"The Science of Hair Loss: Insights from Trichologist, Aoife"

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After witnessing a friend's struggle with hair loss during cancer treatment, Aoife, a trichologist from Austin, Texas, embarked on a journey of empathy and innovation in hair health. In our latest episode, she shares her personal story and offers insights into the world of trichology, emphasizing the necessity of understanding hair loss as a complex issue intertwined with overall health. We explore how factors such as childbirth, medication, and stress play pivotal roles in hair shedding, with Aoife providing enlightening anecdotes and expert commentary on why your hair might be sending you health warning signals.

Listeners can expect to uncover a wealth of knowledge on hair loss treatments, both traditional and holistic. From the intricacies of PRP injections to the hidden power of scalp massages and red light therapy, we discuss the myriad options available to those seeking to restore their hair and confidence. By addressing common misconceptions about hair care, we highlight the importance of personalized routines and the role of trichologists in crafting bespoke solutions that cater to individual needs. Aoife's compassionate approach underscores the importance of supporting clients emotionally through their hair restoration journey, offering relatable success stories that inspire perseverance and hope.

Our conversation also touches on practical strategies for maintaining a healthy scalp and hair, integrating lifestyle choices like diet, hydration, and stress management. Aoife provides actionable tips on adapting hair care routines to seasonal changes and the significance of incorporating skincare principles into hair care. This episode is a must-listen for anyone grappling with hair loss or those curious about the scientific and emotional facets of trichology, promising to equip listeners with the tools they need to reclaim control over their hair health and well-being.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to Hair what I'm Saying, the podcast
where we dive into all thingshair care, beauty and
entrepreneurship.
I'm your host, kenetra, andtoday we're tackling a topic
that impacts so many hair loss.
Joining me is Aoife, acertified trichologist based in
Austin, texas, who specializesin identifying and treating hair
and scalp disorders.
Together, we'll explore thescience behind the hair loss

(00:26):
common causes, effectivesolutions and how you can
reclaim your confidence and yourstrengths.
So grab your headphones, getcomfortable and let's get into
it.
Welcome to the Hair what I'mSaying podcast.
I'm your host, kenetra Stewart,and today we have Aoife of
Aoife Marie Beauty joining us, atrichologist located in Austin,
texas.
Welcome to the show.
How are you?

(00:47):
Hi, good, how are you?
I'm good, I'm excited.
I'm excited to have atrichologist on the show.
Have you not had one before?
No, I've never even hadconversation with a trichologist
.
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
So when I saw you, I was like, ooh, this would be so
great for my listeners who are,you know, struggling with hair
loss and restoration.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
You can be able to share some gems and some tips
100% To help them Great.
Can you share a bit about yourjourney to becoming a
trichologist and what inspiredyour interest in the field?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
So my interest goes back.
So I've been doing this sinceCOVID times Okay, that's when I
started going to school, becauseback then one of my best
friends got diagnosed withcancer the age of 26 years old.
Yeah, what kind of very skinlong.
She didn't even smoke, it waslike totally left field, um.
But when she was diagnosed shecame to me and she was like so

(01:40):
what do I do about like the hairsituation?
And like of all of the scarythings that were happening, she
was like most concerned with herhair, which is kind of wild to
me because, like, hair is ourlife obviously.
So, like of course, I would beconcerned about my hair, but the
fact that she was coming to meand she was like I don't know
what to do, like let's talkabout wigs, like how am I going

(02:00):
to grow the hair back?
So I was doing like a lot ofresearch for her because I
realized that our trainingdoesn't cover hair loss at all.
Oh see, really Right.
Like, like you went tocosmetology school, did you guys
cover hair loss?
Oh, cosmetology, nottrichologist.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, cosmetology.

(02:21):
I was about to say, well,trichology, oh, yeah, I asking
hair questions, and this wasbefore you were a trichologist.
This was before I was atrichologist.
I was like I don't know how tohelp you.
Like I, truly I have no ideawhat's going to happen.
So I was doing some Googleresearch and I was like freaking
out because I'm like, I'm aVirgo, so I like to have answers
yeah, and I couldn't findanswers.
But instead I found trichologyand so I found this whole like

(02:44):
sector of you know, people comeinto this from like functional
health.
People come into this from thehairstyling world, just like
this little bubble of people whoonly work with hair loss.
Yes, um, and it was soinspiring to me and I I was so
excited we are already lockeddown.
So I was like, whatever youknow, yeah, what if I just went
to school real quick?
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's how.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I started into it Really just to help one person.
And now here I am.
I love how.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
I love, but then it's like for women it's really
serious for us to like when itcomes to our hair.
When you said I could notbelieve that was the first thing
that she was thinking about was, like how am I going to
basically hold?
on to my hair, if was the firstthing that she was thinking
about was like how am I gonnabasically hold on to my hair?

(03:31):
If, if I god forbid wasdiagnosed with anything, I would
be so concerned with my hair,me too, me too.
But you brought that intoperspective for me, right.
I would be really trying tofigure out how am I gonna save
my hair?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
right.
What in the world right?
So, and that's apparently athing all women have, and also a
little statistic for you womenare going to lose their hair on
average four times in their life.
Okay, from like childbirthsurgeries um postpartum grief,
like we are just prone to losingour hair, yes, so I also think,
as a hairstylist, I was doing alot of extensions, okay, and I

(04:00):
was realizing that girls thatwere coming to me for extensions
had other things going on thatyou know.
I like we probably shouldn't beputting extensions on this.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
So it wasn't medical related.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, like girls just lose their hair.
It's just kind of how it goes,and so I was.
I was just had like a bunch ofthings where it's like a lot of
people are losing their hairright now.
How can I help?
Okay, when you say for otherreasons what were some of the
reasons why they were losingtheir hair?
Well, covid, people are losingtheir hair.
Okay, ozempic so sorry, ladies,if you're on Ozempic.

(04:32):
I'm glad you mentioned that youare going to lose your hair if
you're on Ozempic because eitherthe rapid weight loss is going
to do it or if you're taking amedication that your body
doesn't necessarily need'regonna end up shedding hair.
Yes, anytime you start or stopa medication, you're gonna lose
your hair.
Yes, um, poor diet?
Yep for sure lose your hair.

(04:53):
If you're dehydrated, you'regonna lose your hair.
Um, just, there's literallyyour hair is so sensitive it is
you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
It responds first.
I always anything right feellike that I say it's a symptom.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, especially as hairstylists right, we are the I
always say like we're like thefront lines, okay, because
clients come to us and they'relike, hey, like my hair of
something else happening.
Yes, for sure.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Internally, internally, yeah for sure, and I
know for my clients when it's atopical situation, like maybe
tension alopecia, I can assistwith that.
But sometimes when it comes todiet or, like you mentioned,
anything that has changed,sometimes they don't want to go
see these other experts that yourecommend them to.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
No, think like that's why I love that trichology is a
thing now, because you know Ihave really bad skin and like
going to a dermatologist is aprocess right, you have to get
you have to go to a generalpractitioner, you have to get
referred.
You know like it's a.
It's a huge process and it'svery expensive in order to get
answers.
So I love having this othersector where it's like I'm a

(06:09):
specialist in this one thing,like you can come to me and I
can help you out Got you.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Ok, that makes sense too, because I was, I'm always
like why are you so hesitant?
Here's the solution.
Yeah, just go Right.
Yeah, but, like you mentioned,it's a process and most people
want that quick fix.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, yeah.
Or or they just don't thinkit's a serious.
You know, like going to adoctor is like makes it a
serious thing, or they might youknow other things might come up
with it, who knows?
A lot of people are just scaredof that.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
So yeah, for sure yeah, I can see that like having
to learn other things outsideof.
It's just you losing your hairdue to whatever.
Facing the reality of somethingmore serious.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
For sure, yeah, were there any personal experiences
or stories that motivate you topursue trichology, which I feel
like you've already mentionedabout your client?

