March 3, 2025 • 62 mins
In this eye opening episode, we engage with Empress, a multi-licensed beauty ritualist and founder of Root Honey, who bridges the worlds of beauty and holistic wellness. Our conversation delves into the transformative power that hair has in our identity and emotional well-being, revealing how beauty rituals serve as a portal to self-care and acceptance.
Empress shares her journey and cultural connections to beauty, emphasizing that hair is much more than just a physical trait — it holds deep significance linked to our histories, communities, and mental health. Together, we explore emotional challenges faced by many, including the struggles of hair loss and the healing journey that unfolds through mindfulness and holistic approaches.
Listeners will discover practical strategies like mirror work and affirmations that support emotional healing while promoting healthy hair practices. These insights highlight the importance of nurturing oneself and embracing change with grace.
As Empress invites us to engage in deep conversations about mental health and beauty, she also looks ahead to exciting upcoming workshops that foster community and support. This episode resonates with anyone seeking to find empowerment through their beauty journeys.
Join us for this thought-provoking exploration, and let’s redefine our relationships with our hair together. Don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave us a review!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to another episode of Hair what I'm
Saying.
Today we're diving into thetransformative power of beauty
as a ritual for well-being, witha very special guest.
Joining us is Empress, amulti-licensed beauty ritualist.
Textured hair specialist,herbalist and esthetician and
educator.
Hair specialist, herbalist andesthetician and educator.
Through her brand, root Honey,she bridges the worlds of beauty
(00:32):
and holistic wellness,exploring a sacred connection
between self-care and communitycare.
Empress brings a uniqueperspective to the conversation,
blending the art and science oftextured hair care with
intentional beauty rituals thatnurture both hair and soul.
In this episode, we'll discussthe emotional impact of hair
loss, holistic approaches tohair restoration and how we can
create more mindful, balancedspaces in the beauty industry.
(00:53):
So, whether you're a beautyprofessional, a client on a hair
journey or just someone lookingfor a deeper connection to your
beauty rituals, this episode isfor you.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart.
Today we have Empress of RootHoney, all the way from Detroit,
michigan, joining us.
Welcome to the show, empress.
How are you?
(01:14):
I'm well.
How are you Doing?
Fantastic.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
I really appreciate you wantingto share your holistic
perspective on how to restorehair loss, so thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, is this your firstpodcast?
No, this is not my first onethis is my second one, though.
(01:36):
Okay, good, that's goodinformation.
I just like to know, you know,and I don't even know why I like
to know.
I just like to know to know,you know, and I don't even know
why I like to know.
I just like to know, yeah, yeah, see, how the flow gonna be.
Yeah, oh, yeah, I guess.
So the flow.
And I just remember, likerecording my first podcast, how
nervous I was.
So, you know, I just want toknow, like trying to feel your
(02:02):
energy on the other side of thecamera.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Can you share a little bit about yourself and
what led you to become aholistic wellness advocate and
beauty ritualist?
Yes, so I'm Empress, as shesaid, founder of Root Honey.
My journey through holisticbeauty has been a deeply
personal thing and a deeplyspiritual thing, so it was kind
(02:31):
of only natural that this is theexpression of it.
Now, I grew up in some naturalhair salons in Detroit and my,
my grandmother, mygreat-grandmother, that I later
found out was actually acosmetologist and herbalist.
(02:51):
Oh wow.
But the thing was is that shepassed right before she actually
got her physical license.
And, yeah, I guess I just kindof come through all of that the
elders in my community that havebeen pioneers in the industry
(03:13):
for a very long time.
I spent some time working atTextures by Nefertiti, which is
a prominent salon here inDetroit.
It's not like I've heard ofthat, I'm sure you have.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, I think I have.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, so being poured into by elders and I literally
started working there when I was14 and stayed there until
recently and, yeah, just beingpoured into by the women getting
the feel of being a part of thesalon culture during the
(03:50):
conversations.
Um, like I said, I was justaround um older concepts, um
holistic principles, and so itjust naturally kind of came like
this is just what we do, likewe are always honoring the
holistic aspects of us, of eachother.
(04:11):
Okay, I love that.
Yeah, what inspired yourpassion for bridging the
physical, emotional, mental andspiritual aspects of beauty?
Beauty, um, well, it's hard,like I said, to separate, in my
(04:32):
opinion, those things becausefor us, as black folk, hair
black, never black.
You know, hair has never justbeen just hair, right?
Um, especially when you look atafrican culture, when you look
at our culture, we look atindigenous traditions, beauty is
so tied to our identity, it'sso tied to the way that we
(04:56):
resist in this world, is tied toour healing, um, and even just
like our rejuvenation, like forour souls, for our spirits, and
there's many ways that we honorthose things within our culture
and hair just happens to be oneof those, like you know you see,
the.
(05:17):
You know the memories of likebeing on the porch getting your
hair braided.
You know like going to yourgrandma's house to have some tea
.
You know like theseconversations, these house to
have some tea.
You know like theseconversations, these moments
where we get to nurture eachother.
It's hard to separate that, andso my work is just like
bridging that gap and even justspeaking to that.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, so it sounds like you grew up in the healthy
environment of nurturing andtaking care of your hair, no
matter the texture.
Yeah, because unfortunately, inour race we can face some
texturism as well, and it's notalways like that, you know, for
(06:00):
you know some of us, you knowI'm I feel like I'm fortunate to
have had the experience thatyou have had.
But I've had, you know, guestson the show who have had the
exact opposite encounter, someof this in my chair, where, you
(06:27):
know, psychologically, you know,some of us have not been able
to have that nurturing and thatupbringing of loving their hair,
no matter what the texture is.
I don't know if you ever hadthat.
Have you ever had that whereyou had to coach a client
through learning to accept whatnaturally caused out of their
scalp and, um, how was that?
If you ever had to do that, yes, um, I have to do it quite a
(06:51):
bit right.
Yeah, it's really uncommon for,um, I feel like today is more
practice for us too, as blackwomen, if we have daughters and
if we're in the industry ascosmetologists.
We are now trying to reallyhelp reverse that sock, that
(07:12):
unhealthy emotional connectionthat most black women have with
their naturally curly hair.
You know, yeah, it's only a fewof us out here that actually
got the experience like that youjust described.
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, it's a real thing.
I often come in contact withpeople who are coming in and
(07:38):
they're doing this thing, wherethey're trying a new thing.
What's the new thing?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Like the natural hair , like maybe they're
transitioning.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, gotcha, yeah, like that that's a new thing.
What's the new thing?
Like the natural hair, likemaybe they're transitioning,
okay, gotcha, yeah, like that'sthe new thing.
Like, oh, I'm going to actuallyjust show up the way I am, like
that's the new thing.
And so it does turn into thiswhole therapeutic thing where
we're talking about thepsychology, we're talking about
(08:03):
the spiritual aspect, we'retalking about your lifestyle.
We're talking about thespiritual aspect.
We're talking about yourlifestyle, you know, especially
working holistically, like we'retalking about what you're
eating, what you're thinkingabout, what you're reading.
You know, absolutely yeah.
It's often, though and that'swhy hair is this portal and
gateway to actually do all ofthese things Like, yeah, are
(08:29):
they receiving the informationor have you ever had anyone to?
Just you just know it's deeperthan what you can, you know,
assist with.
A lot of the times they're veryreceptive.
Good, I don't have too manypeople that are not Um, a lot of
the times they're veryreceptive.
Good, I don't have too manypeople that are not Um, and yeah
(08:51):
, they're.
They're a lot of time comingbecause of a journey that
they've been on already.
So, um, you know, as they getto us, we're kind of one of
those stops on that journey.
So like they already understandsome things about themselves
that have made them want to trythis and want to embrace their
(09:15):
natural self, so they're kind ofalready privy to that.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, we are on the front line, right.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, literally on the front line right.
Yeah yeah, literally, why do?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
you think hair is so deeply connected to
self-identity, especially intextured hair communities.
I mean, our hair is legacy.
So that's how I look at it isour hair holds these stories,
our practices hold these stories, and so hair is just the
(09:52):
physical appearance of thesethings.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It is for sure.
I love how you use that as ananalogy.
It's like the internalism, yeah, and the hair is like the
external of.
You know these stories, youknow and even the consciousness.
Absolutely, you care to likeelaborate more on that?
I like the direction that thisis going in.
(10:18):
Yeah, um, so, as we know, like,how we present ourselves has a
lot to do with where we arepsychologically, where we are
spiritually, even like you see,the Rastafari people with the
locks and they just let it go.
And it's just, I'm free, I'm not, I'm not going to be bound by
(10:40):
aesthetics, but also like it's adope aesthetic.
So right, it is it.
It definitely is, yeah, forsure.
Then you got the um people downin florida who got the wicks
going but it's a.
Thing yeah, it's a thing.
Um, they're honoring theirhaitian ancestry thing.
(11:02):
So we've always done this, andthen you take it over to the
continent.
Before we even got here, hairhas always been like oh okay,
you're a part of this clan ofpeople.
Oh, you're royalty.
Oh, you do this, like.
So it always has been this bigthing for our identity.
It's never been just hair,that's right.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Girl I had to.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I was like let me bring it out of her Girl
elaborate on it.
Educate please, because I knewwhat you were talking about, but
it's only because I'm in theindustry and you know we studied
the history, you know but, fora listener?
they may not.
So that's why I was like comeon, elaborate on that, drop the
(11:45):
gems and let them know this isso historical, for real.
It's so many layers and that'swhy you can't just deal with
just the hair as in just ahairstylist, or go to people
that even just view it as that,because you will miss so much
where there's opportunity for somuch growth.
Yeah for sure, love that.
(12:07):
Thank you, no problem, that wasa great answer, thank you.
What are some of the mostcommon emotional struggles
people face when dealing withhair loss?
When?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
dealing with hair loss.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Definitely it's a lot of shame, a lot of grief and
sometimes even a sense ofworthlessness and visibility,
right and just internal struggle.
You know, it's, it's, it's athing because it is so tied to
(12:53):
our identity, so when we areexperiencing hair loss, it can
feel like I don't know who I amwithout this hair, without me
being able to express it.
So, yeah, it's, it's.
It can be seen as a loss ofpower, I know, and so my work is
(13:15):
to Help with that transition.
Oh, sidebar, I'm also a doula.
Oh, my gosh girl, you're justlike this healer.
Yeah, like you.
You you want to heal and help.
Yeah, I love that.
Yes, so yeah, thank you but,yeah, helping with transitions
(13:41):
is something that I um I, sothis is just one of them.
When people experience hairloss, it is a deeply emotional
thing, but it also can be anempowering thing, and that's
where the transmutation comes in.
And that's what I like to focuson is how are we going to use
(14:02):
this as an opportunity toelevate ourselves, to honor
where it is you are, becausewhatever has happened has led
you here, and so it's reallyacceptance.
