August 15, 2025 • 49 mins
On today’s episode, Jasmin and Alex continue their conversation and talk about whether Terry or Becky Ives will make an appearance in Season 5 and if Aunt Becky knows more than she’s letting on.
You can find Alex on Instagram at @aman1113
Miscast Cabaret Performance: https://juniorhighlosangeles.com/calendar/2025/8/16/cabaret-23-unofficial-miscast
Scrapped ST Storylines: https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/stranger-things-a-guide-to-the-story-lines-that-almost-happened/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
It's a ham radio. The Cadillac of ham radio.
Hello everyone, welcome back to yet another episode of Ham Radio
(00:23):
as Stranger Things podcast. We've got a great episode for
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(00:46):
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(01:08):
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All right, so moving on to Aunt Becky.
(01:30):
I've always wanted Aunt Becky tobe an interesting character, and
I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Do you think Becky's hiding something, or that she knows
more than she's saying, or she'sjust overwhelmed?
To me, no. I mean I'm interested to see
what your thoughts are, but to me that character was just so.
I thought the actresses portrayal, her performance was
very genuine in that that character was just very
(01:53):
ignorant, but just didn't reallyknow about all this.
So I don't think there's anything ulterior motive wise
there. I just think that she maybe
overwhelmed with taking care of Terry and she didn't really know
all of the information. And when Jane shows up at her
door, I just think that it's very genuine reaction.
So I don't think that she knows more than she's letting on.
(02:16):
I just think that's the way she is.
What do you think? Yeah, I go back and forth on
Becky because on 1st watch, my impression was just that she was
overwhelmed and that she believes the lies of government.
And I told her because she's no reason not to, and that she was
obviously shocked when when Elleshowed up.
And that was a genuine reaction.When she goes to call Hopper and
(02:38):
the police station at the end, Ithink she's just overwhelmed and
she realizes that. She said she would take an L,
but then she realizes that's a lot of work on top of Terry and
that she's just overwhelmed. But I go back and forth because
I've seen people point out that the timeline doesn't really
match up. That what Becky says in season 1
about how the drugs only got worse, the program supposed to
(03:01):
be winding down. And she seems to indicate there
that she thinks that the drug iskind of fried Terry's brain and
that's why she's in this state and that she miscarried and the
baby's not out there. The baby is dead like she
miscarried. But I've seen people point out
that for when Elle was born and when what happened to Terry and,
you know, the lawsuits and everything, like she obviously
(03:22):
has records of that. The basically the timeline's a
bit off there. You think that's what happened?
There's a several year gap in between there because how could
Terry be suing the government and going after them if she was
already in a catatonic state because of the drugs?
The timeline's a bit off there. Oh.
Interesting. But at the same time, I mean, a
(03:42):
lot of that is from Season 1, and I don't know if you've heard
this, Stranger Things was originally meant to be an
anthology. It was not meant to be a series
the way it is now. Interesting.
So the story in Season 1 was supposed to wrap up there, and
that was supposed to be it. And they were going to move on
to other things in the Montauk script from there.
(04:03):
I, I, I take everything in season 1 of the grain of salt
because it was not intended to be a series at that point when
Season 2, it was because it became this overnight smash hit.
And Netflix came back to them and like, hey, can you do a
whole series out of this? And they were like, oh, yeah,
sure. And they'd like call the actions
go, can you guys come back? Yeah, I think there's a few
things like that between the those seasons that just writing
(04:27):
wise that had to be either rewritten or retconned.
And then also like we're even talking this whole episode about
the Lost Sister episode. I just think that some of those
characters in between seasons kind of get muddled, and the
history and the story and the timelines, yeah.
So, yeah, I don't know how much of that is Season 1 was meant to
be standalone or if there's something else going on there.
(04:50):
She says it's just the two of them.
But the same time she seems to be on a fair bit of property
there. So I've seen people speculate,
you know, she paid off by the lab people.
Or did she get some kind of stipend that she thinks is
compensation, but sit down like,well, she's being paid off by
the lab people. I feel like she'd be living in a
nicer place because like, when Gwen sets up the buyer's family
in California, like Wilson, you know, he's been good to them and
(05:13):
they've got a nice home and everything.
So I feel like if the lab peoplewant to keep her quiet, they'd
be living in nicer digs. And she kind of makes it seem
like they're not super wealthy. They're just on their own.
She's Terry's full time caregiver.
But I feel like if that was the case would be a more positive
situation. And I also feel like the
(05:34):
government wouldn't constantly be trying to figure out where L
was if they knew Terry and Beckywas still alive because that
kind of seems like what would you not contact them?
But that does not appear to havehappened.
The only person we've seen Beckyhave contact with is L and Joyce
and Hopper. And I kind of wondered if after
Hopper adopted L that he would send Becky some kind of like
(05:56):
stipend or something to look after herself and Terry, because
we know that he's got money, appears that way.
So I was kind of wonder what thesituation is there.
Yeah, hopefully he would in someway.
But yeah, I could totally also see like Brenner after frying
Terry's brain being like, well, that took care of that
situation, Don't have to worry about that anymore.
(06:16):
And just like letting her be andnot ever giving her any more
thought. And I wonder too, if Owens even
knows that Terry is still alive because Brennis is a type of guy
to me who, you know, if he he, he would probably put like
terminated on her file after they did that.
So I, I would guess that Owens probably thinks that Terry is
(06:37):
deceased and that Al has no other family.
Because I feel like if he knew that Terry was still alive and
what had happened to her, I don't think he would have agreed
to the Neenah project because hebasically goes against his
better judgement because Berner convinces him this is the only
way. And that is the example that
(06:59):
Elle brings up to to Brenner after what he did to her, her
mother. And he's like, well, she brought
a, you know, a gun into a hospital.
She was sick as it was her fault.
And she realizes he's the monster.
And I just feel like if Owens had known that, I just, I think
he's too smart for that. I I don't think he he would have
agreed to the Nina project. Yeah, that's a good point
(07:20):
because yeah, I don't think he would either if he had known.
And I think it's a lot that Owens doesn't know that he
thinks he does. Because we did an episode with
our friends at Star Court study hall.
We talked extensively about the Nina project and what they they
shared with us is that on rewatch, something they realized
(07:41):
is Brenna convinces Owens to do this and he says it's the only
way. But after the whole new project
is revealed and what's happened to Ellis Powers is revealed,
it's pretty obvious that Joyce and the boys could have done
this with Elle in a kiddie pool in the backyard and that would
have worked just fine. Probably would have worked
better if she wasn't freaking traumatized the whole time if
she was with people that like she trusted that there's both
(08:04):
mental and physical component to.
It. Yeah, totally.
And that like a moment. I love that moment where Owens
looks at Brenner and he realizes, oh Frick, I've screwed
up. Like, I thought this was the
way, but is he just doing this to mess with her?
Is this even necessity? Is this even going to work?
And then you find out that it's just basically it's Eldest
(08:25):
unlocking her memories. But because she was already
getting bullied, that stuff was already coming up for her.
Like they just had to play the tapes.
They didn't need to shave her head, drug her, traumatize her
again. They just needed some salt in
the kiddie pool in the backyard and the VHS player.
Like that was all they needed. And I don't think it's a
coincidence that they wait to dothis until both Joyce and Hopper
(08:47):
are out of the country, because no way in hell would they let
that happen. So.
Yeah, that's true. But at the end of the day, it
did work. I mean, yeah, maybe they could
have gone out to the backyard ina kiddie pool and some salt, but
as as much of A monster as he has, she did regain her power.
(09:08):
So there is that. Yeah, she she did get him back.
So yeah, there's lingering questions for me about Becky,
and I don't know if we'll get them answered in Season 5.
I feel like, I feel like they are doing some kind of epilogue
episode, which I hope they are. I feel like there's a lot of
ground to cover there because the rest of the season seems
(09:30):
very like military and like quarantine focus.
So like, I'm curious where your thoughts are on this.
Like do you think that Becky hassome kind of agreement with
Joyce and Hopper about Elle's care?
Like do they have a formal agreement?
Do you think it's informal? Like what do you think the the
situation is there? So I'm not sure if there's any
kind of like agreement between them other than an unspoken
like, yes, I'm going to take care of her, I'm going to do my
(09:51):
best for her, but I'm not sure if there's like a formal
arrangement. Yeah, because I wonder about
that because people have speculated we see Joyce taken
Elle after season 3. We know from Dimitri that there
was a trust set up for a like all of his money went into a
trust for her, which made me wonder if they had some kind of
(10:11):
formal arrangement. Like he did drop paperwork to be
like, yes, and you get custody. Although because Elle is
technically considered legally dead, I don't even know if you
could do that. And that made me wonder like, do
they have a formal agreement? Does he have some kind of formal
agreement with with Becky or is it more of an informal thing
where it's like I can't take care of both of them and she
(10:34):
seems to want to live with you so you know, you take care of
her. And in exchange, he makes sure
that like her and terrier lookedafter because of course there
was race for me is after the buyers are now moved to
California. Is do Becky and Terry know that
she's moved? Yeah.
(10:55):
How much do they know about about recent stuff like that?
She's now in California, that she's living with a whole other
family, that this guy that came here that is supposed to be
taking care of her is now supposedly dead in a mall
explosion. Yeah.
I don't know how much they wouldknow because.
We know that Hopper's death madethe news, so I feel like she
(11:16):
would have at least seen that. So I feel like George had to
have said something. But if she did and they do have
an arrangement in place that makes Becky and Terry vulnerable
if the military ever comes knocking.
So I wonder how much they've told them or if they've been
like, hey, if people come knocking, stick with the she's
dead story for her own protection and her safety.
Because typically speaking, if you're if you're taking minors
(11:41):
across state lines, you have to inform their non custodial
parents and family. You can't just like do that.
That's kidnapping. And I'm like, OK, did they
inform Becky? And what about LON?
And yes he's an abusive psychopath but he also legally
still has parental rights. Will and Jonathan are under 18
at that point. So did they inform him?
Did he terminate parental rights?
Did Owens take care of that for them?
(12:02):
Because like they had the buyersmove to California as if it's no
big deal. But I'm like you cannot take 3
minors to a different state to live without informing their non
custodial parents in biological veil.
You can't just pick them up and move them unless they've
formally terminated their parental rights.
That's kidnapping. You can't just do.
(12:23):
That Oh my goodness, that's so true.
That's like they're moving. Happy ending for them.
It's OK. That's so funny though.
When you said about Hopper's death making the news, the only
thing I can hear in my head was Angela's voice saying what?
Your local paper when I was trying to give her presentation
(12:47):
about her hero, her father who died and Angela is just such a
little bully about it. Yeah, and I I feel like I hate
Angela more than becna honestly,at least becna I can understand,
but Angela was just mean, just rude and also kind of an idiot
because all your local papers. No, from what we see that made
(13:09):
national. Headline.
