"Reinventing a Legacy: The Journey of a Barbershop Entrepreneur with Omar Lavender"

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's episode, where we dive into a
powerful story of transformationand reinvention in the world of
entrepreneurship.
Our guest today is a formerbarbershop owner who built an
empire, only to face thechallenges that come with such
success.
But rather than giving up, heembraced reinvention, turning
setbacks into new opportunities,from creating a thriving

(00:21):
community to navigating theemotional journey of closure and
new beginnings.
His story is one of growth,vision and resilience.
Let's hear how he reinventedhimself and his business and the
valuable lessons he's learnedalong the way.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart.
Today we are in Phoenix,arizona, with Omar Lavender.

(00:42):
Omar, how are you Welcome?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
to the show.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for coming in.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
No thank you for sharing with us.
Thank you for being a guest andcarving some time out of your
schedule to be here with us.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's too easy, too easy, too easy.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
That's good, that's good to know.
Well, we'll just jump rightinto it.
If that's what you want to do,just jump right into it.
If that's what you want to do,you got something you want to
say, or something you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Let's get right to it .

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Let's get right into it then.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hear what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
What inspired you to drop out of high school and
pursue your dream of becoming abarber?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
So I wasn't really good at school.
So that made it easy rightthere.
Um, I just I had a hard time atschool.
So when I got to my senior yearmy last year in high school um,
I just left what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:34):
you had a hard time, like I just had a hard time.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I got left back in the third grade so like
academically academically.
Yeah, I had a hard time justkeeping up with the pace and
learning and you know, justgoing through school I was just
tired of it.
You know I had a hard timepicking it up.
So it made my decision easyOnce I knew what I wanted to do,

(01:56):
it made my decision easy.
It wasn't the best decision butyou know, at that time I was
really impatient.
So you know I wanted to getright to it and I wound up
leaving school and joining abarber school.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
What grade were you in when you dropped out?
11th 11th, yeah, and how didyour parents support you?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I was in 11th grade, but I only had credits for like
10th.
I was really yeah, I was bad inhigh school.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you also did.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
You have a behavior problem too, no, no, no when I
say bad, bad academically.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Oh, okay, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
It was hard for me to pay attention.
It was hard for me to focus.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Were you not just interested?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I was not interested.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, Not one subject just.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Not one subject.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Maybe history sometime, because some of the
things are are interesting.
But for, like, math science, Ileft out in science, like I
hated science, I didn't feellike why, why I needed to be
here, like I didn't, you know,at that time I was just super
impatient with myself did youknow what you wanted to be when
you were being impatient like,did you know?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
like I just want to be a barber.
Or you just knew, you justdidn't want to have nothing to
do with school.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I know, I just know I didn't want to have anything to
do with school.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
But I used to always shake myself up and cut people
in my neighborhood.
So I knew we had a barberschool in the county that I was
in and I used to always, youknow, drive past it.
So one day I picked up apamphlet and I just like had the
pamphlet, the brochure, in myin my room.

(03:28):
This was probably like myjunior year, like that junior
year that summertime, beforeschool started, I picked up a
pamphlet.
I just walked in there, pickedup a pamphlet and I had it for
like two weeks, so like I didn'tlast too long, that in the
beginning of that school Iprobably lasted like two weeks
and I got up out of there,talked to my mother, told her
what I wanted to do, and we madeit happen with the school.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, it was super, super like impulsive.
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's what I'm sitting up here processing, I'm
like, because I'm thinking maybesince you were a kid, you had
dreams of being a barber.
But it just sounds like youjust kind of had a natural gift
and you just went with it.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
I don't even think it was just a gift, it was a
decision.
I just made a quick decision.
You know I was having a hardtime with school.
I was like I'm not going to behere until I'm 19, 20.
Right you know, so Okay, yeah,I did not want to be there at 20
.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
And that's what it was looking like for me to catch
up with my credits.
It was like 19, 20.
I was like, nah, I'm notstaying here.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Do you think you would have been or you would
have excelled academically ifyou would have been interested?
Or you just like your mind islike one of those, like you just
block it if it just don't wantto have nothing to do with it no
, I think I was.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I was really serious in high school.
I had a girlfriend I was realserious with.
I wanted money, you know, soyou're trying to grow a family
yeah, I wanted like a car.
I wanted to be able to take herout to dinner like I liked,
having money in my pocket.
So, and I knew I was kind ofgood at cutting hair, you know,
and I just took that chance.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
What did she think about you dropping out?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Who.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Your girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I don't even remember , I don't know, I don't remember
it wasn't really important, youdon't remember?
Yeah, I don't really rememberhow she felt about it, but yeah,
I was serious in high school,like I was like you feel like
you was more mature too, beinglike a grown man.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
That's how I felt like too, just rushing in a rush
.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
So when you entered into barber school, how long was
barber school for you, like?
How many hours is that?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
It was 1,500 hours.
I finished it in nine months.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh so you were passionate about that.
Yeah, Finished it in ninemonths.
Oh so you were passionate aboutthat, yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay, that's all I was doing.
I wasn't going to school, so Iwas treating that like school,
like my last.
My senior year would have been,you know, that time would have
been like I was going to school.
So.
I just used that time like Iwas going to school, I was out
by like that next September Iwas out.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, because $1,500 usually take like a year.
Depending on how long the daysare, it can take like a year and
you got out of there in likenine months.
Yeah, yeah.
So whenever you completedbarber school, did you go
straight into opening up yourfirst barbershop or you did work
under somebody.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Nah, I worked for somebody for three and a half
years.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, how was that?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
It was cool.
It was cool, it was good.
I worked in like an older agebarbershop probably like 35 and
up.
Most of the barbers was like 35and up.
It was cool.
I learned a lot.
It was a good starting placefor me.
You know I was super youngaround all of these OG barbers.
It was really good.

(06:41):
I was around like older men atthat time Was that in.
Woodbridge too, yeah okay, yeah, right in the same town.
All of this is right in thesame town okay.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
So after three years, like what motivated you to just
start your barbershop.
Like what made you feel like,okay, I have enough, you know,
skill set practically, but alsosome type of business management
in order to feel confident tostart your first business.
Like what inspired that.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
It was just out of frustration, kind of like how I
left school.
It was just out of frustration.
I was kind of getting into itwith one of the like.
We brought another barber inthat was around the same age as
me.
I was in there shining and youknow kind of me and him was kind
of butting heads a little bit.
So I was just I had in my mindset like I'm not leaving here to
go work in somebody else's shop, oh, okay.

(07:33):
So I already had in my mindlike once I leave here I'm going
to my own spot or I'm doing awhole nother career, I'm doing
something else, okay, yeah.
So why were y'all bunnies?
Just because we was just likehe was just trying to get more
clientele, like he he was.
It was a competition thing.
Like I don't do competition,like I don't.
I never liked competition rightyou know.
so I felt like when, when hecame in, it was just like a

(07:55):
young barber thing, like he justfelt like I I was competition
to him and and we just kind ofgot into it a little bit and
that was enough for me.
Me Like I don't like kind ofgetting ignorant, especially at
somebody else's barbershop.
That gave both of usopportunities, absolutely.
You know, it would have beennasty.
So once I had that situation Ihad my mind on like going to go
get my own shop and it didn'thappen.

(08:17):
Like it didn't take too longfor that to happen.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, I was going to say how long did it happen?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was like right away.
It was like within a couplemonths.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, so what happened?
You was driving down the road,saw a building.
Tell me what happened.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
So yeah, kind of something similar to what you
just said.
Like it was a barbershop a fewmiles away from my house, I went
and I looked inside of thewindow.
It didn't have any for salesigns or anything Okay, but it
had like checker print floorsand I just remember seeing that
right and I had a crazy dreamjust about the checker print

(08:54):
floors right.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Afterwards.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right after that night, uh-huh, because I just
peeked in there just to see whatwas going on.
Just to see what was going on.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
And I had to dream, right and um, it was just.
It was just these black andwhite floors.
I don't remember nothing elseabout the dream, but the floors,
right.
So then, so within those Idon't know how long like after
that, I was, uh, searchingonline for barbershops for sale
in Woodbridge and I put thatsimple verbiage in Google
barbershops for sale inWoodbridge and it took me to a

(09:27):
website called buybizcom oh yeahyeah, and I got in touch with
the realtor that was, uh, thathad, uh a barbershop for sale
yeah and I called the realtorand it happened to be that
barbershop.
I didn't know it because youknow they can't give you certain
information unless you unlessyou like send in your ID, like
it's confidential information ofthe locations that they post

(09:50):
until until they feel like youserious enough and they'll give
you the address and they'll tellyou how much is going for and
all of that.
Uh, so that's how I came acrossthat just like everything just
happened like right after thatincident, I swear maybe that
next day I just was driving Iwas like, let me just put a peek
in here and see what's going on, and it just lined up Next day,

(10:12):
maybe a week or two after thatincident.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
You were already building your barber shop after
a week of having thataltercation with the barber.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
No, that's how I found it.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Oh, a week, okay, I'm like dang, that was fast Okay
so how long did it take for youto actually move into your place
, your own place?

Speaker 2 (10:34):
How long did it take?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, I mean what you mean, so you know from the time
you started looking like, howlong did it take for you to make
that move and go ahead andstart your own business?

Speaker 2 (10:43):
I want to say like like January.
February was when I was gettingin touch with the, with the,
the realtor, and we kind offinalized everything like in
March.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
And yeah.
So I got like the okay andeverything.
So it took me like three months.
I remember it took me likethree months because I went to
the owner and I asked him can Itell my clients, you know that
I'm getting my own shop and allthat?
And it was like three months inbetween.
I opened up in July.
Okay so from like March, when Igot the okay and everything
kind of the processing, fromlike March to about July.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Was it already built out like a barbershop?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
It was already built out.
Everything was already there.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
So you just moved in.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I just moved in, yeah .

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Oh, dang did so.
You just moved in, I just movedin.
Yeah, oh dang.
That's why the process was soquick, because I was thinking,
like you had to like remodeleverything and get it prepared
to be a barbershop.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know it was a key turn business.
Oh wow, so all the chairs wasthere.
It wasn't set up.
I had to clean it and make itto my liking, but everything
necessary was there already okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
So I know from working with you and my
experience with you, what Inoticed the most was like that
strong sense of community thatyou were able to build once you
got well, you actually had twolocations by the time I learned
about your business.
But how did you build thatstrong sense of community?
Was that intentional?

