E46 -Enough: Finding Peace in a World of Distractions, Hustle, and Expectations with Barbara Burgess

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey friend, welcome to the halfway to dead podcast.
I'm your host, jen Lovell.
Listen, you and I have reachedthat age where we are done with
the bullshit.
We know that midlife is ourchance to flip the script and
experience life on our own terms.
It's time to reconnect with ourhigher selves and reclaim our
inner peace.
Are you ready with an openheart and an open mind?

(00:26):
Awesome, you're in the rightplace.
Hop in and ride shotgun with meon this midlife spiritual
journey.
Hey, hey, friends, welcome back.
Today I interview BarbaraBurgess.
She's an author, mother,executive and unapologetic dark
chocolate lover who's embracedthe beautiful messiness of life.

(00:47):
She founded Corluma, aChicago-based consulting firm,
wrote and performed a one-womanshow, the Extraordinary
Experience of being Ordinary andmost recently wrote her first
book Enough, finding Peace in aWorld of Distractions, hustle
and Expectation.
Barbara's known for her humor,vulnerability and practical
wisdom.
She shares some simple shiftsto help people remember they are

(01:10):
enough and have enough.
And don't we need that here inmidlife?
She's a midlifer, like us, bythe way, you guys.
Her ego is also kept in healthycheck by two teenage children
and career adventures thatinclude selling candy bars for
Nestle Foods, launching Graingerinto internet commerce, a brief
marketing stint at the ChicagoMercantile Exchange and most

(01:30):
recently overseeing operations,marketing and finances as the
COO of a nonprofit.
Like all of us, barbara saysshe's still figuring it out.
Barbara and I, basically we talkabout the book, her book Enough
, and here's what we go over.
I think these are tips for allof us.
It doesn't matter if you'regoing to bring this back into
your job, your personal life,whatever.

(01:51):
We talk about setting beautifulboundaries with zero apologies.
We talk about the secret powerof the small no's right, our
no's and our yes's and how itcan get us in a little pinch
when we're not doing enough ofthose no's.
We talk about what she callsbulletproof grace handling toxic

(02:13):
people by staying in yourenergy lane.
We talk a lot about staying inour own energy lane and what
that looks like.
We also talk a little bit abouthow we need to slow down to the
speed of life so that we don'tmiss all these really cool
things happening around us.
It's a really good one, youguys.
Her book it's a short read, it'sa good read.
I find it I say in the episodeI find it very age appropriate

(02:33):
for us midlifers.
So let's get into it, becauseI'm excited to share everything
that Barbara had to say today.
I learned a lot from her.
All right, let's jump in.
Hey Barbara.
Thanks for being here with metoday.
Thanks, lot from her.
All right, let's jump in, heyBarbara, thanks for being here
with me today.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Thanks, Jen.
It's amazing to be here and bewith you.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
I haven't told her about your book and everything,
but let's talk about thisbecause, you guys, her book is
called Enough Finding Peace in aWorld of Distractions, Hustle
and Expectations, and I foundthis book to be very age
appropriate for us midlifers,maybe because that's the place
I'm at.
That's because you're here,you're in the trenches with us,
so you know the things.

(03:07):
It's called enough.
We talk a lot about enough andnot enough in the book and to me
they felt like people right andthey were.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
They were and are people to me.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
They are, so yes, yes , you think of them as people.
I think of a lot of things aspeople, so it worked for me.
But to be enough was like I wasthinking about a scenario where
enough is like that friend atthe party You're excited they're
there.
Everything's better when you'refeeling enough around you,
right.
When your friend enough isthere, and then not enough felt

(03:36):
like that friend that you knowthey're going to show up at the
party, right, it's inevitablethey're coming and you kind of
feel like they're your friend,like we've all just learned to
deal with them.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, we tolerate.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
We tolerate that we tolerate and we know how to act
when they're around right, andto get you know to the other
side of the room at the party.
Like to get back to enough.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, we got to get back to our other, and they're
going to keep showing up at theparty.
Yes, they're always going to bethere, so I can't pretend
they're not there.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
No, we got to deal with both.
We got to deal with both kindsof friends.
So for me that's kind of whatit felt like when you were
writing this book.
You talk about embracing thebeautiful messiness of life.
So what was your messiness anddid it lead you to this book?
Is that how we got here?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well, it's one of the things that got me here, but
for me, you know the thing, andI think this is such a midlife
wake up call for a lot of folks,but for me, being real, is it
right?
And so I'm a late in life momand so, despite the fact I'm in
my mid 50s, I have a 16 year oldand a 14 year old.
And I remember this from youknow, taking them to school

(04:42):
there in a you know kind ofprivate school, and there was
this whole kind of way of beingof like everything's great,
we're great, I'm a yoga mom inmy pants and we're at the
dropout.
You know all these places andyou're the poster child mom.
Yeah, yeah, but I was not right.
Like I don't fit the profile.
Okay, so you know I willsqueeze my legs into those
things, but it's not comfortableand natural.

(05:06):
But it bothered me that itwasn't real right.
And so people would ask me youknow well how's it going with
you know, blah, blah, blah withyour kid, and I'm like not well,
Not great.
I would start saying the truth,right, rather than putting on
the face or bragging about thethings.
And I was blown away by whatcame back, in the sense that

(05:28):
then you would hear what'sreally going on with folks.
It was like, oh my gosh, oh,you did that.
Well, I have where before therewas this whole facade Right.
So I think in some ways theroots of the beautiful mess go
way back, because I started todiscover like, yeah, that whole
thing of pretending you have itall together is just crap, it
doesn't work, it doesn't serve.
Right and I never get to benourished being with humans,

(05:51):
because they feel like they haveto put up that face around me
as well.
So I think, in some ways, theorigins of that messiness, like
there was a point at which andagain, maybe it's because you're
at your wit's end as a mother-and all that you know you have
all the things you're juggling,but it was like I had made some
choices to drop that facade, sohonoring that messiness became
part of what I did.

(06:12):
Like you know, part of myauthentic signature is like I
don't know.
This is what's working.
This is where I'm throwing upat myself right now.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, here it all is, because you've got instances in
your book about this wholemotherhood thing too.
Yeah, yeah, it's a struggle forall of us?

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yep, but I think some of it came that way.
You know that was always around.
But then I think you know thisexperience I started having that
became the book was reallyafter leaving a job I had been
at 20 years.
That ended up being fairlytoxic, like there was a lot of
things and all of a sudden therewas this space to like, look at

(06:47):
things in a different way,right.
And so this messiness, you know, it's just humanity, it's just
part of what we're doing, it'spart of the thing and it's part
of the beauty, right.
And so, you know, recognizingholy cow, I've just been racing
through things with some pseudosense of what it means to
achieve, missing all the goodstuff.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Okay, so what age were you when this kind of was
like coming up really strong foryou?

Speaker 2 (07:13):
What age was that?
I would say the messiness, likeembracing the messiness.
So you know I was probablymid-40s, okay, yeah, mid to late
40s.
The sense you know.
Even though I was embracing themessiness, there was still a
lot of not enough in my life.
He was still knocking on thedoor quite strongly, but the
enough piece has been in thelast three years, three and a

(07:35):
half years, four years, thatthat kind of counteracting part
came to play.
So yeah, the seeds were wayback there for the making.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
But yeah, because it's true, in midlife we've
struggled this whole time,because I'm in my 50s too and
we've struggled the whole timewith am I enough, am I doing
enough, am I enough?
And every yes, whether it's ourcareer, our parenting, our
friendships, our partnerships,like whatever we got going on,
we were always trying to beenough and we kind of scoot what

(08:06):
we want to the side the wholetime.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, and thinking somehow I feel like it is one of
those like where the goalpostis always moving to.
Right so you get to a certainplace and you think, well, if I
get this, then this will beenough.
And it's not just money andfinancial achievements, but like
if my kids get into the highschool, if the like, then then,
then then I can rest and bemyself and enjoy myself.
No, the, you know.

(08:30):
I think the trickiness of thenot enough piece is it is never
there, like when you're chasingit.
That way you never get to whereyou're going, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Oh, geez, Okay.
So let's because you talk a lotabout in the book, about how
you get on this path stay onthis path, make yourself enough
more often than not enough.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
That's kind of where we go with this no's and the big
no's, the small yeses, the bigyeses, those kinds of things.
So I have listen, we're going topage 59 now, everybody.
You're going to read this wholebook, everyone.

(09:17):
But I'm going to page 59.
And okay, so here's what she'sgot in her book.
You guys, if we do not learnhow to honor the small no's, we
can easily drown in the smallyeses.
Yes, I'll go to that networkingevent I don't want to attend.
Yes, I'll drop that off for you.
Yes, I'll store that hideousfamily tchotchke disguised as an
heirloom until you die.
Yes, I'll graciously accept thefree book I never intended to
read because it came with thecost of my event ticket.

