The Mother & Daughter Story Behind Nylah’s Naturals with Kameese Davis

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Ever wondered how a mother's love can spark a revolution in the beauty industry? Kameese Davis, the founder of Nyla's Naturals, shares her incredible journey of creating a hair care brand inspired by her daughter Nylah's challenges with seborrheic dermatitis. Faced with the lack of suitable products for textured hair in the UK, Kameese turned necessity into innovation, crafting a line that not only addresses these needs but also promotes racial esteem and embraces natural beauty. Join us as Kameese discusses her mission to redefine beauty standards and the importance of nurturing a positive self-image for those with textured hair. In our conversation, we explore the cultural significance of understanding the unique hair care needs of Black children. Kameese and I address the longstanding issues of colorism and texturism, reflecting on personal stories that highlight the psychological impacts of these biases. Together, we emphasize the critical need to celebrate all hair textures, breaking away from societal norms that favor certain types over others. Through these discussions, Kameese's passion for empowering women and children shines, as does her commitment to fostering environments where natural beauty is not just accepted but celebrated. Kameese's entrepreneurial spirit is nothing short of inspiring, as she shares the challenges and triumphs of building a brand that bridges wellness and cosmetics for Black women. From walking away from undervalued business deals to securing shelf space in major retailers, Kameese's story is a testament to staying true to one's vision and values. As we discuss her future aspirations, including expansions into skincare and nutrition, Kameese's dedication to creating a holistic health hub for Black women becomes clear. Her story is a powerful reminder of the impact that personal values can have on work ethic and success, offering valuable insights for anyone looking to make a meaningful change in their community.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome back to another inspiring episode of
Hair what I'm Saying, thepodcast where beauty,
entrepreneurship and lifelessons meet.
I'm your host, kenetra, andtoday's episode is truly special
.
I'm sitting down with anextraordinary woman, kamis Davis
, the founder of Nylas Naturals,a brand that's not only
redefining natural hair care.
But was Davis, the founder ofNylas Naturals, a brand that's
not only redefining natural haircare, but was born from the

(00:28):
love of a mother for herdaughter?
Kamis' journey, rooted infamily science and sheer
determination, has led her tobecome a trailblazer in the
beauty industry.
We'll dive into her experiencesas a mom, her bold moves in
entrepreneurship and thepersonal moments with her
daughter in entrepreneurship,and the personal moments with
her daughter, nyla, that haveshaped her purpose.
So, whether you're a naturalhair enthusiast, a budding

(00:51):
entrepreneur or someone lookingfor a dose of inspiration,
you're in the right place.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart,and today we have Kamis of
Nyla's Naturals, all the wayfrom the UK, joining us.
How are you, kamis?
I'm great.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
How are you?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
I really do appreciate it.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And I appreciate you for having me.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Is this your first podcast?
No, oh no.
You like me, I'm a pro.
Oh, you like me, I'm a pro.
Yeah, I'm a pro.
Well, that's good to know.
At least you know the feelingof how it goes and flows.
So you know you become anatural, more than anything.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, just good, honest, open conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Absolutely For sure, okay, so we'll just get started.
If you ready, I'm ready, okay,okay.
Your daughter, nyla, inspiredthis incredible brand.
Can you share the story of herhair care journey and how it
sparked your mission to redefinetextured hair care?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, of course.
So when my daughter was born,she had seborrheic dermatitis,
which is a type of eczema thatsits on the scalp and it
manifests in like really largescales, a lot of dandruff, a lot
of significant itching, and Iwas searching for a natural,
plant-based product thatwouldn't aggravate the symptoms

(02:18):
of her eczema.
So while I found it relativelyeasy to find skincare products
that were natural andplant-based, I really struggled
to find a hair care productespecially being in the UK for
textured hair, afro hair thatdidn't have any of the raw
materials that would typicallyaggravate her skin condition.

(02:38):
So I started to do a lot ofresearch and I realized a couple
of things, right.
So one of the first things thatreally shocked me was
understanding the prevalence ofharmful ingredients that were
present in products marketed toBlack women.
This was something I hadn'tlooked in before into, but,

(02:59):
knowing that I really wanted toalleviate my daughter's symptoms
, I became ingredient consciousand I really started to deep
dive into like, what does thisname mean, what is this word and
what does it mean at the backof a label, and I was horrified.
So now it not only became aboutwanting to have a natural
product, it was a necessity,like I needed a product that

(03:23):
didn't contain any of theseharmful ingredients that, with
long-term use, could lead tosome of the health complications
that we're seeing in Blackwomen today.
And I think the second thingwas about racial esteem and
really wanting my daughter tonot have to undergo a process of
unlearning, and I'll expand onthat.

(03:45):
So you know, growing up as achild, I was always taught that
straighter hair was moredesirable, was beautiful, was
more in line with what thedefinition of Eurocentric
ideologies?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
for beauty was and.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I didn't want my daughter to have to unlearn that
process.
I just wanted her to know likeyour hair the way it grows out
of your head is absolutelybeautiful.
There's nothing wrong with it.
So I wanted her to have thatpride from an early age, because
I didn't have it, and so it nowbecame the need, became

(04:23):
something that would celebratemy daughter's heritage and her
hair, and then something thatwas non-toxic and that was
really the foundations forstarting this business, because
I realized that in the UK therewasn't anything.
There was several options inthe US and in fact, I initially
started to import things in.
So, you know, like Carol'sDaughter and other brands, I

(04:44):
started to import things in.
So, you know, like Carol'sDaughter and other brands, I
started to import them in.
But it became unsustainablebecause there's like the cost of
the product, the cost ofshipping, the cost of customs,
the lead time.
I was like, yeah, this can'twork.
So I was like, I'll just createit and, in a nutshell, that's
what inspired the brand.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh, wow, that's amazing.
I love how you elaborate thedepth of your why and it's so
inspiring.
I don't know many children whoare born with subordinatitis.
I usually see it more in adultsbehind the chair.
So I really love how you tookthat and you made something work

(05:25):
with that for you and yourdaughter and then also expanded
that to the world.
You know, it's a very inspiringstory.
I didn't expect that.
I thought it was going to belike something dealing with you
and your daughter personally.
You know which I'm sure it was,you know and but it was like a
medical concern more thananything you know, opposed to

(05:46):
the stories that I normally hear.
I normally hear you know herhair, just the products that
were, you know, on the market.
They were harmful and also hercurls or her texture, the
porosity, the density.
It just did not gravitate tothose products.
So I had to do something for us, and I know that there are

(06:07):
other black women out here alsostruggling with the same
concerns, so I made this productalso for them as well.
But to learn that it startedwith a medical condition, I'm
like whoa that I was notexpecting that you know.
So that's really good to knowand to hear and I really love
how you just channeled into thatand you made that work for you
and your daughter.
So that product it does, youknow, did it help with her scalp

(06:31):
condition or did you have tostill seek outside sources in
order to help her?

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, I love that question.
So one of the things that Ilearned really early on in the
process of developing productswas that I needed to incorporate
the knowledge of specialistswithin the whole formulation
process, because it's all goodand well saying you know I want
to develop a product, but I amnot a cosmetic scientist right

(07:00):
so I am just using my basicunderstanding of the perhaps
nutrient raw materials that Iwant to include in a product,
but not understanding how thoseproducts work in synergy with
one another and how they work tomaximize efficacy.
And another thing that wasreally important to me was
looking at skinification.

(07:20):
So how do we ensure that theskin and health of the scalp is
in an optimal condition?
And that's taking intoconsideration things like an
understanding of how melazesiainfects the acid mantile,
understanding the importance ofpH balance, looking at what are
the surfactants that are neededto cleanse the scalp without
stripping the hair of itsnatural oils and nutrients.