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, I just feel like there's a lot of like I
said like hair loss affectseverybody.
A lot of like I said like hairloss affects everybody.
I've I've crossed so manypeople that are experiencing
hair loss and like not havingthe answers for your clients is
so.
It's so like disheartening,like when you have a client in
your chair and they're losingtheir hair and they're asking
you why and you have to be likeI don't know.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Good luck yeah, yeah, I was.
Uh, once I notice it's nottopical, I always say you
probably want to go get someblood work done, you know, just
to see, because you'd besurprised Low iron or whatever
it could be.
Yeah, yeah, literally it couldliterally affect your hair.
You know, I actually had aclient who, I think for about

(07:41):
three months she was contactingme.
Well, the first time she evercame to me she was like oh, my
hair won't grow.
And I'm asking her all thequestions that we ask the
clients, like are you on anymedication?
You know, has your diet changed, whatever?
And she was like no, but Inoticed that she just wasn't
consistent with cuts and trimsor whatever.
And I'm like oh you can, yourhair seems fine.

(08:02):
I'm checking integrity.
And I'm like oh you can, yourhair seems fine.
I'm checking the integrity.
Your scalp looks great.
It can grow or it can retainlength right.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, it is so funny, because that is such a like
half of my job when I do hairloss consultations is like, yeah
, actually, like your scalp isfine.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm looking atit right now.
Yeah, she is doing great.
However, I do see that yourhair is breaking off and like
for listeners at home, if youlook at the ends of your hair,
okay, and if you see any littlewhite dots, do you know?

(08:29):
I'm talking about those littlebulbs?
Yeah, yeah, that's calledtrichorexis nodosa.
That is, heat damage it, that'sso.
What happens is what is thatcalled again.
Say that again.
Trichorexis nodosa gotcha Inever heard of it.
It is a hair disorder, okay,but but it's 100% heat damage.
It's when you apply heat on thehair and it forms a moisture

(08:49):
bubble inside of the hair andthat moisture bubble there's no
healing, it, it's just going tosnap off.
Oh, my goodness, I like to givemy clients that because you
really don't want to shame them,especially when it's coming
down to hey, like your hair isnot growing because you're
breaking it off.
You know, like you have to bevery gentle about it.

(09:09):
Like it's not because peopledon't want to take
accountability, which is fine.
I don't either, like I don'twant anyone to come, you know,
to feel like I'm coming at themin like an accusatory way.
Yeah because they're coming toyou with a problem.
So I just I'd like to educatethem.
Like that is that looks likeheat damage.

(09:29):
That's trichorexis nodosa.
I love there is no healing forit, like you're gonna have to
just cut that off and startagain.
But I also don't recommendclients putting heat on their
hair more than once a weekPeriod.
For sure.
A lot of my job, too, isteaching people how to air style
their hair.
You know.
Let it dry.
Naturally, do other methods ofdrying it to lay off the heat,

(09:53):
because I found out people areusing heat on their hair so
often and that's what's breakingtheir hair off.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
That's what's breaking their hair off.
And her problem wasn't evenheat.
She was a very low maintenanceclient.
Interesting, yeah, her problemwas just not cutting the dead
ends off, so it was justbreaking off.
But then we uh, actually herhair started growing.
When she started comingconsistently or retaining length
, it was already growing, and wegot her down to about a little
past her shoulders, and then itstarted thinning out, and she

(10:20):
was like I don't know what'sgoing on.
My hair is thinning.
I don't know what to do.
She was like I'm not heatstyling.
In between the times that I'mcoming to see you, the only heat
I apply to my hair is when youdo it.
We couldn't figure it out and Iwas like, okay, just go to the
doctor and just see, make sureit's not something in your blood
.
And this went on for like threemonths.

(10:40):
You know what it is.
She was like the only thingthat's changed is I started that
Ozempic shot, and that's whatit was.
And as soon as she stoppedtaking that shot, then the hair
started, you know, becoming morefull.
It took some time, though, ifyou want to talk.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Okay, talking about Ozempic?
Yeah, just because I know thisis a hot topic right now.
Yes, talk about it, girl.
Yeah, let's go into the ozempictalk, yeah.
So that triggers somethingcalled telogen effluvium.
Okay, that happens three monthsafter you start a medication,
okay.
So a lot of the times peopledon't understand that that's why
their hair is falling out,because you know they're like

(11:18):
I've been taking the shot forthree months, like there's no
way that it's that it takes time.
It takes anything with hairloss, like whether it's a
treatment for growth or fallingout.
Three months is like the sweetspot, so you might not notice
that you have any hair lossuntil the three month mark and
then it's gonna have a shut out.
With telogen effluvium you canshed up to 75 of your hair.

(11:40):
Omg 75 is so dramatic.
I've never seen that's a lie.
I have seen that before, butlike that is absolute worst case
scenario, gotcha.
So if you're, if you're alistener at home and you're on
it, the good thing about telogeneffluvium is it always comes
back.
I think it's like it has a 90retention rate.

(12:01):
It fixes itself and it justit's all about finding balance.
I would say your body, yourbody's fighting for equilibrium
so hard.
Your hair is non-essential tolife, so if there's something
else going on in your body, yourhair is going to be the one
that takes the L yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Every single time.
I always say if you want toknow what's going on with you
internally, your hair is goingto dry, snitch every time.
I know.
Have you want to know what'sgoing on with you internally?
Your hair is going to dry,snitch every time I know.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Have you ever colored someone's hair and you can hold
it out and you can see like,basically like tree, tree rings
and you can see exactly like thedifferent things have been
happening in their life.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I think it's really cool for sure, even whenever
you're losing hair and it'sgrowing back and that new hair
is coming in, you can see likeat what point.
Where did the breaking start?

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, because it's so thin everywhere else and the
new grow is so thick what youcan also do is hold the hair out
and you can kind of shake it alittle bit and you can shake out
some of the long hair.
So you can see, like exactlywhere, like because hair is
going to fall out roughly aroundthe same time, exactly where,
like because hair is going tofall out roughly around the same
time.
It's not exact like hairs aregoing to fall out sporadically,
but you can kind of see likethis is this hair is three

(13:11):
months old.
Yeah, right, so I can see thatthe treatment that we did on you
is working, because you havethree inches of new growth right
of new hairs.
Um, also, if you're wanting tosee if your hair is hair growth
or breakage, look look at theends of the hair.
If it's pointy, that's new hair.
If it's a blunt, flat end,that's breakage.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Oh, I'm learning.
Yeah, yeah, I love that Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, so you can hold them up.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
So when it's pointing , that's a good indication.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yes, but when it's blunt, that's breakage.
Yes, especially around thehairline.
I like to just like take extratime to like go through
someone's hairline, becausethese hairs get ripped out left,
right, center we are so roughon the front of our hair.
Yeah, like glasses, ponytails,slicking it back so you can just
go around and like really seeif that's breakage.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, or new growth Got you.
I'm learning too.
Okay, for those unfamiliar,what is trichologist and how
does your work differ from thatof a dermatologist or a
hairstylist?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
So as a trichologist, I am not a doctor.
I'm not going to give medicaladvice.
I do not diagnose.
I'm more of like I call it likea hair therapist.
Okay, right, like I can readyour blood work.
I can get blood work orderedfor you so you can bring it to
me and we can read it and we canlook through and we can kind of
see, like what levels are off.
I can do a hair tissue mineralanalysis so I can send your hair

(14:37):
off to a lab and get back someresults and I can read it and
like tell you what's going on.
I'm also a hairstylist, so Ikind of like walk that line of
doing both.
But I always like to make itclear your hair and your scalp
are different.
Right, you have to treat themtotally different.
Things that are good for yourhair may not be good for your