(09:40):
So listen, I know you guyslistening out there have your
own set of like a bunch ofstupid yeses and no's, right,
especially the yeses.
Oh, we can get buried in them.
Oh, I've buried myself hard inthe yeses before.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Hard, so hard.
You know it is like the deathby a thousand paper cuts, right,
but it is again.
And you'll get it like I giggleto myself listening to it
because, like, this is just mylife.
Nothing about this is made upand hypothetical, right, like
here we are living in all of it.
But that was the thing Istarted to learn as I started to
create boundaries, right, andagain, there's plenty of you

(10:14):
know books and things out thereabout it, but you know, living
that's a different thing, right,yeah, it's like all right, I
get this hypothetical concept, Iget the psychological
perspective behind it, but toactually do it in friends you
know friendships and inrelationships and with other
people in your life and thingslike that, is a whole nother
game, right.
And so, as I started to makethese distinctions, I couldn't

(10:34):
believe it was literally likesomebody peeled off the veil in
front of my eyes to realize howmuch I was saying yes to that
was not a yes, it just wasn'tright.
It was because I thought Ishould, because you expect me to
, because I've always done thatright.
And those are like those smallno's and all of a sudden, every

(10:56):
single one.
There's less space, you know.
I don't even have the moment tobreathe and say what do I feel?
What do I think?
Because, before I've evenrealized that, those words have
escaped my lips.
It's literally like they'veleapt out before I've had a
moment to think.
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yes, because we were so trained to say yes and help
everybody we can possibly helpin this world, right?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Except ourselves.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
We don't do that, but we'll help everybody else.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, and that ties to that section of the book that
again, and I will say so, Iwrote this book.
I'm a co-voyager, right, I amnot a believer in thought
leaders or experts.
I'm just not, because to me,that's the person that stopped
journeying and self-reflecting.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, we always have stuff to learn.
We're on it, right?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, and so I kind of have joked with some of my
friends that I wrote the bookand it was there to be the
beginning of my teaching.
You know it's not because, oh,I got this.
All.
It was like oh honey, here areyour lessons, right.
So it's constantly in my face.
I kind of laugh about it.
But but in that place of thesmall no's and the small yes's,
it was like when I peeled backthat veil and started to do it,

(12:00):
realizing how many choices I wasmaking on a day-to-day basis
and understanding the discomfortof that.
And there's a section in thebook where I talk about saving
versus serving.
Yes, right, and this is likehello, welcome to my life.
And you just described it is oh, I'm going to do that for
everybody else, because I wasunder this illusion that that

(12:20):
was serving and I love tocontribute to the planet, like I
hope that's what I'm here forAt the end of days.
I hope you know that.
It's like hey, did you enjoy it?
How'd it go for?
you Did, you love your serving,but that's very different than
saving or help, you know, doingthese things because and I think

(12:40):
that place where we say yes, alot of times we think it's
service, and I think that placewhere we say yes, a lot of times
we think it's service, right,we think, oh, this is how I
contribute to the planet is Iwill take grandma's tchotchke,
I'll attend your event I don'twant to go to, I'll do all these
things.
That is not serving, you know,because, again, I think,
particularly as women and atthis midlife moment, to realize

(13:01):
no serving is like a radicaltuning into ourselves, in a way.
No one taught us.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
That's what serving is.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, Because as we do that it is that old metaphor
but our cup overflows andthere's more for everybody else.
But if we can't do that,there's never enough in the cup
to overflow, Right?

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Correct.
Yeah, we don't have time foranybody else's stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, yes, but it's, it's so.
I think it's so, contrary tohow you know later and the rest
of the time and when you have toactually go to that event or do

(13:49):
that thing.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
You're like what have I done and how do I get out of
this now?

Speaker 2 (13:53):
And it's like it is a dopamine hit, right, it is a
drug.
Yeah, you get that.
Yeah, and I love that metaphorbecause let's like, first one's
free, right, right, I got mylittle hit, I got my little hit.
But then we're literally givingmore and more of ourselves to
try to recreate that hit.
Yeah, we got to, and I thinkthat, yeah, we got to retrain
ourselves in this life BetweenTo a different dopamine hit.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
We got to get our hits Well In a whole different
place, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
And what is it to get ?
That you know kind of immediatesatisfaction versus what I'm
beginning to experience now and,by the way, I may cry, I get
moved by stuff.
So I'm like thinking about likethere's a gift in my life right
now of a not that dopamine hitLike and it's not all the time
right, I'm not perfect, but youknow, this morning I listened to

(14:41):
some sweet music as I got ready.
Yeah, I have this lovely, youknow cup of sweet herbal teas
sitting here right, I'm takingcare of myself in a way that is
not that generic.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh self-care, let's like jam this other to-do list
in that I'm supposed to be doingno.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, no, but it's a sense of being like deeply tuned
into my body.
What I need, you know in thismoment for what it is, and that
is not the dopamine hit.
No, it's something that allowsme to literally like I feel like
I relax into my bones and I'mmore available because I'm clear
.
So, I can easily say oh, mydaughter needs something.
I can easily say no or I caneasily say yes, because I'm

(15:20):
clear, because I'm not in thatlike cycle, the drug cycle.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Oh, and the teenagers , oh Lord.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
That's no, that's a journey.
It's a journey, you know, andthis is what I laugh at
hilariously.
I'm like, okay, whatever partof me thought oh, you know, I'll
have my kids later so I can domenopause and teenagers Like are
you kidding me?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Let's just all have effed up hormones at the same
time.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
At the same time.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
At the same time.
Let's throw it all in the mix.
You're going to have too much,I'm going to have not enough.
It's going to be great, isn'tit guys?
Oh geez, Louise, You're doing agood job, Barbara.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Thank you.
You're doing a long day, but atthe end of that flight second
flight, third flight, I guess itwas there was a young mom in
front of me whose child was justscreaming and everybody had
been sitting on the tarmac forfour hours, right, but they're

(16:16):
all looking at her like whycan't you?
You know, yeah, get your kidtogether.
And you're like OK, it's a baby.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
You don't get them together and it's not possible.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
I don't care if you've been in those shoes,
right and it just you know.
I felt, I so felt for her andwe got off the plane and she had
her mom there, but she was ayounger mom and so her mom was
my age.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
The grandma was my age-ish.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
And we were getting off and I just said to her
listen, you're an amazing mother.
And she just you know tears?

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, because she did that enough.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
And even her mom started tearing up a little bit
and I said no, no, no, no, Ijust like that.
You just made it through thatflight Right, like you have
these moments like that.
You're still vertical.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
We should be having a band party?
Yeah, no, because that's farmore stressful for the mom than
the rest of us sitting therewatching.
And I think you even said inthe book you had thought about
do I help and try and hold thebaby for her?
But at that point that's notgoing to help her either way,
because probably it's not goingto work, because you're a
stranger and also she's going tofeel like everyone thinks she's

(17:19):
inadequate.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, Well, if it did work, she'd feel inadequate.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
And that's what I thought about.
So you were stuck either way.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, you're stuck and so like to me.
In those moments I just sendenergy and pray.
I'm like angels surround her,you know whatever she needs to
do like calm her system, becausethat's what I feel like the
best I could do at that moment.
Yeah, but I think to that pointand again, it's not even just
you know, parents, but all of usthere's so much more that we're
juggling than an outsiderwalking by can ever know.

(17:47):
And I think that's our part ofour job is just to come from it.
You know, as we increasinglyget in touch with our friend
enough to understand, like makespace for other people too.
You know we're just humanstrying to do this thing and it's
hard.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I always say we got to give people a little more
grace these days.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yes, because we don't know what's going on with them.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
They don't know what's going on with us for the
most part yeah.
So are there small shifts orthings we can do for the people
listening right now who are likeyes, women still, yes, women,
they're still committing to waytoo much.
Are there little shifts andthings we can do to make it
easier to just realize that nois a complete sentence?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, well, to me, I think, the biggest first thing
is really just noticing, right,and that's where checking out,
like where am I doing the smallyeses?
Because otherwise, for me, itwasn't until I started writing
about it that became so obvious.
And my number one thing hasbeen tuning into my body.
And you know, I think sometimeswe think, well, our bodies have

(18:49):
to look a certain way, be acertain size, like no, no, no,
no, no.
They are freaking wiseinstruments, right, and it's not
some you know woo-woo genericthing.
I just taught an emotionalintelligence class last week.
It was two full days online andI always try to refresh myself
on the research that's out there, and so, like you and I will

(19:11):
know this innately, but theresearch shows that our body
gets the signal on what'shappening before our cognition
does by two to three secondsright.
So that's going on, and thereare certain research studies
that are showing that theintelligence that we get from
that body sensation is moreaccurate than what hits our head
.
So here we are, having beenlearned to tune into our heads

(19:33):
and our logical thinking and allthis kind of stuff, when we
have all literal data cominginto our bodies that we have
learned to ignore.
I'm somebody that lived fromthe neck up for a good long time
.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
And then, once you get back in your body, you're
like all right, but how doesthis actually make me feel?
Because I'm sure saying here'swhat happened to me.
I was in this is still when Iwas yessing, but I was running a
business, working full time,raising three children, all the
things still making sure peoplehad clean, fricking clothes and
food in their mouths.