(07:42):
And in order to do that, therewas, you know, I needed to
involve a cosmetic scientist, Ineeded to involve a trichologist
and I also worked with adermatologist.
So ultimately, we developed aformulation that was mild enough
not to aggravate her conditionand also, um you know, designed

(08:02):
in a way that would showcase thebeauty of her hair, to keep her
hair in the optimum conditionand keep her scalp in the
optimum condition.
So, whilst I didn't create amedicated product that would
resolve the seborrheicdermatitis, what it did was give
me a product that wouldn'taggravate it.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Absolutely, because that's the challenge, right.
The challenge is finding theproducts that don't it, because
sometimes the flare ups arehappening because of the
products, the ingredients thatare in the products.
So the intention behind thehair product is very admirable,
you know, even though, like yousaid, it's not a cure but it's a

(08:39):
very mild product so that itdoesn't continue to flare up the
condition for anyone that wantsto experience your hair
products.
That's amazing.
As a mom, what challenges didyou face when caring for Nyla's
hair and how did that shape yourapproach to creating your
products?

Speaker 2 (08:58):
I guess you kind of already covered that, but if you
have more to elaborate, wewould love to hear um, I think,
just one of the challenges, um,and I I'm really careful, I
think, with how I phrase caringfor my daughter's hair.
So what I instead of challenges,I would say one of the areas

(09:19):
that I needed to learn wasgetting her to understand how to
care for her hair, especiallyas she she's older now, like
she's 14 now oh my goodness okayyeah, and there's a lot of
things that she naturally wantsto do with her hair in terms of
the versatility of it andwearing it in different styles,

(09:41):
and it's, without hindering hercreative expression and her
personal expression, stilltrying to reinforce the
importance of using mechanicalstyling choices that are not
going to harm her hair.
So I think that's one of thechallenges at the moment it's
finding that balance yes, um,and I, I suppose, as she's been

(10:06):
growing up, I I know Afro hair.
I'm quite obsessive, like I havea really weird obsessive
personality and when, when I'minterested by a topic, whatever
it might be, I come reallybecome quite fixated on it.
And so during that process Ireally deep dive into

(10:29):
understanding the needs of Afrotextured hair, so caring for it
wasn't really a challenge for me.
It was just more about ensuringshe understands it.
That's now become a challenge,yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
OK, and how is that journey so far?
Is she learning?
Uh, do you feel like she'sreceiving the information that
you are educating her on abouther hair?

Speaker 2 (10:52):
yeah, I mean, one of the things that, um, I love to
see is that she loves it rightfirst and foremost, she loves
her hair and watching that as amom is a very surreal and
beautiful experience, becausethe way in which she wears her
hair with pride at her young agein its afro, you know, in its

(11:15):
full force and beauty, is a waythat I never did until I got to
like my mid-20s.
You know I wouldn't ever diduntil I got to like my mid-20s.
You know I wouldn't wear myhair in that way.
Um, I thought the definition ofbeautiful was trying to
manipulate my hair intosomething that it just was not,
and so seeing her have thatpride and knowing that that is

(11:38):
because of what I've poured intoher, is a beautiful feeling,
and that is something else thatI do with my brand.
So we, we, teach like fostercarers um.
We teach adoptive parents, weteach social workers and really
look at how we can um integrateinto the the children's care

(12:01):
sector to ensure that allchildren have the same standard
of care, despite what evertransracial home they might be
in.
I don't know what it's like inthe US, but in the UK we don't
have enough black carers and, asa result of that, many children
are placed in homes where theadults don't understand their

(12:21):
personal care needs, and I'mlike on a mission to ensure that
every child appreciates theirhair type and every child has
the opportunity to understandits diverse beauty.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Absolutely it does.
It makes perfect sense.
I do see a wave of thathappening now.
You know where.
You do see the younger Blackyoung girls.
You know they are growing upappreciating their natural coils
and they are trying to learnhow to care for them.
There is a salon out here inAustin, texas, where she I don't
know how often she gathers agroup of Black little girls and

(12:58):
she teach them how to do theirhair.
Yeah, the salon is called the2911.
And that's, yeah, she does alot of things for the community.
But speaking on what you justsaid, you know, just
piggybacking on that, that'swhat she does.
That's what she do.
You know I didn't have this,that experience growing up, but
I did grow up with a lot offamily members that they didn't

(13:19):
intentionally, you know.
Tell me you know how we'rehaving to coach our daughters
today.
They didn't intentionally, youknow.
Tell me you know how we'rehaving to coach our daughters
today.
They didn't intentionally coachme.
I just so happened to beblessed to grow up with a bunch
of Black women in my family thatjust knew how to take care of
curly hair.
Nice, and so there was no needto like go get a relaxer.

(13:40):
It was actually talked againstat my age, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I grew up.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, I grew up like my aunts, my grandmother.
They were on my.
I was the one pressing for therelaxer and they were like no,
no, you're not getting a relaxer.
And I think I asked so muchthat my mom just folded and she
just gave in and she gave me therelaxer and the whole family
they were not happy about it,you know, yeah, yeah, so in the

(14:10):
same thing with my sister.
So we didn't grow up.
So when I hear these storiesI'm always intrigued, because
where I grew up it wasn't thesame experience for even my uh
friends.
We didn't grow up like that.
You know, the relaxer wasmerely by choice, it wasn't to
adjust to the European.
You know beauty at all, youknow.

(14:31):
So I'm always intriguedwhenever I hear.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
You know, I've never heard that, because you know
we've all heard of colorism andthe implications that colorism
has had on how we see ourselvesas black people and black women
right.
But I think another layer tothat is texturism.
Yeah texturism Right and youknow the looser your curl type,

(14:56):
for example Absolutely and morebeautiful your hair is seen to
be.
So it's amazing to hear thatyou were in a family and an
environment that didn't pushthat narrative.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yes, I was.
But I will say I did grow uparound friends that did hear
that the texturism part Rightbut not deemed as straighter, as
more beautiful.
It's just that the looser thetexture was, it was more
beautiful, More beautiful.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
So I did grow up around that.
For sure, that narrative, I didthe looser the texture, the
softer, the curl patternappeared to be yeah, the more
kinky.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
It was deemed nappy unruly unmanageable and I grew
up in that, in that space, yes,while difficult, all of that
kind of negative terms, and Ithink what's what's even more
challenging is.
We're still seeing that today,right, we're still seeing brands
favor women with looser hairtypes to push their products, as

(15:59):
opposed to working diverselywith all textures and all hair
types and all hair lengths Ithink we went into when we're
talking about the natural hairmovement.
We went into a phase where youum you know, in order to have
textured hair, it had to belooser um coiler hair that was

(16:21):
more okay now closer to peoplewho were of dual heritage or
closer to you know absolutelycentric standards of what a
suitable curl would be andanyone who had really tight,
kinky, textured hair.
It better be long for us to seeappreciate it if it wasn't long

(16:42):
appreciate it as something thatwe can still actively promote
and the fact is I mean I mightuse that might come for me, but
the fact is that you know wedon't have the same an as likely
as someone from a differentracial group, and that kind of

(17:06):
reinforces the importance ofcelebrating not only your
textures but all densities andall lengths and stuff, trying to
push this narrative that afrohair is only beautiful if it
comes in this certain package,in this way you know, absolutely
.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I could not agree more and I'm so happy you
brought up the texturism part,because if you wouldn't have, I
wouldn't even thought about it.
So I'm so happy you broughtthat up because I'm like, yeah,
we did experience that that one.
We experienced, for sure yeah,yeah, and I appreciate you for
bringing it up, because theother one I didn't experience,

