Join Elyse Winer of Gen Phoenix as she reveals the groundbreaking technology turning discarded leather waste into high-performance recycled materials used by Coach, Dr. Martens, and more. 🌍👜
Since 2007, Gen Phoenix has diverted over 10,000 tons of leather from landfills using a patented process that creates sustainable leather with 80% less carbon—without sacrificing durability, feel, or style. 💥💼
💡 Key Takeaways:
🔹 Beyond the Green Premium: Why performance and price—not just sustainability—are key to changing the industry.
🔹 Next-Gen Materials: How GenPhoenix is reshaping what “luxury” means to younger, eco-conscious consumers.
🔹 Fashion Meets Circularity: Discover their bold mission to create fully recyclable leather with endless product life.
Whether you're a designer seeking sustainable solutions or a brand looking to stay ahead of consumer values, this episode is your essential guide to the future of fashion innovation. 🎧
🎧 Listen now! #HandbagDesigner101 #SustainableFashion #RecycledLeather #LuxuryReimagined #FashionInnovation #CircularDesign
Our Guest: Elyse Winer is the Head of Brand at GenPhoenix, the revolutionary material tech company transforming leather waste into a scalable, sustainable alternative embraced by some of fashion’s biggest names.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.
Buy Emily’s Books: “Handbag Designer 101” & “Savvy Suzanna’s Amazing Adventures in Handbags”
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
these younger generations that you referenced
celebrated different materials,different things.
Like, rather than try topretend it's leather, luxury can
be more than one thing.
Let's celebrate that it'sdifferent.
Like does it have to perform aswell as leather?
Hell yeah, but can it bedifferent than leather?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast, with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(00:42):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Elise Weiner of JenPhoenix to Handbag Designer 101,
the podcast.
Welcome, we're so excited tohave you, so excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
(01:02):
Yeah, this is a lucky overlapbecause I get pitched so often
from people industry people andwhen I was looking what Jen
Phoenix did and I said, oh myGod, this is a fortuitous email
that came through my inboxbecause I said this is something
so many more people need toknow about.
Do you want to just go straightinto what Jen Phoenix is and
then we can back into how itworks and so forth, Because it's
(01:23):
so cool?
Do you want to just go straightinto what GenPhoenix is and
then we can back into how itworks and so forth, Because it's
so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Thank you, yeah.
So GenPhoenix is a UK-basedsustainable materials
manufacturer and the company hasbeen around since 2007.
And they take leather wastethat's bound for landfill at the
tanning stage.
So when leather hides aretanned they actually take on
this blue color called wet blueand because of irregularities in
(01:54):
the hide or kind of the endapplication needs for that hide,
a good portion of the hideactually traditionally goes to
landfill because it can't beused for the end application.
Hide actually traditionallygoes to landfill because it
can't be used for the endapplication.
We at GenPhoenix rescue thatleather waste and we've rescued
over 10,000 tons of wet blueleather waste since the
company's origination.
(02:15):
And what we do is through apatented technology process we
break that waste down to thefiber level and then use the
power of super high pressuredwater to re-entangle those
fibers back together, resultingin almost like a recycled
leather hide that can then befinished and processed and used
for applications like masstransportation, seating, but in
(02:39):
our discussion today really afocus on consumer leather goods
handbags, accessories andfootwear.
And because the company has beenaround for so long, they've
created an incrediblestate-of-the-art manufacturing
facility that has the capacityto manufacture 6 million square
meters of this recycled materialto really meet the needs of
(03:01):
some really large brand partnersthat we brought on in that
consumer category in the pastcouple of years, which include
Coach Doc Martens as well asinvestment from the parent
company of Coach Tapestry DocMartens themselves and then
Jaguar Land Rover's investmentarm in Motion Ventures in motion
(03:26):
ventures.
So we're expanding into thesekind of consumer and automotive
categories after having been forclose to 15 years supplying
recycled leather material to theaviation and mass
transportation seating space.
So very exciting time in thecompany and just a really cool
material that today uses thatkind of wet blue leather waste.
But what we're working on rightnow is actually taking finished
(03:48):
leather waste, either at thefactory floor level or at the
end of a product's life cycle,back through the exact same
process to create fully circularrecycled leather material which
is truly like the holy grail asit relates to circularity in
the kind of sustainablematerials category.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh my God.
So many questions and justquietly, you sound like you have
told this many, many times, soI used to be an investor, so I'm
used to hearing pitches and nowgiving pitches.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So yeah, it's in my DNA, I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That leads me to another question.
Considering you were on theinvestment, investor side, was
this strange to go to the clientside?
And what kind of adjustmentsdid you have to make?
Because you know, my background100 million years ago was in
media and I really, reallywanted to get to the sales side
(04:45):
because I saw they were the funones.
They got to do things, they gotto be innovative as opposed to
okay, now what?
And a very wise woman said tome who was at ESPN.
She took me to lunch.
I will never forget this andshe said you would never open up
a clothing store if you did notknow how to shop.
So it's really funny.
(05:06):
I'm like I know how to shop.
She's like, no, no, shopspecifically for your client,
for your customer, for yourdemographic.
So was it an odd transition,all of a sudden being like, oh
wait, a second, I perhaps don'thave the resources I had before,
or you're working underconstraints that you didn't have
before, totally.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I think you know.
So my background is as amarketer in kind of material
science space right runningmarketing for startups, mostly
in the Boston area, and I joinedthe world of venture capital
because one of the chairman andthe board of one of those
companies actually was startinghis own fund and he said to me
(05:49):
you know, I totally see yourprocess.
You love joining a company andbuilding a brand and launching
product for the first time andthen you get bored and you move
on to the next startup and wantto do it all over again.
What if you could do that in amore scalable way across a
portfolio of investments?
You know, traditionally atMaterial Impact, which was the
venture fund that I came from,we had invested in extremely
(06:12):
early stage companies thattypically are like you know and
you come from the professorshipworld.
These are like postdoc PhDs outof you know leading
universities that have anincredible technology but have
no idea how to develop abusiness.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Those are the scary ones.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, go to market strategy or you know, really
think about product market fitand build a position in the
marketplace and a brand for thefirst time.
And so I was almost an atypicalventure partner in that I
really was operational in thesecompanies.
I would jump in, serve asinterim CMO, get the brand off
(06:51):
the ground, hire my replacementand move on to the next company.
