April 30, 2025 • 37 mins
The unexpected financial revolution sweeping through college athletics has created a fascinating new landscape where teenage athletes can become millionaires before ever signing an NFL contract. In this thought-provoking episode of Half Century Hangout, Luke and Chuck welcome guest Danny to dissect how Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) deals are fundamentally reshaping collegiate sports.
From jaw-dropping numbers like Michigan quarterback Bryce Underwood's reported $10.5 million NIL package to the staggering growth of the overall market from $917 million to $1.91 billion in just a few years, the guys explore what these seismic changes mean for the future of college athletics. But beyond the headlines, they reveal the surprising reality that most student-athletes earn modest sums – with the average Division I player making just $23,000 annually from NIL deals.
The conversation ventures into deeper territory, questioning whether these financial opportunities are undermining the educational purpose of college athletics or simply providing fair compensation for athletes whose talents have been monetized for decades. The discussion examines how NIL combined with the transfer portal has created a "free agency" environment that threatens team continuity and potentially weakens the bonds between players, coaches, and schools. Most concerning may be the trickle-down effect to high school sports, where athletes as young as 17 can now earn six-figure deals before stepping foot on a college campus.
Whether you're a sports enthusiast or simply interested in how money is reshaping one of America's most beloved institutions, this episode offers valuable perspective on maintaining the balance between fair compensation and preserving what makes college athletics special. Join us for an engaging conversation about the complex intersection of education, athletics, and commerce in today's rapidly evolving sports landscape.
Have thoughts about NIL and its impact on college sports? We'd love to hear your take! Share your perspective with us and join the conversation about the future of collegiate athletics.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the half century hangout.
What's up?
What's up, man, we're over hereat Luke's garage again.
It's our favorite place to hangout in the Luke.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I love it.
I love it.
And you know what?
We got somebody else hangingout with us today.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We do.
We got Danny with us and hello.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Danny's another buddy of ours.
John was a little under theweather today.
So, john, we hope you feelbetter and everything will be
good.
Danny was able to step in.
We're happy to have him.
We've had a lot ofconversations with Danny over
the years too, so I think that,even though he's not half
century, I think he fits inpretty well.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Here's the thing he looks like he's half century.
Yeah, he kind of does.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
He kind of does Was the NFL draft last week and kind
of watched some of that andsome interesting things going on
there, with the largest humanbeing signed to an NFL team this
draft Not drafted, the guy fromFlorida, 464 pounds.
So he got signed undrafted freeagent.
(01:02):
He signed Largest one ever 464pounds.
How tall?
Six, seven I think, or so fast.
Actually he ran like a five,four or something.
Five, three, five, four yeah,that's all his pro day.
Yeah, yeah, it was uh prettyimpressive.
Like for a big man he can move.
But you know there's also a lotof those guys that are making
(01:26):
less, probably their first yearin the NFL than they were in
college.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh, yeah, for sure, with the freshman pay or the
rookie pay that they get,compared to some of the NIL
deals.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
That's one of our topics today.
A big topic is the NIL marketand kind of what that means, and
for those of you that followsports and do it, I mean, you'll
know what we're talking about.
But those of you that don'tusually follow sports might be
something new.
But we're going to tie it intosome other stuff that that goes
along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
This was honestly the first year I think that I paid
this close attention to thedraft yeah, yeah and just a
little bit of interestingknowledge.
I'm sitting there watching thefirst round and I think we're
maybe 20, 25 deep, right, and Iget this text.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Beers.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No oh picks.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh, okay, picks.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay, I get this text , Danny, from yours truly over
there and he says I might havebeen 25 deep.
How many Michigan versus howmany Ohio?
State number one draft pickshave been going on so far.
And what did I text back, Luke?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You said that you were blue collar or late
bloomers or something.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
No, I said we're waiting to count at the end.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh yeah.
But then you said blue collar,we win blue collar wise.
And I said yeah, you had a bluecollar loss in there too.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
And I emphasized blue .
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You, you know, just to make sure, there was a decent
amount of iowa, and iowa statepeople that there was iowa.
There was a lot.
I mean, once you got through itI mean there was actually quite
a few, and michigan had a lotof undrafted free agents that
were.
That were there too.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But 14 ohio state buckeyes drafted in the round in
the nfl draft.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah most of Most of them, the last picks.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, they were down there a little, but it's all
right, you'll take them howeverit goes, it's all right, I think
Kansas City got one Pittsburghman, they picked up on Ohio
State, they got our quarterbackand they got, oh shoot, I think,
our running back Travion.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That's why Pittsburgh who they are, because they
waited for later on, my guys,you know.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And the other thing, then you got from back in the
day in the draft.
You know you had prime timeSanders.
Right then you got his son bouttime.
I had to throw that one inthere sorry, couldn't help.
It, couldn't help it yeah, Igotta throw it over the bow,
that's fine.
But you know, it's funny howyou talked about not watching
(03:49):
the draft as much you knowpreviously and going into it now
.
But you know the NIL thing.
You know, when it first kind ofstarted kicking up like 21, 22,
somewhere in there, it was likea $917 million that it
represented across the wholething, across the college,
across the whole thing.
But we'll, we'll step into thatfootball, college sports, okay,
(04:11):
okay.
And now it's over 1.91 billionand it'll it'll be.
You know, after this nextseason it'll it'll definitely
skyrocket over there took.
Oh, yeah, yeah her own and youknow, it's one of those things
where for years, for years andyears and years, it was one of
those things where, growing up,I was such a college sports fan
(04:35):
and I think what I clung toclung Clinged.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Clang.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think clung Clung is right Clung to was that I
thought that the game was purebecause the players played for
their school, they wanted this,they wanted that, but the pros
were getting paid.
So I kind of always just it wasnever on my big wheelhouse
thing, like I always kind ofthought of it that way.
And so then when it started tobe the idea that there were was
(05:00):
money going to change hands withthis, I have to say I was a
little taken back by it.
I was a little bit like oh, youknow, I don't know.
I mean, you're getting aneducation at a great university
somewhere You're probablygetting a quarter million dollar
education.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, I mean just that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
But I think when it came down, one time when the Fab
Five was at Michigan and ChrisWeber had a great interview and
he was walking down the streetwith Mitch Albom, who was a
great writer from back then whostill is, and he was noticing
because the Fab Five, you know,we're all over the place right,
they were.
They had his Jersey in thewindow.
Chris Weber didn't have anymoney to buy a pizza and he's
(05:37):
like look at, people are gettingmoney off of my name and my
Jersey, but I don't get any ofit.
So there's a lot of differentsides to it.
I in my jersey, but I don't getany of it.
So there's a lot of differentsides to it.
I've generally been kind ofagainst it, but I think one of
the things that opened up mymind to it just especially in
this draft because we've seenand heard this draft how many
guys like some big names whowill be getting paid less than
(06:00):
what they were making in NILmoney or even were offered in
NIL money to stay this year isthat and my son was telling me
about this was that maybe thiswill be the impetus for guys to
stay in college a little longerand finish their degree, which I
had never really thought of it,kind of like, you know, it's my
kid, what do I listen to, right?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I mean, he doesn't know anything but he kind of did
Like it was right.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So, Nathan, shout out to you.
You know so it was.
It was an interesting one and Ithink this was the first time
that I really saw that it's likesome of these guys are leaving
some money on the table.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, what was your initial reaction to NIL money?
So?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I guess I agree with a little bit what Luke said in
the beginning is that you'regoing to college for four years
and I know you're not gettingpaid, but you are getting four
years at great colleges like,let's say, michigan or iowa
state, where you're getting afour-year college degree and if
something does happen to you inthe nfl you can fall back with a
little bit of of education.
(06:56):
But now you got like caitlincaitlin clark, just for example,
who she's done with college andshe's going into her second
year and going into her firstyear she's making more money
than some of the basketballplayers that have been there for
10 years.
Yeah, so I'm sure that's got tobuild a little bit of animosity
, but I do think it takes away alittle bit from the sanctity of
college football when you'remaking, you know, three, four,
(07:19):
five million dollars before youeven get to the nfl.
Where's the actual just playingfor the game in college?