(17:43):
but that one for sure, um directimmediate family too.
You know, yeah, definitelyexperienced that and that kind
of sorry, carry on and I wasjust gonna say, and it comes
with it.
you know, it comes with its ownpsychological challenges as you
grow up.
You, you know, maybe I don'twant to alter it and make it

(18:06):
straight, but I am longing for alooser curl pattern.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Do you have any special haircare moments that stand out as
defining memories between youand your daughter as defining?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
memories between you and your daughter.
I don't think I have a specificmoment, but what I do, and have
always done with my daughter'shair, is create a ritual of us
really being able to spendquality time together and really

(18:48):
making sure that the hair umcaring process was a time for us
to bond yeah, um you know justas mother and daughter, but
really rooting that in cultureand rooting that in an
understanding of who we are asyou know, a black woman and then
a young girl that's developinginto a black woman.
Yeah, because, as I said,everything that I try try and do

(19:10):
with my daughter is trying toreinforce that racial esteem,
because I really do think that'sthe foundation of self-esteem I
really do and that is beingproud of the racial group in
which you belong, understandingour heritage, our history, our
contributions to society and ourunique and very beautiful

(19:31):
racial characteristics.
So I, you know I created spacefor that in caring for her hair.
I remember the process of megetting my hair done wasn't
always one that was, you know,desirable.
I remember getting chopped withthe comb and hair togged and
told how difficult my hair isand how hard it is to manage and

(19:52):
how nappy it is, and thatcreated, or perhaps reinforced
the belief that my hair wasn'tgood enough.
Um, so for my daughter, I justwanted to really flip that on
its head and completely changethe narrative, and I think
that's contributed to her senseof pride in her appearance that
she has now.
So, yeah, that's what I am,that's what I do with my

(20:13):
daughter and we've also createdsome resources as a brand to
help to kind of promote thattype of practice for moms with
daughters.
So we have a children'sstorybook, we have an activity
book and we have a hair guidefor moms to really say you know
the process of caring for yourdaughter's hair is rooted in

(20:36):
history and rooted in bondingand it's really important to
take half the time out, reallycarve that time out to enjoy the
process.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, because it was not like that when we were
growing up.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
It was not like that.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
You know it was traumatizing more than anything,
which is why we had such anunhealthy attachment to it.
You know it was.
You know, even though, eventhough you know we were embraced
to wear our natural curls, theprocess was not a bonding moment
and girl.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I don't know about you, but my family are jamaican
right, omg, yeah, yeah, the hotcomb came out.
Yeah, this came out, it was.
It was a painful andtraumatizing process, it sure
was, and then I think also likeour generally, our hair care
practices were just flawed likelooking back at some of the

(21:35):
things that my mom andgrandmother would promote as
like standard ways to care foryour hair, it's no wonder we
never had no hair do you knowwhat I mean, because we just
didn't know how to promote thatlength retention?
yeah, you know, moisturizing,cleaning the scalp we just
things that we didn't do, andnow that we have the information

(21:55):
and the knowledge is prevalent,there's a lot of crap.
Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
There's a lot of crap on the internet some of it
infuriates me, to be honest, butI think when you be through
that, you can find some reallygood information for just loving
your hair and caring for it inthe right way absolutely.
I completely agree with you forsure, and thank you for sharing
and elaborating on that.

(22:19):
That was good information foreven myself to hear, so I love
that all righty.
So we're going to move on totalking about motherhood and
entrepreneurship.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, I still don't know what I'm doing.
I know.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
It's like it's a journey.
I think it's going to be one ofthose everlasting journeys.
You know Balance and motherhoodwith entrepreneurship can be
demanding.
How has N nyla's presenceinfluenced your work ethic and
your drive to succeed?
Um?

Speaker 2 (22:59):
so firstly, I would say I have two children.
Oh okay and bless him, don'tget no attention because he has
no business named after him.
But I also have a son who'seight okay um, and I would say
that my children are one of mybiggest not the only biggest
drivers, but definitely one ofthe key pillars for my

(23:22):
commitment and discipline Right.
It's great to say motivation butto be honest with you, my
motivation wanes from day to day, like some days right, and then
other days I'm good to go, soyeah discipline is way more
important than motivation.
Of committing to doing the bestI can every day is definitely

(23:45):
rooted in me wanting to be anexample to my children of what
being a business leader and abusiness person looks like, and
being an example to my childrenof following things through um
and doing the best that you canevery day.
So there are there's been timeswhen I've wanted to walk away

(24:07):
with it from it all like I can'tlie to you.
There's been times where it youknow it's been really tough.
I've had challenges, I'mdealing with other people in
business that are making my lifeway harder than it needs to be,
and it can be exhausting and Ifeel to myself you know what I
can have soft life right now.
My partner's an entrepreneur hecan care for me.

(24:29):
I don't have to do this um, butI think one her.
Her name is the brand um andthat's really important to me,
that she sees um how far we cantake it and um you know number
two it's um being that livingexample for them.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I love that.
I keep saying, I loveeverything you say, but it's
just so good.
Oh, my goodness, what does itmean for you to create products
that not only help Nyla embraceher natural beauty, but also
inspire confidence in otheryoung girls and women?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Oh God, I'm a crier, so I'm holding good, I've cried
on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
So if you have to cry , it's okay, I've cried on.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
It really hit me um.
People often ask me like whatare your proudest moments?
And I guess the expectation is,you know, having this much
turnover, or you know like yourproducts have done this for my
family and my daughter Like Ihad a mum.

(26:02):
I'll give you an example.
I had a mum who was a Europeanfrom Ireland and she had married
a Ghanaian and they had a mixedrace daughter.
And she had married a Ghanaianand they had a mixed race
daughter and she just didn'tknow she just didn't know how to
care for her daughter's hair atall.
And she sent us a message onInstagram out of desperation and

(26:26):
I happened to see it, becausewe've obviously got a team that
support with social media and Ihappened to see this message and
I immediately reached out and Iwas like, can we have a call?
And we had a call and we had aconversation about challenges
her daughter was experiencingwith her hair, her daughter
saying that she wishes she hadhair like her mum.
She hates the fact that she'sbiracial.
She hates the black side of her, all rooted all rooted in the

(26:50):
fact that her hair was, you know, knotted, and mom just didn't
understand how to showcase itsbeauty, and so I sent her some
products completely free ofcharge.
I taught her through theprocess and then she emailed me
back and she was just likehere's the before and after Look
at my daughter's smile.

(27:11):
She's now saying how proud sheis of having, like two parents
from different ethnicities andto know, that I contributed to
that little girl's sense ofpride and self-esteem, like it's
a really meaningful thing forme.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
I'm sorry, I'm crying but I'm trying to hold back.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
And she's not the only one.
Like I have messages from othermothers.
I have messages from women,women in their 60s.
You know, one woman said to meshe sent a message on social
media and she said I'm 68 yearsold and this is the first time
in my life that I've used aproduct that showed how

(27:52):
beautiful my hair is that for me.
If anyone tells me my success toyou, that is success to me like
it's probably not the typicalversion of success, but it does
mean to me that I've createdsomething that is successful and
that is appreciated, and thatI'm making changes.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Congratulations.
I'm so sorry.
No, you're good, I'm justfighting them back.
That was beautiful and that'sthe most meaningful success.
That's the success you cannotbuy.
You know that's the successthat is extremely hard to
achieve.
You know there are so manyother ways to you know achieve.

