'd probably go for thatquiet small log cabin somewhere
up in the mountains.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yep, yep, me too, me too.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
And as long as I had just shelves and shelves of
books that I could read all daylong.
Yep, nice calm river, yessomething, or some shade trees,
and you know I could do that.
I I guess, yeah, I could dothat every day yeah, you know I
could live that life every dayand not not get bored no so it'd

(17:12):
be as simple as that for me.
I wouldn't, you know?
and yeah, I'd like to besurrounded by the people I love
and things like that, but no, Iwouldn't.
I don't think I'd need too much, especially if we didn't have
the weight of the world on ourshoulders.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
And you know the, the push and just the push of the
world and like, yeah, like Icould be in that cabin all day.
And like, oh, am I going tofish today, or am I going to
hunt?
Am I?
Going to kayak, or am I goingto float the river?
You know what I mean, like thatdidn't have to worry about
anything else.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
I'd be like once in a while I can just thunderstorm
all day.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
That'd make me happy.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Me too, I love a thunderstorm.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
I love an evening thunderstorm sitting on the
porch and.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
I love a thunderstorm in the middle of the day, not
like just raining all day yeah,I've always been a sky watcher,
so I love to watch the cloudsrolling in speaking of?

Speaker 3 (18:01):
was it yesterday or day before they were rolling in
like crazy oh, yeah, they'redoing pretty quick, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, I get you.
Yeah, just a nice afternoonstorm that rolls through real
quick, and yeah, absolutely.
But yeah, I'd be pretty simple.
I don't need any crowns orjewels or a mansion.
I don't want a big mansion Ican get lost in, or have to

(18:23):
clean, have to clean, yeah,exactly.
Which way do I?

Speaker 4 (18:25):
turn Right or left?
How do I get to my bedroom?
Yeah, we will never sleep.
Probably We'll never need tosleep.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
But of course you know, if I choose the small
cabin and all that and then,yeah, I am with my loved ones.
So Margie's there, guess what?
The small cabin's going to befull of cats.
That might not be a good idea.
I might need a little biggerplace.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Maybe they got to have their own little sanctuary.
They'll have their own littlecabin right.
They'll have their own littlesanctuary out there with
automatic feeders.
No, right now I'm picturinglike an old, like 1800s, cabin
for them.
And then a big, nice cabin foryou guys like more updated.
That could be their little hutyeah.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, yeah, and kind of live in that.
I know it's.
You know, I'm sure it was a lotharder than what I imagined it
to be, and I know it was.
But maybe just kind of live inthat 19th century lifestyle
before things got toocomplicated.
You know, I don't even think Idon't need a TV.
I don't even think I need TVand all the technology and all
that.
I think I could let all that go.

(19:31):
Yeah, I'd be fine with that.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's like if I lived at a house that didn't have
service.
Like my aunt lives somewhereand she does not have service
and she has to buy a hot spotand pay for it monthly.
I'm like I simply wouldn't.
Like you can contact me on topof the hill when I reached the
top of the hill to go to Philly.
Other than that, I don't knowwhat to tell you.
You didn't know where to findme, Yep Send the postman.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yep, I don't know Dawn better be next door to me.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
You ain't ever getting rid of her Dawn.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Right.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
No never, well, never yes.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Listen, she's the one that moved two doors down for
me.
Yeah, she was there first.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah, she was there first.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
You didn't know what you were getting yourself into.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
She figured that out back in first grade.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
You know, as a kid I think I envisioned it kind of
cartoonish, like what you saw inthe cartoons, you know, the
little charms floating around onthe cloud, the staircase to
heaven.
You know so.
But yeah, and now, like whenI'm at the ocean and the sun is
rising or the sun is setting,when you get that reflection of
the sun on the water, I justalways think up there's my

(20:42):
staircase to heaven.
You know, every time I see that, yeah, is a thought that I have
.
And as a kid I thought runningthrough the flowers, yeah, just
running through a field offlowers or sitting on clouds,
clouds yes, yeah, yeah, yeahyeah yeah

Speaker 1 (20:58):
yeah, so I think as a child that's what I envisioned.
I don't know where you knowthat running to the flowers and
but all our lost pets, yeah yeah, yeah, yes charlie, I'll get to
see this, yeah I?

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, I forgot about that.
Yeah, well, you know that's acover who hasn't told their
child yeah right.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
The pet passed over the rainbow bridge Right right.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, we'll see him again yes, and that was one of
the more important things toyourself when you were a kid.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Nothing can break your heart like a no, yeah pad.
So yep, yeah, absolutely.
I feel like when I was a kid itwas more like almost
personalized, like, oh well, I,there's gonna be animals
everywhere, because, like I wasa huge animal lover I mean I
still am, maybe not as much asmargie, no, no, um, but like
that and I don't know, I Ialways pictured like I, I guess,

(21:59):
like more I guess, whenever I'mlooking at the clouds, like
when I was little, I would kindof picture heaven to be right
above the clouds you know what Imean.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yes, same um yes, but yeah or look like looking at
the night sky yeah stars and themoon.
It's like, yes, it's, it's rightthere speaking of the moon, the
guy like the, the man in themoon, that's always what would
yeah trigger that yeah that waskind of like intertwined with
the heaven on, on my end, Ithink, but you know and and

(22:27):
speaking of our loved ones,knowing whether or not we're
going to know our loved ones orwhatever.
You know years of working inthe medical field and seeing
people pass.
Yeah, they are talking to theirloved ones.
They are, oh, yeah, yes, goodpoint.
So I truly believe that ourloved ones are welcoming us into