Now you're worried just as muchabout am I getting paid my
money as you are, am I actuallydoing well on the field or just
loving the game of football?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, I was forced to think about this when Maurice
Corrette was kind of he got introuble for the whole trade and
paraphernalia Ohio State Buckeyeparaphernalia for tattoos.
I'm like it's a freaking tattoo.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know seven, eight , nine, maybe, if it's a good
tattoo artist twelve, fourteenhundred bucks.
And these guys got extremelypenalized for that, you know 10,
15 years ago.
Penalized for that, you know 10, 15 years ago.
And so I got to thinking that,man, there's got to be a better
way.
Because you have these coacheswho are making millions and
(08:10):
millions of dollars you know,the school was making millions
of dollars the heads of thesedifferent leagues, you know, big
10 sec, whatever, they'remaking millions of dollars off
the backs of these athletes who,if they get hurt, it's over.
Yeah, like they're selling usedcars or something.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I think one of the things one of the things that
brings it back a little bit tohome is that stat from October
of 2024.
So just last fall.
So the one thing that that whenwe talk about NIL for those of
you who don't know, that's name,image and likeness, all right,
so that's kind of how it startedwas the idea that if you have
your name, your image, yourlikeness, if you're on a video
(08:51):
game, if they're selling jerseys, if they're doing your name,
whatever it is, because remember, like before, you couldn't buy
a collegiate football jerseywith a name on the back, right,
you could get the number, butyou couldn't get the name on the
back.
You would have to put that onyourself, right, I forgot all
(09:12):
about that, you know.
But now they do, yeah, now theydo it, but the in in last year,
the number one.
So division one, nil deals.
The average was two thousandsix hundred eighteen dollars.
Okay, so it puts it intoperspective.
Like we're hearing the big ones, right, you're hearing of the
bryce underwood who's getting10.5 million dollars at michigan
to come there.
You're hearing the big ones,right, you're hearing of the
Bryce Underwood who's getting$10.5 million at Michigan to
come there.
You're hearing big ones.
But mainly what it is is thatfor that $2,618, the average
(09:34):
total earnings of a D1 playerlast year was $23,000.
So still, even with those highends, most of them aren't making
these millions of dollars.
Okay, they're making something.
Them aren't making, you know,these millions of dollars.
Okay, they're making somethingthat's going to.
You know they can buy pizza.
You know they can put gas intheir car, they can do these
things that are there.
But I think, at some point, Ifeel like the NCAA is going to
(09:58):
have to do something with it,Because part of it, part of it
at some point.
Here is also the portal, whichis something that we want to
talk about as well.
The NIL stuff, the money.
You knew at some point it wasgoing to happen.
So really, the only rule isthat that money can't come from
the school, so it's donors, youknow.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Donors, boosters, whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I mean the guy from Michigan.
Everybody says it was ten and ahalf million dollars.
The guy that gave the money wasthe CEO of Oracle, which is
like a communication.
I mean, that's the company.
He's the one that put the moneyup.
Okay, but his money wasbasically put into the thing to
go.
But it's like he got two freecars.
(10:40):
His parents got a car, you know, he got the thing they talked
about what's the guy's name?
From Crate To get him to stay.
That was a condo right next toDoug McDermott's, like you know,
there's different ways to makethe deals look the way that they
are.
Yeah, but putting it inperspective, this is over all of
D1.
It's not just football, it'severything the interesting thing
(11:03):
, and it's there.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
The interesting stat I would like to hear is the
Power 5.
Like, what's the average amongthe Power 5?
Well, it's definitely higherbut when you say all d1, I mean
you're bringing in ohiouniversity.
You know who they.
There may be some nil moneythere, but there well think
about.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Think about it here where we live, right?
So if you look at university ofnebraska, all right, part of
where money goes, it's alwayslocation.
It's like realty, real estate,right?
Location, location, location.
So you got the guy last year, Iremember whatever that cat's
name was on the NebraskaCornhuskers football team.
His name was somehow synonymouswith heating and air
(11:44):
conditioning and that's who.
He was a spokesperson for,which is great.
So he's there in his jersey andhe's making a commercial, but
his name fit into HVAC, whichwas cool, which I think is
that's kind of how they alwaysthought that it was going to be.
Was that I can be aspokesperson, I can have a
sponsor, I can do whatever.
But I think that it's blown upfrom there to the point that who
(12:08):
is the cat that just leftschool, went to UCLA and didn't
get as much money as tennessee.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I don't remember oh, but it's, it's.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It's crazy though there has to be a cap, right
like.
So you can't leave college andhave 10 I know that might be a
crazy, you're right, that'd bethe top one percent.
But you can't even leavecollege and have nine hundred
thousand dollars that you madein four years, right.
And then you're like're like,all, right, now I'm going to the
NFL.
I'm already have a whole bunchof money already.
It kind of ruins like thesanctity of you went there for
(12:40):
four years and it was when, whenyou were a little kid and you
were like I want to go to thenational football league.
That was the top tier.
Now, if you're making that muchmoney for the good, good
players, you get done withcollege and you're like well, I
made $2 million in four years,yeah, the.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
NIL also goes into high school, okay, hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
There are states.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Well, it's still, you can.
You can make money.
Different states have somedifferent laws as to how that
works and how it looks, butthere are high school players
that are making some money.
I mean, now, they're big-nameplayers, I'm sure.
But again, think of where ourhigh school football powerhouses
are Texas, florida, california,even.
(13:24):
These places where IMG Academy,these places where these players
go, they're getting money wherewe used to say, oh the booster
know friday night lights you seeall these things right on on
movies and tv and stuff well, ifthat's the case, then look at.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
So then just think about this and this is what I'm
talking about like too muchmoney, uh, for some kids.
People can't handle that.
So what if you're given thenumber one prospect in, uh, the
united states of america goinginto college and he made
$300,000 in high school?
That's crazy.
And then what kind of personare you in college when you
(14:01):
think, heck, I already made it.
I made $300,000.
And not a lot of people have$300,000 in their bank account
as normal American.
And some 17-year-old kids arelike I'm going to college with
$300,000 in my bank account, asas normal american right, and
and some 17 year old kids likeI'm going to college with 300
grand in my bank account.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So what happens if?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
a sophomore at michigan is like, all right, I'm
making this little bit and nowmoney, but I think I can make a
little more here.
So then that goes in thetransfer portal to where I'm
going to transfer to a differentschool where I think I can make
a little more money because Imight be a better running back
at that school than I currentlyam here, and it instead of I'm
gonna wait.
I'm gonna wait one more yearand see if I can get better and
(14:38):
be the man at Michigan.
Yeah, you know what?
Nope, I'm gonna transfer overbecause they need it.
I'm gonna transfer over to theBuckeyes and make sure that I
can run there and and make alittle more money and be a
running back there.
It kind of ruins, like the, thetruth about, uh, college
football because you don't knowif someone gets drafted or if
someone goes to michigan nowthey're not going to be there in
(15:00):
four years, the way things aregoing, no one's staying in the
same school.
It kind of ruins collegefootball in that aspect where
you don't know.
It's just like the nfl.
At that point, who's going tobe aware next?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
year.
But see the way they control inthe nfl is through contracts
yeah, but that's not, that's nothappening, I know, but I think
that's where we got to go.
If in college, with nil, moneyis some type of a contract that
incentivizes a, an athlete, tostay at a place for two years or
four years or whatever, basedon well and you kind of hope,
(15:30):
like I was saying, that thatwould be the impetus for
somebody to stay?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
yeah, which would that would affect your transfer
portal issue but this is kind oflike what you said, chuck, and
it's like I think you said this,shared this with me.
It's like the grass is onlygreener where you water, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So they keep thinking, oh, it'sgoing to be better if I go over
here because I'm going to getmore money, but it doesn't
happen that way.
I think the other thing that Ifall back on with it, with that
(15:58):
portal part, which this is whereI get kind of pissed off,
because I think that the portal,I think that it's working its
way down to the point where thecommitment to the program and
playing the course of holdingthe course and going, like Danny
said, I'm going to stay anotheryear because I want to be the
(16:20):
guy.
I want to be the guy at runningback, I want to be the left
tackle, I want to be thelinebacker and that guy that's
in front of me I'm better thanhe is.
I know I can beat him out.
I know I can do it.