Speaker 2 (11:58):
No, it wasn't.
None of this shit wasintentional.
Yeah, it wasn't intentional.
It was just like one of theguys came with me that worked in
pro styling with me at thefirst barbershop I went to.
I knew him already before westarted working together.
So I had a relationship withone person already and I got
another guy from the barberschool and me and him all three

(12:19):
of us kind of built a tight bond.
And then people just startcoming.
Once people see like a tightbond, they want to be a part of
a part of something you know.
Once people see like you knowthere's something going on here
with this group, like it drawsinterest to it.
So that's kind of how I drew,uh, you know community to, to,
uh, to my barbershop, justhaving a good group of men in

(12:42):
the shop.
You know know, people justseeing that Right.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
And you know communities, just start
developing after that.
Mm-hmm, and like the passion,like seeing that you were driven
, you were serious, you know.
Yeah, I'm sure that helped.
We was all on the same page.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
We was all like kind of all on the same page.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
So after a while it just started multiplying, like
you know.
So after a while I just startedmultiplying.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
More barbers or just more clientele?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
More barbers more people, just more interests,
more interests, yeah.
Okay, and how long were you atthat location before you started
?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
your second location Four years, four years.
Okay, yeah, about four years,about four years.
So whenever I started, you know, working with you, I think I
walked into like the no shaveNovember.
No, it was the breast cancerawareness.

(13:37):
Like what inspired you to wantto, you know, spread awareness
with your organization and yourbusiness.
Like, you know, making sure youlet the community know that you
are involved in these.
You know these awarenesses areimportant to you.
What inspired it?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, I mean, I had a friend personally that was
going through that situation.
I had to cut her hair and sheused to always bring her son to
the shop, so she was kind ofknown, you know, in the
barbershop and we and I justtalked to the guys and told them
you know what was going on, andwe all came up with that idea
to do something like breastcancer awareness.

(14:12):
I mean, a lot of people areaffected by cancer period.
So, you know, a lot of peoplejust kind of caught on and as
far as the barbers and theclients go, they kind of just
caught on because everybody kindof relates to a situation
around cancer.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
So I did it personally, though, for a friend
that was going through asituation.
Matter of fact, she passed awaytoo from that.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
How long after?

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Probably like five years maybe.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Oh wow, I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, she fought a tough battle, but that was my
inspiration behind doing that.
Talk to the guys about it.
It was all cool with it, youknow, and, um, you know, after a
while you start talking topeople like anything else you
know, and then people starthelping, other organizations
start to join in with you yeahso yeah, I thought that was
pretty dope, because I've neverseen a barbershop do that, ever.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Not where I'm from, where I'm from.
You just get your haircut andyou go home.
I mean, it's a community whereyou come and gossip, talk about
what's going on in the community.
But yours was more to me.
It was like an organization,not just a shop, but it was like
an organization, you know, notjust a shop, but it was like an

(15:25):
organization too, you know, andso much intention went into how
you were building your community.
I don't know if you were awarethat that's what you were doing.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I think maybe it was just kind of acting in the
moment, you know no, it's justlike when people like, when
people come into you and theypatronize your business, you
gain, you have a, you grow abond.
But what?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
I'm saying is did you know that that was gonna?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
happen for you.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, so that's what I'm saying, yeah so I don't
think it was your intention, butbecause you're listening to
your clients and listening towhat's going on with them or
just whatever's going around inwoodbridge, it's like you just
attracted it because of what youwere doing.
So I I guess my question waslike, was it intentional at all?
And it just seemed like you'rejust listening to your clients

(16:09):
and you just want to be therefor your clients and show up for
them in like different ways.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
That's what keep us going.
I mean, that's what keep thebusiness rolling.
Like business rolling, that'swhat keep societies going.
It's just like regular, likeregular, ordinary, everyday
people that you're dealing withso right yeah, that was easy.
That was just an easy thought.
And then somebody losing theirhair.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Just like you kind of try to do things to cheer
people up, like yo, it's allright, like I'll cut my shit off
too yeah cutters you know theshell cutters like women came in
there, got cut like, so it wascool how did that make her feel
like when she saw y'all makingthat movement for her based on
her story?

Speaker 2 (16:47):
yeah, she was shocked .
She was just shocked and, youknow, amazed that somebody put
something together like that forher.
You know absolutely I mean, wedidn't make it direct at that
time, directly you know.
But yeah.
She knew what it was for, andyou know, yeah, that was.
It was a good turnout, it wasreally good it was and I walked

(17:10):
into it, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
So I was like, wow, this is amazing, I never seen
really anyone do that.
You know, I hadn't been in theindustry very long I probably
was in the industry for aboutthree years but even just
watching and following styliststhat I know, I never seen nobody
do that.
So I was like this is a reallygreat place to be.
You know, like what you weredoing for like everyone,

(17:33):
Donating hair.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like the hair that we cut, you donate it to people,
hair is a big deal, yeah forsure.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
So I was especially impressed when we attended the
IBS in New York.
Do you remember that we went tothe IBS in New York?
That was so much fun.
So what made you say like Iwant to be a part of this as
well, because the IBS to me ismore for, like hairstylists,
estheticians.
There are like a smallcommunity of barbers that come,

(18:03):
but not a lot.
So what inspired you to saylike, hey, we're going to get
together and we're going to goto the IBS and we're going to
show up and network and all ofthe above?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Any opportunity I get to travel, like, go have fun,
I'm going to go do it, Okay, so,and also that bring together
the team too.
Like you know who doesn't liketraveling, who doesn't like
traveling with people with thesame things in common.
You know we all work together.
We got a lot of things incommon.
You know it was just teambuilding at the same time.
That is so I like to have funand team building.

(18:36):
It was easy.
I was trying to incorporate astylist to.
You know, create a barberstylist team and I think it
would have been good to just goas barbers and a couple stylists
that I did have all up theretogether and go to New York.
Who doesn't like traveling?

Speaker 1 (18:53):
We had a great time.
It was so much fun, yeah, itwas a good time.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think it's important to do stuff like that,
though.
When you got a team and you gotto, you know not just working
together, but you guys are, youknow, go eat lunch together
every once in a while, go out oftown together every once in a
while.
You know, that's the way Ithought back then in team
building, and it really helped.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
I feel like it did, it really did.
And when you're mentioning teambuilding, I feel like that's
what's missing in a lot of theseplaces.
It's like doing things outsideof what we do at work in order
to create a bond outside, youknow, of what we just do day to
day.
You know the connections thatyou, you know, have with these

(19:37):
people outside of what you justdo.
It just to me like thebarbershop community of what you
was building.
It just keeps you kind of morecommitted, you know.
It's like family, it becomesmore like family, and that's
what it felt like.
It felt like family, you know,coming in there day-to-day
working.

(19:57):
It just felt, it felt reallygood, like you wanted to be
there, like sometimes you justdon't want to go to work.
You know it has nothing to dowith anything outside of you
don't want to go to work, but Inever did not want to come, you
know, because it was always agood time.
It was always good music,always good vibes, always good
people.
The clients were even amazingand you could tell that they had

(20:17):
a good time too, you know.
So I that's that's what I lovedabout it, as it's a lot of
things I loved about it, butthat was like one of the things
I really miss.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
That was a good time.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
It was a movement.
You know, like you had amovement going.
It was like the 90s.
Like I told you, it was like anera, and I don't know if you
remember, but I remember one dayyou know how your barbershop
was built, with that littlestage which was so intimidating

(20:52):
for a lot of my clients.
They hated and you had me onthe end to the right so they had
to walk that green mile just toget to me.
They hated it and so, uh, itwas like it just felt like
everybody looking at me, youknow.
But, um, I remember sitting onthat little stage and you were
cutting and I was like you havea really great thing going on.
I was like I can see likecelebrities pulling up here one

(21:15):
day like come to get theirhaircut, and you was in so much
disbelief you was like, uh, youknow, like maybe, but I was like
I don't think he see what hehave going on here.
Do you think you saw it inthose moments?

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, I think I seen it for like community-based,
like we could be big here,uh-huh, like we'll get a lot of
people in Woodbridge and thetown that I'm in.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
But I didn't see it as big as like how you were
seeing it, like celebritiescould come in, like people that
are well-known, you know, on TVand stuff like that.
Like I didn't see it at alllike that.
But I felt like I did see itlike a lot as a pillar in the
community, just by like taking aglance over at you know how it

(22:04):
was set up, just looking overand seeing just Matt, just a lot
of action going.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, it was.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
It was just you know it was people waiting in the
front when you first walked inand then you have like this
little soul train line.
It kind of looked like on bothsides you got barbers and you
know stylists on both sides.
It was just a lot of actionlike I tried to.

(22:29):
I just tried to make it likenew york and what I, what I
thought a barbershop, what Igrew up seeing barbershops like
yeah and yeah, that was my focus, just making it like, like the
genesis that I went to genesis.
The barbershop is named afterthe um, the shop that I used to
go to as a kid one of the shopsI used to go to as a kid, one of
the shops I used to go to as akid, oh wow.
That was my big thing, justrecreating that in Virginia.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
It did have a New York vibe, yeah, so barbershops
are like that regularly in NewYork.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
It's live yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
They are not like that where I'm from at all.
So when I walked in there, Iwas like this is different.
I've never experienced nothinglike this.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
And it was respectfully live too Like it
wasn't like it was.
It was everybody kind of likefelt comfortable.
It was everybody felt thecolors.
I chose the right colors.
It was just bright, so itwasn't like it was a lot of you
know nonsense and shit going on.
It was positively like a lotgoing on, like a lot of traffic,

(23:25):
good traffic it felt good whenyou walked in yeah, it did, it
really did.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Like I said, I was always looking forward to coming
to work, like I never dreadedcoming there.
You know I always wanted to bethere.
Even when you had me at thefirst location, you know it
still felt good to come in thereyou know, but it was so much
better at the second location,you know.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, it was time for you to come to the other spot.
Man well, I was so happy.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
I'm glad you came to the first one though.
I was so happy when you camedown there and sat and talked
with me and asked me aboutcoming to the second location.
I'm like, yes, this is cool,but it's cooler there, you know,
yeah, yeah, there, you know,yeah, yeah.
Um, did you ever feeloverwhelmed or burnt out,
balancing your personal lifewith running the businesses that

(24:10):
you had?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
yes yes yeah, very burnt out because it's like it
never stops business neverstopped.
You gotta uh compartmentalize,like your your relationships,
you know you gotta put them incompartments and close them yeah
you know, I didn't know, Istill don't.
Really, I don't know if I knowhow to do it now, but I got so
burnt out.
I'm just not good at that.
So it's just like you go fromone, you go home and then you

(24:33):
carry some stuff over, you know,to the business and after a
while doing that, so many years,you get kind of burnt out,
especially when you'repassionate about when you're
passionate about your business.
And you know, you know I didn'tgo to school for business, so
I'm kind of learning business asI'm doing it.
You know, raising a youngfamily, like it was just a lot.