It was a big thing, yeah. Angel's kind of stupid that she
apparently hadn't heard of this.I know they're in California,
but I feel like, I don't know, 30 people in the chief of place
died in a mall fire in a town that already had a bunch of like
suspicious deaths. Like we see that news story.
I think the three about that. So I'm like, you somehow didn't
(13:31):
know that everything go out of like Hellville, USA.
Missing children and now a mall fire and the death of the yet
chief of police. But I'm sure Angela doesn't see
past her own pretty nose. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
(13:52):
I did wonder coming out of Season 4, do you think we'll see
Becky again? Do you think we'll see Ellen
family visit Becky and Terry again?
I'm not sure. I don't know about Becky
specifically unless it's both ofthem.
I feel like maybe Terry out of the two of them, we could
potentially see again in some way as far as if it's just like
(14:13):
a visit back to her to kind of tie things up at the end.
So I don't know, we could theorize like all day.
I feel like there's always theories every season before the
season comes out of what's goingto happen.
And then somehow, unlike most shows, because a lot of shows
you're kind of able to kind of figure out.
I feel like more than most shows, Stranger Things always
diverts expectations and gives us something that we were not
(14:36):
expecting. Yeah, they are good at that.
You think you kind of got it figured out, and they're
definitely clues along the way, but there's always something
you're like, wow, I didn't see that coming.
Like, Season 4 has their first big twist, which is that you
knew something that's kind of off about that orderly, but you
didn't quite realize how off that guy is.
It's like a slow reveal. And Jamie's so good at it.
(14:57):
He's so good when you're like, there's something slightly off
about this guy, but you can't put your finger on it.
And even though I sense that about part way through, I was
not expecting him to have been behind the massacre.
And it was revealed he was Vector.
I was like, Oh my God. Yeah, definitely.
And then upon rewatch, it gets like, oh, I should have been
able to pick up on that, but somehow, and I didn't.
(15:20):
And then the only thing, having seen that actor in a couple of
projects before Stranger Things,that was my only thought when I
was watching Stranger Things as well.
We've had this actor in such a not a minor role, but he's only
the orderly. It's so interesting.
And then to get the twist, it's like, OK, now I see why they
have this actor. But yeah, to have that twist of
1 is Henry. Henry is 11 is Deckna.
(15:41):
Henry is Deckna. It's like what?
Yeah, and I think it's because Jamie's acting is so suddenly so
good at that. And something we've noticed with
our script series is that in thescript, it's a lot more obvious.
Twist is still there, but characters like Fun and Brenner,
it's a lot more obvious what their intentions are.
(16:03):
But the way the actors finally portrayed them was so much more
nuanced. They kind of keep you guessing
and I credit to them, like, you know, something's off, but it's
still A twist where you're like,oh, wow.
And I feel like people, I don't know anybody who got all, all
the parts right. Some people were like, oh, this
guy's off. Other people were like, oh, I
think he's buying the massacre. He could be back.
I didn't see anybody who got allthree parts from the job, which
(16:27):
again, when you rewatch it, you're like, oh, of course, but
it's not obviously the first time around and it's not
supposed to be right. It's supposed to be A twist.
Yeah, it's supposed to be like figuring it out.
That's right. Yeah, it's like crazy.
And the other thing I think about Season 4 is there's other
stuff that was like that they didn't wind up revealing or they
(16:47):
had to push to five because theyran out of time.
So I feel like that was kind of not an intentional misdirect.
But for example, actress who plays Vicki was Anne Green Gable
was an M with an E prior to being cast, so she was the lead
of her own show for many seasons.
And so I was like, why did she look familiar?
(17:08):
My friend was like, oh, she's fun.
I was like, oh, right. But if we were surprised because
that was kind of a minor role for her and she's kind of a big
deal, why would they cast her? And it turned out that I think
intended to have her be a biggerrole, and they just ran out of
time. So they pushed it to five.
And like, I was just Karen. They focus on her a lot.
And you think she's going to have this like a role in Volume
(17:28):
2 and then not so much. But clearly she's got a big role
in Five, So I think that was part of it where there was
things that they didn't get to play out because they just they
just ran out of time. I don't think they budgeted
their time very well in for SO. Everything just kind of had to
be pushed. I kind of been waiting the the
whole series for Karen for something to happen with her
(17:52):
because the first season on thatshe was actually a series
regular in the opening credits. And I always thought she wasn't
a big enough character to be a regular on the show.
But I think that's just because she's not involved in like the
main mystery of the show. You know, she's just like the
mom the whole time. So I'm waiting.
Obviously we see that she's going to have a big part in
(18:13):
Season 5 and with Holly. But yeah, I'm interested to see
what what happens with her. Yeah, same.
I always thought she was going to get a larger role as well.
And I kind of wonder if they hadher build a series regular and
there was just stuff that they shot and had to cut for time or
for flow. Because again, she doesn't
really play a series regular part up until now, but she's
(18:34):
capable of it and we see her geta really big role in Five.
And the other thing is, I clocked that Holly knew more
than most people thought she wasgoing to have a bigger role in
Five really early. That surprised a lot of people,
but I I clocked that earlier when after four came out and I
was like, I think there's more the holly that meets the eye.
(18:54):
She's smart, she's observant, she's always in the background
like. In the first season, when Karen
brings Holly over to the buyer'shouse and then the lights are
going off and she's following the lights and these characters
are always there, Karen and Holly.
Ted is what he is, but it's so it sounds like obviously there's
something building up. I mean, hopefully.
(19:17):
Yeah, Season 3, she notices the trees are moving with the mind
flare and points them out. Yeah, and all the fireworks and
she's like, no, the trees. And then in four, she's like,
look, it's snowing. Reminds me of The Polar Express
like where the kids can believe the magic but the adults can't,
right? They can hear the bell.
(19:39):
So something like the kids are fully aware of stuff that's
going on in the adults. Like, no, look at the fireworks.
That's fine, don't worry about the trees.
Yeah, and I feel like her siblings and parents are going
to be shocked when something happens, but he's always in the
background before we see give her the Skittles to use her
light bright. But she's again, she's there and
she's still hanging out in the living room.
(20:00):
As far as, you know, for that whole conversation.
The fact that like parent of thecop walk in and they're just
having that conversation. They walk back out.
Holly's in the living room and. I mean, the thing that gets me
is once it was revealed that, you know, he's playing a bigger
role, I'm like, well, yeah. Mike hit Elle in the basement
for a week. Nancy's always having Steve and
Jonathan over. Mike's having all his friends
(20:22):
over all the time, and Holly canhear them.
It's a decent sized house but like she's still there like.
It's like that thing they say that kids see everything when
you have a gun in the house and the kids see, they know.
So I'm sure she's fully aware. We see her even in the first
season when Elle is walking out of the house, right?
And she's looking and Dustin hasto bang the door thing so they
(20:44):
don't look at her. So I'm sure, yeah, Holly, like
the season hears a lot of thingsabout this.
And she's like, oh, the Upside Down.
I know all about that. Yeah, And I feel like because
the rest of her family is truly oblivious, I feel like they're
going to be shocked and everyoneelse is going to be like Will
especially, like, he practicallygrew up there.
He's going to be like, how did you not notice this?
She's always been there. She's observant.
(21:06):
And I mean, that place is practically a hotel.
There's so many people coming inand out of there and spending
the night that Holly's just like, whatever, That's life.
But she's right down the hall. She hears all this stuff.
She's silly. She knows that like there are
people staying over and being hidden and hanging around and
talking about stuff. Like she knows.
She definitely knows. That's so funny.
(21:28):
I was so bummed though when I found when I saw that they
recast Holly because she's goingto have a bigger role.
They want the actress to be capable of performing that I
guess. But I just felt like it's been
the same little girl since sincethe first episode, 4 seasons in.
Now all of a sudden, the last season, we're getting a whole
New Girl. Yeah, I hear you there.
Although I did see there was a behind the scenes shot that Nell
(21:51):
Fisher shared with the twins that played Holly before her and
it appears that they're doing some kind of stunt work.
So it looks like they may be herstunt double.
S in five. I did see something online of
her saying something and then the twins commenting on just
saying take care of our girl andthank you and so obviously they
understand and they are handing the reins over to her.
(22:13):
But at the same time, I don't know, I'm just like, it's we'll
see what happens in Season 5. Maybe it is a necessary recast,
but I thought that maybe with a little direction that these
girls could have portrayed whatever it is they have in the
script, but maybe not. We'll have to see what happens.
Yeah, and I also wonder too, rememberly Deaf Brothers said.
And the way Season 4 ended, I think the original plan was for
(22:35):
them to pick up where they left off and then jump ahead to fall
of 86. I think it was all supposed to
wrap up in 86 and then the otherkids are going to go off to
college, university. That definitely seemed the way
Season 4 was going and everything, he said in
interviews. I think the jump ahead to 87 is
simply because three years passed and the actress had just
(22:57):
aged to a point where it's like no one is buying that they're 14
like. With Holly too, like even in
that final scene of like it's snowing, like she's supposed to
be so much younger than she isn't.
Like, we get it with the way that her costume and her
hairstyle and her minimal lines,she plays as a young child.
But like what Priya Ferguson is like is 1718 now and she's
(23:20):
supposed to be playing so much younger as Erica.
I mean, obviously all the kids across the border playing so
much younger, but especially when you have a character of
Holly that's supposed to be a child and having the actresses
be so much older than the character.
Yeah, So I do wonder if they'd be cast because they realize
they were going to have Flash Forward.
I feel like if they'd stuck with86, they probably could have
made it work. But I feel like maybe we'd flash
(23:43):
forward. They're like, yeah, no ones
gonna like she just needs to look older, jump in the strike I
think did unfortunately like affect a lot of things because
and it seemed like coming out offour, four and five, we're gonna
dovetail. And it definitely feels like
they've had to make changes justbecause so much time had passed.
And well, I'm not crazy about that.
I think it's better than trying to pretend.
(24:04):
I don't know if you watch ModernFamily, but I love that show for
like the first six seasons. But there got to be a point
where the kids started to get older and they were still trying
to do the little kid jokes and it it just didn't work.
And I remember seeing clips online later that like they did
some weird plot with Haley lateron where basically she got back
(24:27):
together, little boyfriend basically to keep her in town
rather than going away to university.
And they started to do stuff like that, which didn't really
make any sense. So rather than having those
characters go off or not be in every episode or aging it up,
they were trying to hang on to that.
And I think you can see that a little bit in three hours
reading an interview the Duffer Brothers did after four came
(24:49):
out. And they said that it was a big
shock to them when all the kids showed up on set for three
because they were writing them like they were much younger.
And but that age, of course, a year or even a few months can
make such a difference with yourgrowth spurts and everything.
And having read that, I was like, oh, that makes sense
because some stuff in three thatdoes feel kind of juvenile and
does feel like a bit of a regression.
