E47 -Midlife: Crisis or Transformation? with Keri Mangis

What if midlife isn't a crisis at all, but a powerful opportunity for transformation? In this illuminating conversation, author and spiritual teacher Keri Mangis challenges us to flip the script on everything we thought we knew about this pivotal life stage.

Keri shares her extraordinary journey through breakdown to breakthrough, including a raw, vulnerable moment when years of suppressed emotions finally erupted in a primal scream that changed everything. She explains how women especially are conditioned to "keep the peace" at the expense of our authentic selves, storing trauma in our bodies until we finally create space for healing.

We explore the concept of the "liminal stage" – that messy, uncomfortable middle place between who we were and who we're becoming. Unlike Western culture, which provides little guidance for these in-between times, Keri offers practical wisdom for navigating these transformative spaces with grace and purpose.

From her solo pilgrimage to Myanmar that forever changed her relationship with identity, to her insights about releasing societal "shoulds" and reclaiming our authentic voice, Keri provides a roadmap for anyone feeling stuck, disillusioned, or ready for profound change. She reminds us that our purpose isn't some external achievement but authenticity itself – living true to our values regardless of whether it fits neatly into societal expectations.

Whether you're in the throes of midlife transformation or simply questioning the path you're on, this conversation offers compassionate guidance for breaking free from limitations, embracing uncertainty, and finally living life on your own terms.

Keri Mangis is more than just an author and speaker—she’s a guide for those seeking deeper meaning and transformation in a chaotic world. With over 20 years of experience as a wholeness advocate and spiritual teacher, Keri understands the frustration of feeling stuck and disconnected. Through her writing and teachings, Keri helps people break free from limiting beliefs to rediscover their true essence and align with their core values.

Her spiritual and personal growth studies and certifications have run the gamut over the years from yoga, Ayurveda, energy work, and meditation. Most recently, she has taken on studying Alchemy, Jungian Psychology, archetypes, and rites of passage. She has completed courses with Sharon Blackie, Michael Meade, and the Center of Applied Jungian Studies.

She is a current writer for Spirituality and Health Magazine, and a top 50 writer at Elephant Journal. Her first book, Embodying Soul: A Return to Wholeness, received multiple awards, including the 2020 IPA award for Mind, Body & Spirit and the 2020 Readers’ Favorite Gold Medal in Non-Fiction Spiritual and Supernatural. She is currently working on her second book, an illuminating exploration of personal and collective transformation that will empower readers to evolve their consciousness for an uncertain future.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey friend, welcome to the halfway to dead podcast.
I'm your host, jen Lovell.
Listen, you and I have reachedthat age where we are done with
the bullshit.
We know that midlife is ourchance to flip the script and
experience life on our own terms.
It's time to reconnect with ourhigher selves and reclaim our
inner peace.
Are you ready with an openheart and an open mind?

(00:26):
Awesome, you're in the rightplace.
Hop in and ride shotgun with meon this midlife spiritual
journey.
Hey, hey, friends.
So if you're just tuning in forthe first time, welcome.
Welcome If you've been on thisjourney with me for a little
while.
Thank you so much.
No, really, I appreciate youguys.
I know that lives are busy andthere's a lot going on in the

(00:49):
world, especially right now, andso for you to take a little bit
of time to listen to little oldme and my podcast, it really
does mean a lot, okay, so thankyou.
Thank you, let's talk abouttoday.
So today I interviewed KeriMangus.
She's a current writer forSpirituality and Health Magazine
and a top 50 writer at ElephantJournal.
Her first book, embodying Soul,a Return to Wholeness, received

(01:12):
all kinds of awards, you guys.
She's currently working on hersecond book, an Illuminating
Exploration of Personal andCollective Transformation that
will empower readers to evolvetheir consciousness for an
uncertain future.
So Carrie is more than just anauthor and speaker.
She's a guide for those seekingdeeper meaning and
transformation in a chaoticworld.

(01:34):
With over 20 years ofexperience as a wholeness
advocate and spiritual teacher,carrie understands the
frustration of feeling stuck anddisconnected.
Through her writing andteachings, keri helps people
break free from limiting beliefsto rediscover their true
essence and align with theircore values.
She's certified in all kinds ofstuff, you guys Everything from

(01:55):
yoga, ayurveda, energy work,meditation.
She's started taking on alchemy, archetypes, rituals.
She knows a lot of stuff, youguys.
So today we're going to talkabout her book.
We're going to go through, kindof some of the lessons she went
through and some things in herbook we talk about.
Mainly, we go into that midlife.

(02:16):
It's only a crisis if you makeit one Okay.
It's a transformation, you guys, we got to reframe this whole
midlife thing.
We are not in a midlife crisisand we talk a lot about what
that means to us, to both of us.
We both talk about it.
So let's jump in and hear allthe cool stuff that Keri and I
talked about.
Hi Keri, thanks for being herewith us.

(02:37):
Hi, jen, I'm so glad to be here.
So I just got done tellingeverybody a little bit about you
, but I think where I want tostart is with your personal
midlife spiritual journey, whichI feel like is mirrored in your
first book.
Right, it definitely is.
It definitely is mirrored inthere.
And yeah, so I told you guysher book's called Embodying Soul

(02:59):
A Return to Wholeness, and it'skind of it takes a minute to
figure out what's happening,Keri, right, and it's kind of it
takes a minute to figure outwhat's happening Keri, right.
But then once you're in, you'rein because she kind of goes back
and forth, I want to saybetween like would you call it,
two realms Between our life hereon earth and also where our
soul's hanging out like a soul,spiritual type realm.
So we go back and forth andshe's got a name for her soul

(03:22):
and some of her spirit.
Would you call them spiritguides that you've named Like
angel spirit guides?
Yeah, my soul guide, your soulguide.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So she's got different namesfor them in the book, so they're
kind of characters in the book,which is cool.
Absolutely, I bring them all tolife.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
I mean, if you've ever.
And here's how my soul looks atthat.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, because we're always in conversation with our
soul and ourself, right, so youkind of bring it to life in the
book as a real conversation.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, that we can eavesdrop on almost yes exactly,
and it was fascinating becauseI hadn't done any of that kind
of work before, where you justbasically write to a higher
version of yourself essentiallywhat it is, and it was crazy
because I have these storiesthat you know to me were so
painful and so hard and soembarrassing, and then you put

(04:16):
it through the filter of yoursoul and your soul's like thank
you, Carrie.
That was a very cool experience.
I learned so much, I exploredso much.
I really feel like this isexactly what I wanted when I
said you know, I'm going to gobe a human being Like, yeah,
this is it.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
You start to see like , oh, there's a purpose to all
this BS that I've been doingthis lifetime.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
I was supposed to learn some things, I guess.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
huh, if everything's perfect, we're learning nothing,
so yeah, it kind of helps youreframe.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
It's all in the reflection.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yes, it's all in the reflection and the reframing so
that you can appreciate thingsand bring it forward.
We're going to talk a littlebit of the book and then we're
going to move to a millionthings because Carrie's got
little insights in everything.
So try to hit on as much as wecan today.
But so in the book you talkabout you, go through different
things because you talk to yoursoul, but we also hear life

(05:06):
stories about you and all ofthat.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat led up to the purge.
Was this part?
Because this was a big part ofyour soul, part of the journey,
right, boy?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
yeah, you're going deep Doing the work, doing the
work in the purge.
Well, yes, I mean, you knowit's so interesting because I
just finished listening to yourepisode with Karen the yoga
teacher and our I couldn't, Icouldn't believe how much our
paths aligned because I too, youknow, took that first yoga
class and then just dove in andbecame fully immersed.

