May 14, 2025 • 33 mins
The line between ethics and morals seems increasingly blurred in our rapidly evolving world. What drives our moral compass when objective truth feels negotiable? The Half Century Hangout crew tackles these profound questions with candor and curiosity.
We begin by establishing a crucial distinction—ethics generally represent externally defined standards governing professions and organizations, while morals emerge from within as personal principles guiding individual conduct. This difference becomes particularly significant when examining the perception of "moral decline" that seems to plague every generation's view of the next.
Has society truly experienced moral deterioration, or are we simply viewing the world through a different lens than our predecessors? We explore how the shift from black-and-white thinking to acknowledging life's gray areas might be mistaken for declining values. The evolution of media offers a fascinating case study—from Walter Cronkite's factual reporting to today's opinion-driven news landscape that monetizes information and polarizes audiences.
Family structures have transformed dramatically, potentially altering how moral values transfer between generations. With greater physical and emotional distance between grandparents, parents, and children, traditional channels for moral instruction have fundamentally changed. Meanwhile, workplaces now accommodate up to four generations simultaneously, each bringing different ethical expectations about everything from punctuality to communication.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is our examination of "moral facades"—how selective memory paints certain eras as morally superior while conveniently forgetting their significant failings. The conversation culminates in a powerful reminder that clearly defining your moral principles prevents creating convenient "trap doors" to escape accountability when faced with difficult choices.
Like us on your favorite podcast app and join our next conversation as we continue exploring life's meaningful questions with humor, wisdom, and genuine curiosity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chuck (00:00):
Welcome back to the Half Century Hangout.
So what's been going on iny'all's world?
John (00:07):
Just celebrated Mother's Day.
Chuck (00:09):
Yeah.
John (00:10):
It was a great, great day to celebrate mothers.
Chuck (00:15):
How did you and Kylie celebrate, lynn?
John (00:18):
We celebrated by making supper for Lynn Nice.
Chuck (00:25):
Yeah, it was good.
John (00:26):
It was a good supper.
Had steaks and pasta.
High roller over there, Luke,that gated community he lives in
.
It was part of a quarter of acow.
I think you got half of onedidn't you?
Chuck (00:41):
Yeah, I did.
Yeah, we had a good time too.
We had the kids over Most ofthe kids.
My daughter was unable to makeit.
John (00:49):
How was Becky over Mother's?
Luke (00:51):
Day.
It was good.
The kids came and took care ofthings.
I said my kids are old enoughand you know what?
We decided it was time for themto step up.
John (00:58):
So they did.
Luke (00:58):
Did they make you?
John (00:59):
breakfast.
Luke (01:05):
No, I still made breakfast .
I made Becky and I breakfast,which was good they don't come
over that early so we did thatand then just kind of hung
around.
Really, the other thing that Ihave to add with all this is
that the score is one to nothing.
What?
John (01:18):
are you keeping score of?
Are you talking about a soccergame?
Luke (01:23):
Pope's from Chicago and Pope's from Green Bay.
One to nothing.
Baby Go Bears.
Chuck (01:28):
Duh Bears.
So one of the coolest thingsthat I.
After they announced Pope LeoXIV, they had a picture of him
when he was Archbishop, I guess,in Chicago.
John (01:46):
They had a picture of him at a Cubs game oh, that's cool,
it was a Sox game.
I thought it was a Cubs gamehe's not a Cubs fan the Cubs
claimed him, they claimed himfirst, but he's not he's
probably been to one but it wasa Sox game he was at the World
Series in 05 when they won so doyou know what his first
profession was, before he becameeven a priest?
(02:08):
He was a teacher.
Luke (02:10):
He was a math teacher.
He was a math teacher.
John (02:13):
And then going to law school and he decided to become
a priest.
Chuck (02:18):
I saw an interview where they interviewed his brother.
John (02:20):
Yeah, brother was a Catholic school principal, huh.
Chuck (02:28):
Retired.
Luke (02:28):
I did hear that he made one of his first large decisions
as Pope and he said that it'scalled soccer now, not football,
not football.
John (02:41):
I don't think that has anything to do with the faith.
I'm pretty sure he probablydidn't do that.
Luke (02:46):
They had it on Sunday morning the other day where he
said his brother was trying tocall and he finally picked up
the phone.
He's like, why don't you everanswer your phone?
That's his brother.
It's hilarious, it's greatstuff, it's super cool.
I think the one thing that wasneat that I was talking with my
wife about was that I thinksometimes here we always think
that we're ahead of the game inAmerica.
(03:08):
We're the best whatever, for thefirst time ever, we are having
the discussions about one of ourresidents, one of our citizens,
being the Pope.
All these other countries havehad this already.
We think it's kind of cool.
John (03:22):
Oh, he's from.
Luke (03:22):
Chicago, we're the last ones.
Chuck (03:28):
Even if you're not catholic, you're still involved
in the conversation hilarious.
It's kind of fun.
Good stuff though it is, it isgood.
Yeah, well, guys, I wanted tochat about something today that
I think is extremely importantand, uh, that's kind of a big
subject, but it's ethics, and Ithink, before we even jump into
this subject, that we got to becareful of on the front end is
that we don't become like holierthan thou or self-righteous,
(03:51):
because it's easy to sit up ontop of a mountain and point out
the flaws of everyone else, butI just think it's a discussion
worth having.
Luke (03:58):
I'd like to start out with a question between you guys and
you answer it for me, becausewhen we first talked about it, I
think this is a very importantpiece of what it is is what is
the difference between moralsand ethics?
Okay, because a lot of timesthose terms are intertwined and
(04:20):
used together.
But, john, what do you think,what would you say are the
difference between morals andethics?
John (04:27):
Well, I think ethics are usually externally defined
standards, and morals are kindof those personal principles we
live by, those written on ourhearts, morals, more than ethics
(04:48):
, which are defined for us.
What would you say, chuck?
Chuck (04:53):
Sort of similar to that, but maybe with a little nuance
to it.
I think ethics is a system thatyou enter into, like there's an
ethical system, like you know.
I don't know if, did you takeethics in college?
I took ethics in college and Ididn't know, but I'm still.
(05:13):
I still don't know.
I didn't really do the researchon it, but it is ethics, a part
of the philosophical school,John.
John (05:21):
According to some, ethics is is a part of philosophy yeah
philosophy that we kind of liveby.
