Are you navigating the challenges of a reactive dog? In this episode, we dissect the misunderstood concept of 'socialization' and reveal humane, controlled methods to help your reactive dog overcome their fears. I'll walk you through a technique that works outside the dog park fence, offering behavior modification opportunities while keeping your canine at a safe distance from their triggers.
I discuss an axiom of dog behavior when it comes to visual triggers and why walking your reactive dog outside the dog park could be a technique you've been searching for. By the end of our chat, you'll understand why tossing a reactive dog inside a dog park to 'socialize' them isn't just ineffective—it could worsen their anxieties. So gear up and join us; we're sharing practical advice and strategies to turn a dog park into a behavioral tool.
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About Scott Sheaffer
Scott Sheaffer, CCBC-KA, CDBC, CPDT-KA, is a certified dog behavior consultant who has worked with thousands of dog owners and their aggressive dogs. Scott specializes in the assessment and treatment of fear, anxiety, aggression, and phobias in dogs six months and older. For more information about Scott, see USADogBehavior.com.
Disclaimer
If you have a dog who is aggressive and dangerous to humans, it is important that you immediately consult directly with an experienced and certified canine behavior consultant who specializes in dog aggression to humans. Take proper measures to ensure that your dog is never in a position to injure anyone. The information presented in this podcast is for educational purposes only and is neither intended nor implied to replace the need for the direct involvement of an experienced and certified canine behavior consultant who specializes in dog aggression to humans. Scott Sheaffer, the Grumpy Dogs podcast and USA Dog Behavior, LLC, are not liable for any incidents or outcomes resulting from following the advice given in this podcast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Sheaffer (00:00):
Hi, I'm Scott Sheaffer, your host.
In today's episode, we're goingto talk about dog parks.
This is episode four of a12-part series that takes you
through the nuts and bolts ofaddressing the major types of
dog fear, reactivity andaggression.
You've probably heard someonesay that you know that owns a
(00:20):
dog.
I'm going to take my dog to adog park today to socialize them
, and this will be coming from adog.
I'm going to take my dog to adog park today to socialize them
, and this would be coming froma dog owner who has a free or
reactive or aggressive dog, andfrom this point forward, we'll
just call them reactive dogs.
You may have tried taking yourdog into a dog park yourself.
We're going to talk in thisepisode about how to properly
(00:43):
use dog parks today to treatthese triggers with your dog
humans and dogs, that is but ina different, safe and effective
way.
Are you struggling with a dogthat is anxious or aggressive?
You're at the right placebecause in this podcast series,
we educate dog owners,veterinary practices and dog
(01:06):
trainers on how to overcome dogfear and aggression using humane
methods.
My name is Scott Sheaffer andit's my mission to help you
better understand your dog'sbehavior.
The dreaded dog park.
You either love them or youhate them.
(01:27):
Some vets don't like thembecause of infectious diseases,
the spread of infectiousdiseases, but many dog owners
hate them because of a badexperience their dog has had
while at a dog park.
It seems like every YouTubevideo on dog training tells you
that you should take yourreactive dog into a dog park in
(01:49):
order to and I hate doing this,but I'm going to socialize them.
Socialize there's a word that'sreally misused and we cover it
in some other episodes of theGrumpy Dogs podcast.
Most people do this incorrectly, and today we're going to talk
about a way to socialize yourdog properly.
We're going to talk about atechnique that you can use at
(02:13):
dog parks to help your reactivedog.
However, there's a twist on howwe're going to use dog parks,
and this twist avoids all theproblems that we associate with
dog parks mentioned earlier, andeven some additional problems.
Why is that?
Because we're not taking yourdog inside the dog park.
We're working outside of thedog park with your dog, and
(02:38):
here's why this works so well.
We know that if we take yourdog inside the dog park, we can
have some problems that we werejust talking about.
However, if we stay outside thedog park, that's not going to
be a problem, and the reasonthat we can do these exercises
out of the dog park is becauseof an axiom in dog behavior, and
(02:59):
that axiom, or that principle,is if a dog can see a trigger in
your dog's case, that would bea dog or a human that they react
to.
If they can just see them,they're going to have a problem
with it.
And let's think about it In adog park, which is almost always
encircled by a chain link fence, your dog can see these dogs
(03:21):
and people inside the dog park,but remember, if they can see it
, there's a problem.