(24:54):
So yeah, it was a lot, it was aburnout.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
How old were you?

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Oh, I was 23 when the shop opened.
Yeah, like super young 23 whenthe shop opened.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
yeah, that's a lot of responsibility, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I had no business doing that.
Like none, Like none, Come ontell me about what you mean.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
I know what you mean, but I want you to tell the
listeners what you mean.
You had no business doing it.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
It was just way.
I was just expecting, like,results to happen way too fast
and things was happening for mebecause I had the energy, so I
had to push to do it and it washappening and, um, I just I
wasn't ready for it.
Like I like, there's steps thatneed to be taken.
There's a process foreverything.
Right, you know there's stepsthat need to be taken before you

(25:39):
do everything.
And if you just if you missthose steps, then sooner or
later you're gonna get burnt outand the whole everything you
build is going to collapsebecause you didn't take those
those steps.
You know it's kind of likeleaving school.
You know I missed out on, Ididn't get a lot.
You know that comes with justfinishing high school, the
confidence that come with havinga high school diploma.

(25:59):
I didn't have that on theintellectual level, like I could
go out and go make shit happenfor myself, but like it, like I
needed to go through certainthings before I got to where I
started working and then Ineeded to go through things,
even in somebody else'sbarbershop.
That wasn't uh.
Three years wasn't enough forme to go and open my own shop.

(26:22):
You know, I probably shouldhave handled that situation a
little different, like talk tothe owner, like yo, I can't work
here with this dude, like it'snot going to be good.
You know, I could have handledthat situation a lot different,
instead of handling it out offrustration and making an
impulsive move and saying likeyo, I'm about to go get my own
shit at 22.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, that's young, that's alot of responsibility you know,
for somebody so young and also,like you mentioned, like you
didn't have the business, Iguess, management background and
experience to know how toreally build that strong, solid
foundation so that you couldjust really store it.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Foundation was faulty as hell.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
But sometimes it is.
I mean, are you the firstgenerational entrepreneur?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, my home's like nobody owned the business.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah.
So I feel like the firstgeneration that's just what's
going to happen, and the onesthat kept going and made it
happen.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'm like sheesh, it's a lot of work, yeah it'd be
tight if you had guidance alongthe way or somebody that did it
before you.
That you know.
But even if you did, would you,you know, would you listen Like
sometimes you?
So you know you got that energyat that age.
You so ambitious, you so much arebel, you know it doesn't
matter what somebody telling yousometimes, so you know you

(27:40):
could have a business owner inthe family.
Somebody could tell you like yo, slow down, you need to go
through certain things.
I might not have heard that theright way, so I got to learn
this way.
So this is the way I know howto learn.
And it's a harsh way to learnhow to maneuver.
But everybody learn different,I think if you would have told
me.
Anyway, I still would have beenlike no.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Exactly so when you say that I'm like, oh, I relate
to that on a whole nother level,because I know I'm the same way
, I can hear somebody trying toguide me into, you know, these
steps that you need to take inorder to make it work.
But it's like in that moment,you know, you just I think it's
excitement too.
You know, on top of being likeambitious, I think you're
excited, you just ready to seethose results too, and it's like

(28:23):
I don't want to wait, I want tosee them today, you know.
So, that's that's.
I heavily relate to that, forsure, because I'm learning today
to stop doing it.
You know like, listen to thesepeople with experience, you know
that can guide you so that youdon't be burnt out.
Because I feel like burntburnout do come from the
inexperience.

(28:44):
And then it's like you had tofail to learn it.
And then it's like, damn, now Igotta go back and and figure it
out again.
I don't have the energy.
So now I'm burnt out, I don't,I don't have the energy, you
know.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
So oh, dusty and burnt out.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, that's true yeah, yeah, seriously, for
real.
So you were a barber beforesocial media blew up and now,
after it's become such a bigdeal, what's the biggest
difference you notice in theindustry?
You know pre and post socialmedia for you.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Pre-social media things were a lot more organic,
easier going, less stressful.
Business was so much better.
It was a better time inbusiness before social media.
You got to pay so muchattention to social media.
Take away from the key the mainingredient.
Take away from the key.
What's the key?
The main ingredient.
Take away from the key.
What's the key.
You got to focus on what'd yousay.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
What's the key?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
The key is to serve the client.
So, whatever your service-basedbusiness or your product or
whatever whatever your businessis right Like you got to put so
much energy towards social mediaand marketing that way that, uh
, it robs you of your, yourhappiness, it robs you of of, it
robs you of a lot of things,Cause it's, it's, it's uh, uh,

(30:12):
it's like, it's like, it's likenever ending, Don't stop.
Social media is 24 hours.
You feel like you always got tobe posting.
You always got, you always gotto be on it.
You know, word of mouth is likeyou know it.
You know it's an easier way toto get your, your business, out
there in the natural, in thenatural way, and it flows, it
comes out naturally.
So it doesn't seem exhaustingwhen, when all I got to do is

(30:35):
make sure that this product isalways consistent, or my service
I just got to make sure myservices is always consistent
and and I'm good I'm, you knowI'm putting all my focus there.
Now, like a lot of that focushave to go on advertising with
social media, because it takes alot out of you.
Even if you have a social mediateam, nobody's going to sit in

(30:57):
your business or nobody,nobody's going to sit there for
hours and and and and know howto give organic reach to
potential clients.
So you got to kind of still beinvolved in it, even if you are
hiring a social media staff.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, because they need to be able to, you know,
create a vision.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
You got to communicate with somebody, right
?

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, you got to create the vision that you have,
you know, for your marketingpurpose, on social media for
sure.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
And then if you're a small business entrepreneur,
you're doing that yourself rightso that means you're seeing all
of the.
You're seeing it not move.
You're seeing you paying forposting ads but something that
you might not have chose for.
The algorithm didn't work.
Whatever this, whatever shit.
They might have just changedyesterday, right because, that's
how much the change is up soyeah it's like you always got to

(31:44):
be on it and always learning it.
Yeah, and and, and.
You know, the only way for youto really not be involved in it
in is if you have a lot ofmarketing dollars like a lot of
money to where you hire in topnotch a marketing team that you
don't really have to do nothingright and that's not most of
small businesses, right?
They don't have that yeah can'tafford it it's too much.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
You know it costs a lot of money.
I don't know if you everchecked out the prices of these
social media content managers.
They're not cheap.
Because I have, because Ididn't want my hands in it, no
more.
Because, for all the reasonsthat you mentioned, you know,
like you said, it did take awaythose relationships that you
have with your clients, likesitting behind a chair, talking,

(32:30):
just catching up about whatever, whatever's going on on reality
TV, whatever you want to talkabout.
It did take that away Becausenow we got the cameras in their
face.
You know, and like when we weretalking earlier you mentioned
they're not models.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:44):

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, now you want to take pictures to show your work
on social media.
Now the client feel obligatedto take the picture.
Now they're not going to tellyou no.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Maybe a certain age group, a younger age group, they
might not have a problem withit.
But when you start growing withyour clients and you get to
that 28, 30, you know they'renot.
They're just trying to come gettheir hair cut and and and go.
Or they're trying to get theirservice and go like, oh yo, take
a picture for me every time,like spinning them around,
you're trying to find the rightlighting.
Now you're a photographer.

(33:19):
Now you got, you got camerasset up on your station.
It's just a mess.
You got all these gopros.
You know you're trying to.
You're trying to do it it is amess.
You're staying up late trying tofigure out photography now,
yeah you're in a late night likereally trying to figure this
out yeah on top of trying totrying to figure out advertising

(33:41):
, on top of staying on top ofthe latest trends for haircuts
or whatever.
Whatever the main ingredient isright.
Yeah, you know, you still gotto attend to the main ingredient
too, whether, like I said,that's a product or that's a
service or whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Like that shit still need attention.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
It sure does.
It needs the most attention.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, just because you've been in business for X
amount of years don't mean thatyou could put that on autopilot,
because the main chick alwaysneed the attention.
Yo, oh, wait, a minute Wait aminute the main chick.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
So the side chicks are like the photography, the
videography.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
In the way, in the way, all of it.
Get rid of all of the sidechicks.
Go old school and just payattention to the main Jane.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Ooh, that analogy is everything I freaking love.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
That, Would you those are the sides.
You think you're doingsomething with, the side you
think you, you know, you thinkyou it looked like you busy and
you maneuvering and you and youdoing it, but you really just
making the making a big mess,that's what you're doing.
You're just making a big mess.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Right, that's what you're doing.
You're just making a big mess,right, especially when your
hands got to be involved in allof it.
You know, yeah, if you couldlike you mentioned, if you could
hire these people to take likeyou hire a photographer, hire a
videographer y'all do y'all job.
Social media content managersy'all do y'all job and all I
want to do is cut and talk to myclient, but it's just so much

(35:03):
money.
And then, when you try toincorporate that into your
business, then you got to go upon your prices.
And then, when you go up onyour prices, the client is is
expecting that value back, notunderstanding you balancing all
these hats.
You're not getting paid for allthese hats and you know, I
think that also leads to burnout.

(35:25):
You know, because it's like I'mdoing all these, and you want
them to be models it's just toomuch you know and you bouncing
all these different jobs, that'sthat I feel like that also
leads to burnout yeah, socialmedia is the devil it's the
devil social media, the devil'swork.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I think everybody should go old school.
Yeah, but everything around theboard right you know, yeah
everything around the board,like not just, not just even
talking about business, justslow it down like that should
just make things move way toofast yeah you could get a hold
of anybody like anybody likeyeah everybody's opinion is
shown for everybody the world,for the world to see.

