January 28, 2025 • 39 mins
Have you ever pondered the real purpose of your life? Join us as we kick off with a nod to the Ohio State Buckeyes' national championship victory and explore a topic that strikes a chord with everyone—discovering one's purpose. We share stories of how understanding our purpose can transform lives and the crucial role leadership plays in guiding others towards this realization. Our discussion takes us across the globe, all the way to Germany, where we have a surprising listener, sparking thoughts on just how far-reaching this journey of purpose and leadership can be.
True leadership isn't about the position you hold but about the skills you cultivate. We break down the essential traits that define a great leader—honesty, communication, trust-building, and active listening—and illustrate these with real-world examples, like the strategic prowess of Tom Brady. Our conversation examines the difference between those who lead by title and those who lead by example, stressing the importance of building a team that complements a leader's weaknesses. We delve into the concept of informal leadership and why it's crucial for aligning team efforts towards shared goals.
Leadership is also about fostering growth and development within your team. We explore the art of delegation and its importance in empowering team members to tap into their leadership potential. Drawing inspiration from influential leaders like Kent Wingate and Dr. John Marshall, we underscore the necessity of continuous learning, referencing a poignant quote by John F. Kennedy. As we wrap up, there's room for some lighthearted banter about the Super Bowl showdown between the Chiefs and the Eagles, and we invite our listeners to join the conversation on social media. Your support is what keeps this podcast vibrant and dynamic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, welcome back Half Century Hangout.
Thanks for hanging out with ustoday.
Just want to ask my co-host,Chuck and Luke what's new since
last time.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, guys, we did it .
The Buckeyes, the Ohio StateBuckeyes, are the national
champions, so let's go with that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I didn't know you were part of the team but I
suppose fans are absolutely fans, are you have?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
you have nothing without your fan base, right,
you gotta have.
You gotta have that fan base.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
all I can say is this is you know what I will say
congratulations to the buckeyes,but there is an asterisk after
that national championshipbecause, as we all know, the
Michigan Wolverines defeatedthem in the regular season.
So there is an asterisk afterthat one, but still
congratulations.
But you know, when we won itlast year we were undefeated, so
(00:57):
there was no asterisk afterours.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So I'll tell you what I told a buddy of mine, robert.
Okay, I told him, robert saidthe same thing.
He's a Michigan fan, he wearsthat color all the time and I
said, Robert, that is a familydiscussion, so butt out.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, I feel like we're family, chuck, so we can
have it.
Yeah, I guess we are.
It's all good, it's fine, allright, good enough, on a
different note, not to shut thatdown, but hey, 65 downloads of
the podcast last week.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I've been watching that.
That was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That is awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And where'd they come from?
All over the place, but we hadone from Germany, germany.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yep, holy cow, I didn't even know that.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I mean it was crazy, but I'll give a shout out to
Wine Michigan.
Appreciate you guys, Love you.
Hope you tune in for the nextone.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know we kind of expect some of those ones around
like Omaha Council Bluffs, youknow.
But you know I saw them in SanFrancisco, denver, kansas City.
I thought that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, it is pretty cool Down in Florida.
You know they're all over theplace.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, tampa, I saw one down in Tampa.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So nice to have you guys hanging out with us.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Here's the cool thing If you are listening in some of
those cities and maybe wedidn't mention, just write us up
a review, shoot us a five-star,four-star review, whatever, and
we'd love to hear from you.
If you put your name down there, we'll be sure to give you a
shout-out on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
We're huge on shout-outs.
We are.
We can give shout-outs toanybody.
We're good, you let us know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Shout-outs to anybody , we're good, you let us know,
just like the Ohio StateBuckeyes, we're nothing without
our fan base.
This show is nothing withoutour listeners.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
You are right, because if we're just sitting
here talking, who's listening?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Exactly oh you know what I forgot to say?
We are hanging out today inLuke's Garage.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And what a fine establishment Luke's Garage is.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Thanks, guys Appreciate it.
It's fun.
Like I said in the last episode, we solve a lot of problems
here and probably cause a fewalong the way.
But, we've had a lot of greatconversations with different
people here among my family andpeople.
John, where we're sitting hereyou can see, this is where my
kids carve different collegesand different things into the
(03:00):
wood at the top of the bar.
That's our little bar top, soit's good.
Everybody's got their initialsin there.
You know, I'm surprised, luke,that you've got an N here.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, you know I have some family members that
graduated from UNL, so we've gotit and you know what I love
them.
They're great.
You didn't sand that off.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
No, didn't sand it off, it's theirs right in the
middle.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I noticed there's a couple of Michigans around it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
There are, there are, there are.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, guys.
So, man, I don't know if you'veever had this type of person
around you or not, but I alwaysenjoy being around someone who
understands purpose and theimportance that it has in our
lives.
I believe one of the deepestcravings of humanity is that
each of us know our purpose.
I honestly think that that'ssomething that we all kind of
(03:47):
strive for.
You know, and I remember one ofthe things that impressed me
about people that I wouldconsider mentors or leaders or
people that I would look up to,was that they reminded me of
that simple reality of what ismy purpose, or that I have
purpose.
They would actually impressthat on me I have purpose.
They would actually impressthat on me I have purpose.
So over the years, I've ledteams.
(04:09):
As I've led teams, I've alwaystried to think about it this way
that leadership, which is kindof what we're diving into today
leadership is helping othersknow that they have a purpose,
and leading is helping themfulfill that purpose.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So I thought we'd maybe start the podcast off by
talking about that I think,chuck, you hit the nail on the
head where that purpose is ahuge part, and in our line of
work, which we've spoken aboutbefore, that's one of the things
that I think that we reallyneed to work on is that there's
a lot of people that come acrossour doorstep that don't have a
(04:46):
purpose or don't know whattheirs is, and it's not that
we're giving them one.
It's that we're trying to helpthem realize what theirs is.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Discover, just getting them there, you know,
getting them to the point wherethey figure something out and
all of a sudden they have thatmoment.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Whatever that moment might look like, it might be the
aha moment, it might be theheavens opened up, whatever it
is, and I think that that's ahuge piece that we go through.
So, going into that leadershippiece, I think that's a big
thing, and one of the thingsthat I know that we spoke about
and we've talked about is thatwe want to dive into this topic
(05:20):
about leadership.
But when we brought it up lastepisode as well, it kind of came
into that conversation that wehad.
But there is a differencebetween simply being a leader
and having the skills ofleadership.
It's two different things.
So, John, if you've got anycomment about that I mean that's
somewhere I think we couldstart it off is that?
(05:40):
Is there a difference betweenbeing a leader and having
leadership?
Because I think I feel it's acouple different things.
Like it could go either way.
What do you think, John?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Absolutely.
I think that leadership skillsare a lot different than being a
leader.
I think that when you are aleader, you have people that
will follow you and I thinkthose skills come into effect
(06:12):
when you lead people.
The skills you know, I think youhave to be honest.
I think you have to createtrust with your people.
I think you have to be able tocommunicate with your people,
and that's a lot of differentways.
You got to be able to listen tothem.
(06:32):
You got to be able to there'sthat listen thing again.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I was going to come back.
It's always a big one.
You got to be able to listen.
You got to be able to talk tothem and gotta, you gotta be
able to communicate that messageof what's our purpose yeah as a
group because, I think I thinkone of the things that I looked
at I know that we see this a lotum in our day-to-day work that
(06:57):
that we share is that there canbe leaders.
They don't always have to bepositive leaders, right.
I mean we all know that personwho just happens to be the head
of a group of people that isn'tnecessarily positive.
It doesn't have to always be apositive thing to be a leader,
(07:18):
but I think, john, like you said, those leadership skills are.
What makes the difference isthat you are leading a group of
people in a positive direction,toward a common goal, whatever
that would be.