At that point, let's take it astep further and just honor
where it is you are currently.
(14:22):
Currently, if it can be fixed,it can be fixed.
If it cannot be fixed, wellthen let's go ahead and work on
our acceptance piece.
And so, again, it just goesstraight back into the spiritual
aspects, in the soul level, ofhow we feel beautiful, because I
think, Because I thinkbeautiful, and feeling that way
(14:46):
is really just feeling inalignment, feeling connected.
So when we feel disconnected,we feel like, oh, I'm not
identifying the way I want to, Ican't express myself the way
that I want to, I feel somehowdisconnected from my purpose.
It can be so many things and,like I said, it's just about
(15:09):
coming back to center andknowing where the connection
actually is?
And yeah, just honor andexperience.
I love how you mentioned evenif there is no solution to you
know basically revive the hairfollicles so that the hair can
continue to grow.
You was like that is alsoempowering as well, if you can
(15:33):
really embrace that you knowthat's another self identity
that you could really embark on,and I've seen so many women do
it.
It, you know, uh, due towhatever reasons, why, you know
they lost their hair, um, thetransition of watching these
women, uh, grieve, you know, gothrough all the emotions of
(15:57):
grieving, uh, like you mentioned, about not feeling like self,
you know, because of their hairloss, and then just acceptance
and then empowerment, you know,and that that's a lot, you know.
You know, whenever I read thesestories, whenever I watch these
stories, I am just, you know itis.
(16:22):
It will be hard for me.
You know, uh, I would, if I hadno choice, yes, I would
definitely the goal would be tobe empowered.
I would not allow it to, um,you know, push me in a place of
hiding.
You know I would find ways tofigure out how to accept it and
move on.
But I, I just love how youbrought that to.
(16:44):
You know, the forefront, youknow where it's, not even just
stuck at the hair loss.
You know, sometimes we learn toempower and embrace ourselves
through just not being able torecover the hair loss altogether
.
You know, some people they cando it and some people it's
really hard.
They're still struggling.
You know.
I wish I could find someone whohas embarked on that journey to
(17:07):
talk on the podcast so they canspeak about the experience, you
know, to help women that arecurrently struggling, trying to
get to that place emotionally.
Yeah, you know so.
I love how you brought that up.
Yeah, it takes a lot ofself-reflection from the women
and men that I have talked tothat have in real time
(17:30):
experienced hair loss.
It was always more about thesoul level wellness when it
comes to hair loss specifically,like they have to go through a
grieving time.
They have to go through all ofthese different stages to be
(17:51):
okay with the fact that they'relosing this part of themselves,
and what I've seen is that theyreally empower themselves with
the idea of like.
This is just where I am.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
This is cool.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay, next phase of life.
You know and not being soattached.
We be so attached to how weappear, but it's really about,
like I said that,interconnection.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
Can you share an example of howmindfulness and self-care
(18:26):
rituals have helped someonenavigate hair loss?
Yeah, yeah.
So one woman that comes to mind, uh, and this is one that now
she does speak to hair loss witha very empowered uh perspective
(18:49):
, but, um, I remember when shefirst started to experience it,
she had locks and, um, she wouldcome into the salon and I would
do her lock maintenance and Iremember just telling her like,
okay, I think you know the edgesare doing a thing, we're going
to try this, we're going to trythat.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Were they receding.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
They were receding.
Yeah, they were thinning andreceding and, yeah, I let her
know.
I also was like you know.
I think you should get yourblood checked and let's look
into what you're doingnutritionally out just to see
(19:36):
what was going on.
And it just was something thatwas happening.
Like they, they really couldn'tfigure out what was going on
and so it just continued to thinand I worked with her on the
nutritional aspect, but thenthere was things that started
coming up through her process offinding out answers and coming
(19:58):
to me and just doing the thingsthat I would tell her to do at
home.
And you were approaching it likein a more herbal and holistic
approach.
What were some of thoseremedies that you were
instructing her on?
Yeah, so some of those thingswhere we were doing things like
affirmations or mirror workaffirmations or mirror work.
(20:22):
So I really wanted her to stayconnected and grounded to
herself throughout thattransitional process of, okay,
you might be losing your hair orwe may need to be making some
changes that will require somesacrifice from you, as in diet
changes and things like that.
So in doing that and going tothe doctor, she did start to see
(20:43):
hair growth at that point, andso that was just one of those
aspects where I'm like okay, Ithink this might work.
She was taking it into a deeperlayer instead of just focusing
on the aesthetics of it.
And she did she.
Her hair is full, fullyrestored, like she doesn't have
(21:06):
any issues.
Um, she did have to make somedietary changes, um, but she
also did continue with like okay, how do I empower myself, um,
with these affirmations, how doI even begin to embody them?
She started to dance, shestarted to do things that
brought her joy.
Before, I think she wasstressed, she had a lot going on
(21:28):
.
So it's that complete and totalconcern that we have to have um,
and and just the fullembodiment of what it means to
be whole is, um, is deeplyintegral to how our hair show up
(21:52):
, for sure, so it's not like theroot cause may have been like
lifestyle maybe.
Okay, okay, mm-hmm, okay, okay,yeah, yeah, because you said
there was nothing in that bloodwork.
You know and see how importantlifestyle can affect your hair.
You know, yeah, it really can.
You can be completely healthyfrom the inside, but mindfully.
(22:13):
It's mind, yeah, mind-bodyconnection Absolutely Will cause
you to lose your hair.
Yes, literally.
You got to let that go.
It's literally taken from yourbeauty at this point, absolutely
.
What are some common rootcauses of hair loss that people
(22:35):
might not be aware of?
Definitely stress, definitelystress.
It definitely starves the hairfollicles of nutrients.
Hormonal imbalances,nutritional deficiencies, scalp
inflammation, as we all know um,and that can be for many things
(23:00):
, internal and external.
We have the tight hairstyles,right, uh, glue wigs on the
forehead.
You know, like there's so manythings there um, the heaviness
and weight of our hair.
You know, in certain locks Isee that with locks too.
But yeah, those are the maincauses the lace, front wigs.
(23:23):
The perimeter is just gone, justgone, but the rest of the hair
is just growing and flourishing.
You know um a lot of traction.
(23:44):
It affects like one third ofblack women.
I didn't know the math, sothank you for putting out the
numbers you know, but um, that'swhat I see mostly traction,
alopecia as far as hair loss go,and sometimes stress, you know
(24:06):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Definitely stress.
I think I see more of thestress working in textured hair,
natural hair, like a lot of mywork is working with the natural
hair.
So, yeah, stress is a huge onethat I see and that's where I'm
able to address that Becauseobviously, you know, with health
(24:32):
concerns there's only so muchwe can do.
But, yeah, the stress is themain thing.
So I'm like stressingmindfulness to them, like, okay,
can you please just for fiveminutes, if you could just do a
deep breathing exercise beforeyou go to work?
Like work related stress, yeah,yeah, that's every day for them
(24:55):
that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yes, it is yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Okay, what are some beauty rituals that support both
emotional healing and hairhealth?
There's so many things thatcome to mind.
Girl, give us one, just give usone, one that you've seen had
(25:20):
the most effect on your clients.
One thing is, like I said, ummirror work and affirmations.
Um, what are some affirmationsthat you um?
Do they come up with theseaffirmations on their own, or do
(25:42):
you have like a booklet of, orlike like a notepad of,
affirmations that you give out,depending on what the story is,
that you are hearing behind thechair?
Yeah, um, so a lot of time.
It's intuitive.
I'll send it to them directlyfrom my mind.
Yeah, so it's a little bit ofchanneling that message of, like
(26:04):
, what do they need right now?
Oh, it's that connection, causewhile you're talking about
things, I'm listening and for me, um, with my gifts, I can hear
and know things.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Um okay.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So for me it's a lot of times more intuitive of like
okay, this is what you should do.
Um, and that's why I saidthere's so many things that come
to mind but one of one of thethings that come up the most
common is a mirror work inaffirmations um to for them to,
(26:40):
like you know, actually do workaround how they see themselves,
um, and that is that is magical,just that alone, um.
Because we're told how weshould see ourselves a lot of
the times, or we're goingthrough, like we said,
transitions where our how we seeourselves is changing, um, and
(27:04):
so just being able to affirmourselves um and make ritual out
of it, Like.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
This is what.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I'm going to do every single day, or I have my
certain days of the week, umweek, where I affirm myself,
where I hold myself.
But also there's things like Imake a herbal hair tea where you
can use that, you know, and ithas herbs and ingredients that
help to stimulate the folliclesand do the things on that level.
(27:38):
And then there's also spiritualcomponents of like okay, this
is a clear mind blend, so I wantyou to use this and your
affirmations, and I want you topractice mindfulness, so it's a
holistic thing.
Okay, all right, I love that.
So the herbal tea, are they todrink it or they apply it to
(27:59):
their hair?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Or they can do it or Apply it to your hair.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay, okay, okay.
Yeah, there are blends that Imake for internal consumption.
But yeah, I was talking aboutthe hair tea that you can put on
your hair.
And kind of do it like inbetween your conditioner, deep
conditioner or treatment mask.
It's like a rinse I take likekind of like a rinse, okay, and
(28:25):
with the tea, the way, how youincorporate the ingredients, is
it based on the client'ssituation or whatever they're
experiencing?
So it's not like an all-in-one.
It's catered and customized forthat particular client, for
their specific needs.
Yeah, for the most part, but Ido have a blend that I sell.
(28:45):
That is just a all-in-one, likea basic formula, but yeah, if
someone needed a little bit more, they could definitely get a
custom.
What is the name of the onethat you sell?
Clear Mind.
Clear Mind.
Okay, just got to put that outthere just in case someone want
to purchase.
Yeah, you know what is the info.
(29:06):
We need it.
Yeah, so I'll be posting moreabout it here in the next couple
of weeks.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Okay.
How can aromatherapy oressential oils be used to
support hair and emotionalwell-being?
I'm sorry, repeat that question.
How can aromatherapy oressential oils be used to
support hair and emotionalwell-being?
Yes, love essential oils.
(29:35):
I have them all in the space.
Do you have favorite ones?
I do.
I love lemongrass.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Me too.
I think it's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yes, it's so energizing.
I do use a lot of peppermintand lavender in the slime.
I do use a lot of peppermintand lavender in the salon.
So yeah, for the calming andthe clarity.
I like the peppermint for thetingly feeling.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Mm-hmm Dee, I've been to a place where it's a clean
salon, no chemicals, and Ireally enjoyed the shampoo
session she also did mind workwhile I was there.
Yeah, she did, she did, she dida lot of mind work um, a lot of
(30:30):
um, um.
It's been so long, but you knowhow you align your chakras, you
know she did this chakra uhwork.
Is it reiki?
Yes, it was, and I and I alsogot my hair done, so it was just
like I love that.
