December 2, 2025 • 37 mins
Think launching a handbag brand is as easy as designing a pretty product? Think again. In this episode of Handbag Designer 101, we’re joined by industry expert Nancy Forman, whose decades of experience—from Bloomingdale’s to Accessory Think Tank—have made her a trusted voice in fashion strategy, manufacturing, and merchandising.
Nancy doesn’t sugarcoat it. Today’s market demands much more than a great idea—it requires a plan, a factory, and a deep understanding of your customer before you even produce your first bag. From hidden development costs to managing trade show expectations, her insights are a must-hear for any serious designer.
đź’ˇ Key Takeaways
 👜 Beyond the Sketch: Why product development starts long before design—and how skipping steps can sink your brand.
🌍 Small Runs, Big Potential: How Nancy’s Romanian factory allows brands to produce as few as 3–6 bags per style.
♻️ Smart Sustainability: Why leather vs. non-leather isn’t so black and white—and how to think critically about eco claims.
Whether you’re launching your first line or refining your supply chain, this conversation will shift your mindset and sharpen your strategy.
🎧 Listen now.
Our Guest: Nancy Forman is a veteran merchant, fashion consultant, and founder of Accessory Think Tank. She helps emerging brands build smart, scalable businesses through hands-on product development, manufacturing expertise, and retail insight.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.Â
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
It used to be easy to create a bag.
I mean, you and I both know welived it, take a brand, fix it
up, change it around, and it canbe a million or eight million
dollars or in three years.
Right.
Raw consumer demands and theretailer, ever more so the
consumer, a real clearunderstanding of the brand, its
values, its positioning, itsreason for being, its consumer
(00:21):
social responsibility.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, Handbag Industry
Expert, and the Handbag PerryGodmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love,
from the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(00:45):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Welcome to the handbag designer 101 podcast.
We have Nancy Foreman with ustoday from the Accessory Think
Tank.
Nancy, how far do we go back?
How many years with the Z?
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
I had heard of you and your success in the initial
handbag award creation.
How many years ago was that?
Oh my god, 2007.
So I met you in nine or 10 whenmy clients were beginning to win
awards.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
I had wanted to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
That's so funny.
So you were a merchant by trade.
I mean, I've had you speak at myclass.
We've done talks before, butjust for the sake of this
podcast and our new listeners,what's your background?
I love hearing this because itso speaks to why you are so good
at what you do.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Thank you, Emily.
And really, it's a thrill to betalking with you.
I always learn a lot and you'requite inspiring.
So thank you for having me.
To share as succinctly aspossible, I am a merchant.
It will always be ingrained inwho I am personally and
professionally.
I started my career withBlending Nails and was with
Nails for 14 years inmerchandising and buying.
(02:11):
And that set the tone for myselfrecognizing my great love of
product and my talent and skillin understanding the
marketplace, the competitivelandscape and merchandising.
So I am self-taught on thedesign aspect over the course of
about 17 years, yet still alwaysapply my thinking as a merchant
(02:37):
and a very, very validunderstanding of the competitive
landscape, both in the aspect ofhow a consumer thinks, to how a
buyer thinks, to how to maximizeexisting and future
opportunities.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
What do you think the biggest mistake the
designers we've worked with?
Like, what do you think some ofthose things going in?
Because I have a laundry list ofthose.
SPEAKER_02 (03:02):
Managing expectations in regard to how to
literally start from point A toB to C, understanding the
challenges of development andcosts by country, meaning I can
produce in New York or LosAngeles and essentially oversee
(03:23):
it and do it in more real time.
Yet, what are those costs andhow will that affect my total
cost before I can go overseasand potentially create something
and then have a thousand or twothousand units in a warehouse?
So, one, this initialunderstanding of expectation of
(03:44):
product development, and alsothe real understanding of
managing expectation of growth.
As over and over again, I haveseen brands who get to the fin
what they think the finish lineis, which is product
development, end up at a tradeshow before they're ready, which
is a very big investment, don'thave the success that they want
(04:06):
and close their business.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Yeah.
I mean, you and I both have seenpeople who have hired experts,
whatever they are, because thereare plenty of people out there
that do what you and I both do.
Well, I don't do what you do, soI just want to make that very
clear because you're a one ofone, Nancy.
Nobody does what you do as wellas you in terms of product
development trend and so forth.
But they take someone or someonetakes them on and promises them
(04:31):
the sun, moon, and stars,charges them an offensive
amount, and then they have, youknow, one bag for our
conversation's sake, one bag toshow for it.
And then they come to you withlike, well, I don't have much
money, but I have this one bagand I spent 20,000 developing
one bag.
Why am I not in sacks?
And it's like, oh damn, like Icould tell you a thousand
(04:53):
reasons why you're not in sacksbecause there's a hundred
thousand people just like you.
Number one.
Number two, you've blown throughyour money.
Number three, productdevelopment costs money, whether
you do it on your own or you doit with someone like you, right?
And number four, understandingyour customer designing into
that price point, understandingwhere they shop, why they shop,
(05:14):
what their needs are fromethnographically speaking,
socioeconomically,geographically, all of that.
But to develop a product thatpeople will actually want and
need, it's a process and itrequires a lot of research.
And then as far as I'mconcerned, that research is
free.
It's free.
Like you can do this researchwithout spending a lot of money
(05:35):
comparatively to how much youspend developing said product.
Would you agree?
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Yes.
And also there's a way toapproach research in a very
strategic way.
And also recognizing it is as amerchant, I would say it begins
and ends with products.
Yet as a consultant and alsoliving every single aspect of
brand creation through salesstrategy, the looking at the
(06:02):
competitive language goes reallygoes beyond what shapes, what
colors, but also really lookingat supply chain transparency,
consumer social responsibility,where the materials come from,
how they're made, how it makesthem, right?
So it's way more intense inregards to a comprehensive
(06:22):
understanding of brand strategyand creation.
So that's also how I've evolved.
I mean, we talk about power andshape all day long.
The reality is that a brandtoday has the opportunity to
also navigate and create througha very comprehensive strategy of
consumer social responsibilityand supply chain material and
(06:46):
who's making it, right?
And I say that I have created asmall batch women-owned strategy
to help navigate for startups sothat they don't go out of
business.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
What key points would you suggest in terms of
strategy that you've developed aor templatized?
What would you start with?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
In regards to the strategy, which I suggest for
any brand, and I I feel likethis is a method that we put
together and it has been wellreceived and recognized.
Is over and over again a brandwill come to me and say, What
bags are we making?
Right.
What jewelry are we making?
What decorative home are wemaking?
(07:27):
First and foremost, we step backand we understand the essence
and soul and thesis of the brandpositioning.
SPEAKER_01 (07:35):
The DNA.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:36):
Yeah.
It used to be easy to create abag.
I mean, you and I both know welived it, take a brand, fix it
up, change it around, and it canbe a million or eight million
dollars or in three years.
Right.
Right.
Raw consumer demands and theretailer, ever more so the
consumer, a real clearunderstanding of the brand, its
values, its positioning, itsreason for being, its consumer
(07:58):
social responsibility.