(05:42):
Yeah, and it you know, I don'tknow, I don't know how, but it
changes you.
And I think, partially honestly, it's so simple because it's
quiet and when things are quiet,you hear your own voice more.
And when you hear your ownvoice more, you kind of start to
realize, my gosh, like there'sa lot of chaos going on in here

(06:03):
and there's a lot of unresolveddialogues in here.
And wait a second, is thatactually my mother's voice or my
voice, or where is that comingfrom?
Look at that self-doubt.
And so all of that light startedshining on my life and I was a
young mother and I was trying tofulfill societal expectations,
be a good mother, be a good wife, you know.

(06:24):
And I wasn't in the corporateworld at that time, but I had
been, and so I was kind offacing this well, who am I if
not in the corporate world?
Who am I if I'm not bringing inlots of money?
And so I think, just over theyears of practicing yoga and and
there was so much to take inRight, and I think there and

(06:47):
there was so much wisdom andthere was so much new
perspective and what about this?
And I think that there's justthere's only so much ability for
us to hold multiple things atonce, and so for any of these
new beliefs to come in, a lot ofold beliefs had to go.
Oh yeah, we got to make room.
Either that or I was going tohave to quit yoga, because yoga

(07:09):
continued to challenge a lot ofmy existing beliefs.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
What were your existing beliefs?
Yeah, tell us about how youwere raised.
What religion were you raisedin?

Speaker 2 (07:21):
So kind of a non-practicing Protestant, so we
didn't go to church very often,but that doesn't mean that the
principles of the Christianreligion didn't still make their
way in me.
You don't have to go to churchevery single week to still
understand the basic messages.
And the basic messages that Igot were that God is watching

(07:43):
you all the time and I think Iwrite about this in the book and
I know that that message for alot of people is so reassuring
and comforting oh, god is withyou all the time.
For me it was like paranoia.
I was so afraid of beingwatched 24-7.

(08:05):
And then I thought, oh my gosh,he can read my thoughts, oh,
and then all of a sudden I'mswearing on purpose in my brain
just to see if it's going tocreate trouble, like lightning
bolts coming down from the skyor something, and I think that's
part of the religious part,isn't just our beliefs.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
There's a lot of good beliefs in there, but I think
they make it a little bit scary,a little bit too scary
sometimes, a little bit toojudgmental, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
And especially when you're a young person and you
were young, when you were reallyyoung, like you were free and
you played and there wasn't badand good, there wasn't really
right or wrong.
I mean, those are the thingsthat we learn as we grow older.
And then religion comes alongand really says there's good and
there's bad, and there's heavenand there's hell.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
And we're going to tell you exactly what to do and
not to do.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes, Yep.
And here yoga came along andsaid I mean and I credit to all
of my teachers my teachers werenot just teaching poses, they
were teaching the philosophy.
So I was, through taking yoga,I was studying deeper
philosophies, and I was studyingHinduism and Buddhism without
really knowing it Right.
And then you get to this pointand you're like well, but if

(09:16):
that's true, how can this betrue?
If karma is a thing, how canthis be true If we're chanting
to Ganesh?
Well, now am I going to get introuble over here?
And so that's what I thinkabout.
As all of these new beliefscame in, it challenged all my
old beliefs and something had togive.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yes, because it manifested also for you and for
most of us.
It manifests sometimes in somedifferent forms of just we label
mental illness, we label itanxiety, we label it depression,
we label it all these thingsright.
So we make it really into likean us problem, like we really

(09:55):
store all of that junk deep inour bodies, right?
Like all the emotions wepathologize it, which is exactly
right, because I think you'vetalked about how, how, we're
expected to control our anger,all our feelings, especially as
women, and we kind of gettowards midlife and we're like
I've stored an awful lot in thisbody and I'm sick, like

(10:17):
physically, mentally, in all theways possible.
I feel ill, yeah, so we have tounravel it, yep.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yep, yeah, and we've been telling ourselves all along
that all of those things thatwe've stored in our body, we're
supposed to just endure that forthe rest of our lives.
We're just supposed to hold it.
And this is particular to womenthat we are taught how to hold.
And I watched my mother do it,I watched my grandmother do it

(10:44):
and I watched my mother do it.
I watched my grandmother do itand I was even taught.
My mother even told me at onepoint because I come from a
family of two brothers and a lotof uncles and my mother always
told me we women are here tokeep the peace.
Well, that job, that job,requires an ability to hold your

(11:04):
feelings, your emotions, youranger, as you say, your
annoyance.
You know, grin and bear it.
Yep, and I am from the Midwest.
I'm not sure where you're from.
I'm from the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Illinois, yep, well then, midwestern.
You know, oh, yeah, no, and wewere brought up not to take up
our own space, right, correct,like because we absorb our own
feelings and everybody else isaround us and we just go with it
.
We're just trying to keep thepeace.
Everybody around is happy,sometimes at our own expense,

(11:36):
yep.
So then you've got to purge it.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
So then, yes, and I think the scene you're talking
about was the scream on LakeAvenue in Minneapolis.
Yeah Right, I think that's thestory.
Well, what happened was is soall of this is coming to a head.
And so I started therapy and Iworked with this woman who, who

(12:02):
saw me, who saw me?
She saw that here I was a womanwith a stoic face, and yet all
this turmoil right under thesurface, and she was not afraid
to just try digging under that.
And she asked me at one point.
She said, carrie, have you everbeen raped?

(12:23):
And I said absolutely not.
And she said well, are you sure?
And she said just so, you know.
You know, it doesn't have to beintercourse for you, and it
doesn't have to be a stranger,and all of these ideas, this is
not always what it has to looklike.
And I said, well, I'll thinkabout it.

(12:46):
And you know, and it wasn'teven like I thought about it,
it's more like my body heardsomebody acknowledge its own
traumas and its own, that allthe times I discounted it and
all the times I'd written it off.
And it wasn't even me anymore.

(13:06):
And my, my husband and I haddinner reservations that night,
and here I was just dressing fordinner and gonna go out and
pretend like everything's fine.
But I couldn't.
I just couldn't.
My body was shaking with withanger and rage and repressed
pain.
And we're talking at dinner,trying to act normal, and I'm

(13:28):
telling him about thisconversation and I'm telling him
about some very real storiesthat suddenly my body remembered
and he was not responding.
He was not reacting, he waskind of just shutting down.
I mean, granted, we're in apublic restaurant when this is

(13:48):
happening and all of a sudden hesays to the waiter we're going
to take that food to go.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, and I'm like what are we doing?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, he's like I don't know what's happening.
And he, he pays, we leave, he'sheading to the car.
I'm following behind him.
I'm starting to feel like anaughty little girl, right, like
what I do, wrong, yeah, what Ido.
And we get in the car and I'mstill going at him.
I'm still.
This happened and this happenedand I need you to hear me.

(14:20):
I need you to hear me.
And his hands are just on thesteering wheel and I couldn't
take it anymore.
I just began screaming at thetop of my lungs, over and over
and, over and over again andthis is the story in the book
and I couldn't stop.

(14:40):
Once I started, I just felt sogood.
It felt like such a relief.
It was coming from the pit of myessence.
You know it's clearing out andmy husband the whole time.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
He was like what's happening, what do I do?
He didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
He didn't know what to do.
And then it was finally over,and then I was of two thoughts.
Number one oh my God, I feel somuch better.
Oh my God.
Oh, this is incredible andshame.
My husband's going to divorceme.
What did I just do?
This is not okay.