So when Jen Phoenix came alongand this was in an area that I
was extremely passionate about,had been looking at kind of the
leather alternative, sustainablematerial alternative market for
quite some time in the fashionand footwear space, and we were
looking at all kinds of reallyincredible technologies but most
(07:13):
of them were very early stageand unable to really meet kind
of the price and the performanceand the scale requirements of
big brands.
Right, when you have somethingat a lab scale, it can be super
exciting, but that there's awhole host of challenges that
come with trying to scale it up,to be price competitive, to be
performance competitive to themarket.
(07:34):
And what have we learned?
Consumers will not pay a greenpremium, like they will not pay
more for a more sustainableproduct.
So was like clean tech, youknow, 1.0, the bubble burst.
What was it in the early 2000s,because it was like you could
have this product.
It's greener, but it doesn'twork as well and it's going to
(07:55):
cost you more.
It's just never going to work.
So GenPhoenix came along andthey had to enter the market,
creating a material that wasn't.
They weren't selling asustainability story.
When they came into the market,they had to compete on price
and performance because at thetime, particularly in like the
aviation category,sustainability was not front and
(08:16):
center in decision making formaterials for seating.
It had to last a long time, ithad to be lightweight, it had to
perform and stand up to therigors of 24-7 wear and tear and
use.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Because the material performed so well and was priced
so competitively, it became themarket leader in the category
Do you think sorry to interrupt,do you think the man who
invented this product, thisprocess, understood the business
to price it correctly?
Because with all the designersand all the small businesses and
(08:51):
so many brands I've worked with, it's fascinating that so many
create this incredible productbut because they've priced it
incorrectly or they don'tunderstand that, in order to be
competitive, that they need towork on a smaller margin, which
most brands don't want to ordon't know how to.
So I find it intriguing thatsaid inventor knew how to do
(09:17):
that.
And you know if you're gettingall of these skins and they need
to be made into one sheet,because when leather is sold,
it's sold per square foot, butwhen you buy other materials
it's sold based on yards.
So one's a skin like an animaland one is something that's been
(09:37):
manufactured.
So that is a fascinatingprocess, because if you're doing
something hypothetically forautomotive or for airplanes,
there can't be any deficiencieswithin the skin.
So this is a really interestingprocess, because how would one
know how to compare prices?
(09:58):
Like are you comparing it toyou?
Are you comparing it to squarefeet on leather?
Like, this is how do you lookup a word if you don't know how
to spell it?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, well, and I think there's a lot of different
factors that come into pricing.
At the end of the day, though,our philosophy is the material
has to be price neutral to theconsumer and margin neutral to
the brand.
It's a non-starter otherwise,and so you know.
But if you look at, there arecertain elements of our product
(10:27):
that add a lot of value to whatthe incumbent solutions are.
So we're sold on a roll, and soif you think about the
operational efficiencies ofdealing with materials that are
on a roll versus traditionalleather, you're dealing with
less waste.
There's kind of someoperational improvements that go
with processing a roll versushides, right.
(10:49):
But also, I think, when weentered the market and our
inventor, chris Bevan, reallydecided to go after the aviation
seating market when we entered,we had to offer something above
and beyond what existed today,and at the time there was
leather and fabric.
That was it.
Today you see all kinds of toyour point, pu synthetics right
(11:10):
in the marketplace, but at thetime those were the only two
solutions, and it was almostlike he stumped.
You know, I think Chris Bevansaw all this waste in the world
Like there's value, there'sbeauty, there's utility in this
leather fiber that's just beingthrown into landfill.
How do we harness?
You know, leather is anincredible, sustainable, durable
product because it lasts solong right.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Can I ask you a question though?
Yeah, within all of the leatherwastes, right?
Yeah, like cow has a pebblegrain, it's obviously much
bigger.
Lamb is softer and much morelightweight, you know.
Then, once you mix it up togoat, even ostrich or camel, how
(11:54):
are you able and again,obviously this is proprietary
I'm just intrigued as a brandowner, designer, as someone who
would potentially have otherpeople listening that would want
to be part of this how are theyable to merge skins together of
different animals?
Is that done?
We only work with bovineleather, gotcha, okay, that's
(12:16):
okay.
Cow for the win.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, cow for the win .
And I think you know obviouslyyou need to.
With any sort of technologylike this, you have to kind of
be able to control your input,to control your output, if you
will.
So yeah, there's.
Obviously our technology has thecapability to fiberize.
Like anything that can befiberized we can create material
from.
So we've actually experimentedwith plant-based feedstocks,
(12:43):
textile waste, experimented withplant-based feedstocks, textile
waste.
If it can be broken down to thefiber level, we can create a
base material out of it.
Which is really what while allthose partners I mentioned who
come in as investors are soexcited about us, is we don't?
You know, today we work onrecycled wet blue leather waste,
but tomorrow we can take back acoach handbag, adopt Martin's
(13:06):
boot when it's no longer neededand give it as many lives as
possible because it can be putthrough the exact same process.
And that full circularity storyis what's really exciting.
But at the end of the day, thatproduct the recycled wet blue
product, the aviation seatingmaterial it's got to stand up to
all the performancespecifications, got to be priced
(13:28):
competitively.
So you're not paying a premiumfor something like us.
And it has to offer not justlike an incremental
sustainability benefit, but amajor sustainability win for the
brand.
So our material is at least 80%lowered carbon footprint than
traditional leather and it'smade from waste.
So if you think of ESGcommitments that are really
(13:51):
focused on waste mitigation andalso carbon reduction, we're
helping brands who adopt ourmaterial at scale, and the key
to unlocking scale was thatprice and performance that I
described really make progresstowards our goals and, in some
case, hit their goals, becausethey can integrate our material
with such confidence.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
If you ever wanted to start a handbag brand and
didn't know where to start, thisis for you.
If you had dreams of becoming ahandbag designer but aren't
trained in design, this is foryou.
If you have a handbag brand andneed strategy and direction,
this is for you.
I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbagdesigner expert and handbag
(14:35):
fairy godmother, and this is theHandbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
Over the next 10 classes, Iwill break down everything you
need to know to make,manufacture and market a handbag
brand, broken down to ensurethat you will not only skip
steps in the handbag buildingprocess, but also to save money
to avoid the learning curve ofcostly mistakes.