And as I've said minutes back,supply chain transparency and
that the product is madeethically, right?
You know, over and overalternative brands that move
away from leather, just becauseit is not leather does not mean
that it's best of environmentalapproach to development.
(08:18):
The other thing I found is thatthere are many brands who say
we're sustainable.
Yeah.
No one is 100% sustainable inprogress to really communicate
that way.
And in creating this brand ethosor blueprint, it keeps every
department on the same page.
Because we are startups, wedon't have the luxury of having
(08:40):
an organization in a buildingwhere we can meet each week or
every day to talk about wherewe're going, from visual to
Instagram to website to logo tofont system.
So this deck keeps all theindependent contractors on the
same page.
And very often that is acatalyst in opening the door to
(09:04):
really inspire manufacturingpartners or future partners who
want to get behind the brand.
So that's one thing.
And then also as you ask inregards to what are the biggest
mistakes, as you touched on,it's this managing expectation.
And if I hire this person andpay them this much money for a
(09:24):
logo or a website or anInstagram strategy or social
media or a product for thatmatter.
And it I really think that it isa process of a clock.
And all the arms, the movementof each of the times or sections
are your partnerships that movetogether, and that everybody
(09:47):
should be committed to theoutcome of the brand.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's recognition, not hiringa partner or a strategist or a
logo designer who wants theircommunity and is not involved
because a brand, especially whenit launches, there has to be a
(10:11):
team that is proactive to thefact that maybe the colors are
off.
Maybe the logo needs to beresized.
Maybe the product is tooexpensive.
Maybe the Instagram is notworking.
Have to have a team that iscommitted after you launch.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Well, a couple things.
One, I call that basement toBeyonce.
That's my hashtag.
That they get a little bit ofattention or designers pay
someone.
And automatically the assumptionis that this person is going to
be the panacea of my brand,right?
Dollar in a dream.
I have an idea.
(10:45):
I'm a creator.
I'm a designer.
Now I've employed someone who'sbasically going to convert these
thoughts, dreams, hopes, andsketches and turn me into a
viable brand.
So I can tell people I'm a realdesigner sold at retail.
So that's one.
We both know that that's fallacyat its best.
Number two, not everybody hasthe luxury or the wherewithal to
(11:06):
find an ANSI.
So, you know, to do all that ontheir own, we want to kind of
decrypt how and what that lookslike.
So if I'm a handbag designer andI've created my first bag and
I've paid$5,000 at a minimum fora local manufacturer per se,
domestic, to create my firstsample, what do you, as a
(11:27):
merchant, do with that fromthere?
Like if someone comes to you andsay, okay, that 5K is pretty
extreme.
I always say 5K because nobodygets their first back, right?
And if you go to thesemanufacturers for sampling, it's
the lowest hanging fruit ofcustomer where you could say,
What do you not like?
What do you want changed?
And lo and behold, you getcharged again and again and
(11:49):
again and again.
So the sample might not be, butby the time you're done, you've
dropped a minimum of 5K, right?
Another point is an NDAnon-disclosure agreement.
It is always a tell for newdesigners or people who are a
little bit too green and it cancome back and bite them in terms
of being put at the bottom ofthe production list or being
(12:11):
charged that much more, isgiving an NDA to a retailer,
giving an NDA to a manufacturer,giving an NDA to a sample maker.
Because in this day and age, youhave to show what you've done in
order to get discovered, notice,conversation.
And if you're showing up as aquote unquote nobody with an
(12:31):
NDA, damn, I know I can like putyou at the bottom of my
production list because youdon't know, or I can charge you
that much more because you don'tknow.
And as a retailer or a buyer,I'm not gonna even take your
call because I don't know youand I don't care.
SPEAKER_02 (12:44):
Well, I think an NDA with a retailer is something
that I I've seen it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
I have.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
When it comes to an NDA, I think it's the approach.
There's nothing wrong with anNDA being signed, and it's just
a reminder for all of us.
And I think it's the approachwith which the NDA is delivered
and communicated because that'sfair, frankly, because my
clients uh have NDA signed allthe time, and it's really the
delivery and communication.
Um listen, I understand yourlevel of expertise.
(13:15):
It's just uh you're uh anindustry reminder, and most
often the manufacturer who is inplace is used to it.
I will say I have seen notwithin the US, but overseas,
literally submitted something toa major manufacturer and saw it
was a design I developed,literally by design, yeah,
(13:37):
completely knock off with anNVA, you know.
So it's gotta be done rightoften, you know, 99%, no
problem.
But I don't have an issue withit in regards to your question
on manufacturing.
Yeah, it's all about budget andtime and experience.
Yeah.
So a brand or designer needs tohave that in-person experience
(13:58):
to create their products and 5kis within the budget, so be it.
You know, there are ordinarymanufacturers in New York.
I know throughout the world bylooking in a bag about how much
it's going to cost in sample,production, MLQ, landing, right?
Yeah.
So ultimately, also if backingup the brand or the client, the
(14:21):
designer really understands inadvance before the facts are
made, taking a look at theRubik's cube of strategy, right?
Yeah.
And that again is also whatshould be done before product is
made.
Yeah.
Looking at the options and thepros and cons and things.
Sometimes the 5K is the rightchoice because of time is money,
(14:45):
right?
You know, frustration.
Yeah.
So you really have to look atthat as a tool to make the
decision.
Because we develop that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
Yeah, there's so much to cover right now.
But even in terms ofsustainability, are you working
with brands that are stillwanting leather?
Because I work with actuallyrecently within my handbag
designer incubator, designersthat were hell bent on keeping
leather and having customersunderstand the beauty, the joy,
(15:15):
the seatfield touch, thattangibility factor of a leather
bag.
How do you approach that versus,you know, from a sustainable
element of saying, no, no, no,no, no, you know, like let's
make sure that because you can'tguarantee that the peace goods
are dead stock.
You can't, nor should you insome capacity or cases, you
know.
How do you integrate that intothe assortment?
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Well, one, I believe that there's incredible beauty
in art personal aspects and, ina sense, approach to well-lived
products that come from leather.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
I have such incredible relationships with so
many tanneries and owners oftanneries.
So understanding theirpositioning, how they
manufacture their teningprocesses.
So agree completely that thereis a place for leather, and then
there is a place for alternativematerials.
And the reason for thosereflects the positioning and
(16:09):
ethos of who the brand is, whatthey stand for, where they want
to land and where they want tomake it.
Right.
Exactly.
There's no one answer.
And frankly, there is there areincredible strategies and
implementations happening atboth ways, alternative materials
and with leathers.
Everybody wants to be better.
(16:31):
You know, obviously, if it's adesigner who is truly, truly
committed to the authenticity ofall beings, right, then they're
not going to use leather.
Right.
And there's a place for both.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
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(18:11):
today.
And do you have thoughts onChina?
(18:33):
No China.
Like I know so many brands rightnow are just using their China
factories for sampling, but notproduction.
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
I have found and find because we produce
throughout the United States andIndia, different parts of India
and China, Italy, Romania,Portugal, and more, that every
country has its roads.
