Elyce Arons from Crafting Kate Spade to Launching Frances Valentine | Emily Blumenthal & Elyce Arons

✨ A re-release of one of our favorite episodes! Step into the heart of New York’s fashion legacy with Elyce Arons, co-founder of Kate Spade and Frances Valentine, as she shares the remarkable story behind one of the most iconic handbag brands of all time. 👜💫 From rural Kansas roots to building a global fashion empire alongside her best friend, the late Katie Brosnahan (aka Kate Spade), this episode is a love letter to friendship, creativity, and fearless entrepreneurship.

🎨 Elyce brings us behind the seams—where construction paper mockups, vintage flea market treasures, and unwavering vision laid the foundation for a brand that redefined handbag design. From building Kate Spade from scratch to honoring Kate’s legacy with Frances Valentine, this is a powerful journey of reinvention and staying true to what matters most. 💖🧵

💡 Key Takeaways
 🔹 Start with Heart: How $35k and a bold idea became a household name.
🔹 Vintage Vibes, Modern Magic: Turning old-school inspiration into timeless design.
🔹 Legacy & Love: Creating the next chapter with purpose, passion, and friendship.

🎧 Tune in for an inside look at how two best friends changed the way the world carries style—one bag at a time.

#HandbagDesigner101 #KateSpade #FrancesValentine #FemaleFounders #FashionIcons #BehindTheBag #EntrepreneurLife #StyleWithSubstance

👤 Our Guest: Elyce Arons is the CEO and co-founder of Frances Valentine and one of the original creative forces behind Kate Spade. Her journey is proof that great design, meaningful partnerships, and staying true to your vision never go out of style.

Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.

Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com. 

Buy Emily’s Books: “Handbag Designer 101” & “

Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner

TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter:

(00:21):
All of the samples have beendone, you know, by a
manufacturer, by a sample maker.
So yes, we did it by hand.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, emilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate

(00:50):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Elise Ahrens, welcome toHandbag Designer 101 on the
podcast.
As I said before fangirling outbeyond, I am a huge Frances

(01:11):
Valentine fan.
I love a print.
Don't know if you knew that,but obviously the legacy of what
you've done for handbags isunwavering.
But if you're cool withstarting from the beginning,
beginning that would be great.
If you're cool with that,absolutely.
So you are originally fromKansas.
Yes, what's your story withthat?

(01:34):
You're not there anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
A very unlikely beginning.
So I am the youngest of fourdaughters who grew up on a farm
in Kansas, and my mother was anartist from the East Coast and
created fashion ads for thelocal newspapers, among other
things.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Do you remember her doing that?

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh, yes, absolutely, and she would create ads all the
time and she took asubscription to Women's Wear
Daily and somehow I think I justpicked all that up and I loved
fashion from an early age.
We would go my sisters and Iwould go vintage shopping Back
then.
It was great because there wasso many good things that you
could buy hand beaded things and, you know, pick them up for a

(02:17):
dollar.
So I graduated from high school, went on to college at the
University of Kansas, and it wasthere that I met my best friend
for life, katie Brosnahan, andwe had always planned on having
a business together.
We were both majoring injournalism, mostly because of a
love of Mary Tyler Moore and theMary Tyler Moore Show growing
up, and so once we graduated Imoved to New York.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Can I ask you a question before I start?
Yes, so I teach.
I moved to New York.
Can I ask you a question beforeI'll start?
So I teach.
I teach at FIT and the onething I do is at the beginning
of the semester.
Part of my list is askingstudents what number child they
are.
So you know I have three kids.
The difference or the level ofnot interest but effort with kid

(03:03):
number three is like kibble onthe floor compared to kid number
one.
You know like you'll be fineversus like we're going to do
this You're going to do.
Do you find like?
Is your oldest sister a doctor,lawyer, like very responsible
person?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
color in the lines my oldest sister is a is a teacher
, and now it's a teacher.
Yes, yes, middle sister was aballet dancer, moved to New York
, which is how I even came up tovisit and moved up here, fell
in love with New York City and Ijust thought, wow, everyone is
so well dressed and good lookingand I want to live there and it
just.
You know, when I came to visitat 14, it was the top of the

(03:38):
world and I thought you were inhigh school the first time you
went to New York.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, it's quite's quite the defining moment, isn't
it?
It is when you see things thatyou, you know, you go to New
York, you put on your coolestclothes and then you go there
and you're like I am so uncoolcomparatively to the random
person on the street, you know,like it's a game changer, Like
here you have Women's Wear Daily, and then you see it in real
life, it, and then you see it inreal life, it's like oh, oh
damn.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Look at that, exactly , exactly.
And I, just I, fell in lovewith New York and knew I wanted
to, you know, move as soon as Igraduated from college, which I
did.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Luckily I did.
Did you apply to any schools inNew York or it was understood
you were staying in Kansas?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
No, no, I had only applied to a couple of schools
it was so different back thenand I applied to University of
Kansas.
It was a beautiful campus andvery close to home and really
easy.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
It was, you know, three hour drive from home.
So, oh, so you drove to collegeand said I and here you go, and
that's it, and drove to yourdorm by yourself, and that was
it.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Exactly, Exactly.
And Katie, once we graduated,we had planned on going to
Europe together.
And I said, Katie, I've gottwenty five hundred dollars
saved and I can either move toNew York with that money or go
to Europe with you.
And so she went to Europe.
I moved to New York.
Did you live with your sister?
I did for a couple of monthsand then I got my own apartment
and Katie came back from Europe,you know hysterical, at JFK