(14:59):
scalp and things that are goodfor your scalp are not good for
your hair.
But what I like about thislittle sector is like if you're
going to go to a dermatologist,they're gonna, because I've been
to a dermatologist for hairloss.
They're gonna offer youminoxidil, which is a foam.
You have to apply that foamevery single day and as a
hairstylist I know that'sunrealistic.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I just know my clients aren't going to do that
right for sure, like yeah, it'seven the you know, because it's
going to make your hair lookgreasy.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's going to.
It doesn't look very good Likeit makes it sticky and hard to
style.
So I just know, realistically,no one's going to do that for
three months, right?
That's 90 days of ugly hair,even if it's going to improve
the hair?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
they still would.
Would you do it?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yes, you would do it, you would have bad hair for 90
days.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Bad hair for 90 days?
I sure would.
I would be so eager to get myhair back.
I'm like, okay, that's 90 days,I can sacrifice, I'll be okay.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, and the thing with minoxidil, too, is, once
you stop, it stops as well.
So it's really just like anongoing thing, right?
So I just know it's unrealistic.
Minoxidil is also toxic to pets, oh so, if you got pissed,
probably shouldn't be taking.
Yeah, right, yeah, because it'stopical.
Um, it's like I just like toput point that out because I
feel like no one else is talkingabout it, because, like in

(16:18):
cosmetology school.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's like this great thing, fda approved.
It's the only thing that's fdaapproved that will grow your
hair.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
We have a couple other things, so like it's fine,
um, but it is toxic to pets.
Don't let your pet anywherenear it while it's wet.
Let it dry down before you goto bed, because if you go to bed
with it wet on your head andthen, like your cat, sleeps on
your pillow, it's toxic.
You know, and you know, I'm notgoing to do anything that's
going to affect my cat right,absolutely for sure period.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
And then you that's a medical bill for your cat.
Now right, medical bill.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right now you got a medical bill they're also going
to offer, like prp, which, ifyou guys don't know what prp is,
they take blood out of yourbody, spin it, get the growth
factors and inject them backinto your scalp.
So luckily now we havesynthetic versions of that.
We have plant-based what is itcalled?
Growth factors?
Okay, I always get that wrong,because growth factor seems like

(17:09):
I don't know, like an intenseword for it.
Really.
You think so, not intense.
Actually, it's probably theopposite.
Growth factors just seems likea very simple way of putting it.
But we have plant-based optionsnow and you don't necessarily
have to get them injected.
So there's just like otheroptions now.
But I do feel like in thedermatology sector, since they
deal with all skin, not justhair and scalp, they're really

(17:31):
stuck on a couple procedures,whereas through a more holistic
way, there are so many otheravenues we can take.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh, okay, so do you feel like the dermatology
approach is more aggressive?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, okay, aggressive is a good, the
dermatology approach is moreaggressive.
Yeah, okay, aggressive is agood word for it.
And it's very expensive.
Like PRP treatments are goingto run you thousands of dollars
and they're normally not coveredby insurance Because, like I
said, hair is not essential tolife, so it's actually really
hard to get anything covered.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Okay, I did not.
I know one of my clients.
I did refer to a dermatologist,and she opted out because she
felt like the treatment was tooaggressive Not in the way that
you are explaining it, though,but more in a way of she wanted
to start treatment that day.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
You know I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
She's like I want today, or the dermatologist was
more aggressive about theapproach and she was more kind
of hesitant.
You know, I think she wantedmaybe just more of a
consultation, I don't know Justto learn about what's going on
with her.
But not necessarily, you know,proceed with treatment right
then and there.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I don't know.
Also, getting shots in yourscalp freaks me out.
I'm not going to lie.
Yeah, I know, I don't likeshots at all.
In my head.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
I'm not gonna lie.
Yeah, I know I don't like shotsat all, so in my head area,
like in your head, that's toomuch.
But I would do it if I had to.
I'm not gonna lie.
Oh my gosh.
What are some misconceptionspeople have about the role of a
trichologist?

Speaker 2 (18:58):
oh, that's a good one .
I feel like there's not verymisconceptions, because no one
knows what it is yet.
So I feel like the misconceptionis people don't know what I do.
They don't know what I offerBecause, like you said, I
actually I offer a lot of hairloss consultations.
The way that that works issomeone will come into me.
I have them fill out thisextremely, extremely long form.

(19:19):
So that form has like familyhistory.
I want to know about your diet.
I want to know about your life,like are you a stressed person?
Do you have children?
How old are the kids?
I want to know about yourhormonal cycle, because hormones
play a huge role in hair loss.
So we're going to go throughall that.
Then we have the option.
So that's kind of more of liketalking it through, and then I

(19:50):
get my scope and I scope thescalp and I look at what's going
on, um, so I can see what'shappening.
So you get kind of immediatelike we can talk it through
answers.
Okay, then we can order bloodwork or a hair tissue mineral
analysis if you want to go alittle bit deeper into it.
But that's like I, I giveeveryone the option, right.
It's like if you want thesimple consultation, because you
just want to feel seen andheard, because it's emotional
and you just want someone tovalidate especially when I look

(20:10):
at your scalp, I can say like,yeah, look, this is what a
healthy follicle looks like,because everyone has at least
one healthy follicle.
A healthy follicle has severalhairs that come out of it.
They're all around the samediameter.
The scalp looks nice and clean.
And then I can look at theparts of hair that they're a
little bit more concerned withand I can really tell them like,
yeah, I'm validating you, likeyou are experiencing hair loss

(20:31):
right here.
Um, then I give them a verysimple routine to go home with.
Yes, I actually write a hugereport of what we talked about
products I recommend um, I evenI've started sending a little
calendar too of like a weeklyroutine.
So it's like Monday you'regoing to wash your hair with
this.
Tuesday you're going to let itsit.
Wednesday you're going to dolike a derma roll.

(20:53):
Sunday you're going to do likea detox set, right.
So you have all the answers ofjust a very simple, classic
routine to go off of, and then Igive recommendations of like
more aggressive things.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I love that because sometimes you just don't know
what to you know what to do, butI like how you simplify for
your clients, so it's like onMonday I know exactly what I'm
doing, on Tuesday, instead oflike giving them all these
instructions and it becomesoverwhelming trying to figure
out.
Okay, what do I?
I don't even remember, what doI?
Even I?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
even need to do like.
That's why I also like itwritten down, because, like,
I'll follow something if it'swritten down.
Right, but right if I'm goinghome with 16 products, no one's
going home 16 products.
But you know, like if someone'srecommending that I get
everything, I give them all ofmy recommendations.
I say just take what you canlike, we're gonna start small.
I've always found that startingmore simply is better and

(21:45):
easier, because then you canlike work your way back a little
bit.
You know, just add on one, oneor two things every month, yes,
and it's also, like whenever youare starting something new.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
It's like this additional thing in your
schedule that you have to maketime for, as if we're not
already busy.
So the more simplified approachwill probably you know they
will likely do it.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Right, you know all about consistency, right?
If you're consistent, I wouldrather you do something very
simple consistently than do thefull routine once a month, right
, because that's not going towork.
It's not going to do anythingif you're not doing the at-home
stuff, right?

Speaker 1 (22:25):
for sure.
What are the most common typesof hair loss you encounter in
your practice?

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I encounter a little bit of everything.
So, with men androgeneticalopecia or male pattern
baldness that affects I thinkit's like between 75% and 85% of
men.
Okay, it's so prevalent andeveryone knows what it looks
like like the hairline starts torecede or they start to get
like a little wispy patch on theback.

(22:50):
Um, that is a genetic mutation,so it affects a lot of men.
I see that a lot, and then Isee a lot of telogen effluvium
with women.
So, like I said, that'schildbirth, hormonal changes,
medication changes.
So with those, we just kind ofit's like a fun mystery game
where I have someone fill outall this information and we just
have to work our way back tolike okay, so what was happening

(23:13):
three months ago?
What about three months beforethat?
When did you start noticingthat you were losing hair?
And let's work our way back,because you have to figure out
the root cause of the hair lossbefore you can deal with it.
For sure, because if you don't,a lot of people just want to
skip ahead to like the hairgrowth serums and like the derma
rolling and like the growthfactors treatments.