(25:10):
And it's like, yeah, if they were writing it like these were
little kids and the kids showed up and they're not so little
anymore, That makes sense. So they made a point to take
that into account for four, which tried to be a really good
idea because by the time they shot 4, the kids were so much
older by like, a good two years that, like, it really wouldn't
have worked. It would have to rewrite a lot
more. Yeah, I think you see that even
(25:32):
in like the costumes, like I waslike at like Dustin and season 3
and his like tiny little clothesbecause they're trying to make
him seem like he's like still this young kid or maybe he had
just had like a growth spurt. So his clothes are too small for
him. But I feel like we see that in
there too. Yeah, or like son and who the
head of costume for season 4. And they said that they had to
likely style Noah Schnop to cover his arms because he had
(25:56):
more muscle on him than you're supposed to have at 14 because
he wasn't supposed to be that old when they shot that.
And so they had to do a lot of stuff with costuming to make
them look younger. And I kind of feel like when
they went to Film 5, they're like, OK, we've done all we can
at this point, but it's time to call it like, no one's going to
buy this. We just kind of age this up a
(26:17):
bit. Yeah, I prefer that I bought
every season. I buy the ages that they are.
I'm never like, oh, they're so much older.
Visually it looks good. Like you're saying those couple
of months when you're those ageshave a growth spurt and you look
completely different. So I buy it.
Especially season 4, seeing themnow we've gone from middle
school to high school. Yeah, you can visually see that
(26:39):
they're older, but like you see a kid and then see him a few
months later and and then like, wow, it's the same thing.
Yeah, so as much as I'm not crazy about the batting and
additional time jumps, I would rather they do something to
address it rather than trying topretend like they all look 14
and no time has passed. So we'll see.
I don't know if you've heard this, but have you ever heard of
(27:01):
the original like Mercy Kill storyline that had planned for
Terry? No.
OK so I came across an article where the strange things writers
account had shared plots that they abandoned and one of them
was that in the original script for season 2 that Elle was
supposed to like mercy kill Terry and that in the end they
wound up like scrapping that andleaving her in a catatonic
(27:24):
state. Oh my goodness.
So what was the like original plan?
So I think what they were going to have Elle do is show up,
realize she's in that state, getthe information she needed and
then basically lose her powers to kill Terry and folk take her
out of her misery I think was the original idea.
Oh my goodness. Yeah, and I'm glad they
abandoned that one because it doesn't send the best message.
(27:45):
Yes, Terry doesn't have a great mode of life, but.
Yeah, and that's not, that's notreally the old thing.
We've seen that she wouldn't harm the cat and obviously she
has killed and she will kill if needed and to protect your
friends or herself. But yeah, that does that seems
kind of against Elle. Character and I think goes back
to like from what I've read about season 1, originally she
(28:06):
was about she was supposed to bea lot more like vicious.
He was supposed to be like just kind of killing
indiscriminately. And then with Millie Bobby Ron's
performance, I decided to make her softer and want to like,
kill in self-defense or like anger, which obviously was a
good idea because it makes her alot more relatable and endearing
as a character. I see that.
I can see that. It's kind of like that Toy
(28:27):
Story, like that Woody was supposed to be much more
resentful about Buzz and kind ofdoing these things that were
evil in a way, but then they kind of changed that.
And so I could see that with Elle having this kid who's been
raised by the government and to be this kind of like killing
machine. I could totally have seen that
(28:47):
that's where the character was going to start out as, but I'm
kind of glad with that. That's not what we got.
Especially Millie Bobby Brown coming in and changing that and
giving her this human side and the performance and and her
shaping the character and reshaping who Elle is.
Yeah, I agree. And I think the first season
would have probably been successful, but I don't know if
(29:08):
it would have become the blockbuster it is because
there's lots of dark comedies orshows out there around stuff
like that. And I think what we all love
about Ella is that she's human. She doesn't want to be in this
situation. And it's her humanity that makes
her relatable. And I, I think the final version
is much closer to, you know, what a soldier would be.
(29:30):
No, this is someone who's trained to kill.
But, you know, doesn't mean I necessarily want to.
And I, I think that that, you know, that's how her and Hopper
relate a lot more because same thing they like, this is a guy
who has sniper training, who's killed people, who the police
officer or soldier for most of his adult life.
And you get the impression I've always gotten from Hopper's a
(29:51):
character that like, he's good at a lot of things.
He's good with a gun, He's good with a knife, doesn't
particularly enjoy it. And that's L that's L2.
Yeah, it's your duty. But it's she'd much rather eat
Eggos and play board games. And he'd much rather play board
games, watch TV. That's what they'd rather be
doing, not out there killing people.
Yeah, same. That's all I want to do is eat
(30:12):
egos and watch TVI mean, but I see what you're saying about it
wouldn't have been as successfulof a show again going back.
What you were saying about it being anthology makes sense had
it been at one and done season storyline and for that Elle
character to be that malicious and vicious.
But then it also goes back to what we were saying about the
Lost sister episode about those characters together.
(30:33):
Just they weren't likable enoughto to maintain more storyline
and more episodes or an entire new series.
So just goes to show things thatchange creatively.
Yeah, I always think it's interesting where they come back
to a character idea. They've done that a few times,
and in each case it's like you were right to abandon that.
The first time they tried to replicate that with The Lost
(30:54):
Sister and with Kali, that did not go over as intended.
A lot of what was originally supposed to be part of Steve's
character went to Billy and Jason.
And I love, I love Steve. I'm a huge Steve fan.
And I love what Joe Carey did with that performance and the
character. And, you know, Steve now is
obviously so much more of a nuanced, stronger, better
(31:15):
character than originally scripted.
But they were able to reuse thatlater on.
And they've they've done that a few times.
Each time like that. I've seen that they've done it.
It's like, yeah, you made the right call.
This actor is meant to play the part this way and you want to
reincorporate that. You bring in another actor who
can play it that way. They're there for a limited
time, they do that role and thenthat's it.
And I think the Lost Sister kindof taught them that because the
(31:39):
other characters where they've done that with don't stick
around for too long. They're great, they're really
good at it, but they don't stickaround because they're not meant
to. They realized, OK, this didn't
work the first time we tried it.We're not going to do it a
second time. We're just going to, we're going
to 1 and done this. It really is one of those shows
that people talk about a lot of movies and shows that way about
perfect casting. But as we've been talking today
(31:59):
about our different actors influencing the characters.
I mean, it's easy to write a script one way and, you know,
choose the motives of these characters.
But then when you get someone who just genuinely,
authentically plays the character a certain way and more
human and more humanity and kindness to it and how that
reshapes Elle or Steve or and a lot of these characters.
(32:22):
So interesting to see. Yeah, and something I really
appreciate about this show is that the Duffer Brothers are
clearly capable of recognizing the talent they have, and when
somebody plays something a different way, it goes in
different direction. They let them lean into that and
it's very collaborative. Like I know that Eddie's
character, from what I've read, he was supposed to be a much
more antagonistic and him and Steve were have a lot more of a
(32:45):
rivalry. But then this is so sweet.
I read that during the shutdown Joe Carey, Joseph Quinn and
getting Matarazzo we're all quarantined Atlanta and since
desert couldn't go home couldn'tgo back to Europe.
They other things they could do during lockdown was like outdoor
activities. They went like rock climbing and
did like sporty stuff and they bonded and so when they came
(33:06):
back to filming, they were like,oh, we'd plan this whole like
antagonistic storyline, but it no longer jailed anymore because
they'd all become close They're.Like, oh, they're best friends
now. It doesn't.
It doesn't play well on screen. They have a body chemistry of
friends and not of rifles. Yeah.
And also like that plot was a bit weird to begin with.
Like, why would to adults be having a rivalry over the
(33:27):
friendship of a child when you really break that down, feel
like they didn't think that one through.
Like, that's a little odd. That's the kind of thing that
make sense if they were all the same age, or maybe within the
same age or two of Dustin. But canonically, Steve is
graduated and Eddie was supposedto graduate years ago.
When I heard that, I was like, yeah, glad they abandoned that
because that, that's a little odd.
(33:48):
Yeah, that's so interesting. There needs to be a whole
documentary. Not I wish they still did the E
true Hollywood stories. Those were so cool.
But they could do obviously a whole documentary about the
show, but they need a documentary about just like
revisions that they've done fromthe script to the screen because
it's so interesting. One of those characters I feel
that brings a lot of humanity isTerry Ives.
Even though she says is like 5 words only, you get so much from
(34:12):
those 5 or 6 words then in entire monologue you know?
Yeah, definitely. She conveys so much with so
little and I'm really glad they decided to like, change her
storyline. The.
Original sounded crazy. Yeah, and that whole article,
There's a whole list of them. You might have heard this one,
but Whale was originally supposed to kill Bob while
possessed early on in Season 2. No, I don't think I heard that
(34:35):
specific one. Oh my.
Gosh, so that was the plan. But they loved Sean Ashton so
much. He was so good and everyone
loved him so much. Pushed his death to the end of
the season and had him get killed by a Demogorgon instead.
Yeah, that I that I didn't know.I didn't know that he was
supposed to die earlier on, but but I I didn't know that Will
was supposed to be the one that killed him.
(34:56):
Yeah. And I'm, I'm glad they didn't go
with that because they get pretty close and that would have
been really traumatic. Yeah.
Because if you were in for poor Will and I like instead they
they wound up going with them. He secretly battled the clown It
and didn't know. That makes me interested in
intriguing for the final season because it's like, well, there
(35:16):
is no more seasons. Whatever we have, we're going to
do it. Because I feel like it had Will
killed Bob in Season 2, it wouldhave been hard to root for that
character in Season 3 or to trust him.
It will just kill Bob. But it makes me feel like with
Season 5, with no future seasons, they can be like, well,
we're going to have this character do this kind of crazy
(35:37):
thing because there will be no more follow up.
I could see them doing somethingwhere they have will be
possessed and done, just trying to force him to do something and
they have to drug him or hold him back.
They did in Season 2. I could definitely see that kind
of thing happening and I could see them trying some stuff they
had planned for previous season.They said they're going to go
(35:58):
back to a lot of what was left unfinished from season 2 and
bring it full circle back to season 1.
What was the phrase? It's like season 1.
Season 4 had a baby on steroids is what 5 is gonna feel like.
Yeah, we just want Will and Elleto like cure intentions.
Yeah. And I and I think they do, but
(36:18):
that was always messing with them.
So they could definitely do something with that for sure.
Yeah, that's true. Originally, they were supposed
to be a plot for four that Murray was supposed to team up
with Alexi's dad as part of the Russia plot.
They dropped it because so much time had passed.
They're like, this would take way too much reintroduction.
So instead of the end, they werejust like, OK, we're going to
(36:40):
have Tammy Thompson come and sing and sound like a muppet,
and that's going to be the connection and we're moving on.
Sometimes when I try to add too much or too many characters,
like Murray, as great as he is, he's already a secondary
character. So then trying to add like
another third character for Murray, it just seems so and not
not not necessary. Yeah, and I feel like they added
(37:01):
so many more new characters in Four.