(22:48):
heaven that they are there.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, well, my mom was passing away.
She thought I was her dad.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Like always looking in a corner, yes, always looking
up, and yes, my, my grandpawould do that and cooper and him
were looking at the same.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
It was chilling you know and they're well, and as a
child you know who knows whatcooper may have exactly, exactly
listen.
My daughter tells me a story.
Now, I was pregnant for mydaughter when my dad's mom, my
grandmother Reed, was passingaway and I was sitting on her
bed in the nursing home.
And my daughter tells me astory where she was sitting on

(23:25):
the bed with the dog, with AuntNettie.
I said we don't have an AuntNettie.
She said I was on her bed withthe dog and tells me the outfit
she was wearing and I said youdon't have an Aunt Nettie.
I said my grandmother's namewas Nettie, but she was like two

(23:45):
years old when she startedtelling me this story.
I've heard of stories like that, but I was pregnant for her,
sitting on the bed with the dog,with my grandmother Nettie.
It's crazy.
I can't remember what we did inhigh school and my daughter's
telling me things that she didwhen she was in the womb.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, and it's crazy that you can recall what she was
talking about, like, oh yeah, Iwas there too.
Yeah, yeah, I'm like no, youLike no, you weren't even born
yet, so yeah, quite odd.
Yeah, but I feel like that doestell us something like yeah,
whether or not we're going to bewith them forever, we're
probably going to have some sortof interaction with them, right

(24:29):
, hopefully at some point whenwe're up.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yes, or in the process, you know nowhere.
But I thought I read somewherethat we will recognize or know,
but we won't, like you said.
We won't be right like in ourown little yeah, family groups.
We won't be, but we will knoweach other.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, if we knew each other here, yeah maybe like in
the same neighborhood, rightright, not living together.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Thank, god right, there will be no husbands and
wives or whatever, yeah, right,yeah, yeah yeah, yeah I often
wonder like are we going to havean appetite, right, do we get
hungry?
Do we get hungry?
Or if we enjoy food, yeah rightif we enjoy food.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Are we going to stay skinny fruits and nuts fruits
and nuts berries, not game rightyeah, yeah, like is there going
to be, you know trees or can weget the fruit off of the tree
and we've always thought whatthat we're going to be like the
age of Christ when he likethirties 33 or whatever.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, yeah so yeah, like Nick, like you said, like
your prime, almost like howpeople would recognize you at
that point, maybe yeah almostlike how people would recognize
you at that point.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I.
I was talking to a pastor onetime and not gonna mention his
name, but well, I can't rememberthe whole conversation, but
more or less he was trying toexplain to me that we would, we
wouldn't be visually, you and I,we, we would be just like this
form, and so we would recognizepeople, but not in our form, we
would recognize, like theirpersonality or their spirit.

(26:04):
And I was like tried to envisionthat.
And I was like, well, right, sothat was always been a hard one
.
I was like well, what do youmean?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Just like a I've heard like the blue man.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Right the blue man group.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yes, Just like you know, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Like what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
But yeah, yeah, or I'm picturing right now, like
that Facebook icon, like thatblue one Do you know what I'm
talking about?
The bluish gray Like asilhouette of a head, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, that's what I'm picturing a head and oh yeah,
yeah, that's what I'm picturingjust like a blank profile.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah right, yeah, I don't know that doesn't make
sense.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Personalities, maybe with all.
I mean when you, when you thinkabout all the in revelation,
they do describe a lot of thebeautiful things you will see
yes I can't imagine that wewould be just a blob meaning
right, right or all the same,yeah, yeah yeah, I can't imagine
.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
That, but no, I think my vision of heaven now is it
goes by, everybody says thebright light, but I think it's
just going to be so bright andwarm and peaceful and I think
we're just going to be soconsumed with just worshiping
him.
Oh absolutely Worship songs allthe time.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Yeah, that's what Revelation says yes and no hurt
Hopefully he does something withthis voice of mine, because I
always feel bad for the peoplestanding in front of me during
Sunday.
Because I'm bellowing buddy,I'm singing out.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I was thinking that on Sunday I'm holding Cooper.
I'm like, lord, I'm sorrycooper, like I am a terrible
singer and he's up front I mean,his ear is right by my mouth
and I'm like, oh, buddy, I'm sotone deaf.
No, I yeah like, right now Ipicture it as like no more hurt,
no more sorrow, oh, absolutely,and the bible says that, and

(27:53):
and clearly with what comes withthat is just pleasant people
that are smiling all the timeand living yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
Negativity yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Living to the fullest , I guess.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
No drama yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
Right yeah.
No anxiety, no depression, no.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah, not constantly solving problems.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
No mourning, no crying yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it even says you knowthat there will be.
There will be no need for nightor day.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Right, right, right, because that light.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
God's light will be just, you know, 24, seven,
that's all we need.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Well, and then that that makes me think, when it
says that, like there will be noneed for night or day, okay, so
then maybe we won't be working,you know, like maybe there
won't be days or months andhours just like a time.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
There is no time.
We're not going to be lookingat time right, we gotta be here
and there to you know, yeah,there's no structure yeah, yeah,
yeah, we'll just

Speaker 4 (28:47):
pray that I'll never be tired again.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah seriously, yeah, what, uh, what kind what?
What do you have open?