(23:34):
But if we don't stop why yourhair is falling out, then you're
going to be trapped in thislike baby hairs forever
situation where you're going tobe growing new hair but you're
going to be losing hair at thesame time, so you're not really
retaining much of anything.
Right, because if you don'taddress the underlying issue,
it's just going to keephappening.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Absolutely yeah.
You have to target the problemin order to fix it.
For sure.
How does stress, diet orlifestyle affect?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
their health?
Oh my gosh, that is such a goodquestion because that's like
the missing piece.
I think people don't considerwhen they're worried about their
hair falling out.
It affects everything.
So I always tell clients hairis non-essential to living right
.
You can be bald and alive stilland still be okay.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
And have a brain you love Hard to feel something.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
For sure.
Yeah, it's not going to be thathuge of an issue.
But since your hair isnon-essential to living, if you
have any imbalance anywhere elsein your body, like, for example
, protein, is a huge one Because, honestly, not a lot of people
get enough protein in their dietyour body is going to
prioritize that protein going toyour muscles and going to your

(24:51):
heart or wherever needs protein.
It's going to prioritizesending that where you need it.
So you might notice that yourhair is getting brittle because
your hair is not getting enoughprotein.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
The extra goes to your hair not getting enough
protein Right so much.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
The extra goes to your hair.
Same thing with water, right?
A lot of my clients are reallydehydrated and that comes back
in the scans every single time,because your body is going to
send that water to your kidneys,because that's where it needs
it to live, right?
So that's when you start tonotice the flaky scalp, right?

(25:25):
Yeah, a lot of that has to dowith dehydration.
A lot of people want to.
They come to me and they'relike my scalp is so flaky.
I'm so sorry and I'm like well,have you drank water today?
You know plain water.
I mean, I'm bad because I havean iced coffee with me right now
but you probably get your waterin too, right you?
just have to make sure thatyou're taking care of like your
body portion.

(25:45):
Yeah, because whatever's leftover is going to go to your hair
.
That's actually like.
I wish I should have brought mybefore pictures because my hair
looks, honestly, this is thebest it's probably ever looked.
I was once I started switchingover to because I was vegan,
okay, for many years.
Um, I started eating meat lastyear, so the vegan was not

(26:07):
helping your hair it was I'mjust, I was just a bad vegan
because I was just eating like alot of carbs, right, I was just
bad.
Oh my gosh, you know, like yougo out to eat, you can only get
like bread right, yes, yeah, forsure.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Like.
No meat for protein, right, noprotein, or like a salad with no
protein, right, um?

Speaker 2 (26:27):
so I was really noticing like my hair wasn't a
shiny, it was dull.
I was I.
So when I did these scansmyself on myself, it was
actually very eye-opening oflike, oh, you haven't gotten
enough protein in your body,probably ever oh my goodness
right, it's crazy, it's alllifestyle changes make like the
world of difference so, um, wedefinitely know dehydration, not

(26:51):
drinking enough water, gettingenough fluids.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Um, the diet, what are some uh foods that uh
clients or anyone can eat?
You know that can help withprotein.
You know what we know meat isprotein, but I guess like what I
like is like quick snacks oh, Ilove it right?

Speaker 2 (27:09):
yeah, um, let me think, because I just go to
costco and I like look up,there's actually like a tiktoker
that talks about like proteinsnacks and I love them.
Yeah, um, just prioritizinglike healthy fats as well as
healthy fats are going to helphydrate, like omega like omega.
Like, yeah, like omega yeah,like avocados, a lot of nuts.
Trail mix isn't a great likeeasy snack.

(27:31):
Those little meat sticks are agreat snack as long as you're
getting, like the zero sugar,healthier ones.
Yeah, there's so many like cutelittle protein snacks now.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, because you know sometimes you need.
You just need something quick.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
I keep a lot of protein shakes in my salon as
well.
I make a protein coffee so Ijust do like a protein shake
with like two shots of espressoin it.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
So good?
Oh, my goodness, because Ithink sometimes the approach of
trying to intentionallyincorporate, you know, these
certain ingredients into ourfoods in order to get the
nutrition that we need, it'sjust not like another thing.
Yeah, so you just be like I'mnot doing it today.
No, for real, you know, there'salready so much to balance, you

(28:17):
know, and that's why I'm likewhat are some snacks where you
can just grab and go?
Also, just like takingmultivitamins.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know, just like, really, I know like like no one
wants to take a multivitamin,but they really do work.
You can get you know, if you'reB vitamin deficient, that's a
big one for hair loss.
Zinc is another big one forhair loss.
So, just like, take care ofyour body.
Like I hate saying it like this, but you know sample well, it's

(28:45):
like, and you know what youneed to do, right?
You, everyone knows what theyneed to do.
Um, it's just prioritizing itand like putting your health
before I don't know other thingsyou know like is your health
more important than likescrolling on your phone?
no see, because we can do thatfor hours.
I could do that for seven hoursa day.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, and in those seven hours it would take what
30 minutes.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Right to cook a good meal.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Oh my goodness.
Are there any specific medicalconditions or genetic factors
that predispose people to hairloss?

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yes, so the big one is androgenetic alopecia, which
is it's a female pattern hairloss and male pattern baldness.
That is a genetic mutation.
It is a genetic.
It's a mutation of the 5-ARenzyme, if you guys want to get
like far into it.
Basically, what it does is itbreaks testosterone down in a
weird way that sends it to yourhair follicles.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Okay, what about the female pattern?
I know about the male pattern.
It's the same.
It's the same, it's the samebalding spots.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
So on women it looks different.
Okay, so the first thing thatyou'll see if a woman's
experiencing this is her hair isgoing to get really, really
oily very fast.
Okay, right, like, have you hadthose clients?
It's like they wash their hairin the morning, by night it's
still oily.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
No, my clients their hair is always dry.
I don't have any really oilyhair clients.
It's always my hair is so dry Imean that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's a good thing they haven't run into this, or
it's like their part is gettinga little bit wider.
That's another big, bigtelltale sign.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
I have seen that and her hair was oily.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, okay, all right yeah, okay, yeah, I'm like,
yeah, as, as you say, thesymptoms like it comes up so
your pores get wider or it juststarts to get wispier on, like
the very top of the head, yes,yeah, so what that's called?
That's called miniaturization,so the testosterone attaches
itself to your hair follicle andthen it chokes out that hair
follicle so that hair is goingto get skinnier and skinnier and

(30:47):
skinnier.
So I think it's most prevalenton men, because we've all seen
the man who you're like baby,just shave it, like right, like
don't even try to help.
But you know what I like?
You see them and you're likeyou are holding on to those 10
hairs like with your whole life.
But that's like a good way tolike, that's what it looks like
at its most extreme, like thehairs just keep getting smaller

(31:09):
and smaller and smaller andwispier and wispier.
They're more spread apart untileventually the dht has choked
out that hair follicle and thehair follicles dormant.
Can you let our listeners knowwhat is dht?
Dht is dihydrotestosterone, sotestosterone gets broken down by
this enzyme and it turns intoDHT.
Gotcha, this is the mostprevalent hair loss for

(31:33):
everybody because it's genetic.
It can be helped with asupplement.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
There is DHT inhibiting supplements.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
There's also.
I'm more of a holistic personin general, just because I just
feel like it works and I likeusing it.
So there's like pumpkin seedoil or stinging nettle, like
there are natural ingredientsthat help counteract the DHT.
You can take them orally orapply them topically.
I was going to ask which onewould be best.
I mean, if you're wanting to beaggressive with it, I would do

(32:04):
both oh both.
For sure, yeah, be best I mean,if you're wanting to be
aggressive with it, I would doboth.
Oh, both.
Okay, now for sure.
Yeah, because you can see dht.
Like if I scope someone's scalp, you can see dht.
What does it look like?
It's yellow.
It's like a yellowy, likesticky substance.
Oh yeah, so you can.
You can see it on the scalp,which is really cool, yeah I'm
learning so much.
You're about to get a scope andstart looking at people so I

(32:26):
did used to do that really, yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Um, whenever you mentioned DHT, that's what I was
like can you explain to ourlisteners what it is?
Because I am very familiar withthat terminology and what it is
.
But, um, I only went surfacelevel but for you, as a
trichologist, like you've donethe actual, you have the
education you know.
I went deep.
Yeah, you went deep and I justkind of stayed on the surface

(32:50):
level, like when you mentionedpumpkin seed oil.
I know about pumpkin seed oilhelping to reverse DHT and those
things, but I know a lot oflisteners don't.
So it's like you know, withyour profession and being that
this is your line of work andmine's just mostly focused on
hair care, yeah, and not in thedepths of yours.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Also interesting because I feel like a lot of
brands like have have startedentering the hair loss world
yeah, they have, so it's greatbecause we're getting a lot of
education.
Um, it's actually great becauseI've been helping some brands
like work out their education tomake sure it's correct, because
I did take a class and theeducator said something and I
was like, hey, so that's likeactually like, not true so how

(33:33):
was that?