(28:37):
You know, even when you firststarted the journey, I'm sure
you didn't even know what youwere going to do.
You know, in that moment it wasjust about, you know, finding a
solution for your daughter andthen taking that and knowing I
can help other people, but notknowing, oh, I'm going to help
them internally too, not justfrom the external aspect of it

(28:59):
all, but also emotionally, sothat they can have healthier
relationships with themselvesand accept themselves for
exactly who they are.
And that's empowering to beable to place a stamp like that,
so deep, on someone.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
So you know, 68 years old, that's a long time to find
a solution for your hair care,right, it's a long time to be
existing in a mindset that tellsyourself that all of you is not
good enough set that tellsyourself that all of you is not

(29:38):
good enough and knowing that mybrand, my, my creation, my
contribution to the world,whatever it evolves into, it's
already done that yeah, and Ithink for when I think about the
vision of the brand, like wereally want to look at how we
can bridge the gap between thewellness space and the cosmetic

(29:59):
space for.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Black women.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Like how can we champion wellness, well-being
and personal care and personalpride?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
for Black women in the products that we are
creating.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
And that is our goal.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Absolutely, and you're doing it.
You're doing it.
I'm just happy.
Now my listeners will haveexposure to your product as well
.
It deserves a platform for sure, everywhere, and I really hope
you know this, you know whatyou're doing I want it to be
this worldwide, internationally,nationally, known, because of

(30:41):
where it's deeply rooted in.
You know you didn't jump in abeauty business to make money.
You know that is a part of thegoal.
You know you have to in orderto take care of your family.
You know that is part of it.
But the goal where you havethat you've reached is much
bigger.
You know, and it deserves to beknown.

(31:03):
You know people need to betapped in to.
You know what's going on withyou so that they can also have
an, you know, just a privilegeof knowing.
You know there is help outthere for you because we're
still trying to figure it out.
You know we're still trying tofigure it out.
We're still there's still.
You know so many people, somany beauty brands, so many

(31:24):
celebrities are entering intothe beauty world, but not with
this purpose not with thispurpose.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, I mean it's, it's an an attractive, it's an
attractive market right, it'sworth billions absolutely.
It's got a compound annualgrowth weight that is insane
when compared against othermarkets, but for me it was never
about how rich can this?
Make me if I, if I wanted tolook at you, know something that

(31:55):
would get us there quicker.
There's other vehicles for that.
For me it was.
I think my sense of purpose ishow can I contribute to the
Black woman's self-esteem?

Speaker 1 (32:07):
And that's what I hear.
That's exactly what I hear.
Yeah for sure, that's exactlywhat I hear.
Yeah for sure.
Okay, so we're going to talkmore about your passion and your
business, like how you grewthat from a passion to your
business.
Yeah, what motivated you toturn your personal experiences

(32:36):
into a thriving business whilemanaging so many roles in?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
your life.
I guess you've answered it, butif you have, more.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
we always want to know more.
Yeah, I mean, I can talk to youabout our brand, elasticity and
I suppose why wellness is now aintegral focus for us.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
So I was diagnosed SADS.
Law is a thing, right.
I was diagnosed with a type ofalopecia which is really
progressive and aggressive.
It's called CCCA and it startsat the center of your head and
it causes scarring and itexpands out and it's progressive

(33:09):
and a lot of times when womenreceive the diagnosis of ccca,
it's so late in their journeythat the scarring has damaged
the follicles and the likelihoodand the prognosis of re-growing
hair is like literally 0.5percent.
It's like it's ridiculouslysmall.

(33:30):
In fact, the likelihood isyou'll never grow hair again in
that space where they'rescarring and I was diagnosed
with that, whilst having a haircare brand and it was
devastating because I'm losingmy hair and then I'm having to
mask it, camouflage it, hide itbecause having a hair care brand

(33:50):
and having hair loss, doesn'tgo hand in hand, and then I
remember having like just, youknow a vulnerable moment.
as you guys can see, I'm a crierbut having a vulnerable moment
with my partner and he said tome turn that pain into purpose.
Um, he was like, you know hair,you know, um, you understand

(34:19):
trichology, you know the peopleto tap into, like what can you
do and what?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
can you create for?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
black women who are going through something similar
to you and then, in that processof, you know, going to see
dermatologists getting anofficial diagnosis.
I then started to look okay,what are the raw materials that
I can start to incorporate in asystem and a formula?
To help to combat the CCA thatI'm experiencing in two
meaningful ways.

(34:43):
The first way is controlling theinflammation so it doesn't
progress into scarring.
The second way is encouragingfollicular regeneration and the
second way is encouragingfollicular regeneration and
reactivating those dormant cells.
And where is the science andwhat does it say around these
two things?
And what can I create to kindof deliver a system of support

(35:03):
for Black women?
So, whilst you're going throughthe medical process because I
do encourage you, do go and seea doctor if you're experiencing
hair loss there is something tosupport you, to slow down the
progression of that type ofalopecia, and that's what we've
created, you know so we've usedclinically proven actives.

(35:24):
We've gone through a consumertrial with a panel of 15 women
who had different types of hairloss.
I recently had anotherdiagnosis for my CCA and scalp
biopsy and they've come back andthey've said whilst we see
evidence of inflammation.
We don't see any evidence ofscarring.
So now we're not sure whetheryou have this at all.

(35:44):
So it's like that's now been mycentral focus, because I'm
seeing so much crap online wherepeople are promoting like shea
butter and rosemary oil andcastor oil and rice, water and
avocado mass by Cardi B and somuch foolishness.

(36:05):
I'm going to just say it yeah,where there is not a lot of
scientific data behind that, andwhat that creates is it taps
into and feeds into thedesperation of women who are
losing their hair something thatI understand you'll try
anything when you're losing yourhair and then it, it um.
It monetizes their desperationand profits of it where where we

(36:29):
go in as a brand.
We want to say look first oflet's get you a thorough
diagnosis right.
We need to be looking at bloods.
We need to get you to your GPor your medical provider.
We need to do clear tests tounderstand what the root cause
is of your hair loss.
And whilst we're going throughthat process.
Here are products that can helpto slow down and keep the health

(36:51):
of the hairs, the folliclesthat are viable, to keep them
viable whilst we'reunderstanding what's going on
and then looking at what thebody needs from a nutritional
perspective, like what are thekey supplements that are
responsible?
For that stem cell regeneration?
How can we deliver thosesupplements to you in a way

(37:11):
that's designed for hair, skinand nails?
That's meaningful for hair,skin and nails?
That's meaningful.
That isn't just a label that isbased on science and evidence.
So, that's what we're nowlooking at introducing to our
community, and we'll belaunching that in quarter one of
next year.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Oh, I love that.
That's like the intent you knowthat you are creating behind
your product.
It has so much meaning.
It's not just a product thatyou're just pushing out, because
there are so many brands thatare already created out here and
the only thing you have to dois just put your name on the
label.

(37:47):
Like you know, they're doing itand they don't know any.
There's no research, nointention that is placed.
You know from these uh I Idon't know what you want these
hair suppliers.
You know they're not puttingany intent, any focus, any um,
real hardcore foundation to knowexactly what that product is

(38:10):
going to do for their consumer.
And those are the brands that Iabsolutely hate because you
don't even know what yourproduct is.
You can't educate me on yourproduct if you don't know what
it is, if you're just buying itfrom I don't know what it's
called, but those companies thatRetail ready.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah, retail ready.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's what it is when you're purchasing from a
retail ready, you have no ideawhat the core of that foundation
and that product is going to dofor those potential consumers.
So what are you exactlypromoting?
You know so, listening to yourstory, and all the intent and
all the focus and all theeducation that you are learning

(38:55):
in order to make sure youdeliver that product for these
consumers who have these similarexperiences with you or just
need something to retain theirhair care.
Yeah, I am just through theroof proof.