(15:21):
This isn't the woman he married.
Not okay, this isn't the womanhe married.
And so, finally, we get homeand we had to pay the babysitter
and I stayed in the car whilehe did that because I couldn't
go in.
And then he comes back out andhe opens my car door and he
holds his hands out and he picksme up and he carries me hands

(15:48):
out and he picks me up and hecarries me into the house and up
to our bedroom and then hefinally says Carrie, I am so
sorry, and I cried and I criedand.
I cried, and you know, andfinally I said why didn't you
say anything?
You know that was so like why.
And he said, carrie, I didn'tknow what to do.
I just wanted to keep you safe.
I saw you coming apart and Ijust wanted you home and in a

(16:11):
safe place.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yes, that was his mindset.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
He just wanted to get you to safety and then have the
conversation, and then have theconversation but I still
struggled with the fact that hewasn't able to do something more
during that process.
But I have since talked to, youknow, my healers about that and
she has always said you know,carrie, actually if he had said
something in the restaurant, ifhe had been able to meet you say

(16:38):
, it might have stopped theprocess and you might never have
come to the stream and you maystill be holding that today.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, no, it played out.
It played out how it wassupposed to play out.
It sometimes doesn't feel likeit to us when we're in the
middle of something Like why isno one helping me more?
And we're pissed, and thenlater, hindsight, right, we can
look back and say, oh, that wassupposed to all play out like
that.
Yeah, if anyone would help me,then I wouldn't help myself.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and you know, there's nothing scarier than
feeling like you don't havecontrol over your body.
It is a terrifying feeling Forsure, that my body was leading
that and that I couldn't controlit.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, and we have to listen.
I'm sure now you listen to yourbody much more when it tells
you things right, yeah,definitely.
You kind of start to feel itahead of time.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
But there's still, you know, I mean conditioning is
strong, Very strong.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yes, so it's always that balance.
So there's all kinds of storiesin the book.
You guys no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah.
So one thing I didn't get towrite about in that book that
happened right before it isbecause that, so, right at the
time I was writing it.
So I guess I'm backing up justa little bit, first because this
feels like where I wanted to go, yeah, and, and I because it

(18:19):
was a moment where I didn't knowwhere I was going to go next.
I had been, as I said, a yogateacher, but I left that world,
and for a while I was anAyurvedic practitioner and I
left that world Ayurveda'ssister science of yoga
Absolutely.
And so I started this book whenI was kind of in between
incarnations, in between lifepaths, and so I went to Myanmar

(18:44):
for three weeks by myself on apilgrimage, and that is when I
kind of got the message that theencouragement to continue the
book and also the encouragementto really become a writer, to

(19:06):
really become a writer, to notlet this book be the one and
only, but to really allow myvoice and to build a platform
around my writing, which upuntil that point I hadn't been a
writer per se.
And so I think that that bookopened, between that book and
the pilgrimage, opened up thepermission structure within
myself to honor my voice andreally speak to my journey.

(19:34):
But women's journeys, humanjourneys, through all kinds of
transformation, yeah, becauseyou write all kinds of articles.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean we'll have all the links, you guys, but she's
got all kinds of transformation.
Yeah, because you write allkinds of articles.
I mean we'll have all the links, you guys, but she's got all
kinds of stuff she's writingabout, and so okay.
So tell me just briefly alittle bit more about this
pilgrimage, because there'sprobably people listening right
now are like I need me apilgrimage.
I think that sounds amazing.
So you did three weeks.
You don't have to do threeweeks, everybody.
Your pilgrimage doesn't have tobe far away.

(20:03):
It can mean a lot of differentthings to a lot of different
people, but what did yourpilgrimage mean for you?
Did you isolate for three weeks?
What did you do?
Were you meditating?
What were you doing for?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
three weeks.
I did not.
You know what was really greatabout this.
So this is post-ge, this ispost yoga identification and I
chose Myanmar, and probably yourlisteners are like, why Myanmar
?
Because people go to India andmaybe they go to Thailand, but
Myanmar was.

(20:36):
There was this perfect littlewindow where Myanmar was open to
tourism and they were really,really excited to have tourists
and it was really safe fortourists, especially a single
woman, and so that's kind of whyI went there.
It wasn't as touched as Indiaor Thailand, it was a little bit
more.
You know, people hadn't beenthere, but it still had all this

(20:58):
sacredness and it still had allthe temples and it's very
Buddhist there.
And because I wasn't any ofthese other things, I got to go
really free, like a child.
I got to go to Myanmar andreally be so free to just
experience the people and theplaces, without any kind of,

(21:22):
without any kind of expectation,and so I did not meditate or do
anything, silent like that.
I experienced the community, Ispent time with the people.
I went to their homes, I wentto the monasteries, I went to
the nunneries, I went to smallvillages, I went to factories, I

(21:43):
went to temples.
I basically just every singleday was just an experience and I
had a guide, so I was neverreally alone, which was good
because there's Myanmar doesn'thave a lot of English
translations, like they do inThailand.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
I was going to say you got a translator.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
yeah, you do need, yeah, you do need, you really do
need the help and and toexperience things properly, and
I think I got a lot more accessto things because I had, because
you had, the translator guide.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, yeah, so that makes sense and then.
So you're basically just openedyourself up to just learn from
others, everyone in thecommunity.
Was there any one particularmoment that was like, aha, I've
got to change some stuff?

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, yes, it was more like a moment where I
realized that I don't need to beattached to my identities.
My identities aren't who I am.
I am so much more than what Icall myself, what I label myself
or how other people see me,which is how I've been taught to
move through the world,especially in the West.

(22:45):
You know what do you?
do for a living is the firstthing people say to you right In
Myanmar.
The first thing they said toyou is, and translates to have
you eaten yet oh sounds like mykind of place, yeah.
Right.
And so while I'm there, peopleare wanting to give me food,

(23:06):
they're wanting to take pictureswith me.
They're just honoring me for meand I'm honoring them for them,
and it's just this beautifulhuman moment.
And so the one story that I'dlove to share is that I told my
guide I had an itinerary, but Itold him, I said I'm always

(23:26):
willing to go off grid, likewhatever you suggest, I'm here
for it.
And so one day we're drivingfrom one destination to another
and he pulls off on the side ofthe road and there was nothing
there.
I mean, there were trees, therewas a hill, nothing there.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
I mean, there were trees, there was a hill, yeah,
and and I'm thinking is he goingto leave me here?

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Because if he did, you know, I mean.
So I'm just.
I just want to say first of allthis this trip was not without
fear and was not without anxietyand and what am I doing?
It certainly had those things.
So, anyway, I follow him.
He's kind of like, just comethis way.
So I follow him and weeventually make it to this
little small home and he talksto the.
There was a couple of women.

(24:09):
He talks to them and they'repointing to me I can't, I have
no idea.
And eventually they invite mein with a wave and so I come in
and I sit down and there's alittle boy there too, and I get
to meet him and so we'retranslating, they're asking me
questions, they're giving mefood.
I'm sitting on this littlebench and it was just these, I

(24:32):
don't know.
It's probably there for half anhour, who knows?
I didn't have a watch oranything like that.
But you're just, we're justtranslating back and forth and
they're asking me questionsabout America because they're
fascinated and I'm asking themall kinds of questions about
their lives.
And then it was time to go andso I follow, you know, back to

(24:52):
the car.
We get in the car and I said tomy guide, I said how did you
know that family?
And he said I don't.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Oh, he just felt this vibe like I.
I need to bring her up here.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, and just that's how the people are right.
They're so open.
I mean, can you even imaginesomeone knocking on your door
and saying, hey, I've got sometourists here.
Would you let them in?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, can you let a couple strangers in and feed
them and take care?
We don't even go to the dooranymore.
We don't answer our phone or goto the door anymore.
No, no.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
So it was just this complete experience of just
being human and not having to bevaluable because of a service
that I provide, but just thepresence together.
And it just gave me suchpermission, you know, as upon my
return home, and I said yes,then I became a writer, but it
came from a place of desirerather than need.