(20:04):
Just that alone is a full-timejob.
Yeah, Anyway doing all that andI had someone come to me.
One of my kids was in theaterand they said will you design
and help do all the sets?
And we're not talking about athird grade school play here,
we're talking about a production.
And I was like sure I will, yes, I will.
And that was like sure I will,yes, I will.

(20:25):
And that was heavily thehardest six months of my life.
All of a sudden I was like whathave I done?
Because you assume all theother parents are going to get
on board and help too.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
No, they're not.
They learned how to say no.
Equal distribution of labor no.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
And I was so mad at those women back then I was like
, wait a minute, why aren't youhere painting this damn fence
with me?
No, because they had alreadylearned to say no, I was the
dumb one.
Yes, In hindsight I'm like Iwas the one.
I was looking around judgingall the other parents like
where's your ass?
We should be building this setfor our kids.
And they were like no, that wasyour dumb.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
yes, we're not getting on board with that.
We're not going to join you.
We're not jumping on board withthat.
We're not going to join you.
No, we're not jumping onto thatbandwagon.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
So I just had to bury myself and, you know, not sleep
for a while, but no, so thesethings get learned.
But okay, so someone's coming.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, and to your point about that, like you know
what I'm curious about formyself because again I have, you
know, my equally like dozens ofstories about that as well.
Oh yeah, crack between thatstimulus and response.
It's like, literally, let mehave one beat, one breath to
actually consider and that's, bythe way I always talk about
with my coaching clients pocketphrases.

(21:31):
Imagine you have a phrase andyou can just pull the paper out
of your pocket that says youknow, thanks for asking.
Let me think about that.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Right, I have a quick response.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, Pocket phrases, so that you can give yourself
the permission to actuallylisten to yourself, including
your body, and see if it's right.
Because you wonder at thatmoment if we could go back and
we had you hooked up to all themachines and we could monitor.
I wonder what your stomach did.
I wonder what your heartbeatdid it all told me.
No, I'm sure of it.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
And my head said yes.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know better Don't go down, don't go into the
basement.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
But my head was saying we're so flattered you
did this.
We're so flattered.
You asked Me, little old me,you noticed how creative I am.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I'm so special I could handle that.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
And then I was like what have I done?
No, so if I had my pocketphrase back then, that would
have saved me.
But so, yeah, because I like tosay to people now, back then
that would have saved me.
But so, yeah, because I like tosay to people now, because I
don't do that anymore, I do theno's now.
But I'll say I love the wholesound of everything you just
said.
Like, if someone's like comingup with a big idea, I'm like no,
I love the sound of all thatfor you, like I love it.

(22:36):
I don't know if I have thespace for it right now.
Can I think on it?
Or you know what I mean.
Like, let me get back to you.
Yeah, let me just see.
I had someone just as fastbecause we can say so, how busy
are you?
And I knew something might becoming.
So how busy are you right now?
And I said real busy.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
But, by the way, can we just pause that?
To me that, like that phraseitself, has a certain level of
unintended intrusion.
Shall we say?
So if we go back to boundaries?
Right, it isn't my business toknow your busyness Exactly.
Yeah, I mean, that is not so inthe book.
I talk about your energy lane,right?

(23:15):
So somebody just invited you outof your energy lane.
They were like oh, come overhere to tell me about your
schedule, you know, and I loveyour response and a good
response to be like I'm sorry,can you help me understand what
you're getting at?
And again, my translation wouldbe what the hell entitled you
to ask about how busy I am?
And I don't mean, they mean itthat way, it's always goodwill.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
No, I don't think that, and this person was
younger, she hasn't learned thethings yet, so you give some
grace.
But I was just like real busy.
Why, what's going on?
What are you saying?
What do you need?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
And my pocket phrase is yeah, always real busy,
Always real busy.
And what are you interested in?

Speaker 1 (23:52):
State your desire, but what are you saying?
What do you want?
Yeah, because you know that weall do make room for the things
that fill our cup and we love.
So I don't want us all to shutourselves off from opportunities
that we may absolutely be.
A yes for us, right?
We don't want to put up so manywalls that no one ever asks us
anything again, because thenwe're going to miss out on

(24:14):
things, opportunities and thingsin life that we want to be a
part of.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Okay, well, and that's why I say like I'm always
grateful, like the honest partof my response is thank you for
asking.
Yeah, thank you for inviting me, thank you for giving me,
because I do appreciate I wantto be seen included, like they
reflected to you your creativity, your mastery of this thing.
What a lovely thing to receive,to really have that reflection
back to acknowledge what avaluable leader you are, right.

(24:41):
So like we don't want to evershut off those doors and I still
get to consider whether or not,given everything in my orbit at
any moment in time, what's aright fit for right now, which
could be different than tomorrow, which could be different than
next week?

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, so it's always could be a pocket phrase to say
something more like thank you somuch Like that.
That does sound like somethingreally cool that I would like to
do.
I can't right now, I don't havea space for it, but like I
would love if you would think ofme again right Down the road.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
People that have invited me to things that I
would love to go to, and ithasn't worked yet.
Right and so similar to that.
It's like please keep me onyour invite list.
If that's honest and authentic,then say it, you know, if it's
not, obviously don't.
But if it is, you know well,sometimes, you know, sometimes
it's like we're so afraid ofsaying not a fit for me.
I had somebody who literallyinvited me to something and

(25:32):
there's a long history behindthis.
But they had said hey, I know,you said you don't want to do
anything related to thisparticular area, you know, but
there's this event going on andslightly different.
And I said, you know, thanks somuch for the nuance of that
consideration.
Nope, not a fit for me, yeah,that's it.
But it was one of those momentswhere it was an area that I've

(25:52):
said no, no, no, no, no, and,you know, communicated and said
I'm not not a fit for that group, those folks, what they're
doing, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But to be able to reinforcewhere that line is, like it's
good to have that question, tohave to sort that out, and I
will say, like, as a woman ofthis age, I get to change my
mind.
Yeah, we do, might be an eventI want to go to tonight.

(26:13):
I said no this morning and thenall of a sudden midday I feel
like, oh, I'm like I get to dothat.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
No.
I call that beingunapologetically lazy Sometimes,
Because sometimes we're allowedto say yes to the event and
then the time comes and you knowyou're not in a good place.
This is going to be a bad ideafor everyone involved.
You want to save yourself andothers from your presence and
you're allowed to justunapologetically say no, I'm

(26:39):
staying home.
No, that's not for me now,tonight.
I know I said yes, I would loveto see you guys, but it's not
happening today for me.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well, and that's the part with the zero apologies,
right, like again, that's to mean increasing muscle over time,
because it was, you know, at thebeginning when I first started
my small nose and my big nose, Ihad to have a good reason for
everything.
Yeah, you know, and that'swhere even the reason of like,
are you too busy to take this on?
I may be not busy at all, butwhat I'm doing right now is
laying around my house for aweek.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Guess what I'm going to binge watch a show this week,
so you don't need to know whyI'm busy.
Yeah, it's not your business.
But yes, I am busy, but I ambusy With the quotes.
I am busy, that's not yourbusiness.
Okay, and when you're sayingsmall no's and big no's, what
feels like a small no versus abig no to you?
Do you have an example?

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean for me, you know, when somebody, when I
have established, like you know,a boundary with someone, and
they cross it, that's a big no.
You know, I mean there weretimes in my career, in my life I
put up with really toxicbehavior, People who are
verbally abusive, people who,you know, really kind of
intentionally stepped on mygoodwill.

(27:47):
You know, I learned over time tolike muster myself up to those
big no's where I could almost bein that place of outrage Like
how dare you Right, you know,and that was growth at a certain
point in time to be able tojust understand that no, no, no,
no, you do not get to crossthat line, right?
But that was also limiting at acertain point in time.
So, and it was easy for me, itwas so obvious.

(28:08):
So the big no is the lights areblaring.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, like someone is offended you quickly, yeah,
quickly.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
They've ticked you off.
You almost want to just killthem in the moment, you know
like, because it's been sooutrageous.
That's a big no, and for methose are easier because my body
, it rallies up.
I can feel it being like, yeah,let's go off to fight, right.
And so there was a phase atwhich that was the learn to be
able to do that.
But, but right, those aren'tthe ones that crowd my life, and

(28:39):
that's not the day by athousand paper cuts.
Yeah, it's the little ones thatwe thought were.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Okay, the little ones .
Okay, yeah, yeah, it's thelittle ones that we thought were
okay, it's the little ones,okay yeah.
And the little yeses that aregoing to take you out.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
So those are the little things like can you come
help with this event at theschool?
Hey, can you take on an extraproject at work that's not yours
to take on?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
no-transcript out one of the pocket phrases, then I
can.
Really.
It doesn't have to take long,it could be a minute, but I can
be in the inquiry and say, okay,okay, what's going on my body
right now?
So everything may seem good andlogical with my eyes and my
cognition, but my body's like,ooh, this doesn't feel right you

(30:09):
know my stomach's clenching,yeah.
So as I get in tune with thatbody dictionary, to me it's like
a perfectly tuned instrument,and that doesn't matter if I'm
in a fat phase or a thin phase,it is still perfectly tuned to
tell me this is a fit, thisisn't a fit, or we're not sure.
We'll get back to you later.
It knows.
So, in that not enough placeand leaning more into enough,

(30:33):
that first thing is reallylearning to tune in in that
regard, right?