For the past 20 years, I'vebeen teaching at the top fashion
universities in New York City,wrote the Handbag Designer Bible
(14:58):
, founded the Handbag Awards andcreated the only Handbag
Designer Podcast.
I'm going to show you like Ihave countless brands to create
in this in-depth course, fromsketch to sample to sale.
Whether you're just startingout and don't even know where to
start or begin, or if you had abrand and need some strategic
direction, the Handbag Designer101 Masterclass is just for you.
(15:19):
So let's get started and you'llbe the creator of the next it
bag.
Join me, emily Blumenthal in theHandbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
So be sure to sign up atemilyblumenthalcom slash
masterclass and type in the codePINECAST to get 10% off your
masterclass today.
(15:39):
So I know you had mentionedcoach slash, coachtopia.
You know, the funny thing aboutthat is that it didn't seem
like it was new when it came out.
It's like, well, this has beenaround for ages, but it hasn't.
(16:12):
And I think, and when I spoketo Todd Kahn, aka Coach Captain,
coach King, he had said to mewe are so laser focused on this
17-year-old, 16-year year oldcustomer.
And I've had some interestingguest speakers who,
interestingly enough, recentlysaid that the junior in high
school is the plum targetbecause they still have enough
(16:35):
decision making capability,they're creating their own
trends because by the time theybecome seniors, their minds are
so focused on trying to becomean iteration of a new person.
Minds are so focused on tryingto become an iteration of a new
person.
Yeah, I will, and it's reallyinteresting.
But in taking this material,especially the tabby which made
(17:00):
a huge comeback, being on BellaHadid, which my students said
that was the hook as to gettingeverybody back interested in the
brand, and I completely agreewith you that nobody cares about
sustainability to pay a premiumfor it the brands that I've
consulted for I've said do yourbest, try to have one product
within your assortment that'spotentially sustainable, that
(17:20):
you can speak to and then saythat it's party for your mission
.
It's interesting, though,within Coachtopia which correct
me if I'm wrong is pieces ofleathers kind of woven together
patchwork?
No, it's not.
It's not.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
In some cases it is, and in some cases you know so.
Coachtopia integrated ourrecycled leather material across
this entire range, so no bag isthe same.
No, I mean the bags are.
There is consistencies acrossthe collection.
We are found as the linermaterial throughout the entire
collection.
So that's a hydro entangled,recycled leather product, right?
(17:58):
That's not like scraps woventogether, that's our kind of
regenerated, circular leatherproduct.
And that was like step one inworking with Coach was.
Coach Topia was the perfectplatform because, like an
incubator within Coach, you knowtheir whole motto is progress
over perfection, like, let's trynew materials, let's try new
design philosophy and let's getthings out into the market and
(18:21):
learn, and then take thoselearnings and pass them over the
fence to the larger Coach brand, which is exactly what we did
with Coachtopia.
That product, which is theliner, is uncoated.
We had never made an uncoatedversion of our product.
Right, because it's soft and ithas, like that suede kind of
supple texture to it.
We'd never done anything likethat and in under a year we
(18:45):
collaborated with Coach tocreate this material that would
be found across the entire Coachrange.
What I loved about theCoachtopia range, what I loved
about Coachtopia, what theylearned, was that these younger
generations that you referencedcelebrated different materials,
different things like, ratherthan try to pretend it's leather
(19:05):
, luxury can be more than onething.
Let's celebrate that it'sthings Like, rather than try to
pretend it's leather.
Luxury can be more than onething.
Let's celebrate that it'sdifferent Like.
Does it have to perform as wellas leather?
Hell yeah, but can it bedifferent than leather?
Absolutely, and that was areally important learning that
I've seen a lot of brands whoare embracing sustainability now
are trying to learn.
I think in the past it waslet's just swap it in and not
(19:27):
tell people about it, and nowit's no, let's call it something
different.
Let's show you how it's made.
Let's celebrate its uniqueness,one of the unforeseen things we
learned through our Doc Martenscollaboration and our
collaboration with coaches.
Our material just like takesvery well to printing and
embroidery even better thanleather we never like really
(19:50):
anticipate and it's lighterweight.
So there's certain designopportunities that are opened up
because the material isdifferent that designers are
excited about and want to runwith, and it's those styles that
are leading with.
This is new and this isinnovation and this is different
, and that this opens up designpossibilities.
Oh, and guess what?
(20:11):
It also happens to besustainable.
That is the unlock we found inexciting younger generations who
are very much aligned withvalues around sustainability,
but still want something new,different, special and
innovative.
And so today, what we'velaunched, todd and I launched at
CES, is a material that we callNew Gen, which will now be an
(20:37):
outer material for coach bagsand that is going to be hit
stores in the fall of 2025.
So just around the corner, andit will be different than
leather.
It has a name that's differentfrom leather it's new gen, it's
a new generation of material.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And it's proprietary to Coach slash you.
Yes, yes exactly, but as.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Todd says I mean Todd will say it and he said
obviously we want a head start.
But this, we hope the industryadopts and embraces this new
material because it's soexciting.
It enables us to really make adent on climate change and
really kind of find solutions.
For, you know, decarbonizationas it relates to the leather
(21:25):
industry.
For you know, decarbonizationas it relates to the leather
industry, but Coach is a leatherlegacy brand.
They're not moving away fromleather, they're just
supplementing their portfoliowith materials that they feel,
you know, appeal to youngergenerations of you know, very
eco-conscious customers who arejust open to embracing new
things.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I mean, obviously I love this and I'm snitting with
this and what it is and what itrepresents, and I'm not
surprised that Coach was thepioneer of this.
Yeah, it's very interestingbecause obviously, like people
say, you know nobody's shopping,retail is dead, but retail is
just different.
People are shopping differently.
(22:06):
Shopping retail is dead, butretail is just different.
People are shopping differentlyTo the point we had discussed
earlier.
The number one bag you can findat any thrift store or vintage
shop is an old coach bag,because that baseball mitt
leather will last a lifetime,almost to Coach's detriment,
that they would renderthemselves no one needing a new
(22:27):
bag, and I know they're goingback to their archives in terms
of silhouettes and so forth.
I think this is really excitingto see how this is being
integrated into the brand, intothe handbag world, especially
with Coach, and I love thatthere will be a new material
Just to confirm because you saidso, new gen is for Coach only,
(22:48):
or other people will thentheoretically have access to new
gen.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Well, you know new gen and the name and, like the
material that we co-created forCoach, obviously is exclusive to
Coach for a period of time, butwe are working with other
partners and other brands oncollaborating with them to
create recycled leathersolutions for their own leather
goods and accessories andfootwear applications.