(04:57):
airport, saying she had $5 leftand she didn't know if I was
going to get home.
But I said, just cut.
I waited for her on the stoop.
I was like get in a taxi, comehere and move in with me.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
On TV cab.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Right, right, exactly .
She moved in with me, and thenyou know the rest.
We both got jobs in fashion andin marketing for various
fashion companies.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Katie got a job at Mademoiselle as an assistant,
and you know we kept hard jobsto get, though like I know
you've told the story stories somany times.
But like to get into the nittygritty, like getting a job in
fashion is not easy.
It is like everything you'vedone has not been easy and you
know, I know it's been many,many years since.

(05:39):
But like you show up fromKansas in New York hire me in a
fashion magazine, like that doesnot just happen.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Like a friend of my cousins who worked at Elle
magazine, which is I was justdying.
I would have loved to workthere.
She had said to me you know,try to go to this one temporary
agency called Career Blazers,because Condé Nast uses them for
everybody.
So that's what I did and I gotsent everywhere.
Great great opportunities, bythe way, uses them for everybody

(06:08):
.
So that's what I did and I gotsent everywhere.
Great great opportunities, bythe way.
At MasterCard, visa, in theirmarketing department, at just a
lot of different cool companies,but not to a fashion magazine,
of course.
Katie, the day she gets back,got a job like that, madame
Azelle, on her first day and gotthe job.
You know what we both wanted towork.
So I was happy for her that shegot that job.

(06:28):
And on top of that, you know myfirst job, I was making more
money than she was.
That was.
It was helpful to both of us.
She had the fashion connectionand eventually I started working
at different fashion companiesin marketing, just because I'd
had other marketing jobs before.
Because it takes time to getthere.
I don't know if temp agenciesstill are viable anymore, you

(06:49):
have me.
But I know they still exist.
But I just I don't know ifthat's the entree in or Right.
It's difficult.
You kind of have to know people.
We at Frances Valentine do alot of college tours, so if a
fashion group is coming to NewYork, we'll host anywhere from
10 to 40 students up here andeverybody in the whole company

(07:10):
stands up in front of that groupand tells them where they went
to college and what they do atour company.
That's spectacular, and I neverhad that opportunity.
I never knew about all of thedifferent jobs that were
available in the fashionbusiness.
There are a lot of them andthere are different skills for
each and just.
You know a natural inclinationto be able to be good at

(07:30):
something, and so we really tryand mentor as many people as we
can every single year with thegroups that come to visit us.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
So I'm just like like I feel like you know, I listen
to other podcasts and I hear thehost like, ah, you know,
they're like jumping out oftheir skin.
So in my book I quote how, andthe wild thing about the Kate
Spade brand is and this is muchlike what happened with Rebecca
Minkoff, because there are veryfew designers that had a ripple

(08:02):
effect amongst the sample makingindustry in New York when I
started my handbag line clearlynot as prolific the one hook was
that every manufacturer andevery sample maker said we were
Kate Spades, we did this forKate Spades.
Every single one said that Ican't, I joke you not.
Yeah, we did this sample and Iwas like, oh yeah, which

(08:24):
silhouette?
What color?
Uh-huh, was it the one?
Because the one without thezipper, that one was the first
one.
So which one was it?
Let's talk.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Well, strangely enough, when we started in New
York, we had one manufacturerhere right in New York and we
moved into the same buildingwhere he was on West 29th Street
.
I knew who that was he'sretired now, but what a lovely
man.
So he couldn't handle all ofour work, so we had to find

(08:53):
other ones and in the end we hadabout five different
manufacturers in New York, bothin Manhattan and the Bronx and
Brooklyn, and I just remembertaking the subway out to go
check on production and pick upbags.
Lucky you it was.
You know it was a differenttime.
It was like New York wasgrittier and a little scarier.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yep, and a Garmento offspring.
So my father was a converter.
So I grew up like you know,grew up we'd take the, we'd
drive to Port Authority and thenwalk all the way to the Garmin
Center and my mom would get mydad coffee and then he would
walk ahead because he was a fastwalker and we'd see the drums
and fabric and understandingwhat gray goods were.

(09:33):
That gray is spelledG-R-I-E-G-E.
You know the whole thing.
And then, yeah, and it's funny,I'd never heard so much
profanity until I'd walked intotheir office and I was like, oh,
he curses, he curses a lot.
I did not know that.
So who knew?
But the one thing I learned wasbecause and this is one of the
things I practice, what I preachso many designers and I think

(09:56):
the reason why so many people gointo handbags is that there are
the least barriers to entry interms of any classification
within fashion, right, apparel,it's very different because at
the end of the day, it is a bagand you can teach yourself or
learn at least the rudimentarybasics and doing your bags out
of construction paper, which wasin the papers in all her

(10:18):
stories.
So that's what I did and I havethat in my book and saying like
, if you don't know how, get thenicest construction paper, get
some oak tag backing.
Get like, do it the basics,because that's what was done
with Kate Spade.
Were you part of that wholenarrative of like on your hands
and he's cutting outconstruction paper Because this
is, this is the, this is themeat that I don't think anybody

(10:38):
knows.
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
So we all kind of did everything together.
When we first decided to starta business and I have to give
credit where credit's due it wasAndy Spade's idea, katie's
husband.
They weren't married at thetime and Katie and I had always
wanted to have a businesstogether.
When we were in college, wejust didn't have any idea what
it would be.
And so, after many years ofworking in New York probably
about eight where we were bothworking, we were close to 30.