It was amazing, yeah and uh.
What I really loved was likeher intentionally just it's so
(30:52):
simple but just taking a littlebit of peppermint oil, rubbing
it in her hands and just youknow, basically just moving it
around my face so I can inhaleit and then begin to relax so
she could do the work.
Yes and um, I do do that duringmy uh scalp facials.
So, yes, they get to experiencethat aromatherapy, like, okay,
(31:14):
we're going to move into thisnext section and people love
that.
They be like, oh, it's an entireexperience.
You know, and I do believereceiving that level of
intentional care not only justfrom your hair but also from
your mind, like you've beentalking about mindfulness,
(31:36):
spiritual connection to yourselffrom within that can relieve so
much cortisol.
You know you could really youknow you could really learn a
lot from these sessions and, youknow, try to adapt these to
your day-to-day life.
But I think that's like areally great way of self-care to
(31:58):
make sure if you areexperiencing hair loss due to
stress that is like one of thebest things that you like.
Invest in the stylist that'soffering it you know invest in a
stylist that's offering thosetypes of you know healings.
You know, I think that would beso great, especially if it's
(32:20):
nothing else.
It's like you just stressed,you know, that's literally it,
and I believe some people can'thold on to their hair and still
be stressed.
You know, I think it definitelydepends on the biology of
whatever is.
You know, whatever it is thattakes up to make your, make up
your integumentary system.
You know but um yeah, I thinkthat would be so great for
(32:44):
someone who is just, it's just,stress, nothing in your blood,
nothing in your health, you know.
I think that would be like agreat recommendation.
Well, you know, I um have abackground in aesthetics as well
and one of the things that welearn as an esthetician is that
(33:05):
90% of the things that we see onthe skin are results of
inflammation and inflammationone of the culprits.
The response of inflammationfirst of all is stress.
So stress not only on anexternal level, but stress
(33:26):
internal.
That's why we have to go intothe nutrition, that's why we
have to go into the diet,because what are you even eating
that stress you out and raiseyour cortisol?
Yeah, so for me, that's why itgoes a little deeper, because
the understanding of whatinflammation even is and we can
(33:49):
think like, oh, that's just ahealth issue and now it's
separate.
No, bring it right back,because how did we get to that
health issue?
Right, right, and we have toget to diet.
We got to get to nutrition,then we got to get into okay,
well, you in the food desert, welooking at the political things
of it.
Right, right, right, whatchanges do you need to make?
(34:10):
These things have always been athing for us.
Like you hear a matter of CJWalker and how she came to make
her product.
She was addressing scalp issues.
Right, we still have scalpissues.
We still have scalp issues,hair loss she was addressing
that.
So, these things have alwaysbeen a thing from different
angles.
So yeah, just being mindful aspractitioners that you know it's
(34:38):
just deeper.
It sure is, yep, with you youdo offer locks as a service at
your salon, correct?
Yes, do you ever experiencewhere you have a client where at
the base is thinning and theyare experiencing hair loss?
Yep, and you know, of course,down the shaft of that lock is
(35:04):
heavy In your practice?
Have you noticed that it'sbecause the lock is heavy and
it's thinning the hair at thebase, or is it that the hair is
just not growing in as dense asit was once before, or both?
Uh, yeah, mostly that thatthere's been a shift in the hair
growth.
Um, I don't.
(35:27):
I mean, if their hair is likereally long, I'll start to see
that traction alopecia, butotherwise I honestly see more of
where the hair growth has justshifted throughout the process.
That could be for a couplereasons.
I know a lot of times withBlack men and their locks I see
(35:51):
a lot of.
I forget the name is.
Is it DHT?
No, there's a condition thatI've learned about where the
psychological um disorder thatis going on is that they are
(36:13):
twisting their hair back andforth because of anxiety.
Right, yeah, for soothing, forsoothing.
That's actually what I see themost in Black men with locks is
there's anxiety and I'm justtwisting, twisting, twisting.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And they're stressing those follicles out.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yes, and it's breaking off you know it's just,
it's just one hand break off.
Um, I had one client who hadhis whole side, was pretty much
gone, and as I'm like looking,I'm like okay, and he brought in
a bag of locks like can you?
Oh my gosh oh so you do do uh,repairing too okay yes, yes, and
(36:56):
uh, he sat on there.
We both just looked at eachother.
I said, so what is this, right,what you've been doing, what
you've been doing, what's goingon, yeah, so I, um, I started to
ask some questions because I'mlike, okay, so what you eating,
what you did?
Okay, cool, how you feeling allright.
And as we began to talk, andhe's talking about just where he
(37:18):
is in life and you know,considering getting married and
the stress of that, and you know, I'm in a transition, I'm a new
father I'm like, ok, I'm makingends meet, like all these
things.
Ok, stress, ok, how do you dealwith that stress?
Like you know, I don't, I'm notdoing the things that I
normally would do.
Do you deal with that stress?
(37:39):
Like you know, I don't, I'm notdoing the things that I
normally would do.
So, as we're talking, I justnoticed that he has what I would
consider like anxiety.
You know, um, and I have beentrained through psychotherapy to
understand mental health,through hair, mm-hmm, and so I
(37:59):
was able to identify that and Iwas like, you know, do you
experience anxiety at any point?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
It's like, yeah, bad, my anxiety bad, you know, and
I'm like I'm not laughing at hisstruggle.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I'm just laughing at the delivery because it's just,
I feel like that's how we talk.
That's how we talk.
It's bad, it's bad.
Oh my gosh.
I'm all it's bad man.
I said oh.
I said okay.
So what do we do?
What you been doing?
You been doing your music.
I know you into music, I ain'tdoing that, I doing that.
(38:40):
I said okay.
I said so you sleep on thisside.
He told me no, I'll just beplaying with my hair.
Yeah, I was like okay.
So.
I was like okay, so this, thisis that, but yeah yeah it's.
It's so many layers, we gottaknow what questions to ask.
You do you absolutely do it'suh, it's always uh backtracking?
You have to backtrack in orderto find the root cause, in order
to even fix the problem andprovide a solution.
You know, and um thatconsultation, you can be there
(39:04):
for a good 30 minutes trying tofigure out what is the problem,
because you can't help them ifyou can't backtrack.
You know, if they don't recall,remember what they do, and
sometimes you do this somindlessly when you're twirling
in your hair.
That's a mindless thing, youknow.
Even I do it at the back of myneck.
It's so soothing, you knowblack women too, yeah yeah, it's
very soothing.
(39:24):
I blame my cousin, though,because when I was little like
she would she was my oldercousin, she was more like a big
sister, and she would play in myhair and she always would take
the the neck area and like, giveme little strokes, and it's so
soothing.
So now I do it to myself andit's, and it's.
It really is a thing.
(39:45):
Like you know, when we uh lookat the hair from a scientific
perspective like this literallyis our extension of our nervous
system, right, so it literallygoes up there, right.
It makes so much sense.
You know.
I still blame her, though,because I'm like if she'd never
(40:06):
done it, I would have never been, you know, so inclined right
and it feels great.
And then I have to be like stop,you know, because I mean it's,
it's, it's just a thing, youknow, I don't, I don't be like
you know.
Okay, stop doing that, becauseI understand it's a soothing
thing.
But if you could find a littlespot.
(40:28):
Yeah, even with my clients.
They'll be sitting in the chairand we're consulting, and I'll
see them grab like that sideburnarea, yeah, and they're just
twirl, and I'd be like stop.
They'd be like okay, okay, Iquit, I quit, I quit.
I just had to lay it out, likeyou know.
I understand this, but this isthe result.
So I just want you to be awareand you make your choice.
(40:50):
That's exactly.
Yeah, that's it, that's all youcan do, because when they leave
, yeah, there's only so much wecan do, you know yeah, you just
hope that I did suggest you gosee a therapist.
Yeah, like, yeah, you know, justto get back grounded.
You know something, some stuffis so temporary, especially like
(41:12):
getting married.
You know one day you're gonnabe married, so that stress will
be gone.
Yeah, you know, stepping into,stepping into fatherhood I think
that's going to be a foreverstressor.
You got to learn how to manageyour stress.
Absolutely yeah, transition youknow it is what it is.
You know, oh, yeah, yep, goahead and accept this where you
(41:36):
at For real.
Yeah, go ahead and accept thiswhere you at For real.
Yeah.
What's the importance ofhydration and detoxification in
maintaining healthy hair?
Definitely, water is life.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (41:51):
about oils, because there is so much controversy on
the internet amongst the blackhair community where it's like
don't use pomades, don't useoils.
This is suffocating your scalp.
This is suffocating your hair.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
It's so much.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
It's right.
Tell me what you think aboutthat.
You know, I feel like Ishouldn't throw the baby out
with the baby bathwater.
I think be out with the baby,uh, bath water.
I think I think that there'sreason.
We have always used butters,oils, and I think that it's
(42:28):
still relevant.
I think, yeah, like what theheck?
You know we got that's.
That's part of our hair ritual.
Another thing is the science ofhow this works.
Okay, you have the hydrationand now, yes, you have to seal
in that moisture.
Or you'll get you know waterloss.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You don't want that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Especially when we're in conditions where it's warmer
or even extreme cold.
Yeah, environmental is veryimportant to consider, for sure.
Yeah, I think it has a lot todo with that.
If you're in a place where it'ssuper warm, okay, maybe you
just use the oil, not a pomadeyou needs in the moment.
I know there's a lot of curlyhair professionals who are
(43:23):
completely against it.
They're mostly curly hairprofessionals, right, and in
some cases I can understand whythey feel this way.
However, for us kinky, coilygirls, uh, where our hair is so
vulnerable and it lacks so muchmoisture because it's so kinky
(43:48):
and coily, it's reallychallenging to moisturize
because these curls are runningin so many different directions,
unlike if it's a looser pattern, you can just apply it, move,
move on.
Hair stays moisturized.
Literally.
Different folks yeah,absolutely.
And so when they push thenarrative, sometimes it's like I
(44:10):
don't disagree, but I don'tagree either.
It just depends on what theclient needs.
Most of Black women, we'relooking for length and density
retention.
We're not really focused oncurly hair.
That's usually not the numberone priority for Black women.
(44:30):
So you cannot push thatnarrative, depending on the goal
for the client, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Now, if you want to embrace your curls, I would say
no, because pomades are heavy,it's gonna be heavy, it's heavy.
It can also stretch the curlpattern because it is so heavy.
Um, it can suffocate it alittle too, depending on you
know, uh, where you at and whatyou want, what's your desire you
, you know.
So there literally is differentstrokes for different folks,
(45:02):
depending on what your goal isLike.
I would not recommend you tonot use oil.
And you have locks, you know,like crazy work, I wouldn't do
that.
I would not do that.
Go ahead and lock that in.