Speaker 1 (33:33):
did they?

Speaker 2 (33:33):
receive it.
Yeah, it was actually great.
Um, I was like yeah, I justlike, like, I'm just saying this
as like I don't want you tospread like misinformation
around absolutely, and Iappreciate you for doing it and
I'm glad that they received itwell.
Yeah, there was no ego involved,like you said, like you got the
education from somewhere.
I love that.
This is like becoming a thingthat we can talk about.

(33:55):
I think hairstylists, like Isaid, that we're on the front
lines.
Yeah, clients are going to cometo you before they're going to
go to a doctor.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
That's true.
So, like everyone, should havea base level, absolutely for
sure what are some effectivetreatments or solutions you
recommend for common hair lossissues?

Speaker 2 (34:11):
um, I like derma rolling.
Okay.
So derma rolling is like using.
It's like a little, looks likea pizza cutter.
It has like little tiny needleson it.
Do it hurt?
It does not hurt.
It does not hurt at all.
If you're doing it at home, onyourself, just get 0.5.
That is plenty.
So what you can do is you canroll around your areas of

(34:31):
concern, because your hair isheld onto your head by white
blood cells.
So these white blood cells arethe things that are going to go
to different parts of your bodythat need it.
Right, they're stem cells.
So it's like, for example,water is like the huge one, okay
.
So if you're really dehydratedand you're not getting enough
water, some of your white bloodcells might just be traveling

(34:51):
down there.
Or a better example ischildbirth.
Right, your white blood cellsare leaving your scalp because
they're going to go down to youruterus and they're going to get
to work.
Dermarolling causes a fakeinjury on the top of your head.
So the white blood cells no onego back to right.
Yeah, it does work, like thescience behind that does

(35:12):
definitely work.
Derma rolling using a hairgrowth serum on those parts
derma rolling it in is going tohelp it penetrate a little bit
deeper.
Um, scalp massage is actuallyhuge.
I feel like that's not talkedabout enough and it's free Like
you can do this right whileyou're listening to this podcast
.
I know that's right Massageyour scalp.
Just make sure that you'reactually moving the scalp

(35:34):
against your skull, because thehair or the blood on top of your
scalp is dormant.
It doesn't have a ton ofcirculation up there, so you
just want to like manually getit going.
That's a good one.
Red light therapy have youheard of that?
I have heard of red lighttherapy.
Yes, red light therapy is fdaapproved okay, so when I.
So that's when, like, we haveother other options.

(35:54):
Um, you just need to use it 15minutes a day.
I have a stand in the salonthat I use and I have a stand at
home that I use.
Okay, I just sit under it 15minutes a day.
You can do that Absolutely.
Yeah, cause that one's reallygood.
Cause that one actually helpswake up dormant follicles as
well, because it promotes photobiostimulation.

(36:15):
So a good way to like, thinkabout it, cause I know you guys
probably don't know what photobiostimulation is.
That's crazy.
But, like, if you think about aplant photosynthesis, okay,
right, yes, plants use sunlightto turn over their cells and
grow faster.
Right, same thing for yourscalp.
Oh, the red light therapy isdoing that, the red light
therapy is going to promotephotobiostimulation, which means

(36:36):
it's going to help turn cellsover faster.
So it's actually really goodfor muscle recovery.
A lot of athletes use it onspecific muscles.
It's good for your skin becauseit's going to help anti-age.
It's helping the cells turnover a little bit faster.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
That's what I heard of red light therapy, mostly
used on skin.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Great With the masks yeah, okay, okay.
And it's good for hair yeah, soit's a win-win-win.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Okay, girl, I feel like I'm in class.
That's girl, I feel like I'm inclass, that's good.
It's so much information.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Are there any new or emerging technologies in
trichology that are making a bigimpact?
I would say us having growthfactors that are not coming from
your own blood is huge, right,because there are different ways
that we can like put that onthe scalp, like I do it with
mesotherapy, which it's anon-invasive's, like a
needle-free way to like get thegrowth factors to go into your
scalp.
Um, people can do it withmicroneedling.

(37:34):
Um, hairstylists, under ourlicense, we cannot microneedle.
So I'm just saying that foranyone who's not in texas,
because every other state can doit except for us.
You can derma, roll it in, youcan apply it topically.
There are so many differentways that we can now use this
technology of basically usingstem cells to our advantage in

(37:57):
an effective and not veryexpensive way.
Okay, I love that I'm always soquick to refer my clients to
dermatologists.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'm like I'm always so quick to refer my clients to
dermatologists.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
I'm like, oh, maybe you should just go see a
trichologist.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
How do you determine the best treatment plan for each
client?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Ooh it is totally different for every client,
right.
So what I do with clients iswe're going to start.
It just depends on how severetheir hair loss is, what they've
already tried and what they'rewilling to do.
Ok, because this is a teameffort, I can only do so much
like.
My job really is makingrecommendations, and I can do

(38:38):
treatments Right.
I actually own like theJapanese head spa.
Have you seen this?

Speaker 1 (38:43):
It's so good, I love.
I want you to talk more aboutthat too, like you know,
informing the listeners whatthat is, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah Well, so the Japanese Head Spa we'll just go
that.
If you guys have seen it on theinternet, it's like you lay
down on this bed.
It's basically getting a facialfor your scalp.
So think about like what youget in a facial, right?
You get like like the massagestimulation.
You can do a derma roll session.
We can exfoliate, you can do itfor hair growth, you can do it
for relaxation.
A lot of people just come inand fall asleep on the table.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
How long is it an hour?

Speaker 2 (39:14):
yes, yeah like an hour of like the warm water
coming over you.
It's absolutely amazing.
So, like I said, it determineswhere they're at and what
they're willing to do, becauseit's absolutely amazing.
So, like I said, it determineswhere they're at and what
they're willing to do, becauseit's a team effort.
So I can only do certain things, but if they're not going home
and doing the rest of it, it'snot going to work.

(39:37):
So that's how everyone's umtreatment gets determined.
For example, like men who cometo me and they say that they
have hair loss and I say okay,so I want you to take the
supplement every day.
I want you to use this redlight therapy for 15 minutes a
day and every three days.
I want you to apply thistopically.
So many times they go too much.
I'm not going to do all that,right?

(39:58):
They like literally tell methat it's way too much work for
them, which is crazy to me.
I'm like do you you do you wantmy help or not?
Yeah, that's kind of minimal,right?
So that's how, like people's um,I just gauge it off of what
you're willing to do because,honestly, everyone's at a
different stage.
Some people will strip backtheir routine like I'll look at

(40:21):
all of their hair care and belike, okay, all of this can go
under your sink for a while.
We're just going to do simplemoisturizing, simple conditioner
and this one scalp serum andwe're going to start here.
We're going to dial it back andstart very simple.
Some people I can jump all theway to.
Here is like a nine-steproutine that you're going to do
twice a week, so it really justdepends on how committed they

(40:44):
are.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
How?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
committed what they're looking for.
A lot of people are catchinghair loss really early these
days, which is amazing.
So, like for them, it's justpreventative.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
And some people.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
it's like we're trying to grow your hair back,
so it's a little bit moreintense.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
The process a lot longer too, for sure.
What are your views on nioxin?
I like nioxin Good.
What are your views on nioxin?