(11:04):
At this point, right, right,andy, andy and Katie approached
me and said we know whatbusiness you guys are going to
have and it's handbags.
And it's because Katie had, asan accessories editor, had
realized there was a real voidin the market and there were no
chic, simple American designbags.
And I knew it was going to be ahit right off the bat.

(11:24):
So I quit my job, startedimmediately, immediately quit
your job.
I quit my job.
It was, this was 93, 1993.
Yep, and was that?

Speaker 2 (11:33):
terrifying, were you like oh screw it.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
You know, I was young , I had no other
responsibilities, no children,no pet.
No, I had no anythingresponsible for except my
student loan payments, and bythat time I had amassed some
money in a 401k and I thoughtthat's how I'll pay my rent and
eat for the next year.
You used your 401k.
I did, I did.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
What did your parents say about that?
Or you did not tell them thatpart.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
You know, I didn't even ask.
You know, I was the last offour, so they were like whatever
, I'm more worried about me than, I think, my other sisters, but
you know, of course, parentsare always nervous.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I'm sure they just didn't tell me at the time.
Wow, so she kept her day job,correct?
No, she had left her job.
So he was the only one who wasstill working?

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Andy was working.
Yes, Andy was still working.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
And how did Pamela Bell fall into all that?

Speaker 1 (12:29):
So what's funny is we met Pamela in the summer the
summer before, and we showed hersome of the bags.
She loved them and she said OK,I will.
Pamela had owned her own hairaccessories business and sold it
a couple of years before andmade a fortune in that age money
to me.
But she knew all aboutproduction and she knew how to

(12:51):
get things done.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
So and that was but what did you think about her?
Did you and Katie?
Were you and Katie like atcoffee?
Like what do you think?
Cause?
Like that's a lot of people andhonestly you know people don't
realize when you take on apartnership, you spend more time
with them than you will withyour family, your real partners,
anybody.
So to take some rando in, likeokay, so she did, well, all
right, what do you think?

(13:12):
Like the two of you or thethree of you have a sit down
like should we let her in?
Should we get what was thethought?
Because to take that new personin is a big deal.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
I think we all felt that we needed the skill sets of
all of us, and Andy had to keephis job, so he was in charge of
all the branding and marketing.
I mean, we couldn't afford topay for it then, but the whole
tone of the brand Andy worked onand he didn't have to be there
in order to do that.
So it was the three of us andPamela had all this production

(13:41):
experience and really knew howto get things done, knew how to
buy materials and all of thosethings.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Were the two of you like.
Oh, ok, sure.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
We were excited about the ideaand you know, pamela, that's a
missing link.
Yeah, it was great because Icould do all the sales and
marketing, pamela could do allthe production and Katie worked
on the design.
So it really I mean we allhonest to God for the first

(14:10):
three years, we all dideverything.
We were all steaming and packingboxes together, Right.
But you know, in the end we allkind of moved into our own
areas and oversaw those areas,Right.
But you know, Pamela and I thefirst year and a half got in a
lot of beefs together.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
That, see, and then so was Katie, like the middleman
, like okay, I see where she'scoming from.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
For sure, because Pamela and I, we both see what
we needed, what needed to getdone, but we disagree on how to
get it done.
And you know, in the end she'sa fantastic businesswoman and I
loved working with her and we'restill very, very good friends
today.
But you need to have thoseearly, early squabbles and
discussions because you'll havethe same page in the end.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
So now and then.
I know the story of thatfateful trade show.
I think it may have beenAccessory Circuit, where the
label went from inside tooutside.
So the Accessory Circuit usedto, and they've since folded it
three different times.
It's now once again part ofcoterie To get into accessory

(15:12):
circuit.
Back in the day was so like arewe going to make it?
Are we going to make it?
Are we going to make it?
Get that okay?
I mean, when I first got in, Ihad eight samples.
I didn't, I wasn't even ready,but I was like screw this, I got
in, I'm going to do it, I don'tgive a crap.
Was that like OK, yeah, wefinally have the samples.
They're finally what we thinkthey're going to be.

(15:34):
How did you come to theconclusion?
And were the labels even, likeyou know, camera ready per se?

Speaker 1 (15:41):
It was the night before the show and the whole
idea was to use men's shirtinglabels for the outside of the
bag, which is how the originallabel looked, and it was the
same material as a men'sshirting label with the tacking
on the four corners.
And the night before we'resteaming all the bags and
getting ready to go, we were atBikini's apartment and she just

(16:01):
said it needs something elsebecause our bags were very
simple.
We had no hardware.
It was just that wasn't ourthing.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
And it wasn't leather .

