November 29, 2024 • 71 mins
Episode 16:"Different Battles, Common Ground"
Bakhtiar Talash , 38
Sacramento, CA
My lyft driver turned guest, Was kind enough to sit down with me in Old Sacramento.
- It had been 6 years since being back in Cali, what a way to end the trip.
(btw) Sorry I didn't get a chance to make it Modesto, Will be returning early 2025 for two weeks, To record a few Podcast with some peeps back home. As well as get started on the documentary I've been lowkey working on.
Talking about the navigation of the complexities of cultural integration.
His story is not just about all the places he's lived, but the spirit of resilience and determination shaped by his family’s commitment to education.
After the loss of his father. We dive into how his early teachings have carved his path from law and politics to pioneering EV technology.
All while balancing family life and the nuances of an arranged marriage that blossomed into true love.
He opens up about the challenges immigrants face when crossing cultural boundaries in the United States.
His personal anecdotes shed light on the many struggles immigrants face.
Finally, the conversation turns towards mental health, and exploring the various ways people cope with depression.
We discuss how upbringing in different environments impacts resilience and the struggle veterans face in civilian life.
He also reflects on the role of spirituality, medicine, and natural remedies in managing mental health. While advocating for individual choice in finding happiness.
Tune in for a profound discussion on resilience, integration, and the pursuit of harmony in a diverse world.
Big thank you to my friend here.
One moment he’s picking me up from my hotel room in his Lyft. Next day we’re in Old Sacramento shooting one of the most important Podcasts I’ve done to date.
Within 10 minutes of sitting in a vehicle with a stranger, on my last day in which I did not think I would be able to record one.
My rocket scientist Lyft driver came through in the clutch.
I think in one way or another, we’re all standing on “Common Ground.”
#hwhp #tour #hangingwithhumans
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Thank you so much for taking the time out of your important life to listen, It means the world to me.
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In honor of those who served our country. During times of peace and war. Those who gave the supreme sacrifice, Those still missing and those who came home both whole and broken.
In honor of those still fighting everyday to keep their head above water.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
ME (00:01):
Looking great.
Alright, let's do it Hello andwelcome to the Hanging with
Humans podcast.
This is your host, rj Ferreira,and I'm here in Sacramento,
california, with a new friend ofmine, bakhtiar.
What's his last name?
Bakhtiar Talash, true, doesthat work?
(00:22):
Yeah, that works.
And how old are you, bakhtiar?
BAKHTIAR (00:25):
I'm 38.
ME (00:26):
38.
Sacramento, california, iswhere we're at, but where were
you born, sir?
BAKHTIAR (00:30):
I was born and raised in Afghanistan.
ME (00:32):
In Afghanistan.
Yeah, what part?
BAKHTIAR (00:36):
I was born in Kabul and I spent 20 years of my life
something in Afghanistan, butI'm 38, so 18 years being
immigrant here and there, niceyeah.
ME (00:51):
How many years from when you left there the first time to
when was the last time you wentback?
So how many years apart?
Five years ago?
Five years ago?
Yeah, yeah, so the US wasn'tthe first place you moved to
outside of Afghanistan.
Yeah, yeah, so the US wasn'tthe first place you moved to
outside of Afghanistan?
BAKHTIAR (01:05):
No, no.
When I was five years old, myfather he was studying at the
time in Moscow.
He was doing his PhD, OK.
So we headed to Russia andliving in Russia for two years
and I was kid and then my fathermoved back to Afghanistan after
completing his PhD but he was aprofessor at the university, so
(01:31):
but there was issues like thatcauses us to move out of
Afghanistan.
And then we had to head back toPakistan and we were immigrants
in Pakistan for nine years.
That's where I been toelementary school and a portion
(01:51):
of my middle school I completedin Pakistan, mostly in the north
northwest provinces of Pakistan, which is a disputed territory
between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
ME (02:03):
Is that a?
How Americanized is the part ofPakistan that you went to
school at, and all that?
BAKHTIAR (02:10):
Americanized.
I didn't.
ME (02:12):
So like when, for instance, when I flew into Kabul for the
first time, there was like KFCand Starbucks and all that type
of stuff.
You know what I mean.
How is Pakistan in relation tolike that type of thing?
BAKHTIAR (02:25):
At the time when I was there and I was child.
I don't really remember that Ihave seen any KFC or McDonald's,
and even I traveled in 2016 toPakistan, and particularly in
Islamabad.
I have never seen anyMcDonald's or KFC, but when I
headed to India, there was KFCand McDonald's for sure.
ME (02:51):
India is one place I haven't traveled to yet, but I really
would like to do.
BAKHTIAR (02:54):
You recommend it yeah, yeah, it's a quite nice place,
nice historical.
I think yeah, to visitparticularly daily and some
other.
ME (03:03):
That would be really cool.
Um, so for context, uh, on howwe met um, I'm in sacramento, I
was gonna go to modesto, I justflew in from lax, um, but I'm on
my kind of work, traveling, uh,tour for the podcast and I'm
just trying to meet people alongthe way, people that I believe
(03:23):
have interesting stories thatcan make an impact in other
people's lives.
And the short conversation wehad in our Uber or Lyft, it was
funny.
When I showed up to jump inyour car, you were like hold on
my phone, it's rebooting becausehe was doing an update.
So we had to like hang out inthe car for a little bit and
chill.
So it's very nice to meet you.
BAKHTIAR (03:45):
Me too, yeah, and.
ME (03:47):
I appreciate you doing this for me, so we're going to jump
into some stuff.
I want to kind of begin withwith your childhood and this is
a question that just came up tome too.
So I didn't know that yourfather was like highly educated.
You know as well, highlyeducated as you know as well.
(04:09):
Um, how common is that?
Uh, like like there to likehave generationally families
that have like gone to school,got the?
You know you have two masterdegrees, don't you?
BAKHTIAR (04:14):
I have two, we'll get into that later, but yeah, um,
we are a family my sister, sheis currently doing her phd and
she, she lives in uk.
And my brother, he has twobachelors and a master's.
He is living in Australia andSydney, and my another brother,
he has a master's degree fromIndia, and my other brother, he
(04:39):
is right now studying civilengineering in UK hey, it's a
family of geniuses.
ME (04:46):
That's cool.
Who are you closest to out ofyour siblings?
BAKHTIAR (04:51):
I was very close to my father.
He passed away last year.
ME (04:55):
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
BAKHTIAR (04:57):
And he was not only a father, but he was a friend.
He was a brother and, yeah, hewas the closest I remember.
I've seen people when theirfathers are hard on them and
they say, like I don't like myfather because he's so hard, he
(05:20):
don't love me.
But whatever I am today andwhatever our family is today,
all of my siblings, my brothers,sisters it's all because of the
hard push by my father and I'vebeen through very hard
situations in my life but it'sbecause my father trained me as
(05:42):
hard so I be a very resilienthuman yes.
I, I love my mother too, but youknow, yeah, you learn what you
learn from who you learn fromthat's awesome, he sounds like a
very strong man.
ME (05:55):
Yeah, he was.
That's awesome man.
Um, what did?
What did your mother do?
BAKHTIAR (06:00):
my mother.
She was a teacher in Kabul.
She was teaching in a schooland, yeah, she spent all her
life teaching and educatingstudents and girls in
Afghanistan.
That's awesome.
And yeah, she studied.
She graduated long ago, that'sawesome.
ME (06:21):
Where is she at?
Now she's in Sydneyney,australia okay, with your sister
, with my with my brother and Ihave a little sister.
BAKHTIAR (06:32):
A little sister means she's 26, you just got engaged,
oh okay and, yeah, she lives, uh, with my sister right now.
When my father passed away,then my mother and sister they
live together, while my brotheris also close to them, so he
takes a good care of my motherand my sister.
ME (06:51):
That's awesome.
Is everybody in pretty goodcontact with each other, even
though you're so far away?
BAKHTIAR (06:55):
Yeah, yeah, we are.
We communicate with each other.
One thing that I learned frommy father was that you know, if
you are having good days,celebrate together, but if you
are having bad days, you must betogether.
ME (07:14):
Really.
BAKHTIAR (07:15):
So when it comes to any hard decision making in our
family since my father passedaway, then you know they shoot
me because I am the oldest son.
Yeah, yeah, oldest son, yeah,but I don't see myself to be the
oldest son.
I treat them all like friends.
Yeah, but yeah, we all together, particularly when it comes to
a hard situation.
(07:35):
Right now my brother is inAfghanistan one of my brother
and we are kind of trying totake him out of Afghanistan
because of the situation,because in our family everyone
is out.
And that's causing some doubtsthat he might be in risk.
So, yeah, that's the hard, andwe are all together to you know,
(07:57):
help him.
ME (07:58):
Yeah, what's the communication like with him
right now?
BAKHTIAR (08:02):
Yeah, we communicate.
I just talked to him today.
Uh, he might be moving soon toone of the, maybe to albania.
Okay, with her wife, and wewere all together before coming
here talking to you.
I'll just stand the phone withthem nice man.
ME (08:18):
That's awesome.
Well, I'm glad you guys havelike a plan and situation to try
to get him out.
BAKHTIAR (08:22):
How do we live in different continents?
It's crazy australia, us,europe and asia, but we are
still connected that's with theheart and mind that's so
important, man, it really is.
ME (08:34):
Um.
Family really is everything.
Um, so let's uh.
So you were born in Afghanistan, you lived in Pakistan, went to
school.
What does life in school likeafter that?
Where do you go to next?
BAKHTIAR (08:55):
So when the 9-11 happened, my father was in depth
of the politics of the time.
So two years before he was mysister, she was supposed to go
to college and we didn't havemoney for it.
So I was telling my sister,used to tell my dad that what we
(09:15):
do because I'm interested to goto college and she my father
says like yeah, you will go tocollege in Afghanistan.
And we were kind of amazed.
Like you know, we spent nineyears in pakistan, but how would
she go to college in a terriblecountry controlled by talibans
at the time?
But my father's predictions andhis thoughts were very keen.
(09:39):
And when the 9-11 happened, like, uh, right after we headed back
to our home country and startedliving and I finished my
seventh grade in Pakistan andthen continued with my higher
education in high school inAfghanistan.
And then, right after finishingmy high school, I headed to the
(10:03):
university and studied law andpolitics and then I had, during
the law school, I had theopportunity to represent my
country and the internationallaw moot court competitions that
I told you, jessup.
Yeah, so I representedAfghanistan in 2010 and that was
(10:25):
the first time I would say thatmy life got a new shape to be
connected with the uh, let'scall with the western world.
And then, up on my graduation,I had very good colleagues that
I named them them.
They were not only myinstructors but good friends who
(10:46):
instructed me and guided me towork with them.
And then I started working forthe US Department of State, for
the INL, and then, throughout Iwas single at the time got
married.
Now I have two beautiful kidsand my beautiful wife, and upon
(11:07):
completing my bachelor andhaving a job, I started studying
, never stopped.
ME (11:12):
Never stopped.
BAKHTIAR (11:13):
Did my first master's degree by 2014.
Nice, and then by 2016,.
I had an opportunity for amerit-based scholarship to
Australia and I studied with theInternational Anti-corruption
academy in austria.
Did my second master's degreeand, yeah, that was a joy headed
back worked for a little bit.
(11:34):
That's pretty much about myeducational life, that's amazing
man and I and we didn't talkabout the united states.
But but when I came to theUnited States because of my
anti-corruption studies, I waslooking around what to do.
So I did study a little bit andI got the membership of the
(11:57):
Association of CertifiedFinancial Crime Specialists and
did around 21 units with them.
I was their member until 2023.
And well, it's where the marketpushes you.
I did a boot camp on softwaredevelopment and then had an
(12:18):
opportunity to work with theworld's biggest companies.
ME (12:22):
Here in the US, I was employed by Apple as a software
developer yeah, and, and youwere telling me your wife's in
school right now for softwaredevelopment.
Yeah, yeah is that somethingyou pushed for her, or is it
something she kind of just likedto do on her own, or how did
that become?
BAKHTIAR (12:39):
well, there are things as a immigrant you have to
sacrifice when you are movingout of your comfort zone.
She studied law back inAfghanistan and she worked for
the United Nations with theWorld Food Program, wfp.
When we were heading to theUnited States, right before I
(13:05):
had a plan and I said like,because the legal systems are
different, so neither me nor herwill be able to work as a
lawyer or attorney here in theUnited States.
But there was this opportunityin the tech industry where there
is demand, and that's why Iencouraged her one year before
(13:26):
our move to the United States.
And now she's doing pretty well, completed her college and now
she's on her second semester.
ME (13:35):
I'm proud of her yeah, man, you should be.
Uh, california is a good placefor getting into the tech world,
for sure.
So that was a.
That was a solid move.
Um, so we've gone throughschooling a little bit.
Um, what is it like?
Um, so I'm actually I'm reallyglad that you brought this up,
you.
You were talking about your,your master's degree program and
(13:57):
how it was a merit-based uminvite through scholarship.
How is it?
How, how do you feel about thefact that it was something like?
You got this opportunitybecause of, surely, your hard
work and your, your brain, yourdetermination over the fact that
(14:18):
you know there are a lot ofprograms that not give these,
but you know these scholarshipsgo to, whether it's a certain
type of ethnicity or or other,whatever guidelines there are.