Speaker 3 (29:00):
This is Revelation 7-9.
And I think this is where itdoes describe well.
It describes the greatmultitudes in the white robes.
So these are all the peoplethat had been faithful to God
throughout the generations, allthe true believers, and it's

(29:23):
speaking about what, whatthey'll be doing in heaven.
I'll read through it a littlebit.
After this, I looked and therebefore me was a great multitude
that no one could count, fromevery nation, every tribe, and
there before me was a greatmultitude that no one could
count, from every nation, everytribe, people and language
standing before the throne andin front of the Lamb.

(29:44):
So there's a good clue.
So you've got people from everynation, tribe, language.
So if they're recognizing it assuch, well then maybe you know,
we will see.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
You know, you will see that's true differences and
english people, chinese peopleright.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Different skin tones, different colors.
Yes, you will see.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
every type of you know nationality, every tribe,
every kind type of person hasever existed.
That was true to the lord willbe reflected.
So that's a good.
They were wearing white robesand were holding palm branches
in their hands and they criedout in a loud voice salvation

(30:26):
belongs to our God, who sits onthe throne, and to the lamb.
All the angels were standingaround the throne and around the
elders and the four livingcreatures.
They fell down on their facesbefore the throne and worshiped
God, saying Amen, praise andglory and wisdom and thanks and
honor and power and strength beto our God forever and ever.
Amen.

(30:48):
Then one of the elders asked methese in white robes, who are
they and where did they comefrom?
I answered you know.
And he said these are they whohave come out of the great
tribulation.
They have washed their robesand made them white in the blood
of the lamb.
Therefore, they are before thethrone of God and serve him
night, day and night in histemple, and he who sits on the

(31:11):
throne will spread his tent overthem.
Never again will they hunger,never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.
For the lamb at the center ofthe throne will be their
shepherd.
He will lead them to springs ofliving water and God will wipe
away every tear from their eyes.
So there's a little indicationof what we'll be doing in heaven

(31:35):
on a daily basis there, that itwill be a constant.
You know we'll be doing inheaven on a daily basis there
that it will be a constant.
You know we'll be in constantworship.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Worship.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
But yeah, so there was that little clue there at
the beginning that maybe doestell us that we will recognize
people as individuals.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
This is kind of stating that in heaven, you know
, we're not going to be the same.
Almost as if, like a, a kernelor a seed of some sort becomes a
full-grown wheat plant.
So it's similar, almost like acaterpillar becoming a butterfly
you know like transformation.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Okay, I don't know, then I've also got, if you go on
to revelation 21 and this is,let me see 21 16 then I saw a
new heaven and a new earth, forthe first heaven and the first

(32:39):
earth had passed away.
So that gives us a clue thatnot only the earth here that we
know will be destroyed, but alsothe first heaven will be wiped
away yeah um, and there was nolonger any sea okay, I've got
that right here.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
It says the sea was no more does not mean there was
no bodies of water in the newearth, but refers to the source
of earthly rebellion, chaos anddanger the sea from which the
beast emerged.
Which is from Daniel 7.3.
This symbolic or literal sourceof rebellion will no longer
threaten creation's perfection.
So, almost symbolic, once againliteral source of rebellion

(33:21):
will no longer threatencreation's perfection, so almost
, is, you know, such a reliefyeah, yeah like, because you
know like saying you're notgoing to have any more big
beasts to battle.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
You know, yeah yeah, and being a christian, you know
how hard it can be.
You know the enemy attacks youeven harder.
And just having to fight thatevery day, to fight those
battles, that in itself can beexhausting yeah.
So, just knowing that, thatthat's gone, knowing that the
job is done.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
You know that the fight is over.
There's victory.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Clear off your hands, yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
And you don't ever have to worry about going back
into that ever again.
Yeah, you're off your hands andyeah, and you don't ever have to
worry about going back intothat ever.
Yeah, yeah, that is.
I don't think a lot of peoplethink of it that way, right,
yeah.
So then it says I saw the holycity, the new jerusalem, coming
down out of heaven from god,prepared as a bride beautifully

(34:15):
dressed for her husband, and Iheard a loud voice from the
throne saying now the dwellingof God is with men and he will
live with them.
They will be his people and Godhimself will be with them and
be their God.
He will wipe every tear fromtheir eyes.
There will be no more death ormourning, or crying or pain, for

(34:36):
the old order of things haspassed away.
So it's saying right there thatyou know, on this earth, as
Christians, you know we pray toGod, we look up to God.
He's there, but we can't seehim.
So it's as personal as we canget if we have relationship with
him in prayer, but now he'llactually personally be there.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
It says this also it's this must be going reading.
It doesn't even say it's comingfrom revelation, but it clearly
is, because it was talkingabout the dwelling and now it
was.
You know, by wiping away everytear and eliminating death,
mourning and pain, God willreverse the curse that entered
the world through human sin.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
So Yep, so he obliterates all that.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
And once again, beth, this is the New Testament Going
back to the Old Testament,because it was Isaiah 25, 8.
Isaiah 65, 19 through 20 aswell, and the paragraph before
Leviticus and Ezekiel.
And I mean I'm going to have tofind that picture and send it

(35:45):
to you Because I want to get onemyself, like put it somewhere,
just looks like a bunch ofarches and rainbows, like
intertwining.
That would be really neat.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
I think I've seen it on Amazon.
I'm going to have to find it.
John 14 to four says and myfather's house are many rooms.
If it were not, so what?
I have told you that I go to gothere to prepare a place for

(36:16):
you.
And if I go and prepare a placefor you, I will come again and
will take you to myself thatwhere I am, you may be also, and
you know the way to where I amgoing.
So that's like his promise tous, you know.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
So is that saying, okay, let's.
So let's just say I've got thelittle cabin by the river and
I've got what he has prepared.
So it's almost like, hey, he'sproviding a place for you.