Chuck (05:29):
So I think ethics is kind of this overarching thing I
don't even know really whatword to give to it but then
morals hold up ethics, so it'slike it the more morality would
be a pillar that holds up ethics.
I don't know if that's theright way to look at it, but
that's kind of the way I'vealways thought of it.
Luke (05:47):
Well, I mean, that's fine, it's what you think.
That's why I asked the questionbecause I think everybody looks
at it a little different.
I've really always looked at itlike ethics are extrinsic and
morals are intrinsic, so themorals come from within and the
ethics are placed there bysomething or someone or whatever
(06:08):
it would be.
That's kind of the way that I'vealways looked at it.
I don't necessarily disagreewith the fact that you said that
your morals may uphold theethics that you live by, but I
think that sometimes we mightget stuck somewhere.
I mean not me, it's nevernecessarily happened to me but
(06:29):
if you joined or you had acareer path that somehow your
morals didn't line up with theethics of that organization
might be a little problem.
John (06:42):
Well, and we talked about values.
I think values are a part ofthat conversation too.
What?
What are our values?
How do they match what thecompany's values are?
So, and how does thatintertwine with the ethical
decisions that we make as we goalong?
Chuck (07:02):
So I think there's like a system of ethics with each
different little thing.
So like I think the medicalfield has a system of ethics,
like the Hippocratic oath right,I think education has a system
of ethics business ethics,medical ethics, correct
Educational ethics, yeah.
Luke (07:21):
But I think, within those there, within those, you still
have honesty, sure you know so,as you look at and as you
introduced it, as we're going totalk about morals, how do you
see morals playing out in thisenvironment that we talk about?
Where do morals come in?
Where do you see it, yeah,being important?
(07:42):
Where do you see it having themost impact?
What do you see it beingimportant?
Where do you see it having themost impact?
What do you see with that?
Chuck (07:46):
So I think there's this perception that the ethics of a
country, or the ethics of a cityor whatever, has been declining
over the course of time.
Luke (08:00):
The ethics are or the morals are.
John (08:14):
Well, I thought we were talking about ethics.
I think morals are harder todefine for me.
Luke (08:17):
Well, I think, because they're different, right, right,
and so we might say the moralsare declining, like if there's a
moral decline a lot of peoplewould say it that way, because,
at least the way that I look it,it's hard for me to say that
there's an ethical decline,because the ethics aren't
derived from individuals,they're derived from some group
(08:39):
whatever that is, they'redefined by someone else.
Now you might say, like yousaid, if there's a moral decline
, like we've heard that word,We've heard that term.
I mean my dad used to say that,right, like there's a moral
decline.
Do I think that there's a moraldecline?
I think I would probably throwthe question back and say how
(09:00):
would you even measure that?
How would you look at it anddetermine if you think there is
a moral decline?
How would you know?
What would, what would yourindicators be that there is a
moral decline?
Chuck (09:09):
So maybe that's the question is do you guys think
there has been a moral declinein the last 20 to 40 years?
John (09:19):
Go ahead.
I think that's where we need tobe careful, because that's a
judgment, that's a judgment call, and I think that each
generation may think thatthere's a moral decline, maybe
because it's different than whatthey were taught or grew up or
(09:43):
what the morals were at the timethat that they were in the the
world's different.
Chuck (09:50):
Let me push back on that just a little bit.
I think it's okay to make ajudgment call, Okay, I think we
can judge whether something ismoral or not moral based upon an
objective truth.
But I don't.
I think where we kind of getthings a little bit hairy is
when we start condemning.
John (10:10):
A generation or people.
Correct, okay.
Luke (10:13):
I think that the word that I struggle at and I realize
it's a semantic kind of debate,it kind of lends itself to that
is that if you're talking abouta moral decline, does that mean
there's less morals?
Morals that are in place don'tlive up to what we think they
(10:33):
should be in, what they mean orwhat the meat of them is.
Does that make sense?
Chuck (10:40):
Yeah, I think it's probably both.
Luke (10:45):
Is the bar lower, or is everybody going under the bar?
Because I think that's wherethe judgment piece that I would
struggle with comes with alittle bit is that let's just
say that you have this moral.
Whatever it is, let's just saythat it's trustworthiness.
Let's just say something likethat, okay, and I believe that
it's also a moral that I wouldhave.
But you know, there's peoplethat would say, well,
(11:08):
trustworthiness means you'retelling the truth, you're doing
these things right, you're.
You're honest, you're open,you're.
You're constantly doing tellingpeople the right things, the
real things.
You're telling the truth,you're doing these things right,
you're honest, you'reconstantly telling people the
right things, the real things.
You're not, you know whatever.
Do the people that say oh well,you know what?
I didn't lie to you, I justdidn't tell you that part Like a
lie of omission, right, as we?
Chuck (11:28):
call that.
Luke (11:29):
Is that a lessening of that moral compass?
Is that a lowering of the bar?
Or is it the fact that maybeyou have three morals, where you
have trustworthiness, somethingelse and something else, and I
only have two?
Is that a moral decline?
You know what I'm saying?
That's two different things tome.
Chuck (11:45):
Yeah, I think I know what you're trying to toss out
there.
John (11:50):
Why don't you explain that ?
What do you think he means for?
Chuck (11:53):
me?
Yeah.
So what I think he means is isare there fewer, fewer morals
that people are living by, orare there this set of morals
that have been set up by thesubjective truth and people are
failing to reach that?
Is that kind of the what you'resaying truth and people are
(12:15):
failing to reach.
Luke (12:15):
That Is that kind of the what you're saying.
It's two things.
It's either it's a level of thenumber of morals you would have
or that you uphold, or is themeat of that moral being
degraded somehow to the pointnow that it doesn't mean what it
meant 30 years ago?
That's kind of what I wouldlean more toward a little bit,
just personally.
And, john, I think you alludedto it is that over the years,
(12:37):
over generations, something 50years ago probably meant
something different than it doesnow.
I mean, look at, let's justtake an example of the news.
Okay, 50 years ago peoplewalter concrete cronkite and
(12:58):
believe everything that he said,because you know what it was
factual.
It was boom, boom, boom.
That was it.
He had a reputation yeah that'swhat everybody do
Chuck (13:07):
you know, when that changed when did it change, john
John?
John (13:10):
1979.
I just heard a story on this.
It was Simon Sinek was talkingon his podcast and he said in
1979, I think it was DavidKoppel was covering the
Iran-Austria crisis and theyfigured out that, wow, if you
(13:35):
had a good story time becausethey were reporting the news.