(36:03):
It's just, it's a big mindtrick, man.
It's hard Like it's tough.
Yeah, people really strugglingwith it, mm-hmm, people really
struggling with it, like.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, they are With the like comparing.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Comparing themselves.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, mm-hmm, they are.
I I always say hopefully oneday they create like specific
days and hours where you canhave access and you just can't
after that.
I feel like that will also help, which is, people are so
invested in social media nowthat they don't socialize in

(36:36):
person.
Like you see it everywhere,people's phones are I mean
people's heads are down in theirphones.
Nobody's talking to no one,unless you are a person that
really genuinely still enjoyhuman interaction outside of the
Internet.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
And that's got to go both ways, like you got to hope
the other person feel the sameway too.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Why is this person?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
talking to me, so I guess I don't have to ask you do
you prefer the way things arenow versus back then?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
yeah, no, like social media isn't going nowhere, like
it's never going, like you said, it's never going to have them
break down days, you're notgoing to wake up and it's just
not going to not work.
Like it's too big of a businessnow too much money get drawn to
it and it's like a bigdistraction capture like.
You know that's what we.
You know that's like a wholeother subject, but it's a

(37:31):
distraction Like.
It's like it was, like peoplewould say about TVs, you know so
it's not going nowhere, youknow.
So I feel like you just got tolearn how to like, monitor it
and take things the old way.
Take some things the old way asmuch as you can Like, don't do
so much advertising on it ordon't show so much of your

(37:52):
personal life, but still havefun with it.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Like look at it sometime when you got downtime
and you need to laugh, like gocheck out your favorite comedian
.
You know what I'm saying, buttry not to be too much.
Don't give it too much.
And it's easy to give too muchbecause that's how much it grab
you.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, that shit is good, it is.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
It's a big thing.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
You'll be in a rabbit hole.
You'll go down a rabbit holeliterally just scrolling, just
scrolling and scrolling.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
At one point do you feel like it helped your
business in any kind of way ornot.
In the beginning, I felt likeit drew a lot of attention
because I was into it more sothan learning it, which took me
away from clients.
It took me away from becoming abetter barber, a better stylist
but I paid a lot of attentionto it in the beginning, when it

(38:44):
first came out I want to saymaybe 2010, when businesses
really started using Instagramfor marketing.
Right start using um instagram,uh, you know for for marketing,
right.
But yeah, it definitely drewattention to, to what I was
having going on in my barbershopbecause I could just show, like
I would just show live footage,just live live stories and and

(39:05):
just regular people just walkingin and out, just yeah just just
showing what's going on likethe day-to-day operation
day-to-day and that that was.
That was fun to me.
That was cool.
I seen a return on that.
You know a lot of people wascoming to check it out because
it was there.
It was showing like livefootage, right yeah.
Okay so yeah, in the beginningI did see like it being helpful,

(39:28):
but that was before.
Everybody kind of, you know,everybody became a business
owner after a while.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
They did.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
So it just kind of flooded it.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
It flooded it Social media created it Like thinking,
having people thinking that theycan be business owners and
entrepreneurs.
They were pushing it.
They still push it.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, pretty heavy, heavily Heavy.
Yeah, they do Heavy.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
At what point did it feel like I don't want to do
social media no more, Becauseyou said in the beginning you
did enjoy it.
So what led to this isaffecting my business in ways
that not could potentially hurtyour business, but it's keeping
you away from that organic, youknow, reach that you want with

(40:12):
your clients.
Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Do I remember which part what you're saying Like?

Speaker 1 (40:18):
when that shift happened, from you enjoying it
to like this is consuming mytime.
I'm not able to be who I wasbefore and that person I really
enjoyed in my business.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, I think the more, the more um in advance
with with businesses, especiallyespecially after COVID, oh so
you.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
you enjoyed it for quite some time then, because
COVID was in 2020 and youstarted like in 2010.
Yeah, I want to say 2017, 2018,.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
I started feeling like it was getting a little
weird.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Okay, you know.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
I felt like in order for you to get certain views or
certain push, you needed to beartificial.
You needed to have more of anartificial look to your haircuts
.
I felt like you needed to bemore animated in your videos.
You kind of needed to be more ofan actor and just showing like

(41:13):
regular day-to-day and regularhaircuts it wasn't enough right
so they needed kind of like uh,they needed more, more attention
, because it was like the more,the more you start seeing how
the algorithm worked, the moreyou post, the more you.
So now I gotta keep posting,and now what I have to post has
to be uh, out of this worldlooking.
It can't just be a regularhaircut, it has to be out of
this world looking.

(41:34):
It can't just be a regularhaircut, it has to be an
enhanced haircut.
Or it has to be heavilyphotoshopped, it has to look a
certain way for the views to getacross and for a certain amount
of people.
So once I felt like the robotwas playing a game for me, I was
like I'm out, I can't do thisshit.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
I can't figure this shit out.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
So if you could have figured it out, do you feel like
you would have kept at it withsocial media?

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, but like you said, after a while you get
burnt out.
If that's all you're doing,that's fine.
You could probably figure itout.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
But yeah, with all the other hats.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, but I was trying to do so many other
things that I couldn't keep upwith it, and that was probably
like 2019, like right before thevid.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Gotcha, what inspired you?
To open a barber college.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Just having a hard time finding barbers and
training them in my barbershop.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
So when they?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
would come there.
I would have to train them inthe shop and I was just like man
, this ain't cool, I got totrain you on the floor while I
got clients walking in.
So it was just like I want tobe able to have a facility where
I train barbers whether theycome to me or not, it'll just be
good barbers out there in thetown so just to put out good
barbers and when I say goodbarbers, it's barbers that like

(42:48):
we community people, we notrappers, we not you know what
I'm saying Like we not like amovie star or like all of this,
like we don't look like that.
We community men, like we outhere, we, you know, sometimes,
coaches, you know what I'msaying?
Yeah, so I wanted to kind ofdevelop that mindset, like just
kind of reproduce myself justover and over and over again.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, for sure, yeah, do you feel as though also
along with.
So that was also a demand thatwas pulling you away from your
clients as well.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
So when you opened the barber college, it was at
the first location.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I turned the first barbershop into a barber school.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Right, okay, and so then Fourth into a barber school
, right, okay, and so then.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Fourth year.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yeah, but then you opened.
I think didn't it open up rightnext to Genesis 2?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
No.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
No.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
No, so I made the first shop of barber school
after the fourth year.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
And then I moved to a bigger location because we was
having more barbers andeventually the students from the
barber school was going tograduate.
So I went and got a biggerlocation and that's the
Minnieville spot, probably like10 minutes away from my original
location.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Right.
I don't know why I thought thebarber college was in there too.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
In where?
Oh, in the bigger barbershop.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yes, yeah, so eventually it shifted right.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Eventually, yeah, it shifted I did a lot of shifting
around.
Which is okay so eventually Imade that a barbershop slash,
barber school yes, and turnedthe turn, the barber shop, the
original shop, back into a shopyes, yeah, okay, I just wanted
to make sure I had that right.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, so is there a reason why you decided to bring
those barbers to Genesis 2 andthen transform Genesis 1 back
into a barber?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
uh, I mean, yeah, back into just the barber shop,
you know, versus the barbercollege yeah, I wanted to sell
my first shop, like I wanted tostart selling them, you know.
So, eventually, like my, myinitial plan was to just have
the school you know and justdevelop these Genesis barbers,
like that was just my plan.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
And develop these.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Genesis barbers.
After after, after a while,that became my plan okay so yeah
, like I had, I had envisions onselling my, my barber shop to
maybe one of my barbers orwhoever.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, ok, got you.
That makes so much sense OK.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
So I turned the bigger barbershop, I split it,
kept that a barbershop and afterthe school, Can you share what
led to the closures of yourshops in Barber College?
Yeah, I can share it, okay.
So when I decided to close theBarber School the second time, I

(45:42):
built it out in a new location,COVID hit.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
I started it in November and it hit that March
February.
I had my grand opening.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
That's right, because it was a 10 year anniversary it
was a 10 year anniversary In2019.
Yeah, that's right.
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
So COVID kind of messed me up a little bit
because a lot of my barbers theydecided around COVID time which
everybody was doing.
It was just you had a lot oftime on your hands so it kind of
made you like look at otheroptions.
A lot of my barbers like left.
So it kind of affected mybarber school as well because
they they was going hand in handLike I was just I was just like

(46:31):
taking from one to make sureanother one, you know, could
financially be stable to just beup Right.
So there was kind of workinghand in hand together.
So I lost a lot of people, likejust in the barbershop you know,
key barbers.
So you know, covid played a bigrole in just I was going through
a personal situation with myfamily splitting up, a personal

(46:55):
situation with my familysplitting up and just mentally I
wasn't, I was still trying totrying to push through and and
and and, um, and go with what Isaid I was going to do, because
I wrote it down.
I said I was going to do it.
Me just being fucking, you know.
Me just being Omar, right, justwhat does that mean?
like just doing shit, just doingthings, you know, even though I

(47:15):
planned for it and this is whatI want to happen, and I had the
school rolling for like fouryears already, so it ain't like
I didn't know what I was doingand you know, I just felt like I
knew I wasn't well mentally tomake that go.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I didn't have certain members on my team at that time
and I was just trying to doeverything myself.
So, like the four years that Idid have a barber school role,
I'm like I had a good, solidinstructor team.
I had people to help me buildthat.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
So I was still trying to make that, you know, happen
without those key players beingthere, like that's how important
a team is, like you can't dothis shit by yourself, you know.
So yeah, I had to just downsizeyou know yeah.
And that was like probably oneof the toughest things that I
had to do ever in my life.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
You know, was let people go and tell them that.
You know students that joinedit, that believed in me, you
know they seen what I did before.
But you know, like I said, likeI had a team, I had a team then
when I had it going and youknow I had to let a lot of
people go and that shit wasrough, Right.
So it was just a combination ofthe world changing, with COVID
and my personal things going on,financial shit happening, so I

(48:37):
just had to, like, come down tomy original location and I, you
know, kept my original threeguys and just closed and
finished that lease out thereafter probably like in 2020.
Yeah 2022 is when I justfinalized my last barbershop.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
So whenever you let the Barber College and Genesis 2
, whenever you let it close, didit kind of feel like, OK,
finally some burden is lifted,even though, like yeah, it was
good, it was finally a burden islifted.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, yeah, it was definitely that feeling.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
But it was also a sad feeling too.
I had to let potential studentsgo that took a chance with me.
So you know that was tough.
So I couldn't really feel that.
I still had that feeling in mygut, like that uneasy feeling.
Still it wasn't like all theway like I got that shit off my
back, you know.
And now I still got two moreguys that I don't want to

(49:33):
fucking, you know.
You know, tell them that is notlooking good, but I'm still
trying to figure out what I'mdoing with these, with this
situation here in the originalshop.
You know the two guys thatstarted it with me from day one,
you know.
So, yeah, that was a tough asstime.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yeah, I can only imagine Looking back.
Is there anything you wouldhave done differently?
That was a tough ass time.
Yeah, I can only imagine.
Yeah, looking back.
Is there anything you wouldhave done differently?
Yeah, yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Can't even look at me with a straight face.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, I know yeah, but if I had a chance, but if I,
yeah, I mean, if I had a choice.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
I, probably, I probably would do this whole
thing over.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
How.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
You know, I don't know how.
You know, I don't know how, butI probably would like knowing
what I know.
Now, if I could take a littlepiece, like just the patience
piece, it would be completelydifferent, for sure.
So, patience, you feel like, wasprobably the number one reason.
Yes, I was so in a rush to doeverything I don't know.
Like I hope my son take heed to.