Um, that's got to feel good toto know that.
You know you battled througheverybody and you made it
through the top yeah, yeah, yeah.
BAKHTIAR (14:36):
I mean when uh, one of my friend he was studying for
the same program and he told methat give it a try.
And I, I never thought and I'mnot not thinking that, you know,
I'm an intelligent guy, or youknow but, I've been through the,
the interview and I have towrite some statements and stuff,
(14:59):
and the scholarship wasactually globally merit-based
and it was not like we hadscholarships back in Afghanistan
like Fulbright or Chevening, orwe had PPP they call it
public-private partnership heldby the US Embassy in Kabul, so
(15:22):
they were particularly forAfghans.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, embassy inKabul, so they were particularly
for Afghans yeah, and theprogram I got into was not
particularly for, you know,afghans, it was globally, yeah,
competitive scholarship.
I'm glad I made it.
Yeah, and I mean no one knowsits potential as long as someone
(15:46):
else measures it.
Whenever I meet people and Italk to them about what I did
and what I am doing, they tellme that you must be very
intelligent, maybe smart, andyou know, I don't see myself to
be very smart, very intelligent.
But one thing that I know Ihave a potential.
(16:09):
I'm giving an example.
I used to work On our way.
We had this discussion of youknow people will say he's good
for nothing in my office Onething that I realized and I
disclosed that to my supervisorat the time and I told her that
you give me the task and Icomplete those tasks very fast.
(16:31):
But I just want to let you knowthat you know you, throughout
the five years of the project,you didn't explore and extract
two percent of my energy.
And and she was surprised andshe said, like why did you tell
me at the end of the project?
And I said you never asked me.
So I have the potential.
I mean now, whatever I want todo, give it, try, put hard work
(16:57):
into it in turns.
I mean, right now I'm intogreen vehicle technology.
I'm studying green vehicles atAmerican River College and some
of my friends.
They told me, like man, youshould be teaching, you should
be working in an office.
What are you doing?
Like you know, I love cars andthat's why I got into like.
(17:19):
I see it from the businessperspective as well California
green future business as well,but I'm into it and I like I
learn it.
It's fun.
ME (17:31):
You know playing around with it, right?
Yeah, you love cars Like whywould you not get in a field
that involves that as well?
That's awesome, damn it.
I had a really good question.
Oh, oh, oh, no-transcript foryou to want to continue your
(18:07):
education so it.
BAKHTIAR (18:10):
it's like my previous professions, like law and and
anti-corruption and publicinternational law and politics.
That's the profession that Idon't really look at it from the
perspective of, you know,financial perspective.
That's a goal that I will livemy life with it and I do it.
(18:32):
I've been teaching law forseven years and I never go to a
university to ask them, like youknow, how much is my salary?
and stuff and I would do it aslong as it exists.
It doesn't matter if someonepays me or not.
But the other part of my lifeis, you know, my financial
(18:54):
stability as well as animmigrant, because when you
destabilize and move, you haveto build things from scratch.
And I think, whatever I'mstudying right now, one is my
interest and, as I said, I lovecars.
I want to play around with themand beside that, I see the
(19:15):
financial opportunity as abusiness as well.
So you know you can play aroundwith the things that you love,
but definitely I will be.
I will once I set up thebusiness and you know it will
take five, ten years and thenI'll go back and do my PhD and
maybe start teaching at one ofthe universities for free haha,
(19:35):
there you go.
ME (19:36):
When you get to that level, like, why not help out and give
back?
That's amazing man.
Um, so was it United Stars, jmi?
If, what is that okay, soeducation, we got that down.
Um, when did you?
Uh, how did you, how did youand your wife meet, though that
(19:57):
you, you had already graduated,right like your first?
Uh, you got your bachelor's uh,yeah, so I.
BAKHTIAR (20:02):
And then, how did I meet my?
wife, yeah, yeah and how did weengage in marriage?
So you know we are.
I'm an afghan, most of afghans.
We live a traditional life,while I wouldn't say that's the
case for every Afghan.
My sister, she married tosomeone she loved and she knew.
And my brother, he married tosomeone he knew and you know
(20:26):
they got engaged and marriedeach other.
For me it was different.
I was busy with my studies andmy life and I didn't have an
opportunity to look around.
And when my younger brother,who lives now in Sydney, he got
engaged and my mother'sattention was on me, like look
(20:46):
at your younger brother, he gotengaged and you are like single
right now.
Do you know anyone?
Because we are, while we are,traditional community in society
, but our family, they, they dorespect, like you know, if you
like someone yes, that's goodthen I told her, like I don't
know anyone and I have, I haveno idea then my mother she was I
(21:13):
mean in contact with she was,since she was teaching in school
.
She got connected and found mywife yeah and yeah that's.
She showed her picture to me andtold me about their family and
yeah and yeah, and the one word,the word that I had to my
(21:34):
mother, it's like you know, I'llmake sure to keep her happy as
long as she is also, you know,part of our big family taking
care of you people.
ME (21:43):
Yeah.
BAKHTIAR (21:44):
And it happened Like we hit it very strong.
I have never heard of a lot ofpeople that they don't know each
other.
They got engaged and marriedfor 11 years than we are right
now.
You never really heard that.
I'm not saying that we don'tknow each other.
They got engaged and marriedfor 11 years than we are right
now.
You never really had that.
I'm not saying that we don'targue.
We have conflict of interestsometimes, of course.
Yeah, but even with thatconflict of interest, we come
(22:05):
together with the one shared andcommon goal to live together
and, you know, proceed with thegood days we had and the hard
days we have right now.
There is turbulence all thetime there.
(22:29):
Yeah, it's right now.
I feel I'm one of the luckiesthaving her.
Yeah, I have beautiful,beautiful kids, yeah, and I
think, um, they will one day beserving this nation, in this
country, in the interest of this, this country, and I'm proud of
them.
They are my daughter.
She is a proud girl, I love her.
(22:52):
And my son he's a veryintelligent and talented boy.
ME (22:56):
I can see that.
That's awesome man, and I lovethat you have those goals set
that they're going to be givingback to this place too as well,
right, I mean, I don't feelbeing strange to this community,
to this environment to thiscountry.
BAKHTIAR (23:15):
I do understand politics but you know it really
matters in terms of how I getback from people around me.
I've never been discriminated.
As I said, there are here andthere, but I know how to defend
myself.
But overall, I mean, if I'mhere, this nation deserves, you
(23:35):
know, serving back Because theylive here.
I'll be a US citizen in acouple of months and I mean the
oath we take.
It's going to be the oath, yeah.
ME (23:48):
That's amazing Random question.
So you got married five yearsago 11 years.
BAKHTIAR (23:54):
11 years ago.
ME (23:55):
Um, before that, what is the dating scene look like for you?
You're so crazy busy withschool, travel and everything.
How like, how did that work foryou at the time?
BAKHTIAR (24:04):
so I mean one thing that's very uh kind of um, I
mean dating people before youwere married it's it's kind of I
mean, people do it and I neverhad a chance.
I mean, there are two thingsmaybe I was very, you know, not
charming guy.
(24:24):
No one was interested in me.
Or maybe I didn't have the thetime one thing that I realized
that you should have the skillto connect with people and
communicate.
I don't know, maybe I didn'thave the skill to.
You know, I think I still likea shy guy when it comes to I'm
(24:46):
very social, but I think I'mstill a shy guy when it comes to
connecting with ladies yeah, Imean so I think that was the
reason.
With no chance, but once I'mconnected to people, like you
know, they found, they will find.
Like you, I'm a very socializedguy, uh, yeah first
interactions are kind of toughfor people, yeah, yeah um, so
(25:10):
that's good to hear.
ME (25:12):
I want to go to.
We got fatherhood traveling.
This is going to be a good one.
I travel a lot.
I've been traveling my wholelife.
You have also been travelingyour whole life.
How many different countrieshave you been to?
BAKHTIAR (25:26):
I think I've been to all four continents.
All of them I've been to.
So I was immigrant to Pakistan,where I spent nine years.
Then I had the opportunity totravel twice to Pakistan in 2016
.
I've been to India, I've beento Turkey.
(25:47):
I've been to Austria, toGermany, to Czech, to Slovak.
I've been to Australia lastyear twice.
Yeah, that's pretty much.
I've visited these countries inthe United States.
He, I didn't say you guys know,the first time I flew in a
(26:11):
airplane airplane was in 2010really while I was heading to
united states and I was superexcited to be on an airplane I
couldn't even imagine that manfor the first time ever, going
over there yeah uh, from like tvand movies and everything and
what you hear about the unitedstates.
ME (26:33):
Did it live up to that when you got here?
BAKHTIAR (26:36):
well in.
In terms of, in terms of theenvironment, I would say, uh,
yes, that's what you see andwhat, what you, what you expect
and what you see.
But there are differentperspectives.
In terms of when you were firstlanding into a country and you
see people and the environment,the culture might look a little
(26:59):
bit different than the one youlive in.
I mean, for me it wasn'tdifferent because I lived my
life while I was a child inRussia, so it wasn't very
different in terms of thetraditions and culture and
religion wasn't very differentin terms of the traditions and
culture and religion.
But to a lot of my colleagueswho traveled with me at the time
it was very different.
(27:20):
Yeah, true, and this is one ofthe one of the challenges I
think the Afghan community orthe Islam Islamic traditional
communities have in here in theUnited States that prevents them
from being connected to, toother people.
You know, they think they aretreated differently, while I
(27:41):
think they are not.
Yeah, but they should.
They should break, break thoseboundaries and start connecting
with, with the real world.
Yeah, you know, if you look atevery community here in in the
US, for instance, the Afghancommunity, indian communities,
ukrainians, or you look atothers, they're all kind of
(28:04):
strictly within the boundariesof their own communities.
They less communicate withother people, so that even
causes kind of a misperceptionand understanding that you know,
maybe these immigrants are kindof wild, they are not used to
our traditions and environmentand our communities.
(28:27):
While I think that there shouldbe an interaction, you know,
know, in terms of those who wereemigrated to this country 100
years ago, yeah, or maybe I callit the Americans.
Yeah, they should get in touchwith these people, learn from
them, or let the immigrantslearn from the culture, from the
(28:53):
society, from the food and theway they look at the world.
I mean, that's important.
ME (28:58):
Why do you think they're so unwilling to want to learn and
adapt?
BAKHTIAR (29:03):
I think the first thing that I see myself as an
immigrant is that I thinksometimes that if I connect with
people here other than our owncommunities, our acceptance rate
might be very low.
And you know, that's something,and I think right now, while I
(29:27):
speak to you, my language mightbe as broken as you can think of
.
And the second thing I see isthe language barrier.
So when they communicate, theythink I can't talk, you know.
But what?
One thing that I realize isthat as long as you can carry
(29:49):
few words to tell someonesomething, and if they are
interested, they will listen toyou.
Never mind they will, they willconnect with you regardless of
your language capabilities.
Yes, but yeah, these are the twothings that I think are
currently preventing most of thecommunities that maybe if I
(30:10):
connect with an american whileI'm an immigrant, they will see
me differently because of my.
That's what we define beforeconnecting.
You know, what I would say isthat every community you know,
I'm not saying about the Afghancommunity every community should
, you know, start engaging.
(30:31):
I've never seen there might besome people that they are not
interesting to hear about us,yeah, but most of them will, you
know, and particularly if youare well educated, you know your
boundaries, you know we should,we should yeah, no, absolutely.
ME (30:50):
When I was a kid, I there was a huge language barrier when
I went to portugal every summer.
Right when we came back to theus, my dad never spoke it to us
so we never, you know, kept it,uh, but when we went there, even
though we'd speak four or fivewords to someone, they still
were so happy that we were there, you know, like, because we
only got to visit once everyyear or whatever, so even if we
(31:12):
could barely understand eachother, it was enough to like,
feel at home, you know and and Ithink, uh, there could be like,
maybe, programs like whenpeople come over, like like,
because I see a lot of thingwhen it comes to immigration
where nobody can name thefounding fathers and all that
stuff, like, right, you shouldbe able to like pass a test or
(31:32):
something um.
BAKHTIAR (31:34):
But I do think there should be more like integration
of culture and I see that thereare a lot of programs run by the
immigrant-based organizationshere in the US, particularly, I
think there is one IRC,international Rescue Committee.
What they do, I mean, with allthe pros they have providing
(31:57):
help for resettlement, theydon't have such programs.
Where they can, you know,solely think of a clear
integration within the uscommunity.
And that's what I see is likeif we are heading to college,
right, so you will see two,three afghans sitting together
and away from the others, youknow, and what I see, like tell
(32:21):
them like you go to school oryou are connected somewhere.
You know you are in a coffeeshop, talk to people yeah you
know, let them know about you.
Uh, talk to them, you know, letthem know that they.
One thing that I know like theUnited States, immigrants are
the sole portion of the UnitedStates right now, regardless of
(32:43):
the politics will ignore it orwill accept it.
The people they have to cometogether and do things together.
Absolutely, they shouldintegrate.
And, paul, I mean in terms ofthese nonprofit organizations
they should integrate.
And nepal, I mean in terms ofthese non-profit organizations.
They should also have someprograms where it starts very
small, like if, if I was leadingany of those organizations, I
(33:04):
will, it would have been veryimportant for the state as well.
