August 17, 2025 • 61 mins
Watch on YouTube!
Nia Ford returns to unpack the deep, quiet ways texturism affects Black women's relationship with their hair, from childhood experiences to adult self-acceptance. We explore how external criticism and family dynamics shape our perception of beauty, particularly for those with kinky, coily textures. Nia shares how her childhood love for big hair shifted after hearing classmates with looser textures praised for having “good hair,” and we discuss the role family members play in either perpetuating or challenging texturism, including how parents with different hair textures approach their children’s hair. She rejects the concept of “bad hair” entirely, favoring the idea of “healthy” versus “unhealthy” hair, and addresses how shrinkage often causes people to underestimate both the length and beauty of type 4 hair. We also explore the importance of finding products that work specifically for your hair type rather than following trends, reframing hair care from being a “chore” to an act of self-love and acceptance, and why giving your hair a name (like Tabitha Brown’s “Donna”) can foster a more loving relationship with your natural texture. Finally, we examine the mixed impact of social media on texturism and natural hair acceptance..
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kinetra (00:03):
There's a certain kind of silence that follows you when
the people who are supposed toaffirm you are the same ones who
criticize the very way you grow.
This episode is for everylittle black girl who sat in
between someone's legs whiletheir coils were tugged, sighed
at or called too much.
Today I'm joined by Nia Ford,louisiana raised like me, and
someone who knows firsthand whatit feels like to carry the
(00:24):
weight of texturism, not onlyfrom strangers but from home.
We're unpacking the deep, quietways.
We've been taught that onlycertain textures deserve praise
and that kinky, coily hair mustearn its beauty through length,
manipulation or invisibility.
This conversation goes beyondcurl patterns.
We're talking about shame,shrinkage, hair envy and the
hard work of unlearning.
(00:45):
So whenever or wherever you arenatural, relaxed, locked,
stretch or in a bunnet, justknow you're safe here.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart.
Today we have Nia Ford of IBless Faces Artistry joining us
for a second time.
If you haven't already, makesure you check out her first
(01:05):
episode.
It's in season two, episodenine, and it's sitting at 113
downloads.
Come on now.
Yes, so obviously people lovewhat she got to say.
There we go.
So it's information that youneed to hear, so make sure you
check that out.
I'll tag that in the show notes.
Welcome to the show, nia, howare you doing?
I am good girl.
(01:26):
Yeah that's good.
Nia (01:27):
Good to see you, I know right, it's been a minute.
It's been a minute.
I don't think we've seen.
We haven't seen each other anythis year, so no, yeah, it's
been like over a year.
Kinetra (01:37):
I think the last time we saw each other was like
January 2024.
Uh-huh, I think so well, wegotta do something about that
yeah, we've been trying to plan,but the plans are not planning.
Nia (01:49):
Okay, they're not making it out of the chat.
They are not making it out ofthe chat, it's because our
schedules.
It's because of our schedulesthat's the main reason
intentionally just pick a day,take the day off and just go
yeah yeah, absolutely for sure,I'll do something fun.
Kinetra (02:04):
Yeah, girl, I'm loving this look.
I love this look.
I love the glasses.
I just and the jelly beans.
That was the first thing Inoticed.
I'm like, yes, I love this.
You taking me back, unlockingchildhood memories, as we should
, as we should yes, I'm here forthat, I'm here for that
thousand percent.
Yes, alright, girl, do you haveanything you want to say before
(02:28):
we get started with our firstquestion, or you just ready to
roll on into it?
Nia (02:31):
I think I'm ready to roll into it because I know when we
last we kind of it kind of wasalready touched on this subject,
but now we can kind of deep,like do a Absolutely Ready to
like dive in.
I want to dive in.
Kinetra (02:46):
Who was that?
Nia (02:47):
Trey Songz.
It was Trey Songz, girl Of allpeople.
Kinetra (02:51):
Oh Lord, that's another topic.
Yeah, another day, right?
Do you recall how you perceivedyour hair and your environment?
You know when you were a child,before the projection was
displayed amongst your familymembers I love big hair when I
was a kid.
Nia (03:09):
I don't tame it, blow it out.
Let me wear big like I havealways loved big hair.
I still love big hair.
I just loved big hair.
So I was not too fond of thepressing comb.
Really, mm-mm, mm-mm.
I did not want straight hair,oh wow.
I did not want straight hair.
(03:31):
Until comments.
You know, when you starthearing things as a kid, throw
me out.
Kinetra (03:36):
Yeah, I love that.
So how old were you at thistime, you know, when you were
actually, you know, being ableto like, being able to like
consciously see, like your hairbeing big, it's all throwed out,
and how old were you wheneverthe projection started and then
you started noticing, I guess Idon't know if the projection
actually, you know, played apart in how you did start
(04:00):
perceiving your hair after that?
Nia (04:03):
um, for first, let's start with the question how I, how old
um?
My brain does not compute thatway.
I cannot recall anything withnumerical numbers.
Okay, um, that's, I don't know.
It's weird.
I just, I just, it's not weird.
Kinetra (04:18):
It's just not you, yeah , I can tell you.
Nia (04:19):
You can recall like elementary, there we go, yeah,
yeah.
So like pre-k, kinder, um, Iwon't name drop um there.
So, like the very first time Ium noticed because I mean it was
just me and my sister, we grewup together so, like you know,
(04:41):
my and my here people say mymama had good hair, right or
whatever, um, but then, like ourage group, our peer group, so
we started going to school,there was this one girl and I
just thought like she was sopretty to me and she had long,
like her hair was long for ablack girl.
And then you would hear like,oh, she got pretty hair, oh she
has good hair.
And then that's when I was justlike, oh, like you know,
(05:04):
shrinkage is is real with this,when you're a type four girl,
like shrinkage is so real.
And that's when I was like OK,that's when I was like, ok,
maybe I do want the hot comb,you know, maybe I do want it
like stretched out, becauseeverybody's saying this about
her hair.
Like this is, you know, I wantmy hair to look good.
Kinetra (05:23):
Was her hair straightened at the time, or was
it?
Did it defy gravity at all?
Or was it in its natural stateAt that age?
Nia (05:31):
I don't even know, I don't know, it didn't seem relaxed.
It may have been likeblow-dried out really well, and
I don't think that skin color issynonymous to texture, but
sometimes it does play a part.
And she was a lighter, likelighter complexion.
She was like really light skin.
(05:52):
Um, her mama was too, and so itcould be that you know genetics
and so forth, so of course itis linked to genetics.
Kinetra (06:02):
I mean your hair texture definitely come from DNA
, it does you know?
So she was wearing her hairmore blown out, so it was more
stretched for sure.
So in those moments, that'swhen you started to kind of
visualize your hair may notbeing as appealing to you.
Yep, so that actually happenedoutside our household before the
(06:24):
projection came from inside thehousehold.
Ok, so that would you say, thatthat was more like a fluff.
I mean a fluff, a selfprojection.
Nia (06:32):
Possibly it could have been .
I can agree to that.
I think when you're a child,you don't realize that's what
that is.
It's just that when you hearyour peers or you see something
that's different and people willtalk about it in a positive
light, um, and that's not likethey come in and so like, like a
lot of her praises came off,how pretty she was because of
(06:54):
her, like, how light-skinned shewas and her hair and um, like
the teachers would say howbeautiful her hair was and oh,
you got some good hair.
Your hair is just so pretty.
Yeah, your mama, like those typeof conversations and
academically I did well, so Iwas praised for being on the
honor roll, like, uh,interacting well with my peers
(07:14):
and elementary like getting allthe little pick, pick, the pick,
pride things and whatever wegot or whatever.
So like the praises weredifferent.
Um, so I was just like, well,they're that comment on her
appearance.
Like you know, as a kid youkind of were like, well, I kind
of want that too.
Right, she used to like do,like you know, when you do
(07:34):
little kids hair and you wearthose little knocker balls I
don't know what y'all call them.
Kinetra (07:38):
I call them knocker balls.
You know, we both fromLouisiana, so it's probably the
same terminology.
Yeah, knocker balls, knockerballs.
Nia (07:43):
Yes, so whenever she'd wear her ponytails she'd wear like
three or four ponytails but shewould have twists and her twists
would be long and poofy andthey would be like so thick.
I know Her little knocker ballsat the base and then at the
ends and I just thought that wasso gorgeous.
Kinetra (07:57):
Oh yeah, you mentioned that your mom had quotequote
good hair.
So what did her hair like?
What did it look like?
Nia (08:05):
My mama's hair was a little bit longer than bra strap
length.
Okay, like super long.
Well, I guess it's long for ablack woman.
Why?
Kinetra (08:14):
do you say that it's long for a black woman?
Nia (08:16):
That's a great question.
Kinetra (08:18):
Yeah.
Nia (08:18):
In our community.
If it don't go past like yourshoulder length, we don't
consider it long.
Anything that's in the neckarea is considered short.
So it's more common for blackwomen, in your opinion, to have
hair residing in that space onlyaround the neck?
No, that's not more common.
I just think that's how wecategorize it, or at least
(08:40):
that's how I hear it categorized, so maybe the language just
needs to be tweaked.
Yeah.
Kinetra (08:49):
I think that we need to do a better job of unlearning
things.
Yes, we do yeah.
Nia (08:51):
Yeah, I mean, it's just long.
You know her hair is long.
Let me not say forever her hairis long.
Her hair is long, amen yeah, Ilove that.
Kinetra (08:57):
Yeah, let's correct it.
Nia (08:58):
Let's correct that, yeah um , but she's like in the type a
family.
Kinetra (09:04):
Oh, wow, so it's mostly straight.
Your mom's hair More wavy thanyeah, more wavy Like a loose
wavy, mm-hmm, okay.
And then, growing up inLouisiana, that is deemed as
good hair, the good hair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's deemedas the good hair.
Nia (09:18):
Yeah, my grandmother's hair is like more straight, her
mom's is like more and I thinkmaybe she I don't know I'm
thinking she's to relax her hair, but even when she relaxed it
it gave um, if you know anythingabout like the creole people
and all that like it gave, likethat like mulatto hair texture.
Kinetra (09:34):
No, baby, okay, because I know you more in the south of
louisiana.
So that's why I was wonderingis she creole?
Nia (09:41):
no, them folks from the north.
My daddy's side is uh, they're,they're how you said them,
folks from the north they are,they are, they're from the north
, they're um, they're fromchicago, um, the midwest, okay,
uh, yeah.
But even even mygreat-grandmother was, uh,
(10:02):
chocolate, but had beautiful,like you, just just bone
straight really pretty hair.
Um, that's how it's like.
I know that we try to say so,we try to link skin tone to
texture, but it's not synonymous, but we do.
Kinetra (10:16):
I mean yeah, we do, we do we do and it's.
Nia (10:18):
It's gonna take some, some unlearning and a lot of
self-correcting, because whenyou've gone your whole life with
that language, it makes it alittle like you kind of catch
yourself in how you speak aboutit.
Kinetra (10:30):
Yeah, you internalize it for sure.
Nia (10:32):
Yeah, yeah A thousand percent?
Kinetra (10:34):
Uh-huh, you sure do.
So the next question isbasically like was there ever a
time you felt your texture madeyou less than so?
Now I want to just go back andreiterate this question and take
it back to the little girl.
So at that time, did it makeyour texture feel less than oh,
(10:55):
because before it didn't yeah,no, it did right, um yeah yeah,
a thousand percent.
Nia (10:57):
A thousand percent, so what ?
Kinetra (10:59):
you did.
You went home, looked in themirror like I don't like my hair
, like what happened?
Nia (11:02):
well, we wore a lot of braids okay, braids with like
beads or with yes, and I thinkthat, yes, my mama would braid
our hair, do the plaits and thenbead and shell it.
Yeah, and I love that and tothis day I still I like I loved
it as a girl and I love it as awoman, as a grown woman okay, me
too um, and so it was like,well, I may not be able to, and
(11:30):
I think that's when I kind oflike pushed my mama to always
put beads on my hair, like don't, I don't want the puffs, I
don't want if you want to seesome length, and you know them
puffs gonna defy gravity and Iwant to hear.
I want to hear all the thenoises so what you mean?
Kinetra (11:46):
the noises from the beads.
You know like I love, oh, youlove hearing the sound of the
bees.
Me too, I did.
Yeah, did you ever catch anybacklash in school like was it
too noisy?
Nia (11:56):
not too noisy.
They just didn't like like uh,not to, I don't know.
But then that's a whole notherthing, because when you start
demonizing things that areculturally appropriate for our
hair type and the sense of alittle black girl can't wear
that Right, you know that'sproblematic, absolutely.
That is extremely problematic,because we used to do a lot of
reds and I'm just like I meanthey're cool or whatever.
(12:17):
But it's all about the swingtime with the beads and the
shells.
Yeah, time with the bees andthe shells, yeah, yeah.
And my mama used to wear herhair like that too.
She would do plaits and like,also bead her hair and put the
shells on the end yeah, so I waslike that's so pretty like
that's what I want it's sodecorative right, yeah, for sure
um?
Kinetra (12:38):
did you ever feel like your hair made you stand out in
the wrong way, as a child or oreven through an ever period as
an adult, let's see.
Nia (12:51):
So I'm on my third or fourth natural hair journey.
Kinetra (12:55):
I know because we were relaxed a year ago.
Yeah, literally for like twomonths and it was beautiful, it
was beautiful, and then you wentright back.
I did.
Nia (13:04):
I did.
Kinetra (13:09):
I miss my girls, okay, um so being type four or 4c or
whatever you want to categorizeit, let's, let's, let's talk
about because I know you knowmore in depth about your hair
texture, because you mentionedhigh density on the last podcast
yeah, so the people only liketo listen.
Yes, tell them like you havehigh density hair too.
Nia (13:25):
Yes, I am type four, considered 4C, super kinky,
coily, high density but finehair.
Kinetra (13:34):
Yes, love that yeah.
Nia (13:36):
Yeah, and so essentially what that means is I have a lot
of hair strands, but it doesn'ttake much to get it straight, in
the sense of like heat, and Ihave to be very careful of um
it's.
It's delicate, and I don't wantto say fragile, because fragile
means to me it's like it'sequates to unhealthy super
healthy but super fragile.
So I have to handle my coilsand curls with care, right?
(13:58):
Um, I can't just be doing, Ican't be super rough with it, I
forget um causing damage,breakage, all that, whatever.
Um.
So on my fourth natural hairjourney, um, because I mean we
kind of talked about the familyperspective as a little girl,
but I kind of want to talk aboutthis from from the aspect of a,
(14:19):
like, grown woman right.