Speaker 1 (16:16):
She said it needs somewhere for the eye to go.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Well, it wasn't leather, because we couldn't
afford leather at the time,honestly.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
But what were they?
Just what they were?
Oh, they were nylon bags thatyou know, the the ones that that
you're talking about, where wereally because there was no
grain to you know no patternwhat he was looking at she said
it needs somewhere for the eyeto go and she pulled one of the
labels and she put it on theoutside, you know, half an inch
underneath the seam, and westarted sewing and we had to sew

(16:40):
all the labels on that nightand I swear our fingers were
bleeding, but it was just.
You know, it was one of those.
Did you hand sew or use amachine?
Oh, yes, we hand sewed.
We didn't have a machine at herapartment.
All of the samples have beendone, you know, by a
manufacturer, by a sample maker.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
So, yes, we did it by hand.
Were you guys critical of eachother like that sloppy stitching
?
Because I know how I'd be andmy attention to detail isn't as
good as other people being likedo it again.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yes, and some of them we had to glue on just because
we couldn't get through thematerial and the lining, and you
know some, we had backing inbetween too to give the bag
shape, so we couldn't.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Do you think that was your unique selling point?
That was your USP?
I do, I do.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
I think it was a stroke of brilliance that really
turned these handbags into abrand and we got to the show.
We were in the worst place, wayin the back by the bathroom.
By the hot dog stand, yeah,next to the hot dog stand In the
back of the Javits.
And I know exactly.
And Katie was so upset I justremember trying to talk her Talk

(17:48):
to Ledge.
Yes, she just kept saying we'regoing to do any business here.
So we're doing the show andseveral stores walk by and you
know, give us, you know greatmarks, et cetera, took a line
sheet and then Katie said I'mgoing to walk around, I have a
lot of friends.
She knew a lot of people therebecause she'd been an editor and
she'd always attended thoseshows.
So she walked away and went tomeet with a couple of people she

(18:09):
knew and just then Barney'swalks out and they're and I'm
looking and I'm like who arethese well-dressed people?
Wow, and they loved the bagsand they took notes and I said
hello, got their card, the wholething, and the second they
walked away.
Katie walked back up and I saidBarney's just walked up and
she's like no way, of course,the one time I leave.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
during this whole show Did she go chase them down?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
No, they were gone by then and they could be elusive
at those shows, as you know.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
That's when the badges had colors that you know
that buyers were one color,press were other.
Right, Miss Elaine?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they movedthrough those shows really fast.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, I remember that .
And then so cut to.
A few hours later she sees afriend down at the end of the
you know show and she said I'mjust going to go say hi, I'll be
right back.
Sharivari walks up and, forlisteners who don't know,
sharivari was the coolest smallgroup of specialty stores in New
York.
I think they had three or fivestores at that time and they

(19:07):
were just so chic.
And Sharivari walks up and saidoh, absolutely, we can put
these in all stores.
We love them.
Got their card, they took aline sheet.
Katie walked back up after theyleft and she was like I guess
I'm the lucky I just have toleave.
Just leave Right, go away.
So we, you know, we left theshow.
We finished with the show and Ilook over to her in the cab.

(19:28):
I'm all smiling and I see thisworried look on her face and I
said what's wrong?
And she said I don't even knowif we got enough orders to pay
for the show.
And I said but this is how youstart, like, this is the
beginning.
And of course, everythingworked out great.
Orders started to flood in andwe moved offices and got a new

(19:48):
space and things really startedto happen after that.
Things really started to happenafter that.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Can I ask you a question now?
Sure, okay, so there's four ofyou at this point.
Right, there's Katie, andy,pamela and you.
Out of curiosity, how were youable to and this is so trite of
a question handling your namenot being part of it, because
that is a difficult pill toswallow, or were you?

Speaker 1 (20:15):
like I don't care.
Well, you know, katie hadalways said it's the four of us.
Kate Spade is the four of usbecause she wasn't Kate Spade
and Andy was Kate Spade.
It was his last name and itjust.
It was so catchy.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
It is catchy.
I mean obviously catchy.
And honestly, you know it wasthere.
Did you balance other names?

Speaker 1 (20:36):
No, there was an original name called Alex Noel
and that was Katie and our otherfriend, also named Pamela.
When I was out of town and Isaid you have to find another
partner, I can't do this yet.
And I moved back six monthslater and then did it with them,
but the name started as AlexNoel and then we changed it to
Kate Spade.
But it was really Andy'sbrainchild and using their names

(21:02):
did not bother me at allbecause it sounded so good.
And Katie said I will never beKate Spade, it's the four of us
Cut to.
You know, we win the CFDA awardand she wins it for best new
accessories designer.
She became Kate Spade and,whether you liked it or not, I
mean she was the most shy personin the world, the funniest but

(21:22):
most shy and private person.
So for her, that was somethingI don't know if she was prepared
for or not, but she handled itreally beautifully, yeah, and
learned how to speak in front ofpeople and get better as she
moved on.
I don't know if she ever gotmore comfortable with it, but
she got much better at it andshe was, you know, so good at

(21:44):
the social part of it, right, sofriendly, and she becomes
everyone's best friend, yep, andyou really feel that about her.
You really do.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
She was really short too.
She was tiny, wasn't she?