It felt a bit blurred as it was,to be honest.
I like the additional characters.
The only one I wasn't crazy about was Argo.
I liked him, but I didn't feel like that was necessary for the
plot. Yeah, this one like Jonathan to
have a counterpart in Californiaand maybe some comedic really
from the intense so that Stranger Things is.
(37:24):
Yeah, for sure. But I'll bring it back to Terry.
Do you think that she'll stay forever in a catatonic state, or
do you think she'll regain function at some point?
That's one of those things, yeah.
It's, I don't know, she might bealways in that catatonic state
and it just might be one of those things where she's just
like collateral damage. And unfortunately, that's how
she is now and always. Yeah, I I wonder about that too.
(37:49):
The only thing I could see is because we know that L has the
ability to manipulate electricity, like saw her
restart Max's heart. We've seen other things since
she got their way. They electric shocked her too
high on purpose. Is that since that happens
electrical electrical currents in the brain?
I could potentially see something where L could figure
(38:10):
out a way to reverse the effectsby reversing the electrical
current somehow. Interesting or like having to
get the right just the right frequency something something in
order to so even more like honing of her powers.
That could be interesting. I could.
I could see that potentially, orshe could just be left in that
state forever. The reality is, is that part of
(38:31):
the story is based on a real thing that happened to real
people that were tortured, that remained sadly in those states
for the rest of their lives. So if they decided to stay true
to that, sadly, I think she willremain in that state.
And something I do think the show does a good job of is
showing that kind of thing, whether it's MK Ultra or Ray
Munson story. Yeah, I think I'd be too many
(38:55):
happy endings with Stranger Things.
I think there's going to be a lot of devastation.
But Terry might just be one of those things that's, like you
said, it's truthful, it's honestbecause that is what happens to
these people that don't ever come out of that state.
It could be interesting even to revisit her one last time and
like Elle trying to and still failing and just being and
(39:17):
accepting that, you know, like. Yeah, I could definitely see
them doing something like that where her and the rest of the
family go visit and she realizesI'm never going to be able to
get her out of the state and having to accept that reality.
Maybe the end of that storyline is simply OK her and the rest of
the buyers Hopper family come and visit them for Christmas and
the holidays and that just kind of is what it is.
(39:38):
I could see that as well becausethat's a real thing that people
have had to deal with. I mean, luckily today it's not
as common in occurrence for something that to happen to
people, but it is a reality and was common for many years.
I mean, not everybody was in MK Ultra, but things like that
happened. Definitely sure.
And it's also just shows you like in the times that the show
(40:00):
was, you know, set in. Yeah, for sure.
And I think it's a big part of it and that that was the reality
of the time. And some of the stuff just is
the reality. And I will say, I think about
like Will and Robin's storylinestoo.
I'm glad to see it looks like they're getting some scenes in
five and I'm super excited aboutthat.
And to see Robin have her romantic storyline.
(40:24):
You know, I want the characters to have their happy endings.
But the same. I think you need to be honest.
And this is a time period in which, like, you know, you you
couldn't be out and you know, you got to watch your friends
get married, but you couldn't. And you know, Will is an artist
who wants to go to like a big fancy art school Like, well,
that comes with dangers that hisfamily has to contend with.
(40:45):
You know, like that's, that's the reality.
I wasn't a bit surprised they haven't addressed the AIDS
crisis honestly on the show, because it's kind of one of the
big things about the 80s they really haven't addressed in any
meaningful way. So I would like to see that get
addressed at some point because to me, that's a part of Will's
reality. If he wants to go to art school,
they have to take precautions. And there's no, there's no
(41:08):
guarantees in this era. I feel like I had a like theory
early on, maybe season one, thatlike whole stranger Things, like
was an allegory for the AIDS crisis.
I think they did establish even in the first episode that Will
is meant to be gay. But then there's also moments
like when Elle comes out and she's just noticing Nancy.
(41:33):
I just felt like maybe there wassomething there with Barb.
Is Barb meant to be LGBTQIA plus?
So I think maybe they just not addressed it because I just
didn't know if that's where the focus was.
But I did think early on, maybe this is what the show is and
that's going to be like some bigtwist at the end.
But then having seen the previous, you know, for going on
(41:55):
now five seasons, it doesn't make sense that that would be
that because there's so much other stuff going on at play.
Yeah, I could see and there seems like think it was
allegory. I've seen some people wonder
about being cancer allegory or is it like Hopper sick or
somebody else sick and is this all kind of going on in their
head? And I, I could see up to a
certain point, I think up till end of two, definitely.
(42:19):
But when you get to three and four, it's like, well, this is
affecting other people and otherpeople's trauma, which wouldn't
be something you'd hallucinate in your own head.
Like that wouldn't really make any sense.
And it goes beyond just one character, one family.
I really hope they do address itin some way in Season 5.
But I've seen that theory that people wonder from Barb, you
(42:40):
know, was intended to be gay andin love with Nancy and was that
why she waited around at the pool party and stuff?
And I definitely think there could be some way to it because
one of my questions going to five is, was Barb simply
targeted because she was bleeding?
But if that's the case, Will wasn't bleeding and he got
targeted. So now, you know, vectors behind
(43:00):
it every kill intentional. If so, what's the connection
between Will and Barb? Because, you know, as they say
with serial killers, their firstfew kills established their
their MO, you know, you know, wewent from his family, which is
very personally motivated to thelab that was, you know, clear by
gaining powers and that kind of his whole plan.
But I think like he definitely chose will.
You know, he saw himself and will, he chose him for a reason.
(43:22):
But if he chose Barb, that's theonly thing I could think of.
Like being in love with your best friend and having to hide
that. Like that's the only thing I can
think of. Because what else do Will and
Barb have in common from what they establish in Season 1?
Yeah, so true. Then it also made me think if
Henry is meant to be gay as well, because like obviously
(43:45):
have so many comparisons in fourbetween Will and Henry.
So then I was like, is that why he targeted Will?
Yeah, I had that question too. And I, I thought coming out of
floor, I was like, I wonder, because my question is why did,
why did Henry kill Alice get hisparents?
But why Alice? Because she's so young.
(44:07):
And the only thing I could come up with was that she saw
something like he witnessed something and told their parents
and that's why they moved or he likes something like that.
That's what got him in trouble. I feel like she has to have
witnessed something because otherwise he could have just
knocked her out or she could have just like let her run away.
Like they all thought it was a demon anyway.
So like, it seems unnecessary. The fact that he, you know,
(44:31):
decided to put his father into atrance and then killed Alice and
tried to kill his dad. Like that's what took him out.
He overdid it. So had he not gone after Alice,
he probably would have been fine.
Like he might have gotten away with it.
So what I came out of four with was like, what did she witness?
And if he sees himself in will, that's will Barb have in common?
Is he gay? Did she see something?
(44:51):
And is that why they moved? Is that part of the origin story
here? Is was Henry convinced in Season
1 that, well, if I have the giftand maybe they have the gift,
and then he killed Barb and was like, OK, well, she didn't have
it. And he went after Will and he's
like, oh, good, we can use this.I'm not saying that like B&K
gives you superpowers, but did Henry think that for a time?
Was that his misunderstanding? Right, that would have been
(45:16):
that's Oh my goodness, it's so interesting.
I'm trying to think like now I'mlike replaying scenes in my head
and trying to think of new theories.
But yeah, it's definitely that thing like they said, linking
them Will and Henry about their sensitive kids or artsy.
So there there could be something there those.
Are definitely some of the questions I was I was left with.
(45:39):
I feel like we're going to get something in season 5 back story
wise. More again, if if Alice saw
something or why did they move or the early days, I feel like
there's a little more there thatwe need to see.
I feel like there's definitely more story that we we need to
get and get a definitive answer on.
Was it just that Henry saw himself and will?
(46:01):
Was that why he was targeted? Was it more than that?
Have all the kills, everything to do with the upside down, all
been Henry's, all connected. Because I feel like there is
enough wiggle room in Season 1 to tie that stuff in and without
redconing it too much or at all in some cases, just because some
stuff was left ambiguous. Yeah.
(46:22):
So to wrap up on Terry, do you think her powers could help out
on the gang in Season 5 in some way?
I don't know that. I think it would be interesting,
but I'm not sure if they'll pullthat out.
Yeah, I wonder too. Like I think it could be
interesting if they connected itthat way or showed the e-mail
and her mom can still connect and communicate in some fashion
(46:42):
or that what she can show or hermemories could help them in
some. Like I see maybe something
simple like you can connect through her mindscape and in the
void and and do it that way. I mean, now that kind of seems
like the town would be under quarantine.
It seems like it had to be like a remote viewing thing rather
than going to visit in person. But I think it's possible.
(47:05):
It's also possible that we don'tsee it and it's just like a wrap
up in the epilogue where they gopay a visit.
I'm thinking now, I'm thinking like maybe if if Elle is able to
unlock whatever in her or her powers to free Max, that may be
in the void, not all the way in,in person, but maybe in the
(47:26):
void, that she would be able to unlock Terry in a way that they
could communicate or have like one last moment.
Yeah. That that would, that would be
really cool. Very poignant, but that would be
very cool. Or like I seem to maybe doing
something where like they find away to communicate in the void
where she's kind of trapped in her body, but they find a way to
communicate that way. That would be kind of cool.
(47:47):
Although it would still be rather sad that would only be L
and she wouldn't be able to communicate that way with Becky.
Although I mean, if once everything's resolved, they
moved up the Hawkins or something, I could sound be the
go between. But yeah, I could definitely
just see them doing something. They're having some kind of like
plans kind of last moment together.
There's definitely a lot of loose ends that they need to tie
(48:09):
up before the show finishes. Oh yeah, definitely.
All right, And so to wrap up ourshow, do you want to tell people
where they can find you on social media and where they can
find you online? Yeah, on Instagram at a Man
1113, so you can check out if I'm performing at any shows or I
post on there if you want to follow my Grey's Anatomy journey
(48:30):
or my Stranger Things journey. Awesome.
All right. So we will have links in the
show notes as to where you can find Alex and the other stuff
that we've talked about, so you can go check all of that out.
Alex, thank you for coming on the show and talking theories
with me. Thank you for having me.
It's fun to have, you know, someone to springboard these
ideas off with and give me ideasfor new theories.
(48:52):
And I'm excited for the final season.
But yeah, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, me too. It's going to be a wild ride for
sure. And that's our show.
If you like what you heard today, be sure to subscribe and
tell your friends. Our theme music is provided by
Neon Nights. Thank you for listening to this
episode of Ham Radio, a StrangerThings podcast.
Please join us next time. Same dial, same time, over and
(49:12):
out.
It's a ham radio. The Cadillac of ham radio.
