December 23, 2025 • 39 mins
What if the material doesn’t matter as much as the meaning? We go deep on the power of story to outsell specs, exploring why a polarizing point of view can create die-hard loyalty and how luxury falters the moment it tries to scale. With Wale Sanni—millennial product specialist with a razor-sharp lens—we break down founder-led allure, pricing psychology, and the difference between a bag that looks good and a brand that lives rent-free in your head.
We pull apart The Row as a live case study in anti-scale strategy, then map how Gen Z gravitates to human-led labels where the founder’s life becomes the product roadmap. Balenciaga’s City bag emerges as the blueprint for hero silhouettes that keep a house coherent across seasons. From there, we challenge assumptions about materials, pointing out why PU can top leather when the narrative resonates and how “if you’re not hateable, you’re not lovable” explains the magnetism of brands with real edges.
The conversation moves through quiet luxury, retail anthropology, and the function-versus-fantasy tightrope: novelty bags that dominate headlines but strain margins, top handles that work only when engineered for real life, and the subtle rise of coded status—insider emblems over loud logos. We spotlight Coach’s thoughtful reset, discuss indie makers trapped by underpricing, and unpack why price often scripts satisfaction before the box is opened. Along the way, we tackle resale dynamics, community-building, and what it takes to protect brand DNA while still giving culture something to talk about.
If you’re a designer, collector, or just bag-obsessed, expect sharp takes you can use: how to price with confidence, how to build a hero and iterate without dilution, and how to turn a founder’s story into a durable moat. Listen, share with a friend who argues about logos, and leave a quick review so more bag nerds can find us.
👤 Our Guest:
Wale Sanni is a product specialist focused on luxury accessories, studying the intersection of founder-led design, pricing psychology, and consumer behavior. He advises emerging and established brands on building cohesive collections, hero products, and brand stories that resonate across generations.
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
All product is irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevantis story.
That's all you have in thisworld.
The Bible is a collection ofstories.
Harry Potter is a collection ofstories.
Something really funny aboutthat, that I know you would even
detest this, is that the Telfarshopping bag is just the Kate
Spade bag of the 90s.
(00:20):
It's literally the exact samebag, right?
But what's different is the wayhe proposed it as a story to a
newer group of clients.
So I think that's what reallymatters at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert, and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love,
from the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(00:52):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Wale Sani, MillennialProduct Specialist,
Extraordinaire to HandbagDesigner101, the podcast.
Welcome, welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Yeah, when I messaged you, you're like, I
follow you.
And I, you know, not to soundold and giddy, I was like, ooh,
that's cool.
I feel famous now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
Yes, yes, indeed.
Well, that's that's how I feltwhen you responded.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
So Aw bless.
So let's dive in right to it.
So I'm smitten with yourcountdowns.
When you started doing this,because obviously, as you said,
it's been a minute.
What drew you into thinking,like, okay, hold on.
If there's anybody who's goingto be an expert on handbags
within the space, it's me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
The only reason I even came into that space is
because I felt I wasn't one.
And I accepted that as my fate.
And as I grew, I learned fromthe people that followed me.
I would message them and say,hey, what did you like?
What did you not like?
Give me the exact reasons why.
And that's how I grew to be theproduct specialist that I am
now.
It's not my thoughts, it's thethoughts of people that I have
(02:08):
worked with along the years.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Wow.
So because I was going through,you have a lot of thoughts and a
lot of opinions.
So, and like how designs andbrands have gone upside down and
aren't following like what theirtrue self is.
Because I want to get right intothis because most people that I
have on, we have to be verypolitical.
(02:31):
There's a publicist hangingback.
I can't.
It's it's you know, I know, Iknow, I know.
For anybody who's watching onYouTube, like the facial
expressions we're exchanging.
It's like, girl, come on.
What are the brands right nowthat you think are being truly
authentic to their customer?
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
That is a fantastic question.
And I want to answer it with theshining obvious answer is the
row.
I think what they're doing is acase study of how luxury isn't
scalable.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
It is not scaled.
And the moment you try to scaleit is when you ruin everyone who
is actually a very valuableclient to the product that
you're selling.
So in recent years, the row istrying to figure out how do we
eliminate people to our brand asfast as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
That are not worthy of buying us.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
Yes, that are not aligned to our mission
statement.
I don't know if you've seenrecently, but the number one
client of the row recentlypublished this letter where
she's saying, you know, I feellike the row isn't me anymore.
They've taken it to a directionthat I wasn't a fan of.
And the role's response isthat's great.
We have other people in line.
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
Yeah, like don't buy us.
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
There's Kate down the street.
Please go check that out.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
Kate's good.
It's good.
Yeah, it's funny because onceyou hear the Margot bag crossing
over, like I was listening to asnarky podcast, and the
podcaster was saying who's gay,and he's like, I need to get my
daughter, who was eight, a miniMarg bag.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, we'vereally gone there.
Do you think though that perhapspart of the Rose success is the
(04:13):
fact that they are not so much aheritage brand and therefore
there isn't so much of theirproduct flooded on the circular
market?
Like, I think there's got to bea connection to that because
less have been produced over theyears.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
The real correlation between their success is
actually what makes Gen Z sointerested in the row, is that
it's it's a founder-led brand.
unknown (04:39):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
So essentially to Gen Z, it's being positioned to
them the same way that theywould see uh the way Kate Spade
was too.
What Kate Spade was to, youknow, millennial.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
To my to my group of people.
But they see it the same wayHaley Bieber sees Rhode and the
same way they see the founder.
And with the founder's lifestory being aligned to the way
that they see luxury witharchival, with the cates being
so historic in that sense, itgives them the opportunity to
(05:12):
feel like they are them whenthey buy the product.
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
So, yes.
Okay, so next, I feel like we'regonna be doing the ABCs here.
So Balanciaga, Balanciaga isprobably one of my most favorite
brands to talk about onlybecause of the motorcycle slash
city bag.
And to me, that's a case studyof how to understand a hero bag,
(05:36):
understand what you know is thebag and a product that you know
your customer really resonateswith, and how to maximize on it
on a familial level, right?
Like the iterations, it's a bigand a little, it's a mini,
everything still has like it allcarries that same likeness.
You can all tell they'rerelated.
None of the product that theyput out is a bastard of that
(06:00):
child within that family.
Like they all look alike.
Now, the hate that happened forBalenciaga, primarily, I feel
like came from people who stillcan't pronounce it, right?
Like, let's call it what it is.
Because, you know, people arelike, oh, I don't like it.
Balenciaga, blah, blah, blah.
(06:21):
People still want it.
Do you feel like that thechanging of the guard really
mattered to its future success?
Or at the end of the day, theystill make good bags.
Nobody cares.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
I think there's two points to that.
I think if if someone has theability to hate you, you might
find your husband or wife.
So, I mean, that's the testamentto having a point of view.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
Oh my god.
I'm glad no one's eye almostspit on my screen.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
If you're not hateable, you're not lovable.
So I think in the midst of a lotof brands today, they're trying
to be likable.
And because of that, they don'tfind a product or something that
they can position and say, thisis what we are, this is what we
stand for, and this is why youshould invest with us.
And if you don't, that's okay.
And I think the city bag isBalenciaga's bag where it's
like, this is what Balenciaga isto the T.
(07:10):
If you work with Balenciaga fromnow on to the future, you have
to have an iteration that youwant to deploy to customers as
your version of the city bag.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Do you think customers who are more brand
driven, in my opinion, perhapsknow less about the product, but
more obsessed with the brand,the label, the show, like aren't
even aware that so many of thebags aren't even made with real
leather.
It's mostly PU.
Do you think the customer caresas much about what the product
(07:41):
is made of?
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
I don't think they should if they don't.