And I think that that is a bigthing, with showing initiative,
inspiring people that are aroundyou.
(07:39):
There's so many leaders that wecould talk about, and one of the
ones that came into my mind aswe were talking about it and I'm
sure you guys know the name,but Lee Iacocca is one that
comes to my mind and, as youguys heard before, you know, I
grew up in Michigan, in theDetroit area, so a lot of the
things that I talk about have todo with the auto industry.
They just do, and Lee Iacocca,who's always kind of given the
(08:00):
credit for rebuilding ChryslerCorporation when it went down in
the 80s.
An often not known fact aboutLee Iacocca is that he was also
on the original design team forthe Ford.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Mustang, I was wondering if he was going to
bring that up.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
One of the best things that ever happened to the
auto industry ever, I mean itstill to this day is like the
initial model that sold the mostthan any other additional model
since then.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Totally changed the car world.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
It did and you look at it and you can.
John, you started to talk aboutthose things, about leadership
and the skills that it takes notjust to be a leader but to
really lead people in a commondirection for a common goal.
I mean, that's where it's at,yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
As I hear you guys talking, a couple things stand
out to me.
I think there are leaders thatare like positionally situated,
and then there are yourpractical leaders.
So I think it works both ways.
Not all people who are in aleadership position are made to
(09:05):
lead, or even know how to lead,or maybe are competent lead yeah
but then down on the practicalpiece.
You have people who are, whopractically lead, just because
it's a natural gift yeah andthey can use that gift either
for the good or for the negative, right, right?
So I mean, some think of alcapone.
(09:26):
Al capone was a leaker leader,right?
Um and uh, he used that giftnegatively, yeah, but he was a
leader and there are things that, oh, without a doubt, don't get
me started on the mafia.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
You know I love that stuff, and and you're, but
you're right, though, is that it?
It's one of those things whereyou know, one of the leadership
ideas that I've always used isyou.
You hire your weakness because,if I, if I know that I have a
weakness of leadership let's sayit's communication I would love
(10:00):
to hire somebody on my teamthat's strong in that oh sure,
because you, you know I canstill work on that weakness of
mine, but I know that it is.
And if I hire somebody that'sthere, that's building a team
that's building leadership,that's building a team that's
going to move forward toward acommon goal, whatever that is,
yeah, I think also what.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
what you need to be as a leader is somebody who
makes other people better andtowards that common goal, and
you help to create the peoplethat you need.
You hire the people that youneed, but you also make those
(10:38):
people better.
I mean, Delve into that alittle more.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
John about better, I don't know Tom.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Brady, where did he go to college?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Michigan.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Okay, so the man actually was not much in college
, was he?
He was, he was a backup and andhe came to the NFL and, you
know, by circumstance, became astarting quarterback.
And every time I I honestly Ido not like the new england
(11:10):
patriots, but I like tom brady,yeah, and the man just made
everybody around him better andhis goal, I think, was to win
super bowls yeah, yeah and hedid with two different teams and
it was because every time thosereceivers turned over or the
(11:32):
running back turned over or histeam turned over, he was there
and he was leading them in acertain way.
And I think that's whatleadership is is making those
people better so you can get tothat common goal.
And you have to watch out ortalk to the people who are the
(11:54):
informal leaders.
I'll call them the ones thathave those leadership qualities
that do lead in yourorganization, and you have to
help them to understand theirpurpose and the purpose of our
organization.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, and I think you bring up.
In bringing up Tom Brady,there's an important aspect
about him he always competed forthe position of quarterback.
Even when he was head coach ofMichigan, Lloyd Carr, I think it
was his senior year Tom Bradyhad compete for the position of
(12:33):
quarterback and they went backand forth for quite a while and
then he got into the NFL,competed against Drew Bledsoe,
you know, with the New EnglandPatriots.
But all that competition itmade him competent and he became
the best in his craft becausehe honed that skill over and
over, and over and over.
(12:53):
And so there's a level ofleadership where you have to be
competent in order to lead inthe area that you're in your
area of expertise.
But he couldn't have been alineman, he couldn't have been a
running back.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, this is true.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You know he didn't have that skill so he had to go
out and make sure he had thatskill right.
But the other side, I think, ofcompetence that I always like
to talk about is character.
You can have all kinds ofcompetence, and Simon Sinek
talks about this quite a bit,that you can have all kinds of
competence.
But competence, unhinged, kindof just makes somebody a jerk.
(13:30):
They make somebody like thestar, without knowing how to
treat others, and so thecharacter piece of it I think is
an important piece whenever youtalk about leadership as well.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, and I think what happens when you have the
competence without the character?
Sometimes you lead in such away that when you leave that
organization, the organization,falls apart because you are
leading in such a way that ithelps everybody get there, but
(14:06):
you're the glue that holdseverything together.
What you have to do is helpeverybody else around you be
better yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I think I was looking at an article my wife actually
sent it to me and it was talkingabout companies firing Gen Z
employees, which we could go waydown the list on that one, but
they were talking about the GenZ people and one of the things
was when, john, you hit it onthe head there where you said
that one of the things of beinga leader is getting people to be
(14:42):
better at what they do or howthey act or whatever that would
happen to be, and getting thembetter as leaders.
These business owners aretrying to teach and it cracks me
up to teach.
You'd figure that collegestudents coming out of school
now would know this because ofthe times.
But these employers and evenMichigan State University which
(15:04):
I don't talk about MichiganState very often, but they have
had to now teach students how tohandle a networking
conversation.
Oh wow, like they have to go inand they have now teach students
how to handle a networkingconversation oh wow, Like they
have to go in and they have toteach them how to look for signs
that the other party isstarting to get bored and that
it's time to move on.
But these are skills thatthey're coming out of college
and they don't have.
So when we talk about, you know, being a leader, like you said,
(15:28):
John, you've got to meet thoseguys wherever they're at, and
you've got to somehowfundamentally figure out you
know where are we and where wewant to go, and what's that road
look like between those twothings and how to get them
better, and I think that summedit up great.
I mean, john, I think that wasright.
There is that that leader hasto look and they have to be able
(15:49):
to see.
That too.
That's a skill as well, just byitself is to be able to look
and see.
Yeah, we know we're the endresult like we think we want to
be, but to really be able toagain, here's the word listen,
hear people, see where they'reat, figure it out, and sometimes
we'd like to make sure we getthat all done during a hiring
process or something else.
But we realize that doesn'talways happen.
(16:10):
It doesn't always happen thatway?
Sometimes it's a dog and ponyshow and you fall into it and
you've got a person who, youknow what, isn't as close to the
goal as you thought they were.
Right.
But our job as leaders or youknow, to show those leadership
skills is to see where they'reat and to try to help them get
there, because that's the job,that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, and what it is.
Yeah, and I, I think sometimeswhen um, they I can't remember
who it is that gave the um theexample or you might know, john,
because we've talked about itbefore.
But, uh, you got to know wherethe bus is going and then get
the right people, or get tomaybe get the wrong people off
the bus, get the right people onthe bus and then get those
(16:47):
right people in the right seatson the bus, yeah yeah and um, I
think it, you know I've been ina bus with the wrong driver a
few times.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, just saying, well, you know you do work with
sports, so yeah, it has.
That's the way it goessometimes they don't know where
they're going, do they?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I mean some of those, yeah, literally, um, I think,
when we talk about those skills,I mean I think the skills range
from so many different things,but some of the ones that I
really you know, look at and try.
You know, in our intro and inour North Stars we've talked
about this, how this podcast forus.
We want to get better at whatwe do as well.
(17:26):
I mean, this is where we hitideas off of each other and
learn it, and one of the thingsthat I look at as aspiring to be
a great leader and theseleadership skills.
I mean we brought up honesty,we brought up integrity,
basically, but being able todelegate is a gigantic one.