Yes, for sure yeah, but I willsay you know making sure it's
(45:24):
the right ingredients.
You know absolutely.
Thank you for touching on thattoo.
Come on keep going yeah yeah, so, like you know, our head is is
is very, very, um precious, andso we don't want to.
You know our follicles, they goright into the bloodstream, you
know so forth, so we want tomake sure that it's medicine
(45:45):
going in we don't want to makesure, we want to make sure that
it's not toxic to our system,our endocrine disruptors and
things like that.
We don't want that.
So, yeah, we want to make surethat it is medicine that's going
in or something that actuallycan be used by the body.
Absolutely Thank you for that.
(46:06):
Yeah, for someone strugglingwith hair loss, where do you
recommend they start theirhealing journey?
Um, definitely start with graceoh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Start with acceptance , start with um courage.
Be gentle with yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Look at what's happening internally and
externally.
Look at where you are in life.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Look around and really take into account what
that means for you and whycertain things are showing up.
Stress diet.
Most importantly, small changesdone consistently create big
(47:05):
transformations.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
So yeah, starting with small things shifting the
diet, shifting stress levels,doing things that honor you
faithfuls, doing things thathonor you, and that may even be
making that appointment to gosee the dermatologist or go see
the doctor to address, maybe,finally, an issue that you have
(47:30):
been carrying Right.
So, yeah, I would say, startwith grace Absolutely, because
we can be so hard on ourselvesand you know I know you
mentioned shame earlier Like youstart to feel shame and you
also, you know, like kind ofself-blaming, like what did I do
?
You know, what did I do, what Ididn't do, like, you know,
(47:54):
going through that mind space, Imust have did something wrong,
right.
So that's why, when youmentioned grace, I'm like, yes,
grace is very important wheneveryou are experiencing, you know,
an impact such as hair loss.
Yeah, you got to be patientwith yourself and be nice to
yourself, like you mentioned, begentle, you know all those
(48:15):
things that you mentioned, andeven for my girls who are trying
to accept wearing their naturalcurly hair, because that's a
whole transformation withinitself.
You know, I always oh hi Closethe door please.
My children.
(48:36):
I love it.
We keeping that in.
Okay, it don't supposed to beperfect, I love that.
I wish he would have saidsomething.
I know one month okay, I don'twant to mess up the recording.
It's okay, we're almost doneanyway.
(48:58):
Okay, can you hear them?
Yeah, it's okay.
This is my real life.
I'm a mommy.
Yeah, we're gonna leave that.
I love it.
We're gonna leave it.
I'm not even gonna going totell Bryce to cut it.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
It's like keep it rolling, yeah, keep it rolling.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
This is a raw footage that y'all are receiving right
now.
This is real.
This is who I am.
Yeah, we're not cutting it atall.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
What's one key piece of advice you would give to
someone who feels discouragedabout their hair?
Back to grace, but alsoapproaching the journey with
patience and love and justknowing that, like you are a
(50:03):
whole person, like how you areshowing up, isn't even
scratching the surface of allthat you are, so taking that
power back to say whatever it is, you know.
However, I look today is okay,like right, because this is me,
real life.
Hey, right, this is really ajourney.
(50:26):
So, um, yeah, just patience andlove on yourself, right?
Do you ever have to share hairstories to let them know you're
not alone?
You know, have you ever had toshare a hair story to make them
feel relatable?
So, it can help, you know, withalso moving forward in this new
(50:46):
journey.
Yeah, I share my own stories.
So you suffer from hair loss,not hair loss.
I did suffer a bit of not likecomplete hair loss.
I did suffer a bit of not likecomplete hair loss.
I have suffered from, likepostpartum hair loss.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, oh, yeah, that I talkabout all the time.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Can you?
Speaker 1 (51:11):
share that story Like walk us through your story.
You know of how you dealt withthat emotionally and even though
it's temporary, it's still athing.
It's still a part of what youexperienced, right?
It doesn't?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
feel good in the moment.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
No, it can be shocking.
It can be shocking especiallythat's one thing that people
don't really tell you.
When you have it, they don'ttell you your hair just fall out
and you're like why is my hairfalling out?
Wait, y'all didn't tell me thatHold on.
Right.
So that was.
That was kind of shocking, um,but once I got over the shock of
(51:51):
, oh my God, is this happening?
Cause I think it for me, ittook a minute to really see that
that's what it is Right,because I was like, oh I don't
know, maybe my hairstyle justnot popping the way I want it to
.
Yeah, where did you notice thehair loss first?
Was it around your perimeter?
Yeah, that's where mine was too.
(52:11):
It started around my perimeter.
And you know this area of thetemple area, the edge right
there, that is when you look attraditional Chinese medicine or
even African traditionalmedicine.
They can break down the headinto quadrants where they are
(52:33):
representative of certain partsof the body, and so when you get
into this area where a lot ofpostpartum loss happens, that is
actually it's telling youspecifically a hormonal thing.
Oh okay, yeah.
So for me it was like oh okay,I see, I know, and now I'm going
(52:54):
to address it.
So I actually started to dohormonal therapy with herbs.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
So, yeah, I started to incorporate more like maca
fruit my diet into mysupplements.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
I started to use horsetail.
Oh yeah, good one, yeah, sure.
So doing things like thatashwagandha for the mood and for
the hormones as well, yeah, butyeah, I started to do that and
also I just had to really acceptthat that was a part of the
(53:35):
journey that I was currently on.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Yeah, I did just give life.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
And so.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
I'm not going to focus on this loss as a loss,
but rather a um, a omen that Ihave passed through this rite of
passage.
Right Like this is kind of whathappened and it made me, like I
said, think about how I'mcaring for myself, and so it was
(54:01):
always.
It turned into a deeper thingbecause how am I caring for
myself now that I've given life?
Let me put back my nutrients,Let me put back my stuff and
really something.
It's just a part of yourjourney.
Yeah, you know, I try to advisethem to keep taking hair
(54:26):
vitamins, but even hair vitaminsstill will A minute.
It takes a minute and sometimesit just don't work, you know,
and I just always have to remindthem that it will pass.
It will pass For me.
I cut my hair.
I was just not dealing with allof the breakage.
(54:47):
I couldn't.
It was like an eyesore.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I did too, yeah, it was like an eyesore.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
The hair is extremely combative.
It don't want to behave.
You can't style it.
It don't lay to behave.
You can't style it.
Don't lay down right.
It's too weak and vulnerable toreceive hairstyles with tension
, so you really just need toleave it alone.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
You know, yep.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Literally.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, release the control.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
That's another thing.
Right, yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it just was happening.
Yeah, except it's like I didcut the sides of my hair off,
just was happening.
Like I did cut the sides of myhair off and I was like you know
what?
We just going to rock thisMohawk, right, and I'm going to
do all the things.
And still, when I go out,people like what I love your
hair and so it actuallyempowered me.
I turned you know you can turnit into this thing where
(55:36):
actually I'm going to embrace it.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
I got different earrings now I'm about to adore
myself Like.
This is just what it is.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
It's such an experiment once you empower it.
You know, if you just let it be, you'd be surprised once you
let go of that control, like youmentioned.
You'd be surprised how creativeyour brain can get when you
just let it go, because I neverthought in a million years that
(56:00):
I would ever rock a pixie.
By choice I would never rock apixie, and I know it was super
cute.
When she got done, I loved it.
You know it was hard.
It was just trying to adjust tothe new look, you know, yeah,
but um, and I loved it even moreas it grew out, because I had
the longer bangs and I kept theback and the sides tapered and I
(56:22):
had, like a Bieber, a JustinBieber look going on.
It was just more of a femininetouch though, you know, and I
received.
Right, I received so manycompliments and I would wear
these cute little fedora hatsand go buy jewelry.
You know, it was just like Iwas just adding to that
aesthetic and I really embracedit.
(56:42):
You know it was hard but Imanaged to get through it, you
know and that's it.
It's a, it's a journey.
So you go through the processof okay, how do I find my power
in this?
And I'm just gonna rock it, I'mgonna do this, I'm gonna do
that, you know.
But yeah, it's still a journey.
You still may have thosemoments of sadness, still may
(57:04):
experience that grief, but it isa journey that you will get
over and get through and thehair will grow back because it's
postpartum.
It's temporary, so it will growback.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yes, just find something to do in between you
know Very good.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, how can people connect with you and learn more
about your work?
So, right now, you can followme on Instagram at the Root and
Honey, and, yeah, that's kind ofwhere I'm at right now.
You can book a session, uh, oryou can join one of my upcoming
(57:47):
workshops.
I actually am doing a workshopwith a lovely black woman
therapist, uh, and partner withanother co-stylist to do a
series called Black Women andMental Health, where we'll be
discussing Black women, mentalhealth and hair.
(58:09):
So, yeah, I'm just going tokeep it rolling.
So, yeah, follow me onInstagram.
Website information TikTok.
So I don't have a website rightnow, but working on that.
Like I said, I do have theproducts and things.
They've been sold locally.
I'm actually expanding toonline this spring.
(58:35):
So it's a lot of work, huh Lotsof work, yeah, I've been there.
That's why I stopped.
I was like I'm good, I'm tired.
Yeah, you know what, for me,it's about uh, balance with
everything that I'm doing, so Idon't put too much on myself.
So I'm like you know, it'ssmall batch, handcrafted.
I love that.
It would.
I can give that's right andthat's the only way quality
(58:58):
results are produced.
Let's just be honest and it's alot for us to balance.
We wear so many hats behindthat chair, you know so.
I love the fact that yourbalance is so intentional and
you are also very aware of youneeding that balance, and it's
not about just pushing somethingout.
(59:19):
You want it to be right.
You know so that the customeror whoever is going to invest in
you, they're receiving it attop tier you know, yeah, that's
important to me.
Yeah, I love that, yes, well,thank you so much for carving
time out of your beautifulSunday because I see the sun
coming in through the window.
(59:40):
So I know it's a beautifulSunday for y'all.
You know it's sunny, but it'ssnowy out here in Detroit.
Oh, really, we in the windstorm.
Yes, oh, it's cold today, butit's not snow.
I mean, it's Texas.
Yeah, yeah, I wish I couldenjoy that heat.
No, you don't.
(01:00:02):
You say no, no, you do not.
It is life-threatening.
Oh, let me tell you, it islife-threatening.
I'm not.
During the summer, we all, webarely make it but listen,
that's all detroit.
Oh, my god, yeah, I'd be likedang.
Yeah, well, hopefully some ofthat sun melted a little bit,
(01:00:22):
you know.
Yeah, so y'all can get out andenjoy some of that beautiful,
refreshing air.
It's nothing like it, you know,nothing like it.
I appreciate it.
You're welcome, thank you.
Thank you.
What an enlighteningconversation.
A huge thank you to Empress forsharing her wisdom on the power
(01:00:43):
of holistic beauty and thedeeper connections we have with
our hair.
