The Lost Sister with Alex Brent

On today’s episode, Jasmin sits down with fellow Stranger Things fan Alex Brent to talk about the show’s most controversial episode The Lost Sister and whether Kali will make an appearance in Season 5!

You can find Alex on Instagram at @aman1113

Miscast Cabaret Performance: https://juniorhighlosangeles.com/calendar/2025/8/16/cabaret-23-unofficial-miscast

Please consider leaving us a rating & review!

Theme Music: ⁠Stranger Things Theme Song (Salvation Synthwave Remix) by Neon Nights⁠

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Follow Ashley on: Instagram

⁠Enjoy our ST Fanfic "Stranger Years: College" on Ao3⁠

Have an episode suggestion or a theory you would like to share or hear us discuss? Email us at [e-mail]

Ham Radio: A Stranger Things Podcast is proudly presented by Ham Radio Media

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
It's a ham radio. The Cadillac of ham radio.
Hello everyone, welcome back to yet another episode of Ham

(00:22):
Radio, a Stranger Things podcast.
We've got a great episode for you today as usual.
But first, we have a little housekeeping to take care of.
And I'm going to turn it over toJasmine to let you know where
you can find us on social media and where you can listen to the
podcast. Thanks, Ashley.
You can find us on Instagram at HAM Radiomedia, all one word on

(00:44):
Twitter at HAM through on YouTube at HAM Radiomedia or
using our handle, HAM Radio 1983.
We also have a Discord you can join which is linked to the
description of this episode. If you have a fan theory or
question you want to share, you can e-mail us at
[e-mail]. Ashley also has a fanfic on AO3
entire Stranger Things College, which is also LinkedIn the

(01:07):
description. The podcast is available on all
major podcasting platforms including Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, and much more.
If you like the show, please consider leaving us a rating or
review. We have a lot of totally
tuberous stuff coming up, so be sure to follow us on social
media to keep up with the podcast and all of our new
content. All right, welcome back to

(01:27):
another episode of Ham Radio, a Stranger Things podcast.
We have a special guest joining us today.
Please give a warm ham radio. Welcome to Alex Brent.
We know each other from my days on Danced out a Grey's Anatomy
podcast, Real throwback for our long time fans there.
Welcome to the show, Alex. Hi, thank you.
Thank you for having me. Jasmine, nice to be talking with

(01:48):
you again. Yeah, well, we're super excited
to have you. I'm excited to be here.
Thank you. So you and I know each other
from the dental podcast days. Are you still watching Grey's
Anatomy at this point? I am, yeah.
I'm a die hard fan. There's been like so many points

(02:08):
over the years where like friends or family has stopped
watching, but I just, I think I'll keep watching until the
very end and then just keep rewatching it.
That's fair. Yeah.
I I would consider myself a thatHeard fan up to a point.
But when Meredith left the show,for me, that was the point where
I'm like, OK, I'm, I'm getting off this train at this point.

(02:30):
Definitely, that was definitely a big shift for the show.
So I think that definitely fans left then, and then there's
still some that still stayed around.
It's definitely a new era, but it is what it is.
Yeah, for sure. I mean everything has its, its
error and its time I suppose. So do you want to share any of

(02:52):
your current projects that you're working on with our
listeners? I'm sure I have a performance in
the LA area next month. So if anyone's going to be in
the LA area or if you live in the Los Angeles area, it is a
miscast where we just our third show that I've done with this
company called Cabaret 23, wherewe put on miscast performances

(03:15):
based on like the New York miscast where singers perform in
roles that they typically wouldn't be tasked in.
So it's always a really cool opportunity not only to get on
stage, but to do some of these musical numbers that like I
wouldn't typically perform even though like I would really want
to perform, you know, because I wouldn't be cast in those shows
ordinarily. So that's going to be next month

(03:39):
on August 16th. If you're in the LA area, you
want to check it out. The website is Junior high
losangeles.com. Awesome, that sounds like so
much fun and we can do a link out to that in our show notes as
well. Perfect.
Sounds great. Alrighty, so when did you begin

(04:00):
watching Stranger Things? Yeah, I was trying to think
about when I first started watching.
I don't specifically remember, Ijust I remember like watching it
from season 1. So I mean, I doubt that it was
like the first day, but it was probably once it started getting
hype like on social media, I started watching it.
But I definitely started watching it like when it was
still I I wouldn't say airing right because it's Netflix.

(04:24):
So I guess like before season 2 came out.
So I was definitely interested from an early time.
I just don't remember specifically when I started
watching it but I loved it from like the opening scene.
So you were like an OG fan like that first year it came out, you
were like part of the the first group of fans.
Definitely. And then I looked forward to

(04:45):
like every new release every year since.
I wanna every year, but you know, every three years since.
Then used to be every every yearand then.
Yeah, exactly. Of course.
Yeah. So I was actually late to the
party. I didn't watch the show until
COVID. I, I didn't watch it when it was

(05:09):
first on because second heard about it.
And Netflix kept showing that one clip of 11 at the lab where
Brenda's trying to get her to like crush the coke can, like
kill the cat. And this was when they just
rolled out the like feature at the top where they'd show clips,
but you couldn't turn it off andyou couldn't mute them either.
And the algorithm decided that'swhat I wanted to see.

(05:30):
And it kept showing like the creepiest clips over and over
again. And so I thought it was
something about some sort of mental hospital or some
government piracy thing. And it just looked like really
creepy. And I had a best friend who of
mine who tried to get me to watch it, and I just kept
putting her off. Like, you know, it just, it
didn't look like my kind of thing.
And when I would talk to people about it.

(05:51):
I've since realized that everybody talks about their
favorite part of the show. So like I had a cousin who tried
to get me to watch it, but they kept talking about like the
Upside Down and like the monsters and stuff.
And so I, it came across as thisvery like creepy horror, very
disturbing show. And that's not my thing.

(06:11):
I don't like horror. I don't like jump scares.
That's not my thing. And then I saw the movie Free
Guy and I love that movie. It's one of my favorites.
I saw like 4 times and I walked out of the theater that first
time and I was like, I have to see those actors and the people
involved with that movie in absolutely everything that was
great and Joe Curie is in that movie.
And so I started Googling what the actors had been in.