(37:01):
Okay, maybe it will be whateverit is you've earned, but it'll
also be so it won't be liketraveling you know we're not
gonna be like, well, we're gonnago, like you, go to see grandma
christmas time you don't haveto put on your boots to go
travel, like if you're thinkingabout going to see God or if
he's coming to you, it's, it'sinstantaneous.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Right, right, you know.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah, there's not any great travel, weary
travel to be done.
That you know.
He'll always be right there.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, Almost like he's right, right there with us
now you know.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah, I don't know, Maybe I'm going on a limb on
that.
No, no, I don't think so.
So, and it of course, it doesexplain this new heaven and how
it's going to look.
It says it's shown with theglory of God and its brilliance
was like that of a very preciousjewel, like a Jasper, clear as
crystal.
It had a great high wall with12 gates, with 12 angels at the

(38:03):
gates.
On the gates were written thenames of the 12 tribes of Israel
.
There were three gates on theeast, three on the north, three
on the south and three on thewest.
The wall of the city had 12foundations and on them were the
names of the 12 apostles, ofthe lambs.
The wall was made of jasper andthe city of pure gold, as pure

(38:27):
as glass.
The foundation of the citywalls were decorated with every
kind of precious stone.
So I think, reading that maybethat's where people get their
envision of their mansion on thehill you know that yeah that
you know heaven is going to be.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Everybody who's in heaven is just going to be in
this majesty of yeah you know ofwhat, of what they're
describing here well, and thissays right here, like the
translations too, you know, like, like this is saying room, it
doesn't necessarily mean a smallspace, it just was the, the
closest word that they couldthink.
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
That would translate so yeah, and in there it says
there are many rooms yes, yes somany, many categories maybe
rather than

Speaker 2 (39:15):
rooms, or yeah, just something to think about.
I think that's.
I think that's important toremember when we're reading the
bible in general that, yeah, youknow there's.
There's certain, was it?
Michael was telling us sunday?
I think there's certain wordsin the or maybe was he telling
us Sunday morning there'scertain words in the Amish

(39:37):
language that there's just noword for it in the English
language, and so it's.
You know, imagine that with howmany different languages you
know what I'm saying, or howmany different translations.
So Okay.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah it says every part of the foundation, all 12
parts of the foundation is madeup of different type of stone or
gem.
So there's 12 walls decoratedwith every kind of precious
stone.
Each one is a different stone.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Would that be the 12 tribes?

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Maybe that's what it represents.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
I don't know if it's that yeah doesn't it say that?

Speaker 4 (40:19):
I mean, you read that .

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Because then it says the 12 gates were 12 pearls,
each gate made of a single pearl.
The great street of the citywas a pure gold, like
transparent glass.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Imagine that one pearl.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Yeah, like how is that possible that?

Speaker 4 (40:35):
gate is one pearl.
Yeah, like how is that possible?

Speaker 3 (40:41):
That gate is one pearl yeah, yeah, oh, and then
it says I did not see a templein the city, because the Lord,
god Almighty and the Lamb areits temple.
So we will no longer be goingto church, I assume, because God
is Right, he will beomnipresent enough.

(41:03):
Yes, that just his presencealone is like we can be under
that.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Which, yeah, that's a vision in itself.
Yeah, that's a vision in itself.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, because I feel like even some people look at
heaven and picture churcheseverywhere.
Or you know what I'm saying,like churches on every corner of
the street, or I don't know.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I think that's where my vision comes from.
The light that's him, that'sthe light.

Speaker 4 (41:37):
Well, yeah, because right here.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
The city had no need for sun or the moon to shine,
for it was the glory of God andthe Lamb Yep.
So it says, the glory and honorof the nations will be brought
into it.
Nothing impure will ever enterit, nor will anyone who does
what is shameful or deceitful,but only those whose names are

(42:00):
written in the Lamb's book oflife.
So that's probably a keystatement right there.
It doesn't matter how many goodworks you've done or well,
let's face it even how many badthings you've done.
If you've repented and youbelieve in Jesus Christ as your
Lord and Savior, then you'regoing to be written in that book
of life, but for those who arenot, there's nothing further.

(42:24):
He's not looking at anythingelse.
I think I read that when I wasgoing through this today, that
you know, it's just one of thosemain things.
It's like yeah, there's so manyyou would think there are so
many things that could keep youout of heaven, and people think
about that every day.
Every day, you can think am Ireally going to heaven, Am I

(42:46):
really going to make it, causeI've done this, I've done that.
You can't forgive yourself orwhatever it is.
You know all the things you'vedone in your past and you'll
hang.
You'll get hung up on thosethings, like is it really even
possible that I could you know?
Um?

Speaker 1 (43:04):
be worthy enough yeah , yeah yep, but we hang on to.
God has already forgiven usyeah, right yeah, but it all
hinges on that.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
You know where does your heart lie.
Does it lie with Jesus Christ,or are you hoping, if well, if I
cover it up with enough gooddeeds but never really repent.
If I, you know, just try to, youknow, half-heartedly, make up
for things at the very end, justto try to save myself, then

(43:35):
that's not going to be enough.
It's that have you trulyaccepted Jesus Christ as your
Lord and Savior?
That's what's going to get youin the book of life, Nothing
else.
And that can all your gooddeeds can't get you written in
that book of life.
You can stack them up eightmiles high and it won't get you.
But you could stack all of yourfaults up eight miles high.