(50:30):
Like you know, understandinghow important patience is.
Take heed to.
Like you know, understandinghow important patience is like
being okay with going throughthe process.
It's okay even if it take yousuper long, it's okay, you know.
Well, you know, the sloweststudy wins the race.
Every time like you're tryingto hurry up and get there, bro,
you're gonna burn out yeah, forsure you're gonna make some

(50:50):
mistakes like I hope that youcould come back from them shits.
They're not really bad mistakes.
Yeah, yeah, I would definitelyprobably do it all over again If
I could take a little pieceback with me with my brain, and
that little piece would just bepatience.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah, because when you are speaking about the
journey, it do sound like youwere eager and like excited yeah
, I don't know what I thought.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
I don't know, maybe I thought I was gonna like die
soon or something.
I don't know why I was livinglike that.
Oh my, I'm glad you said thatmaybe that was.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
That was like right, it's like I gotta get this done
before god called me home.
That was me too, like I wasliterally there mentally.
I even posted a facebook statusabout it before we moved to
virgin and I was like my onlydream is just to finally do this
before I leave the earth.
And everybody was like you gotto chill.
That's crazy.

(51:42):
You say that because I'mthinking like it's me, like girl
, you doing too much.
You know for you to say thatI'm like no, for real.
I think that is, for somepeople, what it is.
That's crazy Because I wasdefinitely there.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
I need to chill and let life come to you.
But I don't think you get thatuntil a later age, or you might
see your parents move like thatand that might be how you move.
Like my parents are likeanxiety-driven.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Like it's just anxious.
Was it survival-driven too?
You think so?

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, like oh like we , just you know, we, you know.
Yeah, it came from you knowparents that is just figuring it
out too when they had you.
So they're not moving likesmooth and calm and collective.
Right, you know what I'm sayingLike they moving kind of funny
too Like they moving throughlife.
So you grow up seeing that youwant to control everything.

(52:40):
You know why you feel like youwant to control everything.
You said why?
yeah, because that's what Ithink, that's what I'm, that's
what I, that's what I came from.
Okay, you know.
Now I'm in a different place inlife.
Like I'm, you know, I don'tmove, I don't I'm.
I'm 37 now, like I had to.
It took me this long to feel,to feel like yo.
You know, you got to let thisshit come to you, bro.
You're trying to go and grabeverything.
It's running from you andyou're stressing yourself out.

(53:01):
You're killing yourself tryingto get it.
Just let it come to you.
You show up consistently and dowhat you need to do, and it's
going to come to you every time.
It might take three years, itmight take five, it might take
20.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah, and that's OK.
You know.
I wish people would talk aboutthat more, because I know Sam
Walton is like the owner ofWalmart I think he was 44, you
know, when he opened up hisfirst Walmart.
And when you learn that thesepeople are like, oh, they're not
in their 20s, you know,whenever they finally, you know,

(53:37):
whatever business plan orstructure they have, it's like
they're in their mid-40s.
You know, but you don't reallyknow this stuff.
And you also thinking like, oh,they have a different life than
I do too, which I feel likeit's very valid because they do.
You know, know, but I'mlearning these people don't take
off to their like in theirmid-40s.
You know, hardly ever situationis different yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I'm saying like everybody going through, going
through their journey withdifferent backgrounds yeah for
sure.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Yep, are there any misconceptions or rumors about
the closure you'd like to clearup with the barbers and
community you built inWoodbridge?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Nah, like it probably didn't look good.
So I'm sure there's probablynasty things said, I mean, of
course, but I don't have nothingthat I would want to personally
like clear up.
I would just want to just thankpeople like yo, like thank you
for rocking with me.
You know, thanks.
It was other barber schoolsaround, you know.
So I appreciate people liketaking their chances on me and,

(54:42):
you know, signing up with theschool and really being down
with the movement, because I tryto make it look like a movement
.
It was a movement, so you know Idon't have no, it would just be
a big thank you.
So you know I don't have no, itwould just be a big thank you.
Like even for people thatbarbers that chose to step from
behind the chair to help meinstruct.
You know I can't, I couldn'tcompensate barbers what they

(55:02):
would get compensated to comehelp me with these students.
They just did it out the love.
They just did it out becausethey messed with what was going
on.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Right, they believed in your vision.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
So I?
What was going on?
So right, they believed in yourvision.
Oh yeah, so I mean if there'srumors, let them.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Let them be rumors.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I guess, but yeah for sure.
Yeah, I'm sure that didn't lookgood.
I don't like the way it look,you know do you care about how
it look?
do I care?
Yeah, I care about, I careabout myself and but I I know,
now that I'm in a space, now Iknow that's what needed to
happen, because I wasn't well uphere.
Like I wasn't well up here,like my shit was just I was

(55:40):
running on films, just hopingthat, hoping that like it worked
out, like I didn't have thatdrive, I was just doing it
because I said I was going to doit.
You know that second time around, it wasn't passion driven, it
was just something I felt like Ihad to do because I said I was
going to do it.
I was so, so hurt and just Iwas just in a bad place.

(56:00):
I couldn't, like, I couldn'tmotivate you couldn't motivate
the students how I needed tomotivate them.
I couldn't motivate the team ofinstructors and barbers that I
needed to help me.
I could, I couldn't.
I did as most as I could.
Like I was out of shape.
I was looking crazy.
I didn't like people.
I didn't like pictures beingtaken of me.
You know I didn't like myappearance.
I didn't like the way I lookedin the mirror.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
So it was tough.
Well, maybe it's because youhave been so many things for so
many people, maybe you neededsomebody to be there for you.
Maybe that's you was lookingfor that thing.
You know, because you gave alot, you know, even you know,
yes, you have barbers that stepfrom behind the chair to help
you because they did believe inyour vision, but you still put
out a lot to help the community.
So it's like, well, what areyou getting in return?

(56:45):
And that's going to lead toburnout too.
You know, because, at the endof the day, we doing all this
hard, heavy work, mentally morethan anything, you know you need
somebody to be there for you aswell.
So it could be that too, youknow.
Yeah for sure.
How did it feel having to leteveryone go, especially knowing

(57:07):
that some understood thedecision while others may not
have.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I said it felt terrible, like it felt crazy.
I felt like I knew I needed it.
So I was okay having thoseconversations, but in the dark,
when I was in the shop by myself, I let it out.

(57:35):
Then you know all the sadnesscried yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Like I lived in that shop, like that last year the
lease, like I stayed there.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Like you were living.
That was your home, I wasliving there.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
That was my house before I left Virginia and came
out here.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
So what do you mean that?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
was part of me having to close it too.
My living situation wasn't toogood.
It kind of messed me up.
Closing all that shit down leftme in debt.
I'm still going through a lotwith it, absolutely.
I know I had to change mylocation and that's what I did.
So I'm still regrouping fromthem and post of decisions that
I made.
I'm still trying to likeregroup myself, but I know like

(58:19):
I come first, like, so I know Igot to take care of my shit
first, you know.
So yeah, before I left Virginia, I was staying in the original
barbershop for a year For a year.
Yeah, for a year.
Oh, my goodness, that's why Ihad to let my two guys go so
that you can have a place tostay, and I didn't want to tell

(58:39):
them that because then theywould have just probably made it
that so yo, you could stay.
I don't want to be aninconvenience to anybody you
should have said something youknow.
But I knew I had a spot that Iwas, I was, that was my, that
was my, that was my home, thatwas my baby, you know I'm saying
that was my, that was my, thatwas my home, that was my baby.
Like that was, I stayed thereand I made it, made it do it.
You know I had to do so.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Even outside the inconvenience, and you would
have let one of them know andthey would have offered you know
, you a place to stay.
Do you feel like that couldhave kind of helped, because
they would have still been thereat the barbershop and then you
just needed some temporary timeto just get back on your feet in
order to keep your shop running?
Do you feel like you know ifyou would have done it?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
maybe If I would have asked like to stay at
somebody's spot, what?

Speaker 1 (59:26):
do you mean Like one of the barbers?

Speaker 2 (59:27):
No, I don't think that was enough to kind of keep
that shit going Like that neededto happen.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Like, yeah, that that shit going, like it needed that
needed to happen.
Okay, like, yeah, that neededto happen for all of us.
Like one of the one of my guysgot his own suite like I felt
like that was power move for himyou know, and then one of my
other guys is, you know, workingwith another guy that that he
that he likes working at workingfor.
Like you know, I think itneeded to kind of happen I
wasn't growth, right?
yeah, it needed to happen, eventhough it was you.
It was sad and you know thatwas my baby, but I had to let

(59:55):
something like I let your babygo, you know.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
I let it go yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Everything you were going through?
Did you deal with it on yourown or do you feel like you did
have some support?

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
I had support people that I would talk to, but what
support.
You got to go through shit onyour own Like what is that
venting?