Even though there's a chainlink fence there and we're going
to use this to our advantageyour dog is going to be reactive
to these triggers because thefence doesn't mean anything to
him, and so this gives us anopportunity to do behavior
modification exercises that arecompletely safe and under our
(03:46):
control.
Before we get into the exercise,I want to say a couple of
things about dog parks.
Taking a reactive dog into adog park is almost always a bad
idea.
That's why we stay outside, andwe stay outside because of that
line of sight thing.
If your dog can see thetriggers, it works just great,
even when they're behind a chainlink fence thing.
If your dog can see thetriggers, it works just great,
(04:06):
even when they're behind a chainlink fence.
When we take a reactive doginto a dog park, we lose control
of our dog and we're not ableto do any kind of behavior
modification exercises with them.
They are literally out of ourhands.
We don't even have the leash,we have no control and they are
exposed to all kinds of triggers, whether human or dog, in ways
that are going to be probablytoo much for them, and this
(04:27):
exposure can make things worse.
A lot of dog owners, by the way, think well, I've taken my dog
into a dog park and they seem tobe fine.
They must enjoy dog parks andbenefit from them because they
seem to do so well at dog parks.
However, if you really observethese reactive dogs at dog parks
, you'll notice that most ofthem, if not all of them, don't
(04:51):
interact very much or very wellwith the other dogs.
They choose to walk around theperimeter fence by themselves or
tend to stay close to theirowners.
They're hiding, they're nothaving a great time, since dogs
are off leash at dog parks andare able to zig and zag more
(05:12):
freely.
They are able to selectivelyavoid dog and human triggers.
This makes them appear morecomfortable.
This zigging and zagging thatthey can do is something they
can't do when they're walkingwith you on a leash.
In short, if you have a fearfuldog, reactive dog, aggressive
dog, don't take them into a dogparks.
Use the outside of the dogparks.
(05:34):
Before I tell you about the dogpark treatment exercise in
today's episode, I want toquickly remind you that I have a
bunch of free dog behaviorarticles on all kinds of dog
behavior subjects that aresearchable on my website.
Go to grumpydogspodcastcom andselect the articles tab if
you're interested.
And now for the exercise.
(05:56):
It's comprised of six simplesteps.
We're going to desensitize andcounter condition your dog using
this technique.
All right.
Step one select a dog park nearyou that has some real estate
surrounding it, in other words,some grass and stuff that gives
you some room to work with yourdog.
(06:16):
You can find dog parks allaround you by searching for them
on Google Maps.
Just put in dog parks and sinceGoogle knows where you live,
it's going to populate theanswers with those near you.
It's always good to find aboutthree or four of these dog parks
, as you'll want to do thisexercise we're going to talk
about in a second at multipledog parks.
(06:36):
So your dog will learn togeneralize what they're learning
.
In other words, for them tolearn that, no matter where they
are, that dogs and humansaren't so scary, not just at one
dog park.
We're going to do a second dogpark, a third dog park, maybe
even a fourth, and they start togeneralize what they're
learning.
All right, so you've selected adog park.
Step one.
Step two You'll want to go tothese dog parks when dogs and
(07:01):
people are there.
In other words, we need thetriggers to be there, or this
won't be valuable.
We need your dog to seetriggers.
Best times are evenings andweekends, when the weather is
nice, in other words, whenpeople aren't working.
All right, we have selectedsome dog parks.
We know when we need to go.
Now let's start doing theexercise.
(07:23):
Step three select a distancefrom the fence where your dog is
curious, but not panicky,aggressive or fearful of the
triggers that they are lookingat behind the dog park fence.
And how do you know what thisdistance is?
You know what this distance isbecause if this is the dog park
fence, and this is your dog.
(07:44):
When you get too close to thedog park fence, they're going to
start becoming reactive, andwhat does that look like?
That looks like barking,growling, lunging, whining,
really pulling toward the fence.
You don't want any of thosethings.
You're too close.
You want to be far enough awayso that your dog is just sort of
casually looking like oh,what's back there?
(08:06):
Hmm, what's that about?
Just kind of looking like this.
Okay, too close.
Your dog is doing thoseaggressive type behaviors that I
just mentioned About.
The right distance is they'relooking, but that's about all.
Too far, they're not looking atall.
They're completelydisinterested.