(43:58):
But if you've truly, in yourheart, given your life to Jesus
Christ and that's all you need,so that in itself, you would
think, for a lot of people itwould be a very refreshing
thought.
Oh, for sure, yeah, is that youknow if I'm truly going to give
my life to the Lord, if I'mtruly going to admit that he is.
But there is a lot of peoplethat well, like I said, you want

(44:26):
the best of both worlds, andyou know they say, well, I'll
get to it someday, you know, andmaybe you've done it in the
past gave it up, you haven'tcome back to the Lord, and
that's always a difficult onefor me too is okay.
So you have somebody who, let'sjust say, you've had somebody

(44:48):
that gave their life to the Lordat one point, and let's just
say, for 20 years they were onthe up and up, and you know, and
then all of a sudden theydecide to walk away from it, for
whatever reason yeah, Even ifthey thought it was a good
reason at the time, if they feltthey had been hurt by the
church or just, you know, gottento the point where, see, this
is why.
Right, Because you know, becauseyou know all the Christians I

(45:10):
know are just terrible peopleand you know they.
You know they've always treatedme unkind and you know you can
have all these reasons why andthen, but that person never
comes back to the Lord, nevercomes back to the church.
Does the relationship you hadwith him for 20 years make up
for that?
Are you still gonna be writtenin the book of life?

(45:32):
Or, if you've chosen, if you'vetaken the exit?

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Right, you've walked away.
I feel like you took the exitand you chose that and that's
free will once again.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Especially.
I think if you've spoken intoexistence, maybe it's one thing
in your heart you're like you'refeeling hurt, so in your mind
you're just you.
You maybe you never actuallysaid I'm giving it up and I no
longer believe in this becauseof x and y, but just because you
were so hurt that you kind oflike stop trying, yeah, almost

(46:07):
instinctively.
Quit trying, you know, and younever, you never go back you
know you never pick up where youleft off.
You know just those.
You know 20 years good enoughto get you in the book of life,
or is it well?
You know, it's a tough one yeah, it is because I've seen people

(46:29):
do that yeah and then I and Iand the other one is.
I've just seen so many timeswhere I'm sorry, but you know
the person has never had arelationship with jesus christ
and at the very end they'rehaving somebody pray over them
and and you, I mean I'm sayingyou know, you know, trying to
get them to accept the lord atthe time of their death is that

(46:51):
right, well, we do know that'senough, because the thief on the
cross okay

Speaker 4 (46:55):
so we do know that that is enough, even though they
didn't live for christ at all.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
But a lot of their walk here on earth, and it's it
stinks, because people look atit as oh well, if I'm just gonna
live my, I'm just gonna live mylife, and then, yes, you know
I'll do it right at the very end.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
But I don't think the thief did it out of fear no no,
no, because he believed, hebelieved, yeah, he believes yeah
yes, yeah, no, that person,somebody praying over them on
their deathbed.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
If they can't accept him then?
Yeah, right, or if you're doingit out of fear, like oh right,
yes, I didn't expect to get thisillness.
Yeah, I didn't expect to bewhere I am right.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
You panic like right, okay, I gotta, if there
actually is a I gotta say thisprayer and the difference is is
whether their head saved orheart saved right if you
actually mean it or not.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Yeah so I guess the point is I don't to, I'm not
judging people like that orjudging that experience.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a goodthing, but I just want to make
the point that don't wait thatlong.
Yeah, right, yeah, you knowthere's no, there's no sensible
reason for ever waiting thatlong to find out.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Tomorrow is never promised.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
No, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
No.
So if you even have an inklingthat you want a relationship
with Jesus, you shouldn't putthat's the one thing you should
not put at the bottom of yourbucket list.
Yeah, don't procrastinate onthat, don't keep pushing that
one off, bring it to the top ofthe list, because when you were
talking about.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
You know the person that was with christ and then
all of a sudden turned the otherway.
It made me think of this versejohn 10 28.
And I give them internal life,and they shall never perish.
Neither shall anyone snatchthem out of my hand.
My thought on that was nobodycan snatch you out of his hands,

(48:49):
but you can jump Exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Say that again.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Read the verse.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
It said, and I give them eternal life.
They shall never perish.
Neither shall anyone snatchthem out of my hand.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yeah, they can choose to walk the other way because
he's a gentleman and he's notgoing to force himself on you.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
So you know nobody has that power to take Christ
from you, but you can takeyourself from Christ.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
You're the only one that can do that.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Almost like that kid that fell off of the cruise ship
.
Yes, you know, dad jumped inright away.
Like would he do that for youif you did?
I'm saying if this kid meant todo it on purpose or was like
screw this, I want to go live inthe ocean, you know what I mean
, right, but like would god be,like hey, I bet I'm gonna save
you, but I don't know, becausewe have free will at the end of

(49:41):
the day, you know yeah, and I do.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
I guess I'm the type of person that I do think god
kind of covers children oh, yeah, yeah, and and their in their
immaturity and their yeah, yes,and I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
I was just meaning that as a an example like if
he's like, I'm gonna go livewith spongebob squarepants yeah