(25:43):
Yeah, it came from a place ofmy soul rather than my ego.
It came from a place of acalling rather than you know
what's going to make me a lot ofmoney, because I promise,
writing doesn't make a lot ofmoney.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
No, you're doing it.
It's part of your journey, iswhy you're doing it.
Yeah, absolutely, it's part ofthe journey.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
And so, would you say , you came home and kind of were
coming out of a dark night ofthe soul, were you going into
one, coming out of one?
I was right in between.
I would say that I was in whatwe call a liminal stage, like a
time in between.
A time in between, okay between, because I wasn't, yeah, the
dark side of the soul was kindof now past, but I had been in
one and the rebirth was not yetavailable.
So, yeah, liminal, liminal, aspace, they call it like betwixt

(26:32):
, in between, not this, notquite that messy middle, yeah,
which a lot of us are probablyin right now.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Like, if you're listening, you might be in the
messy middle right now.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
It feels messy right now, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 (26:48):
And it's you know I mean.
Chaos brings us into the messymiddle whether it's personal or
collective.
Yes and so yes, and we don'thave a lot of understanding
around liminal spaces in theWest.
No, and so a lot of my writing,as you mentioned, you know it
kind of is all over the place,but there a lot of my writing is

(27:08):
about the stages of life, thebreakdowns, the reflections, the
liminal space and the rebirth.
Yeah, because I think that'swhat you know.
If we can make life feel morecyclical rather than so linear,
then I think that just reallyfrees things up we get really
stuck in the linear timeline,for sure you were just talking
about.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
You write a lot about different stages of life and
for me and most of my listenersand you're in this we're in this
midlife, right, this wholemidlife, and I love because you
said earlier I think I was in amidlife crisis during the book,
but you also say that midlife isonly a crisis if you make it
one, right, right.

(27:47):
So let's give us some insight,because maybe you can help us
figure this whole midlife thingout, keri.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Or maybe we'll just leave it in the messy middle
somewhere.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yes, I mean messy middle's necessary too.
It's all there, right, we'vegot to.
There's no way around it.
We got to go through it.
So how do we not make this amidlife crisis?
What are you thinking?
Because this started for you.
So, you guys, she has anarticle online about this that I
read, and so you talk about howyou were looking up the
definition, who came up withthis whole midlife crisis

(28:20):
baloney and what there was theirtheory behind it, and you kind
of then break it down.
Right, because we hear the wordcrisis and, like you said, we
hear the word crisis and wethink like something's going
down, we got to immediately fixthis right, like this is bad,
bad, bad.
And so I feel like if we canflip the script on that whole
thought pattern, we're going tobe better off here in this

(28:43):
middle part of our journey.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Amen.
I think the first thing that'simportant to know is, in the
Japanese language, the wordcrisis is made up of two
characters.
The first character representsdanger Okay, so that makes sense
, but the second characterrepresents a turning point Okay,
and that has really helped meunderstand what crisis really is

(29:08):
.
I mean, like you just said, wehear crisis, we think we got to
get out of it right away, we gotto fix it.
This is dangerous, but it'salso this incredible opportunity
to reinvent ourselves.
Yeah, this incredibleopportunity to reinvent
ourselves.
Yeah, because what a crisisdoes is it breaks down a lot of
our illusions and a lot of falsebeliefs and a lot of our

(29:30):
conditioning that we've been upto that point living with.
Yes, and the midlife crisis, tome, is just that time where
perhaps we're reaching a purgestage.
Yeah, connect this to earlierright.
Where we're just coming to thispoint where all of these things
that we've been conditioned tobelieve, the ways that we've

(29:52):
been living our lives, we'restarting to question them
because we're starting to seethrough them.
Maybe they're not true, maybethis doesn't work for me and
that breakdown is reallyuncomfortable, yes and so if we
just hurry up and try to fix it,all we'll really do is just
patch that up and we'll justre-fortify those beliefs, right?
We'll?

Speaker 1 (30:12):
just go double down If we mandate it or ignore it.
Some of us just like to buryeven more right, just pretend
it's not happening.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, but you know if my lesson from the beginning of
the show provides any advicethere.
Eventually your body does knowif you're continuing to vary.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
And this is the age we're starting to have chronic
illness.
Our bodies are starting to havesome things going on.
I think we're all starting towake up to the fact that we
don't just need to go to thedoctor and do what he says all
the time.
Right, there's not a pill foreverything, you guys.
Sometimes we have to do thework and start working on
healing stuff and releasingthings, and yeah, it's a lot of
work.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah.
So this idea of becomingdisillusioned at midlife is
really.
It is an opportunity, becausenow you get to say, okay, well,
if I don't believe that anymoreand if I don't believe that, If
I don't believe that anymore andif I don't believe that, then
what?
There's really an opportunityfor more freedom to explore life
in maybe a different way.

(31:08):
And so, if we can resist theurge to just patch it up and fix
it up, if we can find supportand this is what I try to write
about is I try to offer supportfor people who are in breakdown
or crisis, whether it's midlifeor identity or an existential
crisis.
Yeah, that, instead of rushingto fix it, what can we do to

(31:31):
support ourselves through thatbreakdown?
What kind of work can we do assignificant and full of meaning
rather than just disaster?

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yes, Because you kind of talk a little bit too about
how we feel limitations put onus because of probably a little
bit because of our age, right,and because and you go through

(31:59):
she's got some fun stories anddifferent things.
So I identified with some ofthese because you know, our kids
are kind of passing us all upin technology and all the things
that we're turning into likethe old people all of a sudden,
which I never really right wedon't think of ourselves as that
midlife, we're like we're notold yet.
But then you start to see theand you start feeling older.
You just do, you're like, okay,I don't know what that music is

(32:30):
, I don't know what thatinternet, all of this, the
social media, the TikTok.
We're trying to stay in theloop but it's a little tricky
for us Gen Xers.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
But we're hanging in there.
Yes, yes.
So that definition that youwere talking about was from
Elliot Jacques, who was aCanadian psychoanalyst, and he
said there were three thingsthat mark a midlife crisis, and
the first one was, yeah, facingnew limitations.
Yeah, and then I thought, yes,but are they limitations really?
Or is it freedom?

(32:55):
Because, like I say, you know,I don't feel pressured to go out
to dinner with my friends ifI'm not feeling well, I can just
call them up and say you know,I'm not feeling well.
This doesn't work tonight,Whereas my daughters, who are 25
and 23, are still under theinfluence of the peer pressure.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
They're going out whether they want to or not.
Right, they're going to go,that's right.
They're going to be in theircomfy jammies on the couch and
they're going to get all dressedup and go out, because that's
what they think they need to doat 23.
And we know, now it's morelimited.
Yeah, I know, once I get myjammies on and I'm comfy, I'm
going nowhere, like no, and Idon't care what people think,

(33:35):
right?
So sometimes these limitationsthat this dude was talking about
this guy, of course, wastalking about is actually a
benefit we got to flip thescript on all that I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
One person's limitation is another person's
freedom.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes, We've learned enough lessons.
That might feel a little bitlimited, and maybe you are
starting to be limited in that.
Physically maybe you're notwhere you used to be, but that's
okay.
Right, maybe you can't run themarathon anymore Okay, but you
can do plenty of other thingsthat are just as fulfilling.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
And I agree, I think, and you know we're hitting
menopause these do bring aboutlimited, you know, mobility and
oh my gosh, I had frozenshoulder last year.
I had no idea what that was.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
You get up and both of your hips hurt like hell and
you're like what's happening tome, like my hips, right, but
then you just work on the cake.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know, I think these limited possibilities are
sort of, you know, in the bodyfor sure, but in the mind I
think.
Especially I think that there'smore freedom.
That's happening to us atmidlife if we're willing to do
that breakdown work, because mydaughters are not yet at the
place in their life where theyare really questioning the

(34:49):
societal conditioning and thebeliefs that I raised them with
or that the culture raised themwith.
They're not questioning thembecause they're still working
for them right To some degree,they're still working.
Questioning them becausethey're still working for them.
Right To some degree, they'restill working.
And so that's where they aresupposed to be At midlife.
We're supposed to get to thepoint that we say okay, but wait

(35:09):
a second, and through that workwe just I think and that's
where I say our freedom comesfrom and more possibilities.
There's a lot of other thingsgoing on out there.
Everything's not revolvingaround me, is it?