And that's a very importantthing that I think a lot of
people from different sides offashion industry struggle to
grasp with is that what isvaluable to you don't get to
decide what's valuable to theclient.
Right.
And a lot of times, like formany, for example, people see my
(08:03):
page and they're like, what issome six foot two Nigerian guy
is gonna tell me about handbags?
And I'm like, perfect.
That's great.
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
So much, so much.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
So stick around.
Stick around.
There's people who follow methat don't want to follow me.
I understand.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
If you were if you were five foot two, nothing, but
six foot two, I'm here for it.
I'm here for it.
That to the mood.
To the mood.
I want to talk about your topfives.
How do you determine?
Because there's such anoverwhelming amount of content.
How do you decide like yourrecent top fives?
(08:38):
How do you decide, like, okay,what's relevant?
Like, what's your recent topfives about?
And how do you figure that out?
SPEAKER_00 (08:44):
What I decide is what's relevant is that I'm so
in tune to who I am that thepeople who follow me are
essentially versions of me.
So I know in their brain, it'slike stranger things.
Like I'm already fecina theirscrew it around.
And that's what the great thingabout building a brand is that
everything you say is alreadycoming from the point of view of
(09:04):
people who are already you,hence why they're following you.
So the top fives are so easy.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
So, what was your most recent top five?
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Most recent top five, I think, was a series of
top three affordable.
SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Top three affordable, quiet luxury brands
that will command respect.
And I worded it in a wayspecifically, so it wouldn't be
brands that you don't knowabout, brands that you could
know about, or you don't knowabout, or you do know about that
if you wore, people would stopyou on the street and say, Hey,
what is that bag?
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Right.
Like I think the first one washorse.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah, clementine.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Yep, yep, clementine.
Right, exactly.
Because I was going through itand that's the one that pulled
me in.
And I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
Do you think because I wasrecently, I like to, I call it
retail anthropology.
It's a favorite word of mine.
There is a guy called PacoUnderhill, who is a retail
(09:59):
anthropologist who came up withthat construct of talking about
the why and how we shop, likewhat goes into all of that.
And I was looking at the littlebags, the little French, the
French designer who makes thelittle itty bitty bags.
I'm mortified, I can't rememberright now.
SPEAKER_00 (10:18):
Chakmoose.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I was looking at, I wastalking to the guy who was
there.
He also makes teddy bears therethat are like$250, by the way,
upstairs.
Very lovely guy.
And I was looking at his mini, Ithink it's the Besso bag, the
mini bag, and it looked so muchlike the Louire bag.
(10:42):
It's the same top handle.
So much of that is so similar.
Do you think, like, if someone'sgonna capitalize on a trend, the
overlap of the similaritybetween the customer, the
product, the color.
What is your take on all that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
My take is all product is irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevantis story.
That's all you have in thisworld.
The Bible is a collection ofstories.
Harry Potter is a collection ofstories.
Something really funny aboutthat, that I know you would even
detest this, is that the Telfarshopping bag is just the Kate
Spade bag of the 90s.
(11:21):
It's literally the exact samebag, right?
But what's different is the wayhe proposed it as a story to a
newer group of clients.
So I think that's what reallymatters at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
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Filled with ingenuity, fun, anda hint of steam, Susanna will
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dreams and put in the hard workto get there.
Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, Barnes and Noble, or
(11:53):
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Thanks for your support.
Well, Telfar, much like RandonBlackwood, much like so many
people, had been around forreally, really long time, 10
plus years, and had anopportunity to capitalize on a
tipping point moment.
And I think Telfar is likepeople should study him, should
(12:15):
study what he's done, shouldstudy his marketing.
I think the way he's done it isprobably better than anybody
known to mankind, truly.
Like when he took over theRainbow Shop in Brooklyn under
the train, like I was justwatching that live.
Like I was not there, but I waswatching.
And the thing about that Telfarbag is it is extremely
(12:38):
uncomfortable.
Structurally, it's not good.
The crossbody strap isergonomically incorrect.
It is not a comfortable bag.
People walk with that bag and itflops on them.
Like there was whatever testdrive was there, it's like
nobody cared because of thestory and how the bag was
(12:58):
presented.
And anybody I've seen them, I'mlike, you know, you can make
that strap shorter.
You know, it doesn't need tohang so low on your body.
It doesn't need to whack youevery time you walk.
But because those bags aren'teven made with real leather,
those are bags are PU.
unknown (13:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
But the story and the how and the who, it's just,
it's really, really good.
Do you believe that certaindesigners within that space
perhaps have gotten too big forthemselves within their story?
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
I think they forget their story.
So I think if that's theproposition that we're making
there, I think they do.
But the good thing aboutforgetting your story is that
you could then remember it in adifferent way than you lived it.
Yeah, uh, it's imagine if CarrieBrasshaw could do the same.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Well, if you rewatch Sex in the City, Carrie was a
horrible person.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
But that's the people who watched it fully.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Right, right, right, right.
I now re-watch it for everybodyelse.
I'm like, why are you so mean toSamantha?
She was your friend.
She is literally your only realtrue friend.
And you're mean to her.
I don't know.
Certain friendships.
I would have gotten on that textchain like quick.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
Growing up is realizing Charlotte shouldn't
have gave her the check.
That's that's when you oh that'sthat's when you grow up.
SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
This is so many nuggets of good stuff.
I yeah, I agree.
You don't deserve the check.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
You don't deserve the check.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
You don't deserve the check.
Live smaller.
Jesus Christ.
Oh my gosh.
Wally, this is there's so much.
I want to talk to you a littlebit about the and I'm sure this
is boring.
Well, not to us, but in terms oftrends you're seeing coming out,
because I deal with I deal withpeople from WGSN, I deal with
people from industry, but peoplelike essentially you and I are
(14:44):
of the streets.
We hear the whispers, we seewhat people are talking.
What are the things that peopleare saying that you think?
Because there's a lot oftangible connections between
silhouettes and color, right?
Like if there's a lot of colorcoming out that's bright and
pop, it usually means the marketis bound to be doing well.
(15:04):
If there's more muted, morestructure, that means people are
theoretically tightening theirpurse strings.
They want things in order.
You know, like the bigger thehobo, the better the market
because there's lack oforganization.
It's big, it's oversized.
That's how people are living.
What are you seeing going onthat you think other people
aren't?
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
What I see going on is there's gonna be a very big
rise in this conservative way ofdressing.
And it's already kind of takingit into toll with quiet luxury,
but I think it's gonna take astep further with the idea that
if everything can be purchasedon the resale market that is
(15:44):
oysterous of a brand, we'regoing to buy things that can't
be identified by the secondhandmarket as someone inflating
themselves into that culture ofzeitgeist, if that makes any
sense.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Oh, it totally does.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
Yeah.
So a lot of, I think really,really, really wealthy people
will start to wear couture orsomething that is customized to
that group of people.
So for example, masters golfgear.
I think that's gonna take a hugerise, especially with quarter
zips kind of coming into play,identifying who you are by that
(16:19):
quarter zip and by that emblem,things like that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
So do you think that's gonna have an impact on
logos?
Because much like denim, wherepeople will say wide leg, high
rise, low rise, you canbasically buy anything anywhere,
and nothing really matters otherthan skinny jeans for men are
out, which I've tried to resell,which is another story.
I'll talk to you about thatafter.
(16:42):
But in terms of logos, peoplesay big logos are in, small
logos, understated, overstated.
Everything goes, but we all knowwhat's the real deal.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
As I said previously, I think what's in
and will always be in is havingan opinion.
Because now we have the abilityto tap into so many different
markets at one time.
Before it was, hey, retailerstold you what was in, and they
partnered with celebrities, andthose celebrities partnered with
runway shows to tell you whatwas going on.