I will just make uh, what theydo right now is that, you know,
know, for Afghans, they make aceremony or a festival where all
Afghans come together.
Yeah, yeah, like, make afestival.
They don't have that.
Make a festival where Americanswho lived here will come
(33:26):
together with immigrants and letthem talk about their self, you
know.
Let them engage, let them sharetheir ideas.
You know.
Know neighbors to neighbor.
That will give them moreunderstanding of these
immigrants.
Should you be scared of them inthe coming 20 years?
Should you be scared of theirkids in coming 10 years?
You know, I've seen people.
(33:47):
They live in our neighborhoodand they don't know me right,
yeah.
I have one neighbor who havebeen to Afghanistan.
He was in Kandahar, yeah, andhe would say like in pashto to
me, like hey, sangay, how areyou doing?
and stuff and he's connectedbecause he has an understanding
of an afghan who he lived withback in afghanistan and he knows
(34:09):
that these people they are,that you can trust them and you
can live your life, you canintegrate, you can communicate,
but those they don't know theymight be scared of.
Like, okay, even if I sit in anuber, if I see this guy having
a beard and a little bitbrownish color, yeah, like,
let's not talk to him I don'tknow my whole life.
ME (34:30):
All I want to do is just get to know people and understand
people.
So, and then there's also thatcommonality that I was in
Afghanistan too.
So, since we're like on thatsubject, I remember we were
walking here and we brought upthe question about you're asking
me, if you want to ask it again, why the Americans are dealing
(34:53):
with the PTSD and the depressionthe way that they do, when
somebody like yourself was kindof brought up in it and you know
you seem to be doing very soundmentally.
You know what I mean To anextent, to an extent, yeah, yeah
.
So what was the question exactly?
So my was that you told meabout your story that you have
(35:15):
been once you were in after uhbeing in afghanistan like you've
been to through a trauma anddepression and uh, and then I
ask you the question that whatis it that makes you as such,
because you spend like one year
, but as I told you me I spent.
BAKHTIAR (35:37):
I'm 38 and I think the day I born there were rockets
coming.
Yeah, all over the hospital yeah, you know and even with that,
you know we I'd also lived mylife in military camps back in
afghanistan where there were,you know, suicide attacks and
and shooting, and you know thebombings and everything, and
(35:58):
even we were higher targets, youknow, because you would just
walk home and if they realizedthey would kill us right away
but there was not thatdepression exists at the time,
and I mean you don't have timeto be depressed when your life
is on the line at all times.
so my was like why are you?
(36:20):
And, as I told you, I've seen alot of documentaries and stuff
where the US military and armyforces, they were badly
depressed while being in c ombatzones in Iraq or Afghanistan,
while being in combat zones inIraq or Afghanistan, and I said
like is there any way we, asAfghans who lived their whole
life in combat zone, would beable to help RJ and such as you?
ME (36:53):
I mean, I'm not sure if it's something that can be taught to
fix, because it's kind of justhow I like repeating what I say.
I think it's just kind of howwe were raised, like the way we
were brought up, right.
Like this is not a desert.
This has you know electricity.
This has paved roads.
This has anything we want is atour fingertips.
Right.
It's like so we're so babied wehave everything.
(37:14):
You sign up to go do something.
You don't know exactly what.
That is right.
Like we don't have to wake upto rockets every day.
So it's not like ingrained inus to be afraid of things like
that.
So when you go out there afterthis life, you know whether it's
a good life or a bad life thatyou lived before you go off and
deploy.
It's still not the life you'reabout to live.
(37:40):
It's so vastly different thananything you've ever experienced
, but for you, that's all youexperience.
Yeah, so I think it's justprogramming.
You know, uh, as a child, whileyour brain's developing,
they're the most important yearsof your life, of becoming who
you are as a person.
And, uh, if all of that isfilled with trauma, um, or or if
it's all filled with what it is, you know, negative, even if it
(38:01):
is super negative, but if it'sall you know, it's all you know.
So you're so very appreciative,like the fact that you left and
came over here.
You'll never have to deal withthat ever again.
Right, like that alone shouldkeep you from being depressed.
You know, and and I'm sure thatdoes in a way, right, it built
you for that, but I don't knowfor other people.
(38:21):
I know I know for me inparticular.
I'm very close to people.
I consider myself an empath.
My feelings I can't hide them,right, like if I'm sad, you're
going to see it on my face.
If I'm happy, you're going tosee it on my face.
That's just how I am.
I'm up front with who I am andmy feelings.
It was almost not having todeal with that anymore was a
(38:51):
good thing, but I feel like Ilost a certain family or a
special bond that I had thatI'll never get again and that
when I became a civilian and Iwent out into the world although
that was a traumatic time andexperience uh, although that was
(39:15):
a traumatic time and experienceuh, I'm more depressed that I
don't have those people to relyon, the people that I trust,
that have your back, no matterwhat.
That it doesn't matter.
If mortars are flying, uh, youknow, 20 feet from your, from
your tent or whatever, at leastyou're running out there with a
guy that you know will never doyou dirty.
He's always going to hold you,hold you down.
You know, have your back.
He's going to be there to youknow, uh, it's so lost in this
(39:38):
society out here, um, and andand that's that's kind of like a
big thing that that fucks withme.
Uh, I've always been ingrainedto deal with loss and trauma
Like my whole life has been likea crazy ride, so, like in my
head, that's normal stuff.
(39:59):
But for other people, if you'rejust thrown out there and you're
18 years old and all you knewyour whole life was working on a
farm and playing football,that's a big deal to watch.
Watch somebody bleed out or to,you know, kick somebody.
Make sure their eyeballs aren'tmoving so that way you know
they're not going to get up andkill you, like those are.
Those are.
Those are just different things.
(40:20):
We're not you.
You, you were probably used tosleeping in wherever you could.
You know what I mean.
Like, uh, we have beautifulbedrooms and air conditioners
and everything you know.
So it's like, once you flipthat switch, to be in that more
like primal state of mind.
I don't think it's not easy tolike turn that off.
BAKHTIAR (40:41):
I think that's how you define it.
You know, to an extent I agreewith you, but if you look at me,
I never been into any combatzone or I never been in army, I
never had an arm or any gun, butI did live right.
(41:02):
And the point is I spent all mylife studying, all my life
studying.
You know I had never beenengaged, but, yeah, one thing
that is that that I have seenwas that where I agree with you
is that, yeah, there wereexplosions, there were people
(41:23):
killed, that same thing that youhave seen on the news, and I
saw it maybe a little bit closersometime.
You know, but overall it's allour own mindset on how we can,
you know, train our mind tothink.
Take things simple, you know,and that is where it works, with
(41:47):
everything that's we call.
They call it a crisismanagement, and you can be
sitting in a nice garden, likeyou're sitting here, nice view,
old Sacramento, a town of 1800.
No one's bothering us, but youare still depressed for no
reason.
And it's what and how you areputting your mind.
(42:12):
If I tell you, when I left thecountry and I came to the United
States permanently, I wentthrough a lot of hard time and
depression, I don't know, whileI'm resisting, but I don't know
whether I'm good or not.
Either I am good or not,because it's not only those
bombs.
There is another sort of lifethat you have to fight for.
(42:36):
You have to find your socialposition again, that you lost
Education, people, life, respect, and now I'm an Uber or Lyft
driver.
So there is this big gap and Imean in terms of that depression
and anxiety and trauma.
(42:56):
You can they can't be differentthan each other.
A lot I know and like the wayright now I'm fighting, it's, I
would tell you, it's not likeonly me, but thousands of of
talars are fighting, yeah, thatdepression, and they are
fighting for their future herein the united states.
(43:17):
It's not less than being in acombat zone yeah, no, you know
you were a teacher.
You were, you have been teachingat the university.
No one gives you a shit rightnow being an Uber driver.
They see you as an illiterate,right, I used to work.
I had a very nice job.
I had a good business that Iwas running, so I studied a lot.
(43:38):
I put all the hard work and theresult would be being an Uber
and Lyft driver.
You know, I had a nice homewhere I was living the nice bed
that you defined home, where Iwas living the nice bed that you
defined.
Now I live in a small apartmentwhere, you know, all
cockroaches are on my head dayand night.
But I am fighting.
(43:59):
It's to me, to me.
Being in Afghanistan with thoserockets was a war zone, but
right now, dealing with all thisdepression is is is another, is
another war that I am fighting.
But I never surrender.
I'm strongly fighting back.
You know I was working as asoftware developer.
(44:21):
They laid me off.
One thing that I know for sureabout myself when, when
something goes down for me, Iwould, I would keep that smile.
Yeah, and I was.
I was fired once and the HRmanager came to me said I mean,
we fired those other guys andtheir color is yellow.
(44:41):
Shit, they, they, they barelybreathe.
Yeah, why you are smiling, whyyou keep bluffing?
And I said, like man, if youfired me, it doesn't mean that I
wouldn't have another job.
You know, I will try to comeback here and work with you
again and I have that confident.
Yeah, trust me, I was at home,spent two months, enjoyed my
(45:04):
life and come, came back and siton the same desk again.
That's the level of confidencewhere you can fight back with
the depression that you haveyeah, it's, you're so right,
you're so right it.
ME (45:16):
You have to actually go through those dark times and
pull yourself out of them, orelse the good things you get
don't really matter.
Yeah, you have to do that, um.
So I'm really glad you saidthat it is a war that you're
fighting as well.
So I think another thing iscombating the depression.
People go straight to alcoholand drugs.
BAKHTIAR (45:37):
You know what I mean?
That's another depression.
ME (45:39):
Exactly, and so I think, is that a cultural difference, do
you think?
Do you think us like?
As Americans, we chase ourfeelings, our pain and
depression with drugs andalcohol.
Well, I think, because you'renot out of control right now, we
chase our, our feelings, ourpain and depression with with
drugs and alcohol.
Well, Well, I think you're notout of control right now, like
so what, what, what?
BAKHTIAR (45:55):
here is like.
There are two perspectives onthis.
One is the, the perspectivethat you know the business world
and Some people would tell youthat, you know, if you were
depressed, go take these taps,you know.
And the other would say like,go, you know, have a smoke oh
(46:16):
yeah, go, you know, try weed ormarijuana.
It's good for your depression.
That's one mindset I havestudied and I taught criminology
yes where it is, the study ofthe reason for people committing
a crime.
And there are, there are allthoughts that you know, if you
are on drugs, right, that drugpeople might think it's gonna
(46:40):
harm me only than no one else,or it will help me reduce my
depression or fight a reduce mydepression or fight a problem
that I have, which it is not,you know, that will feel.
You know, good, the firstcouple of times that you use it.
But if you are not using it thenyou will be depressed.
(47:01):
For instance, go to the, to tothe pharmacies, and you know
people they take thosedepression pills,
anti-depression pills, you knowover the counter and they just
use it.
That's normal life.
I've never, maybe throughout mylife, I have took maybe I took
(47:21):
twice the anti-depression tabs,yeah, and it was once here in
the United States where I gotdepressed and then I knew it
will not help me permanently,but temporarily it can help you.
But the other point is that youknow people believe in religion,
(47:42):
they have some faith and theygo and pray and then they come
back and they are relieved, theway they say like okay, yeah,
god says there are hard days,there are good days, you have to
do this and that, and they prayand they come stronger, right,
that is another way where you doit.
(48:03):
And the next way, like if wecompare it to our own cultures,
right, it's like people are intodrugs to treat depression.
I even know doctors.
They are psychiatrists, butthey are on drugs, and I'm
(48:24):
talking about my own country.
I've seen people they tell yougo, submit to God, pray, be with
yourself and your god.
And then there is another,another group.
They will tell you.
Like you know, beside whateveryou do, continuous exercise will
help you fight depression andand I think one of the ways I
(48:47):
was, I was I was able to findFight my, my war of depression.
Being in the United States.
Many immigrants will hide it,yeah, you know, but that's the
reality, yeah, and that was thatyou have to be at the gym, no
matter what, every day, everyday, two hours, one and a half
(49:12):
hour, just you know, play aroundwith all these needles.
It's actually really good, youknow, run and walk it, it keeps
you very stable than you know.
Being on on on drugs, we know,like you know, drugs.
ME (49:23):
How would that help you being uh, uh, using
antidepressant, antidepressantdrugs, and you, you'll be very
happy I've been off of all ofthose for a lot of years, uh,
mostly because I I dove intopsychedelics and mushroom
psilocybin stuff like that.
Uh, I'm, I'm into things alongthe lines of it comes from the
(49:46):
earth, then most likely it'sgood for us.
You know, like uh, there'sdifferent ways to look at that
to an extent, yeah um, but Iwould still rather go that route
than go into the pharmacy anyday of the week and I mean what
I, what I understand?
BAKHTIAR (50:00):
uh, like, whatever that exists in the nature there
is.
There are things good, thereare things bad.
You know, let me tell you of ofthe explosives, right, it's bad
because you can make of it abomb and kill someone.
It's good where you can use itfor good purpose, like the
(50:22):
nuclear energy, and stuff youknow.
So everyone should look at itfrom the perspective.
From that perspective, likewe'd say, okay, for instance,
psyched Alex, I've seen have youseen, a documentary on Netflix
called Wild, wild Country?
ME (50:42):
Yes, of course.