I literally had a non-blackperson tell me that they think
they they view my natural hairis beautiful, but I like they
feel like I look better withlonger, straight hair.
That's problematic because I,for one, I didn't ask you this,
it was unsolicited.
And for two, again, my hair isnot your business.
(14:43):
Like, how I choose to show upand express my express myself in
how I choose to wear my hair isnone of your business.
So, yeah, that was that.
Yeah, but how I feel about itnow, like I absolutely have
embraced it, like some peopleare just going to feel however
they feel and that's theirproblem, not mine.
At the end of the day, this isthe hair God gave me.
(15:05):
This is the hair that I've beenblessed with and to me, it's
extremely beautiful.
So when I don't put product init, baby, it looks like just
black cotton on my head.
When I do put product in it, Iget these beautiful defined
coils, and every time people arelike I love your hair, what did
you do to it?
Kinetra (15:25):
like I love your hair.
What did you do to it did?
Nia (15:27):
you coil it?
Did you um sponge it?
I'm like this is my curl?
this is it exactly, and I thinkthat there's not enough
representation on platforms toshow what the hair can look like
when it's properly styled withproduct.
You know, I agree, yeah, and sofor that people be like oh,
it's just and I hate the termnappy, oh, it's just nappy, and
my sister says it all the timechild.
(15:48):
And I'll be like no, you justdon't know what you're doing.
She was like why is it not likeyours?
And I'm like we literally havethe same curl pattern.
Literally, me and her have thesame curl pattern.
I'm just like I'm trying toteach you how to do this and
she's like I just can't get it.
I was like okay, well, when weget together I'll show
absolutely yeah, even if y'allhave to facetime yeah anything
(16:09):
to help her, you know, on thatjourney, because it is not, uh,
the easiest.
Kinetra (16:13):
Whenever you are learning, you know, and also
unlearning the emotionalattachments that all in you know
, in all the unhealthy ways.
You know, when she, when she'sstill relating to it as nappy oh
, you know, I still got someinternal work to do, you know,
instead of my big age of 32 isbig sister.
Nia (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised, don't say that.
Kinetra (16:33):
Don't say that.
Yeah, I'm not surprised,because you know my years behind
the chair, you'd be surprised.
You know, some are older, stilltrying to unlearn those
terminologies that wereconnected with our hair texture
in order to embrace what itreally is I want to speak to
that because let's be a thousandpercent honest.
Nia (16:53):
Um, I mean, we go back to the laws that require black
women to cover their hairbecause their hair was deemed as
beautiful.
But you know, like in theslavery area and all of that, if
you go over to the motherlandor come from, they're not using
that type of language and theirhair is thick, baby, it's thick,
(17:16):
okay.
And they see the beauty intheir hair and they do all the
things with their hair and soforth, and it's like really,
it's really celebrated overthere, absolutely yeah.
So we have to decolonize the waywe view kinky coily hair.
Kinetra (17:31):
Yes, absolutely that's what it is.
It's a deep, deep compressionthat we have to address.
Yeah, I feel like we have towork internally before we can
even celebrate the external orthe aesthetic of it.
You know, sometimes you canlearn just from learning how to
(17:53):
do your hair.
Yeah, sometimes it can be assimple.
As I finally learned how to domy hair, I know what to do with
it.
So now we have arrived.
But for others, sometimesyou're going to have to reach
deep down.
Deep down and get into the rootcause of why are we here.
Yeah, it's a lot of work, it'sa lot of work.
Nia (18:14):
It's a lot of work, but we are making strides.
Kinetra (18:18):
Yeah, we are.
How did the adults around youtalk about hair textures?
Was it a language of love or alanguage of labor?
And oh, it's so unmanageable.
And you know all the thingsthat go on when we sit in
between you know our familymembers legs and beat your head
still, and all of them, oh mygosh, that's a great question.
Nia (18:37):
So as a child, oh, my mama hated doing her hair did.
Kinetra (18:41):
She hate doing it because it was a lot, or I think
it was a lot she did not knowhow to do it I think it's a
combination of both.
Nia (18:47):
I think because our hair texture was not like her, so she
wasn't familiar oh, that's umso my, my aunt would blow dry
her hair out a lot and then,like we would get like the
plaits and stuff, um, but I justwhen you're not, when you have
children that are not, um, inthe same hair category pattern,
texture, feel or it is, you knowit takes some getting used to.
(19:10):
My grandmother on my mama'sside was very much so, um, she
was a hot comb junkie oh, sheloved hot, she would press our
hair so much.
I think it was just easy.
It was so much um easy for herto manage it when we used to
stay with her through in thesummers, um.
So, with that being said, uh, Ijust think my mama just just
(19:34):
had a hard time, like that ladyrelaxed my hair twice in like
one week, whoa the relaxerdidn't take the first.
it didn't didn't take so many,it didn't take.
It didn't make it straight likeit relaxed the curl but it
didn't take.
It didn't make it straight Likeit relaxed the curl, but it
didn't straighten my hair.
But that's the point of therelaxer.
Yes, we waited like a day ortwo.
I remember this.
We waited like a day or two andthen, and then she re-relaxed
(19:57):
it.
Kinetra (19:57):
Yeah.
Nia (19:58):
And Did your hair break?
Kinetra (20:01):
Or do you don't remember?
Nia (20:03):
I don't think it did.
I don't think it did, I don'tthink it did, I don't know.
But yeah, I honestly don'tthink my hair type was meant for
relaxers.
To be honest, I just think itthrived in its natural state, as
it should, as it should, butyeah, no.
So yeah, we did it twice in oneweek and you know, because she
was, you know, like it justdidn't take and all of that and
(20:25):
so forth.
So, yeah, so we went down thatAvenue for a while and even with
the relaxed hair, I remembergoing to the beautician high.
We were in middle school.
I remember going to thebeautician and I want Afropos,
like I'm sitting in your chair.
I'm sitting in your chair toget a relaxer, but you're about
to make me faux Afropos.
She would, um, roll my hairwith, like those super small
(20:47):
rollers yeah, the plastic onesjust to get the curl, and then
she would slick my hair up forme to have two afro puts and,
realistically, we could havejust cut all this hair off and
grew it back out to be naturaland I could have naturally had
my afro.
So that's how I was.
Like, I've always loved big airpuffs.
Kinetra (21:03):
I have always loved them you just unlocking a memory
, keep going.
Nia (21:08):
I'm gonna talk about it, but keep going yes and so, um,
it's crazy, you know, I justalways went, I just wanted, like
the curls, like I just wantedthe curls all the time yeah, I
remember, um, watching the spicegirls and scary spice.
Kinetra (21:23):
I used to love her hair and I was like I want hair like
scary spice, and at that time Iwas getting relaxers too, but
not knowing the same thing likeyou, all you have to do is just
stop relaxing your hair, cut itoff and you will have big hair,
you know.
And so what I would do is, um,go get a twist out, a flat twist
though and she would take itdown, but I'm like it still
(21:43):
don't have the volume that I'mlooking for, right and and.
so, even as a grown woman, I didnot understand until I which is
weird for me I didn'tunderstand until I went to
cosmetology school Like girl yougot to cut this relaxed stuff
off in order to get that bighair, because I started so young
getting the relaxers, so Ididn't, I didn't, I just didn't
put two and two together, youknow.
(22:04):
But yeahall was just like thattoo, like, oh, the big hair,
like, all right, give me that,chaka khan, give me, give me
that.
It was like I, you know, Iappreciated the straight, just
for the manageability purposes,you know, it didn't take a lot
to do it.
But I also didn't know what wason the other side of natural
hair.
Nia (22:24):
I just knew I love the aesthetic of it, you know oh
yeah, man, that makes me thinkabout, um, the fact that our
hair would be pressed andstraightened when it came to
special occasions, easter mostly, baby, that bang with the pink
roller.
Kinetra (22:40):
yes, omg, those are the good days, though.
I actually did enjoy getting myhair pressed, but only because
I knew it could go back.
You know, yeah, I did.
I didn't enjoy the process, butI did enjoy like wearing it,
you know, straight every now andagain, because it made it
(23:02):
easier for my grandmother tocomb my hair, and when it was in
its natural state she knew whatshe was doing.
I just didn't like how shecombed it and it looked better
to me when she combed it when itwas straight.
So that was my reason forliking it more straight, because
she could comb it better.
But my mama could do either or.
So if my mama was not around, Idefinitely prefer for my hair
(23:23):
to be straight.
Nia (23:24):
Don't hot comb it, baby.
I remember putting them teacups on your ears, so we didn't
get burnt Dang, we just had tohold out.
My grandma used to give us teacups, so if she did you would
hear it.
No, baby, I used to fear thehot comb.
Let's be honest.
Kinetra (23:38):
Oh yeah, that's why I said I didn't enjoy the process,
I just enjoyed the after effect.
Yeah, yeah, was there a momentwhere?
Nia (23:50):
you internalized the idea that your hair was a burden.
Sure, when I tried this beingnatural the third time, so let
me say this um, in my 20s I cutit off.
Okay, so when I was 18, I cutall my hair off and then and it
was relaxed at the time- whenyou cut it all off.
And then I was like, okay, I'mgonna go natural.
But then like I was slappingdot on it like lift and rake so
(24:10):
at the same time, like theintegrity of the curls, aren't?
they ain't integrized?
That's not even a real word,but we know what you're saying
yes.
So, like we care what you, Ididn't, I didn't fully grasp,
like, what my hair looked likewithout all the manipulation,
all the chemicals, right so, andthen then we went through that
phase and went through thatphase and again, since it's
(24:33):
being bleached, it's a littlebit more manageable because it's
processed.
When it's processed, baby, it'slike it's laid and dyed and
fried dyed, laid to the side,all the things, all the things.
So, like I, I lit it on red,blue, purple, all the colors you
think of.
I was like, okay, cool, allright.
And then it got to the pointwhere I was like, ooh, I want a
taper fade.
I did that for like two years,every two weeks, getting a cut
(24:57):
and getting color.
Yeah, all right, let's go pink,let's go green, let's go
whatever, whatever.
So I had an allergic reactionto the last time I had my hair
colored and it was like it wasgreen dye and it just made my
scalp.
You're so bad, um, and so, uh,I was like you know what, I'm
(25:19):
just gonna let this grow out.
You know, um, let's see, let'sjust see what this looks like.
So I let it grow out and thenthat's when it was like the
burden, because I didn't knowwhat.
I was doing, I was determinednot to put any color in it.
I was.
I told myself that I wantedthis growth journey to be a
(25:40):
reflection of my personal growthjourney, like how.
I took care of myself.
So, um, yeah, just I wanted tomirror that and it was hard it
was like what was some of thestruggles I?
Didn't know what to do with it.
Kinetra (25:53):
Like I'm, like we, I don't know okay you didn't
consult with a professionalbefore you just went on, since
you were you getting yourprofessionally colored at that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so, uh, thatsame person.
You didn't consult with thembefore you into the journey?
Nia (26:07):
No, they weren't really doing natural hair, okay, mm-mm,
mm-mm.
And so one of my friends at thetime she might still be a
licensed cosmetologist, but shewas also going to become an
instructor so she helped menavigate that journey with
(26:27):
figuring out what to do with it.
She was like, oh, you got to dois this?
And she was like here, trythese and all this, because,
baby, it got to the point Iremember I was trying to do.
It was in that funky stage.
Now, when you do the big job,there is a funky stage where
it's like not short enough towhere what you used to do works,
but not long enough for whatyou want to do work.
(26:48):
And so, like the styles that Idesire to want to do to my hair,
we weren't, we weren't there.
And then if I was trying to doanything that I was doing when
it was like not even a full inchlong it's, it's surpassed that
length, so now that's notworking.
So she sat me down and took thetime to like show me how to
define my curls and um and soforth.
(27:12):
I think I brought her up in thelast episode, but shout out to
shanisha newbie, because, yeah,she, she definitely helped me
with with that, and so would yousay that it was a funky stage
maybe it was, but she actuallytaught you how to work with it.
Kinetra (27:25):
So would you still classify it as a funky stage
Just because it's not reachingthe potential hairstyle that you
wanted you?
know, you hear what I'm saying,girl, yes, so it's like we can
classify it as a funky stage.
But is it a funky stage whensomeone has taught you what to
do with it?
At this stage, maybe it's justnot reaching, you know, that
(27:48):
particular aesthetic or thatlook that you are aiming for.
You know in that moment,whatever the goal was for the
hairstyle at the time, yeah, youknow.
So would you say it's a funkystage?
And I'm asking this because alot of people say this about
locks.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they say like oh, locks,have this ugly stage and I'm
like is it an ugly stage, or youjust don't know what to do with
(28:08):
it.
Nia (28:08):
That's a great you know well, when you put it that way,
I would say no it, it is atransition stage yeah, it's just
a transition it's a transition.
Yeah, yeah, I love that rightnow I'm in my transition stage,
like now.
I know what to do with it.
Baby, let's slap that gel, andjust you know.
Kinetra (28:27):
And and I love it.
Nia (28:28):
Thank you, yeah, I'm just like okay, cool, like we're not
quite at the four, we're notquite four inches, but we're not
dead, stopped at three, so wecan't get braids just yet, but
we're in a stage where we canstill do something that's
presentable, notable, but to meI think it's pretty.
Like that's still pretty, thatstill makes me feel feminine.
(28:49):
Um, I don't look like no littleboy, yeah you don't have a
little boy face I don't know,sometimes I wake up in the
morning.
I'll be like my husband reallyloved me, because what is this?
Kinetra (29:01):
well, maybe he see beyond the external, which is
what we want and need anyway,you know.
Nia (29:08):
Because I be like Jesus.
Kinetra (29:10):
Yeah.
Nia (29:10):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So well, you know, I just taketime with it and it's just like
to me.
It's like me loving on myselfin a way I did not know that was
possible when I sit at themirror like, okay, let's define
these curls.
I know it's going to take about45, 50 minutes.
Kinetra (29:33):
But when I'm done with it and I'm always like, oh my
god, my hair is so pretty likethis and you have that hair that
tricks you.
You never know how long it is,you will never know how long it
is until you take a dryer to it.
You be like, my goodness, likewhere did the length come from?
Yeah, because the hair strandsare so fine, so there's no
weight, so they're able toshrink and they shrink, they do.
Yeah, and then I'm telling youI've had so many, you know,
(29:54):
clients sit in my chair, even asa professional, and I don't
know how long their hair isuntil I'm blow drying.
I'm like I did not know.
Nia (30:01):
Wait a minute.
I didn't charge accordinglyBecause, baby, why?
We at a foot had a.
Kinetra (30:04):
I don't charge according to length anyway, but
you know it's.