Speaker 1 (35:25):
We got to all connect with the oneness again.
We got to get back all togetherin the old oneness here.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
We need a little of that and we need more sacredness
, and that's the other thingthat I think.
So he mentions in here.
One of the three things is that, you know, the midlife crisis
is marked with more of awarenessof our mortality, but I would
say it's also a time in ourlives where we start to realize
the sacredness of life and wedecide to start bringing more

(36:13):
meaning into our lives.
Meaning into our lives.
You know, human beings are theonly life force that brings
meaning to events that happen,and we do that.
Events don't have meanings inand of themselves, right?
A person graduating from highschool?

(36:34):
That doesn't have meaning untilwe all get together and
celebrate that through ceremony,right?
Yes, and I think, at least forme, I do a lot more of that in
my midlife.
I take time.
For instance, I took mydaughters out to dinner after
their first big breakups becauseI wanted to infuse those

(36:54):
experiences with meaning.
Yeah, and I wanted to have thisopportunity for them to say
here's what I've learned, here'swhat I know now about myself.
You know, here's what I'mtaking away from this, from this
experience, yep, yeah, not justrush past it, and I think
that's a gift of being inmidlife, not a negative.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
No, because it's not about our mortality as our death
like our final day on earth.
It's more about and you talk inthe article even, too, about
it's the death of other thingsthat's more important, the death
of not giving a shit, whatother people think, the death of
right, not caring you even talkabout.
I also watched the death of mydesire to see the good in other
people.

(37:35):
You were like I don't have tolook for the good in other
people all the time.
Do I desire to see the good inother people?
You were like I don't have tolook for the good in other
people all the time, do I,because people aren't all
inherently good.
Instead of just assuming peopleare good, you've made the
switch, and I've kind of madethe switch too.
Instead of just assumingeverybody's good, you just wait
and you see what vibe you'regetting from them.
How are they presentingthemselves, how do I feel about
them, how do they treat otherpeople?

(37:56):
And then you decide is thissomeone good enough to be in my
life or not?

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, how worthy are they of trust?
Yes, I mean, not everybody isworthy of trust.
I mean, when I was young andnaive, I trusted people all the
time.
I mean I thought that that wasa good thing to always trust
people.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
And then you know you trust the wrong people with the
wrong stories and you know youlearn from that I feel like we
stop blindly being led by otherstoo, whether it's, I mean, even
medically, our doctors.
We start to think I think Icould be working on this on my
own.
I don't think I just need thatpill from him.
I think I can take some of thison myself.

(38:37):
I don't have to put my doctoron this pedestal and listen to
every word he says.
Right, Not that we don't needthe doctors.
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying we start tothink a little more
independently also and say, hmm,maybe I should research this,
maybe I can find a more holisticway to add to these benefits or
whatever.
Or you know, we want to.

(39:04):
I mean, god knows, I don't feellike talking about politics but
we start stop blindly listeningto every politician and every
leader and every church leader.
You know what I mean.
We stop deciding that everyoneelse can tell us what our path
is.
We start going, uh-uh, no, I'mcarving my own path now I am not
going to listen to all thesepeople who are deciding what I
should be doing.
So that's a big part of midlife.
We're killing off all thatstuff.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
You know, and having this ability to listen to our
own soul, our higher selves thatis a freedom that comes in
midlife, that I don't know thatyounger people again have that
ability.
They are still sort of stuck inthe yes, the shoulds, the
have-tos, the you know theauthority figures.

(39:48):
I mean hats off to you knowpeople who are experts, but yeah
, they're just human beings too,and so there's always the
opportunity to get the secondopinion or the third opinion.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, no, I mean, I have a daughter who still won't
not cross at the crosswalk.
You know what I'm like, butwait, you're going to make me
walk a block to cross at acrosswalk, but there's no,
literally no traffic.
She's like no, we're not doingyou know, because she's nervous
about again what everyone in theworld's thinking if she crosses
in the middle of a road, right,Breaking a silly rule.
So no, I definitely thinkthere's something to be said for

(40:24):
us bringing that out, becauseyou say it's not midlife that's
dangerous, it's our approach toit.
So it's you guys.
It's all about how we approachthis next phase.
This is up to us.
We have complete control overthis next phase because we
aren't being controlled aboutwhat we have to do for our kids
necessarily anymore, what wehave to do for our partners and
our jobs and our this and ourthat.

(40:45):
Like.
We can start deciding now whogets who and what gets our time.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
That's, we reclaim our own power, we step into our
own power and to our own voice.
And you know, the other thingwe're free of at midlife is the
male gaze.
Yeah, and I mean I remember thefirst time it happened I was
with my young daughters, we werein New York and we were going
to a show together and Iremember this older man, you

(41:13):
know, ogling my young daughtersand I just looked at him and I
gave him the death glare and atfirst he gave me that kind of a
what you're going to do?
Look Right.
But then he kind of rememberedhis wife was right next to him
and you know, pretty quicklyhe's kind of like turning the

(41:33):
other way and I thought, oh mygosh, like it's just, it's so
hard as a mother to see that andto witness that.
But like I just felt my mother,bear instincts just wear.
Because you know, yeah, no moreis it, I don't have to deal
with that anymore, I can walkdown the street, I can walk by
the construction workers, theydon't bother me anymore.
Great, no, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
I'm free.
Well, yeah, and we don't worryas much about how we look.
Every minute of every day,before we leave the house, we
have to do a three millionthings to ourselves.
We start breaking free of allthat.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Still working on it, I used to be the person every
single morning.
You know the shower, the fancyclothes, like the makeup every
single day.
I don't even know if I'veshowered yet today.
I'm like, wow, this is kind ofcool.
I like this.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
So we're switching from midlife crisis to just a
midlife transformation.
We're just morphing, we'retransforming, we're coming out
of the old cocoon.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Now, right, we're going to do the next thing.
Well, that's right.
I mean, the metaphor of thecaterpillar is always perfect
here, right?
So because you can't.
You know, you don't get to be abutterfly unless you break down
completely.
And that's for us too, and Ithink that's the part that we
miss as human beings, is we missthat.
You know, we want the rebirth,but we don't want to go through

(42:47):
death to get it.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
So let's talk part about whatKeri does here, because you have
a couple different things thatI saw online.
I downloaded them, so I've gotthem, I'm working on them, but
the first one and I think thishelps every age, but midlifers
especially is your freeself-talk assessment.
Okay, so tell us about that,because you download this and it

(43:11):
gives you the questions whenyou start asking ourselves right
, yes, yes, yeah, I don't thinkthat we even.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
I always imagine that if, at the end of the day, you
got a ticker tape right Like areceipt from a grocery store,
that listed everything that youthought and said to yourself
throughout the day, yeah, Ithink we'd be shocked just to
see how much we, how muchdialogue there is, how much old
content is coming back, how manymemories we're revisiting Well

(43:42):
yeah, and how terrible we treatourselves.
And how terrible we treatourselves Because if we said all
the things, to others.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
we said to ourself we would not be their friend
anymore.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
No, no, and I would say that not only are we too
hard on ourselves, there isanother part of our brain that
is too easy on ourselves as well.
Okay, and what I mean aboutthat is that's the part of
ourselves that's always makingexcuses for our behavior rather
than learning and growing.