Speaker 1 (30:38):
And those no's feel okay, because initially in my
mind I was thinking that thesmall no's would be easier than
the big no's.
But no, the big no's are easierbecause you're set in your ways
.
You're set in your thoughtpattern.
With that, you know that that'sa no right.
So, like for me, a big no wouldbe against anyone who is biased

(30:58):
against the LGBTQ community.
Yep, that's a hard no for me,right?
If you would like to sit andyou would like to tell me that
someone who is gay is burning inthe depths of hell, I'm not
going there with you.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, I can't even live in your orbit.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, like we aren't on the same path and that you're
okay with your opinion, as longas it's not you're not with me
on my path, that's all that's.
Those are that.
So for people listening, thatwould be a hard no for me.
Everyone's got their own hardnotes, but like that would be a
hard no for me.
For some people it would be anyform of well for me too racism.
Like I don't want to.
We aren't going to deal withany of that, right.

(31:33):
So for me, hard no's areanything where there's a serious
bias towards someone, right.
Where there's a like you thinkyou know more than everybody
else about one subject, right,close-mindedness, and those
people are easy no's for me.
So those would be, like big no'sfor me.
I'm thinking this throughoutlive with you guys.
Okay, so that those would be mybig no's which is great, like

(31:55):
this would be my big no's, andthen the little no's are things
that are harder, like, hey,could you, like you said, could
you store some of my stuff inyour garage for a while, could
you?
You know what I mean.
And you're like, well, yeah, Icould, you can have a little
space in my garage, and so, butyou want to think it through.
It's like, wait, no, I'm goingto need that space.

(32:15):
So that's so.
You're saying the small no's iswhere these.
You're either going to take apause, feel it in your body
right then, and come up withyour answer, or you're going to
pull out your pocket phrase andsay you know what?
Let me, let me double check,let me think about that.
I got to see what you know,what I got going on.
What makes sense, yeah, whatmakes sense for both of us.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well, and what just struck me as you were saying
that and I hadn't thought aboutit before, but is it was just
even the phrasing, that questioncan you?
I think we get stuck in the canyou too right?
Because I physically can.
It isn't actually a question Ishould be answering ever Like
can I?
There's a lot of things I cando that would not be healthy for

(32:54):
me to do.
Yeah, you know, mentally,emotionally, spiritually, all
the things right.
Yeah, so can I Sure I can right.
Like spiritually, all thethings Right.
Yeah, so can I Sure I can Right.
Like this is, I think, where wemess in our mind and where
words are so important Right,but as you were saying that, I
thought, wow, that's the wrongquestion Like are you willing to
?
You know, would you think aboutblah, blah, blah, blah?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
And again I say can too, because in our mind we
should switch it from.
If they say can you, we got toswitch it from.
If they say can you, we got toswitch it from?
Can you to?
Should I or am I willing to?
Yeah, am I willing to Like Ican.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
I know I can Because I think even should.
Depending how you were raisedman like I was raised Catholic
you got a lot of shoulds.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Oh, so many shoulds.
Yeah, so many shoulds and havetos and permissions, yes, so yes
, and that's the thing A lot ofus by midlife, we were raised in
a certain dogma, right, acertain religion or belief
system or whatever.
So we get to the point nowwhere we're like I got to unwind
this and feel what feels trueto me.
I don't have to throw out thebaby with the bathwater

(33:52):
necessarily, because some ofthese things I've learned and
lived feel true and I want tocontinue with them.
But what things just don't ringtrue to me anymore?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
And I think to your point of like at but what things
just don't ring true to meanymore.
And I think to your point oflike at this point.
The gift that we have, right,it's like hey, listen, I'm old
enough that I don't need toimpress people Like there was so
much I feel for my teenagers,because you know what it was way
harder being a teenager than itis being my age right now, so
hard so.
I empathize all over the place,but we get this opportunity at
this point to reevaluate.
Our brain gets rewired and weget to be at a point where we're

(34:26):
like, hey, I wonder what worksfor me.
I literally haven't been in theinquiry in these decades, these
past decades, because even if Iwasn't raising kids, I might
have been climbing a corporateladder or going along with my
neighborhood or whatever it was.
Yeah, yeah.
And so I get to step back andsay I wonder and be curious,

(35:02):
no-transcript, yeah, but it wasinteresting because my first
time I did this and again it'slike around the bend in Michigan
, here in a little cabin, andbut I I felt the pressure of how
I had to relax, you know, orhow I had to come back, like
that ended up being as bad orworse?

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah, and you're thinking about all the
things you got to get done whenyou get back from your big
relaxing moment.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yes.
Or knowing how I should spendmy moments, like, oh, I should
eat healthy while I'm here, Ishould get exercise Right.
So what I ended up doing is Iwrote on this notepad you know,
one of those old legal notepadsand I learned I would fill the
thing with every possible thingI could think that I could do.
So it literally was like Icould binge a Netflix episode, I

(35:52):
could make some food, I couldwalk by the beach, I could watch
this thing, I could read a book.
So I literally filled it.
And every time I think ofsomething else I could do, I'd
put it on there.
And what I learned to do was Iwould wait, so I'd check in,
like it'd be a Friday night.
I'd check in, go to bed, dowhatever.
I'd wake up and I would look atmy notepad and I would scan.

(36:12):
And again, this is tuning inwith the body and go what is
interesting to me, right, thissecond, you you know, and, and
that could be just laying in bed, that was an option, right, and
so I would do whatever that wasuntil I didn't feel like doing
it anymore.
And then I would look again andsee, was there something else I
felt like doing?
But what I was doing inretrospect was I was training

(36:33):
myself to learn to have thepossibilities and the options
and to follow myself.
Yes, to feel, to feel whatfeels right.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, to feel what feels right and to give myself
yes To feel what feels.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Right, yeah, to feel what feels right and to give
myself a load of possibilitiesof what can be included in there
.
It didn't have to be like if Iwanted to eat junk food for 10
hours I was allowed.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
It was a choice, yeah .

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Exactly.
It doesn't mean I wanted to.
So then it really is like ooh,does that feel like I want to do
that right?
I wonder, because I had been soout of touch, you know, and so
we have to get to know ourselvesagain, big time now.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, yes and so yeah, okay.
So we've been talking aboutthese yeses and nos.
So with these nos, I feel likegoes along with it you talk a
little bit about having abulletproof grace, you call it
and handling toxic people bystaying in your energy lane.
And you guys are listening.
You're thinking, oh God, here'sthe stay in your lane, energy

(37:25):
lane thing again.
So we're going to talk aboutthis.
Can I quote your book again?
Yes, you may, okay, so I'm onpage 85 now, you guys.
So she's talking about like kindof your energy lane here, okay,
enough and remember enough, iskind of a person in this book.
You guys Enough comes to yougently, takes your hand and
leads you towards the energylane that is perfectly designed

(37:46):
for you.
As you set foot in that energylane, you step onto the most
amazing moving sidewalk thatquickens your pace with little
effort and brings you immensejoy.
Living in your energetic lanebrings you tremendous meaning,
hope, inspiration and joy.
I think we're all looking forthis, okay, we're all looking
for our lane right now, andthat's part of this whole

(38:06):
midlife spiritual journey, inthat it's not just oh, it's just
what's my lane, what feels goodto me, and so I feel like we're
kind of at that point.
We can talk about this.
How do we?
First of all, we got to dealwith because we're finding our
energy lane right and once we'rein it, we're going to get
blocked.
People are going to try andcome into our lane and block our

(38:28):
beautiful little ray ofsunlight, because she's got a
little picture in here.
It looks like a little sun.
If you're thinking of a sunwith tons of rays coming out of
it, everyone has their ownlittle ray.
That's theirs, right?
And if we really, if you digreally in deep and you think of
this whole something as God andthe oneness, you guys, we each
have our lane, that we weremeant to be in our path, okay,

(38:50):
and so I think we have a problemwith people coming into our
lane blocking us from what we'redoing, and also sometimes we
switch lanes when we shouldn'thave.
We got to mind our own lane.
I'm like all right, Barbara,let's hear it.
How are?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
we going to do all that?
Well, and I just want to, I'mgoing to start where you ended,
which is this is how you know,because, again, this is a
podcast.
We can talk about spiritualityand all the things, right, yeah,
so to me that is like God love.
However you want to describe it, you know there's plenty of all
kinds of ancient religions thattalk about the oneness and
that's.
you know.
People talk about an ocean andwaves, but imagine that we are

(39:23):
all part of that energetic glow.
Right, but it doesn't mean wedon't have different expressions
.
So again, that particular rayversus this ray.
We're shooting out from thatsource in a variety of different
you know ways.
My original you know kind ofthing with this was realizing
how much I stepped out of mylane, so we'll talk about both.
You know kind of thing withthis was realizing how much I
stepped out of my lane, so we'lltalk about both.