(17:12):
Now there's so many niche groupsof people that if you're not
tapped into yourself, you're notgoing to find your niche and
you're just gonna be sittinghere in La La Land.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Yep.
You know, it's all aboutcommunity.
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
It's all about community.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Without having a community, you have nobody.
And I think, you know, if 80% ofthe business is controlled by
20% of your customer, I feellike, and also customer
acquisition costs are so high.
What I teach my students isthink of how much you can do
without spending money onadvertising, because you have to
(17:48):
be clever, you have to be out ofthe box, you have to be Blair
Witch about this.
You know, you have to have thestreet and the hustle.
I'm like, what is my uniqueselling point to doing something
to an existing silhouette thathasn't been done?
Right.
And I think I agree with youthat because the circular market
(18:08):
is so popular and people are socomfortable buying something on
Depop before they shop atretail, that you better make
sure that whatever you'recreating has some solid DNA in
order to make sure you standout.
Do you follow independentdesigners?
I hate the word emerging.
It's a no-no for me.
(18:29):
I don't like that becauseindependent designers are
designers that are notessentially commercially known.
Emerging makes it sound like alike a training bra.
Like you nobody needs to be.
Like once you've created, youput out a bag, you've sold it,
like you're a brand, the end.
What kind of brand is always upfor discussion.
(18:49):
I I follow independentdesigners, obviously.
That's what I do, but alsothere's usually a life cycle in
terms of knowing how to deliveron time and knowing how to
price, because pricing is alwaysa challenge, as I'm sure you've
seen that.
A lot of smaller brands walk insaying I'm luxury.
And it's like you're not luxury,your bag is overpriced because
(19:12):
you don't know how to price yourproduct correctly.
So you can make a profit.
What are some brands that youthink that you're watching that
you think, okay, I think Igotta, I gotta see what's gonna
happen?
SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
Brands that I think that about.
I, you know, interesting you saythat because emerging is such a
vast category.
A brand that I'm actuallywatching that I think has the
ability to truly scale is coach.
I know that sounds really supercrazy.
SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
It does not.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
And it does not, right?
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Coach is the antithesis of what remembering
your story is about.
Going back to why you started inthe first place.
Because once again, we all knowcoach had the outlets, people
felt the ick about coach, it washad this era of Just not knowing
where it was and retelling theirstory allowed them to become a
(20:06):
much more valuable brand in 2025than they were in 2016.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
Well, I was I had a cell phone call with the
president uh while he was on hisway, and he was saying that they
are so tapped in to their17-year-old customer because she
is typically a junior in highschool.
She is still solidifying, shestill is an influencer in her
(20:33):
own right, which is part of thereason why they added coffee
into their outlets because itincreases the shopping, it
increases them keeping them inthe stores.
So everything they're doing isso laser focused on who their
customer is.
But I don't believe thatcustomer really gives a shit
(20:53):
about the husband and wife whostarted that and that it was
made out of a baseball mitt.
Because the pre-Sara Lee bags,you will still find at any
vintage show because those bagsstill like with the with the
piping and the same twist lockand the same very long crossbody
strap, or those very, very likemasculine, very heavy computer
(21:17):
bags, or you know, I I don'tknow if those speak to the
customer, but I feel like theyhave so much that they can work
with.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
True, true.
But the reason I say thatthey're on the up is because
they've decided they don't getto control the story that the
person who buys a bag tellstheir friends.
Instead, they get to control thenarrative of what they present
to the world, and they canchoose from that point.
So once you get a coach bag,you'll be like, man, this is
actually like pretty goodquality for the price I paid.
(21:49):
Blah blah blah blah.
But you don't need to know theorigin story of coach because
that isn't why you bought a bagin the first place.
I mean, that's sure it'd beinteresting for us to know,
right?
For for us is the in.
But like I was telling one of myfriends the other day, 99% of
people who go to basketballgames do not know more than the
person that's on the basketballcourt.
But they support the industrythat allows it to exist.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
I'm into it.
Are there other any other brandsthat you have your eye on?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Another brand that I have.
Hmm.
A brand that I think in the andI don't because I don't
necessarily look at brands thatare up and coming simply for the
fact that it may cloud myjudgment on why I think this
brand would be valuable to thepeople that follow me.
So I would say a brand that'salready established that has the
(22:37):
opportunity to turn to anotherlevel, will they?
That's a whole nother discussionfor another day.
Right?
It's it's a difficult thing todo.
I think Saint Laurent.
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
Oh, you're you're talking big brands.
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
I'm talking big brands.
We're talking big.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
You're talking big brands.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Big brands.
But I I think they have theability to really rediscover
themselves post this I don'tknow, with the new creator
director and the way he's reallyrecalibrating the point of view
from Saint Laurent, I think theyhave the ability to take that
next step, especially for curingwith their whole restructuring
thing going on.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
So do you think customers now, because there's
been so much change, like we wewere talking about how Gen Z is
so like screaming from therooftops, like sustainability,
all of that.
But the reality is like they areshe and up.
Do you think this is a smoke andmirror thing?
(23:34):
Like, do you think people stillcare about who is making their
product?
Like if it's women made, if it'sblack owned, if it's Latin
owned, do you think, or is thatbecause at the end of the day,
you gotta make a nice product,right?
It's the product and the pricethat's gonna draw you in.
It's the story that's what'sgonna keep you there.
(23:55):
Because you still have to say,like, does this work for me?
Like, will this does thisconnect with me?
Do you think people care asmuch?
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
I think we should listen to what people there's a
quote.
Never listen to what people say,but just just see what they do.
Right.
And I think so so many times alot of designers, founders, they
listen to too much of the chanceof the crowd and not the people
who are actually the decisionmakers of what they want to do.
(24:26):
So for example, there was a timewhere I used to listen to people
and they were like, hey, talkabout the like top three most
sustainable brands that aren'tusing like leather.
And I'm like, yeah, totally.
And like, and I say this brand,they're like, I'm not paying$200
for a bag.
I was like, all right, well,this category can't grow if
people believe that it's notvaluable.
So I think a lot of the timesfounders need to market towards
(24:48):
people who are willing to makethe change.
And I think that's a differentapproach than being a woman-led
founder or being a black-ownedbusiness.
Yeah.
People who are inviting changeinto their life.
And then they'll they'll bewilling to pay whatever price
point you can justify.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
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didn't know where to start, thisis for you.
If you had dreams of becoming ahandbag designer but aren't
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this is for you.
I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbagdesigner expert and handbag
fairy godmother, and this is thehandbag designer 101
(25:28):
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(25:48):
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(26:33):
today.
I feel like those things,women-owned, I feel like all of
those are much more becausethere's such insane need to pump
(26:53):
out content, right?
Like you can almost pinpoint itfrom holiday season to whatever
month that's going.
That okay, so this month we'regonna get the top 10 designers
from this, or these are the top10 sustainable designers, but
these are all things that medianeeds.
(27:16):
I don't so much believe thecustomer cares as much,
especially for the people wespeak about.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yeah.
And ultimately, the liars needspeed, the truth will always
remain constant.
SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
God, you're like, you should rename your thing
like handbag pastor.
I'm so in, I'm not even joking.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Like but truly, if you are a liar, it's very it's
imperative that you tell yourlie really, really fast, right?
So if you believe that thisbrand is only valuable because
of this one proposition, you'regoing to hammer it as fast as
you can.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:53):
But if you're creating a brand that's going to
be about true sustainability,you're willing to take the long
road because you know the truthwill always remain constant.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Do you believe in terms of price sensitivity of
the affordable luxury brands orthe quiet luxury brands you're
speaking about?
What do you see like the sweetspot for those particular bags
would be?
SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
It all depends on the founder.