(06:35):
Stranger Things popped up, and Isaid to my best friend, if you
watched it right, she's like, yeah, do you think I would like
it? She's like, yeah.
And I was like, does it have, like, a lot of jumpscares?
Is it really scary? And she's like, no, there's a
couple of jumpscares in the first season with the monster.
I can tell you when they're coming.
But like, it's more of a mystery.
And then the third season, they get really into the 80s and the
nostalgia vibe. And then we watched like, the

(06:56):
first few episodes, I was hooked.
I remember she came over becausewe were like one bubble during
COVID, me and her, and she came over like Nancy had gone into
the tree and we were like, Oh myGod, 'cause she'd seen it, but
it been, it been a while. She watched it with me and I was
like, we have to go to bed, we have to work tomorrow.
But she just went into the tree.Oh my God, don't go into the

(07:19):
tree. So we like binged watch in a few
days and then we watched like within a few weeks we watched
everything up to three. And luckily by the time we
finished the first teaser, we'reout for season 4.
And then we actually got a release date where she's like,
you're lucky. When I finished season 3, it was
supposed to come out the following year and they could

(07:39):
have been like 2 years at that point or something like that.
Yeah, I actually got into it very late in the game and my
best friend is like, man, took you so long to try to get you to
watch that show and like now you're more into it than I am.
Whereas now, like having got that experience, if she
recommends something, I just go and watch it now 'cause we watch
so much TV during COVID that shehas a really good sense of what

(08:00):
I can handle, like what's scary,what's not, like whether I'd
like something. It was almost like the universe
telling you to watch it. So not only was like Netflix
trying to get you to watch it from like the little preview,
but like also like Joe Carey having been in Free Guy, you're
like, well, I guess I'm going tohave to watch it now.
Yeah, yeah. And that's so that's so true

(08:21):
what you said about like everyone talks about their own
favorite thing from the show because there are so many
elements to the show that everyone, you know, you could be
into like the high school drama part of it.
You could be into like the supernatural mystery.
You could be into, you know, Joyce and Hopper, or you could
be just like a fan of the 80s, or there's always like, there's
so much, so much to this show. Yeah, there really isn't.

(08:44):
I think my favorite part honestly, is the relationships
and the friendships in the show.I think that's my favorite part
because I feel like the actors have such great chemistry and.
Strong. Yeah, even from like the early,
even from like the pilot begin the first episode, you can see
like the friendships and the just the strength between the
characters and then as that develops.

(09:05):
And you don't often get that lucky with child actors
specifically. Yeah, I remember that
specifically from the first season like that, what is what
drew me in so much was like all of these child actors were so
good, like such strong actors for being like what, 10-11 in
the first season. Yeah, and for, for, like, for

(09:25):
Gaten and Caleb, like they've been on Broadway.
They had crews before this, but this was Millie and Finn's like
first big roles, you know, like really been all their stuff.
This was like the first big role.
Show Speaking of, since we were talking about me being a Grey's
Anatomy fan, I, I knew I knew from that episode that Millie
Bobby Brown is in of Grey's Anatomy.

(09:46):
For fans who might not know, shewas actually very much like the
1/3 of that episode was just a voice over the phone.
I remember being like, whoever this child actor is, it's really
good. And then like seeing who she was
again, this was like years before Stranger Things.
I was like, this girl's great. She's gone places.
She's going to be a phenomenal actress.
And then like, what, maybe two years later, she was in The

(10:07):
Stranger Things and the rest is history.
Oh, it sounds like nice that youclocked that.
Like I didn't like I'd obviouslyseen that episode, but I
remembered it. I didn't realize that was her
until years later that popped upon something on like Instagram.
My friend were like, Oh my God, that is her.
And that happens to me all the time.
We're like, I've seen something,but I've seen a later thing.

(10:28):
And since I didn't know who thatperson was when I watched that
original thing, they'll pop up years later.
And I'm like, oh, that was an earlier role of yours.
But yeah, she's very, she's definitely a very strong actor
from a young age. And I think something you see in
in that role over the phone and Stranger Things is how much she
can emote or do stuff without dialogue or just her voice,

(10:52):
which is a very unique skill that is definitely served her
well in a role like 11. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, you don't often get that lucky with child actors.
And something I love about the show is that they take these 80s
stereotypes. They're very like 2 dimensional
when they start off and they make them 3 dimensional and they

(11:15):
subvert those expectations and they feel like real people.
They feel like people you could bump into on the street.
And that's such like a rare quality, such like an
interesting premise and way to approach it because you go into
the season, you think you know, and then by the end of it, they
they subvert those expectations.Definitely, yeah.

(11:35):
I I totally get that. Like taking the stereotype of
like breaking it down more, you see like this like archetypal
kind of character. But then you see, like, you peel
the onion a little more and see like, why they're like that.
And I just think that's also a testament to the writing as just
so brilliant. Yeah, the writing on the show is
so, so strong that like, even inits weaker point, it's still

(11:56):
better than like most other things out there, I think.
Yeah, that's true. It's so good.
Yeah, so I'm I'm very excited for for season 5.
I looks like it's going to be epic.
Yeah, I, it's, it's going to be crazy.

(12:17):
I, I don't even know what to expect.
I'm like, already in tears. Yeah, it's definitely going to
be emotional, for sure. All right, so we're going to get
in today's topic. So we're going to be talking
about some pretty spicy stuff and some controversial
characters. That's right, we're going to be

(12:39):
diving into the infamous Lost Sister episode and talking about
whether Elle's sister Kali Prasad, AKA 8, her mom Terry
Ives, or her aunt Becky will make a return in Season 5 S to
start off the Lost Sister episode.
Do you love or hate this episode?
Because it's very polarizing. Definitely, yeah.

(13:01):
I think people either love it orhate it.
I mean, I'm sure there's some people in the middle of that
spectrum or that binary as well,but for the most part, I think
most people do not like it. I'm in maybe the minority.
I actually don't mind this episode.
I I do enjoy it. I think it's one, one episode,

(13:22):
maybe if it were a longer storyline over the span of
several episodes, I wouldn't have liked it as much.
But I I don't never mind these like one off episodes,
especially when it gives you something new visually.
We had a, you know, couple new characters.
We had a not only a new location, but the fact that it
was a city as opposed to like small town Hawkins, Indiana.
We had, you know, like the big city of Chicago in the 80s.

(13:45):
So I just think it gives the viewers something kind of fun
and new to watch when you know most of the series is like the
same setting. I'm with you.
It's not my favorite episode butI don't hate it.
There's things about it I reallydon't like.