(39:43):
But I would look over and seesomebody else and what they're
doing and what I should do,going back to the shoulds and
think, oh my gosh, I have toblah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or
I should be blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, right, and that's
when I talk earlier in the bookabout this ladder of comparison.
I'd be comparing myself toanybody or anything, and that
would pull me right outside myenergy lane.
And when we get outside of ourenergy lane, like I'm sitting

(40:04):
here talking to Jen, you knowJen has a magnificent presence
about her.
If all of a sudden I left thiscall and said, oh my gosh, and
you know not that I haven't hadthis thought look at that cute
background.
She has sound baffles, butthey're also like attractively
designed.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
There's a gorgeous plant.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I should do that for my you know like this is right.
But if I, if I stepped, youknow, outside and was like, oh
my gosh, this is what I need tobe doing, I've left my energy
lane, yes, and the reality isagain in that moving sidewalk
kind of visual, jen is in frontof me in her energy lane.
I can never pass Jen.
So this idea that, oh, I'mgoing to join her in her lane,
or no, no, no, no, no, likeshe's meant to do her gen-ness

(40:43):
to the ultimate degree.
And once I start trying to doit, I'm never going to explore.
I can never move fast on thatsidewalk.
I'm always behind her right.
So that's the temptation I get.
Often it gets me in trouble.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
It's like hey look over here.
Isn't this cuter, better,neater, blah, blah, blah, right,
oh she looks so cute with thathairdo or the.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
It could be anything very superficial to like very
deep.
We're looking yes, both, and sothat's a temptation to stop
doing that.
And then the flip side of it toyour point is when we notice
people starting to and again itcrosses over with these
boundaries and things like thiswhere they're telling you what
you should do or what you needto do, or what you blah, blah,
blah, blah like, or, you know,characterizing you in certain
way, even things like oh, you'reso this, you're so that, and

(41:29):
dah, dah, dah.
Well, you know, if I'mlistening to that, I'm allowing
someone into my space.
Right?
They're coming into myenergetic lane, which is not
healthy for me.
There's, you know, literallyit's like it's dimming that
light and you know, to me, likelife is too short.
That's what part of the beautyof being at this point is to go,
oh my gosh, no, there's not.
There's only.
This is a really limited time.

(41:49):
I want to shine, I want to be.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
I want to finish strong.
I'm not slowing down, I justwant to be busy with my own
stuff now.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
My own stuff and, by the way, my own stuff.
I think for me, like there wereso many unconscious things that
meant, like in my early career,it meant achievement in
different things.
You know a logo on a resume orblah, blah, blah, blah.
You know I have been throughmany of the physical journeys
I've studied, you know, worldreligions.
I've been on pilgrimages allaround the world and I've been

(42:23):
on pilgrimages all around theworld and I've done a lot of
personal development kind ofstuff and I love that aspect of
myself.
I'm a seeker, I'll always be aseeker.
My faith is the mystery, right?
That's what I love, but in thepersonal development, and it can
even be like, oh, I'm going tobe the most conscious, I'm going
to be the most personallydeveloped, I'm going to be like
that's just as much of adistraction as anything else.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
No, that's just as toxic.
You're not growing in that, no,no.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
But I think I am right.
I get the same that dopaminehit again this pseudo ooh, look
what I look, I'm so much moreconscious yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, I'm just so much better than everyone at
this, and you're like oh wait,what did I just say?
That sounded like I've got alot more work to do.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, yes, yeah, but I think in this energy lane it
really is this, you know, to meinvitation.
So at this point, and I'll sayparticularly in the last three
or four years of, hey, I wonderwhat that is.
I wonder what that feels like,and it's not.
I think where I used to get introuble is I'm not a strong
believer in finding your purpose.
My purpose is just being me onthe planet and showing up.

(43:22):
Now that looks different momentby moment and sometimes that is
like I'm also a crafty, love todo the creative things, all the
things.
So sometimes it is just givingmy blessings in that way.
Sometimes it's so.
Yesterday I'm walking inChicago, I was meeting a friend
at a coffee shop and I'm walkingtowards the coffee shop and
this woman kind of catches myeyes, just huge like billowy,

(43:44):
purpley, pink skirt on, and Ithink I'm far enough away and of
course I'm not wearing myglasses.
So I'm like I wonder is shegoing to an event?
Is there something going onduring the day?
Blah, blah, blah.
As I'm getting closer, I seeher trying to take selfies of
herself, right, and I thoughtagain, like me, that's fully me.
I was like, oh, she's having ahard time taking a picture of
herself.
I can take that picture, right.
So you know, I get within a few.

(44:06):
I said can I take that for you?
Oh, my God, that'd be amazing.
And boy did she just like shewas so herself in that moment.
Yeah, she struck poses.
I was like dang you go, girl.
Yeah, and and I realized as Igot up close, she had almost
like cheesy makeup on with thiswhole.
And I, after I've taken herpicture and she was super
grateful and I said, by the way,where are you, where?
What are you dressed up for?

(44:27):
And she said, well, you knowwhat?
There's a four year old girlwho wants a storytelling fairy
for her birthday party, andthat's me today.
And she goes.
I just popped out of my EasterBunny costume and now I'm in
this one.
So we have this lovely momentof humanity.
It was just beautiful.
Like, if I really slow down, Icould cry at the thought of I

(44:48):
don't know her, I don't have hername, we're not going to be
friends, but the me that's so meis the one who saw that she
needed some help there, gave itand then we could be.
We had this lovely conversationabout any girl that wants to be
told stories for their birthday.
We love, we have this moment ofconnection, and so that's me,
that's me in my energy lane,that's me and it doesn't mean I
had to yeah Like she was in herlane in that moment.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
You were in yours, so we can cohabitate next to each
other in our lanes.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Right.
Oh yeah, I think we can amplifythe light, Maybe a little or
something.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
But OK, so give me an example of being off your lane.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, well, for me it's.
I'll give you know particularlyexamples in work you know or
engaging with vendors orwhatever it is.
It's where somebody wants toinvite you into some sort of
drama filled conversation.
So I had a boss I worked forwho loved to fight, and for a
big portion of my owndevelopment I thought, oh, I
have to learn to fight.

(45:45):
And I did Right.
So I got to the point where heand I could fight and fight at a
high volume and we would walkaway from these transactions and
he loved it.
He would acknowledge me for it.
He'd be like, oh my God, that'sgreat.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I love how you dig in .
You know I'm getting all thecompliments the pass on the back
, all the things.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
I never felt better after those.
He got off on that.
That was again, narcissists.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
We could go into all the things, but yeah, he sucked
you into his energy.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yes, and I willingly, again in my moment of saving
versus serving, willingly justwent over there because I could
go get that dopamine high of theoh good job.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I got a pat on the head.
Yeah, he's going to love itwhen I'm a complete bitch to him
.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, yes.
And then I, you know, I lovethe people who have supported us
in our lives, but I had a coachat the time who was like you
understand, you don't have to dothat, right?
What do you mean?
Of course, I had like this is,let's explore the options.
And so I got to the point whereI would literally just dial if
that was happening and say youknow what, if you want to

(46:46):
regroup, when you feel like youcould have more of a
professional conversation,that's fine, I'm going to hang
up now when I started to makethose decisions, right.
So that was me getting out ofmy energy lane and and also not
taking care of myself.
He would, he loved that.
So he made the glowinginvitation, but I let myself be

(47:08):
sucked in.
So it's a two-way street, right.
And again, as we do, you know,look back and look at our
childhoods and do the work andall the things.
There's places where it makessense Like, oh well, that was
familiar to me.
So, yeah, that's why I'm doingthat and the other.
Yeah, but that was me gettingsucked into that energy lane.
That was not mine, but it wasliterally like I think of it
sometimes, particularly when I'mworking with clients like you
can almost see them dangling thebait and you can't wait to get
over there.