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I used to call her the bird because she was
really, but she was tiny butmighty.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, big presence.
You see her and then you'relike, oh my God.
I remember I saw her at anevent and I was waiting to talk
to her and then I was trying tobe polite and then she left and
I was was like, oh damn, theregoes my window Same day.
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(22:25):
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start or begin, or if you had abrand and need some strategic
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So let's get started and you'llbe the creator of the next it

(23:28):
Bag.
Join me, emily Blumenthal, inthe Handbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
So be sure to sign up atemilyblumenthalcom slash
masterclass and type in the codePODCAST to get 10% off your
masterclass today.
And the two of them, I remember.

(23:51):
They're both really short and Isaid that's wild because you
just assume the aura of who sheis and her presence.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
You know what's funny ?
I never have thought of them asshort and they've been my two
best friends for, you know myGod, because we're 18 years old,
because of their personalities.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, exactly so the brand.
You know the four of you, whichis so interesting that,
organically, each person tookits own role within recognizing
you know what are the four P'sof the company, and it was like
each one of you captured a Pright.
How were you able to?

(24:28):
You know matrix and all thisstuff?
People didn't do that back then.
There wasn't any matrix toanalyze, at least at the way
that they have now.
How are you able to recognizeand take into consideration the
needs and the wants of what yourcustomer was and evolve the
product?
Like, how were the four of youlike okay, she needs a slip

(24:50):
pocket, she needs a zipper.
How were you guys able to likegrow the brand?
Because at first it all startswith one cool, really cool bag.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right, Well, I think it's because we were consumers
ourselves of exactly thoseproducts and we knew what we
wanted.
And when you carry those thingsevery single day, you know
what's missing.
A zipper pocket inside ismissing.
Or, if you want to make thefirst baby bag, pamela was
having children before the restof us.
She knew exactly what shouldhave been in a baby bag.

(25:20):
So I think us being theultimate consumers of those
products, made all thedifference in the world.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
And it's such a downside to so many brands is
that they don't.
I always say you have to takeyour bag for a test drive, not
just once, not just twice, butyou need to keep wearing it.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Right, and we do that at Francis Valentine.
He wear tests every singlething and, you know, try and get
everything corrected before wego to production with it, just
because it's important, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
You got to do it.
Names on it?
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Forever, oh that.
So I also think Andy had thevantage point of not being there
every day and being able to seethings from the outside.
So you know, we were luckyenough to have all perspectives
that really mattered.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Was it weird to handle fast growth Like how did
you because that's again, that'sthe biggest best blessing curse
all packaged into one Like shit.
What do we do?
What do we do now?

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Right, I guess you could say it's weird.
We were just running constantly.
The business was our lives 24-7.
We were there till 1030 atnight and I was back there at
730 in the morning and it wasour first child and all we did
was that and I loved it.
It was great, you know.
And all we did was that and Iloved it.
It was great, you know.

(26:36):
It was kind of a dream cometrue.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
And then you were only bags.
And then what made you guysrealize?
All right, this is a lifestylebrand, this isn't just a handbag
brand.
What was that turning pointmoment?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, you know, I think part of it was just sort
of how we live and stationerywas one of those things that was
.
Stationery was the first thingthat came to us Right, we all
write personal notes and we hada lot of companies saying this
would be a natural progressionfor you to go into stationery.
And we were friendly with thefolks who we eventually signed

(27:11):
with and because we each used towrite a lot of personal notes,
it seemed like a really natural,easy thing to do.
So stationery and then shoesWas that your first license.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
The stationery was the first license.
Yes, was that a big deal tohand over your name to somebody?

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yes, well, you have total control over all the
creative and the paper stock,like every single little detail
you have to approve before itgets produced and every account
that's opened, everything.
So it's.
It is a lot more work but youknow, in the end licensing is
such a great thing because ifyou find the right partners who

(27:53):
want to uphold, you know, thesame aesthetic and quality, it
can be a huge business for you,which is great.
And we had really greatpartners with Schwartz and
Benjamin for shoes all thoseyears.
And then we moved into a lot ofother categories fragrance and
beauty, tabletop bedding.
There were a lot of licensedproducts, which was really fun.

(28:14):
There were a lot of licensedproducts, which was really fun.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
But you know, by this point it's the four of you plus
Plus.
You have now new people, youhave to hire, you have to fire,
you've got new overhead, you'vegot, you know, offices that now
need to look the part and theexpenses are growing and growing
.
And was it hard for the four ofyou to start relinquishing
control?
Because that's it.
That's a downside of a lot ofbrands when they grow so quickly

(28:38):
, is that?
You know, the plus is that theywant their hand in everything,
but the minus is that they needtheir hand in everything Right,
so it's like that's a gentlebalance.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I don't know if we ever did relinquish control,
because we all were overseeingour various areas and as we
hired more people, all the folksthat had started with us would
move up with us and they wouldhave, because they knew exactly
what to do.
They could oversee certainareas without anyone watching

(29:09):
over them or telling them whatto do.
So it grew very organically andnaturally.
I would interview everyone whocame through the company,
because one of our philosophieswas we wanted to hire they had
to be talented, of course, butreally polite, gracious people,
and it's a philosophy that we'veeven carried forward at Francis