(39:19):
I'm just so proud to hear andlisten and know that there are
people in the business thatstill have a passion for hair
care and, you know, not justfrom the monetary gain that they
can, you know, get from it, youknow.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I mean I have a passion for Black women.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I have a passion for black women I have.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
I have a deep desire to ensure that we get the best
and however I can contribute tothat, I'm going to contribute to
that right and you know there'sbeen um, so we did with um just
at the latter stages of ourconsumer trials, and all but one

(39:52):
of those women have experiencedsignificant growth during that
process, which has lasted forfour months, and the one person
who didn't.
What I told her at thebeginning was your hair loss is
unfortunately at the stage whereyou've caused permanent damage

(40:12):
and I don't think that this isthe right solution for you and
what we're willing to do is,we're willing to get you your
referral back to yourdermatologist, which we did.
We wrote to the doctors, got thereferral to the dermatologist.
We're looking at getting hersome emotional support and
counseling so she can focus onacceptance.
We're looking at making surethat she can have access to you

(40:34):
know units and wigs and waysthat she can still wear her hair
and feel beautiful um, but youknow, unfortunately, it's
getting her to accept thatyou've.
You've just left it too late,and I don't mind doing that?
I don't mind saying to women Idon't want you to spend your
money here because, we're notthe right solution for you.
What we need to do is get youback to your health care

(40:57):
provider so you can get the typeof support you need.
And it might be that you need amore aggressive, medicated
approach to your hair growth andthat's fine.
Because I, you know, we're not,we're not able to sell.
You know drug type products andyou might need that.
And it's having that intentionand that integrity for me, which

(41:17):
is really important.
So I make it very clear on whowe can help and who we have to
help in a different way.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Absolutely so.
You are focused on theintegrity of your business as
well, which?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
is great.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, the integrity is important and that's
appreciated and that also buildsloyalty and trust.
You know, even if they can't,you know, become a consumer,
they will be more than willingto spread the word.
You know, because they knowthat they can trust.
You know what you're saying andwhat you're pushing, because,
instead of you quote, unquote,misleading them and telling them

(41:53):
yeah, my product can do this,my product, you know, it's like
no, I can't help you here, buthere's an additional resource,
and that is more important thananything.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Exactly, and I've seen far too many brands
showcase images of people whohave clearly got scarring
alopecia and then you know anafter image that doesn't even
look like the same person.
And it's right, it's.
It's really dishonest and we'renot about that as a company.
We're we're integrity first yes, for sure that's that, we're

(42:25):
integrity first.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Absolutely love that, love that.
Uh, walking away from aDragon's Den deal was bold.
We are really shifting theconversation now.
Walking away from a Dragon'sDeal was bold.
What lessons did you take fromthat experience?

(42:47):
And how did Nyla react toseeing you on TV?
How did she react to that andhow did you?
How?

Speaker 2 (42:57):
did you make such a bold decision?
So the reaction she reactedwell, she reacted better than me
.
I still have PTSD from watchingthat show.
I'm still like, oh Lord, andit's not international as well.
I'm like, lord, you really needto get this crying thing over
control.
But yeah, um, walking away fromthe offer at the time, um, I

(43:23):
just had to.
I didn't know, I had no ideawhether or not I was making the
right decision um at the time.
Oh, it was as some people say,it was bold at the time, it was
very scary it was a scary movebut what I knew was.
I knew that she didn'tunderstand the value of what I

(43:46):
was bringing to the table.
Like that was clear.
I felt undervalued and I feltdisrespected um in not
necessarily just her offer, buther understanding of how
important what I was doing wasfor the Black community.
And I felt that if I took heroffer I wouldn't.

(44:11):
I didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
I would grow the business in the way that I
wanted to right.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
I felt that I would have been more stifled than
really being able to accelerateour growth, and what I decided
was that I would have been morestifled than really being able
to accelerate our growth, andwhat I decided was that I would
rather go it alone and not knowwhat the outcome is and work
damn hard to try and get thereand it might not work out, but

(44:37):
I'm prepared to do that asopposed to going into a deal
where I felt that I wasn'tappreciated valued and.
I would be stifled.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Absolutely.
And who would want?
I wouldn't want to do businesswith people who did not
understand where I was comingfrom emotionally, because how
can I trust you to help me growand elevate this product if you
don't understand my reason why?

Speaker 2 (45:07):
you know exactly and not not just only the emotion,
because I really feel like shebelieved in me as an
entrepreneur.
What I felt that she didn'tunderstand was the landscape of
the business, and nor was she,in my opinion, willing to take

(45:27):
the time to understand that in ameaningful way um, and I just,
yeah, I just I didn't want that,so I walked away with my pocket
yeah, and you know it, itworked out.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
It did and I'm happy that you did not give in for
something so short term, youknow, because you could have
easily given in based on yourfear, even though you know you
said it was.
In that moment it didn't feelbold, you were scared, but fear
in a way of giving in and alsounderstanding that this is not

(46:04):
the right fit.
You know being, you know,tapped in to the awareness at
the time to know I could makethis happen this way.
But this is not the direction Isee for my brand.
You know, some people getdesperate and they just give in
you know, but you weren'tdesperate enough to make such a

(46:32):
decision that could not benefityou, or you know that your
vision couldn't come intofruition the way that you
envisioned it.
You know, I don't know if Icould have been so bold, you

(46:52):
know, I think I would have beenlike, okay, who knows, you know,
but maybe not, because maybeunderstanding and knowing what I
have for my brand, I probablywouldn't have either and would
have.
Just, you know, because I knowthere's additional resources out
here as well.
You know, this is not the allin.
You know, because I knowthere's additional resources out
here as well.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
You know, this is not the all-in.
You know, girl, there'sadditional resources and you
know, at the time when I wentinto the den, I had gone into
the den at the wrong time andthat's what one of the other
dragons had said to me.
He was like you are here at thewrong time.
Um and I see it now inhindsight had I had gone in just
a year later where I reallystarted to implement our

(47:26):
marketing strategy.
It would have been a completelydifferent offer and a completely
different experience.
I really believe that.
So it's you know, sometimes therevenue is what people look at
to determine the viability of acompany?
Yeah, and at the time, ourrevenue didn't reflect the size

(47:49):
of the opportunity in the market.
But you know, a year later wewere, you know deeply six-figure
company and that's justcontinued to grow and accelerate
.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, so getting into Boots andSuperdrug was a massive
milestone.
What did that moment mean foryou and your family?

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I think for me the moment became really real for
want of better words when Iwalked into our local store and
I seen the product on shelf andthat was a that was an amazing
moment.
You know, walking in I took mydaughter with me and you know I

(48:38):
was like look, and she looked inthe shelf and she seen the
product and that was that wasincredible look.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
and she looked in the shelf and she seen the product
and that was that was incredible.
That was incredible.
Yeah, especially growing upseeing other people's products
on the shelves.
You're not thinking like, ohyeah, I'm going to have my own
brand one day and it's going tobe on the shelf of a you know of
some store.
You know, I bet that was such asurreal moment.
You know it was.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
It was.
What emotions were youexperiencing during that time?
I think it was a sense of pride.
I was very proud of ourproducts and my efforts, I also
felt motivated to keep going.

(49:23):
You know it felt like a keypoint in the journey of my
entrepreneurial life cycle.
Yeah, one that I willdefinitely remember it was a
cool moment.
Definitely remember it was acool moment.