(23:14):
So we make recycled leather.
The version of our recycledleather that we collaborated on
with Coach is for Coach, butthere are other versions of that
recycled leather that wecollaborated on with Coach is
for Coach, but there are otherversions of that recycled
leather that we collaborate onwith other brand partners.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Can I ask you a stupid question.
Once people purchase this, theraw materials, they are the ones
who then dye it or stamp on itor embroider it.
You don't do anything.
You supply the material off,you go.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
No, it actually depends.
So, like in the case of DocMartens, we actually finish the
material in-house.
We have finishing capabilitiesbecause, as I'm sure you can
imagine, in transportation we'vehad to finish all of those
materials.
But we also have kind ofcollaborated with tanneries and
other channel partners in theecosystem who might have
(24:04):
expertise in different finishingcapabilities, and we found that
that's.
You know, we are fiber science,circular materials experts.
We are not finishing experts inthe way that you know tanneries,
who've been doing this kind ofwork for decades, are.
So you know, we are very opento partnerships to be able to
(24:26):
kind of, you know, go andexperiment with all different
types of finishing capabilities.
But we do have the capabilityin-house as well.
So what's really cool is wereally do own like our full
supply chain and it's all basedin the UK, which is, in today's
world, you know, a greatcompetitive benefit that we
probably never foresaw.
But we also are open to havingpartners finish our material as
(24:49):
well.
It's almost like we ship thehide, if you will, the recycled
hide that can be finished andprocessed in the same way that a
leather hide can.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
This is so interesting, real quick, is this
one of these things?
Things, though, and we hadspoken about it, with other
brands reaching out and saying,okay, we want to develop
something specific to us or thisis our brand's DNA.
I assume that's part of whatyour marketing strategy is to
make this democratizing thismaterial per se, to make it
(25:20):
available for people who want totry.
And you know like it's veryinteresting if you talk to
people who know, or think theyknow, because PU or PVC,
polyvinyl chloride and everybodycalls it vegan leather, and
anybody who deals with leatherknows there's nothing really
vegan about it.
It's chemically made, it'splastic, it is plastic, and,
(25:45):
over time, you know, the rawmaterials of whatever's left
either must be burned or it goesinto a landfill or it becomes
corroded and you know whatevergases, blah, blah, blah, come
from that and I applaudobviously what Regen is doing.
I just have one more question interms of have you received any
(26:07):
pushback leather out of likeoranges, apples, potatoes,
(26:30):
mushrooms and prickly pear andI'd say banana skins I'm not
really sure it's like a fruitsalad and obviously the fronds
of the pineapple, and anybodywho thinks they can make a
product exclusively with that iscompletely misinformed, because
you will need a glue, you willneed something interior.
There must be something to holdthat bag together.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I have found that a lot of people are kind of moving
away from those uniquematerials because it's cute, but
it's just not enough to movethe needle to develop a
collection that's sustainabletruly sustainable.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, and as now putting my investor hat on, you
know that was something we wereseeing, I think.
Even if you look back two yearsago, there was an explosion of
vegan, plant-based leatheralternatives hitting the market
with a lot of exciting potential.
Unfortunately, a number ofthose startups and technologies
shut down because of aninability to scale.
(27:24):
That doesn't mean that thatspace doesn't hold a ton of
potential and promise as itcontinues to become more kind of
price and performance,competitive right or an off shoe
was because it was tooexpensive and it fell apart, or
it just wasn't able to, kind of,you know, meet the performance
(27:47):
expectations of the customer orthe brand itself.
And that's where that wholeprice performance planet
equation is, you know, superimportant.
I think another big learning is, you know, and one that we've
really, I think, successfullydemonstrated with this
Coachtopia to Coachcollaboration, is brands,
particularly leather brands.
(28:08):
Like they do things a veryspecific way.
They're steeped in heritage andthis is how you create product
and get it to market.
When you introduce innovation,something new, it's very
disruptive to the season overseason process of designing and
manufacturing product in themarket.
So, you know, I think, the factthat at Coach we had this
(28:31):
Coachtopia incubation model,where we started with a liner
right, we didn't start with theouter.
In some cases, we work withbrands who are interested in
like, okay, let's start withtrim or let's start with this
component of a shoe, right?
So it's like we get to knoweach other.
We're working together, youknow, we're testing something,
and then that allows brands tohave the confidence to once
(28:52):
they've recognized that thematerial stands up and can be
competitive and can be embracedby consumers, which we're really
excited to have seen happen nowwith Coachtopia and with Doc
Martens.
All right, now we're ready togo full steam ahead, right?
So, doc Martens, we startedwith three styles.
Now we're on our fourth seasonwith them and every season has
(29:13):
grown exponentially, and so Ithink it's like there's a start
small and work together, getoutside your normal development
cycle, embrace and having buy-inand sponsorship from the top,
like you're seeing Todd, captainTodd on stage and talk about
this and why it's important andmeaningful for the future of the
(29:35):
business and the brand.
Right, you need that if thisgoes.
You know you really need thatkind of that buy-in and support.
And I think the last ingredienthas been we opened our factory
doors to these partners and theyopened the doors of their
factories.
We worked shoulder to shoulderwith them on getting the
material right Like I said,we're the fiber science
(29:59):
transportation product andevolve it to have the hand feel
and the body and the supplenessof a luxury leather good.
That was like the what I callkind of like the last mile
innovation that had to happenbefore this could actually go
into the marketplace.
If we had just passed ourmaterial over the fence to Coach
(30:20):
, it would have never gotten tothe point where it is.
So it's true partnership thatreally unlocks innovation in the
sustainable materials category,but it's hard, it's hard to do,
it's outside of the typicaldesign cycle, but it can be done
and now we have a blueprint fordoing it and we're bringing
that to other brands because youknow, they see this success
(30:41):
story of Coach and they want toembrace that for themselves.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I mean, this is such a similar story to how Lucite
made it to handbags, but not thesame, because Lucite became
like a little bit toxic, alittle bit, a little bit heavy
the whole thing.
But if you look at any Lucitebag, it's still around because
it came from leftover materialsfrom World War II.
Go figure, Wow, I knowEverything's circular.