(14:05):
For example, I find the opening scene where Elle goes looking
for Kali and the whole scene with Spider and him like pulling
a knife on her. Like I really don't like that
scene because even like even like her sister calls him out on
that. It's like, well, we're like
attacking like little girls now.Like I, I don't like the opening

(14:27):
scene to that because it also doesn't make a lot of sense
because it was weird writing, I think, because his whole thing
is I think she's a spy, but likeshe's supposed to be like what,
12 there? I mean, the police don't do
that. It just doesn't make any sense.
Like he thinks she's a 12 year old spy.
Like what? Right.
Yeah, I don't know about that one, you silly.

(14:49):
I don't mind the episode as a whole, I think it was cool even
with a different setting. Explored some different things.
That's what I was going to say too.
Like one of my favorite things about the show is watching
Elle's evolution, or I think we call it her evolution.
And so this episode is kind of key in that with Kali kind of
teaching her to hone in her powers and when they're

(15:11):
festering and like moving the train and getting bringing up
the anger. And then like in the end, her
decision to leave that group andgo back to Hawkins to like save
her friends was a really big part of Elle's journey and her
character. So I think that's why for me,
even with like the other characters, it's still a huge
episode. So I I like it.

(15:35):
Yeah, I do too. I wish there had been more
follow up because Kali's obviously upset when Elle
leaves, but we don't really get any follow up on.
Does she still communicate with her?
I mean, we see the mask that shegave her along the wall in
Elle's bedroom in California, but oh.
I didn't even notice that and I'm gonna have to go back and.

(15:57):
Yeah, I this, Oh my gosh, the set design and the hair and
makeup on the show, like the detention of detail is crazy.
Always so much detail for sure, and now I'm going to have to
watch that. Yeah, well, I I can't take all
the credit. I saw it like an article and I
went back and watched it. I read a whole bunch of articles
after four came out for like allEaster eggs.
And. My other favorite one, someone

(16:20):
caught this on Twitter is that in the scene where Max Vecna and
Elle are in the snowball behind them, there are these things
that look like marshmallows and like half marshmallow, half like
blue jello. And they recreated those for
that scene. They're on the table behind
them. Like they recreated the desserts
from the snowball and you have to pause it to see it because it

(16:42):
like, you know, they're moving around so much.
But the set decorating crew tookthe time to, like, recreate the
marshmallow things for that scene.
Yeah. They probably looked at all
their like old like pictures from the set from then and then
for reference and been like wellI guess we have to make these
again to make it match. Yeah, and something I really

(17:02):
liked about four is they reuse props and stuff like the Michael
Myers mask and. Totally.
Yeah, I saw that. Must have a very good catalog
system for photos and costuming and all the props they use.
I was about to say like imagine how big that binder is, but then
I realized that it's 2025 and I'm sure everything is digitally

(17:25):
recorded nowadays so. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they have
a probably some backup binders in case everything goes down,
I'm sure. One thing I noticed because I
just recently rewatched the LostSister episode in preparation
for today was it in that beginning scene when Elle is
walking in to meet them there's a painted like a spray painted

(17:47):
magic 8 ball on the wall and I was like OK 8 love it.
Oh that's cool. I love that.
Like they put so much like attention to detail.
I saw something where somebody like the head of the the the set
depart was being interviewed andthey said for the the mall set

(18:08):
in season 3, every single store in there was shoppable, like
down to the cash register. Oh wow.
They're like, yeah, you could gointo Wicks and sticks and buy
incense if you wanted to. Like it was like a full scale
mall and they did it that way. And apparently they do this for
all their sets so that like the actors can like interact with it

(18:29):
like it's real life. So if you open drawers in a
kitchen, they're full of stuff. If you open bedroom drawers,
closets, that way the actors canlike naturally interact with
their sets and they don't have to like stop what they're doing
because they went in somewhere, they opened something and there
was nothing there. So you could walk through every
single one of those stores that you see in the background for

(18:49):
five seconds as they fight the mind flare and shop the entire
thing. Yeah.
So, so, so detailed. Like especially for like every
single store in the entire mall set.
I used to be a tour guide for Hollywood movie sets.
And that was like, one thing that I pointed out for the TV
show Parenthood was that they had the calendar on their

(19:11):
refrigerator. And every couple weeks that you
would go in there, the calendar would be changed and actually
have like, you know, listed for like, oh, Max's dentist
appointment or Hattie's picking up from her care practice.
Like all this stuff, like as if these people are actually real
people living. Like that's someone's job to go
in there and change this calendar, you know, every
episode, but not only to make itseem like they're actually, you

(19:33):
know, the camera's never going to see that.
Maybe they'll see it a little inthe background or, but it just
does make the actors much more authentic performance.
Oh, that's so cool. Yeah.
And I, I definitely think you can see that in their
performance when it's like a real set they can interact with.
And I feel like the only other show I've heard of that did that
level of detail to their set design was Mad Men.

(19:56):
I read once that to make ice cubes for their drinks, they
haunted down an ice machine fromthe 60s because I guess ice was
made differently back then. And so the ice cubes in their
drink are from an old 60s hotel ice machine.
So they look like the ice cubes the way they were made back
then. They have a slightly different
shape to them. I mean, nobody would notice that

(20:18):
it's it's an ice cube, but. They cared so much about the set
design and they clearly had the budget for they tracked that
stuff down. Just going to say, imagine the
budget just to be like, can we get approved for this ice maker
from like 1960, whatever. But I'm sure there is like
somebody out there who was like,what?
That ice, That's the exact ice we used to have.

(20:40):
Oh, yeah, I'm sure there's somebody out there being like,
oh, they got the ice right, You know, like I'm sure if you were
around back then, people were like, oh, that's what it looked
like. Yeah, that's so funny.
I always, I always loved the oldStranger Things.
I love seeing the old logos for things like Eggo or Coca-Cola,
any of these like big name brandstuff.

(21:01):
But just seeing like the slight variations from previous years.
I know they did the one year, I think it was season 3, and they
did the whole like new Coke thing.
So it's great for like the nostalgia element.
But just to see these things is so cool.
Like we were saying that level of detail.
Yeah, and it makes it feel like lived in.
It makes it feel like like real life, which I think is good

(21:22):
because it contrasts how supernatural a lot of the
elements of the show are, where it feels like a thing that could
happen to real people. Yeah, that's true.
And a point about the food. So when there was that behind
the scenes pic like early on of somebody and their shoe next to
like a box of cheez its I just thought somebody got hungry.