So what we're looking for isactually called the yellow zone,
(08:27):
or I also call it the effectivezone.
It's a zone, it's a distancewhere they're kind of looking,
but nothing more than that.
Okay, that's what you'relooking at.
Okay, now that you'veestablished that, let's move on
to step four.
Before I do, though, when weactually start to do the
exercise, who's going todetermine what this distance is?
(08:48):
Your dog is.
Just remember that your dog isgoing to tell you what this
distance is, not you.
You're looking at your dog todetermine that.
Once you've established thisdistance, I want you to start
walking your dog in big circlesabout 20 to 30 feet in diameter.
So here's the dog park fence,here are your circles.
So this is 20 to 30 feet indiameter.
(09:10):
Right, you're doing like this.
You just, these circles, by theway, are stationary, you're not
moving around or anything,you're just you're stationary,
doing these circles.
Your goal, remember, is farenough away, to be far enough
away from the dog park fence, soyour dog just appears curious.
This could initially be acouple of hundred feet or much
(09:30):
closer, depending on what yourdog is telling you.
Here we are All right.
So here we are doing this.
Now let's move on to step five.
Dog is just kind of curious, iskind of looking, everything's
going great.
Every time your dog looks at thedogs and humans in a dog park
while doing these circles, givethem a very tasty and very small
(09:52):
training treat.
This is the counterconditioning part of the
exercise.
You're helping your dog make anew, positive association with
the triggers.
In the episode notes I'llprovide a link with information
on a couple of dog trainingtreats I really like.
So it looks like this so here'sthe dog park fence.
(10:13):
Let's get that right aboutthere and here you are doing
these circles, okay, every timeyour dog looks, no matter where
they are on the circle treat,treat, treat, treat.
It may happen pretty quickly,which is why I'm really a big
fan of having those treat bags.
And one way you know your dogis really looking at those
(10:34):
triggers is they'll their headwill pop up a little bit and the
base of their ears will come up.
Even on floppy ear dogs It'llkind of pop up like this, do
like that.
That's a real good indicationyour dog is looking directly in
the triggers inside the dog park.
Once your dog, while doing thesecircles, becomes almost bored
with this circling at a givendistance, it's time to move the
(10:58):
whole circle a little closer tothe fence.
So it would look like thisYou're doing these circles and
you're going to just shift a fewfeet closer, but only when your
dog is not worried anymoreabout these things behind the
dog park fence.
Their curiosity is starting towane, they're getting bored with
this, and that's a good thing.
(11:18):
Moving closer very slowly isthe desensitization part of the
exercise.
The counter conditioning is thetreat part.
The desensitization part ismoving closer very slowly.
We are both counterconditioning with treats noted
earlier and desensitizingsimultaneously with the distance
(11:40):
to the dog part fence, doing itvery slowly.
This exercise is simple, butwe're using solid animal
behavior science.
How long should you do thisexercise when you go to the dog
park Doing it for I don't know.
20 minutes in a single sessionwould be pretty good.
That would be excellent.
20 minutes is a long time to dothis.
I recommend scheduling twosessions per week at various dog
(12:05):
parks until you can routinelytake your dog right up to the
fence.
You're outside, of course, thedog park and he or she is no
longer concerned with the dogand or human triggers behind the
chain link fence.
After doing maybe 10 to 15 ofthese sessions, you should begin
(12:25):
to see significant improvementwith your dog.
Of course, every dog isdifferent and you may need to do
more sessions.
Your mileage and your dog mayvary.
As they say, when you can.
Here's a good test when you canget out of the car with your
dog at the dog park and walkpretty much right up to the
fence and your dog is not reallythat interested in what's going
(12:48):
on behind the fence, you'remaking great progress.
This is one of the bigindicators and it's very
rewarding when you start to seethis happen.
The benefits of this exercisecan be seen when walking your
dog in the neighborhood.
In other words, this exercise,as it should, translates to the
leash walk.
Your dog will be able to getcloser and closer to these
(13:11):
triggers walk.
Your dog will be able to getcloser and closer to these
triggers without being soreactive.
Your dog will be less concernedwith triggers when taking leash
walks with him or her in yourneighborhood.
Remember, this exercise isalways done outside of dog parks
, so don't take your dog intothe dog park even after you've
achieved your goals with yourdog.
(13:32):
If you haven't listened to thefirst three episodes of this
12-part series, please do sobefore starting this exercise
with your dog.