Her insights on mindfulself-care, herbal remedies and
creating intentional beautyspaces truly show how hair is
more than just an aesthetic it'sa reflection of our inner and
outer well-being.
If you love this episode, besure to check out Empress' work
through Root Honey, where shecontinues to educate and inspire
(01:01:06):
through beauty and wellness.
And, of course, don't forget tosubscribe, rate and share hair.
What I'm saying with fellowbeauty lovers Until next time,
take care of yourself and yourhair with intention.
See you soon.
You, you, you.
Welcome back to another episode of Hair what I'm
Saying.
Today we're diving into thetransformative power of beauty
as a ritual for well-being, witha very special guest.
Joining us is Empress, amulti-licensed beauty ritualist.
Textured hair specialist,herbalist and esthetician and
educator.
Hair specialist, herbalist andesthetician and educator.
Through her brand, root Honey,she bridges the worlds of beauty
(00:32):
and holistic wellness,exploring a sacred connection
between self-care and communitycare.
Empress brings a uniqueperspective to the conversation,
blending the art and science oftextured hair care with
intentional beauty rituals thatnurture both hair and soul.
In this episode, we'll discussthe emotional impact of hair
loss, holistic approaches tohair restoration and how we can
create more mindful, balancedspaces in the beauty industry.
(00:53):
So, whether you're a beautyprofessional, a client on a hair
journey or just someone lookingfor a deeper connection to your
beauty rituals, this episode isfor you.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart.
Today we have Empress of RootHoney, all the way from Detroit,
michigan, joining us.
Welcome to the show, empress.
How are you?
(01:14):
I'm well.
How are you Doing?
Fantastic.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
I really appreciate you wantingto share your holistic
perspective on how to restorehair loss, so thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, is this your firstpodcast?
No, this is not my first onethis is my second one, though.
(01:36):
Okay, good, that's goodinformation.
I just like to know, you know,and I don't even know why I like
to know.
I just like to know to know,you know, and I don't even know
why I like to know.
I just like to know, yeah, yeah, see, how the flow gonna be.
Yeah, oh, yeah, I guess.
So the flow.
And I just remember, likerecording my first podcast, how
nervous I was.
So, you know, I just want toknow, like trying to feel your
(02:02):
energy on the other side of thecamera.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Can you share a little bit about yourself and
what led you to become aholistic wellness advocate and
beauty ritualist?
Yes, so I'm Empress, as shesaid, founder of Root Honey.
My journey through holisticbeauty has been a deeply
personal thing and a deeplyspiritual thing, so it was kind
(02:31):
of only natural that this is theexpression of it.
Now, I grew up in some naturalhair salons in Detroit and my,
my grandmother, mygreat-grandmother, that I later
found out was actually acosmetologist and herbalist.
(02:51):
Oh wow.
But the thing was is that shepassed right before she actually
got her physical license.
And, yeah, I guess I just kindof come through all of that the
elders in my community that havebeen pioneers in the industry
(03:13):
for a very long time.
I spent some time working atTextures by Nefertiti, which is
a prominent salon here inDetroit.
It's not like I've heard ofthat, I'm sure you have.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, I think I have.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, so being poured into by elders and I literally
started working there when I was14 and stayed there until
recently and, yeah, just beingpoured into by the women getting
the feel of being a part of thesalon culture during the
(03:50):
conversations.
Um, like I said, I was justaround um older concepts, um
holistic principles, and so itjust naturally kind of came like
this is just what we do, likewe are always honoring the
holistic aspects of us, of eachother.
(04:11):
Okay, I love that.
Yeah, what inspired yourpassion for bridging the
physical, emotional, mental andspiritual aspects of beauty?
Beauty, um, well, it's hard,like I said, to separate, in my
(04:32):
opinion, those things becausefor us, as black folk, hair
black, never black.
You know, hair has never justbeen just hair, right?
Um, especially when you look atafrican culture, when you look
at our culture, we look atindigenous traditions, beauty is
so tied to our identity, it'sso tied to the way that we
(04:56):
resist in this world, is tied toour healing, um, and even just
like our rejuvenation, like forour souls, for our spirits, and
there's many ways that we honorthose things within our culture
and hair just happens to be oneof those, like you know you see,
the.
(05:17):
You know the memories of likebeing on the porch getting your
hair braided.
You know like going to yourgrandma's house to have some tea
.
You know like theseconversations, these house to
have some tea.
You know like theseconversations, these moments
where we get to nurture eachother.
It's hard to separate that, andso my work is just like
bridging that gap and even justspeaking to that.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, so it sounds like you grew up in the healthy
environment of nurturing andtaking care of your hair, no
matter the texture.
Yeah, because unfortunately, inour race we can face some
texturism as well, and it's notalways like that, you know, for
(06:00):
you know some of us, you knowI'm I feel like I'm fortunate to
have had the experience thatyou have had.
But I've had, you know, guestson the show who have had the
exact opposite encounter, someof this in my chair, where, you
(06:27):
know, psychologically, you know,some of us have not been able
to have that nurturing and thatupbringing of loving their hair,
no matter what the texture is.
I don't know if you ever hadthat.
Have you ever had that whereyou had to coach a client
through learning to accept whatnaturally caused out of their
scalp and, um, how was that?
If you ever had to do that, yes, um, I have to do it quite a
(06:51):
bit right.
Yeah, it's really uncommon for,um, I feel like today is more
practice for us too, as blackwomen, if we have daughters and
if we're in the industry ascosmetologists.
We are now trying to reallyhelp reverse that sock, that
(07:12):
unhealthy emotional connectionthat most black women have with
their naturally curly hair.
You know, yeah, it's only a fewof us out here that actually
got the experience like that youjust described.
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, it's a real thing.
I often come in contact withpeople who are coming in and
(07:38):
they're doing this thing, wherethey're trying a new thing.
What's the new thing?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Like the natural hair , like maybe they're
transitioning.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, gotcha, yeah, like that that's a new thing.
What's the new thing?
Like the natural hair, likemaybe they're transitioning,
okay, gotcha, yeah, like that'sthe new thing.
Like, oh, I'm going to actuallyjust show up the way I am, like
that's the new thing.
And so it does turn into thiswhole therapeutic thing where
we're talking about thepsychology, we're talking about
(08:03):
the spiritual aspect, we'retalking about your lifestyle.
We're talking about thespiritual aspect.
We're talking about yourlifestyle, you know, especially
working holistically, like we'retalking about what you're
eating, what you're thinkingabout, what you're reading.
You know, absolutely yeah.
It's often, though and that'swhy hair is this portal and
gateway to actually do all ofthese things Like, yeah, are
(08:29):
they receiving the informationor have you ever had anyone to?
Just you just know it's deeperthan what you can, you know,
assist with.
A lot of the times they're veryreceptive.
Good, I don't have too manypeople that are not Um, a lot of
the times they're veryreceptive.
Good, I don't have too manypeople that are not Um, and yeah
(08:51):
, they're.
They're a lot of time comingbecause of a journey that
they've been on already.
So, um, you know, as they getto us, we're kind of one of
those stops on that journey.
So like they already understandsome things about themselves
that have made them want to trythis and want to embrace their
(09:15):
natural self, so they're kind ofalready privy to that.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, we are on the front line, right.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, literally on the front line right.
Yeah yeah, literally, why do?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
you think hair is so deeply connected to
self-identity, especially intextured hair communities.
I mean, our hair is legacy.
So that's how I look at it isour hair holds these stories,
our practices hold these stories, and so hair is just the
(09:52):
physical appearance of thesethings.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It is for sure.
I love how you use that as ananalogy.
It's like the internalism, yeah, and the hair is like the
external of.
You know these stories, youknow and even the consciousness.
Absolutely, you care to likeelaborate more on that?
I like the direction that thisis going in.
(10:18):
Yeah, um, so, as we know, like,how we present ourselves has a
lot to do with where we arepsychologically, where we are
spiritually, even like you see,the Rastafari people with the
locks and they just let it go.
And it's just, I'm free, I'm not, I'm not going to be bound by
(10:40):
aesthetics, but also like it's adope aesthetic.
So right, it is it.
It definitely is, yeah, forsure.
Then you got the um people downin florida who got the wicks
going but it's a.
Thing yeah, it's a thing.
Um, they're honoring theirhaitian ancestry thing.
(11:02):
So we've always done this, andthen you take it over to the
continent.
Before we even got here, hairhas always been like oh okay,
you're a part of this clan ofpeople.
Oh, you're royalty.
Oh, you do this, like.
So it always has been this bigthing for our identity.
It's never been just hair,that's right.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Girl I had to.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I was like let me bring it out of her Girl
elaborate on it.
Educate please, because I knewwhat you were talking about, but
it's only because I'm in theindustry and you know we studied
the history, you know but, fora listener?
they may not.
So that's why I was like comeon, elaborate on that, drop the
(11:45):
gems and let them know this isso historical, for real.
It's so many layers and that'swhy you can't just deal with
just the hair as in just ahairstylist, or go to people
that even just view it as that,because you will miss so much
where there's opportunity for somuch growth.
Yeah for sure, love that.
(12:07):
Thank you, no problem, that wasa great answer, thank you.
What are some of the mostcommon emotional struggles
people face when dealing withhair loss?
When?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
dealing with hair loss.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Definitely it's a lot of shame, a lot of grief and
sometimes even a sense ofworthlessness and visibility,
right and just internal struggle.
You know, it's, it's, it's athing because it is so tied to
(12:53):
our identity, so when we areexperiencing hair loss, it can
feel like I don't know who I amwithout this hair, without me
being able to express it.
So, yeah, it's, it's.
It can be seen as a loss ofpower, I know, and so my work is
(13:15):
to Help with that transition.
Oh, sidebar, I'm also a doula.
Oh, my gosh girl, you're justlike this healer.
Yeah, like you.
You you want to heal and help.
Yeah, I love that.
Yes, so yeah, thank you but,yeah, helping with transitions
(13:41):
is something that I um I, sothis is just one of them.
When people experience hairloss, it is a deeply emotional
thing, but it also can be anempowering thing, and that's
where the transmutation comes in.
And that's what I like to focuson is how are we going to use
(14:02):
this as an opportunity toelevate ourselves, to honor
where it is you are, becausewhatever has happened has led
you here, and so it's reallyacceptance.
At that point, let's take it astep further and just honor
where it is you are currently.
(14:22):
Currently, if it can be fixed,it can be fixed.
If it cannot be fixed, wellthen let's go ahead and work on
our acceptance piece.
And so, again, it just goesstraight back into the spiritual
aspects, in the soul level, ofhow we feel beautiful, because I
think, Because I thinkbeautiful, and feeling that way
(14:46):
is really just feeling inalignment, feeling connected.