(21:45):
And then somebody pointed out those were vintage Cheez.
Its because that's the old logo.And so the cheez its were part
of the set. They weren't just like eating
Cheez, its because I got hungry.Yeah, that's so funny.
Yeah, I noticed it like same thing like like last season with
Eddie and having like the yoohooand the honeycomb anytime like
you see these like old logos, I'm like, oh, that's how the box

(22:08):
looked back then. Yeah, and it's wild to see how,
like, some stuff has really changed and other logos haven't
changed that much at all. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, the the set design of the show is always top tier.

(22:29):
And getting back about the Lost sister, there was a theory that
was shared with us by the Hawkins Hellfire Collective
podcast, which is they wonder ifit was meant to be a backdoor
pilot. Have you heard about this
theory? I have not heard that specific
theory, but that does like that's totally the vibes that
this episode gets. Like OK, there's going to be a

(22:50):
spin off with Kali and this group of people and their whole
thing. So yeah, that totally make does
give off that vibe that it's like a little backdoor pilot,
even though, like we just said, there is no follow up with those
characters unless they come backin the season or a future
series. But what's the what's your?
What's the theory that you've heard?

(23:12):
So basically the theory is that that episode was intended to be
a backdoor pilot where Kali and her gang we're going to be the
focus. And that's why it looks so
different from the rest of it. Kali is very different than the
other main characters that we have.
She's British and of Indian descent, whereas most other main
characters are white Americans. And we see that she's got a, you
know, different background from Ellen, the other test subjects,

(23:35):
Her powers are different. So I, I think there's something
to it. Like I'd never heard that theory
before. They, they shared it with us.
But the idea that they were supposed to go off and it was
supposed to be a spinoff or her and Elle were going to stay in
touch and then it was going to be a spin off series.
They were going to like wrap it all up together.
And I think if that is true, that is what happened.
I think they were expecting the episode to be better received,

(23:57):
but because it was so different from the show we all know and
love. And like I said, we talked about
the whole scene with Spider. There's just certain things
about it. I don't think the characters
were likeable enough because especially when you talk about
the first season of Stranger Things, the characters have
their flaws, no doubt, but there's something endearing of
each of them, particularly in that season.

(24:17):
And I feel like they didn't do agood enough job of that in The
Lost Sister. Because while you can get the
sense on Kali and a few of the other members of her gang, I
don't feel like you get that sense from all of them.
And I think they went a bit too hard in other directions because
they're like really violent and like really aggressive and.

(24:39):
Straight up like killing these people, yeah.
Yeah, and they're aggressive towards each other.
And it's, it's very aggressive. And they make it clear that
like, Collie's on a mission willtake out anybody that gets in
her way, which is very far from like the themes of love and
friendship and the underdogs andthe weirdos and the freaks
saving the day that are a huge part of things as a show in

(25:02):
general. So I think they tried something
different, and I commend them for doing that.
A lot of people would have just stuck with the same old, same
old. It's the same way I feel about
season 4. I don't think every part of it
worked, but I commend them for trying something different and
not sitting on their laurels. But the thing when you try
something different is it doesn't always work.
And I think in this case, like I'm like you, I, I like the

(25:23):
episode. It's not my favorite, but I, I
don't think it's strong enough to launch a whole spin off.
And I think when they realized that that wasn't going to work,
if that if that is what happened, they just decided to
either close that door or give it some time before they came
back to those characters. Yeah, that that totally makes
sense that because it wasn't well received from the audience

(25:45):
that they were like, nevermind, especially because it wasn't
just like one or two of like Kali's friends.
It was like a whole cast. So it makes sense that they were
like essentially casting a wholenew show that they thought was
going to be like, oh, people aregoing to love this.
They're going to want to see more of the lore.
A couple of other thoughts that I had with this group was one of
the girls, Dottie was giving me total Uma Thurman vibes.

(26:06):
And then it's so funny that likethe next season, we got my a
Hawk on the show. Yeah, and I don't know if you've
heard this story, but when Millie Bobby Brown was like
nervous about shaving her head and Season 1, one of the things
they showed her was like photographs from like, Kill Bill
and. Oh wow.
Uma, Thurman, all that stuff. Which is wow, because again,

(26:28):
they eventually cast my Hawk. Yeah, I love when I love like
Maya Hawk and then like Sean Astin, of course, like the and
like Matthew Moni and Paul Reiser.
Any of these like Winona writer,but like any of these like 80s
actors that are in the show, like I always love seeing them
in there. Yeah, it's it's pretty cool.
And I I remember reading some ofthe differences like, you know,

(26:49):
we don't really believe in cameos.
You know, we, we cast people we think are good for it.
And it just shows that the 80s, we want to bring back icons from
the 80s into our show. And they're like, yeah, like it
was pretty cool. There was this one day where
they had like Sean Ashton, Paul Reiser, Winona had a whole bunch
of those actors like together onset.
And it was like, yeah, we were fanboying pretty hard.

(27:10):
And the fact that Robert Englandsubmitted a tape for Victor
Creole and they got to have him and they've obviously cast Lynn
Hamilton now and. Easter egg, yeah.
I think from what I've read, they didn't even approach him
for it because they to him he isso huge.
They didn't think he'd be interested in like their little
show, which I think is like a perception thing because it's

(27:31):
like it's a huge show. But to them it's like he's so
he's so mad that he wouldn't be interested.
And he heard about what they were doing and he sweated the
tape and they were like, is thatwho I think it is?
And of course they think they would have written a much larger
part for Victor had he been heading with him in mind.
But then when he auditioned, they were like, Oh my gosh.
Like they made it as big as theycould with the time they had so.

(27:54):
I thought that was interesting. So cool.
I think it works as like a one episode thing, like telling the
back story because you don't want too much even though it is
like a really cool cameo. Yeah, and I, I do hope we are
going to get some follow up on Victor I, you know, even just in
the epilogue I. Think there will be?

(28:15):
Yeah, for this final season. For them to like exonerate the
guy and for him to be able to live a quiet life somewhere.
Poor guy, Poor guy. Poor dude down in his little
Hannibal Lecter basement. Yeah, and I and I, I actually
really loved the Victor Krill storyline because one of my, you

(28:35):
know, huge pet peeves is that a lot of shows will, you know, try
to do some sort of less scary mental hospital type storyline.
And it just winds up making, youknow, those of us who suffer
from mental illness like the butt of the joke.
And it's like really harmful. And when they did the fake
announcement about Jamie Campbell Bower and they made it

(28:58):
and about him being an orderly and standing up, I was like, oh
God, don't go that road. Don't, please don't do that.
And then of course, you know, his role was much more than
happened. But I really loved the Victor
cruel storyline because I found a way to make it creepy and
interesting, but also being likerespectful and like, you know,
they they went out of the way. You know, when Nancy and Robin
are there, they're like confused.
They're like, where are the fences?