(31:07):
Exactly, Elise.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
How can we find you?
Follow you?
Get more information about thisproduct?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Sure, yeah, just visit jenphoenixcom.
You can reach out to me onLinkedIn under Elise Weiner, but
we're really excited to speakwith brands who are, you know,
looking for sustainablealternatives and excited about
the scale and the performanceand the price capabilities of
GenPhoenix.
And thank you, emily, for thetime.
(31:35):
It's a pleasure, as always,speaking with you and, yeah, I
hope you have a great rest ofthe day.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I'm a super fan , thank you.
Thank you, and yeah, I hope youhave a great rest of the day.
Yeah, I'm a super fan, thankyou.
Thank you, bye.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
these younger generations that you referenced
celebrated different materials,different things.
Like, rather than try topretend it's leather, luxury can
be more than one thing.
Let's celebrate that it'sdifferent.
Like does it have to perform aswell as leather?
Hell yeah, but can it bedifferent than leather?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast, with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(00:42):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Elise Weiner of JenPhoenix to Handbag Designer 101,
the podcast.
Welcome, we're so excited tohave you, so excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
(01:02):
Yeah, this is a lucky overlapbecause I get pitched so often
from people industry people andwhen I was looking what Jen
Phoenix did and I said, oh myGod, this is a fortuitous email
that came through my inboxbecause I said this is something
so many more people need toknow about.
Do you want to just go straightinto what Jen Phoenix is and
then we can back into how itworks and so forth, Because it's
(01:23):
so cool?
Do you want to just go straightinto what GenPhoenix is and
then we can back into how itworks and so forth, Because it's
so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Thank you, yeah.
So GenPhoenix is a UK-basedsustainable materials
manufacturer and the company hasbeen around since 2007.
And they take leather wastethat's bound for landfill at the
tanning stage.
So when leather hides aretanned they actually take on
this blue color called wet blueand because of irregularities in
(01:54):
the hide or kind of the endapplication needs for that hide,
a good portion of the hideactually traditionally goes to
landfill because it can't beused for the end application.
Hide actually traditionallygoes to landfill because it
can't be used for the endapplication.
We at GenPhoenix rescue thatleather waste and we've rescued
over 10,000 tons of wet blueleather waste since the
company's origination.
(02:15):
And what we do is through apatented technology process we
break that waste down to thefiber level and then use the
power of super high pressuredwater to re-entangle those
fibers back together, resultingin almost like a recycled
leather hide that can then befinished and processed and used
for applications like masstransportation, seating, but in
(02:39):
our discussion today really afocus on consumer leather goods
handbags, accessories andfootwear.
And because the company has beenaround for so long, they've
created an incrediblestate-of-the-art manufacturing
facility that has the capacityto manufacture 6 million square
meters of this recycled materialto really meet the needs of
(03:01):
some really large brand partnersthat we brought on in that
consumer category in the pastcouple of years, which include
Coach Doc Martens as well asinvestment from the parent
company of Coach Tapestry DocMartens themselves and then
Jaguar Land Rover's investmentarm in Motion Ventures in motion
(03:26):
ventures.
So we're expanding into thesekind of consumer and automotive
categories after having been forclose to 15 years supplying
recycled leather material to theaviation and mass
transportation seating space.
So very exciting time in thecompany and just a really cool
material that today uses thatkind of wet blue leather waste.
But what we're working on rightnow is actually taking finished
(03:48):
leather waste, either at thefactory floor level or at the
end of a product's life cycle,back through the exact same
process to create fully circularrecycled leather material which
is truly like the holy grail asit relates to circularity in
the kind of sustainablematerials category.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh my God.
So many questions and justquietly, you sound like you have
told this many, many times, soI used to be an investor, so I'm
used to hearing pitches and nowgiving pitches.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So yeah, it's in my DNA, I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That leads me to another question.
Considering you were on theinvestment, investor side, was
this strange to go to the clientside?
And what kind of adjustmentsdid you have to make?
Because you know, my background100 million years ago was in
media and I really, reallywanted to get to the sales side
(04:45):
because I saw they were the funones.
They got to do things, they gotto be innovative as opposed to
okay, now what?
And a very wise woman said tome who was at ESPN.
She took me to lunch.
I will never forget this andshe said you would never open up
a clothing store if you did notknow how to shop.
So it's really funny.
(05:06):
I'm like I know how to shop.
She's like, no, no, shopspecifically for your client,
for your customer, for yourdemographic.
So was it an odd transition,all of a sudden being like, oh
wait, a second, I perhaps don'thave the resources I had before,
or you're working underconstraints that you didn't have
before, totally.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I think you know.
So my background is as amarketer in kind of material
science space right runningmarketing for startups, mostly
in the Boston area, and I joinedthe world of venture capital
because one of the chairman andthe board of one of those
companies actually was startinghis own fund and he said to me
(05:49):
you know, I totally see yourprocess.
You love joining a company andbuilding a brand and launching
product for the first time andthen you get bored and you move
on to the next startup and wantto do it all over again.
What if you could do that in amore scalable way across a
portfolio of investments?
You know, traditionally atMaterial Impact, which was the
venture fund that I came from,we had invested in extremely
(06:12):
early stage companies thattypically are like you know and
you come from the professorshipworld.
These are like postdoc PhDs outof you know leading
universities that have anincredible technology but have
no idea how to develop abusiness.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Those are the scary ones.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, go to market strategy or you know, really
think about product market fitand build a position in the
marketplace and a brand for thefirst time.
And so I was almost an atypicalventure partner in that I
really was operational in thesecompanies.
I would jump in, serve asinterim CMO, get the brand off
(06:51):
the ground, hire my replacementand move on to the next company.
So when Jen Phoenix came alongand this was in an area that I
was extremely passionate about,had been looking at kind of the
leather alternative, sustainablematerial alternative market for
quite some time in the fashionand footwear space, and we were
looking at all kinds of reallyincredible technologies but most
(07:13):
of them were very early stageand unable to really meet kind
of the price and the performanceand the scale requirements of
big brands.
Right, when you have somethingat a lab scale, it can be super
exciting, but that there's awhole host of challenges that
come with trying to scale it up,to be price competitive, to be
performance competitive to themarket.
(07:34):
And what have we learned?
Consumers will not pay a greenpremium, like they will not pay
more for a more sustainableproduct.