They get into strongcompetition.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Coaches encourage that competition by not saying
you're going to be my startingquarterback for the next four
years but I think one of thereasons we're in this spot is
because so many people havescrewed so many people over over
the years.
Like you get a coach who youknow abuses or maybe overuses a
particular athlete and islooking at the w's of his, of
(16:56):
his program instead of lookingout for the health of that
particular player and yeah, Iagree.
You know what I'm saying, Iagree and so you know, you have
these things that have gone onover the years and you, you know
it causes that mindset.
Well, I'm going to get minewhen I can.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think that's more of a high school problem than a
college problem.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think it's a you look at.
In my opinion, you look at RG3.
Yeah, rg3 out of Baylor.
The way he was treated I thinkat Washington overused, ended up
getting injured you know, whatI'm saying.
And they didn't care anythingabout his health.
(17:35):
Honestly, it didn't seem likeit, and now he's out of the
league and can't play anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But what's he doing?
He was an announcer.
He's an announcer.
He's not hurting, he's not likeyou know, he ain't selling
these cars.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
You look at the money he makes some great suits too.
You look at the money he couldhave made over a career.
It definitely impacted hislivelihood.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
But I think that it does still take away.
I mean, I hear what you'resaying and I think that there
definitely have been coaches andpeople over time that have
taken the athlete and their bestinterest and put it on the back
burner as opposed to just I'mgoing to, I want to win, or I
want to do this or whatever itis.
We've all seen instances ofthat over the years, but I still
(18:18):
think that, Danny, you've usedthis word twice tonight and I
love it just because you said itwas the sanctity of the game.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I'm a vocalist.
All right, you're a linguist.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
You're a linguist, danny, uh, and I've never said
that before, so that's okay.
So I I'm not discounting theplayers, but I, I, I fear for
the idea that we play into theirdreams, their whatever they've
thought about, dreamed aboutlike like playing here or doing
(18:52):
this, whatever.
Hey, come here, kid, and dothis, you know whatever it is.
And they're already committedto somebody else and they say
you know what?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I'm leaving, I'm gonna go there that's where I
think contracts have to comeinto play, because I think
there's going to be a payoff andan interest for both parties.
Let's think about it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
but think, chuck, what is the real thing?
Like, I think we've all said iton some level, but the idea is
that you're going to college fora degree for free.
You're getting a four-yearcollege degree from a D1 school.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
That's not necessarily.
I don't think that's what theseathletes necessarily are going
to college for.
Yeah, but that's, but isn'tthat the?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
It's a stepping.
It's a stepping stone that youhave to do.
You're not, you're not goingfrom high school to the NFL,
obviously.
So it's a stepping stone.
So you have to.
(19:55):
I don't mean fall in line, butkind of fall in line and do what
you're supposed to do and notmake a bunch of money because
you know that's on the back end.
So not to cut you off, but soalso, what does that do for
coaching?
So think about just going backto what luke said and then not
just for a minute here at highschool, if some high school
let's say, the best person, bestquarterback in high school,
started making his junior year50 grand and his senior year
$100,000.
And the coach was like you'vegot to do this, coach.
I'm making $100,000 a year.
(20:15):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
You make $10,000 a year Because we've seen it at
the college level already.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, you see it at the pro level and I was going
from that, like the high schoollevel.
You have kids like what are youtalking about Going to the
college level?
I'm sure it's hard at thecollege level for coaches to be
like, listen, hey, luke, youmissed that.
You missed that block bud.
If you miss that block again,we might, we might have to look
at someone else.
Well, that's fine, I'll gosomewhere else where they're not
(20:41):
going to do that to me.
So that's what scares me aboutthis money to where some kids
are going to get a little toomuch.
I money to where some kids aregoing to get a little too much.
I'll do whatever I want and ifyou don't like what I'm doing
and I don't like what you'redoing, I'll just go somewhere
else.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I think there's checks and I think we saw it in
the draft.
I think there's checks in thesystem for that type of
arrogance Like maybe you shoulddo what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We definitely saw that, but think about that for a
second.
Let's focus on it just for asecond because we don't want to
take too much time on it.
But the idea is, and if youtalk to anybody, especially Mel
Kiper Jr, who's probably goingto get axed from ESPN for all
his rants, but the idea is, youlook at him as a quarterback.
We're going too far into sportshere, folks.
I know Great quarterback, greatathlete, does his thing.
(21:25):
But when you look atquarterbacks, holds the ball too
long, throws balls that heshouldn't, leaves a lot on the
table.
He doesn't take the passes theeasy ones that he should,
doesn't take his checks, doeshis thing.
They see that.
But they ranked him high.
I think personally just mypersonal opinion this is not
factual of any sort, even thoughusually what I say is golden.
(21:48):
But the idea is that I thinkthey ranked him too high to
start with and they're they'reretiring his number for a 500
record and something.
It's.
It's crazy to me, but kids seethat and, like you said, they're
not going to college for thedegree.
Right, like you said, they'regoing to get themselves out of a
situation.
(22:08):
It's like a minor leaguebaseball.
But the idea is is that I thinkthat's where we have failed, as
either parents or educators oras coaches, to say look at
what's going on here, becauseyou are one hit away from your
career being done, but if you goto this school and your
sophomore year you blow yourknee out, you're still going to
(22:31):
get your education becausethey're going to honor it.
You've got a four-yearscholarship.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
You're going to get it and you're still going to be
a winner, but the way it's setup is with the NIL money,
they'll also get their money.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Well, I understand that, and that's what I'm saying
is that I think that theemphasis still needs to be on
the importance of what they arereceiving besides the NL.
I mean, that's the thing.
Now I've got guys, players,athletes, student athletes.
Student athletes Agreed we haveto keep saying it and we
(23:05):
stopped saying it a while ago.
I still struggle sometimes atschool, like I have to say that
and that you have to.
You are a student first.
You're an athlete second.
okay, right now, I'm not sayingthat the athlete part isn't
putting food on the table.
I'm not saying that.
But the idea is is that withthe athlete part your window
could break any day.
(23:27):
And you know what, if you don'teven have a piece of wood to
put over the window, you'rescrewed yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So here, in theory, let's talk in theory.
Right, in theory.
If a kid student athlete goesto one of these power five gets
a mega nil deal.
They've got the money.
They get their knee blown out.
Sophomore year, their career'sfinished, they still got the
money.
They get their knee blown out.
Sophomore year, their career'sfinished, they still got the
money.
Career as a football player,career as a football player.
(23:53):
But they would still have themoney to come back and get that
education.
They don't need a scholarshipat that point because they got
the money to pay for theeducation.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
But I guess what the thing is with me, Chuck, is that
, and I hear what you're saying,but the idea would be is that
if it wasn't placed as importantfor them before the fact, what,
all of a sudden, is going tomake it important after it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
But we've created this mechanism by putting all of
this money into it and notallowing any of these players to
get access to that money.
We tell them they're collegekids?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, I know how many other college kids.
They're college kids.
Yeah, I know how many othercollege kids.
So what about the college kid?
That's not to degrade whatyou're saying, but what about
the college kid that's a supersmart kid at Harvard and he
graduates from college and thenbecomes some dude at NASA, or
some dude that does somethinggreat and invents a great thing.
(24:47):
Some dude that works, doessomething great and invents a
great thing?
How?
We're not talking about givinghim millions of dollars?
Uh, because he's working andgoing to work at nasa.
How many times have?
Hey, you're going to be a nasaworker, so here's all this money
so you can be smart and try andwhat.
What makes an athlete soimportant that he gets because
of the?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
money that the schools and the industry of
athletics is making off of hisname and his ability to play.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think that's what makes him unique.
I mean, I hear you, but it's aslippery slope because I would
back that up to say that theidea is that if you have I mean
Danny, put it nicely if you'vegot a brainiac, a kid who's just
off the charts, and let's sayhe's in whatever it is, cares
cancer.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
How come he doesn't get it the idea?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
is that they are still in these schools, a lot of
them.
They're still making money offthe research and things that are
based on what maybe this kid intheir department in biology or
whatever it's in are making offof the backs of the kids that
are doing the research and doingtheir thesis and all this stuff
and figuring stuff out.
(25:52):
It's different money, don't getme wrong.