(29:18):
Like where are the And they're like, no, like these people like
are here by choice. They want to get better.
They didn't have to go out of their way to dispel those myths
and to show actual treatments ina safe place, but they did.
And that doesn't make that storyline any less creepy or
cool. And I just, I really love the
care they showed with that. I thought it was really well

(29:39):
done. Yeah.
And it's important that they they are putting that element of
care in there and they're not just like projecting, again,
like negative stereotypes or just like what people have come
to expect, especially from like the way Hollywood portrays
mental illness or these kinds ofinstitutions, these treatment
centers. But again, seeing it as more the

(29:59):
treatment side of it. Yeah, and I feel like they must
have had a lot of consultants specifically on for my host.
And I've been doing a series where we break down the script
for the mascara at Hawkins Lab and you can tell there's stuff
in there that was removed. And I, I would have to guess
that they probably have some kind of mental health consultant
on that to review scripts and belike, OK, what's appropriate

(30:22):
here? How do we show this
appropriately? And I think it shows that like,
if you get the right people around you, like if you don't
have an expertise, get the rightpeople around you who can tell
you what that is. And it makes for like so much of
a stronger story. Like, you know, nothing was
taken away from that episode by them during that.
And it only made the Victor Cruel storyline like, so much

(30:45):
stronger. Yeah, because sometimes people
in these positions in Hollywood,they don't even know any better.
So yeah, just having that personon set to tell them or to just
suggest alternate routes of portraying something in a better
light. And again, it doesn't affect the
storyline any in any way. Yeah, so that that was something
I really loved about four and getting back to the Lost sister.

(31:09):
I I was doing research for this episode into Kali and how she
wound up there, stumbled across the fact that according to a
newspaper clipping that we see in the Lost Sister, callers
originally from London. And in 1969, when she's five
years old, Doctor Brenner and his associates abduct her from
there and bring her to Hawkins National Laboratory in Indiana.

(31:31):
Efforts by local police to trackher down are unsuccessful.
And what's wild to me is that Brenner took his abduction ring
international. That is a huge risk for him to
take. Right.
Yeah, so crazy, especially sinceeverything else is like local to
USA and to the government. That's so cool that you because
I did see the the newspaper article out like that's what

(31:52):
Elle used to find Kali and you can see like the general
headline about London girl. But that's cool.
I was trying to pause it to to try to read the article.
So that's cool that you kind of just gave me the rundown there.
But yeah, that's so interesting that like you were saying she is
different from the other subjects or the other numbers at
Hawkins Lab and that, yeah, thatBrenner took this international.

(32:13):
So interesting and like you said, risky.
Yeah, which is one of the reasons why I think the backdoor
pilot theory has weight, becauseI can't really think of another
reason that stands out to me forwhy they would pick an actor
that is so different. Because by picking an actor with

(32:36):
that accent, with that background, it's clear that she
was abducted from somewhere outside of the US.
And so that means they went international with this
abduction ring. And that is such an incredibly
huge risk for Brenda to be taking, especially when he had
plenty of kids to abduct in the US or in Canada.
They somebody won an obscene amount of money from the
government a few years back overthat.

(33:00):
Yeah, As we saw, there was othertest subjects.
So I think maybe because of her specific power he was drawn to,
that's obviously such a strong power that she has, which also
is something we can talk about for potentially her making her
appearance in Season 5. Yeah, just, well, to me that
like there was something about Callie apparently that he took

(33:21):
that big of a risk by going to another continent.
Yeah, and I think that's what we're saying too.
Like there's obviously more to this story and they were
definitely trying to make this like a spin off or something
that just kind of sizzled out because there's obviously so
much question and so much out there that they were trying to
set up. Yeah, And even her mission about

(33:44):
trying to kill everyone that wasassociated with the lab project,
I feel like that guy saying Brenner was still alive was a
bit of a misdirect. We all thought that was
nonsense. And it's like, Oh yeah,
apparently he was still alive. Yeah.
So like, what did he know? And yeah, definitely.
And and also, just like by season 4, we we find out that

(34:06):
like what she's been doing is ultimately futile because every
time you kill people in the lab,she seems to think it's like
final, that's it. But as we learn, you can get the
lab shut down Hawkins, you can kill people associated with the
project. The government will just keep
building more labs, keep hiring more people.
Every department's got a different approach, but they'll
just keep doing it. I I do kind of wonder, what are

(34:29):
those characters up to now? Because even if they did manage
to take out everyone associated with the original project, from
what we know is the audience, it's like, OK, well you took
those guys out, but there are other people now.
Yeah, totally. And the other thing I thought
was interesting is when I was doing research for this article,

(34:51):
I came upon this in these Stranger Things week.
Yeah. And there's a linked article
from 2017 stating that originally the Duffer brothers
intended for the character of eight to be male test subject #9
and in their 30s. However, when they couldn't find
the right person to play the part, they decided to change the
casting column to include women and younger actors.

(35:12):
And what I find interesting about that is A, they picked
this actress and B, there's a lot of what became Henry Creel
in that description. Totally.
Yeah. In their 30s, male, obviously
they were having this character was going to have some kind of
powers. Huh, That's so interesting.