Hello everyone, welcome back to yet another episode of Ham Radio
(00:23):
as Stranger Things podcast. We've got a great episode for
you today as usual. But first, we have a little
housekeeping to take care of. And I'm going to turn it over to
Jasmine to let you know where you can find us on social media
and where you can listen to the podcast.
Thanks, Ashley. You can find us on Instagram at
HAM Radiomedia, all one word on Twitter at HAM through on
(00:46):
YouTube at HAM Radiomedia or using our handle, HAM Radio
1983. We also have a Discord you can
join which is linked to the description of this episode.
If you have a fan theory or question you want to share, you
can e-mail us at hamradiomedia@gmail.com.
Ashley also has a fanfic on AO3 entire Stranger Things College,
which is also LinkedIn the description.
(01:08):
The podcast is available on all major podcasting platforms
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consider leaving us a rating or review.
We have a lot of totally tuberous stuff coming up, so be
sure to follow us on social media to keep up with the
podcast and all of our new content.
All right, so moving on to Aunt Becky.
(01:30):
I've always wanted Aunt Becky tobe an interesting character, and
I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Do you think Becky's hiding something, or that she knows
more than she's saying, or she'sjust overwhelmed?
To me, no. I mean I'm interested to see
what your thoughts are, but to me that character was just so.
I thought the actresses portrayal, her performance was
very genuine in that that character was just very
(01:53):
ignorant, but just didn't reallyknow about all this.
So I don't think there's anything ulterior motive wise
there. I just think that she maybe
overwhelmed with taking care of Terry and she didn't really know
all of the information. And when Jane shows up at her
door, I just think that it's very genuine reaction.
So I don't think that she knows more than she's letting on.
(02:16):
I just think that's the way she is.
What do you think? Yeah, I go back and forth on
Becky because on 1st watch, my impression was just that she was
overwhelmed and that she believes the lies of government.
And I told her because she's no reason not to, and that she was
obviously shocked when when Elleshowed up.
And that was a genuine reaction.When she goes to call Hopper and
(02:38):
the police station at the end, Ithink she's just overwhelmed and
she realizes that. She said she would take an L,
but then she realizes that's a lot of work on top of Terry and
that she's just overwhelmed. But I go back and forth because
I've seen people point out that the timeline doesn't really
match up. That what Becky says in season 1
about how the drugs only got worse, the program supposed to
(03:01):
be winding down. And she seems to indicate there
that she thinks that the drug iskind of fried Terry's brain and
that's why she's in this state and that she miscarried and the
baby's not out there. The baby is dead like she
miscarried. But I've seen people point out
that for when Elle was born and when what happened to Terry and,
you know, the lawsuits and everything, like she obviously
(03:22):
has records of that. The basically the timeline's a
bit off there. You think that's what happened?
There's a several year gap in between there because how could
Terry be suing the government and going after them if she was
already in a catatonic state because of the drugs?
The timeline's a bit off there. Oh.
Interesting. But at the same time, I mean, a
(03:42):
lot of that is from Season 1, and I don't know if you've heard
this, Stranger Things was originally meant to be an
anthology. It was not meant to be a series
the way it is now. Interesting.
So the story in Season 1 was supposed to wrap up there, and
that was supposed to be it. And they were going to move on
to other things in the Montauk script from there.
(04:03):
I, I, I take everything in season 1 of the grain of salt
because it was not intended to be a series at that point when
Season 2, it was because it became this overnight smash hit.
And Netflix came back to them and like, hey, can you do a
whole series out of this? And they were like, oh, yeah,
sure. And they'd like call the actions
go, can you guys come back? Yeah, I think there's a few
things like that between the those seasons that just writing
(04:27):
wise that had to be either rewritten or retconned.
And then also like we're even talking this whole episode about
the Lost Sister episode. I just think that some of those
characters in between seasons kind of get muddled, and the
history and the story and the timelines, yeah.
So, yeah, I don't know how much of that is Season 1 was meant to
be standalone or if there's something else going on there.
(04:50):
She says it's just the two of them.
But the same time she seems to be on a fair bit of property
there. So I've seen people speculate,
you know, she paid off by the lab people.
Or did she get some kind of stipend that she thinks is
compensation, but sit down like,well, she's being paid off by
the lab people. I feel like she'd be living in a
nicer place because like, when Gwen sets up the buyer's family
in California, like Wilson, you know, he's been good to them and
(05:13):
they've got a nice home and everything.
So I feel like if the lab peoplewant to keep her quiet, they'd
be living in nicer digs. And she kind of makes it seem
like they're not super wealthy. They're just on their own.
She's Terry's full time caregiver.
But I feel like if that was the case would be a more positive
situation. And I also feel like the
(05:34):
government wouldn't constantly be trying to figure out where L
was if they knew Terry and Beckywas still alive because that
kind of seems like what would you not contact them?
But that does not appear to havehappened.
The only person we've seen Beckyhave contact with is L and Joyce
and Hopper. And I kind of wondered if after
Hopper adopted L that he would send Becky some kind of like
(05:56):
stipend or something to look after herself and Terry, because
we know that he's got money, appears that way.
So I was kind of wonder what thesituation is there.
Yeah, hopefully he would in someway.
But yeah, I could totally also see like Brenner after frying
Terry's brain being like, well, that took care of that
situation, Don't have to worry about that anymore.
(06:16):
And just like letting her be andnot ever giving her any more
thought. And I wonder too, if Owens even
knows that Terry is still alive because Brennis is a type of guy
to me who, you know, if he he, he would probably put like
terminated on her file after they did that.
So I, I would guess that Owens probably thinks that Terry is
(06:37):
deceased and that Al has no other family.
Because I feel like if he knew that Terry was still alive and
what had happened to her, I don't think he would have agreed
to the Neenah project because hebasically goes against his
better judgement because Berner convinces him this is the only
way. And that is the example that
(06:59):
Elle brings up to to Brenner after what he did to her, her
mother. And he's like, well, she brought
a, you know, a gun into a hospital.
She was sick as it was her fault.
And she realizes he's the monster.
And I just feel like if Owens had known that, I just, I think
he's too smart for that. I I don't think he he would have
agreed to the Nina project. Yeah, that's a good point
(07:20):
because yeah, I don't think he would either if he had known.
And I think it's a lot that Owens doesn't know that he
thinks he does. Because we did an episode with
our friends at Star Court study hall.
We talked extensively about the Nina project and what they they
shared with us is that on rewatch, something they realized
(07:41):
is Brenna convinces Owens to do this and he says it's the only
way. But after the whole new project
is revealed and what's happened to Ellis Powers is revealed,
it's pretty obvious that Joyce and the boys could have done
this with Elle in a kiddie pool in the backyard and that would
have worked just fine. Probably would have worked
better if she wasn't freaking traumatized the whole time if
she was with people that like she trusted that there's both
(08:04):
mental and physical component to.
It. Yeah, totally.
And that like a moment. I love that moment where Owens
looks at Brenner and he realizes, oh Frick, I've screwed
up. Like, I thought this was the
way, but is he just doing this to mess with her?
Is this even necessity? Is this even going to work?
And then you find out that it's just basically it's Eldest
(08:25):
unlocking her memories. But because she was already
getting bullied, that stuff was already coming up for her.
Like they just had to play the tapes.
They didn't need to shave her head, drug her, traumatize her
again. They just needed some salt in
the kiddie pool in the backyard and the VHS player.
Like that was all they needed. And I don't think it's a
coincidence that they wait to dothis until both Joyce and Hopper
(08:47):
are out of the country, because no way in hell would they let
that happen. So.
Yeah, that's true. But at the end of the day, it
did work. I mean, yeah, maybe they could
have gone out to the backyard ina kiddie pool and some salt, but
as as much of A monster as he has, she did regain her power.
(09:08):
So there is that. Yeah, she she did get him back.
So yeah, there's lingering questions for me about Becky,
and I don't know if we'll get them answered in Season 5.
I feel like, I feel like they are doing some kind of epilogue
episode, which I hope they are. I feel like there's a lot of
ground to cover there because the rest of the season seems
(09:30):
very like military and like quarantine focus.
So like, I'm curious where your thoughts are on this.
Like do you think that Becky hassome kind of agreement with
Joyce and Hopper about Elle's care?
Like do they have a formal agreement?
Do you think it's informal? Like what do you think the the
situation is there? So I'm not sure if there's any
kind of like agreement between them other than an unspoken
like, yes, I'm going to take care of her, I'm going to do my
(09:51):
best for her, but I'm not sure if there's like a formal
arrangement. Yeah, because I wonder about
that because people have speculated we see Joyce taken
Elle after season 3. We know from Dimitri that there
was a trust set up for a like all of his money went into a
trust for her, which made me wonder if they had some kind of
(10:11):
formal arrangement. Like he did drop paperwork to be
like, yes, and you get custody. Although because Elle is
technically considered legally dead, I don't even know if you
could do that. And that made me wonder like, do
they have a formal agreement? Does he have some kind of formal
agreement with with Becky or is it more of an informal thing
where it's like I can't take care of both of them and she
(10:34):
seems to want to live with you so you know, you take care of
her. And in exchange, he makes sure
that like her and terrier lookedafter because of course there
was race for me is after the buyers are now moved to
California. Is do Becky and Terry know that
she's moved? Yeah.
(10:55):
How much do they know about about recent stuff like that?
She's now in California, that she's living with a whole other
family, that this guy that came here that is supposed to be
taking care of her is now supposedly dead in a mall
explosion. Yeah.
I don't know how much they wouldknow because.
We know that Hopper's death madethe news, so I feel like she
(11:16):
would have at least seen that. So I feel like George had to
have said something. But if she did and they do have
an arrangement in place that makes Becky and Terry vulnerable
if the military ever comes knocking.
So I wonder how much they've told them or if they've been
like, hey, if people come knocking, stick with the she's
dead story for her own protection and her safety.
Because typically speaking, if you're if you're taking minors
(11:41):
across state lines, you have to inform their non custodial
parents and family. You can't just like do that.
That's kidnapping. And I'm like, OK, did they
inform Becky? And what about LON?
And yes he's an abusive psychopath but he also legally
still has parental rights. Will and Jonathan are under 18
at that point. So did they inform him?
Did he terminate parental rights?
Did Owens take care of that for them?
(12:02):
Because like they had the buyersmove to California as if it's no
big deal. But I'm like you cannot take 3
minors to a different state to live without informing their non
custodial parents in biological veil.
You can't just pick them up and move them unless they've
formally terminated their parental rights.
That's kidnapping. You can't just do.
(12:23):
That Oh my goodness, that's so true.
That's like they're moving. Happy ending for them.
It's OK. That's so funny though.
When you said about Hopper's death making the news, the only
thing I can hear in my head was Angela's voice saying what?
Your local paper when I was trying to give her presentation
(12:47):
about her hero, her father who died and Angela is just such a
little bully about it. Yeah, and I I feel like I hate
Angela more than becna honestly,at least becna I can understand,
but Angela was just mean, just rude and also kind of an idiot
because all your local papers. No, from what we see that made
(13:09):
national. Headline.