(49:46):
But you know, from a businessperspective that created other
challenges to the business thatI didn't foresee at the time.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah for sure.
So rewarding Like my hard workis paying off.
You know you take a science-ledapproach to your products.
How did you ensure Nyla'sNaturals would deliver real,
effective results for texturedhair?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
So we, I think the first thing that we needed to do
was find a cosmetic scientistthat was passionate about their
own sorry innovation.
Um, that was really importantto us.
We when we embarked on thejourney of um looking for a
cosmetic scientist, because atfirst I think I started like a

(50:32):
lot of people that was creatingproducts at home and I was like,
nah, this ain't it right.
Like it really didn't have theperformance that I wanted and I
wasn't willing to put that onthe market.
Um, so we started going throughcosmetic scientists and I went
through a lot, honestly, becausewhat I was asking them to do at

(50:53):
the time was so novice, right,I was literally rolled into
these meetings with this longlist of no's like you can
absolutely not use any of theseraw materials that you are
accustomed to using for productsfor black women, and that was
really challenging them to workin a different way, because it

(51:14):
was like oh, we use this, thisand the other and I'm like yeah,
you're not using that, you knowso um, that was hard and then
it was um also I.
I knew what raw materials Iwanted, so I started to go to
like all of the cosmetic showsand you know all of the raw
material shows, like incosmetics, etc.

(51:36):
Scs in the UK and I started tocome across some fantastic you
know, biomimetic, science-based,clinically evidence-backed raw
materials.
Um, but one of the problemsthat I encountered was they were
like.
You know, this cost 40 poundsper kg and our minimum order

(51:58):
quantity is 500 kg.
I'm like what, oh my?

Speaker 1 (52:03):
goodness, I'm a new brand.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I'm completely self-funded.
I do not have the means, thecapacity to kind of make that
investment and it became anegotiation.
So I would have to negotiatewith the raw material suppliers,
I had to negotiate withcosmetic scientists and it was
like yeah, you know, I'm small,I have this little idea, but it
has the potential for this andthese are the reasons why it's

(52:28):
important so really getting themto bite into that, that story
and that narrative right.
And I think in having thosevery open and honest
conversations I was able to getaccess to raw materials that I
think products marketed to thecommunity didn't have typically
have access to, and also reallyencourage cosmetic scientists to

(52:51):
think outside of the the boat,and eventually we found a
cosmetic scientist that was atrichologist that understood
afro textured hair himself, andtherefore the process of
creating products became um, alot more, I wouldn't say
straightforward but the theprocess of innovation was more

(53:15):
enjoyable because they had ateam that was ready to embark on
that journey with me.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yeah, okay, I love that.
I'm so happy someone waswilling to work.
I've tried it before.
I've tried it before trying tocreate my own natural hair
products and it was so muchpushback, so much pushback and,
like you said, the investment isvery expensive and the only

(53:44):
problem I kept running into wasthey just didn't want to listen
to what I wanted, what Ienvisioned, and I think I just
gave up.
It got to a point where I waslike, okay, I found the company
and then they wanted to be oneof those retail ready companies.
I'm like that's not what wediscussed and that's what we
were, that's not what weinitially agreed, and I just

(54:06):
stopped altogether.
I was like I'm tired.
I'm glad you didn't give up.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
It's not easy and there were many times where I
gave up.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
There were many times I was like no, I can't.
I gave up.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Like there were many times I was like no, I can't.
One of the things that I say tomyself is you only get one day,
you only get one day to cry.
You only get one day to see inyour emotions.
I give you that one day becauseyour emotions also need time to
be present and they also needacknowledgement.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
They need time to um to be present, and they also
need um acknowledgement right,they need time to be
acknowledged.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Pushing them away, I think isn't healthy, um, and
then the next day I'm like okay,that's done, let's crack on.
And I got pushback, I got no's,I got, you know pretty much, um
much, um, underestimated,undervalued, um, everything that
you can think of in terms of anegative experience in trying to

(55:08):
create something.
I experienced it, but for me itwas like okay, you're not my
partner, it's one step closer tofinding my partner that's
always one step closer tofinding my yes, and that was the
attitude that I had insearching for not only a
manufacturer.
Sorry, not only a cosmeticscientist, but a manufacturer
willing to work with methroughout all stages of our

(55:29):
journey.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, I congratulate you and applaud you and I love
how you set these emotions on atime frame emotions on a time
frame, but also tapping in hereand saying, not looking at this
as a negative setback, but moreof a as a positive reinforcement
.
You know this is I'm gettingcloser, because now I have you

(55:52):
out the way.
I know that you can't createthe vision.
I am getting closer, you know,to whoever these people are.
That's for me.
I love that.
You know to whoever thesepeople are.
That's for me.
I love that you use that ineveryday life.
You know, not just for this,but anything in life.
You know, and it's such a goodmind space to operate in and
that's why you are as successfulas you are today because of the

(56:16):
mindset.
It always started in themindset.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Mindset.
I think, yeah, you, you know,mindset is so important it is an
entrepreneur, like literally inanything that you decide to put
your attention to any goal thatyou have um, having a growth
mindset is really, reallyimportant.
And you know, for me, one of thethings that I tell myself is

(56:40):
there are no mistakes, there arejust lessons.
Yeah, so, even with you know,for me one of the things that I
tell myself is there are nomistakes, there are just lessons
.
Yeah, so, even with you know,the whole walking away from the
dragon's den thing I was like,okay, there's, this is going to
be a lesson, there's going to besomething in here that is going
to contribute to the woman thatyou are becoming.
If you use that in the right wayright so every, every hurdle,

(57:01):
every failure it can besomething that completely knocks
you off the kilter and youdon't get up from, or you can
sit and say okay, where is thelesson here and how is that
contributing to my growth?

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Because I think, if you use the right way,
everything can contribute toyour growth.
Absolutely For sure.
Love that.
As a Black woman entrepreneurin the beauty industry, what
challenges have you faced andhow did you overcome them?

Speaker 2 (57:32):
I think, just being a Black woman who's an
entrepreneur, nevermind thebeauty female entrepreneur.
And then let's put the black ontop of that it's challenging,
Like we all know the statsaround black women getting the
financial resources that theyneed to execute on their vision

(57:55):
and their strategy right.
I think in the US it's 0.35% interms of how much investment
Black women receive, and in theUK it's 0.02% of investment
goals to.
Black women 0.02%, and themajority of that goes to Black
women who are London?
Based and I'm in Birmingham.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
So that's going to start breaking it down even more
.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
It's it's near impossible um, and I think one
of the biggest challenges that Ihad was navigating that
financial space and reallypresenting the business and the
opportunity to predominantlywhite, male investors, because
we're in the UK and when we lookat um again, stats

(58:45):
predominantly, though, that'sthe demographic of people who
are investing right um.
So it was you know.
I think that was one of themost difficult periods, and it's
still a difficult um periodbecause we're constantly looking
at fundraising activities.
You know I've got big ambitions.
That requires a big budget yes,um, but I managed to find an

(59:12):
investor who was passionateabout um, not only what I, what
I was doing, but passionateabout evening the playing field
for women and for people ofcolor.
And my VC investors and myangel investors.
They are passionate aboutensuring that people who are

(59:32):
capable of building businesseshave the financial resources,
whatever their demographic youknow wherever they come from and
they have been amazing.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
My lead angel investor.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
He was the former CEO of Revolution Beauty.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
It's a global company that turned up like 300 billion
.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
So you know he's already got an understanding of
the space and he's bringing thatknowledge to us.
So I think to answer yourquestion without elaborating too
much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
That was one of my challenges and perhaps again one
of the proudest moments to haveovercome that challenge and I'm
glad you share that because, asyou said, it's still a
challenge for most, and so yourinformation that you just shared
will let another Black womanknow.
You just haven't found yourpeople, just keep going.