Oh yeah.
You know, being a leader isn'tjust about controlling every
(17:48):
single little thing that it was.
I mean you can't do that.
And if you think you can,you're going to fail, You're
going to crash and burn.
You can't do it.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Or your organization is going to fall apart when you
leave.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, that too.
It's that North Star that wetalked about in the first
episode, where I said you reallycan only work with what you
really have control over and youhave to be able to relinquish
some of that control and thatdelegation to others for some of
those things, because as aleader you're not going to be
able to do it all.
(18:20):
You're not going to be able to.
We might want to.
Some people think you know, arethere overachievers or they're
going to do this, but basicallywhat I think they would do is
burn out in a hurry, and we seethat a lot.
I mean, you see that withcoaches, you see that with
bosses, you see that with CEOs,you see that with a lot of
people, right?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, principals too, I mean it happens, hey, and you
bring up a good point, seeingwhere they are when we are
assessing them and saying, hey,this person could be a leader in
my organization and I'm gonnagive them a little bit more
(19:00):
responsibility to help them getto that purpose that they have
and help them understand whothey are in our organization and
help our organization.
By the way, it's Jim Collins,with Good to Great.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Oh, is he the one who the bus example?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Which is a really good book.
Good to Great.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I'd like to hear a little bit more about
this delegation piece becausefor me, I think over the the
years that's probably been thehardest thing to do and, as I
reflect just on that, the reasonI most likely don't delegate
and you guys chime in on this isthat I don't think anybody can
(19:47):
do it as good as I can you knowwhat, and it's funny, and I knew
where you were going as soon asI saw the look on your face,
chuck, and I could tell and thisis how well we know each other
folks is is this is somethingthat, um, I'm not proud of it or
anything but, uh, as a parent,um, I did this too much, too
many times where I didn't havemy kids do something like a
(20:10):
chore or whatever it was,because I'm like I'm gonna
have to redo it.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I'm gonna have to do it over yep, because they're not
gonna do it up to my you know,which at the time seemed like a
like a time-saving kind of thing, but it really wasn't.
It was more of a proud pridething and and it's like you know
what I could teach them and gostep by step with them and tell
them what that looks like, whatit feels like.
You know all these things and Ipassed up on some of those
(20:34):
opportunities and I think thatit's real that you say that as a
leader, because it's real, andthink of it this way In recent
events for those of you that aresports fans the Detroit Lions
just had one of their bestseasons ever.
(20:55):
Right, I mean great season Headcoach.
You know Campbell, he's great,you know, but what did he do?
He built a coaching staff ofleaders and his offensive
coordinator and his defensivecoordinator both got head
coaching jobs.
Now that's a feather in yourhat.
Now you hate to lose thosepeople, but that's what you're
(21:16):
trying to do is you're trying tobuild a team where people are
going to advance right.
I mean you're not just helpingwhatever your group or your job
or your corporation or whateverthat is, it's not just them.
You're helping those peopleBecause, like you said, john,
(21:38):
some of those people don'tnecessarily always know that
they have leadership qualities.
Sometimes they do, sometimesthey think they do, when they
don't.
But, they also the other timesjust maybe don't have a high
enough self-esteem or they don'tthink that they could do
something like that.
But if we listen hard enoughand we look at those little
intangibles, whatever that is,and I just think that that
delegation piece is one of theways that you kind of strain
(22:02):
through and figure out, you givethese people a little job here,
a little more responsibility,whatever that is, and you coach
them through it and you try toget them through it and you're
going to be able to tell in ahurry if they can or they can't.
Right, you know.
And I think that, besides thatpart, that delegation piece is
gigantic because everybody on ateam or a group has to do their
(22:25):
part to reach that common goal.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So does that mean that if you're delegating to
somebody that, honestly, theymay not do it as good as you,
you may be, maybe you have 15,20 more years experience or
whatever.
Maybe you're skilled better.
Whatever, you're delegating itto somebody who may not be as
good as you, does that mean thatyou have to be okay with, like,
not it being excellent?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
No, no, I think that we've gone through that in
education, where it's GRR right,gradual Release of
Responsibility.
This is something that we dowith students, but I think that
you do it with a leadershipgroup as well.
And just like I was talkingabout with being a parent is
that if I'm delegating somethingto you and I feel in my heart
that I'm going to be better atit than you are, that's okay.
(23:12):
But I want to teach you how atleast I think as the leader, it
should be done.
Now, on the flip side of that,you might have some ideas that I
didn't know about.
So I have to be open at thesame time.
But that delegation piece, Ithink, builds trust open at the
(23:32):
same time.
But that delegation piece, Ithink, builds trust with the
other person.
that, hey he's really lookingout for me or he's got some
faith in me and hopefully thathelps them.
Yeah, but it's hard to let thatrain go and to say hey, but at
the same time maybe the first,however long it is, month or two
or whatever it is it's going totake a lot of follow-up with
you with them, to help them getto the point where they're at
(23:56):
least competent or better.
You know what I mean, Yep yep,yep, which sounds really bad,
but I don't know another way toput it.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
And delegation means that I am letting that person do
what they need to do.
What I'm doing as a leader, asa builder, is being out in front
of those people as a leader andI'm letting them learn how to
(24:29):
be that leader, them learn howto be that leader.
What I'm trying to do,ultimately fortunate or
unfortunate, I don't know which,but what I'm trying to do is
work myself as out of a job.
I'm trying to help those peoplebe a leader so that when I'm
gone, when'm done, those peoplecan take over Right, where
(24:53):
you're left off.
And we see that in.
You know, we work in a highschool.
We said that we work with kidsthat are anywhere from 14 to 18,
19 years old and we're tryingto help them find their purpose,
be leaders.
And sometimes that's reallyhard to let them and watch them
(25:20):
to maybe stumble right, not fail.
But stumble.
And it's up to us to help pickthem up and get them on the
right track, find their purposeand help them to be that leader
that they can be.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I think the other part of it.
There's one other small partthat I just wanted to say is
that if we're in a position ofleadership whatever that
position is and you are bringingpeople onto your team whether
that means hiring them orbringing them into your garage
or whatever it is, you know whatI mean.
Whatever that group is, youkind of have to screen them a
(26:04):
little bit.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh sure.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Like, if I know that, chuck, I'm bringing you onto my
team and your strength iscommunication, but I give you, I
delegate to you, a bunch ofstuff about operations.
That's not setting you up forsuccess either.
So again and I know we'vecircled back to it a hundred
(26:26):
times, it seems already and it'sonly episode two, but it's that
listening piece and you've gotto listen to people and really
delve into what not only youthink their strengths are, but
what they think they are.
And that's hard.
It's a hard thing.
Delegation is not easy.
That's why I put it on there,because I think it spurns a lot
of great conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It does, and I think part of the process that may
help, that is, the good booksays that there's wisdom in a
multitude of counsel, right?
So if you're considering anindividual, then bring more
people around.
And we've all made our share ofmistakes of bringing people
onto a team that maybe wethought was a good fit, but
(27:07):
somebody else was like ah, Idon't know about this one, chuck
, you know.
Or I don't know about this one,john.
Um, there's a another goodquote I heard.
It kind of takes theconversation a little bit of a
different direction, but it saysbe careful who you let on your
ship, because some people mightsink the whole ship just because
they can't be the captain, youknow.
But you know, once you havethat organization and you are
(27:30):
kind of building thatorganization, yeah, you got to
be careful, you got to vetpeople, maybe a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So well, I've had those conversations before about
, you know, if I have somebodysitting in front of me who, at
the end of an interview or evenin the middle of it, and I think
, man, this person is turnkey,they could take my job today.
I have to be honest with myselfand kind of talk to this person
, be like, hey, you know whatyou're a, this person is turnkey
(27:56):
, they could take my job today.