(44:14):
So instead of saying why did Irespond that way?
What was behind that?
We say, well, I responded thatway because they did this, yes,
and we just.
So it's both right, it's thedialogue in our mind is both,
you know, self kind of makingourselves feel better for things

(44:35):
we're not willing to look atyes and yeah and self degrading.
You know, guilt and shame areone thing we didn't talk about.
From my book is there's all myemotions are in there to every
emotion and they all get a voice.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Every anger, everyone's got a voice.
You know, there's a lot ofcharacters in this book.
You guys, you gotta, you gottafigure that whole thing out,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
And that's, you know, that's the whole self-talk,
right.
And so what I did in that bookis I kind of identified well,
that self-talk is coming from myguilt, that self-talk is coming
from my shame, and they liveinside us, this guilt and shame.
That's probably since childhood.
So the self-talk assessment isjust that first step to say,
okay, like I just going to takea sliver, I'm just going to take

(45:22):
a brief look at you know whatI'm saying to myself, yes.
And then from there, and thisis up on YouTube now, so maybe
we can put it in the notes,because now I have a.
I have a free five daydayself-talk workshop, essentially.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Oh, it's a five-day, okay, because you have a
five-week program, but this isthe five-day program for
self-talk.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Let's just say it's five steps.
So if you want to take a weekfor each exercise or you want to
take a day for each exercise,it just depends on your timing.
But now that it's up on YouTube, it's really flexible.
So wait, is this your?

Speaker 1 (45:58):
five-week program, the your Life, your Terms.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
That's different.
That is even the next step.
That's oh, we got steps, okay,because I did download, because
you also have this littledownloadable, your free crisis
guide, and that's got eightlittle steps in it for to help
you when you're in crisis mode,right, yeah, when sitting in the

(46:20):
van, okay.
And so that's got eightdifferent things that you can
work on.
And then when you get to thatpoint so you're saying that then
we also have a five-day program, assessment-type program.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Yeah, I call it a challenge, it's a challenge Okay
.
And that's on YouTube andthat's free, and so every single
day is.
Let's look at another aspect ofour self-talk, and it comes
with exercises and it comes withmeditations, different
meditations, like self-guided,like guided meditations.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Are they guided?
They're all guided, all guided,perfect.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yep, Yep, and they're all a little different, and so
it's.
You know you get it's like asampler.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
No, I love a good sampler, because then you can
get an idea for if Carrie's agood match for you, right.
And then if you get to thepoint where you're like, okay,
I'm doing the work, I'm doingthe work, I'm liking this, I'm
liking this mode, then that'swhen you can sign up for your
five-week yes for the course.
Tell me a little bit about thiscourse, because you have one
coming up soon.
It starts very soon in May,like May 1st.

(47:28):
You have it coming out, I do.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
May 1st.
Yes, we're starting your Life,your Terms.
It is a five-week course thatit does take us through this
whole process.
We're just talking about thatbreakdown stage, that liminal
stage, and the rebirth stage.
We do it a little bitdifferently, but that's the

(47:50):
model we're going through.
So at first we're just going toexamine what kind of societal
myths and cultural conditioningare we caught in?
What are our beliefs?
What are we saying to ourselves?
That's where the self-talkpiece is incorporated, there.
And then we continue to justget deeper and deeper into our

(48:12):
own truths.
You know what are my coretruths, what are my core values?

Speaker 1 (48:17):
How do I?

Speaker 2 (48:18):
want to be in this world that may or may not be
falling apart.
How do I want to align myself?
Do I want to continue to havemy attention controlled by
external forces, or do I want tofind my own inner alignment and
know my truth?

(48:39):
Right, but you can't do thatwork.
You can't live from that placeuntil you at some point write
down what your values are andreally commit to them.
You know we all have values, weall have principles.
But how many times throughoutthe day do we touch base with

(49:01):
them and say am I in alignmentwith my principles?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
It sounds like it would make it easier when we're
making decisions Like what areyes things, what are no things.
We got to get to know ourselvesbefore we know for sure what
that is.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I mean, I've always said you know, what's the point
of having values and morals ifit never creates any hard yeses
and hard no's in our lives, ifit never finds us on a hill to
die on, if it never brings us toa point where we have to put
down a firm boundary?
Yeah, absolutely that's the workof this course.
So it's deep soul work.

(49:36):
And then once we know whatthose are, then we start to look
for other sources and otherways to support us from this new
place of our values, so thatwe're not still again.
Right now we're living in anattention economy I think that
term is becoming kind of popularwhere our attention is being

(49:57):
pulled in a hundred differentdirections, kind of popular
where our attention is beingpulled in a hundred different
directions, and it doesn't haveto be.
We can find our focus and thenwe can live in alignment if we
have the right support and ifwe're in connection with who we
really are, and then life gets alittle simpler.
From that point it's not sooverwhelming, we don't get so

(50:18):
tired.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
We can't fight all the battles for sure.
We need to each figure out whatbattles like maybe are on our
own path and leave everybodyelse on theirs, doing their
thing.
Like you said, feeling what ourbody feels.
We got to start getting to knowwhat our real values are, what
we really believe, not what wewere taught to believe, and then
we can get closer to that.
Okay, so we figure all that outand then you help us figure out
what to do.
Then what do we do?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Well, I mean, I think , once you're living your life
on your terms, those answers areyours.
Yeah, now you're in touch withthat.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
You know what do I do .
So the five-week program is toget you to that point.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
To get you to that empowerment place.
I am a teacher and a guide whoseeks to empower people rather
than lead them.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Empower you to make your own decisions, do your own
stuff.
Yeah, we don't need any moreleaders.
We got this right.
We can figure out what we needEspecially false leaders.
We can do away with all thefalse leaders.
No, let's just lead ourselves.
But okay, so we get to thatpoint through the five weeks and
then do you.
During that five weeks, isthere some one-on-one time with
you?

(51:29):
Is it all group?
Is it self-led?
Like what's the five weeks looklike?

Speaker 2 (51:34):
So the one-on-one is optional.
But then we have a group.
I have something called theAlchemist Cave.
That is inside the program thatyou get to be a part of once
you join the program.
So it's a safe community.
It's not on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
No, it's private as much as everyone in the program
you don't have any you-whoscoming in with their trollism.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
No, because we learn so much in community.
We learn so much throughreflection.
And then there's live meetingswith me once a week where we do
meditate, where we do talk,where we do reflect, and then
there's homework, and it's oneof those programs where it's not
rigid.
You take it as far as you wantto go.

(52:17):
I mean this work to live mylife on my terms.
I feel like it's taking.
I mean, I started my yogajourney when I was 30.
So I'm 52 now and I feel likemaybe I'm starting to live my
life on my terms.
Well, that's 22 years.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, five weeks we're not going to get there.
No, this is not an overnightthing, but a lot of people
listening have been on a journeya while too, and maybe at that
point they're ready to do alittle bit more intense work,
right?

Speaker 2 (52:46):
And that's where there's levels in each stage
where, yeah, I've already done alot of that undoing or I'm
already in a breakdown.
Everything I used to believe isalready gone.
Now what?

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Now what I'm already in liminal yes, okay, I like
this, the liminal stage.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I'm excited about that and I'm excited to.
I'm excited to offer it at thistime, just in the culture,
because I feel like there is somuch uncertainty and people do
feel unmoored and I feel likethere's that tendency to want to
find somebody to connect to.
Yes, and rather than reallydoing this work and making this

(53:26):
right here, you and you the mostimportant connection.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
So do you feel like, of the group members you've had,
is it a pretty cohesive group?
What am I trying to say?
Like is it the kind of groupwe're looking at?
Like if someone's thinkingright now, is it kind of group
we're looking at?
Like if someone's thinkingright now, is this group for me,
Because that's, we get nervousabout that, joining a group,
it's not necessarily, you know,it's not necessarily all
spiritual people I mean.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
So I, you know, I have that background of a yoga
teacher right, so I tend to havea lot of people that also have
kind of that spiritualbackground.
But since I've branched outover the recent years, I feel
like so is my community, and Ithink now I am just welcoming
people at any stage and I feellike that's more.