I'm not saying but still, it'sthe idea that I think, and the
one thing that you said, chuck,that I do agree on, is that
we've put this into place.
I don't mean like me and you.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I mean that just in general, but you guys don't have
the money to put it.
I definitely haven't.
I need a gallon of urethane ifanybody has one for me.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
But the idea is that I think that we've made it less
important, we've downplayed theimportance of what that
education does for you and whatit can do for you.
All right, and I know thateverybody's not a four-year
college guy Like I get it yeah,some guys you know, or trade
school guys, there's all sortsof you know avenues for people
(26:39):
to go, but I don't want to evercause this is what we're in.
We're in education.
The idea is is that, listen,we're here to make sure that you
have a future that's solid foryou and your family, for you,
for everybody.
Okay, the athletics part mightbump your bank account up and
you can do something with it andthat's great, but you know what
(27:02):
that money's going to run out?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Here's a thought.
Here's a thought.
So you have this high schooloutstanding athlete number one,
rated uh, in the in the country,right?
So you have this kid whodoesn't know much about finances
, doesn't know how the bills arepaid, because he's just not
lived in that world, but we'retelling him to go to a school
(27:25):
and to be happy with a I don'tknow 400, $400,000.
Let's say it's $400,000education, depending upon where
you go.
$250,000, $400,000, half amillion, whatever.
Be happy with that.
All the meanwhile there's theschool and all of these other
people that are makingmulti-millions of dollars by
(27:45):
putting him on the screen everySaturday and him playing lights
out, is that?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
fair and again, I'm not disagreeing with you.
I just think that we've said ita couple times there needs to
be some sort of a cap.
There needs to be some sort ofa thing that says, hey, we
completely understand that youare helping us with our
financial goals to provideprograms for our whole school.
Okay, so we're going to giveyou this, we're going to give
(28:15):
you X amount or whatever it is.
Or we have a donor that's goingto give you X amount, whether
that's a hundred thousanddollars, whether it's two or
whatever it is.
I don't know what the number is.
I'm not here to argue thenumber.
It's just the idea to say and Idon't disagree with you at all,
I really don't it's just theidea that it needs to be
something where it's not thewild, wild west.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, a ridiculous amount of money.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Because that takes away what you know.
Just five years ago, beforethis really got into it,
everybody was talking aboutbecause of scholarships and
everything else there was parity.
Coming back to college football, that's going to go away again.
Yeah, Look at the Power Fivealready.
Look at, the Power Five isalready miles ahead.
(29:01):
Look at the SEC Everybody isjust miles ahead of these other
D1 schools.
Yeah, they're miles ahead.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And the idea is that we can't, and I think it's a bad
lesson for kids, because it'slike whoever's got the more
money wins.
That's really what it comesdown to, which is not a great
lesson to teach kids.
I don't think, because ifyou're ever in the spot where
you don't have the most money,well, what am I going to do now?
I don't know what else to do.
I don't know what else to do.
(29:35):
I don't have anything else.
I don't know anything else.
I don't know another way, youknow.
I mean, like you, look at someof the it happens in
entertainment.
Look at the kids who were childactor stars.
Right, it's the same thing.
They grew up in that lifestylewhere they were like the g and
they knew once they got old andthey don't look the part anymore
into the curb yeah, I mean,what do you do?
And you hate that.
College athletes might go thatway and I love the idea, even
though half of them I turn thevolume off when I do it.
(29:56):
But the guys and women that dothese sports that then become
announcers some of them I lovebecause you can tell they have
the passion for the sport andthey know what they're talking
about.
Other ones because you can tellthey have the passion for the
sport and they know what they'retalking about.
Other ones you can tell whenthey talk there's a kid with a
journalism degree that could dobetter than they are Sure you
(30:18):
know what I mean, yeah.
And you all know who thosepeople are.
And I turn the volume down andturn the radio on when those
guys are right.
I just, I just can't handle it.
But I think my concern is mostof it.
Are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Tony Romo Maybe.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, he's a horrible guy.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
No, I'm kidding, I think that.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
We can edit that out.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
No, we're leaving that one.
I think that it's more of thething for me as it trickles down
, because everything tricklesdown just like it did when we
were kids.
People saw things that Jordandid.
Whoever like the shorts,everything happens right.
All these things that trickledown and kids see it and it's
like you know what?
Right now you're in high schoolfootball, you're in friday
(31:01):
night lights.
This is your opportunity tojust shine, have fun with your
friends and get out there and doit and work your butts off.
Whether you're playingvolleyball, whether you're
running cross country, whateverit is, you're playing tennis.
All these kids that we see atour school doing this stuff.
It's like guess what?
This is your shot right here.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And we still want them to think that Right, we
still want them to have thedream that says hey, you know
what I could be, that I could dothat.
Great, then work your butt offto get there.
Don't wait for the handout.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Don't wait for the handout.
It goes right back to what Isaid at the beginning of this
the guard at Michigan who's an11th grader.
He's like next year I'mstarting, yeah, but if we, no,
I'm not going to try and beatChuck out for the guard position
.
I'm going to go to a differentschool where I know I'm going to
play what happened to beatingChuck out or beating Luke.
(31:55):
I'm going to beat Luke out thisyear and I'm going to be the
starting guy.
But see what you said there isthat.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Why do they think in the first place that they're
going to go over here to thisschool and be the starter?
It's because somebody told themyes, some coaches, a bunch of
you know what.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And then they get there and they're like well hey,
that out yeah, I was.
You ain't.
You ain't starting, but you'llbe good.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Second string yeah, that's just how it works.
I mean, we've all seen kidsthat have gone to another school
and have watched from thesideline one.
They could have been in ourschool playing every friday
night doing their thing, havinga great time, making lifetime
memories with their buddies,right like you know, all of us
have those memories, right ofyou know.
(32:36):
Chuck showed me pictures.
We've all seen that stuff.
That's what it's about, yeah,is that you know what?
I was with my buddies and we.
We did this and we did this andyou know what?
Maybe you weren't nationalchampions or you weren't,
whatever it was.
The idea is is that you workedyour butt off.
You accomplished something,yeah, and you made yourself a
better person because of it yeah, I mean, that's really what it
(32:58):
is.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, and the beauty of high school football
particularly um for most peopleout there, for most football
players out there are is is thememories right yeah the fun,
yeah like luke was talking.
You know, I remember playingfootball with you know, marco
coleman and william cool, willmckinney and lorenzo redman and
keenan early and all those guys,man, we had an incredible time
(33:23):
playing high school football.
You know, and I think some ofthese other things, for maybe
some of the elite athletes cankind of cloud, yep that issue
like the the real life fun of it.
Yeah but I just wonder if wehave to like, if we're reacting
to something when you talk aboutin a in our own high school, if
we're reacting to somethingthat maybe I don't know if we'll
(33:45):
see in our context or not.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
As is normally the case.
You know, we come up with aquote, I come up with something,
and I think I struggled with ita little bit because there's so
many that are there.
But desire is the key tomotivation.
But it's determination andcommitment to an unrelenting
pursuit of your goal.
It's a commitment to excellencethat will enable you to attain
(34:12):
the success you seek.
So, whether that player is justbent on the money or making
their family in a betterposition, whatever that is, it's
still about the hard work, it'sstill about the commitment and
that pursuit of excellence thatdoes it.
It's not just hey, that guy ofexcellence that does it.
It's not just hey, that guyover there said I can do better
(34:33):
or I can make more, or I can youknow?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Okay.
The idea is is to accept what'sin front of you, take it as an
opportunity, work your butt offand show everybody around that
you're good enough to do it andto show yourself.
You know, we see a lot ofpeople that don't have that
self-esteem right.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Maybe they have a lower self-esteem or they don't
think well about themselves, butyou know that's a huge builder
for themselves.
Yeah, I mean, the fact that Iplayed some college football to
me is a great thing in my life.
It's like hey there's a lot ofpeople that don't do that that
got the opportunity and I,luckily, was blessed to get the
opportunity Came from hard work.
I mean, one of my collegecoaches said you're not at all
(35:15):
one of the best athletes I'veever seen, but you work hard.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You're a hard worker, you know it's just.