I really find it fascinating,you know, and so interesting,
you know, for it to be able todo so many different things.
Yeah, the versatility isendless.
You never know what you'regonna get with high density,
fine, coily hair.
You never know.
You never know it's full ofsurprises it matches my
(30:27):
personality so well.
Nia (30:29):
It do I feel like God knew what he was doing.
He was like you have thispersonality that does it.
You need to hear that match,that.
Kinetra (30:34):
Boom, yeah you so versatile.
Do you remember the first timeyou realized your hair was being
judged by others or outside ofyourself?
You know, do you ever?
Do you remember that?
Nia (30:47):
Yeah, definitely others or outside of yourself, you know,
do you ever?
Do you remember that?
Yeah, definitely.
Um, we talked about it in thelast episode, um, when my aunt
made a comment about my hairbeing looking like a bird.
This because it was just a bigfro.
She's like you can't go at melooking nowhere with your head
looking like a bird that youdidn't put up in a ponytail or
something that's interesting tome because they grew up in the
fro era, so whenever they don'tcelebrate, it's really
(31:10):
interesting.
Kinetra (31:10):
I'm like this is nothing new for you, it's new
for me, you know.
Nia (31:14):
Yeah and she has locks.
But I think like herperspective on it has also
changed.
Like I mean, how old maybe shewill?
She had to be like in her 30sor something like that.
Kinetra (31:23):
So you know, like, what does she say about your hair
now?
Nia (31:28):
uh, we don't talk about my hair much good, um, no, when we
said we talk about other things,hair is the last thing on the
menu now.
Um, occasionally I may, youknow, bring up something about
her locks, because they used tobe so long and she started them
herself.
Oh wow, an amazing job withthem.
And um, she's just like they'rejust heavy so she ended up
(31:50):
cutting them off.
But yeah, we don't really.
We don't really discuss hair.
The only person I in my familythat I discuss her with is my
daddy.
Kinetra (31:59):
Oh, lord, is that his sister?
Oh, it's your mom.
Miss my mom.
She had texture like your mom.
No, oh, oh, wow, no.
So hers was more curly, morekinky, more.
Nia (32:10):
I don't know.
Kinetra (32:11):
Because she always had locks.
Nia (32:13):
My entire life, yes, every baby picture of her holding me.
She's had them, so I have noclue what her is, but you know,
even like her little baby hairin the back, it's not as tight
as mine.
Okay so, yeah, so, no baby hairin the back.
Kinetra (32:29):
Yeah, it's not, it's not as tight as mine, okay, so,
um, yeah, so, no, okay.
And so you and your dad, y'alldo have hair conversations.
We do have, like how, like tellme some conversations that you
and daddy have my, mybald-headed daddy.
Nia (32:43):
Yes, so he will be like what we doing to my hair, like
he said he claims ownership.
And he was just like what wedoing to my hair, like he claims
ownership.
And he was just like, yeah,that's the way my hair used to
be, yeah.
Kinetra (32:52):
And he always your hair .
In reference to his hair, he'ssaying your hair is his hair,
gotcha.
Nia (32:58):
Maybe this hair on my head belonged to that man.
According to my daddy, you gotthe same type of hair.
He was like then do you blow itout and make it a fro?
Oh, I used to think that was sopretty.
He would always say when he wasyounger he would do that.
So he would tell me how he usedto style.
He said because he bald now.
I do remember you saying thisabout your dad, yes.
So he's very, he's very much so.
Yeah, anytime, I do this, whatwe doing to it today?
Kinetra (33:24):
Yeah, I don't know.
It's good that you did have afamily member there constantly
reassuring you, especially as adad.
Yes, you know.
Yeah, to let you know, likeyour hair is good hair, it is
acceptable hair.
I do want to ask you a questionwhat do you define as bad hair?
Nia (33:42):
Like somebody has bad hair, I don't, you don't't, even if
it's unhealthy that's just whatit is unhealthy okay yeah, like
um, I think we need to stopputting our hair in boxes period
good versus bad.
Kinetra (33:57):
There's unhealthy and there's healthy hair period.
That's the end of theconversation.
Nia (34:01):
It's the end of the sentence.
I love that.
Um, we like legit, need to juststop doing that because, uh,
it's, it's anti-black, that's,that's all I can say.
It's anti-black in a sense.
Um, we have to be mindful thatour words do carry weight and
that people can't internalizethat and um and so forth.
(34:25):
So, you know, there's nothingwrong with somebody getting
creamy crack, aka a relaxer, oranything like that, or doing,
you know doing, differentstyling methods, but one
person's natural state isn'tbetter than the next, that's
right, amen.
Kinetra (34:43):
So, young girl, have you ever felt like your
shrinkage made peopleunderestimate the beauty,
versatility or health of yourhair?
Oh, absolutely yeah, let's talkabout it.
Nia (34:55):
Oh my gosh, I recently had one of my sister-in-laws ask me.
She's like, well, has your hairever been long?
And I was like I looked at her.
Maybe I'll take my glasses off.
Kinetra (35:04):
I looked at her like this Take them glasses off,
mm-hmm.
Nia (35:08):
And I was like what do you mean?
She was like well, I've alwaysseen your hair short and I was
like babe, shrinkage okay.
Kinetra (35:13):
Shrinkage and also you cut your hair a lot.
Nia (35:16):
I do.
Kinetra (35:22):
You have not even ever given your hair an opportunity
to even reach a quote-unquotecertain length.
You cut it a lot, lot actually.
Well, I guess like what peoplewould consider long.
You know, like that, thatconversation we was having
earlier, you know what I feellike.
Well, from what I've known fromyou.
You know, I've always seen it.
You know, uh, you know you wentthrough the.
You got a pixie when yourelaxed it, but it was.
Nia (35:42):
But believe me you, it was actually quite.
It was like hitting like righthere, yeah, when I relaxed it.
So still around that, thatlength you know, yeah, so, um,
but in a natural state, likeregardless, I kid you not, the
longer my hair gets, it's justgoing to look thicker, but it's
going to be this length in itsnatural state.
Yeah and.
I'm okay with it, like I finallyI finally come to terms with
(36:04):
that and that's great.
But I have a video that at somepoint I think I may edit and
post.
I have no idea, but I shot itand I did a review video of the
Revlon blow dryer brush thing.
I don't know what it was, butanyway, my hair was just out to
here and I was just like youneed to do it so she can see it.
(36:25):
Yeah, no, I showed her thatvideo and I was just like you
need to do it so she can see it.
Yeah, no, I showed her thatvideo and I was like so long,
long wear, I mean short wear.
Yeah, I was just like, no, myhair.
Kinetra (36:31):
How did that conversation even get brought up
, girl, let's, let's not, let'snot, let's not.
Look at me being nosy and beingcurious.
We can talk about this offcamera.
Okay, I'm talking about thatoff camera.
Okay, got you All right, let'smove on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have you ever posted a photowhere you felt beautiful and
(36:57):
confident in your tightertexture and it didn't get the
same love as when you do postyour videos wearing your wigs
and units?
Nia (37:02):
Um, I was about to lie and say all the time.
But that's not true.
That's not true at all, becausepost-Pixie, I did a few videos
on Instagram and people werelike, oh my God, I love your
hair and like this was like meputting gel in it and I actually
it was way shorter than thisand so I kind of sponged it to,
(37:24):
kind of like help with the curl,yeah.
And people was like, oh, like Iabsolutely love this.
Um, I love this a lot, likethis is so cute, and I'm just
like, yeah, crazy enough, thisis how it was before I went
pixie.
Oh, y'all ain't shown no lovethen, but I, right now, I wonder
what that was.
Kinetra (37:40):
Do you have a different audience?
Do you think you've gained morefollowers?
And you know, maybe you areattracting that audience?
This is on facebook andinstagram.
Well, you know, maybe you areattracting that audience.
Is this on?
Nia (37:48):
Facebook or Instagram, both , you know they go on both.
Okay, but so it's comments onboth.
However, I think it's the videoquality because oh, the video
quality yeah, so I was going tosay so.
Facebook has let me know thatthey're pushing my videos out
more because I have betterquality videos now.
Kinetra (38:06):
Good so that could be.
Nia (38:07):
You know that could play a part.
I mean, there are people thatfollow me.
You know, people that see me,that engage with me, interact
with me online and in person.
Kinetra (38:14):
Okay, All right.
Nia (38:17):
So we don't know, shan, I don't know.
Kinetra (38:19):
Yeah.
So, you know, because yourunits do look really good, yeah,
make them, girl, they lookreally good.
Yeah, make them, girl, theylook really good.
So that's why I had to stickthat question in there.
I was curious to know, like, um, because I like your hair in
its natural state and I also do,like, how you, you know, build
and create your unit.
So I was like I have to ask herthis because, yeah, I don't
(38:39):
know.
You know, yeah, girl.
And then also just to see wherepeople's minds are when it
comes to natural hair opposing,opposed to wearing hair
extensions.
I want to know, like what youraudience, you know, what are
they gravitating to more like?
Is it your hair or is it it oris it the units?
Nia (38:56):
I think it's, it's, it's a double-edged sword.
There is one unit in particularmy little short wave bob yes,
yes, indeed, I already knew yes,yeah, she gets a lot of love
online.
People are always like wheredid you get it?
I'm like I made it.
Kinetra (39:12):
I made it.
Nia (39:14):
I have a little peanut head courtesy of my daddy, and none
of the wigs in the industry fitmy head Like never, so one.
I went and took some lessons onhow to make wigs.
But I also have clients whostruggle with alopecia, so when
they sit in my chair so I'm likewe can I also offer.
(39:35):
There's a service for theclients that have alopecia that
want something that they canthrow on, because they also have
had.
They don't want to do all theglue and the adhesive.
So we construct and I say we, we, I'm speaking in existence,
y'all I haven't seen one day.
No, yeah, I'll construct thethe um, the glueless wigs or
whatever, but, yeah, that bob.
(39:56):
And then when I have my naturalhair, so between the bob and
the natural hair, but I alsothink, like as a makeup artist
or as a beauty artist as a whole, I think through the entire
look, um, I I mean, I couldprobably most likely pull off a
full face of glam and naturalhair.
But I don't like a full face ofglam.
When I wear my natural, I likefor it to be softer, um, and to
(40:18):
really capture, like my legitnatural beauty versus like a
full face.
So when I'm going full facethis one, I'm gonna throw izy on
.
That's her name.
No, baby, I just put it inthere.
I'm going to just throw Suzy on, you know.
I think that it does kind ofhelp balance out the look,
because I don't want anything tolook Like when my face, when
(40:39):
it's just bare, I don't want itto look too harsh.
Now I could do a full face ofmakeup with a taper fade and
because it's all about theangles, right, like it's all
about the angles and like howthe edge up looks.
Whatever Design like it, all itgoes.
It just is very seamless, butmy hair is like, it's like fun
and flirty and that's how I wantto be.
(41:00):
I want the whole look to lookso Okay, all right.
Kinetra (41:09):
Yeah, y'all right.
Yeah, so we're shifting over tothe conversation, over to
social media.
Oh, let's talk about this.
Do you think the natural hairmovement has helped us heal from
texturism at all, or do youthink it did otherwise?
Nia (41:18):
um, I think it depends on your algorithm.
I think it depends on youralgorithm.
I think it depends on whoyou're following, because social
media is such a huge platform.
I mean, I love ig because it'slike I built it brick by brick,
so I know what I'm like when Iget on.
What I'm going to see.
Um tiktok, however, is a safarichild.
(41:40):
It is, and um and you, you endup like on the wrong side of
tiktok and you may be hearingthe wrong type of messaging
about your hair um, there isn't,honestly I, because I don't
really tick or talk that often,I barely post over there.
So, uh, is there a reason why Ijust I've it's never grown on me
(42:02):
, that's just never been the.
The app that was is yeah, whatabout YouTube?
Uh, I'm, I don't scroll, I no,I ain't gonna let you know like
every blue moon youtube.
It's never been that big of athing for me.
Kinetra (42:16):
Um well, opposed to posting and scrolling?
Nia (42:19):
I guess no okay, I need to get on youtube more like that's
like that's a goal I highlyrecommend.
Kinetra (42:26):
Um, it's so easy to get subscribers.
I just go live and I may atleast get 16 subscribers every
time I go live and I'm onlythere for like an hour.
That's yeah, and I'm actuallythinking about like leaving
Instagram and TikTok alone andthen focus on on YouTube,
because it's so global it is itis, it is, it is and with you
(42:47):
doing makeup and you could justgo live while just doing the
makeup and it also just I don'tfeel like the people I know are
just watching me that part, soI'm going to do a shameless plug
, but I'm actually in the worksof curating a show for YouTube
when I like on my.
Nia (43:07):
YouTube channel.
Um, so yeah, I'm in the worksof some stuff to actually
address what beauty is like inin our community and how people
view it.
Um, you know, and so I'mexcited excited me too.
Kinetra (43:21):
Make sure you keep me, you know, I will I definitely
informed.
Yes, ma'am, yeah, because Iwould love to follow a show like
this.
Nia (43:28):
Yes, yes yes, yeah, I'm super excited you know to have
those conversations.
We may have you a guest there.
Kinetra (43:32):
Yeah, I would love to be a guest.
You would be sitting in mychair.
Okay, that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's likeinterview.
Nia (43:42):
Oh, I like that, yeah, and just you know, discuss, talk,
all the things, and so, becauseI've just heard a lot with my
clients as a whole and I waslike, oh, there needs to be
something.
So that way we can shift a lotof the narratives and have the
conversations and I'm able topour into the women, that which
I want to and like reach, thetype of women that I want to
(44:03):
reach.
So yeah.
Kinetra (44:04):
I love this.
This is like a self-confidence,you know, also from within too,
because those conversationsthat you have, you go beyond the
surface Even though you'reworking on the surface.
You're going to go beyond thesurface and reach those women in
so many different ways.
Yeah, absolutely, and we needthat.
So, yeah, yeah, that's good.
(44:25):
Do you have a name for the showyet?
If you do, don't say it.
Good, thank you.
Do you have a name for the showyet?
If you do, don't say it.
I'm just curious, do?
Nia (44:32):
you have a name.
Kinetra (44:33):
Maybe, okay, okay, I'm just saying don't say it right
now, because I do believe inkeeping something, oh,
absolutely, absolutely Toyourself yeah.
A thousand percent there, and Iwant you to say it, and then
you haven't launched it.
And somebody else, somebodyelse do it and then yeah, so
don't say it.
I just wanted to know yes or noyeah, yeah, yeah, I have a name
(44:56):
.