So was like clean tech, youknow, 1.0, the bubble burst.
What was it in the early 2000s,because it was like you could
have this product.
It's greener, but it doesn'twork as well and it's going to
(07:55):
cost you more.
It's just never going to work.
So GenPhoenix came along andthey had to enter the market,
creating a material that wasn't.
They weren't selling asustainability story.
When they came into the market,they had to compete on price
and performance because at thetime, particularly in like the
aviation category,sustainability was not front and
(08:16):
center in decision making formaterials for seating.
It had to last a long time, ithad to be lightweight, it had to
perform and stand up to therigors of 24-7 wear and tear and
use.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Because the material performed so well and was priced
so competitively, it became themarket leader in the category
Do you think sorry to interrupt,do you think the man who
invented this product, thisprocess, understood the business
to price it correctly?
Because with all the designersand all the small businesses and
(08:51):
so many brands I've worked with, it's fascinating that so many
create this incredible productbut because they've priced it
incorrectly or they don'tunderstand that, in order to be
competitive, that they need towork on a smaller margin, which
most brands don't want to ordon't know how to.
So I find it intriguing thatsaid inventor knew how to do
(09:17):
that.
And you know if you're gettingall of these skins and they need
to be made into one sheet,because when leather is sold,
it's sold per square foot, butwhen you buy other materials
it's sold based on yards.
So one's a skin like an animaland one is something that's been
(09:37):
manufactured.
So that is a fascinatingprocess, because if you're doing
something hypothetically forautomotive or for airplanes,
there can't be any deficiencieswithin the skin.
So this is a really interestingprocess, because how would one
know how to compare prices?
(09:58):
Like are you comparing it toyou?
Are you comparing it to squarefeet on leather?
Like, this is how do you lookup a word if you don't know how
to spell it?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, well, and I think there's a lot of different
factors that come into pricing.
At the end of the day, though,our philosophy is the material
has to be price neutral to theconsumer and margin neutral to
the brand.
It's a non-starter otherwise,and so you know.
But if you look at, there arecertain elements of our product
(10:27):
that add a lot of value to whatthe incumbent solutions are.
So we're sold on a roll, and soif you think about the
operational efficiencies ofdealing with materials that are
on a roll versus traditionalleather, you're dealing with
less waste.
There's kind of someoperational improvements that go
with processing a roll versushides, right.
(10:49):
But also, I think, when weentered the market and our
inventor, chris Bevan, reallydecided to go after the aviation
seating market when we entered,we had to offer something above
and beyond what existed today,and at the time there was
leather and fabric.
That was it.
Today you see all kinds of toyour point, pu synthetics right
(11:10):
in the marketplace, but at thetime those were the only two
solutions, and it was almostlike he stumped.
You know, I think Chris Bevansaw all this waste in the world
Like there's value, there'sbeauty, there's utility in this
leather fiber that's just beingthrown into landfill.
How do we harness?
You know, leather is anincredible, sustainable, durable
product because it lasts solong right.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Can I ask you a question though?
Yeah, within all of the leatherwastes, right?
Yeah, like cow has a pebblegrain, it's obviously much
bigger.
Lamb is softer and much morelightweight, you know.
Then, once you mix it up togoat, even ostrich or camel, how
(11:54):
are you able and again,obviously this is proprietary
I'm just intrigued as a brandowner, designer, as someone who
would potentially have otherpeople listening that would want
to be part of this how are theyable to merge skins together of
different animals?
Is that done?
We only work with bovineleather, gotcha, okay, that's
(12:16):
okay.
Cow for the win.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, cow for the win .
And I think you know obviouslyyou need to.
With any sort of technologylike this, you have to kind of
be able to control your input,to control your output, if you
will.
So yeah, there's.
Obviously our technology has thecapability to fiberize.
Like anything that can befiberized we can create material
from.
So we've actually experimentedwith plant-based feedstocks,
(12:43):
textile waste, experimented withplant-based feedstocks, textile
waste.
If it can be broken down to thefiber level, we can create a
base material out of it.
Which is really what while allthose partners I mentioned who
come in as investors are soexcited about us, is we don't?
You know, today we work onrecycled wet blue leather waste,
but tomorrow we can take back acoach handbag, adopt Martin's
(13:06):
boot when it's no longer neededand give it as many lives as
possible because it can be putthrough the exact same process.
And that full circularity storyis what's really exciting.
But at the end of the day, thatproduct the recycled wet blue
product, the aviation seatingmaterial it's got to stand up to
all the performancespecifications, got to be priced
(13:28):
competitively.
So you're not paying a premiumfor something like us.
And it has to offer not justlike an incremental
sustainability benefit, but amajor sustainability win for the
brand.
So our material is at least 80%lowered carbon footprint than
traditional leather and it'smade from waste.
So if you think of ESGcommitments that are really
(13:51):
focused on waste mitigation andalso carbon reduction, we're
helping brands who adopt ourmaterial at scale, and the key
to unlocking scale was thatprice and performance that I
described really make progresstowards our goals and, in some
case, hit their goals, becausethey can integrate our material
with such confidence.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
If you ever wanted to start a handbag brand and
didn't know where to start, thisis for you.
If you had dreams of becoming ahandbag designer but aren't
trained in design, this is foryou.
If you have a handbag brand andneed strategy and direction,
this is for you.
I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbagdesigner expert and handbag
(14:35):
fairy godmother, and this is theHandbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
Over the next 10 classes, Iwill break down everything you
need to know to make,manufacture and market a handbag
brand, broken down to ensurethat you will not only skip
steps in the handbag buildingprocess, but also to save money
to avoid the learning curve ofcostly mistakes.
For the past 20 years, I'vebeen teaching at the top fashion
universities in New York City,wrote the Handbag Designer Bible
(14:58):
, founded the Handbag Awards andcreated the only Handbag
Designer Podcast.
I'm going to show you like Ihave countless brands to create
in this in-depth course, fromsketch to sample to sale.
Whether you're just startingout and don't even know where to
start or begin, or if you had abrand and need some strategic
direction, the Handbag Designer101 Masterclass is just for you.
(15:19):
So let's get started and you'llbe the creator of the next it
bag.
Join me, emily Blumenthal in theHandbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
So be sure to sign up atemilyblumenthalcom slash
masterclass and type in the codePINECAST to get 10% off your
masterclass today.
(15:39):
So I know you had mentionedcoach slash, coachtopia.