So when we feel disconnected,we feel like, oh, I'm not
identifying the way I want to, Ican't express myself the way
that I want to, I feel somehowdisconnected from my purpose.
It can be so many things and,like I said, it's just about
(15:09):
coming back to center andknowing where the connection
actually is?
And yeah, just honor andexperience.
I love how you mentioned evenif there is no solution to you
know basically revive the hairfollicles so that the hair can
continue to grow.
You was like that is alsoempowering as well, if you can
(15:33):
really embrace that you knowthat's another self identity
that you could really embark on,and I've seen so many women do
it.
It, you know, uh, due towhatever reasons, why, you know
they lost their hair, um, thetransition of watching these
women, uh, grieve, you know, gothrough all the emotions of
(15:57):
grieving, uh, like you mentioned, about not feeling like self,
you know, because of their hairloss, and then just acceptance
and then empowerment, you know,and that that's a lot, you know.
You know, whenever I read thesestories, whenever I watch these
stories, I am just, you know itis.
(16:22):
It will be hard for me.
You know, uh, I would, if I hadno choice, yes, I would
definitely the goal would be tobe empowered.
I would not allow it to, um,you know, push me in a place of
hiding.
You know I would find ways tofigure out how to accept it and
move on.
But I, I just love how youbrought that to.
(16:44):
You know, the forefront, youknow where it's, not even just
stuck at the hair loss.
You know, sometimes we learn toempower and embrace ourselves
through just not being able torecover the hair loss altogether
.
You know, some people they cando it and some people it's
really hard.
They're still struggling.
You know.
I wish I could find someone whohas embarked on that journey to
(17:07):
talk on the podcast so they canspeak about the experience, you
know, to help women that arecurrently struggling, trying to
get to that place emotionally.
Yeah, you know so.
I love how you brought that up.
Yeah, it takes a lot ofself-reflection from the women
and men that I have talked tothat have in real time
(17:30):
experienced hair loss.
It was always more about thesoul level wellness when it
comes to hair loss specifically,like they have to go through a
grieving time.
They have to go through all ofthese different stages to be
(17:51):
okay with the fact that they'relosing this part of themselves,
and what I've seen is that theyreally empower themselves with
the idea of like.
This is just where I am.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
This is cool.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay, next phase of life.
You know and not being soattached.
We be so attached to how weappear, but it's really about,
like I said that,interconnection.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
Can you share an example of howmindfulness and self-care
(18:26):
rituals have helped someonenavigate hair loss?
Yeah, yeah.
So one woman that comes to mind, uh, and this is one that now
she does speak to hair loss witha very empowered uh perspective
(18:49):
, but, um, I remember when shefirst started to experience it,
she had locks and, um, she wouldcome into the salon and I would
do her lock maintenance and Iremember just telling her like,
okay, I think you know the edgesare doing a thing, we're going
to try this, we're going to trythat.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Were they receding.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
They were receding.
Yeah, they were thinning andreceding and, yeah, I let her
know.
I also was like you know.
I think you should get yourblood checked and let's look
into what you're doingnutritionally out just to see
(19:36):
what was going on.
And it just was something thatwas happening.
Like they, they really couldn'tfigure out what was going on
and so it just continued to thinand I worked with her on the
nutritional aspect, but thenthere was things that started
coming up through her process offinding out answers and coming
(19:58):
to me and just doing the thingsthat I would tell her to do at
home.
And you were approaching it likein a more herbal and holistic
approach.
What were some of thoseremedies that you were
instructing her on?
Yeah, so some of those thingswhere we were doing things like
affirmations or mirror workaffirmations or mirror work.
(20:22):
So I really wanted her to stayconnected and grounded to
herself throughout thattransitional process of, okay,
you might be losing your hair orwe may need to be making some
changes that will require somesacrifice from you, as in diet
changes and things like that.
So in doing that and going tothe doctor, she did start to see
(20:43):
hair growth at that point, andso that was just one of those
aspects where I'm like okay, Ithink this might work.
She was taking it into a deeperlayer instead of just focusing
on the aesthetics of it.
And she did she.
Her hair is full, fullyrestored, like she doesn't have
(21:06):
any issues.
Um, she did have to make somedietary changes, um, but she
also did continue with like okay, how do I empower myself, um,
with these affirmations, how doI even begin to embody them?
She started to dance, shestarted to do things that
brought her joy.
Before, I think she wasstressed, she had a lot going on
(21:28):
.
So it's that complete and totalconcern that we have to have um,
and and just the fullembodiment of what it means to
be whole is, um, is deeplyintegral to how our hair show up
(21:52):
, for sure, so it's not like theroot cause may have been like
lifestyle maybe.
Okay, okay, mm-hmm, okay, okay,yeah, yeah, because you said
there was nothing in that bloodwork.
You know and see how importantlifestyle can affect your hair.
You know, yeah, it really can.
You can be completely healthyfrom the inside, but mindfully.
(22:13):
It's mind, yeah, mind-bodyconnection Absolutely Will cause
you to lose your hair.
Yes, literally.
You got to let that go.
It's literally taken from yourbeauty at this point, absolutely
.
What are some common rootcauses of hair loss that people
(22:35):
might not be aware of?
Definitely stress, definitelystress.
It definitely starves the hairfollicles of nutrients.
Hormonal imbalances,nutritional deficiencies, scalp
inflammation, as we all know um,and that can be for many things
(23:00):
, internal and external.
We have the tight hairstyles,right, uh, glue wigs on the
forehead.
You know, like there's so manythings there um, the heaviness
and weight of our hair.
You know, in certain locks Isee that with locks too.
But yeah, those are the maincauses the lace, front wigs.
(23:23):
The perimeter is just gone, justgone, but the rest of the hair
is just growing and flourishing.
You know um a lot of traction.
(23:44):
It affects like one third ofblack women.
I didn't know the math, sothank you for putting out the
numbers you know, but um, that'swhat I see mostly traction,
alopecia as far as hair loss go,and sometimes stress, you know
(24:06):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Definitely stress.
I think I see more of thestress working in textured hair,
natural hair, like a lot of mywork is working with the natural
hair.
So, yeah, stress is a huge onethat I see and that's where I'm
able to address that Becauseobviously, you know, with health
(24:32):
concerns there's only so muchwe can do.
But, yeah, the stress is themain thing.
So I'm like stressingmindfulness to them, like, okay,
can you please just for fiveminutes, if you could just do a
deep breathing exercise beforeyou go to work?
Like work related stress, yeah,yeah, that's every day for them
(24:55):
that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yes, it is yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Okay, what are some beauty rituals that support both
emotional healing and hairhealth?
There's so many things thatcome to mind.
Girl, give us one, just give usone, one that you've seen had
(25:20):
the most effect on your clients.
One thing is, like I said, ummirror work and affirmations.
Um, what are some affirmationsthat you um?
Do they come up with theseaffirmations on their own, or do
(25:42):
you have like a booklet of, orlike like a notepad of,
affirmations that you give out,depending on what the story is,
that you are hearing behind thechair?
Yeah, um, so a lot of time.
It's intuitive.
I'll send it to them directlyfrom my mind.
Yeah, so it's a little bit ofchanneling that message of, like
(26:04):
, what do they need right now?
Oh, it's that connection, causewhile you're talking about
things, I'm listening and for me, um, with my gifts, I can hear
and know things.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Um okay.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So for me it's a lot of times more intuitive of like
okay, this is what you should do.
Um, and that's why I saidthere's so many things that come
to mind but one of one of thethings that come up the most
common is a mirror work inaffirmations um to for them to,
(26:40):
like you know, actually do workaround how they see themselves,
um, and that is that is magical,just that alone, um.
Because we're told how weshould see ourselves a lot of
the times, or we're goingthrough, like we said,
transitions where our how we seeourselves is changing, um, and
(27:04):
so just being able to affirmourselves um and make ritual out
of it, Like.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
This is what.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I'm going to do every single day, or I have my
certain days of the week, umweek, where I affirm myself,
where I hold myself.
But also there's things like Imake a herbal hair tea where you
can use that, you know, and ithas herbs and ingredients that
help to stimulate the folliclesand do the things on that level.
(27:38):
And then there's also spiritualcomponents of like okay, this
is a clear mind blend, so I wantyou to use this and your
affirmations, and I want you topractice mindfulness, so it's a
holistic thing.
Okay, all right, I love that.
So the herbal tea, are they todrink it or they apply it to
(27:59):
their hair?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Or they can do it or Apply it to your hair.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay, okay, okay.
Yeah, there are blends that Imake for internal consumption.
But yeah, I was talking aboutthe hair tea that you can put on
your hair.
And kind of do it like inbetween your conditioner, deep
conditioner or treatment mask.
It's like a rinse I take likekind of like a rinse, okay, and
(28:25):
with the tea, the way, how youincorporate the ingredients, is
it based on the client'ssituation or whatever they're
experiencing?
So it's not like an all-in-one.
It's catered and customized forthat particular client, for
their specific needs.
Yeah, for the most part, but Ido have a blend that I sell.
(28:45):
That is just a all-in-one, likea basic formula, but yeah, if
someone needed a little bit more, they could definitely get a
custom.
What is the name of the onethat you sell?
Clear Mind.
Clear Mind.
Okay, just got to put that outthere just in case someone want
to purchase.
Yeah, you know what is the info.
(29:06):
We need it.
Yeah, so I'll be posting moreabout it here in the next couple
of weeks.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Okay.
How can aromatherapy oressential oils be used to
support hair and emotionalwell-being?
I'm sorry, repeat that question.
How can aromatherapy oressential oils be used to
support hair and emotionalwell-being?
Yes, love essential oils.
(29:35):
I have them all in the space.
Do you have favorite ones?
I do.
I love lemongrass.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Me too.
I think it's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yes, it's so energizing.
I do use a lot of peppermintand lavender in the slime.
I do use a lot of peppermintand lavender in the salon.
So yeah, for the calming andthe clarity.
I like the peppermint for thetingly feeling.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Mm-hmm Dee, I've been to a place where it's a clean
salon, no chemicals, and Ireally enjoyed the shampoo
session she also did mind workwhile I was there.
Yeah, she did, she did, she dida lot of mind work um, a lot of
(30:30):
um, um.
It's been so long, but you knowhow you align your chakras, you
know she did this chakra uhwork.
Is it reiki?
Yes, it was, and I and I alsogot my hair done, so it was just
like I love that.
It was amazing, yeah and uh.
What I really loved was likeher intentionally just it's so
(30:52):
simple but just taking a littlebit of peppermint oil, rubbing
it in her hands and just youknow, basically just moving it
around my face so I can inhaleit and then begin to relax so
she could do the work.
Yes and um, I do do that duringmy uh scalp facials.
So, yes, they get to experiencethat aromatherapy, like, okay,
(31:14):
we're going to move into thisnext section and people love
that.
They be like, oh, it's an entireexperience.