And also has their ability fordomestic production.
I will tell you that China weresuch incredible relationships
(19:03):
and partnerships, both inproduction and material
development and jewelry anddecorative home in China and
then in Europe.
So, you know, it really comesdown to again, where does the
brand want to be in regards toprice, quality, and MLQ, right?
Because there is no reason todevelop in China if you're not
(19:26):
going to produce there.
I mean, to your point, you havepeople sampling.
Well, the hand work isextraordinary.
Yeah.
Right.
Yet there's a lot of credible,the biggest handman factory in
the world is in Vietnam, right?
You know, the reality is is thatthe MLQ is what a thousand,
three thousand.
So we can't do that.
But you know, again, we producein Seoul, Korea, all over.
(19:46):
You know, and frankly, I alsofeel and do this that in order
to be informed from thebeginning, one of the first
things to do is also look andsay, again, if I produce it
here, is this where it's goingto land in regards to MIQ price
quality and timing versus here?
And it may be that I start here,right?
Yet when I am producing, I'mpaying a higher price.
(20:08):
Yet I know that my goal is tohit this retail.
So I want it to be so it sells.
My margins are smaller.
I want my volume, I already knowwhere I can go.
So that if retailer X says,Emily, we absolutely love what
you're doing.
Your prices are too high, andyou don't already know where you
(20:30):
can go.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
What's MOQ?
Just to be clear.
Okay.
And in terms of landed price,now there's a variety of
pricing, right?
There's freight on board, whichis FOB, there's land of duty
paid, which is landed, LDP.
With your designers, how do youtypically do the pricing when
you're saying landed?
So how would you think aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
What happens is internationally, you know,
there's a freight forwarder thatmanages so that there's less of
a surprise, right?
The thing that that's been verychallenging today is shipping.
Yep.
Shipping costs are outrageous.
Yeah.
So Brennan, what you're thinkingthrough the$5,000 bag to be made
(21:18):
in your city rightly.
Yeah.
And then you know the shippingcosts literally over China equal
that.
So again, being really clear inthe short and longer term on
what is going to come up, right?
You make the right decision.
I would love to talk aboutwhat's happening in the market.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Yeah, no, I would I actually wanted to because I
want to cover, you know, sweetspot of pricing where you think
for different markets.
And then also make sure when wewrap up, we speak about colors,
trends, silhouettes where wethink things are going.
Because, you know, I want tomake sure that we have you on at
least once every three monthsjust to get the Nancy update.
(21:57):
Because this covers, I mean,right now everything we're
speaking about is prettytimeless, you know, to learn how
to create a bag from sketchinception to shelf to repeat
business to customeracquisitions to sustainability
to strategy.
Like there's a whole kind of youcould draw boxes and arrows for
what the correct pathway to doit.
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
Well, I also feel that you know, being an
entrepreneur or a new designer.
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
Or even an established designer who needs a
wake up.
unknown (22:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:26):
Who needs a wake up?
The as in reference, and Ireally think about the clock or
pie.
And you really have to put astrategy together as an
entrepreneur to wear so manyhats in order to really
understand.
So it's also almost like withina month um to ensure that you
devote time to sales strategy,right?
(22:48):
And how do you do that?
And that how that then leads tounderstanding the competitive
landscape and seeing otherbrands and identifying the stock
assist.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
So get me started on the my sexy SWAT, which I live
for, and doing a competitiveanalysis.
And oh wow, yeah, we definitelyneed to do more than one
conversation, but let's justmove over right now to pricing
and sweet spots and where youthink that's going.
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Contemporary modern luxury is really my expertise.
I know that there's mass andodds price and volume.
I know the levels in themeetings.
Um so I'm not going to talkabout those competitive 59, 69,
99, 199 prices because it is notmy market, yet it is sol to the
(23:33):
masters of the classes, sell theclasses with the masters.
Nothing wrong with it.
I am um very, very focused onthe radiation and creation of
something that doesn't exist,and then how to navigate and
create that in quality and thencommunication to the consumer
and the retailer.
And with that, then thepositioning is more expensive on
(23:57):
every level, yet the minimumsthat one has to invest are
controlled, right?
It's not just what you make,it's what you spend, right?
And what you make, you can havea healthy business, you could be
in a million-dollar business andbe profitable, and you could be
a$10 million profitable.
SPEAKER_01 (24:13):
So what you said, contemporary modern per se, what
retailer would that fall into?
And what sweet spot would youspeak to with that?
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
That would be on a suffrages.
I was in London last month, youknow, um suffrages is very
similar to Bergdorf or SACS,whereby you know, Joquamess and
you know, really like next levelassortments of product near Mes,
and yet there's a contemporaryfloor, right?
So one of our clients whatretailer in the US would you say
(24:46):
that would fall in?
Sorry, I was thinking about thesuccess of one of our clients
together.
Um Nordstrom, about Nordstrom,love, love, love, love Nordstrom
and their willingness to take achance on Eunice, although
Nordstrom I feel has a broaderassortment of eunists.
I think those two obviouslysacks and but those days those
(25:10):
are more challenging, right?
And they take a little bitlonger.
Yeah, and then of coursespecialty stores.
Right.
And I think don't don't sleep onthem.
People still should be able todo that.
So I actually actually loveworking with the specialty
stores.
Me too.
The feedback, the willingness totake a chance, the willingness
to pay up front.
(25:31):
So and really throughout thecountry, there are case makers
who really understand theircustomer.
Yeah.
Whether it's in Iowa, Oklahoma,Alabama, Palm Beach, Naples,
Florida, yeah, Baltimore, yeah,Chicago.
And I continue to follow thestores through signing up for
(25:54):
their marketing emails.
Yeah.
Those key merchants on LinkedIn.
I have immense respect for thosespecialty stores that have been
able to develop curatedassortments and really be a
tastemaker for their customers.
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
So, what price point would you say that would be a
sweet spot for that?
I would say$4.95 to$795.
$7.95 would be for a fullleather, or not even necessarily
full leather.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
Leather.
You know, the thing is we wereanalyzing this the other day on
our when it was the factory, oursmall factory, and I'm looking
at ABAD made in leather andnon-leather.
SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Actually, because non-leather, we're really using
new alternative best upmaterials that are more
expensive to make with lessbio-based percents.
So they're expensive.
A meter one of them is$35.
Wow.
Wow.
So really almost equal toleather, yet the consumer
(26:58):
understanding that, right?
So you can take a just have tobe careful.
I think I know there is still anobception by most consumers that
leather has more value.
Yeah, look at Stella, right?
And right.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
But I could go back and forth on this because I buy
into sustainability.
I understand that I'm totally onthe same page with you.
However, there's a smallernumber of customers that at
least that can afford that pricepoint that will make sure that
that's their core driving forcefor purchasing that product.
So my opinion was always ifyou're going to have that, it
(27:34):
should be part of yourassortment, not all of your
assortment in terms of thematerials, because at least you
should see, you know, take atemperature check to see how
your customer react to that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
And I have, and do you know, there I was looking at
the market the other day at aDNA.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Unless that's the DNA of your brand exclusively.