Nia (44:56):
However it may, it may change okay, so being flexible
with it yeah, yeah, no, let thelord lead me girl whoo.
Kinetra (45:06):
No, seriously, you have to.
You know, you think you have itall figured out, you think you
got it all laid out in the waythat it need to go and flow
exactly, and then it happens andyou're like this is not the
direction I thought it was taken.
You gotta lead with god.
You have to thousand thousandpercent have you noticed that
(45:27):
some some textures are stillmissing from the hair inspo
pictures on social media?
Nia (45:32):
Oh, absolutely, we're still .
Okay, let me, let's get, I havea whole soapbox about this,
because there are a lot ofpeople that are on social media
that are claiming to have 4Chair.
Like literally, they will saytype 4 or 4C hair and it's not.
And that is misleading.
That is is extremely misleading.
I don't feel there are a few uminfluencers, but the ones that
(45:58):
I see they're not.
They're non-american, do you?
Oh, they're not american.
So, like this one, I follow she.
What about ethnicity?
Kinetra (46:07):
and well they average.
You know you can be anotherethnicity and still have that
kinky textured hair.
Nia (46:13):
Yeah, yeah, but no, I haven't seen.
Oh okay, I haven't seen it.
Why do you?
Kinetra (46:16):
think they want to categorize themselves as 4C.
That's a great question,especially when it's not the
most celebrated texture.
Nia (46:24):
I have no idea.
So in the back of my mind I'mlike, either you have a lot of
heat damage on your hair, buteven like the way their hair
just weighs back up and I'm justlike even as a 4C it wouldn't
look like that, it's a certainlook you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I think too, that the curlchart, it's just, it should have
never happened.
Kinetra (46:44):
They should have never happened.
It's not even real.
You know, we only classified,as you know, based on the
texture, which is not 4c, youknow, it's just relatable, like
you know, like, even when yousay 4c, it's okay to say 4c,
because people know it yeahpeople are just listening, they
know that.
The idea of what that looks like, you know.
(47:05):
But I wish that, um, it's a waythat we could get rid of that
curl chart, curl pattern chartand get down to if it's coily,
curly, wavy, straight, highdensity, low density, medium
density, high porosity, low andmedium porosity, and then that's
when we're gonna really learnwho fits into what and also how
(47:27):
to even take care of your hair.
Nia (47:29):
Yeah, you know, yeah a thousand percent because, again,
as someone who has coily highdensity, fine hair, it's not the
same, and see you know this.
Kinetra (47:39):
Yes, like you know and you know, and I think, like,
even whenever you do start, ifyou ever start talking about
your hair, make sure you start.
Nia (47:47):
Yeah I want in that language.
Kinetra (47:49):
Yeah, I desire to, because I think that's another
reason why these people maythink that they are
quote-unquote 4c, because theydon't, I don't know, I don't
want to hear the channel, solet's talk about that.
You know them categorizingthemselves as 4c and they're not
in, you know, and all thethings that come with it.
I ask you, why do you thinkthey want to be categorized as
(48:12):
4C?
Nia (48:13):
I think that it's just a buzzword.
Kinetra (48:17):
Like a clout chase.
Yeah, to get views.
Nia (48:19):
Yeah, I a thousand percent think it's kind of like well,
see, any feel, any typesituation or whatever, and it's
just a buzzword and people arejust using it as a marketing
tactic and so forth, becausewhen I look at it I've just been
like, nope, me too I've seen itI've seen it, yeah and and so I
had a few, like a few followers.
(48:40):
Now, can I, can I name?
Can I drop a name?
please, okay, yeah, so jackie,aina, I love me some jackie um
jackie.
Is it lavish life jackie?
No, maybe is that on youtube.
That might be what it is.
How does she?
Oh, this is on youtube.
I know I don't know she's onyoutube instagram um.
Kinetra (49:01):
Do she wear her?
Nia (49:02):
hair like colored, is it blonde?
Kinetra (49:04):
yes, and she has like a perfume line yep, yep, she is
lavish, that's lavish, jackie.
Lavishly, jackie, she is thebomb.
Okay, yes, yes.
Nia (49:14):
So Jackie Aina has type four hair and, like she's to me,
has the closest curl pattern tomine.
But she's also colored.
That's why I said the closest,because she does have color and
it's possible that she could beright on the money if she didn't
(49:35):
have color.
But um, she's also, you know,used to be a licensed
cosmetologist so she, you know,also understands hair type and
all that.
So I love when she does herlike curl hair refresh.
I'm just like this is real,like I can see her.
You know she doesn't eventypecast her, her, essentially
she doesn't, like you know, butshe talks about it.
She talks about it and Ibelieve she's also high density.
I think she's.
I think she may have mentionedit was type 4, but just how she
(49:56):
cares for it and just likethat's the closest that I've
seen, it's definitely highdensity yeah, it's gorgeous.
Kinetra (50:04):
you know it's high density Because when she
stretched it I'm like it hassome length.
Yeah, it was gorgeous.
Nia (50:11):
Yeah, and I just wish there was more content, not
necessarily from her, but juston, and maybe I just haven't
found them, maybe I don't knowwho I'm looking for, but there's
a few people that I've comeacross on TikTok, but not so
much on Instagram.
I think there was one girl Ifound on instagram and like baby
(50:32):
, when I talk about shrinkage,baby, she got some shrink it's,
it's yeah, it's like pull, pull,pull, pull, yeah, um, yeah.
So I just think a lot of peopleuse it as a buzzword versus
like actually, or it could bethat they're, they just don't
know.
You know, it could be a lack ofum knowledge, so that's kind of
where it's like well, my hairdon't look like this, so it's
(50:54):
got to be this do you ever checkthe comments?
Kinetra (50:56):
and people also say like your hair is not 4c um, or
you don't go to the comments.
I love going to the comments.
Nia (51:02):
I love to see what people have to say it really depends,
because sometimes I I'm veryintentional of like I may want
to check the comments butsometimes, like in comment, I
kind of want to comment but atthe same time, like, oh, y'all
be wanting to tell us on thecomments and I'm trying to build
a brand.
Not trying to, I am building abrand and you know, I do know
that I have the right to put myfoot down as somebody who is in
(51:25):
the type four hair community andwho does understand it.
But it's like, but do I want totussle?
Kinetra (51:30):
in these comments.
No, it's not, because it'sendless and some people they are
on there to tussle exactly.
They're not on there to gain anunderstanding and share a
different perspective at all.
They're there, that's theirmission.
Honey, I ain't got time, okay.
Do you think social media hashelped or hurt when it comes to
how we value hair length in theblack community?
Nia (51:58):
That's a double edged sword .
I think that it shines a lighton the problems that we have
within our hair community.
Okay, I like that.
So it can be, which can behelpful and hurtful if you're
not careful, right, yeah, soagain, social media is this vast
(52:21):
platform.
You have the world at yourfingertips but, um, the language
, the, how we celebrate ordemonize stuff on social media
can be extremely hurtful.
However, educational, like thispodcast that's up on social
media, other platform, otherpeople who are doing very
(52:42):
similar work to deconstruct theway we view texturism and so
forth, is extremely helpful,because I want my daughter to be
able to come back and find thisepisode and be like my mommy
was talking about this 10, 12,you know whatever, how many
years ago, and you know, and shecan see why I value her hair
(53:03):
texture in the way that it is.
I mean it may be like mine, itmay be like her dad's, it may be
like, you know, genetics, baby,they can pull from way back,
absolutely back, back back.
They sure can.
Yeah, um, so, yeah, I just, Ijust I think that it just shines
the light on the problem and Ifeel like, as a people, we have
to be willing to do the work.
Kinetra (53:23):
I love that answer, I really do.
I.
I agree with you there.
When, even when you said adouble-edged sword, you know, um
, it's very eye-opening, yeah,you know, and it's making us, uh
, more aware of how we dointernalize, you know, our views
and perceptions on our hair,you know, if anything, it
(53:43):
definitely did, you know whetherunhealthy or healthy.
You know it's it really exposedit yeah, yeah yep.
How do you personally definebeauty for your hair today, and
how does that differ from howyou used to view it?
Nia (54:00):
I think my hair is the most darling thing.
Like I'll be telling my I'll belike man, my hair is so pretty.
Like my hair is just sobeautiful.
Like the fact that I can saythat and like feel it in my
bones, versus back in the daywhere you like you try to
convince yourself or somethinglike me personally, I would try
to, but be so frustrated andfeel so defeated and like not
(54:24):
understanding my hair type andhow to work with my hair type
and just be like you know, know,this is a buzz Like what is it?
The fact that I have theversatility and I also have
choice, I think has reallyhelped.
Like I have the choice if Iwant to be natural or if I don't
want to be natural, if I wantbraids, if I don't want braids.
(54:44):
The freedom yes, I love thatthe freedom, and I, I love that
the freedom, and I think thatthere is beauty in freedom.
And with that.
It's just like you know, like Iget to wear my hair and you
know and love the way it looksin its entirety, Curly or not,
defined or not.
Kinetra (55:16):
You know like I get to wear it and love the way it
looks in its entirety.
Do you still feel that way,even when you think about the
little girl that, I guess, madeyou, um, go back and revisit the
mirror?
Like you know what, I don'tknow if I like my hair anymore,
even today, like, do you stillfeel like you love your hair
opposed to back then?
Nia (55:24):
absolutely good, absolutely .
I think my natural journey hasbrought me back to where I was
when I lived it.
Like I feel, like I'm fullcircle.
We've we've made a full circlemoment.
Now it's just like all right,cool.
Are you grateful for theexperience?
Yes, yes, um, because withoutit I would be ignorant to my
hair type, to um the beauty ofmy hair, to the caring and
(55:48):
loving of my hair, and I'm in aspace where I'm not like, where
I was celebrated, where Icherish it and so forth.
Kinetra (55:55):
And it's good to have the experience of having to
reflect, you know, even if youdidn't have the experience of
seeing her, you know being ableto say, like her hair is
beautiful, but mine is too there, you go, yeah, but I still like
that you actually had to gothrough that, because it makes
you love yourself even deeper,you know.
(56:17):
So it's good that you actuallywent through it yeah, you learn
to love different things aboutyour hair.
It don't.
It don't have to look like hersin order to be beautiful, and I
don't need your externalcompliments to know that my hair
is beautiful as long as I knowit's beautiful.
Nia (56:32):
It is beautiful At the end of the day yeah, At the end of
the day, it defies gravity andit looks like a plant girl.
It looks like a little bush.
Kinetra (56:40):
It's like a tree, literally.
Okay, and remember, God madethose Exactly.
What would you say to someone?
Nia (56:54):
who's learning to love their high-density coily crown
but still feels like it's onlyvalid when it's stretched or
long.
Oh, be patient, you know, ifthey are high density and quote,
kinky quote like me, we, uh,the beauty industry, what we see
, what we see, even not justlike when we see, like, um, hair
(57:16):
care products and so forth,like we don't really see our
hair type, right, it's not thatoften and that's okay.
That's okay, we're just gonnabuild our own table, but please
be patient in the journey and,uh, if you need to like write a
love letter to your hair or justlike reframe the way you view
taking care of your hair, thatwas a big thing for me because,
(57:38):
you know, typically you hear, oh, wash days, it's a chore.
But you know, like, you hearthat you're internalizing that
and honestly, let's be honest,don't nobody willingly want to
wash dishes, but you have to,you know, unless you're gonna
have a dirty kitchen, right?
So if we use language like it'sa chore, it's a task, it's like
you're, you're saying to yourhair like you too much trouble,
I have to do it.
(57:59):
Yeah, because you know I don'twant to be looking motley but
you too much trouble, instead ofembracing it as a part of who
you are in your god-given designat the end of the day, be
patient.
We rework the framework and thelanguage that you use around
your hair.
That's what I would say tosomeone that was dealing with it
tell it, tell you, like, like.
It's beautiful.
(58:19):
But just, you also have tofigure out what products work
for you.
That is a huge part too,because not every products are
not one size fit all they're not.
Kinetra (58:27):
I'm glad you mentioned that they're not.
I don't care whose product itcan be, beyonce product, even
though it's being promoted as aone size fits fits all.
Nia (58:35):
It's not, it's impossible yeah, there's a lot of things
that go into it, so find oneword like take the time to find
out what works for you and bepatient.
Yeah, and just change thelanguage.
Kinetra (58:46):
Change the language.
Girl.
You took us to church with thatlittle quick sermon.
All right, no, seriously,because that's what we all need
to hear.
You know, when it comes to ourhair, yeah, or anyone that's in
that transitioning phase oftrying to learn how to receive
it in a healthy way.
And I love the comparison thatyou made about the dishes.
We don't like to do it, it'sgonna get done.
(59:15):
Yeah, you know, like, just doit, you know, and the more you
do it, the more easier it.
Do get you know, and over timeyou will learn to adjust that
mind frame and it won't be sucha quote-unquote task.
But, like you said, you have toreword how you speak to it.
Yeah, yeah.
Nia (59:26):
Yeah, you do.
You want to know who I thinkdoes a really good job.
I like Tabitha how she namedher.
Kinetra (59:34):
Oh, Tabitha is.
Nia (59:35):
Love her.
How she named her fro like.
Donna and I just be like youknow, maybe give your hair a
name and treat it as your bestfriend.
Yeah, because baby she takereal good care of Donna.
She do.
She do it as your best friend?
Yes, because baby she take realgood care of donna.
Kinetra (59:50):
She do, she do.
Nia (59:50):
I love that yeah caradonna, and I think, I think that's
beautiful.
Kinetra (59:53):
I I have yet to name my hair, but uh, you should, and
that's gonna grow the connectioneven more.
You're already there, yeah, andit's gonna make y'all tighter,
you, the relationship can alwaysget better, absolutely you know
, absolutely, absolutely,because it ain't going nowhere,
it's not going to change, it'stheirs exactly for sure.
Yeah, well, that's all I havefor you today.
(01:00:13):
I want to thank you again forblessing us with your presence a
second time.
I'm sure I'll have you on hereagain another time because I
really enjoy um ourconversations and I love how you
really get into it.
You know, you do you put yourall literally to everything you
do, so thank you.
Nia (01:00:33):
I really appreciate it.
I just do my best.
Kinetra (01:00:35):
Yeah, and you do.
You do a great job at it, honey.
Thank you, You're welcome.
Thank you.
If you've ever questionedwhether your texture was
beautiful enough, professionalenough or feminine enough,
please hear me when I say yourhair has never been the problem.
The problem has always been thepeople around you that told you
it had to look like somethingelse to matter.
(01:00:55):
But here's the truth Short,coily, dense, fine, high
shrinkage hair is beautiful.