(01:00:27):
You just haven't found yourperson, just keep going and
knowing that these are justlittle minor setbacks to help
you get there where you'resupposed to be, in that space
that you're supposed to be in.
So I'm so happy you shared thatbecause it's extremely
relatable for any blackentrepreneur, any female black
entrepreneur out here, no matterwhat career you are trying to

(01:00:50):
pursue.
It's just extremely relatableacross the board.
It's a universal, relatablesituation.
You know, yeah, yeah.
What myths or misconceptionsabout Afro and textured hair do
you hope to dismantle throughyour hair product?
Oh no, through you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Down to a few.
Yeah, one of the things that Iwant to dismantle is the notion
that Afro textured hair isdifficult.
You know it's.
It's, in my opinion, one of themost beautiful textures.

(01:01:31):
I think every hair texture hasits own beautiful characteristic
.
But the versatility of Afrotextured hair and the way in
which we, as a community andculture, have learned how to do
these very intricate um, youknow styling choices, but not

(01:01:52):
only that, how we influenceculture, right, you know how we
influence people around usthrough our styling choices it's
amazing.
It is.
So I want to dismantle thenotion that black afro textured
hair is difficult and that it'sundesirable, but I also want to
dismantle some of the myths thatexist in the textured hair

(01:02:15):
space as it relates to hair careand hair growth.
Um, and I want to startreplacing that understanding
with hard facts and science.
Um, one of the things that Ithink really frustrate me is the
notion that black hair or cangrow as long as any other hair

(01:02:37):
type and again, I'm reallycareful in how I say that,
because I think that it's rootedin a lot of misunderstanding,
and there are examples, ofcourse, of black women who have
achieved really, really, reallybeautifully long hair but the
fact is, the InternationalInstitute of Dermatology tested

(01:02:58):
over a thousand women and ouranagen phase is shorter than
women of other racial and ethnicgroups.
Like our, anagen phase is fourto five years maximum.
An Asian woman can be up to 10years.
A white woman can be up to seventherefore, we cannot expect to

(01:03:19):
get the same type of length as awoman who is of Asian origin,
and I think that understandingwill lead to acceptance of where
your terminal hair growth isand how to kind of maximize the
length retention, but be contentwith where your hair growth is

(01:03:39):
Like.
Your anagen phase might only betwo years and it's rooted in
genetics and there's not muchyou can do to change that.
So I think I get just I getfrustrated with seeing women who
are constantly searching forthis miracle growth product
that's gonna give themRapunzel-like hair, when

(01:04:00):
genetically we just don't havethat capability.
I think that's one of the themRapunzel-like hair, when
genetically we just don't havethat capability.
I think that's one of the mythsthat I'd like to bust.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
The second one, I suppose, is routine, not to
interrupt you, but let ourlisteners know what the antigen
phase is.
Let them know that.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
So the hair grows in cycles um everyone's hair grows
in cycles and there are threemain cycles some people say four
, but three main cycles throughthe hair growth process.
There's the anagen phase, andthat is where the hair is
actively growing.
So your hair follicle, yourdermal papilla, is producing

(01:04:40):
hair strands, that's protrudingthrough your scalp and that's
the anagen phase and that has aset point, a set amount of time
which is geneticallypredetermined, and then it moves
into the next phase, which isthe resting phase.
Now, during that resting phaseI think it's called the telogen
phase that the hair just stopsgrowing, it just stops and it

(01:05:00):
rests, and that lasts for aboutthree months and then the
catagen, catagen, sorry catapateyeah, that lasts for about
three months and then it movesinto the tillage yeah where hair
sheds and is replaced byanother strand, that starts the
growth process again.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Yes, and I just wanted them to know this, so
they'd be like what is shetalking about?
Antigen?

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
based.
But that is very muchinfluenced by several factors.
It's influenced by hormones.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
It's influenced by diet nutrition.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
It's influenced by stress, but the foundation of
that influence is you know yourgenetics, and just like the
texture of your hair is verymuch influenced by genetics, so
is the length of your anagenphase.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Absolutely.
I'm glad you put that out there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
It's really hard to convince Because it's hard to
convince women otherwise, andthis is just biology you know
One of the things that I say towomen is if our hair just grew
and grew and grew and didn'thave a cycle, like you know, our
intimate region would be, youknow and we'd have eyelashes

(01:06:15):
that were constantly growingthat we'd have to snip.
You know it happens in cyclesgrowing that we'd have to snip.
And you know it happens incycles.
So just learn yours, appreciateyours and focus on maximizing
your length retention activitiesso you can get the best out of
your anagen phase absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Thank you so much for sharing that information, so
much education.
That needs to be spread and notjust, like you said, how did
you refer to it?
It's crap, it's a lot of crapout here.
You know, and it's veryimportant that people are

(01:06:54):
learning from people actuallystudied the biology of how hair
works.
You know it's YouTube.
I'm telling you know it's it'syoutube.
I'm telling you it's you I lovecardi b.
I love her to death oh, but sheis so misleading no, ladies,

(01:07:15):
I'm sorry and I'm like you don'teven need the hair mask cardi
because of your genetics.
like, let's be honest, let's bereal.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
And, like you know, she shared the picture when she
was young and she had the littlefro and stuff.
But all that signaled to me wasthat when you was young, your
caregivers was a maximizinglength retention right, so you
never got to see how long yourhair could grow.
You were introducing practicesthat was causing breakage and
you just never got to see thefull viability of the strand.

(01:07:45):
Now you're focusing on lengthretention activities.
You're able to see thatgenetically you are capable of
growing hair down here.
That doesn't happen for all ofus and I think until somebody
creates a product that is ableto lock the hair in the anagen
phase for all of eternity, weare going to be influenced by

(01:08:07):
our genitalia.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
And that's what I meant by celebrities when I
mentioned, you know, whenevercelebrities, you know they love
to dabble over here into ourworld because it's a
multi-billionaire, you know,industry and they mislead
consumers because they, you know, being that there are
celebrities, people are going tolisten to them, just from there
.
They listen to them more thanthe people that study it you

(01:08:32):
know, and so I'm like, and then,and then, what I'm experiencing
behind the chair is I triedthis and I tried that and it
didn't work.
And then I have to go in andlike, re-educate and let them
know this, that's a whole girl.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
But you know what was interesting for me?
Watching the pushback thatRihanna got when she launched
Fenty Hair.
Now I cannot speak on herproducts and I won't, but what I
saw on social media was a lotof people saying we can't trust
your products because your hairisn't long and your natural hair

(01:09:08):
isn't this and your naturalhair?
Isn't something that we wouldconsider as aspirational.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
I didn't even know that was going on, so I'm
learning.
Oh girl.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
And I think for me that kind of underpinned the
lack of understanding that wehave as a community.
You know you can create aproduct that's viable, that's
effective.
I can't speak on her products,but what I will say, that is,
the length of somebody's hairdoesn't determine the quality of

(01:09:40):
their product.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
That was a time I was wearing my hair short
intentionally.
I was going to the hair salonand getting it cut into a bob,
into a pixie, intentionally.
My hair was growing with noissues, you know.
So you cannot take that andmake it the all-in and say this
is not going to work for anyoneacross the board because your

(01:10:01):
hair isn't, you know, long andit's not.
It doesn't look the in theideal way that people imagine it
to be you know that's not real.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Similarly, you can't take someone who has got
beautifully long hair and saythat their products is going to
do that for you Like Cardi Bback to Cardi B, for you Like
Cardi B Back to Cardi B.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
I'm really hoping we can get on board one day, you
know, cohesively, and be moreintent with you know, knowing
you know this is all stemmedfrom biology.
It's all stemmed from biologyand once you understand and
connect there, then you can.
The foundation is set and nowyou can grow from there.
You can build on that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
yeah it's the foundation, the core foundation
is biology yeah, next, we'relooking at well-being, we're
looking at nutrition, we'relooking at what are the factors
that contribute to the hairgrowth practice and and am I at
an optimum peak for wellness?
because the body is veryintelligent, and this is what I
say to people all the time yourbody is one of the most

(01:11:09):
intelligent machines so you know, if you're deficient in, let's
say, iron, or, you know, vitamind or any of the essential um
nutrients that are required forthe hair growth process, then it
ain't gonna grow your hair likeyou want to live.
But your body sees hair as anon-essential tissue.