Your price is only a reflectionof the satisfaction that you
believe you can deliver yourcustomer.
So if you're pricing yourproduct at a lower price point,
customers cannot feel a higherlevel of satisfaction by
purchasing that product becausethey've taken a lower amount of
investment to make it happen.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Do you really think so?
SPEAKER_00 (28:40):
I genuinely do believe that, which is why it's
very important if you havesomething that's on sale, that
they know the original price.
Because that's the enjoymentthat they will receive when
purchasing a product that's onsale.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
So you believe it's a transitive property that A
must equal C, that what I amspending on a bag, if it's
between five and seven hundreddollars, that that bag is then
commensurate with the value thatpeople see, as opposed to
getting a bag that's$250, thatthey would not see it as as
(29:17):
valuable or as important.
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
Yeah.
So for example, I I think I wishsomeone could collect data on
this.
It's probably not it's notpossible.
The amount of Birkin bags thatnever see the light of day is
probably 40%.
That once they're purchased,they stay in that exact box in
your closet and never go out tosee sunlight.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
You know, there was a Birkin fund that was just
started.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
And wouldn't surprise me, my my finance
friend sent me that.
And I was like, when it gets toyou, that means it's time for me
to to rug pull, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
I just spoke to the founder.
I'm gonna be having her on.
I messaged her immediately.
I'm like, you know, I've beentalking about this for a long
time.
If I could have done it, I wouldhave done it.
And she's like, yep.
And the story is so interesting.
Like, you know, who's sellingthe why?
Like, oh yeah, of course, a funbuilt on Birkins.
(30:13):
Like, yes, it tracks, it justtracks.
It's so funny.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Yeah.
Peanut butter plus jelly makes agood sandwich, right?
But the people who buy thosebags, they buy it as an
opportunity to reflect tothemselves that I'm worthy of
purchasing this product.
And that that why is a hundredthousand times more valuable
than the why of purchasing aJordan$50 bag.
(30:39):
Because that why gives them thejustification for the rest of
their life of everything thatthey possibly could do.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
I mean, I firmly believe, like within the
partnerships that I've worked,that for me to collect a check
for 50 grand on a partnershipthat I've done had always been
10 times easier than for me tocollect a check for 500.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
And I always found that to be like, why are you
making me work so hard?
You know, like servicesrendered, payment due, let's do
this.
And the 50 grand check, it'slike, come pick it up.
Okay.
So I think that's an interestingtake.
In terms of, I'm just curiousbecause this is like one of my
things I love to talk about, tophandles.
(31:25):
Like if we're gonna talk abouthand, I mean, honestly, Wally,
like we're gonna be in troublebecause I I keep checking the
time because I'm like, let'stalk about this, let's talk
about that.
What are your thoughts on thetrend on the current top handle
right now?
I know this is random, but it'snot for me.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
So enlighten me on this trend because I may be I
may be out of the loop here.
So, what is the top handle trendhere?
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
Like the top handle of a bag.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (31:49):
Like in terms of long, short, skinny, rounded,
flat, the whole thing.
Because all of that, a lot oftimes the top handle ends up
becoming more ornamental.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
Yes.
Yeah, because you're you'reyeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
And unless you see her wearing it in the cruck of
her arm, the top handle is neverused because then you need to
have a crossbody strap that atleast it could go over your
shoulder.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Right.
So, hmm.
You know what's top handle I dolike though, now that we're
bringing it up.
Many brands use it, but it's tophandle where it's like if you
pull it, it stretches out.
But when you let it go, it laysflat.
Like okay.
I don't know if you've seen Ido.
SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Those I love.
Those I love because it's likeit's almost like a two in one.
You can clutch it up if you needto.
But who's wearing bags on theirforearms in 2025?
They need Margo bags, which iswhy it's one of them I could,
yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
Margot bags.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
So I know now I've seed planted and I'm I'm gonna
take full ownership because Iknow you're gonna do a do a top
three slash five on top handles.
SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
Top handles, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:57):
And I'm now you're gonna pay attention to it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
I want to tag you on it as I yes, please.
Well, have you seen the tophandle for the new Chanel the
giraffe bags and those?
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
What do you what are your thoughts on those?
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
You know, it's funny because I was watching uh I
think item novelty is needednow.
Right.
I believed post-COVID that andI'm a big handbag history
person, like big.
(33:33):
I like uh am my own self-madehandbag historian because
history repeats itself, it'sbound to post-Spanish flu.
The trends became the bagsbecame small, they became
ornate, they became sparkly, thestraps were really, really long,
people were wearing them ontheir shoulders, and then people
(33:55):
were poor.
They were dead ass poor.
So it was like you got bothsides, and then it became very
clear that that's where we wereheaded.
And I think every single brandyou see that goes down the
runway now will make sure theyhave at least one silhouette
that's novelty.
(34:17):
And that will be the bag thatpeople will talk.
I mean, look about the coachoversized the clutch.
I forgot whatever thesilhouette's name was, but you
know, with the twist lock,that's lock.
Oh, yeah, exactly.
But everyone's gonna need thatbecause that's the one that
everyone's gonna talk about.
That's the story.
You will see people wearing it.
(34:38):
I can promise you you will beseeing knockoffs of it.
It might not be a giraffe, itwill be a different animal.
But if you type that in, it'slike it was the most covered
product of their entire line.
So novelty brings joy.
And the problem actually wasmany, many years ago when Betsy
(35:01):
Johnson was acquired by SteveMadden, that Betsy Johnson's
bags are novelty, right?
You can still find them.
They're really, really, reallyexpensive to make.
And sometimes when that happens,the price is not commensurate
with the customer.
So typically the brands will bebreaking even when they sell
(35:24):
them because they the bag can'tbe that much more expensive than
the rest of the collection.
Chanel can get away with doingthat, but those bags are high
labor, high detail.
So I believe you'll see it, butI believe you'll also see it on
the circular market by this timenext year.
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
For sure.
Because it came, it'll have amoment, and it it's and it went.
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
True.
Which to your point and to whatyou're saying earlier, which is
why I think it's very importantto always present present
yourself as valuable, because ifsomeone finds you valuable and
you presented yourself as notvaluable, that's the only arena
they'll allow you to exist in.
unknown (36:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:04):
So I don't know if you saw this guy in New York
City who makes his own handbags.
He has that uh he goes and so.
Is that is that the guy's name?
I I don't know.
He's like this black designer.
Oh.
And he he sells them out ofthis, like uh, but since he
makes his own handbags, he sellsthem for like 200 to like 200 to
like 400 max, and he's beenselling out in New York City,
(36:27):
makes his own handbags.
And the thing now is like if heever does anything that because
it's labor intensive for him, Imust assume, to make all these
handbags, but he started off atsuch a price point that doesn't
give him the ability to maneuverthe business.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
No, I mean, so many of these designers.
I mean, uh look, I I have asection at a trade show which I
want you to come visit at NewYork now, February 1st through
3rd, called the It Bag, where wecurate and find independent
designers from across the globeto sell their product.
There are so many of them whodon't know how to price their
products correctly.
(37:04):
So they're priced for D2Cbecause they don't need to pay
so much attention to the marginsbecause it's this, but for them
to sell it wholesale, it's amess because they just don't get
it.
They're not doing it right.
So someone might sell out, butare they really making money?
It's all relative.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
Right.
It begs the question.
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
What is more I can't think I can't, I don't know the
designer.
You have to let me know.
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
Yeah, I'll shoot you a DM of who he is.
But okay it begs the question ofwhich we talked about very early
in the show, is selling luxuryisn't sustainable because you
need to weed people out to thentruly understand your value
proposition.
SPEAKER_01 (37:47):
Yep.
Yep, exactly.
Exactly.