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Yeah, you know, like maybe emotional support, because
you say you had to let it out.
You know, did you cry to somepeople sometimes and talk about
what you went through and didthey offer some you know, any
type of support to help you?
Or you just kept this all toyourself and you wanted to
handle it all on your own?

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
No, I definitely had people to talk to and, you know,
not so much try to support tolike keep it open or nothing
like that.
I think everybody seemed like Ijust I wasn't even looking good
.
So everybody kind of know like,oh, this shit, where are you
down, bro?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
This might be the best option for you to just like
close everything.
So they were supportive andthey did understand that part,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Because they seen how I was not like how you were
nothing like that guy and see, Ididn't see that guy.
You know, I only know you camearound when I was on fire.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
You was oh my gosh like you had like flames just
constantly underneath your feet.
Yeah, yeah, and you were, so Icould tell that was your baby
and you cared about it and younurtured it.
You did whatever you had to doto make it run.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, I had people Talk to, but after a while it's
only so much somebody could doOnly so many times.
You want to keep telling thesame story so many times, even
though it's different people,you want to come around moping
and after a while you got tostart faking the funk and then
you know it becomes a.
It becomes a your natural.
You just forget about it aftera while.
It becomes your natural in thedark Don't nobody want to be

(01:02:01):
around somebody that's lookingall sad all the time and shit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
So you kind of mask it until the masking becomes
part of your personality forthat time that you need to get
over that.
Yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Well, what inspired you to move to Phoenix after all
this?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
It's peaceful here, super peaceful, that's super
peaceful.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
That's what I was headed to california.
I stopped by here so I washeaded to cali.
I got some friends in cali.
I wanted to just start all overwith new career and everything.
I was so frustrated with thebarber industry, with with the
way that I handled shit, I wasjust frustrated with everything
and I stopped here for a fewdays, for three days, and I just
felt a sense of peace, likesuper peaceful it's.

(01:02:35):
It's.
It's a lot of building.
This is desert.
It's a lot of building thatcould be done here.
I just felt like it was a, itwas a new, uh, it was a fresh
slate.
Like it wasn't too fast paced.
I could focus on you knowmyself and what I need to get
right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Phoenix is one of those spots where you know, yeah
, I like it here.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Like you said, the pace is slow, you know, but like
it's so quiet, you know, it'slike walking outside in a
library.
Well, the girl that done mymakeup she was like well, you
know, you come around here onthe weekends.
It's a little different, youknow.
But yeah, I noticed that likepeople are so nice, they're so

(01:03:17):
friendly People are pleasant.
They are so pleasant.
I'm like this is a vibe,especially for like in your
situation.
I think this is a great placeto like, collect, recharge,
regroup, reflect all thosethings, because it gives you
that time and that peace andthat space to do that,

(01:03:39):
especially when you constantlysurround around these people who
are like hi, you know, theyjust thought they like, they
happy to see you or somethingyeah, you feel like you're
needed and welcomed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Yeah for sure, with a smile on your face.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Yeah, when you moved to Phoenix, did you know that
you would eventually get backbehind the chair?
Or you were also thinking,maybe I want to do something
different, make a career change.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
No, I kind of waited until things got really bad, to
where I was almost like didn'thave any, like any resources
left before I made that decision, because I was still I didn't
know what I wanted.
This is the only thing I everdone that shit when I tell
people that like they look at meand be like you never had a job
.
Like no, I never had a job,never.
I did one interview and Ididn't get the job.
It was for timberland outletand that's the only time I even

(01:04:34):
tried to go get a job yeah, whenI was a teenager, but after
that it's been barber school,barber shop, my own business
yeah, for sure I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I don't know where I ain't know where to go.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
It's just like I knew I wanted to do something like
uh, uh, construction wise, but Ididn't know how to get into it.
I don't know how to talk tosomebody about getting into that
.
You know, this is all I know.
I put so much effort into it.
I know this so well that it'sjust like am I really going to
go start a whole new chapter inKorea in my life?

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
It's still kind of figuring out right now, but
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
This is like I had to make a decision and I'm happy
with.
The decision I made was to gogo work in somebody else's shop
like I'm having a great time howdoes it feel?
To be working why?

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
why is it so amazing?

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
well, first of all, I'm happy that somebody let me
work in their shop that I camefrom all the way, virginia.
You know I don't have noclientele here.
I know what that's like havinga barber coming here, so I get
like I felt welcome, like so Ifelt I felt good about that,
like somebody kind of took me,it took me in, they shit but I
know what it's like to be on theothers, I know what it's like
to be a barbershop owner.

(01:05:40):
How long is this dude gonna last?
He coming from all the way overhere.
Who is he?
So, like, I appreciate theopportunity that I have here and
I'm making the most of it youknow so.
I'm just having fun, I'm cool,like I'm just focusing on the
client.
You know I chill with thebarbers.
It's not.
It's not that uh boss, barbertype of relationship.
You know I like having like weall in this together, we here,

(01:06:04):
we gotta spend 10 hours in thisbarbershop together, whether
it's slow or whether it's fast.
You know what I'm saying soyou're enjoying the simplicity I
love the simple shit like Ilove the plain jane.
Simple life right now yeah Idon't think I'll ever go back to
having so many things going onin my life at one time yeah, has
this chapter helped yourediscover anything about your

(01:06:24):
passion for barbering?
Um, yes, it made me rediscoverlike how barbers are to young
boys that come in there withtheir dad, have certain
conversations in the barbershopthat could lead to people
getting job opportunities, justcommunity.
It brought that back for mebecause I kind of got drawn away

(01:06:47):
from that, having all of thoseother situations going on trying
to start a school and trying toopen up other locations, and
you know you kind of get drawnaway from the simple ingredient
the main chick, you just forgetabout it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, it's simple.
It's so peaceful and not to saythat it's easy but you're able
to like, really be intentionaland focus and be present.
You know it's really hard tojuggle so many hats.
It is.
You know, and when you focus onone thing, you'd be surprised
how quickly it can elevate andgrow.
You know, instead of likehaving your hands in multiple

(01:07:24):
things, that's when it's goingto slow down somewhere.
You know, that's even myproblem.
You know, we talked about this.
You know, like where Stiles was, like you need to find one
thing, nurture that and youbecome the all-in for that one
thing, instead of juggling allthese different things.
Even if you can do it, don't doit.
You know, don't do it, yep, andI feel like Not even as a hobby

(01:07:47):
.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Just don't do it, just leave it alone.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Leave it alone.
Yeah, the riches are in theniches.
That's her whole.
You know it's not her quote.
You know that she made up, butthat's what she lived by, you
know.
And she was like I'm nottapping.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
The riches are the niches.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
The riches are in the niches, or the niches, oh, yeah
, yeah, so that's a fact.
And not even just, you know, ina monetizing way, like in a
peaceful way.
You know, like from within.
You know because I know peopleto me, whenever they say that
they're talking about money, I'mtalking about it all, not just

(01:08:28):
the money part.
You know, because when I wasfocused on bridal, and bridal
only, I was happy.
I didn't do nothing else.
All I'm gonna do is pull up, doyour hair and leave, you know.
But then when I start, you know, trying to juggle all this
other stuff because and thenclients will influence you too.
Yeah, you have to be carefulwith clients, because they see
all this in you.
You know like, oh, you shoulddo this and you should do that.
And next thing, you know you'retrying it and you doing it and

(01:08:49):
now you're getting away fromthat thing that made them come
to you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yeah, let me ask you a question.
So why didn't you just rockwith the bridles?
If you was finding it, I'mguessing it was paying you well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
And you was happy doing it and it wasn't too much
stress on your back why you feellike you needed to dabble in
other things.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Well, like you, needed to dabble in other things
.
Well, because we moved fromVirginia and Virginia's
clientele is completelydifferent from the Austin market
.
So when I moved to Austin, whenI was trying to build the
bridal clientele in Austin, itwas not like Virginia.
You know, virginia, I feel like.
You know, those people are more, you know, cultured and it
doesn't matter what your skintone is, that if you can do hair
they're gonna book you, youknow.

(01:09:33):
But with me being in austin,it's like oh, you black, can you
even do white hair?
You know?
Or you white, can you do blackhair?
It's, that's a real thing.
I even got x that when I set upas a vendor at a bridal expo
and I didn't get one but onebooking but she didn't book me
right then.
And there her friend convincedher to book me.

(01:09:54):
But when I went to a bridal expoin the DMV I got three times my
money back and I wasted moneyin Austin.
So it's also, the clientele isjust different there.
So I had to be forced to getback behind that chair because I
wasn't going to make no moneyjust doing strictly bridal.
I learned that because theblack community also is very

(01:10:15):
scarce and being that we are nottrusting each other to do each
other's hair.
I'm not booking you, so I wasjust like I guess I'm gonna get
back behind the chair then.
Yeah, because that demand washigher than black women getting
married in Austin.
If they're getting married,it's kind of like in Dallas and
Houston, you know, and they getmarried in Austin too, but it's

(01:10:38):
just on a very small scale,right?
Yeah, so that's why I didn'tstick with bridal.
But I did stick with bridal inVirginia, like I left from
behind my chair and I was justdoing doing bridal and I was
doing great, because I had nooverhead, I didn't have to buy a
lot of supplies.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Winning right there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Yeah, just with no overhead, I'm just showing up
doing the hair and I had, youknow, got in contact with a
stylist who would let me use herstudio or her space so I can do
the trials, because I needed aspace for that.
So that's why I ended up backbehind that chair, because I

(01:11:17):
wasn't making no money.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Nobody was booking.
Do you think you'll own a shopor a barber college again one
day?

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
I don't know, I don't know Maybe, but right now I'm
just having so much fun workingin somebody else's barbershop
and and paying attention to,like the small details, like
just the people that come inthere yeah and getting back into
loving to cut hair and shitlike that.
So I mean, if something comesup, sure I'll take an

(01:11:49):
opportunity.
I'm still crazy.
Like I mean, if something comesup, sure.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
I'll take an opportunity.
I'm still crazy like that'sthat entrepreneurial spirit in
you, I'm still a fucking psychobut yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
I mean, I'm not gonna go towards that like now.
I know, like you know you gottachill out, you know you gotta
chill on making these impulsivemoves on yourself.
But like if somebody wanted towant to join in with me and do
something, maybe I might, youknow, but having so much
pressure on myself, I think Ilearned my my lesson the hard
way yeah, yeah, in a good way,though good hard way.