Well, now the news channelsstarted yeah, exactly, they
(14:07):
started to monetize it.
So now what you see is one sideor the other, right.
Luke (14:13):
So now what you see is one side or the other right.
So if I'm looking at that froma moral compass, if I look at it
and I say back, then people puta lot of weight into what they
believe to be the absolute truth.
All right, now I think thatpeople don't necessarily put
that much weight into it becausethey can look at this thing,
they can look at this it,because they can look at this
(14:34):
thing, they can look at thisthing, they can look at this
thing, they can look at thisthing and they can form their
own kind of thing, which mighthave its merits, which I think
is a different discussion, but Ithink that that lessens the
impact of what that moral thatpeople 50 years ago held.
That's just kind of the waythat I look at it.
Chuck (14:56):
Yeah, I think what you're, if I hear you're right
and I I've been using this wordobjective.
I think that there's this thingwhere people don't believe
there's an objective way to dothings anymore.
There's not an objective truthto live by.
There's all these little, youknow, subjective things that you
know.
Okay, if I don't like, I canlie about things if I want to,
(15:21):
because if this person disagreeswith me or condemns me or holds
me accountable for that lie,then I've always got this person
to uphold and encourage me.
So I think it can be a slipperyslope in that judgmental and
condemning type of thing thatyou're talking about, John.
John (15:40):
The world was somewhat more black and white and it's
become a lot more gray and youhave to learn how to discern
what the truth is, or what'sright and what's not, I mean
what's being reported.
Luke (15:57):
I think a lot of times people say you know how kids
hate it when we say back in theday, right, I think what we look
at at our age is that weseemingly at least for myself
look back and everything seemedmuch simpler, yeah, okay.
(16:18):
So when we look at thatsometimes I think that that is
what lends itself to thatconversation of the moral
decline, because we were able toidentify things back then, like
you said, john, more black andwhite, like we could put this
here and put this here.
Now it's more complex.
(16:41):
Our world is ever changing,which, again, this isn't a bad
thing.
It's just that it's adjustingwhat I think morals.
If people were looking at itwhere it's going, I think that
people our age generally wouldsay I know there's some research
about it, I know you probablyhave some numbers with it, but I
(17:01):
think that people our age wouldprobably say that there's a
moral decline just because ofthe look of it, just because
they see all this stuff going onthat never happened before,
just because they see all thisstuff going on that never,
happened before.
When was the first time that youever saw on a TV show a man and
a woman sleep in the same bed,whether they were married or not
(17:22):
?
It was the Brady.
Chuck (17:24):
Bunch.
Luke (17:25):
Everything else, lucy and Ricky Mary Tyler, all of them,
they were all separate.
It was the separate beds.
Yeah, they were always separatebeds.
Chuck (17:39):
It's so much different if you look at the moral side of
things and what people put upas their morals, would you say
that there are people livingtoday who have less morals, or
that they just aren't living upto the morals that have been
expected of them?
I mean, what's your thoughts onthat and how do you put meat to
those bones?
John (18:01):
The morals maybe are different.
I don't know if you could sayit's a decline or an increase,
or how do you measure thatdecline?
I think that's what Luke saidhow do we measure that decline?
And then we can say, okay, yeah, there was a decline, or no,
(18:26):
there's not a decline in in theway that we are treating each
other, or whatever I mean.
Is that how you're going todefine it, or is it defined by
whether you show up to work ontime?
Is it defined by how you makeyour money?
Is it defined by whethercompanies are socially
(18:50):
responsible or not.
Companies are sociallyresponsible or not.
Is it defined by how you arepreserving the natural resources
we have?
So how do we define that moraldecline?
Luke (19:10):
I think the one thing that we can look at is that morals
can vary from one person toanother.
Yeah, so when you ask thatquestion, are they getting less?
I think what the question thatI have behind that is is that,
as time goes, all right, so overthe last 50 years, as the times
(19:36):
have changed, should thatchange?
Or is it okay that the moral,the way that we view the actual
moral, has changed and adaptedwith the change in times?
Because I think that it's.
It's kind of like I could usean example of.
I'll just use an example of theBible.
(19:57):
Okay, when the Bible waswritten, it was in its first
version, right, it was here inthe languages that it was
written in, in Hebrew, and allthe things that it was written
in.
As time went and people you know, translated it, moved it into
their languages and, doing it,the stories changed a little bit
(20:18):
.
Sometimes the versions as theycame through, the story itself
really didn't change, but maybethe way that it was told.
They changed some words to makeit easier for people to
understand it as time went.
Sometimes, as a preacher, I'msure that you have to use a
story from the Bible in a wayand move it a little bit to help
(20:38):
people understand the conceptof it, and that's the key, I
think is what drives themorality of the Bible, is the
objective truth that's hiddenwithin the stories.
And I think that that's what I'mtrying to say is that the
morals, if you just use them,we'll use the same one we used
before, which is truth.
That would be a moral rightRight.
(20:59):
The idea of truth is the same,but the moral as somebody now
might view it might be a littledifferent than the way that they
viewed it 50 years ago.
Even though the center truth isstill there, it's still the
same thing.
I guess the question for mewould be is do people now
(21:20):
younger than us, one or twogenerations below us, do they
look at that absolute truth thesame way?
That's where I would say no.
Chuck (21:27):
That's where I would say no too.
Luke (21:28):
I would say that it takes a different look, because I
think that the focus has changedfrom kind of a you know where
morals used to be this realpositive, bring people together,
happiness, be kind to people,that kind of thing.
And I think that that haschanged a little bit to the
(21:51):
point that maybe it's not justour focus on those morals but
it's focusing on different ones,because the times have changed
so much.
I mean, do you really thinkthat the times have changed that
much?
Chuck (22:06):
No, I think that's you know I read an article before we
actually started this that youhave actual behavior based upon
perceived behavior, and theperception of decline was way
higher than what the actualdecline is according to a Gallup
(22:27):
poll that was released in 2020.
Luke (22:29):
But what's the decline that they're measuring?
Chuck (22:32):
Yeah, and it doesn't really get into a whole lot of
of that, but it was just sayingthe perception of decline of the
majority of the responders washigher than what the actual
behavior was.
Despite those perceptions, itseems to have remained stable
over time, as opposed to gettingworse and worse and worse and
(22:54):
worse and worse.
Luke (22:54):
And I would probably tend to agree with that, only because
I think that it's notnecessarily that it's declining.