I have to be honest with myselfand kind of talk to this person
and be like, hey, you know what, you're a little overqualified
for this job, like you've donethis, this, this.
You know, you might want to lookat a little bit bigger of his
role, unless they have aspecific reason for wanting that
role, whatever it is.
But I think that we need to behonest with ourselves and be
like know, there's some peoplethat, like you said, maybe they
in their interview you'restealing interviews, you know
stealing ideas from them becausethey're giving you stuff and
(28:17):
they're like wow, I neverthought of that that's a great
idea, you know that's.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's another quality of leadership, too is
being honest with people andsaying here's what I see in you,
or or here's what I don't seein you, and making sure that
you're honest.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
And I think we can look at.
There's so many things withleadership and this topic is
probably going to go over intoour next episode.
I mean there's things that arealways going to be interlaced
with it next episode.
I mean there's things that arealways going to be interlaced
with it.
But I think that you know, whenwe talk about, you know society
and people and all the thingsthat we do in our world but that
(29:00):
you guys are going to beletting us know about.
You know, this is so importantbecause we see leaders and I
know sometimes and I'm justgoing to say it that I think
that we see leaders sometimesthat we don't want to admit that
they're leaders because wedon't like the direction that
they go.
Sure, but you know what?
They're still leaders.
Okay, now what direction theygo, that's a whole different
(29:21):
discussion.
But there's always been leadersin history, forever.
Right, yeah, that people don'talways agree with Right, and
that's okay.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But there are certain qualitiesthat leaders true leaders and
successful leaders have, andthese are just, we've just
scratched the surface.
I mean, we haven't even gonethat deep yet.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
We have, you know yeah, so let's, um, let's, maybe
just can we just go around thetable and talk about, like, who
is a leader, whether it'ssomebody that led us, or maybe
it's somebody that look, youknow from a distance that we've
admired, that we've maybe stolena few things from?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
boy, that's something to think about you're still
thinking I am, so go ahead I can.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I can tell you right now, without without even
thinking too hard about it, myhigh school football coach 100%
best probably man that I've evermet in my life as far as the
things that he did in his ownlife with raising kids in a
terrible neighborhood in Detroit, sending them all through a
Lutheran high school, teachingin that high school, his wife
(30:29):
working in the cafeteria andjust being the best mentor to
young men and having that as thebasis of his coaching style.
Whether he was on the field, hewas also the wrestling coach.
He was also a PE teacher.
This is the guy that I had todo square dancing with in PE
(30:50):
class.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You square danced with him.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I did because there was more guys than there were
girls, and I was the tallest onein line so I had to and he came
up to me and you're leading.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Bow to your partner.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And it was one of those things where he was always
just a beacon of light in mylife.
He was always somebody that youcould look up to, somebody that
you could.
You never had to worry aboutasking him a question.
I mean, obviously he was a verystrong coach, he was a very
dedicated coach, he was a greatcoach.
He's in the Michigan HighSchool Football Coaches Hall of
(31:28):
Fame.
Oh, wow.
High School Football CoachesHall of Fame, oh wow.
And he just went over the topwith making young men out of
young boys, if you want to sayyeah, that's good.
And he was so good.
He was just and it was.
Obviously it was a Lutheranhigh school, so there was a lot
of things about our faith andthings that were included in
(31:48):
everything that we did.
And, as I remember, as I wentto college which was the same
college that one of his sonswent to he I was worried.
It was the first game I wasgoing to start as a freshman.
I kind of jumped in there atthe end and I was in the locker
room before the game and heshowed up and I had my head down
, I was kind of trying to psychmyself out and I feel this hand
(32:09):
on my shoulder and it was him.
He came to see the game becausehis son was also playing.
He was a couple years olderthan me, but just that, I was
fine.
All that anxiety, everythingthat I had was gone because I
knew he was there.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Great man, just a great man.
So let me ask Luke, how manygraduated in your class in high
school?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I think it was less than 100.
I want to say it was like 85 or87, something like that.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So I grew up in a small town as well.
I can't really put my finger onexactly one person, but my high
school teachers wereinspirational and leaders to me
who again helped young peoplegrow into adulthood and get to
(32:57):
where they needed to be.
Probably one of the reasons Ibecame a teacher was those
teachers that I had, and I thinkthat we all can probably look
at somebody who made adifference in our lives.
That might have been either ateacher or maybe a pastor or
(33:19):
somebody in our past thatexemplified that type of
leadership that we want to haveor to be.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, it probably wasn't a fair question because I
couldn't think of just one.
I break it up into likedifferent genres, right.
So when I think of somebody whotaught me how to be a good
family man, I think of KentWingate from Patterson Park
Church in Beaver Creek, ohio.
Just an amazing dude man.
Showed me what it looked liketo love your wife and love your
(33:50):
kids.
When I think about a goodpastor, I think a guy by the
name of Dr John Marshall fromSpringfield Missouri.
Just an incredible man, lovedJesus, just a great man to kind
of pattern your life after.
And then when I think of justgeneral leadership, guys who
know how to replicate leadersthemselves, because they I don't
(34:14):
know, I don't know if it's asystem, I'm not sure, but the
again it's pastors.
You guys know me, but it's thepastors of the City Light family
.
You know guys like you knowGavin Johnson, chris Horuska,
doug Stevens, eric Wiggum, someof those guys who really invest
and replicate other leaders andas it turns out, they're doing
(34:39):
some really good things.
So I can't really break it upinto one.
You know, my football coach isa good dude.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I could have named a bunch I'm sure you could have.
We could go on an episode aboutthis.
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Well, guys, that was a great, great discussion.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
You want me to do a quote oh yeah, so we end with a
quote there I think, um, one ofthe ones that, um, I looked at
and when I was talking aboutleadership and obviously we've,
we've hit on this subject, wehit on it a lot in the first
episode.
Really, you know, as I listenedto the first episode, we really
did I mean listened to thefirst episode, we really did.
I mean the leadership piecekind of came out there, which
(35:16):
was good, because I like theidea that we spring ideas that
then go into the next episode,because I think it's a natural
progression to go, but, john FKennedy, leadership and learning
are indispensable to each other.
John F Kennedy, leadership andlearning are indispensable to
each other.
And I think that the minutethat a leader thinks that they
know everything and they're notgoing to be a leader anymore
(35:38):
Right, because they're stagnant,they're just going to stay.
And we've all seen those people, whether we knew them
personally or not, but we've allseen those people, whether it
was in history, whether it'ssomething that we've experienced
in our lives, you know, in thehalf century that we've been on
the face of this earth, Right.
I mean, I think that that's abig one, and I think that if we
ever stop learning, or wantingto learn, even for that matter,
(36:00):
then you know, what we've kindof stagnated Learning and
leading go together.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
That's great.
Hang your boots up.
Love it Awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
We've probably come time to finish up.
Well, wait, we should probablylike you know what's coming out.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
You know soon here is the Super Bowl.
I mean that's the.
Chefs and the Eagles right.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yep Chiefs and the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
You know, are you a Chiefs fan?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
No, not really Good.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
I know John's not.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I'm more of a Pittsburgh Steeler fan.
Yeah, you know, that's's okay,I'm fine, I was rooting for
Detroit.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
I did laugh because I saw a meme yesterday, I think
it was, which was they havethose maps that says who's
rooting for who across thecountry.
So they had the Kansas Citylogo right over Kansas City and
they had the Philadelphia logoover Philadelphia and the rest
of the country was gray and thegray color was hoping for a
(36:53):
meteor shower.
It was great.
I thought it was great becauseI don't know that.
I know Kansas City fans are andPhilly is too.
I guess just for giggles, I'dlike to see the Eagles win, just
because.