Wally, I could hold you captive.
I'm very excited we areconnected because you are we're
gonna be doing this.
We're gonna be doing the walletcheck-in.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Yeah, no, I'm very excited about this.
I think this is great.
I love finding people who arelike-minded and can just talk
about this.
I I hope you enjoyed thisbecause this is so my jam.
I could do this, like we couldkeep talking for three hours and
I wouldn't even notice.
Like this is gonna go up anddown.
I'm so into it.
I'm calling you past yourhandbag.
That's it.
(38:22):
If I'm the handbag fairygodmother, you're the pastor
because you are wielding theseone-liners that I think everyone
should know and hear.
I'm I'm here for it.
How can we find you, follow you,and hear more of your great top
three, top five, and everythingelse?
SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
Yeah, totally.
If you're younger, Gen X orolder, millennial, you can find
me at style by wale, s-t-y-l-e,b-y, w a l e.
If you're Gen Z, don't worry,you don't need to find me.
You'll find me when you get tothat age.
But that's where you can find meon Instagram and uh TikTok.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Okay.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We're gonna have you back forsure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
Can't wait.
SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at handbag designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
All product is irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevantis story.
That's all you have in thisworld.
The Bible is a collection ofstories.
Harry Potter is a collection ofstories.
Something really funny aboutthat, that I know you would even
detest this, is that the Telfarshopping bag is just the Kate
Spade bag of the 90s.
(00:20):
It's literally the exact samebag, right?
But what's different is the wayhe proposed it as a story to a
newer group of clients.
So I think that's what reallymatters at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert, and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love,
from the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(00:52):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Wale Sani, MillennialProduct Specialist,
Extraordinaire to HandbagDesigner101, the podcast.
Welcome, welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Yeah, when I messaged you, you're like, I
follow you.
And I, you know, not to soundold and giddy, I was like, ooh,
that's cool.
I feel famous now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
Yes, yes, indeed.
Well, that's that's how I feltwhen you responded.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
So Aw bless.
So let's dive in right to it.
So I'm smitten with yourcountdowns.
When you started doing this,because obviously, as you said,
it's been a minute.
What drew you into thinking,like, okay, hold on.
If there's anybody who's goingto be an expert on handbags
within the space, it's me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
The only reason I even came into that space is
because I felt I wasn't one.
And I accepted that as my fate.
And as I grew, I learned fromthe people that followed me.
I would message them and say,hey, what did you like?
What did you not like?
Give me the exact reasons why.
And that's how I grew to be theproduct specialist that I am
now.
It's not my thoughts, it's thethoughts of people that I have
(02:08):
worked with along the years.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Wow.
So because I was going through,you have a lot of thoughts and a
lot of opinions.
So, and like how designs andbrands have gone upside down and
aren't following like what theirtrue self is.
Because I want to get right intothis because most people that I
have on, we have to be verypolitical.
(02:31):
There's a publicist hangingback.
I can't.
It's it's you know, I know, Iknow, I know.
For anybody who's watching onYouTube, like the facial
expressions we're exchanging.
It's like, girl, come on.
What are the brands right nowthat you think are being truly
authentic to their customer?
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
That is a fantastic question.
And I want to answer it with theshining obvious answer is the
row.
I think what they're doing is acase study of how luxury isn't
scalable.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
It is not scaled.
And the moment you try to scaleit is when you ruin everyone who
is actually a very valuableclient to the product that
you're selling.
So in recent years, the row istrying to figure out how do we
eliminate people to our brand asfast as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
That are not worthy of buying us.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
Yes, that are not aligned to our mission
statement.
I don't know if you've seenrecently, but the number one
client of the row recentlypublished this letter where
she's saying, you know, I feellike the row isn't me anymore.
They've taken it to a directionthat I wasn't a fan of.
And the role's response isthat's great.
We have other people in line.
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
Yeah, like don't buy us.
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
There's Kate down the street.
Please go check that out.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
Kate's good.
It's good.
Yeah, it's funny because onceyou hear the Margot bag crossing
over, like I was listening to asnarky podcast, and the
podcaster was saying who's gay,and he's like, I need to get my
daughter, who was eight, a miniMarg bag.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, we'vereally gone there.
Do you think though that perhapspart of the Rose success is the
(04:13):
fact that they are not so much aheritage brand and therefore
there isn't so much of theirproduct flooded on the circular
market?
Like, I think there's got to bea connection to that because
less have been produced over theyears.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
The real correlation between their success is
actually what makes Gen Z sointerested in the row, is that
it's it's a founder-led brand.
unknown (04:39):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
So essentially to Gen Z, it's being positioned to
them the same way that theywould see uh the way Kate Spade
was too.
What Kate Spade was to, youknow, millennial.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
To my to my group of people.
But they see it the same wayHaley Bieber sees Rhode and the
same way they see the founder.
And with the founder's lifestory being aligned to the way
that they see luxury witharchival, with the cates being
so historic in that sense, itgives them the opportunity to
(05:12):
feel like they are them whenthey buy the product.
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
So, yes.
Okay, so next, I feel like we'regonna be doing the ABCs here.
So Balanciaga, Balanciaga isprobably one of my most favorite
brands to talk about onlybecause of the motorcycle slash
city bag.
And to me, that's a case studyof how to understand a hero bag,
(05:36):
understand what you know is thebag and a product that you know
your customer really resonateswith, and how to maximize on it
on a familial level, right?
Like the iterations, it's a bigand a little, it's a mini,
everything still has like it allcarries that same likeness.
You can all tell they'rerelated.
None of the product that theyput out is a bastard of that
(06:00):
child within that family.
Like they all look alike.
Now, the hate that happened forBalenciaga, primarily, I feel
like came from people who stillcan't pronounce it, right?
Like, let's call it what it is.
Because, you know, people arelike, oh, I don't like it.
Balenciaga, blah, blah, blah.
(06:21):
People still want it.
Do you feel like that thechanging of the guard really
mattered to its future success?
Or at the end of the day, theystill make good bags.
Nobody cares.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
I think there's two points to that.
I think if if someone has theability to hate you, you might
find your husband or wife.
So, I mean, that's the testamentto having a point of view.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
Oh my god.
I'm glad no one's eye almostspit on my screen.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
If you're not hateable, you're not lovable.
So I think in the midst of a lotof brands today, they're trying
to be likable.
And because of that, they don'tfind a product or something that
they can position and say, thisis what we are, this is what we
stand for, and this is why youshould invest with us.
And if you don't, that's okay.
And I think the city bag isBalenciaga's bag where it's
like, this is what Balenciaga isto the T.
(07:10):
If you work with Balenciaga fromnow on to the future, you have
to have an iteration that youwant to deploy to customers as
your version of the city bag.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Do you think customers who are more brand
driven, in my opinion, perhapsknow less about the product, but
more obsessed with the brand,the label, the show, like aren't
even aware that so many of thebags aren't even made with real
leather.
It's mostly PU.
Do you think the customer caresas much about what the product
(07:41):
is made of?
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
I don't think they should if they don't.
And that's a very importantthing that I think a lot of
people from different sides offashion industry struggle to
grasp with is that what isvaluable to you don't get to
decide what's valuable to theclient.
Right.
And a lot of times, like formany, for example, people see my
(08:03):
page and they're like, what issome six foot two Nigerian guy
is gonna tell me about handbags?
And I'm like, perfect.
That's great.
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
So much, so much.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
So stick around.
Stick around.
There's people who follow methat don't want to follow me.
I understand.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
If you were if you were five foot two, nothing, but
six foot two, I'm here for it.
I'm here for it.
That to the mood.
To the mood.
I want to talk about your topfives.
How do you determine?
Because there's such anoverwhelming amount of content.
How do you decide like yourrecent top fives?