(54:10):
What we're getting is morepeople who are probably over 40,
a little disillusioned withwhere their lives are, feeling
like they're kind of tired ofmeeting other people's
expectations, they're tired offollowing rules that they never
wrote, you know.
So, I guess, tired and maybefrustrated, but still longing

(54:35):
for deeper meaning and purpose,Still feeling like they really
love this world and want tocontribute to it in a way that
is unique.
Instead of, well, I shoulddonate, I should march, I should
yeah, you know all of thosethings, a lot of those should
start getting really exhaustingby midlife.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Oh yeah, you got to figure out what we want to do
now, like, where do we want todo now?
Like, where do we want to putour time and energy?

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yes, and getting out and under from those shoulds.
We need support to help us dothat.
Sometimes it takes somebodyelse saying you know what, you
don't need to do that for us tohear it.
So sometimes all of thoseshoulds, we just get buried
underneath them and we don'teven realize, like, what kind of
an influence they have on us,the kind of weight, the kind of

(55:24):
you know undertow they reallyhave on our lives and the drag
right.
So, somebody else yeah.
So somebody else says, oh, isthat really something you want
to do?
And you get a chance to say,well, no, but I feel like.
I should, and yeah, it's justamazing.
It's amazing freedom and it's.

(55:45):
You get clarity, you get focusand you get alignment, and I
can't think of three things thatare more important right now
than clarity, focus andalignment.
So I'm not promisingenlightenment, I am not

(56:05):
promising bliss, I'm notpromising eternal happiness, I'm
not promising we're going tosolve all the problems, but if
you have alignment with yourvalues, if you have focus, so
you know which direction you'regoing.
And then what was the thirdthing I said Alignment, focus

(56:27):
and see this is the midlife one,I know Clarity, clarity and
clarity.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Well, that makes sense.
That was very.
We got there, we found theclarity.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
No.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, and I think if we can have all three of those
things, then we can lead ourlives more authentically, which
is our purpose.
That's the whole reason we camehere was to be authentically
who we planned on being andwalking the path we meant to,
and we're most of us have veeredoff, can.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
I please go on a tangent on that Sure Tangent
away, because you said, you know, because you said it so
beautifully, that to liveauthentically is our purpose and
that's so different again, froma lot of us are stuck in these
ideas that purpose is a thing,purpose is a noun.

(57:20):
My purpose is to be a no in theblank right, whereas what you
said and I think is so beautifuland so true, is our purpose, is
authenticity.
Yes, that may or may not fitinto any box, any label, any
title, it may not even becompletely understood on this

(57:40):
planet at this point in time,but that's it, that's our
purpose.
It is that simple and thatpowerful.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Absolutely.
Things seem to all line upbetter when you're living
authentically.
Anyway, you guys, your pathseems to get easier, would you
agree, when you're okay.
Not always easier, becausebeing authentic can be freaking
hard.
Okay, if you're not with whatyour societal norms are in your

(58:11):
area or within your family unit,within your community, whatever
it is right, your church,whatever you're doing right now,
you might be breaking free andit might be a little bit painful
to be authentic.
I'm not saying it goes without,but once you get to the other
side and you're livingauthentically, you've broken
through some of that.
You've figured out, like yousaid, you've gone through the
five steps.
You know what you believe, whatyou don't believe, what's
important to you, what's notimportant to you anymore.

(58:32):
Then it gets easier, becausethen we're walking our path, the
right one.
Yeah, easier, because thenwe're walking our path the right
one.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Yeah, yes, that's what I think and you know, and
it takes a lot of courage tolive a life of authenticity and,
like you say, especially in thegroups that we are, that our
upbringing yes, and especiallyif we're making that transition,
if we're transforming whilewe're still relating in those
communities, it really can bechallenging Because some people

(59:01):
will not understand what you'redoing.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
You guys, people won't understand what you're
doing If they've never done thisspiritual journey thing or
thought about or are not goingto go off the normal path.
They were taught as children.
They aren't going to get it,and that gets to be a little bit
hurtful.
You have to remember they're ontheir path, it's okay.
It's okay they don't get it.
They're not supposed to get ityet.
Maybe, right, this isn't theirlifetime to get it.
I don't know, but it can be alittle bit painful.

(59:26):
Yeah, I've had people ask me.
So do you still think, are youstill able to pray to God?
And I'm like what are you evensaying?
Like, yeah, you're not gettingthis at all.
What do you mean?
Do you think I have a bunch ofupside down crosses in my house
and I'm doing like devil worship?
What are you all thinking outthere?
Like no, and I have to explain.
I don't know where you got thatfrom, but I am totally closer

(59:50):
with God, the angels, jesus, allthe people that you're.
Okay, I'm closer with them.
Now.
It's hard for them tounderstand that, right, because
it's not in the way that theywere taught through the church
and the beliefs don't line upperfectly with whatever religion
they're in, and that's a partof Christian Muslim.
Everybody that's everybody'sgot their own thought process of

(01:00:12):
why they're right and the otherone's wrong, and my belief is
everyone's right.
We're all heading the samedirection.
Cut everybody a little slack.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
You do, you, you know , I think that's.
I remember when I first started.
You know my transformation inthose uncomfortable early stages
where it's just awkward andyou're trying to.
You're trying to speak fromyour more authentic voice,
you're trying to live your moreauthentic life, but you kind of
do still get pulled back to theinfluences of your youth and I

(01:00:45):
remember my brother once sayingto me you know, you're not fun
anymore.
I'm like, well, just becauseI'm not drinking the way I do
there it is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
That's what it was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could befine without being without
alcohol.
You got like and I'm notcutting on anyone who's doing
whatever you're doing out there,I don't care.
Like, are you being a goodperson, are you being kind?
Ok, those are more important tome than if you're drinking
alcohol, smoking pot, whatever.
You don't care Like, that'syour business, it's your path.
I'm not here to judge it, but ifit's something, that's going to

(01:01:19):
interfere with me and my pathand my life, then I have to make
decisions.
If you're a part of my life ornot, right, we get to make that
decision.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Well and I mean I'm not going to lie that definitely
during my transformationprocess your friend circle
changes too.
It just kind of has to, and itdoesn't mean anything negatively
towards the people who leaveyour life.
It just means that you areentering another life stage and

(01:01:48):
so you need different kind ofsupport at this life stage.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Which brings us right back to this little group you
have.
That might be a place where youguys can find some of your
like-minded people, because wetalk about finding our tribe
during this journey to make iteasier Like-minded people who
aren't going to look at youfunny when you're talking about
this stuff.
They're going to be open andyou're going to have really good
conversations.
Yeah, so that means onlinegroups are really good for that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Nothing more fun for me than when I start talking to
somebody and they know what theliminal stage is.
I'm like oh, we both know wehave a liminal stage.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I kind of learn more about the liminal stage now that
you've been bringing this up.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, I think it's.
You know, it's the leastunderstood, but I think it's
also the most potent, becausewhen we're in the liminal stage,

(01:02:45):
when we're in that space inbetween, we're closer to what's
called the imaginal world thanwe ever are in any other stage
of life.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
And when you're closer to the imaginal world,
well, you're closer to thebuilding blocks, you're closer
to the realm of ideas.
So the liminal stage is you'resaying it's like the messy, the
messy in between.
It's the messy middle.
It's the messy middle.
I feel like we all spend a lotof time there.
So we should learn about it.
I think we spend a lot of timethere.
We should should learn about it.
I think we spend a lot of timethere.
We should probably figure thatout.
So, guys, carrie has a secondbook coming.