It's the way that we're viewingit, because we're viewing it
through a different set of eyes,because the times have changed.
John (23:06):
Our lens is different.
Chuck (23:09):
Our perception is different.
I think that's it, and youbring up an interesting point,
though.
When you talk about youmentioned absolute truths Like
what is it that is drivingmorality among you, know us, or
among current generations,Because you brought up the Bible
?
There are truths that are foundin that Bible that I think
(23:34):
people have, you know, lived byand died for over the years.
But back in the 1800s, you know, there were people who had the
same color skin that I have,that were using the Bible to
justify their sins slavery, youknow.
Luke (23:51):
Yeah, I think one of the things for me that I look at as
to where, like you said, wheredo those absolute truths come
from, or where do your moralscome from.
I'm a pretty firm believer thatmany of those things are taught
to you from a very young age.
Taught to you from a very youngage from your family, from your
(24:14):
parents, from, yourgrandparents, from church,
whatever it is, but from a veryyoung age.
And I believe that over theyears, as time has gone, as we
know, there's been, you know, alot of research done on it, but
there has been a breakdown ofwhat the family may look like
(24:35):
compared to what it did 50 yearsago most of the time.
And so those breakdowns have, Ithink, personally affected the
way that the morals are beingtaught or handed down to people
that are younger than us,because it's not, the world's
not the same and the makeup ofthe families and the way that
(24:58):
things are is not the same.
There's great research done onhow different it is now with the
two-generation,three-generation interaction
among families, how it's muchless now than it used to be,
because a lot of times maybethere's distance between the
youngsters and the grandparentsor the grandparents aren't
(25:21):
involved in the lives as theywere when we were younger, or
those types of things where thathas changed that interaction,
where those values and wherethose things I said, values,
where those morals come from,because I think that's important
I think that it happens more.
I think that the family unit isa large portion of where at
(25:44):
least your initial morals comefrom and what your base is like,
what your base is, and then asyou get older, we all know you
know you kind of take your ownpath and you do your things, but
it's still there and then it'spassed on again from you onto
your kids, your grandkids, thosethings as you go.
John (26:00):
And we've.
We've talked about that and youtalked about generations not
being together.
We have so many generations inour workplace now up to four
generations in a workplace.
How does that affect, maybe,the ethics?
(26:21):
People of some generations maythink it's okay not to show up
to work on time.
I don't know.
People of some generations maythink you got to be there and
you got to punch in at the exacttime.
Chuck (26:37):
You're not 15 minutes early, you're late.
John (26:39):
If you're not 15 minutes early, you're late, and there
are some people and there aresome cultures too, because I've
worked with some of those.
Absolutely that are that are,and you know you're there 15
minutes early and you're waitingto punch in until that second
turns yeah rather than taking anextra 15 minutes to punch in
(27:02):
and I also.
Chuck (27:03):
I also think, before we kind of end this discussion, I
also think that there's a facadeof morals.
Like everybody back in the1950s thought that that was the
golden era, right, but there wasa lot of crap going on.
It wasn't the best for everyone100%, and I think that's
(27:27):
universal.
Luke (27:28):
I think it's universal through time.
It is now.
I mean, there's people now thatthink this is the best time of
anything, the glory age oftechnology, or whatever you want
to say, or the 80s or the 2000s.
John (27:40):
I mean, everything has its positives.
Luke (27:42):
Every generation, every decade, every century, whatever
you want to go by, everythinghas its positives, but
everything also has itsnegatives and a lot of times
that's human nature that weremember.
We want to remember the goodtimes, not as much the bad times
.
Chuck (27:58):
Well, my point in bringing that up is that you can
appear to be, you know thatperfect family.
Right, you got the house withthe white picket fence, you know
you pay your taxes on time, yougot the kids and grandkids, and
you know everything lookspicture perfect.
But behind that is, a isn't agreat picture could be just a
(28:24):
facade and I think sometimes ourculture gets tricked into
thinking that because there'sthis moralistic facade, that
exists.
John (28:32):
I think what you're talking about is we write our
own story and throughout life wehave to write our own story.
Sometimes those stories aren'tquite.
Maybe they're fish stories, Idon't know.
Have you ever told a fish story?
Does the fish get bigger whenyou catch it?
I'm not a fisherman.
Chuck (28:53):
So you're thinking that, behind some of these good old
stories that we've talked about,that the fish is a little bit
bigger than what it actually was?
John (29:00):
or or we are.
Luke (29:03):
We're omitting some of the things that we don't want
people to know, or maybe maybeeven forgetting some of those
things right, right, yeah, yeah,I think, I think that's the
other part of it is that, when Iwas mentioning that before, how
people look back on things andwe concentrate on the positives
(29:23):
at our age, I know for me forsure there's parts of it that
you forget.
But generally speaking, whatare the parts that we forget?
The negative, negative parts?
Chuck (29:32):
Yeah.
Luke (29:33):
Because it's easier or cleaner to forget the negative
parts than it is the positivepart.
Yeah, Because you know youdon't want to really remember
the negative if you don't haveto Well, it casts us in a
different light when we'retelling those stories, right
Well?
John (29:46):
100% and we might be wired that way.
Human beings might be wiredthat way.
Not sure, but I think we are.
Luke (30:00):
I do think the one part that I just want to throw in,
the last part that Johnmentioned and he said something
about the morals and how we actright, that back up what our
morals are right.
We talked about this withvalues a little bit.
I think that the gray aspect ofmorals, I think, can get you in
trouble, because if you'rereally not defining your morals,
(30:20):
I think that you're kind ofgiving yourself an out.
You know what I mean.
You're building yourself a trapdoor or an escape door.
That, oh well, you know, Ireally didn't mean that.
I meant this.
Chuck (30:31):
Yeah.
Luke (30:32):
You know you're really not being truthful with yourself.
Chuck (30:35):
So in your mind, if you can define and list out the
morals that you want to live by,whether they be few or many,
then it's, it's putting you,it's setting you up for more
success.
Luke (30:52):
Yeah, your morals tend not all the time, but tend to drive
you in a certain direction,toward what career you would
choose, Because you want toalign what you believe in with
an organization that has ethicslike this or whatever it is,
because that's a little bit of aproblem if your morals don't
line up with that.
(31:12):
Like you said, they're likepillars that are holding it up
right.
So if they're not lined up withthat, it could make things
difficult for all those that areyou know, that may listen to
the podcast, that are youngerand looking for careers.