You know, the funny thing aboutthat is that it didn't seem
like it was new when it came out.
It's like, well, this has beenaround for ages, but it hasn't.
(16:12):
And I think, and when I spoketo Todd Kahn, aka Coach Captain,
coach King, he had said to mewe are so laser focused on this
17-year-old, 16-year year oldcustomer.
And I've had some interestingguest speakers who,
interestingly enough, recentlysaid that the junior in high
school is the plum targetbecause they still have enough
(16:35):
decision making capability,they're creating their own
trends because by the time theybecome seniors, their minds are
so focused on trying to becomean iteration of a new person.
Minds are so focused on tryingto become an iteration of a new
person.
Yeah, I will, and it's reallyinteresting.
But in taking this material,especially the tabby which made
(17:00):
a huge comeback, being on BellaHadid, which my students said
that was the hook as to gettingeverybody back interested in the
brand, and I completely agreewith you that nobody cares about
sustainability to pay a premiumfor it the brands that I've
consulted for I've said do yourbest, try to have one product
within your assortment that'spotentially sustainable, that
(17:20):
you can speak to and then saythat it's party for your mission
.
It's interesting, though,within Coachtopia which correct
me if I'm wrong is pieces ofleathers kind of woven together
patchwork?
No, it's not.
It's not.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
In some cases it is, and in some cases you know so.
Coachtopia integrated ourrecycled leather material across
this entire range, so no bag isthe same.
No, I mean the bags are.
There is consistencies acrossthe collection.
We are found as the linermaterial throughout the entire
collection.
So that's a hydro entangled,recycled leather product, right?
(17:58):
That's not like scraps woventogether, that's our kind of
regenerated, circular leatherproduct.
And that was like step one inworking with Coach was.
Coach Topia was the perfectplatform because, like an
incubator within Coach, you knowtheir whole motto is progress
over perfection, like, let's trynew materials, let's try new
design philosophy and let's getthings out into the market and
(18:21):
learn, and then take thoselearnings and pass them over the
fence to the larger Coach brand, which is exactly what we did
with Coachtopia.
That product, which is theliner, is uncoated.
We had never made an uncoatedversion of our product.
Right, because it's soft and ithas, like that suede kind of
supple texture to it.
We'd never done anything likethat and in under a year we
(18:45):
collaborated with Coach tocreate this material that would
be found across the entire Coachrange.
What I loved about theCoachtopia range, what I loved
about Coachtopia, what theylearned, was that these younger
generations that you referencedcelebrated different materials,
different things like, ratherthan try to pretend it's leather
(19:05):
, luxury can be more than onething.
Let's celebrate that it'sthings Like, rather than try to
pretend it's leather.
Luxury can be more than onething.
Let's celebrate that it'sdifferent Like.
Does it have to perform as wellas leather?
Hell yeah, but can it bedifferent than leather?
Absolutely, and that was areally important learning that
I've seen a lot of brands whoare embracing sustainability now
are trying to learn.
I think in the past it waslet's just swap it in and not
(19:27):
tell people about it, and nowit's no, let's call it something
different.
Let's show you how it's made.
Let's celebrate its uniqueness,one of the unforeseen things we
learned through our Doc Martenscollaboration and our
collaboration with coaches.
Our material just like takesvery well to printing and
embroidery even better thanleather we never like really
(19:50):
anticipate and it's lighterweight.
So there's certain designopportunities that are opened up
because the material isdifferent that designers are
excited about and want to runwith, and it's those styles that
are leading with.
This is new and this isinnovation and this is different
, and that this opens up designpossibilities.
Oh, and guess what?
(20:11):
It also happens to besustainable.
That is the unlock we found inexciting younger generations who
are very much aligned withvalues around sustainability,
but still want something new,different, special and
innovative.
And so today, what we'velaunched, todd and I launched at
CES, is a material that we callNew Gen, which will now be an
(20:37):
outer material for coach bagsand that is going to be hit
stores in the fall of 2025.
So just around the corner, andit will be different than
leather.
It has a name that's differentfrom leather it's new gen, it's
a new generation of material.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And it's proprietary to Coach slash you.
Yes, yes exactly, but as.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Todd says I mean Todd will say it and he said
obviously we want a head start.
But this, we hope the industryadopts and embraces this new
material because it's soexciting.
It enables us to really make adent on climate change and
really kind of find solutions.
For, you know, decarbonizationas it relates to the leather
(21:25):
industry.
For you know, decarbonizationas it relates to the leather
industry, but Coach is a leatherlegacy brand.
They're not moving away fromleather, they're just
supplementing their portfoliowith materials that they feel,
you know, appeal to youngergenerations of you know, very
eco-conscious customers who arejust open to embracing new
things.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I mean, obviously I love this and I'm snitting with
this and what it is and what itrepresents, and I'm not
surprised that Coach was thepioneer of this.
Yeah, it's very interestingbecause obviously, like people
say, you know nobody's shopping,retail is dead, but retail is
just different.
People are shopping differently.
(22:06):
Shopping retail is dead, butretail is just different.
People are shopping differentlyTo the point we had discussed
earlier.
The number one bag you can findat any thrift store or vintage
shop is an old coach bag,because that baseball mitt
leather will last a lifetime,almost to Coach's detriment,
that they would renderthemselves no one needing a new
(22:27):
bag, and I know they're goingback to their archives in terms
of silhouettes and so forth.
I think this is really excitingto see how this is being
integrated into the brand, intothe handbag world, especially
with Coach, and I love thatthere will be a new material
Just to confirm because you saidso, new gen is for Coach only,
(22:48):
or other people will thentheoretically have access to new
gen.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Well, you know new gen and the name and, like the
material that we co-created forCoach, obviously is exclusive to
Coach for a period of time, butwe are working with other
partners and other brands oncollaborating with them to
create recycled leathersolutions for their own leather
goods and accessories andfootwear applications.
(23:14):
So we make recycled leather.
The version of our recycledleather that we collaborated on
with Coach is for Coach, butthere are other versions of that
recycled leather that wecollaborated on with Coach is
for Coach, but there are otherversions of that recycled
leather that we collaborate onwith other brand partners.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Can I ask you a stupid question.
Once people purchase this, theraw materials, they are the ones
who then dye it or stamp on itor embroider it.
You don't do anything.
You supply the material off,you go.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
No, it actually depends.