(01:03:09):
It's going to be really good.
It's not pre-released yet, butwhen you're perusing her website
, doing a deep dive on Carriehere, sign up.
There's a spot to subscribe tobe updated and so when the new
book, it'll give you a littlesynopsis of what it's going to
be about and then you'll get.
You'll be on the list to findout when there's more
information to be had.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Okay, yes, yes, and it is.
I mean, in a nutshell, it iseverything we're talking about
today.
It is about the life cycle.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Yes, it's about the next step in all of this, the
next life cycle and all that.
I have one more question, justout of my own curiosity your
logo is this snake.
Is that new?
Or what's the snake mean to you?
Because it is now you're asnake.
We're in the snake years, it isso, but how long have you had
that and what's the snake meanto you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Oh, I'm so glad you asked that question.
So, going back to like 2014, Irebranded myself, and I
rebranded myself with theOuroboros, which is the snake
eating its own tail, which isn'tquite the logo you're talking
about.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yes, it was a little bit different.
I saw that one too, though yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Yeah, you probably saw it too, because I'm kind of
in transition, and the reason Ipicked that logo back in 2014
was because this was shortlyafter Myanmar.
This was shortly after myrealization that I am not my
identity.
I am constantly changing,constantly transforming, and so
that logo really fit.

(01:04:30):
And then, but yes, so.
So there you can still see thatlogo in some places, because
I'm kind of in mid transition,because earlier this year I
decided I needed an update and Ididn't know exactly what it
needed.
I wanted to change the color, Iwanted to give it a refresh,
and I reached out to a logodesigner and I just gave her

(01:04:50):
carte blanche with it.
Yeah, I said, tell me what youthink.
And so she took my originallogo and now the new logo.
It's not the Ouroboros anymore,but now the snake is awake and
its head is up.
Okay, it's not the Ouroborosanymore, but now the snake is
awake and its head is up.
Okay, that's on your websitenow too isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Did you put that on the website?
Already Okay, because I noticedthere was one where the head
was released on its own.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
But then if you go down, further.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
There is still an older one.
You know where it's gettingitself.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yes, yes, okay, so probably yes, so that's still
mid-transition with all of thatOkay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
so this is kind of about you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
So that's still mid-transition with all of that,
but, yeah, and I just loved it.
I thought you know what.
It is the year of the snake, asyou said, and I love the idea
that you know what.
It is time for the snake towake up, yeah, and time for this
power to awaken, time for allof our voices, like a little
Kundalini awakening going on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Keri, You're just coming up the spine there, yeah,
crawling up the spine soon.
Yeah, not getting himself anyharm, okay, well, I just I saw
it.
I always love to figure outwhere people got their cool logo
ideas from, because usually itmeans something to someone when
they pick it.
Yeah, you don't just pick asnake right Like out of nowhere.
Yeah, for your logo, and it'sobviously.

(01:06:00):
It was before this year, thesnake, but I thought, well, what
a cool transition year for youto change it anyway.
Right, it was Everything'swaking up in a new snake and
we're here in midlife sheddingour skin, we get a brighter
color.
Yep, yep, shedding our skin.
Stop eating our own tails.
Yep, it's time.
Yeah, I don't know what I'mtalking about, keri, I just keep

(01:06:30):
talking sometimes, but okay, sothis is what I do, so okay, so
I'm excited about all thesethings.
I'm going to check all this out, because you said it's on
YouTube.
The five day yeah, thechallenge.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
The five day challenge is on there.
The five day challenge is onYouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Okay, so I'm going to put all of the links to
everything we've been talkingabout in the episode.
You guys know I always put themdown in the links along with
Keri's bio if you want to readmore about her, and then you can
do a deep dive and just linkright into her website and
everywhere else and figure outall the things she offers and
get a hold of this book.
You guys, because it feelsmemoir, it also feels I don't
know, sometimes it feelsfiction-y, which is fun to go

(01:06:58):
back and forth.
You know, an interesting twistfor a memoir self-help book.
But it has a twist to it, right, it's a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Yeah, a lot of my inspiration was magical realism.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Yeah, no, you can tell you can totally tell I'm
like, okay, this is more thanjust a memoir.
So once you first start readingit, guys, I'm just going to
tell you, stick with it, becauseat first you might be like
what's happening?
Like who's she talking about?
I don't understand this at all.
Stick with it.
You're going to figure it out,especially if you're kind of on
a spiritual journey.
You're going to get thesethings.
You guys, you're going to getlike what's you know, when she's

(01:07:32):
talking in the in-between, onthe other side, before she's
getting ready to incarnate backinto this life, and blah, blah,
blah, blah, yeah so, and all herfeelings, well, and they might
even be inspired to come up witha name for their soul, like I
did, yeah, which was really fun,because some people know the
names of their spirit, guidesand stuff.
Some people don't.
You know, yeah, and sometimesthey do.

(01:07:54):
You feel like they don't reallycare if we give them a name,
but we like giving names, so wegive names.
I, I think names matter, yeah.
Yeah, let's talk about yeah, Iname everything.
I name my sourdough starters,keri, so I have names.
Oh, I love that.
I have names for wild animalsthat are in my yard.
I name things, okay.
Well, do you have any finalparting words?

(01:08:17):
You want all of our people toknow Any little small shifts we
be start right today.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
I would just like to say that if someone is
interested in the course andthey're not sure, or if they're
interested in any of my work, Ihave on my on that course page
on my website chance to just geton a 30 minute call with me and
just chat.
And I'd love to just chat withpeople and see if it's the right
place.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Yeah, see if you're a fit.
Yeah, see whether in their lifethey can get a vibe of you know
, because it's sometimesdifferent when you have a
conversation with someone.
Then you're able to read theirvibe better and know, okay, this
person's for me, or likethey're not, or whatever.
And you guys don't be nervous,because sometimes people get
nervous about those callsbecause they're like, okay, if
it's a no, how do I end it?
If it's a yes, you know what Imean it's like oh, it gets a

(01:09:02):
little-.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
There's no pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
It gets a little nerve wracking, you just say
like okay, carrie, I'll be intouch, like whatever you guys
it's fine.
No, because everyone's not foreveryone.
We all know that.
That's why I like to presentlots.

(01:09:25):
Of you do this yeah, this is mythought Like someone's going to
fit with everybody.
We all need help.
Let's find it All right.
Well thank you, I appreciate itso much.
So you guys, get out and readthe book, check her site out,
all the links, all the links tothe free things we love.
Free little things, right,little crisis guide.
We all need a crisis guide.
Are you kidding me?
Especially right now, I feellike there's a new crisis daily.

(01:09:48):
All right, thank you so much.
See you later.
Listen, I know your time isvaluable and right now I'm
feeling super grateful andtotally humbled that you chose
to hang out with me today.
If this podcast resonates withyou, could you do me a solid and
hit that subscribe or followbutton?

(01:10:09):
That's gonna help you outbecause you're never gonna miss
an episode, and it helps me outbecause you're never gonna miss
an episode.
And if you have like 30 secondsmore, could you leave a
five-star rating and maybe leavea kick-ass review.
Thank you so much and I can'twait to continue our journey on
the next episode.
Oh, and I can't forget the fineprint.

(01:10:31):
You know the legal jargon.
This podcast is presentedsolely for educational and
entertainment purposes.
We're just two friends on thisjourney together and this
podcast is not intended as asubstitute for the advice of a
physician, professional coach,psychotherapist or any other
qualified professional, you getit.

(01:10:52):
See you next time.