(29:31):
Valentine.
And it's because you're goingto work every day.
You're working there at leasteight hours a day, all day, all
week, and you want to be withnice people Do you ever.
Yes, and it really matters, andso that was one of our mantras.
So it's why I personallyinterviewed everybody who was
hired at the company.
You know, once we startedopening retail stores, that

(29:54):
became more difficult, and Zoomwas terrifying.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Like was that scary?
Like okay, we have our firststore.
I remember the store, Iremember the store opening.
Was it the four of you you knowthe night before?
Oh gosh, no, we were so excited.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
We loved it.
It was amazing.
It was the first time we couldshowcase our products the way we
wanted it done, Because backthen it was really just
wholesale.
E-commerce wasn't a thing andit was either wholesale or open
your own retail store.
So we were really excited toopen.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
So the brand's growing.
It's still the four of you, youknow.
You get to a point.
What was the moment where youguys said, all right, we're
hitting a wall.
I think we've done everythingwe can do, you know, because it
was sold once, or percentage ofthe company was sold once, that
I remembered thinking like whywould they want to do that if

(30:49):
it's something that is so ours,Like it's us?
Why did that all come to pass?

Speaker 1 (30:55):
So that was in 1999.
We had a lot of bankers andstrategic fashion companies
really interested in buying thecompany, like they would just
come out of the woodwork andapproach us, and the more we
started talking about it wethought wouldn't it be great to
partner with somebody who's donethis before to really help us

(31:16):
grow and we can take our namesoff of the leases?
We can really be able to focuson the business instead of
financing Sleep a little better.
Right, right, exactly, and, youknow, Sleep a little better.
Right, right, exactly.
So Neiman Marcus came up inthat discussion and they were
interested in putting together asmall group of companies that

(31:39):
they would invest in and grow,you know, within the Neiman
Marcus group.
So that was really interestingto us because they were really,
you know, one of the bestdepartment stores in the world
and they were a good partner tous on the wholesale side.
So we met with them it was theSmith family in Boston.
We really liked them andthought this is the right

(32:01):
partner for us and at that pointthey bought 56% of the business
.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Was that scary?

Speaker 1 (32:06):
It's funny, harvard even did a case study on Kate
Spade at that time.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
I have that case study.
Actually I can send it to you.
I have it down there.
I've got one.
It's in my studio.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Thank you, Might as well copy on it, no they flew us
up to Boston to present to allthe students.
It was really fun, it wasfascinating, wow, really great
thing to do.
But in any case, the wholequestion was why would you do
this?
And I feel like we were at atime in our lives you know it

(32:35):
was we were all starting to havekids Seven years later, more or
less after you started.
Right, right, and you know itwas.
We felt like it was the rightpartner and a really good
opportunity, and so cut to.
Seven years later we sold thebalance of it to Neiman Marcus,
so it was about 13 years that wehad the business, but it's not

(32:58):
that long in the grand scheme ofcompanies?
It's not, but when we got tothat age, it kind of felt like a
long time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all stillloved it, but we were all having
children and there were someother things in our lives that
were becoming as important asthe business, or more important,
and I had just had my thirdchild the day we closed, on the
day of Marcus, and Katie had hadBea a few months before.

(33:19):
So it just felt like this isgreat, this is time.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
And you were in the hospital and it closed.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
No, I wasn't.
I had the baby on.
I don't know.
We were negotiating the dealpoints on Thursday.
I had the baby on Friday and weclosed.
I was back at the office onMonday, I think.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
That tracks.
But isn't that crazy.
It's your third one.
It's okay, trust me, I get it.
You were like bringing her in,like whatever, just to get out
the baby.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, it's your third one, so it's just different
than having the first.
Oh yeah, it's your third one,so it's just different than
having the first.
Oh yeah, but you know, it feltlike the time was right in all
of our lives to do it.
Andy was starting his newbranding company, partners, in
Spade.
Pamela had some things that shewanted to do differently and
you know, katie and I were just,we were sort of like thrilled

(34:07):
to not have to work, be able tobe moms, right so and that only
lasted, I guess, about seven oreight years, and then we started
Francis Valentine.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Did you guys have a non-compete when you left we?

Speaker 1 (34:18):
did, we did.
It was two years, but it wentby so fast.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Was that one of those things that you guys were like
I don't give a crap.
Like you take that non-compete,I'm fine, Like I need a break.
I don't want to do this.
Yeah, crap, Like you take thatnon-compete.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
I'm fine.
Like I need a break.
I don't want to do this.
We were.
We were totally fine and itfelt reasonable.
You know, I think it's it's arather short period for a
company, especially when one ofthem is the namesake, but that's
what we all agreed to.
I'll tell you after we sold, inDecember of 2006, and we had
agreed to work for another sixmonths, so we worked until June,
that of 2007.
And we had a great summer.