It is sacred, it is enough.
Thank you for listening to hearwhat I'm saying.
If this episode resonated withyou, share with someone who
needs to hear it.
Please like, share andsubscribe to the podcast to stay
up to date with the latestupdates.
Want to add more to thisconversation?
(01:01:16):
Join us on Patreon.
As a member, you'll get accessto exclusive bonus episodes
behind the scenes content,limited ebooks, early access and
a community that's all abouthealing, growth and real talk.
Tap the link in the show notes.
We'll see you there.
There's a certain kind of silence that follows you when
the people who are supposed toaffirm you are the same ones who
criticize the very way you grow.
This episode is for everylittle black girl who sat in
between someone's legs whiletheir coils were tugged, sighed
at or called too much.
Today I'm joined by Nia Ford,louisiana raised like me, and
someone who knows firsthand whatit feels like to carry the
(00:24):
weight of texturism, not onlyfrom strangers but from home.
We're unpacking the deep, quietways.
We've been taught that onlycertain textures deserve praise
and that kinky, coily hair mustearn its beauty through length,
manipulation or invisibility.
This conversation goes beyondcurl patterns.
We're talking about shame,shrinkage, hair envy and the
hard work of unlearning.
(00:45):
So whenever or wherever you arenatural, relaxed, locked,
stretch or in a bunnet, justknow you're safe here.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart.
Today we have Nia Ford of IBless Faces Artistry joining us
for a second time.
If you haven't already, makesure you check out her first
(01:05):
episode.
It's in season two, episodenine, and it's sitting at 113
downloads.
Come on now.
Yes, so obviously people lovewhat she got to say.
There we go.
So it's information that youneed to hear, so make sure you
check that out.
I'll tag that in the show notes.
Welcome to the show, nia, howare you doing?
I am good girl.
(01:26):
Yeah that's good.
Nia (01:27):
Good to see you, I know right, it's been a minute.
It's been a minute.
I don't think we've seen.
We haven't seen each other anythis year, so no, yeah, it's
been like over a year.
Kinetra (01:37):
I think the last time we saw each other was like
January 2024.
Uh-huh, I think so well, wegotta do something about that
yeah, we've been trying to plan,but the plans are not planning.
Nia (01:49):
Okay, they're not making it out of the chat.
They are not making it out ofthe chat, it's because our
schedules.
It's because of our schedulesthat's the main reason
intentionally just pick a day,take the day off and just go
yeah yeah, absolutely for sure,I'll do something fun.
Kinetra (02:04):
Yeah, girl, I'm loving this look.
I love this look.
I love the glasses.
I just and the jelly beans.
That was the first thing Inoticed.
I'm like, yes, I love this.
You taking me back, unlockingchildhood memories, as we should
, as we should yes, I'm here forthat, I'm here for that
thousand percent.
Yes, alright, girl, do you haveanything you want to say before
(02:28):
we get started with our firstquestion, or you just ready to
roll on into it?
Nia (02:31):
I think I'm ready to roll into it because I know when we
last we kind of it kind of wasalready touched on this subject,
but now we can kind of deep,like do a Absolutely Ready to
like dive in.
I want to dive in.
Kinetra (02:46):
Who was that?
Nia (02:47):
Trey Songz.
It was Trey Songz, girl Of allpeople.
Kinetra (02:51):
Oh Lord, that's another topic.
Yeah, another day, right?
Do you recall how you perceivedyour hair and your environment?
You know when you were a child,before the projection was
displayed amongst your familymembers I love big hair when I
was a kid.
Nia (03:09):
I don't tame it, blow it out.
Let me wear big like I havealways loved big hair.
I still love big hair.
I just loved big hair.
So I was not too fond of thepressing comb.
Really, mm-mm, mm-mm.
I did not want straight hair,oh wow.
I did not want straight hair.
(03:31):
Until comments.
You know, when you starthearing things as a kid, throw
me out.
Kinetra (03:36):
Yeah, I love that.
So how old were you at thistime, you know, when you were
actually, you know, being ableto like, being able to like
consciously see, like your hairbeing big, it's all throwed out,
and how old were you wheneverthe projection started and then
you started noticing, I guess Idon't know if the projection
actually, you know, played apart in how you did start
(04:00):
perceiving your hair after that?
Nia (04:03):
um, for first, let's start with the question how I, how old
um?
My brain does not compute thatway.
I cannot recall anything withnumerical numbers.
Okay, um, that's, I don't know.
It's weird.
I just, I just, it's not weird.
Kinetra (04:18):
It's just not you, yeah , I can tell you.
Nia (04:19):
You can recall like elementary, there we go, yeah,
yeah.
So like pre-k, kinder, um, Iwon't name drop um there.
So, like the very first time Ium noticed because I mean it was
just me and my sister, we grewup together so, like you know,
(04:41):
my and my here people say mymama had good hair, right or
whatever, um, but then, like ourage group, our peer group, so
we started going to school,there was this one girl and I
just thought like she was sopretty to me and she had long,
like her hair was long for ablack girl.
And then you would hear like,oh, she got pretty hair, oh she
has good hair.
And then that's when I was justlike, oh, like you know,
(05:04):
shrinkage is is real with this,when you're a type four girl,
like shrinkage is so real.
And that's when I was like OK,that's when I was like, ok,
maybe I do want the hot comb,you know, maybe I do want it
like stretched out, becauseeverybody's saying this about
her hair.
Like this is, you know, I wantmy hair to look good.
Kinetra (05:23):
Was her hair straightened at the time, or was
it?
Did it defy gravity at all?
Or was it in its natural stateAt that age?
Nia (05:31):
I don't even know, I don't know, it didn't seem relaxed.
It may have been likeblow-dried out really well, and
I don't think that skin color issynonymous to texture, but
sometimes it does play a part.
And she was a lighter, likelighter complexion.
She was like really light skin.
(05:52):
Um, her mama was too, and so itcould be that you know genetics
and so forth, so of course itis linked to genetics.
Kinetra (06:02):
I mean your hair texture definitely come from DNA
, it does you know?
So she was wearing her hairmore blown out, so it was more
stretched for sure.
So in those moments, that'swhen you started to kind of
visualize your hair may notbeing as appealing to you.
Yep, so that actually happenedoutside our household before the
(06:24):
projection came from inside thehousehold.
Ok, so that would you say, thatthat was more like a fluff.
I mean a fluff, a selfprojection.
Nia (06:32):
Possibly it could have been .
I can agree to that.
I think when you're a child,you don't realize that's what
that is.
It's just that when you hearyour peers or you see something
that's different and people willtalk about it in a positive
light, um, and that's not likethey come in and so like, like a
lot of her praises came off,how pretty she was because of
(06:54):
her, like, how light-skinned shewas and her hair and um, like
the teachers would say howbeautiful her hair was and oh,
you got some good hair.
Your hair is just so pretty.
Yeah, your mama, like those typeof conversations and
academically I did well, so Iwas praised for being on the
honor roll, like, uh,interacting well with my peers
(07:14):
and elementary like getting allthe little pick, pick, the pick,
pride things and whatever wegot or whatever.
So like the praises weredifferent.
Um, so I was just like, well,they're that comment on her
appearance.
Like you know, as a kid youkind of were like, well, I kind
of want that too.
Right, she used to like do,like you know, when you do
(07:34):
little kids hair and you wearthose little knocker balls I
don't know what y'all call them.
Kinetra (07:38):
I call them knocker balls.
You know, we both fromLouisiana, so it's probably the
same terminology.
Yeah, knocker balls, knockerballs.
Nia (07:43):
Yes, so whenever she'd wear her ponytails she'd wear like
three or four ponytails but shewould have twists and her twists
would be long and poofy andthey would be like so thick.
I know Her little knocker ballsat the base and then at the
ends and I just thought that wasso gorgeous.
Kinetra (07:57):
Oh yeah, you mentioned that your mom had quotequote
good hair.
So what did her hair like?
What did it look like?
Nia (08:05):
My mama's hair was a little bit longer than bra strap
length.
Okay, like super long.
Well, I guess it's long for ablack woman.
Why?
Kinetra (08:14):
do you say that it's long for a black woman?
Nia (08:16):
That's a great question.
Kinetra (08:18):
Yeah.
Nia (08:18):
In our community.
If it don't go past like yourshoulder length, we don't
consider it long.
Anything that's in the neckarea is considered short.
So it's more common for blackwomen, in your opinion, to have
hair residing in that space onlyaround the neck?
No, that's not more common.
I just think that's how wecategorize it, or at least
(08:40):
that's how I hear it categorized, so maybe the language just
needs to be tweaked.
Yeah.
Kinetra (08:49):
I think that we need to do a better job of unlearning
things.
Yes, we do yeah.
Nia (08:51):
Yeah, I mean, it's just long.
You know her hair is long.
Let me not say forever her hairis long.
Her hair is long, amen yeah, Ilove that.
Kinetra (08:57):
Yeah, let's correct it.
Nia (08:58):
Let's correct that, yeah um , but she's like in the type a
family.
Kinetra (09:04):
Oh, wow, so it's mostly straight.
Your mom's hair More wavy thanyeah, more wavy Like a loose
wavy, mm-hmm, okay.
And then, growing up inLouisiana, that is deemed as
good hair, the good hair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's deemedas the good hair.
Nia (09:18):
Yeah, my grandmother's hair is like more straight, her
mom's is like more and I thinkmaybe she I don't know I'm
thinking she's to relax her hair, but even when she relaxed it
it gave um, if you know anythingabout like the creole people
and all that like it gave, likethat like mulatto hair texture.
Kinetra (09:34):
No, baby, okay, because I know you more in the south of
louisiana.
So that's why I was wonderingis she creole?
Nia (09:41):
no, them folks from the north.
My daddy's side is uh, they're,they're how you said them,
folks from the north they are,they are, they're from the north
, they're um, they're fromchicago, um, the midwest, okay,
uh, yeah.
But even even mygreat-grandmother was, uh,
(10:02):
chocolate, but had beautiful,like you, just just bone
straight really pretty hair.
Um, that's how it's like.
I know that we try to say so,we try to link skin tone to
texture, but it's not synonymous, but we do.
Kinetra (10:16):
I mean yeah, we do, we do we do and it's.
Nia (10:18):
It's gonna take some, some unlearning and a lot of
self-correcting, because whenyou've gone your whole life with
that language, it makes it alittle like you kind of catch
yourself in how you speak aboutit.
Kinetra (10:30):
Yeah, you internalize it for sure.
Nia (10:32):
Yeah, yeah A thousand percent?
Kinetra (10:34):
Uh-huh, you sure do.
So the next question isbasically like was there ever a
time you felt your texture madeyou less than so?
Now I want to just go back andreiterate this question and take
it back to the little girl.
So at that time, did it makeyour texture feel less than oh,
(10:55):
because before it didn't yeah,no, it did right, um yeah yeah,
a thousand percent.
Nia (10:57):
A thousand percent, so what ?
Kinetra (10:59):
you did.
You went home, looked in themirror like I don't like my hair
, like what happened?
Nia (11:02):
well, we wore a lot of braids okay, braids with like
beads or with yes, and I thinkthat, yes, my mama would braid
our hair, do the plaits and thenbead and shell it.
Yeah, and I love that and tothis day I still I like I loved
it as a girl and I love it as awoman, as a grown woman okay, me
too um, and so it was like,well, I may not be able to, and
(11:30):
I think that's when I kind oflike pushed my mama to always
put beads on my hair, like don't, I don't want the puffs, I
don't want if you want to seesome length, and you know them
puffs gonna defy gravity and Iwant to hear.
I want to hear all the thenoises so what you mean?
Kinetra (11:46):
the noises from the beads.
You know like I love, oh, youlove hearing the sound of the
bees.
Me too, I did.
Yeah, did you ever catch anybacklash in school like was it
too noisy?
Nia (11:56):
not too noisy.
They just didn't like like uh,not to, I don't know.
But then that's a whole notherthing, because when you start
demonizing things that areculturally appropriate for our
hair type and the sense of alittle black girl can't wear
that Right, you know that'sproblematic, absolutely.
That is extremely problematic,because we used to do a lot of
reds and I'm just like I meanthey're cool or whatever.
(12:17):
But it's all about the swingtime with the beads and the
shells.
Yeah, time with the bees andthe shells, yeah, yeah.
And my mama used to wear herhair like that too.
She would do plaits and like,also bead her hair and put the
shells on the end yeah, so I waslike that's so pretty like
that's what I want it's sodecorative right, yeah, for sure
um?
Kinetra (12:38):
did you ever feel like your hair made you stand out in
the wrong way, as a child or oreven through an ever period as
an adult, let's see.
Nia (12:51):
So I'm on my third or fourth natural hair journey.
Kinetra (12:55):
I know because we were relaxed a year ago.
Yeah, literally for like twomonths and it was beautiful, it
was beautiful, and then you wentright back.
I did.
Nia (13:04):
I did.
Kinetra (13:09):
I miss my girls, okay, um so being type four or 4c or
whatever you want to categorizeit, let's, let's, let's talk
about because I know you knowmore in depth about your hair
texture, because you mentionedhigh density on the last podcast
yeah, so the people only liketo listen.
Yes, tell them like you havehigh density hair too.
Nia (13:25):
Yes, I am type four, considered 4C, super kinky,
coily, high density but finehair.
Kinetra (13:34):
Yes, love that yeah.
Nia (13:36):
Yeah, and so essentially what that means is I have a lot
of hair strands, but it doesn'ttake much to get it straight, in
the sense of like heat, and Ihave to be very careful of um
it's.
It's delicate, and I don't wantto say fragile, because fragile
means to me it's like it'sequates to unhealthy super
healthy but super fragile.
So I have to handle my coilsand curls with care, right?
(13:58):
Um, I can't just be doing, Ican't be super rough with it, I
forget um causing damage,breakage, all that, whatever.
Um.
So on my fourth natural hairjourney, um, because I mean we
kind of talked about the familyperspective as a little girl,
but I kind of want to talk aboutthis from from the aspect of a,
(14:19):
like, grown woman right.
I literally had a non-blackperson tell me that they think
they they view my natural hairis beautiful, but I like they
feel like I look better withlonger, straight hair.
That's problematic because I,for one, I didn't ask you this,
it was unsolicited.
And for two, again, my hair isnot your business.
(14:43):
Like, how I choose to show upand express my express myself in
how I choose to wear my hair isnone of your business.
So, yeah, that was that.
Yeah, but how I feel about itnow, like I absolutely have
embraced it, like some peopleare just going to feel however
they feel and that's theirproblem, not mine.
At the end of the day, this isthe hair God gave me.