So, you know, that's the otherside.
In terms of where you thinkcolor is going and silhouette,
this is like my favorite part.
When I was on a call with aretailer that is lower price
point, it was interesting tohear about, you know,
hands-free, still superimportant, crossbody, still
super important, clutch, not somuch, but that's not their
(28:11):
customer.
You know, clutch, in my opinion,goes much more specialty or mass
or high-end.
It's kind of like if you'regoing into a certain retailer,
you're not going there to buy aparty bag.
You want that party bag to beeither super cheap or super
expensive or super novelty, myopinion.
So, in terms of color andsilhouette, where do you think
things are going in terms ofwhat you've seen?
SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
So you want to say and communicate Mrs.
Microsoft, and you meanself-taught on development and
design.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
I think you have to move past by saying self-taught,
because at this point, you're anindustry expert.
Like you're already validated.
SPEAKER_02 (28:44):
Um the design process, we're getting caught up
in fall, winter, this, spring,summer, this, these colors, and
I need to create this colorstory towards one seeds, and
that by the time I get tomarket, I look like a markdown.
Right.
So it's one thing if you're abigger brand, but if you're a
newer brand, you know, you talkabout color and let's talk about
it.
And I'm going to share.
(29:05):
The reality is you put a colorpalette together that reflects
an ethos of your products, yetthat also has legs that can sell
winter, spring, summer, andfall.
Thank God you said that.
Reality.
Okay.
That and so then you say, well,then don't I look like everybody
else?
Well, then figure out a way,just like I always say it's like
a bookshelf and shorter overhere.
(29:28):
Okay, so take a chance on acouple of color stories or
textile stories that docommunicate around it.
Yeah.
But make sure you have amanufacturing partner that works
with you that will make twos,threes, yeah, fixes.
Yeah.
And I will say, having livedthis where I wanted to go to
market with an assortment in avery strong color palette and
(29:49):
had not been able to do itthrough New York due to pricing,
China due to MOQ.
I said to myself, I've got tofix this.
Yeah.
So I opened a little factory.
So we now have the ability.
to do this.
So I solved that you have yourown factory now?
As a factory partner in Europe.
We're swimming back.
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
What country?
Romania.
Um this wow.
That's epic.
Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, Nancy.
Wow, I can't wait to share yourinformation at the end because
wow.
It's not just for bags.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
We're moving into exploration for other
categories, hair accessories.
I'll bet.
Clothing.
But it was really out of myrestoration of also, I cannot
take out a client, right?
Where you can't get their bagsmade.
Well I don't want to go throughthis challenge of an investment
of 50 or 60K or 80K in US withthe dyes, the MOQs, and tie up
(30:49):
those dollars when we have totake those dollars and split
them evenly between tight logo,visual identity, um product
development.
Yeah.
So um we did it.
So that's definitely made thingsmuch easier whereby our and we
do real time zooms with thefactory.
So what's the MOQ?
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Six, three, twelve.
Wow.
So instead of the designersaying, okay, I'm gonna make
this all neutral or I'm gonna doblack, brown, and oxblood.
And now they have an opportunityto do a short run collection of
green, hot pink, orange yellowjust for or at least develop
(31:28):
once because the problem is iseconomies of scale, right?
Like if you're producing greenbags on your end, it's gonna
cost you a lot more becauseyou're producing that much less.
But meanwhile you can't put thatto the customer.
So then what?
So that's always the picklebecause whenever I analyze uh
and talk to people aboutanalyzing brands and a brand's
(31:48):
health is counting how manypop-up color bags they have
within their assortment.
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
It's a very delicate balance, right?
You look at the success of anygreat brand who stands for
identifying their strong itemand then from that pulling that
out and communicating to thecustomer on whether it be
through size, yeah right throughan impact of it doesn't just
have to be like color it doesn'thave to be the rainbow.
(32:17):
It might be that you know thatyour communication and choice
the color story is veryreflective of a trip to the
country whereby the way that thethe truth the set shades of
oranges you know it's also likethe authenticity of where you're
making your choices ofdevelopment and how you
communicate that yeah even stillthe reality is is war neutral
(32:42):
always sells and yet we do needthat impact of storytelling and
I was insanity is doing the samething over and over again
expecting different results.
I know what it means I know whatthe costs are to create a brand
and yes product's wonderful butwhat inferior images half app
logo website that doesn't workyeah you know it's just and also
(33:05):
I've been privy over the yearsand recently and always I'm part
of every aspect of what theclient does and there's
excellence all over I'm justsaying is this can you afford it
right or if your proposal for alogo you know or a website 50k
well no right since how can youbut it's not insane for agencies
(33:28):
that are able to do it.
It's the same thing as is whyLop Lemmy Nelson started my
makeup brands right I hired thePR company that represented
people I thought being in amagazine was going to do it.
It's managing right and so wealso now have a built-out for
many clients logo website fontsystem visual identity and it's
(33:50):
incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
I'll bet yeah it sounds amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Let's go back to product because that's the fun
part so in regards to and I feltthis for a while I feel that the
earthiness on you know as weknow on the freshness of the
consumer becoming more casualright she she you know before
COVID we know how women dressedand then we were stuck and now
we're getting dressed up yet wehave a real connectivity to
(34:14):
nature and earth so the idea ofthe colors of nature meaning
that you could choose a palettethat is shades of shades of
cream like that would be yourstep and you don't need to do
one tan.
I'm not saying that's right.
But I really feel very stronglyabout chocolate I'm obsessed
with chocolate and you're gonnasee it.
(34:36):
I mean chocolates are to mereally fresh and a beautiful
alternative to blacks and thenfrom a color palette perspective
I think I still feel that shadesof green yep are better.
Yep just less atic but superexcited about that.
You know and ultimately againthere's beautiful colors across
(35:00):
all spectrums what makes sensefor that person's rents.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
So just because we only have a couple minutes left
what are your silhouettes towatch what do you think are on
their way out because I don'twant to take too much more of
your time because we'll close inon an hour here or 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (35:17):
Sure.
I mean logic and reality is isthat we know you know since the
beginning of time for us that asmart tote let's face come on a
smart tote whether it'stargeting working woman a mom
you know that there is someniche for a smart tote at the
same time novelty and when I'mtalking novelty I'm not then
(35:38):
saying that it has to becrystallized and embroidered but
really smart smart bag shapesthat's that's what I'm doing
right now like really coming outwith something beautiful I
really am quite inspired byhobos.
Yeah right not uh 1990s 2003yeah yeah kind of casual
(36:06):
crossbody hands free reallyworks with what's happening and
ready to wear and then I'm quiteexcited about travel because
there's you know like when Ilook back to travel brand that
we created together with theclient and the feedback from a
very senior person day at launchyou know so many people are
traveling so it's true the ideaof backpack.