It was a big thing, yeah. Angel's kind of stupid that she
apparently hadn't heard of this.I know they're in California,
but I feel like, I don't know, 30 people in the chief of place
died in a mall fire in a town that already had a bunch of like
suspicious deaths. Like we see that news story.
I think the three about that. So I'm like, you somehow didn't
(13:31):
know that everything go out of like Hellville, USA.
Missing children and now a mall fire and the death of the yet
chief of police. But I'm sure Angela doesn't see
past her own pretty nose. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
(13:52):
I did wonder coming out of Season 4, do you think we'll see
Becky again? Do you think we'll see Ellen
family visit Becky and Terry again?
I'm not sure. I don't know about Becky
specifically unless it's both ofthem.
I feel like maybe Terry out of the two of them, we could
potentially see again in some way as far as if it's just like
(14:13):
a visit back to her to kind of tie things up at the end.
So I don't know, we could theorize like all day.
I feel like there's always theories every season before the
season comes out of what's goingto happen.
And then somehow, unlike most shows, because a lot of shows
you're kind of able to kind of figure out.
I feel like more than most shows, Stranger Things always
diverts expectations and gives us something that we were not
(14:36):
expecting. Yeah, they are good at that.
You think you kind of got it figured out, and they're
definitely clues along the way, but there's always something
you're like, wow, I didn't see that coming.
Like, Season 4 has their first big twist, which is that you
knew something that's kind of off about that orderly, but you
didn't quite realize how off that guy is.
It's like a slow reveal. And Jamie's so good at it.
(14:57):
He's so good when you're like, there's something slightly off
about this guy, but you can't put your finger on it.
And even though I sense that about part way through, I was
not expecting him to have been behind the massacre.
And it was revealed he was Vector.
I was like, Oh my God. Yeah, definitely.
And then upon rewatch, it gets like, oh, I should have been
able to pick up on that, but somehow, and I didn't.
(15:20):
And then the only thing, having seen that actor in a couple of
projects before Stranger Things,that was my only thought when I
was watching Stranger Things as well.
We've had this actor in such a not a minor role, but he's only
the orderly. It's so interesting.
And then to get the twist, it's like, OK, now I see why they
have this actor. But yeah, to have that twist of
1 is Henry. Henry is 11 is Deckna.
(15:41):
Henry is Deckna. It's like what?
Yeah, and I think it's because Jamie's acting is so suddenly so
good at that. And something we've noticed with
our script series is that in thescript, it's a lot more obvious.
Twist is still there, but characters like Fun and Brenner,
it's a lot more obvious what their intentions are.
(16:03):
But the way the actors finally portrayed them was so much more
nuanced. They kind of keep you guessing
and I credit to them, like, you know, something's off, but it's
still A twist where you're like,oh, wow.
And I feel like people, I don't know anybody who got all, all
the parts right. Some people were like, oh, this
guy's off. Other people were like, oh, I
think he's buying the massacre. He could be back.
I didn't see anybody who got allthree parts from the job, which
(16:27):
again, when you rewatch it, you're like, oh, of course, but
it's not obviously the first time around and it's not
supposed to be right. It's supposed to be A twist.
Yeah, it's supposed to be like figuring it out.
That's right. Yeah, it's like crazy.
And the other thing I think about Season 4 is there's other
stuff that was like that they didn't wind up revealing or they
(16:47):
had to push to five because theyran out of time.
So I feel like that was kind of not an intentional misdirect.
But for example, actress who plays Vicki was Anne Green Gable
was an M with an E prior to being cast, so she was the lead
of her own show for many seasons.
And so I was like, why did she look familiar?
(17:08):
My friend was like, oh, she's fun.
I was like, oh, right. But if we were surprised because
that was kind of a minor role for her and she's kind of a big
deal, why would they cast her? And it turned out that I think
intended to have her be a biggerrole, and they just ran out of
time. So they pushed it to five.
And like, I was just Karen. They focus on her a lot.
And you think she's going to have this like a role in Volume
(17:28):
2 and then not so much. But clearly she's got a big role
in Five, So I think that was part of it where there was
things that they didn't get to play out because they just they
just ran out of time. I don't think they budgeted
their time very well in for SO. Everything just kind of had to
be pushed. I kind of been waiting the the
whole series for Karen for something to happen with her
(17:52):
because the first season on thatshe was actually a series
regular in the opening credits. And I always thought she wasn't
a big enough character to be a regular on the show.
But I think that's just because she's not involved in like the
main mystery of the show. You know, she's just like the
mom the whole time. So I'm waiting.
Obviously we see that she's going to have a big part in
(18:13):
Season 5 and with Holly. But yeah, I'm interested to see
what what happens with her. Yeah, same.
I always thought she was going to get a larger role as well.
And I kind of wonder if they hadher build a series regular and
there was just stuff that they shot and had to cut for time or
for flow. Because again, she doesn't
really play a series regular part up until now, but she's
(18:34):
capable of it and we see her geta really big role in Five.
And the other thing is, I clocked that Holly knew more
than most people thought she wasgoing to have a bigger role in
Five really early. That surprised a lot of people,
but I I clocked that earlier when after four came out and I
was like, I think there's more the holly that meets the eye.
(18:54):
She's smart, she's observant, she's always in the background
like. In the first season, when Karen
brings Holly over to the buyer'shouse and then the lights are
going off and she's following the lights and these characters
are always there, Karen and Holly.
Ted is what he is, but it's so it sounds like obviously there's
something building up. I mean, hopefully.
(19:17):
Yeah, Season 3, she notices the trees are moving with the mind
flare and points them out. Yeah, and all the fireworks and
she's like, no, the trees. And then in four, she's like,
look, it's snowing. Reminds me of The Polar Express
like where the kids can believe the magic but the adults can't,
right? They can hear the bell.
(19:39):
So something like the kids are fully aware of stuff that's
going on in the adults. Like, no, look at the fireworks.
That's fine, don't worry about the trees.
Yeah, and I feel like her siblings and parents are going
to be shocked when something happens, but he's always in the
background before we see give her the Skittles to use her
light bright. But she's again, she's there and
she's still hanging out in the living room.
(20:00):
As far as, you know, for that whole conversation.
The fact that like parent of thecop walk in and they're just
having that conversation. They walk back out.
Holly's in the living room and. I mean, the thing that gets me
is once it was revealed that, you know, he's playing a bigger
role, I'm like, well, yeah. Mike hit Elle in the basement
for a week. Nancy's always having Steve and
Jonathan over. Mike's having all his friends
(20:22):
over all the time, and Holly canhear them.
It's a decent sized house but like she's still there like.
It's like that thing they say that kids see everything when
you have a gun in the house and the kids see, they know.
So I'm sure she's fully aware. We see her even in the first
season when Elle is walking out of the house, right?
And she's looking and Dustin hasto bang the door thing so they
(20:44):
don't look at her. So I'm sure, yeah, Holly, like
the season hears a lot of thingsabout this.
And she's like, oh, the Upside Down.
I know all about that. Yeah, And I feel like because
the rest of her family is truly oblivious, I feel like they're
going to be shocked and everyoneelse is going to be like Will
especially, like, he practicallygrew up there.
He's going to be like, how did you not notice this?
She's always been there. She's observant.
(21:06):
And I mean, that place is practically a hotel.
There's so many people coming inand out of there and spending
the night that Holly's just like, whatever, That's life.
But she's right down the hall. She hears all this stuff.
She's silly. She knows that like there are
people staying over and being hidden and hanging around and
talking about stuff. Like she knows.
She definitely knows. That's so funny.
(21:28):
I was so bummed though when I found when I saw that they
recast Holly because she's goingto have a bigger role.
They want the actress to be capable of performing that I
guess. But I just felt like it's been
the same little girl since sincethe first episode, 4 seasons in.
Now all of a sudden, the last season, we're getting a whole
New Girl. Yeah, I hear you there.
Although I did see there was a behind the scenes shot that Nell
(21:51):
Fisher shared with the twins that played Holly before her and
it appears that they're doing some kind of stunt work.
So it looks like they may be herstunt double.
S in five. I did see something online of
her saying something and then the twins commenting on just
saying take care of our girl andthank you and so obviously they
understand and they are handing the reins over to her.
(22:13):
But at the same time, I don't know, I'm just like, it's we'll
see what happens in Season 5. Maybe it is a necessary recast,
but I thought that maybe with a little direction that these
girls could have portrayed whatever it is they have in the
script, but maybe not. We'll have to see what happens.
Yeah, and I also wonder too, rememberly Deaf Brothers said.
And the way Season 4 ended, I think the original plan was for
(22:35):
them to pick up where they left off and then jump ahead to fall
of 86. I think it was all supposed to
wrap up in 86 and then the otherkids are going to go off to
college, university. That definitely seemed the way
Season 4 was going and everything, he said in
interviews. I think the jump ahead to 87 is
simply because three years passed and the actress had just
(22:57):
aged to a point where it's like no one is buying that they're 14
like. With Holly too, like even in
that final scene of like it's snowing, like she's supposed to
be so much younger than she isn't.
Like, we get it with the way that her costume and her
hairstyle and her minimal lines,she plays as a young child.
But like what Priya Ferguson is like is 1718 now and she's
(23:20):
supposed to be playing so much younger as Erica.
I mean, obviously all the kids across the border playing so
much younger, but especially when you have a character of
Holly that's supposed to be a child and having the actresses
be so much older than the character.
Yeah, So I do wonder if they'd be cast because they realize
they were going to have Flash Forward.
I feel like if they'd stuck with86, they probably could have
made it work. But I feel like maybe we'd flash
(23:43):
forward. They're like, yeah, no ones
gonna like she just needs to look older, jump in the strike I
think did unfortunately like affect a lot of things because
and it seemed like coming out offour, four and five, we're gonna
dovetail. And it definitely feels like
they've had to make changes justbecause so much time had passed.
And well, I'm not crazy about that.
I think it's better than trying to pretend.
(24:04):
I don't know if you watch ModernFamily, but I love that show for
like the first six seasons. But there got to be a point
where the kids started to get older and they were still trying
to do the little kid jokes and it it just didn't work.
And I remember seeing clips online later that like they did
some weird plot with Haley lateron where basically she got back
(24:27):
together, little boyfriend basically to keep her in town
rather than going away to university.
And they started to do stuff like that, which didn't really
make any sense. So rather than having those
characters go off or not be in every episode or aging it up,
they were trying to hang on to that.
And I think you can see that a little bit in three hours
reading an interview the Duffer Brothers did after four came
(24:49):
out. And they said that it was a big
shock to them when all the kids showed up on set for three
because they were writing them like they were much younger.
And but that age, of course, a year or even a few months can
make such a difference with yourgrowth spurts and everything.
And having read that, I was like, oh, that makes sense
because some stuff in three thatdoes feel kind of juvenile and
does feel like a bit of a regression.