(08:38):
How do you decide, like, okay,what's relevant?
Like, what's your recent topfives about?
And how do you figure that out?
SPEAKER_00 (08:44):
What I decide is what's relevant is that I'm so
in tune to who I am that thepeople who follow me are
essentially versions of me.
So I know in their brain, it'slike stranger things.
Like I'm already fecina theirscrew it around.
And that's what the great thingabout building a brand is that
everything you say is alreadycoming from the point of view of
(09:04):
people who are already you,hence why they're following you.
So the top fives are so easy.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
So, what was your most recent top five?
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Most recent top five, I think, was a series of
top three affordable.
SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Top three affordable, quiet luxury brands
that will command respect.
And I worded it in a wayspecifically, so it wouldn't be
brands that you don't knowabout, brands that you could
know about, or you don't knowabout, or you do know about that
if you wore, people would stopyou on the street and say, Hey,
what is that bag?
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Right.
Like I think the first one washorse.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah, clementine.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Yep, yep, clementine.
Right, exactly.
Because I was going through itand that's the one that pulled
me in.
And I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
Do you think because I wasrecently, I like to, I call it
retail anthropology.
It's a favorite word of mine.
There is a guy called PacoUnderhill, who is a retail
(09:59):
anthropologist who came up withthat construct of talking about
the why and how we shop, likewhat goes into all of that.
And I was looking at the littlebags, the little French, the
French designer who makes thelittle itty bitty bags.
I'm mortified, I can't rememberright now.
SPEAKER_00 (10:18):
Chakmoose.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I was looking at, I wastalking to the guy who was
there.
He also makes teddy bears therethat are like$250, by the way,
upstairs.
Very lovely guy.
And I was looking at his mini, Ithink it's the Besso bag, the
mini bag, and it looked so muchlike the Louire bag.
(10:42):
It's the same top handle.
So much of that is so similar.
Do you think, like, if someone'sgonna capitalize on a trend, the
overlap of the similaritybetween the customer, the
product, the color.
What is your take on all that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
My take is all product is irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevantis story.
That's all you have in thisworld.
The Bible is a collection ofstories.
Harry Potter is a collection ofstories.
Something really funny aboutthat, that I know you would even
detest this, is that the Telfarshopping bag is just the Kate
Spade bag of the 90s.
(11:21):
It's literally the exact samebag, right?
But what's different is the wayhe proposed it as a story to a
newer group of clients.
So I think that's what reallymatters at the end of the day.
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(11:53):
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Well, Telfar, much like RandonBlackwood, much like so many
people, had been around forreally, really long time, 10
plus years, and had anopportunity to capitalize on a
tipping point moment.
And I think Telfar is likepeople should study him, should
(12:15):
study what he's done, shouldstudy his marketing.
I think the way he's done it isprobably better than anybody
known to mankind, truly.
Like when he took over theRainbow Shop in Brooklyn under
the train, like I was justwatching that live.
Like I was not there, but I waswatching.
And the thing about that Telfarbag is it is extremely
(12:38):
uncomfortable.
Structurally, it's not good.
The crossbody strap isergonomically incorrect.
It is not a comfortable bag.
People walk with that bag and itflops on them.
Like there was whatever testdrive was there, it's like
nobody cared because of thestory and how the bag was
(12:58):
presented.
And anybody I've seen them, I'mlike, you know, you can make
that strap shorter.
You know, it doesn't need tohang so low on your body.
It doesn't need to whack youevery time you walk.
But because those bags aren'teven made with real leather,
those are bags are PU.
unknown (13:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
But the story and the how and the who, it's just,
it's really, really good.
Do you believe that certaindesigners within that space
perhaps have gotten too big forthemselves within their story?
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
I think they forget their story.
So I think if that's theproposition that we're making
there, I think they do.
But the good thing aboutforgetting your story is that
you could then remember it in adifferent way than you lived it.
Yeah, uh, it's imagine if CarrieBrasshaw could do the same.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Well, if you rewatch Sex in the City, Carrie was a
horrible person.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
But that's the people who watched it fully.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Right, right, right, right.
I now re-watch it for everybodyelse.
I'm like, why are you so mean toSamantha?
She was your friend.
She is literally your only realtrue friend.
And you're mean to her.
I don't know.
Certain friendships.
I would have gotten on that textchain like quick.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
Growing up is realizing Charlotte shouldn't
have gave her the check.
That's that's when you oh that'sthat's when you grow up.
SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
This is so many nuggets of good stuff.
I yeah, I agree.
You don't deserve the check.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
You don't deserve the check.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
You don't deserve the check.
Live smaller.
Jesus Christ.
Oh my gosh.
Wally, this is there's so much.
I want to talk to you a littlebit about the and I'm sure this
is boring.
Well, not to us, but in terms oftrends you're seeing coming out,
because I deal with I deal withpeople from WGSN, I deal with
people from industry, but peoplelike essentially you and I are
(14:44):
of the streets.
We hear the whispers, we seewhat people are talking.
What are the things that peopleare saying that you think?
Because there's a lot oftangible connections between
silhouettes and color, right?
Like if there's a lot of colorcoming out that's bright and
pop, it usually means the marketis bound to be doing well.
(15:04):
If there's more muted, morestructure, that means people are
theoretically tightening theirpurse strings.
They want things in order.
You know, like the bigger thehobo, the better the market
because there's lack oforganization.
It's big, it's oversized.
That's how people are living.
What are you seeing going onthat you think other people
aren't?
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
What I see going on is there's gonna be a very big
rise in this conservative way ofdressing.
And it's already kind of takingit into toll with quiet luxury,
but I think it's gonna take astep further with the idea that
if everything can be purchasedon the resale market that is
(15:44):
oysterous of a brand, we'regoing to buy things that can't
be identified by the secondhandmarket as someone inflating
themselves into that culture ofzeitgeist, if that makes any
sense.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Oh, it totally does.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
Yeah.
So a lot of, I think really,really, really wealthy people
will start to wear couture orsomething that is customized to
that group of people.
So for example, masters golfgear.
I think that's gonna take a hugerise, especially with quarter
zips kind of coming into play,identifying who you are by that
(16:19):
quarter zip and by that emblem,things like that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
So do you think that's gonna have an impact on
logos?
Because much like denim, wherepeople will say wide leg, high
rise, low rise, you canbasically buy anything anywhere,
and nothing really matters otherthan skinny jeans for men are
out, which I've tried to resell,which is another story.
I'll talk to you about thatafter.
(16:42):
But in terms of logos, peoplesay big logos are in, small
logos, understated, overstated.
Everything goes, but we all knowwhat's the real deal.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
As I said previously, I think what's in
and will always be in is havingan opinion.
Because now we have the abilityto tap into so many different
markets at one time.
Before it was, hey, retailerstold you what was in, and they
partnered with celebrities, andthose celebrities partnered with
runway shows to tell you whatwas going on.
(17:12):
Now there's so many niche groupsof people that if you're not
tapped into yourself, you're notgoing to find your niche and
you're just gonna be sittinghere in La La Land.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Yep.
You know, it's all aboutcommunity.
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
It's all about community.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Without having a community, you have nobody.
And I think, you know, if 80% ofthe business is controlled by
20% of your customer, I feellike, and also customer
acquisition costs are so high.
What I teach my students isthink of how much you can do
without spending money onadvertising, because you have to
(17:48):
be clever, you have to be out ofthe box, you have to be Blair
Witch about this.
You know, you have to have thestreet and the hustle.
I'm like, what is my uniqueselling point to doing something
to an existing silhouette thathasn't been done?
Right.
And I think I agree with youthat because the circular market
(18:08):
is so popular and people are socomfortable buying something on
Depop before they shop atretail, that you better make
sure that whatever you'recreating has some solid DNA in
order to make sure you standout.