(47:28):
Yeah, you know, it's like oh,oh, and it's even almost you
with the like oh, I felt soimportant because they did it.
I like what.
There was a little baitdangling.
It doesn't have to be illwilled, it was just like oh, let
me no.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
And some of it feels like it turns into muscle memory
, Like oh, when that person doesthat, I do this yes.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Right, even though I don't want to do it.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
It's the Pavlov dog.
Yes, it's like, but this iswhat we do, so these feel like
the toxic people you're talkingabout some of them.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
So how do we break that?
How do we?
Well, I'm going to go back toyou know, I'll tie it into
another concept in a moment ofthe bulletproof grace, because
you mentioned that.
But we, you know, we notice itfirst, right?
So, like a big part of it, Ithink about all these
interlocking skills buildingtogether, right.
So, as I tune into my body, Ican notice, wow, this doesn't

(48:15):
feel good.
I can begin to be aware of mysmall nose and my big nose.
And what am I saying?
Yes to my small?
Yes is my big nose.
And what am I saying yes to mysmall?
Yes is my big.
Yes is what am I saying yes to?
And so then there becomes thiskind of good cognitive
dissonance, a really healthy one, like wait, I'm saying yes, but
my body's saying you know, youcan start to sort those pieces
out.
So I think noticing is the bigthing.
But then I think there's a realstrong skill, because I'm a

(48:38):
pragmatist too.
I'm not like I'd love to befloating around with, you know,
energetic beings all in therainbow, happy, don't get me
wrong.
But so far, when I walk outthere, that's not what I see all
the time.
So, given that people are goingto do what they do and they're
on their journey and I have noidea what their journey is it
goes back to these havingresponses that work for me, so

(48:59):
that I don't take the bait.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
And so it is like it's noticing it, but it is
giving myself permission to takewhatever time I need to notice
it or to change my mind.
Let's say, you know, I hadgotten in two fights and I was
like, oh, shoot, there, I wasagain Right.
So that's fine.
On the third one, I can noticeand decline, I can come up with
the possible responses, which,again, it's what you know, my

(49:22):
coach at the time helped me dothat.
I, you know, can help otherfolks do as well.
But it's like you know what arethe responses.
And this goes back to thatbulletproof grace moment, you
know.
So when I think about when we'rein toxic situations, I think
about it like I have a chest ofarmor, one of those breastplates
you know, that's almost metalat that regard.

(49:44):
So somebody can shoot anythingthey want at me.
They can shoot me a bullet,like for him he might name call
to get me to fight or saysomething that was highly
offensive, right.
So that bullet is coming at me.
I'm not making up that someenergy thing just got thrown in
my territory, but if I'm wearingthis lovely vest, I can let
that bounce off me and I don'thave to join them in their mess.

(50:05):
So he wanted me to join him inthat fighting.
I can let the bullet bounce offme and respond appropriately,
and I say this because it's gotto be authentic to you.
So my value set to yours iskind, inclusive, generous.
I'm not always that way, butthat's what I try to orient to,
so I don't have to then jointhat messiness that I see.

(50:26):
So I can see that bullet comingat me, I can go oh, I see you,
there you are.
Yes, we're going to let thatone bounce right off.
And now how would I would liketo respond right.
So, and again, and this is noteven just for people meaning ill
, but people who unconsciouslyare inviting us into these
spaces where I can say, hey, Ihear you, yeah, but that doesn't
work for me.
Yeah, yeah, I completelyunderstand where you're coming

(50:48):
from, but for me I'm gonna thisRight, or you know what, right
now this isn't working for me.
I'm gonna blah, blah, blah.
And for me it was coming tothese internal decisions that
built that plate of armor whichis I get to choose, I get to
lead how I lead, I get to changemy mind, I get to exist Like
someone can be totallyuncomfortable with whatever I'm

(51:10):
doing and how they find ittotally offensive.
They get to have that choice,that's in their energy lane, yes
, but I get to have mine, whichis in mine, which is like great,
I see you over there beingupset.
Yeah, I don't need to join you.
I just had this happen a weekand a half ago where a good
friend of mine was like I'm soupset, I'm so hurt that you blah
, blah, blah.
And you know, normally I wouldhave been thinking, oh my God,

(51:31):
what did I do wrong?
Yeah, Instead I was like,totally get that you're upset,
yeah, and you know.
But we need to, you need to,and I said no, I get that you're
upset.
That's not my perspective on itand you can be upset about it,
but I'm not going to change howI responded.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I feel good about my response and I would say it
again these days, as we get intothis midlife thing, if we're
doing the work, but we've beendoing way too many, way too many
, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'msorry, I'm sorry and you're like
wait a minute.

(52:08):
I'm not actually sorry.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
So why did I say that ?
Well, and let me reserve theI'm sorry's for when I really am
because I have made plenty ofmesses.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, because if someone says I'm sorry all the
time, you're just like no, Idon't believe you.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
It loses its meaning.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, the part wolf there Like what do you mean?
You're sorry all the time.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Well, I was just going to say to that point.
I have another friend that itwas probably about six months
ago that I did need to call herand apologize and say I'm sorry
and it was genuine.
Then, right, I said listen,I've been thinking about this
one thing.
Now that I see it this way,this is what I should have done
and I apologize for the impactthat had on you.
Like that's a real I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yes, yep, yep.
And so with all these toxicpeople, like, sometimes you're
going to have to deal with them.
Like you, like your boss, right?
There are people you work with.
You got bills to pay.
You can't quit today, right,you might want to work towards
that direction.
If you have a toxic boss likethat, you might want to work
towards that direction.
If you have a toxic boss likethat, right, you got to come up
with a plan to get out of thatfor sure.
But some of these we have todeal with.
But then sometimes we have tomake the hard decision that our

(53:08):
paths should be nowhere neareach other anymore.
Yeah, I'm fine with you beingon yours and being on mine, but
we're not going to cross pathsanymore and we're not going to
be next to each other.
So, yeah, what do you thinkabout that when we have to
actually say this is just, thisis too toxic for me.
I don't see change cominganytime soon.
So what do you think?

(53:28):
How do we handle that?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Well, I've had a lot of that in the last three years
as I've grown up more you knowwhat I mean it's like, as I
started to see what was andwasn't working for me, there's
plenty of you know, and I thinkabout like kind of friendships
and relationships.
I'm a big nature person so Ithink about rings of a tree, you
know.
So I have this tight ring inhere, like who gets to be in
that little sphere at anyparticular moment in time.
Then there's the next ring out,you know, and then there's a

(53:51):
further ring out.
So there are people for whomI'm like you know what they're
going to be in that third ring,that furthest out ring at this
moment, like, and I might'vemoved them from ring two to ring
three.
They don't need to know, butI'm changing and in that close
circle there in your little freecircle.
But I'm allowed to be asvulnerable, open and unedited as

(54:12):
possible in that small ring,you know, and and so
understanding that.
But, to your point, there aresome people who do not get to
exist in my rings whatsoever.
And again, for some of thosefolks, like you know, I have
unfriended, unfollowed,un-whatever, like literally, you
know, moved them out of myspace whatsoever, and even to

(54:32):
the point where, like sometimes,if something will come up in my
memory, I do this mentalexercise of I just erase that
and I say to myself there'snobody like that in my life.
Exercise, if I just erase thatand I say to myself there's
nobody like that in my life, youknow I will, meaning I don't
need that pattern of behavior, Idon't need that whatever.
It's a mental exercise, almostto remind myself I get to choose

(54:54):
where they live.
But to your point, you know, Iagain being a pragmatist,
sometimes we do need to pay thebills, and so you figure out
where's that line?
How do I protect myself enoughto still get my paycheck and do
the things I need to do while Ineed to, and with a vision
towards, how do I get myself outof this and into a situation
that is healthy for me?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
And that can be work.
For some, that can be theirmarriage partnership at home.
Yes, could be any.
I mean, it could be anyrelationship.
You guys, friendships, yeah,whatever, yeah.
And sometimes, if you're justscooting them, like you said,
into outer rings, sometimes itdoesn't have to be a big deal,
we don't have to even let themknow that they've turned into
that for you.

(55:31):
And then sometimes, for thosebigger, you know, if you're
kicking them out of the wholetree, you might need to have a
moment about that, a littleclosure on it.
I don't know, do we?

Speaker 2 (55:41):
need closure on that Depends.
I think it totally depends onthat human, their intent and
their maturity.
Right, if it is somebody forwhom they're just on their
learning and growing path andthere's just stuff that's not a
fit, I think you can have it.
But I reserve the right to giveno notice and cut off all ties
for someone who's actively doingme harm.
And you know, again, part of itfor me is in those really toxic

(56:04):
relationships.
My metaphor I used for this onewas okay, I'm hitting my head
against the brick wall for thethird time and the brick wall's
not moving.
Is this about the brick wall orabout me?
Like this person keeps beingexactly who they've always been.
Since the moment I met them,they were toxic.
I'm the one that was sillyenough to think oh well, if I

(56:24):
only.
Yeah, oh they'll change.
No, they won't.
They'll change Maybe if I do itthis way, if I approach it this
way, right?
So in those situations where Irealize, like, truly it's, it's
someone who's not going tochange, never going to change,

(56:46):
blah, blah, blah, blah, I don'tneed to give any kind of notice
or anything, I can just pull,you know.
Now, again, it depends if it'sa work relationship or not, and
you just need better strategies,depending what it is.
But for a lot of folks it'slike you know, you can make
those decisions or those moveswithout, like you said, ever
making a big deal out of it.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah, Okay, so I feel like we've been talking about,
you know, figuring out how tothe big nose from the small nose
, toxic people staying in ourlane, all of this, but I think
it all, guys.
I'm doing one last quote herefor Barbara, page 138.
I think it all sums up to doingthis first and then we have the
room to do all this work.
This is about permission toslow down to the speed of life.