So, like in the case of DocMartens, we actually finish the
material in-house.
We have finishing capabilitiesbecause, as I'm sure you can
imagine, in transportation we'vehad to finish all of those
materials.
But we also have kind ofcollaborated with tanneries and
other channel partners in theecosystem who might have
(24:04):
expertise in different finishingcapabilities, and we found that
that's.
You know, we are fiber science,circular materials experts.
We are not finishing experts inthe way that you know tanneries,
who've been doing this kind ofwork for decades, are.
So you know, we are very opento partnerships to be able to
(24:26):
kind of, you know, go andexperiment with all different
types of finishing capabilities.
But we do have the capabilityin-house as well.
So what's really cool is wereally do own like our full
supply chain and it's all basedin the UK, which is, in today's
world, you know, a greatcompetitive benefit that we
probably never foresaw.
But we also are open to havingpartners finish our material as
(24:49):
well.
It's almost like we ship thehide, if you will, the recycled
hide that can be finished andprocessed in the same way that a
leather hide can.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
This is so interesting, real quick, is this
one of these things?
Things, though, and we hadspoken about it, with other
brands reaching out and saying,okay, we want to develop
something specific to us or thisis our brand's DNA.
I assume that's part of whatyour marketing strategy is to
make this democratizing thismaterial per se, to make it
(25:20):
available for people who want totry.
And you know like it's veryinteresting if you talk to
people who know, or think theyknow, because PU or PVC,
polyvinyl chloride and everybodycalls it vegan leather, and
anybody who deals with leatherknows there's nothing really
vegan about it.
It's chemically made, it'splastic, it is plastic, and,
(25:45):
over time, you know, the rawmaterials of whatever's left
either must be burned or it goesinto a landfill or it becomes
corroded and you know whatevergases, blah, blah, blah, come
from that and I applaudobviously what Regen is doing.
I just have one more question interms of have you received any
(26:07):
pushback leather out of likeoranges, apples, potatoes,
(26:30):
mushrooms and prickly pear andI'd say banana skins I'm not
really sure it's like a fruitsalad and obviously the fronds
of the pineapple, and anybodywho thinks they can make a
product exclusively with that iscompletely misinformed, because
you will need a glue, you willneed something interior.
There must be something to holdthat bag together.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I have found that a lot of people are kind of moving
away from those uniquematerials because it's cute, but
it's just not enough to movethe needle to develop a
collection that's sustainabletruly sustainable.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, and as now putting my investor hat on, you
know that was something we wereseeing, I think.
Even if you look back two yearsago, there was an explosion of
vegan, plant-based leatheralternatives hitting the market
with a lot of exciting potential.
Unfortunately, a number ofthose startups and technologies
shut down because of aninability to scale.
(27:24):
That doesn't mean that thatspace doesn't hold a ton of
potential and promise as itcontinues to become more kind of
price and performance,competitive right or an off shoe
was because it was tooexpensive and it fell apart, or
it just wasn't able to, kind of,you know, meet the performance
(27:47):
expectations of the customer orthe brand itself.
And that's where that wholeprice performance planet
equation is, you know, superimportant.
I think another big learning is, you know, and one that we've
really, I think, successfullydemonstrated with this
Coachtopia to Coachcollaboration, is brands,
particularly leather brands.
(28:08):
Like they do things a veryspecific way.
They're steeped in heritage andthis is how you create product
and get it to market.
When you introduce innovation,something new, it's very
disruptive to the season overseason process of designing and
manufacturing product in themarket.
So, you know, I think, the factthat at Coach we had this
(28:31):
Coachtopia incubation model,where we started with a liner
right, we didn't start with theouter.
In some cases, we work withbrands who are interested in
like, okay, let's start withtrim or let's start with this
component of a shoe, right?
So it's like we get to knoweach other.
We're working together, youknow, we're testing something,
and then that allows brands tohave the confidence to once
(28:52):
they've recognized that thematerial stands up and can be
competitive and can be embracedby consumers, which we're really
excited to have seen happen nowwith Coachtopia and with Doc
Martens.
All right, now we're ready togo full steam ahead, right?
So, doc Martens, we startedwith three styles.
Now we're on our fourth seasonwith them and every season has
(29:13):
grown exponentially, and so Ithink it's like there's a start
small and work together, getoutside your normal development
cycle, embrace and having buy-inand sponsorship from the top,
like you're seeing Todd, captainTodd on stage and talk about
this and why it's important andmeaningful for the future of the
(29:35):
business and the brand.
Right, you need that if thisgoes.
You know you really need thatkind of that buy-in and support.
And I think the last ingredienthas been we opened our factory
doors to these partners and theyopened the doors of their
factories.
We worked shoulder to shoulderwith them on getting the
material right Like I said,we're the fiber science
(29:59):
transportation product andevolve it to have the hand feel
and the body and the supplenessof a luxury leather good.
That was like the what I callkind of like the last mile
innovation that had to happenbefore this could actually go
into the marketplace.
If we had just passed ourmaterial over the fence to Coach
(30:20):
, it would have never gotten tothe point where it is.
So it's true partnership thatreally unlocks innovation in the
sustainable materials category,but it's hard, it's hard to do,
it's outside of the typicaldesign cycle, but it can be done
and now we have a blueprint fordoing it and we're bringing
that to other brands because youknow, they see this success
(30:41):
story of Coach and they want toembrace that for themselves.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I mean, this is such a similar story to how Lucite
made it to handbags, but not thesame, because Lucite became
like a little bit toxic, alittle bit, a little bit heavy
the whole thing.
But if you look at any Lucitebag, it's still around because
it came from leftover materialsfrom World War II.
Go figure, Wow, I knowEverything's circular.
(31:07):
Exactly, Elise.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
How can we find you?
Follow you?
Get more information about thisproduct?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Sure, yeah, just visit jenphoenixcom.
You can reach out to me onLinkedIn under Elise Weiner, but
we're really excited to speakwith brands who are, you know,
looking for sustainablealternatives and excited about
the scale and the performanceand the price capabilities of
GenPhoenix.
And thank you, emily, for thetime.
(31:35):
It's a pleasure, as always,speaking with you and, yeah, I
hope you have a great rest ofthe day.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I'm a super fan , thank you.
Thank you, and yeah, I hope youhave a great rest of the day.
Yeah, I'm a super fan, thankyou.
Thank you, bye.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.