(01:12:20):
It's bittersweet that's theonly way I could learn.
So I mean, I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
I know it's and that's so bad because I'm.
I just feel like I'm the sameway.
I'm gonna have to learn throughjust messing it up, versus
somebody saying, hey, don't dothis because of X, y and Z.
It's like no, I got to see formyself which is so silly, you
know, but I feel like a lot ofentrepreneurs are built like
that, though you know, we'revery risky and we can make some

(01:12:47):
impulsive decisions.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Entrepreneur that shit is a hard life.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
It should just be in the dictionary hard life
Entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
What the definition?
Just hard life.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
I said hard life.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Especially if you're going to be like we talked about
earlier, if you're going to bethe first generation
entrepreneur.
It is hard.
You know.
You got to stay committed, yougot to stay dedicated, you got
to remember your why in orderfor you to stay there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
you know a business owner is completely different
than an entrepreneur absolutelyyes.
I feel like business ownersdon't have nearly the amount of
responsibility that anentrepreneur does mentally
business owners usually comeinto it with with funding so
they don't have to have certainissues happen for them.
You know you got to write themout of network and money.

(01:13:38):
Then you know you can run yourbusiness different.
But entrepreneurs like it's,like this, shit's just nasty man
, it's not attractive.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
It's nasty, it's not attractive.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
I agree, not attractive, it's just a is a
hard life yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Yeah, that's why I'm making different decisions.
But after all you've achieved,how do you hope to be remembered
in the barbering community?

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
um, I hope to be remembered as just like somebody
that just took the took, tookrisk and tried to figure it out
and tried to make, try to make abarber and an experience for
people.
You know, when they come to abarbershop, I try to make it an
experience.
That's what I want people.
I want them to feel like.
You know, I used to live inVirginia but when I stepped in
Genesis I really felt like I wasin New York.

(01:14:27):
You know, I really felt like Iwas or I felt.
You know I really felt like Iwas or I felt this, or you know
I listened.
I remember this song because Iremember my son getting his
haircut, his first haircut.
So every time this song come on, you know I remember they had
the barbecue.
I remember who was on the grillbecause they you know what I'm
saying Like that's.
I want them to remembereverything that you know we did
in our community.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I'm going to tell you what I remember since you
bringing up music.
When it comes to what people,what you wanted people to
remember.
I remember the OG Project withFabulous, wasn't it called the
OG Project?

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
And I remember J Cole .
Oh gosh, I'm so mad at myself.
Forest Hills Drive, that's whatI remember, yeah, so when you
said I'm so mad at myself,Forest Hills Drive.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Yeah, that's what I remember.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Yeah.
So when you said that, I'm like, yeah, you did that for sure,
because those are the two albumsI remember the most, you know
being played whenever they firstdropped, and yeah, so you did
that for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
Yeah, I just hope they remember like a good
barbershop experience.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
It was.
It was great, like theyremember, like a good barbershop
experience it was.
It was great.
Like I said, it was a movement,it was an era, it was like a
vibe.
Even the clients, like everyone, wanted a piece of Genesis, and
maybe not always in the bestways either.
You know, I feel like maybemost were in good ways, but
maybe some not, you know, but itwas like a sanctuary.

(01:15:52):
You know what?
I feel like maybe most were ingood ways, but maybe some not,
you know, but it was like a,like a sanctuary.
You know what I'm saying?
Like I'm gonna go here and I'ma chill, I'm still do what I
love to do, but I just I feelgood, I feel safe here.
You know that's it felt safe.
That's what it was.
It felt safe Like feel likehome.
You know, I knew each other.
That's what it was.
It felt safe, like, feel likehome you know, I knew each other
.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
Yeah, See each other in the grocery store and it's
like yo, you go to the shop.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Yeah, yeah, no the t-shirts.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Like when I made a t-shirts, like I was surprised
at how many clients would buy at-shirt from a barbershop.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Yeah that shit, because it's like wearing it's
like wearing um, it's likeyou're a part of a organization,
kind of like.
Like I say you had anorganization.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
You go to the shop.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
You go to the shop too I remember I wore it one day
and it was like what is that?
Like she was asking me what itwas and I think I was in
maryland and I wore it was.
It was probably like in 2019,actually, when I was visiting.
I wore it and she was askingabout the business and stuff,
yeah, and I was like you shouldcheck it out.
She was like I have a son, Imight have to check it out.

(01:16:56):
You know, yeah, I feel like we.
How have the successes andchallenges shaped you as a
person?
Do you want to answer that?
Do you feel like you alreadyanswered that?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
How has the the?

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
successes and challenges.
Like you know, your success,and also some of the setbacks,
shaped you as a person.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Yeah, well, you know it shaped me, it made me realize
how important patience was andyou know it definitely made me a
person that just learned how toslow things down a little bit.
Take things, you know, slow inand try to enjoy the process
instead of being pissed off atthe process because you're going
through the process and it'snot taking you to as fast as you

(01:17:39):
want to get there, Like youknow what I'm saying.
So it was just like now at this, what everything I've been
through.
I understand how importantevery small phases and don't get
frustrated and try to skip.
Don't cheat, because once youanything, if you cheat at
anything, that shit gonna comeback and it's going it's going
to tear you up.
Yeah, it's just, it's not goodyeah, it's not good to cheat and

(01:18:00):
try to skip the process.
Just go through the process ofeverything.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Man yeah, but in that moment you don't know that you
are cheating.
It's like I'm gonna do thisreal quick and now.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
You know what you're doing.
I don't know because you'reanxious, and you know.
You know what you're doingbecause the intent is there for
you to get there faster but doyou feel like that's really
cheating?

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
and you just and it's not just- cheating the system.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Yeah, you're cheating the system because this is a
system.
A system has, but in thatmoment.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
did you know it was a system?
So I guess that's what I'masking did you know in those
moments that you were cheatingand this is just what you have
learned, when you had anopportunity to go back and
reflect Because I don't think soLike you were moving with?

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
integrity.
You don't know, you just goingoff of adrenaline.
Yeah, you were moving withintegrity.
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
I won't say you cheated the system.
I just I didn't see that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
I can see that that way.
Now I can look back and seethat now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
And not in a negative way.
You just feel like you skippedsome steps, right, yeah, yeah,
because I'm like, no, that's notwhat I saw, that's not what I
experienced with you.
You were moving with integrity,you had a goal and you just
wanted to see it happen.
Yeah, you know, that's what Isaw, that's what I felt.
You know, I didn't feel like itwas.
You were cheating at all.

(01:19:15):
I could tell you were figuringit out along the way because you
were young.
Yeah, you know so.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
I thought things could happen like fast Mm-hmm.
I got kind of twisted and tiedwith like the microwave era type
of situation.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
I feel like everything like a millionaire
could really be like 25 yearsold, Like nah, it's not, it's
not weird, it's not true.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Yeah, it takes some time, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
I mean yeah, that depends with people, that's
inherited certain situations.
So I just knew like, yeah, it'snot my situation.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
So yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
And not most people, honestly.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Yeah, it's not my situation.
So yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
And not most people.
Honestly, yeah, it's not mostpeople's situation.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Yeah, that's true, it's not.
I have noticed most people,what I'm learning.
I notice a lot of people aroundme listen more.
Excuse me, that's for sure.
That's what I've noticed andwhat you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Just you know being back in school, when people
around you listen more Likebeing back in school.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I just see, like, versus when I went to school,
like years ago, it was different.
Like the kids I'm surroundedaround, they are intentional,
they're listening, they have a,they're focused.
You know and I wasn't, I didn'tgrow up around that and I'm
wondering, like even with socialmedia, how are they able to

(01:20:39):
stay so focused like that?
You know, I just I don't know.
I don't know that's what I'mexperiencing, you know.
So, I don't know that's whatI'm experiencing, you know so I
don't know.
If you could speak to yourformer staff or students now,

(01:21:03):
what would you want to say tothem?

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Very broadly yeah, just have fun, keep having fun,
keep having fun.
It's all supposed to be fun.
When it stopped being fun, youeither doing too much and slow
it back down, but just have fun.
Like this is we here to servethe people and, you know, make
people look good and feel good.
We are important, like so.
Don't think that you're notimportant because you're a

(01:21:29):
stylist or a barber or, you know, an aspiring barber, but I
think we do a lot for people.
It might just seem like ahaircut or a hair color or
whatever, but hair is importantand the way that you look, your
image, is important to how youmove in everyday life.
For sure Just have fun, man,just have fun, and thank you for
coming and encountering with me.

(01:21:52):
Thanks for that interaction.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Do you still see yourself as a visionary and if
you do, how are you channelingthat energy today?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Yeah, I'm definitely a visionary.
My vision is just real shortthese days, though.
I'm talking about real short,Like I visualize what I'm doing
for the day.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
No.
Future vision vision no hell.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
No, yeah, put too much stress on me.
Anything could change.
Anybody could just walk intoyour life, or you could walk in
the situation and tomorrow.
So yeah, like, my vision is likeday to day, that's that's as
far as I go with my shit veryslow pace super slow pace, yeah,
yeah, go take a hike, yeah,well you and you feel like the

(01:22:36):
past taught you how to do thatright, yeah having too many
visions, having all these bookswith all of these, this shit
just confusing man, then yougotta include a lot of people
into your vision.
They might move on you knowwhat?
I'm saying so just like you'restressing now.
You can't enjoy thisrelationship because you got
visions for this person thatthey don't even know about yeah

(01:22:57):
you was definitely trying to putthe clippers in my hand yeah, I
had a lot for you.
Yeah, I had a lot for everybodyyeah, you did, you really did.
I think you saw their potential, or our potential Lady barbers,
kill it Like they kill it Likewe talking about like 100 grand
a year being the lowest, likethe pay rate is different for

(01:23:18):
women cutting hair.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Of course you know so , for very obvious reasons.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
So I mean you was there.
I'm going to talk that into you.
I'm going to try to see ifyou're at least interested in
this shit.
I talk that into you.
I'm going to try to see ifyou're at least interested in
this shit.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
I wish I would have listened then, because I would
be highly interested.
It's a great market.
It's a great market like it'sjust yeah, I think so because I
was very new, you know, evenbeing a hairstylist, I had only
been licensed for three yearsand that was my first time
working at your shop like beingconsistently actively working.
So I think I was just tooinvested in nurturing that and I

(01:23:58):
wanted to see what I could dowith that versus like I'm like,
oh, the Clippers, that might bea little bit too much for me
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Yeah, Trying to put I got, I got all this on my plate
.
I'm trying to put more on yourplate.
Trying to put more on this onmy plate.
I'm trying to put more on yourplate.
I'm trying to put more on thisperson's plate.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Look at you projecting.
This is too much.
You meant well, you know myattention.
Yeah, you meant well, you did.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
We had Rocky there, when I seen what one woman could
do in a barbershop.
I was like yo, we gotta figureout a way to make other women
barbers too.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
And Rocky was lit, she was yeah for sure.
Yeah, like today I don't havethe energy, but I would say like
three years ago I would havebeen ready to pick up the
clippers.
You know, just because I feellike I've already served the
time that I wanted to behind thechair as a stylist, and not
forever.