Speaker 3 (50:00):
so I think you know if a kid, in their immaturity
and stupidity, would dosomething like that, thinking
that and you know that childnever had an opportunity to give
himself to the Lord.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
I think God covers them, especially if God covers
children, and I mean we'vetalked before about the age of
accountability.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
What do we think?
That is, whether it be 13, 12,14, whatever.
Yeah, until that age.
Yes, yes, I agree.
Yeah, age yes.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Yes, I agree, yeah, and the other hard question I
have is you know, we're allsaved, we all believe that we're
saved.
I think we can say that foreverybody at this table, but we
all have things.
We struggle with Sure, and weknow that.
Yes, no matter what it is.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
My venting.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
You know, and you think, okay, well, that's a
small thing, but maybe to youit's a big thing.
Right, you know it's one thingthat's holding you back from
maybe going to that next level.
But God knows what our sins are, he knows what our struggles
are and even though we'reChristians, we've given
ourselves to the Lord, we stillstruggle with sin every day.
So if there's certain you knowcause I look at you know people

(51:07):
that, okay, do we look atsmoking as a sin?
Right, right Now?
It hurts your body, it injuresyour body.
You know that it does Right,and I'm sure that you know the
Lord would tell you the samething.
This is the body that I'vecreated for you and you're
contaminating it right, yeah,you know, yeah, this is our
temple, that's our temple um,but okay, but you never give up

(51:31):
smoking because, for whateverreason, you you just, you just

Speaker 1 (51:34):
can't you just can't give it up or you just, you just
, never that addiction is too.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Yeah, that addiction you know uh then what does?

Speaker 3 (51:44):
that you know.
Does that cancel you out?

Speaker 2 (51:46):
because you say you've given your life to the
lord and you've repented of yoursins, but you got this one
thing that you never quiteconquered yeah, I, I had a
someone who, uh, grew up with melike we were neighbors at first
and then our parents becamebest friends and then, I mean,

(52:09):
he was like five or six yearsolder than me and and then he
had a sister, but she wasyounger, but we would, you know,
I would be close with her butthen always go and see football
games and but he was a partier,you know, and he and he ended up
, I don't know, the last maybetwo years of his life.
He started changing his lifearound and he kind of became

(52:31):
more of a dad role, like astepdad, but you know, he was
going to church and everythingand was trying, and I know, and
it wasn't like he was analcoholic.
I just think he's, you know, hehad probably 14 years of
partying under his belt, youknow what I'm saying.
Like he started young, I thinkhe's, you know, he had probably
14 years of partying under hisbelt, you know what I'm saying.
Like he started young, I thinkhe was nine or ten, you know
what, because mom was never homeand but he, you know,

(52:53):
motorcycle accident, boom andhe's gone, you know, and like so
many people say, there's not alike I am not worried about,
like I think he is up there withhim right, and because he was,
you know he was trying and evenI will I'll still see
screenshots of people havingconversations with him about a
month before he ended up passingand was had so much ambition of

(53:16):
these younger kids that hewanted to speak life into and
you know like talk to.
You know, talk to them aboutJesus and God and it's like,
yeah, I feel like at that pointlike man, you know he was trying
, like he still had and I don'tneed I don't know, maybe the
last two years he wasn't, but Iknow that some people had that
thought and no matter what ouropinion is of somebody, only God

(53:38):
knows, only Christ knows theheart of that person.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
Yes, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Well, you know, because you get some of these
yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
He knows that there's things that we just struggle
with every day.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Yeah, yeah, you know, but there's just some of these
verses in Revelation andelsewhere that you know.
You have some that are like,yeah, you know Jesus is going to
cover all our sins.
That's a whole point.
Right, right you know to hisgrace.
You know as a cover.
You know his sacrifices coveredour sins.
But then you'll read, you knowsome of Revelation, like there's

(54:11):
going to be a definiteseparation between those who
have done wrong and those whohave done right, and those who
have lived holy and those thathaven't.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I think the whole Bible does that.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Yeah, you know it's kind of a when you when you
start reading deep intoRevelation.
It can kind of scare you whenyou start reading deep into
Revelation.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
It can kind of scare you.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
It's not a pleasant book.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Like maybe even like because you get through, like
Matthew, mark, luke and John,you're like oh, I'm feeling
pretty good.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Yeah, read a little deeper, as long as I yeah, abcs
yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Yes, the ABCs.
You feel pretty good and youfeel a lot of hope and love and
all that.
Then you get to Revelation andthen it's scary, because then
it's always like, okay, the waris on, there's absolutely a
separation and decisions aregoing to be made based on this,
this and this, and it doesn'ttalk so much about, you know,

(55:04):
being covered by the blood as itdoes.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Yeah, we're making, we're drawing the line in the
sand now.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Depending on who's who, and I think it says there's
only like 148,000 of the whatdo you call them Lost.
I lost it.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Jehovah Witnesses.
No, no, no yeah 144.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Yeah, what is it they're believing?
144,000.
Great multitudes, oh, 144.
Yeah, what is it?

Speaker 3 (55:25):
they're believing 144,000.
Great multitudes.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Oh yes.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
So you think, wow, that's a small number, you know,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
So it's just Is that like before rapture, pre-rapture
, after rapture, I mean younever really know.
Yeah, it's hard to tell there.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Yeah, you know, I'm no expert on Revelation.
I'm just saying that you startreading into it and it's like oh
wow, maybe this shouldn't havebeen the last chapter.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
I was thinking that about a minute ago.
I'm like, yeah, you close itand you're like crap, Now what?