I think it's an important thingfor you to do is to be able to
look at as a human being, as aperson, to be true to yourself
(31:33):
and your morals, to say what doyou guys do?
What's your moral compass,what's your ethical structure?
Chuck (31:39):
Right, yeah, I think that's a really good point to be
made.
Got a quote for us.
Luke (31:45):
When wealth is lost, nothing is lost.
When health is lost, somethingis lost.
When character is lost, all islost.
Chuck (31:54):
That's a doozy.
I'm a character, Danger Will.
Luke (31:57):
Robinson.
John (31:58):
Danger, yes, well, hey, thanks for hanging out with us
here at Half Century Hangout.
Be sure to like us on yourfavorite podcast app and we'll
see you next time.
Peace out the Bears.
Welcome back to the Half Century Hangout.
So what's been going on iny'all's world?
John (00:07):
Just celebrated Mother's Day.
Chuck (00:09):
Yeah.
John (00:10):
It was a great, great day to celebrate mothers.
Chuck (00:15):
How did you and Kylie celebrate, lynn?
John (00:18):
We celebrated by making supper for Lynn Nice.
Chuck (00:25):
Yeah, it was good.
John (00:26):
It was a good supper.
Had steaks and pasta.
High roller over there, Luke,that gated community he lives in
.
It was part of a quarter of acow.
I think you got half of onedidn't you?
Chuck (00:41):
Yeah, I did.
Yeah, we had a good time too.
We had the kids over Most ofthe kids.
My daughter was unable to makeit.
John (00:49):
How was Becky over Mother's?
Luke (00:51):
Day.
It was good.
The kids came and took care ofthings.
I said my kids are old enoughand you know what?
We decided it was time for themto step up.
John (00:58):
So they did.
Luke (00:58):
Did they make you?
John (00:59):
breakfast.
Luke (01:05):
No, I still made breakfast .
I made Becky and I breakfast,which was good they don't come
over that early so we did thatand then just kind of hung
around.
Really, the other thing that Ihave to add with all this is
that the score is one to nothing.
What?
John (01:18):
are you keeping score of?
Are you talking about a soccergame?
Luke (01:23):
Pope's from Chicago and Pope's from Green Bay.
One to nothing.
Baby Go Bears.
Chuck (01:28):
Duh Bears.
So one of the coolest thingsthat I.
After they announced Pope LeoXIV, they had a picture of him
when he was Archbishop, I guess,in Chicago.
John (01:46):
They had a picture of him at a Cubs game oh, that's cool,
it was a Sox game.
I thought it was a Cubs gamehe's not a Cubs fan the Cubs
claimed him, they claimed himfirst, but he's not he's
probably been to one but it wasa Sox game he was at the World
Series in 05 when they won so doyou know what his first
profession was, before he becameeven a priest?
(02:08):
He was a teacher.
Luke (02:10):
He was a math teacher.
He was a math teacher.
John (02:13):
And then going to law school and he decided to become
a priest.
Chuck (02:18):
I saw an interview where they interviewed his brother.
John (02:20):
Yeah, brother was a Catholic school principal, huh.
Chuck (02:28):
Retired.
Luke (02:28):
I did hear that he made one of his first large decisions
as Pope and he said that it'scalled soccer now, not football,
not football.
John (02:41):
I don't think that has anything to do with the faith.
I'm pretty sure he probablydidn't do that.
Luke (02:46):
They had it on Sunday morning the other day where he
said his brother was trying tocall and he finally picked up
the phone.
He's like, why don't you everanswer your phone?
That's his brother.
It's hilarious, it's greatstuff, it's super cool.
I think the one thing that wasneat that I was talking with my
wife about was that I thinksometimes here we always think
that we're ahead of the game inAmerica.
(03:08):
We're the best whatever, for thefirst time ever, we are having
the discussions about one of ourresidents, one of our citizens,
being the Pope.
All these other countries havehad this already.
We think it's kind of cool.
John (03:22):
Oh, he's from.
Luke (03:22):
Chicago, we're the last ones.
Chuck (03:28):
Even if you're not catholic, you're still involved
in the conversation hilarious.
It's kind of fun.
Good stuff though it is, it isgood.
Yeah, well, guys, I wanted tochat about something today that
I think is extremely importantand, uh, that's kind of a big
subject, but it's ethics, and Ithink, before we even jump into
this subject, that we got to becareful of on the front end is
that we don't become like holierthan thou or self-righteous,
(03:51):
because it's easy to sit up ontop of a mountain and point out
the flaws of everyone else, butI just think it's a discussion
worth having.
Luke (03:58):
I'd like to start out with a question between you guys and
you answer it for me, becausewhen we first talked about it, I
think this is a very importantpiece of what it is is what is
the difference between moralsand ethics?
Okay, because a lot of timesthose terms are intertwined and
(04:20):
used together.
But, john, what do you think,what would you say are the
difference between morals andethics?
John (04:27):
Well, I think ethics are usually externally defined
standards, and morals are kindof those personal principles we
live by, those written on ourhearts, morals, more than ethics
(04:48):
, which are defined for us.
What would you say, chuck?
Chuck (04:53):
Sort of similar to that, but maybe with a little nuance
to it.
I think ethics is a system thatyou enter into, like there's an
ethical system, like you know.
I don't know if, did you takeethics in college?
I took ethics in college and Ididn't know, but I'm still.
(05:13):
I still don't know.
I didn't really do the researchon it, but it is ethics, a part
of the philosophical school,John.
John (05:21):
According to some, ethics is is a part of philosophy yeah
philosophy that we kind of liveby.
Chuck (05:29):
So I think ethics is kind of this overarching thing I
don't even know really whatword to give to it but then
morals hold up ethics, so it'slike it the more morality would
be a pillar that holds up ethics.
I don't know if that's theright way to look at it, but
that's kind of the way I'vealways thought of it.
Luke (05:47):
Well, I mean, that's fine, it's what you think.
That's why I asked the questionbecause I think everybody looks
at it a little different.
I've really always looked at itlike ethics are extrinsic and
morals are intrinsic, so themorals come from within and the
ethics are placed there bysomething or someone or whatever
(06:08):
it would be.
That's kind of the way that I'vealways looked at it.
I don't necessarily disagreewith the fact that you said that
your morals may uphold theethics that you live by, but I
think that sometimes we mightget stuck somewhere.