(01:24:51):
Just I feel like I learned whatI wanted to behind the chair as
a stylist, and not forever.
Just I feel like I learned whatI wanted to learn.
I had a solid foundation, butback then I was building the
foundation of even what I wantedto do and I also tried to
balance family life, becausethat was a lot.
So not nearly what you hadgoing on, but it was a lot for

(01:25:12):
me, you know at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
You know everybody had their journey, and it was
hard for you too, I'm sure yeah,it was challenging, for sure
juggle all that and you moved alot, that's a lot yeah like
knowing that if, even if I gohard here, I'm eventually gonna
have to leave so just me,honestly, me having that mindset
of just knowing that this ain'tgoing to be nothing permanent

(01:25:35):
or for a while, it'll probablybe hard for me to pull that
energy out and do as much as youwas doing too, Getting involved
on social media and doing allof that advertising and pumping
and promoting and shit that youwas doing too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot yeah it's tough.
But when that like, I just feellike you'll know, you know, if
you ever decide to get back onsocial media, because you know,
like when we close, that'susually what I ask my guests
Like, how can my listeners findyou?
Like, if you want, you canstill go to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Genesis Barbers, you'll see everything I'm
talking about Like.
That's why I go back to theGenesis Barbers page on IG and I
just look I haven't touched it.
Everything is still there, likeall of the events that we did.
Everything my whole process ison IG for Genesis Barbers.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Okay, good, because I was wondering, because I know
we've had our social media talksoutside this podcast and I'm
like do he want?

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
people to know yeah, go check Genesis' page.
I'm sure somebody could pullsomething from it, or it's just
interesting to see the communitywhat we was doing.
That shit was tight man.
Yeah, it sure was I puttogether a lot of events and
people was able to get togetherand make things happen.
Like I said, certain jobopportunities, certain people

(01:26:51):
got married, that met fromcoming to the shop had kids.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
Oh my gosh, you know what I?

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
mean.
So it's cool, that's shit coolto go back and look at and be
like oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
I forgot that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
I forgot we did that, you know, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
I'm glad you still got the page up so you can
reflect.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Yeah, that you know.
So, yeah, I'm glad you stillgot the page up so you can
reflect.
Yeah, you know, I thought aboutripping everything down, but
I'm glad I didn't.
I just kept everything fromlike.
It probably go back to like 202012 maybe dang.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
You had to be really tapped into your emotions in a
very intellectual way to notlike just delete it all you know
and make an impulsive decisionto do that would have been a
crazy one yeah, what words ofadvice would you give a 22 year
old that wanted to be like anaspiring entrepreneur or barber?
What, what advice would yougive them?

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
uh, just take your time with it and, um, understand
that, uh, there's a process.
I keep saying that, understandthat there's a process.
I keep saying that, understandthat there's a process and
understand what you're askingfor at the same time, because
it's extremely hard trying topull pieces together when you're

(01:28:05):
so young and you're stilldeveloping yourself, you're
still developing your mind.
So I would just say, like, justtake your time and understand
that entrepreneurship is a toughroute.
So just take your time, havesome patience with yourself and

(01:28:27):
even if entrepreneurship, yougive it a try.
And even if you donentrepreneurship, you give it a
try.
Even if you don't, there'sother options out there besides
entrepreneurship like collegemilitary there's other options,
or you know, there's way morethings.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Yeah, I was going to say so because I know you said
that you would have completedyour high school.
You know career of course butwhat would have been the next
step after high school, sincemaybe you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
If I could communicate the way that I know
how to communicate now and Ithink kids and younger people
know how to communicate and gettheir point across a lot better,
because you're more heard now.
You've got to kind of hearpeople now.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
You know.
So I feel like if you strugglewith school, it's okay.
It might, they might have aslower pace for you, but don't
give up on school.
Right, you know.
Understand like school is aprocess, like that's one of the
things that you need to.
That's something you need toexperience right.
There's high school or evengoing to college.
Give it a try.
College is not Like going tothe military.

(01:29:29):
There's plenty of opportunitiesthat you could benefit from at
a young age joining the military, you know.
So I just feel like looking intoother things.
Don't just be so set on howentrepreneurial look.
It might look like you could gotake the day off or take a
vacation, but that's not true.
Sometimes you're working harderand you're making less money

(01:29:52):
than the people that work foryou.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
Or that work with you .
So it's not always nice andsometimes when you're an
entrepreneur and you've got tomake that choice, you don't have
no other choice.
Intellectually smart, assomebody else that that might
have to make that choice to gobe entrepreneurial and go do
whatever they need to do to tohave a career for themselves,

(01:30:16):
you might be somebody that'ssuper smart.
Use that.
Don't.
Don't.
Don't get distracted by howsocial media is making things
look, because it's all.
It's all artificial.
It's not, not real.
Nobody's showing the hard parton camera, because that shit is
ugly, it's not attractive.
So just slow pace andunderstand.

(01:30:37):
It's going to be a grind andit's super hard.
It's just a lot ofentrepreneurs.
A lot of them don't even makeover $50,000 a year.
So just you know you have to bereally passionate about what
you're doing and sometimes itmight be the only choice.
The entrepreneur that did that,that might have been his only
choice, right?

(01:30:58):
Like don't out.
I just want to tell people,don't rule out college.
Like that should be the mainfocus.
You get so much out of that.
Forget all of that, forget allof that.
You're going to end up withdebt.
You're going to have debtregardless.
You're American, you live here.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
I know that's right this is what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
Right, you know what I mean.
So one way or another, you'regoing to have debt.
So like, don't rule out college, the military.
I feel like entrepreneurshipshould be probably like the
third or fourth route that youneed to take that route, and
that's why the entrepreneuriallane is kind of clogged up now,
because you got intellectualpeople just saying it look, fly

(01:31:38):
to be an entrepreneur onInstagram because it look like
you could be famous or you knowpeople, you know how it is.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
I draw you in.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
But you smart, you take you a good test taker.
I know you, yeah, you know whatI'm saying.
Like you can remember certainthings that you could just look
at something and remember it.
You know, a week, a week later,you could still remember that
that's a gift, that's your gift,right?
This other person that mighthave took the chance that
started up his own whateverbusiness that's, that might be

(01:32:07):
all he can do right, yeah, youknow I'm saying I feel like the
lane is way too clogged up withjust everybody flooding it from
social media, yep.
But just take your time tounderstand, give yourself time
to understand what's for you andcommunicate.
If you feel like school is hardfor you, let somebody know so
they could twist and turn itmaybe, so it could work for you.

(01:32:30):
Absolutely Because there'sother options besides you
learning one way.
Now you know so.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
Especially today.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
Yeah, yeah, they have so many options today Don't
give up on school.
Like just don't give up, youmight not be, I wasn't good at
it, I'm still not good at itLike it took me a year to read a
book sometime.

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
You know what I'm saying, saying is it because,
like you're trying to retain or?

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
trying to retain it.
Yeah, I'm reading the samechapter over and over again
because I forgot what the shitwas about.
Right, like also.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
But or is it also you not being consistent, on top of
trying to also retain what youread?

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
it could be that too.
Yeah, I don't like words.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm aphysical person.
I hate looking at words I likeI like action I like I like
visuals.
Like when I look at A bunch ofwords, like, yeah, I'm like fuck
.
Before I even start reading,I'm like, damn, yeah, I gotta
read all that.
Alright, let's get to it.
It's gonna take me hours.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
I just jumped to the conclusion I'd be like child.
Let me get on to the bottom.
Let's see what y'all Talkingabout.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
You know they can look at that and read all of
that and understand and canrecite it word for word.
Sometimes we just read one time.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
Yeah.
You know, some good advice.
Great advice actually, because,especially the way how the
world is moving, I don't thinkpeople are really thinking about
joining the military.
I don't think they eventhinking about college, because
everybody just want to be onsocial media creating content
and making money from socialmedia content.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
I know people living really well at like 35 and
retired.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
Oh, I do too.
Living really well, I do too.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
And retired from one job.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
One thing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
And everything else is just on autopilot for their
life, yep, and it's an easierlife.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
A more slower paced life.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
Yeah, I'm witnessing it, you know, I'm witnessing it
right now, you know, and justbeing consistent with that one
thing, like what we were talkingabout originally, instead of
trying to tap into so manythings, just stick with that one
thing and make that thing work.
You know, it's not supposed tobe this many businesses.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
I feel like it's not supposed to be this many.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Because who are going to be the employers?
You know, know, I mean theemployees.
If you have that manybusinesses, you know, so for
sure.
Yeah, you have anything elseyou want to add?

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
no, but thanks for coming to, to um, to uh, phoenix
like this is cool.
Thanks for having us, thanksfor having me, and it's good
talking to you, good talking andcatching up with you yeah,
thank you for the invite.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Yeah, I'm hungry.
Now you ready to go eat?
yeah, of course yeah, show me,phoenix, let's go eat, let's go
get some grub I'm hungry.
Thank you for tuning in andhearing about this incredible
journey of reinvention andgrowth.
Whether you're an entrepreneuror someone looking to find your
own path, we hope today'sconversation inspired you to
embrace change and keep pushingforward.

(01:35:11):
If you enjoyed this episode,make sure to like, subscribe and
share with anyone who needs alittle encouragement.
Stay tuned for more storiesthat remind us all that
reinvention isn't just apossibility.
It's a powerful path movingforward.

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