Do you follow independentdesigners?
I hate the word emerging.
It's a no-no for me.
(18:29):
I don't like that becauseindependent designers are
designers that are notessentially commercially known.
Emerging makes it sound like alike a training bra.
Like you nobody needs to be.
Like once you've created, youput out a bag, you've sold it,
like you're a brand, the end.
What kind of brand is always upfor discussion.
(18:49):
I I follow independentdesigners, obviously.
That's what I do, but alsothere's usually a life cycle in
terms of knowing how to deliveron time and knowing how to
price, because pricing is alwaysa challenge, as I'm sure you've
seen that.
A lot of smaller brands walk insaying I'm luxury.
And it's like you're not luxury,your bag is overpriced because
(19:12):
you don't know how to price yourproduct correctly.
So you can make a profit.
What are some brands that youthink that you're watching that
you think, okay, I think Igotta, I gotta see what's gonna
happen?
SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
Brands that I think that about.
I, you know, interesting you saythat because emerging is such a
vast category.
A brand that I'm actuallywatching that I think has the
ability to truly scale is coach.
I know that sounds really supercrazy.
SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
It does not.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
And it does not, right?
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Coach is the antithesis of what remembering
your story is about.
Going back to why you started inthe first place.
Because once again, we all knowcoach had the outlets, people
felt the ick about coach, it washad this era of Just not knowing
where it was and retelling theirstory allowed them to become a
(20:06):
much more valuable brand in 2025than they were in 2016.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
Well, I was I had a cell phone call with the
president uh while he was on hisway, and he was saying that they
are so tapped in to their17-year-old customer because she
is typically a junior in highschool.
She is still solidifying, shestill is an influencer in her
(20:33):
own right, which is part of thereason why they added coffee
into their outlets because itincreases the shopping, it
increases them keeping them inthe stores.
So everything they're doing isso laser focused on who their
customer is.
But I don't believe thatcustomer really gives a shit
(20:53):
about the husband and wife whostarted that and that it was
made out of a baseball mitt.
Because the pre-Sara Lee bags,you will still find at any
vintage show because those bagsstill like with the with the
piping and the same twist lockand the same very long crossbody
strap, or those very, very likemasculine, very heavy computer
(21:17):
bags, or you know, I I don'tknow if those speak to the
customer, but I feel like theyhave so much that they can work
with.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
True, true.
But the reason I say thatthey're on the up is because
they've decided they don't getto control the story that the
person who buys a bag tellstheir friends.
Instead, they get to control thenarrative of what they present
to the world, and they canchoose from that point.
So once you get a coach bag,you'll be like, man, this is
actually like pretty goodquality for the price I paid.
(21:49):
Blah blah blah blah.
But you don't need to know theorigin story of coach because
that isn't why you bought a bagin the first place.
I mean, that's sure it'd beinteresting for us to know,
right?
For for us is the in.
But like I was telling one of myfriends the other day, 99% of
people who go to basketballgames do not know more than the
person that's on the basketballcourt.
But they support the industrythat allows it to exist.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
I'm into it.
Are there other any other brandsthat you have your eye on?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Another brand that I have.
Hmm.
A brand that I think in the andI don't because I don't
necessarily look at brands thatare up and coming simply for the
fact that it may cloud myjudgment on why I think this
brand would be valuable to thepeople that follow me.
So I would say a brand that'salready established that has the
(22:37):
opportunity to turn to anotherlevel, will they?
That's a whole nother discussionfor another day.
Right?
It's it's a difficult thing todo.
I think Saint Laurent.
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
Oh, you're you're talking big brands.
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
I'm talking big brands.
We're talking big.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
You're talking big brands.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Big brands.
But I I think they have theability to really rediscover
themselves post this I don'tknow, with the new creator
director and the way he's reallyrecalibrating the point of view
from Saint Laurent, I think theyhave the ability to take that
next step, especially for curingwith their whole restructuring
thing going on.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
So do you think customers now, because there's
been so much change, like we wewere talking about how Gen Z is
so like screaming from therooftops, like sustainability,
all of that.
But the reality is like they areshe and up.
Do you think this is a smoke andmirror thing?
(23:34):
Like, do you think people stillcare about who is making their
product?
Like if it's women made, if it'sblack owned, if it's Latin
owned, do you think, or is thatbecause at the end of the day,
you gotta make a nice product,right?
It's the product and the pricethat's gonna draw you in.
It's the story that's what'sgonna keep you there.
(23:55):
Because you still have to say,like, does this work for me?
Like, will this does thisconnect with me?
Do you think people care asmuch?
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
I think we should listen to what people there's a
quote.
Never listen to what people say,but just just see what they do.
Right.
And I think so so many times alot of designers, founders, they
listen to too much of the chanceof the crowd and not the people
who are actually the decisionmakers of what they want to do.
(24:26):
So for example, there was a timewhere I used to listen to people
and they were like, hey, talkabout the like top three most
sustainable brands that aren'tusing like leather.
And I'm like, yeah, totally.
And like, and I say this brand,they're like, I'm not paying$200
for a bag.
I was like, all right, well,this category can't grow if
people believe that it's notvaluable.
So I think a lot of the timesfounders need to market towards
(24:48):
people who are willing to makethe change.
And I think that's a differentapproach than being a woman-led
founder or being a black-ownedbusiness.
Yeah.
People who are inviting changeinto their life.
And then they'll they'll bewilling to pay whatever price
point you can justify.
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today.
I feel like those things,women-owned, I feel like all of
those are much more becausethere's such insane need to pump
(26:53):
out content, right?
Like you can almost pinpoint itfrom holiday season to whatever
month that's going.
That okay, so this month we'regonna get the top 10 designers
from this, or these are the top10 sustainable designers, but
these are all things that medianeeds.
(27:16):
I don't so much believe thecustomer cares as much,
especially for the people wespeak about.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yeah.
And ultimately, the liars needspeed, the truth will always
remain constant.
SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
God, you're like, you should rename your thing
like handbag pastor.
I'm so in, I'm not even joking.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Like but truly, if you are a liar, it's very it's
imperative that you tell yourlie really, really fast, right?
So if you believe that thisbrand is only valuable because
of this one proposition, you'regoing to hammer it as fast as
you can.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:53):
But if you're creating a brand that's going to
be about true sustainability,you're willing to take the long
road because you know the truthwill always remain constant.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Do you believe in terms of price sensitivity of
the affordable luxury brands orthe quiet luxury brands you're
speaking about?
What do you see like the sweetspot for those particular bags
would be?
SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
It all depends on the founder.
Your price is only a reflectionof the satisfaction that you
believe you can deliver yourcustomer.
So if you're pricing yourproduct at a lower price point,
customers cannot feel a higherlevel of satisfaction by
purchasing that product becausethey've taken a lower amount of
investment to make it happen.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Do you really think so?
SPEAKER_00 (28:40):
I genuinely do believe that, which is why it's
very important if you havesomething that's on sale, that
they know the original price.
Because that's the enjoymentthat they will receive when
purchasing a product that's onsale.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
So you believe it's a transitive property that A
must equal C, that what I amspending on a bag, if it's
between five and seven hundreddollars, that that bag is then
commensurate with the value thatpeople see, as opposed to
getting a bag that's$250, thatthey would not see it as as
(29:17):
valuable or as important.
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
Yeah.
So for example, I I think I wishsomeone could collect data on
this.
It's probably not it's notpossible.
The amount of Birkin bags thatnever see the light of day is
probably 40%.
That once they're purchased,they stay in that exact box in
your closet and never go out tosee sunlight.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
You know, there was a Birkin fund that was just
started.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
And wouldn't surprise me, my my finance
friend sent me that.