(25:10):
And it's like, yeah, if they were writing it like these were
little kids and the kids showed up and they're not so little
anymore, That makes sense. So they made a point to take
that into account for four, which tried to be a really good
idea because by the time they shot 4, the kids were so much
older by like, a good two years that, like, it really wouldn't
have worked. It would have to rewrite a lot
more. Yeah, I think you see that even
(25:32):
in like the costumes, like I waslike at like Dustin and season 3
and his like tiny little clothesbecause they're trying to make
him seem like he's like still this young kid or maybe he had
just had like a growth spurt. So his clothes are too small for
him. But I feel like we see that in
there too. Yeah, or like son and who the
head of costume for season 4. And they said that they had to
likely style Noah Schnop to cover his arms because he had
(25:56):
more muscle on him than you're supposed to have at 14 because
he wasn't supposed to be that old when they shot that.
And so they had to do a lot of stuff with costuming to make
them look younger. And I kind of feel like when
they went to Film 5, they're like, OK, we've done all we can
at this point, but it's time to call it like, no one's going to
buy this. We just kind of age this up a
(26:17):
bit. Yeah, I prefer that I bought
every season. I buy the ages that they are.
I'm never like, oh, they're so much older.
Visually it looks good. Like you're saying those couple
of months when you're those ageshave a growth spurt and you look
completely different. So I buy it.
Especially season 4, seeing themnow we've gone from middle
school to high school. Yeah, you can visually see that
(26:39):
they're older, but like you see a kid and then see him a few
months later and and then like, wow, it's the same thing.
Yeah, so as much as I'm not crazy about the batting and
additional time jumps, I would rather they do something to
address it rather than trying topretend like they all look 14
and no time has passed. So we'll see.
I don't know if you've heard this, but have you ever heard of
(27:01):
the original like Mercy Kill storyline that had planned for
Terry? No.
OK so I came across an article where the strange things writers
account had shared plots that they abandoned and one of them
was that in the original script for season 2 that Elle was
supposed to like mercy kill Terry and that in the end they
wound up like scrapping that andleaving her in a catatonic
(27:24):
state. Oh my goodness.
So what was the like original plan?
So I think what they were going to have Elle do is show up,
realize she's in that state, getthe information she needed and
then basically lose her powers to kill Terry and folk take her
out of her misery I think was the original idea.
Oh my goodness. Yeah, and I'm glad they
abandoned that one because it doesn't send the best message.
(27:45):
Yes, Terry doesn't have a great mode of life, but.
Yeah, and that's not, that's notreally the old thing.
We've seen that she wouldn't harm the cat and obviously she
has killed and she will kill if needed and to protect your
friends or herself. But yeah, that does that seems
kind of against Elle. Character and I think goes back
to like from what I've read about season 1, originally she
(28:06):
was about she was supposed to bea lot more like vicious.
He was supposed to be like just kind of killing
indiscriminately. And then with Millie Bobby Ron's
performance, I decided to make her softer and want to like,
kill in self-defense or like anger, which obviously was a
good idea because it makes her alot more relatable and endearing
as a character. I see that.
I can see that. It's kind of like that Toy
(28:27):
Story, like that Woody was supposed to be much more
resentful about Buzz and kind ofdoing these things that were
evil in a way, but then they kind of changed that.
And so I could see that with Elle having this kid who's been
raised by the government and to be this kind of like killing
machine. I could totally have seen that
(28:47):
that's where the character was going to start out as, but I'm
kind of glad with that. That's not what we got.
Especially Millie Bobby Brown coming in and changing that and
giving her this human side and the performance and and her
shaping the character and reshaping who Elle is.
Yeah, I agree. And I think the first season
would have probably been successful, but I don't know if
(29:08):
it would have become the blockbuster it is because
there's lots of dark comedies orshows out there around stuff
like that. And I think what we all love
about Ella is that she's human. She doesn't want to be in this
situation. And it's her humanity that makes
her relatable. And I, I think the final version
is much closer to, you know, what a soldier would be.
(29:30):
No, this is someone who's trained to kill.
But, you know, doesn't mean I necessarily want to.
And I, I think that that, you know, that's how her and Hopper
relate a lot more because same thing they like, this is a guy
who has sniper training, who's killed people, who the police
officer or soldier for most of his adult life.
And you get the impression I've always gotten from Hopper's a
(29:51):
character that like, he's good at a lot of things.
He's good with a gun, He's good with a knife, doesn't
particularly enjoy it. And that's L that's L2.
Yeah, it's your duty. But it's she'd much rather eat
Eggos and play board games. And he'd much rather play board
games, watch TV. That's what they'd rather be
doing, not out there killing people.
Yeah, same. That's all I want to do is eat
(30:12):
egos and watch TVI mean, but I see what you're saying about it
wouldn't have been as successfulof a show again going back.
What you were saying about it being anthology makes sense had
it been at one and done season storyline and for that Elle
character to be that malicious and vicious.
But then it also goes back to what we were saying about the
Lost sister episode about those characters together.
(30:33):
Just they weren't likable enoughto to maintain more storyline
and more episodes or an entire new series.
So just goes to show things thatchange creatively.
Yeah, I always think it's interesting where they come back
to a character idea. They've done that a few times,
and in each case it's like you were right to abandon that.
The first time they tried to replicate that with The Lost
(30:54):
Sister and with Kali, that did not go over as intended.
A lot of what was originally supposed to be part of Steve's
character went to Billy and Jason.
And I love, I love Steve. I'm a huge Steve fan.
And I love what Joe Carey did with that performance and the
character. And, you know, Steve now is
obviously so much more of a nuanced, stronger, better
(31:15):
character than originally scripted.
But they were able to reuse thatlater on.
And they've they've done that a few times.
Each time like that. I've seen that they've done it.
It's like, yeah, you made the right call.
This actor is meant to play the part this way and you want to
reincorporate that. You bring in another actor who
can play it that way. They're there for a limited
time, they do that role and thenthat's it.
And I think the Lost Sister kindof taught them that because the
(31:39):
other characters where they've done that with don't stick
around for too long. They're great, they're really
good at it, but they don't stickaround because they're not meant
to. They realized, OK, this didn't
work the first time we tried it.We're not going to do it a
second time. We're just going to, we're going
to 1 and done this. It really is one of those shows
that people talk about a lot of movies and shows that way about
perfect casting. But as we've been talking today
(31:59):
about our different actors influencing the characters.
I mean, it's easy to write a script one way and, you know,
choose the motives of these characters.
But then when you get someone who just genuinely,
authentically plays the character a certain way and more
human and more humanity and kindness to it and how that
reshapes Elle or Steve or and a lot of these characters.
(32:22):
So interesting to see. Yeah, and something I really
appreciate about this show is that the Duffer Brothers are
clearly capable of recognizing the talent they have, and when
somebody plays something a different way, it goes in
different direction. They let them lean into that and
it's very collaborative. Like I know that Eddie's
character, from what I've read, he was supposed to be a much
more antagonistic and him and Steve were have a lot more of a
(32:45):
rivalry. But then this is so sweet.
I read that during the shutdown Joe Carey, Joseph Quinn and
getting Matarazzo we're all quarantined Atlanta and since
desert couldn't go home couldn'tgo back to Europe.
They other things they could do during lockdown was like outdoor
activities. They went like rock climbing and
did like sporty stuff and they bonded and so when they came
(33:06):
back to filming, they were like,oh, we'd plan this whole like
antagonistic storyline, but it no longer jailed anymore because
they'd all become close They're.Like, oh, they're best friends
now. It doesn't.
It doesn't play well on screen. They have a body chemistry of
friends and not of rifles. Yeah.
And also like that plot was a bit weird to begin with.
Like, why would to adults be having a rivalry over the
(33:27):
friendship of a child when you really break that down, feel
like they didn't think that one through.
Like, that's a little odd. That's the kind of thing that
make sense if they were all the same age, or maybe within the
same age or two of Dustin. But canonically, Steve is
graduated and Eddie was supposedto graduate years ago.
When I heard that, I was like, yeah, glad they abandoned that
because that, that's a little odd.
(33:48):
Yeah, that's so interesting. There needs to be a whole
documentary. Not I wish they still did the E
true Hollywood stories. Those were so cool.
But they could do obviously a whole documentary about the
show, but they need a documentary about just like
revisions that they've done fromthe script to the screen because
it's so interesting. One of those characters I feel
that brings a lot of humanity isTerry Ives.
Even though she says is like 5 words only, you get so much from
(34:12):
those 5 or 6 words then in entire monologue you know?
Yeah, definitely. She conveys so much with so
little and I'm really glad they decided to like, change her
storyline. The.
Original sounded crazy. Yeah, and that whole article,
There's a whole list of them. You might have heard this one,
but Whale was originally supposed to kill Bob while
possessed early on in Season 2. No, I don't think I heard that
(34:35):
specific one. Oh my.
Gosh, so that was the plan. But they loved Sean Ashton so
much. He was so good and everyone
loved him so much. Pushed his death to the end of
the season and had him get killed by a Demogorgon instead.
Yeah, that I that I didn't know.I didn't know that he was
supposed to die earlier on, but but I I didn't know that Will
was supposed to be the one that killed him.
(34:56):
Yeah. And I'm, I'm glad they didn't go
with that because they get pretty close and that would have
been really traumatic. Yeah.
Because if you were in for poor Will and I like instead they
they wound up going with them. He secretly battled the clown It
and didn't know. That makes me interested in
intriguing for the final season because it's like, well, there
(35:16):
is no more seasons. Whatever we have, we're going to
do it. Because I feel like it had Will
killed Bob in Season 2, it wouldhave been hard to root for that
character in Season 3 or to trust him.
It will just kill Bob. But it makes me feel like with
Season 5, with no future seasons, they can be like, well,
we're going to have this character do this kind of crazy
(35:37):
thing because there will be no more follow up.
I could see them doing somethingwhere they have will be
possessed and done, just trying to force him to do something and
they have to drug him or hold him back.
They did in Season 2. I could definitely see that kind
of thing happening and I could see them trying some stuff they
had planned for previous season.They said they're going to go
(35:58):
back to a lot of what was left unfinished from season 2 and
bring it full circle back to season 1.
What was the phrase? It's like season 1.
Season 4 had a baby on steroids is what 5 is gonna feel like.
Yeah, we just want Will and Elleto like cure intentions.
Yeah. And I and I think they do, but
(36:18):
that was always messing with them.
So they could definitely do something with that for sure.
Yeah, that's true. Originally, they were supposed
to be a plot for four that Murray was supposed to team up
with Alexi's dad as part of the Russia plot.
They dropped it because so much time had passed.
They're like, this would take way too much reintroduction.
So instead of the end, they werejust like, OK, we're going to
(36:40):
have Tammy Thompson come and sing and sound like a muppet,
and that's going to be the connection and we're moving on.