I mean not me, it's nevernecessarily happened to me but
(06:29):
if you joined or you had acareer path that somehow your
morals didn't line up with theethics of that organization
might be a little problem.
John (06:42):
Well, and we talked about values.
I think values are a part ofthat conversation too.
What?
What are our values?
How do they match what thecompany's values are?
So, and how does thatintertwine with the ethical
decisions that we make as we goalong?
Chuck (07:02):
So I think there's like a system of ethics with each
different little thing.
So like I think the medicalfield has a system of ethics,
like the Hippocratic oath right,I think education has a system
of ethics business ethics,medical ethics, correct
Educational ethics, yeah.
Luke (07:21):
But I think, within those there, within those, you still
have honesty, sure you know so,as you look at and as you
introduced it, as we're going totalk about morals, how do you
see morals playing out in thisenvironment that we talk about?
Where do morals come in?
Where do you see it, yeah,being important?
(07:42):
Where do you see it having themost impact?
What do you see it beingimportant?
Where do you see it having themost impact?
What do you see with that?
Chuck (07:46):
So I think there's this perception that the ethics of a
country, or the ethics of a cityor whatever, has been declining
over the course of time.
Luke (08:00):
The ethics are or the morals are.
John (08:14):
Well, I thought we were talking about ethics.
I think morals are harder todefine for me.
Luke (08:17):
Well, I think, because they're different, right, right,
and so we might say the moralsare declining, like if there's a
moral decline a lot of peoplewould say it that way, because,
at least the way that I look it,it's hard for me to say that
there's an ethical decline,because the ethics aren't
derived from individuals,they're derived from some group
(08:39):
whatever that is, they'redefined by someone else.
Now you might say, like yousaid, if there's a moral decline
, like we've heard that word,We've heard that term.
I mean my dad used to say that,right, like there's a moral
decline.
Do I think that there's a moraldecline?
I think I would probably throwthe question back and say how
(09:00):
would you even measure that?
How would you look at it anddetermine if you think there is
a moral decline?
How would you know?
What would, what would yourindicators be that there is a
moral decline?
Chuck (09:09):
So maybe that's the question is do you guys think
there has been a moral declinein the last 20 to 40 years?
John (09:19):
Go ahead.
I think that's where we need tobe careful, because that's a
judgment, that's a judgment call, and I think that each
generation may think thatthere's a moral decline, maybe
because it's different than whatthey were taught or grew up or
(09:43):
what the morals were at the timethat that they were in the the
world's different.
Chuck (09:50):
Let me push back on that just a little bit.
I think it's okay to make ajudgment call, Okay, I think we
can judge whether something ismoral or not moral based upon an
objective truth.
But I don't.
I think where we kind of getthings a little bit hairy is
when we start condemning.
John (10:10):
A generation or people.
Correct, okay.
Luke (10:13):
I think that the word that I struggle at and I realize
it's a semantic kind of debate,it kind of lends itself to that
is that if you're talking abouta moral decline, does that mean
there's less morals?
Morals that are in place don'tlive up to what we think they
(10:33):
should be in, what they mean orwhat the meat of them is.
Does that make sense?
Chuck (10:40):
Yeah, I think it's probably both.
Luke (10:45):
Is the bar lower, or is everybody going under the bar?
Because I think that's wherethe judgment piece that I would
struggle with comes with alittle bit is that let's just
say that you have this moral.
Whatever it is, let's just saythat it's trustworthiness.
Let's just say something likethat, okay, and I believe that
it's also a moral that I wouldhave.
But you know, there's peoplethat would say, well,
(11:08):
trustworthiness means you'retelling the truth, you're doing
these things right, you're.
You're honest, you're open,you're.
You're constantly doing tellingpeople the right things, the
real things.
You're telling the truth,you're doing these things right,
you're honest, you'reconstantly telling people the
right things, the real things.
You're not, you know whatever.
Do the people that say oh well,you know what?
I didn't lie to you, I justdidn't tell you that part Like a
lie of omission, right, as we?
Chuck (11:28):
call that.
Luke (11:29):
Is that a lessening of that moral compass?
Is that a lowering of the bar?
Or is it the fact that maybeyou have three morals, where you
have trustworthiness, somethingelse and something else, and I
only have two?
Is that a moral decline?
You know what I'm saying?
That's two different things tome.
Chuck (11:45):
Yeah, I think I know what you're trying to toss out
there.
John (11:50):
Why don't you explain that ?
What do you think he means for?
Chuck (11:53):
me?
Yeah.
So what I think he means is isare there fewer, fewer morals
that people are living by, orare there this set of morals
that have been set up by thesubjective truth and people are
failing to reach that?
Is that kind of the what you'resaying truth and people are
(12:15):
failing to reach.
Luke (12:15):
That Is that kind of the what you're saying.
It's two things.
It's either it's a level of thenumber of morals you would have
or that you uphold, or is themeat of that moral being
degraded somehow to the pointnow that it doesn't mean what it
meant 30 years ago?
That's kind of what I wouldlean more toward a little bit,
just personally.
And, john, I think you alludedto it is that over the years,
(12:37):
over generations, something 50years ago probably meant
something different than it doesnow.
I mean, look at, let's justtake an example of the news.
Okay, 50 years ago peoplewalter concrete cronkite and
(12:58):
believe everything that he said,because you know what it was
factual.
It was boom, boom, boom.
That was it.
He had a reputation yeah that'swhat everybody do
Chuck (13:07):
you know, when that changed when did it change, john
John?
John (13:10):
1979.
I just heard a story on this.
It was Simon Sinek was talkingon his podcast and he said in
1979, I think it was DavidKoppel was covering the
Iran-Austria crisis and theyfigured out that, wow, if you
(13:35):
had a good story time becausethey were reporting the news.
Well, now the news channelsstarted yeah, exactly, they
(14:07):
started to monetize it.
So now what you see is one sideor the other, right.
Luke (14:13):
So now what you see is one side or the other right.
So if I'm looking at that froma moral compass, if I look at it
and I say back, then people puta lot of weight into what they
believe to be the absolute truth.
All right, now I think thatpeople don't necessarily put
that much weight into it becausethey can look at this thing,
they can look at this it,because they can look at this
(14:34):
thing, they can look at thisthing, they can look at this
thing, they can look at thisthing and they can form their
own kind of thing, which mighthave its merits, which I think
is a different discussion, but Ithink that that lessens the
impact of what that moral thatpeople 50 years ago held.
That's just kind of the waythat I look at it.