(15:05):
This is the hair that I've beenblessed with and to me, it's
extremely beautiful.
So when I don't put product init, baby, it looks like just
black cotton on my head.
When I do put product in it, Iget these beautiful defined
coils, and every time people arelike I love your hair, what did
you do to it?
Kinetra (15:25):
like I love your hair.
What did you do to it did?
Nia (15:27):
you coil it?
Did you um sponge it?
I'm like this is my curl?
this is it exactly, and I thinkthat there's not enough
representation on platforms toshow what the hair can look like
when it's properly styled withproduct.
You know, I agree, yeah, and sofor that people be like oh,
it's just and I hate the termnappy, oh, it's just nappy, and
my sister says it all the timechild.
(15:48):
And I'll be like no, you justdon't know what you're doing.
She was like why is it not likeyours?
And I'm like we literally havethe same curl pattern.
Literally, me and her have thesame curl pattern.
I'm just like I'm trying toteach you how to do this and
she's like I just can't get it.
I was like okay, well, when weget together I'll show
absolutely yeah, even if y'allhave to facetime yeah anything
(16:09):
to help her, you know, on thatjourney, because it is not, uh,
the easiest.
Kinetra (16:13):
Whenever you are learning, you know, and also
unlearning the emotionalattachments that all in you know
, in all the unhealthy ways.
You know, when she, when she'sstill relating to it as nappy oh
, you know, I still got someinternal work to do, you know,
instead of my big age of 32 isbig sister.
Nia (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised, don't say that.
Kinetra (16:33):
Don't say that.
Yeah, I'm not surprised,because you know my years behind
the chair, you'd be surprised.
You know, some are older, stilltrying to unlearn those
terminologies that wereconnected with our hair texture
in order to embrace what itreally is I want to speak to
that because let's be a thousandpercent honest.
Nia (16:53):
Um, I mean, we go back to the laws that require black
women to cover their hairbecause their hair was deemed as
beautiful.
But you know, like in theslavery area and all of that, if
you go over to the motherlandor come from, they're not using
that type of language and theirhair is thick, baby, it's thick,
(17:16):
okay.
And they see the beauty intheir hair and they do all the
things with their hair and soforth, and it's like really,
it's really celebrated overthere, absolutely yeah.
So we have to decolonize the waywe view kinky coily hair.
Kinetra (17:31):
Yes, absolutely that's what it is.
It's a deep, deep compressionthat we have to address.
Yeah, I feel like we have towork internally before we can
even celebrate the external orthe aesthetic of it.
You know, sometimes you canlearn just from learning how to
(17:53):
do your hair.
Yeah, sometimes it can be assimple.
As I finally learned how to domy hair, I know what to do with
it.
So now we have arrived.
But for others, sometimesyou're going to have to reach
deep down.
Deep down and get into the rootcause of why are we here.
Yeah, it's a lot of work, it'sa lot of work.
Nia (18:14):
It's a lot of work, but we are making strides.
Kinetra (18:18):
Yeah, we are.
How did the adults around youtalk about hair textures?
Was it a language of love or alanguage of labor?
And oh, it's so unmanageable.
And you know all the thingsthat go on when we sit in
between you know our familymembers legs and beat your head
still, and all of them, oh mygosh, that's a great question.
Nia (18:37):
So as a child, oh, my mama hated doing her hair did.
Kinetra (18:41):
She hate doing it because it was a lot, or I think
it was a lot she did not knowhow to do it I think it's a
combination of both.
Nia (18:47):
I think because our hair texture was not like her, so she
wasn't familiar oh, that's umso my, my aunt would blow dry
her hair out a lot and then,like we would get like the
plaits and stuff, um, but I justwhen you're not, when you have
children that are not, um, inthe same hair category pattern,
texture, feel or it is, you knowit takes some getting used to.
(19:10):
My grandmother on my mama'sside was very much so, um, she
was a hot comb junkie oh, sheloved hot, she would press our
hair so much.
I think it was just easy.
It was so much um easy for herto manage it when we used to
stay with her through in thesummers, um.
So, with that being said, uh, Ijust think my mama just just
(19:34):
had a hard time, like that ladyrelaxed my hair twice in like
one week, whoa the relaxerdidn't take the first.
it didn't didn't take so many,it didn't take.
It didn't make it straight likeit relaxed the curl but it
didn't take.
It didn't make it straight Likeit relaxed the curl, but it
didn't straighten my hair.
But that's the point of therelaxer.
Yes, we waited like a day ortwo.
I remember this.
We waited like a day or two andthen, and then she re-relaxed
(19:57):
it.
Kinetra (19:57):
Yeah.
Nia (19:58):
And Did your hair break?
Kinetra (20:01):
Or do you don't remember?
Nia (20:03):
I don't think it did.
I don't think it did, I don'tthink it did, I don't know.
But yeah, I honestly don'tthink my hair type was meant for
relaxers.
To be honest, I just think itthrived in its natural state, as
it should, as it should, butyeah, no.
So yeah, we did it twice in oneweek and you know, because she
was, you know, like it justdidn't take and all of that and
(20:25):
so forth.
So, yeah, so we went down thatAvenue for a while and even with
the relaxed hair, I remembergoing to the beautician high.
We were in middle school.
I remember going to thebeautician and I want Afropos,
like I'm sitting in your chair.
I'm sitting in your chair toget a relaxer, but you're about
to make me faux Afropos.
She would, um, roll my hairwith, like those super small
(20:47):
rollers yeah, the plastic onesjust to get the curl, and then
she would slick my hair up forme to have two afro puts and,
realistically, we could havejust cut all this hair off and
grew it back out to be naturaland I could have naturally had
my afro.
So that's how I was.
Like, I've always loved big airpuffs.
Kinetra (21:03):
I have always loved them you just unlocking a memory
, keep going.
Nia (21:08):
I'm gonna talk about it, but keep going yes and so, um,
it's crazy, you know, I justalways went, I just wanted, like
the curls, like I just wantedthe curls all the time yeah, I
remember, um, watching the spicegirls and scary spice.
Kinetra (21:23):
I used to love her hair and I was like I want hair like
scary spice, and at that time Iwas getting relaxers too, but
not knowing the same thing likeyou, all you have to do is just
stop relaxing your hair, cut itoff and you will have big hair,
you know.
And so what I would do is, um,go get a twist out, a flat twist
though and she would take itdown, but I'm like it still
(21:43):
don't have the volume that I'mlooking for, right and and.
so, even as a grown woman, I didnot understand until I which is
weird for me I didn'tunderstand until I went to
cosmetology school Like girl yougot to cut this relaxed stuff
off in order to get that bighair, because I started so young
getting the relaxers, so Ididn't, I didn't, I just didn't
put two and two together, youknow.
(22:04):
But yeahall was just like thattoo, like, oh, the big hair,
like, all right, give me that,chaka khan, give me, give me
that.
It was like I, you know, Iappreciated the straight, just
for the manageability purposes,you know, it didn't take a lot
to do it.
But I also didn't know what wason the other side of natural
hair.
Nia (22:24):
I just knew I love the aesthetic of it, you know oh
yeah, man, that makes me thinkabout, um, the fact that our
hair would be pressed andstraightened when it came to
special occasions, easter mostly, baby, that bang with the pink
roller.
Kinetra (22:40):
yes, omg, those are the good days, though.
I actually did enjoy getting myhair pressed, but only because
I knew it could go back.
You know, yeah, I did.
I didn't enjoy the process, butI did enjoy like wearing it,
you know, straight every now andagain, because it made it
(23:02):
easier for my grandmother tocomb my hair, and when it was in
its natural state she knew whatshe was doing.
I just didn't like how shecombed it and it looked better
to me when she combed it when itwas straight.
So that was my reason forliking it more straight, because
she could comb it better.
But my mama could do either or.
So if my mama was not around, Idefinitely prefer for my hair
(23:23):
to be straight.
Nia (23:24):
Don't hot comb it, baby.
I remember putting them teacups on your ears, so we didn't
get burnt Dang, we just had tohold out.
My grandma used to give us teacups, so if she did you would
hear it.
No, baby, I used to fear thehot comb.
Let's be honest.
Kinetra (23:38):
Oh yeah, that's why I said I didn't enjoy the process,
I just enjoyed the after effect.
Yeah, yeah, was there a momentwhere?
Nia (23:50):
you internalized the idea that your hair was a burden.
Sure, when I tried this beingnatural the third time, so let
me say this um, in my 20s I cutit off.
Okay, so when I was 18, I cutall my hair off and then and it
was relaxed at the time- whenyou cut it all off.
And then I was like, okay, I'mgonna go natural.
But then like I was slappingdot on it like lift and rake so
(24:10):
at the same time, like theintegrity of the curls, aren't?
they ain't integrized?
That's not even a real word,but we know what you're saying
yes.
So, like we care what you, Ididn't, I didn't fully grasp,
like, what my hair looked likewithout all the manipulation,
all the chemicals, right so, andthen then we went through that
phase and went through thatphase and again, since it's
(24:33):
being bleached, it's a littlebit more manageable because it's
processed.
When it's processed, baby, it'slike it's laid and dyed and
fried dyed, laid to the side,all the things, all the things.
So, like I, I lit it on red,blue, purple, all the colors you
think of.
I was like, okay, cool, allright.
And then it got to the pointwhere I was like, ooh, I want a
taper fade.
I did that for like two years,every two weeks, getting a cut
(24:57):
and getting color.
Yeah, all right, let's go pink,let's go green, let's go
whatever, whatever.
So I had an allergic reactionto the last time I had my hair
colored and it was like it wasgreen dye and it just made my
scalp.
You're so bad, um, and so, uh,I was like you know what, I'm
(25:19):
just gonna let this grow out.
You know, um, let's see, let'sjust see what this looks like.
So I let it grow out and thenthat's when it was like the
burden, because I didn't knowwhat.
I was doing, I was determinednot to put any color in it.
I was.
I told myself that I wantedthis growth journey to be a
(25:40):
reflection of my personal growthjourney, like how.
I took care of myself.
So, um, yeah, just I wanted tomirror that and it was hard it
was like what was some of thestruggles I?
Didn't know what to do with it.
Kinetra (25:53):
Like I'm, like we, I don't know okay you didn't
consult with a professionalbefore you just went on, since
you were you getting yourprofessionally colored at that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so, uh, thatsame person.
You didn't consult with thembefore you into the journey?
Nia (26:07):
No, they weren't really doing natural hair, okay, mm-mm,
mm-mm.
And so one of my friends at thetime she might still be a
licensed cosmetologist, but shewas also going to become an
instructor so she helped menavigate that journey with
(26:27):
figuring out what to do with it.
She was like, oh, you got to dois this?
And she was like here, trythese and all this, because,
baby, it got to the point Iremember I was trying to do.
It was in that funky stage.
Now, when you do the big job,there is a funky stage where
it's like not short enough towhere what you used to do works,
but not long enough for whatyou want to do work.
(26:48):
And so, like the styles that Idesire to want to do to my hair,
we weren't, we weren't there.
And then if I was trying to doanything that I was doing when
it was like not even a full inchlong it's, it's surpassed that
length, so now that's notworking.
So she sat me down and took thetime to like show me how to
define my curls and um and soforth.
(27:12):
I think I brought her up in thelast episode, but shout out to
shanisha newbie, because, yeah,she, she definitely helped me
with with that, and so would yousay that it was a funky stage
maybe it was, but she actuallytaught you how to work with it.
Kinetra (27:25):
So would you still classify it as a funky stage
Just because it's not reachingthe potential hairstyle that you
wanted you?
know, you hear what I'm saying,girl, yes, so it's like we can
classify it as a funky stage.
But is it a funky stage whensomeone has taught you what to
do with it?
At this stage, maybe it's justnot reaching, you know, that
(27:48):
particular aesthetic or thatlook that you are aiming for.
You know in that moment,whatever the goal was for the
hairstyle at the time, yeah, youknow.
So would you say it's a funkystage?
And I'm asking this because alot of people say this about
locks.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they say like oh, locks,have this ugly stage and I'm
like is it an ugly stage, or youjust don't know what to do with
(28:08):
it.
Nia (28:08):
That's a great you know well, when you put it that way,
I would say no it, it is atransition stage yeah, it's just
a transition it's a transition.
Yeah, yeah, I love that rightnow I'm in my transition stage,
like now.
I know what to do with it.
Baby, let's slap that gel, andjust you know.
Kinetra (28:27):
And and I love it.
Nia (28:28):
Thank you, yeah, I'm just like okay, cool, like we're not
quite at the four, we're notquite four inches, but we're not
dead, stopped at three, so wecan't get braids just yet, but
we're in a stage where we canstill do something that's
presentable, notable, but to meI think it's pretty.
Like that's still pretty, thatstill makes me feel feminine.
(28:49):
Um, I don't look like no littleboy, yeah you don't have a
little boy face I don't know,sometimes I wake up in the
morning.
I'll be like my husband reallyloved me, because what is this?
Kinetra (29:01):
well, maybe he see beyond the external, which is
what we want and need anyway,you know.
Nia (29:08):
Because I be like Jesus.
Kinetra (29:10):
Yeah.
Nia (29:10):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So well, you know, I just taketime with it and it's just like
to me.
It's like me loving on myselfin a way I did not know that was
possible when I sit at themirror like, okay, let's define
these curls.
I know it's going to take about45, 50 minutes.
Kinetra (29:33):
But when I'm done with it and I'm always like, oh my
god, my hair is so pretty likethis and you have that hair that
tricks you.
You never know how long it is,you will never know how long it
is until you take a dryer to it.
You be like, my goodness, likewhere did the length come from?
Yeah, because the hair strandsare so fine, so there's no
weight, so they're able toshrink and they shrink, they do.
Yeah, and then I'm telling youI've had so many, you know,
(29:54):
clients sit in my chair, even asa professional, and I don't
know how long their hair isuntil I'm blow drying.
I'm like I did not know.
Nia (30:01):
Wait a minute.
I didn't charge accordinglyBecause, baby, why?
We at a foot had a.
Kinetra (30:04):
I don't charge according to length anyway, but
you know it's.
I really find it fascinating,you know, and so interesting,
you know, for it to be able todo so many different things.
Yeah, the versatility isendless.
You never know what you'regonna get with high density,
fine, coily hair.
You never know.
You never know it's full ofsurprises it matches my
(30:27):
personality so well.
Nia (30:29):
It do I feel like God knew what he was doing.
He was like you have thispersonality that does it.
You need to hear that match,that.
Kinetra (30:34):
Boom, yeah you so versatile.
Do you remember the first timeyou realized your hair was being
judged by others or outside ofyourself?