You'll learn importantfoundational skills that will be
really helpful when you try todo this exercise.
So here's your assignment ifyou wish and if you're ready to
do this with your dog, searchfor about three to four dog
(13:55):
parks near you and start doingthis exercise with your reactive
dog at least a couple times aweek for the next few weeks.
Figure on 10 to 15 sessionstotal.
In our next episode in this 12part series, we'll continue to
provide you information andtools to help you with your
reactive dog.
Thanks for listening, as always.
(14:16):
If you'd like to leave me amessage, please go to
grumpydogspodcastcom and scrollto the bottom of the page, where
you'll find a place to leave mea written or voicemail message.
Thank you for joining me today.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare this podcast with other
(14:38):
dog lovers.
Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll continue our dive
into the world of dog behavior.
Hi, I'm Scott Sheaffer, your host.
In today's episode, we're goingto talk about dog parks.
This is episode four of a12-part series that takes you
through the nuts and bolts ofaddressing the major types of
dog fear, reactivity andaggression.
You've probably heard someonesay that you know that owns a
(00:20):
dog.
I'm going to take my dog to adog park today to socialize them
, and this will be coming from adog.
I'm going to take my dog to adog park today to socialize them
, and this would be coming froma dog owner who has a free or
reactive or aggressive dog, andfrom this point forward, we'll
just call them reactive dogs.
You may have tried taking yourdog into a dog park yourself.
We're going to talk in thisepisode about how to properly
(00:43):
use dog parks today to treatthese triggers with your dog
humans and dogs, that is but ina different, safe and effective
way.
Are you struggling with a dogthat is anxious or aggressive?
You're at the right placebecause in this podcast series,
we educate dog owners,veterinary practices and dog
(01:06):
trainers on how to overcome dogfear and aggression using humane
methods.
My name is Scott Sheaffer andit's my mission to help you
better understand your dog'sbehavior.
The dreaded dog park.
You either love them or youhate them.
(01:27):
Some vets don't like thembecause of infectious diseases,
the spread of infectiousdiseases, but many dog owners
hate them because of a badexperience their dog has had
while at a dog park.
It seems like every YouTubevideo on dog training tells you
that you should take yourreactive dog into a dog park in
(01:49):
order to and I hate doing this,but I'm going to socialize them.
Socialize there's a word that'sreally misused and we cover it
in some other episodes of theGrumpy Dogs podcast.
Most people do this incorrectly, and today we're going to talk
about a way to socialize yourdog properly.
We're going to talk about atechnique that you can use at
(02:13):
dog parks to help your reactivedog.
However, there's a twist on howwe're going to use dog parks,
and this twist avoids all theproblems that we associate with
dog parks mentioned earlier, andeven some additional problems.
Why is that?
Because we're not taking yourdog inside the dog park.
We're working outside of thedog park with your dog, and
(02:38):
here's why this works so well.
We know that if we take yourdog inside the dog park, we can
have some problems that we werejust talking about.
However, if we stay outside thedog park, that's not going to
be a problem, and the reasonthat we can do these exercises
out of the dog park is becauseof an axiom in dog behavior, and
(02:59):
that axiom, or that principle,is if a dog can see a trigger in
your dog's case, that would bea dog or a human that they react
to.
If they can just see them,they're going to have a problem
with it.
And let's think about it In adog park, which is almost always
encircled by a chain link fence, your dog can see these dogs
(03:21):
and people inside the dog park,but remember, if they can see it
, there's a problem.
Even though there's a chainlink fence there and we're going
to use this to our advantageyour dog is going to be reactive
to these triggers because thefence doesn't mean anything to
him, and so this gives us anopportunity to do behavior
modification exercises that arecompletely safe and under our
(03:46):
control.
Before we get into the exercise,I want to say a couple of
things about dog parks.
Taking a reactive dog into adog park is almost always a bad
idea.
That's why we stay outside, andwe stay outside because of that
line of sight thing.
If your dog can see thetriggers, it works just great,
even when they're behind a chainlink fence thing.
If your dog can see thetriggers, it works just great,
(04:06):
even when they're behind a chainlink fence.
When we take a reactive doginto a dog park, we lose control
of our dog and we're not ableto do any kind of behavior
modification exercises with them.
They are literally out of ourhands.