Chuck (14:56):
Yeah, I think what you're, if I hear you're right
and I I've been using this wordobjective.
I think that there's this thingwhere people don't believe
there's an objective way to dothings anymore.
There's not an objective truthto live by.
There's all these little, youknow, subjective things that you
know.
Okay, if I don't like, I canlie about things if I want to,
(15:21):
because if this person disagreeswith me or condemns me or holds
me accountable for that lie,then I've always got this person
to uphold and encourage me.
So I think it can be a slipperyslope in that judgmental and
condemning type of thing thatyou're talking about, John.
John (15:40):
The world was somewhat more black and white and it's
become a lot more gray and youhave to learn how to discern
what the truth is, or what'sright and what's not, I mean
what's being reported.
Luke (15:57):
I think a lot of times people say you know how kids
hate it when we say back in theday, right, I think what we look
at at our age is that weseemingly at least for myself
look back and everything seemedmuch simpler, yeah, okay.
(16:18):
So when we look at thatsometimes I think that that is
what lends itself to thatconversation of the moral
decline, because we were able toidentify things back then, like
you said, john, more black andwhite, like we could put this
here and put this here.
Now it's more complex.
(16:41):
Our world is ever changing,which, again, this isn't a bad
thing.
It's just that it's adjustingwhat I think morals.
If people were looking at itwhere it's going, I think that
people our age generally wouldsay I know there's some research
about it, I know you probablyhave some numbers with it, but I
(17:01):
think that people our age wouldprobably say that there's a
moral decline just because ofthe look of it, just because
they see all this stuff going onthat never happened before,
just because they see all thisstuff going on that never,
happened before.
When was the first time that youever saw on a TV show a man and
a woman sleep in the same bed,whether they were married or not
(17:22):
?
It was the Brady.
Chuck (17:24):
Bunch.
Luke (17:25):
Everything else, lucy and Ricky Mary Tyler, all of them,
they were all separate.
It was the separate beds.
Yeah, they were always separatebeds.
Chuck (17:39):
It's so much different if you look at the moral side of
things and what people put upas their morals, would you say
that there are people livingtoday who have less morals, or
that they just aren't living upto the morals that have been
expected of them?
I mean, what's your thoughts onthat and how do you put meat to
those bones?
John (18:01):
The morals maybe are different.
I don't know if you could sayit's a decline or an increase,
or how do you measure thatdecline?
I think that's what Luke saidhow do we measure that decline?
And then we can say, okay, yeah, there was a decline, or no,
(18:26):
there's not a decline in in theway that we are treating each
other, or whatever I mean.
Is that how you're going todefine it, or is it defined by
whether you show up to work ontime?
Is it defined by how you makeyour money?
Is it defined by whethercompanies are socially
(18:50):
responsible or not.
Companies are sociallyresponsible or not.
Is it defined by how you arepreserving the natural resources
we have?
So how do we define that moraldecline?
Luke (19:10):
I think the one thing that we can look at is that morals
can vary from one person toanother.
Yeah, so when you ask thatquestion, are they getting less?
I think what the question thatI have behind that is is that,
as time goes, all right, so overthe last 50 years, as the times
(19:36):
have changed, should thatchange?
Or is it okay that the moral,the way that we view the actual
moral, has changed and adaptedwith the change in times?
Because I think that it's.
It's kind of like I could usean example of.
I'll just use an example of theBible.
(19:57):
Okay, when the Bible waswritten, it was in its first
version, right, it was here inthe languages that it was
written in, in Hebrew, and allthe things that it was written
in.
As time went and people you know, translated it, moved it into
their languages and, doing it,the stories changed a little bit
(20:18):
.
Sometimes the versions as theycame through, the story itself
really didn't change, but maybethe way that it was told.
They changed some words to makeit easier for people to
understand it as time went.
Sometimes, as a preacher, I'msure that you have to use a
story from the Bible in a wayand move it a little bit to help
(20:38):
people understand the conceptof it, and that's the key, I
think is what drives themorality of the Bible, is the
objective truth that's hiddenwithin the stories.
And I think that that's what I'mtrying to say is that the
morals, if you just use them,we'll use the same one we used
before, which is truth.
That would be a moral rightRight.
(20:59):
The idea of truth is the same,but the moral as somebody now
might view it might be a littledifferent than the way that they
viewed it 50 years ago.
Even though the center truth isstill there, it's still the
same thing.
I guess the question for mewould be is do people now
(21:20):
younger than us, one or twogenerations below us, do they
look at that absolute truth thesame way?
That's where I would say no.
Chuck (21:27):
That's where I would say no too.
Luke (21:28):
I would say that it takes a different look, because I
think that the focus has changedfrom kind of a you know where
morals used to be this realpositive, bring people together,
happiness, be kind to people,that kind of thing.
And I think that that haschanged a little bit to the
(21:51):
point that maybe it's not justour focus on those morals but
it's focusing on different ones,because the times have changed
so much.
I mean, do you really thinkthat the times have changed that
much?
Chuck (22:06):
No, I think that's you know I read an article before we
actually started this that youhave actual behavior based upon
perceived behavior, and theperception of decline was way
higher than what the actualdecline is according to a Gallup
(22:27):
poll that was released in 2020.
Luke (22:29):
But what's the decline that they're measuring?
Chuck (22:32):
Yeah, and it doesn't really get into a whole lot of
of that, but it was just sayingthe perception of decline of the
majority of the responders washigher than what the actual
behavior was.
Despite those perceptions, itseems to have remained stable
over time, as opposed to gettingworse and worse and worse and
(22:54):
worse and worse.
Luke (22:54):
And I would probably tend to agree with that, only because
I think that it's notnecessarily that it's declining.
It's the way that we're viewingit, because we're viewing it
through a different set of eyes,because the times have changed.
John (23:06):
Our lens is different.
Chuck (23:09):
Our perception is different.
I think that's it, and youbring up an interesting point,
though.
When you talk about youmentioned absolute truths Like
what is it that is drivingmorality among you, know us, or
among current generations,Because you brought up the Bible
?
There are truths that are foundin that Bible that I think
(23:34):
people have, you know, lived byand died for over the years.
But back in the 1800s, you know, there were people who had the
same color skin that I have,that were using the Bible to
justify their sins slavery, youknow.
Luke (23:51):
Yeah, I think one of the things for me that I look at as
to where, like you said, wheredo those absolute truths come
from, or where do your moralscome from.