That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
And I think that that quote, even from him, stuck
with me because it's like youdon't have to be the best Hard
work.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
mediocrity outlast and will outdo lazy talent any
day of the week.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Look at this guy.
Hey, don't you talk to me likethat coach.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Hey, you know what Danny thanks for being here
today.
You're the best.
I mean.
We'll put you on the list tocome back.
Chuck appreciate it.
You know, john, we missed you,but you know what Hope you're
feeling better, we'll have youback.
We'll be ready to go.
Great time today.
Fun, fun.
It was a little different topicbut it was good.
We like it.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
We talk about anything.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, you guys are okay.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
He's a good guy.
He's not half century, but he'sclose.
Yeah, he's close.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Half century.
I would assume you tookadvanced math, didn't you
getting?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
out of here.
We'll see you guys later nexttime we get together to hang out
, peace out.
Welcome back to the half century hangout.
What's up?
What's up, man, we're over hereat Luke's garage again.
It's our favorite place to hangout in the Luke.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I love it.
I love it.
And you know what?
We got somebody else hangingout with us today.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We do.
We got Danny with us and hello.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Danny's another buddy of ours.
John was a little under theweather today.
So, john, we hope you feelbetter and everything will be
good.
Danny was able to step in.
We're happy to have him.
We've had a lot ofconversations with Danny over
the years too, so I think that,even though he's not half
century, I think he fits inpretty well.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Here's the thing he looks like he's half century.
Yeah, he kind of does.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
He kind of does Was the NFL draft last week and kind
of watched some of that andsome interesting things going on
there, with the largest humanbeing signed to an NFL team this
draft Not drafted, the guy fromFlorida, 464 pounds.
So he got signed undrafted freeagent.
(01:02):
He signed Largest one ever 464pounds.
How tall?
Six, seven I think, or so fast.
Actually he ran like a five,four or something.
Five, three, five, four yeah,that's all his pro day.
Yeah, yeah, it was uh prettyimpressive.
Like for a big man he can move.
But you know there's also a lotof those guys that are making
(01:26):
less, probably their first yearin the NFL than they were in
college.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh, yeah, for sure, with the freshman pay or the
rookie pay that they get,compared to some of the NIL
deals.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
That's one of our topics today.
A big topic is the NIL marketand kind of what that means, and
for those of you that followsports and do it, I mean, you'll
know what we're talking about.
But those of you that don'tusually follow sports might be
something new.
But we're going to tie it intosome other stuff that that goes
along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
This was honestly the first year I think that I paid
this close attention to thedraft yeah, yeah and just a
little bit of interestingknowledge.
I'm sitting there watching thefirst round and I think we're
maybe 20, 25 deep, right, and Iget this text.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Beers.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No oh picks.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh, okay, picks.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay, I get this text , Danny, from yours truly over
there and he says I might havebeen 25 deep.
How many Michigan versus howmany Ohio?
State number one draft pickshave been going on so far.
And what did I text back, Luke?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You said that you were blue collar or late
bloomers or something.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
No, I said we're waiting to count at the end.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh yeah.
But then you said blue collar,we win blue collar wise.
And I said yeah, you had a bluecollar loss in there too.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
And I emphasized blue .
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You, you know, just to make sure, there was a decent
amount of iowa, and iowa statepeople that there was iowa.
There was a lot.
I mean, once you got through itI mean there was actually quite
a few, and michigan had a lotof undrafted free agents that
were.
That were there too.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But 14 ohio state buckeyes drafted in the round in
the nfl draft.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah most of Most of them, the last picks.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, they were down there a little, but it's all
right, you'll take them howeverit goes, it's all right, I think
Kansas City got one Pittsburghman, they picked up on Ohio
State, they got our quarterbackand they got, oh shoot, I think,
our running back Travion.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That's why Pittsburgh who they are, because they
waited for later on, my guys,you know.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And the other thing, then you got from back in the
day in the draft.
You know you had prime timeSanders.
Right then you got his son bouttime.
I had to throw that one inthere sorry, couldn't help.
It, couldn't help it yeah, Igotta throw it over the bow,
that's fine.
But you know, it's funny howyou talked about not watching
(03:49):
the draft as much you knowpreviously and going into it now
.
But you know the NIL thing.
You know, when it first kind ofstarted kicking up like 21, 22,
somewhere in there, it was likea $917 million that it
represented across the wholething, across the college,
across the whole thing.
But we'll, we'll step into thatfootball, college sports, okay,
(04:11):
okay.
And now it's over 1.91 billionand it'll it'll be.
You know, after this nextseason it'll it'll definitely
skyrocket over there took.
Oh, yeah, yeah her own and youknow, it's one of those things
where for years, for years andyears and years, it was one of
those things where, growing up,I was such a college sports fan
(04:35):
and I think what I clung toclung Clinged.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Clang.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think clung Clung is right Clung to was that I
thought that the game was purebecause the players played for
their school, they wanted this,they wanted that, but the pros
were getting paid.
So I kind of always just it wasnever on my big wheelhouse
thing, like I always kind ofthought of it that way.
And so then when it started tobe the idea that there were was
(05:00):
money going to change hands withthis, I have to say I was a
little taken back by it.
I was a little bit like oh, youknow, I don't know.
I mean, you're getting aneducation at a great university
somewhere You're probablygetting a quarter million dollar
education.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, I mean just that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
But I think when it came down, one time when the Fab
Five was at Michigan and ChrisWeber had a great interview and
he was walking down the streetwith Mitch Albom, who was a
great writer from back then whostill is, and he was noticing
because the Fab Five, you know,we're all over the place right,
they were.
They had his Jersey in thewindow.
Chris Weber didn't have anymoney to buy a pizza and he's
(05:37):
like look at, people are gettingmoney off of my name and my
Jersey, but I don't get any ofit.
So there's a lot of differentsides to it.
I in my jersey, but I don't getany of it.
So there's a lot of differentsides to it.
I've generally been kind ofagainst it, but I think one of
the things that opened up mymind to it just especially in
this draft because we've seenand heard this draft how many
guys like some big names whowill be getting paid less than
(06:00):
what they were making in NILmoney or even were offered in
NIL money to stay this year isthat and my son was telling me
about this was that maybe thiswill be the impetus for guys to
stay in college a little longerand finish their degree, which I
had never really thought of it,kind of like, you know, it's my
kid, what do I listen to, right?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I mean, he doesn't know anything but he kind of did
Like it was right.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So, Nathan, shout out to you.
You know so it was.
It was an interesting one and Ithink this was the first time
that I really saw that it's likesome of these guys are leaving
some money on the table.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, what was your initial reaction to NIL money?
So?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I guess I agree with a little bit what Luke said in
the beginning is that you'regoing to college for four years
and I know you're not gettingpaid, but you are getting four
years at great colleges like,let's say, michigan or iowa
state, where you're getting afour-year college degree and if
something does happen to you inthe nfl you can fall back with a
little bit of of education.
(06:56):
But now you got like caitlincaitlin clark, just for example,
who she's done with college andshe's going into her second
year and going into her firstyear she's making more money
than some of the basketballplayers that have been there for
10 years.
Yeah, so I'm sure that's got tobuild a little bit of animosity
, but I do think it takes away alittle bit from the sanctity of
college football when you'remaking, you know, three, four,
(07:19):
five million dollars before youeven get to the nfl.
Where's the actual just playingfor the game in college?
Now you're worried just as muchabout am I getting paid my
money as you are, am I actuallydoing well on the field or just
loving the game of football?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, I was forced to think about this when Maurice
Corrette was kind of he got introuble for the whole trade and
paraphernalia Ohio State Buckeyeparaphernalia for tattoos.
I'm like it's a freaking tattoo.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know seven, eight , nine, maybe, if it's a good
tattoo artist twelve, fourteenhundred bucks.
And these guys got extremelypenalized for that, you know 10,
15 years ago.
Penalized for that, you know 10, 15 years ago.
And so I got to thinking that,man, there's got to be a better
way.
Because you have these coacheswho are making millions and
(08:10):
millions of dollars you know,the school was making millions
of dollars the heads of thesedifferent leagues, you know, big
10 sec, whatever, they'remaking millions of dollars off
the backs of these athletes who,if they get hurt, it's over.