You know, and I do believereceiving that level of
intentional care not only justfrom your hair but also from
your mind, like you've beentalking about mindfulness,
(31:36):
spiritual connection to yourselffrom within that can relieve so
much cortisol.
You know you could really youknow you could really learn a
lot from these sessions and, youknow, try to adapt these to
your day-to-day life.
But I think that's like areally great way of self-care to
(31:58):
make sure if you areexperiencing hair loss due to
stress that is like one of thebest things that you like.
Invest in the stylist that'soffering it you know invest in a
stylist that's offering thosetypes of you know healings.
You know, I think that would beso great, especially if it's
(32:20):
nothing else.
It's like you just stressed,you know, that's literally it,
and I believe some people can'thold on to their hair and still
be stressed.
You know, I think it definitelydepends on the biology of
whatever is.
You know, whatever it is thattakes up to make your, make up
your integumentary system.
You know but um yeah, I thinkthat would be so great for
(32:44):
someone who is just, it's just,stress, nothing in your blood,
nothing in your health, you know.
I think that would be like agreat recommendation.
Well, you know, I um have abackground in aesthetics as well
and one of the things that welearn as an esthetician is that
(33:05):
90% of the things that we see onthe skin are results of
inflammation and inflammationone of the culprits.
The response of inflammationfirst of all is stress.
So stress not only on anexternal level, but stress
(33:26):
internal.
That's why we have to go intothe nutrition, that's why we
have to go into the diet,because what are you even eating
that stress you out and raiseyour cortisol?
Yeah, so for me, that's why itgoes a little deeper, because
the understanding of whatinflammation even is and we can
(33:49):
think like, oh, that's just ahealth issue and now it's
separate.
No, bring it right back,because how did we get to that
health issue?
Right, right, and we have toget to diet.
We got to get to nutrition,then we got to get into okay,
well, you in the food desert, welooking at the political things
of it.
Right, right, right, whatchanges do you need to make?
(34:10):
These things have always been athing for us.
Like you hear a matter of CJWalker and how she came to make
her product.
She was addressing scalp issues.
Right, we still have scalpissues.
We still have scalp issues,hair loss she was addressing
that.
So, these things have alwaysbeen a thing from different
angles.
So yeah, just being mindful aspractitioners that you know it's
(34:38):
just deeper.
It sure is, yep, with you youdo offer locks as a service at
your salon, correct?
Yes, do you ever experiencewhere you have a client where at
the base is thinning and theyare experiencing hair loss?
Yep, and you know, of course,down the shaft of that lock is
(35:04):
heavy In your practice?
Have you noticed that it'sbecause the lock is heavy and
it's thinning the hair at thebase, or is it that the hair is
just not growing in as dense asit was once before, or both?
Uh, yeah, mostly that thatthere's been a shift in the hair
growth.
Um, I don't.
(35:27):
I mean, if their hair is likereally long, I'll start to see
that traction alopecia, butotherwise I honestly see more of
where the hair growth has justshifted throughout the process.
That could be for a couplereasons.
I know a lot of times withBlack men and their locks I see
(35:51):
a lot of.
I forget the name is.
Is it DHT?
No, there's a condition thatI've learned about where the
psychological um disorder thatis going on is that they are
(36:13):
twisting their hair back andforth because of anxiety.
Right, yeah, for soothing, forsoothing.
That's actually what I see themost in Black men with locks is
there's anxiety and I'm justtwisting, twisting, twisting.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And they're stressing those follicles out.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yes, and it's breaking off you know it's just,
it's just one hand break off.
Um, I had one client who hadhis whole side, was pretty much
gone, and as I'm like looking,I'm like okay, and he brought in
a bag of locks like can you?
Oh my gosh oh so you do do uh,repairing too okay yes, yes, and
(36:56):
uh, he sat on there.
We both just looked at eachother.
I said, so what is this, right,what you've been doing, what
you've been doing, what's goingon, yeah, so I, um, I started to
ask some questions because I'mlike, okay, so what you eating,
what you did?
Okay, cool, how you feeling allright.
And as we began to talk, andhe's talking about just where he
(37:18):
is in life and you know,considering getting married and
the stress of that, and you know, I'm in a transition, I'm a new
father I'm like, ok, I'm makingends meet, like all these
things.
Ok, stress, ok, how do you dealwith that stress?
Like you know, I don't, I'm notdoing the things that I
normally would do.
Do you deal with that stress?
(37:39):
Like you know, I don't, I'm notdoing the things that I
normally would do.
So, as we're talking, I justnoticed that he has what I would
consider like anxiety.
You know, um, and I have beentrained through psychotherapy to
understand mental health,through hair, mm-hmm, and so I
(37:59):
was able to identify that and Iwas like, you know, do you
experience anxiety at any point?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
It's like, yeah, bad, my anxiety bad, you know, and
I'm like I'm not laughing at hisstruggle.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I'm just laughing at the delivery because it's just,
I feel like that's how we talk.
That's how we talk.
It's bad, it's bad.
Oh my gosh.
I'm all it's bad man.
I said oh.
I said okay.
So what do we do?
What you been doing?
You been doing your music.
I know you into music, I ain'tdoing that, I doing that.
(38:40):
I said okay.
I said so you sleep on thisside.
He told me no, I'll just beplaying with my hair.
Yeah, I was like okay.
So.
I was like okay, so this, thisis that, but yeah yeah it's.
It's so many layers, we gottaknow what questions to ask.
You do you absolutely do it'suh, it's always uh backtracking?
You have to backtrack in orderto find the root cause, in order
to even fix the problem andprovide a solution.
You know, and um thatconsultation, you can be there
(39:04):
for a good 30 minutes trying tofigure out what is the problem,
because you can't help them ifyou can't backtrack.
You know, if they don't recall,remember what they do, and
sometimes you do this somindlessly when you're twirling
in your hair.
That's a mindless thing, youknow.
Even I do it at the back of myneck.
It's so soothing, you knowblack women too, yeah yeah, it's
very soothing.
(39:24):
I blame my cousin, though,because when I was little like
she would she was my oldercousin, she was more like a big
sister, and she would play in myhair and she always would take
the the neck area and like, giveme little strokes, and it's so
soothing.
So now I do it to myself andit's, and it's.
It really is a thing.
(39:45):
Like you know, when we uh lookat the hair from a scientific
perspective like this literallyis our extension of our nervous
system, right, so it literallygoes up there, right.
It makes so much sense.
You know.
I still blame her, though,because I'm like if she'd never
(40:06):
done it, I would have never been, you know, so inclined right
and it feels great.
And then I have to be like stop,you know, because I mean it's,
it's, it's just a thing, youknow, I don't, I don't be like
you know.
Okay, stop doing that, becauseI understand it's a soothing
thing.
But if you could find a littlespot.
(40:28):
Yeah, even with my clients.
They'll be sitting in the chairand we're consulting, and I'll
see them grab like that sideburnarea, yeah, and they're just
twirl, and I'd be like stop.
They'd be like okay, okay, Iquit, I quit, I quit.
I just had to lay it out, likeyou know.
I understand this, but this isthe result.
So I just want you to be awareand you make your choice.
(40:50):
That's exactly.
Yeah, that's it, that's all youcan do, because when they leave
, yeah, there's only so much wecan do, you know yeah, you just
hope that I did suggest you gosee a therapist.
Yeah, like, yeah, you know, justto get back grounded.
You know something, some stuffis so temporary, especially like
(41:12):
getting married.
You know one day you're gonnabe married, so that stress will
be gone.
Yeah, you know, stepping into,stepping into fatherhood I think
that's going to be a foreverstressor.
You got to learn how to manageyour stress.
Absolutely yeah, transition youknow it is what it is.
You know, oh, yeah, yep, goahead and accept this where you
(41:36):
at For real.
Yeah, go ahead and accept thiswhere you at For real.
Yeah.
What's the importance ofhydration and detoxification in
maintaining healthy hair?
Definitely, water is life.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (41:51):
about oils, because there is so much controversy on
the internet amongst the blackhair community where it's like
don't use pomades, don't useoils.
This is suffocating your scalp.
This is suffocating your hair.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
It's so much.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
It's right.
Tell me what you think aboutthat.
You know, I feel like Ishouldn't throw the baby out
with the baby bathwater.
I think be out with the baby,uh, bath water.
I think I think that there'sreason.
We have always used butters,oils, and I think that it's
(42:28):
still relevant.
I think, yeah, like what theheck?
You know we got that's.
That's part of our hair ritual.
Another thing is the science ofhow this works.
Okay, you have the hydrationand now, yes, you have to seal
in that moisture.
Or you'll get you know waterloss.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You don't want that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Especially when we're in conditions where it's warmer
or even extreme cold.
Yeah, environmental is veryimportant to consider, for sure.
Yeah, I think it has a lot todo with that.
If you're in a place where it'ssuper warm, okay, maybe you
just use the oil, not a pomadeyou needs in the moment.
I know there's a lot of curlyhair professionals who are
(43:23):
completely against it.
They're mostly curly hairprofessionals, right, and in
some cases I can understand whythey feel this way.
However, for us kinky, coilygirls, uh, where our hair is so
vulnerable and it lacks so muchmoisture because it's so kinky
(43:48):
and coily, it's reallychallenging to moisturize
because these curls are runningin so many different directions,
unlike if it's a looser pattern, you can just apply it, move,
move on.
Hair stays moisturized.
Literally.
Different folks yeah,absolutely.
And so when they push thenarrative, sometimes it's like I
(44:10):
don't disagree, but I don'tagree either.
It just depends on what theclient needs.
Most of Black women, we'relooking for length and density
retention.
We're not really focused oncurly hair.
That's usually not the numberone priority for Black women.
(44:30):
So you cannot push thatnarrative, depending on the goal
for the client, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Now, if you want to embrace your curls, I would say
no, because pomades are heavy,it's gonna be heavy, it's heavy.
It can also stretch the curlpattern because it is so heavy.
Um, it can suffocate it alittle too, depending on you
know, uh, where you at and whatyou want, what's your desire you
, you know.
So there literally is differentstrokes for different folks,
(45:02):
depending on what your goal isLike.
I would not recommend you tonot use oil.
And you have locks, you know,like crazy work, I wouldn't do
that.
I would not do that.
Go ahead and lock that in.
Yes, for sure yeah, but I willsay you know making sure it's
(45:24):
the right ingredients.
You know absolutely.
Thank you for touching on thattoo.
Come on keep going yeah yeah, so, like you know, our head is is
is very, very, um precious, andso we don't want to.
You know our follicles, they goright into the bloodstream, you
know so forth, so we want tomake sure that it's medicine
(45:45):
going in we don't want to makesure, we want to make sure that
it's not toxic to our system,our endocrine disruptors and
things like that.
We don't want that.
So, yeah, we want to make surethat it is medicine that's going
in or something that actuallycan be used by the body.