BAKHTIAR (50:46):
You know, they were using that you know, and mixing
it with the think of religionand Buddhist thoughts and
whatever.
And then they will say, likeyou know, we treat people that
they are depressed, and have youseen how they were left again
in a very bad situation.
It all depends from which angleyou are using this environment
(51:10):
and whatever is in it,regardless of your faith,
regardless of your religion.
What I think is that God gavehumans that brain and the
independence to think aboutstuff.
I have seen many people when itcomes to religious beliefs.
(51:30):
They say there is a belief thatyou should believe.
Don't talk about it anymorebecause you know you are not
allowed.
But I say think as much as youcan, god.
That's why god brought you inhere to think, explore, have
things, enjoy them, but as longas you are not harming yourself.
ME (51:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, this is the most safest andmost least turbulent and the
most stable part of my liferight now, and I do attribute a
lot of that to not drinkinganymore.
That was a big one for me, butthat's my journey, though.
(52:10):
You know everybody.
I want everybody to justdrinking anymore.
That was a big one for me, butthat's my journey, though.
You know everybody.
I want everybody to just behappy.
You know, whatever makes youhappy, long as you're not
hurting anybody else, then toeach their own.
You know, we'll do a couplemore questions and we'll finish
off here in a little bit, do you?
We were talking about theintegration process of
immigrants in here.
How much do you think religionplays a part in the not wanting
(52:38):
to combine?
Maybe because different faithssometimes can conflict.
BAKHTIAR (52:41):
What are your thoughts on that?
That's a good question.
I mean, for some Muslims itmight be a barrier that prevents
, and I think the beauty of thiscountry is that, based on the
US Constitution, you have theright to religion and it didn't
(53:05):
define that if you are in thisterritory, then you should
follow this religion, didn'tdefine that you, if you are in
this territory, then you shouldfollow this religion, and that
what gives, I mean to me as amuslim, it's it's first thing is
that I have not been preventedso I can exercise my religion.
First, that that tells me a lotabout this society, in this
(53:26):
community, in this country, yeah, and the people.
And the second thing withregard to integration is the is
religion causing or not?
I would say, if muslims theyhave a good historical study,
yeah, then they would realizethat you know, the difference
(53:48):
between religions is somethingthat you can.
As our, our own, our ownreligion says that everyone has
the right to religion and theyhave the right to practice their
religion.
So if, if, if I, as a muslim,practice and someone else, as a
christian or jewish, practicetheir own religion, that should
(54:10):
not bother me, and that's whatmy, my religion taught me.
The real religion, the realreligion.
I'm not talking about theradical religion interpretation
that wants me to hate a Judas ora Christian or a Buddhist.
You know, if you look at itfrom the historic perspective,
you know Muslims.
(54:30):
They used to live shoulder toshoulder in one community with
Christians, with Jews, in aplace where it's been a war zone
for 70 years I'm talking aboutJerusalem.
You know they used to livetogether, they shared the
(54:51):
finances, they do businesstogether and look at it from
different perspectives.
So there are two things ForMuslims they should understand
if they don't, that you knowthat's what the real Islam is.
And for those, for non-Muslims,that we are in their country,
(55:14):
they should also understand that.
Okay, yeah, for most of them Ithink it is, but for some of
them that might be they might beconsidering them that we are
practicing a religion which is aradical religion.
One thing that I see the beautyof Muslims in the United States
is that most of Muslims in theUnited States they are the real
(55:40):
and true Muslims.
They are, I mean, I wouldn'tsay 100%, but 99% of them are
not radical Muslims.
ME (55:50):
I agree with that.
BAKHTIAR (55:51):
Have you been to Texas and there is a guy named Norman
Ali Khan.
This guy, he teaches you andgives you a perspective of
beauty of the religion of Islam.
Right, even like that is a hottopic today in Afghanistan, even
like that is a hot topic todayin Afghanistan that you know,
(56:13):
taliban wants women to becovered fully when they go out.
And I mean this guy will comeand teach you the way that, if
in some cases, even you don'tneed to, you know, cover your
hair, your face.
It all depends on that.
You have to look at theenvironment in the community,
(56:38):
for instance.
He says if you go to youroffice and all of a sudden you
see that covering your head,which most Muslims do, will
prevent you from employment, youknow, then don't wear it.
Then don't wear it.
Yeah, but the beauty I see here, like I go to college, I did
(57:00):
work.
You know my wife, she'sstudying at the university.
She would go with her headcovered.
You know she wears the way sheshould.
No one bothers and no onedisrespects her.
You know, and I think to anextent they are respected as
well, in a way that you know sheis a traditional woman yeah you
know they people, the momentthey, they, they, they get in
(57:24):
touch, they start to know alittle bit more about the
boundaries of, like you know,the way you talk to someone else
you cannot talk to.
You wouldn't talk to a Muslimgirl you meet.
You know she's covered up in away.
So I think that's the beautyand I think both sides like I'm
talking about Muslims theyshould integrate into other
(57:45):
communities.
One is it depends, relates to,to every human.
Like you know, if I want tofollow another religion, right,
there are some strict boundariesthat I wouldn't talk about it
like it's.
That's the interpretation.
People say like in islam, youcannot convert into other
religion or you I wouldn't talkabout those things because
(58:08):
that's most complicated andphilosophical stuff that will
take a lot of time it's notneeded like yeah, but overall I
would say like, let's integrate,let's know each other.
End of the day, there is onereligion and we call it the
religion of god and that ends tohumanity.
Right, and we, regardless ofour religion, faith, believe we
(58:31):
should treat each other firstthing, first, as a human.
Yes, it doesn't matter what isyour color, what is your
religion, what do you believe in?
Right, yeah, you should.
We should treat each other as ahuman.
I feel very sorry for the worldtoday.
(58:51):
If, I mean, it's beenthroughout the history, you know
they fight for the name ofreligion they fought, fight for,
for economy or whatever.
But if, if people think ofstuff, the way that we are all
human and we have human rightsand we should treat each other
(59:13):
with humanity, I think no onewill will stand up and kill
another human.
I think, and I believe thecreator of this, this planet, in
this world yeah, right, putenough resources in this planet.
You know that we can foreveryone, but it's we humans
(59:35):
that we are unjust.
You know I'm not saying that.
You know there shouldn't be acapitalist world, there
shouldn't be a liberal market.
What I understand is that thereshould be an equal distribution
of wealth for hard work andtalent and intelligence of every
human, absolutely you know,which I think is not.
(59:57):
We are heading somewhere to getsomeone's wealth and believing
that, you know, if I take yourwealth, there is, you know,
wealth for me and a prosperouslife, which I don't think.
So that is the case.
Yeah, I don't think so either.
ME (01:00:14):
Uh-huh, dang it.
Sorry, go ahead, get all thisstuff out, like, see, okay, I'm
(01:00:35):
really glad we talked about allof that.
Honestly, I think, um, that'swhat I was gonna say.
So, when you talk about humans,the human experience, that's
what we are right, it doesn'tmatter.
That's how I grew up.
For whatever reason, no matterwhat, I couldn't, I cannot see,
like, obviously we're differentskin colors, but that's never
mattered to me my entire life.
I grew up around nothing butblack people, mex people.
(01:00:58):
I'm not.
I'm like Portuguese, where Ilived over in Modesto, like I
was like a white boy there,right, just because the way I
grew up.
So I never have been able tosee the difference in people
like, like in the best waypossible.
It's like I'm colorblind andthat's kind of why, like I
started doing this, I didn'trealize how much, all over that
(01:01:19):
we're so quick to judge or we'reso quick to discriminate, you
know, and sometimes it's noteven on purpose, it's just like
in you, it's just the way we'rebuilt, um, so I think that I
know in our country we have.
BAKHTIAR (01:01:31):
We have a small country of 30 million people.
So we also have differenttribes and cultures and stuff.
And there comes a little bit ofdiscrimination in there as well.
So what I understand is thatpeople do not play any role in
(01:01:52):
discriminating people.
Any role in discriminatingpeople.
They it's kind of politicsplays a key role in shaping that
.
You know, hate anddiscrimination.
That is that's what Iunderstood.
Like you know, and it's notthat you know, our country maybe
(01:02:13):
has 15% illiterate populationand 30 or 65 or 70% illiterate
population, but overall when yousee the illiterate population,
they live without anydiscrimination.
You know they live alongsideeach other but they educate they
(01:02:34):
, they know politics and thenthey come together, sit with
what went with a group of peoplewhose political interest
defines to be to discriminate,so they benefit from I think I
think with higher education andsome type of classism, yeah, and
true, true and uh, you know,whether you you want it or not,
(01:02:58):
like who you're with around atall times.
ME (01:03:01):
I think that, in general, whoever is close to you, that
you surround yourself with, it'simportant that those people are
good people or want what's bestfor you, or have goals and are
heading in the right direction,because you're just like a
little bit of everyone aroundyou.
Yeah, so, um, I think whenyou're in that field of academia
, of very higher end sort ofsociety, minds there comes with
(01:03:24):
what you say like so there isone thing high academia they are
, to me, complete people.
BAKHTIAR (01:03:32):
You know there is a circle for education and being
academic and scholar and and Idon't, they are good human.
If you are not going throughthat circle right or completing
the circle, and you miss any dotor a couple of dots in that
circle, then the circle is notcomplete.
That's where this stuff comes.
(01:03:55):
You know when we are talkingabout.
Like you know, I have I spentmy life being an academic and
around people who were at theuniversity, might the teachers
and students.
Yeah, what I found, like peoplewho really go around the circle
and complete the circle.
They understand and they neverfall into the hands of of of
(01:04:18):
politics, where the politicsseems to be benefiting from,
from discrimination yes, youknow, that makes perfect sense
it really, it really does.
ME (01:04:28):
Um, I am going to go into.
We're over here, we're gettingclose to the end, but, uh, I've
learned about your past, alittle bit about your present.
Um, what are your future plans?
I know you're driving lyft oruber right now and good on you
for having this huge educationalbackground and not being too
good to do something like that.
(01:04:49):
So good on you.
But, um, what are your futureplans for you, your wife, your
kids?
Uh, with business?
Um, I'd like to know what yougot going ahead of you.
BAKHTIAR (01:04:58):
So right now I only have one goal.
I mean, I wouldn't call it agoal but a plan for the time
being.
ME (01:05:08):
Yeah.
BAKHTIAR (01:05:09):
And the plan is to set up to study, to complete my
associate with green vehicletechnology and start a small
business and get it go,stabilize the business.
And for my wife she willcomplete her education.
And you know, my wife and I wehave a company called Algo
(01:05:35):
Software.
We do software development.
We did train a lot of people onsoftwares for the last three
years and the goal of theirsetting up the company was, I
think, somewhere around one ofthese buildings, nice, of these
buildings there.
We I had my own office and butwe had to shut it down for
(01:05:58):
because of the economicturbulence but the goal is that
my wife will go complete hereducation and support algo soft
in the future amazing and yeah,I will, and the end goal will be
I'll do my PhD and the end goalwill be I'll do my PhD and go
and teach again.
And yeah, I mean it never endsfor me that I will, only because
(01:06:26):
I live in the United States.
The end of the day, it will beonly United States.
I still have the intention toserve Afghanistan.
I'm waiting for the timewhenever it's good, so I will
keep myself updated.
I follow the news.
I keep myself, unfortunately,good or bad.
(01:06:49):
I studied politics.
That's where I never I wouldn'tleave it.
So that's pretty much the planand the goal we have with my
kids.
There is different perspectiveof other people that I see, so
(01:07:09):
they educate their, their kids,only here, because they go to
school, they get a job or run abusiness.
But you know, I want my kids tobe culturally connected with
their home country as well, sothey know the values of those
people and and and and and thecountry as well.
(01:07:29):
So you never know if there isneed tomorrow or one day when
they grow up and they have toserve back the people in the
nation where they were oncebelonged to.
That's really so, that's thegoal.
So that's one of the reasons Ikeep my kids involved with the
(01:07:51):
Afghan community, so they learnfrom each other.
And, yeah, that's importantwith the afghan community.
So they learn from each otherand, yeah, that's so they grow,
uh, as a afghan american whoknows both values at the same
time that's important, and thenespecially showing them, you
know uh, it gives youappreciation for what you have
here, you know.
ME (01:08:09):
So I do think that's very important.
Um, I do.
You have.
Oh, I was just gonna say onething.
Uh, we were talking aboutnon-profit and stuff.
So that's what I'm doing withthis, like it's just an llc
right now.
The podcast.
I'm traveling, interviewingpeople.
Uh, the money stuff will comewhen it.
When it comes, you know, andI'm not worried about that at
all, but everything that hascome is just getting reinvested
(01:08:32):
into this anyways, so it reallydoesn't matter too much.
But once it I do get everythingset up, uh, for the non-profit,
I'm gonna be doing, um, shit.
Well, basically all the moneythat people can donate to this
is going to be helping thepeople that I talk to on the
podcast.
So you know you're doing allright, but you know, let's just
(01:08:54):
say you were somebody that wasin a much worse position.
Down on their luck, I'm goingto be able to help that person
get on their feet.
Maybe that's go to rehab, maybeit's a plane ticket home, see
their kid, like whatever.
Maybe that's kind of a thing Iwant to do with this as well, as
I told you about the therapyranch and everything.