(36:29):
Yeah you know um that theutilitarian aspect of backpack
but for my market or for doesn'tthen mean all my clients are
doing this but some level ofreally kick at really beautiful
novelty the casualsophistication of some sort of
crossbody messenger phob yep andclutches that's amazing well
(36:50):
Nancy thank you so much fortaking your time again you are
going to be our regular in termsof we're getting updates with
Nancy where can we find you howcan people find you follow you
why do we get back to everythingNancy my company is the
accessory think tank more nowthan accessories since we're in
(37:12):
our 18th year but the companyaccessory think tank my email is
Nancy at the accessory thinktank and my Instagram is at the
accessory think tank.
SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Amazing Nancy thank you thank you so much well stay
tuned and thanks for joining uson the handbag designer 101
podcast and more to come thanksguys have a good one thanks for
listening don't forget to rateand review and follow us on
(37:44):
every single platform at handbagdesigner thanks so much see you
next time
It used to be easy to create a bag.
I mean, you and I both know welived it, take a brand, fix it
up, change it around, and it canbe a million or eight million
dollars or in three years.
Right.
Raw consumer demands and theretailer, ever more so the
consumer, a real clearunderstanding of the brand, its
values, its positioning, itsreason for being, its consumer
(00:21):
social responsibility.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, Handbag Industry
Expert, and the Handbag PerryGodmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love,
from the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(00:45):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Welcome to the handbag designer 101 podcast.
We have Nancy Foreman with ustoday from the Accessory Think
Tank.
Nancy, how far do we go back?
How many years with the Z?
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
I had heard of you and your success in the initial
handbag award creation.
How many years ago was that?
Oh my god, 2007.
So I met you in nine or 10 whenmy clients were beginning to win
awards.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
I had wanted to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
That's so funny.
So you were a merchant by trade.
I mean, I've had you speak at myclass.
We've done talks before, butjust for the sake of this
podcast and our new listeners,what's your background?
I love hearing this because itso speaks to why you are so good
at what you do.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Thank you, Emily.
And really, it's a thrill to betalking with you.
I always learn a lot and you'requite inspiring.
So thank you for having me.
To share as succinctly aspossible, I am a merchant.
It will always be ingrained inwho I am personally and
professionally.
I started my career withBlending Nails and was with
Nails for 14 years inmerchandising and buying.
(02:11):
And that set the tone for myselfrecognizing my great love of
product and my talent and skillin understanding the
marketplace, the competitivelandscape and merchandising.
So I am self-taught on thedesign aspect over the course of
about 17 years, yet still alwaysapply my thinking as a merchant
(02:37):
and a very, very validunderstanding of the competitive
landscape, both in the aspect ofhow a consumer thinks, to how a
buyer thinks, to how to maximizeexisting and future
opportunities.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
What do you think the biggest mistake the
designers we've worked with?
Like, what do you think some ofthose things going in?
Because I have a laundry list ofthose.
SPEAKER_02 (03:02):
Managing expectations in regard to how to
literally start from point A toB to C, understanding the
challenges of development andcosts by country, meaning I can
produce in New York or LosAngeles and essentially oversee
(03:23):
it and do it in more real time.
Yet, what are those costs andhow will that affect my total
cost before I can go overseasand potentially create something
and then have a thousand or twothousand units in a warehouse?
So, one, this initialunderstanding of expectation of
(03:44):
product development, and alsothe real understanding of
managing expectation of growth.
As over and over again, I haveseen brands who get to the fin
what they think the finish lineis, which is product
development, end up at a tradeshow before they're ready, which
is a very big investment, don'thave the success that they want
(04:06):
and close their business.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Yeah.
I mean, you and I both have seenpeople who have hired experts,
whatever they are, because thereare plenty of people out there
that do what you and I both do.
Well, I don't do what you do, soI just want to make that very
clear because you're a one ofone, Nancy.
Nobody does what you do as wellas you in terms of product
development trend and so forth.
But they take someone or someonetakes them on and promises them
(04:31):
the sun, moon, and stars,charges them an offensive
amount, and then they have, youknow, one bag for our
conversation's sake, one bag toshow for it.
And then they come to you withlike, well, I don't have much
money, but I have this one bagand I spent 20,000 developing
one bag.
Why am I not in sacks?
And it's like, oh damn, like Icould tell you a thousand
(04:53):
reasons why you're not in sacksbecause there's a hundred
thousand people just like you.
Number one.
Number two, you've blown throughyour money.
Number three, productdevelopment costs money, whether
you do it on your own or you doit with someone like you, right?
And number four, understandingyour customer designing into
that price point, understandingwhere they shop, why they shop,
(05:14):
what their needs are fromethnographically speaking,
socioeconomically,geographically, all of that.
But to develop a product thatpeople will actually want and
need, it's a process and itrequires a lot of research.
And then as far as I'mconcerned, that research is
free.
It's free.
Like you can do this researchwithout spending a lot of money
(05:35):
comparatively to how much youspend developing said product.
Would you agree?
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Yes.
And also there's a way toapproach research in a very
strategic way.
And also recognizing it is as amerchant, I would say it begins
and ends with products.
Yet as a consultant and alsoliving every single aspect of
brand creation through salesstrategy, the looking at the
(06:02):
competitive language goes reallygoes beyond what shapes, what
colors, but also really lookingat supply chain transparency,
consumer social responsibility,where the materials come from,
how they're made, how it makesthem, right?
So it's way more intense inregards to a comprehensive
(06:22):
understanding of brand strategyand creation.
So that's also how I've evolved.
I mean, we talk about power andshape all day long.
The reality is that a brandtoday has the opportunity to
also navigate and create througha very comprehensive strategy of
consumer social responsibilityand supply chain material and
(06:46):
who's making it, right?
And I say that I have created asmall batch women-owned strategy
to help navigate for startups sothat they don't go out of
business.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
What key points would you suggest in terms of
strategy that you've developed aor templatized?
What would you start with?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
In regards to the strategy, which I suggest for
any brand, and I I feel likethis is a method that we put
together and it has been wellreceived and recognized.
Is over and over again a brandwill come to me and say, What
bags are we making?
Right.
What jewelry are we making?
What decorative home are wemaking?
(07:27):
First and foremost, we step backand we understand the essence
and soul and thesis of the brandpositioning.
SPEAKER_01 (07:35):
The DNA.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:36):
Yeah.
It used to be easy to create abag.
I mean, you and I both know welived it, take a brand, fix it
up, change it around, and it canbe a million or eight million
dollars or in three years.
Right.
Right.
Raw consumer demands and theretailer, ever more so the
consumer, a real clearunderstanding of the brand, its
values, its positioning, itsreason for being, its consumer
(07:58):
social responsibility.
And as I've said minutes back,supply chain transparency and
that the product is madeethically, right?
You know, over and overalternative brands that move
away from leather, just becauseit is not leather does not mean
that it's best of environmentalapproach to development.
(08:18):
The other thing I found is thatthere are many brands who say
we're sustainable.
Yeah.
No one is 100% sustainable inprogress to really communicate
that way.
And in creating this brand ethosor blueprint, it keeps every
department on the same page.
Because we are startups, wedon't have the luxury of having
(08:40):
an organization in a buildingwhere we can meet each week or
every day to talk about wherewe're going, from visual to
Instagram to website to logo tofont system.