You know, do you ever?
Do you remember that?
Nia (30:47):
Yeah, definitely others or outside of yourself, you know,
do you ever?
Do you remember that?
Yeah, definitely.
Um, we talked about it in thelast episode, um, when my aunt
made a comment about my hairbeing looking like a bird.
This because it was just a bigfro.
She's like you can't go at melooking nowhere with your head
looking like a bird that youdidn't put up in a ponytail or
something that's interesting tome because they grew up in the
fro era, so whenever they don'tcelebrate, it's really
(31:10):
interesting.
Kinetra (31:10):
I'm like this is nothing new for you, it's new
for me, you know.
Nia (31:14):
Yeah and she has locks.
But I think like herperspective on it has also
changed.
Like I mean, how old maybe shewill?
She had to be like in her 30sor something like that.
Kinetra (31:23):
So you know, like, what does she say about your hair
now?
Nia (31:28):
uh, we don't talk about my hair much good, um, no, when we
said we talk about other things,hair is the last thing on the
menu now.
Um, occasionally I may, youknow, bring up something about
her locks, because they used tobe so long and she started them
herself.
Oh wow, an amazing job withthem.
And um, she's just like they'rejust heavy so she ended up
(31:50):
cutting them off.
But yeah, we don't really.
We don't really discuss hair.
The only person I in my familythat I discuss her with is my
daddy.
Kinetra (31:59):
Oh, lord, is that his sister?
Oh, it's your mom.
Miss my mom.
She had texture like your mom.
No, oh, oh, wow, no.
So hers was more curly, morekinky, more.
Nia (32:10):
I don't know.
Kinetra (32:11):
Because she always had locks.
Nia (32:13):
My entire life, yes, every baby picture of her holding me.
She's had them, so I have noclue what her is, but you know,
even like her little baby hairin the back, it's not as tight
as mine.
Okay so, yeah, so, no baby hairin the back.
Kinetra (32:29):
Yeah, it's not, it's not as tight as mine, okay, so,
um, yeah, so, no, okay.
And so you and your dad, y'alldo have hair conversations.
We do have, like how, like tellme some conversations that you
and daddy have my, mybald-headed daddy.
Nia (32:43):
Yes, so he will be like what we doing to my hair, like
he said he claims ownership.
And he was just like what wedoing to my hair, like he claims
ownership.
And he was just like, yeah,that's the way my hair used to
be, yeah.
Kinetra (32:52):
And he always your hair .
In reference to his hair, he'ssaying your hair is his hair,
gotcha.
Nia (32:58):
Maybe this hair on my head belonged to that man.
According to my daddy, you gotthe same type of hair.
He was like then do you blow itout and make it a fro?
Oh, I used to think that was sopretty.
He would always say when he wasyounger he would do that.
So he would tell me how he usedto style.
He said because he bald now.
I do remember you saying thisabout your dad, yes.
So he's very, he's very much so.
Yeah, anytime, I do this, whatwe doing to it today?
Kinetra (33:24):
Yeah, I don't know.
It's good that you did have afamily member there constantly
reassuring you, especially as adad.
Yes, you know.
Yeah, to let you know, likeyour hair is good hair, it is
acceptable hair.
I do want to ask you a questionwhat do you define as bad hair?
Nia (33:42):
Like somebody has bad hair, I don't, you don't't, even if
it's unhealthy that's just whatit is unhealthy okay yeah, like
um, I think we need to stopputting our hair in boxes period
good versus bad.
Kinetra (33:57):
There's unhealthy and there's healthy hair period.
That's the end of theconversation.
Nia (34:01):
It's the end of the sentence.
I love that.
Um, we like legit, need to juststop doing that because, uh,
it's, it's anti-black, that's,that's all I can say.
It's anti-black in a sense.
Um, we have to be mindful thatour words do carry weight and
that people can't internalizethat and um and so forth.
(34:25):
So, you know, there's nothingwrong with somebody getting
creamy crack, aka a relaxer, oranything like that, or doing,
you know doing, differentstyling methods, but one
person's natural state isn'tbetter than the next, that's
right, amen.
Kinetra (34:43):
So, young girl, have you ever felt like your
shrinkage made peopleunderestimate the beauty,
versatility or health of yourhair?
Oh, absolutely yeah, let's talkabout it.
Nia (34:55):
Oh my gosh, I recently had one of my sister-in-laws ask me.
She's like, well, has your hairever been long?
And I was like I looked at her.
Maybe I'll take my glasses off.
Kinetra (35:04):
I looked at her like this Take them glasses off,
mm-hmm.
Nia (35:08):
And I was like what do you mean?
She was like well, I've alwaysseen your hair short and I was
like babe, shrinkage okay.
Kinetra (35:13):
Shrinkage and also you cut your hair a lot.
Nia (35:16):
I do.
Kinetra (35:22):
You have not even ever given your hair an opportunity
to even reach a quote-unquotecertain length.
You cut it a lot, lot actually.
Well, I guess like what peoplewould consider long.
You know, like that, thatconversation we was having
earlier, you know what I feellike.
Well, from what I've known fromyou.
You know, I've always seen it.
You know, uh, you know you wentthrough the.
You got a pixie when yourelaxed it, but it was.
Nia (35:42):
But believe me you, it was actually quite.
It was like hitting like righthere, yeah, when I relaxed it.
So still around that, thatlength you know, yeah, so, um,
but in a natural state, likeregardless, I kid you not, the
longer my hair gets, it's justgoing to look thicker, but it's
going to be this length in itsnatural state.
Yeah and.
I'm okay with it, like I finallyI finally come to terms with
(36:04):
that and that's great.
But I have a video that at somepoint I think I may edit and
post.
I have no idea, but I shot itand I did a review video of the
Revlon blow dryer brush thing.
I don't know what it was, butanyway, my hair was just out to
here and I was just like youneed to do it so she can see it.
(36:25):
Yeah, no, I showed her thatvideo and I was just like you
need to do it so she can see it.
Yeah, no, I showed her thatvideo and I was like so long,
long wear, I mean short wear.
Yeah, I was just like, no, myhair.
Kinetra (36:31):
How did that conversation even get brought up
, girl, let's, let's not, let'snot, let's not.
Look at me being nosy and beingcurious.
We can talk about this offcamera.
Okay, I'm talking about thatoff camera.
Okay, got you All right, let'smove on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have you ever posted a photowhere you felt beautiful and
(36:57):
confident in your tightertexture and it didn't get the
same love as when you do postyour videos wearing your wigs
and units?
Nia (37:02):
Um, I was about to lie and say all the time.
But that's not true.
That's not true at all, becausepost-Pixie, I did a few videos
on Instagram and people werelike, oh my God, I love your
hair and like this was like meputting gel in it and I actually
it was way shorter than thisand so I kind of sponged it to,
(37:24):
kind of like help with the curl,yeah.
And people was like, oh, like Iabsolutely love this.
Um, I love this a lot, likethis is so cute, and I'm just
like, yeah, crazy enough, thisis how it was before I went
pixie.
Oh, y'all ain't shown no lovethen, but I, right now, I wonder
what that was.
Kinetra (37:40):
Do you have a different audience?
Do you think you've gained morefollowers?
And you know, maybe you areattracting that audience?
This is on facebook andinstagram.
Well, you know, maybe you areattracting that audience.
Is this on?
Nia (37:48):
Facebook or Instagram, both , you know they go on both.
Okay, but so it's comments onboth.
However, I think it's the videoquality because oh, the video
quality yeah, so I was going tosay so.
Facebook has let me know thatthey're pushing my videos out
more because I have betterquality videos now.
Kinetra (38:06):
Good so that could be.
Nia (38:07):
You know that could play a part.
I mean, there are people thatfollow me.
You know, people that see me,that engage with me, interact
with me online and in person.
Kinetra (38:14):
Okay, All right.
Nia (38:17):
So we don't know, shan, I don't know.
Kinetra (38:19):
Yeah.
So, you know, because yourunits do look really good, yeah,
make them, girl, they lookreally good.
Yeah, make them, girl, theylook really good.
So that's why I had to stickthat question in there.
I was curious to know, like, um, because I like your hair in
its natural state and I also do,like, how you, you know, build
and create your unit.
So I was like I have to ask herthis because, yeah, I don't
(38:39):
know.
You know, yeah, girl.
And then also just to see wherepeople's minds are when it
comes to natural hair opposing,opposed to wearing hair
extensions.
I want to know, like what youraudience, you know, what are
they gravitating to more like?
Is it your hair or is it it oris it the units?
Nia (38:56):
I think it's, it's, it's a double-edged sword.
There is one unit in particularmy little short wave bob yes,
yes, indeed, I already knew yes,yeah, she gets a lot of love
online.
People are always like wheredid you get it?
I'm like I made it.
Kinetra (39:12):
I made it.
Nia (39:14):
I have a little peanut head courtesy of my daddy, and none
of the wigs in the industry fitmy head Like never, so one.
I went and took some lessons onhow to make wigs.
But I also have clients whostruggle with alopecia, so when
they sit in my chair so I'm likewe can I also offer.
(39:35):
There's a service for theclients that have alopecia that
want something that they canthrow on, because they also have
had.
They don't want to do all theglue and the adhesive.
So we construct and I say we, we, I'm speaking in existence,
y'all I haven't seen one day.
No, yeah, I'll construct thethe um, the glueless wigs or
whatever, but, yeah, that bob.
(39:56):
And then when I have my naturalhair, so between the bob and
the natural hair, but I alsothink, like as a makeup artist
or as a beauty artist as a whole, I think through the entire
look, um, I I mean, I couldprobably most likely pull off a
full face of glam and naturalhair.
But I don't like a full face ofglam.
When I wear my natural, I likefor it to be softer, um, and to
(40:18):
really capture, like my legitnatural beauty versus like a
full face.
So when I'm going full facethis one, I'm gonna throw izy on
.
That's her name.
No, baby, I just put it inthere.
I'm going to just throw Suzy on, you know.
I think that it does kind ofhelp balance out the look,
because I don't want anything tolook Like when my face, when
(40:39):
it's just bare, I don't want itto look too harsh.
Now I could do a full face ofmakeup with a taper fade and
because it's all about theangles, right, like it's all
about the angles and like howthe edge up looks.
Whatever Design like it, all itgoes.
It just is very seamless, butmy hair is like, it's like fun
and flirty and that's how I wantto be.
(41:00):
I want the whole look to lookso Okay, all right.
Kinetra (41:09):
Yeah, y'all right.
Yeah, so we're shifting over tothe conversation, over to
social media.
Oh, let's talk about this.
Do you think the natural hairmovement has helped us heal from
texturism at all, or do youthink it did otherwise?
Nia (41:18):
um, I think it depends on your algorithm.
I think it depends on youralgorithm.
I think it depends on whoyou're following, because social
media is such a huge platform.
I mean, I love ig because it'slike I built it brick by brick,
so I know what I'm like when Iget on.
What I'm going to see.
Um tiktok, however, is a safarichild.
(41:40):
It is, and um and you, you endup like on the wrong side of
tiktok and you may be hearingthe wrong type of messaging
about your hair um, there isn't,honestly I, because I don't
really tick or talk that often,I barely post over there.
So, uh, is there a reason why Ijust I've it's never grown on me
(42:02):
, that's just never been the.
The app that was is yeah, whatabout YouTube?
Uh, I'm, I don't scroll, I no,I ain't gonna let you know like
every blue moon youtube.
It's never been that big of athing for me.
Kinetra (42:16):
Um well, opposed to posting and scrolling?
Nia (42:19):
I guess no okay, I need to get on youtube more like that's
like that's a goal I highlyrecommend.
Kinetra (42:26):
Um, it's so easy to get subscribers.
I just go live and I may atleast get 16 subscribers every
time I go live and I'm onlythere for like an hour.
That's yeah, and I'm actuallythinking about like leaving
Instagram and TikTok alone andthen focus on on YouTube,
because it's so global it is itis, it is, it is and with you
(42:47):
doing makeup and you could justgo live while just doing the
makeup and it also just I don'tfeel like the people I know are
just watching me that part, soI'm going to do a shameless plug
, but I'm actually in the worksof curating a show for YouTube
when I like on my.
Nia (43:07):
YouTube channel.
Um, so yeah, I'm in the worksof some stuff to actually
address what beauty is like inin our community and how people
view it.
Um, you know, and so I'mexcited excited me too.
Kinetra (43:21):
Make sure you keep me, you know, I will I definitely
informed.
Yes, ma'am, yeah, because Iwould love to follow a show like
this.
Nia (43:28):
Yes, yes yes, yeah, I'm super excited you know to have
those conversations.
We may have you a guest there.
Kinetra (43:32):
Yeah, I would love to be a guest.
You would be sitting in mychair.
Okay, that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's likeinterview.
Nia (43:42):
Oh, I like that, yeah, and just you know, discuss, talk,
all the things, and so, becauseI've just heard a lot with my
clients as a whole and I waslike, oh, there needs to be
something.
So that way we can shift a lotof the narratives and have the
conversations and I'm able topour into the women, that which
I want to and like reach, thetype of women that I want to
(44:03):
reach.
So yeah.
Kinetra (44:04):
I love this.
This is like a self-confidence,you know, also from within too,
because those conversationsthat you have, you go beyond the
surface Even though you'reworking on the surface.
You're going to go beyond thesurface and reach those women in
so many different ways.
Yeah, absolutely, and we needthat.
So, yeah, yeah, that's good.
(44:25):
Do you have a name for the showyet?
If you do, don't say it.
Good, thank you.
Do you have a name for the showyet?
If you do, don't say it.
I'm just curious, do?
Nia (44:32):
you have a name.
Kinetra (44:33):
Maybe, okay, okay, I'm just saying don't say it right
now, because I do believe inkeeping something, oh,
absolutely, absolutely Toyourself yeah.
A thousand percent there, and Iwant you to say it, and then
you haven't launched it.
And somebody else, somebodyelse do it and then yeah, so
don't say it.
I just wanted to know yes or noyeah, yeah, yeah, I have a name
(44:56):
.
Nia (44:56):
However it may, it may change okay, so being flexible
with it yeah, yeah, no, let thelord lead me girl whoo.
Kinetra (45:06):
No, seriously, you have to.
You know, you think you have itall figured out, you think you
got it all laid out in the waythat it need to go and flow
exactly, and then it happens andyou're like this is not the
direction I thought it was taken.
You gotta lead with god.
You have to thousand thousandpercent have you noticed that
(45:27):
some some textures are stillmissing from the hair inspo
pictures on social media?
Nia (45:32):
Oh, absolutely, we're still .