I don't really have a horse inthe race, so I don't say too
much.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I kind of want to see Patrick Mahomes do something
nobody else has ever done.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
You know I always root for the AFC, so oh, I'm
rooting for Kansas.
It's all right.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
It's okay.
Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
All right, guys.
Well, hey, just a quick thing.
If you like what you heardtoday, or if you like what you
heard in our first episode, besure to go to our brand new
Facebook page, half CenturyHangout.
You can find it on Facebook.
We're also on Instagram,twitter and TikTok and, if you
would, if you enjoyed what youheard today, go ahead and send
(37:43):
us a message via text.
It's on all the differentplatforms that you're able to
listen to.
Shoot us an email, like andsubscribe guys.
Email, like and subscribe guys.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
so appreciate you guys.
Thanks for hanging out, thankyou.
Hey, welcome back Half Century Hangout.
Thanks for hanging out with ustoday.
Just want to ask my co-host,Chuck and Luke what's new since
last time.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, guys, we did it .
The Buckeyes, the Ohio StateBuckeyes, are the national
champions, so let's go with that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I didn't know you were part of the team but I
suppose fans are absolutely fans, are you have?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
you have nothing without your fan base, right,
you gotta have.
You gotta have that fan base.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
all I can say is this is you know what I will say
congratulations to the buckeyes,but there is an asterisk after
that national championshipbecause, as we all know, the
Michigan Wolverines defeatedthem in the regular season.
So there is an asterisk afterthat one, but still
congratulations.
But you know, when we won itlast year we were undefeated, so
(00:57):
there was no asterisk afterours.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So I'll tell you what I told a buddy of mine, robert.
Okay, I told him, robert saidthe same thing.
He's a Michigan fan, he wearsthat color all the time and I
said, Robert, that is a familydiscussion, so butt out.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, I feel like we're family, chuck, so we can
have it.
Yeah, I guess we are.
It's all good, it's fine, allright, good enough, on a
different note, not to shut thatdown, but hey, 65 downloads of
the podcast last week.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I've been watching that.
That was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That is awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And where'd they come from?
All over the place, but we hadone from Germany, germany.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yep, holy cow, I didn't even know that.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I mean it was crazy, but I'll give a shout out to
Wine Michigan.
Appreciate you guys, Love you.
Hope you tune in for the nextone.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know we kind of expect some of those ones around
like Omaha Council Bluffs, youknow.
But you know I saw them in SanFrancisco, denver, kansas City.
I thought that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, it is pretty cool Down in Florida.
You know they're all over theplace.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, tampa, I saw one down in Tampa.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So nice to have you guys hanging out with us.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Here's the cool thing If you are listening in some of
those cities and maybe wedidn't mention, just write us up
a review, shoot us a five-star,four-star review, whatever, and
we'd love to hear from you.
If you put your name down there, we'll be sure to give you a
shout-out on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
We're huge on shout-outs.
We are.
We can give shout-outs toanybody.
We're good, you let us know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Shout-outs to anybody , we're good, you let us know,
just like the Ohio StateBuckeyes, we're nothing without
our fan base.
This show is nothing withoutour listeners.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
You are right, because if we're just sitting
here talking, who's listening?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Exactly oh you know what I forgot to say?
We are hanging out today inLuke's Garage.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And what a fine establishment Luke's Garage is.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Thanks, guys Appreciate it.
It's fun.
Like I said in the last episode, we solve a lot of problems
here and probably cause a fewalong the way.
But, we've had a lot of greatconversations with different
people here among my family andpeople.
John, where we're sitting hereyou can see, this is where my
kids carve different collegesand different things into the
(03:00):
wood at the top of the bar.
That's our little bar top, soit's good.
Everybody's got their initialsin there.
You know, I'm surprised, luke,that you've got an N here.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, you know I have some family members that
graduated from UNL, so we've gotit and you know what I love
them.
They're great.
You didn't sand that off.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
No, didn't sand it off, it's theirs right in the
middle.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I noticed there's a couple of Michigans around it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
There are, there are, there are.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, guys.
So, man, I don't know if you'veever had this type of person
around you or not, but I alwaysenjoy being around someone who
understands purpose and theimportance that it has in our
lives.
I believe one of the deepestcravings of humanity is that
each of us know our purpose.
I honestly think that that'ssomething that we all kind of
(03:47):
strive for.
You know, and I remember one ofthe things that impressed me
about people that I wouldconsider mentors or leaders or
people that I would look up to,was that they reminded me of
that simple reality of what ismy purpose, or that I have
purpose.
They would actually impressthat on me I have purpose.
They would actually impressthat on me I have purpose.
So over the years, I've ledteams.
(04:09):
As I've led teams, I've alwaystried to think about it this way
that leadership, which is kindof what we're diving into today
leadership is helping othersknow that they have a purpose,
and leading is helping themfulfill that purpose.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So I thought we'd maybe start the podcast off by
talking about that I think,chuck, you hit the nail on the
head where that purpose is ahuge part, and in our line of
work, which we've spoken aboutbefore, that's one of the things
that I think that we reallyneed to work on is that there's
a lot of people that come acrossour doorstep that don't have a
(04:46):
purpose or don't know whattheirs is, and it's not that
we're giving them one.
It's that we're trying to helpthem realize what theirs is.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Discover, just getting them there, you know,
getting them to the point wherethey figure something out and
all of a sudden they have thatmoment.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Whatever that moment might look like, it might be the
aha moment, it might be theheavens opened up, whatever it
is, and I think that that's ahuge piece that we go through.
So, going into that leadershippiece, I think that's a big
thing, and one of the thingsthat I know that we spoke about
and we've talked about is thatwe want to dive into this topic
(05:20):
about leadership.
But when we brought it up lastepisode as well, it kind of came
into that conversation that wehad.
But there is a differencebetween simply being a leader
and having the skills ofleadership.
It's two different things.
So, John, if you've got anycomment about that I mean that's
somewhere I think we couldstart it off is that?
(05:40):
Is there a difference betweenbeing a leader and having
leadership?
Because I think I feel it's acouple different things.
Like it could go either way.
What do you think, John?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Absolutely.
I think that leadership skillsare a lot different than being a
leader.
I think that when you are aleader, you have people that
will follow you and I thinkthose skills come into effect
(06:12):
when you lead people.
The skills you know, I think youhave to be honest.
I think you have to createtrust with your people.
I think you have to be able tocommunicate with your people,
and that's a lot of differentways.
You got to be able to listen tothem.
(06:32):
You got to be able to there'sthat listen thing again.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I was going to come back.
It's always a big one.
You got to be able to listen.
You got to be able to talk tothem and gotta, you gotta be
able to communicate that messageof what's our purpose yeah as a
group because, I think I thinkone of the things that I looked
at I know that we see this a lotum in our day-to-day work that
(06:57):
that we share is that there canbe leaders.
They don't always have to bepositive leaders, right.
I mean we all know that personwho just happens to be the head
of a group of people that isn'tnecessarily positive.
It doesn't have to always be apositive thing to be a leader,
(07:18):
but I think, john, like you said, those leadership skills are.
What makes the difference isthat you are leading a group of
people in a positive direction,toward a common goal, whatever
that would be.
And I think that that is a bigthing, with showing initiative,
inspiring people that are aroundyou.
(07:39):
There's so many leaders that wecould talk about, and one of the
ones that came into my mind aswe were talking about it and I'm
sure you guys know the name,but Lee Iacocca is one that
comes to my mind and, as youguys heard before, you know, I
grew up in Michigan, in theDetroit area, so a lot of the
things that I talk about have todo with the auto industry.
They just do, and Lee Iacocca,who's always kind of given the
(08:00):
credit for rebuilding ChryslerCorporation when it went down in
the 80s.