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Yeah, you're just like oh boy so many questions.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
You know, but Well, we could always end with chapter
22, the first portion of theriver of life.
And he showed me the pure riverof water of life, clear as
crystal, proceeding from thethrone of God and of the Lamb.
In the middle of the street,and on either side of the river
was a tree of life which boretwelve fruits, each tree

(56:22):
yielding its fruit every month.
The leaves of the tree were thehealing of the nations, and
there shall be no more curse,but the throne of God and the
lamb shall be in it and hisservants shall serve him.
They shall see his face and hisname shall be on their
foreheads.
There shall be no night there.
There is no need for lamp norlight of the sun, for the Lord,

(56:44):
god gives them light and theyshall reign forever and ever.
Let's just end right there,okay?
Who's praying?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
We're going to end on a good note.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Yeah, we'll really have to dive into Revelations
sometime, but yeah it's heavy,that's for sure, it's uh I know,
I just went in because my momsays you know in her visions
that she came back on a blackhorse yeah, I've always so

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I just I just went in to see where we at we got uh oh
yeah, we got it that was good.
We have it 57 minutes yeah justa little light conversation
there, yeah, but uh, yeah, it'dbe interesting, you know, just
to talk to people and see whattheir version is going to be,
right, I mean, imagine just,getting there and seeing those

(57:49):
walls a single pearl, and thenwith all of those jewels, what
beauty I mean, you know, to us,the beauty that I see.

Speaker 4 (57:59):
You know I don't adorn myself, but I mean I wear
plenty of jewelry come Sunday,but I mean I wear plenty of
jewelry come Sunday.
But for me, the beauty here onEarth, some of the magnificent
trees, the sky, the ocean, themountains, the white snow, those
types of things, the flowers Tome all of that is the beauty

(58:22):
that we have here on Earth, andI'm certain that we'll have some
of that as well, not just thejewels and the streets of gold
Right right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Yeah, you know, when my mom had cancer for 15 years
and I truly believe that one ofthe main reasons that she
because they told her in thebeginning she had like eight
months to live, something likethat.
It was very short and she endedup living 15 years with it.
And I think a big part of thatwas she was not ready to quit
living yet.
There were still things thatshe wanted to see.
She wanted to see her grandkids, she still had things to live

(58:52):
for, and I think that and shehad a strong faith in Christ,
and so I think that alone droveher to be able to survive where
maybe others could not.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
You know, and then when my dad had his heart attack
and he had the car accident,you know, when they called me
they said he was gone.
So I get to the hospitalthinking, okay, he's already
passed and when I get there,they had revived him, which was,
just you know, incredible initself yeah and I just remember
that he had these huge tearsrolling down his eyes.

(59:22):
You know, he had his eyes openand just just tears rolling down
his eyes and I'm pretty sure heknew I was there.
But it's just one of thosethings where I often wonder like
that happened.
But as sometimes I just think,okay, he's going to heaven, but
he's thinking like yeah.
I really I'd rather be with mywife, I'd rather be with my mom

(59:44):
and dad, who I have it Causethat was the thing at that time
he had not seen his dad in 35years.
Oh well, you know somethinglike that, yeah, Since like 1978
, 79.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
So imagine that, like you've went that long without
seeing a loved one, yeah, andI'm thinking like you know, okay
, he'd rather, he'd rather goand see all his loved ones but
he wasn't quite ready to gobecause he didn't get to say
goodbye right and it was almostlike yeah, did he get?

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
did he get a glimpse?

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
did he get a glimpse and say you know what I gotta?
I can't go this way right, youknow I have got, I got to at
least go down and you know, um,give him some last moments yeah.
And uh and so yeah, so he wentto Altman and they they put him
under a coma and all.
During that time I'm going intothe chapel, um, which is the

(01:00:41):
first time I've ever done that,you know, like been in a
hospital somewhere and actuallysought out the chapel.
I've ever done that, you know,like been in a hospital
somewhere and actually soughtout the chapel.
And so I went in there andinstead of, like you know,
begging to bring him back.
It was just like the first timewhere I'm like you know what.
Whatever is your will, that'swhat I want you to do.
He's ready to go, I'm okay withit.
I just want to let you know I'mokay with that.
I'm prepared for whatever yourwill is going to be, and I just

(01:01:04):
think that in itself is.
Could that be part of why youknow he has to come back?

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
because it allows me that opportunity to go to the
Lord and show my trust in him.
Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
And it's at that point where you know my dad can
be like, okay, done my business,now we can go.
And because otherwise, like Isaid, it was like there was no.
Because when, as soon as theystarted to bring him out of the
coma, you could even physicallystart to see that he wasn't
going to make it Like his eyewas, you know, from the car
crash or from the heart attack.

(01:01:37):
You could just see his eyestarted changing, it started to
bruise, all this kind of stuff.
So physically you could see himchanging as he came out of it.
So you knew, like that wholething there was no other reason
for that to go on, like forthose, for those couple of days.
You know he probably, you knowlogically, he should have just

(01:01:58):
passed, yeah, over Trinity.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Right, right, but he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
It was like there was just a little bit more
unfinished business, and I'mjust I.
He didn't.
It was like there was just alittle bit more unfinished
business, and I'm just, I'malways just thankful for that
alone For sure, that I had thatopportunity to go to the Lord
and say, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
I want him to stay, that's what I want.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yeah, yes, you know.
If I get what I want, he'sleaving with me.
We're going home Right.
Right, but that's not what youwant, or if it's not what my dad
wants, if he'd rather go withyou then I trust it.
That's what I want, and that'snot easy to do.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
No, that's a hard reality.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
But I think you know, for a lot of people it's like
that's where you got to get.
You know it doesn't matter.
You know if you're not perfect,you got problems, but you're
trusting him.
It's got to get to that levelto where something so dear to
you as your own father, who islike a friend to you is, is
passing.
It's like oh yeah you gotta bewilling to say yep, yeah, I'm,

(01:02:55):
I'm willing to give this up if,if that's your will.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Yeah, like I'm okay, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Because he was yours before he was mine.
Yeah, so that to me, I alwaysthought that was a big part of
my growth.
Yeah, was just that I was ableto do that because, you know,
I'd been through other things.
Like you know, I went through adivorce and I didn't want it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
And I had a really hard time with that, which led
to some of the problems that Ihad falling back and I just
think, like that's now.
I think that was stupid, thatwas silly, like, but that's who
I was then, before that.
And I think if that would havehappened to my dad, then I may
not have behaved that way.