Absolutely Thank you for that.
(46:06):
Yeah, for someone strugglingwith hair loss, where do you
recommend they start theirhealing journey?
Um, definitely start with graceoh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Start with acceptance , start with um courage.
Be gentle with yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Look at what's happening internally and
externally.
Look at where you are in life.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Look around and really take into account what
that means for you and whycertain things are showing up.
Stress diet.
Most importantly, small changesdone consistently create big
(47:05):
transformations.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
So yeah, starting with small things shifting the
diet, shifting stress levels,doing things that honor you
faithfuls, doing things thathonor you, and that may even be
making that appointment to gosee the dermatologist or go see
the doctor to address, maybe,finally, an issue that you have
(47:30):
been carrying Right.
So, yeah, I would say, startwith grace Absolutely, because
we can be so hard on ourselvesand you know I know you
mentioned shame earlier Like youstart to feel shame and you
also, you know, like kind ofself-blaming, like what did I do
?
You know, what did I do, what Ididn't do, like, you know,
(47:54):
going through that mind space, Imust have did something wrong,
right.
So that's why, when youmentioned grace, I'm like, yes,
grace is very important wheneveryou are experiencing, you know,
an impact such as hair loss.
Yeah, you got to be patientwith yourself and be nice to
yourself, like you mentioned, begentle, you know all those
(48:15):
things that you mentioned, andeven for my girls who are trying
to accept wearing their naturalcurly hair, because that's a
whole transformation withinitself.
You know, I always oh hi Closethe door please.
My children.
(48:36):
I love it.
We keeping that in.
Okay, it don't supposed to beperfect, I love that.
I wish he would have saidsomething.
I know one month okay, I don'twant to mess up the recording.
It's okay, we're almost doneanyway.
(48:58):
Okay, can you hear them?
Yeah, it's okay.
This is my real life.
I'm a mommy.
Yeah, we're gonna leave that.
I love it.
We're gonna leave it.
I'm not even gonna going totell Bryce to cut it.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
It's like keep it rolling, yeah, keep it rolling.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
This is a raw footage that y'all are receiving right
now.
This is real.
This is who I am.
Yeah, we're not cutting it atall.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
What's one key piece of advice you would give to
someone who feels discouragedabout their hair?
Back to grace, but alsoapproaching the journey with
patience and love and justknowing that, like you are a
(50:03):
whole person, like how you areshowing up, isn't even
scratching the surface of allthat you are, so taking that
power back to say whatever it is, you know.
However, I look today is okay,like right, because this is me,
real life.
Hey, right, this is really ajourney.
(50:26):
So, um, yeah, just patience andlove on yourself, right?
Do you ever have to share hairstories to let them know you're
not alone?
You know, have you ever had toshare a hair story to make them
feel relatable?
So, it can help, you know, withalso moving forward in this new
(50:46):
journey.
Yeah, I share my own stories.
So you suffer from hair loss,not hair loss.
I did suffer a bit of not likecomplete hair loss.
I did suffer a bit of not likecomplete hair loss.
I have suffered from, likepostpartum hair loss.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, oh, yeah, that I talkabout all the time.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Can you?
Speaker 1 (51:11):
share that story Like walk us through your story.
You know of how you dealt withthat emotionally and even though
it's temporary, it's still athing.
It's still a part of what youexperienced, right?
It doesn't?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
feel good in the moment.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
No, it can be shocking.
It can be shocking especiallythat's one thing that people
don't really tell you.
When you have it, they don'ttell you your hair just fall out
and you're like why is my hairfalling out?
Wait, y'all didn't tell me thatHold on.
Right.
So that was.
That was kind of shocking, um,but once I got over the shock of
(51:51):
, oh my God, is this happening?
Cause I think it for me, ittook a minute to really see that
that's what it is Right,because I was like, oh I don't
know, maybe my hairstyle justnot popping the way I want it to
.
Yeah, where did you notice thehair loss first?
Was it around your perimeter?
Yeah, that's where mine was too.
(52:11):
It started around my perimeter.
And you know this area of thetemple area, the edge right
there, that is when you look attraditional Chinese medicine or
even African traditionalmedicine.
They can break down the headinto quadrants where they are
(52:33):
representative of certain partsof the body, and so when you get
into this area where a lot ofpostpartum loss happens, that is
actually it's telling youspecifically a hormonal thing.
Oh okay, yeah.
So for me it was like oh okay,I see, I know, and now I'm going
(52:54):
to address it.
So I actually started to dohormonal therapy with herbs.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
So, yeah, I started to incorporate more like maca
fruit my diet into mysupplements.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
I started to use horsetail.
Oh yeah, good one, yeah, sure.
So doing things like thatashwagandha for the mood and for
the hormones as well, yeah, butyeah, I started to do that and
also I just had to really acceptthat that was a part of the
(53:35):
journey that I was currently on.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Yeah, I did just give life.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
And so.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
I'm not going to focus on this loss as a loss,
but rather a um, a omen that Ihave passed through this rite of
passage.
Right Like this is kind of whathappened and it made me, like I
said, think about how I'mcaring for myself, and so it was
(54:01):
always.
It turned into a deeper thingbecause how am I caring for
myself now that I've given life?
Let me put back my nutrients,Let me put back my stuff and
really something.
It's just a part of yourjourney.
Yeah, you know, I try to advisethem to keep taking hair
(54:26):
vitamins, but even hair vitaminsstill will A minute.
It takes a minute and sometimesit just don't work, you know,
and I just always have to remindthem that it will pass.
It will pass For me.
I cut my hair.
I was just not dealing with allof the breakage.
(54:47):
I couldn't.
It was like an eyesore.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I did too, yeah, it was like an eyesore.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
The hair is extremely combative.
It don't want to behave.
You can't style it.
It don't lay to behave.
You can't style it.
Don't lay down right.
It's too weak and vulnerable toreceive hairstyles with tension
, so you really just need toleave it alone.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
You know, yep.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Literally.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, release the control.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
That's another thing.
Right, yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it just was happening.
Yeah, except it's like I didcut the sides of my hair off,
just was happening.
Like I did cut the sides of myhair off and I was like you know
what?
We just going to rock thisMohawk, right, and I'm going to
do all the things.
And still, when I go out,people like what I love your
hair and so it actuallyempowered me.
I turned you know you can turnit into this thing where
(55:36):
actually I'm going to embrace it.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
I got different earrings now I'm about to adore
myself Like.
This is just what it is.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
It's such an experiment once you empower it.
You know, if you just let it be, you'd be surprised once you
let go of that control, like youmentioned.
You'd be surprised how creativeyour brain can get when you
just let it go, because I neverthought in a million years that
(56:00):
I would ever rock a pixie.
By choice I would never rock apixie, and I know it was super
cute.
When she got done, I loved it.
You know it was hard.
It was just trying to adjust tothe new look, you know, yeah,
but um, and I loved it even moreas it grew out, because I had
the longer bangs and I kept theback and the sides tapered and I
(56:22):
had, like a Bieber, a JustinBieber look going on.
It was just more of a femininetouch though, you know, and I
received.
Right, I received so manycompliments and I would wear
these cute little fedora hatsand go buy jewelry.
You know, it was just like Iwas just adding to that
aesthetic and I really embracedit.
(56:42):
You know it was hard but Imanaged to get through it, you
know and that's it.
It's a, it's a journey.
So you go through the processof okay, how do I find my power
in this?
And I'm just gonna rock it, I'mgonna do this, I'm gonna do
that, you know.
But yeah, it's still a journey.
You still may have thosemoments of sadness, still may
(57:04):
experience that grief, but it isa journey that you will get
over and get through and thehair will grow back because it's
postpartum.
It's temporary, so it will growback.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yes, just find something to do in between you
know Very good.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, how can people connect with you and learn more
about your work?
So, right now, you can followme on Instagram at the Root and
Honey, and, yeah, that's kind ofwhere I'm at right now.
You can book a session, uh, oryou can join one of my upcoming
(57:47):
workshops.
I actually am doing a workshopwith a lovely black woman
therapist, uh, and partner withanother co-stylist to do a
series called Black Women andMental Health, where we'll be
discussing Black women, mentalhealth and hair.
(58:09):
So, yeah, I'm just going tokeep it rolling.
So, yeah, follow me onInstagram.
Website information TikTok.
So I don't have a website rightnow, but working on that.
Like I said, I do have theproducts and things.
They've been sold locally.
I'm actually expanding toonline this spring.
(58:35):
So it's a lot of work, huh Lotsof work, yeah, I've been there.
That's why I stopped.
I was like I'm good, I'm tired.
Yeah, you know what, for me,it's about uh, balance with
everything that I'm doing, so Idon't put too much on myself.
So I'm like you know, it'ssmall batch, handcrafted.
I love that.
It would.
I can give that's right andthat's the only way quality
(58:58):
results are produced.
Let's just be honest and it's alot for us to balance.
We wear so many hats behindthat chair, you know so.
I love the fact that yourbalance is so intentional and
you are also very aware of youneeding that balance, and it's
not about just pushing somethingout.
(59:19):
You want it to be right.
You know so that the customeror whoever is going to invest in
you, they're receiving it attop tier you know, yeah, that's
important to me.
Yeah, I love that, yes, well,thank you so much for carving
time out of your beautifulSunday because I see the sun
coming in through the window.
(59:40):
So I know it's a beautifulSunday for y'all.
You know it's sunny, but it'ssnowy out here in Detroit.
Oh, really, we in the windstorm.
Yes, oh, it's cold today, butit's not snow.
I mean, it's Texas.
Yeah, yeah, I wish I couldenjoy that heat.
No, you don't.
(01:00:02):
You say no, no, you do not.
It is life-threatening.
Oh, let me tell you, it islife-threatening.
I'm not.
During the summer, we all, webarely make it but listen,
that's all detroit.
Oh, my god, yeah, I'd be likedang.
Yeah, well, hopefully some ofthat sun melted a little bit,
(01:00:22):
you know.
Yeah, so y'all can get out andenjoy some of that beautiful,
refreshing air.
It's nothing like it, you know,nothing like it.
I appreciate it.
You're welcome, thank you.
Thank you.
What an enlighteningconversation.
A huge thank you to Empress forsharing her wisdom on the power
(01:00:43):
of holistic beauty and thedeeper connections we have with
our hair.
Her insights on mindfulself-care, herbal remedies and
creating intentional beautyspaces truly show how hair is
more than just an aesthetic it'sa reflection of our inner and
outer well-being.
If you love this episode, besure to check out Empress' work
through Root Honey, where shecontinues to educate and inspire
(01:01:06):
through beauty and wellness.
And, of course, don't forget tosubscribe, rate and share hair.
What I'm saying with fellowbeauty lovers Until next time,
take care of yourself and yourhair with intention.
See you soon.
You, you, you.
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