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I like nioxin.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Good.
I hear so many different.
You know so many misconceptionsout there and from my personal
experience I think it's great.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, nioxin is one of the.
There are like a few reallygood brands that I'm like.
They've done the research.
They've worked withdermatologists, trichologists,
like they've worked withliterally everybody, so I'm here
for it.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, okay, good, good, I'm glad you solidify that
for me, because my daughter, uh, she has some, you know, very
minor dry scalp.
You know issues or concerns,but it consistently kept coming
back and there was nothing wecould really do.
I'm like, well, we can't applyoil to it because, depending on
what, what type of dryness thisis, it's gonna make it worse.

(41:46):
So I was like I'm just gonna goget some nioxin yeah, and I did
and it worked, yeah.
But then I talked to, uh, one ofmy she's like an older
cosmetologist.
She was like nioxin is soaggressive and your daughter
she's so young and I was justlike, but it's the only thing
that's helping.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I also feel like especially talking to people
who've, like been in theindustry for a long time.
Things have changed.
You know like if you thinkabout the chemicals that they
were using on their hair versusthe chemicals we're using on our
hair, they're totally different.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I give it a stamp of approval, Okay good, Because I'm
like that's not a thing.
And if it works, it works.
It's the only thing that workedfor her.
So I was like okay, can hairloss be reversed, or or is it
always about management?
It just depends.
Depends on what they're willingto do at home.
Um, I have seen amazing things,yeah, with it being reversed,

(42:39):
but I've also seen people whoare stuck in like the same spot
for a long time because they'renot willing to go home and do
the rest of the work.
So that also goes back to like,what are you willing?
What are you willing to do?
But both it's like a lot ofcatching it early is so
important as well, just for,like, management.
It's so much easier to keephair on your head than grow it

(43:01):
back.
For sure, yeah, so you can do.
Yeah, you absolutely can'tbring it back.
Of course, they're like thereare outliers, so it's like um,
alopecia areata is an autoimmunedisorder that's just going to
continue to flare up.
Like that's not something thatreally anyone can help, because
autoimmune is autoimmune.
Like if your body is going tocontinually attack the hair,

(43:22):
eventually it's not going to beable to regenerate, because
that's happening internally.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, that happened to one of my clients.
She had alopecia areata and Itold her I was like, is
something going on internally,you know?

Speaker 2 (43:36):
and she found out she had lupus I was, I was going to
say it always alopecia areatais like that's the big one to me
that I can't help because thathas to be what about a
dermatologist?
Can a dermatologist help you?
I would send them fully just totheir general practitioner.
Oh, Because they need to gettheir thyroid checked.
They need to get like.
They might have lupus, theymight be hypothyroidism, they

(43:57):
might have Hashimoto's Like.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
When I was in school for hair loss we learned there
are so many very intense thingsthat it could be and that just
needs to be handed off to adoctor and then, once the dying
of the dog doctor, once thedoctor diagnosed, is it safe to
go see a dermatologist or?
Yeah, I feel like that one isreally under, like just a
general doctor's scope if theywanted to grow their hair back
or it just won't grow back thatone it.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
If it's gonna grow back, it'll grow back by itself.
You can get steroid shots inyour scalp, but I'm pretty sure
a general doctor is the one thatdoes the steroid shots.
Okay, gotcha, all right, I knowthat one.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
That one sucks, sorry , I know I'm like is there a
solution?
Tell me a solution.
What can people do daily tomaintain healthy hair and scalp?

Speaker 2 (44:48):
I always say start, start small, right, I like to.
My motto is like I'm gonna meetyou where you are, right, I'm
not gonna we're not gonna jumpahead, we're not gonna like make
this a huge, intense process.
We're gonna meet where you are.
Are you taking multivitamin?
Are you drinking enough water?
Okay, those are just base levelRight.

(45:09):
Maintaining a healthy scalp isjust maintaining a healthy body.
So, if you don't have any hairloss issues that, like we're
presently working with but it'ssomething that you might be like
a little anxious about justtaking care of your body is
going to do it enough.
Are you getting enough exercise?
Exercise promotes circulation.

(45:32):
Circulation is going to promotehair growth, right?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
absolutely are you getting sunlight?
Vitamin d vitamin d is anamazing vitamin.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Vitamin d okay, uh, that's one for me, that's noted
for me, but like, are you justtaking care of your general body
?
Are you moisturizing your scalp?
Your scalp and hair, like Isaid, are symptoms of something
else that's happening.
I just want to drill that in.
Yeah, it's a symptom.
You have dry scalp.
That's a symptom you're eitherdehydrated or something
externally is like throwing youoff or the seasons are changing,

(45:58):
which is like yeah, you know,like you can't help that, but it
is a symptom gotcha.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Are there specific products or ingredients?
Ingredients you suggestavoiding to minimize hair damage
or loss.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
I mean sulfates in general, I really.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
So like, what about Crap Selsun Blue?

Speaker 2 (46:20):
That's good if it's actual dandruff.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
So there is a difference between dandruff and
dry scalp?
Okay, dandruff is.
So there is a differencebetween dandruff and dry scalp.
Okay, dandruff is a fungus,like if you guys look at just
look at pictures of dandruff um,it's yellow or it's greenish
and it's typically gooey andlike gooey oily texture.
That is a fully a fungus.
Um, selsun blue can get rid ofthat.

(46:43):
But if, if you just have likeflaky scalp, like it's white
flakes, they're pretty small,that's just dry scalp If you
were to use selsun blue on that,you're just going to make it so
much worse.
So you got to know what it isto target.
Yeah, you have to know whatyou're looking at in order to
target it.
I don't really like to demonizehonestly any ingredients,

(47:04):
because every body is differentand everybody's threshold is
different.
That's true, right Like thingsthat my scalp would react to
might be amazing on your scalp.
So just, I don't know.
I hate that.
It's like trial and error, butat the same time, it's like it's
a little trial and error.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
It is.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
But avoid sulfates.
You don't need salt on yourscalp, it's just going to dry it
out.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
What do you think about people using Monistat on
their scalp for fungus?
Have you ever heard of that?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
No, I've never heard of that.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yes, there have been some women who have used
Monistat on their scalp wheneverthey have dermatitis or, like
you said, dandruff, because it'sso different from dry scalp.
I'm going to have to look thisup and they said it worked,
worked.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
I've never used it.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
A little crazy, I know, I've never used it but, um
, a couple of my clients haveused it in the past and they
said it worked and I'm like,well, it's a type of fungus too,
right that's why I say, like,everyone's threshold is
different.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
If it worked for them , I'm so happy it worked for
them.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
I've never heard of that personally, but like I
can't believe you never heard it, I heard it like a decade ago
I'll throw I'll, I'll do alittle, a little research yeah,
I've never tried it and ofcourse I've never tried it on my
clients.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
But I was very shocked at you know a few women
saying like I use monistay andit works I just wonder, like,
what the actual activeingredients are, because if
you've noticed, like, especiallyin like hair care coming up, a
lot of hair care is usingskincare ingredients, yeah,
right, because your scalp isskin absolutely.
Um, if I like to talk aboutlike the skinification of scalp,

(48:37):
right, like if you you wouldnever go eight days without
washing your face so why wouldyou do?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
why would you do that on your scalp?
Well, well, yeah, your scalp,yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Also, to go back to your question of things you can
do for your scalp health keep itclean.
I know I'm guilty of telling myclients this years ago of try,
go as long as you can withoutwashing your hair.
It's going to keep your colormore vibrant.
It's going to keep your hairbetter.
Right, Hair and scalp aredifferent.
You would never go eight dayswithout washing your face.