I'm a pretty firm believer thatmany of those things are taught
to you from a very young age.
Taught to you from a very youngage from your family, from your
(24:14):
parents, from, yourgrandparents, from church,
whatever it is, but from a veryyoung age.
And I believe that over theyears, as time has gone, as we
know, there's been, you know, alot of research done on it, but
there has been a breakdown ofwhat the family may look like
(24:35):
compared to what it did 50 yearsago most of the time.
And so those breakdowns have, Ithink, personally affected the
way that the morals are beingtaught or handed down to people
that are younger than us,because it's not, the world's
not the same and the makeup ofthe families and the way that
(24:58):
things are is not the same.
There's great research done onhow different it is now with the
two-generation,three-generation interaction
among families, how it's muchless now than it used to be,
because a lot of times maybethere's distance between the
youngsters and the grandparentsor the grandparents aren't
(25:21):
involved in the lives as theywere when we were younger, or
those types of things where thathas changed that interaction,
where those values and wherethose things I said, values,
where those morals come from,because I think that's important
I think that it happens more.
I think that the family unit isa large portion of where at
(25:44):
least your initial morals comefrom and what your base is like,
what your base is, and then asyou get older, we all know you
know you kind of take your ownpath and you do your things, but
it's still there and then it'spassed on again from you onto
your kids, your grandkids, thosethings as you go.
John (26:00):
And we've.
We've talked about that and youtalked about generations not
being together.
We have so many generations inour workplace now up to four
generations in a workplace.
How does that affect, maybe,the ethics?
(26:21):
People of some generations maythink it's okay not to show up
to work on time.
I don't know.
People of some generations maythink you got to be there and
you got to punch in at the exacttime.
Chuck (26:37):
You're not 15 minutes early, you're late.
John (26:39):
If you're not 15 minutes early, you're late, and there
are some people and there aresome cultures too, because I've
worked with some of those.
Absolutely that are that are,and you know you're there 15
minutes early and you're waitingto punch in until that second
turns yeah rather than taking anextra 15 minutes to punch in
(27:02):
and I also.
Chuck (27:03):
I also think, before we kind of end this discussion, I
also think that there's a facadeof morals.
Like everybody back in the1950s thought that that was the
golden era, right, but there wasa lot of crap going on.
It wasn't the best for everyone100%, and I think that's
(27:27):
universal.
Luke (27:28):
I think it's universal through time.
It is now.
I mean, there's people now thatthink this is the best time of
anything, the glory age oftechnology, or whatever you want
to say, or the 80s or the 2000s.
John (27:40):
I mean, everything has its positives.
Luke (27:42):
Every generation, every decade, every century, whatever
you want to go by, everythinghas its positives, but
everything also has itsnegatives and a lot of times
that's human nature that weremember.
We want to remember the goodtimes, not as much the bad times
.
Chuck (27:58):
Well, my point in bringing that up is that you can
appear to be, you know thatperfect family.
Right, you got the house withthe white picket fence, you know
you pay your taxes on time, yougot the kids and grandkids, and
you know everything lookspicture perfect.
But behind that is, a isn't agreat picture could be just a
(28:24):
facade and I think sometimes ourculture gets tricked into
thinking that because there'sthis moralistic facade, that
exists.
John (28:32):
I think what you're talking about is we write our
own story and throughout life wehave to write our own story.
Sometimes those stories aren'tquite.
Maybe they're fish stories, Idon't know.
Have you ever told a fish story?
Does the fish get bigger whenyou catch it?
I'm not a fisherman.
Chuck (28:53):
So you're thinking that, behind some of these good old
stories that we've talked about,that the fish is a little bit
bigger than what it actually was?
John (29:00):
or or we are.
Luke (29:03):
We're omitting some of the things that we don't want
people to know, or maybe maybeeven forgetting some of those
things right, right, yeah, yeah,I think, I think that's the
other part of it is that, when Iwas mentioning that before, how
people look back on things andwe concentrate on the positives
(29:23):
at our age, I know for me forsure there's parts of it that
you forget.
But generally speaking, whatare the parts that we forget?
The negative, negative parts?
Chuck (29:32):
Yeah.
Luke (29:33):
Because it's easier or cleaner to forget the negative
parts than it is the positivepart.
Yeah, Because you know youdon't want to really remember
the negative if you don't haveto Well, it casts us in a
different light when we'retelling those stories, right
Well?
John (29:46):
100% and we might be wired that way.
Human beings might be wiredthat way.
Not sure, but I think we are.
Luke (30:00):
I do think the one part that I just want to throw in,
the last part that Johnmentioned and he said something
about the morals and how we actright, that back up what our
morals are right.
We talked about this withvalues a little bit.
I think that the gray aspect ofmorals, I think, can get you in
trouble, because if you'rereally not defining your morals,
(30:20):
I think that you're kind ofgiving yourself an out.
You know what I mean.
You're building yourself a trapdoor or an escape door.
That, oh well, you know, Ireally didn't mean that.
I meant this.
Chuck (30:31):
Yeah.
Luke (30:32):
You know you're really not being truthful with yourself.
Chuck (30:35):
So in your mind, if you can define and list out the
morals that you want to live by,whether they be few or many,
then it's, it's putting you,it's setting you up for more
success.
Luke (30:52):
Yeah, your morals tend not all the time, but tend to drive
you in a certain direction,toward what career you would
choose, Because you want toalign what you believe in with
an organization that has ethicslike this or whatever it is,
because that's a little bit of aproblem if your morals don't
line up with that.
(31:12):
Like you said, they're likepillars that are holding it up
right.
So if they're not lined up withthat, it could make things
difficult for all those that areyou know, that may listen to
the podcast, that are youngerand looking for careers.
I think it's an important thingfor you to do is to be able to
look at as a human being, as aperson, to be true to yourself
(31:33):
and your morals, to say what doyou guys do?
What's your moral compass,what's your ethical structure?
Chuck (31:39):
Right, yeah, I think that's a really good point to be
made.
Got a quote for us.
Luke (31:45):
When wealth is lost, nothing is lost.
When health is lost, somethingis lost.
When character is lost, all islost.
Chuck (31:54):
That's a doozy.
I'm a character, Danger Will.
Luke (31:57):
Robinson.
John (31:58):
Danger, yes, well, hey, thanks for hanging out with us
here at Half Century Hangout.
Be sure to like us on yourfavorite podcast app and we'll
see you next time.
Peace out the Bears.
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