Sometimes when I try to add too much or too many characters,
like Murray, as great as he is, he's already a secondary
character. So then trying to add like
another third character for Murray, it just seems so and not
not not necessary. Yeah, and I feel like they added
(37:01):
so many more new characters in Four.
It felt a bit blurred as it was,to be honest.
I like the additional characters.
The only one I wasn't crazy about was Argo.
I liked him, but I didn't feel like that was necessary for the
plot. Yeah, this one like Jonathan to
have a counterpart in Californiaand maybe some comedic really
from the intense so that Stranger Things is.
(37:24):
Yeah, for sure. But I'll bring it back to Terry.
Do you think that she'll stay forever in a catatonic state, or
do you think she'll regain function at some point?
That's one of those things, yeah.
It's, I don't know, she might bealways in that catatonic state
and it just might be one of those things where she's just
like collateral damage. And unfortunately, that's how
she is now and always. Yeah, I I wonder about that too.
(37:49):
The only thing I could see is because we know that L has the
ability to manipulate electricity, like saw her
restart Max's heart. We've seen other things since
she got their way. They electric shocked her too
high on purpose. Is that since that happens
electrical electrical currents in the brain?
I could potentially see something where L could figure
(38:10):
out a way to reverse the effectsby reversing the electrical
current somehow. Interesting or like having to
get the right just the right frequency something something in
order to so even more like honing of her powers.
That could be interesting. I could.
I could see that potentially, orshe could just be left in that
state forever. The reality is, is that part of
(38:31):
the story is based on a real thing that happened to real
people that were tortured, that remained sadly in those states
for the rest of their lives. So if they decided to stay true
to that, sadly, I think she willremain in that state.
And something I do think the show does a good job of is
showing that kind of thing, whether it's MK Ultra or Ray
Munson story. Yeah, I think I'd be too many
(38:55):
happy endings with Stranger Things.
I think there's going to be a lot of devastation.
But Terry might just be one of those things that's, like you
said, it's truthful, it's honestbecause that is what happens to
these people that don't ever come out of that state.
It could be interesting even to revisit her one last time and
like Elle trying to and still failing and just being and
(39:17):
accepting that, you know, like. Yeah, I could definitely see
them doing something like that where her and the rest of the
family go visit and she realizesI'm never going to be able to
get her out of the state and having to accept that reality.
Maybe the end of that storyline is simply OK her and the rest of
the buyers Hopper family come and visit them for Christmas and
the holidays and that just kind of is what it is.
(39:38):
I could see that as well becausethat's a real thing that people
have had to deal with. I mean, luckily today it's not
as common in occurrence for something that to happen to
people, but it is a reality and was common for many years.
I mean, not everybody was in MK Ultra, but things like that
happened. Definitely sure.
And it's also just shows you like in the times that the show
(40:00):
was, you know, set in. Yeah, for sure.
And I think it's a big part of it and that that was the reality
of the time. And some of the stuff just is
the reality. And I will say, I think about
like Will and Robin's storylinestoo.
I'm glad to see it looks like they're getting some scenes in
five and I'm super excited aboutthat.
And to see Robin have her romantic storyline.
(40:24):
You know, I want the characters to have their happy endings.
But the same. I think you need to be honest.
And this is a time period in which, like, you know, you you
couldn't be out and you know, you got to watch your friends
get married, but you couldn't. And you know, Will is an artist
who wants to go to like a big fancy art school Like, well,
that comes with dangers that hisfamily has to contend with.
(40:45):
You know, like that's, that's the reality.
I wasn't a bit surprised they haven't addressed the AIDS
crisis honestly on the show, because it's kind of one of the
big things about the 80s they really haven't addressed in any
meaningful way. So I would like to see that get
addressed at some point because to me, that's a part of Will's
reality. If he wants to go to art school,
they have to take precautions. And there's no, there's no
(41:08):
guarantees in this era. I feel like I had a like theory
early on, maybe season one, thatlike whole stranger Things, like
was an allegory for the AIDS crisis.
I think they did establish even in the first episode that Will
is meant to be gay. But then there's also moments
like when Elle comes out and she's just noticing Nancy.
(41:33):
I just felt like maybe there wassomething there with Barb.
Is Barb meant to be LGBTQIA plus?
So I think maybe they just not addressed it because I just
didn't know if that's where the focus was.
But I did think early on, maybe this is what the show is and
that's going to be like some bigtwist at the end.
But then having seen the previous, you know, for going on
(41:55):
now five seasons, it doesn't make sense that that would be
that because there's so much other stuff going on at play.
Yeah, I could see and there seems like think it was
allegory. I've seen some people wonder
about being cancer allegory or is it like Hopper sick or
somebody else sick and is this all kind of going on in their
head? And I, I could see up to a
certain point, I think up till end of two, definitely.
(42:19):
But when you get to three and four, it's like, well, this is
affecting other people and otherpeople's trauma, which wouldn't
be something you'd hallucinate in your own head.
Like that wouldn't really make any sense.
And it goes beyond just one character, one family.
I really hope they do address itin some way in Season 5.
But I've seen that theory that people wonder from Barb, you
(42:40):
know, was intended to be gay andin love with Nancy and was that
why she waited around at the pool party and stuff?
And I definitely think there could be some way to it because
one of my questions going to five is, was Barb simply
targeted because she was bleeding?
But if that's the case, Will wasn't bleeding and he got
targeted. So now, you know, vectors behind
(43:00):
it every kill intentional. If so, what's the connection
between Will and Barb? Because, you know, as they say
with serial killers, their firstfew kills established their
their MO, you know, you know, wewent from his family, which is
very personally motivated to thelab that was, you know, clear by
gaining powers and that kind of his whole plan.
But I think like he definitely chose will.
You know, he saw himself and will, he chose him for a reason.
(43:22):
But if he chose Barb, that's theonly thing I could think of.
Like being in love with your best friend and having to hide
that. Like that's the only thing I can
think of. Because what else do Will and
Barb have in common from what they establish in Season 1?
Yeah, so true. Then it also made me think if
Henry is meant to be gay as well, because like obviously
(43:45):
have so many comparisons in fourbetween Will and Henry.
So then I was like, is that why he targeted Will?
Yeah, I had that question too. And I, I thought coming out of
floor, I was like, I wonder, because my question is why did,
why did Henry kill Alice get hisparents?
But why Alice? Because she's so young.
(44:07):
And the only thing I could come up with was that she saw
something like he witnessed something and told their parents
and that's why they moved or he likes something like that.
That's what got him in trouble. I feel like she has to have
witnessed something because otherwise he could have just
knocked her out or she could have just like let her run away.
Like they all thought it was a demon anyway.
So like, it seems unnecessary. The fact that he, you know,
(44:31):
decided to put his father into atrance and then killed Alice and
tried to kill his dad. Like that's what took him out.
He overdid it. So had he not gone after Alice,
he probably would have been fine.
Like he might have gotten away with it.
So what I came out of four with was like, what did she witness?
And if he sees himself in will, that's will Barb have in common?
Is he gay? Did she see something?
(44:51):
And is that why they moved? Is that part of the origin story
here? Is was Henry convinced in Season
1 that, well, if I have the giftand maybe they have the gift,
and then he killed Barb and was like, OK, well, she didn't have
it. And he went after Will and he's
like, oh, good, we can use this.I'm not saying that like B&K
gives you superpowers, but did Henry think that for a time?
Was that his misunderstanding? Right, that would have been
(45:16):
that's Oh my goodness, it's so interesting.
I'm trying to think like now I'mlike replaying scenes in my head
and trying to think of new theories.
But yeah, it's definitely that thing like they said, linking
them Will and Henry about their sensitive kids or artsy.
So there there could be something there those.
Are definitely some of the questions I was I was left with.
(45:39):
I feel like we're going to get something in season 5 back story
wise. More again, if if Alice saw
something or why did they move or the early days, I feel like
there's a little more there thatwe need to see.
I feel like there's definitely more story that we we need to
get and get a definitive answer on.
Was it just that Henry saw himself and will?
(46:01):
Was that why he was targeted? Was it more than that?
Have all the kills, everything to do with the upside down, all
been Henry's, all connected. Because I feel like there is
enough wiggle room in Season 1 to tie that stuff in and without
redconing it too much or at all in some cases, just because some
stuff was left ambiguous. Yeah.
(46:22):
So to wrap up on Terry, do you think her powers could help out
on the gang in Season 5 in some way?
I don't know that. I think it would be interesting,
but I'm not sure if they'll pullthat out.
Yeah, I wonder too. Like I think it could be
interesting if they connected itthat way or showed the e-mail
and her mom can still connect and communicate in some fashion
(46:42):
or that what she can show or hermemories could help them in
some. Like I see maybe something
simple like you can connect through her mindscape and in the
void and and do it that way. I mean, now that kind of seems
like the town would be under quarantine.
It seems like it had to be like a remote viewing thing rather
than going to visit in person. But I think it's possible.
(47:05):
It's also possible that we don'tsee it and it's just like a wrap
up in the epilogue where they gopay a visit.
I'm thinking now, I'm thinking like maybe if if Elle is able to
unlock whatever in her or her powers to free Max, that may be
in the void, not all the way in,in person, but maybe in the
(47:26):
void, that she would be able to unlock Terry in a way that they
could communicate or have like one last moment.
Yeah. That that would, that would be
really cool. Very poignant, but that would be
very cool. Or like I seem to maybe doing
something where like they find away to communicate in the void
where she's kind of trapped in her body, but they find a way to
communicate that way. That would be kind of cool.
(47:47):
Although it would still be rather sad that would only be L
and she wouldn't be able to communicate that way with Becky.
Although I mean, if once everything's resolved, they
moved up the Hawkins or something, I could sound be the
go between. But yeah, I could definitely
just see them doing something. They're having some kind of like
plans kind of last moment together.
There's definitely a lot of loose ends that they need to tie
(48:09):
up before the show finishes. Oh yeah, definitely.
All right, And so to wrap up ourshow, do you want to tell people
where they can find you on social media and where they can
find you online? Yeah, on Instagram at a Man
1113, so you can check out if I'm performing at any shows or I
post on there if you want to follow my Grey's Anatomy journey
(48:30):
or my Stranger Things journey. Awesome.
All right. So we will have links in the
show notes as to where you can find Alex and the other stuff
that we've talked about, so you can go check all of that out.
Alex, thank you for coming on the show and talking theories
with me. Thank you for having me.
It's fun to have, you know, someone to springboard these
ideas off with and give me ideasfor new theories.
(48:52):
And I'm excited for the final season.
But yeah, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, me too. It's going to be a wild ride for
sure. And that's our show.
If you like what you heard today, be sure to subscribe and
tell your friends. Our theme music is provided by
Neon Nights. Thank you for listening to this
episode of Ham Radio, a StrangerThings podcast.
Please join us next time. Same dial, same time, over and
(49:12):
out.
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