Yeah, like they're selling usedcars or something.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I think one of the things one of the things that
brings it back a little bit tohome is that stat from October
of 2024.
So just last fall.
So the one thing that that whenwe talk about NIL for those of
you who don't know, that's name,image and likeness, all right,
so that's kind of how it startedwas the idea that if you have
your name, your image, yourlikeness, if you're on a video
(08:51):
game, if they're selling jerseys, if they're doing your name,
whatever it is, because remember, like before, you couldn't buy
a collegiate football jerseywith a name on the back, right,
you could get the number, butyou couldn't get the name on the
back.
You would have to put that onyourself, right, I forgot all
(09:12):
about that, you know.
But now they do, yeah, now theydo it, but the in in last year,
the number one.
So division one, nil deals.
The average was two thousandsix hundred eighteen dollars.
Okay, so it puts it intoperspective.
Like we're hearing the big ones, right, you're hearing of the
bryce underwood who's getting10.5 million dollars at michigan
to come there.
You're hearing the big ones,right, you're hearing of the
Bryce Underwood who's getting$10.5 million at Michigan to
come there.
You're hearing big ones.
But mainly what it is is thatfor that $2,618, the average
(09:34):
total earnings of a D1 playerlast year was $23,000.
So still, even with those highends, most of them aren't making
these millions of dollars.
Okay, they're making something.
Them aren't making, you know,these millions of dollars.
Okay, they're making somethingthat's going to.
You know they can buy pizza.
You know they can put gas intheir car, they can do these
things that are there.
But I think, at some point, Ifeel like the NCAA is going to
(09:58):
have to do something with it,Because part of it, part of it
at some point.
Here is also the portal, whichis something that we want to
talk about as well.
The NIL stuff, the money.
You knew at some point it wasgoing to happen.
So really, the only rule isthat that money can't come from
the school, so it's donors, youknow.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Donors, boosters, whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I mean the guy from Michigan.
Everybody says it was ten and ahalf million dollars.
The guy that gave the money wasthe CEO of Oracle, which is
like a communication.
I mean, that's the company.
He's the one that put the moneyup.
Okay, but his money wasbasically put into the thing to
go.
But it's like he got two freecars.
(10:40):
His parents got a car, you know, he got the thing they talked
about what's the guy's name?
From Crate To get him to stay.
That was a condo right next toDoug McDermott's, like you know,
there's different ways to makethe deals look the way that they
are.
Yeah, but putting it inperspective, this is over all of
D1.
It's not just football, it'severything the interesting thing
(11:03):
, and it's there.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
The interesting stat I would like to hear is the
Power 5.
Like, what's the average amongthe Power 5?
Well, it's definitely higherbut when you say all d1, I mean
you're bringing in ohiouniversity.
You know who they.
There may be some nil moneythere, but there well think
about.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Think about it here where we live, right?
So if you look at university ofnebraska, all right, part of
where money goes, it's alwayslocation.
It's like realty, real estate,right?
Location, location, location.
So you got the guy last year, Iremember whatever that cat's
name was on the NebraskaCornhuskers football team.
His name was somehow synonymouswith heating and air
(11:44):
conditioning and that's who.
He was a spokesperson for,which is great.
So he's there in his jersey andhe's making a commercial, but
his name fit into HVAC, whichwas cool, which I think is
that's kind of how they alwaysthought that it was going to be.
Was that I can be aspokesperson, I can have a
sponsor, I can do whatever.
But I think that it's blown upfrom there to the point that who
(12:08):
is the cat that just leftschool, went to UCLA and didn't
get as much money as tennessee.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I don't remember oh, but it's, it's.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It's crazy though there has to be a cap, right
like.
So you can't leave college andhave 10 I know that might be a
crazy, you're right, that'd bethe top one percent.
But you can't even leavecollege and have nine hundred
thousand dollars that you madein four years, right.
And then you're like're like,all, right, now I'm going to the
NFL.
I'm already have a whole bunchof money already.
It kind of ruins like thesanctity of you went there for
(12:40):
four years and it was when, whenyou were a little kid and you
were like I want to go to thenational football league.
That was the top tier.
Now, if you're making that muchmoney for the good, good
players, you get done withcollege and you're like well, I
made $2 million in four years,yeah, the.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
NIL also goes into high school, okay, hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
There are states.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Well, it's still, you can.
You can make money.
Different states have somedifferent laws as to how that
works and how it looks, butthere are high school players
that are making some money.
I mean, now, they're big-nameplayers, I'm sure.
But again, think of where ourhigh school football powerhouses
are Texas, florida, california,even.
(13:24):
These places where IMG Academy,these places where these players
go, they're getting money wherewe used to say, oh the booster
know friday night lights you seeall these things right on on
movies and tv and stuff well, ifthat's the case, then look at.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
So then just think about this and this is what I'm
talking about like too muchmoney, uh, for some kids.
People can't handle that.
So what if you're given thenumber one prospect in, uh, the
united states of america goinginto college and he made
$300,000 in high school?
That's crazy.
And then what kind of personare you in college when you
(14:01):
think, heck, I already made it.
I made $300,000.
And not a lot of people have$300,000 in their bank account
as normal American.
And some 17-year-old kids arelike I'm going to college with
$300,000 in my bank account, asas normal american right, and
and some 17 year old kids likeI'm going to college with 300
grand in my bank account.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So what happens if?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
a sophomore at michigan is like, all right, I'm
making this little bit and nowmoney, but I think I can make a
little more here.
So then that goes in thetransfer portal to where I'm
going to transfer to a differentschool where I think I can make
a little more money because Imight be a better running back
at that school than I currentlyam here, and it instead of I'm
gonna wait.
I'm gonna wait one more yearand see if I can get better and
(14:38):
be the man at Michigan.
Yeah, you know what?
Nope, I'm gonna transfer overbecause they need it.
I'm gonna transfer over to theBuckeyes and make sure that I
can run there and and make alittle more money and be a
running back there.
It kind of ruins, like the, thetruth about, uh, college
football because you don't knowif someone gets drafted or if
someone goes to michigan nowthey're not going to be there in
(15:00):
four years, the way things aregoing, no one's staying in the
same school.
It kind of ruins collegefootball in that aspect where
you don't know.
It's just like the nfl.
At that point, who's going tobe aware next?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
year.
But see the way they control inthe nfl is through contracts
yeah, but that's not, that's nothappening, I know, but I think
that's where we got to go.
If in college, with nil, moneyis some type of a contract that
incentivizes a, an athlete, tostay at a place for two years or
four years or whatever, basedon well and you kind of hope,
(15:30):
like I was saying, that thatwould be the impetus for
somebody to stay?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
yeah, which would that would affect your transfer
portal issue but this is kind oflike what you said, chuck, and
it's like I think you said this,shared this with me.
It's like the grass is onlygreener where you water, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So they keep thinking, oh, it'sgoing to be better if I go over
here because I'm going to getmore money, but it doesn't
happen that way.
I think the other thing that Ifall back on with it, with that
(15:58):
portal part, which this is whereI get kind of pissed off,
because I think that the portal,I think that it's working its
way down to the point where thecommitment to the program and
playing the course of holdingthe course and going, like Danny
said, I'm going to stay anotheryear because I want to be the
(16:20):
guy.
I want to be the guy at runningback, I want to be the left
tackle, I want to be thelinebacker and that guy that's
in front of me I'm better thanhe is.
I know I can beat him out.
I know I can do it.
They get into strongcompetition.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Coaches encourage that competition by not saying
you're going to be my startingquarterback for the next four
years but I think one of thereasons we're in this spot is
because so many people havescrewed so many people over over
the years.
Like you get a coach who youknow abuses or maybe overuses a
particular athlete and islooking at the w's of his, of
(16:56):
his program instead of lookingout for the health of that
particular player and yeah, Iagree.
You know what I'm saying, Iagree and so you know, you have
these things that have gone onover the years and you, you know
it causes that mindset.
Well, I'm going to get minewhen I can.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think that's more of a high school problem than a
college problem.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think it's a you look at.
In my opinion, you look at RG3.
Yeah, rg3 out of Baylor.
The way he was treated I thinkat Washington overused, ended up
getting injured you know, whatI'm saying.