(34:54):
It was so fun.
All of our families gottogether.
We had a blast that I got backin September.
I was dropping my kids off atschool.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
You were like now.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I walked out of the school and I was like, oh my God
, I don't have a place to go, Idon't have an office to go to,
no one's waiting for me, nothing.
And my identity was so wrappedup in owning a business that I
didn't know what to do withmyself.
And it was a little bit.
I got a little bit blue for acouple of months and I remember

(35:22):
putting on my headphones anddoing a walk run from, you know,
greenwich Village up to theUpper East Side where Katie
lived, and we'd go walk the parkevery day and hang out and talk
.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Because you didn't know what else to do.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
I didn't know what else to do.
Finally, I started filling mydays with.
I took cooking classes, I tooktennis lessons, and then, of
course, you get involved in yourkids' schools and then you just
get pulled in to do all sortsof things.
So I got really involved in mychildren's school, both as PA
president and board chair andraising money, which was great.
That was a whole different kindof experience and I learned so

(35:57):
much doing all of those thingsand I'm grateful to have had
that time to do it.
That's golden times, it is.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Get that time back.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Right, exactly, and I got to spend time at the school
with my kids too, so that wasreally great.
But, you know, we started toget an itch to get back into the
business and we you know, katieand I both missed creating
things and making things, and soI guess it was in 2013,.
We were out to dinnercelebrating Pamela's birthday, I
think and we started talkingabout a business again.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Was Pamela.
Like I'm good girls, I'm goodyou do Well.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Pamela had started her own company called Prink
Shop and she was debating doingthis with us and just said you
know, I'm so busy with my ownbusiness I, you know I'll let
you guys do it.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
So we started with handbags and shoes and we Did
you feel like you had to ask herpermission per se.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
No, it wasn't permission, but we enjoyed we
all enjoyed working together.
So you know, ultimately it washer choice.
I don't think we would havestarted something without any of
the four of us being askedRight.
So we started it and in 2014,and Andy Spade was he said if
you don't get an office space,if you don't rent an office
space, it's just going to kindof keep going along.

(37:13):
Katie's never going to do it,but once she knows we have an
office space and we're coming,she'll show up.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
When there's overhead , she'll show up.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
That's right.
So he was absolutely right.
So we got an office space in2014, started working on all the
designs and we ended uplaunching our first collection
to the public in 2016, in springof 2016.
And that was handbags and shoes.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
How did you and I know this, you've been asked
this question so many times liketalking about your customer,
consumers, was it okay?
Kate Spade has grown up.
This is what she wants.
Now Does she have the same?
You know, kate Spade andFrances Valentine are 100% not

(37:56):
the same brand.
I can say that with mydiscerning eye.
But, coming from a namesakebrand, how were you able?
And was there any trepidationLike what, the how it would be
received, like how did you dealwith all that?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Well, you know, obviously we couldn't use
Katie's name because we had sold, had sold the name which should
use your name this time well,we actually picked two names
that we both loved and theyhappen to have been katie's
family names one from hermother's side, one from her
father's side and put themtogether and that's how francis
valentine came about.
Thought, let's create thiswoman who's your best friend,

(38:33):
who makes you laugh harder thananybody else, your favorite aunt
with the best style.
And that's who FrancesValentine is.
And it was born out offriendship and at first I felt
like, oh my gosh, it's amouthful, but I was so used to
saying Kate Spade, which rolledoff the tongue so easily, but
it's really seemed to resonatewith people and I love the name.

(38:54):
I feel like we've evolved fromthe old days.
I mean, think about it, we were30 years old when we started
Kate Spade.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
That is insane.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
And when we started Francis Valentine, we were 50.
And we're different people, wewant different things, you know.
We want different thingsthrough the brand, and so the
word we've always used is iswe've evolved.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
You could say we've grown up.
Did you have a question likewith the press saying, okay, if
Francis Valentine is your bestfriend, then who was Kate Spade?
You know, is Kate Spade likethe little sister that went off
and did her own thing, like howwere you able?
You know, kate Spade, you know,is Kate Spade like the little
sister that went off and did herown thing, like how were you
able?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
You know Kate Spade.
To us when we started it wasthe big sister and Jack Spade
was a little brother.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Right.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
So you know, I think the folks that ended up owning
Kate Spade have done an amazingjob.
It's obviously a giganticcorporation.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's a great team now .

Speaker 1 (39:48):
And they've done a great job growing it.
It's a great team now andthey've done a great job growing
it.
You know, I think we are reallygood at starting brands and
nurturing them and making theminteresting and providing great
quality.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
And value.
I think part of the formula forwhat we do is really fantastic
design, really great quality,and they're personal pieces.
They feel personal to you.
Everything we do we try to adda little bit of something Like
even on our knit sweaters wehave this little XO, and it's
because that's how Katie and Ihad always ended letters XO

(40:23):
Elise, xo Katie.
And so the XO is part of ourbranding and we try to add it
and I'll tell you if it's not onthere, customers seem to get
upset.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
They're like where's the XO?
I want it and that's a gooddefining point, that's a good
USP.
Were the first bags withFrances Valentine in leather.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yes, Well, we did both.
We did fabric and leather.
You know, fabric's always beenone of those things that we love
to use With prints, yeah yeah.
And just you know beautifulvelvets and you can get these
great jewel tone colors thatdon't, that, aren't, as you know
, deep as just a flat color, thevelvets and corduroys and like

(41:02):
all.
There's some really greatmaterials out there to use
handbags and I love fabric andcolor and prints and leather too
fabric and color and prints andleather too.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I mean, I was just at your sample sale and I just
wanted to sit there and juststay and like.
There's definitely a point ofview that I think you and she
have very successfully capturedin terms of people who want to
stand out, but not in anobnoxious way, not in a look at
me, it's.
I'm tastefully.
Here's my party print.