(49:06):
Think of that next time you'rethinking about scalp.
Of course if you don't have anyscalp issues, do what you want.
I'm not going to tell you whatto do.
You know like I'm not going totell you what to do, but just
keep it in mind.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, for sure.
How important is scalp healthin preventing hair loss and what
are some tips for keeping thescalp healthy?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
um, great question.
You want to keep it moisturized, so adding an oil into your
routine is great, especially inlike the drier months here.
Really, looking at theingredients in your products
that you're using, like myshampoo for the winter, is
hyaluronic acid based rightbecause if you start thinking
about your hair care like it'sskincare, it's going to help you

(49:48):
walk back things right, becauseI feel like we are all
well-versed in skincare, like inthe winter.
I use a heavier moisturizer, Iuse hyaluronic acid, so on my
scalp I use an oil treatmentbefore I wash my hair to add
that moisture back into it, somy shampoo isn't as aggressive,
and then I use a hyaluronic acidshampoo and that's going to

(50:10):
help just balance my scalp andbring it back so start thinking
about your scalp as skin.
Treat it like you would yourskin, and you're going to have a
happy and healthy scalp yeah,and if your scalp is healthy,
then your hair yeah, healthyhair starts at the scalp.
Yeah, absolutely, it's whereyour blood follicles are right.
It's like it's the life of yourhair.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
It sure is Absolutely .
What are some challenges youface as a trichologist?

Speaker 2 (50:38):
I think mostly it's like patience, right, like, just
like having patience, it doestake three months to see any
results.
So a lot of clients getdisheartened and you really want
instant results becausetypically by the time you've
seen me, you've been dealingwith this for a long time
already.
So me saying like okay, it'sgoing to be another three months
, it's very disheartening.

(51:00):
So, just like staying thecourse, doing things
consistently.
Consistency is key, but that'sreally the biggest challenge.
Yeah, other than that, I lovethis job.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Okay, good, I feel like that's really minimum too,
because in the hair world it's alot.
It comes with a lot ofdifferent challenges, depending
on what are the needs of theclient.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yeah, I also am really good at setting realistic
expectations.
Good, right, I'm.
I'm not a fairy.
I can't like wave my magic wandand your hair comes back.
I can just make recommendations.
I can show you what to do, butif you're not willing to do it,
that's, that's really it.
Right, it's a collaborativething.
We're a team.
Yeah, that's why I tell them,like, when we sit down, we are a

(51:42):
team.
Now, me and you, yep, and we'rea team.
Yeah, that's why I tell them,like, when we sit down, we are a
team.
Now, me and you, yep, and we'regonna do this together.
Yeah, for sure, because I can'tbe in your shower every day.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, as much as you would want me in there, right, I
can't do it every day, andsometimes I feel as though what
they do at home matters morethan what we do.
You know, we give theinformation and the knowledge,
the education to help them, butwhen you apply it at home,
that's what's going to reallyhelp you excel in your progress.

(52:14):
But if you're not doing it athome, my information means
nothing, it's not even valid youknow Exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
That's what I would say is the biggest challenge.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, for sure.
Have you encountered any mythsor misinformation about hair
loss that you'd like to debunk?

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, oh my God, this is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Oh good.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
So you know that old wives tale.
If you look at your mother'sfather, that's how you can tell
if you're going to lose yourhair.
Thank you, okay, this is a goodone Come on yeah, total, you,
okay, this is a good one.
Come on, yeah, total myth,total myth.
If anybody in your family treehas hair loss, so aunts, uncles,
any of your grandparents evenlook at like your grandma's
right, because a lot of peoplejust look straight for the men

(52:56):
because it's easier to see.
But, like if you're, if any ofyour grandma's cousins, whatever
, if anyone has hair loss, youhave an equal chance of getting
hair loss because it's a geneticmutation it can come from
anybody got you so it's not justyour mother's father.
I'm so sorry because myboyfriend's mother's father has

(53:17):
great hair and I'm like, oh man,but then his dad's bald, so I'm
like, okay, so oh I hate to sayit.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Okay, that's a myth.
I've been telling so manypeople, but up until today I was
saying if you're canita's,clients sorry oh my gosh, I was
mostly, uh, extending it tomales more than females because
I didn't know what it was forwomen but for men I was like, oh

(53:47):
yeah, on your maternal side,you know if.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Myth.
I don't know who started that.
Whoever started that is thegreatest gossip of all time.
Oh goodness, are there any moreout there?
That's like the top one.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
I can think of that's like the top one.
It is yeah, for sure that'slike the top one it is.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, for sure it's the top one.
We'll just leave it with thatone.
I don't want to scare anyonetoo much.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Okay, got you but that's like the only one that
I've ever heard of, right to behonest, yeah, how do you help
clients manage the emotional andpsychological aspects of hair
loss?

Speaker 2 (54:21):
I just want them to feel heard, right.
Feeling hurt I think it's like90 percent of it validating
their experience, like whetherit's hair loss.
I just want them to feel heard,right.
Feeling hurt, I think, is like90 of it validating their
experience, like, whether it'shair loss or breakage, you're
here because, because you'reinsecure, right, like we just
have to like take that with agrain of salt, like like I'm
gonna, I'm here to help you.
I don't I'm not putting blameon anybody, like it's nobody's

(54:46):
fault, right, we're just here tohelp, right.
It's like that, saying likethey'll forget what you said but
they'll remember how you, howthey felt in that moment, just
making sure that everyone feelsseen and heard and they walk
away with a solution.
Yeah, and just just validatethem.
Yeah even if mostly that's whatit is right, even if it's
feeling really dramatic Becausesome people come in and they're

(55:08):
like a little dramatic about it.
I'm like I'm here to validateyour experience.
If that is how you feel, thenthat's real, Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Absolutely.
What advice would you give tosomeone experiencing hair loss
but feeling overwhelmed aboutwhere to start?

Speaker 2 (55:26):
I would say walk it back.
Are you taking multivitamin?
Are you taking care of yourbody?
Start there, Then we can workyour way up to like different
serums, oils and treatments.
But I would rather you dosomething today that you can
control than be overwhelmed andnot do anything.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
For sure.
Do something today that you cancontrol.
Then be overwhelmed to not doanything.
For sure.
Are there any success storiesor memorable moments from your
work that have left a lastingimpact on you?

Speaker 2 (55:53):
yeah, actually, just last week I had a client send me
a picture.
She had a child and then shehad multiple surgeries back to
back.
So that's like three bouts oftelogen effluvium.
Each are different, right, it'seach.
Each one of those have to betreated as different hair loss.
So it's like she lost up to 75of her hair three times in a row

(56:13):
.
She had, like, honestly,nothing left.
So we've been working with herby doing extensions, because
extensions can help your hairgrow, because you're protecting
it.
Um, but she sent me a text thather hair fully fits up into a
ponytail and you can't see anyextensions.
Oh, my goodness, I was soexcited.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Congratulations.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
That's amazing, yeah, so you know, that's why we do
this.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Yeah, makes the job a lot more rewarding whenever you
see the results.
And then you see the clientsthat are sticking and trusting
the process with you.
Whatever advice you are giving,they're following it.
You know, sometimes even withmy own clients.
You know we'll have aconsultation first, usually
before they secure anappointment, a hair appointment
and sometimes I don't believethat they're going to stick with

(56:57):
it because a lot of times theydon't.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
That's like that's something that you learn as a
hairstylist.
I fully believe that people areonly going to do probably 10%
of what I say, or they're goingto do it one time and be like I
did it every week.
I'm like I can see that you'renot doing that every week, I can

(57:20):
see with my eyes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
But when you get those few that really stick to
the instructions, any advicethat you're offering, and they
do it, and you see the results,you'd be like, oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Oh, it renewed my lease on life.
I was like we're doing it, youguys.
I'm not screaming into the voidanymore.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Yeah, and also just the reassurance and the
confidence in your own practice,like I know what I'm talking
anymore.
Yeah, and also just thereassurance and the confidence
in your own practice, like Iknow what I'm talking about.
You know, like if you just geton board, you know it can work
and it can happen for you.
Yes, you know.
So I know to receive that textand you know also seeing her
hair being restored.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Receiving a text that's not like a hey girly text
, yeah, but it's like like arewarding text, you know, like
out of the Bluetooth.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
It's like like a rewarding text, you know, like
out of the bluetooth, like thisis why I love what I do.
You know, like that's the um,the validation, you know.
Are there any um?
I'm sorry, just actually that,if someone is interested in
pursuing a career in trichology,what steps would you recommend
they take?