An often not known fact aboutLee Iacocca is that he was also
on the original design team forthe Ford.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Mustang, I was wondering if he was going to
bring that up.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
One of the best things that ever happened to the
auto industry ever, I mean itstill to this day is like the
initial model that sold the mostthan any other additional model
since then.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Totally changed the car world.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
It did and you look at it and you can.
John, you started to talk aboutthose things, about leadership
and the skills that it takes notjust to be a leader but to
really lead people in a commondirection for a common goal.
I mean, that's where it's at,yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
As I hear you guys talking, a couple things stand
out to me.
I think there are leaders thatare like positionally situated,
and then there are yourpractical leaders.
So I think it works both ways.
Not all people who are in aleadership position are made to
(09:05):
lead, or even know how to lead,or maybe are competent lead yeah
but then down on the practicalpiece.
You have people who are, whopractically lead, just because
it's a natural gift yeah andthey can use that gift either
for the good or for the negative, right, right?
So I mean, some think of alcapone.
(09:26):
Al capone was a leaker leader,right?
Um and uh, he used that giftnegatively, yeah, but he was a
leader and there are things that, oh, without a doubt, don't get
me started on the mafia.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
You know I love that stuff, and and you're, but
you're right, though, is that it?
It's one of those things whereyou know, one of the leadership
ideas that I've always used isyou.
You hire your weakness because,if I, if I know that I have a
weakness of leadership let's sayit's communication I would love
(10:00):
to hire somebody on my teamthat's strong in that oh sure,
because you, you know I canstill work on that weakness of
mine, but I know that it is.
And if I hire somebody that'sthere, that's building a team
that's building leadership,that's building a team that's
going to move forward toward acommon goal, whatever that is,
yeah, I think also what.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
what you need to be as a leader is somebody who
makes other people better andtowards that common goal, and
you help to create the peoplethat you need.
You hire the people that youneed, but you also make those
(10:38):
people better.
I mean, Delve into that alittle more.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
John about better, I don't know Tom.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Brady, where did he go to college?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Michigan.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Okay, so the man actually was not much in college
, was he?
He was, he was a backup and andhe came to the NFL and, you
know, by circumstance, became astarting quarterback.
And every time I I honestly Ido not like the new england
(11:10):
patriots, but I like tom brady,yeah, and the man just made
everybody around him better andhis goal, I think, was to win
super bowls yeah, yeah and hedid with two different teams and
it was because every time thosereceivers turned over or the
(11:32):
running back turned over or histeam turned over, he was there
and he was leading them in acertain way.
And I think that's whatleadership is is making those
people better so you can get tothat common goal.
And you have to watch out ortalk to the people who are the
(11:54):
informal leaders.
I'll call them the ones thathave those leadership qualities
that do lead in yourorganization, and you have to
help them to understand theirpurpose and the purpose of our
organization.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, and I think you bring up.
In bringing up Tom Brady,there's an important aspect
about him he always competed forthe position of quarterback.
Even when he was head coach ofMichigan, Lloyd Carr, I think it
was his senior year Tom Bradyhad compete for the position of
(12:33):
quarterback and they went backand forth for quite a while and
then he got into the NFL,competed against Drew Bledsoe,
you know, with the New EnglandPatriots.
But all that competition itmade him competent and he became
the best in his craft becausehe honed that skill over and
over, and over and over.
(12:53):
And so there's a level ofleadership where you have to be
competent in order to lead inthe area that you're in your
area of expertise.
But he couldn't have been alineman, he couldn't have been a
running back.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, this is true.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You know he didn't have that skill so he had to go
out and make sure he had thatskill right.
But the other side, I think, ofcompetence that I always like
to talk about is character.
You can have all kinds ofcompetence, and Simon Sinek
talks about this quite a bit,that you can have all kinds of
competence.
But competence, unhinged, kindof just makes somebody a jerk.
(13:30):
They make somebody like thestar, without knowing how to
treat others, and so thecharacter piece of it I think is
an important piece whenever youtalk about leadership as well.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, and I think what happens when you have the
competence without the character?
Sometimes you lead in such away that when you leave that
organization, the organization,falls apart because you are
leading in such a way that ithelps everybody get there, but
(14:06):
you're the glue that holdseverything together.
What you have to do is helpeverybody else around you be
better yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I think I was looking at an article my wife actually
sent it to me and it was talkingabout companies firing Gen Z
employees, which we could go waydown the list on that one, but
they were talking about the GenZ people and one of the things
was when, john, you hit it onthe head there where you said
that one of the things of beinga leader is getting people to be
(14:42):
better at what they do or howthey act or whatever that would
happen to be, and getting thembetter as leaders.
These business owners aretrying to teach and it cracks me
up to teach.
You'd figure that collegestudents coming out of school
now would know this because ofthe times.
But these employers and evenMichigan State University which
(15:04):
I don't talk about MichiganState very often, but they have
had to now teach students how tohandle a networking
conversation.
Oh wow, like they have to go inand they have now teach students
how to handle a networkingconversation oh wow, Like they
have to go in and they have toteach them how to look for signs
that the other party isstarting to get bored and that
it's time to move on.
But these are skills thatthey're coming out of college
and they don't have.
So when we talk about, you know, being a leader, like you said,
(15:28):
John, you've got to meet thoseguys wherever they're at, and
you've got to somehowfundamentally figure out you
know where are we and where wewant to go, and what's that road
look like between those twothings and how to get them
better, and I think that summedit up great.
I mean, john, I think that wasright.
There is that that leader hasto look and they have to be able
(15:49):
to see.
That too.
That's a skill as well, just byitself is to be able to look
and see.
Yeah, we know we're the endresult like we think we want to
be, but to really be able toagain, here's the word listen,
hear people, see where they'reat, figure it out, and sometimes
we'd like to make sure we getthat all done during a hiring
process or something else.
But we realize that doesn'talways happen.
(16:10):
It doesn't always happen thatway?
Sometimes it's a dog and ponyshow and you fall into it and
you've got a person who, youknow what, isn't as close to the
goal as you thought they were.
Right.
But our job as leaders or youknow, to show those leadership
skills is to see where they'reat and to try to help them get
there, because that's the job,that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, and what it is.
Yeah, and I, I think sometimeswhen um, they I can't remember
who it is that gave the um theexample or you might know, john,
because we've talked about itbefore.
But, uh, you got to know wherethe bus is going and then get
the right people, or get tomaybe get the wrong people off
the bus, get the right people onthe bus and then get those
(16:47):
right people in the right seatson the bus, yeah yeah and um, I
think it, you know I've been ina bus with the wrong driver a
few times.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, just saying, well, you know you do work with
sports, so yeah, it has.
That's the way it goessometimes they don't know where
they're going, do they?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I mean some of those, yeah, literally, um, I think,
when we talk about those skills,I mean I think the skills range
from so many different things,but some of the ones that I
really you know, look at and try.
You know, in our intro and inour North Stars we've talked
about this, how this podcast forus.
We want to get better at whatwe do as well.
(17:26):
I mean, this is where we hitideas off of each other and
learn it, and one of the thingsthat I look at as aspiring to be
a great leader and theseleadership skills.
I mean we brought up honesty,we brought up integrity,
basically, but being able todelegate is a gigantic one.
Oh yeah.
You know, being a leader isn'tjust about controlling every
(17:48):
single little thing that it was.
I mean you can't do that.
And if you think you can,you're going to fail, You're
going to crash and burn.
You can't do it.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Or your organization is going to fall apart when you
leave.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, that too.
It's that North Star that wetalked about in the first
episode, where I said you reallycan only work with what you
really have control over and youhave to be able to relinquish
some of that control and thatdelegation to others for some of
those things, because as aleader you're not going to be
able to do it all.
(18:20):
You're not going to be able to.
We might want to.
Some people think you know, arethere overachievers or they're
going to do this, but basicallywhat I think they would do is
burn out in a hurry, and we seethat a lot.