So I'm fully engulfed in thisright now and all that is is
(01:09:17):
just trying to help people.
So I appreciate that, with allyou have going on, you still
have thoughts on wanting to giveback.
You know whether that's throughyour kids and you know that.
I think that's very important.
So, yeah, man, I think I thinkwe probably we did it.
I think we did a really goodone man.
I think I think we probably wedid it.
I think we did a really goodone man.
I just want to say thank you somuch.
BAKHTIAR (01:09:37):
My pleasure, my pleasure.
ME (01:09:39):
Seriously.
BAKHTIAR (01:09:40):
I would say to you, were you know viewers or whoever
is watching, I don't know.
Forgive me if I miss some ofthe words with the broken
English that I have.
It was pleasure talking to you,RJ.
ME (01:09:56):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
We're going to stay in contact.
BAKHTIAR (01:10:00):
And we're going to link up again.
I'm going to see where you'redoing, how you're doing All that
stuff, man, thanks again.
ME (01:10:05):
Thank you everybody for watching Until the next one.
Bye Peace, yeah, buddy.
Looking great.
Alright, let's do it Hello andwelcome to the Hanging with
Humans podcast.
This is your host, rj Ferreira,and I'm here in Sacramento,
california, with a new friend ofmine, bakhtiar.
What's his last name?
Bakhtiar Talash, true, doesthat work?
(00:22):
Yeah, that works.
And how old are you, bakhtiar?
BAKHTIAR (00:25):
I'm 38.
ME (00:26):
38.
Sacramento, california, iswhere we're at, but where were
you born, sir?
BAKHTIAR (00:30):
I was born and raised in Afghanistan.
ME (00:32):
In Afghanistan.
Yeah, what part?
BAKHTIAR (00:36):
I was born in Kabul and I spent 20 years of my life
something in Afghanistan, butI'm 38, so 18 years being
immigrant here and there, niceyeah.
ME (00:51):
How many years from when you left there the first time to
when was the last time you wentback?
So how many years apart?
Five years ago?
Five years ago?
Yeah, yeah, so the US wasn'tthe first place you moved to
outside of Afghanistan.
Yeah, yeah, so the US wasn'tthe first place you moved to
outside of Afghanistan?
BAKHTIAR (01:05):
No, no.
When I was five years old, myfather he was studying at the
time in Moscow.
He was doing his PhD, OK.
So we headed to Russia andliving in Russia for two years
and I was kid and then my fathermoved back to Afghanistan after
completing his PhD but he was aprofessor at the university, so
(01:31):
but there was issues like thatcauses us to move out of
Afghanistan.
And then we had to head back toPakistan and we were immigrants
in Pakistan for nine years.
That's where I been toelementary school and a portion
(01:51):
of my middle school I completedin Pakistan, mostly in the north
northwest provinces of Pakistan, which is a disputed territory
between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
ME (02:03):
Is that a?
How Americanized is the part ofPakistan that you went to
school at, and all that?
BAKHTIAR (02:10):
Americanized.
I didn't.
ME (02:12):
So like when, for instance, when I flew into Kabul for the
first time, there was like KFCand Starbucks and all that type
of stuff.
You know what I mean.
How is Pakistan in relation tolike that type of thing?
BAKHTIAR (02:25):
At the time when I was there and I was child.
I don't really remember that Ihave seen any KFC or McDonald's,
and even I traveled in 2016 toPakistan, and particularly in
Islamabad.
I have never seen anyMcDonald's or KFC, but when I
headed to India, there was KFCand McDonald's for sure.
ME (02:51):
India is one place I haven't traveled to yet, but I really
would like to do.
BAKHTIAR (02:54):
You recommend it yeah, yeah, it's a quite nice place,
nice historical.
I think yeah, to visitparticularly daily and some
other.
ME (03:03):
That would be really cool.
Um, so for context, uh, on howwe met um, I'm in sacramento, I
was gonna go to modesto, I justflew in from lax, um, but I'm on
my kind of work, traveling, uh,tour for the podcast and I'm
just trying to meet people alongthe way, people that I believe
(03:23):
have interesting stories thatcan make an impact in other
people's lives.
And the short conversation wehad in our Uber or Lyft, it was
funny.
When I showed up to jump inyour car, you were like hold on
my phone, it's rebooting becausehe was doing an update.
So we had to like hang out inthe car for a little bit and
chill.
So it's very nice to meet you.
BAKHTIAR (03:45):
Me too, yeah, and.
ME (03:47):
I appreciate you doing this for me, so we're going to jump
into some stuff.
I want to kind of begin withwith your childhood and this is
a question that just came up tome too.
So I didn't know that yourfather was like highly educated.
You know as well, highlyeducated as you know as well.
(04:09):
Um, how common is that?
Uh, like like there to likehave generationally families
that have like gone to school,got the?
You know you have two masterdegrees, don't you?
BAKHTIAR (04:14):
I have two, we'll get into that later, but yeah, um,
we are a family my sister, sheis currently doing her phd and
she, she lives in uk.
And my brother, he has twobachelors and a master's.
He is living in Australia andSydney, and my another brother,
he has a master's degree fromIndia, and my other brother, he
(04:39):
is right now studying civilengineering in UK hey, it's a
family of geniuses.
ME (04:46):
That's cool.
Who are you closest to out ofyour siblings?
BAKHTIAR (04:51):
I was very close to my father.
He passed away last year.
ME (04:55):
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
BAKHTIAR (04:57):
And he was not only a father, but he was a friend.
He was a brother and, yeah, hewas the closest I remember.
I've seen people when theirfathers are hard on them and
they say, like I don't like myfather because he's so hard, he
(05:20):
don't love me.
But whatever I am today andwhatever our family is today,
all of my siblings, my brothers,sisters it's all because of the
hard push by my father and I'vebeen through very hard
situations in my life but it'sbecause my father trained me as
(05:42):
hard so I be a very resilienthuman yes.
I, I love my mother too, but youknow, yeah, you learn what you
learn from who you learn fromthat's awesome, he sounds like a
very strong man.
ME (05:55):
Yeah, he was.
That's awesome man.
Um, what did?
What did your mother do?
BAKHTIAR (06:00):
my mother.
She was a teacher in Kabul.
She was teaching in a schooland, yeah, she spent all her
life teaching and educatingstudents and girls in
Afghanistan.
That's awesome.
And yeah, she studied.
She graduated long ago, that'sawesome.
ME (06:21):
Where is she at?
Now she's in Sydneyney,australia okay, with your sister
, with my with my brother and Ihave a little sister.
BAKHTIAR (06:32):
A little sister means she's 26, you just got engaged,
oh okay and, yeah, she lives, uh, with my sister right now.
When my father passed away,then my mother and sister they
live together, while my brotheris also close to them, so he
takes a good care of my motherand my sister.
ME (06:51):
That's awesome.
Is everybody in pretty goodcontact with each other, even
though you're so far away?
BAKHTIAR (06:55):
Yeah, yeah, we are.
We communicate with each other.
One thing that I learned frommy father was that you know, if
you are having good days,celebrate together, but if you
are having bad days, you must betogether.
ME (07:14):
Really.
BAKHTIAR (07:15):
So when it comes to any hard decision making in our
family since my father passedaway, then you know they shoot
me because I am the oldest son.
Yeah, yeah, oldest son, yeah,but I don't see myself to be the
oldest son.
I treat them all like friends.
Yeah, but yeah, we all together, particularly when it comes to
a hard situation.
(07:35):
Right now my brother is inAfghanistan one of my brother
and we are kind of trying totake him out of Afghanistan
because of the situation,because in our family everyone
is out.
And that's causing some doubtsthat he might be in risk.
So, yeah, that's the hard, andwe are all together to you know,
(07:57):
help him.
ME (07:58):
Yeah, what's the communication like with him
right now?
BAKHTIAR (08:02):
Yeah, we communicate.
I just talked to him today.
Uh, he might be moving soon toone of the, maybe to albania.
Okay, with her wife, and wewere all together before coming
here talking to you.
I'll just stand the phone withthem nice man.
ME (08:18):
That's awesome.
Well, I'm glad you guys havelike a plan and situation to try
to get him out.
BAKHTIAR (08:22):
How do we live in different continents?
It's crazy australia, us,europe and asia, but we are
still connected that's with theheart and mind that's so
important, man, it really is.
ME (08:34):
Um.
Family really is everything.
Um, so let's uh.
So you were born in Afghanistan, you lived in Pakistan, went to
school.
What does life in school likeafter that?
Where do you go to next?
BAKHTIAR (08:55):
So when the 9-11 happened, my father was in depth
of the politics of the time.
So two years before he was mysister, she was supposed to go
to college and we didn't havemoney for it.
So I was telling my sister,used to tell my dad that what we
(09:15):
do because I'm interested to goto college and she my father
says like yeah, you will go tocollege in Afghanistan.
And we were kind of amazed.
Like you know, we spent nineyears in pakistan, but how would
she go to college in a terriblecountry controlled by talibans
at the time?
But my father's predictions andhis thoughts were very keen.
(09:39):
And when the 9-11 happened, like, uh, right after we headed back
to our home country and startedliving and I finished my
seventh grade in Pakistan andthen continued with my higher
education in high school inAfghanistan.
And then, right after finishingmy high school, I headed to the
(10:03):
university and studied law andpolitics and then I had, during
the law school, I had theopportunity to represent my
country and the internationallaw moot court competitions that
I told you, jessup.
Yeah, so I representedAfghanistan in 2010 and that was
(10:25):
the first time I would say thatmy life got a new shape to be
connected with the uh, let'scall with the western world.
And then, up on my graduation,I had very good colleagues that
I named them them.
They were not only myinstructors but good friends who
(10:46):
instructed me and guided me towork with them.
And then I started working forthe US Department of State, for
the INL, and then, throughout Iwas single at the time got
married.
Now I have two beautiful kidsand my beautiful wife, and upon
(11:07):
completing my bachelor andhaving a job, I started studying
, never stopped.
ME (11:12):
Never stopped.
BAKHTIAR (11:13):
Did my first master's degree by 2014.
Nice, and then by 2016,.
I had an opportunity for amerit-based scholarship to
Australia and I studied with theInternational Anti-corruption
academy in austria.
Did my second master's degreeand, yeah, that was a joy headed
back worked for a little bit.
(11:34):
That's pretty much about myeducational life, that's amazing
man and I and we didn't talkabout the united states.
But but when I came to theUnited States because of my
anti-corruption studies, I waslooking around what to do.
So I did study a little bit andI got the membership of the
(11:57):
Association of CertifiedFinancial Crime Specialists and
did around 21 units with them.
I was their member until 2023.
And well, it's where the marketpushes you.
I did a boot camp on softwaredevelopment and then had an
(12:18):
opportunity to work with theworld's biggest companies.
ME (12:22):
Here in the US, I was employed by Apple as a software
developer yeah, and, and youwere telling me your wife's in
school right now for softwaredevelopment.
Yeah, yeah is that somethingyou pushed for her, or is it
something she kind of just likedto do on her own, or how did
that become?
BAKHTIAR (12:39):
well, there are things as a immigrant you have to
sacrifice when you are movingout of your comfort zone.
She studied law back inAfghanistan and she worked for
the United Nations with theWorld Food Program, wfp.
When we were heading to theUnited States, right before I
(13:05):
had a plan and I said like,because the legal systems are
different, so neither me nor herwill be able to work as a
lawyer or attorney here in theUnited States.
But there was this opportunityin the tech industry where there
is demand, and that's why Iencouraged her one year before
(13:26):
our move to the United States.
And now she's doing pretty well, completed her college and now
she's on her second semester.
ME (13:35):
I'm proud of her yeah, man, you should be.
Uh, california is a good placefor getting into the tech world,
for sure.
So that was a.
That was a solid move.
Um, so we've gone throughschooling a little bit.
Um, what is it like?
Um, so I'm actually I'm reallyglad that you brought this up,
you.
You were talking about your,your master's degree program and
(13:57):
how it was a merit-based uminvite through scholarship.
How is it?
How, how do you feel about thefact that it was something like?
You got this opportunitybecause of, surely, your hard
work and your, your brain, yourdetermination over the fact that
(14:18):
you know there are a lot ofprograms that not give these,
but you know these scholarshipsgo to, whether it's a certain
type of ethnicity or or other,whatever guidelines there are.
Um, that's got to feel good toto know that.
You know you battled througheverybody and you made it
through the top yeah, yeah, yeah.
BAKHTIAR (14:36):
I mean when uh, one of my friend he was studying for
the same program and he told methat give it a try.
And I, I never thought and I'mnot not thinking that, you know,
I'm an intelligent guy, or youknow but, I've been through the,
the interview and I have towrite some statements and stuff,
(14:59):
and the scholarship wasactually globally merit-based
and it was not like we hadscholarships back in Afghanistan
like Fulbright or Chevening, orwe had PPP they call it
public-private partnership heldby the US Embassy in Kabul, so
(15:22):
they were particularly forAfghans.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, embassy inKabul, so they were particularly
for Afghans yeah, and theprogram I got into was not
particularly for, you know,afghans, it was globally, yeah,
competitive scholarship.
I'm glad I made it.
Yeah, and I mean no one knowsits potential as long as someone
(15:46):
else measures it.