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I would say do it.
Do it first of all.
Even if you're just going to dothis as a hairstylist, just to
have another like like kind ofnotch in your belt of like I'm
an expert in my field, I canlike talk to anybody, because
there's a lot of people who whoI went to school with, who are
just hairstylists, who are justdoing this to have more
knowledge behind the chair.
Like that is completely valid,right?
Um, you don't have to like gooff and like do scalp treatments

(58:45):
, like all this other stuff.
Like you can just do it for theclients that you have.
Now I would say do yourresearch.
There are like online options.
There are in-person options.
Just be careful and make sureyou're not getting scammed.
There are some that it's likeit's obvious that they're just
trying to sell you product,right?
Just do your.

(59:06):
How do?

Speaker 1 (59:06):
you avoid the scamming.
I just like how do you know?
Like, oh, this is obviously ascam.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
You'll know when you get to the websites.
Yeah, okay, they look scammy,it's going to.
Yes, it's going to look scammy.
Also, if you're like interestedin hair loss but you don't
necessarily want to go fulltrichology route, I'm actually
launching a little education injanuary.
Um, I'm starting with a substack, so it's gonna be like
four articles a month about likevarious hair loss things, like
things that are coming up in theworld, like new technology or

(59:35):
just like basic information, howto talk to clients, um.
So that's coming out in january.
That's good.
I've been writing my littlebooty off, that's great.
That is amazing, right?
So if you don't want to do likea full trichology course, you
just like want to have knowledge, you don't have to do the full
thing, like you can pick andchoose how deep you want to get
into it.

(59:56):
Yeah, because you have.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
You know we I feel like in cosmetology school we do
talk about anatomy andphysiology but you are really
deep within the science of howthis really works.
You know we can do some surfacelevel science.
You know, as a cosmetologist,but with a trichologist like
you're talking about white blood.
You know cells and how thataffects your hair and what you

(01:00:18):
got to do to make wake thoseback up and come back to the
hair.
You know we're not talkingabout that in cosmetology school
.
So even listening to you, I'mlike whoa, that's deep into
science, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
And it goes deeper.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Oh, wow, okay.
How can listeners connect withyou or learn more about your
services?

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
So I'm at AoifeMarieBeauty, which is
A-O-I-F-E Marie Beauty onInstagram.
I also have my salon and headspa in Austin, texas, which is
Amber Salon and Head Spa, and atAmber Salon and Head Spa on
Instagram so you guys can bookfacial scalp facials, you can

(01:00:58):
book treatments, you can book ahair loss consultation.
Also, in January, I'm doing abasic hair analysis so you can
come in and we can scope yourscalp and I'll just tell you
like your porosity, your density, right Things that you want to
know about your scalp.
So if you're not necessarilydealing with hair loss, you can
still come in and get somethingdone.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Oh yeah, I'm definitely going to see you in
January.
I'm curious to know what'sgoing on with my hair besides
just on the surface level.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Exactly Just knowing what to do, um, knowing, like,
what products to buy, based onyour hair's needs, because I
feel like that's kind of a gapthat's missing.
It's like, as a hairstylist, werecommend products but we're
not telling our clients why.
Right, like I recommend thisbecause you're low porosity, or
like I see that your scalp isdehydrated.
Here's what I'm going torecommend for that.

(01:01:43):
Yeah, for sure, and justbuilding out a routine and, like
I said, giving you like acalendar of like.
Here's what I'm going torecommend for that.
Yeah, for sure, and justbuilding out a routine and, like
I said, giving you like acalendar of like.
Here's what your routine.
Here's what an ideal routinewould look like for you.
Yeah, whether you follow it ornot, none of my business.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yeah, but you have the solution, you have the
answers.
Yeah, can you also, before wego, talk more about your
Japanese Hes spa?
Yeah, yeah, because I don'tthink we got to really elaborate
on that.
So you know, just so thelisteners can kind of get a
visual, so not a visual, but youknow, just kind of an
understanding of what that is,because it is like a specialty

(01:02:16):
well, I feel like it's not a lotof people know about it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Yeah, so it is a facial for your scalp.
We're gonna do you get tochoose from from different
things.
So when you come in, I hand youa piece of paper.
You're gonna tell me what youthink is going on with your
scalp because what you think,that's going on, and what I can
see is going on sometimes aren'tthe same thing.
like you might say, you havedandruff, but I see you have dry
scalp, right.
So that way I know, like, howto talk to you about it.

(01:02:40):
So you're gonna tell me how isyour scalp feeling?
Are you typically drier oroilier?
Um, do you want to do?
I have a list of things thatyou can choose from.
So, high frequency, which isusing electricity to wake up
your hair follicles, exfoliation, extra long massage, steam
treatment everything comes witha detox treatment.

(01:03:01):
It's just a great way to likedeep clean your scalp.
It's very relaxing and justtake care of yourself.
Yeah, it also comes with a hairtreatment, so you can also tell
me about your hair.
Does it feel dull, does it feeldry, does it feel damaged?
So that way we can.
We're going to tailoreverything to your hair
specifically, right, and then wehave two options.

(01:03:22):
If you want to leave and airdry your own hair, I'll scrunch
some product into it and you cancall it a day.
Or if you want to like do ablowout, we can add on a blowout
too.
Okay, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Yeah, I love options.
Yeah, for sure.
Especially, you know being ableto come and get that level of
relaxation and also you know therestoration part of learning
what's going on with your hairand scalp and then leave with a
style.
You know sometimes you can'tleave with it all yeah, yeah,
exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Uh.
Yeah, it's like like when Ileave a facial, sometimes I look
like I've been beaten up rightbecause there's oil in my scalp
or whatever.
So like leaving this treatmentand being able to go about your
day is like honestly amazingwell.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Thank you so much for sharing with us today.
I really appreciate you andsharing all the.
I learned a lot, so I know mylisteners are going to learn a
lot and I really appreciate yourtime.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
I'm so excited to be be here absolutely do you want
to tell our listeners about yourpodcast?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
not yet.
Um, my little podcast is onhiatus because, okay, the
editing portion is it's a lot.
I got a lot going on.
Yeah, also, like the sub stackthat's coming out, that's like
really what I want you guys tolike know about, because it's
going to be for stylists.
It's going to be for, like,regular clients too, if you just
want to learn more.
This is like my way of likekind of doing like a little

(01:04:42):
intro.
I also have more onlineeducation coming out next year,
a little hands-on workshop in mysalon as well.
It's going to be tentatively inspring.
Okay, we got a lot coming up,so definitely give me a follow,
because things are cooking,gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
All right, thank you.
Thank you, you're welcome.
That wraps up this enlighteningepisode of Hair.
What I'm Saying?
A huge thank you to Aoife forsharing her expertise and
helping us understand the worldof trichology and hair loss
solutions.
If you're dealing with hairloss or want to prioritize scalp
health, take Aoife's advice toheart.
There's always a path forward.

(01:05:20):
Don't forget to subscribe,leave a review and share this
episode with someone who couldbenefit from it.
Until next time, take care ofyour hair and I'll catch you in
the next episode.
Thank you, thank you.