I mean, you see that withcoaches, you see that with
bosses, you see that with CEOs,you see that with a lot of
people, right?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, principals too, I mean it happens, hey, and you
bring up a good point, seeingwhere they are when we are
assessing them and saying, hey,this person could be a leader in
my organization and I'm gonnagive them a little bit more
(19:00):
responsibility to help them getto that purpose that they have
and help them understand whothey are in our organization and
help our organization.
By the way, it's Jim Collins,with Good to Great.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Oh, is he the one who the bus example?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Which is a really good book.
Good to Great.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I'd like to hear a little bit more about
this delegation piece becausefor me, I think over the the
years that's probably been thehardest thing to do and, as I
reflect just on that, the reasonI most likely don't delegate
and you guys chime in on this isthat I don't think anybody can
(19:47):
do it as good as I can you knowwhat, and it's funny, and I knew
where you were going as soon asI saw the look on your face,
chuck, and I could tell and thisis how well we know each other
folks is is this is somethingthat, um, I'm not proud of it or
anything but, uh, as a parent,um, I did this too much, too
many times where I didn't havemy kids do something like a
(20:10):
chore or whatever it was,because I'm like I'm gonna
have to redo it.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I'm gonna have to do it over yep, because they're not
gonna do it up to my you know,which at the time seemed like a
like a time-saving kind of thing, but it really wasn't.
It was more of a proud pridething and and it's like you know
what I could teach them and gostep by step with them and tell
them what that looks like, whatit feels like.
You know all these things and Ipassed up on some of those
(20:34):
opportunities and I think thatit's real that you say that as a
leader, because it's real, andthink of it this way In recent
events for those of you that aresports fans the Detroit Lions
just had one of their bestseasons ever.
(20:55):
Right, I mean great season Headcoach.
You know Campbell, he's great,you know, but what did he do?
He built a coaching staff ofleaders and his offensive
coordinator and his defensivecoordinator both got head
coaching jobs.
Now that's a feather in yourhat.
Now you hate to lose thosepeople, but that's what you're
(21:16):
trying to do is you're trying tobuild a team where people are
going to advance right.
I mean you're not just helpingwhatever your group or your job
or your corporation or whateverthat is, it's not just them.
You're helping those peopleBecause, like you said, john,
(21:38):
some of those people don'tnecessarily always know that
they have leadership qualities.
Sometimes they do, sometimesthey think they do, when they
don't.
But, they also the other timesjust maybe don't have a high
enough self-esteem or they don'tthink that they could do
something like that.
But if we listen hard enoughand we look at those little
intangibles, whatever that is,and I just think that that
delegation piece is one of theways that you kind of strain
(22:02):
through and figure out, you givethese people a little job here,
a little more responsibility,whatever that is, and you coach
them through it and you try toget them through it and you're
going to be able to tell in ahurry if they can or they can't.
Right, you know.
And I think that, besides thatpart, that delegation piece is
gigantic because everybody on ateam or a group has to do their
(22:25):
part to reach that common goal.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So does that mean that if you're delegating to
somebody that, honestly, theymay not do it as good as you,
you may be, maybe you have 15,20 more years experience or
whatever.
Maybe you're skilled better.
Whatever, you're delegating itto somebody who may not be as
good as you, does that mean thatyou have to be okay with, like,
not it being excellent?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
No, no, I think that we've gone through that in
education, where it's GRR right,gradual Release of
Responsibility.
This is something that we dowith students, but I think that
you do it with a leadershipgroup as well.
And just like I was talkingabout with being a parent is
that if I'm delegating somethingto you and I feel in my heart
that I'm going to be better atit than you are, that's okay.
(23:12):
But I want to teach you how atleast I think as the leader, it
should be done.
Now, on the flip side of that,you might have some ideas that I
didn't know about.
So I have to be open at thesame time.
But that delegation piece, Ithink, builds trust open at the
(23:32):
same time.
But that delegation piece, Ithink, builds trust with the
other person.
that, hey he's really lookingout for me or he's got some
faith in me and hopefully thathelps them.
Yeah, but it's hard to let thatrain go and to say hey, but at
the same time maybe the first,however long it is, month or two
or whatever it is it's going totake a lot of follow-up with
you with them, to help them getto the point where they're at
(23:56):
least competent or better.
You know what I mean, Yep yep,yep, which sounds really bad,
but I don't know another way toput it.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
And delegation means that I am letting that person do
what they need to do.
What I'm doing as a leader, asa builder, is being out in front
of those people as a leader andI'm letting them learn how to
(24:29):
be that leader, them learn howto be that leader.
What I'm trying to do,ultimately fortunate or
unfortunate, I don't know which,but what I'm trying to do is
work myself as out of a job.
I'm trying to help those peoplebe a leader so that when I'm
gone, when'm done, those peoplecan take over Right, where
(24:53):
you're left off.
And we see that in.
You know, we work in a highschool.
We said that we work with kidsthat are anywhere from 14 to 18,
19 years old and we're tryingto help them find their purpose,
be leaders.
And sometimes that's reallyhard to let them and watch them
(25:20):
to maybe stumble right, not fail.
But stumble.
And it's up to us to help pickthem up and get them on the
right track, find their purposeand help them to be that leader
that they can be.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I think the other part of it.
There's one other small partthat I just wanted to say is
that if we're in a position ofleadership whatever that
position is and you are bringingpeople onto your team whether
that means hiring them orbringing them into your garage
or whatever it is, you know whatI mean.
Whatever that group is, youkind of have to screen them a
(26:04):
little bit.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh sure.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Like, if I know that, chuck, I'm bringing you onto my
team and your strength iscommunication, but I give you, I
delegate to you, a bunch ofstuff about operations.
That's not setting you up forsuccess either.
So again and I know we'vecircled back to it a hundred
(26:26):
times, it seems already and it'sonly episode two, but it's that
listening piece and you've gotto listen to people and really
delve into what not only youthink their strengths are, but
what they think they are.
And that's hard.
It's a hard thing.
Delegation is not easy.
That's why I put it on there,because I think it spurns a lot
of great conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It does, and I think part of the process that may
help, that is, the good booksays that there's wisdom in a
multitude of counsel, right?
So if you're considering anindividual, then bring more
people around.
And we've all made our share ofmistakes of bringing people
onto a team that maybe wethought was a good fit, but
(27:07):
somebody else was like ah, Idon't know about this one, chuck
, you know.
Or I don't know about this one,john.
Um, there's a another goodquote I heard.
It kind of takes theconversation a little bit of a
different direction, but it saysbe careful who you let on your
ship, because some people mightsink the whole ship just because
they can't be the captain, youknow.
But you know, once you havethat organization and you are
(27:30):
kind of building thatorganization, yeah, you got to
be careful, you got to vetpeople, maybe a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So well, I've had those conversations before about
, you know, if I have somebodysitting in front of me who, at
the end of an interview or evenin the middle of it, and I think
, man, this person is turnkey,they could take my job today.
I have to be honest with myselfand kind of talk to this person
, be like, hey, you know whatyou're a, this person is turnkey
(27:56):
, they could take my job today.
I have to be honest with myselfand kind of talk to this person
and be like, hey, you know what, you're a little overqualified
for this job, like you've donethis, this, this.
You know, you might want to lookat a little bit bigger of his
role, unless they have aspecific reason for wanting that
role, whatever it is.
But I think that we need to behonest with ourselves and be
like know, there's some peoplethat, like you said, maybe they
in their interview you'restealing interviews, you know
stealing ideas from them becausethey're giving you stuff and
(28:17):
they're like wow, I neverthought of that that's a great
idea, you know that's.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's another quality of leadership, too is
being honest with people andsaying here's what I see in you,
or or here's what I don't seein you, and making sure that
you're honest.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
And I think we can look at.