(35:34):
So I kind of wonder when they couldn't find what they wanted,
they pivoted, picked this other actress, built everything else
around them, and we're like, OK,this is going to be a spell if
we're going to explore this. And then it wasn't well received
and they're like, nevermind, OK,we're not doing that.
And then when they went to buildout, you know, the character of
Henry Creel in, you know, in anticipation for four, well,

(35:57):
they went back to that. And I remember seeing interviews
where Jamie Campbell Bower said,you know, during his interview
process, they were like, Oh my God, we love your voice.
We love your voice. And you thought that was kind of
weird. And then he realized that the
reason they were saying that is they wanted someone who could
naturally do both, like the Henry Creel voice and the Vecna
voice. And when I first saw boy, I
thought it was modulated. I didn't realize I was his

(36:18):
actual voice until I started seeing him do interviews and he
was doing the voice because people would ask him to.
I was like, oh wow, that's his actual voice.
So that's they're not faking that.
And. Same thing.
I thought that it was just like a computer effect until like
instead I was seeing videos likeon social media with him doing
the voice and I was like, whoa, an exceptional actor, but like

(36:41):
to be like, whoa, that's just like his voice sounds like
literally completely different. Yeah, that what is that Jimmy
Fallon interview where he's likedoing the stuff from like ROM
coms in the Vecna voice? I remember getting that infamous
famous meme of him in the chair with the Starbucks cup.
I remember getting that drink when he had an interview, like,

(37:04):
what were you drinking? And I was like, oh, I have to go
get the Vecna drink now. Oh that's hilarious.
My favorite one was they took a photo somebody in the hair and
makeup department had a vintage car until they decided to take
some photos of him. Like with his arm out the
window. I thought that was photoshopped

(37:25):
until I saw an interview and they're like, no, we actually
just had the guy sit in my car in the parking lot in the full
Vecta get up and realizing that like that's not After Effects.
They literally found a guy who could do both the voices and
then put him in full individual prosthetic get up for all of his
scenes. So I really appreciate they do a
lot of stuff practically becauseI feel like today, so many

(37:48):
shows, it's all CGI and tech andthat's of ages so poorly.
Yeah. My biggest example with that is
Jurassic Park versus Jurassic World.
When you see like the practical stuff from the early 90s versus
like the CGI of today, the practical stuff always looks so
cool. And I think that Stranger
Things, what they do so well, isblending the practical and the

(38:11):
CGI. The CGI is very good and the
practical is really good on set.And then being able to add a
couple of like moving tentacle elements onto Vecna on top of
the practical, like crazy prosthetics that he has.
And it just makes it look so cool and dynamic.
Yeah. And I think that that's what's
going to make the show hold up over time because I think the

(38:34):
practical stuff will still hold up because the other stuff like,
yeah, like technology will advance, but I think that part
will still hold up. And I think that will stand in
the test of time. And it's also a better
experience for the actors. I remember the Duff brothers
said in an interview that part of the reason they did so much
practically in for was that because in three, a lot of it

(38:56):
was them acting with a tennis ball because of the Mind Flayer.
So they wanted to give the actorsomething to work with.
Yeah, especially when you have like child actors.
I used to know in that first season they had a lot of like
practical Demogorgon stuff on set because we weren't really
seeing the Demogorgon fully in Season 1, couple shots here and

(39:16):
there with CGI. And then in season 2, they were
using a little ball or a little 3D model of dart, Dartanian,
slug. So I just love the practical
stuff on this show. Like you said, it's going to
hold up 1020 years when people rewatch this stuff and they're
just look, it's going to look sogood.
Yeah, I love how they do it too.The fact that, like the upside

(39:37):
down vines, are all pool noodles.
That's so funny. I saw one of the behind the
scenes videos. They said they saved the entire
pool company from going out of business because they were about
to fold. And then they were running out
of pool noodles because there's so much upside down stuff in
five. And they literally called up
this company like, can we buy your entire stock of pool

(39:59):
noodles? And they're like, are you
serious? And they're like, yeah, so they
literally saved this company from going out of business
because they bought all their pool noodles.
I bet that I bet their favorite show is Stranger Things now.
Yeah, I'm sure it is. I'm sure we.
Have our whole rest of our livesnow to thank the Duffer
Brothers. And those you know, vine pool

(40:22):
noodles. Yeah, that's so cool.
That's crazy that they were intending the Kali character to
be Zek now, or they were trying to introduce that stuff early on
with that character, where then you could see where they just
had to kind of rewrite and change things, like you said,
after they cast someone. And then I also wonder if that's

(40:44):
why that character is Indian from London, because of the
actress. They probably were looking for
someone. They were like, oh, we like this
actress and we'll just build therole around her, basically.
Yeah, I think so, and I'm glad they picked they picked for
Vecna. I don't think anybody else could
do Vecna slash Henry Creel the way JB Campbell Bower does.

(41:08):
Yeah, they're like both sides ofhim, yeah.
And apparently he's like so terrifying yet like, calm down
the actors on set for four, likeapparently like Millie Polly
Brown was like crying like, because I I would hazard that
after Season 3, they probably thought they were going to be
acting with a green suit or a tennis ball.
And I'm sure it's terrifying when you walk onto set and you

(41:28):
thought something was going to be CGI.
And it's like, no, no, he's right there.
Yeah, I'm sure that would be so terrifying, like right in front
of you. Yeah.
So like, obviously they worked past it, but yeah, I'm sure that
would be very scary. Great performance wise.
Like we're saying the shrink gets up in your face with that
arm with a hand in your face. Like, no, I'm not acting.

(41:51):
I just want I didn't want him tobe this close to me.
Yeah, it's not, it's not really acting because he actually looks
terrifying and he's right there and this floor is very wet and
I'm running and I don't like this.
And yeah, so Speaking of Season 5, our friends at Star, quote,

(42:15):
study Hall, had this interestingtheory about the Nina project in
Season 4 and how they thought itcould have been better
integrated if Kali had been partof that storyline or part of
that introduction somehow. And so let me to wonder if
they're going to reintroduce that character in Season 5, how
they might do it. So do you have any thoughts on

(42:37):
that? Yeah, that's I was definitely
have been thinking about that because that's always been the
question since that episode. Will we see this character
again? Will we see 8?
Will she come back in the end tokind of maybe save the day?
And I don't know if she will because it's so late in the
game, but if she does, I think that there's something there.

(43:00):
I feel like when Vecno admitted to Elle that he was after her
powers, it made me think I'm well, then why didn't he go for
Kali's power? Because that would be such a
crazy power to have that you canshow, you know, this whole group
of people something that that that that he wants them to see

(43:21):
that could be completely, you know, fabricated.
So I feel like there's somethingthere.
I just don't know what as far asdid he get her powers?
Is she right now in his mind layer?
And we didn't know this whole time.
And then that makes me think about Max and the possibility of
Max and Kali and taking down Vecna in the final season.

(43:50):
Yeah, I I wonder about that too.Like like my thing is for Season
5, like I was wondering if couldshe be working with the Doctor
Kay character when we see her and the rest of the gang appear
at the final battle. I could see maybe a final battle
or takedown being more likely because why do you think they
could have integrated the Nina project a little bit better?

(44:10):
I mean, because as a character, seems she's helping on telling
everybody who was ever associated with the lab project.
So unless Brenner or Owens or somebody has found a way to
trick her or doctor camp, don't see her willingly working with
anyone associated. But I do feel like that stuff
could have been better integrated.