Whenever I meet people and Italk to them about what I did
and what I am doing, they tellme that you must be very
intelligent, maybe smart, andyou know, I don't see myself to
be very smart, very intelligent.
But one thing that I know Ihave a potential.
(16:09):
I'm giving an example.
I used to work On our way.
We had this discussion of youknow people will say he's good
for nothing in my office Onething that I realized and I
disclosed that to my supervisorat the time and I told her that
you give me the task and Icomplete those tasks very fast.
(16:31):
But I just want to let you knowthat you know you, throughout
the five years of the project,you didn't explore and extract
two percent of my energy.
And and she was surprised andshe said, like why did you tell
me at the end of the project?
And I said you never asked me.
So I have the potential.
I mean now, whatever I want todo, give it, try, put hard work
(16:57):
into it in turns.
I mean, right now I'm intogreen vehicle technology.
I'm studying green vehicles atAmerican River College and some
of my friends.
They told me, like man, youshould be teaching, you should
be working in an office.
What are you doing?
Like you know, I love cars andthat's why I got into like.
(17:19):
I see it from the businessperspective as well California
green future business as well,but I'm into it and I like I
learn it.
It's fun.
ME (17:31):
You know playing around with it, right?
Yeah, you love cars Like whywould you not get in a field
that involves that as well?
That's awesome, damn it.
I had a really good question.
Oh, oh, oh, no-transcript foryou to want to continue your
(18:07):
education so it.
BAKHTIAR (18:10):
it's like my previous professions, like law and and
anti-corruption and publicinternational law and politics.
That's the profession that Idon't really look at it from the
perspective of, you know,financial perspective.
That's a goal that I will livemy life with it and I do it.
(18:32):
I've been teaching law forseven years and I never go to a
university to ask them, like youknow, how much is my salary?
and stuff and I would do it aslong as it exists.
It doesn't matter if someonepays me or not.
But the other part of my lifeis, you know, my financial
(18:54):
stability as well as animmigrant, because when you
destabilize and move, you haveto build things from scratch.
And I think, whatever I'mstudying right now, one is my
interest and, as I said, I lovecars.
I want to play around with themand beside that, I see the
(19:15):
financial opportunity as abusiness as well.
So you know you can play aroundwith the things that you love,
but definitely I will be.
I will once I set up thebusiness and you know it will
take five, ten years and thenI'll go back and do my PhD and
maybe start teaching at one ofthe universities for free haha,
(19:35):
there you go.
ME (19:36):
When you get to that level, like, why not help out and give
back?
That's amazing man.
Um, so was it United Stars, jmi?
If, what is that okay, soeducation, we got that down.
Um, when did you?
Uh, how did you, how did youand your wife meet, though that
(19:57):
you, you had already graduated,right like your first?
Uh, you got your bachelor's uh,yeah, so I.
BAKHTIAR (20:02):
And then, how did I meet my?
wife, yeah, yeah and how did weengage in marriage?
So you know we are.
I'm an afghan, most of afghans.
We live a traditional life,while I wouldn't say that's the
case for every Afghan.
My sister, she married tosomeone she loved and she knew.
And my brother, he married tosomeone he knew and you know
(20:26):
they got engaged and marriedeach other.
For me it was different.
I was busy with my studies andmy life and I didn't have an
opportunity to look around.
And when my younger brother,who lives now in Sydney, he got
engaged and my mother'sattention was on me, like look
(20:46):
at your younger brother, he gotengaged and you are like single
right now.
Do you know anyone?
Because we are, while we are,traditional community in society
, but our family, they, they dorespect, like you know, if you
like someone yes, that's goodthen I told her, like I don't
know anyone and I have, I haveno idea then my mother she was I
(21:13):
mean in contact with she was,since she was teaching in school
.
She got connected and found mywife yeah and yeah that's.
She showed her picture to me andtold me about their family and
yeah and yeah, and the one word,the word that I had to my
(21:34):
mother, it's like you know, I'llmake sure to keep her happy as
long as she is also, you know,part of our big family taking
care of you people.
ME (21:43):
Yeah.
BAKHTIAR (21:44):
And it happened Like we hit it very strong.
I have never heard of a lot ofpeople that they don't know each
other.
They got engaged and marriedfor 11 years than we are right
now.
You never really heard that.
I'm not saying that we don'tknow each other.
They got engaged and marriedfor 11 years than we are right
now.
You never really had that.
I'm not saying that we don'targue.
We have conflict of interestsometimes, of course.
Yeah, but even with thatconflict of interest, we come
(22:05):
together with the one shared andcommon goal to live together
and, you know, proceed with thegood days we had and the hard
days we have right now.
There is turbulence all thetime there.
(22:29):
Yeah, it's right now.
I feel I'm one of the luckiesthaving her.
Yeah, I have beautiful,beautiful kids, yeah, and I
think, um, they will one day beserving this nation, in this
country, in the interest of this, this country, and I'm proud of
them.
They are my daughter.
She is a proud girl, I love her.
(22:52):
And my son he's a veryintelligent and talented boy.
ME (22:56):
I can see that.
That's awesome man, and I lovethat you have those goals set
that they're going to be givingback to this place too as well,
right, I mean, I don't feelbeing strange to this community,
to this environment to thiscountry.
BAKHTIAR (23:15):
I do understand politics but you know it really
matters in terms of how I getback from people around me.
I've never been discriminated.
As I said, there are here andthere, but I know how to defend
myself.
But overall, I mean, if I'mhere, this nation deserves, you
(23:35):
know, serving back Because theylive here.
I'll be a US citizen in acouple of months and I mean the
oath we take.
It's going to be the oath, yeah.
ME (23:48):
That's amazing Random question.
So you got married five yearsago 11 years.
BAKHTIAR (23:54):
11 years ago.
ME (23:55):
Um, before that, what is the dating scene look like for you?
You're so crazy busy withschool, travel and everything.
How like, how did that work foryou at the time?
BAKHTIAR (24:04):
so I mean one thing that's very uh kind of um, I
mean dating people before youwere married it's it's kind of I
mean, people do it and I neverhad a chance.
I mean, there are two thingsmaybe I was very, you know, not
charming guy.
(24:24):
No one was interested in me.
Or maybe I didn't have the thetime one thing that I realized
that you should have the skillto connect with people and
communicate.
I don't know, maybe I didn'thave the skill to.
You know, I think I still likea shy guy when it comes to I'm
(24:46):
very social, but I think I'mstill a shy guy when it comes to
connecting with ladies yeah, Imean so I think that was the
reason.
With no chance, but once I'mconnected to people, like you
know, they found, they will find.
Like you, I'm a very socializedguy, uh, yeah first
interactions are kind of toughfor people, yeah, yeah um, so
(25:10):
that's good to hear.
ME (25:12):
I want to go to.
We got fatherhood traveling.
This is going to be a good one.
I travel a lot.
I've been traveling my wholelife.
You have also been travelingyour whole life.
How many different countrieshave you been to?
BAKHTIAR (25:26):
I think I've been to all four continents.
All of them I've been to.
So I was immigrant to Pakistan,where I spent nine years.
Then I had the opportunity totravel twice to Pakistan in 2016
.
I've been to India, I've beento Turkey.
(25:47):
I've been to Austria, toGermany, to Czech, to Slovak.
I've been to Australia lastyear twice.
Yeah, that's pretty much.
I've visited these countries inthe United States.
He, I didn't say you guys know,the first time I flew in a
(26:11):
airplane airplane was in 2010really while I was heading to
united states and I was superexcited to be on an airplane I
couldn't even imagine that manfor the first time ever, going
over there yeah uh, from like tvand movies and everything and
what you hear about the unitedstates.
ME (26:33):
Did it live up to that when you got here?
BAKHTIAR (26:36):
well in.
In terms of, in terms of theenvironment, I would say, uh,
yes, that's what you see andwhat, what you, what you expect
and what you see.
But there are differentperspectives.
In terms of when you were firstlanding into a country and you
see people and the environment,the culture might look a little
(26:59):
bit different than the one youlive in.
I mean, for me it wasn'tdifferent because I lived my
life while I was a child inRussia, so it wasn't very
different in terms of thetraditions and culture and
religion wasn't very differentin terms of the traditions and
culture and religion.
But to a lot of my colleagueswho traveled with me at the time
it was very different.
(27:20):
Yeah, true, and this is one ofthe one of the challenges I
think the Afghan community orthe Islam Islamic traditional
communities have in here in theUnited States that prevents them
from being connected to, toother people.
You know, they think they aretreated differently, while I
(27:41):
think they are not.
Yeah, but they should.
They should break, break thoseboundaries and start connecting
with, with the real world.
Yeah, you know, if you look atevery community here in in the
US, for instance, the Afghancommunity, indian communities,
ukrainians, or you look atothers, they're all kind of
(28:04):
strictly within the boundariesof their own communities.
They less communicate withother people, so that even
causes kind of a misperceptionand understanding that you know,
maybe these immigrants are kindof wild, they are not used to
our traditions and environmentand our communities.
(28:27):
While I think that there shouldbe an interaction, you know,
know, in terms of those who wereemigrated to this country 100
years ago, yeah, or maybe I callit the Americans.
Yeah, they should get in touchwith these people, learn from
them, or let the immigrantslearn from the culture, from the
(28:53):
society, from the food and theway they look at the world.
I mean, that's important.
ME (28:58):
Why do you think they're so unwilling to want to learn and
adapt?
BAKHTIAR (29:03):
I think the first thing that I see myself as an
immigrant is that I thinksometimes that if I connect with
people here other than our owncommunities, our acceptance rate
might be very low.
And you know, that's something,and I think right now, while I
(29:27):
speak to you, my language mightbe as broken as you can think of
.
And the second thing I see isthe language barrier.
So when they communicate, theythink I can't talk, you know.
But what?
One thing that I realize isthat as long as you can carry
(29:49):
few words to tell someonesomething, and if they are
interested, they will listen toyou.
Never mind they will, they willconnect with you regardless of
your language capabilities.
Yes, but yeah, these are the twothings that I think are
currently preventing most of thecommunities that maybe if I
(30:10):
connect with an american whileI'm an immigrant, they will see
me differently because of my.
That's what we define beforeconnecting.
You know, what I would say isthat every community you know,
I'm not saying about the Afghancommunity every community should
, you know, start engaging.
(30:31):
I've never seen there might besome people that they are not
interesting to hear about us,yeah, but most of them will, you
know, and particularly if youare well educated, you know your
boundaries, you know we should,we should yeah, no, absolutely.
ME (30:50):
When I was a kid, I there was a huge language barrier when
I went to portugal every summer.
Right when we came back to theus, my dad never spoke it to us
so we never, you know, kept it,uh, but when we went there, even
though we'd speak four or fivewords to someone, they still
were so happy that we were there, you know, like, because we
only got to visit once everyyear or whatever, so even if we
(31:12):
could barely understand eachother, it was enough to like,
feel at home, you know and and Ithink, uh, there could be like,
maybe, programs like whenpeople come over, like like,
because I see a lot of thingwhen it comes to immigration
where nobody can name thefounding fathers and all that
stuff, like, right, you shouldbe able to like pass a test or
(31:32):
something um.
BAKHTIAR (31:34):
But I do think there should be more like integration
of culture and I see that thereare a lot of programs run by the
immigrant-based organizationshere in the US, particularly, I
think there is one IRC,international Rescue Committee.
What they do, I mean, with allthe pros they have providing
(31:57):
help for resettlement, theydon't have such programs.
Where they can, you know,solely think of a clear
integration within the uscommunity.
And that's what I see is likeif we are heading to college,
right, so you will see two,three afghans sitting together
and away from the others, youknow, and what I see, like tell
(32:21):
them like you go to school oryou are connected somewhere.
You know you are in a coffeeshop, talk to people yeah you
know, let them know about you.
Uh, talk to them, you know, letthem know that they.
One thing that I know like theUnited States, immigrants are
the sole portion of the UnitedStates right now, regardless of
(32:43):
the politics will ignore it orwill accept it.
The people they have to cometogether and do things together.
Absolutely, they shouldintegrate.
And, paul, I mean in terms ofthese nonprofit organizations
they should integrate.
And nepal, I mean in terms ofthese non-profit organizations.
They should also have someprograms where it starts very
small, like if, if I was leadingany of those organizations, I
(33:04):
will, it would have been veryimportant for the state as well.
I will just make uh, what theydo right now is that, you know,
know, for Afghans, they make aceremony or a festival where all
Afghans come together.
Yeah, yeah, like, make afestival.
They don't have that.
Make a festival where Americanswho lived here will come
(33:26):
together with immigrants and letthem talk about their self, you
know.
Let them engage, let them sharetheir ideas.
You know.
Know neighbors to neighbor.
That will give them moreunderstanding of these
immigrants.
Should you be scared of them inthe coming 20 years?
Should you be scared of theirkids in coming 10 years?
You know, I've seen people.
(33:47):
They live in our neighborhoodand they don't know me right,
yeah.
I have one neighbor who havebeen to Afghanistan.
He was in Kandahar, yeah, andhe would say like in pashto to
me, like hey, sangay, how areyou doing?
and stuff and he's connectedbecause he has an understanding
of an afghan who he lived withback in afghanistan and he knows
(34:09):
that these people they are,that you can trust them and you
can live your life, you canintegrate, you can communicate,
but those they don't know theymight be scared of.