And they didn't care anythingabout his health.
(17:35):
Honestly, it didn't seem likeit, and now he's out of the
league and can't play anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But what's he doing?
He was an announcer.
He's an announcer.
He's not hurting, he's not likeyou know, he ain't selling
these cars.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
You look at the money he makes some great suits too.
You look at the money he couldhave made over a career.
It definitely impacted hislivelihood.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
But I think that it does still take away.
I mean, I hear what you'resaying and I think that there
definitely have been coaches andpeople over time that have
taken the athlete and their bestinterest and put it on the back
burner as opposed to just I'mgoing to, I want to win, or I
want to do this or whatever itis.
We've all seen instances ofthat over the years, but I still
(18:18):
think that, Danny, you've usedthis word twice tonight and I
love it just because you said itwas the sanctity of the game.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I'm a vocalist.
All right, you're a linguist.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
You're a linguist, danny, uh, and I've never said
that before, so that's okay.
So I I'm not discounting theplayers, but I, I, I fear for
the idea that we play into theirdreams, their whatever they've
thought about, dreamed aboutlike like playing here or doing
(18:52):
this, whatever.
Hey, come here, kid, and dothis, you know whatever it is.
And they're already committedto somebody else and they say
you know what?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I'm leaving, I'm gonna go there that's where I
think contracts have to comeinto play, because I think
there's going to be a payoff andan interest for both parties.
Let's think about it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
but think, chuck, what is the real thing?
Like, I think we've all said iton some level, but the idea is
that you're going to college fora degree for free.
You're getting a four-yearcollege degree from a D1 school.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
That's not necessarily.
I don't think that's what theseathletes necessarily are going
to college for.
Yeah, but that's, but isn'tthat the?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
It's a stepping.
It's a stepping stone that youhave to do.
You're not, you're not goingfrom high school to the NFL,
obviously.
So it's a stepping stone.
So you have to.
(19:55):
I don't mean fall in line, butkind of fall in line and do what
you're supposed to do and notmake a bunch of money because
you know that's on the back end.
So not to cut you off, but soalso, what does that do for
coaching?
So think about just going backto what luke said and then not
just for a minute here at highschool, if some high school
let's say, the best person, bestquarterback in high school,
started making his junior year50 grand and his senior year
$100,000.
And the coach was like you'vegot to do this, coach.
I'm making $100,000 a year.
(20:15):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
You make $10,000 a year Because we've seen it at
the college level already.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, you see it at the pro level and I was going
from that, like the high schoollevel.
You have kids like what are youtalking about Going to the
college level?
I'm sure it's hard at thecollege level for coaches to be
like, listen, hey, luke, youmissed that.
You missed that block bud.
If you miss that block again,we might, we might have to look
at someone else.
Well, that's fine, I'll gosomewhere else where they're not
(20:41):
going to do that to me.
So that's what scares me aboutthis money to where some kids
are going to get a little toomuch.
I money to where some kids aregoing to get a little too much.
I'll do whatever I want and ifyou don't like what I'm doing
and I don't like what you'redoing, I'll just go somewhere
else.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I think there's checks and I think we saw it in
the draft.
I think there's checks in thesystem for that type of
arrogance Like maybe you shoulddo what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We definitely saw that, but think about that for a
second.
Let's focus on it just for asecond because we don't want to
take too much time on it.
But the idea is, and if youtalk to anybody, especially Mel
Kiper Jr, who's probably goingto get axed from ESPN for all
his rants, but the idea is, youlook at him as a quarterback.
We're going too far into sportshere, folks.
I know Great quarterback, greatathlete, does his thing.
(21:25):
But when you look atquarterbacks, holds the ball too
long, throws balls that heshouldn't, leaves a lot on the
table.
He doesn't take the passes theeasy ones that he should,
doesn't take his checks, doeshis thing.
They see that.
But they ranked him high.
I think personally just mypersonal opinion this is not
factual of any sort, even thoughusually what I say is golden.
(21:48):
But the idea is that I thinkthey ranked him too high to
start with and they're they'reretiring his number for a 500
record and something.
It's.
It's crazy to me, but kids seethat and, like you said, they're
not going to college for thedegree.
Right, like you said, they'regoing to get themselves out of a
situation.
(22:08):
It's like a minor leaguebaseball.
But the idea is is that I thinkthat's where we have failed, as
either parents or educators oras coaches, to say look at
what's going on here, becauseyou are one hit away from your
career being done, but if you goto this school and your
sophomore year you blow yourknee out, you're still going to
(22:31):
get your education becausethey're going to honor it.
You've got a four-yearscholarship.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
You're going to get it and you're still going to be
a winner, but the way it's setup is with the NIL money,
they'll also get their money.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Well, I understand that, and that's what I'm saying
is that I think that theemphasis still needs to be on
the importance of what they arereceiving besides the NL.
I mean, that's the thing.
Now I've got guys, players,athletes, student athletes.
Student athletes Agreed we haveto keep saying it and we
(23:05):
stopped saying it a while ago.
I still struggle sometimes atschool, like I have to say that
and that you have to.
You are a student first.
You're an athlete second.
okay, right now, I'm not sayingthat the athlete part isn't
putting food on the table.
I'm not saying that.
But the idea is is that withthe athlete part your window
could break any day.
(23:27):
And you know what, if you don'teven have a piece of wood to
put over the window, you'rescrewed yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So here, in theory, let's talk in theory.
Right, in theory.
If a kid student athlete goesto one of these power five gets
a mega nil deal.
They've got the money.
They get their knee blown out.
Sophomore year, their career'sfinished, they still got the
money.
They get their knee blown out.
Sophomore year, their career'sfinished, they still got the
money.
Career as a football player,career as a football player.
(23:53):
But they would still have themoney to come back and get that
education.
They don't need a scholarshipat that point because they got
the money to pay for theeducation.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
But I guess what the thing is with me, Chuck, is that
, and I hear what you're saying,but the idea would be is that
if it wasn't placed as importantfor them before the fact, what,
all of a sudden, is going tomake it important after it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
But we've created this mechanism by putting all of
this money into it and notallowing any of these players to
get access to that money.
We tell them they're collegekids?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, I know how many other college kids.
They're college kids.
Yeah, I know how many othercollege kids.
So what about the college kid?
That's not to degrade whatyou're saying, but what about
the college kid that's a supersmart kid at Harvard and he
graduates from college and thenbecomes some dude at NASA, or
some dude that does somethinggreat and invents a great thing.
(24:47):
Some dude that works, doessomething great and invents a
great thing?
How?
We're not talking about givinghim millions of dollars?
Uh, because he's working andgoing to work at nasa.
How many times have?
Hey, you're going to be a nasaworker, so here's all this money
so you can be smart and try andwhat.
What makes an athlete soimportant that he gets because
of the?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
money that the schools and the industry of
athletics is making off of hisname and his ability to play.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think that's what makes him unique.
I mean, I hear you, but it's aslippery slope because I would
back that up to say that theidea is that if you have I mean
Danny, put it nicely if you'vegot a brainiac, a kid who's just
off the charts, and let's sayhe's in whatever it is, cares
cancer.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
How come he doesn't get it the idea?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
is that they are still in these schools, a lot of
them.
They're still making money offthe research and things that are
based on what maybe this kid intheir department in biology or
whatever it's in are making offof the backs of the kids that
are doing the research and doingtheir thesis and all this stuff
and figuring stuff out.
(25:52):
It's different money, don't getme wrong.
I'm not saying but still, it'sthe idea that I think, and the
one thing that you said, chuck,that I do agree on, is that
we've put this into place.
I don't mean like me and you.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I mean that just in general, but you guys don't have
the money to put it.
I definitely haven't.
I need a gallon of urethane ifanybody has one for me.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
But the idea is that I think that we've made it less
important, we've downplayed theimportance of what that
education does for you and whatit can do for you.
All right, and I know thateverybody's not a four-year
college guy Like I get it yeah,some guys you know, or trade
school guys, there's all sortsof you know avenues for people
(26:39):
to go, but I don't want to evercause this is what we're in.
We're in education.
The idea is is that, listen,we're here to make sure that you
have a future that's solid foryou and your family, for you,
for everybody.