(01:03:35):
It may have been a wholedifferent.
I may have piled it on like, oh, now you're piling this on me
too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Right for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
So I think it happened, and I like to think
that it happened in the rightmoment.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
You could have been, how so many other people are.
Oh, why me God, why me, yeah,just you know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Continue to stay bitter and think well.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
That's one more thing that you know one more reason
why I should believe, because Ijust keep getting say we can
stay bitter or we can get better.
Yeah, yeah.
So thank God, we grow andmature.
Yeah, yeah you know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
So I'd still rather having back right now.
But yeah, uh, but yeah, but Ifeel like that's you know, a big
part of spiritual growth isbeing able to trust you know
something you know, that's uhlike we talk about heaven and
all the things we want when weget there, but being on this
earth and being able to say,yeah, I'm willing to give
something up if it's your willyou know, know, and something

(01:04:28):
that important to you.
So that's just my finalthoughts on that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
How I view that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yeah, anything else, yeah, that's a good way to end
it, because I think a lot of Ithink a lot of christians could
probably understand that, but Ifeel like a lot of people that
aren't saved they're like, well,no, you know why wouldn't that?
Why would a god do that?
You know why?

(01:04:56):
Yeah you know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
But I think when you become spiritually mature then
you can put your own feelingsaside, like you have been doing
for years, you know, andcommitting to the lord in his,
his way, and yeah, and I justthink that a lot of people think
that becoming a christian makesyou weak, like it's hard to

(01:05:19):
explain, but I think sometimesthat's the way we're viewed like
because you know uh yeah,because we couldn't do it on our
own or something we couldn't doit on our own, or just because,
yeah, we try to be, let's say,we try to be perfect, but it's
hard to put in the words, Iguess yeah, no, I get it but I

(01:05:39):
guess for most men it doesn't.
It's not masculine in our worldtoday.
I was going to that I think itwas back in the 19th century
being a religious man made youvery masculine.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Now, it doesn't make you masculine.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, it's almost the opposite.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
That's the way it's viewed.
You don't be like wow, yeah.
He's a God fearing man and he'syou know, no, now it's like
it's almost unmasculine.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, they're not looking at it as God-fearing,
they're looking at it as oh,he's weak.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
He needed God Like he needed something higher than
himself, or something you know,and people need to see it as no,
it's from strength.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
It is masculine, it is God-fearing, it is
God-fearing.
It does come from strength it's, you know it is masculine, it
is God-fearing.
It is God-fearing it is.
You know it does come fromstrength.
It's not a weakness to be.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
You know, it makes us stronger people.
It doesn't make us, you know,more dependent on something.
And I just wish sometimespeople would view it that way,
especially younger people.
You know they have a hard timeunderstanding it.
They, you know, a lot of timesthey just think, well, church is
stupid.
You know what use does thathave for me?
But at the same time, theseyoung kids have all these

(01:06:53):
anxieties Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
All these ridiculous things, yep.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
And if they just have that strength of the Lord in
them just a little bit, you knowthey might not have as much
anxiety.
And if they do have thatanxiety, they learn to carry it
well as opposed to falling intothings that just lead them down

(01:07:17):
the wrong road.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Imagine what this world would be if more fathers
stood up and became thespiritual leader of the
household.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Yeah, it is a big problem.
Wow, yeah, yeah, I would loveto.
I think it's because, like yousaid, it's not yeah, it is it
problem.
Wow, yeah, yeah, I would loveto.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
I think it's because, like you said, it's not.
Yeah, it is, it's just not,it's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
You know, you tell any you know guy at work, which
it's not all of them, butthere's just so many guys at
work.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
If you come up and say hey, I'm a Christian.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
they laugh at you.
They think it's silly, theyjust do.
They don't see the strength init.
They don't think it hasanything to offer them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Well, it's because that's what the world is
portraying, that's what theworld wants to portray it as,
and that's what it started tolook like for the majority of
the people.
But it's not.
It's the opposite.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Yeah just like.
Well, like I said, like satanhas made the world think that
way right right, and that's onemore way, like it's that you
know to get into our homes andyeah, yeah signs of the times.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
All right, so get us out of here before we get on
another topic.
Whose turn is it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Yours, oh great Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
All righty, let's see here.
Okay, okay, ready, all right,dear Heavenly Father, lord, I
just thank you for this timethat we have this evening.
I thank you that we can comeand speak what's on our minds
with whatever topic that may bealigned for us.
Lord, I just pray that thisreaches whoever it may need to

(01:08:55):
reach, whether it's, you know,in our little town or village or
our friend groups, familygroups, or miles away and
countries away.
I just pray that whatever needsto be heard is heard and they
will take it.
Take it and run and pray fortravel.
Mercies and in your name, amen,amen.