Like, okay, even if I sit in anuber, if I see this guy having
a beard and a little bitbrownish color, yeah, like,
let's not talk to him I don'tknow my whole life.
ME (34:30):
All I want to do is just get to know people and understand
people.
So, and then there's also thatcommonality that I was in
Afghanistan too.
So, since we're like on thatsubject, I remember we were
walking here and we brought upthe question about you're asking
me, if you want to ask it again, why the Americans are dealing
(34:53):
with the PTSD and the depressionthe way that they do, when
somebody like yourself was kindof brought up in it and you know
you seem to be doing very soundmentally.
You know what I mean To anextent, to an extent, yeah, yeah
.
So what was the question exactly?
So my was that you told meabout your story that you have
(35:15):
been once you were in after uhbeing in afghanistan like you've
been to through a trauma anddepression and uh, and then I
ask you the question that whatis it that makes you as such,
because you spend like one year
, but as I told you me I spent.
BAKHTIAR (35:37):
I'm 38 and I think the day I born there were rockets
coming.
Yeah, all over the hospital yeah, you know and even with that,
you know we I'd also lived mylife in military camps back in
afghanistan where there were,you know, suicide attacks and
and shooting, and you know thebombings and everything, and
(35:58):
even we were higher targets, youknow, because you would just
walk home and if they realizedthey would kill us right away
but there was not thatdepression exists at the time,
and I mean you don't have timeto be depressed when your life
is on the line at all times.
so my was like why are you?
(36:20):
And, as I told you, I've seen alot of documentaries and stuff
where the US military and armyforces, they were badly
depressed while being in c ombatzones in Iraq or Afghanistan,
while being in combat zones inIraq or Afghanistan, and I said
like is there any way we, asAfghans who lived their whole
life in combat zone, would beable to help RJ and such as you?
ME (36:53):
I mean, I'm not sure if it's something that can be taught to
fix, because it's kind of justhow I like repeating what I say.
I think it's just kind of howwe were raised, like the way we
were brought up, right.
Like this is not a desert.
This has you know electricity.
This has paved roads.
This has anything we want is atour fingertips.
Right.
It's like so we're so babied wehave everything.
(37:14):
You sign up to go do something.
You don't know exactly what.
That is right.
Like we don't have to wake upto rockets every day.
So it's not like ingrained inus to be afraid of things like
that.
So when you go out there afterthis life, you know whether it's
a good life or a bad life thatyou lived before you go off and
deploy.
It's still not the life you'reabout to live.
(37:40):
It's so vastly different thananything you've ever experienced
, but for you, that's all youexperience.
Yeah, so I think it's justprogramming.
You know, uh, as a child, whileyour brain's developing,
they're the most important yearsof your life, of becoming who
you are as a person.
And, uh, if all of that isfilled with trauma, um, or or if
it's all filled with what it is, you know, negative, even if it
(38:01):
is super negative, but if it'sall you know, it's all you know.
So you're so very appreciative,like the fact that you left and
came over here.
You'll never have to deal withthat ever again.
Right, like that alone shouldkeep you from being depressed.
You know, and and I'm sure thatdoes in a way, right, it built
you for that, but I don't knowfor other people.
(38:21):
I know I know for me inparticular.
I'm very close to people.
I consider myself an empath.
My feelings I can't hide them,right, like if I'm sad, you're
going to see it on my face.
If I'm happy, you're going tosee it on my face.
That's just how I am.
I'm up front with who I am andmy feelings.
It was almost not having todeal with that anymore was a
(38:51):
good thing, but I feel like Ilost a certain family or a
special bond that I had thatI'll never get again and that
when I became a civilian and Iwent out into the world although
that was a traumatic time andexperience uh, although that was
(39:15):
a traumatic time and experienceuh, I'm more depressed that I
don't have those people to relyon, the people that I trust,
that have your back, no matterwhat.
That it doesn't matter.
If mortars are flying, uh, youknow, 20 feet from your, from
your tent or whatever, at leastyou're running out there with a
guy that you know will never doyou dirty.
He's always going to hold you,hold you down.
You know, have your back.
He's going to be there to youknow, uh, it's so lost in this
(39:38):
society out here, um, and andand that's that's kind of like a
big thing that that fucks withme.
Uh, I've always been ingrainedto deal with loss and trauma
Like my whole life has been likea crazy ride, so, like in my
head, that's normal stuff.
(39:59):
But for other people, if you'rejust thrown out there and you're
18 years old and all you knewyour whole life was working on a
farm and playing football,that's a big deal to watch.
Watch somebody bleed out or to,you know, kick somebody.
Make sure their eyeballs aren'tmoving so that way you know
they're not going to get up andkill you, like those are.
Those are.
Those are just different things.
(40:20):
We're not you.
You, you were probably used tosleeping in wherever you could.
You know what I mean.
Like, uh, we have beautifulbedrooms and air conditioners
and everything you know.
So it's like, once you flipthat switch, to be in that more
like primal state of mind.
I don't think it's not easy tolike turn that off.
BAKHTIAR (40:41):
I think that's how you define it.
You know, to an extent I agreewith you, but if you look at me,
I never been into any combatzone or I never been in army, I
never had an arm or any gun, butI did live right.
(41:02):
And the point is I spent all mylife studying, all my life
studying.
You know I had never beenengaged, but, yeah, one thing
that is that that I have seenwas that where I agree with you
is that, yeah, there wereexplosions, there were people
(41:23):
killed, that same thing that youhave seen on the news, and I
saw it maybe a little bit closersometime.
You know, but overall it's allour own mindset on how we can,
you know, train our mind tothink.
Take things simple, you know,and that is where it works, with
(41:47):
everything that's we call.
They call it a crisismanagement, and you can be
sitting in a nice garden, likeyou're sitting here, nice view,
old Sacramento, a town of 1800.
No one's bothering us, but youare still depressed for no
reason.
And it's what and how you areputting your mind.
(42:12):
If I tell you, when I left thecountry and I came to the United
States permanently, I wentthrough a lot of hard time and
depression, I don't know, whileI'm resisting, but I don't know
whether I'm good or not.
Either I am good or not,because it's not only those
bombs.
There is another sort of lifethat you have to fight for.
(42:36):
You have to find your socialposition again, that you lost
Education, people, life, respect, and now I'm an Uber or Lyft
driver.
So there is this big gap and Imean in terms of that depression
and anxiety and trauma.
(42:56):
You can they can't be differentthan each other.
A lot I know and like the wayright now I'm fighting, it's, I
would tell you, it's not likeonly me, but thousands of of
talars are fighting, yeah, thatdepression, and they are
fighting for their future herein the united states.
(43:17):
It's not less than being in acombat zone yeah, no, you know
you were a teacher.
You were, you have been teachingat the university.
No one gives you a shit rightnow being an Uber driver.
They see you as an illiterate,right, I used to work.
I had a very nice job.
I had a good business that Iwas running, so I studied a lot.
(43:38):
I put all the hard work and theresult would be being an Uber
and Lyft driver.
You know, I had a nice homewhere I was living the nice bed
that you defined home, where Iwas living the nice bed that you
defined.
Now I live in a small apartmentwhere, you know, all
cockroaches are on my head dayand night.
But I am fighting.
(43:59):
It's to me, to me.
Being in Afghanistan with thoserockets was a war zone, but
right now, dealing with all thisdepression is is is another, is
another war that I am fighting.
But I never surrender.
I'm strongly fighting back.
You know I was working as asoftware developer.
(44:21):
They laid me off.
One thing that I know for sureabout myself when, when
something goes down for me, Iwould, I would keep that smile.
Yeah, and I was.
I was fired once and the HRmanager came to me said I mean,
we fired those other guys andtheir color is yellow.
(44:41):
Shit, they, they, they barelybreathe.
Yeah, why you are smiling, whyyou keep bluffing?
And I said, like man, if youfired me, it doesn't mean that I
wouldn't have another job.
You know, I will try to comeback here and work with you
again and I have that confident.
Yeah, trust me, I was at home,spent two months, enjoyed my
(45:04):
life and come, came back and siton the same desk again.
That's the level of confidencewhere you can fight back with
the depression that you haveyeah, it's, you're so right,
you're so right it.
ME (45:16):
You have to actually go through those dark times and
pull yourself out of them, orelse the good things you get
don't really matter.
Yeah, you have to do that, um.
So I'm really glad you saidthat it is a war that you're
fighting as well.
So I think another thing iscombating the depression.
People go straight to alcoholand drugs.
BAKHTIAR (45:37):
You know what I mean?
That's another depression.
ME (45:39):
Exactly, and so I think, is that a cultural difference, do
you think?
Do you think us like?
As Americans, we chase ourfeelings, our pain and
depression with drugs andalcohol.
Well, I think, because you'renot out of control right now, we
chase our, our feelings, ourpain and depression with with
drugs and alcohol.
Well, Well, I think you're notout of control right now, like
so what, what, what?
BAKHTIAR (45:55):
here is like.
There are two perspectives onthis.
One is the, the perspectivethat you know the business world
and Some people would tell youthat, you know, if you were
depressed, go take these taps,you know.
And the other would say like,go, you know, have a smoke oh
(46:16):
yeah, go, you know, try weed ormarijuana.
It's good for your depression.
That's one mindset I havestudied and I taught criminology
yes where it is, the study ofthe reason for people committing
a crime.
And there are, there are allthoughts that you know, if you
are on drugs, right, that drugpeople might think it's gonna
(46:40):
harm me only than no one else,or it will help me reduce my
depression or fight a reduce mydepression or fight a problem
that I have, which it is not,you know, that will feel.
You know, good, the firstcouple of times that you use it.
But if you are not using it thenyou will be depressed.
(47:01):
For instance, go to the, to tothe pharmacies, and you know
people they take thosedepression pills,
anti-depression pills, you knowover the counter and they just
use it.
That's normal life.
I've never, maybe throughout mylife, I have took maybe I took
(47:21):
twice the anti-depression tabs,yeah, and it was once here in
the United States where I gotdepressed and then I knew it
will not help me permanently,but temporarily it can help you.
But the other point is that youknow people believe in religion,
(47:42):
they have some faith and theygo and pray and then they come
back and they are relieved, theway they say like okay, yeah,
god says there are hard days,there are good days, you have to
do this and that, and they prayand they come stronger, right,
that is another way where you doit.
(48:03):
And the next way, like if wecompare it to our own cultures,
right, it's like people are intodrugs to treat depression.
I even know doctors.
They are psychiatrists, butthey are on drugs, and I'm
(48:24):
talking about my own country.
I've seen people they tell yougo, submit to God, pray, be with
yourself and your god.
And then there is another,another group.
They will tell you.
Like you know, beside whateveryou do, continuous exercise will
help you fight depression andand I think one of the ways I
(48:47):
was, I was I was able to findFight my, my war of depression.
Being in the United States.
Many immigrants will hide it,yeah, you know, but that's the
reality, yeah, and that was thatyou have to be at the gym, no
matter what, every day, everyday, two hours, one and a half
(49:12):
hour, just you know, play aroundwith all these needles.
It's actually really good, youknow, run and walk it, it keeps
you very stable than you know.
Being on on on drugs, we know,like you know, drugs.
ME (49:23):
How would that help you being uh, uh, using
antidepressant, antidepressantdrugs, and you, you'll be very
happy I've been off of all ofthose for a lot of years, uh,
mostly because I I dove intopsychedelics and mushroom
psilocybin stuff like that.
Uh, I'm, I'm into things alongthe lines of it comes from the
(49:46):
earth, then most likely it'sgood for us.
You know, like uh, there'sdifferent ways to look at that
to an extent, yeah um, but Iwould still rather go that route
than go into the pharmacy anyday of the week and I mean what
I, what I understand?
BAKHTIAR (50:00):
uh, like, whatever that exists in the nature there
is.
There are things good, thereare things bad.
You know, let me tell you of ofthe explosives, right, it's bad
because you can make of it abomb and kill someone.
It's good where you can use itfor good purpose, like the
(50:22):
nuclear energy, and stuff youknow.
So everyone should look at itfrom the perspective.
From that perspective, likewe'd say, okay, for instance,
psyched Alex, I've seen have youseen, a documentary on Netflix
called Wild, wild Country?
ME (50:42):
Yes, of course.
BAKHTIAR (50:46):
You know, they were using that you know, and mixing
it with the think of religionand Buddhist thoughts and
whatever.
And then they will say, likeyou know, we treat people that
they are depressed, and have youseen how they were left again
in a very bad situation.
It all depends from which angleyou are using this environment
(51:10):
and whatever is in it,regardless of your faith,
regardless of your religion.
What I think is that God gavehumans that brain and the
independence to think aboutstuff.
I have seen many people when itcomes to religious beliefs.
(51:30):
They say there is a belief thatyou should believe.
Don't talk about it anymorebecause you know you are not
allowed.
But I say think as much as youcan, god.
That's why god brought you inhere to think, explore, have
things, enjoy them, but as longas you are not harming yourself.
ME (51:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, this is the most safest andmost least turbulent and the
most stable part of my liferight now, and I do attribute a
lot of that to not drinkinganymore.
That was a big one for me, butthat's my journey, though.
(52:10):
You know everybody.
I want everybody to justdrinking anymore.
That was a big one for me, butthat's my journey, though.
You know everybody.