(44:31):
So yeah, I I do wonder about that as well.
Yeah, definitely. I, I don't know if she will, but
like I said, it would be really cool and if she did, if she had
some kind of something, if therewas something a way to bring her
back or like you said, maybe a final showdown.
My, my theory and my own head candidate of what I may be

(44:52):
anticipating for this final season is Elle is trying to find
Max and Max is somehow with Kaliin Vecna's mind layer and
they're able to show him something that makes him.
I don't know. I actually don't know.
Yeah, I could see that. I could see that.
Yeah. It'd be cool to find a way to
reintegrate that character before the show ends.

(45:16):
Yeah. And it's just such a strong
power that I feel like Vecna would have gone for.
Because now I'm questioning, like, is anything we're seeing
real? And if I go with that theory of
that Vecna has her power this whole time, is anything that
we're seeing actually real? Or are these characters just
seeing it? Are they seeing the Upside Down
coming into the end of the at the end of four?
Like that whole shot. Maybe that's just Vecna using

(45:37):
Colleen's power to show them that, but I'm sure that's not
what it is. Yeah, I could definitely see him
using a power like that to try and take advantage of them in
Season 5. But I could also totally see
Kali just never coming back as well and that also being what
happened so. Yeah, yeah.
That's also a possibility. I feel like now let's just

(45:57):
ignore it because they did bringup in season 5 Henry talking to
Elle, what he said, just a little throwaway line like this
is when 8 was still here or thisbefore 8 left.
And then I think in the last episode of Lost Sister episode,
she talked about Kali talked about, oh, I came back and you
weren't there anymore. So I feel like there's a little
bit of retcon as far as like when did Kali Lee?

(46:20):
Was it before this incident or before that did?
Did Elle escaping the reason whyCollie left or Collie left way
before that the way that they did it in season 4?
Of course Collie left before themassacre at Hawkins Lab, but I
think it was meant to be that Elle leaving is why she left
originally. Yeah, I think so too.

(46:44):
And I saw someone point out thatpeople just like that episode so
much that they literally wrote around a character that cannot
be should have been there. Yeah, totally.
Yeah. They're just like, we're just
going to potentially not hear and just ignore all of that
other stuff that we had in an episode.
Yeah, and also the fact that like Kali appears to be an
outlier because the other kids lab seem to have the same powers

(47:07):
as Henry. Yeah, totally.
I do wonder, since we know it all came from him, I wonder if
he already has that power, like the power to make people see
things. Or did another kid at the lab
have her power and since he killed all those kids gain their
powers? Does he already have it?
Right. That's such a good one.
There's so many theories. We just need this season to be

(47:28):
out. But yeah, what was what was
interesting about watching at this most recent rewatch was
that having seen four and havingseen the massacre now re
watching the lost sister seeing 8 and elevens reunion was kind
of emotional because I'm like, oh, these are the only two.
I mean, other than Henry, I'm like, these are the only two of

(47:49):
these kids left. And so it was kind of like, you
know, when they had that moment of sister sister, I was like,
oh, wow, they're really they're the last.
They're the only two sisters. This is different having again
watching it after season 4. Yeah, it's definitely got more
weight to it. Like, it's definitely like a

(48:09):
more emotional reunion than it is when you first watch it.
Yeah, for sure. There's a few emotional moments
in that episode. Another one that I loved was
when Elle was seeing Hopper's message to her in the cabin,
when she was in her mind layer and kind of looking at the, I
think it's the radio that was kind of emotional too.

(48:31):
Just to know that she knows thathe's still out there loving her.
And yeah. No, I I love them.
They don't make the best roommates but I love their
relationship. They're so sweet.
Definitely. And then I also love that
episode because of Elle's bitch in makeover.

(48:51):
I love that look. That's one of my favorite Elle
looks from all of the series. I have a pop of her in the
floating position in that outfit, of course, but I just
love, again, that episode brought us that Makeover and
that look in general. So bitch in.
Yeah, that's that's pretty greatlook of hers.
And now that you say that, well,they don't bring up Collie.

(49:15):
They do bring up bitching repeatedly.
Like they it comes up in 2. I don't know if it comes up in
3, but it comes up in 4. And it makes me wonder if the
other kids even know what that'sfrom.
Because as many people pointed out, when Elle talks to Hopper
about where she's been, he knowsthat he she went to go see her
mom and Becky and that she hitchhiked, but she does not

(49:38):
tell him about Collie. And OK, she's just bitching, but
I mean it. We don't see her ever share that
with Hopper. Or Mike or anybody.
Or Joyce or anybody do you thinkelse told anyone in her life
about Colleen? I'm curious to know what you
were going to say. I the only person I could see is

(49:59):
Will because they get very closewhile she's in California.
And I could see it coming up as just grieving Hopper and Will,
you know, as grieved Bob. And so I could see if we see the
mask on the wall in her room, I could see it coming up if he's
coming up there to comfort her or talk about school or just,
you know, that thing when you'retrying to get someone to open up

(50:19):
and you're like point to something and you're like, oh,
where'd you get that? I could see her opening up to
him and telling him about it. And then we'll not sharing that
because he's like, she's going to be in so much trouble if I
share this. And since we see in Ford that
he's been covering for them, Jonathan and Elle, you know, for
months, he's just trying to be agood friend and a good brother

(50:41):
there. And you don't want them to get
in trouble. So I could see that maybe she's
told him and I can also see Willnot say anything because he
thinks the others know. He could think that Hopper knows
or that Mike knows. And if it does come up and him
being surprised and been like, what do you mean you don't know?
Well, it's not my fault she doesn't tell you things, Mike.
Like, we don't need to talk about it because we all know

(51:03):
about it. That's such a good theory about
Will. And again, I need to go back and
watch these California episodes to look for that mask.
My theory was Max. I thought that maybe in the
whole bonding of them in Season 3, especially because this is
the first girl other than the boy group that she's bonding
with over the course of season 3, that they were doing the

(51:23):
whole spin the bottle and go spying on Mike and the boys and
and and on Billy. That maybe she told Max about
Collie because she's another badass girl that she met along the
way. And they're having their whole
like Wonder Woman discussion. And so I thought maybe she could
have told Max again, which is feeds into my theory of Collie

(51:44):
coming back somehow with Max. But again, who knows?
That's a good idea. I had not considered Max at all,
but you're right, that could have come up in that
conversation. And you know, as they're spying
and they're sharing things. And again, Max is not a tattle
tale. So if she's told Max, Max has

(52:05):
probably not told anybody else. Yeah, like, let me tell you
about my sister. This girl was so cool and she
could do this and she can make people see this and.
Yeah, for sure. And I could, I could definitely
see some kind of scene towards the end where they're like, what
do you mean you didn't know? Well, I'm not a snitch.
Not my fault she doesn't tell you things.
Like I feel like Will and Max would have the same reaction

(52:28):
there. It's like, not my fault she
doesn't tell you things, Michael.
Like talk to the hand, like. Yeah.
I honestly it's sad that Will and Max don't get more scenes
because I feel like they have a similar energy especially when
it comes to Elle. That's true, yeah.