There's so many things withleadership and this topic is
probably going to go over intoour next episode.
I mean there's things that arealways going to be interlaced
with it next episode.
I mean there's things that arealways going to be interlaced
with it.
But I think that you know, whenwe talk about, you know society
and people and all the thingsthat we do in our world but that
(29:00):
you guys are going to beletting us know about.
You know, this is so importantbecause we see leaders and I
know sometimes and I'm justgoing to say it that I think
that we see leaders sometimesthat we don't want to admit that
they're leaders because wedon't like the direction that
they go.
Sure, but you know what?
They're still leaders.
Okay, now what direction theygo, that's a whole different
(29:21):
discussion.
But there's always been leadersin history, forever.
Right, yeah, that people don'talways agree with Right, and
that's okay.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But there are certain qualitiesthat leaders true leaders and
successful leaders have, andthese are just, we've just
scratched the surface.
I mean, we haven't even gonethat deep yet.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
We have, you know yeah, so let's, um, let's, maybe
just can we just go around thetable and talk about, like, who
is a leader, whether it'ssomebody that led us, or maybe
it's somebody that look, youknow from a distance that we've
admired, that we've maybe stolena few things from?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
boy, that's something to think about you're still
thinking I am, so go ahead I can.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I can tell you right now, without without even
thinking too hard about it, myhigh school football coach 100%
best probably man that I've evermet in my life as far as the
things that he did in his ownlife with raising kids in a
terrible neighborhood in Detroit, sending them all through a
Lutheran high school, teachingin that high school, his wife
(30:29):
working in the cafeteria andjust being the best mentor to
young men and having that as thebasis of his coaching style.
Whether he was on the field, hewas also the wrestling coach.
He was also a PE teacher.
This is the guy that I had todo square dancing with in PE
(30:50):
class.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You square danced with him.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I did because there was more guys than there were
girls, and I was the tallest onein line so I had to and he came
up to me and you're leading.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Bow to your partner.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And it was one of those things where he was always
just a beacon of light in mylife.
He was always somebody that youcould look up to, somebody that
you could.
You never had to worry aboutasking him a question.
I mean, obviously he was a verystrong coach, he was a very
dedicated coach, he was a greatcoach.
He's in the Michigan HighSchool Football Coaches Hall of
(31:28):
Fame.
Oh, wow.
High School Football CoachesHall of Fame, oh wow.
And he just went over the topwith making young men out of
young boys, if you want to sayyeah, that's good.
And he was so good.
He was just and it was.
Obviously it was a Lutheranhigh school, so there was a lot
of things about our faith andthings that were included in
(31:48):
everything that we did.
And, as I remember, as I wentto college which was the same
college that one of his sonswent to he I was worried.
It was the first game I wasgoing to start as a freshman.
I kind of jumped in there atthe end and I was in the locker
room before the game and heshowed up and I had my head down
, I was kind of trying to psychmyself out and I feel this hand
(32:09):
on my shoulder and it was him.
He came to see the game becausehis son was also playing.
He was a couple years olderthan me, but just that, I was
fine.
All that anxiety, everythingthat I had was gone because I
knew he was there.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Great man, just a great man.
So let me ask Luke, how manygraduated in your class in high
school?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I think it was less than 100.
I want to say it was like 85 or87, something like that.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So I grew up in a small town as well.
I can't really put my finger onexactly one person, but my high
school teachers wereinspirational and leaders to me
who again helped young peoplegrow into adulthood and get to
(32:57):
where they needed to be.
Probably one of the reasons Ibecame a teacher was those
teachers that I had, and I thinkthat we all can probably look
at somebody who made adifference in our lives.
That might have been either ateacher or maybe a pastor or
(33:19):
somebody in our past thatexemplified that type of
leadership that we want to haveor to be.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, it probably wasn't a fair question because I
couldn't think of just one.
I break it up into likedifferent genres, right.
So when I think of somebody whotaught me how to be a good
family man, I think of KentWingate from Patterson Park
Church in Beaver Creek, ohio.
Just an amazing dude man.
Showed me what it looked liketo love your wife and love your
(33:50):
kids.
When I think about a goodpastor, I think a guy by the
name of Dr John Marshall fromSpringfield Missouri.
Just an incredible man, lovedJesus, just a great man to kind
of pattern your life after.
And then when I think of justgeneral leadership, guys who
know how to replicate leadersthemselves, because they I don't
(34:14):
know, I don't know if it's asystem, I'm not sure, but the
again it's pastors.
You guys know me, but it's thepastors of the City Light family
.
You know guys like you knowGavin Johnson, chris Horuska,
doug Stevens, eric Wiggum, someof those guys who really invest
and replicate other leaders andas it turns out, they're doing
(34:39):
some really good things.
So I can't really break it upinto one.
You know, my football coach isa good dude.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I could have named a bunch I'm sure you could have.
We could go on an episode aboutthis.
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Well, guys, that was a great, great discussion.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
You want me to do a quote oh yeah, so we end with a
quote there I think, um, one ofthe ones that, um, I looked at
and when I was talking aboutleadership and obviously we've,
we've hit on this subject, wehit on it a lot in the first
episode.
Really, you know, as I listenedto the first episode, we really
did I mean listened to thefirst episode, we really did.
I mean the leadership piecekind of came out there, which
(35:16):
was good, because I like theidea that we spring ideas that
then go into the next episode,because I think it's a natural
progression to go, but, john FKennedy, leadership and learning
are indispensable to each other.
John F Kennedy, leadership andlearning are indispensable to
each other.
And I think that the minutethat a leader thinks that they
know everything and they're notgoing to be a leader anymore
(35:38):
Right, because they're stagnant,they're just going to stay.
And we've all seen those people, whether we knew them
personally or not, but we've allseen those people, whether it
was in history, whether it'ssomething that we've experienced
in our lives, you know, in thehalf century that we've been on
the face of this earth, Right.
I mean, I think that that's abig one, and I think that if we
ever stop learning, or wantingto learn, even for that matter,
(36:00):
then you know, what we've kindof stagnated Learning and
leading go together.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
That's great.
Hang your boots up.
Love it Awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
We've probably come time to finish up.
Well, wait, we should probablylike you know what's coming out.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
You know soon here is the Super Bowl.
I mean that's the.
Chefs and the Eagles right.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yep Chiefs and the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
You know, are you a Chiefs fan?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
No, not really Good.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
I know John's not.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I'm more of a Pittsburgh Steeler fan.
Yeah, you know, that's's okay,I'm fine, I was rooting for
Detroit.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
I did laugh because I saw a meme yesterday, I think
it was, which was they havethose maps that says who's
rooting for who across thecountry.
So they had the Kansas Citylogo right over Kansas City and
they had the Philadelphia logoover Philadelphia and the rest
of the country was gray and thegray color was hoping for a
(36:53):
meteor shower.
It was great.
I thought it was great becauseI don't know that.
I know Kansas City fans are andPhilly is too.
I guess just for giggles, I'dlike to see the Eagles win, just
because.
I don't really have a horse inthe race, so I don't say too
much.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I kind of want to see Patrick Mahomes do something
nobody else has ever done.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
You know I always root for the AFC, so oh, I'm
rooting for Kansas.
It's all right.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
It's okay.
Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
All right, guys.
Well, hey, just a quick thing.
If you like what you heardtoday, or if you like what you
heard in our first episode, besure to go to our brand new
Facebook page, half CenturyHangout.
You can find it on Facebook.
We're also on Instagram,twitter and TikTok and, if you
would, if you enjoyed what youheard today, go ahead and send
(37:43):
us a message via text.
It's on all the differentplatforms that you're able to
listen to.
Shoot us an email, like andsubscribe guys.
Email, like and subscribe guys.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
so appreciate you guys.
Thanks for hanging out, thankyou.
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