I want everybody to just behappy.
You know, whatever makes youhappy, long as you're not
hurting anybody else, then toeach their own.
You know, we'll do a couplemore questions and we'll finish
off here in a little bit, do you?
We were talking about theintegration process of
immigrants in here.
How much do you think religionplays a part in the not wanting
(52:38):
to combine?
Maybe because different faithssometimes can conflict.
BAKHTIAR (52:41):
What are your thoughts on that?
That's a good question.
I mean, for some Muslims itmight be a barrier that prevents
, and I think the beauty of thiscountry is that, based on the
US Constitution, you have theright to religion and it didn't
(53:05):
define that if you are in thisterritory, then you should
follow this religion, didn'tdefine that you, if you are in
this territory, then you shouldfollow this religion, and that
what gives, I mean to me as amuslim, it's it's first thing is
that I have not been preventedso I can exercise my religion.
First, that that tells me a lotabout this society, in this
(53:26):
community, in this country, yeah, and the people.
And the second thing withregard to integration is the is
religion causing or not?
I would say, if muslims theyhave a good historical study,
yeah, then they would realizethat you know, the difference
(53:48):
between religions is somethingthat you can.
As our, our own, our ownreligion says that everyone has
the right to religion and theyhave the right to practice their
religion.
So if, if, if I, as a muslim,practice and someone else, as a
christian or jewish, practicetheir own religion, that should
(54:10):
not bother me, and that's whatmy, my religion taught me.
The real religion, the realreligion.
I'm not talking about theradical religion interpretation
that wants me to hate a Judas ora Christian or a Buddhist.
You know, if you look at itfrom the historic perspective,
you know Muslims.
(54:30):
They used to live shoulder toshoulder in one community with
Christians, with Jews, in aplace where it's been a war zone
for 70 years I'm talking aboutJerusalem.
You know they used to livetogether, they shared the
(54:51):
finances, they do businesstogether and look at it from
different perspectives.
So there are two things ForMuslims they should understand
if they don't, that you knowthat's what the real Islam is.
And for those, for non-Muslims,that we are in their country,
(55:14):
they should also understand that.
Okay, yeah, for most of them Ithink it is, but for some of
them that might be they might beconsidering them that we are
practicing a religion which is aradical religion.
One thing that I see the beautyof Muslims in the United States
is that most of Muslims in theUnited States they are the real
(55:40):
and true Muslims.
They are, I mean, I wouldn'tsay 100%, but 99% of them are
not radical Muslims.
ME (55:50):
I agree with that.
BAKHTIAR (55:51):
Have you been to Texas and there is a guy named Norman
Ali Khan.
This guy, he teaches you andgives you a perspective of
beauty of the religion of Islam.
Right, even like that is a hottopic today in Afghanistan, even
like that is a hot topic todayin Afghanistan that you know,
(56:13):
taliban wants women to becovered fully when they go out.
And I mean this guy will comeand teach you the way that, if
in some cases, even you don'tneed to, you know, cover your
hair, your face.
It all depends on that.
You have to look at theenvironment in the community,
(56:38):
for instance.
He says if you go to youroffice and all of a sudden you
see that covering your head,which most Muslims do, will
prevent you from employment, youknow, then don't wear it.
Then don't wear it.
Yeah, but the beauty I see here, like I go to college, I did
(57:00):
work.
You know my wife, she'sstudying at the university.
She would go with her headcovered.
You know she wears the way sheshould.
No one bothers and no onedisrespects her.
You know, and I think to anextent they are respected as
well, in a way that you know sheis a traditional woman yeah you
know they people, the momentthey, they, they, they get in
(57:24):
touch, they start to know alittle bit more about the
boundaries of, like you know,the way you talk to someone else
you cannot talk to.
You wouldn't talk to a Muslimgirl you meet.
You know she's covered up in away.
So I think that's the beautyand I think both sides like I'm
talking about Muslims theyshould integrate into other
(57:45):
communities.
One is it depends, relates to,to every human.
Like you know, if I want tofollow another religion, right,
there are some strict boundariesthat I wouldn't talk about it
like it's.
That's the interpretation.
People say like in islam, youcannot convert into other
religion or you I wouldn't talkabout those things because
(58:08):
that's most complicated andphilosophical stuff that will
take a lot of time it's notneeded like yeah, but overall I
would say like, let's integrate,let's know each other.
End of the day, there is onereligion and we call it the
religion of god and that ends tohumanity.
Right, and we, regardless ofour religion, faith, believe we
(58:31):
should treat each other firstthing, first, as a human.
Yes, it doesn't matter what isyour color, what is your
religion, what do you believe in?
Right, yeah, you should.
We should treat each other as ahuman.
I feel very sorry for the worldtoday.
(58:51):
If, I mean, it's beenthroughout the history, you know
they fight for the name ofreligion they fought, fight for,
for economy or whatever.
But if, if people think ofstuff, the way that we are all
human and we have human rightsand we should treat each other
(59:13):
with humanity, I think no onewill will stand up and kill
another human.
I think, and I believe thecreator of this, this planet, in
this world yeah, right, putenough resources in this planet.
You know that we can foreveryone, but it's we humans
(59:35):
that we are unjust.
You know I'm not saying that.
You know there shouldn't be acapitalist world, there
shouldn't be a liberal market.
What I understand is that thereshould be an equal distribution
of wealth for hard work andtalent and intelligence of every
human, absolutely you know,which I think is not.
(59:57):
We are heading somewhere to getsomeone's wealth and believing
that, you know, if I take yourwealth, there is, you know,
wealth for me and a prosperouslife, which I don't think.
So that is the case.
Yeah, I don't think so either.
ME (01:00:14):
Uh-huh, dang it.
Sorry, go ahead, get all thisstuff out, like, see, okay, I'm
(01:00:35):
really glad we talked about allof that.
Honestly, I think, um, that'swhat I was gonna say.
So, when you talk about humans,the human experience, that's
what we are right, it doesn'tmatter.
That's how I grew up.
For whatever reason, no matterwhat, I couldn't, I cannot see,
like, obviously we're differentskin colors, but that's never
mattered to me my entire life.
I grew up around nothing butblack people, mex people.
(01:00:58):
I'm not.
I'm like Portuguese, where Ilived over in Modesto, like I
was like a white boy there,right, just because the way I
grew up.
So I never have been able tosee the difference in people
like, like in the best waypossible.
It's like I'm colorblind andthat's kind of why, like I
started doing this, I didn'trealize how much, all over that
(01:01:19):
we're so quick to judge or we'reso quick to discriminate, you
know, and sometimes it's noteven on purpose, it's just like
in you, it's just the way we'rebuilt, um, so I think that I
know in our country we have.
BAKHTIAR (01:01:31):
We have a small country of 30 million people.
So we also have differenttribes and cultures and stuff.
And there comes a little bit ofdiscrimination in there as well.
So what I understand is thatpeople do not play any role in
(01:01:52):
discriminating people.
Any role in discriminatingpeople.
They it's kind of politicsplays a key role in shaping that
.
You know, hate anddiscrimination.
That is that's what Iunderstood.
Like you know, and it's notthat you know, our country maybe
(01:02:13):
has 15% illiterate populationand 30 or 65 or 70% illiterate
population, but overall when yousee the illiterate population,
they live without anydiscrimination.
You know they live alongsideeach other but they educate they
(01:02:34):
, they know politics and thenthey come together, sit with
what went with a group of peoplewhose political interest
defines to be to discriminate,so they benefit from I think I
think with higher education andsome type of classism, yeah, and
true, true and uh, you know,whether you you want it or not,
(01:02:58):
like who you're with around atall times.
ME (01:03:01):
I think that, in general, whoever is close to you, that
you surround yourself with, it'simportant that those people are
good people or want what's bestfor you, or have goals and are
heading in the right direction,because you're just like a
little bit of everyone aroundyou.
Yeah, so, um, I think whenyou're in that field of academia
, of very higher end sort ofsociety, minds there comes with
(01:03:24):
what you say like so there isone thing high academia they are
, to me, complete people.
BAKHTIAR (01:03:32):
You know there is a circle for education and being
academic and scholar and and Idon't, they are good human.
If you are not going throughthat circle right or completing
the circle, and you miss any dotor a couple of dots in that
circle, then the circle is notcomplete.
That's where this stuff comes.
(01:03:55):
You know when we are talkingabout.
Like you know, I have I spentmy life being an academic and
around people who were at theuniversity, might the teachers
and students.
Yeah, what I found, like peoplewho really go around the circle
and complete the circle.
They understand and they neverfall into the hands of of of
(01:04:18):
politics, where the politicsseems to be benefiting from,
from discrimination yes, youknow, that makes perfect sense
it really, it really does.
ME (01:04:28):
Um, I am going to go into.
We're over here, we're gettingclose to the end, but, uh, I've
learned about your past, alittle bit about your present.
Um, what are your future plans?
I know you're driving lyft oruber right now and good on you
for having this huge educationalbackground and not being too
good to do something like that.
(01:04:49):
So good on you.
But, um, what are your futureplans for you, your wife, your
kids?
Uh, with business?
Um, I'd like to know what yougot going ahead of you.
BAKHTIAR (01:04:58):
So right now I only have one goal.
I mean, I wouldn't call it agoal but a plan for the time
being.
ME (01:05:08):
Yeah.
BAKHTIAR (01:05:09):
And the plan is to set up to study, to complete my
associate with green vehicletechnology and start a small
business and get it go,stabilize the business.
And for my wife she willcomplete her education.
And you know, my wife and I wehave a company called Algo
(01:05:35):
Software.
We do software development.
We did train a lot of people onsoftwares for the last three
years and the goal of theirsetting up the company was, I
think, somewhere around one ofthese buildings, nice, of these
buildings there.
We I had my own office and butwe had to shut it down for
(01:05:58):
because of the economicturbulence but the goal is that
my wife will go complete hereducation and support algo soft
in the future amazing and yeah,I will, and the end goal will be
I'll do my PhD and the end goalwill be I'll do my PhD and go
and teach again.
And yeah, I mean it never endsfor me that I will, only because
(01:06:26):
I live in the United States.
The end of the day, it will beonly United States.
I still have the intention toserve Afghanistan.
I'm waiting for the timewhenever it's good, so I will
keep myself updated.
I follow the news.
I keep myself, unfortunately,good or bad.
(01:06:49):
I studied politics.
That's where I never I wouldn'tleave it.
So that's pretty much the planand the goal we have with my
kids.
There is different perspectiveof other people that I see, so
(01:07:09):
they educate their, their kids,only here, because they go to
school, they get a job or run abusiness.
But you know, I want my kids tobe culturally connected with
their home country as well, sothey know the values of those
people and and and and and thecountry as well.
(01:07:29):
So you never know if there isneed tomorrow or one day when
they grow up and they have toserve back the people in the
nation where they were oncebelonged to.
That's really so, that's thegoal.
So that's one of the reasons Ikeep my kids involved with the
(01:07:51):
Afghan community, so they learnfrom each other.
And, yeah, that's importantwith the afghan community.
So they learn from each otherand, yeah, that's so they grow,
uh, as a afghan american whoknows both values at the same
time that's important, and thenespecially showing them, you
know uh, it gives youappreciation for what you have
here, you know.
ME (01:08:09):
So I do think that's very important.
Um, I do.
You have.
Oh, I was just gonna say onething.
Uh, we were talking aboutnon-profit and stuff.
So that's what I'm doing withthis, like it's just an llc
right now.
The podcast.
I'm traveling, interviewingpeople.
Uh, the money stuff will comewhen it.
When it comes, you know, andI'm not worried about that at
all, but everything that hascome is just getting reinvested
(01:08:32):
into this anyways, so it reallydoesn't matter too much.
But once it I do get everythingset up, uh, for the non-profit,
I'm gonna be doing, um, shit.
Well, basically all the moneythat people can donate to this
is going to be helping thepeople that I talk to on the
podcast.
So you know you're doing allright, but you know, let's just
(01:08:54):
say you were somebody that wasin a much worse position.
Down on their luck, I'm goingto be able to help that person
get on their feet.
Maybe that's go to rehab, maybeit's a plane ticket home, see
their kid, like whatever.
Maybe that's kind of a thing Iwant to do with this as well, as
I told you about the therapyranch and everything.
So I'm fully engulfed in thisright now and all that is is
(01:09:17):
just trying to help people.
So I appreciate that, with allyou have going on, you still
have thoughts on wanting to giveback.
You know whether that's throughyour kids and you know that.
I think that's very important.
So, yeah, man, I think I thinkwe probably we did it.
I think we did a really goodone man.
I think I think we probably wedid it.
I think we did a really goodone man.
I just want to say thank you somuch.
BAKHTIAR (01:09:37):
My pleasure, my pleasure.
ME (01:09:39):
Seriously.
BAKHTIAR (01:09:40):
I would say to you, were you know viewers or whoever
is watching, I don't know.
Forgive me if I miss some ofthe words with the broken
English that I have.
It was pleasure talking to you,RJ.
ME (01:09:56):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
We're going to stay in contact.
BAKHTIAR (01:10:00):
And we're going to link up again.
I'm going to see where you'redoing, how you're doing All that
stuff, man, thanks again.
ME (01:10:05):
Thank you everybody for watching Until the next one.
Bye Peace, yeah, buddy.
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