(41:35):
I am a fun person and I thinkyou've had so much history in
understanding your customer thatthis is such an organic
progression of what you've doneand I don't want to talk about
this too much because obviouslythis is super personal.
But was it difficult for you tomove on with the brand after
Like?

(41:55):
Were you at any moment like God, I can't do this without her
Because everything you've doneis what we go through in life?
You know love, loss, move onand who she was and who she is
and the mark she's made.
You know this is the crap thatwe all deal with.
This is life.
It's good, bad and the ugly.

(42:15):
So how did you handle this nextstep of like?
What am I supposed to do withthe brand that I was always half
of?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Well, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
If you don't mind me asking, I just Not at all, of
course, I miss her every day,every day.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
You know, we were sort of at a crossroads because
I kind of like, how can we go onwithout her?
And yet I felt I had aresponsibility to her family, to
the employees of the company,and we all agreed that we were
going to move forward and Ithink, you know Katie would want
that.
It wasn't, you know, her notbeing there wasn't about Francis

(42:53):
Valentine, and so one of thethings that we did it was just,
it was one of those things thatjust happened.
You know, katie and I had bothbeen huge vintage shoppers
growing up and we continue to betoday.
I continue to be today.
But two of the pieces that wereher favorites, one was a caftan
she wore on every vacation wetook and the other was an

(43:14):
embroidered sweater found, youknow, 30 years ago in a vintage
shop.
And we remade those two items,even though we weren't apparel
folks.
We remade those two items as atribute to her and they sold out
immediately and we reorderedthem and they sold out again and
again and again and again.
And people started asking usfor all of the things that we
styled in our campaigns, whichwere all my vintage pieces and

(43:38):
Katie's vintage pieces.
So you know, we started makingdifferent items and they
continued to sell out and Ithink people loved the nostalgia
and they were sort of vintagepieces, but they were made
modern.
They were made modern with, youknow, zippers and pockets and

(44:00):
you know some elastic in thewaistband and the special things
that make you want to pullsomething out of your closet and
wear it because it's the mostcomfortable thing in there.
And yet it provides confidenceto women to have their own
individual style.
It's the you don't want thelook at me, look at me thing,
but for women to be able to puttheir own style together, have

(44:21):
it be one of our pieces,combined with other things that
they own.
I love that.
I love that she's combining allthose pieces together to make
it her own.
I love that she's combining allthose pieces together to make
it her own Right, and it makesher happy.
And I'll tell you, the vintagepieces that we had collected all
those years ago sort of becamethe fresh start for the company
after she was gone and apparelis a huge part of our business

(44:44):
now.
You know I was saying, oh,we'll never make pants.
Well, now we make pants.
We'll never make sweaters.
Now we make pants, we'll nevermake sweaters, and now we make
sweaters.
So all of the productcategories really contribute to
the whole brand, which is great.
So we have apparel and handbagsand shoes and jewelry, and then
we do a lot of gift items andsoft goods as well.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Was the first license you did, or this brand isn't
licensed yet?

Speaker 1 (45:13):
We just signed the first license and it'll be a big
surprise for next year.
We actually did a home licensewith Annie Selke last year,
which was great for bedding,which was fun.
I love what they did.
They took our embroideries andreally went to town, Really
really beautiful.
We're doing another one withthem this summer and then we've
got another license that will belaunching next fall.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Is it stationary?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
No, I just.
It's not out of the question.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
But it's almost like, based on what you said, that
the attraction happens whenshe's gone.
So it's almost, like you know,like going back to that trade
show moment where the attentioncame right when she walked away.
I feel like this is her way,and some twisted way of giving
back to the brand that, as soonas she left, people were more
eyes were on you as a result oftrying to find more of her Right

(46:02):
, right and you know she's stillhere, she's still with us every
day.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I feel that in all the work we do here.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Is it interesting now that because I know some of the
people have been with you sinceshe was there and now obviously
you've employees who've nevereven known who she was how do
you educate them in terms of bythe way, she's still half the
brand in terms of DNA Right?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
You know I think they get it the second they start
working here and we go through awhole process of them spending
time with everybody in the wholecompany.
And you know we have severalfolks who work with us at Kate
Spade who started with us herewhen we started this.
There's a lot of DNA you knowfrom our previous work together

(46:47):
and you know it's Francis.
Valentine is sort of she's onher own.
She's not me, she's not Katie,she's that, she's she is.
You know, I don't know she'skind of up here.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Have you recognized now that this is not a baby and
this is a brand in a business?
Have you been able to separatethat?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yes, yes, I still treat it like a baby, but yes, I
know, I know, elise.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
This has been absolutely fantastic.
I am so very grateful for yourtime and contribution to
Handbags, the industry and, mostof all, to Handbag Designer 101
, the podcast.
You've been an absolute gem,much like the ones you put on
your clothes and bags.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, emily, it was lovelyto be here.
Okay, have a great day.
Thank you, bye, bye.

(47:34):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.