So this deck keeps all theindependent contractors on the
same page.
And very often that is acatalyst in opening the door to
(09:04):
really inspire manufacturingpartners or future partners who
want to get behind the brand.
So that's one thing.
And then also as you ask inregards to what are the biggest
mistakes, as you touched on,it's this managing expectation.
And if I hire this person andpay them this much money for a
(09:24):
logo or a website or anInstagram strategy or social
media or a product for thatmatter.
And it I really think that it isa process of a clock.
And all the arms, the movementof each of the times or sections
are your partnerships that movetogether, and that everybody
(09:47):
should be committed to theoutcome of the brand.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's recognition, not hiringa partner or a strategist or a
logo designer who wants theircommunity and is not involved
because a brand, especially whenit launches, there has to be a
(10:11):
team that is proactive to thefact that maybe the colors are
off.
Maybe the logo needs to beresized.
Maybe the product is tooexpensive.
Maybe the Instagram is notworking.
Have to have a team that iscommitted after you launch.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Well, a couple things.
One, I call that basement toBeyonce.
That's my hashtag.
That they get a little bit ofattention or designers pay
someone.
And automatically the assumptionis that this person is going to
be the panacea of my brand,right?
Dollar in a dream.
I have an idea.
(10:45):
I'm a creator.
I'm a designer.
Now I've employed someone who'sbasically going to convert these
thoughts, dreams, hopes, andsketches and turn me into a
viable brand.
So I can tell people I'm a realdesigner sold at retail.
So that's one.
We both know that that's fallacyat its best.
Number two, not everybody hasthe luxury or the wherewithal to
(11:06):
find an ANSI.
So, you know, to do all that ontheir own, we want to kind of
decrypt how and what that lookslike.
So if I'm a handbag designer andI've created my first bag and
I've paid$5,000 at a minimum fora local manufacturer per se,
domestic, to create my firstsample, what do you, as a
(11:27):
merchant, do with that fromthere?
Like if someone comes to you andsay, okay, that 5K is pretty
extreme.
I always say 5K because nobodygets their first back, right?
And if you go to thesemanufacturers for sampling, it's
the lowest hanging fruit ofcustomer where you could say,
What do you not like?
What do you want changed?
And lo and behold, you getcharged again and again and
(11:49):
again and again.
So the sample might not be, butby the time you're done, you've
dropped a minimum of 5K, right?
Another point is an NDAnon-disclosure agreement.
It is always a tell for newdesigners or people who are a
little bit too green and it cancome back and bite them in terms
of being put at the bottom ofthe production list or being
(12:11):
charged that much more, isgiving an NDA to a retailer,
giving an NDA to a manufacturer,giving an NDA to a sample maker.
Because in this day and age, youhave to show what you've done in
order to get discovered, notice,conversation.
And if you're showing up as aquote unquote nobody with an
(12:31):
NDA, damn, I know I can like putyou at the bottom of my
production list because youdon't know, or I can charge you
that much more because you don'tknow.
And as a retailer or a buyer,I'm not gonna even take your
call because I don't know youand I don't care.
SPEAKER_02 (12:44):
Well, I think an NDA with a retailer is something
that I I've seen it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
I have.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
When it comes to an NDA, I think it's the approach.
There's nothing wrong with anNDA being signed, and it's just
a reminder for all of us.
And I think it's the approachwith which the NDA is delivered
and communicated because that'sfair, frankly, because my
clients uh have NDA signed allthe time, and it's really the
delivery and communication.
Um listen, I understand yourlevel of expertise.
(13:15):
It's just uh you're uh anindustry reminder, and most
often the manufacturer who is inplace is used to it.
I will say I have seen notwithin the US, but overseas,
literally submitted something toa major manufacturer and saw it
was a design I developed,literally by design, yeah,
(13:37):
completely knock off with anNVA, you know.
So it's gotta be done rightoften, you know, 99%, no
problem.
But I don't have an issue withit in regards to your question
on manufacturing.
Yeah, it's all about budget andtime and experience.
Yeah.
So a brand or designer needs tohave that in-person experience
(13:58):
to create their products and 5kis within the budget, so be it.
You know, there are ordinarymanufacturers in New York.
I know throughout the world bylooking in a bag about how much
it's going to cost in sample,production, MLQ, landing, right?
Yeah.
So ultimately, also if backingup the brand or the client, the
(14:21):
designer really understands inadvance before the facts are
made, taking a look at theRubik's cube of strategy, right?
Yeah.
And that again is also whatshould be done before product is
made.
Yeah.
Looking at the options and thepros and cons and things.
Sometimes the 5K is the rightchoice because of time is money,
(14:45):
right?
You know, frustration.
Yeah.
So you really have to look atthat as a tool to make the
decision.
Because we develop that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
Yeah, there's so much to cover right now.
But even in terms ofsustainability, are you working
with brands that are stillwanting leather?
Because I work with actuallyrecently within my handbag
designer incubator, designersthat were hell bent on keeping
leather and having customersunderstand the beauty, the joy,
(15:15):
the seatfield touch, thattangibility factor of a leather
bag.
How do you approach that versus,you know, from a sustainable
element of saying, no, no, no,no, no, you know, like let's
make sure that because you can'tguarantee that the peace goods
are dead stock.
You can't, nor should you insome capacity or cases, you
know.
How do you integrate that intothe assortment?
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Well, one, I believe that there's incredible beauty
in art personal aspects and, ina sense, approach to well-lived
products that come from leather.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
I have such incredible relationships with so
many tanneries and owners oftanneries.
So understanding theirpositioning, how they
manufacture their teningprocesses.
So agree completely that thereis a place for leather, and then
there is a place for alternativematerials.
And the reason for thosereflects the positioning and
(16:09):
ethos of who the brand is, whatthey stand for, where they want
to land and where they want tomake it.
Right.
Exactly.
There's no one answer.
And frankly, there is there areincredible strategies and
implementations happening atboth ways, alternative materials
and with leathers.
Everybody wants to be better.
(16:31):
You know, obviously, if it's adesigner who is truly, truly
committed to the authenticity ofall beings, right, then they're
not going to use leather.
Right.
And there's a place for both.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
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(18:11):
today.
And do you have thoughts onChina?
(18:33):
No China.
Like I know so many brands rightnow are just using their China
factories for sampling, but notproduction.
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
I have found and find because we produce
throughout the United States andIndia, different parts of India
and China, Italy, Romania,Portugal, and more, that every
country has its roads.
And also has their ability fordomestic production.
I will tell you that China weresuch incredible relationships
(19:03):
and partnerships, both inproduction and material
development and jewelry anddecorative home in China and
then in Europe.
So, you know, it really comesdown to again, where does the
brand want to be in regards toprice, quality, and MLQ, right?
Because there is no reason todevelop in China if you're not
(19:26):
going to produce there.
I mean, to your point, you havepeople sampling.
Well, the hand work isextraordinary.
Yeah.
Right.
Yet there's a lot of credible,the biggest handman factory in
the world is in Vietnam, right?
You know, the reality is is thatthe MLQ is what a thousand,
three thousand.