We don't even have the leash,we have no control and they are
exposed to all kinds of triggers, whether human or dog, in ways
that are going to be probablytoo much for them, and this
(04:27):
exposure can make things worse.
A lot of dog owners, by the way, think well, I've taken my dog
into a dog park and they seem tobe fine.
They must enjoy dog parks andbenefit from them because they
seem to do so well at dog parks.
However, if you really observethese reactive dogs at dog parks
, you'll notice that most ofthem, if not all of them, don't
(04:51):
interact very much or very wellwith the other dogs.
They choose to walk around theperimeter fence by themselves or
tend to stay close to theirowners.
They're hiding, they're nothaving a great time, since dogs
are off leash at dog parks andare able to zig and zag more
(05:12):
freely.
They are able to selectivelyavoid dog and human triggers.
This makes them appear morecomfortable.
This zigging and zagging thatthey can do is something they
can't do when they're walkingwith you on a leash.
In short, if you have a fearfuldog, reactive dog, aggressive
dog, don't take them into a dogparks.
Use the outside of the dogparks.
(05:34):
Before I tell you about the dogpark treatment exercise in
today's episode, I want toquickly remind you that I have a
bunch of free dog behaviorarticles on all kinds of dog
behavior subjects that aresearchable on my website.
Go to grumpydogspodcastcom andselect the articles tab if
you're interested.
And now for the exercise.
(05:56):
It's comprised of six simplesteps.
We're going to desensitize andcounter condition your dog using
this technique.
All right.
Step one select a dog park nearyou that has some real estate
surrounding it, in other words,some grass and stuff that gives
you some room to work with yourdog.
(06:16):
You can find dog parks allaround you by searching for them
on Google Maps.
Just put in dog parks and sinceGoogle knows where you live,
it's going to populate theanswers with those near you.
It's always good to find aboutthree or four of these dog parks
, as you'll want to do thisexercise we're going to talk
about in a second at multipledog parks.
(06:36):
So your dog will learn togeneralize what they're learning
.
In other words, for them tolearn that, no matter where they
are, that dogs and humansaren't so scary, not just at one
dog park.
We're going to do a second dogpark, a third dog park, maybe
even a fourth, and they start togeneralize what they're
learning.
All right, so you've selected adog park.
Step one.
Step two You'll want to go tothese dog parks when dogs and
(07:01):
people are there.
In other words, we need thetriggers to be there, or this
won't be valuable.
We need your dog to seetriggers.
Best times are evenings andweekends, when the weather is
nice, in other words, whenpeople aren't working.
All right, we have selectedsome dog parks.
We know when we need to go.
Now let's start doing theexercise.
(07:23):
Step three select a distancefrom the fence where your dog is
curious, but not panicky,aggressive or fearful of the
triggers that they are lookingat behind the dog park fence.
And how do you know what thisdistance is?
You know what this distance isbecause if this is the dog park
fence, and this is your dog.
(07:44):
When you get too close to thedog park fence, they're going to
start becoming reactive, andwhat does that look like?
That looks like barking,growling, lunging, whining,
really pulling toward the fence.
You don't want any of thosethings.
You're too close.
You want to be far enough awayso that your dog is just sort of
casually looking like oh,what's back there?
(08:06):
Hmm, what's that about?
Just kind of looking like this.
Okay, too close.
Your dog is doing thoseaggressive type behaviors that I
just mentioned About.
The right distance is they'relooking, but that's about all.
Too far, they're not looking atall.
They're completelydisinterested.
So what we're looking for isactually called the yellow zone,
(08:27):
or I also call it the effectivezone.
It's a zone, it's a distancewhere they're kind of looking,
but nothing more than that.
Okay, that's what you'relooking at.
Okay, now that you'veestablished that, let's move on
to step four.
Before I do, though, when weactually start to do the
exercise, who's going todetermine what this distance is?
(08:48):
Your dog is.
Just remember that your dog isgoing to tell you what this
distance is, not you.
You're looking at your dog todetermine that.
Once you've established thisdistance, I want you to start
walking your dog in big circlesabout 20 to 30 feet in diameter.
So here's the dog park fence,here are your circles.
So this is 20 to 30 feet indiameter.
(09:10):
Right, you're doing like this.
You just, these circles, by theway, are stationary, you're not
moving around or anything,you're just you're stationary,
doing these circles.