Okay, the athletics part mightbump your bank account up and
you can do something with it andthat's great, but you know what
(27:02):
that money's going to run out?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Here's a thought.
Here's a thought.
So you have this high schooloutstanding athlete number one,
rated uh, in the in the country,right?
So you have this kid whodoesn't know much about finances
, doesn't know how the bills arepaid, because he's just not
lived in that world, but we'retelling him to go to a school
(27:25):
and to be happy with a I don'tknow 400, $400,000.
Let's say it's $400,000education, depending upon where
you go.
$250,000, $400,000, half amillion, whatever.
Be happy with that.
All the meanwhile there's theschool and all of these other
people that are makingmulti-millions of dollars by
(27:45):
putting him on the screen everySaturday and him playing lights
out, is that?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
fair and again, I'm not disagreeing with you.
I just think that we've said ita couple times there needs to
be some sort of a cap.
There needs to be some sort ofa thing that says, hey, we
completely understand that youare helping us with our
financial goals to provideprograms for our whole school.
Okay, so we're going to giveyou this, we're going to give
(28:15):
you X amount or whatever it is.
Or we have a donor that's goingto give you X amount, whether
that's a hundred thousanddollars, whether it's two or
whatever it is.
I don't know what the number is.
I'm not here to argue thenumber.
It's just the idea to say and Idon't disagree with you at all,
I really don't it's just theidea that it needs to be
something where it's not thewild, wild west.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, a ridiculous amount of money.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Because that takes away what you know.
Just five years ago, beforethis really got into it,
everybody was talking aboutbecause of scholarships and
everything else there was parity.
Coming back to college football, that's going to go away again.
Yeah, Look at the Power Fivealready.
Look at, the Power Five isalready miles ahead.
(29:01):
Look at the SEC Everybody isjust miles ahead of these other
D1 schools.
Yeah, they're miles ahead.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And the idea is that we can't, and I think it's a bad
lesson for kids, because it'slike whoever's got the more
money wins.
That's really what it comesdown to, which is not a great
lesson to teach kids.
I don't think, because ifyou're ever in the spot where
you don't have the most money,well, what am I going to do now?
I don't know what else to do.
I don't know what else to do.
(29:35):
I don't have anything else.
I don't know anything else.
I don't know another way, youknow.
I mean, like you, look at someof the it happens in
entertainment.
Look at the kids who were childactor stars.
Right, it's the same thing.
They grew up in that lifestylewhere they were like the g and
they knew once they got old andthey don't look the part anymore
into the curb yeah, I mean,what do you do?
And you hate that.
College athletes might go thatway and I love the idea, even
though half of them I turn thevolume off when I do it.
(29:56):
But the guys and women that dothese sports that then become
announcers some of them I lovebecause you can tell they have
the passion for the sport andthey know what they're talking
about.
Other ones because you can tellthey have the passion for the
sport and they know what they'retalking about.
Other ones you can tell whenthey talk there's a kid with a
journalism degree that could dobetter than they are Sure you
(30:18):
know what I mean, yeah.
And you all know who thosepeople are.
And I turn the volume down andturn the radio on when those
guys are right.
I just, I just can't handle it.
But I think my concern is mostof it.
Are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Tony Romo Maybe.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, he's a horrible guy.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
No, I'm kidding, I think that.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
We can edit that out.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
No, we're leaving that one.
I think that it's more of thething for me as it trickles down
, because everything tricklesdown just like it did when we
were kids.
People saw things that Jordandid.
Whoever like the shorts,everything happens right.
All these things that trickledown and kids see it and it's
like you know what?
Right now you're in high schoolfootball, you're in friday
(31:01):
night lights.
This is your opportunity tojust shine, have fun with your
friends and get out there and doit and work your butts off.
Whether you're playingvolleyball, whether you're
running cross country, whateverit is, you're playing tennis.
All these kids that we see atour school doing this stuff.
It's like guess what?
This is your shot right here.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And we still want them to think that Right, we
still want them to have thedream that says hey, you know
what I could be, that I could dothat.
Great, then work your butt offto get there.
Don't wait for the handout.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Don't wait for the handout.
It goes right back to what Isaid at the beginning of this
the guard at Michigan who's an11th grader.
He's like next year I'mstarting, yeah, but if we, no,
I'm not going to try and beatChuck out for the guard position
.
I'm going to go to a differentschool where I know I'm going to
play what happened to beatingChuck out or beating Luke.
(31:55):
I'm going to beat Luke out thisyear and I'm going to be the
starting guy.
But see what you said there isthat.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Why do they think in the first place that they're
going to go over here to thisschool and be the starter?
It's because somebody told themyes, some coaches, a bunch of
you know what.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And then they get there and they're like well hey,
that out yeah, I was.
You ain't.
You ain't starting, but you'llbe good.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Second string yeah, that's just how it works.
I mean, we've all seen kidsthat have gone to another school
and have watched from thesideline one.
They could have been in ourschool playing every friday
night doing their thing, havinga great time, making lifetime
memories with their buddies,right like you know, all of us
have those memories, right ofyou know.
(32:36):
Chuck showed me pictures.
We've all seen that stuff.
That's what it's about, yeah,is that you know what?
I was with my buddies and we.
We did this and we did this andyou know what?
Maybe you weren't nationalchampions or you weren't,
whatever it was.
The idea is is that you workedyour butt off.
You accomplished something,yeah, and you made yourself a
better person because of it yeah, I mean, that's really what it
(32:58):
is.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, and the beauty of high school football
particularly um for most peopleout there, for most football
players out there are is is thememories right yeah the fun,
yeah like luke was talking.
You know, I remember playingfootball with you know, marco
coleman and william cool, willmckinney and lorenzo redman and
keenan early and all those guys,man, we had an incredible time
(33:23):
playing high school football.
You know, and I think some ofthese other things, for maybe
some of the elite athletes cankind of cloud, yep that issue
like the the real life fun of it.
Yeah but I just wonder if wehave to like, if we're reacting
to something when you talk aboutin a in our own high school, if
we're reacting to somethingthat maybe I don't know if we'll
(33:45):
see in our context or not.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
As is normally the case.
You know, we come up with aquote, I come up with something,
and I think I struggled with ita little bit because there's so
many that are there.
But desire is the key tomotivation.
But it's determination andcommitment to an unrelenting
pursuit of your goal.
It's a commitment to excellencethat will enable you to attain
(34:12):
the success you seek.
So, whether that player is justbent on the money or making
their family in a betterposition, whatever that is, it's
still about the hard work, it'sstill about the commitment and
that pursuit of excellence thatdoes it.
It's not just hey, that guy ofexcellence that does it.
It's not just hey, that guyover there said I can do better
(34:33):
or I can make more, or I can youknow?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Okay.
The idea is is to accept what'sin front of you, take it as an
opportunity, work your butt offand show everybody around that
you're good enough to do it andto show yourself.
You know, we see a lot ofpeople that don't have that
self-esteem right.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Maybe they have a lower self-esteem or they don't
think well about themselves, butyou know that's a huge builder
for themselves.
Yeah, I mean, the fact that Iplayed some college football to
me is a great thing in my life.
It's like hey there's a lot ofpeople that don't do that that
got the opportunity and I,luckily, was blessed to get the
opportunity Came from hard work.
I mean, one of my collegecoaches said you're not at all
(35:15):
one of the best athletes I'veever seen, but you work hard.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You're a hard worker, you know it's just.
That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
And I think that that quote, even from him, stuck
with me because it's like youdon't have to be the best Hard
work.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
mediocrity outlast and will outdo lazy talent any
day of the week.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Look at this guy.
Hey, don't you talk to me likethat coach.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Hey, you know what Danny thanks for being here
today.
You're the best.
I mean.
We'll put you on the list tocome back.
Chuck appreciate it.
You know, john, we missed you,but you know what Hope you're
feeling better, we'll have youback.
We'll be ready to go.
Great time today.
Fun, fun.
It was a little different topicbut it was good.
We like it.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
We talk about anything.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, you guys are okay.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
He's a good guy.
He's not half century, but he'sclose.
Yeah, he's close.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Half century.
I would assume you tookadvanced math, didn't you
getting?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
out of here.
We'll see you guys later nexttime we get together to hang out
, peace out.
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