Okay, let me, let's get, I havea whole soapbox about this,
because there are a lot ofpeople that are on social media
that are claiming to have 4Chair.
Like literally, they will saytype 4 or 4C hair and it's not.
And that is misleading.
That is is extremely misleading.
I don't feel there are a few uminfluencers, but the ones that
(45:58):
I see they're not.
They're non-american, do you?
Oh, they're not american.
So, like this one, I follow she.
What about ethnicity?
Kinetra (46:07):
and well they average.
You know you can be anotherethnicity and still have that
kinky textured hair.
Nia (46:13):
Yeah, yeah, but no, I haven't seen.
Oh okay, I haven't seen it.
Why do you?
Kinetra (46:16):
think they want to categorize themselves as 4C.
That's a great question,especially when it's not the
most celebrated texture.
Nia (46:24):
I have no idea.
So in the back of my mind I'mlike, either you have a lot of
heat damage on your hair, buteven like the way their hair
just weighs back up and I'm justlike even as a 4C it wouldn't
look like that, it's a certainlook you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I think too, that the curlchart, it's just, it should have
never happened.
Kinetra (46:44):
They should have never happened.
It's not even real.
You know, we only classified,as you know, based on the
texture, which is not 4c, youknow, it's just relatable, like
you know, like, even when yousay 4c, it's okay to say 4c,
because people know it yeahpeople are just listening, they
know that.
The idea of what that looks like, you know.
(47:05):
But I wish that, um, it's a waythat we could get rid of that
curl chart, curl pattern chartand get down to if it's coily,
curly, wavy, straight, highdensity, low density, medium
density, high porosity, low andmedium porosity, and then that's
when we're gonna really learnwho fits into what and also how
(47:27):
to even take care of your hair.
Nia (47:29):
Yeah, you know, yeah a thousand percent because, again,
as someone who has coily highdensity, fine hair, it's not the
same, and see you know this.
Kinetra (47:39):
Yes, like you know and you know, and I think, like,
even whenever you do start, ifyou ever start talking about
your hair, make sure you start.
Nia (47:47):
Yeah I want in that language.
Kinetra (47:49):
Yeah, I desire to, because I think that's another
reason why these people maythink that they are
quote-unquote 4c, because theydon't, I don't know, I don't
want to hear the channel, solet's talk about that.
You know them categorizingthemselves as 4c and they're not
in, you know, and all thethings that come with it.
I ask you, why do you thinkthey want to be categorized as
(48:12):
4C?
Nia (48:13):
I think that it's just a buzzword.
Kinetra (48:17):
Like a clout chase.
Yeah, to get views.
Nia (48:19):
Yeah, I a thousand percent think it's kind of like well,
see, any feel, any typesituation or whatever, and it's
just a buzzword and people arejust using it as a marketing
tactic and so forth, becausewhen I look at it I've just been
like, nope, me too I've seen itI've seen it, yeah and and so I
had a few, like a few followers.
(48:40):
Now, can I, can I name?
Can I drop a name?
please, okay, yeah, so jackie,aina, I love me some jackie um
jackie.
Is it lavish life jackie?
No, maybe is that on youtube.
That might be what it is.
How does she?
Oh, this is on youtube.
I know I don't know she's onyoutube instagram um.
Kinetra (49:01):
Do she wear her?
Nia (49:02):
hair like colored, is it blonde?
Kinetra (49:04):
yes, and she has like a perfume line yep, yep, she is
lavish, that's lavish, jackie.
Lavishly, jackie, she is thebomb.
Okay, yes, yes.
Nia (49:14):
So Jackie Aina has type four hair and, like she's to me,
has the closest curl pattern tomine.
But she's also colored.
That's why I said the closest,because she does have color and
it's possible that she could beright on the money if she didn't
(49:35):
have color.
But um, she's also, you know,used to be a licensed
cosmetologist so she, you know,also understands hair type and
all that.
So I love when she does herlike curl hair refresh.
I'm just like this is real,like I can see her.
You know she doesn't eventypecast her, her, essentially
she doesn't, like you know, butshe talks about it.
She talks about it and Ibelieve she's also high density.
I think she's.
I think she may have mentionedit was type 4, but just how she
(49:56):
cares for it and just likethat's the closest that I've
seen, it's definitely highdensity yeah, it's gorgeous.
Kinetra (50:04):
you know it's high density Because when she
stretched it I'm like it hassome length.
Yeah, it was gorgeous.
Nia (50:11):
Yeah, and I just wish there was more content, not
necessarily from her, but juston, and maybe I just haven't
found them, maybe I don't knowwho I'm looking for, but there's
a few people that I've comeacross on TikTok, but not so
much on Instagram.
I think there was one girl Ifound on instagram and like baby
(50:32):
, when I talk about shrinkage,baby, she got some shrink it's,
it's yeah, it's like pull, pull,pull, pull, yeah, um, yeah.
So I just think a lot of peopleuse it as a buzzword versus
like actually, or it could bethat they're, they just don't
know.
You know, it could be a lack ofum knowledge, so that's kind of
where it's like well, my hairdon't look like this, so it's
(50:54):
got to be this do you ever checkthe comments?
Kinetra (50:56):
and people also say like your hair is not 4c um, or
you don't go to the comments.
I love going to the comments.
Nia (51:02):
I love to see what people have to say it really depends,
because sometimes I I'm veryintentional of like I may want
to check the comments butsometimes, like in comment, I
kind of want to comment but atthe same time, like, oh, y'all
be wanting to tell us on thecomments and I'm trying to build
a brand.
Not trying to, I am building abrand and you know, I do know
that I have the right to put myfoot down as somebody who is in
(51:25):
the type four hair community andwho does understand it.
But it's like, but do I want totussle?
Kinetra (51:30):
in these comments.
No, it's not, because it'sendless and some people they are
on there to tussle exactly.
They're not on there to gain anunderstanding and share a
different perspective at all.
They're there, that's theirmission.
Honey, I ain't got time, okay.
Do you think social media hashelped or hurt when it comes to
how we value hair length in theblack community?
Nia (51:58):
That's a double edged sword .
I think that it shines a lighton the problems that we have
within our hair community.
Okay, I like that.
So it can be, which can behelpful and hurtful if you're
not careful, right, yeah, soagain, social media is this vast
(52:21):
platform.
You have the world at yourfingertips but, um, the language
, the, how we celebrate ordemonize stuff on social media
can be extremely hurtful.
However, educational, like thispodcast that's up on social
media, other platform, otherpeople who are doing very
(52:42):
similar work to deconstruct theway we view texturism and so
forth, is extremely helpful,because I want my daughter to be
able to come back and find thisepisode and be like my mommy
was talking about this 10, 12,you know whatever, how many
years ago, and you know, and shecan see why I value her hair
(53:03):
texture in the way that it is.
I mean it may be like mine, itmay be like her dad's, it may be
like, you know, genetics, baby,they can pull from way back,
absolutely back, back back.
They sure can.
Yeah, um, so, yeah, I just, Ijust I think that it just shines
the light on the problem and Ifeel like, as a people, we have
to be willing to do the work.
Kinetra (53:23):
I love that answer, I really do.
I.
I agree with you there.
When, even when you said adouble-edged sword, you know, um
, it's very eye-opening, yeah,you know, and it's making us, uh
, more aware of how we dointernalize, you know, our views
and perceptions on our hair,you know, if anything, it
(53:43):
definitely did, you know whetherunhealthy or healthy.
You know it's it really exposedit yeah, yeah yep.
How do you personally definebeauty for your hair today, and
how does that differ from howyou used to view it?
Nia (54:00):
I think my hair is the most darling thing.
Like I'll be telling my I'll belike man, my hair is so pretty.
Like my hair is just sobeautiful.
Like the fact that I can saythat and like feel it in my
bones, versus back in the daywhere you like you try to
convince yourself or somethinglike me personally, I would try
to, but be so frustrated andfeel so defeated and like not
(54:24):
understanding my hair type andhow to work with my hair type
and just be like you know, know,this is a buzz Like what is it?
The fact that I have theversatility and I also have
choice, I think has reallyhelped.
Like I have the choice if Iwant to be natural or if I don't
want to be natural, if I wantbraids, if I don't want braids.
(54:44):
The freedom yes, I love thatthe freedom, and I, I love that
the freedom, and I think thatthere is beauty in freedom.
And with that.
It's just like you know, like Iget to wear my hair and you
know and love the way it looksin its entirety, Curly or not,
defined or not.
Kinetra (55:16):
You know like I get to wear it and love the way it
looks in its entirety.
Do you still feel that way,even when you think about the
little girl that, I guess, madeyou, um, go back and revisit the
mirror?
Like you know what, I don'tknow if I like my hair anymore,
even today, like, do you stillfeel like you love your hair
opposed to back then?
Nia (55:24):
absolutely good, absolutely .
I think my natural journey hasbrought me back to where I was
when I lived it.
Like I feel, like I'm fullcircle.
We've we've made a full circlemoment.
Now it's just like all right,cool.
Are you grateful for theexperience?
Yes, yes, um, because withoutit I would be ignorant to my
hair type, to um the beauty ofmy hair, to the caring and
(55:48):
loving of my hair, and I'm in aspace where I'm not like, where
I was celebrated, where Icherish it and so forth.
Kinetra (55:55):
And it's good to have the experience of having to
reflect, you know, even if youdidn't have the experience of
seeing her, you know being ableto say, like her hair is
beautiful, but mine is too there, you go, yeah, but I still like
that you actually had to gothrough that, because it makes
you love yourself even deeper,you know.
(56:17):
So it's good that you actuallywent through it yeah, you learn
to love different things aboutyour hair.
It don't.
It don't have to look like hersin order to be beautiful, and I
don't need your externalcompliments to know that my hair
is beautiful as long as I knowit's beautiful.
Nia (56:32):
It is beautiful At the end of the day yeah, At the end of
the day, it defies gravity andit looks like a plant girl.
It looks like a little bush.
Kinetra (56:40):
It's like a tree, literally.
Okay, and remember, God madethose Exactly.
What would you say to someone?
Nia (56:54):
who's learning to love their high-density coily crown
but still feels like it's onlyvalid when it's stretched or
long.
Oh, be patient, you know, ifthey are high density and quote,
kinky quote like me, we, uh,the beauty industry, what we see
, what we see, even not justlike when we see, like, um, hair
(57:16):
care products and so forth,like we don't really see our
hair type, right, it's not thatoften and that's okay.
That's okay, we're just gonnabuild our own table, but please
be patient in the journey and,uh, if you need to like write a
love letter to your hair or justlike reframe the way you view
taking care of your hair, thatwas a big thing for me because,
(57:38):
you know, typically you hear, oh, wash days, it's a chore.
But you know, like, you hearthat you're internalizing that
and honestly, let's be honest,don't nobody willingly want to
wash dishes, but you have to,you know, unless you're gonna
have a dirty kitchen, right?
So if we use language like it'sa chore, it's a task, it's like
you're, you're saying to yourhair like you too much trouble,
I have to do it.
(57:59):
Yeah, because you know I don'twant to be looking motley but
you too much trouble, instead ofembracing it as a part of who
you are in your god-given designat the end of the day, be
patient.
We rework the framework and thelanguage that you use around
your hair.
That's what I would say tosomeone that was dealing with it
tell it, tell you, like, like.
It's beautiful.
(58:19):
But just, you also have tofigure out what products work
for you.
That is a huge part too,because not every products are
not one size fit all they're not.
Kinetra (58:27):
I'm glad you mentioned that they're not.
I don't care whose product itcan be, beyonce product, even
though it's being promoted as aone size fits fits all.
Nia (58:35):
It's not, it's impossible yeah, there's a lot of things
that go into it, so find oneword like take the time to find
out what works for you and bepatient.
Yeah, and just change thelanguage.
Kinetra (58:46):
Change the language.
Girl.
You took us to church with thatlittle quick sermon.
All right, no, seriously,because that's what we all need
to hear.
You know, when it comes to ourhair, yeah, or anyone that's in
that transitioning phase oftrying to learn how to receive
it in a healthy way.
And I love the comparison thatyou made about the dishes.
We don't like to do it, it'sgonna get done.
(59:15):
Yeah, you know, like, just doit, you know, and the more you
do it, the more easier it.
Do get you know, and over timeyou will learn to adjust that
mind frame and it won't be sucha quote-unquote task.
But, like you said, you have toreword how you speak to it.
Yeah, yeah.
Nia (59:26):
Yeah, you do.
You want to know who I thinkdoes a really good job.
I like Tabitha how she namedher.
Kinetra (59:34):
Oh, Tabitha is.
Nia (59:35):
Love her.
How she named her fro like.
Donna and I just be like youknow, maybe give your hair a
name and treat it as your bestfriend.
Yeah, because baby she takereal good care of Donna.
She do.
She do it as your best friend?
Yes, because baby she take realgood care of donna.
Kinetra (59:50):
She do, she do.
Nia (59:50):
I love that yeah caradonna, and I think, I think that's
beautiful.
Kinetra (59:53):
I I have yet to name my hair, but uh, you should, and
that's gonna grow the connectioneven more.
You're already there, yeah, andit's gonna make y'all tighter,
you, the relationship can alwaysget better, absolutely you know
, absolutely, absolutely,because it ain't going nowhere,
it's not going to change, it'stheirs exactly for sure.
Yeah, well, that's all I havefor you today.
(01:00:13):
I want to thank you again forblessing us with your presence a
second time.
I'm sure I'll have you on hereagain another time because I
really enjoy um ourconversations and I love how you
really get into it.
You know, you do you put yourall literally to everything you
do, so thank you.
Nia (01:00:33):
I really appreciate it.
I just do my best.
Kinetra (01:00:35):
Yeah, and you do.
You do a great job at it, honey.
Thank you, You're welcome.
Thank you.
If you've ever questionedwhether your texture was
beautiful enough, professionalenough or feminine enough,
please hear me when I say yourhair has never been the problem.
The problem has always been thepeople around you that told you
it had to look like somethingelse to matter.
(01:00:55):
But here's the truth Short,coily, dense, fine, high
shrinkage hair is beautiful.
It is sacred, it is enough.
Thank you for listening to hearwhat I'm saying.
If this episode resonated withyou, share with someone who
needs to hear it.
Please like, share andsubscribe to the podcast to stay
up to date with the latestupdates.
Want to add more to thisconversation?
(01:01:16):
Join us on Patreon.
As a member, you'll get accessto exclusive bonus episodes
behind the scenes content,limited ebooks, early access and
a community that's all abouthealing, growth and real talk.
Tap the link in the show notes.
We'll see you there.
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