Your goal, remember, is farenough away, to be far enough
away from the dog park fence, soyour dog just appears curious.
This could initially be acouple of hundred feet or much
(09:30):
closer, depending on what yourdog is telling you.
Here we are All right.
So here we are doing this.
Now let's move on to step five.
Dog is just kind of curious, iskind of looking, everything's
going great.
Every time your dog looks at thedogs and humans in a dog park
while doing these circles, givethem a very tasty and very small
(09:52):
training treat.
This is the counterconditioning part of the
exercise.
You're helping your dog make anew, positive association with
the triggers.
In the episode notes I'llprovide a link with information
on a couple of dog trainingtreats I really like.
So it looks like this so here'sthe dog park fence.
(10:13):
Let's get that right aboutthere and here you are doing
these circles, okay, every timeyour dog looks, no matter where
they are on the circle treat,treat, treat, treat.
It may happen pretty quickly,which is why I'm really a big
fan of having those treat bags.
And one way you know your dogis really looking at those
(10:34):
triggers is they'll their headwill pop up a little bit and the
base of their ears will come up.
Even on floppy ear dogs It'llkind of pop up like this, do
like that.
That's a real good indicationyour dog is looking directly in
the triggers inside the dog park.
Once your dog, while doing thesecircles, becomes almost bored
with this circling at a givendistance, it's time to move the
(10:58):
whole circle a little closer tothe fence.
So it would look like thisYou're doing these circles and
you're going to just shift a fewfeet closer, but only when your
dog is not worried anymoreabout these things behind the
dog park fence.
Their curiosity is starting towane, they're getting bored with
this, and that's a good thing.
(11:18):
Moving closer very slowly isthe desensitization part of the
exercise.
The counter conditioning is thetreat part.
The desensitization part ismoving closer very slowly.
We are both counterconditioning with treats noted
earlier and desensitizingsimultaneously with the distance
(11:40):
to the dog part fence, doing itvery slowly.
This exercise is simple, butwe're using solid animal
behavior science.
How long should you do thisexercise when you go to the dog
park Doing it for I don't know.
20 minutes in a single sessionwould be pretty good.
That would be excellent.
20 minutes is a long time to dothis.
I recommend scheduling twosessions per week at various dog
(12:05):
parks until you can routinelytake your dog right up to the
fence.
You're outside, of course, thedog park and he or she is no
longer concerned with the dogand or human triggers behind the
chain link fence.
After doing maybe 10 to 15 ofthese sessions, you should begin
(12:25):
to see significant improvementwith your dog.
Of course, every dog isdifferent and you may need to do
more sessions.
Your mileage and your dog mayvary.
As they say, when you can.
Here's a good test when you canget out of the car with your
dog at the dog park and walkpretty much right up to the
fence and your dog is not reallythat interested in what's going
(12:48):
on behind the fence, you'remaking great progress.
This is one of the bigindicators and it's very
rewarding when you start to seethis happen.
The benefits of this exercisecan be seen when walking your
dog in the neighborhood.
In other words, this exercise,as it should, translates to the
leash walk.
Your dog will be able to getcloser and closer to these
(13:11):
triggers walk.
Your dog will be able to getcloser and closer to these
triggers without being soreactive.
Your dog will be less concernedwith triggers when taking leash
walks with him or her in yourneighborhood.
Remember, this exercise isalways done outside of dog parks
, so don't take your dog intothe dog park even after you've
achieved your goals with yourdog.
(13:32):
If you haven't listened to thefirst three episodes of this
12-part series, please do sobefore starting this exercise
with your dog.
You'll learn importantfoundational skills that will be
really helpful when you try todo this exercise.
So here's your assignment ifyou wish and if you're ready to
do this with your dog, searchfor about three to four dog
(13:55):
parks near you and start doingthis exercise with your reactive
dog at least a couple times aweek for the next few weeks.
Figure on 10 to 15 sessionstotal.
In our next episode in this 12part series, we'll continue to
provide you information andtools to help you with your
reactive dog.
Thanks for listening, as always.
(14:16):
If you'd like to leave me amessage, please go to
grumpydogspodcastcom and scrollto the bottom of the page, where
you'll find a place to leave mea written or voicemail message.
Thank you for joining me today.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare this podcast with other
(14:38):
dog lovers.
Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll continue our dive
into the world of dog behavior.
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