(57:17):
Okay, guys, here's what she'sgot in here.
I was slowing down to the speedof life's possibilities, of the
joy available in the littlemoments.
And, to be clear, slowing downdoesn't mean you need to
physically slow down.
For me, slowing down happenswhen I allow enough to take the
wheel.
She has an uncanny ability,with the turn of a dial to slow
down the progression of time sothat the moment stretches to

(57:40):
more than a moment.
As time stretches, I'm able toenjoy the kind of joy, delight
and meaning normally reservedfor transcendent experiences or
for close family and friends andtheir milestones.
With enough, I can experiencethat delight with a random
passenger on a plane or a danceron the road.
Dance on the road, a dancer onthe road?

(58:04):
Okay, so I think?
I don't know.
For me, I feel like what weneed to do to make to just to
invite enough in, enough, right,Like just to get to feel like
we're enough and we're doingenough, We've got to do this
slow down.
I talk a lot about this slowdown and it's not like you said,
it's not always physically,Sometimes it's mentally.
Let my brain slow down and forme, that's where meditation and

(58:24):
other things have helped withthat slowdown.
Yep, Letting that creativityflow, putting the phone down
right, like going outside andjust letting my mind go where it
feels like going, instead ofwhere I've trained it to go all
the time.
And so for you, what does thatslowdown look like?
Or do you have any small shiftswe can make to do the slowdown

(58:46):
here?

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Well, it's interesting because sometimes,
when I'm working with people,one of the things I have them do
when they're in these momentsof making shifts, is I'll ask
them and I'll ask them to listit like, what are all the things
that you enjoy, what are allyou know?
And again, no editing, no,whatever.
Like it could be a big list ofstuff, right?
And a lot of times we've almostlocked away in these old
caverns some of the things thatlike, well, I'm too, well, I

(59:10):
don't do it for.
Well, I'm not professional,right, it's like there are so
many, so many little joypossibilities.
And so, you know, one of theexamples I had said in the book
is like, as I was making thesebigger breaks in my life, it was
literally like there werecracks in the pavement where,
you know, we've all seen this.
We're walking down the streetand there's a little, you know,

(59:31):
tree, a little weed, a littlesomething growing in that crack.
But that's life growing amidstwhat had been concrete.
And so it is finding all ofthese little things and just
trying them out and givingourselves permission, finding
all of these little things andjust trying them out and giving
ourselves permission.
So for me personally, you know,nature is huge.
So you know, even as we sithere, I have a plant right here.

(59:52):
I have a tree that's buddingoutside my window, Like I have
that another tree right next toit that's right outside my
bathroom window.
It may seem silly to somebodyelse, but when I'm there I talk
to my tree.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
I'm like, oh my gosh, look at you.
Yes, I talk to my tree.
I'm like, oh my gosh, look atyou.
Yes.
I talk to our names for all thewildlife in my yard I like.
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Yeah, but it brings.
You know, that tree and I havea relationship right, it brings
it.
So for me, nature is a huge one, but it is also like this
Sometimes, as much as I'm kindof an introvert at times, even
though I love public speakingand all the things, I can find
these.
Then moments in the midst of aload of people, and that, when I
was walking to that coffee shop, that was that moment when,

(01:00:26):
with the woman with the dress,that was an enough moment, like
my heart afterward felt soswelled in the best way, and it
was.
You know, when we talk aboutthose rays of light, I do
believe we can.
You know, again, as ours isexpanding, it's almost, you
think, about the sun.
They aren't distinct raysanymore.
Right, we are amplifying eachother.
So we had that moment.

(01:00:47):
What I needed to do is just bewith myself.
And it seems small, but it's asmall thing.
So I had been walking from thecar and I realized, hey, I'm in
no rush, I'm early to meet thisperson I'm meeting.
I'm going to walk slowly andI'm going to look at the humans
around me.
And I did.
If I had been rushing and blah,blah, blah, I might not have
seen her right, but it, and itdidn't take long.

(01:01:09):
It was actually taking the riskto step outside myself at that
moment and risk quote unquotethe contact with another human.
But to me and you named somealready, but like reading,
meditation, nature, creativity,you know all of those kinds of
things During this three-yearperiod of time, I found myself
with a big, thick black Sharpiemarker, one of the really thick

(01:01:29):
ones, and I was drawing.
So I have all of these, like Ican't.
I've got 50 of them, drawingsof these black shapes on white
paper.
I don't know what they're for.
I have no.
You know, I made myself my owncard deck and so there's some in
there, some of the shapes onthere.
But to give myself permissionto do that for absolutely no
reason.
You know, like I'm not, I don'thave to be selling art, I don't

(01:01:53):
have to be good at it, I don'thave to be anything to allow
myself that moment of lettingmyself do it Right.
So I think there's a lot ofthings like that that are in
truly in those micro momentcracks that we just aren't used
to paying attention to.
Even in my office I'm sittingin right now, there's a blanket
that I love the texture of, youknow, and it's some days I just

(01:02:15):
feel like sticking that in mylap while I'm coaching clients,
you know, and I do Right.
It's these sensorial things,it's all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
No, I have to have a good fuzzy blanket everywhere I
go, like I travel.
I'm not sleeping in that hotelbed with just those crusty
sheets.
I'm going to need my fuzzyblanket.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, no one comes everywhere with me, but I think
it's such a partnership, right,because I think if you had told
me all this before, I probablywould have, freaking, rolled my
eyes, right, like I'm a busy CEO, I've got this going on, I'm
trying to raise kids, I don'tknow Great, oh, I'm going to go
journal and da da da.
It is a partnership in thesense of I have to pause.
Enough.
I have to have enough of thoselittle moments of like, hey, for

(01:02:54):
these five minutes I'm going todo nothing.
I'm back reading physical booksagain.
I haven't in a long time.
I listen on audio and the otherday I had 20 minutes between
clients and I literally sat andopened up a physical book.
I knew there were a ton ofemails I could do, expenses, I
had to do all the things and Iwas like you know what, in this
one moment I'm going to just letmyself have this crack, right.

(01:03:16):
But I had historically made uplater, later, later.
There's no time for that, right.
But I have found that the moreI do think it's a muscle you
build, the more I do that, themore that, again, I don't have
to physically slow down.
I see the opportunities.
I almost feel them coming to mebefore they do.
That's that, you know, danceron the road.

(01:03:36):
We're on this trip with womenand this construction worker is
just boogying his butt off onthe road and normally it would
have been like, oh my God,what's going on with that guy?
And instead it was like wesavored it, we danced along, we
you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
know like it's taking .
It is really just all thelittle moments make up your
whole life.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah, well, and we were coming back from an
overseas trip last November andthis woman, who is the passport
person, like my family, had togo through.
I passport person, like myfamily, had to go through.
I was doing the global entryinterview thing and so I was
going to catch up with themlater and but they had had the
customs form, so they he had hadthis conversation.
My husband texted me.
He's like go through.
Well, I get to this line whereI'm supposed to go through.

(01:04:11):
There's two women.
I'm like which one am Isupposed to talk to?
But I luckily picked the rightone and she was freaking amazing
.
We're talking 10 seconds of ourlife together, right, yeah.
But I'm walking through and Isaid, hey, my husband, she goes,
are you Barbara?
I said, well, yes, I am.
And she's like good to meet you, barbara, I have met your
husband and your kids andthey've already gone through and

(01:04:32):
you are good girl.
You just Thank you.
Thank you, like she was in it.
Right, she was in that moment.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
I always love someone who's enjoying their job a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yes, but she's having that little so.
But then I got to enjoy thatand go look at her.
She's in that moment, whichthen expanded it to me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Yeah, it's, it is.
We're just paying attention,being ready for all the little
things around us and put thephone down.
You guys just put Throw in yourprayers, put it on mute.
If there's an emergency, likesomeone's getting a hold of you,
it's fine, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Yeah, and keep making the small no's.
So you got the, you know roomfor it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
So you have the room for all the good things.
Yes, and you talk more aboutthis book you guys to read and
it's not a long long read,everybody, right, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yeah, no, it's short.
And, by the way, even in thatwhen I put the book out, right,
it was a choice of enough, Iwent back and re-read it.
I would edit a thousand thingsnow, right, you know of course
there something, but it was in.
Even in the pushing it outthere, like this birthing of it,
I was like, no, no, that is notyour purpose here.
Honey.
Hey, sweetie, this is my enoughvoice.