(52:50):
They could definitely share a perspective.
There's a lot of characters thatdon't intersect.
There's the whole thing online about Will and Steve never
really sharing any substantial scene or speaking to another
other than like 1 scene in passing at the beginning of
three when they're in the movie theater.
Like that's another one of my favorite parts of the show is
just the whole character of Willin general.
I mean, obviously it starts withhim and then vanishing and just

(53:11):
his journey as well over the years and with his sexuality in
this past season. I think that'll come into play
in the fifth season as well. So just watching those two
characters of Elle and Will specifically their journeys over
the seasons is my favorite part of the show.
Yeah, I, I'm with you there. I I'm also a big will fan.

(53:33):
I'm super excited for his arc infive because the Duff brothers
said that, you know, they reallygoing to be focusing on him.
A lot of people weren't here if they were going through with
that, but it looks like him and Ella are going to have these
parallel journeys this season. And for the clips we've gotten,
like Noah Schnopp is really acting his heart out and I'm so
excited. They're also two of my favorite
characters. I love Will as the character and

(53:56):
I'm really excited for five because, you know, a lot of
people talked about the acting in four and how it wasn't the
strongest acting for Finn and Noah.
And my theory on all that is that because Noah had not come
out yet. And you know, when he did come
out, the response from the people in his life was, you
know, we know, we know it's all good man.
I since they've all known each other for a very long time.

(54:19):
My theory on that is, you know, Noah's talked about how he was
holding back in that season because he did not allow himself
to connect with that part of will because he was not ready to
connect with that part of himself and come out yet.
And my theory on that is I thinkhis castmates and friends sense
that. And so I think Finn was holding
back a lot in four because I think between 3:00 and 4:00, I

(54:41):
have that whole scene. It's not my fault you don't like
girls. I think by the time they filmed
4, Finn knew. I think he knew.
And I think they were holding back out of respect.
Didn't want to push it because Iknew he wasn't ready.
And I'm so excited for five because it'd be the first season
where like he can bring his likefull self to set.
And you know, people can just, you know, they can just talk and

(55:04):
like that nobody has to hold back or anything.
And I think a lot of actors I know have talked about like, you
know, when you finally come out,when you have that journey, how
you can bring your full self to set and how you can, you know,
it's a better performance and you feel so much better.
And I think just the clips we'veseen, like to me, the acting is
so much stronger. I think because you had to go,

(55:24):
he had to go on that personal journey himself to connect with
that. Now I'm just so excited for his
dirty in this in Season 5. I'm so excited.
Definitely, I'm excited that they are coming through with
that about him being a major part of it.
I mean, obviously it started with him.
So in my own mind, it wasn't a question that Will would be a
major part of the final season. So for them to say that, I was

(55:45):
like, oh, well, yeah. But we are seeing that with the
poster they just released. Like, he's riding his bike in
front, leading the group. And that was like, that alone,
like, gave me all the feels. And I was like, Oh my God, Will
is leading them. So I feel like he's going to
play a major part in this final season and the final showdown
takedown. But yeah, I could totally see
that maybe Noah was holding backbecause you see, especially in

(56:08):
season 2, I mean, that whole like a scene he's in the shed
Outback and they're trying to toget the mind flare out of him,
his acting as one of the strongest acting scenes in the
entire series. But you see that Noah is such a
strong actor. And then in season 4, you can
kind of sense some some holding back or that he's not quite
maybe there's some hesitation inhis performance there.

(56:30):
And then like you said, now thathe's more comfortable and out.
And I mean, these kids grew up around one another.
I'm sure they all knew. I think as far as him saying
anything or the unspoken, I think Millie knew from a for a
long time. But yeah, it makes me definitely
excited to see Season 5 and his performance overall.
What? What's going to happen?

(56:53):
Yeah, me too. I'm I'm really excited for that
part of Season 5. And to me it's like, well, it
started with Will and L, like itstarted with his abduction and
her escape. It has to end with them.
It started with them. It's got to end with them.
And however they defeat that, I to me, I think it's like locking
he Ying and Yang. I think it's got to be something
they do together. And the the recent teaser, you

(57:16):
know, you have that scene with Hopper's talking to Elle and
saying where this, you know, this blood trail leads.
I need you to need to follow it.You know, we need to end this
kid. And you can hear Joyce talking
to well-being. I need you to fight, fight last
one last time. And they know this is so hard
for them, but they got to do it because, you know, I, I think
that this kept them alive for a reason.

(57:37):
He's killed anyone else who's gone into the Upside Down, but
somehow they've survived. And I don't think that was
accidental. In four, he says he he keeps her
alive. He wants to watch her friends
die. I think he's kept both of them
alive for a reason. I think he needs them for
something. And whatever that is, I think
that in the end, it's got it started with those two.
It's got to end with those two, to bring it full circle and to

(57:58):
finally defeat this evil so theycan finally have normal ish
lies. Normal for them I guess.
Yeah, I I see that like maybe heneeds them.
He needs Will and Al, he needs specifically why are they why
they've been kept alive. I think there's a big question
or a big mystery as far as the whole Will being going into the

(58:18):
Upside Down in the 1st place andwhat happened to him in that
time before Hopper and Joyce gothim out at the end of season 1.
And then again, what that piece of Will and Hawkins means to
Vecna in the Upside Down and whyhe's been alive and why is the
Upside Down stuck on November 6th and why is all of this the

(58:42):
way it is? So I think there's a big
question that we're going to getanswered to in the in the Season
5. And I just think that
something's going to be really emotional and devastating.
Yeah, yeah. I think it's it's going to be
emotional for sure, for sure. And that's our show.
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(59:03):
Neon Knights. Thank you for listening to this
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