(01:11:29):
So it will allocate all ofthose vitamins to the essential
tissues, such as your heart,liver, lungs, eyes, skin, before
it starts to prioritize andlook at okay, what are the needs
of your hair?
And then, when you're deficientin those essential nutrients,
it takes time to get to anoptimum storage level in your
body where your system will belike now I'm comfortable enough

(01:11:53):
to start allocating some ofthese vitamins to the follicles
and the hair growth process.
So it's not just about puttingon a cream or this shampoo or
this conditioner.
It's also about what is goingon inside of my body that's
going to contribute to myoverall well-being, because,
essentially, beauty is wellnessright.

(01:12:14):
And I think that's thenarrative and the conversation
that we need to start having.
Like we focus so much onexternal beauty factors that we
haven't taken into considerationthat actually, once you're well
from the inside, that starts toplay out in how you look and
you feel.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Yes, for sure, absolutely.
If you could look 10 years intothe future, what do you hope
Nyla says about your journey andthis brand?

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
That gets me excited.
10 years from now.
I want a brand, like I saidbefore, which is all about
bridging the gap betweenwellness and cosmetics.
You know, I really see ourconversation and our importance
being about you know, how can wereally maximize wellness

(01:13:18):
opportunities and products andservices for black women?
Um, we are introducing bloodtesting soon to our community
because we understand that'ssomething that isn't readily
available from the gp service umwe're looking at supplements.
We will expand in terms ofhaving that elasticity.
We're going to start looking atskincare.

(01:13:39):
We want to start looking atintimate wellness.
We want to start looking at umnutrition and, and you know,
introducing a more comprehensiverange of supplements.
But all of that is rooted inwhat are the needs of my
community and my community mytribe is black women.
What are the needs of mycommunity and how can, how can

(01:13:59):
we, as a brand, help?
to meet those needs.
So what I want us to be, thatwellness hub, that credible
resource of information that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
Let me know when I go to nilas.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
I'm getting truth, honesty, well-researched product
, well-researched information,and I can trust in this brand
and that that is our goalAbsolutely.
I love that.
Internationalization is also,you know something?
That we'll all be doing so.
Texas, we've got our eyes onTexas.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Yes, for sure.
I'm definitely going to bepromoting to my subscribers in
my email and pushing out theword and my people, they trust
me, they love me Because theyknow I operate from integrity
and I will not ever mislead themwith information that could not
truly and genuinely help them.
I love that and I have ademographic in Virginia, in

(01:14:54):
Hawaii, in Louisiana, becausewe're military, so we travel a
lot.
Oh, wow, yeah, so that's a goodthing too for you.
Okay, let's see, this is goingto be the last question because
we have to wrap up.
I hate it because I'm enjoyingthe conversation so much I'm

(01:15:16):
going to have to do a part two.
Have to do a part two um, what's, uh, oh, what's nyla's favorite
product from your um, from thebrand yeah, and then um what

(01:15:40):
three words would product?

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
she likes the serum okay, uses the serum um she's
the flourish hair serum.
Um.
So she uses that regularly andshe's got, you know, very dense
hair.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Her hair's very thick um and she um the spray, the
spray, I would say the maximummoisture.
The spray, I would say theMaximum Moisture Hair Spray.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Those are the two she uses daily.
And she uses those dailybecause she wears a lot of
protective styles, braids andstuff.
So those are the two productsthat are really good for keeping
her hair in optimum conditionwhile she's in braids.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
What would Nyla say about?

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Three words, three words, three words, um.
What would nyla say about me?
Three words, three words, I.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
I think she would say that I am committed and driven,
and she's called meinspirational and that's so
beautiful coming from yourdaughter, because I feel it's so
important for you to be thedirect inspiration.
There's inspiration everywhere,but for you to be the direct
inspiration, it just reassuresyou that you're doing a great

(01:16:52):
job.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Yeah, she called me inspirational.
I'm so proud of you, mommy.
And oh girl don't get mestarted.
And oh girl don't get mestarted.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful, that's it, that is
you know yeah, I can't evenarticulate that feeling.
I think that's enough.
It's really hard for theparents to be the direct
inspiration sometimes, dependingon how you grew up, so I think

(01:17:25):
that is more than enough to be adirect inspiration from your
daughter when there's so manyother influences out here that
could be influencing her, andyou are her direct person that
she can really look up togenuinely, and it's her mom of
all people.
Thank you, I just know we needto wrap up really look up to
genuinely, and it's her mom ofall people you know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Yeah, thank you, I just I know we need to wrap up,
but one of the things that Itold myself when I embarked on
my parenting journey was that Iwanted to raise children, to
have a childhood they didn'thave to heal from.
I had to heal from my childhoodyou know, and repairing

(01:18:03):
childhood you know, andrepairing yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
You know, reparent myself in that process.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
You know and have compassion for my caregivers and
my mom, understanding that shedid her version of what was best
, yeah, but for me and how Iraised my daughter and my son,
it's proactively making sure youdon't have to heal from this
experience of your childhood.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I love that so much, that's howI think our bond is formed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Mm-hmm.
Same here, same here.
Yeah, it's so beautiful.
I appreciate you also sharingthat information as well,
because it needs to be heard.
Some people are not aware thatthey are healing from their
childhood and some people don'tknow that they need to focus

(01:18:54):
also on making sure theirchildren don't have to heal from
their childhood and that,knowing I can go home and it's a
safe space, I can trust it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Yes, for sure I can be me here.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
I'm safe here yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
It's important.
The world is already unsafeenough.
They need to go there and feelsafe, absolutely, yeah.
So thank you so much forsharing with us today.
I thoroughly enjoyed listeningto your journey, your story.
I'm inspired.
I love leaving inspired.
I'm extremely inspired.

(01:19:28):
I can't wait to go purchase myown hair products now.
My daughter has locks, so whenyou mentioned about the spray
and the serum, I'm likedefinitely going to make sure
she get that and please let ourlisteners know how they can find
you and stay connected with youand so that they can follow you
along your journey.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Awesome.
So our website isNylasNaturalscom.
You can read up about my storythere, purchase our products and
see what we're up to as a brand.
Also our social media.
We're very active on Instagram,tiktok and Facebook and it's at

(01:20:07):
Nyla underscore.

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
UK.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
And you can find us there.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
Okay, thank you so much.
I appreciate you.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
What an incredible conversation.
Kamis Davis has shown us thepower of turning love, science
and passion into apurpose-driven brand.
From creating Nylas Naturalsfor her daughter to empowering
textured hair communitiesworldwide, her story is a true
testament to perseverance andvision.
If today's episode touched yourheart or inspired you, make

(01:20:38):
sure to check out Nylas Naturalsand follow Kamisa's journey on
social media.
And if you're listening rightnow, don't forget to hit that
subscribe button so you nevermiss another episode of Hair.
What I'm Saying Thank you, asalways, for tuning in.
Keep shining, keep thriving,and I'll catch you next time.