And I was like, when it gets toyou, that means it's time for me
to to rug pull, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
I just spoke to the founder.
I'm gonna be having her on.
I messaged her immediately.
I'm like, you know, I've beentalking about this for a long
time.
If I could have done it, I wouldhave done it.
And she's like, yep.
And the story is so interesting.
Like, you know, who's sellingthe why?
Like, oh yeah, of course, a funbuilt on Birkins.
(30:13):
Like, yes, it tracks, it justtracks.
It's so funny.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Yeah.
Peanut butter plus jelly makes agood sandwich, right?
But the people who buy thosebags, they buy it as an
opportunity to reflect tothemselves that I'm worthy of
purchasing this product.
And that that why is a hundredthousand times more valuable
than the why of purchasing aJordan$50 bag.
(30:39):
Because that why gives them thejustification for the rest of
their life of everything thatthey possibly could do.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
I mean, I firmly believe, like within the
partnerships that I've worked,that for me to collect a check
for 50 grand on a partnershipthat I've done had always been
10 times easier than for me tocollect a check for 500.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
And I always found that to be like, why are you
making me work so hard?
You know, like servicesrendered, payment due, let's do
this.
And the 50 grand check, it'slike, come pick it up.
Okay.
So I think that's an interestingtake.
In terms of, I'm just curiousbecause this is like one of my
things I love to talk about, tophandles.
(31:25):
Like if we're gonna talk abouthand, I mean, honestly, Wally,
like we're gonna be in troublebecause I I keep checking the
time because I'm like, let'stalk about this, let's talk
about that.
What are your thoughts on thetrend on the current top handle
right now?
I know this is random, but it'snot for me.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
So enlighten me on this trend because I may be I
may be out of the loop here.
So, what is the top handle trendhere?
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
Like the top handle of a bag.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (31:49):
Like in terms of long, short, skinny, rounded,
flat, the whole thing.
Because all of that, a lot oftimes the top handle ends up
becoming more ornamental.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
Yes.
Yeah, because you're you'reyeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
And unless you see her wearing it in the cruck of
her arm, the top handle is neverused because then you need to
have a crossbody strap that atleast it could go over your
shoulder.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Right.
So, hmm.
You know what's top handle I dolike though, now that we're
bringing it up.
Many brands use it, but it's tophandle where it's like if you
pull it, it stretches out.
But when you let it go, it laysflat.
Like okay.
I don't know if you've seen Ido.
SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Those I love.
Those I love because it's likeit's almost like a two in one.
You can clutch it up if you needto.
But who's wearing bags on theirforearms in 2025?
They need Margo bags, which iswhy it's one of them I could,
yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
Margot bags.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
So I know now I've seed planted and I'm I'm gonna
take full ownership because Iknow you're gonna do a do a top
three slash five on top handles.
SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
Top handles, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:57):
And I'm now you're gonna pay attention to it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
I want to tag you on it as I yes, please.
Well, have you seen the tophandle for the new Chanel the
giraffe bags and those?
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
What do you what are your thoughts on those?
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
You know, it's funny because I was watching uh I
think item novelty is needednow.
Right.
I believed post-COVID that andI'm a big handbag history
person, like big.
(33:33):
I like uh am my own self-madehandbag historian because
history repeats itself, it'sbound to post-Spanish flu.
The trends became the bagsbecame small, they became
ornate, they became sparkly, thestraps were really, really long,
people were wearing them ontheir shoulders, and then people
(33:55):
were poor.
They were dead ass poor.
So it was like you got bothsides, and then it became very
clear that that's where we wereheaded.
And I think every single brandyou see that goes down the
runway now will make sure theyhave at least one silhouette
that's novelty.
(34:17):
And that will be the bag thatpeople will talk.
I mean, look about the coachoversized the clutch.
I forgot whatever thesilhouette's name was, but you
know, with the twist lock,that's lock.
Oh, yeah, exactly.
But everyone's gonna need thatbecause that's the one that
everyone's gonna talk about.
That's the story.
You will see people wearing it.
(34:38):
I can promise you you will beseeing knockoffs of it.
It might not be a giraffe, itwill be a different animal.
But if you type that in, it'slike it was the most covered
product of their entire line.
So novelty brings joy.
And the problem actually wasmany, many years ago when Betsy
(35:01):
Johnson was acquired by SteveMadden, that Betsy Johnson's
bags are novelty, right?
You can still find them.
They're really, really, reallyexpensive to make.
And sometimes when that happens,the price is not commensurate
with the customer.
So typically the brands will bebreaking even when they sell
(35:24):
them because they the bag can'tbe that much more expensive than
the rest of the collection.
Chanel can get away with doingthat, but those bags are high
labor, high detail.
So I believe you'll see it, butI believe you'll also see it on
the circular market by this timenext year.
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
For sure.
Because it came, it'll have amoment, and it it's and it went.
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
True.
Which to your point and to whatyou're saying earlier, which is
why I think it's very importantto always present present
yourself as valuable, because ifsomeone finds you valuable and
you presented yourself as notvaluable, that's the only arena
they'll allow you to exist in.
unknown (36:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:04):
So I don't know if you saw this guy in New York
City who makes his own handbags.
He has that uh he goes and so.
Is that is that the guy's name?
I I don't know.
He's like this black designer.
Oh.
And he he sells them out ofthis, like uh, but since he
makes his own handbags, he sellsthem for like 200 to like 200 to
like 400 max, and he's beenselling out in New York City,
(36:27):
makes his own handbags.
And the thing now is like if heever does anything that because
it's labor intensive for him, Imust assume, to make all these
handbags, but he started off atsuch a price point that doesn't
give him the ability to maneuverthe business.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
No, I mean, so many of these designers.
I mean, uh look, I I have asection at a trade show which I
want you to come visit at NewYork now, February 1st through
3rd, called the It Bag, where wecurate and find independent
designers from across the globeto sell their product.
There are so many of them whodon't know how to price their
products correctly.
(37:04):
So they're priced for D2Cbecause they don't need to pay
so much attention to the marginsbecause it's this, but for them
to sell it wholesale, it's amess because they just don't get
it.
They're not doing it right.
So someone might sell out, butare they really making money?
It's all relative.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
Right.
It begs the question.
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
What is more I can't think I can't, I don't know the
designer.
You have to let me know.
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
Yeah, I'll shoot you a DM of who he is.
But okay it begs the question ofwhich we talked about very early
in the show, is selling luxuryisn't sustainable because you
need to weed people out to thentruly understand your value
proposition.
SPEAKER_01 (37:47):
Yep.
Yep, exactly.
Exactly.
Wally, I could hold you captive.
I'm very excited we areconnected because you are we're
gonna be doing this.
We're gonna be doing the walletcheck-in.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Yeah, no, I'm very excited about this.
I think this is great.
I love finding people who arelike-minded and can just talk
about this.
I I hope you enjoyed thisbecause this is so my jam.
I could do this, like we couldkeep talking for three hours and
I wouldn't even notice.
Like this is gonna go up anddown.
I'm so into it.
I'm calling you past yourhandbag.
That's it.
(38:22):
If I'm the handbag fairygodmother, you're the pastor
because you are wielding theseone-liners that I think everyone
should know and hear.
I'm I'm here for it.
How can we find you, follow you,and hear more of your great top
three, top five, and everythingelse?
SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
Yeah, totally.
If you're younger, Gen X orolder, millennial, you can find
me at style by wale, s-t-y-l-e,b-y, w a l e.
If you're Gen Z, don't worry,you don't need to find me.
You'll find me when you get tothat age.
But that's where you can find meon Instagram and uh TikTok.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Okay.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We're gonna have you back forsure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
Can't wait.
SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at handbag designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
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