So we can't do that.
But you know, again, we producein Seoul, Korea, all over.
(19:46):
You know, and frankly, I alsofeel and do this that in order
to be informed from thebeginning, one of the first
things to do is also look andsay, again, if I produce it
here, is this where it's goingto land in regards to MIQ price
quality and timing versus here?
And it may be that I start here,right?
Yet when I am producing, I'mpaying a higher price.
(20:08):
Yet I know that my goal is tohit this retail.
So I want it to be so it sells.
My margins are smaller.
I want my volume, I already knowwhere I can go.
So that if retailer X says,Emily, we absolutely love what
you're doing.
Your prices are too high, andyou don't already know where you
(20:30):
can go.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
What's MOQ?
Just to be clear.
Okay.
And in terms of landed price,now there's a variety of
pricing, right?
There's freight on board, whichis FOB, there's land of duty
paid, which is landed, LDP.
With your designers, how do youtypically do the pricing when
you're saying landed?
So how would you think aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
What happens is internationally, you know,
there's a freight forwarder thatmanages so that there's less of
a surprise, right?
The thing that that's been verychallenging today is shipping.
Yep.
Shipping costs are outrageous.
Yeah.
So Brennan, what you're thinkingthrough the$5,000 bag to be made
(21:18):
in your city rightly.
Yeah.
And then you know the shippingcosts literally over China equal
that.
So again, being really clear inthe short and longer term on
what is going to come up, right?
You make the right decision.
I would love to talk aboutwhat's happening in the market.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Yeah, no, I would I actually wanted to because I
want to cover, you know, sweetspot of pricing where you think
for different markets.
And then also make sure when wewrap up, we speak about colors,
trends, silhouettes where wethink things are going.
Because, you know, I want tomake sure that we have you on at
least once every three monthsjust to get the Nancy update.
(21:57):
Because this covers, I mean,right now everything we're
speaking about is prettytimeless, you know, to learn how
to create a bag from sketchinception to shelf to repeat
business to customeracquisitions to sustainability
to strategy.
Like there's a whole kind of youcould draw boxes and arrows for
what the correct pathway to doit.
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
Well, I also feel that you know, being an
entrepreneur or a new designer.
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
Or even an established designer who needs a
wake up.
unknown (22:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:26):
Who needs a wake up?
The as in reference, and Ireally think about the clock or
pie.
And you really have to put astrategy together as an
entrepreneur to wear so manyhats in order to really
understand.
So it's also almost like withina month um to ensure that you
devote time to sales strategy,right?
(22:48):
And how do you do that?
And that how that then leads tounderstanding the competitive
landscape and seeing otherbrands and identifying the stock
assist.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
So get me started on the my sexy SWAT, which I live
for, and doing a competitiveanalysis.
And oh wow, yeah, we definitelyneed to do more than one
conversation, but let's justmove over right now to pricing
and sweet spots and where youthink that's going.
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Contemporary modern luxury is really my expertise.
I know that there's mass andodds price and volume.
I know the levels in themeetings.
Um so I'm not going to talkabout those competitive 59, 69,
99, 199 prices because it is notmy market, yet it is sol to the
(23:33):
masters of the classes, sell theclasses with the masters.
Nothing wrong with it.
I am um very, very focused onthe radiation and creation of
something that doesn't exist,and then how to navigate and
create that in quality and thencommunication to the consumer
and the retailer.
And with that, then thepositioning is more expensive on
(23:57):
every level, yet the minimumsthat one has to invest are
controlled, right?
It's not just what you make,it's what you spend, right?
And what you make, you can havea healthy business, you could be
in a million-dollar business andbe profitable, and you could be
a$10 million profitable.
SPEAKER_01 (24:13):
So what you said, contemporary modern per se, what
retailer would that fall into?
And what sweet spot would youspeak to with that?
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
That would be on a suffrages.
I was in London last month, youknow, um suffrages is very
similar to Bergdorf or SACS,whereby you know, Joquamess and
you know, really like next levelassortments of product near Mes,
and yet there's a contemporaryfloor, right?
So one of our clients whatretailer in the US would you say
(24:46):
that would fall in?
Sorry, I was thinking about thesuccess of one of our clients
together.
Um Nordstrom, about Nordstrom,love, love, love, love Nordstrom
and their willingness to take achance on Eunice, although
Nordstrom I feel has a broaderassortment of eunists.
I think those two obviouslysacks and but those days those
(25:10):
are more challenging, right?
And they take a little bitlonger.
Yeah, and then of coursespecialty stores.
Right.
And I think don't don't sleep onthem.
People still should be able todo that.
So I actually actually loveworking with the specialty
stores.
Me too.
The feedback, the willingness totake a chance, the willingness
to pay up front.
(25:31):
So and really throughout thecountry, there are case makers
who really understand theircustomer.
Yeah.
Whether it's in Iowa, Oklahoma,Alabama, Palm Beach, Naples,
Florida, yeah, Baltimore, yeah,Chicago.
And I continue to follow thestores through signing up for
(25:54):
their marketing emails.
Yeah.
Those key merchants on LinkedIn.
I have immense respect for thosespecialty stores that have been
able to develop curatedassortments and really be a
tastemaker for their customers.
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
So, what price point would you say that would be a
sweet spot for that?
I would say$4.95 to$795.
$7.95 would be for a fullleather, or not even necessarily
full leather.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
Leather.
You know, the thing is we wereanalyzing this the other day on
our when it was the factory, oursmall factory, and I'm looking
at ABAD made in leather andnon-leather.
SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Actually, because non-leather, we're really using
new alternative best upmaterials that are more
expensive to make with lessbio-based percents.
So they're expensive.
A meter one of them is$35.
Wow.
Wow.
So really almost equal toleather, yet the consumer
(26:58):
understanding that, right?
So you can take a just have tobe careful.
I think I know there is still anobception by most consumers that
leather has more value.
Yeah, look at Stella, right?
And right.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
But I could go back and forth on this because I buy
into sustainability.
I understand that I'm totally onthe same page with you.
However, there's a smallernumber of customers that at
least that can afford that pricepoint that will make sure that
that's their core driving forcefor purchasing that product.
So my opinion was always ifyou're going to have that, it
(27:34):
should be part of yourassortment, not all of your
assortment in terms of thematerials, because at least you
should see, you know, take atemperature check to see how
your customer react to that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
And I have, and do you know, there I was looking at
the market the other day at aDNA.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Unless that's the DNA of your brand exclusively.
So, you know, that's the otherside.
In terms of where you thinkcolor is going and silhouette,
this is like my favorite part.
When I was on a call with aretailer that is lower price
point, it was interesting tohear about, you know,
hands-free, still superimportant, crossbody, still
super important, clutch, not somuch, but that's not their
(28:11):
customer.
You know, clutch, in my opinion,goes much more specialty or mass
or high-end.
It's kind of like if you'regoing into a certain retailer,
you're not going there to buy aparty bag.
You want that party bag to beeither super cheap or super
expensive or super novelty, myopinion.
So, in terms of color andsilhouette, where do you think
things are going in terms ofwhat you've seen?
SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
So you want to say and communicate Mrs.
Microsoft, and you meanself-taught on development and
design.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
I think you have to move past by saying self-taught,
because at this point, you're anindustry expert.
Like you're already validated.
SPEAKER_02 (28:44):
Um the design process, we're getting caught up
in fall, winter, this, spring,summer, this, these colors, and
I need to create this colorstory towards one seeds, and
that by the time I get tomarket, I look like a markdown.
Right.
So it's one thing if you're abigger brand, but if you're a
newer brand, you know, you talkabout color and let's talk about
it.
And I'm going to share.
(29:05):
The reality is you put a colorpalette together that reflects
an ethos of your products, yetthat also has legs that can sell
winter, spring, summer, andfall.
Thank God you said that.
Reality.
Okay.
That and so then you say, well,then don't I look like everybody
else?
Well, then figure out a way,just like I always say it's like
a bookshelf and shorter overhere.
(29:28):
Okay, so take a chance on acouple of color stories or
textile stories that docommunicate around it.
Yeah.
But make sure you have amanufacturing partner that works
with you that will make twos,threes, yeah, fixes.
Yeah.
And I will say, having livedthis where I wanted to go to
market with an assortment in avery strong color palette and
(29:49):
had not been able to do itthrough New York due to pricing,
China due to MOQ.
I said to myself, I've got tofix this.
Yeah.
So I opened a little factory.
So we now have the ability.
to do this.
So I solved that you have yourown factory now?
As a factory partner in Europe.
We're swimming back.
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
What country?
Romania.
Um this wow.
That's epic.
Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, Nancy.
Wow, I can't wait to share yourinformation at the end because
wow.
It's not just for bags.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
We're moving into exploration for other
categories, hair accessories.
I'll bet.
Clothing.
But it was really out of myrestoration of also, I cannot
take out a client, right?
Where you can't get their bagsmade.
Well I don't want to go throughthis challenge of an investment
of 50 or 60K or 80K in US withthe dyes, the MOQs, and tie up
(30:49):
those dollars when we have totake those dollars and split
them evenly between tight logo,visual identity, um product
development.
Yeah.
So um we did it.
So that's definitely made thingsmuch easier whereby our and we
do real time zooms with thefactory.
So what's the MOQ?
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Six, three, twelve.
Wow.
So instead of the designersaying, okay, I'm gonna make
this all neutral or I'm gonna doblack, brown, and oxblood.
And now they have an opportunityto do a short run collection of
green, hot pink, orange yellowjust for or at least develop
(31:28):
once because the problem is iseconomies of scale, right?
Like if you're producing greenbags on your end, it's gonna
cost you a lot more becauseyou're producing that much less.
But meanwhile you can't put thatto the customer.
So then what?
So that's always the picklebecause whenever I analyze uh
and talk to people aboutanalyzing brands and a brand's
(31:48):
health is counting how manypop-up color bags they have
within their assortment.
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
It's a very delicate balance, right?
You look at the success of anygreat brand who stands for
identifying their strong itemand then from that pulling that
out and communicating to thecustomer on whether it be
through size, yeah right throughan impact of it doesn't just
have to be like color it doesn'thave to be the rainbow.
(32:17):
It might be that you know thatyour communication and choice
the color story is veryreflective of a trip to the
country whereby the way that thethe truth the set shades of
oranges you know it's also likethe authenticity of where you're
making your choices ofdevelopment and how you
communicate that yeah even stillthe reality is is war neutral
(32:42):
always sells and yet we do needthat impact of storytelling and
I was insanity is doing the samething over and over again
expecting different results.
I know what it means I know whatthe costs are to create a brand
and yes product's wonderful butwhat inferior images half app
logo website that doesn't workyeah you know it's just and also
(33:05):
I've been privy over the yearsand recently and always I'm part
of every aspect of what theclient does and there's
excellence all over I'm justsaying is this can you afford it
right or if your proposal for alogo you know or a website 50k
well no right since how can youbut it's not insane for agencies
(33:28):
that are able to do it.
It's the same thing as is whyLop Lemmy Nelson started my
makeup brands right I hired thePR company that represented
people I thought being in amagazine was going to do it.
It's managing right and so wealso now have a built-out for
many clients logo website fontsystem visual identity and it's
(33:50):
incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
I'll bet yeah it sounds amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Let's go back to product because that's the fun
part so in regards to and I feltthis for a while I feel that the
earthiness on you know as weknow on the freshness of the
consumer becoming more casualright she she you know before
COVID we know how women dressedand then we were stuck and now
we're getting dressed up yet wehave a real connectivity to
(34:14):
nature and earth so the idea ofthe colors of nature meaning
that you could choose a palettethat is shades of shades of
cream like that would be yourstep and you don't need to do
one tan.
I'm not saying that's right.
But I really feel very stronglyabout chocolate I'm obsessed
with chocolate and you're gonnasee it.
(34:36):
I mean chocolates are to mereally fresh and a beautiful
alternative to blacks and thenfrom a color palette perspective
I think I still feel that shadesof green yep are better.
Yep just less atic but superexcited about that.
You know and ultimately againthere's beautiful colors across
(35:00):
all spectrums what makes sensefor that person's rents.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
So just because we only have a couple minutes left
what are your silhouettes towatch what do you think are on
their way out because I don'twant to take too much more of
your time because we'll close inon an hour here or 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (35:17):
Sure.
I mean logic and reality is isthat we know you know since the
beginning of time for us that asmart tote let's face come on a
smart tote whether it'stargeting working woman a mom
you know that there is someniche for a smart tote at the
same time novelty and when I'mtalking novelty I'm not then
(35:38):
saying that it has to becrystallized and embroidered but
really smart smart bag shapesthat's that's what I'm doing
right now like really coming outwith something beautiful I
really am quite inspired byhobos.
Yeah right not uh 1990s 2003yeah yeah kind of casual
(36:06):
crossbody hands free reallyworks with what's happening and
ready to wear and then I'm quiteexcited about travel because
there's you know like when Ilook back to travel brand that
we created together with theclient and the feedback from a
very senior person day at launchyou know so many people are
traveling so it's true the ideaof backpack.
(36:29):
Yeah you know um that theutilitarian aspect of backpack
but for my market or for doesn'tthen mean all my clients are
doing this but some level ofreally kick at really beautiful
novelty the casualsophistication of some sort of
crossbody messenger phob yep andclutches that's amazing well
(36:50):
Nancy thank you so much fortaking your time again you are
going to be our regular in termsof we're getting updates with
Nancy where can we find you howcan people find you follow you
why do we get back to everythingNancy my company is the
accessory think tank more nowthan accessories since we're in
(37:12):
our 18th year but the companyaccessory think tank my email is
Nancy at the accessory thinktank and my Instagram is at the
accessory think tank.
SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Amazing Nancy thank you thank you so much well stay
tuned and thanks for joining uson the handbag designer 101
podcast and more to come thanksguys have a good one thanks for
listening don't forget to rateand review and follow us on
(37:44):
every single platform at handbagdesigner thanks so much see you
next time
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