(01:05:49):
Sweetie, sweetie, sweetie.
You know, like you, you justput it out as it is.
It's good, it is, and even ifit's not, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
You're just supposed to be doing it, because nobody
knows what you left out, nobodyknows what you wished you put in
.
You just write another one,barbara.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
You just try to follow up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
for enough here, that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Well, my friends joke .
They're like it's dangerous toget around her.
If you have an idea, because Iam at that place in my life
where I'm like, okay, what's itgoing to take for you to do it?
All right, let's just get it, Imean I literally.
I might've said this I can'tremember if I said it in my bio
but like I put on a one womanshow last year, I had no
thinking oh yeah, you did, youguys she did a one woman show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
I'm going to put all the links, but like hello I
literally had.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
I just did it one time, one night.
But if you had told me a yearbefore that I was going to be
doing that, I would tell you youare off your fricking rocker.
I mean, I talked about my body,I talked about my chat, I
talked about my spiritualbeliefs.
I talked like what?

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
the what Doesn't it start off that you were in
between, or something like yes,guys, you know, yeah, you should
watch this.
So you've got your book.
You've got stuff online.
Your full gig is your.
You've got your home consultingbusiness right and I've got all
her links in the show notes.
You've got stuff online.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Your full gig is you've got your own consulting
business right and I've got allher links in the show notes, you
guys, yeah, I do consulting andcoaching and training and
speaking and all the things Allthe things.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
She's a business woman, she knows what's going on
out there.
So I don't know, maybe you'refeeling like you need a coach or
something.
Anyway, look into all her stuff, you guys.
I've got it all in the shownotes and this book is a quick
read, but it's a good readbecause you don't have, like I
said, age appropriate for usmidlifers, because we're at the
point where we're like, well,both terms of enough, I am
enough, and also I've had enough.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Yes, well, somebody asked me about that Because
there are a lot of books thatare enough, all capitals and
done with that.
And somebody had asked me aboutthat and I said, listen, when
you start to live with thistension of enough and not enough
, enough means both.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Enough is like.
I am enough in myself to alsobe.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
That's enough and be able to say that's enough,
because I'm working on my nose,yeah, my boundaries and all of
my lanes.
Staying in our lane, oh Lord,stay in your lane, you guys.
That's a big takeaway.
Stay in your lane, you guys.
That's a big takeaway.
Stay in your own energy lane.
It won't be good for you andit's not good for them to leave
our own little lanes, and we gotto do the work to figure out
how to stay in our lane.

(01:08:08):
Basically, yeah, and feel inour bodies.
Yeah, our bodies are very smart.
They do really tell useverything we need to know.
We shut the hell up and listento them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Yeah, well, and again , I think, in prioritizing, you
know, like almost as yourcompass or your guide, you know,
go to the spiritual for amoment here, when I it was a
little bit before I had left mylast job, but I finally had come
to this place where God,universe, spirit, whatever you
want to call it that's my boss.
There is no one that cansupersede that boss-ness.
So, you know, if that's, youknow, core love in the way that

(01:08:40):
we would talk about whatever itis, when that's the driving
force kind of everything elsethat feels important becomes a
little distracting.
Yeah, and it doesn't mean froma churchgoing perspective or
whatever it is, it just means,you know, I'm going to be guided
on the things that I sense atany moment in time that most
matter to me, and I'm going tohave a faith and a trust that
things will work out as theyneed to.

(01:09:01):
And I'm going to have a faithand a trust that things will
work out as they need to.
And when I catch myself, youknow, orienting in any other
direction, I'm going to noticeand I'm going to work to get
back in my energy lane.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Yeah, because when you have that connection with,
like you said, god source,whatever you call it, I just
call it God but when you havethat connection, you're actually
connected to yourself better,because you have a piece of God
in you, you are part of theoneness and it also helps you
look at others differentlybecause you're like they're in

(01:09:30):
their oneness.
I'm not going to worry or judgeor try and change them, because
they're in their oneness,they're doing their thing with
God.
Right, that's between those two.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Well, and to your point, so much of my, I think,
early life was trying to changethem Like why did I ever think
that was my job?

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
No, I'm firm in the belief that we can only change
ourself and no one else.
Yeah, because you're going towork real hard changing others
and all you're going to do isscrew yourself up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yeah Well you probably came to that sooner in
your life than I did, but it's ablessing to be here, yeah it's
welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Everyone join in.
We're welcoming you into theclub today.
Oh gosh, okay, listen, you guys.
I can't keep Barbara all dayand I can't keep you guys all
day.
Right, you're like we can't doa 12-hour episode, jen.
So we're going to have to letBarbara go for the day.
She's a busy woman, but so manythings I still have in my brain

(01:10:26):
, so we might have to do afollow-up at some point.
Barbara.
I am open open, because Ihaven't even heard anything
about all my favorite things tohear about, which is all your
metaphysical journeys and allthe things you've learned
spiritually.
What the heck girl Like I gotto hear all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Well, maybe we do that as our part too, because
that is a place I love to livein.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
No, we need to live in that spot.
I feel like we got a lot ofgreat stuff for us to start
living in, our enough and all ofthis good stuff, but before we
got the chance to have thisbeautiful moment and talk.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
Of course I was back.
You know binging your pastpodcast episodes, but listening
to the psychic that you had onand all that kind of stuff, I'm
like, oh my gosh, there's somany wormholes we could go down
on this one that would bedelightful.
So yeah, I've been blessed tohave a lot of beautiful
experiences in my life in thatregard.
And you know, at the end of theday, you know, yes, I do
business and to me, business isan excuse to bounce up against

(01:11:18):
other humans and, at the end ofthe day, like, have some core
contribution.
I don't care what form it takes, you know, but it is.
It is a spirit path to me, itis an angel path to me, it is a,
you know, it's just, it's, it'sthe physical world excuse we
use to interact.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Yeah, because you said you've gone on some out of
country pilgrimages.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
I've been to Tibet and China and Northern India and
Southern India.
Okay, what's?

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
happening.
There's a whole other bookright there, barbara.
I probably need you to getwriting on that, but no, I got
to hear all about all this, okay, so now I'm going to be sending
her another link to schedulebecause we got to go over all of
that, you guys, don't you worry, we're getting Barbara back.
But thank you so much for goingover this book and all of these

(01:12:05):
great tips, because I think wecan all do it, whether it's in
our corporate life, our personallife, whatever we got going on.
These are all really good tips.
I think we're all working on itat this age.
We just are.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Yes, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
If you're one of my younger listeners right now, the
earlier you can start thisstuff.
You're going to be way ahead ofthe game.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Right here, here, way ahead of the game.
And, by the way, you know, forthose listening, you know if
you're a Jen follower on thispodcast, you know you are
sensing that enough, becausethat's what you represent.
That was what was sofascinating reading all these
different pieces, and I agreewith you pieces and I agree with
you Anyone.
However, you're starting totune in, like we.
You know this is the guise ofthe midlife moment, but all it

(01:12:48):
is is us being allowed, feelingentitled enough to share the
wisdom that's always there.
And for you know, the youngerpeople, please don't wait till
you're our age to start learningsome of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Get on it right now, yes, and you're going to be way
wiser than me when you're inyour 50s if you get on it now,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Hear hear.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
All right, guys.
And if you're way older than me, hey, it's never too late.
Still do whatever the hell youwant.
Yes, it is not too late tostart your nose either, I don't
care how old you are, you say no.
Yeah, yeah, you say no to thisstuff, all right.
Well, thank you, barbara.
This has been amazing.
You guys, everything's in theshow links so you can get your
hands on this book.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Amazon, barnes, noble , you can get it on, you know,
through Kindle Reader or as a,you know, hardcover or softcover
.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
So all the channels, all the options are there and
the audios are coming.
But, like I said, it's not ahard read so you don't have to
be intimidated like it's goingto be this big, complicated book
.
It's not because mine's full oftabs and outlines already.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
That's why I still get physical books a lot because
I really I love the old school,highlighting and underlining.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
I do the same, I'll listen to some audio books and
then order the hard copy so thatI can mark it up and keep it.
I'll be like, well, I don'twant just the audio.
Yeah, okay, all right, thankyou so much Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Very appreciated Such a blessing to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Oh, I appreciate it so much.
All right, well, you guys,don't worry, there's going to be
a part two.
We're going to hear all aboutthese journeys to all of these
places she's been and all thespiritual things that have led
her to where she is too.
Yeah, we're gonna do it Allright.
Thanks, barbara.
Thank you, listen.
I know your time is valuableand right now I'm feeling super

(01:14:27):
grateful and totally humbledthat you chose to hang out with
me today.
If this podcast resonates withyou, could you do me a solid and
hit that subscribe or followbutton?
That's going to help you outbecause you're never going to
miss an episode, and it helps meout because you're never going
to miss an episode.
And if you have like 30 secondsmore, could you leave a

(01:14:47):
five-star rating and maybe leavea kick-ass review?
Thank you so much and I can'twait to continue our journey on
the next episode.
Oh, and I can't forget the fineprint.
You know the legal jargon.
This podcast is presentedsolely for educational and
entertainment purposes.
We're just two friends on thisjourney together and this

(01:15:08):
podcast is not intended as asubstitute for the advice of a
physician, professional coach,psychotherapist or any other
qualified professional, you getit.
See you next time.

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